1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy, you've 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: seen plenty of tarot decks. I'm sure, I sure have. 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: Most people probably have these days. They're super uniform in 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: terms of what they contain, although the designs of decks 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: very greatly. Uh. There are normally four suits, which can 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: vary particularly regionally, but the ones that you commonly see 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: in North America are cups, coins, swords, and wands or staves. 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: Each of those suits has fourteen cards, so the pip 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: cards that number one to ten and then a King, Queen, Knight, 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: and Jack. Those suit cards make up what's called the 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: minor arcana, and then there are another twenty two cards 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: that make up what's called the major arcanum. And these 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: are the trump cards, so they include things like the Lovers, 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: the Sun, the Moon, the hanged Man, and death plus 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: the fool. Tarot cards show up all over the place 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: in entertainment, even if you've never seen a deck personally, 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: we have all seen that very dramatic moment on TV 20 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: or in a film when a person draws the death 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: card and there's that scary music sting. But if that 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: character knew the history of tarot cards, they probably wouldn't 23 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: be too worried about it, even if they just know 24 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: how that card is often interpreted today. Right, Yeah, we'll 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 1: get to that. Yeah. So that's what we're talking about 26 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: today is kind of a brief overview of tarot cards. 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: And I do want to level set you will not 28 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: walk away from this episode going I could do a reading, Um, 29 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: that's not this at all. I mentioned that I was 30 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: doing this to a friend and they were like, oh, 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: are you gonna explain? I was like, I would have 32 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: to have way, way more knowledge of that one to 33 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: do it anyway and to know, um no. But we're 34 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: going to talk about how they came to be used 35 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: as a divination tool, and a are things, but really 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: the start is pretty pretty benign and humble. Yep, yep. So, 37 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: as Holly just alluded to, if you say the word 38 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: tarot today, people usually think of mysticism and the occult, 39 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: but really this just started out as a card game. 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: There was no divination or meditative aspect to these cards use, 41 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: and games played with cards are believed to have originated 42 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: in China. There are references to games with suited cards 43 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: going all the way back to the ninth century in 44 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: Chinese texts, and we also know that card games were 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: played in the mam Look Sultanate of Egypt by the 46 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: thirteenth century. Their theories about whether or not cards traveled 47 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 1: from China or whether different cultures were developing these ideas, 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: but there are examples of these mem Look cards that 49 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: feature suits that are very familiar cups, coins, swords, and sticks. 50 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: From Egypt, card games traveled into Europe and we see 51 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: mentions of them starting in Italy and thirteen seventy Venice, 52 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: because of its status as a port city, was probably 53 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: the point of entry, and then from there it seems 54 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: like cards, which were very easily transported because of their 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: small size, spread pretty quickly. In thirteen seventy seven, a 56 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: game called Lutas Cartarum was invented by a German monk, 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: and almost as quickly as card games were introduced into Europe, 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: there was some suspicion about them. There are sermons that 59 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: you can find historically and ordinances forbidding card playing and 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: suggesting that it might lead to bad behavior. In some cases. 61 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: These are the things you would here, and even more 62 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: modern things about the vices of cards and the dangers 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: of being a card player. Those all developed right alongside 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: the spread of the games, so none of that is new. 65 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: One Paris decree issued on January stated that working people 66 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: could not play tennis, bowl, play dice, play cards, or 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: play nine pins on a workday had to wait for 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: a holiday. But while the working man may have been 69 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: discouraged from playing cards, the wealthy were not only playing cards, 70 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: but they were also commissioning artists to make really beautiful 71 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: hand painted decks. In thirty two, Charles Poupar, who managed 72 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: the treasury for King Charles the sixth of France, is 73 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: said to have commissioned three guilt decks from painter jacquesmin 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: Green Guneus On behalf of the king. Earliest examples of 75 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: cards that look like what we might recognize as taro 76 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: or from Italy in the early half of the fifteenth century, 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: and these were primarily in Venice, Florence, Milan and Urbino. 78 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: So these seem to have been gaming decks that were 79 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: used in the Italian court and the houses of nobility, 80 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: and the reasons that these cards would have been a 81 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: pastime for nobles more so than anyone else. Was that 82 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: they were really expensive. The cards were all being hand painted. Initially, yeah, 83 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: those ones in France that were forbidden for common working 84 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: men to play with were like the more mass produced 85 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: when one, but the ones that start to look like tarot. 86 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: Really we're all very beautiful. Um and it sounds very 87 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: much too like a pack of modern playing cards. So again, 88 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: there were four suits, each with nu miracle cards, ace 89 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: to tend so cups, coins, batons, and swords. Batons you'll 90 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: sometimes see again as wands or staves. And then it 91 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: had the face cards Jack, Night, Queen, and King. And 92 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: in addition to this list, which is really close to 93 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: what you're probably very familiar with, there was also a 94 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: set of trump cards sometimes called Tarokei, depicting various figures 95 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: as well as a fool card. Although Italian decks are 96 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: the oldest examples that we have of these cards, there 97 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: were other and maybe older kinds of trump cards that 98 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: were being developed in Europe as well as early as 99 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: the fourteen twenties. A German card game called Carnival featured 100 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: these sorts of trump cards, and while there are some 101 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: similarities in Carnival and Taro in the game form, including 102 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: Carnival also being a trick taking game game. These are 103 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: believed to have developed independently. So going back to the 104 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: cards in Italy in the fourteen hundreds, the decks included 105 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: forty numerical suit cards, sixteen face cards, so those are 106 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: the court cards, twenty one trump cards and the fool. 107 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: As I said, a total of seventy eight, which is 108 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: the number you would have in a deck today. The 109 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: trumps were numbered with Roman numerals, and they included a 110 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: hierarchy of figures, not the same figures you would see today, 111 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: So like the Pope, the Emperor, the Son, and Death 112 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: were in there, but not all of the same lineups 113 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: that we would normally see in a modern deck. The 114 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: inclusion of the fool and this set of trump cards 115 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: is what sets these decks apart from regular playing cards 116 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: sets of the time and establishes the game of the 117 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: time that we would call tarot. Both the decks and 118 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: the games that they were used for grew in number 119 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: and they diversified pretty rapidly. There are examples of decks 120 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: that involved different numbers of cards, different breakdowns between the 121 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: numbered cards and the trump cards, and then different orderings 122 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: of the cards. The figures represented on the trump cards 123 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: were not consistent from deck to deck, and there were 124 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: different artistic styles and themes that the artists were using. 125 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: These were, as Tracy alluded to, a moment ago, primarily 126 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: games known as trick taking games, So that meant that 127 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: in each round of play or trick, the result was 128 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: that one of the players would win or take that trick. 129 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: We still have card games that are trick taking games today. Obviously, 130 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: some of the games that originated with these fifteen century 131 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: tarot decks are in fact still played today with a 132 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: deck that is basically a tarot deck, although not again 133 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: in the way that we would think of it in 134 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: associations with the occult or fortune telling. There are a 135 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: number of decks that were made in the fourteen hundreds 136 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: in Italy that are sometimes referred to collectively as the 137 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: Visconti Sforza decks. These decks are said to be the 138 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: work of court painter Benafaccio Bembo. The first of these 139 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: decks is a deck made or Philippo Maria Visconti that 140 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: was the Duke of Milan. Sixty nine of the decks 141 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: cards remain, and they are in the Biniki Rare book 142 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: in Manuscript Library at Yale. A deck made for Francesco Sforza, 143 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: who was a mercenary who married Philippo Visconti's only daughter, 144 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: is dated to sometimes shortly after fourteen fifty. This was 145 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: probably to mark the marriage. The deck is known as 146 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: the Visconti Sforza Deck. There are seventy one surviving cards, 147 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: although they are not all part of one collection. Thirty 148 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: five of them are in the collection of New York's 149 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: Morgan Library and Museum, and the other twenty three are 150 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: in Bergamo, Italy at the Academia Carrara, and thirteen of 151 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: them are privately held by the Colloni family. Another deck, 152 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: known as the Brambilla Deck, is part of a collection 153 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: in Milan, Italy, at the Pinotcoteca Debrera. This deck is 154 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: also believed to have originally been made for Duke Philippo 155 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: Maria Visconti. That name Brambilla is that of an owner 156 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: of the deck. Later. These decks changed hands a number 157 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: of times, and we're recognized pretty early as collector's items. 158 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: There are only two surviving trump cards from this deck, 159 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: but the rest of them that still exists are the 160 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: numbered suit cards. So these decks are kind of talked 161 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: about collectively, but they're not identical, and the Visconti Tarot 162 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: the court cards are more numerous than in later iterations. 163 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: There are also masculine and feminine versions of all the 164 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: court card ranks, and this also incorporates faith, hope, and 165 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: charity in the trumps. But the Visconti Sforza deck is different. 166 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: Although we don't know if this was an evolution of 167 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: the game or a refinement of the game, or just 168 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: a change made for some other reason like maybe, oh, 169 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: this person likes these things will add a card for that, 170 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: we do not know. Because this deck is so similar 171 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: to a tarot deck that you might see today versus 172 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: the Visconti deck that preceded it, The Visconti Sforza deck 173 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: is sometimes called the oldest known tarot deck. The hierarchy 174 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: of cards and the Visconti Sforza deck is as followers. 175 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: This goes from the highest to the lowest rank world Angels, Sun, Moon, Star, Temperance, Death, Trader, 176 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: old Man, Wheel of Fortune, Fortitude, Chariot, Justice, Love, Pope, Emperor, Popes, Empress, 177 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: Mountebank and finally the full yes. Uh. The popes would 178 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: eventually evolve into high priestess like you could see where 179 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: these weren't all as uniform, and they slowly become the 180 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: things we're familiar with now. Um, that other deck, the 181 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: Brambia deck, is closer to this one, I believe. And 182 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: then there's another deck which was likely designed in Italy 183 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: and then made its way to France and became known 184 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: as a French deck, and that's the Tarot de Marseilles. 185 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: This deck was based on woodblock prints of the fifteenth 186 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: century and its design actually continues to be used today. 187 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: This deck, as the Italian ones we've been discussing, was 188 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: also a true gaming deck, with none of the association 189 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: with mysticism that would come later. And before we get 190 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: into that mysticism which is coming, we'll take a break 191 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: for a quick word for some sponsors. In the eighteenth century, 192 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: a Frenchman named Antoine Cour provided the pivotal moment in 193 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: Taro's historical identity. Court de Cheblin was born on January 194 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: seventy five in Name, France, and he became a French 195 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: Reformed Church pastor. He was a Protestant propagandist, a scholar, 196 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: and a supporter of the North American colonies in their 197 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: quest for independence from Great Britain. But in terms of 198 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: today's subject, the germain part of his story is that 199 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: cour de Jeblin wrote a multi volume book project in 200 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: the years from seventeen seventy three to seventeen eighty four. 201 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: This project was called The Primeval World Analyzed and Compared 202 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: to the Modern World. He died in May of seventeen 203 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: eighty four with this work unfinished, but he had already 204 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: published a lot. His writing, as this title suggests, had 205 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: a pretty wide focus. He wrote about calendar history, grammar, 206 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:20,239 Speaker 1: the possibility of a universal language, and he also examined 207 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: mythology and in the volume of the work that was 208 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: published in seventeen eighty one, he wrote about Tarot. Cards 209 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: Court of Javelin linked Tarot to the Lost Book of Thoughts. 210 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: So Thoughts is an ancient Egyptian god linked to writing, wisdom, 211 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: and magic, and there have been multiple texts that have 212 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: been referred to with the name Book of Thought, in 213 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: each case suggesting that the information contained in them came 214 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: in some way from the god and the theory that 215 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: was put forth by Court of Jablin was that this book, 216 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: which contained information about ancient magic and wisdom, had been 217 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: entrusted to travelers rather than risk its destruction by enemies. 218 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: But Court of Jebalin leave that this book that had 219 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: made its way to Europe had been transformed into a 220 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: deck of tarot cards as a way to disguise it. 221 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: This is all totally supposition on his part. He had 222 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: no actual evidence to back it up. He also linked 223 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: the two trump cards of a tarot deck to the 224 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: twenty two letters of the Hebrew alphabet. He was suggesting 225 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: that there was this linkage among multiple cultures through this 226 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: lost book, and that the true meaning of the cards 227 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: was a secret that had been shared only with a 228 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: trusted few. And at the time these ideas completely fascinated people. 229 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: It was an utterly captivating concept. It's worth noting to 230 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: set the scene of why this was the case that 231 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: this was the same time when Franz Mesmer, covered in 232 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: an episode of the podcast by previous hosts Sara and Dablina, 233 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: was living in Paris and the idea of his so 234 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: called animal magnetism had enthralled Parisian high society. Spiritualism was 235 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,239 Speaker 1: having its first big aave of popularity as people grappled 236 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: with the new developments in the scientific world and how 237 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: those developments sometimes challenged long held religious and spiritual beliefs. 238 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: So Court of Jabulan's assertions about a deeper meaning to 239 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: a deck that people had been using to simply play 240 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: games with, We're completely enthralling. There was this certain romanticism 241 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: about the idea that they had been holding in their 242 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: hands images that were linked with ancient magic without ever 243 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: having realized it. I feel like someone making similar assertions 244 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: today would get a similarly captivated response. Yes, fortune tellers 245 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: worse in some cases, using decks of cards already as 246 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: tools of their work. Um, this was already being used 247 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: at this time in Europe. But this seems to have 248 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: been similar to the way tea leaves might have been interpreted. 249 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: Nobody really thought that tea itself was mystical. Similarly, it 250 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: wasn't so much about the cards themselves prior to Court 251 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: to Jablon's writing, was more about the person doing the interpreting. Yeah, 252 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: they did not think that there was hidden or magical 253 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: meaning in the cards. They were just kind of part 254 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: of a uh fortune teller's tools of how they could 255 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: help you perceive bigger ideas than you were accustomed to. 256 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: But the first person to gain widespread recognition for his 257 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: work with Tarot cards was Jean Baptiste Aliette, who went 258 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: by Etia, which is just his name backwards. Uh. More 259 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: than a decade before Court of jablin is writing about 260 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: Tarot cards, Aliette had published Etia, or A Way to 261 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: Entertain Yourself with a Deck of Cards in seventeen seventy. 262 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: But after Court of Jeblen's writing about the Tarot deck 263 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: was released, Elliott got to work on a new and 264 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: updated piece of writing of his own. Etia, or a 265 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: Way to Entertain Yourself with a Deck of Cards called 266 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: Tarot was released in seventeen eighty five, and in this 267 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: writing Elliott built on the ideas that court To Jeblin 268 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: had already introduced. The new writing claimed that the Tarot 269 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: was a book written by the God thought himself that 270 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: it was the oldest book in the world. Aliette also 271 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: shifted the order of the trump cards so that they 272 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: differed from court de Jaubulin's analysis. And to be clear, 273 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: this was all just like court to Jeblin's work conjecture. 274 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: But this book that Aliette wrote, is where a lot 275 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: of ideas about Tarot cards and their meaning which persists 276 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: today got their start. One of these was the idea 277 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: that a card that appears inverted has a shift in 278 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: its meaning. This is like a whole ball of wax 279 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: I dare not open. I know, if you talk to 280 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: people that actually like to use Tarot cards, some will 281 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: read inversions and some you can get a whole debate going. Um. 282 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: This is where the whole idea of that came up. 283 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: Another idea that he introduced was that the numbered cards 284 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: also called the pip cards we've been calling them Matt 285 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: also had meaning not just the trump cards of the 286 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: major arcana, and this was not the only instance of 287 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: the trump cards shifting position. Different writers and interpreters ever 288 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: since have debated the order of the cards and particularly 289 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: where the fool fits into the hierarchy. Remember too, that 290 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: the representations in every deck were not necessarily the same, 291 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: and that further opened up other interpretations. Yeah, I was 292 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly which deck it was, but there 293 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: was one that mentioned that there was a representation of 294 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: Nebuchadnezzar in it, and like how that changed the whole 295 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: thing and like basically, if an artist was doing their thematic, 296 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: it could significantly shift the way somebody who was used 297 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: to a different deck would look at that deck. Um 298 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: Etta also established first a society for discussion of Taro interpretation, 299 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: and then he opened a new school of magic. He 300 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: also developed a new deck of tarot cards that was 301 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: created not at all for gameplay, but expressly for use 302 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: in divination. The next figure who significantly influenced the development 303 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: of tarot cards is another Frenchman, la Fa Levi. Levi 304 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: was born in eighteen ten, so almost thirty years after 305 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: Court of Jebalance Tarot Analysis was published, and almost twenty 306 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: years after Elliott died. Levi was born Alphonse Louis Constant. 307 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: Levi's early vocation had actually been theology, although the week 308 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: before he was supposed to become a priest he abandoned 309 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: that path, but that background did inform his study and 310 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: exploration of spirituality and mysticism, though he didn't deeply embrace 311 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,479 Speaker 1: his work in the occult until he was almost forty, 312 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: which was when he changed his name. Levi took Court 313 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: of Jebulan's connection of the tarot trumps to the Hebrew alphabet, 314 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: and then further refined that sorting the letters and their 315 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: associated cards into three groups of association, they were the elements, 316 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: the planets, and the zodiac. And Levia is interesting because 317 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: he acknowledged that the tarot cards were useful as a 318 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: divination tool, but he was not especially fond of their 319 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: use in that regard. He thought that the far more 320 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: important role of tarot cards was as a tool of 321 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: spiritual philosophy, being away for students of esotericism and the 322 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: occult to gain insight in wisdom through meditation and psychological 323 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: self analysis. Levi also believed that the tarot had been 324 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: part of a greater knowledge which had been universal to 325 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: all of the ancient world's cultures. Swiss occultist Joseph paul 326 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: oswald Worth built on Levi's work when he wrote the 327 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: book Lettero does maaggier du moye That's the Terror of 328 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: the Magicians. That was an eighteen eighty nine. Worth introduced 329 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: a deck to accompany it called Arcandu tero Cabalastique, which 330 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: was Arcana of the Cabalistic Tarot. This was not a 331 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: complete deck, It was just the twenty two major arcanic cards, 332 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: and this is the first instance where the game card 333 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: designs are really reimagined with clear occult symbolism and included yeah. 334 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: Prior to that, they were still very much in the 335 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: old style where it looked a lot like the game. 336 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: Gerard and vincent Encos, known by the name Papus in 337 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: Esoteric circles, was a physician and occultist who founded the 338 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: Modern Martinist Order of Christian Mysticism. He studied the Kabbala, alchemy, magic, 339 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: and the occult taro in addition to medicine, and he 340 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: also connects to our recent episode on Madame Blavatsky. He 341 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: was a member of the French Theosophical Society, but didn't 342 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: really find that his interests and beliefs completely aligned with 343 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: the society's interest and approaching the occult through an Eastern lens. Papus, 344 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: who was born in eighteen sixty five, worked to further 345 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: the ideas that La Fas Levi had developed in his lifetime. 346 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: Like Levi, he sought to integrate a range of ideas 347 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: from many cultures into a unified spirituality around the tarot deck. 348 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: He developed a system that gay each trump card three 349 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: different meanings that you could use to interpret them. A 350 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: physical meaning, a magical astral meaning, and a divine meaning. 351 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: And he also expanded the number of ways the cards 352 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: could be laid out for divination. So a lot of 353 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: the layouts that you will see people using even today 354 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: are ones that he came up with. So coming up, 355 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: we're going to get into a couple of names that 356 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: might found pretty familiar to folks, as well as the 357 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: order that they belonged to. But first we're going to 358 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: take a quick sponsor break. So if a lot of 359 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: what we have talked about in those first two segments 360 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: so far sounds like it overlaps a lot, for example, 361 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: with Rosicrucianism, that is because it does uh. This so 362 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: called brotherhood, which is what it's usually called named for 363 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: the rose and cross design of its symbol, is organized 364 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: around the belief that esoteric wisdom possessed by people in 365 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: ancient times has been passed down through their order. This, 366 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: like the work of several of the people mentioned in 367 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: this episode, incorporates a number of occult ideas from different 368 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: religions and cultures into one sort of unified theory. In 369 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: the late eighteen eighties, the Rosicrucian society called the Hermetic 370 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: Order of the Golden Dawn was founded in England. This 371 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: group based its organizational structure and rituals on a group 372 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: of documents known as the Cipher Manuscripts. That's a set 373 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: of five dozen folios containing writings that were related to Gobala, 374 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: Christian gnosticism, Egyptian magic, and other belief systems. These folios 375 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: were dated eighteen o nine and we should mention that 376 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: these are controversial documents. Their legitimacy has been argued about 377 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: for decades in terms of how they're relevant to tarot. 378 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: They were deciphered by a man named William Wynn Westcott, 379 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: and that was a key development that led to the 380 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: formation of the Golden Dawn, and the practice of and 381 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: ideology of tarot evolved signific frequently. Within the Golden Dawn. 382 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: The deck was linked, for example, to the Judaic Cabala 383 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: Tree of life. It was also seen not just as 384 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: a way to peer into the future possibly but also 385 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: as a means to manipulate and control it. The tarot 386 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: also became linked to Celtic concepts and symbols through the 387 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 1: work of one of Golden Dawn's most famous members, William 388 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: Butler Yates. There were changes to the deck itself as 389 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: well to reflect changing ideas about its symbolism. Spearheaded largely 390 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: by a member of the Golden Dawn named Samuel Liddell 391 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: McGregor Mathers. Mathers was British, and that McGregor in his 392 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: name was something that he added. He claimed that he 393 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: had ancestors from the Scottish Highlands, but there are no 394 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: actual records to back that up. Mathers linked suits, wand's cups, 395 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: swords and pentacles to conceptual meanings. He related them to 396 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: the ideas of father, mother, the masculine and the feminine, 397 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: with wands and cups representing, respectively, kings and queen means, 398 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: and the swords and pentacles sort of a tear below 399 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: them as princes and princesses. He also associated them with fire, water, air, 400 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: and Earth's. Arguably the biggest contribution that Mather's made to 401 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: occultism and tarot was through his translation work. He spoke 402 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: several languages and translated a number of occult texts into English. 403 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: He was a practitioner of ceremonial magic and also a 404 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: teacher of Alistair Crowley. Although the two men would eventually 405 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: become enemies. Yeah we'll tell you why in a minute. 406 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: But that brings us to the work of Crowley as 407 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: well as another man, Arthur Edward Waite, and these two 408 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: names are fairly commonly known as part of modern occult history. Uh. 409 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: If you have brushed up against any of this subject matter, 410 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: you have seen those names. And both of them were 411 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: members of Golden Dawn. Wait was thirty four when he 412 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: joined the Brotherhood in one although initially he did not 413 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: stay with the group for very long. He quit but 414 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: joined once again five years later. Wait's name is well 415 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: known today because of the tarot deck that he designed, 416 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: known as the Rider Wait Tarot, the most popular deck 417 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: of all time and is still being produced today. The 418 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: Writer in the name is for the Writer Publishing Company, 419 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: and one of the big changes in this deck is 420 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: the pip cards being illustrated with their own imagery that 421 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: was intended for divination, and this kind of takes them 422 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: completely away from gameplay decks. And indeed, by the early 423 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: twentieth century, there was very little, if any association between 424 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: games and tarot cards in most popular culture, with two 425 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: big exceptions as being England and a lot in France, 426 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: where the game version persisted. You can still play Tarot 427 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: in France. The game it is like one of the 428 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: most popular card games um. The Rider Wait Deck featured 429 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: illustrations by a woman named Pamela Coleman Smith, who was 430 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: also a member of Golden Dawn. She is also fascinating 431 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: and I would love to do an episode on her. 432 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: At some point, uh Wait characterized the deck as a 433 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: quote spiritual history of man, following along the idea that 434 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: the tarot connected to the esoteric knowledge of many cultures. 435 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: This was not the first time the suit cards were illustrated. 436 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: There's a version of the game Tarot called the Solo 437 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: Busca Tarot that features illustrated pip cards. These do appear 438 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: to have been a source of direct inspiration for the 439 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: Rider Wait Deck, but the fifteenth century Solo Busca Deck, 440 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: while it was visually really rich, was still intended for 441 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,719 Speaker 1: game play, although modern recreations have been used for divination 442 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: and interpretation. And then we get to Alistair Crowley, who 443 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: was born Edward Alexander Crowley. He changed his name at 444 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: the age of twenty three years later in eight he 445 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: joined the Golden Dawn and Crowley is a fascinating figure. 446 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: He could easily be the topic of an episode all 447 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: his own, and he's kind of close to the top 448 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: of the list. We'll see at Halloween time next year. Maybe. Um. 449 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: His good fortune in being born very wealthy meant that 450 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: he was afforded really a life of indulgence, even after 451 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: he just kind of dropped out of university without a 452 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: degree and decided he would travel and write poetry. In 453 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: the Golden Dawn, Crowley found a rivalry with Yates, but 454 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: that's really a trifle compared to the conflicts that he 455 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: would be part of throughout his life. Eventually, he had 456 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: burned through his inheritance and he started traveling less. He 457 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: became a captivating figure after his death, but during his 458 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: lifetime most views of him were pretty unfavorable because of 459 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: his association with black magic, including the death of one 460 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: of his followers in Sicily that led to him being 461 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: kicked out of Italy permanently, and the rift between Crowley 462 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: and Mathers, which also led to his really bad reputation, 463 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: began with the publication of Crowley's book Lebor seven seven 464 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: seven in nineteen o nine, and in this book he 465 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: shared details of the connection between the Hebrew alphabet and 466 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: the major arcana of tarot cards. That was information that 467 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: was considered a secret among the members of the Olden Dawn, 468 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: and divulging that secret was just the beginning. Crowley also 469 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: started publishing articles in which he described the various rights, rituals, 470 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: and other secret knowledge of the order. Crowley wrote the 471 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: Book of Thought, a short essay of the Tarot of 472 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: the Egyptians, near the end of his life that was 473 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: in nint. It linked back to court Jbule night One writing. 474 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: Crowley had designed a tarot to accompany the text. He 475 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: had collaborated with artist FREDA. Harris, but that wasn't actually 476 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: published along with the book. Crowley's Thought tarot wasn't published 477 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: until nineteen sixty nine, at which point Crowley had been 478 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: dead for more than twenty years. So in the last 479 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: fifty years since that Crowley tarot was published, tarot cards 480 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: have become really mainstream. There are how two books available 481 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: in abundance. You can literally walk into a big box 482 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: store and buy them. Um decks are now made that 483 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: are themed with everything from famous works of art to 484 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: TV and film characters. Maybe an our Friday casual chat, 485 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: I'll talk about some of the decks I have because 486 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: I just like them, uh and the ways that people 487 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: have used them have also continued to diversify. So people 488 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: still use them for divination, people use them to meditate, 489 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: people just I collect them because I think they usually 490 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: have cool art. And within any of those there are 491 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: widely varied approaches to how people will use them. And 492 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: as we look at the long arc of tarot from 493 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: its beginnings as a game to becoming imbued with this 494 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: meaning over the centuries, how he wanted to close with 495 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: a quote from a book written in nineteen seventy by 496 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: Eden Gray on Taro. It's one of those mass market 497 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: paperbacks that has been a popular entry point for people 498 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: who want to learn about taro since its first publication. Yeah, 499 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: I kind of love this because it is a book 500 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: that teaches people how to use tarot cards. But her 501 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 1: discussion of it is so um frank in terms of 502 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: like what we do and don't of its actual history 503 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: and and how it has become this thing that it 504 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: was not initially that I really love the way she 505 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: wrote about it. She wrote, quote, the origins of tarot 506 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: are so veiled in the mists of time that it 507 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: is only natural for myths and legends to have grown up, 508 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: particularly around the major arcana. Superstition, flights of fancy and 509 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: speculation have added their own patterns to the rich and 510 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: colorful tapestry of Tara lore, and curiously enough, have only 511 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: deepened its aura of magic and mystery. Cults have grown 512 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: up around one or another historical theory, and sometimes their 513 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: adherents have become fanatical and proclaiming the one and only truth. 514 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: But the better informed investigators retain a certain amount of flexibility, 515 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: even skepticism, and make no iron clad assertions. Ah. I 516 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: love the way she put that. It was perfect. Yeah, 517 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: it's like you can study this and it is meat, 518 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: but like, we don't know a lot about it. Really, 519 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: we're adding our own ideas to this, and that's part 520 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: of what gives it meaning. But you can't assume that 521 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: this was handed down from some ancient god. Um. So 522 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: that is uh, a little bit of Tarot history, a 523 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: brief overview. Do you have some listener mail to take 524 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: us out of it? I have two pieces. Uh. One 525 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: is from our listener am and it's something that we 526 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: have heard before, but not in a while. So I 527 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: thought I would just float it up for fun. She wrote. 528 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: Hopefully this will make you laugh on a random day. 529 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: When you need it, I always need it. I have 530 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: listened to the podcast for a long time, through all 531 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: various hosts and on various phones and pods over time. 532 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: And while I have seen the podcast page showing your 533 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: pictures and listen to you both say your name's probably 534 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: thousands of times, I only just happened to be looking 535 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: at the page at the point of your podcast where 536 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: you say your names. And I've had your voices attached 537 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: to the wrong faces for years. Just from voices, I 538 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: would have sworn that it was trade See that had 539 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: purple hair and Holly who wore glasses. I was thoroughly 540 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: astonished to realize exactly who was who. I don't know 541 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: why I hadn't paid attention before, maybe because I'm usually 542 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: listening while walking or driving, but it made me giggle 543 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: to realize just how long I've had the opposite names 544 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: and bases connected. Thanks for all you do in providing 545 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: such a continuous source of knowledge and entertainment. Long time listener, 546 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: and and you are not the only one that happens 547 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: all the time. It always it always makes me chuckle 548 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: because of course Tracy and I know who we are, 549 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: but um, we sure, but it happens. I mean I've 550 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: done the same thing with audio only entertainment. Yeah. Uh, 551 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: and it's super common. I always love it. Back in 552 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: the before times when we would do live shows periodically 553 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: during meet and greet, someone would say, I'm freaking out 554 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: because I had you opposite the whole time. I had 555 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: your names backward, and I'm like, wow. Sometimes Tracy and 556 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: I are very tired when we record, and we will 557 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: say the wrong names ourselves. But that's a different issue. 558 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: We we don't actually think we're the other person. Um. 559 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: But just in case anyone's out there, Yeah, I have 560 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: purple hair. Tracy has glasses. I sometimes wear glasses, but 561 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: not all the time. Well, and at this point in 562 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: the in the pandemic, my my hair is closer to 563 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: a bluish black than my regular brown. It's not fairly 564 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: as dramatic as as the purple in your hair. Uh, 565 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: this is my natural color. Uh. And then I have 566 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: another email from listener Halle because I realized they didn't 567 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: make a direct connection in our Bram Stoker episode. Uh. 568 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: To me, it seemed obvious, but again that's because I 569 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: was in the middle of that material all the time. 570 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: Halle writes, at the beginning of the bram Stoker episode, 571 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: you said there was a fact you thought was crazy, 572 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: and we're texting your friends about all week. What was it? 573 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: Nothing seemed particularly crazy about his life. Thanks for all 574 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: you do, Okay, that obsession with Walt Whitman, he seemed crazy. Um, 575 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: and I just I don't I yeah, that seems bananas 576 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: to me. Just the idea that he spent years of 577 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: his life kind of obsessed with Walt Whitman and writing 578 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: him these really strange fan letters. Uh, that was That 579 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: was what it was. I never would have thought, you know. 580 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: I bet the guy who wrote Dracula wrote Walt Whitman 581 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: these really really emotionally raw yeah yeah letters about his life. 582 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: So I'm sorry that I didn't draw a more direct 583 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: line there, but that's what it was. Sorry to have 584 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: left you hanging. If you would like to write to us, 585 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: you can absolutely do that. You can do that at 586 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: History Podcast at i heeart radio dot com. You can 587 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: also find us on social media where Everywhere is Missed 588 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: in History, And if you would like to subscribe to 589 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: the podcasts, that is easy to do. You can do 590 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: that on the iHeart radio app at Apple Podcasts, or 591 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: wherever it is you listen. Stuff you missed in History 592 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more 593 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 594 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 595 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: M