WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Sananda Maitreya Part 1 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:08.280 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:11.360 Okay, I'm gonna try. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:15.280 To not geek out as I normally do in these introductions, 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:16.880 but and I will. 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.759 Also try to hide my abundant enthusiasm before talking to 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.440 such a killer of culture. 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.120 As just know, it is so weird that our very 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:30.560 first exchange is going to be in front of millions 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.159 of people. I will try to keep my composure of 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:39.360 my professionalism. All right, ladies and gentlemen of Questlove World listenership. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.480 This is one of those air quote dreams come true 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:49.600 moments for this podcast. Our guest today has a profound 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:56.560 effect all my life, ever since his nineteen eighty seven debut, 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:02.040 which yielded five singles that propelled him to the top 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:06.240 of the charts. And it can't be overstated how impressionable 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.280 he was to me in my life at that particular time, 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.440 because I was just about to graduate high school and 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:14.480 I was deciding for myself, like what is it that 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.679 I want to do with my life? And clearly I 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.320 didn't want to live my dad's dream of you know, 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.679 respectable politics and entering the world of classical music. But 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.200 reading our guests mind blowing interviews and mind you Like, 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.080 you know, a lot of my idols and hip hop 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.200 really weren't given the platform of a village voice, or 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.800 of a spin magazine or of a rolling Stone. So 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.959 reading his mind blowing interviews really had an effect on me. 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.559 Reading his lyrics had an effect, watching and perform Hearing 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:48.680 him sing had an effect his arrangements, his production and fun. Fact, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:50.880 a lot of you are going to be mind blowing. 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:56.920 That are Roots fans. His liner notes, okay, his liner notes, credits, yes, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.320 credits and liner notes. I literally didn't know that these 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.600 food delivery box could be an instrument, like so just 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.240 his sixth sense of humor in music and on his 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.760 line like literally longtime Roots fans who still to this day, 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:16.160 despite the fact that I've written eight and I'm plugging 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.520 My hip Hop's History came out last week, but my 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.320 eight New York Times bestsellers, despite the fact that I 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:26.359 have eight books, Roots fans complain to this day that 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.360 and despite the fact that there are no more tangible 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.720 well not no more, but you know, tangible objects like 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.280 cassettes or LPs or CDs or a trex is not 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.240 the primary way that we consume music. To this day, 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.799 they still ridicule me for not doing epic liner notes, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:48.360 not knowing that our guess is single handedly responsible for 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.040 that side of my life. Yeah, I'll definitely say forty 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.160 percent responsible. I don't want to dismiss you. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.680 I have to cut you off now before you You're 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:57.680 embarrassed both of us. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:59.400 No, no, man, let me, let me. 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.600 Let me just gonna get to the end, because I 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:06.680 know when love is projected, we somehow try to avoid it, 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.720 like the Matrix. I get it, and if the other 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.360 Team Supreme people were here right now, they do the 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:13.920 same to me. 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:15.480 But I think it's important. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.880 That we give flowers and really show respect to the gods. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.839 So I really appreciate that. 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:25.279 But literally, because I was aware of his life transformation 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.480 after his first five records, it wasn't until D'Angelo and 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.760 I were making Black Messiah around like twenty eleven, twenty 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.640 twelve that D'Angelo will hit me to the fact that 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:41.720 I missed like seven or eight albums and not believing 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.320 what I heard, I pulled my phone out and realized 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:49.040 the mountain of music I missed, and I have not 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.080 been the same ever since. I have always wanted to 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:57.119 say this, Welcome to quest love supreme. Wow, Sanata Matreya, 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.600 thank you so much for doing this. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.600 Thank you for having us. And also let me say 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:06.680 that we're basically two geeks speaking to each other because 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.880 a lot of what makes us, speaking of us both 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:17.960 collectively what we are is that particular attention to detail 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:22.320 that being a geek bestows upon you, because when you're 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.440 a geek, it means that you're paying attention to extra 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.280 things that others are not. And then when you have 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.640 a chance to contribute yourself. I mean, I often have 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.599 said to people if I write certain things, while I 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.240 do a certain things a certain way, I said, these 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:39.240 are for the people who. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:39.599 Are like me. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.600 When I could thrill a second engineer on a Stevie 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.880 Wonder record when I met him like fifteen years later, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.839 because I actually knew who he was by his name, okay, 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:53.880 and the fact that you knew what Stevie record it 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.320 was and everything, and they were like so thrilled. It's like, Wow, 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.880 what a gift to give back to someone simply because 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:04.720 I was a kid like you who devoured everything. Okay. 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.159 I feel a p Funk record if it was a 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.039 Beatles record, didn't matter. If I got for me, the 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.640 only thing I missed about the old vinyl days, really 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:17.479 is this artwork space. Yes, you know, the presentation. You 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.239 had to make a title, you know, and bring a 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:25.799 completely different stamp on the world before. Unfortunately, we began 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.799 to put thoughts in your head as to the context 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.880 of the song by the videos, Whereas once upon a time, 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.480 it was the song meant what whatever it triggered in 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.040 your imagination, that was the video that was created. 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.240 But oh yes, I want to share something with you 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.520 that I don't think the world news and I can't 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.040 say her name properly, but there's an artist right now, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:55.839 a very significant artist who is held back releasing videos, yes, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.760 or a particular album, an emic album. And I found 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:05.360 out maybe four months ago, went to go see this 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.640 particular artist in concert, said how great the show was, 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:15.359 and noticed that I saw certain visual clips that weren't 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.719 out in the world. And this artist tells me, hey, 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.719 you know, you're actually partly responsible for this, and I 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.400 was like, what do you mean. So when this artist 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.839 released a record, I said, you know what I love 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:35.600 about this album is that because there were no videos initially, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.000 because of course I thought there was going to be 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.599 an onslaught of videos that I said. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:40.600 It took me back to. 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.000 The time where I explained to this artist when the 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:48.159 album came out that I had a when Stevie Wonder's 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.360 Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants came out that 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.080 for me was my dark side of the moon. Like 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.159 my dad hated that record, so he was like, here, 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.120 you take it, and I took it, put the headphones 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.599 on and just closed my eyes and imagined, you know, 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.559 and basically said that I don't want videos for songs 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.160 in the Key Life or any of Stevie Wonder's seventies 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.240 records because in my mind, I have a picture of 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:17.040 what I see, yes, because synaesthesia is real, and I, 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.480 you know, I was just making a passing comment that, 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.480 you know, it's great to experience this record without the 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:23.440 videos telling me. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.400 What to think. And I didn't know that I held 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:27.080 that much weight. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:32.280 And I guess on the ride home that must have 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.840 been a straw that broke the camel's back to say, hey, 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.280 we're gonna not release videos because I want people to 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:40.200 experience the music. 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:45.520 And I remember getting Journey Through the Secret Life of 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:48.440 Plans as a Christmas present one year from my aunt 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:54.320 who worked in sears so yes, and so she got 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.800 it for me. And I remember I was just on 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:58.760 the cusp where I was allowed to listen to stuff 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.600 inside the house that wasn't gospel. But I remember going 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.680 out to our car and with my littc casette and 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.800 just playing it because I absolutely I mean, if it's 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.200 not clear, it should be that Stevie was one of 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.600 the absolute pillars of my entire consciousness as a musician, 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.480 as an artist, as anything that I perceived myself to be. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.800 He and the Beatles are kind of just right there 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.440 at the foundation of how I started to envision music. 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:34.520 So I loved that album saying well, you Loe, that 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:39.320 doesn't mean And the thing about Stevee was he was 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.680 like the Beatles were for me. He was a master 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:46.880 class in all of it, songs, arrangements, instrumentation, He was 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.360 a master orchestrator, Like they told him this motherfucker. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:50.520 You know. 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:55.280 And it was like just the way he brought further 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:59.719 dimension of consciousness into the music, just by his understanding 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:04.160 of sounds and how sounds trigger us alone, it's just 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.320 not enough it's spoken about that. Sometimes I wish our 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.720 brother Stevie was was white, just so that he would 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.880 get much more intellectual appreciation. Yes, you know, because he 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.200 really the only peers for me he had on the 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:22.000 level that he existed was the Beatles, was like Brian Wilson, 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:27.319 like these these extremely rare contemporaries who are like the Schubert, Beethoven, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.560 Mozarts of their time. You know. So I'm with you all. 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.800 It's interesting that we have that journey through the secret 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.839 life of plans connection. And also before we travel further, 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.839 I want to thank you so much for just your 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.240 contribution that you've made since the roots and since first 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.480 coming out and just expanding your whole empire of consciousness 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.560 onto you know what for me culminated in this Oscar 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.800 that you I was so happy that you won and 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.120 you make such a memorable year as well. 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:01.440 Yeah, that there's a life changing year for me, man, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.520 because I really appreciated. 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.000 You know. One of my claims to Pride is that 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.120 I was born the same day as Sly, So you know, 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.360 I remember Ifroen Prince saying, you fuck are you're born 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.800 the same You and Slive born the same day. You 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:17.560 know what I said? 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:18.000 You do that? 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.439 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. No, I'm not sure if 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:23.360 Sly knew it. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.120 No, no, no, but Prince knew that. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:25.760 Yeah. 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.320 Oh okay, wait, I gotta ask one question. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.680 There's so much I want to learn about your story 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.520 and your journey, but I've been dying to ask you 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.120 this question for at least three decades. 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.440 Okay, yes, and you already mentioned his name, so I 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:40.199 had to ask. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:47.640 Okay, February of nineteen eighty eight, mm h, you are 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.560 about to walk on stage. Yes, And Smokey Robinson's in 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:56.800 the audience, Stevie wonders in the audience, Bono's in the audience. 0:10:58.320 --> 0:10:59.679 Michael's in the front row. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.240 With the red fucking jacket that you couldn't miss if 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.359 you were Stevie wonder Yes. 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:07.240 Princes in the front row. 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.240 I think that's the first time where I tried to 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:16.280 like channel vicariously. How does a person give a pitch 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:22.640 perfect performance when literally the pillars of gods are literally 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.400 like in the first three rows watching you. And the 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.600 thing is is that I know Michael has an attitude 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.600 because like that was also a weird night for him. Yeah, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.280 that was sort of the very that was the seed 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:39.040 of the beginning of yeah, his you know, his future 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:40.400 and also. 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.520 The beginning of mine. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:44.240 In soundcheck. 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.120 I always wanted to know this because when I do 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.719 award shows and I go soundcheck, you know, they put 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:53.280 those big giant cards on the chairs and you see name, name, name, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.720 So when you're sound checking, you see, like, who's going 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:57.440 to be watching you? 0:11:58.240 --> 0:11:59.960 Because you still gave a pitch perfect before? 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:01.240 Thank you? 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.120 What was that day like or was it just so 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.319 numbing that it wasn't a footnote for you at all? 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:07.079 Or well? 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:08.880 First of all, the thing is is that at some 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:16.440 point you do feel that parallel realities are real. 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:17.640 You know. 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.800 I used to explain at the very beginning what freaked 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.560 people out most around me was that I had told 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.040 them exactly what was going to happen, and it did 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.880 because I had this sense even then that what I 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.080 was going to do I had already done. But this 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.160 was just kind of a time shift. Or because this 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.840 dimension is at a slower rate of frequency than the 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.600 dimension in which I've already done this, it just takes 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.560 time to manifest. But I just had this but I've 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.480 done this already attitude that informed so much of where 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.280 I was coming from. And I say that because sometimes 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.120 I mean still to this day, I can be in 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:05.560 the vocable singing, and I have this almost outer body 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:10.680 experience where I hear that the voice isn't coming from me, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:17.400 it's coming through me. And I'm basically literally capable of 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.400 standing in that space where I can see the difference 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.920 between something that originates from you and something you're just 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:29.839 bearing witness to as a witness to a process. And 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.160 a lot of times that happens when it seems like 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.520 the reality that you're about to walk into is already 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.160 so surreal that you might as well just have that 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.080 kind of other dimensional experience. I said, say this, you 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.600 grew up watching the Grammys. You grew up dreaming that 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.080 one day would be you okay, and then but what 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.840 you didn't dream is that damn there, like you said, 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.480 every one of your like heroes and this in the 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.680 front row. And at least it distracted you from the 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.360 millions and millions and millions of people who are watching it. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.959 That was like the good thing they distract you from it. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.640 But during the sound check and what have you, I 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.120 just don't pay that much attention to those things. I 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.120 really don't. I focus out, I get my game head together. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.960 I understand what I have to do, and I know 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.280 what I have to do to achieve that level. And 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:21.920 one of the things that I did have to do 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:23.960 was I always shut people out before the gig. I 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.360 never saw anyone before a gig, and of course you 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.800 get a reputation that people don't understand as being aloof 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.440 for arrogant or whatever. You med meditation, Yeah, to put yourself, 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.960 put your game face on, getting that zone, call your 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.640 spirit together and all of that. But here's the secret 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:44.160 is the killer. Fortunately that gig was in between a 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.440 tour that we were doing anyway, we were already touring 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:54.040 the States, and before I left London, a fan of 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.760 mine from California had said, I'm going to be like 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.280 shipping you something that will be waiting for you when 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.960 you get to whatever. My first destination was Miami or 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:11.000 Orlando or some Daytona, Florida, Okay. And so I got there, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.480 which is where I took the band to do production mirossalsuse. 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.600 I grew up in the Daytona Beach area and I 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.240 wanted to return there for production mirousals for the American tour. 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.000 And so when I got there to Daytona Beach, what 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.600 was waiting for me but a nice stick packet of shrooms. Okay. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.640 So I took the schedule, which I remember was forty dates, 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.680 and I picked about eight to a dozen, eight to 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.000 a dozen that I'm gonna do shroom here, I'm gonna 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.400 do it shroom here, I'm gonna do air. And it 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.600 was like it was just a crazy great experience. And 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.720 I had no intention of doing that that night, But 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.800 when I was sitting in the audience and I could 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:53.400 see all the silhouettes and all people in front of 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.280 me and just the spectacle that it was, I just 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.920 thought I should be high. I mean, this is not right, 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.240 and I'm just being honest. I was never like a 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.480 cocaine guy or heroin guy. I was. I was in 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.560 the like even as a child. I understood if it 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.960 kind of gave you a different perspective on some shit. 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.240 I think it brings you closer to God personally. Yeah, 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.920 I'm a new microducer. I started microducing, and like before 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.760 twenty twenty nothing, I didn't drink, none of that stuff. 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.200 And then you know, once I started meditating and all 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.720 that shit, you know what I mean, Like I started yeah, microdocing. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.240 So as I was getting closer to being called if 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.320 I'm not mistaken, I think even Madam Whitney performed that 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.560 night okay mistaken. It was just an onslaught of like 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.000 just genius bitches. And I was like, okay, look. I 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.320 turned to my baby mama, my English daughter, Sarahina, and 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.880 I say to her, yeah, hooked me up when of 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.880 them rooms buds right, because she she had brought a 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:00.120 few emergencies. Just break, just break emergency, I'm saying, and 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:01.720 I said, and she was like, looked at me, like, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:03.400 are you sure. I was like, no, no, no, give me. 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.280 So I took one, went to bathroom booming. Next thing, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.240 you know, I was able to get out of my 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.000 head and leave that performance because you know, it was 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.000 also important for me to address my the heroes that 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.879 were present, that this is the effect that you've had, This. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.440 Is what you dude. I said that. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.120 I said, Wow, I wonder if they're sitting there thinking 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.199 I felt this, No, but not that, but I felt like, 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.760 because the thing is, it's also your thing is so deep, 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.720 like it's not your version of the microphone tricks, isn't 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:42.679 James Brown's Joe text? Like literally, people don't know that 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.440 Joe Tech started that shit, Like the pioneer never gets 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.919 the credit there's always the second person that sees it 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:48.879 and perfects it. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.800 Yeah, and James Brown is world famous for his. 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.040 Derivative borrowing, but you know, yeah, he's still the god. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.240 But even to the level where you started doing a 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.280 microphone like in your history of performance, I was like, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:09.160 oh wow, he even knows Joe Texa's level of microphone mastery. 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.280 And a lot of that stuff is channeling really, because 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.600 it is a collective, whatever name one is comfortable giving 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.760 to it. You know, if I'm in a certain comfortable space, 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.280 I don't mind calling it the Holy Spirit, because ultimately 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.320 that's who I believe, That's who I know. I'm belonging 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.320 to the service of Okay, I do believe that many of 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.159 us artists, this is precisely why we're here. I mean, 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.240 I'm asked often, why are you so prolific or how 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.040 you create so easily? I said, that's a simple I've 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.600 never seen myself as separate from the music. I'm an 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.040 extension of the music. The music is not just a concept. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.399 It's a real spirit and it can create life, just 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.440 like a lot of other spirit has the power to 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:59.119 create life. So I just believe that I'm a form 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.639 of music. In a human life, and therefore there is 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.200 no separation between me and the mus and the music. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:09.399 It's just at one with my expression. And this is 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.679 basically what I've always known that I was in the 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.920 service off because I don't really believe all of these 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.080 gifts of mine. I believe that I have been, that 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.719 this is my Karmen, and this is my service, and 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.920 we're selected for our fidelity because everything that I have, 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.040 everything that I've endured and been able to endure with 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.680 whatever grace has been I've been able to summon from 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:38.520 the reservoir of mercy, is simply by understanding that you know, 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.480 I was taught in Sunday School seeking first the kingdom 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.320 of having in its righteousness, and all these things will 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.480 we added onto you. The way I've lived that, the 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.919 way I've interpreted that my life is the muse telling 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.200 me listen, is the deal you served first and foremost 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.560 to the utmost of your fidelity. You serve the music, 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.520 you serve the inspiration. Hear it that you're giving, and 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.800 we will look after your life. We will find the 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.200 right woman for you. We will find what you need 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.640 because we know what you need, and we know we're 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.119 not gonna give you more than you need to be 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.080 a distraction from the work that you're taken upon yourself 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:20.640 to do. So you know all of that's a part 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:22.439 of it, and you know that's that's what we're in 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.320 the service of. So basically, yeah, it's their moments. When 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:29.200 it's the same, it's like I rarely will drink or whatever, 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.520 but if I feel like I need, as any performer, 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.520 to drink, to take a shot of whiskey, to just 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.600 kind of like center myself in the in the purpose 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:39.800 thereof that you do what you gotta do. 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.239 For our listeners that are not aware. Where's your beginnings? Like, 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:50.440 where were you born? 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.480 I have the great great fortune of being stamped by 0:20:55.600 --> 0:21:00.199 arrival in the great Borough of Harlem, h and the 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.680 magnificent year of nineteen sixty two, the year of the 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.600 Fender Jaguar, the year of the New York Mets, the 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.000 year of the Rolling Stones. Okay, there you go, nineteen 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:13.080 sixty two, and then I was basically we were actually 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:17.439 from my people were from Newark. I also proudly claimed 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.760 that East Darns connection, because, as you would know, East 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.360 Starnes has produced an abundant amounts of bitches that were 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.639 like making sense, you know what I mean? Yes, I 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:33.000 think even Shaq Shaquille comes from Eastars And even my 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.359 mother's history is kind of wound around Madame dion Warwicks, 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.280 what could have been, what happened, what would happen if 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.119 type history. So we came from that area. But my 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:49.800 mother was the beloved eldest daughter of the big pastor 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:55.159 of Newark, the Pentecostal Church, and when basically my father 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.720 seduced her, you know, it was shame upon your family 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.479 and all that bullshit, and so basically she was kind 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.600 of banished to a cousin in Harlem who also knew 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:06.280 how to take care of her, to look after because 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.160 my mother's mother died when she was thirteen. So we 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.560 were banished into Harlem to live with a cousin, and 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.600 it was basically two years after that we moved back 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:22.040 to Jersey. So that's where I began. And I'm proud 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.679 to say I was born in Harlem because it's just 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:26.760 one of those vortexes on the earth that if you 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.320 have that fortune to be able to do something with 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.560 that stamp, you're a blessed person. 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:36.400 Indeed, what was your first musical memory in life the Beatles. 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.520 I was two years old, and it's the first not 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:46.080 only musical memory, it's my first memory. I would imagine 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:49.919 the thought. I almost vaguely think I remember a picture 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.400 of my father being banished from my life, my biological father, 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:55.720 But obviously I would have suppressed that if it was 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.720 a negative emotion. But at the age of two, I 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:06.600 remember she loved yeah, yeah, and oh you no no no, no, no, hope, 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:08.679 you don't understand. I want to hold your hand, and 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.520 she loves you. That that is the earliest memory I have, 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.200 and I just think it's so awesome that it was 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:19.480 a musical memory as well, because nothing you know that 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.040 that was the music that woke up my consciousness to 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.119 the fact that I was existing in that life. So 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:30.000 that was my first memory. I also remember seeing Breakfast 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:32.600 at Tiffany's on television when it came on in nineteen 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:37.399 sixty four, I think was also too or somewhere around thereabouts. 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:42.639 And I remember my mother buying me some Batman cards 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:47.000 because that was my first hero is Batman. So those 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:49.200 memories around the same time, but they were all East Orange, 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:50.160 New Jersey memories. 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:52.439 How long were you a resident in Harlem? 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:54.560 I think no more than two years. I think my 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:56.000 first two years. 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:58.040 Just the general Tri state area. Like how long were 0:23:58.040 --> 0:23:58.440 you there? 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:02.760 Well, we were there until I was about six or 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:05.960 seven when we moved to Florida for the first time. 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:11.160 Then we moved back to Jersey, then we moved to Chicago, 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:14.719 and we moved around a lot. I was my stepfather 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:18.720 was a first evangelist and minister and then later became 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:21.720 a pastor and all that, so we were moving around 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.320 a lot. Plus it was just the way I guess 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:27.840 the organization he was a part of was growing the time. 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.040 But obviously things happened to us for a purpose, which 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:33.440 hopefully we can extract the better reasons of. 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.119 Were they a musical family as well? Like do you 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:37.480 have siblings that sing as well? 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:42.399 Or yes, everybody kind of sings, but my mother is 0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:47.480 mainly the one who sang. And it was apparently her 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:52.720 mother who I sounded most like or looked most like, 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:56.000 because her mother was I'm quite sure there was some 0:24:56.080 --> 0:25:00.520 hitten Sephardic judaism that was hit in the situation, coming 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.800 back from the times of Spanish and the Reconquisto whatever. 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:08.160 Hell it was the family tree, Yeah, I get it. Yeah, yeah, 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:09.159 but there. 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:11.520 Are a lot of similarities apparently between me and her mother. 0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:14.080 But it is my mother whom I get kind of 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:17.600 that impetus. She was she grew up singing in the. 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:21.440 Church, and most of my the artists that I interviewed 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:24.159 that or at least of a certain age, kind of have 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:28.679 the same story in which quote unquote secular music is 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:35.800 contraband or not look favorably upon. So how are you 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:40.080 consuming well, you know our listeners not like being a 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.919 Prince fan was almost like detrimental to my life. And 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:46.200 it's funny to hear him say, like, your parents were 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:49.600 right to punish you for owning these records, but like 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.240 were you allowed to purchase albums or how did you 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:56.080 Some artists would say like, oh, Marvin and Stevie were allowed, 0:25:56.080 --> 0:26:00.480 but nothing else, Like how do you consume music? Are 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:02.720 your friends in school telling you like what's hip? 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:03.920 Or no? 0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:06.520 Basically, you know you're in a culture whereas everything is 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.359 around you. And what I wasn't allowed to do until 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:12.480 I was about fifteen or sixteen was to listen to 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:17.080 music in our house that I had from the outside. 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.640 But at some point, you know, on a Saturday when 0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:23.600 in my area Soul Trained in the American bandstand were 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:28.399 back to back. Yeah, So if I remember correctly, Soul 0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:33.160 Trained came on at twelve and twelve thirty American bandstands, 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:35.440 and I was allowed that at some point, provided you know, 0:26:35.480 --> 0:26:38.399 I kept the noise down and what have you. But 0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:42.359 you know, you just heard everywhere else what was happening, 0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:44.720 what was around you. And there were people that were 0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:47.879 just ubiquitous that you couldn't you know, you couldn't avoid 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:51.040 certain people. But the profile in my home was my 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:54.160 mother was a choir director first and foremost by inclination, 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.280 so we tended to listen to like a lot of 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:01.000 choir music. There was like a lot lot of James Cleveland. 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:03.840 There was a lot of like, uh, like Albertina Walker 0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:08.200 AND's Andrews, that whole that whole caravans am Betride, which 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:12.840 should a documentary in and of itself, the minutia of 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.239 the genius of black culture if you just did the 0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:18.720 caravans and you know, and Anaz and Shirley Sees and 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:21.480 all those people, because Shirley was also one of the 0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:23.399 two women who had the most influence on me as 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:23.879 a singer. 0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:26.800 O God, if I, if I hear no charge one 0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:29.439 more time. It won't be a moment too soon, like 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:33.720 every every day that sons on an ausehold. 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:36.320 But she was in the James Cleveland and all of 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:43.119 this stuff. And you know, obviously Aretha's genius album Amazing Grace. 0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:47.280 I kind of got bored with choir music. It was 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:49.399 that was beautiful. I got. I learned my lessons. I 0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:53.000 was absorbing everything, of course, but my jam was like 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:55.720 the quartet singers. Them like like them dudes in the 0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:57.640 deep from the Deep South, and they just come into 0:27:57.720 --> 0:28:00.880 church and just kill it, kill it. And it would 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:03.680 always be some dude with some like voice. I could 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:06.960 cut glass. And there was another dude that you suspected 0:28:07.119 --> 0:28:10.119 probably we was on the on the gay spectrum, you 0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:12.240 know what I'm saying. But my brother was holding it down, 0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:14.720 you know what I'm saying. He had a beautiful voice. 0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:17.200 And then woman was just like fall out and stuff. 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:22.160 And it was But see the church conglomeration of situational congregation. 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:26.000 We were with the Pentecostals. That was more of the 0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:29.639 Baptists and the Methodists who would have like the quartet scene. 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.919 The Pentecostals was more about choirs and and all of 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:35.120 this kind of stuff and nobody's stealing the light from 0:28:35.119 --> 0:28:36.880 the pastor he did, so. 0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:41.840 Then oh wow, I did not know that. Okay, there's 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.120 some of that, you know what I mean, which is why, 0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:47.760 ironically it was Rod Stewart, one of my great heroes. 0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:49.600 Shout out of respect to Rod. 0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:52.400 It was Rod who turned me back on the Sam 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:56.640 Cook because I knew Sam Cook vaguely as a legend 0:28:56.760 --> 0:29:00.000 in our community from the Soul Stirs, but I didn't 0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:03.280 paid that much attention to it because that music wasn't 0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.440 mainly played in our home. But one of the things 0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:09.640 I've always loved about Rod and the Stones is neither 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:13.520 one of them ever wasted any breath, you know, not 0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:16.760 reminding you of who these heroes were that changed their 0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:20.320 lives and were not shy about letting you know who 0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:24.720 they were. So Rod's guy was Sam. Oh this muddy 0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:28.000 and I've always heard some Bobby Blue Bland, But the 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:31.640 point is he was real about that shit. So it 0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:33.800 was when I fell in love with Rod and realized 0:29:33.920 --> 0:29:35.920 Rod was in the direction that I was going to 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:40.280 be taking my own situation. It was you know him, 0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:44.840 and I just started listening to Sam and going, oh shit, yes, yes, yes, yes, 0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.600 I missed this. This is what But it was good 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:50.200 that I got it when I got it, because then 0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:52.040 I was not only able to listen to the pop 0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:57.080 stuff and appreciate what an underrated, one of the all 0:29:57.120 --> 0:30:02.040 time underrated, great foundational pop songwriter as he was, because 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:05.240 you know, if we forget how foundational he was to 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:07.840 the writing what we call pop songs, not just soul 0:30:08.000 --> 0:30:11.280 or R and B whatever, Sam Cook and Buddy Holly 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:15.720 were right there formulating what became pop music. And interestingly 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:17.400 enough is you know they were friends, they were very 0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:21.920 close friends. But yeah, so it was Rod who took 0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:23.800 me back to Sam. And that's when like the door 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.240 opened up again. I thought, yeah, And I always felt 0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:29.880 in my heart if Sam had lived, he would have 0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.120 been doing what Rod wound up doing. And I have 0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:34.520 I always felt. I even said this to Rod, I 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:38.040 really feel like you have a walk in you know, 0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:41.560 because when we when we love people and we know 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:45.880 people love us, the different layers of our physical existence, 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.600 of the different layers of our existence, the frequencies that 0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:53.000 stayed closest to the earth, you know, the densest as 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:55.640 obviously we burn it or we bury it. Then there's 0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:58.800 this magnetic field that goes to the people who love 0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:00.880 us and who we know we can leave some of 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.920 this too. They will continue some of our work or 0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:06.960 our spirit, or will take some of our cross upon themselves, 0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:09.120 and they will continue forward with that vibe. 0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:09.920 All right. 0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:12.920 So for me, like I'll say, like a never dull 0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:16.160 moment in Lantic Crossing, I like my two favorite ride albums, 0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:19.680 But for you, like, what's your go to albums of his? 0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:22.960 First of all, let me give him ecses his flowers. 0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:26.840 The man has an unerring ear for songs. He's a 0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:31.480 great producer whatever whoever's producing him, or he's just got 0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:36.640 an unimpeachable ear for songs and great musicianship. For me, 0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:38.800 he's never made an album where I just thought, well, okay, 0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:41.480 that's a waste of time. And he's made tons of them. 0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:44.760 But I would have to say around that period but 0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:50.200 loose and fantasy free. Tonight, I'm yours. 0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:52.920 Ah tonight, I'm yours. Do anything that you won't be. 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:55.040 But check this out. The story was I was in 0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:57.840 the military. I was stationed in hand Out, Germany. The 0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:01.200 base no longer exists. Third Arm at the in the 0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:04.240 barracks across from our barracks was a big rec center 0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:08.800 and at the very top was some broom closets, and 0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:12.040 I went out and bought the cassette of Tonight I'm 0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:15.000 yours because up to that point I had like this nice, 0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:20.360 sweet choirboard tenor okay, and my determination was I wasn't 0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:23.520 gonna come out of this closet, No pun intended. 0:32:24.840 --> 0:32:26.880 Until you sing like Rod or something. Until I sang 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:28.200 like Rod, Wait what? 0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:31.720 Until I had that voice ye had Because I had this, 0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:35.240 I had the sweet, nice Michael Jackson, E Stevie type 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.360 of vibe. Cultivating a long way. Frank Sinatra was another 0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:42.000 huge influence. I had all that, but I wanted that 0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:43.440 other thing. 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.040 So the rasp comes from because you do have like 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:51.160 three distinctive voices, your rasp voice and then a very 0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:54.800 sweet falsetto, and then you're your natural tenor. So you're 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:58.560 saying that Rod Stewart is the impetus of that that 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:01.640 grap what Yes, yes. 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:04.600 All that Maggie may wake up Maggie Young. The first 0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:09.800 cut is the deepest, for real, all that, all of 0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:13.800 that stuff, Baby Jane, Okay, one of my favorite songs. 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:19.320 Yes you're right, you think I'm sexy. It's just come on, man, 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:21.040 do you think I'm sex? He's one of the records 0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:22.200 of life. It's just. 0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:26.320 Has he ever told you the Young Turk story? 0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:29.440 No, I don't think I got it directly from him. 0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:34.280 Oh yeah, No, just recently he did a benefit And 0:33:34.320 --> 0:33:36.880 I'm always obsessed and you do this a lot too. 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:40.720 I'm always obsessed with song titles that have nothing to 0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:44.000 do with what's said in the song. Yeah, And in 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:47.200 my mind, I'm like, you're saying young Hearts, right, You're 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:50.920 not saying young Turks. And I think Michael Jackson at 0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.720 the same situation when Heartbreak Hotel basically like the publisher 0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:57.720 and the managers like, look, there's already a song called 0:33:57.800 --> 0:33:59.719 Young Hearts out there, and people are going to confuse 0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:03.120 the two and it's gonna make the paperwork difficult. 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:06.760 And there's also the famous story of Radio Gaga from 0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:10.800 Queen that he was never singing Gaga, but the record 0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:13.840 company didn't feel comfortable with him actually putting Radio Coca 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:16.960 because he was saying all he is on the radio 0:34:17.000 --> 0:34:23.279 is ship in these days. Oh and if you listen now, okay, yoh, 0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:26.919 then when you don't think you're supposed to be hearing 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:30.640 Gaga and you will hear Coca. All we hear is 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:32.680 radio Coca. 0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:36.040 Makes sense now boom, all right, look at you are 0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:36.560 your schooling. 0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:38.840 We have to converse more often. 0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:42.239 Yes, oh no, no, this is the greatest first conversation ever. 0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:52.040 Our journey through life is so parallel, from living in 0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:55.359 America to moving the Kennish town, to all these things. 0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:57.880 Even as you tell you the story of your family 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:00.680 and all that, like, yes, I'm not shared that on 0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:05.920 the air, but same story. By I think ten twelve thirteen, 0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:10.400 you kind of know what your calling is. What is 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:15.919 it that you desired to be before you. 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:17.719 Were eighteen years old? Like, what do you think your 0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:18.239 calling was? 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:23.240 Well, at various times, I wanted to be a marine 0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:25.719 biologist for a short period of time, but I was 0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:28.520 serious about it. I wanted to be a journalist for 0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:31.600 a very long time and went to university for one 0:35:31.680 --> 0:35:35.959 year with the intent that explains it getting accredited. Yeah, okay, 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:36.640 well there you go. 0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:40.880 Because your lyrics are just absolutely of course you went 0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:41.880 to school for journalism. 0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:44.319 I wanted to be Okay, now I get it, I 0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:44.600 get it. 0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:47.240 Yeah, that was gonna be my jam. I was quite 0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.399 certain in my heart that if I didn't make it 0:35:50.080 --> 0:35:53.480 as the heavyweight champion of the world, Okay, then when 0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:56.120 I realized that my body type did not lend itself 0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:03.839 towards me becoming a heavyweight before the fort then I 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:07.160 downsized to the middleweight champion of the world. And then 0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:10.560 I had my epiphany when I won the Golden Gloves 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:14.319 for the State of Florida in nineteen eighty during my 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:20.520 eighteenth year, when I was beating this kid and his 0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:26.520 mother was very emotionally supporting him and cheering him on, 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:31.160 and I had an epiphetic moment that whatever I went 0:36:31.200 --> 0:36:35.360 into boxing to accomplish or to ascertain from the experience 0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:38.800 I had gotten it, I had proven something vital to myself. 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:42.439 I was tough. I was just littler than everybody else 0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:44.680 for a long time, and you know, I needed to 0:36:44.719 --> 0:36:47.839 do something to assert myself in that particular way. But 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:50.160 there was one point when I was hitting this kid 0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:53.880 in the face pretty easily and to hear his mother's impassion, 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:58.680 you know, please to him to do better. I realized 0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:00.680 in that moment that the spirit it didn't put me 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:02.960 on the earth to be hitting mother's children in the face. 0:37:03.760 --> 0:37:05.879 So you were going to be a boxer. You you're 0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:07.080 a Golden Gloves winner. 0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:11.600 Yes, in nineteen eighty state for the State of Florida. 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.600 I'll never forget that. It was in Coconut Grove in 0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:20.480 an Arena and Coconut Grove in Miami. But I just 0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:24.640 remember that that I actually didn't even fight after that 0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:28.280 fight because the next fight was the fight for the title. 0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:31.160 But the guy that I was doing to fight had 0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:33.000 to pull out at the last minute because of some 0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:36.200 bullshit I I still don't understand. But anyway, that's how 0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:38.360 I got the title. But that was also one of 0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:41.640 those epathetic experiences where I realized it was time to 0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:46.040 leave that part of warrior training alone and come back 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:46.920 to the main arena. 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:50.440 So in some alternate life, like you could have been 0:37:50.640 --> 0:37:54.200 fighting like Ray Boom Boom Mantini or like question. 0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:57.080 That was really good. I was shockingly good for someone 0:37:57.120 --> 0:38:01.200 who basically pretty much wasn't support in any other type 0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:04.160 of athletic endeavor. I mean I was always you know, 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:07.840 I was a great I love love baseball. It was 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:10.880 my favorite sport. I was a great little baseball player. 0:38:11.200 --> 0:38:13.560 But I didn't have any ass, you know, I couldn't 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:18.920 get the ball much further than saying. And so you know, 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:21.000 these coaches don't have any patients. You know, we just 0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:23.279 need to fact them up. You know, I'm just this kid. 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.360 We got all the potential in the world, but you 0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:28.400 couldn't strike me out. I knew it instantly where the 0:38:28.400 --> 0:38:31.120 ball was going the meat the minute it left the bat. 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:33.840 I wasn't the fastest kid by a long shot on 0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:35.600 the team, but I knew I was still based. I 0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:39.920 was all instinct and everything was just pure instinct. Like basketball. 0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:42.839 I didn't have any height. I couldn't shoot worth the shit, 0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:46.720 but I was a great defender, great rebounder, great passer. 0:38:47.320 --> 0:38:49.880 And the more difficult the shot, the more likely I 0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:53.080 was to make it. The easier the percentage of shot, 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:55.759 the higher percentage shot it was, the lower percentage it 0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:57.319 was going to get for me, you know what I mean. 0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:00.839 But the point is that I kept trying to find 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.200 my athletic new you, and I could never find it 0:39:03.280 --> 0:39:05.319 until by accident, I discovered that I had a natural 0:39:05.400 --> 0:39:09.040 instinct for boxing. During the nineteen seventy six Olympics, that 0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:12.920 great great Olympics, when you had Ray Davis, Sugar, Ray Leonard, 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:15.279 I forget there was like three or four guys on 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:18.239 that squad who all went to become to become great champions. 0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.279 But yeah, I was a cousin of mine had come 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:24.719 down from Jersey to visit ust In, Florida, and we 0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:26.920 went into the laundry room after one of the boxing 0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:30.360 matches and we started piling a bunch of athletic socks 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:35.719 on our fists. We started punching each other and I 0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:38.120 noticed I was really good at it. Next thing, you know, 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:42.239 I had gotten the respect that I needed and I 0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:44.759 had proven to myself what I needed until I got 0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:46.719 like I said, I got the sign that this part 0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:49.080 of your training is over all. 0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:49.319 Right. 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:52.359 So now that I know that you are a real sportshead, 0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:56.280 now I really have to analyze the Kobe and Lebron 0:39:56.400 --> 0:40:01.239 song because just to see your song titles alone it 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:03.719 is one thing, but to experience it, I was like, Wow, 0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:08.279 this is really risky way to go. But in my 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:14.080 mind I always said that serious musicians aren't sports heads. 0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:17.960 But you know, time and time again, I'm proving wrong. Yeah, 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:20.320 you know, so now I have to get serious about 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:21.480 my my sports passion. 0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:23.279 So no, it's just. 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:28.920 That it's you know, the triangular, the triangulation of singers 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:31.520 want to be athletes, Athletes want to be rock stars, 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:34.680 rock stars when moose stars, it's that thing. It's like 0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:39.279 we all want. But you know, I had a conversation 0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:44.640 with someone actually quite recently about the fact that it's 0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:48.359 still the average guy if you gave him a choice, 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:53.959 a Musk okay, and Bruce Springsteen Okay, well, Elon Musk 0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:57.799 and Michael Jordan's fuck Elon Musk. You know what I'm saying, 0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:01.520 that's just it's just billions and billions never have to 0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:03.400 work there in your life. But if dude can be 0:41:03.560 --> 0:41:06.759 like Tiger Woods or Wayne Gretzky or like you know, 0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:07.640 for just like. 0:41:07.840 --> 0:41:10.640 That summer a hero, yes. 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:13.120 Those people, you can be rinaldo when all of those 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:16.600 people in your nation are cheering for you. There's nothing 0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:19.360 like that. There's nothing like being you know, like Bruce 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:22.759 and you can play for fucking almost four hours and 0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:25.920 people are still rapturously drenched and ready to receive more 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:28.879 from the what, you know, the utter inces that fall, 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:31.600 you know, from the grace of your table. I mean, 0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:36.399 that's incredible to be able to to to have that 0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:42.920 kind of position and understand why society or polite society 0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:46.040 have always been so wary of those of us who 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:49.719 practice this magic that they cannot contain because it is 0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:52.799 a very, very very powerful for us, and it can 0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:56.160 just take your mind somewhere else away. It can challenge 0:41:56.200 --> 0:41:59.480 the programming. And we know that all societies that are 0:41:59.520 --> 0:42:02.319 going to ben fit as how it sees itself as 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.480 a society, there's going to be some programming involved that 0:42:05.560 --> 0:42:09.359 we collectively agree to undergo in order to be this 0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:12.680 kind of relatively cohesive thing called the society where we're 0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:14.280 pretty much all on the same page. 0:42:14.800 --> 0:42:18.200 I didn't ask earlier where are you currently residing? 0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:19.040 Where do you live? 0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:24.040 Well? The last twenty one years, twenty two perhaps I've 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:25.440 been living in Milano. 0:42:26.080 --> 0:42:30.239 Oh, Italy. Yes, okay, man, I've been there a few times. 0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:31.720 I never knew that. Okay. 0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:34.920 Or so do you do you still follow Are you 0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:36.160 still passionate about sports? 0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:38.160 Now? Do you follow it? Well? 0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:40.680 It's a great distraction for us, because you know, we'll 0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:46.680 consumed this thing of ours like Kosstra, but where this 0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:49.359 thing is our life. It's like, you know, I say 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:52.080 to people all the time, it's not like you know, 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:54.480 what would you do if you weren't doing this, that's 0:42:54.600 --> 0:42:58.680 not even a question that you know. That's this is 0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:04.439 what life is is about. For me, it's consuming, it's 0:43:05.239 --> 0:43:08.759 it's sometimes just so much as it can torment you 0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:13.600 as a beast. So the other thing, the other things, films, 0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:17.239 sports books, those are the great distractions that are right 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:21.240 there at your fingertips, excuse me, you can immerse yourself 0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:24.680 in because also with storytellers, So you need to fall 0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:28.200 back into these other disciplines to not only get yourself rested, 0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:31.359 to give your mind a place to tune off somewhere else, 0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:35.680 you know, less challenging, but also just to keep up 0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:38.360 with with the stories and the things that you know 0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:41.840 are part of our whole me and you of presentation 0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:45.239 as artists, you know, you got to just keep your 0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:47.960 hand involved in the arts and be immersed in it 0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:51.200 if you want to remain an active participant and relevant 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:54.440 to where it is emotionally. So, you know, for me, 0:43:56.480 --> 0:44:00.359 it's interesting because a person that I identify a lot 0:44:00.440 --> 0:44:04.239 with is Bosquio. He's one of my three favorite. Boscot, 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:10.840 Dhali and Picasso are like gods to me. And in fact, 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:14.400 I had a project that I was going to call Boscot. 0:44:15.080 --> 0:44:17.600 In fact, it was interesting because I want to This 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:19.160 is something I was going to plan to talk to 0:44:19.200 --> 0:44:21.719 you about as well, but it got postponed because of 0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:26.000 the Boscou estate wrongly assumed that I was trying to 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:29.719 you know, edge edge something onto my plate from them. 0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:32.840 It was, of course, and his people at that particular 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:35.319 time were not very hip and young. They were more 0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:39.040 like guardians and gatekeepers, so they didn't get it. But 0:44:39.960 --> 0:44:46.600 the conceit of the project is that Bosco his secret desire, 0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:49.359 his unfulfilled desire, was to be in a punk rock band, 0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:53.440 and that he was in a band, and that years 0:44:53.520 --> 0:45:00.120 later cassettes was discovered. Yeah, and so with this this 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:03.560 in mind, what did those tapes sound like? And that 0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:06.080 was the conceit of this bout Scout project is to 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:11.480 me to undertake to provide the music for the secret 0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:14.359 music he was making that he didn't live long enough 0:45:14.400 --> 0:45:16.839 to find the courage to release or whatever to press 0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:19.919 himself for in that direction. But maybe even so more 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:22.400 so than being an artist, what he really wanted to 0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:23.759 be was a fucking rock star. 0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:26.520 Have you ever met Michael Holloman at all? 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:29.920 Not that I'm aware of Michael Holloman. 0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:32.040 You know, I do a lot of side projects, and 0:45:33.360 --> 0:45:37.160 one of my also wishes was to hear what that 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:40.440 music sounded like. So I did this at the Brooklyn 0:45:40.480 --> 0:45:45.160 Academy Museum, I think in twenty twelve. But I had 0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:48.759 his partner in that group, Michael Hollman, whom I guess 0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:53.040 our listeners would probably know if you ever google any 0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:57.319 New York City Breakers footage them on Soul Train or 0:45:57.360 --> 0:46:01.640 whoever their spokesperson is. Michael Hollman was kind of the 0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:05.120 official spokesperson for the New York city Breakers, but not 0:46:05.239 --> 0:46:09.360 many people know that they were the black punk art 0:46:09.520 --> 0:46:11.600 It's reductive to say wham, but I'm just trying to 0:46:11.800 --> 0:46:14.560 figure out a duo or whatever. But Michael was his 0:46:14.920 --> 0:46:19.040 partner in that band called Gray And so I think 0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:22.840 one of the biggest misconceptions about you was through the 0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:28.560 gaze and the lens of rock journalists born in the forties. 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:31.920 Really, and the thing is, let me give you a preface. 0:46:33.239 --> 0:46:37.920 So tomorrow, after two years of working on this, my 0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:40.600 follow up film to Summer Soul is the Sign of 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:41.600 the Family Stone. 0:46:41.280 --> 0:46:43.759 Documentary, Oh awesome, thank you so much. 0:46:44.239 --> 0:46:46.560 Oh You're not ready for this shit, You're not ready. 0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:49.759 And also I'm kicking myself because you would have been 0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:56.760 the perfect oh beyond. However, this is what I'm learning, 0:46:57.560 --> 0:47:01.480 especially of a certain generation of like critics, critics that 0:47:01.560 --> 0:47:04.960 you have to face. Yeah, the Dave Mars generation, the 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.360 Rolling Stone born in nineteen forties. 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:09.520 Yeah, yeah, I get you. I get you. To this day, 0:47:09.520 --> 0:47:11.600 I can't read well. To this day, I can't go. 0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:14.439 Then, brother, I get it. I get it now. 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:17.040 I mean, just in case there's something besides some more 0:47:17.120 --> 0:47:21.640 lists that these motherfuckers put together. But anyway, I get it. 0:47:21.880 --> 0:47:22.279 I get it. 0:47:22.560 --> 0:47:25.560 Yeah, but see if I can, for example, even the 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:29.680 cultural divide between the stick I was running in England 0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:32.880 and not having time to recalibrate the fact that the 0:47:32.920 --> 0:47:35.880 same potion won't work on the Americans because they don't 0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:40.160 have They're just not as academically grounded for as long 0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:43.040 a period of time as the English, and it's their 0:47:43.120 --> 0:47:46.839 language we speak anyway. Plus they have something we don't, 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:50.520 which is appreciation of irony. In any event, some of 0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:52.600 them were aware that I was just dusting off of 0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:56.560 Muhammad Ali routine, just trying to hype and sell directly, 0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:58.120 because at the end of the day, I didn't believe 0:47:58.120 --> 0:48:00.520 any of this shit I was just but I. 0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:02.600 So you're saying that the interviews that you would give 0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:06.719 like enemy could go down easier there, but here with 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:10.000 rolling Stone, Yes, suddenly you're the most arrogant. 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:13.120 Absolutely, And then there and then I've always tried to 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:14.840 be a gentleman, to be real about my shit. And 0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:16.640 then there was just one of the first journalists I 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:19.480 spoke to my America. She was upset that I didn't 0:48:19.480 --> 0:48:22.120 try to fuck her, so, you know, she wound up 0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:25.880 doing a smear piece just based on again an interpretation 0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.160 of an act. You know, I'm sure you met him, 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:32.319 but Muhammad was nothing like his image. He was trying 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:34.880 to sell tickets. He knew whether you came to see him, 0:48:34.920 --> 0:48:36.240 winna lose. You can't. 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:38.799 I knew you were doing the Muhammad Ali thing. I knew, 0:48:39.000 --> 0:48:41.200 and I was sixteen at the time reading that cover story. 0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:45.680 But me thing was interesting QUESTI because I remember it 0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:47.959 was a young journalist and it was for the cover. 0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:50.319 I'm I was really excited. And then of course I 0:48:50.400 --> 0:48:52.399 was too naive to catch this trick. He turns off 0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:56.480 the tape recorder says, Okay, we're finished. Then he looks 0:48:56.480 --> 0:48:59.480 at me and he says, but seriously, how good do 0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:02.880 you think you are? You really are? And you know, 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:06.359 I'm like twenty three some twenty four. I'm not even 0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:09.000 sure what a kind of question is this. You know, 0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:11.319 I come from the hood, you know, it's like it's 0:49:11.400 --> 0:49:15.040 like and and one thing we learn is that, you know, 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:17.960 you used to go to like the throing Cookman talent shows, 0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:21.799 you know, doing Cookman College, and you learn quickly if 0:49:21.800 --> 0:49:26.600 you don't entertain these motherfuckers, you become the entertainment. Either way, 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:30.440 they're gonna get the entertainment either threw you or from you, 0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:34.080 or you know, but so you you kind of Plus, 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:35.960 I was born in New York, and there is a 0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:38.720 certain swagger. There is a certain swagger that IM views 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:43.040 upon those of us who are born there and grew 0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:45.960 up there, and and I think all those things together, 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:48.839 but you know, basically I didn't believe all that that shit. 0:49:49.080 --> 0:49:51.480 But any of the interview, the guy asked, so, how 0:49:51.480 --> 0:49:54.680 good do you think you are? And I'm not sure 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:56.400 if he's serious, but I just look at him, says 0:49:57.000 --> 0:49:59.680 think I'm a fucking gene, you know what I mean. 0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:03.560 But I also didn't believe that at the time. But 0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:06.959 I also did believe that I could get there much 0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:09.960 easier if I did believe it. It was one of 0:50:10.040 --> 0:50:12.760 those things where from the earliest moment I heard the word, 0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:16.239 it resonated something of recognition aside me like, well, I 0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:17.879 don't know what this means, but I think I might 0:50:18.560 --> 0:50:21.359 have some of this or what have you. But it's 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:23.480 snowballs from there. And as you know, then at some 0:50:23.560 --> 0:50:26.160 point you don't have to say anything. They start to 0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:29.200 give quotes to what is a profile and what they 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:31.239 feel like people will accept this from him because we're 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:34.399 already presenting him as this kind of guy who would 0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:37.880 say this kind of shit. So yeah, that definitely was 0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:40.560 a situation. But there's also another element I found, which 0:50:40.600 --> 0:50:43.320 is when you're erodyite and you can speak for yourself, 0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:47.680 they get into this savior complex thing. What they want 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:52.359 to be the ones to interpret how brilliant they it's 0:50:52.360 --> 0:50:55.960 on them because they loved it. Well. They often prefer 0:50:56.040 --> 0:50:59.440 that image of the idiot savancee who is brilliant. But 0:50:59.440 --> 0:51:01.080 it just doesn't oh, because you know, we didn't have 0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:04.759 much of an education, and I think I was I 0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:08.960 experienced being too intimidating for some of them because I 0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:11.239 was reading the same shit they were reading. I was 0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:13.640 reading the same journalist, Nick Kent, and all these guts 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:15.160 that they were growing up on and reviewing. 0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:19.320 All right, folks, I got good news and bad news, 0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:22.799 bad news of courses. It's the end of part one. 0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:25.800 Good news is that you can check back next week, 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:29.840 you know, to where you get your podcasts, depending on 0:51:30.600 --> 0:51:33.560 when you listen for the great part too. And there 0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:38.280 we're going to discuss h Sonanda's catalog, including his new album, 0:51:38.640 --> 0:51:42.719 The Pegasus Project, Pegasus and the Swan. We also talk 0:51:42.760 --> 0:51:49.320 about life turning points and uh Sonanda nearly joining an excess. 0:51:49.840 --> 0:52:03.680 Yeah that all right, see y'all next week. 0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:13.040 West Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For 0:52:13.160 --> 0:52:17.400 more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:19.520 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.