1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,360
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna try.

3
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 3: To not geek out as I normally do in these introductions,

4
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 3: but and I will.

5
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,759
Speaker 4: Also try to hide my abundant enthusiasm before talking to

6
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,440
Speaker 4: such a killer of culture.

7
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 3: As just know, it is so weird that our very

8
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 3: first exchange is going to be in front of millions

9
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,159
Speaker 3: of people. I will try to keep my composure of

10
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:39,360
Speaker 3: my professionalism. All right, ladies and gentlemen of Questlove World listenership.

11
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,480
Speaker 3: This is one of those air quote dreams come true

12
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,600
Speaker 3: moments for this podcast. Our guest today has a profound

13
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 3: effect all my life, ever since his nineteen eighty seven debut,

14
00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 3: which yielded five singles that propelled him to the top

15
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 3: of the charts. And it can't be overstated how impressionable

16
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 3: he was to me in my life at that particular time,

17
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 3: because I was just about to graduate high school and

18
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,480
Speaker 3: I was deciding for myself, like what is it that

19
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 3: I want to do with my life? And clearly I

20
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,320
Speaker 3: didn't want to live my dad's dream of you know,

21
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 3: respectable politics and entering the world of classical music. But

22
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 3: reading our guests mind blowing interviews and mind you Like,

23
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of my idols and hip hop

24
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 3: really weren't given the platform of a village voice, or

25
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,800
Speaker 3: of a spin magazine or of a rolling Stone. So

26
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,959
Speaker 3: reading his mind blowing interviews really had an effect on me.

27
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,559
Speaker 3: Reading his lyrics had an effect, watching and perform Hearing

28
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 3: him sing had an effect his arrangements, his production and fun. Fact,

29
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:50,880
Speaker 3: a lot of you are going to be mind blowing.

30
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 3: That are Roots fans. His liner notes, okay, his liner notes, credits, yes,

31
00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 3: credits and liner notes. I literally didn't know that these

32
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 3: food delivery box could be an instrument, like so just

33
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,240
Speaker 3: his sixth sense of humor in music and on his

34
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 3: line like literally longtime Roots fans who still to this day,

35
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 3: despite the fact that I've written eight and I'm plugging

36
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 3: My hip Hop's History came out last week, but my

37
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,320
Speaker 3: eight New York Times bestsellers, despite the fact that I

38
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,359
Speaker 3: have eight books, Roots fans complain to this day that

39
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,360
Speaker 3: and despite the fact that there are no more tangible

40
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 3: well not no more, but you know, tangible objects like

41
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 3: cassettes or LPs or CDs or a trex is not

42
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 3: the primary way that we consume music. To this day,

43
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,799
Speaker 3: they still ridicule me for not doing epic liner notes,

44
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,360
Speaker 3: not knowing that our guess is single handedly responsible for

45
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 3: that side of my life. Yeah, I'll definitely say forty

46
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 3: percent responsible. I don't want to dismiss you.

47
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 4: I have to cut you off now before you You're

48
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 4: embarrassed both of us.

49
00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,400
Speaker 2: No, no, man, let me, let me.

50
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 3: Let me just gonna get to the end, because I

51
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 3: know when love is projected, we somehow try to avoid it,

52
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 3: like the Matrix. I get it, and if the other

53
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,360
Speaker 3: Team Supreme people were here right now, they do the

54
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:13,920
Speaker 3: same to me.

55
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,480
Speaker 2: But I think it's important.

56
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 3: That we give flowers and really show respect to the gods.

57
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,839
Speaker 4: So I really appreciate that.

58
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,279
Speaker 3: But literally, because I was aware of his life transformation

59
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 3: after his first five records, it wasn't until D'Angelo and

60
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 3: I were making Black Messiah around like twenty eleven, twenty

61
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,640
Speaker 3: twelve that D'Angelo will hit me to the fact that

62
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:41,720
Speaker 3: I missed like seven or eight albums and not believing

63
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 3: what I heard, I pulled my phone out and realized

64
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,040
Speaker 3: the mountain of music I missed, and I have not

65
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 3: been the same ever since. I have always wanted to

66
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,119
Speaker 3: say this, Welcome to quest love supreme. Wow, Sanata Matreya,

67
00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 3: thank you so much for doing this.

68
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 4: Thank you for having us. And also let me say

69
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 4: that we're basically two geeks speaking to each other because

70
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 4: a lot of what makes us, speaking of us both

71
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 4: collectively what we are is that particular attention to detail

72
00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,320
Speaker 4: that being a geek bestows upon you, because when you're

73
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 4: a geek, it means that you're paying attention to extra

74
00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,280
Speaker 4: things that others are not. And then when you have

75
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 4: a chance to contribute yourself. I mean, I often have

76
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,599
Speaker 4: said to people if I write certain things, while I

77
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,240
Speaker 4: do a certain things a certain way, I said, these

78
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:39,240
Speaker 4: are for the people who.

79
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:39,599
Speaker 2: Are like me.

80
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 4: When I could thrill a second engineer on a Stevie

81
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 4: Wonder record when I met him like fifteen years later,

82
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,839
Speaker 4: because I actually knew who he was by his name, okay,

83
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 4: and the fact that you knew what Stevie record it

84
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 4: was and everything, and they were like so thrilled. It's like, Wow,

85
00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 4: what a gift to give back to someone simply because

86
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 4: I was a kid like you who devoured everything. Okay.

87
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 4: I feel a p Funk record if it was a

88
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,039
Speaker 4: Beatles record, didn't matter. If I got for me, the

89
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 4: only thing I missed about the old vinyl days, really

90
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,479
Speaker 4: is this artwork space. Yes, you know, the presentation. You

91
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,239
Speaker 4: had to make a title, you know, and bring a

92
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:25,799
Speaker 4: completely different stamp on the world before. Unfortunately, we began

93
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,799
Speaker 4: to put thoughts in your head as to the context

94
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,880
Speaker 4: of the song by the videos, Whereas once upon a time,

95
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,480
Speaker 4: it was the song meant what whatever it triggered in

96
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 4: your imagination, that was the video that was created.

97
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 3: But oh yes, I want to share something with you

98
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 3: that I don't think the world news and I can't

99
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,040
Speaker 3: say her name properly, but there's an artist right now,

100
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:55,839
Speaker 3: a very significant artist who is held back releasing videos, yes,

101
00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 3: or a particular album, an emic album. And I found

102
00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 3: out maybe four months ago, went to go see this

103
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 3: particular artist in concert, said how great the show was,

104
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:15,359
Speaker 3: and noticed that I saw certain visual clips that weren't

105
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,719
Speaker 3: out in the world. And this artist tells me, hey,

106
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,719
Speaker 3: you know, you're actually partly responsible for this, and I

107
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 3: was like, what do you mean. So when this artist

108
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,839
Speaker 3: released a record, I said, you know what I love

109
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:35,600
Speaker 3: about this album is that because there were no videos initially,

110
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 3: because of course I thought there was going to be

111
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,599
Speaker 3: an onslaught of videos that I said.

112
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:40,600
Speaker 2: It took me back to.

113
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,000
Speaker 3: The time where I explained to this artist when the

114
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,159
Speaker 3: album came out that I had a when Stevie Wonder's

115
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 3: Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants came out that

116
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 3: for me was my dark side of the moon. Like

117
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,159
Speaker 3: my dad hated that record, so he was like, here,

118
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 3: you take it, and I took it, put the headphones

119
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,599
Speaker 3: on and just closed my eyes and imagined, you know,

120
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,559
Speaker 3: and basically said that I don't want videos for songs

121
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,160
Speaker 3: in the Key Life or any of Stevie Wonder's seventies

122
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 3: records because in my mind, I have a picture of

123
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,040
Speaker 3: what I see, yes, because synaesthesia is real, and I,

124
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 3: you know, I was just making a passing comment that,

125
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 3: you know, it's great to experience this record without the

126
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 3: videos telling me.

127
00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 2: What to think. And I didn't know that I held

128
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 2: that much weight.

129
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 3: And I guess on the ride home that must have

130
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,840
Speaker 3: been a straw that broke the camel's back to say, hey,

131
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 3: we're gonna not release videos because I want people to

132
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 3: experience the music.

133
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 4: And I remember getting Journey Through the Secret Life of

134
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 4: Plans as a Christmas present one year from my aunt

135
00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 4: who worked in sears so yes, and so she got

136
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 4: it for me. And I remember I was just on

137
00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 4: the cusp where I was allowed to listen to stuff

138
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 4: inside the house that wasn't gospel. But I remember going

139
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 4: out to our car and with my littc casette and

140
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,800
Speaker 4: just playing it because I absolutely I mean, if it's

141
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 4: not clear, it should be that Stevie was one of

142
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,600
Speaker 4: the absolute pillars of my entire consciousness as a musician,

143
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 4: as an artist, as anything that I perceived myself to be.

144
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 4: He and the Beatles are kind of just right there

145
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 4: at the foundation of how I started to envision music.

146
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:34,520
Speaker 4: So I loved that album saying well, you Loe, that

147
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 4: doesn't mean And the thing about Stevee was he was

148
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,680
Speaker 4: like the Beatles were for me. He was a master

149
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,880
Speaker 4: class in all of it, songs, arrangements, instrumentation, He was

150
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,360
Speaker 4: a master orchestrator, Like they told him this motherfucker.

151
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 2: You know.

152
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 4: And it was like just the way he brought further

153
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,719
Speaker 4: dimension of consciousness into the music, just by his understanding

154
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 4: of sounds and how sounds trigger us alone, it's just

155
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 4: not enough it's spoken about that. Sometimes I wish our

156
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 4: brother Stevie was was white, just so that he would

157
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 4: get much more intellectual appreciation. Yes, you know, because he

158
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 4: really the only peers for me he had on the

159
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,000
Speaker 4: level that he existed was the Beatles, was like Brian Wilson,

160
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,319
Speaker 4: like these these extremely rare contemporaries who are like the Schubert, Beethoven,

161
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,560
Speaker 4: Mozarts of their time. You know. So I'm with you all.

162
00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 4: It's interesting that we have that journey through the secret

163
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,839
Speaker 4: life of plans connection. And also before we travel further,

164
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,839
Speaker 4: I want to thank you so much for just your

165
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 4: contribution that you've made since the roots and since first

166
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 4: coming out and just expanding your whole empire of consciousness

167
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,560
Speaker 4: onto you know what for me culminated in this Oscar

168
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,800
Speaker 4: that you I was so happy that you won and

169
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,120
Speaker 4: you make such a memorable year as well.

170
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that there's a life changing year for me, man,

171
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 3: because I really appreciated.

172
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 4: You know. One of my claims to Pride is that

173
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 4: I was born the same day as Sly, So you know,

174
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 4: I remember Ifroen Prince saying, you fuck are you're born

175
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 4: the same You and Slive born the same day. You

176
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:17,560
Speaker 4: know what I said?

177
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 2: You do that?

178
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. No, I'm not sure if

179
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 4: Sly knew it.

180
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 2: No, no, no, but Prince knew that.

181
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

182
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 2: Oh okay, wait, I gotta ask one question.

183
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,680
Speaker 3: There's so much I want to learn about your story

184
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 3: and your journey, but I've been dying to ask you

185
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 3: this question for at least three decades.

186
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,440
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, and you already mentioned his name, so I

187
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:40,199
Speaker 2: had to ask.

188
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:47,640
Speaker 3: Okay, February of nineteen eighty eight, mm h, you are

189
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 3: about to walk on stage. Yes, And Smokey Robinson's in

190
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,800
Speaker 3: the audience, Stevie wonders in the audience, Bono's in the audience.

191
00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,679
Speaker 2: Michael's in the front row.

192
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 4: With the red fucking jacket that you couldn't miss if

193
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,359
Speaker 4: you were Stevie wonder Yes.

194
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 2: Princes in the front row.

195
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 3: I think that's the first time where I tried to

196
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 3: like channel vicariously. How does a person give a pitch

197
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 3: perfect performance when literally the pillars of gods are literally

198
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 3: like in the first three rows watching you. And the

199
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 3: thing is is that I know Michael has an attitude

200
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,600
Speaker 3: because like that was also a weird night for him. Yeah,

201
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 3: that was sort of the very that was the seed

202
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 3: of the beginning of yeah, his you know, his future

203
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 3: and also.

204
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 4: The beginning of mine.

205
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 2: In soundcheck.

206
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,120
Speaker 3: I always wanted to know this because when I do

207
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,719
Speaker 3: award shows and I go soundcheck, you know, they put

208
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 3: those big giant cards on the chairs and you see name, name, name,

209
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,720
Speaker 3: So when you're sound checking, you see, like, who's going

210
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:57,440
Speaker 3: to be watching you?

211
00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 2: Because you still gave a pitch perfect before?

212
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 4: Thank you?

213
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 3: What was that day like or was it just so

214
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 3: numbing that it wasn't a footnote for you at all?

215
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:07,079
Speaker 2: Or well?

216
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 4: First of all, the thing is is that at some

217
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:16,440
Speaker 4: point you do feel that parallel realities are real.

218
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:17,640
Speaker 2: You know.

219
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 4: I used to explain at the very beginning what freaked

220
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,560
Speaker 4: people out most around me was that I had told

221
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 4: them exactly what was going to happen, and it did

222
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 4: because I had this sense even then that what I

223
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 4: was going to do I had already done. But this

224
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 4: was just kind of a time shift. Or because this

225
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,840
Speaker 4: dimension is at a slower rate of frequency than the

226
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 4: dimension in which I've already done this, it just takes

227
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 4: time to manifest. But I just had this but I've

228
00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 4: done this already attitude that informed so much of where

229
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 4: I was coming from. And I say that because sometimes

230
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 4: I mean still to this day, I can be in

231
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,560
Speaker 4: the vocable singing, and I have this almost outer body

232
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 4: experience where I hear that the voice isn't coming from me,

233
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 4: it's coming through me. And I'm basically literally capable of

234
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 4: standing in that space where I can see the difference

235
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 4: between something that originates from you and something you're just

236
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,839
Speaker 4: bearing witness to as a witness to a process. And

237
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 4: a lot of times that happens when it seems like

238
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,520
Speaker 4: the reality that you're about to walk into is already

239
00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 4: so surreal that you might as well just have that

240
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,080
Speaker 4: kind of other dimensional experience. I said, say this, you

241
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 4: grew up watching the Grammys. You grew up dreaming that

242
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,080
Speaker 4: one day would be you okay, and then but what

243
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,840
Speaker 4: you didn't dream is that damn there, like you said,

244
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 4: every one of your like heroes and this in the

245
00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,680
Speaker 4: front row. And at least it distracted you from the

246
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 4: millions and millions and millions of people who are watching it.

247
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,959
Speaker 4: That was like the good thing they distract you from it.

248
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,640
Speaker 4: But during the sound check and what have you, I

249
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 4: just don't pay that much attention to those things. I

250
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 4: really don't. I focus out, I get my game head together.

251
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,960
Speaker 4: I understand what I have to do, and I know

252
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 4: what I have to do to achieve that level. And

253
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,920
Speaker 4: one of the things that I did have to do

254
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 4: was I always shut people out before the gig. I

255
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,360
Speaker 4: never saw anyone before a gig, and of course you

256
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,800
Speaker 4: get a reputation that people don't understand as being aloof

257
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 4: for arrogant or whatever. You med meditation, Yeah, to put yourself,

258
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 4: put your game face on, getting that zone, call your

259
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,640
Speaker 4: spirit together and all of that. But here's the secret

260
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 4: is the killer. Fortunately that gig was in between a

261
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 4: tour that we were doing anyway, we were already touring

262
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 4: the States, and before I left London, a fan of

263
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 4: mine from California had said, I'm going to be like

264
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 4: shipping you something that will be waiting for you when

265
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,960
Speaker 4: you get to whatever. My first destination was Miami or

266
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 4: Orlando or some Daytona, Florida, Okay. And so I got there,

267
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 4: which is where I took the band to do production mirossalsuse.

268
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 4: I grew up in the Daytona Beach area and I

269
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 4: wanted to return there for production mirousals for the American tour.

270
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 4: And so when I got there to Daytona Beach, what

271
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 4: was waiting for me but a nice stick packet of shrooms. Okay.

272
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 4: So I took the schedule, which I remember was forty dates,

273
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,680
Speaker 4: and I picked about eight to a dozen, eight to

274
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,000
Speaker 4: a dozen that I'm gonna do shroom here, I'm gonna

275
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,400
Speaker 4: do it shroom here, I'm gonna do air. And it

276
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 4: was like it was just a crazy great experience. And

277
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,720
Speaker 4: I had no intention of doing that that night, But

278
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 4: when I was sitting in the audience and I could

279
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,400
Speaker 4: see all the silhouettes and all people in front of

280
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 4: me and just the spectacle that it was, I just

281
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 4: thought I should be high. I mean, this is not right,

282
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 4: and I'm just being honest. I was never like a

283
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,480
Speaker 4: cocaine guy or heroin guy. I was. I was in

284
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 4: the like even as a child. I understood if it

285
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 4: kind of gave you a different perspective on some shit.

286
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 3: I think it brings you closer to God personally. Yeah,

287
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 3: I'm a new microducer. I started microducing, and like before

288
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 3: twenty twenty nothing, I didn't drink, none of that stuff.

289
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 3: And then you know, once I started meditating and all

290
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 3: that shit, you know what I mean, Like I started yeah, microdocing.

291
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 4: So as I was getting closer to being called if

292
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 4: I'm not mistaken, I think even Madam Whitney performed that

293
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 4: night okay mistaken. It was just an onslaught of like

294
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 4: just genius bitches. And I was like, okay, look. I

295
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,320
Speaker 4: turned to my baby mama, my English daughter, Sarahina, and

296
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 4: I say to her, yeah, hooked me up when of

297
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 4: them rooms buds right, because she she had brought a

298
00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,120
Speaker 4: few emergencies. Just break, just break emergency, I'm saying, and

299
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 4: I said, and she was like, looked at me, like,

300
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 4: are you sure. I was like, no, no, no, give me.

301
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,280
Speaker 4: So I took one, went to bathroom booming. Next thing,

302
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,240
Speaker 4: you know, I was able to get out of my

303
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 4: head and leave that performance because you know, it was

304
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 4: also important for me to address my the heroes that

305
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,879
Speaker 4: were present, that this is the effect that you've had, This.

306
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 2: Is what you dude. I said that.

307
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,120
Speaker 3: I said, Wow, I wonder if they're sitting there thinking

308
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,199
Speaker 3: I felt this, No, but not that, but I felt like,

309
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 3: because the thing is, it's also your thing is so deep,

310
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 3: like it's not your version of the microphone tricks, isn't

311
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,679
Speaker 3: James Brown's Joe text? Like literally, people don't know that

312
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 3: Joe Tech started that shit, Like the pioneer never gets

313
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,919
Speaker 3: the credit there's always the second person that sees it

314
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:48,879
Speaker 3: and perfects it.

315
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and James Brown is world famous for his.

316
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 3: Derivative borrowing, but you know, yeah, he's still the god.

317
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 3: But even to the level where you started doing a

318
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 3: microphone like in your history of performance, I was like,

319
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:09,160
Speaker 3: oh wow, he even knows Joe Texa's level of microphone mastery.

320
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 4: And a lot of that stuff is channeling really, because

321
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 4: it is a collective, whatever name one is comfortable giving

322
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 4: to it. You know, if I'm in a certain comfortable space,

323
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 4: I don't mind calling it the Holy Spirit, because ultimately

324
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 4: that's who I believe, That's who I know. I'm belonging

325
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 4: to the service of Okay, I do believe that many of

326
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,159
Speaker 4: us artists, this is precisely why we're here. I mean,

327
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 4: I'm asked often, why are you so prolific or how

328
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 4: you create so easily? I said, that's a simple I've

329
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 4: never seen myself as separate from the music. I'm an

330
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 4: extension of the music. The music is not just a concept.

331
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 4: It's a real spirit and it can create life, just

332
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 4: like a lot of other spirit has the power to

333
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,119
Speaker 4: create life. So I just believe that I'm a form

334
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,639
Speaker 4: of music. In a human life, and therefore there is

335
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 4: no separation between me and the mus and the music.

336
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 4: It's just at one with my expression. And this is

337
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,679
Speaker 4: basically what I've always known that I was in the

338
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 4: service off because I don't really believe all of these

339
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 4: gifts of mine. I believe that I have been, that

340
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 4: this is my Karmen, and this is my service, and

341
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 4: we're selected for our fidelity because everything that I have,

342
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 4: everything that I've endured and been able to endure with

343
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 4: whatever grace has been I've been able to summon from

344
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 4: the reservoir of mercy, is simply by understanding that you know,

345
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 4: I was taught in Sunday School seeking first the kingdom

346
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 4: of having in its righteousness, and all these things will

347
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 4: we added onto you. The way I've lived that, the

348
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,919
Speaker 4: way I've interpreted that my life is the muse telling

349
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 4: me listen, is the deal you served first and foremost

350
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 4: to the utmost of your fidelity. You serve the music,

351
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 4: you serve the inspiration. Hear it that you're giving, and

352
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 4: we will look after your life. We will find the

353
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 4: right woman for you. We will find what you need

354
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 4: because we know what you need, and we know we're

355
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 4: not gonna give you more than you need to be

356
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 4: a distraction from the work that you're taken upon yourself

357
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,640
Speaker 4: to do. So you know all of that's a part

358
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 4: of it, and you know that's that's what we're in

359
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 4: the service of. So basically, yeah, it's their moments. When

360
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 4: it's the same, it's like I rarely will drink or whatever,

361
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 4: but if I feel like I need, as any performer,

362
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 4: to drink, to take a shot of whiskey, to just

363
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 4: kind of like center myself in the in the purpose

364
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 4: thereof that you do what you gotta do.

365
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,239
Speaker 3: For our listeners that are not aware. Where's your beginnings? Like,

366
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 3: where were you born?

367
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 4: I have the great great fortune of being stamped by

368
00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 4: arrival in the great Borough of Harlem, h and the

369
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 4: magnificent year of nineteen sixty two, the year of the

370
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 4: Fender Jaguar, the year of the New York Mets, the

371
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 4: year of the Rolling Stones. Okay, there you go, nineteen

372
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 4: sixty two, and then I was basically we were actually

373
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 4: from my people were from Newark. I also proudly claimed

374
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 4: that East Darns connection, because, as you would know, East

375
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 4: Starnes has produced an abundant amounts of bitches that were

376
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 4: like making sense, you know what I mean? Yes, I

377
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 4: think even Shaq Shaquille comes from Eastars And even my

378
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 4: mother's history is kind of wound around Madame dion Warwicks,

379
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 4: what could have been, what happened, what would happen if

380
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 4: type history. So we came from that area. But my

381
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 4: mother was the beloved eldest daughter of the big pastor

382
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 4: of Newark, the Pentecostal Church, and when basically my father

383
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 4: seduced her, you know, it was shame upon your family

384
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 4: and all that bullshit, and so basically she was kind

385
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 4: of banished to a cousin in Harlem who also knew

386
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 4: how to take care of her, to look after because

387
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 4: my mother's mother died when she was thirteen. So we

388
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 4: were banished into Harlem to live with a cousin, and

389
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 4: it was basically two years after that we moved back

390
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 4: to Jersey. So that's where I began. And I'm proud

391
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 4: to say I was born in Harlem because it's just

392
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 4: one of those vortexes on the earth that if you

393
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 4: have that fortune to be able to do something with

394
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 4: that stamp, you're a blessed person.

395
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 3: Indeed, what was your first musical memory in life the Beatles.

396
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 4: I was two years old, and it's the first not

397
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 4: only musical memory, it's my first memory. I would imagine

398
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 4: the thought. I almost vaguely think I remember a picture

399
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 4: of my father being banished from my life, my biological father,

400
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 4: But obviously I would have suppressed that if it was

401
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 4: a negative emotion. But at the age of two, I

402
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 4: remember she loved yeah, yeah, and oh you no no no, no, no, hope,

403
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 4: you don't understand. I want to hold your hand, and

404
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 4: she loves you. That that is the earliest memory I have,

405
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 4: and I just think it's so awesome that it was

406
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 4: a musical memory as well, because nothing you know that

407
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 4: that was the music that woke up my consciousness to

408
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 4: the fact that I was existing in that life. So

409
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: that was my first memory. I also remember seeing Breakfast

410
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 4: at Tiffany's on television when it came on in nineteen

411
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 4: sixty four, I think was also too or somewhere around thereabouts.

412
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 4: And I remember my mother buying me some Batman cards

413
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 4: because that was my first hero is Batman. So those

414
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 4: memories around the same time, but they were all East Orange,

415
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 4: New Jersey memories.

416
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 2: How long were you a resident in Harlem?

417
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 4: I think no more than two years. I think my

418
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 4: first two years.

419
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: Just the general Tri state area. Like how long were

420
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: you there?

421
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 4: Well, we were there until I was about six or

422
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 4: seven when we moved to Florida for the first time.

423
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 4: Then we moved back to Jersey, then we moved to Chicago,

424
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,719
Speaker 4: and we moved around a lot. I was my stepfather

425
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 4: was a first evangelist and minister and then later became

426
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 4: a pastor and all that, so we were moving around

427
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 4: a lot. Plus it was just the way I guess

428
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 4: the organization he was a part of was growing the time.

429
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 4: But obviously things happened to us for a purpose, which

430
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 4: hopefully we can extract the better reasons of.

431
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: Were they a musical family as well? Like do you

432
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: have siblings that sing as well?

433
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 4: Or yes, everybody kind of sings, but my mother is

434
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 4: mainly the one who sang. And it was apparently her

435
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 4: mother who I sounded most like or looked most like,

436
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 4: because her mother was I'm quite sure there was some

437
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 4: hitten Sephardic judaism that was hit in the situation, coming

438
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 4: back from the times of Spanish and the Reconquisto whatever.

439
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: Hell it was the family tree, Yeah, I get it. Yeah, yeah,

440
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: but there.

441
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 4: Are a lot of similarities apparently between me and her mother.

442
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 4: But it is my mother whom I get kind of

443
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 4: that impetus. She was she grew up singing in the.

444
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: Church, and most of my the artists that I interviewed

445
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: that or at least of a certain age, kind of have

446
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 3: the same story in which quote unquote secular music is

447
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 3: contraband or not look favorably upon. So how are you

448
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: consuming well, you know our listeners not like being a

449
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 3: Prince fan was almost like detrimental to my life. And

450
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: it's funny to hear him say, like, your parents were

451
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 3: right to punish you for owning these records, but like

452
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 3: were you allowed to purchase albums or how did you

453
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 3: Some artists would say like, oh, Marvin and Stevie were allowed,

454
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 3: but nothing else, Like how do you consume music? Are

455
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 3: your friends in school telling you like what's hip?

456
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: Or no?

457
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: Basically, you know you're in a culture whereas everything is

458
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 4: around you. And what I wasn't allowed to do until

459
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 4: I was about fifteen or sixteen was to listen to

460
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 4: music in our house that I had from the outside.

461
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 4: But at some point, you know, on a Saturday when

462
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 4: in my area Soul Trained in the American bandstand were

463
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 4: back to back. Yeah, So if I remember correctly, Soul

464
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 4: Trained came on at twelve and twelve thirty American bandstands,

465
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 4: and I was allowed that at some point, provided you know,

466
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 4: I kept the noise down and what have you. But

467
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 4: you know, you just heard everywhere else what was happening,

468
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 4: what was around you. And there were people that were

469
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 4: just ubiquitous that you couldn't you know, you couldn't avoid

470
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: certain people. But the profile in my home was my

471
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 4: mother was a choir director first and foremost by inclination,

472
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 4: so we tended to listen to like a lot of

473
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: choir music. There was like a lot lot of James Cleveland.

474
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 4: There was a lot of like, uh, like Albertina Walker

475
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 4: AND's Andrews, that whole that whole caravans am Betride, which

476
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 4: should a documentary in and of itself, the minutia of

477
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,239
Speaker 4: the genius of black culture if you just did the

478
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 4: caravans and you know, and Anaz and Shirley Sees and

479
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 4: all those people, because Shirley was also one of the

480
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 4: two women who had the most influence on me as

481
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 4: a singer.

482
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: O God, if I, if I hear no charge one

483
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 3: more time. It won't be a moment too soon, like

484
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 3: every every day that sons on an ausehold.

485
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: But she was in the James Cleveland and all of

486
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 4: this stuff. And you know, obviously Aretha's genius album Amazing Grace.

487
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: I kind of got bored with choir music. It was

488
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 4: that was beautiful. I got. I learned my lessons. I

489
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 4: was absorbing everything, of course, but my jam was like

490
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 4: the quartet singers. Them like like them dudes in the

491
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 4: deep from the Deep South, and they just come into

492
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 4: church and just kill it, kill it. And it would

493
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 4: always be some dude with some like voice. I could

494
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 4: cut glass. And there was another dude that you suspected

495
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 4: probably we was on the on the gay spectrum, you

496
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. But my brother was holding it down,

497
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. He had a beautiful voice.

498
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 4: And then woman was just like fall out and stuff.

499
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 4: And it was But see the church conglomeration of situational congregation.

500
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 4: We were with the Pentecostals. That was more of the

501
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 4: Baptists and the Methodists who would have like the quartet scene.

502
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 4: The Pentecostals was more about choirs and and all of

503
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 4: this kind of stuff and nobody's stealing the light from

504
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 4: the pastor he did, so.

505
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 5: Then oh wow, I did not know that. Okay, there's

506
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 5: some of that, you know what I mean, which is why,

507
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 5: ironically it was Rod Stewart, one of my great heroes.

508
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 5: Shout out of respect to Rod.

509
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 4: It was Rod who turned me back on the Sam

510
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 4: Cook because I knew Sam Cook vaguely as a legend

511
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: in our community from the Soul Stirs, but I didn't

512
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 4: paid that much attention to it because that music wasn't

513
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 4: mainly played in our home. But one of the things

514
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: I've always loved about Rod and the Stones is neither

515
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 4: one of them ever wasted any breath, you know, not

516
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 4: reminding you of who these heroes were that changed their

517
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 4: lives and were not shy about letting you know who

518
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: they were. So Rod's guy was Sam. Oh this muddy

519
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 4: and I've always heard some Bobby Blue Bland, But the

520
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 4: point is he was real about that shit. So it

521
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 4: was when I fell in love with Rod and realized

522
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 4: Rod was in the direction that I was going to

523
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 4: be taking my own situation. It was you know him,

524
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: and I just started listening to Sam and going, oh shit, yes, yes, yes, yes,

525
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 4: I missed this. This is what But it was good

526
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 4: that I got it when I got it, because then

527
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 4: I was not only able to listen to the pop

528
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: stuff and appreciate what an underrated, one of the all

529
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 4: time underrated, great foundational pop songwriter as he was, because

530
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 4: you know, if we forget how foundational he was to

531
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: the writing what we call pop songs, not just soul

532
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 4: or R and B whatever, Sam Cook and Buddy Holly

533
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 4: were right there formulating what became pop music. And interestingly

534
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 4: enough is you know they were friends, they were very

535
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 4: close friends. But yeah, so it was Rod who took

536
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 4: me back to Sam. And that's when like the door

537
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 4: opened up again. I thought, yeah, And I always felt

538
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 4: in my heart if Sam had lived, he would have

539
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 4: been doing what Rod wound up doing. And I have

540
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 4: I always felt. I even said this to Rod, I

541
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 4: really feel like you have a walk in you know,

542
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 4: because when we when we love people and we know

543
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 4: people love us, the different layers of our physical existence,

544
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 4: of the different layers of our existence, the frequencies that

545
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 4: stayed closest to the earth, you know, the densest as

546
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 4: obviously we burn it or we bury it. Then there's

547
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: this magnetic field that goes to the people who love

548
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 4: us and who we know we can leave some of

549
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 4: this too. They will continue some of our work or

550
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 4: our spirit, or will take some of our cross upon themselves,

551
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 4: and they will continue forward with that vibe.

552
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: All right.

553
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 3: So for me, like I'll say, like a never dull

554
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: moment in Lantic Crossing, I like my two favorite ride albums,

555
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: But for you, like, what's your go to albums of his?

556
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 4: First of all, let me give him ecses his flowers.

557
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 4: The man has an unerring ear for songs. He's a

558
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 4: great producer whatever whoever's producing him, or he's just got

559
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 4: an unimpeachable ear for songs and great musicianship. For me,

560
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 4: he's never made an album where I just thought, well, okay,

561
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 4: that's a waste of time. And he's made tons of them.

562
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 4: But I would have to say around that period but

563
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 4: loose and fantasy free. Tonight, I'm yours.

564
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: Ah tonight, I'm yours. Do anything that you won't be.

565
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: But check this out. The story was I was in

566
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 4: the military. I was stationed in hand Out, Germany. The

567
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 4: base no longer exists. Third Arm at the in the

568
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 4: barracks across from our barracks was a big rec center

569
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 4: and at the very top was some broom closets, and

570
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 4: I went out and bought the cassette of Tonight I'm

571
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 4: yours because up to that point I had like this nice,

572
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: sweet choirboard tenor okay, and my determination was I wasn't

573
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 4: gonna come out of this closet, No pun intended.

574
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: Until you sing like Rod or something. Until I sang

575
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: like Rod, Wait what?

576
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 4: Until I had that voice ye had Because I had this,

577
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 4: I had the sweet, nice Michael Jackson, E Stevie type

578
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 4: of vibe. Cultivating a long way. Frank Sinatra was another

579
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: huge influence. I had all that, but I wanted that

580
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 4: other thing.

581
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: So the rasp comes from because you do have like

582
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: three distinctive voices, your rasp voice and then a very

583
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 3: sweet falsetto, and then you're your natural tenor. So you're

584
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: saying that Rod Stewart is the impetus of that that

585
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: grap what Yes, yes.

586
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: All that Maggie may wake up Maggie Young. The first

587
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 4: cut is the deepest, for real, all that, all of

588
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 4: that stuff, Baby Jane, Okay, one of my favorite songs.

589
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 4: Yes you're right, you think I'm sexy. It's just come on, man,

590
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: do you think I'm sex? He's one of the records

591
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 4: of life. It's just.

592
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: Has he ever told you the Young Turk story?

593
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: No, I don't think I got it directly from him.

594
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, No, just recently he did a benefit And

595
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 3: I'm always obsessed and you do this a lot too.

596
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: I'm always obsessed with song titles that have nothing to

597
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: do with what's said in the song. Yeah, And in

598
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 3: my mind, I'm like, you're saying young Hearts, right, You're

599
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: not saying young Turks. And I think Michael Jackson at

600
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 3: the same situation when Heartbreak Hotel basically like the publisher

601
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: and the managers like, look, there's already a song called

602
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 3: Young Hearts out there, and people are going to confuse

603
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: the two and it's gonna make the paperwork difficult.

604
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 4: And there's also the famous story of Radio Gaga from

605
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 4: Queen that he was never singing Gaga, but the record

606
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 4: company didn't feel comfortable with him actually putting Radio Coca

607
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 4: because he was saying all he is on the radio

608
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 4: is ship in these days. Oh and if you listen now, okay, yoh,

609
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 4: then when you don't think you're supposed to be hearing

610
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 4: Gaga and you will hear Coca. All we hear is

611
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 4: radio Coca.

612
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 3: Makes sense now boom, all right, look at you are

613
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: your schooling.

614
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 4: We have to converse more often.

615
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 3: Yes, oh no, no, this is the greatest first conversation ever.

616
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: Our journey through life is so parallel, from living in

617
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 3: America to moving the Kennish town, to all these things.

618
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: Even as you tell you the story of your family

619
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: and all that, like, yes, I'm not shared that on

620
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 3: the air, but same story. By I think ten twelve thirteen,

621
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 3: you kind of know what your calling is. What is

622
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 3: it that you desired to be before you.

623
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: Were eighteen years old? Like, what do you think your

624
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: calling was?

625
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 4: Well, at various times, I wanted to be a marine

626
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 4: biologist for a short period of time, but I was

627
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 4: serious about it. I wanted to be a journalist for

628
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 4: a very long time and went to university for one

629
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 4: year with the intent that explains it getting accredited. Yeah, okay,

630
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 4: well there you go.

631
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 3: Because your lyrics are just absolutely of course you went

632
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 3: to school for journalism.

633
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: I wanted to be Okay, now I get it, I

634
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: get it.

635
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was gonna be my jam. I was quite

636
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 4: certain in my heart that if I didn't make it

637
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 4: as the heavyweight champion of the world, Okay, then when

638
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 4: I realized that my body type did not lend itself

639
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 4: towards me becoming a heavyweight before the fort then I

640
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 4: downsized to the middleweight champion of the world. And then

641
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 4: I had my epiphany when I won the Golden Gloves

642
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 4: for the State of Florida in nineteen eighty during my

643
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: eighteenth year, when I was beating this kid and his

644
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 4: mother was very emotionally supporting him and cheering him on,

645
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 4: and I had an epiphetic moment that whatever I went

646
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 4: into boxing to accomplish or to ascertain from the experience

647
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 4: I had gotten it, I had proven something vital to myself.

648
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 4: I was tough. I was just littler than everybody else

649
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 4: for a long time, and you know, I needed to

650
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 4: do something to assert myself in that particular way. But

651
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 4: there was one point when I was hitting this kid

652
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 4: in the face pretty easily and to hear his mother's impassion,

653
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 4: you know, please to him to do better. I realized

654
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 4: in that moment that the spirit it didn't put me

655
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: on the earth to be hitting mother's children in the face.

656
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 2: So you were going to be a boxer. You you're

657
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: a Golden Gloves winner.

658
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 4: Yes, in nineteen eighty state for the State of Florida.

659
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 4: I'll never forget that. It was in Coconut Grove in

660
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 4: an Arena and Coconut Grove in Miami. But I just

661
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 4: remember that that I actually didn't even fight after that

662
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 4: fight because the next fight was the fight for the title.

663
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 4: But the guy that I was doing to fight had

664
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 4: to pull out at the last minute because of some

665
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 4: bullshit I I still don't understand. But anyway, that's how

666
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 4: I got the title. But that was also one of

667
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: those epathetic experiences where I realized it was time to

668
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 4: leave that part of warrior training alone and come back

669
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 4: to the main arena.

670
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: So in some alternate life, like you could have been

671
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 3: fighting like Ray Boom Boom Mantini or like question.

672
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 4: That was really good. I was shockingly good for someone

673
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 4: who basically pretty much wasn't support in any other type

674
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 4: of athletic endeavor. I mean I was always you know,

675
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 4: I was a great I love love baseball. It was

676
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 4: my favorite sport. I was a great little baseball player.

677
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 4: But I didn't have any ass, you know, I couldn't

678
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 4: get the ball much further than saying. And so you know,

679
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 4: these coaches don't have any patients. You know, we just

680
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 4: need to fact them up. You know, I'm just this kid.

681
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 4: We got all the potential in the world, but you

682
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 4: couldn't strike me out. I knew it instantly where the

683
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 4: ball was going the meat the minute it left the bat.

684
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 4: I wasn't the fastest kid by a long shot on

685
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 4: the team, but I knew I was still based. I

686
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 4: was all instinct and everything was just pure instinct. Like basketball.

687
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 4: I didn't have any height. I couldn't shoot worth the shit,

688
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 4: but I was a great defender, great rebounder, great passer.

689
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 4: And the more difficult the shot, the more likely I

690
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: was to make it. The easier the percentage of shot,

691
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 4: the higher percentage shot it was, the lower percentage it

692
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 4: was going to get for me, you know what I mean.

693
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 4: But the point is that I kept trying to find

694
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 4: my athletic new you, and I could never find it

695
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 4: until by accident, I discovered that I had a natural

696
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 4: instinct for boxing. During the nineteen seventy six Olympics, that

697
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 4: great great Olympics, when you had Ray Davis, Sugar, Ray Leonard,

698
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 4: I forget there was like three or four guys on

699
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 4: that squad who all went to become to become great champions.

700
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 4: But yeah, I was a cousin of mine had come

701
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 4: down from Jersey to visit ust In, Florida, and we

702
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 4: went into the laundry room after one of the boxing

703
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 4: matches and we started piling a bunch of athletic socks

704
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 4: on our fists. We started punching each other and I

705
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 4: noticed I was really good at it. Next thing, you know,

706
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 4: I had gotten the respect that I needed and I

707
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 4: had proven to myself what I needed until I got

708
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 4: like I said, I got the sign that this part

709
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 4: of your training is over all.

710
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: Right.

711
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 3: So now that I know that you are a real sportshead,

712
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 3: now I really have to analyze the Kobe and Lebron

713
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 3: song because just to see your song titles alone it

714
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: is one thing, but to experience it, I was like, Wow,

715
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 3: this is really risky way to go. But in my

716
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: mind I always said that serious musicians aren't sports heads.

717
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: But you know, time and time again, I'm proving wrong. Yeah,

718
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 3: you know, so now I have to get serious about

719
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: my my sports passion.

720
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: So no, it's just.

721
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 4: That it's you know, the triangular, the triangulation of singers

722
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 4: want to be athletes, Athletes want to be rock stars,

723
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 4: rock stars when moose stars, it's that thing. It's like

724
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: we all want. But you know, I had a conversation

725
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 4: with someone actually quite recently about the fact that it's

726
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 4: still the average guy if you gave him a choice,

727
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:53,959
Speaker 4: a Musk okay, and Bruce Springsteen Okay, well, Elon Musk

728
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 4: and Michael Jordan's fuck Elon Musk. You know what I'm saying,

729
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: that's just it's just billions and billions never have to

730
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 4: work there in your life. But if dude can be

731
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 4: like Tiger Woods or Wayne Gretzky or like you know,

732
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 4: for just like.

733
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: That summer a hero, yes.

734
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 4: Those people, you can be rinaldo when all of those

735
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 4: people in your nation are cheering for you. There's nothing

736
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 4: like that. There's nothing like being you know, like Bruce

737
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 4: and you can play for fucking almost four hours and

738
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 4: people are still rapturously drenched and ready to receive more

739
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 4: from the what, you know, the utter inces that fall,

740
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 4: you know, from the grace of your table. I mean,

741
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 4: that's incredible to be able to to to have that

742
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 4: kind of position and understand why society or polite society

743
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 4: have always been so wary of those of us who

744
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 4: practice this magic that they cannot contain because it is

745
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 4: a very, very very powerful for us, and it can

746
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 4: just take your mind somewhere else away. It can challenge

747
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 4: the programming. And we know that all societies that are

748
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 4: going to ben fit as how it sees itself as

749
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 4: a society, there's going to be some programming involved that

750
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 4: we collectively agree to undergo in order to be this

751
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 4: kind of relatively cohesive thing called the society where we're

752
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 4: pretty much all on the same page.

753
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: I didn't ask earlier where are you currently residing?

754
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: Where do you live?

755
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 4: Well? The last twenty one years, twenty two perhaps I've

756
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 4: been living in Milano.

757
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 2: Oh, Italy. Yes, okay, man, I've been there a few times.

758
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 2: I never knew that. Okay.

759
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: Or so do you do you still follow Are you

760
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 3: still passionate about sports?

761
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: Now? Do you follow it? Well?

762
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 4: It's a great distraction for us, because you know, we'll

763
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 4: consumed this thing of ours like Kosstra, but where this

764
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 4: thing is our life. It's like, you know, I say

765
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 4: to people all the time, it's not like you know,

766
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 4: what would you do if you weren't doing this, that's

767
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 4: not even a question that you know. That's this is

768
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 4: what life is is about. For me, it's consuming, it's

769
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 4: it's sometimes just so much as it can torment you

770
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 4: as a beast. So the other thing, the other things, films,

771
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 4: sports books, those are the great distractions that are right

772
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 4: there at your fingertips, excuse me, you can immerse yourself

773
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 4: in because also with storytellers, So you need to fall

774
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 4: back into these other disciplines to not only get yourself rested,

775
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 4: to give your mind a place to tune off somewhere else,

776
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 4: you know, less challenging, but also just to keep up

777
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 4: with with the stories and the things that you know

778
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 4: are part of our whole me and you of presentation

779
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 4: as artists, you know, you got to just keep your

780
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 4: hand involved in the arts and be immersed in it

781
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: if you want to remain an active participant and relevant

782
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 4: to where it is emotionally. So, you know, for me,

783
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 4: it's interesting because a person that I identify a lot

784
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 4: with is Bosquio. He's one of my three favorite. Boscot,

785
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 4: Dhali and Picasso are like gods to me. And in fact,

786
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 4: I had a project that I was going to call Boscot.

787
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 4: In fact, it was interesting because I want to This

788
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 4: is something I was going to plan to talk to

789
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 4: you about as well, but it got postponed because of

790
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: the Boscou estate wrongly assumed that I was trying to

791
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 4: you know, edge edge something onto my plate from them.

792
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 4: It was, of course, and his people at that particular

793
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 4: time were not very hip and young. They were more

794
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 4: like guardians and gatekeepers, so they didn't get it. But

795
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 4: the conceit of the project is that Bosco his secret desire,

796
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 4: his unfulfilled desire, was to be in a punk rock band,

797
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 4: and that he was in a band, and that years

798
00:44:53,520 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 4: later cassettes was discovered. Yeah, and so with this this

799
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 4: in mind, what did those tapes sound like? And that

800
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 4: was the conceit of this bout Scout project is to

801
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 4: me to undertake to provide the music for the secret

802
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 4: music he was making that he didn't live long enough

803
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 4: to find the courage to release or whatever to press

804
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 4: himself for in that direction. But maybe even so more

805
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 4: so than being an artist, what he really wanted to

806
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 4: be was a fucking rock star.

807
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: Have you ever met Michael Holloman at all?

808
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 4: Not that I'm aware of Michael Holloman.

809
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 3: You know, I do a lot of side projects, and

810
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 3: one of my also wishes was to hear what that

811
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: music sounded like. So I did this at the Brooklyn

812
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: Academy Museum, I think in twenty twelve. But I had

813
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 3: his partner in that group, Michael Hollman, whom I guess

814
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 3: our listeners would probably know if you ever google any

815
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 3: New York City Breakers footage them on Soul Train or

816
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 3: whoever their spokesperson is. Michael Hollman was kind of the

817
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: official spokesperson for the New York city Breakers, but not

818
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 3: many people know that they were the black punk art

819
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 3: It's reductive to say wham, but I'm just trying to

820
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: figure out a duo or whatever. But Michael was his

821
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: partner in that band called Gray And so I think

822
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 3: one of the biggest misconceptions about you was through the

823
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: gaze and the lens of rock journalists born in the forties.

824
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: Really, and the thing is, let me give you a preface.

825
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 3: So tomorrow, after two years of working on this, my

826
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 3: follow up film to Summer Soul is the Sign of

827
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 3: the Family Stone.

828
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 4: Documentary, Oh awesome, thank you so much.

829
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: Oh You're not ready for this shit, You're not ready.

830
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: And also I'm kicking myself because you would have been

831
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 3: the perfect oh beyond. However, this is what I'm learning,

832
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: especially of a certain generation of like critics, critics that

833
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 3: you have to face. Yeah, the Dave Mars generation, the

834
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: Rolling Stone born in nineteen forties.

835
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I get you. I get you. To this day,

836
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 4: I can't read well. To this day, I can't go.

837
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: Then, brother, I get it. I get it now.

838
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 4: I mean, just in case there's something besides some more

839
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 4: lists that these motherfuckers put together. But anyway, I get it.

840
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: I get it.

841
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, but see if I can, for example, even the

842
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 4: cultural divide between the stick I was running in England

843
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 4: and not having time to recalibrate the fact that the

844
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 4: same potion won't work on the Americans because they don't

845
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 4: have They're just not as academically grounded for as long

846
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 4: a period of time as the English, and it's their

847
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 4: language we speak anyway. Plus they have something we don't,

848
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 4: which is appreciation of irony. In any event, some of

849
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 4: them were aware that I was just dusting off of

850
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 4: Muhammad Ali routine, just trying to hype and sell directly,

851
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 4: because at the end of the day, I didn't believe

852
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 4: any of this shit I was just but I.

853
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 3: So you're saying that the interviews that you would give

854
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 3: like enemy could go down easier there, but here with

855
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: rolling Stone, Yes, suddenly you're the most arrogant.

856
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And then there and then I've always tried to

857
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 4: be a gentleman, to be real about my shit. And

858
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 4: then there was just one of the first journalists I

859
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 4: spoke to my America. She was upset that I didn't

860
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 4: try to fuck her, so, you know, she wound up

861
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 4: doing a smear piece just based on again an interpretation

862
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 4: of an act. You know, I'm sure you met him,

863
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 4: but Muhammad was nothing like his image. He was trying

864
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 4: to sell tickets. He knew whether you came to see him,

865
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 4: winna lose. You can't.

866
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 3: I knew you were doing the Muhammad Ali thing. I knew,

867
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 3: and I was sixteen at the time reading that cover story.

868
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 4: But me thing was interesting QUESTI because I remember it

869
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,959
Speaker 4: was a young journalist and it was for the cover.

870
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 4: I'm I was really excited. And then of course I

871
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 4: was too naive to catch this trick. He turns off

872
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 4: the tape recorder says, Okay, we're finished. Then he looks

873
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 4: at me and he says, but seriously, how good do

874
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 4: you think you are? You really are? And you know,

875
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 4: I'm like twenty three some twenty four. I'm not even

876
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 4: sure what a kind of question is this. You know,

877
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 4: I come from the hood, you know, it's like it's

878
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 4: like and and one thing we learn is that, you know,

879
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 4: you used to go to like the throing Cookman talent shows,

880
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 4: you know, doing Cookman College, and you learn quickly if

881
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 4: you don't entertain these motherfuckers, you become the entertainment. Either way,

882
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 4: they're gonna get the entertainment either threw you or from you,

883
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 4: or you know, but so you you kind of Plus,

884
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 4: I was born in New York, and there is a

885
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 4: certain swagger. There is a certain swagger that IM views

886
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 4: upon those of us who are born there and grew

887
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 4: up there, and and I think all those things together,

888
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 4: but you know, basically I didn't believe all that that shit.

889
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 4: But any of the interview, the guy asked, so, how

890
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 4: good do you think you are? And I'm not sure

891
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 4: if he's serious, but I just look at him, says

892
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 4: think I'm a fucking gene, you know what I mean.

893
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 4: But I also didn't believe that at the time. But

894
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,959
Speaker 4: I also did believe that I could get there much

895
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 4: easier if I did believe it. It was one of

896
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 4: those things where from the earliest moment I heard the word,

897
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 4: it resonated something of recognition aside me like, well, I

898
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 4: don't know what this means, but I think I might

899
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 4: have some of this or what have you. But it's

900
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 4: snowballs from there. And as you know, then at some

901
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 4: point you don't have to say anything. They start to

902
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 4: give quotes to what is a profile and what they

903
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 4: feel like people will accept this from him because we're

904
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 4: already presenting him as this kind of guy who would

905
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 4: say this kind of shit. So yeah, that definitely was

906
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 4: a situation. But there's also another element I found, which

907
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 4: is when you're erodyite and you can speak for yourself,

908
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 4: they get into this savior complex thing. What they want

909
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 4: to be the ones to interpret how brilliant they it's

910
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 4: on them because they loved it. Well. They often prefer

911
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 4: that image of the idiot savancee who is brilliant. But

912
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 4: it just doesn't oh, because you know, we didn't have

913
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 4: much of an education, and I think I was I

914
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 4: experienced being too intimidating for some of them because I

915
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 4: was reading the same shit they were reading. I was

916
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 4: reading the same journalist, Nick Kent, and all these guts

917
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 4: that they were growing up on and reviewing.

918
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 3: All right, folks, I got good news and bad news,

919
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 3: bad news of courses. It's the end of part one.

920
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 3: Good news is that you can check back next week,

921
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 3: you know, to where you get your podcasts, depending on

922
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 3: when you listen for the great part too. And there

923
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 3: we're going to discuss h Sonanda's catalog, including his new album,

924
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 3: The Pegasus Project, Pegasus and the Swan. We also talk

925
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 3: about life turning points and uh Sonanda nearly joining an excess.

926
00:51:49,840 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 3: Yeah that all right, see y'all next week.

927
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For

928
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

929
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.