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Speaker 1: Hey Va, fam, Welcome to wash Day WUSA. I am

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Speaker 1: so genuinely thrilled to have today's guest with you. It's

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Speaker 1: a very special episode, a very special person. Today we

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Speaker 1: are talking all about legacy, grit, building your own table

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Speaker 1: and maybe a house, and maybe a whole city block,

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Speaker 1: maybe a whole stadium. We are so hyped to welcome

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McKissick Daniel. She is the president and CEO of

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Speaker 1: Mackissick and Mackissick. This is the oldest black and women

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Speaker 1: own design and construction firm in the country. We're talking

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Speaker 1: five generations deep, y'all. Cheryl is here to talk about

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Speaker 1: her brand new book, part memoir. I would say heavy

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Speaker 1: on the memoir, but also heavy on the inspiration and

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Speaker 1: really offering. Maybe this wasn't the intent. We'll get into

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Speaker 1: it a little bit of a blueprint for how to

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Speaker 1: come through a heavily mail, a heavily pale industry and

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Speaker 1: rise to the top and face those challenges and to

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Speaker 1: still dig deep and find that resilience. The book is

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Speaker 1: called The block Back Family Who Built America, The Mackissics

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Speaker 1: two centuries of daring pioneers. What a beautiful cover. I

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Speaker 1: love a cover.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank yeah, check out this book.

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Speaker 1: So you may not recognize Cheryl, which is probably part

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Speaker 1: of the plan right visibly, Like you may see her

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Speaker 1: walking down the street and know that lady has got

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Speaker 1: some style, some swag, like what does she do well?

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Speaker 1: You may recognize her work and the work of Machissic

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Speaker 1: and Machissics. So if you've ever walked by the Barclay Center,

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Speaker 1: you ever gone to a New York Liberty game, seen

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Speaker 1: a jay Z show, flown out of JFK maybe, or

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Speaker 1: seeing the Harlem Hospital Center, chances are Cheryl's fingerprints are

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Speaker 1: in the blueprint. She's a proud Nashvilian and a Howard

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Speaker 1: University alum. She's spent over thirty years breaking barriers and

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Speaker 1: literally changing the skyline in the process. But Cheryl's not

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Speaker 1: just about building buildings, She's also about building community. So

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Speaker 1: she's awarded, celebrated, and always focused on opening doors for

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Speaker 1: other women and people of color in an industry that

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Speaker 1: has always welcomed us. So here today is Cheryl McKissick.

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Speaker 2: Daniel.

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Speaker 1: I am so so happy and honored to welcome you

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Speaker 1: to Brown Ambition.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Mandy. I am excited to speak with you today.

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Speaker 2: So this is yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean the book itself is it is. It's different.

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Speaker 1: You don't often get a book like this that's written

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Speaker 1: by someone who grew up in such a huge, deeply

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Speaker 1: like like going back five generations of a legacy into

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Speaker 1: especially by a woman of color. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: we're talking about from slavery until now michisic and mckissic

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Speaker 1: has been through it. What did it mean for you

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Speaker 1: to put your family story on paper like this in

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Speaker 1: this way for the first time.

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Speaker 2: I am so happy to have been able to, you know,

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Speaker 2: finally get this book done after twenty plus years on

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Speaker 2: this journey to get this story out. You know, I

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Speaker 2: started with a person out in Hollywood who was going

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Speaker 2: to do like a sitcom, and that was in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, and worked on that for several years and

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Speaker 2: it didn't go anywhere. And then I met with Marie Brown,

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Speaker 2: who was a literary publisher from Doubleday, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we worked with the historian to pull this story together.

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Speaker 2: But you'd be surprised how hard it is to talk

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Speaker 2: about five generations and make it interesting. So the first

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Speaker 2: version of the book that I got it was so boring.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this is not it. This is not it.

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Speaker 2: You have to make it with a giving textbook. Uh

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Speaker 2: it was. Yeah, it was chronological, you know, starting with

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Speaker 2: Moses mciswick the first, going to the next. And you

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Speaker 2: know I had read Cast by Isabella Wilkerson, and you know,

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Speaker 2: she's able to tell stories inside of the history to

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Speaker 2: make it, you know, a lot more palatable. And so

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Speaker 2: when I met Nick Childs and and we begin to

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Speaker 2: talk about what this book should looked like. Nick was

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Speaker 2: able to then pull it all together and make the

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Speaker 2: book extremely interesting while giving ten bits of history that

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Speaker 2: people just may not know. And at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure that people understood I'm a

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Speaker 2: real person. You know, I'm not a made up character.

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Speaker 2: I have had, you know, all these different issues occur

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Speaker 2: in my life, and I wanted to bring out the

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Speaker 2: fullness and what that meant so that I could really

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Speaker 2: paint a picture of what it's been like to run

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Speaker 2: this company. But to get this book out and this

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Speaker 2: day and time when we are experiencing you know that

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Speaker 2: people want to erase our history, they want to do

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Speaker 2: away with D and I programs. That's what makes the

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Speaker 2: timing so perfect, because our book is saying, listen, we

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Speaker 2: have always been You may want to ignore us, but

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Speaker 2: we're not going anywhere. We are here. We have provided

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Speaker 2: black excellence in everything that we have done, and we

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Speaker 2: will continue to do that. You can't embrase it. There's

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Speaker 2: nothing you can do. So doing it in this time

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Speaker 2: and in this in this environment, it means an awful lot.

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Speaker 2: And my mother told me, Serrol, you better get this

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Speaker 2: book out before a dot.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to ninety four year old mom on the

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Speaker 1: KISSICKI now ninety five. Oh my goodness. That was my

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Speaker 1: favorite part of the book. I'm not gonna lie. You know,

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Speaker 1: the machissic like the story of how the design from

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Speaker 1: the construction firm was created. It's very heavy on the mail,

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Speaker 1: lots of moseses and you know it was clear that,

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Speaker 1: like the men were really building the foundation. But then

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Speaker 1: you have this this switch that happens. You know, your father, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: he passes away when you were you're about to graduate

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Speaker 1: from Howard.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yes, he had a sorry, he first had his stroke

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Speaker 1: when you and your twin sister were planning your party,

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Speaker 1: your graduation party from Howard, right.

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Speaker 2: Right, So we were graduating that Saturday. He probably had

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Speaker 2: the stroke three or four days before we graduated from Howard,

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Speaker 2: so we did not walk with our class. We graduated,

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Speaker 2: but we weren't able to actually attend our graduation hm. Hm.

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Speaker 1: And you know, at the time, he was really the patriarch,

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Speaker 1: I mean, he ran the business. How involved was your

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Speaker 1: mother leading up to your father falling ill? How involved

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Speaker 1: was she in the business, Because I'm just so amazed

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Speaker 1: by how she took the helm and that same week

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Speaker 1: was walking into the offices like, hello, I am your

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Speaker 1: new CEO. You're annoyed by that and sorry, I get

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Speaker 1: used to it. What's going on? How How much was

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Speaker 1: you involved before that?

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Speaker 2: So you know, it was a different day at a

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Speaker 2: different time. So when my father had to entertain clients,

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Speaker 2: she would always say, bring them home. Let's just not

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Speaker 2: go out to a restaurant. Bring them home and I

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Speaker 2: will cook, which is what she did. She was a

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Speaker 2: fabulous cook, a great entertainer. She was a school teacher,

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Speaker 2: and you know, her father had a PhD from Harvard,

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Speaker 2: so she read a lot. She was into, you know,

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Speaker 2: current events, so she could have very substantive conversations with

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Speaker 2: my father's clients. And so they enjoyed coming to the

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Speaker 2: house and meeting with her, so she was she was

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Speaker 2: building relationships then with some of the clients, but didn't

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Speaker 2: know she'd ever have to use it. But as far

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Speaker 2: as the actual office, but my father, she'll tell you

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Speaker 2: she only knew the telephone number to the office. She

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Speaker 2: was not about to go into the office and do

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Speaker 2: anything until all of this occurred. And when my father

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Speaker 2: became ill, you know, she decided, listen, I'm gonna hold

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Speaker 2: on to this company in case one of my kids

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Speaker 2: are interested. Mind you, my twin sister and I were

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Speaker 2: just graduated with engineering degrees from Howard University, and my

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Speaker 2: older sister had an architectural engineering degree, so we were trained,

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Speaker 2: but the timing wasn't right. We weren't ready to step

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Speaker 2: in and take over a business. So my mother decided

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what she was going to do. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we feel that her master's in psychology really helped her

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Speaker 2: deal with the manias and phobias of people that just

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Speaker 2: couldn't understand that a woman could run a business. Because

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Speaker 2: in those times, all of her friends they were like teachers, libras,

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Speaker 2: you know, they they weren't lawyers and doctors. And this

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Speaker 2: was not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: This was in the eighties, right, late eighties, mid eighties.

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Speaker 1: But your mom was also deeply educated, you know, she

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Speaker 1: really was like one of those women who were they

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Speaker 1: were part of that generation where it was like get

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Speaker 1: your education, get your eduction. You know, she was very educated,

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Speaker 1: came from a very you know, polished and well known family,

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Speaker 1: right and at the same time that that generation, like

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Speaker 1: you were, you were brought up to be intelligent and

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Speaker 1: to be highly educated, but then expected to sort of

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Speaker 1: like put it to the side a little bit like

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Speaker 1: underemploy yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And then.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, what an amazing how did she

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Speaker 1: like how brave and how courageous to say I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take this entire company and hold on to it for

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Speaker 1: my girls, when I don't think anyone would have looked

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Speaker 1: at her sideways had she decided to sell or to

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Speaker 1: have someone else take it over. Was it something that

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Speaker 1: your father and her talked about the importance of that

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Speaker 1: legacy and how they wanted to keep Machisic and Mchisic

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Speaker 1: in the family. Was the lore if that's something they

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Speaker 1: all grew up hearing and understanding.

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Speaker 2: Not at all. I don't think, you know, they this

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Speaker 2: was a shock to them when my father became ill.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think there was any planning around succession.

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Speaker 2: This is something that my mother decided to do. And

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Speaker 2: you're right, many people, other architectural owners came to her

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Speaker 2: and said, let me buy your business. You know, you're

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Speaker 2: a woman, you're not an architect, you're not engineered. You're

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Speaker 2: not going to be able to handle this. But she persevered.

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Speaker 2: And also remember during that time, women could not borrow money. Jesus,

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Speaker 2: a time when only men could borrow.

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Speaker 3: I barely have a credit card at that point, right,

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Speaker 3: you know that didn't happen until nineteen ninety with the

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Speaker 3: Women's Business Act passed in Congress that you know, you

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Speaker 3: know that said you can't discriminate against women.

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Speaker 2: Banks could not discriminate against women. So she was able

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Speaker 2: to build relationships. I mean, she understood right away the

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Speaker 2: most important thing was revenue, bringing in new clients and

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Speaker 2: new projects, and that's what she did. She was very

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Speaker 2: hard worker. You know, there there were no ubers, there

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Speaker 2: were he weren't no trains and things in the South.

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Speaker 2: She's in that kindillact though. I guess she jumping.

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Speaker 1: County lines with the cops chasing her. I live for

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Speaker 1: those anecdotes in the body Live that's her.

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Speaker 2: That is her, very strong and very determined. You know.

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Speaker 2: She she just didn't play. She was my idol, my hero.

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Speaker 2: She taught me a lot about business development in her

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Speaker 2: own simple way. You know, I'll never forget weld walk

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Speaker 2: in the campus of Tuscangee University. Actually it was an

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Speaker 2: opening of a building that she had just finished designing

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Speaker 2: and constructing, and the president says to her, you know what,

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Speaker 2: mister Kissick, I told you I needed operable windows in

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Speaker 2: this building, and you have built this entire building. Were

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Speaker 2: not one operable building. We're gonna suffocate. This is Tuskegee, Alabama.

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Speaker 2: Oh no operable windows. Yeah, so the windows couldn't open.

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Speaker 2: The windows.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't know that was a future. One had

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Speaker 1: to ask for it.

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Speaker 2: So Mom said, Mom said, oh, you know, you are

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Speaker 2: absolutely right, and it's our mistake. We're going to take

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Speaker 2: out every single woman window and replace it with aquable

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Speaker 2: windows because some people used you know, air conditioned, so

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Speaker 2: sometimes they didn't want the windows to open. And so

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Speaker 2: he was like very happy that, you know, she had

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Speaker 2: taken this this powerful leadership move to correct the situation.

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Speaker 2: So now we leave that structure and we're walking on

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Speaker 2: the campus and she says, aren't you looking for a

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Speaker 2: new residence. Don't you need somewhere new to stay. It's

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Speaker 2: like yes. So Mom pointed to this old, dilapidated building

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Speaker 2: and said, I see you living there. I think we

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Speaker 2: should renovate that building. And we're gonna call in great columns.

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Speaker 2: And he said, are you crazy? We have lot of

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Speaker 2: equipment in that building. You know, we're storing crap. No

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Speaker 2: one's been in that building. My mother convinced him to

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Speaker 2: see it differently, and he commissioned her to design this

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Speaker 2: new presidential residence and how it break out. So in

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Speaker 2: one day she was able to fix a problem, but

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Speaker 2: then get another project. And I look at her, you know,

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Speaker 2: and think about you know, what was she thinking? How

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Speaker 2: did she know to do that? No one had taught

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Speaker 2: her that. It was just in eight that she was

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Speaker 2: able to, you know, understand how to how to endear people.

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Speaker 1: M Can you talk about your mother and father's relationship.

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Speaker 1: She must have really loved and respected him and paid

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Speaker 1: she was paying attention all those years. She was so

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Speaker 1: deeply involved with like you know, like you said, hosting

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Speaker 1: his clients and things like that, did you grow up

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Speaker 1: kind of seeing your parents have a deep connection and

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Speaker 1: like do you think that was partly why she was

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Speaker 1: so devoted to the business after he you know fell ill.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you know, you're absolutely right. She did admire him

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Speaker 2: and you know his creative ability. You know, he would

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Speaker 2: sit at the dinner table and sketch out the documents

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Speaker 2: just in just whyle he's talking. And I think she

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Speaker 2: really enjoyed that. And then you know he told her

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Speaker 2: early on, instead of going out and buying a beautiful

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Speaker 2: Houston dress but all of your friends, he said, I

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Speaker 2: want you to spend our money and invest in black art.

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Speaker 2: So she found a true passion in investing in black

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Speaker 2: art and she really made that her mission and she

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Speaker 2: enjoyed it. But he is the one who started that.

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Speaker 2: Now she still would go get a nice dress, but

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Speaker 2: he definitely spent a lot.

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Speaker 4: Of money on art, and you know that that that

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Speaker 4: created the same passion in myself and my two sisters.

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Speaker 2: But their relationship was was very special. I mean they

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Speaker 2: understood each other. My father was a very eclectic person.

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Speaker 2: You know, he didn't care how he looked he didn't

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Speaker 2: care about his clothes and things like that, and you know,

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Speaker 2: she would dress up and let him do whatever he

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Speaker 2: wanted to do, if he wanted to put on jeans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that dichotomy because he was i mean,

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Speaker 1: now apart from being a part of this like legacy

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Speaker 1: construction business and being very successful at Nashville. But she

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Speaker 1: was the more like polished in prim and like. But

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Speaker 1: she let him be himself, and he, you know, seemed

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Speaker 1: to have let her be herself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a great opposite the tract.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's true.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 2: And then they were connected and in step when it

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Speaker 2: came to raising us.

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Speaker 1: I was going to get because you cuties the division

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Speaker 1: of the twin sisters and y'all going on Saturdays with

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Speaker 1: Daddy to the construction sites. I thought that was so adorable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: talk to me about about Darryl also, Cheryl and Darryl

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Speaker 1: is so funny.

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Speaker 2: And my grandmother did that. My mother said, you know,

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Speaker 2: they told my father she was having twins, but told

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Speaker 2: him not to tell her. Wait what, Yes, so she

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Speaker 2: didn't know she was having twins. No, what? No? And

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Speaker 2: so I was born first, and then you know, they

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Speaker 2: gave her anesthesia when they began to see my twin

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Speaker 2: sister's head come out, so she woke up. She had

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Speaker 2: two daughters, two twins, and my grandmother had named those

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Speaker 2: Cyril and Daryl.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now that was different times.

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Speaker 2: It's totally different times.

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Speaker 1: We're a very different would been like you named my daughters.

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Speaker 1: What we're just going to x that out right also,

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Speaker 1: but your dad was so excited to have twin girls.

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Speaker 1: You write, yes, and at that point you also toward

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Speaker 1: the end of the book where we're talking more about

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Speaker 1: legacy and you now have two daughters, and you get

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Speaker 1: into how it was a very like male dominated, you know,

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Speaker 1: ownership of the machistic and mechistic up until that point.

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Speaker 1: Did that start to shift when you and Cheryl and

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Speaker 1: Daryl were born and came into the picture, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there just seemed to be more more women, women being

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Speaker 1: born into the family. And it seems like your dad

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Speaker 1: really fostered and encouraged your love of business, design architecture

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Speaker 1: from a young age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, he just leaned into it

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Speaker 2: as opposed to his grandfather, Moldas mckins the second, who

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Speaker 2: had seven girls first and then seven boys, and each

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Speaker 2: time they had a girl, they wanted a boy. So

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Speaker 2: when the first boy came and that was Moses Mciusic,

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Speaker 2: the ID, they gave him all the names of the

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Speaker 2: boys they wanted to have. So his name is Moses Edward.

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Speaker 2: John Henry Lewis my God. So, you know, back in

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Speaker 2: that time, having a mail was important. I think that

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Speaker 2: by the time my father came along, and you know,

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Speaker 2: he had twins and he had my oldest sister, he

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Speaker 2: leaned into the fact that this is just what it's

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Speaker 2: going to be, and now how do I get my

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Speaker 2: girls involved in my business? And that's why he would

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Speaker 2: take us to the office. That's why he would give

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Speaker 2: us some new Ward lettering sets. He would give us,

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Speaker 2: you know, trains. You know, we really didn't get dolls.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we had one or two, but for the most part,

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Speaker 2: we were given all these other gifts that you would

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Speaker 2: normally give a guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's he understood what he needed to do

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Speaker 2: to get us to get on the path that he

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Speaker 2: wanted us to be on, like going to Howard University.

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Speaker 2: He would tell us all the time, you can go

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Speaker 2: to any school you want to, but the only school

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Speaker 2: I'm paying for is Howard University. Okay, that's easy enough,

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Speaker 2: easy enough, easy enough, right, and you're gonna study architecture

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Speaker 2: and engineering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're And you and Daryl didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: resist that. That's such a you really embraced it. You like,

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Speaker 1: And I'm a mom. I have young boys. I have

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Speaker 1: a five year old and a two year old, and

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Speaker 1: I think about I don't want to put too much

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Speaker 1: pressure on what they'd decide to do. It's very much

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Speaker 1: like okay, firefighter one day, engineer the next, astronaut or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But you you at the same time like, ooh, I'm

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Speaker 1: very big into reading right now. I love the part

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Speaker 1: where you said your mom would give y'all extra homework

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Speaker 1: after you Like, I'm very very that mom. He's had

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Speaker 1: a whole work book this summer, but at this and

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Speaker 1: I want him to foster a love of reading and writing.

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Speaker 1: But any any insight into like how do you strike

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Speaker 1: that balance to where like you're not feeling like the

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Speaker 1: kids are not resisting. Now you had your rebellious streak.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that. We love it. We

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Speaker 1: love a bad girl, but no bad girl. But you

354
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Speaker 1: still did your school work. You got A's you went

355
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Speaker 1: to Howard you you know, you you did follow in

356
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Speaker 1: your in your family's footsteps in that way.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was a different day. It's totally different day.

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Speaker 2: And we were raised by our parents, you know, our

359
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: parents and their little enclave of friends where that's who

360
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Speaker 2: we saw and that's who made an impression on us,

361
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Speaker 2: you know. So there were doctors, there were lawyers, there

362
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 2: were educators, and so we were the only family that

363
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Speaker 2: was really in design and construction. And so my twin

364
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Speaker 2: sister and I were always very good well when it

365
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Speaker 2: came to math. Everything in stem we excelled in. So

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Speaker 2: it was kind of natural for us. There weren't as

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Speaker 2: many choices. I remember when my oldest daughter went to

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Speaker 2: George Washington and she had to choose, you know, what

369
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Speaker 2: she wanted to major in, and it was like two

370
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 2: hundred and some are choice, you know, and I'm thinking

371
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Speaker 2: to myself, this is ridiculous. You know, back then, we

372
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Speaker 2: only had three TV stations, you know, we broke so

373
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Speaker 2: we weren't getting a lot of information outside of the

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Speaker 2: reality of who we are and you know, what our

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Speaker 2: community stood for, and so we were really being raised

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Speaker 2: by our parents. I don't think our kids are being

377
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Speaker 2: raised by us completely. I think they're having so much

378
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Speaker 2: inside out influence that it is affecting, you know, what

379
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Speaker 2: we say and what we do. Back then, we whatever

380
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Speaker 2: our parents told us to do is what we did. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So once.

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Speaker 1: It was like don't bring don't bring any friends over

383
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Speaker 1: while we're at dinner. Everyone listening to that. Well, I

384
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Speaker 1: love the I can see. You know, originally when you

385
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Speaker 1: said you were thinking about doing a sitcom, I'm like, sitcom?

386
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: Is this really giving sitcom? And I'm like, oh, but

387
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Speaker 1: if they were doing the young cheryln Darryl years, yes,

388
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Speaker 1: I think since sitcom.

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Speaker 2: Would yes, absolutely, yeah.

390
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Speaker 1: I mean you were really like the Huxtables. You were

391
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Speaker 1: living Huxtables, you know, in a way we were. We

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Speaker 1: were just not on the screen obviously. And oh okay,

393
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Speaker 1: I want to bring it back to your career trajectory,

394
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Speaker 1: and like you said, you know, you're so you're having

395
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Speaker 1: this huge life shift. You're you know, having to say

396
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Speaker 1: goodbye to the first the version of your father who

397
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: you knew after he has a stroke, and then how

398
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: long was it before he passed away? After he had

399
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: his initials?

400
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 2: She recovered right, right, So that was nineteen eighty three

401
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: when he had this stroke and he passed in nineteen

402
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: eighty seven, so five years later. And at that point,

403
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 2: you're you moved to New York City, right, Well, I

404
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: start my masters at Howard University. So I'm still in

405
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 2: DC for the next two and a half three years.

406
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: And you know, my my father, as a result of stroke,

407
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: could not speak. He lost feeling in the left side

408
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 2: of his body, and you know, so he could walk,

409
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 2: but he had a limp. And so he came to

410
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 2: visit me that summer and we did a lot of

411
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Speaker 2: speech therapy. That's right.

412
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Speaker 1: You really were like you gave your mom a break?

413
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Speaker 2: Was my mom a break?

414
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: Wonderful?

415
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 2: And so you know, I was in grad school working

416
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: on my thesis. In grad school was a lot of work.

417
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Speaker 2: Uh so, concentrating on that while my mom was still

418
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: running the business. Was she she was all alone. She

419
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: was by herself. And that's when she also sued the

420
00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: city of Nashville over airport contract and she was blackballed

421
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: for several years from getting you know, new contracts in

422
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: the city. And so you know, it was a difficult

423
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: time and she was taking care of my father, hm,

424
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Speaker 2: but he lived long enough for UH to walk me

425
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Speaker 2: down the aisle for my first my first wedding.

426
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Speaker 1: I mean, you have to talk about that man who

427
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: called your what did he call your father's your family business,

428
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: I don't want to repeat.

429
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: It, a nigga business. How are you able to laugh

430
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: at that?

431
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: I was mad? I'm like, how quickly do we get

432
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: rid of him in this book? Like come on the jealousy? Well, no,

433
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: that's an interesting I want to talk about that early

434
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: career because at that point, you so you've graduated from Howard,

435
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: you've completed your I know you had a rough go

436
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: of it doing your your thesis right in grad school

437
00:26:59,000 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: or was that?

438
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was very rough, Yes, very rough. Understand.

439
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: I mean you also were like caretaking and you know,

440
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: a lot going on. So but you're you're feeling that

441
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: pull to move, like many young black professionals in like

442
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: the early nineties, to go to the big city work

443
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: for a big white you know PW I like, work

444
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: for these firms that are like impressive, right, but you're

445
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: in this rare situation where you actually have, you know,

446
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: a family firm, a respectable one that you could be

447
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: working for. But can you talk about kind of answering

448
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: that call to to move to New York and work

449
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: for another big firm instead of working for the family business.

450
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a period of tower where I just

451
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: knew I could not go back to the family business.

452
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: You know, when I went to Howard, I feel like

453
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: I escaped Nashville. Nashville was not the cool spot that

454
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: it is right now. You know, it probably had three

455
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: hundred thousand people, but it just it wasn't what I wanted.

456
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: I wanted, you know, the hustle and bustle, and you

457
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: know the opportunity that presents itself in New York City.

458
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: You know, our parents used to take us to New

459
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: York when we were growing up, and my desire was

460
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: to have my professional career in New York and so

461
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: I knew that. So when I graduated finally with my

462
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: master's debris, the only place that I began to look

463
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: for a job was in New York City. I could not.

464
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: I felt like I needed to get experience outside of

465
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: the family firm to be able to possibly consider coming

466
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: back to the family firm. I didn't even think at

467
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: that point I would ever go back to the family firm.

468
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: But of course, you know what happened, Well, were your parents.

469
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: I mean at that point, your father is ill, but yeah,

470
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: they didn't like try to. I know your mom eventually

471
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: got her close in and brought you back, right, that's

472
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: what happened. But before that, they were letting you fly free.

473
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: It's it seems like.

474
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: She was letting me fly free. And I would have

475
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: stayed in New York if she hadn't called my boss

476
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: that day and told my boss that I quit. And

477
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: then she called me and told me that I quit,

478
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: and I was just shumped.

479
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: Okay, So the patterns repeating itself because the way that

480
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: her mom named her children for her, well, that's they're

481
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: quitting your job for you.

482
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: And then it repeats itself again when I tell her

483
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 2: you're retiring today.

484
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: Ah see, you are like little pac men, just like

485
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, like your time is up. I mean, game

486
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: recognizes game. I guess there's like that level of respect.

487
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: Like Okay, well if they're saying and my daughter is

488
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: saying and my mother is saying it, but she doesn't

489
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: mean she basically at that point is that your father

490
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: has passed at this point and she's overwhelmed and she's like,

491
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: I need you. You have to come back and work

492
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: for us. Right, but even then, you, I mean you

493
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: were How did you decide I'm going to stay in

494
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: the city half the week and then fly to Nashville

495
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: the other half. That's a pretty brutal commute and schedule

496
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: to maintain for two years.

497
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: Right, So I you know, I just said to my mom, listen,

498
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: I just gotten married. I'm really a newly wit. I

499
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: have gotten home with my husband. But I can come

500
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: and work with you during the week and then on Fridays.

501
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: I would work out of the New York office when

502
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: when we did not have anything remote.

503
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: Okay, which you set up that New York office? You

504
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: incorporated yep? In Manhattan?

505
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: Right? Yes? Yes, and literally in a four floor walk

506
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: up on fifty seventh Street. I mean startup. It was

507
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: a startup. Yes, my guys get to.

508
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: Start in their parents' garage.

509
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: I feel for walk up. It's very respectable. I remember

510
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: when I got my first certification and they had to

511
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: come to a site visit, and I told him can

512
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: you come around noon, because then I could have all

513
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: my friends come to my office that act like they're

514
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: working during lunchtime. Wait.

515
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: I did work for a startup where all the photos

516
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: on the company website. None of those people worked there.

517
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: They were just friends that they brought. I'm like, where

518
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: are these people at It was just me, It was

519
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: just you. You were scrappy like that. So you're starting

520
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: and at that point michistic and mechistic. Like it's very

521
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: well known in the South, right, Like you guys were

522
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: building billions at at Tuskegee University and in Alabama.

523
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a lot. You had a big.

524
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: Presence in Nashville, very respectable. But starting up this this

525
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: this branch in New York, in Manhattan, in the real

526
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: estate capital of the world, at least of America. God,

527
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: during the Trump Hey days, like that must have been.

528
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: That must have been, Well, you tell me what it

529
00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: must have been like.

530
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: Well, I was very determined and I had a strategy,

531
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: and so I just made myself stick to it. I

532
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: knew I needed to identify the agencies in New York

533
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 2: City that had the most capital dollars, and that's what

534
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: I needed to pursue. And this was in the infancy

535
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: of minority women own business programs, and so those programs

536
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: a loted I would say back then, like eight percent

537
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: of a project would go to minority women owned businesses.

538
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: You know, today it's like over thirty between thirty and

539
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: fifty percent that go to minority businesses, but when it

540
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: first started, it was only like eight percent. So I

541
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: felt like, you know, well, that's good because that gives

542
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 2: me an opportunity to be a subcontractor to larger companies

543
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: that provided the exact same services. But they could show

544
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: me the ropes, show me how to build in New

545
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: York because New York is a complicated place. You know,

546
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: you have to get building permits. You're working with unions

547
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: and non union people, community people, and you know where

548
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: the three meet is not beautiful. Yeah, you know, you're

549
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: you're dealing with the m t A, the f t A,

550
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: you're all the agencies when you are constructing a building

551
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: that you have to interface with DP just getting trash

552
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: off the site. I mean, it's a complicated thing that

553
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: I was grateful that a lot of my strategic alliances

554
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: were able to help me with that. But it's true

555
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: when I when I would go in to pitch the business,

556
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: I would tell people all this repertoire of business that

557
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: mckisick had done, and people would look at me with

558
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: straight face and safe. But none of it's in New York,

559
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: so we don't care what you did in Nashville or

560
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: Memphis or in Alabama. You don't have any New York experience,

561
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: so you're starting from scratch. And I would say, well,

562
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: not really, I do understand how to build. Maybe I

563
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 2: haven't done it here in New York, but I think,

564
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: you know, I offer probably the best scenario for you

565
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: to get your MWBE requirements met with an established company.

566
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: You know, I think the main thing is being able

567
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: to have capital in this business. And when I first started,

568
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 2: I really didn't have a lot of capital. But I

569
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 2: had friends who worked on Wall Street who did have,

570
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 2: you know, some money, And so when I had to

571
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: make my first payroll and I had no cash, I

572
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: went to them, and I mean it was It's a

573
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: great story of black solidarity being able to go to

574
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: five friends, maybe with six, and they each gave me

575
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars.

576
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: You were trying to hire one architect or project manager

577
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: or someone you needed to get your first big job done.

578
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: I need to get my first big job done. And

579
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 2: you know how that is. You have to you put

580
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 2: in your invoice after you worked for thirty days right,

581
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: and then you know, it goes back and forth, it

582
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: has to be corrected, then it has to go through

583
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: a government tape red tape system for them to actually

584
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: release a payment. So that cycle could take anywhere from

585
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: three to six months before you get your first check, right, and.

586
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: So you're trying to pay them before all that stuff

587
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: has had like before all the.

588
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: Right, but you have to make your payroll every two weeks.

589
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: Got it? Okay? Yeah, it sounds highly stressful.

590
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: So that's what I needed funding for. And my friends

591
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: on Wall Street did that for me.

592
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: Hey ba, fam, we got to take a quick break,

593
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: pay some bills and we'll be right back. You mentioned alliances.

594
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: You mentioned relationships. That is such a recurring theme throughout

595
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: the book and in my work, I do a lot

596
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: of coaching around negotiation, salary negotiation, compensation package negotiation, negotiation.

597
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: And I know they're so sick of me talking about

598
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: how important relationships are just to your you know, your

599
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 1: overall earning's ability and your ability to negotiate from a strong,

600
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: you know, place of leverage. And I was excited to

601
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: see how much in your book relationship building was a

602
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: strategy forget about blueprints and permits, and all that you

603
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: were like really working hard to build your network in

604
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: New York. Can you talk to me about how you

605
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: went about doing that and and like any advice you

606
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: have for our listeners who are struggling with that part

607
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: building a name for themselves.

608
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, building uh relationships is extremely important and I think

609
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 2: it's important to build them even before you need them.

610
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: That part, yeah, and and and all of that goes

611
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: into building your name. You know, my grandparents lived off

612
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: of the four piece, which was for perseverance, persistence, with parentness,

613
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: and purpose. And then I would always add the fifth P,

614
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 2: which is prayer.

615
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: Okay, prayer. I was thinking people profit prayer, Okay, very

616
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: good prayer.

617
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: You know, going out and two events every evening after

618
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: working all day is not easy, but it's something that

619
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: you have to do because you don't know who that

620
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: one person you're gonna meet at an event of five

621
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: hundred people that's going to help you and take you

622
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 2: to the next level. But I can say that every

623
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: time there's been a change or an elevation in mciswick,

624
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 2: it's all come through people. It's come through that one

625
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: or two people that I met somewhere who wanted to

626
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 2: give me an opportunity and help me in some way,

627
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: and so I think that is extremely important. I think

628
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: the other thing that builds your name is integrity, and

629
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 2: that is, you know, underpromising and over delivering. You have

630
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: to be We had to be on budget. We had

631
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 2: to complete our projects on time, no matter what, to

632
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: working around the clock, making sure that everything you submit

633
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: is excellent. All of these things actually matter in the

634
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: scheme of things. Because we're reading my book, there are

635
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 2: people who try to cut corners.

636
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, the body count in your book is Quieigh. You

637
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: tell a story about one person and it's like, well,

638
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: they were found victed, they were found.

639
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 2: Corrupt, are in jail. Anyway, I'm just moving along right,

640
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: and so the cream does rise to the top. But

641
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: you have to always do the right thing. You have

642
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: to always think about, Okay, I'm receiving a million dollar

643
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: payment and only one hundred thousand is really mine. The

644
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: rest is for subcontractors, and they need to be paid immediately.

645
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: And so we make sure we pay our subcontractors as

646
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: fast as we can, even if we have to advance them,

647
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: because we're only as good as they are, you know,

648
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: we have to rely to them on them to come

649
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 2: to the job to actually build things, and so it's

650
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: important I think that you know relationships. I agree with you, okay,

651
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: one hund.

652
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: And you also had that incredible training growing up being

653
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: a kid at the dinner table among all the grown ups,

654
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: being a kid at those like these amazing lake these

655
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: like lakeside late night parties you would talk about and

656
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: like that your family would have. You'd all be together,

657
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: mixed mixed ages and stuff. And I think like you

658
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: developed probably such a fluency and human like relationships and communication,

659
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, And then by the time you were in

660
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: that position to lead at Mechissic and Meckissic, I can

661
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: see how you had that. Did you feel like, Okay,

662
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: this is like all these years of having like the

663
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: gift of gad and watching my parents interact with their

664
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: clients their friends, Like, that's such a skill set that

665
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: it's hard to teach. Like when you know, if you

666
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: just keep your head down in your books and you're

667
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: focused on your work, it's really hard to teach that

668
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: secret sauce of human relationship building. Can you see how

669
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: that was like building for you at from a young age?

670
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: You know, yes, I think, but all of a sudden

671
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: one day, it's like a wave comes over you and

672
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 2: you're like everything's coming together all at once, and you

673
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: can't believe it. You're like, I'm comfortable with who I am.

674
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: I'm comfortable with what I'm saying and what I represent

675
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: other people. You know, I don't have any fear of

676
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 2: other people and what they think about me. I don't

677
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: have a problem being the only woman, are the only

678
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 2: black woman in the room. I know that I have

679
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: something to contribute, but it comes over time. You know.

680
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: I'll never forget my second husband, after like fifteen sixteen

681
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: years of running my business in New York City, he

682
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: goes to an event with me, and I was so

683
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: used to running up people. Hi, my name is Cheryl

684
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: mckiss it, and here's what my company does. And you know, what,

685
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: what do you do? You know, I'm running up to everybody.

686
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: And he finally says, Cheryl, I think everybody knows. You

687
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: don't think you have to run up to them anymore.

688
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 2: Just try it, And I'm like, Okay, I'm never bringing

689
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 2: him to another event again.

690
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: That's why he was number two. We had to get

691
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: through some riff raff. Cheryl, where are you finding these men?

692
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: Well, he was right. The next event I went to,

693
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: I did not run up to anybody, and people did

694
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: make their way to me, because you know it is

695
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: it can be a little uncomfortable in the beginning when

696
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: you're the only black woman and you see five hundred

697
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: suits of those men, white men, and so what do

698
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: you do? They know each other, they're speaking to each other.

699
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: So how do you get yourself to be relevant in

700
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: the room. And the way I did it is I

701
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: would go up and just say hello, but I'd have

702
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: to talk myself into it. Cheryl, you aren't going to

703
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 2: go over and say hello right now to somebody, and

704
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: I would force it, and I did that for years.

705
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: I love that anecdote in the book because this is

706
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: a strategy that I use. I'm very introverted. I have

707
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: social anxiety. What I love showing I know, I know,

708
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: And I love showing up early because it's quiet. You

709
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: can get a feel of the room. I want to

710
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: know where my exits are, where's the bathroom, where is

711
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: everything going to be set up? And then it's easier

712
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: to strike up a conversation when it's just a few people.

713
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: But then in this one party you go to, you

714
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: get a tap on the shoulder and it's Michael Bloomberg,

715
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: who's just like hey, And that strategy really benefits you,

716
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: you know, I wonder, you know, and I don't know.

717
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: I'm not in a I'm not a CEO of a

718
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: major construction firm. Going to these I have such a privilege.

719
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: I get to talk to people who look like us

720
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: every day. It's the best. I'm spoiled for it. My

721
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 1: tolerance for white men talking nonsense to me is very

722
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: low now it's dangerously low. But so being in those spaces,

723
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, you talk about like having to build up

724
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: that confidence in yourself and who you are and what

725
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: you have to offer. But can we talk about as

726
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 1: you're collecting or building these relationships with with white men,

727
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, prominent white men in your field, to start

728
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: to who maybe doubt you in the beginning and you

729
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 1: kind of have to work over that hope with them

730
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: and not take it too personally. Can you talk about then,

731
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: like the meaningful mentorship that you were able to get

732
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: out of, like investing in these relationships and kind of

733
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: proving yourself.

734
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so the you know, what's interesting is

735
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: the very organization that I said I went to and

736
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: there were five hundred suits. It was the New York

737
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 2: Building Congress. And you know, I used to think I

738
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: am never going to make it anywhere in this organization

739
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: because I just don't fit in that same organization. Now

740
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 2: I am interviewing to be chair of well thirty years later, wow, okay.

741
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 2: And so I have had six or seven interviews with men,

742
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: all white men that I have built relationships with over

743
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: the last thirty years, and the response was just so

744
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly positive. And you know, one of them even said

745
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: to me, well, I don't know why we didn't do

746
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: this a long time ago. So you know, there becomes

747
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: there comes a time where you developed that mutual respect

748
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 2: and I think that's you know, what I was able

749
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: to do with a lot of my peers, and it's

750
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 2: a very good it's a very good feeling to know

751
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: that they see me in that light and that over

752
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 2: the years, you know, we may have had our run ins.

753
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: You know, I may have had to have my black

754
00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: girl moment to get somebody straight okay now, but it

755
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: ended up opening up their eyes, showing them their blind spots,

756
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: and changing them in a sense.

757
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, We're going to take a quick break

758
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 1: pay some bills and we'll be right back. I would

759
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: love nothing more for them to be a black female

760
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: chair of an organization like that. In twenty twenty five,

761
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, you talk about the importance of that designation

762
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: Minority and Women Owned Business an Enterprise WMBE in New York.

763
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: You know, even when I was launching Brown Ambition and

764
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: then my coaching practice, I went through the application process

765
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: for MWBE and at the time I didn't know it

766
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 1: was well maybe it wasn't at the time, but certainly

767
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: since Trump has had his second term, you see this

768
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: like shifting energy toward programs like that and now DEI

769
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: of it all. Obviously they're trying to dismantle every diversity

770
00:47:55,000 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: you know, and inclusion organization and program. Can you talk

771
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: a little bit about how is it for you having

772
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: benefited from this program also having witnessed the abuse of

773
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: this program. You talk about the number of companies that

774
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: were pretending to have a whim, a woman or a

775
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: minority you know, leader at the top to take advantage

776
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: of this program. But how do we prevent programs like

777
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 1: this from going away? Like what can we do? Will

778
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: this chair position give you a little bit more power?

779
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 1: In the room to stop that so that more women

780
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: in minority owned businesses, you know, are able to access

781
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: opportunities to stick around.

782
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: So I don't believe these programs are going to go

783
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: away because it's so much needed, and I think there

784
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: are more people that want these programs then don't want them.

785
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: I just think we have an administration that is trying

786
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: to impose their will on the minority because the majority

787
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 2: of people, I think understand why we need diversity, and

788
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: they want diversity, and it just so happens that in

789
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: New York we're encapsulated here and our programs are probably

790
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 2: going to stay intact because there are state and city programs.

791
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: I have to say, I'm a little bit concerned. We

792
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 2: expanded our company to Orlando, Florida, probably about three or

793
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: four years ago, and we were certified as a minority

794
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: woman owned business. They are the Airport of Florida is

795
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: trying to get a grant from the federal government for

796
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: their capital program and they were told if they have

797
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 2: a DEI program, they would not be able to get

798
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: the funds, and so Florida suspended their MWBE program just

799
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 2: like that. Just like that, and Orlando, which is you know,

800
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 2: a blue city. You know, they're they're clear that they

801
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 2: don't want to get rid of it, but they need

802
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: the money. So, you know, I look at New York

803
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 2: and I look at New York City and state and

804
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: how much money we get from the federal government, and

805
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 2: so that concerns me. You know, we we have we

806
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: generate our own. Our our state budget is two hundred

807
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: and fifty one billion.

808
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 4: Okay, we schederate a lot of money on our own,

809
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 4: but we still rely on the federal government for our

810
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 4: transportation systems, you know, for the Gateway project, which is a.

811
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 2: Tunnel between New York and Jersey. It's just so many

812
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: things are airports, and so we'll see what happens. You know,

813
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: I feel like people are just trying to hold on,

814
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: hold on to a remnant of what's it's been like

815
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: to try and get through this administration.

816
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: It's been a long year.

817
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: I know, what's happening once is what makes you fearful

818
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 2: of what could happen over the next. Yeah, three months.

819
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: You're in the position where you have you have Claude

820
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: and worked your way so hard for so long to

821
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: establish Meckisic and Machissic to like be in a stable place.

822
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: You talk about and thank you also for your transparency.

823
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: You know, you're talking about your you know, stressing about

824
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: that call from your banker and like having to get

825
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: lines of credit and dealing with like the financial stressors

826
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: of running this corporation. But you also talk about you know,

827
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 1: you're you're in a position where you're feeling more stable,

828
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: you're looking toward growth and diversifying the business even further.

829
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: Do you feel a little bit inoculated from what's happening

830
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: like that, for example, in Florida with them doing away

831
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: with that program, or is machisic and machistic going to

832
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: be okay?

833
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna be okay. Yes, you know what

834
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: if people really want to do D E and on,

835
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 2: they're they're gonna shift and call it something else. You know,

836
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: they're still going to do it. And there's plenty of

837
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 2: people out there. Yeah, as far as New York, which

838
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: is our you know, our home, our foundation, our this

839
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: is everything, our corporate headquarters. Like I said, we haven't

840
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: seen it yet. We haven't seen it. I don't know

841
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 2: what's going to happen here. But I can say that

842
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 2: our projects are so long term, so let's take JFK

843
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,479
Speaker 2: Terminal one. We've been on that product. They need it. Honey.

844
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to hear something's happening. It's hard to

845
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: say I agree with Trump on something, but it is giving.

846
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's getting better at We got to first

847
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: phase in twenty twenty six, and then Phase B will

848
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: go on till I think twenty twenty nine, and so

849
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 2: our projects are so long term that I feel that

850
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 2: we will be okay under this administration.

851
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: This might be a weird pivot, but I've been dying

852
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: to ask you. I'm I think all the girls are

853
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: obsessed with the Gilded Age right now? Have you watched

854
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: or are you a fan?

855
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: I love it? Do you? Yes? You know they just hadn't.

856
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: I'm only on season two. But you know Peggy Scott,

857
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: the black journalist character played by the Dinner, You know,

858
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: she goes to Tuskegee University and I think she's covering

859
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: the opening of their dormitory. And I just thought Mackissic

860
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: and Mackissic was there, like.

861
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 2: I was waiting. I was like, is there a machistic?

862
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: Is there a character? Is there going to be portrayed?

863
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: Is there a Moses somewhere.

864
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: Well, if Chan, my pr consultant is here, is she

865
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: she would love for me to have a cameo. Oh

866
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: would you put the coursing on? Come on now with

867
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 2: that busto?

868
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 1: Do a cameo with the booty bump, the booty whatever

869
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: they put in their dress.

870
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 2: Oh god, that was terrible. I hate those things. Yeah.

871
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: I think that show was very different, and the women

872
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: have prominence in the show, so I really like it.

873
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: I thought about you too also when they reveal the

874
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: engineer behind the Brooklyn Bridge as a woman.

875
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah, And I.

876
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: Was like, wait is that true. I'm like, learn of

877
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 1: my histories. But yeah, it's good to know. Okay, you're

878
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: also a fan.

879
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm at AIG fan. It feels like there's.

880
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,720
Speaker 1: Mechistic and mechistic angle here, Like you know, maybe maybe

881
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: maybe HBO will give you a call. All right now,

882
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about like this this.

883
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: You know, the past ten years or so with you know,

884
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: you've had some you've run into some health scare as well.

885
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: I don't know how long ago it was that you

886
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: had a stroke in the middle of your very busy

887
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: work day. How are you doing today and how are

888
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: you taking care of yourself?

889
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 2: Well, very good question. So you know, they never really

890
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: could tell me what caused my stroke. It was a

891
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 2: shower of clots to the brain, but it was assumed

892
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 2: it came from my bicuspic bow in my heart, which

893
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: over time continued to calcify, especially during COVID and so

894
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 2: on February twenty fifth, I had open heart surgery to

895
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 2: yes to replace that vow and repair my order which

896
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 2: had turned into a order aneurysm.

897
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: Bored. Okay, so is this the cracker my dad had

898
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: open heart surgery?

899
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: Is at the full?

900
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: Oh that's a rough recovery.

901
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it wasn't as bad as I thought

902
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 2: it was going to be. You know, I was at

903
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 2: the hospital in five days and the technology, I think

904
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 2: is just superb. And you know, I was back to

905
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 2: working out with my trainer probably three months later. So

906
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: my recovery was was you know, it wasn't great, but

907
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 2: it wasn't bad mm hmm.

908
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: And it was something that you knew was going to

909
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: eventually going to have to happen.

910
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 2: Yes, I knew it was eventually going to have to happen.

911
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 2: And you know, now my doctor says, I'm repaired for life.

912
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 2: So I'm happy about that. Bless Yeah.

913
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 1: And do you think you're seeing what your dad went through?

914
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: Did that because you knew immediately, like the symptoms you

915
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: were feeling, you had really high blood pressure that day,

916
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: you were even at your doctor's office.

917
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: That went to that same day and that morning blood.

918
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: Pressure is a little high. Leave fine. You know you're

919
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: you're being whisked from event to event in the city

920
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden your arm goes limp. Yes,

921
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: thank god that you knew what was that based on

922
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: what you experienced with your dad or just like your

923
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: own knowledge. How you know your husband at that time,

924
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: he's a he's a doctor.

925
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: But my husband always said, you know, watch the watch

926
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: out for this if this happens, you know, with respect

927
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 2: to your mother, never thinking it was me. Oh yeah.

928
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: And so when it happened to me, I'm like, oh

929
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: my god, I'm having a stroke. And I called him

930
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: and he said, stop playing, Like why I am having

931
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 2: a stroke. Are you sure you weren't just leaning on

932
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: your arm? Oh come on now, I am on my

933
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 2: way to emergency room.

934
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: I'm so amazed that you just stuck with it too,

935
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: because you know, it's not uncommon for women to experience

936
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: these symptoms and then to discount them or ignore them

937
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: or just say, oh, it's just whatever, and then you

938
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: end up hearing these horrible stories of how they pass

939
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: away or you know, or worse.

940
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 2: Right, and they lingering symptoms from from the stroke. But

941
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 2: because I got to the hospital so fast, ten or

942
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, you know, they were able to give me

943
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 2: the TPA that dissolves all plots. They have to do that,

944
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 2: I think within the first hour or two were to

945
00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: be effective. And then you know, all the feeling came

946
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 2: back in my arm and I had one hundred percent recovery. Incredible, incredible.

947
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad that's that's your mama's jeans pulling through.

948
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: And I know, and I think I talked about my neurologist,

949
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 2: another blood.

950
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: The woman, Yes, tell me about her a fabulous.

951
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 2: So she was on the phone with her intern when

952
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 2: I was in the emergency room and my blood pressure

953
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 2: was extremely high, and so they had to get my

954
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 2: blood pressure down before they give you the TPA because

955
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: your vessels, your blood vessels could actually burst from from

956
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 2: the pressure, and so mine was just borderline. And my

957
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: husband looked at me. He's like, yeah, you gotta do it.

958
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 2: But Carol and Brocketon. Brockington was on the phone, and

959
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 2: you know, she was telling this intern stuff by step

960
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, whoever he's talking to, she knows

961
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 2: exactly what she's talking about. I had no idea was

962
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 2: a black woman. I'm thinking, I didn't even know it

963
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 2: was a woman. All I knew is the doctor on

964
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 2: the other end of his of the phone was sharp

965
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 2: and on top of everything. So when I came to

966
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: a couple of days later and she came to visit

967
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: in walks this fly fly woman. I mean she is

968
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 2: dressed to the nines. She has lace gloves on, black

969
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: lace gloves on with her rings old top.

970
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: I was like, what in the Gray's Anatomy is this character?

971
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: And I'm like, it's somebody coming to visit me, and

972
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 2: that's my doctor. I just love her anything, you know.

973
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: You sell your doctor today, y'all have check ups or

974
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: anything like that or just.

975
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 2: Yet, No, not anymore, not anymore. But recently I heard

976
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: someone who you know, had say who had a stroke

977
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 2: who ended up in her care and I'm like, well,

978
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: I know they're doing okay.

979
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: Yes, I always love those encounters. Yeah, you know, the

980
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: whole word minority. I'm really I've been like, I'm tired

981
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: of the word minority. I want us to be called rare.

982
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: We're just like rare gems flirting out here. When you

983
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: come across a rare diamond, you don't call it a

984
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: minority diamond, right, It's a rare diamond, you know, right,

985
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: You're right, You're right. And that's why I was really

986
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: towards the end of the book. You know, you're talking

987
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: about your legacy now and mentoring young people, and you've

988
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: been visiting your alma mater. But to sort of wrap

989
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: this conversation up, what would you like to say to

990
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: the next generation coming up? You know, unfortunately not all

991
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: of us come from fifth generation legacy businesses and the

992
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: way that you do. We may be looking to build

993
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: our own.

994
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 2: Though, absolutely, Yeah, absolutely.

995
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Any like parting words or advice.

996
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say everybody has a legacy

997
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: and you can create your own. If you don't know,

998
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: everyone should do a family tree, even if it starts

999
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: with just you and your parents. I would assume you

1000
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 2: know your parents, but maybe you don't, but you'll know

1001
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: your children. Yeah, And pass it down because there's something

1002
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 2: to be said about knowing where you came from. And

1003
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,439
Speaker 2: if you start with the information you do know, over

1004
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 2: time you'll start feeling out the information that you don't know.

1005
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:43,439
Speaker 2: And so I think that's a major takeaway from from

1006
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 2: this book that that's what got me excited around them.

1007
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 2: Macisic story, and that is my grandmother had a family tree,

1008
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 2: and I took that family tree and I filled it

1009
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 2: out with my generation and the generation after me.

1010
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: Oh amazing. So where does that live? Is it literally

1011
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: just like a picture?

1012
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, well, yeah, I have lost it

1013
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: several times. I have it again.

1014
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: I mean, and then you say, moment for the artwork

1015
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 1: in the book, because you have some really if you're

1016
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube. I loved getting the surprise of like

1017
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: seeing these full colored paintings and portrayals of your family.

1018
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: So these were are these paintings of photographs that you

1019
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: guys commissioned?

1020
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were photographs that my father had and you know,

1021
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 2: he restored the photographs and they painted them.

1022
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful, What a great gift.

1023
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about, what's that that's my father's work? Yeah?

1024
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: Oh, they're just yeah, I mean they it's it's lovely,

1025
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: and then you get to sort of like add the

1026
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: color and add the hues, and I think that's amazing.

1027
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: That's a great part in gifts. And I think it's

1028
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,919
Speaker 1: really women. Women in my family too, are the ones

1029
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: holding the family trees and really caring about that and

1030
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 1: caring about the stories. Yes, I'm got me call my

1031
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: ant Brenda right quick, by the way.

1032
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 2: Right and find out this guy is your family.

1033
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: I know she has it somewhere. She's been working on it.

1034
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: She's like, somebody please help me with this. But Cheryl

1035
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: mckissic Daniel, I just want to say thank you for

1036
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: being so generous with your time, with all the glitches

1037
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 1: and all that we got through it. I knew you were.

1038
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is a CEO. She is going to

1039
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: be able to handle this. It's handled. Congratulations on the book.

1040
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: Everybody go get your copy again. Holding it up here, Well,

1041
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: don't worry.

1042
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 2: Listen.

1043
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: I wish you could see my background right now. I am,

1044
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: I'm in I'm under construction of my new office, is

1045
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,439
Speaker 1: what I know. But it's really annoying background. The black

1046
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: family who built America, the Machissics, two centuries of daring pioneers.

1047
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: My guest today has been Cheryl McKissick Daniel. Thank you

1048
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: so so much. Be well and thank you for sharing

1049
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: your story with us. Thank you, Okay v a fan,

1050
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this week's show.

1051
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: I want to shout out to our production team, Courtney,

1052
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: our editor, Carla, our fearless leader for idea to launch productions.

1053
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 1: I want to shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and

1054
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: Cameron McNair for helping me put the show together. It

1055
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: is not a one person project, as much as I

1056
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: have tried to make it so these past ten years.

1057
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: I need help, y'all, and thank goodness I've been able

1058
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: to put this team around me to support me on

1059
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: this journey and to y'all bea fam I love you.

1060
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 2: So so, so so much.

1061
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to

1062
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes,

1063
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:42,959
Speaker 1: our tenth year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,

1064
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: talk to you SOONBA guy