1 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. 2 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: This is Cow's Week in Review with Ryan cow Klan. 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: Here's cal, Hey, what's happening there? Every Col's Week in 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: Review listener. This week we got a very special podcast 5 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: following up as per usual with other things that we've 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 2: talked about on the pod. Namely, this week we are 7 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 2: talking about this unfortunately recurring situation of a bunch of 8 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 2: knuckleheads wanting to take our publicly accessible, federally managed lands 9 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: for reasons unknown, but if we had to put a 10 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: guess on it, it'd probably be for short term profit failure. 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 2: To look further on the end of your nose from 12 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: a land management perspective and value perspective. Last week or 13 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 2: the week before, I had talked probably a little too 14 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: long for you about the amazing opportunity that we have 15 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: to look at what's happening in the state of Florida 16 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: with their state managed land, state owned and managed lands, 17 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: where there's a current petition where Ron DeSantis and his 18 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: cabinet are just getting their teeth kicked in because they 19 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: obviously don't spend any time outside with the people, and 20 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: the people are saying this proposal to maximize state profits 21 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: on state owned recreation land through the building of hotels, 22 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: pickleball courts, golf courses, golf courses in areas where the 23 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: average joe public can still access pristine beach see in 24 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 2: danger and threatened wildlife. That stuff's just not not can 25 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: fly iron and it's perfect because that's our major fear. 26 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: When people bring up this idea of a land transfer 27 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: or sale or management trade of federally managed and maintained 28 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 2: lands to the state government, the states are typically mandated 29 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: to maximize profits on those state run lands, and this 30 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: example in Florida could be the example in Utah. I 31 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: say Utah because right now Utah has a lawsuit against 32 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: the federal government to try to take eighteen and a 33 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: half million acres of federally managed lands for the state 34 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: of Utah. That's a little rough shot explanation, but just 35 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: as you know in the because I'm self aware, believe 36 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: it or not, I have a special guest, Patrick Berry, 37 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 2: CEO of Backhuntry Hunters and Anglers, who's going to help 38 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: us run through this situation. We're going to figure out 39 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: who the players are, what we need to know, and 40 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 2: how to get involved. So Patrick you've been on the 41 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: pod once before, how things gone. 42 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: Good? I will tell you that I find this issue 43 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: in Utah has supercharged myself along with the rest of 44 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: the BHA staff and the Utah chapter as well. We've 45 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: got an incredibly effective, experienced BHA chapter in Utah and 46 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: we've been coordinatings with them. So I would say, in 47 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: addition to that long list of things to do, this 48 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: has certainly helped inspire and get everybody pretty fired up, because, 49 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: as you well know, cal this exact issue is such 50 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: a prime example of the reason why back country hunters 51 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: and Anglers exists. 52 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know North America wide, if people 53 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: had to associate BHA with one issue, it would be 54 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: access to public lands and the conservation of public lands. 55 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And this is not the first time that we've 56 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: ended up doing battle with leaders in the State of 57 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: Utah over public lands issues. And in a lot of ways, 58 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: the state of Utah has been in ground zero for 59 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: public land grabs just like this one. This particular case 60 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: is a little bit more concerning, frankly, because the stakes 61 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: are incredibly high. It's the implications reach potentially reach well 62 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: beyond Utah and just these lands that they identify and 63 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: I cannot dig into that one a little bit more. 64 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: If you want, cal. 65 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, do you can you give us a good 66 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: synopsis of like, how is this even a possibility? 67 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: What? 68 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: What's the state of Utah trying to prove here? 69 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, there's a there's a long history within 70 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: the state of Utah trying to grab the federally owned 71 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: lands within the state's borders, which is really interesting because 72 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: Article three of the Utah Constitution expressly says that they 73 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: will basically abdicate any claim to federal land at the 74 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: time of statehood, So they're going back on what's in 75 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: their own constitution. But basically, this is a pattern in 76 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: Utah that started back in twenty twelve twenty fourteen with 77 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: a lawsuit. As you pointed out, a lot of the 78 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: leaders in Utah got their teeth kicked in for trying 79 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: to take land owned by all Americans. There was a 80 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: retread in twenty seventeen when a Congressional representative Chafits from 81 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: Utah tried to do something similar, although not at this 82 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: scale it was three million acres, and got his teeth 83 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: ticked in and ended up apologizing to the sportsmen and 84 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: women in this country for seeing the error of his ways. 85 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: And here we are again in this particular case. It 86 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: seems to be a bit of a tantrum reacting to 87 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: a rule that BLM had moved forward, which basically follows 88 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: the VLM mission to make sure that when they're managing 89 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: their lands, they're considering a lot of different uses, including 90 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: conservation values, which benefit sportsmen and women and other outdoor 91 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: recreational enthusiasts tremendously. And they didn't like that, so they 92 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: filed this suit and their goal is to and this 93 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: is why there are these far reaching implicationscal because what 94 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: they're doing is they are questioning the constitutionality of whether 95 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: the federal government can own these quote unquote unappropriated lands. 96 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: The problem is that in our constitution, there is very 97 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: clear authority that Congress has over federal lands, and it 98 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: does not distinguish between federal agency or land type. So 99 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: with that ambiguity out there, there's the potential that, depending 100 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: on how the Supreme Court might rule on this, it 101 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: would be far more than just the eighteen and a 102 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: half million acres of these quote unquote unappropriated lands, because 103 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: there are actually of these subtype of lands there's about 104 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: two hundred and ten million acres. But beyond that, if 105 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: the authority of the federal government comes into question whether 106 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: they can own lands, fend this stretches to every corner 107 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: of this country and has far reaching implications. So the 108 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: stakes are pretty damn high. 109 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: And as far as you know, the kind of inside 110 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: access to folks who really understand policy and this part 111 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 2: of the law where the question really is whether or 112 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: not the federal government can own land, which is something 113 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 2: that we've heard over and over and over again, despite 114 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: their being from the time the country was established to 115 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: now lots of precedent saying that yes, the United States 116 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: government can own land. So is this old Sagebrush rebellion 117 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: stuff or is this new stuff? 118 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: It's a combination of both. This is a carryover of 119 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: the same sentiments that were espouse during the sage Brush 120 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: Rebellion and everything that's happened since then. But what's newer 121 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: here is the scale not just for the lands identified, 122 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: but also the potential for what that means well beyond 123 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: the borders of Utah. And what else is new is 124 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: I have to say this is about one of the 125 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: most polished attempts at gas lighting i've ever seen leaders 126 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: within the state of Utah are using the catchphrase that 127 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: they are going to keep public lands in public hands, 128 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: which I think we all know is akin to the 129 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: governor trying to sell some ocean front property around the 130 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: Provo area. So that's that's what's new, much more polished 131 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: gas lighting effort and far reaching implications well beyond the 132 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: borders of the state. 133 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: Yet, saying that federally managed lands are not public lands 134 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: in public hands and transferring them to the state is 135 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: when they then become publicly accessible. Is is It's kind 136 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: of like walking past a bowl to go kill a bowl, 137 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 2: walking walking past the steelhead to go catch the steelhead, 138 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: right like it's it's ours right now. 139 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: Well, I mean if and if you think about the implications, 140 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: even for the state, there are no winners here unless 141 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: you are the beneficiary. At the end of this, let's 142 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: say that Utah prevails, they'll lose. Sportsmen and women across 143 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: as country lose. But if you are lucky enough to 144 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: be able to I mean, we can well we should 145 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: definitely talk about the economics to this. They'll have no 146 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: choice but to divest of a lot of these assets. 147 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: They just won't be able to afford to own them all. 148 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: So if you're if you've got some deep pockets and 149 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: you can buy your own hunting oasis, you'll benefit. And 150 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: if you are in the extractive industries and or you 151 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: are rancher that wants to graze, you could potentially view 152 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: as benefiting from this. But it's also worth noting that 153 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: the grazing fees on bl On land are about a 154 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: buck thirty five and on Utah owned property it's well 155 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: over six bucks. So I don't know if there's a 156 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: win there either. 157 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I haven't done the math on what 158 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 2: it means when the state has to foot a bill 159 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 2: for wild fire suppression, But that's an example that gets 160 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: brought up of like, Okay, here's a huge financial burden 161 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 2: on the state. How do they recoup those expenses all 162 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: sorts of natural disasters before federal dollars, ironically enough come 163 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 2: in to help carry that burden, And you know a 164 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: number of other things. But like to remind people what 165 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: we see across the country with state owned lands is 166 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: I mean, just in Idaho, which is highly regarded as 167 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: a pro sportsman state, there's state owned property that is 168 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: not de facto public access it's there's a very swanky 169 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: European style hunt club on a chunk of state section. 170 00:12:54,720 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: There's some more hunt club provisions in that state, and 171 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: people would never know about it unless you knew. So 172 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: that type of leasing kind of falls in the same 173 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: category of a timber lease or grazing lease, a farm 174 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: lease that is built into that state revenue model. You know, 175 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: in Montana, it's more de facto public access to state land. 176 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: Colorado has never been that way. That is de facto 177 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: private property, not public access, and people do need to 178 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: be aware of this stuff. The other interesting thing that 179 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: our dear friend Ted Cook likes to bring up, it's 180 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 2: often the frustrations of federal government management that allows for 181 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: a lot of the liberties that we have on federally 182 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: managed lands, meaning that yes, there's some burdensome bureaucracy, but 183 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 2: because of the wheels moving so slow there, oftentimes we 184 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 2: don't get crazy swings in management. So when we hear 185 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: about these scary things of like, oh, you know, dev 186 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: Holland's gonna make it illegal to have firearms on federal ground, right, 187 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: which was a rumor when the Secretary of State took 188 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: over during the current administration, it takes so long for 189 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: something to get enacted that oftentimes we have new management 190 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: in place and the pendulum swings back the other way 191 00:14:54,120 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: before anything actually happens. Whereas state government, the potential for 192 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: something scary to happen, in my opinion, is much higher. 193 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: Well absolutely, I mean, trying to make changes in the 194 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: within the federal land system is like trying to turn 195 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: a tanker as opposed to you know, the state land system, 196 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: which you know, not some one of them sparkly bass 197 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: boats that go really fast and can turn quickly, but 198 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: certainly it can turn faster. A lot of the state 199 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: owned property across the country comes with strings attached, right, 200 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: So wildlife management areas we're often funded through US Mishial 201 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: Wildlife Service, and there are pretty specific requirements about what 202 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: you can and can't do. But and the example of 203 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: and that's why you know, you've mentioned the variability from 204 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: state to state over you know, different types of management. 205 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: But in the example of Utah, there would be no 206 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: strings attached. They would simply own that land out right. 207 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: And they have certainly shown as I think you reference 208 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: when you talked about this last time, Cal I mean, 209 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: at the time of statehood. They were granted state trust lands, 210 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: which were set aside to help fund schools and presumably 211 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: through management and leases and that sort of thing. But 212 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: and the best example I can think of the old 213 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: burning furniture to eat the house, they've actually managed to 214 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: auction off about half of those state trust lands. So 215 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: regardless of what they may say, no, of course not, 216 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: we would never ever get rid of public access in 217 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: public lands. They have a history of doing just that. 218 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: And unlike the BLM, which you know, they don't have 219 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: bills to pay, right, I mean, in fact, you know 220 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: all Americans support the federal agencies that oversee these lands 221 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: to make sure that you know, there's well managers can 222 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: be based on congressional appropriations. Utah, like a lot of states, 223 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: they got to balance budget amendment, so they have no 224 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: choice but to balance the budget every year. And I 225 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: know that the numbers have changed, and even on the 226 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: state's own FAQs. As the remarkable bit of propaganda trying 227 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: to get these lands, they acknowledge they have no idea 228 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: what the stewardship, maintenance, fire suppression costs would be. But 229 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: if you look back and yeah, you know it's about 230 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: ten years old. The last time there was an analysis 231 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: done of the State of Utah taking you know, basically 232 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: grabbing up chunks of better land. It was pretty clear 233 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: by third party economists and the University of Utah that 234 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: this was an economic death trap for the State of Utah, 235 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: that they would bankrupt themselves pretty quickly, which means they'd 236 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: have no choice but to auction off land to be 237 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: able to pay for the rest of that maintenance. And 238 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: they sure as heck wouldn't be able to benefit from 239 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: any sort of long term future leases for whatever activities 240 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: because they won't own them anymore. 241 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 2: And you know, just doing some quick and dirty math too, 242 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 2: I think the State of Utah gained about two billion 243 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: dollars for the sale of the It was fifty four 244 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 2: of their state owned lands since statehood, and it was 245 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: somewhere like four and a half million acres or four 246 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: point something. But they equates about five hundred dollars an acre. 247 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, I hadn't done that math. And 248 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: actually I saw I think Cali I saw you reference 249 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: that too, which is is pretty remarkable. I mean, talk 250 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: about a fire sale pun not intended for a lot 251 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: of this acreage that you know, once it's gone, it's gone. 252 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: For good. And that's the biggest challenge. I mean, I 253 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: couldn't even tell you which pieces of federally owned land 254 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: I've been on in Utah, but there's been a bunch 255 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: of different ones that you know, I feel blessed that 256 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: in this country we have, uh there's there's a lot 257 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: of unique things about our hunting and fishing heritage that 258 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: we enjoy, and public land and the ability to access 259 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: that and uh get away and enjoy a lot of 260 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: the free time that that we need. That that doesn't 261 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: exist for a lot of people because not everyone has 262 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,239 Speaker 1: the means to own their you know, own chunk of 263 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: property where they can go hunting with themselves and their buddies. 264 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: And you know, generations of sportsmen and women have relied 265 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: on these public resources that we all own to get 266 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: out there and and you know, passed down our hunting 267 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: and fishing heritage. And I that's part of the mystery 268 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: here too. And pretty much all the material that the 269 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: State of Utah is putting out, they keep referencing Utah's 270 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: lands and needing to do it's best for the citizens 271 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: of Utah. Not only will then not be the case 272 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: that Utahon's will benefit, but the reality is these aren't 273 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: Utah's lands. They're your lance, cal their mine, right there, 274 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: everybody who's an American citizen, and that is just such 275 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: an incredible legacy that we need to I mean, this 276 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: is again, this is why, you know, one of the 277 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: key reasons why VHA exists is to make sure that 278 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: we maintain that public land to pass down for generations, 279 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, for everyone to enjoy and for a lot 280 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: of folks they may not be able to afford to 281 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: do anything else except access to those public lands. And 282 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: that's a beautiful part of this country. 283 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, And and you know, I do think 284 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 2: also too, like some of the people that are screaming 285 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: in favor of this lawsuit to go through and a 286 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: state transfer to happen, have way more in common with 287 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: the general sporting community that's in favor of federally managed lands, 288 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 2: or if not, you know, totally in favor. They are 289 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 2: very much aligned with the fact that the system that 290 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 2: is in place is the best example of public access 291 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 2: and public use in the world. And if you can 292 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: bring something better to the table and prove that it's better, sure, 293 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: but this ain't it. You know, I sympathize with like 294 00:21:54,640 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 2: you brought up folks who have grazing leases. You know, 295 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 2: it's it's tough running cattle these days. The folks who 296 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 2: have multi generational hunting traditions at the end of a 297 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: road that is all of a sudden closed, or you know, 298 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: cut firewood in a certain area and all of a 299 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 2: sudden that's closed. But the reality is is that stuff 300 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 2: doesn't all of a sudden get closed because it is 301 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: on federally managed land. There's comment periods and review periods, 302 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 2: and there's so many ways to weigh in. 303 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: That. 304 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I'm preaching to the choir when 305 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: I'm talking about this stuff with the BHA crowd, because 306 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: that's part of the beauty about being involved in BHA. 307 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 2: You get aware of the processes and you can learn 308 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 2: how to effectively advocate and be there when it matters 309 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 2: instead of being like, oh, all of a sudden, out 310 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 2: of the blue, they just closed this, because that's just 311 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: not how the federal government works in regards to land management. 312 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: You know, if you you know, I watched the governor's 313 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: press conference with AG and Senate and House leaders in Utah, 314 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: and you know, they've got a couple of websites that 315 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: do a pretty remarkable job with the propaganda, and you 316 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: if you watched it and you didn't know better, which 317 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people wouldn't, or you didn't think to 318 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: dig into the details, it may sound like something worth considering, 319 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: but it's the damn pesky details every time that get you. 320 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: And one of the claims they make is how awful 321 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: it is that there was three hundred and seventeen miles 322 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: of road that were closed and cut off public access. Well, 323 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: what I've learned is that there was a proposed element 324 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: of the management that h you know, they they look 325 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: at a bunch of different options, and I think from 326 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: what I understand, most of these road closures were in 327 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: Grand County and actually aligned with exactly what the county 328 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: had requested through that management process. In fact, from what 329 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: I understand, the county may have actually been looking for 330 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: even more restrictive access with more closures and the the 331 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: In the end, the BLM, you know, found that compromise 332 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: trying to meet all the interest that with that we're 333 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: out there, but it's it's just an example of the 334 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: of the bs that is coming out of the state 335 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: of Utah regarding a lot of the issues surrounding this 336 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: and it's those details that that matter was. 337 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: But you know, oh it does for sure. You know, 338 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 2: during the last or during the Trump administration, you know, 339 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 2: that was something that they were super hot and heavy on. 340 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 2: Why it was trying to find ways to have more 341 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: public input and taking into account all the way down 342 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 2: to the county commissionary level. And on top of that, 343 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 2: during the same administration, when asked about the possibility of 344 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: transferring federally managed lands to the state, Trump, in a 345 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: very genuine off the cuff way, was like, well, why 346 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,479 Speaker 2: would we do that? They're too valuable, right right, that 347 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: doesn't make business sense. Why why would you get rid 348 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: of an asset like that? 349 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: You know, all right, and take a look at the 350 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: recreation economy around all of these public lands in part 351 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: to the state. Uh. And that's that's another one of 352 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: those interesting head scratching twists that you know. On on 353 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: one hand, you know, the state will tout the remarkable 354 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: economic value to the tune of billions from the recreational 355 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: use of of the public lands within the state of Utah. 356 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: They'll talk about how they have shown their ability to 357 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: you know, work collaboratively with federal agencies. And then the 358 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: next sentence. You know, the AG referred to the relationship 359 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: with federal agencies as a in a quote unquote an 360 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: abusive relationship. And regarding the economic value, they'll talk about 361 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: the you know, highest and best sustained yield you know 362 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: for these lands. Uh So, there again more of those 363 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: pesky details where if you take the time to dig 364 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: into this a little bit, you realize that this no 365 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: one wins unless you're somebody who actually ends up with 366 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: one of these parcels all to yourself. 367 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 2: And you know, just like anybody who's ever bought and 368 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 2: sold the chunk of ground, you know, like you know, 369 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: if you hang on to it long enough, it only 370 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: goes up in value, like they only made so much. 371 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: And so when we talk about, you know, all the 372 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 2: different short answers that haven't been researched as to why 373 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 2: people think this should happen, right, affordable housing for instance. 374 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: And this is you know, my perspective here, This is 375 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 2: an opinion piece. It's like, you know, my own father 376 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 2: scolded me many many times in regards to well, why 377 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 2: would I give you this if you've already proven that 378 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 2: you weren't responsible enough to have right? 379 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was my entire childhood. 380 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 2: Cal Yeah, I just think like this is that exact 381 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 2: same thing. On a grander scale. People are like, Oh, 382 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 2: we just need more, We just need more, and then 383 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 2: we won't screw up what we have them, right, And 384 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 2: it's like, we have all this infrastructure out there that 385 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: I think people are just looking at and they're like, Oh, 386 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: it's too much of a headache to do this here. 387 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: If you give us some pristine new land, we'll do 388 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 2: better job with it. And I think that is such 389 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: a pipe dream, such a short sighted, ridiculous answer. It 390 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 2: just drives me nuts, right. I mean, look at the 391 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: way the Gallaton Valley is exploding, right, Like, we know 392 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: and have known that that valley is going to have 393 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: water quality issues and we're doing nothing about it right now. 394 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 2: But we're taking more and more land to slap up 395 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 2: the houses in the name of affordable housing, which we 396 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 2: desperately need. But it doesn't mean we're doing it in 397 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 2: a smart way. Now, we're just kicking the can down 398 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: the road and letting somebody else deal with the downstream effects. 399 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know to that example too. Look, 400 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: there are a lot of needs that we have in 401 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, in this country and in this world, right, 402 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: I mean, whether it's you know, uh, mining, ranching, logging, 403 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, any number of industries. You know, I'm not 404 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: necessarily about exporting our problems, you know and our needs 405 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: someplace else to another country. But there's definitely a right 406 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: way to do it, and there's definitely a way to 407 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: do it that you know, can balance all of those uses. 408 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 2: Right. 409 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: That's that's BLM's job, right. I mean, they're not beholden 410 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: to any specific interest and they don't have the economic 411 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,479 Speaker 1: pressures to have to lean one way or another. Utah 412 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: will have no choice. They will have to rely on 413 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: either auctioning the land off, as they've shown they've done 414 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: to your point, Like you know, they got a history 415 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: of this stuff, and you know, why would we give 416 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: it more land if they're already you know, selling it 417 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: as is right, And even if they don't necessarily have 418 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: to you know, sell huge chunks of it right away, 419 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: they're definitely going to have to look at allowing private 420 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: interests to benefit from those leases. And with the economic 421 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: pressure that's going to come with stewardship, maintenance, fier suppression 422 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: on a huge you know, chunk of land eighteen and 423 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: a half million acres at least they will have no 424 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: choice but to err on the side of those uses 425 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: that are about profitability, not about balancing the needs of 426 00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: what Americans need. 427 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: So what what can we do here? Right? Like if 428 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: if we we know the threat one of many that 429 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,239 Speaker 2: that we're facing here, but on the Utah subject, like 430 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: how to folks weigh in? 431 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, you know, I as soon as 432 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: this issue came up, cal I, along with you know, 433 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: some handful of VHA staff, we dropped everything and started 434 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: working on this issue, because the more we can elevate 435 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: the value of public land and these threats, right, whether 436 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: it's the Florida example that you gave, or the fact 437 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: that the candidate for Senate in Montana is getting his 438 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: teeth kicked in by saying that the federal land in 439 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: Montana should be should go to the state or the counties. 440 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: There's a pretty solid history here of Americans in general, 441 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: not just sportsmen and women, pushing back when states or 442 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: others try to take this federally owned land. So I 443 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: think what people can do frankly is pay attention and 444 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: share your just disdain for what's happening and your opposition 445 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: for the notion that somehow these lands are only valuable 446 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: if they're owned at the most local level possible and 447 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: not managed in a way that benefits all Americans too. 448 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: And so you know, whether it's your social media channels 449 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: or with your friends or wherever, I think spreading the 450 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: word is really really important to avoid this from happening again. Second, 451 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: I would encourage everyone to call the governor's office in 452 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: Utah tell them to drop the lawsuit. I think a 453 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: lot of us are still scratching our heads why they're 454 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: pushing this because of the implications economically for Utah and 455 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: the implications for all you know, federally owned land will 456 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: on this as well. Third, b h A has a 457 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: petition that we've got online. It's pretty easy to find 458 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: if you go to Backcountry Hunters dot org and and 459 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: sign that petition, and you know it's something you know 460 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: you have chatted about with you before. Cal too is 461 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, Uh, We've got a lot of great partners 462 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: in our space and you know the world of hunting, fishing, 463 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: and conservation, but there really isn't another organization who is 464 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,479 Speaker 1: willing to dive in and take on these kinds of 465 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: fights where we we may not have the resources. We 466 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: didn't get some kind of earmark funding to tackle this issue, 467 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: but it's what we do, it's what matters, and and frankly, 468 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: you know, we need support to make sure we keep 469 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: fighting the good fight here. Uh that if it's it 470 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: may not just be this issue, It's going to be 471 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: another issue and another state too. So uh, that's you know, 472 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: it's really important folks to join b h A and 473 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: and support what we do because we'll take on these 474 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: fights without some kind of earmark sitting in a bank somewhere, 475 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: because we know it is what we do and because 476 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do. So, Yeah, call the 477 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: governor's office, sign a petition, share your opposition, frustration and 478 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,280 Speaker 1: anger with anyone who'll listen, and you know, keep supporting 479 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: us to make sure we can keep taking these fights on. 480 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think a great example of why 481 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 2: there's great things that individuals can do without the help 482 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 2: of an organization. One of the things that an organization 483 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: like BHA helps with is being there when the individuals can't. 484 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 2: It's the BHA job to be in that room while 485 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: everybody else has to go to their nine to five job. So, 486 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 2: you know, recently a great example right, is like the 487 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 2: California Marine Protected Areas situation that we talked about on 488 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 2: this show quite bit. You know, those public meetings, those 489 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: public hearings that the public is involved, you know, invited to. 490 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 2: They're supposed to be there, they're supposed to comment, they're 491 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 2: being held when a huge amount of the parties that 492 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: benefit from public access to public water, public wildlife just 493 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 2: cannot financially be in that room. 494 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: No question. And I can't tell you. Look, you know, 495 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: cal I've only been on the job here, you know, 496 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: for eight months. And you know, fortunately since I was 497 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: a director of a state fish wildlife agency, still know 498 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: a lot of great folks in the field of conservation 499 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: and hunting at fishing advocacy, and I can't tell you 500 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: how often I hear no one shows up like VHA 501 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: shows up. And whether it's our staff or ore you know, 502 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: our chapters to your point right when and everybody else 503 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: is who loves you know, public land, waters, wildlife, hunting, 504 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: those wild places where you know all that magic happens, 505 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: can't show up. We're there to represent our community. And 506 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: and again, you know we man I hear at least 507 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: once a week the value of what we're able to 508 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: do and what we're able to provide, but there's a 509 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's a cost to that, and that's why 510 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: we you know, love to get support from from conservation 511 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 1: minded hunters and anglers who appreciate what we do. 512 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 2: And good way to get an idea of what we 513 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 2: do and and what your membership supports or donation supports 514 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 2: is just signing up for the newsletters. Right, you get 515 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 2: call to actions and you'll get these act Now emails 516 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 2: that outline these issues in a non partisan way, and 517 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 2: you get to at least sign on, and then those 518 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 2: sign on letters can be presented to say, hey, here's 519 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 2: the size of the community that we represent. You need 520 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 2: to rethink your position on this one. 521 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: Yep. And similarly, I often here too, the impact that 522 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: those folks willing to sign onto those letters make, phone calls, 523 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 1: show up, they move the needle, and have have quite 524 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: literally changed the course of a debate that boy, you 525 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: thought it was a foregone conclusion that they were gonna, 526 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, move the Agent Fish Wildlife Department into the 527 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: Agency of Agriculture, as they tried in Kentucky, or you know, 528 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: just given landowners handfuls of tags like they tried and 529 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: can'ts and or basically completely politicizing the wildlife management process. Uh, 530 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: you know right here in Vermont and it is. It's 531 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: it's that active Baha community along with a lot of 532 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: our partners. I mean, you know, like when we work together, 533 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: I think all too often the sporting community has done 534 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: this an amazing job at creating a circular firing squad, 535 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: which is exactly what the bad guys want. But you 536 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: know when when we work together to get people to 537 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: show up and make calls and write letters, it really 538 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: does often change the course of bad things that we 539 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: don't want to have happen and move the good things 540 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: that we do want to have happened. 541 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 2: Heck yeah, heck yeah. Well what obviously you can head 542 00:38:54,480 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 2: over to backhuntry hunters dot org and the associated social 543 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 2: media sites. I encourage everybody to do so, just you know, 544 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 2: learn more and throw your thirty bucks in for the 545 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: year for membership and and read that info that you 546 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 2: get sent. And more importantly, after you read that info, 547 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 2: sign the petitions, make the phone calls, hit the email 548 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 2: now buttons, and get active. This situation in Utah is real, 549 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 2: even though it sounds made up. But this is our 550 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 2: way of life, the heritage, whatever you want to call it, 551 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 2: that really is at stake. 552 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: I can tell you from personal experience that my learning 553 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: curve in hunting, fishing, camping, exploring, I cut my teeth 554 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: on public land resources all across this country because that's 555 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: those are the places that I could go. And I 556 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: know that I am one of millions of people who 557 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: had that same experience and recognize that same value. And 558 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: I would love to have everyone out there who you know, 559 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: values that experience and that opportunity and and knows the 560 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: importance of that legacy to help us out and get involved. 561 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, you know, I got to be honest. We 562 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 2: created an entire outdoor clothing brand through public lands, right, 563 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 2: Like the materials that we use, the technology that we've 564 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 2: found and adapted, that came from pushing ourselves on big, 565 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 2: connected pieces of public land, things that you just cannot 566 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 2: find in the in the private estate. You know, Yeah, 567 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 2: there's a lot of private acres dedicated to wildlife, but 568 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: if you don't have access to them, it's hard to 569 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 2: know what that's like. So it's it's integral to hunting 570 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 2: in North America, and we got to keep it that way. 571 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 2: So public public landowner, right, public Land's proud. That's right. 572 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: I've got about six of those shirts just so that 573 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,479 Speaker 1: since I don't do my laundry, but about every couple 574 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,399 Speaker 1: of months, I always have a fresh one I can 575 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: pull out of the drawer. 576 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure, Well that's awesome, Patrick, Thank you so 577 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 2: much for coming on. Anything else you want to throw 578 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 2: out there before we go. 579 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: No, I just appreciate you taking the time to talk 580 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: through this. This is what we do, and you know 581 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: I and I and I appreciate the uh the call 582 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,800 Speaker 1: to sign up for the newsletter man every day across 583 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: the b Aha community, there's remarkable stuff that happens on 584 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: behalf of hunters, anglers and people who care about conservation 585 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: and wild places in man If. I'm pleasantly surprised every 586 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: time I see it, and I'm inspired every time I 587 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: see it. I got to imagine that there are a 588 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,399 Speaker 1: lot of people out there who would be as well, 589 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: and I appreciate you putting that out. 590 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,479 Speaker 2: Cal well, thank you keep up the good work and 591 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 2: the old col's We can review Cow's World podcast here. 592 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 2: We got a lot of movers and shakers, folks who 593 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 2: like to get their hands dirty, so we're going to 594 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 2: weigh in on our side too. Thank you very much everybody. 595 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,399 Speaker 2: That's all we got for you today. As always, right 596 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 2: in to ask C A L. That's ask Cal at 597 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 2: the Meat Eater dot com. Let me know what's going 598 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 2: on in your neck of the woods, and let me 599 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 2: know if you have any questions about this Utah land 600 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 2: transfer idea, what the heck's going on in Florida. What's 601 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 2: going on with Patrick Barry and BHA. We can always 602 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 2: have Patrick back on or I can collect all those questions, 603 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 2: get him answered for you and hit him on the podcast. 604 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 2: So thanks again. We'll talk to you next week.