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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking with Chris and Christie from Life

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Speaker 1: Opted Out. That's right, Joel. For this episode, we have

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Speaker 1: Chris and Christie here with us for a live in

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Speaker 1: person interview. Close to a year ago, they embarked on

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Speaker 1: an adventure where they chose to leave their life in

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Speaker 1: New York City for a much simpler and a much

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Speaker 1: more affordable life, all while traveling and experiencing all that

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Speaker 1: our country has to offer. And it turns out that

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Speaker 1: a lot of what they've learned up to this point

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Speaker 1: is not exclusive and specific to van life on the road.

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Speaker 1: Their lessons can also be applied to anyone living a

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Speaker 1: more traditional stationary life like us. So we are excited

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Speaker 1: to chat with them about that's and also because over

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Speaker 1: a million folks are traveling around the country in some

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Speaker 1: sort of van right now. And plus some of our

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Speaker 1: listeners have been asking about this too. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: are changing up the Money pro episodes. We we loved

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Speaker 1: kind of that format, but we missed the kind of

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Speaker 1: interview format to the fact that we could connect with people,

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Speaker 1: sit down and have a conversation. And so Matt We're

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Speaker 1: excited to kind of transition and do more interview based

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Speaker 1: episodes as opposed to those kind of prepackaged money pro

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Speaker 1: type shows that we were doing. Yeah, but onto the beer.

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Speaker 1: We are drinking a lovely beer today. It's called Nothing

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Speaker 1: Left to Give by Orpheus Brewing. It's a raspberry sour

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Speaker 1: and I know that you're gonna love this beer because

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Speaker 1: you like anything raspberry exactly. Yeah, and our friend Jimmy

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Speaker 1: down at Orpheus Brewing here in Atlanta was kind enough

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Speaker 1: to give us some of this beer. So yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: really looking forward to tasting this one. Sadly, Chris and

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Speaker 1: Chris side, they're not drinking beer because it's lent. So

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Speaker 1: Chris and Christy, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Great to be here, guys, thanks for having us, Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having us. And I'm just so sad that you're

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Speaker 1: not drinking with us, but that's okay. We can still

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Speaker 1: be friends and we'll we'll send you beer with you

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Speaker 1: so that you can have it when Easter hits. So yeah, yeah, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you are here with us, and

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Speaker 1: you want to introduce exactly who you are and why

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Speaker 1: you guys are on the road doing this project. Life

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Speaker 1: opted out. So we used to live in New York

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Speaker 1: City and Washington, d C. Christie is an attorney and

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Speaker 1: I'm a journalist. I was a political journalist, covered campaigns politics,

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Speaker 1: was on the road a lot, travel a lot, and

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Speaker 1: uh we were in New York City and there was

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Speaker 1: a round of layoffs where I worked and we had

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Speaker 1: to make a decision should we continue to live in

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Speaker 1: a very expensive apartment in Manhattan or try something completely different?

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Speaker 1: And Christie had an idea. So I've been thinking about

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Speaker 1: this book project that I wanted to do with Chris,

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Speaker 1: where we traveled the country and talk to people who

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Speaker 1: are kind of choosing to live a little differently and

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Speaker 1: maybe opt out of the mainstream American dream, which we

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Speaker 1: kind of define as that nine to five job, big

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Speaker 1: mortgage on your house, all the stuff, and kind of

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Speaker 1: consumed by that consumerism. And so we've been traveling the

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Speaker 1: country talking to people who are choosing to find financial

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Speaker 1: independence and retire early, people who are choosing to build

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Speaker 1: their own houses, build sustainably, people who are living like

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Speaker 1: us on the road in r vs or vans or

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Speaker 1: buses or whatever. So the idea of living on the

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Speaker 1: road actually just came from well, that seems like a

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Speaker 1: really practical way to travel the country for cheap and

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Speaker 1: to be able to go to all these places and

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Speaker 1: meet all these people we want to interview. Chris got

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Speaker 1: laid off, and like two days later we're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's buy a van, build it out ourselves, live in

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Speaker 1: it and travel the country and talk to people and

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Speaker 1: find out why people are living differently and what we

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Speaker 1: can learn from them, which sounds very exciting. And then

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Speaker 1: you realize that neither of us had ever used a

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Speaker 1: power tool before, um, and we had never worked with

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Speaker 1: our hands. I was a commercial fisherman in Alaska after college,

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Speaker 1: and that's the last time I think I've been out.

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Speaker 1: It was cool, you know, Yeah, yeah, I was poor

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Speaker 1: at it and they called me names, but um, you know,

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Speaker 1: is tough. But we had not built anything. We had

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Speaker 1: no carpentry skills, we had no engineering skills and anything

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Speaker 1: like that. But there was all these kids on YouTube

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Speaker 1: that kept building houses and vans that looked like we

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Speaker 1: could do that. So we gave away almost everything, sold

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Speaker 1: what we could left our apartment, went down to Florida

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Speaker 1: where it was warm. This was around winter time and

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Speaker 1: where our parents live and where parents live, and we

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Speaker 1: bought a used ram Pro Master, which is like one

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Speaker 1: of those like work van with the white work vans

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Speaker 1: with a high top. Yeah, we just went not to

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Speaker 1: see it. And it's pretty small and I could barely

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Speaker 1: fit in it. I'm six five, so I had normally

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Speaker 1: for sure, But you had a pretty sweet set up.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about your set up. We shrunk down to

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Speaker 1: seventy two square feet. The electricity is solar powered. We

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Speaker 1: have two hundred lots of solar up top and that

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Speaker 1: powers a refrigerator, running water, lights, and if you need

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Speaker 1: to charge your phone or electricity. We also have a

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Speaker 1: water containment system that gives us about a hundred liters

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Speaker 1: of water at a time, and a bed that can

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Speaker 1: fold into couches during the day. Took us one month

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Speaker 1: to build because we had a deadline every day we

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Speaker 1: were spending longer not moving out of our apartment in

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Speaker 1: New York. We had to pay to be in New York,

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Speaker 1: so we had to build the van, get it to

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Speaker 1: New York, get rid of our stuff, and not pay

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Speaker 1: New York rent anymore. And there it can be definitely

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Speaker 1: And we started in May of twenty eighteen UM, and

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Speaker 1: we've been on the road. We've done twenty four thousand

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Speaker 1: miles ever since. You guys are coming up now in

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Speaker 1: almost a year. Like, what are your thoughts now towards travel?

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Speaker 1: So obviously you mentioned Christie how it's an effective, maybe

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Speaker 1: affordable way to see the country, get on the road

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Speaker 1: and meet lots of interesting folks. Now that you've been

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Speaker 1: doing it for close to twelve months, now do you

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Speaker 1: feel the same towards travel that you did, you know,

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Speaker 1: back when you did start. Yeah, first of all, I'll

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Speaker 1: say the van life that you see on Instagram, the

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Speaker 1: glamorous like sexy twenty year old camping on the beads,

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Speaker 1: Why are they always without pants? Where did their pants?

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Speaker 1: Where that guy shirt bard pants? Because their mom and

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Speaker 1: their mom didn't join them on the road to tell

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Speaker 1: them put your pants on. Uh, So that is not

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Speaker 1: real van life. Van life is more like a really

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Speaker 1: extended camping trip or living in a cabin without running water,

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Speaker 1: running water or toilet and going to the bathroom with

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Speaker 1: your spouse close to you. All right, so how on

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Speaker 1: the bathroom? Note, that's definitely curiosity. Let's just talk exactly.

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Speaker 1: Let's get out of the way. Now, that's definitely a

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Speaker 1: question that people have when they hear people taking an

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Speaker 1: alternative out like this and living in a van. How

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Speaker 1: does that work when you have to go, especially in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night. And how many Captain D's

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Speaker 1: have you had to go to the bathroom at um?

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Speaker 1: I guess is like a gas station? Is that? What? No?

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Speaker 1: Like at the fish joint? Like a fast food restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Come on right down to the south, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of more McDonald's. Okay, McDonald's. How many think that in

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Speaker 1: order to understand our whole van situation that you have

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Speaker 1: to understand that one of of my core values is simplicity,

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Speaker 1: and so our van build and our van is very simple.

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Speaker 1: And so we chose the most simple toilet situation that

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Speaker 1: we could think of, apart from being in a mason

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Speaker 1: jar or a gateorade bottle, which is what a lot

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Speaker 1: of people do, like dumb dumber style. So we just

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Speaker 1: have a camp toilet. It was like you know, super

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Speaker 1: cheap butt on Amazon. It's just a plastic thing that

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Speaker 1: has a container at the bottom that you can take

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Speaker 1: off and then dump into toilet. Yeah, it's small enough

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Speaker 1: that you could carry it and we just take it

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Speaker 1: off and then dump it into a toilet somewhere. I

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Speaker 1: just take it off and dump it. I'm sorry. So

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Speaker 1: now we know the division of labor. But so real

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Speaker 1: quick though, let's get back to the question though, like,

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Speaker 1: has your attitudes change changed to travel? Yeah? We we we

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Speaker 1: kind of got subverted by change your travel. Yes, because

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that you could live in America

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Speaker 1: for free. If you build your own systems as we

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Speaker 1: did that provide electricity through the sun and enough water

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Speaker 1: to carry around with you, and it contained toilet paying

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Speaker 1: on the ground and a shelter in the van, you

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Speaker 1: can very realistically live in the United States almost rent free,

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Speaker 1: and that is through Bureau of Land Management land National

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Speaker 1: forest land. Through technology, there are so many ways to

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Speaker 1: share information with other people doing this to say where

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Speaker 1: you can stay and where you cannot. I grew up

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Speaker 1: thinking that anything fun had to cost money. You had

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Speaker 1: to pay for a campsite. Why are we even paying

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Speaker 1: for this campsite. It's crowded with TACKI people, why are

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Speaker 1: we doing this? And we found that the best campsites

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Speaker 1: and the best places are all free. And you know,

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Speaker 1: if you pulled together your money for gas and food,

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Speaker 1: and after that there's very few expenses. I learned that

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Speaker 1: a little bit. I took a three month road trip

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Speaker 1: across the country back in the day, and I learned

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Speaker 1: that a little bit. There's this website CouchSurfing dot com,

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Speaker 1: and people are more than happy to listen to their house.

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Speaker 1: And then in turn, when I had a place here

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta, I'd listed mind and people could stay there.

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Speaker 1: And that kind of community exists, and there are free

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Speaker 1: places to stay. You just have to look for and

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Speaker 1: you just have to decide to live life a little

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Speaker 1: bit differently. Speaking of which, your van is pretty small.

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Speaker 1: He's had seventy two square feet. What was the decision?

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Speaker 1: Was it pure simplicity, Christie, because that's something you care

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Speaker 1: about a lot, or or why did you go for

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Speaker 1: something so intensely small as opposed to something a little

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Speaker 1: bit bigger for your travels. There is a van that

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Speaker 1: is a bit bigger than the current van that we have.

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Speaker 1: Are just kind of like the middle size um basically

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Speaker 1: just to give people an idea of the living space,

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Speaker 1: is six ft by twelve feet by you know, six

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Speaker 1: ft one basically not tall enough for me, and we

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Speaker 1: chose this size van because we can park in any

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Speaker 1: parking spot Chris. Chris is an excellent driver. He can

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Speaker 1: even maneuver that into a compact spot sometimes. And also

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Speaker 1: there are limitations a lot of places on the length

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Speaker 1: of vehicle. Um In some national parks, your vehicle can

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Speaker 1: only be so long. Some like back roads and dirt

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Speaker 1: roads that we take in National forest, your vehicle can

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Speaker 1: only be so long. And so we just wanted to

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Speaker 1: be nimble and able to get around and be able

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Speaker 1: to park wherever we wanted to park. In addition to that,

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Speaker 1: our van is just like a white van. It looks

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Speaker 1: more or less like a sprinter van, but it looks

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Speaker 1: like you know, a plumbers van or a work van,

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Speaker 1: and we can just park it on the street in

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Speaker 1: front of your house and sleep here and no one

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Speaker 1: would really question for the most part, whether or not

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Speaker 1: like someone was in there or if that was like

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Speaker 1: legitimately could be there. And so part of the reason

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Speaker 1: why we don't have an r V or trailer to

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Speaker 1: pull or something like that is so that we can

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Speaker 1: stealth camp wherever we want, and we have we have

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Speaker 1: stealth camped in several cities. It's not the most comfortable

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Speaker 1: thing to do and you kind of want to be

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Speaker 1: quiet and keep lights down. But we can do it

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Speaker 1: if we if we need to, which is good and

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Speaker 1: that was a big part of why we chose that

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Speaker 1: van is the is the is the price as far

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Speaker 1: as if you want to be traveling for an extended

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Speaker 1: period of time, to pay for a campsite every night,

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Speaker 1: dollars a night will add up so quickly. And an

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Speaker 1: RV in many cases is not self contained. You have

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Speaker 1: to go to and hook up, you have to dump

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Speaker 1: your your water or whatever. We don't have to do that.

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Speaker 1: We can do it on our own individually, and we are,

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Speaker 1: as Christie said, incredibly nimble and it allows us to

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Speaker 1: extend this trip because it's far less expensive. Also, a

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Speaker 1: gas mile at a big r V is going to

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Speaker 1: give you six miles per gallons and we're doing about

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Speaker 1: seventeen to eighteen miles per gallon, which will get you

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Speaker 1: so much further. Yeah. I love that you have systems

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Speaker 1: set up in place that allows you, like you said,

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Speaker 1: to be more flexible, and you want to be able

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Speaker 1: to explore all the different options right when you're limited,

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Speaker 1: if you're limited by the size. We see have a

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Speaker 1: thirty ft trailer or thirty r V. Yeah, like there's

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Speaker 1: maybe some national parks that you can't actually make it too.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of a mummer because it's not like you

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Speaker 1: have another vehicle that you're pulling behind that vehicle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And part of the reason that we chose to do this,

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Speaker 1: part of the reason why we chose to give away

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Speaker 1: and sell our possessions, is to experiment in very voluntary simplicity,

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Speaker 1: but kind of extreme simplicity. So you know, we have

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Speaker 1: have basically twenty five gallons of water, which can last

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Speaker 1: us a week and even in the desert if we're

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Speaker 1: not taking showers, but we don't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: clothes in our van. We actually, it's kind of crazy.

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Speaker 1: We have our full camping gear because we actually do

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Speaker 1: still go camping. We have our backpacking gear, backpacking tents,

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Speaker 1: like all that stuff, which sounds funny because we're basically

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Speaker 1: camping all the time. But sometimes you just got to

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Speaker 1: get away from it all, leave it all behind. You're

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Speaker 1: gonna go camping tonight, let's do it. That's awesome. On

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Speaker 1: the subject of your van, Yeah, can you tell us

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Speaker 1: just a little bit about you said it took a

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Speaker 1: month to build, but about how much did it cost

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Speaker 1: to buy the van and then build it out, so

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Speaker 1: that people kind of know if they're interested in getting

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Speaker 1: into something like that. So the costs can vary so widely,

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Speaker 1: just like anything. Let me start at the at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: We visited an RV store, one of those big camping

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Speaker 1: were warehouse kind of places, and they have these beautiful

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Speaker 1: r vs and stuff that looks a lot like what

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Speaker 1: we have just vans here, and so we thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll just buy one and then we can hit

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Speaker 1: the road right now. Until we looked at the price

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Speaker 1: and we're talking hundred and twenty five thousand dollars for

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Speaker 1: the same chassis and the systems that we built just

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Speaker 1: by professionals, I suppose, and we saw maybe one fore

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Speaker 1: they'll tell you, well, you just you know finance. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know we're already facing I'm not gonna put on

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Speaker 1: another you know, huge financial I remember a guy told us, well,

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Speaker 1: you kids, you watch your YouTube's and you think you

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Speaker 1: can just build your own van. No, how are you

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Speaker 1: going to power your microwave and your television. You can't

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Speaker 1: build your own van. And I'm like, we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: have him He's like, you have to have a television,

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Speaker 1: and we said no, and it was just a very strange,

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Speaker 1: awkward interaction with this salesman. Uh So we were resolved

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Speaker 1: to build our own through home depot, lows Um and

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Speaker 1: whatever else little places. We bought all the materials Amazon

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Speaker 1: Huge and we built it for about five thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: plus the cost of the van. And the van we

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Speaker 1: bought it gently you so that came to around twenty

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Speaker 1: five dollars, but you can go much cheaper. You can

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Speaker 1: buy an older van just for a couple grand. We

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Speaker 1: just knew that with the limited time would be on

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Speaker 1: the road underneath two years, we just did not want

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Speaker 1: to have to deal with fixing things a lot. And

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Speaker 1: hopefully we can we can turn around and sell it

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Speaker 1: later on when we're finished, because we did put a

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Speaker 1: lot of labor and work into it. And when people

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Speaker 1: just want to hit the road, you know, they'll pay

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Speaker 1: a little money to to go and have to build

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Speaker 1: it themselves. Yeah, so that's the cost of the build out.

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Speaker 1: Do you have an idea as far as what you

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Speaker 1: spend monthly, you know, so while you're on the road.

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Speaker 1: I know it certainly like it varies depending on what

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Speaker 1: you're doing, what sites you're seeing, what you're paying for.

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Speaker 1: But like on average, yeah, let's talk about just the

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Speaker 1: basic costs and then you can add on all the

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Speaker 1: fun you want on your own. Right, I'll do a

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Speaker 1: rundown for you, guys. Car payment about nine fifty bucks

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Speaker 1: a month, trying to get that paid off real quickly.

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Speaker 1: Insurance a hundred and twenty five dollars a month. If

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Speaker 1: you're building it out on your own. Uh, it's often

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Speaker 1: going to be considered a commercial vehicle, so you'll pay

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Speaker 1: a little bit more or that insurance. Our average gas

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Speaker 1: cost in two thousand eighteen was two eight one dollars

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Speaker 1: a month. That will depend on how much you drive

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Speaker 1: and where you're driving. And we went twenty three thousand

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Speaker 1: miles last year, so it was a pretty big trip.

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Speaker 1: And you can do a great van life experience without

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Speaker 1: driving that much. All right. Cell phone we have to

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Speaker 1: cell phones with data plans and an iPad with the

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Speaker 1: data plan to to do some work on it. Dred

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Speaker 1: twenty dollars a month. Groceries five hundred and sixty dollars

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Speaker 1: a month. Planet Fitness, where we may shower three dollars

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Speaker 1: a month, that's how you get laundry thirty dollars a

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Speaker 1: month for laundromats, and what's called harvest hosts. This is

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Speaker 1: a program that allows us to stay on farms, vineyards

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Speaker 1: and golf courses for free to sleep overnight and then

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Speaker 1: we can pick up our fresh fruits and vegetables or wine.

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Speaker 1: So we paid at the time forty five dollars for

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Speaker 1: the whole year for that. The total is right around

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Speaker 1: twenty one dollars a month in expenses. I will tell

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Speaker 1: you that that is so much less than one monthly

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Speaker 1: rent payment on our apartment back in New York. Just

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Speaker 1: on rent. Yeah, this is everything, and then the rest

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Speaker 1: would be entertainment, eating out, and that's totally up to

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Speaker 1: the consumer of So your basics if you're eating in

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Speaker 1: and traveling and not spending money on campgrounds, well yeah,

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Speaker 1: the reason we asked that is, I mean, on average,

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Speaker 1: like the average American expenses that you typically here are

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Speaker 1: like maybe around sixty dollars, and that comes down to

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Speaker 1: about five thousand months. And what you just outline right there,

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Speaker 1: you're looking at less than half of what the average

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Speaker 1: American is spending. At the same time, you're able to

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Speaker 1: see the country. You're able to see sites that people

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Speaker 1: would dream of seeing or pay a ton of money

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Speaker 1: to go see. And you guys are basically rolling that

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Speaker 1: into your life right now while saving a ton of money.

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Speaker 1: So kiddo, see you guys. I love that. All right, Matt,

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Speaker 1: we'll get more into what a typical day looks like

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Speaker 1: with Chris and Christie and whether they think that this

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Speaker 1: is kind of lifestyle as possible with kids, and even

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Speaker 1: more questions right after the break. All right, we're back

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Speaker 1: from the break and real quick, I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you guys, how long have y'all? So y'all are married,

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Speaker 1: how long have you all been together? And did you

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Speaker 1: do any traveling, say, before you went on this big

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Speaker 1: trip right, Like, do you have a history of learning

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Speaker 1: how to travel together? That whole thing as we sort

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Speaker 1: of dive into the more the lifestyle of life on

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Speaker 1: the road. So Chris and I have been together for

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Speaker 1: about thirteen years. We've been married for five going on six. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've done quite a lot of traveling together and learning

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Speaker 1: to be flexible in different situations when we first started dating,

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Speaker 1: when we just graduated from college, we decided to go

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Speaker 1: to India and work in Mother Teresa's Charities in Kolkata

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Speaker 1: and we spent four months traveling the subcontinents, sleeping on trains,

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Speaker 1: jumping off trains, riding on top of buses, doing everything.

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Speaker 1: It was dangerous and it sounds very legit, that's ah.

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Speaker 1: And then we worked to Mother Triesa's charities for a

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Speaker 1: month and a half or so, and we learned a

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Speaker 1: lot about each other and how to deal with hardship together.

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Speaker 1: Let's be a little more specific, if you don't mind, Christy. Uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: so we were working under pretty you know, like tough conditions,

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Speaker 1: like with with people going through incredibly hard times, and

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Speaker 1: that was very stressful, you know, to experience that, especially

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Speaker 1: as a kind of a Westerner that hasn't experienced that before. Also,

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Speaker 1: we were in a place where the bathroom situation was

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Speaker 1: not as closed off from the living situation as we

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Speaker 1: are used to in in the West. And their sicknesses

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Speaker 1: when you're traveling, and um, you can imagine having a

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Speaker 1: traveling sickness with someone you just started dating and they're

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Speaker 1: right there on the other side of just the partition.

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Speaker 1: And we had to decide, wow, are we going to

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Speaker 1: just accept this way that we are like our humanity

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Speaker 1: together and love each other and know if we can

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Speaker 1: go through this, we can go through quietly about anything.

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Speaker 1: And um, that's as specific as I imagine viewers want

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Speaker 1: to stay. But the point is that we started our

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Speaker 1: relationship going through something very trying, and I think that

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Speaker 1: that has helped sustain through our relationship for all these

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Speaker 1: years speaking which we're talking about living in poverty and

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure, yeah, you get to know somebody really

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Speaker 1: quickly in an environment like that, But when it comes

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Speaker 1: to living in a van like you guys are doing,

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Speaker 1: there are are certainly people who are forced to live

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Speaker 1: in a van or or that is the only place

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Speaker 1: that they can find because of financial circumstances. And yet

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Speaker 1: there is this kind of van life hashtag van life

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Speaker 1: movement on Instagram, and there's all these, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: panceless people, uh that are that are just instagramming the

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Speaker 1: heck out of it, becoming influencers and all that all

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Speaker 1: that crazy stuff. What has it been like for you

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Speaker 1: on the road that kind of people that you've met,

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Speaker 1: and what's your take on kind of the dichotomy of

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Speaker 1: the situation that people traveling in in vehicles and vans

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Speaker 1: across the country find themselves in well. I think there's

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Speaker 1: this also plays along in the fire community, in the

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Speaker 1: minimalist community, because in those communities often they're they're based

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Speaker 1: on a lot of privilege, on on education, on taking

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Speaker 1: risks because you know that there is some kind of cushion,

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Speaker 1: whether it's family or financial in the background. You're you're

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Speaker 1: lucky to be born, maybe in a family that taught

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Speaker 1: you these values. Right, And in Van Life, as as

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Speaker 1: you you spoke there, there is this instagram van life

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Speaker 1: that is is privileged. It's a lot of people choosing

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Speaker 1: to live that way for for reasons, for experimental reasons,

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Speaker 1: or for lifestyle reasons, and then or for money. Right.

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Speaker 1: But then there's also people who are struggling in the

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Speaker 1: United States today, working jobs that don't pay enough or

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Speaker 1: unable to find work at all, that are living finding

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Speaker 1: their only way they can live is on the road

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Speaker 1: or advance um. It's documented in a great book called

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Speaker 1: nomad Lands. And I think it's really important to to

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Speaker 1: show that there are different kind of reasons that people

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Speaker 1: go out and do this and to acknowledge the privilege

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Speaker 1: when it's there. And I think that we have at

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Speaker 1: and we're grateful to be able to do this because

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Speaker 1: of that. So yeah, I just want to point that

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Speaker 1: out for sure. But the kind of people we meet,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you one thing that's so fascinating on this trip.

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Speaker 1: I came from Washington in a political background in journalism,

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Speaker 1: and if you live in Washington right now, you feel

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Speaker 1: as though the United States is on the brink of

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Speaker 1: some kind of weird civil war. You hear that all

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Speaker 1: the time in the media and everything. But what we

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Speaker 1: find with people as we've traveled is that people might

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Speaker 1: come from different places in the way they see the world,

433
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: but the ones that are living out there intentionality are

434
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,479
Speaker 1: arriving at the same places at the end, even if

435
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: they come from completely different spots, They're arriving in voluntary

436
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: simplicity in focusing on community building. Also, you know, like

437
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: frugality and things like that, Rectus rejecting consumerism, and you know,

438
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: we were in Puerto Rico a couple of months ago

439
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: building self sustainable houses and we're talking like dreadlock Sandinistas

440
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: are working with like I'm rand Libertarians for totally different

441
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: reasons to build the same thing, um and and we've

442
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: seen so much of that. I know that was a

443
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 1: lot of places. I just went, that's awesome. I love that.

444
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit too about I guess, so

445
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: your lifestyle now, So, now that you guys are on

446
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: the road, what does your typical day look like you

447
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 1: wake up? Let's we'll start there. We'll start in the morning,

448
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: and then we'll end at night wherever you are going

449
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: to arrive. Christie, let's let's kick this off to you. Chores, right, Yeah,

450
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: we've talked a little bit about the glamorous image of

451
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: van life on Instagram. It is not by any means glamorous.

452
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: There's a lot of chores. It's kind of like, like

453
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: I said, like living in a cabin where everything is

454
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: manual and you have to fetch your own water and

455
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: to make sure you have fuel and electricity and all

456
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: these things. You know, and there's a big learning curve too.

457
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 1: I will say that for anyone who is thinking about

458
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: this lifestyle, it takes about a good couple of months

459
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: to figure out how to find a place to sleep

460
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: every night, you know, how to kind of function in

461
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: the small space and with with your systems. But for us,

462
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: a normal day, usually you know, we wake up I

463
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: would say, like the majority of the time. If we're

464
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 1: not at a harvest lost location, we're at um National

465
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 1: Forest or something like that. Like basically we're in the

466
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: woods somewhere camping for free. And so we wake up,

467
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: Chris makes coffee. It's very important because it's husbandly duty.

468
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: We have a lot of chores that we have to do.

469
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 1: Living in a van requires you to always do your

470
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: dishes and put all of them away. Always requires you to,

471
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, change out the waters. We have a little

472
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: cook stove. We have to take that out, put it together,

473
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: put it away every time we cook. And so you know,

474
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: to make coffee either if we have enough solar we

475
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: use and like electric kettle, or we use our propane stove,

476
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, as to heat up the water. And then

477
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: Chris and I are really big into um having at

478
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: least some semblance of normalcy. So we every day read

479
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: in the morning. That's very important to us. We we

480
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: don't talk, we don't look at our phones, we don't

481
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: do any of that. We don't work. We just read

482
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: for as long as we can get away with and

483
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: then we have breakfast together and then we usually go

484
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: somewhere and do a little work in the morning. And

485
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: one sneaky um cost a van life that I've noticed

486
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: a lot of people get in the habit of is

487
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: going to coffee shops in places like that to do

488
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: your work, where you have to buy a coffee and

489
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: then maybe you feel bad and you buy another coffee

490
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: or you buy a lunch or whatever. Joel doesn't feel

491
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: that pressure. By the way, we've covered that in previous episodes.

492
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: Chris and I we hardly ever go to coffee. We

493
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: always go to public libraries. We love public libraries. We've

494
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: been to public libraries all across the country. They're wonderful,

495
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: they're helpful, you can stay there as long as they're

496
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: open and have free WiFi, and no one gives you

497
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: the evil eye for not buying another cup of coffee. Um.

498
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: So we usually go to a library or something like that,

499
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: and you know, do a couple of hours of work.

500
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: We're both working sort of as freelance writers right now,

501
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: and so that's what we're doing. And then you want

502
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: to get out. So, like in the summertime, we'll hike

503
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: five to ten miles a day when you have that

504
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,479
Speaker 1: time of daylight to be able to do that. So,

505
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: is that typically how you spend your afternoons, and so

506
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: you get up, kind of get your coffee, you kind

507
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: of have some you know, some downtime in the morning,

508
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: go off that morning, try to get some work done.

509
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: And then so like is this the afternoons, after after

510
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: lunch you are spending probably about like three or four

511
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. Then go do a good solid hike, uh,

512
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,479
Speaker 1: and then come home, make dinner, and then do all

513
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: the chores all over again. Everything has to be cleaned,

514
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: everything has to be put away. You only have so

515
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: many things, so you can't just put them somewhere else.

516
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: So many places are Are you eating most of your

517
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: meals in the van? Yes? In the summertime, you know,

518
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: you can spread out a little bit. I think it's

519
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: hard in a colder climate, you're just so stuffed in,

520
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: which is why we followed the weather as much as

521
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: we could. Um The van up until the other day

522
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: did not have any heat at all. We just bought

523
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: like a space heater because we're like, okay, let's just

524
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: plug in if it's too cold. But we were up

525
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: at the top of the Canadian Rockies at the height

526
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: of summer, and we were in the Florida Keys in

527
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: the bottom of winter. So that was our climate control

528
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: was our wheels. That's very cool. You mentioned making money

529
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: on the road gallar freelance journalists, which is which is

530
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: super cool and definitely a job that you can take

531
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: with you and and there are lots of people in

532
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: the current economy that can find a way to ask

533
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: for some time away so that they can, you know,

534
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: they could work on the road. They could ask for

535
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: that and and their employers would grant it to them.

536
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: What else have you found occupationally that people are up

537
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: to as you travel and meet people that are, yeah,

538
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: living life on wheels. We just spent a weekend at

539
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: the r V Entrepreneurs Summit, which is a gathering of

540
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: people that live and work on the road so they

541
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: could share ideas. It's kind of like a business conference

542
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: for nomads basically, and we met obviously writers, a lot

543
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: of people doing digital services for companies, which can be

544
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: so many things, but often is like handling their social

545
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: media accounts Interests, Instagram, Twitter, and then have handling multiple people,

546
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: also folks running sales businesses just on the road, and

547
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: then other people who work and maybe an I T

548
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: or something that is digital that they can work wherever

549
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: they work for a regular company like IBM or whatever,

550
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: and they just work wherever they want to and they

551
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: had to ask to do that, or they were told

552
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: that they are now remote and then they said okay bye,

553
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: they bought an r V and sold their house. The

554
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: one drawback, though, I'd say, to working if you're working

555
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: full time on the road, you have to be like

556
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: at a desk from nine to five. That structure is

557
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: really difficult on the road because your whole day is

558
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: stuck having to be so called on you know, online.

559
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: When can you go anywhere else? You've worked a full

560
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: day and then at five pm you're going to drive

561
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: across the desert to get to the next place. That

562
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: was a common complaint. We heard from people that the

563
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: best case scenario is to be able to own your

564
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: own time schedule and be able to work when and

565
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: how you want it to. And the nine to five

566
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: is a really hard thing to just jam into like

567
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: the nomadic RV life, although people do it and are

568
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: incredibly happy, and they do it with children. And the

569
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: next question, how is it possible with children? You think,

570
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you've seen people in vans similar

571
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: to our size with two children or three living with

572
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: them in the van and their dog, which is always

573
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: some kind of Saint Bernard or something. It's just the

574
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: two of us were like, this is this is plenty.

575
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: But people get, you know, they can upsize. They do

576
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: the buses, they the vans, the bigger vans, and and

577
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: that makes it possible. And people who were just going

578
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: to take like a six month or twelve month trip

579
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: end up doing it for years. It is We're at

580
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: this wonderful place in the United States or I guess

581
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: around the world where you have this intersection of of

582
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: technology and ability where people can work wherever they want.

583
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: They don't have to live the way everyone told them

584
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: they're supposed to, and fire people know that, you know,

585
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: really well, and so do these like digital nomads. They

586
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: say like, there's no reason I have to live like

587
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: my mom and dad. I can do ten million more

588
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: things just because the availability. We just have to be

589
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: flexible enough to take advantage of it. Have you seen

590
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: is it Captain Fantastic or Captain Austin was a very

591
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: influential movie, wasn't like you mentioned like the school Bus

592
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: and you know, with lots of kids and made me

593
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: think of that that movie there for a second, you

594
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: like that one. We love that movie. That's a great movie.

595
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: I thought that movie was great and that it wasn't

596
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: just a one sided film to say the minimalists are right.

597
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: He was a conflicted character the father in this film,

598
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, and they had to strike some balance and

599
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: which which I think was made it an excellent movie. Yeah,

600
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: and more true to life, right. Yes, when it comes

601
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: to community, you guys left New York City and I'm

602
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: not sure what your community was like there. I know

603
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: for Matt and I we've talked about this and and

604
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: going on the road would be so cool, but the

605
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: difficulty would be how much we would miss our community,

606
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: the people that we live closely with that in our

607
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: neighborhood and and just so many good friends and and

608
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: a pace of life here. How has that transition been

609
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: for you? And and have you missed your friends in

610
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: your community? And yeah, what's what's happened? Like? Yeah, absolutely,

611
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: we we had a wonderful community in New York City.

612
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: We had a church about a block away from our house,

613
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: and we have a small group and after church you'd

614
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: be like, hey, you guys want to come over, and

615
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: it was it was really wonderful. We had a lot

616
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: of wonderful friends there, and we have a lot of

617
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: one of friends in d C as well, where we

618
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: lived for ten years before we moved to New York.

619
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: So community is really the struggle on the road for

620
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people. We do go occasionally to van

621
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: meetups where we meet up with people who are very

622
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: similar to us and we feel, you know, like really

623
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: pumped and we're like, this is great, look at all

624
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: these people who are doing what we're doing. One thing

625
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: about people who live in vans, though, is that we're

626
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: all moving to different places and moving around constantly, and

627
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: so you don't get to see those people very often.

628
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: Occasionally after a van meet up, we'd just be like, hey,

629
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: you guys want to go somewhere and travel together, And

630
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: we travel with someone for a week, or go with

631
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: one group for a couple of days and a group

632
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: for a couple of days, which is really cool. But

633
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: one thing we do try to do is most Sundays,

634
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: wherever we are, we try to find a church, any

635
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: church and go to it. So if we just like

636
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: are driving down the road and we're like, there's a church,

637
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. What's usually which church has their services between

638
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: eleven and New Yeah. Uh. Sometimes we go to Catholics,

639
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: sometimes to go to a Methodist, Presbyterian, any like anything.

640
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: We'll just go and pop in and talk to people,

641
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: and if they have a little fellowship afterwards where they

642
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: have lunch or coffee or something, we we stopped to

643
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: talk to them. Usually a lot a lot of places

644
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: we've been, you know, churches, especially big denominations like the

645
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: old Methodists and stuff, are really like, you know, kind

646
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: of getting older and sort of starting to kind of

647
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: die off, and they're very excited to see young people

648
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: in the church and that he wants to talk to us,

649
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, we're just passing through. We're actually

650
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: leaving right after this. Thanks for the coffee. I think

651
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: the community question that has probably been the hardest part, honestly,

652
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: and it has really emphasized to me the importance of

653
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: being present with people when you were with them, and

654
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: not just being absent. We've you know, we've all been

655
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: on our phones or or whatever is distracting us from

656
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: those moments of pure community that are so important and

657
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: so with that loss in our lives and let's not

658
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: kid ourselves. Community is essential to our human livelihoods. This

659
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: is very important stuff and you have to intentionally seek

660
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: it out when you're on the road, and I would

661
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: argue you have to do so when you're living a

662
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: more normal life too. But it has been on the

663
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: forefront of our minds and is something we really work

664
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: to try to facilitate whenever we can. It's yeah, that's

665
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: a good point that even in our normal, everyday life,

666
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: we forsake community so much of the time. Most Americans

667
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: don't know their neighbor or have a vibrant community where

668
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: they live. And that's something that takes intentionality, whether you're

669
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: living in a van or you're living a traditional lifestyle. Right. Yeah,

670
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: And so to that note you mentioned earlier, you you

671
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: briefly just said it, but you said two years. It's

672
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: something like that. Two years is going to be maybe

673
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: like the time frame that you're gonna be operating within.

674
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: So are you planning to settle down somewhere you know

675
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: at the end of the two years and be two

676
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: part questions? Is it just really just a giant scouting

677
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: trip to figure or you want to live? Yeah? Yeah,

678
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: we we have been testing every place we visit, the like,

679
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: would we want to live here? Could we live here

680
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: based upon many different you know, parameters, But yeah, we're

681
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: we're looking at where we want to settle down, where

682
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: we'll be financially feasible, where work can be We loved

683
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: New York City, will go back to New York if

684
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity that makes it possible. And we also

685
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: want to start a family if that is in the

686
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: cards for us thirties now times ticking, So yeah, yeah,

687
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: that's kind of our timeline. Um, And we have no

688
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: interest in being pregnant in a van. No, okay, right,

689
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to speak for you. Our wives are pregnant.

690
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: I don't think they'd be into that either, So yeah,

691
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: probably not. But we're totally with you though, Joel and

692
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: I we've we we often talk about traveling. It's like, oh,

693
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: we can take the podcast on the road, load up

694
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: the families. But the number one thing we would miss,

695
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: Certainly we have our our own friendship and our families,

696
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: but we would totally miss the community that we're a

697
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: part of here, and for us that is just so

698
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: incredibly important. And even you, you know, you mentioned the

699
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: van meetups, and that's great and you can do some

700
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: things for the moment, but if you try to maintain

701
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: those relationships or what does that turn into. It turns

702
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: into you maintaining these relationships electronically, and in a lot

703
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: of ways, that's not true relationship. It's it's sort of

704
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: a stop gap and so you're able to see each

705
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: other again at least that's That's one of the ways

706
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: that I view sort of maintaining relationships digitally. I'm really

707
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: excited someday to be able to know that, like every

708
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: Wednesday night, I'm going to have dinner with the same

709
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: group of people that are going to come over and

710
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: have a drink and have dinner together. And that's something

711
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: we just don't have anymore. We have it together and

712
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: we try to facilitate community on our small scale together,

713
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: but to be able to have that consistency of relationships,

714
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: that is something we're really looking forward to. Yeah, hard

715
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: to build deep, meaningful relationships on the road, except with

716
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: your significant other, which is which is definitely something that

717
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: I gotta imagine you guys will never forget. We'll get

718
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: into a little bit more of this discussion, especially some

719
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: of the highlights and low lights. I'm really interested to

720
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: hear that right after this break. M all right, we're back.

721
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: Highlights and low lights, Chris, I saw you smile when

722
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: I saw I said low lights. So will you fill

723
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: us in what's the hardest or our biggest low light

724
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: of this trip so far? Well, I'll premise that the

725
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: van life is agony and ecstasy. The ecstasy is opening

726
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: up your back doors and looking out the ocean and

727
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: be like, wow, we live at the ocean today. This

728
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: is amazing. The low part was probably in in the beginning,

729
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: when we were still getting used to the systems that

730
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: we were trying to build. We didn't understand how everything

731
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: worked even though we had put it together, or it

732
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: was clunky because we had put it together. You know,

733
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: our second night, we're in rural Maine on an l

734
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: pack of farm. That's where we're staying for the night

735
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: through the Harvest host program. And I said, oh, well,

736
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go make dinner on our buttaine stove outside.

737
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: I put it on a plastic table. I didn't bring

738
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: a light. It's pitch black outside. I go to kind

739
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: of light the stove and I don't really notice that

740
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: there's like oil leaking onto the table. Light and match

741
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: everything bursts into a huge flame of f fire, and

742
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh. So I go to flip

743
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: over the table to put out the fire. The table

744
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: slides under the van and I'm like, oh my gosh,

745
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: the van's gonna explode and all the out packers are

746
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: gonna be dead and it's gonna be it. And then

747
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: I pulled it out and we made it, and Christie's like,

748
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: what's going on back there? I'm like, no, nothing, that's fine.

749
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: Then the freezing rain came over the next couple of days.

750
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: Christie throughout her back. We didn't know the systems yet,

751
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: and we were wondering, what are we gonna do. It's cold,

752
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: the wife's miserable, and I'm hungry. She can't make dinner,

753
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: and I lit the table on fire. So that was

754
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: like the first week. In the first week, I can

755
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: see how the beginning would be the toughest part for sure. Right, Yeah, again,

756
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: I mean setting out those systems, like once you have

757
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: a process, like you have your chores that you know

758
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: that you're gonna set up, Like that's no different than

759
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 1: than the life that we live when we're not moving,

760
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: when we're stationary, you kind of have your roles, whether

761
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: it's work or knowing when you're going to go into

762
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: work and having that structure. That's one of the things

763
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: that you mentioned earlier that really stood out to me

764
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: is how important maintaining some sort of semblance of normal

765
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: life and having that structure. Man, I really identify with that,

766
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: and I think I would quickly find myself setting up

767
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: systems and efficiencies and ways to make life easier. All right,

768
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: Christie highlights so far over your trip. You guys have

769
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: been doing this almost a year. What's like the pinnacle?

770
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: What's the best part? So you know, we live, as

771
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: we all know, an amazing country and being able to

772
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: travel and see it all and meet so many wonderful,

773
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: nice people all over the country. Chris was saying a

774
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: little earlier that you know, some you know, East Coast

775
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: urban nights, think that the country is torn apart and

776
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: we have all this political discord. But the reality is

777
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: you go into any bar and any little town across

778
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: the country and people are kind and good and only

779
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: care about the same things that you care about. Their families,

780
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: their job, you know, how to put food on the

781
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: table and send their kids to school. And I think

782
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: that being able to you know, Chris and I have

783
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 1: lived only in Washington, d C. In New York City

784
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: for our entire adult lives, and so that's kind of

785
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: a very limited perspective of the country. And so being

786
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: able to go all the way across the country and

787
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: talk to people and see what people are really about

788
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: and realize that, you know, we're all pretty much the same,

789
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: We're all doing the same things and caring about the

790
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: same things, just in different ways. I think that, combined

791
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: with like the beauty of our country and being able

792
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: to see it and being able to experience the parks

793
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: in the forests and everything firsthand and in a very

794
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: intimate way, has been really the best part. And I'll

795
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: add that there is a snooty attitude in many East

796
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: Coast city circles that any life outside of those is mediocre.

797
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: It's fine, it's cute, it's quaint. No life outside of

798
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: those cities is thriving. Medium sized cities, certain small towns,

799
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: rural communities are doing incredible things that I envy not

800
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: being a part of. And the world is not l

801
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: A d C. New York. And I know that for

802
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: most listeners would be like, well, Dug, Chris course, but

803
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: you've got to understand how limited. Your viewpoint gets when

804
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: you live in those cities, you start to think that

805
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: that is the only thing that matters and everything else

806
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: is fine. No, it's great out there. I mean that's awesome.

807
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: I love hearing how like seeing the country, seeing the beauty,

808
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: getting out there in nature. I could totally have seen

809
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: myself and your shoes maybe ten years ago. So I

810
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: want to get to that. So what advice would you

811
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: give to maybe are our listeners who are thinking and

812
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: this sounds amazing, like this is something I can do.

813
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: I can work from wherever I want. I do database management,

814
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: I can work whenever I want, wherever I want. What

815
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 1: advice would you give people if they're thinking about doing

816
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: this themselves, and what things should they consider? So I

817
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: would say, first of all, I know what you're getting

818
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 1: yourself into. So there are a bunch of different ways

819
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: that you could try on van life for living on

820
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: the road, there's a r V share. There's a bunch

821
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: of different companies now that have vans that you can

822
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: rent for a week or two weeks and go out

823
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: and try it. Like we've been saying, it looks glamorous

824
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: on Instagram, but the reality is it is one heck

825
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: of an extended, extended camping trip. And if you don't

826
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: like camping, you're not gonna like living in your van,

827
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: trust me. So if you don't like being in nature

828
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: and you'd prefer to be in the city, living in

829
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: a vana city is very difficult and you're going to

830
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: have to go out to eat and it's basically like

831
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: sneaking around and trying not to get caught by the

832
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: blue And so if you feel like you have to

833
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: be in the city, then it might not be the

834
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: best the best thing for you. If you want to

835
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: be able to go out in nature and stay for

836
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: an extended period of time, then like, yeah, maybe maybe

837
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: you should try it. And you mentioned some of the

838
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: r V rental sites. Rv share is one of them.

839
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: You actually rent from a person like rend their van

840
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: or like a v I think so, I've never tried it,

841
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: but I think I believe. So. There's escape Ease, which

842
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 1: is actually they're out of a bunch of major cities

843
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: l A, Miami, New York where you can rent a

844
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: van through them, fly into that city and then go

845
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: do the California coast or whatever. And there's it's a

846
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: scape fan site. There's a bunch of different options if

847
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: you want to try on that life. We did not

848
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: try on that life before we decided to do it.

849
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: We decided to go all in, but we knew we

850
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: had a limited amount of time to do this, so

851
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: we were able to do it. I would also say,

852
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: if you're the kind of person who always has to

853
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: be comfortable and clean and all those things like smell,

854
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: this is not really for you either. There's a lot

855
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: of uncomfortable situations. You know, sometimes even if the van

856
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: is like parked a little bit at an angle, like

857
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: sometimes it could like you know, mess up your back

858
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: or something. Is that how you feel your back out

859
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: early on moving moving move the week before we thought

860
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: you were trying to carry one of those out packs

861
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: that Chris try to get. We heard a great piece

862
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: of advice for someone that was considering doing this, and

863
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: they basically knew the square footage of the r v

864
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: R van they wanted to have, and they took tape

865
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: put it in their home where they lived, and they said,

866
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: for X amount of weeks, we are only going to

867
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: exist within this tape, and we're going to move our

868
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: furniture to fit in it, and we're not going out

869
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: and if we just hate it, then we saved ourselves

870
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: lots of time and aggravation and ruined the function of

871
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: their house for several weeks. But they realized that they

872
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: could adjust the rhythms of their life to make it possible.

873
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: And you will be shocked how you can adjust how

874
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: you get used to, in our case, unplugging the refrigerators

875
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: so you can plug in the hot water pot for coffee,

876
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: and that just becomes part of your life because you

877
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: don't have enough sunlight to power both. That's so cool. Yeah. So,

878
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: so what have you guys learned when it comes to

879
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: your money? What have you learned financially through this experience

880
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: about what it takes to survive? Obviously you're living on

881
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: way less than you're living on less than what you're

882
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: paying in rent purely just your rent in New York,

883
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: and you're living on lesson that. What sort of financial

884
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: lessons will you take with you when you moved into

885
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: a more traditional life. Let me make a proclamation here.

886
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: We gave away most of our stuff. I don't miss anything.

887
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 1: I can't think of a thing that I desire other

888
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: than hot running water. That's it. And the one thing

889
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: we have kept adding is books. We know kindles exist.

890
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: We just we're like the bookmobile outside right now. Um,

891
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: but I mean we don't really miss I don't miss

892
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: a thing. And so that has taught me that in

893
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: any purchase going forward, when we do have a home

894
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: that we'll need to fill up, we are going to

895
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 1: be so thoughtful about how we go about doing that.

896
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: I would make impulse purchases like anyone. You know. One

897
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: time I was like, I'm going to start boxing, and

898
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: I bought boxing and I used him twice and then

899
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: I had boxing gloves in the quarter. He came back

900
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: from Hawaii with a s yeah, which I am a surfer,

901
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: so like it made sense, but it was a ridiculous

902
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: thing to buy for New York City. But but um,

903
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to be thinking so much more about buying

904
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 1: anything because it's not just about buying it, And then

905
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: where is this going to go? Where is this going

906
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: to go in ten years? What am I going to

907
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: be doing with it there? And how am I going

908
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: to get rid of it or whatever? And you have

909
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: to have an end plan for anything like that. That's

910
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, So one of the big lessons of

911
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: van life and living in any tiny space is learning

912
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: to be minimalist to some extent, and for us, obviously

913
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: we talked about the privilege to be able to do this,

914
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: to have gotten rid of all of our stuff, and

915
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: also to know like in the future, like, yeah, we

916
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: could always buy more stuff. Again, it's not a problem.

917
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: But the big lesson, I think for both of us

918
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: is the idea of choosing to live voluntarily simple life.

919
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: And so right now in the van, we don't have

920
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: a lot of space, so we are very conscious about

921
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: what we buy, except for when we buy books, which

922
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: we buy a lot of because everything has its place

923
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: and there's only so much space for all the things

924
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: that we have. Even if that thinks there's no there's

925
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: no like knick knacks floating around. Sometimes I pick up

926
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: rocks and then I have all these somewhere, and then

927
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: I'm like, why don't have my daughter? Anyway, that kind

928
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: of training, coupled with so voluntary simplicity, coupled with what

929
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: we've learned kind of throughout this process, which is the

930
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: world and our society tells you you have to consume

931
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: and you have to have stuff to be just a

932
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 1: little bit more happy. We have found that without any

933
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: stuff or any like new things, just absolutely what we

934
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: need that we are absolutely plenty happy. And part of

935
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 1: this lifestyle does involve a lot of organizing and reorganizing

936
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: and making sure everything has its place, because if not,

937
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: it just doesn't work. But we hope that like the

938
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: lesson we take from this is seeing seeing that message

939
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: that's coming from the world for what it is that

940
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: you don't need more stuff to be happy. You just

941
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: need to learn to be content. If you really need something,

942
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 1: like you need a coat or long underwear or whatever,

943
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: we of course gone by it, but you need to

944
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: learn to be content with what you have. And if

945
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: you can't be content with what you have in this

946
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: country where we have so much, with access to everything

947
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: we could possibly want in the entire world, if we're

948
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: not kind of with what we have now, we're not

949
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: going to be content with anything. And that is I

950
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: think the ultimate lesson that we've learned from van life.

951
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: That if I'm not content with my clothes and my

952
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: shoes now, then I'm not going to be content with

953
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: my husband five years. You know, we have this upgrade

954
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: society where it's like we always need something else. We

955
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: need to upgrade our car, our phone, are stuff to

956
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: be happy, and that, I think trains us to think

957
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: I need to upgrade my relationship, I need to upgrade

958
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: my house, I need to upgrade my job in order

959
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: to be happy. And the reality is like, happiness is

960
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: not in any of those things. Happiness is in the

961
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: contentment that we find and what we have currently. When

962
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: we first went to a van meet up, you get

963
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: to see all the other vans and how much better

964
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: their their craftsmanship is than yours, where you were perfectly

965
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: happy and proud of what you had built. Look how

966
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: cool it is, Look how beautiful. And then you see

967
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: someone else's pine walls, their cedared walls, and they're beautiful carpentry,

968
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: and somehow they were able to finish shower in the

969
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 1: same amount of space. And you know, we'd find ourselves

970
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: getting van envy, just as you'd get you know, suburban

971
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: Jones and you know, I gotta have that car, and

972
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: you know we're talking about it, and we had to

973
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: catch ourselves and go, wait, no, we don't want that.

974
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: We just built this and it's great and it's ours,

975
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: and it is this thing that just pings at you

976
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: over and over. If you look at the Ten Commandments,

977
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: the last one is thou shalt not cover it. It's

978
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: the only one that is said twice, says thou shalt

979
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: not cover it. Thou shalt not cover it, like it

980
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: says it twice, and that means and you know, they

981
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: didn't have italics back then, so that's how they emphasized it.

982
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: And it also took a lot to like put it

983
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: into the stone, right, So they're really telling you something.

984
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: It is part of who we are as humans and

985
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: we have to be okay with the limited amount that

986
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: we have. Yeah, and I find the same thing. So

987
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 1: what Chris is talking about van envy, But we found

988
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: the same thing. Like you know, we we try not

989
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time on social media. We

990
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: didn't have I didn't have any social media before I

991
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: did for work. Yeah, but before we lived in a van,

992
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: we didn't have Instagram or anything. And now we Gottagram.

993
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: We see like our our van friends out there and

994
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: we're like, man, they're having so much fun. Maybe they're

995
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: doing this better than us, And there's like no, no no, no,

996
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: we're having we're sorr time. We're like, we're having the

997
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: time of our lives. We don't need to be comparing

998
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: our life and what we're doing to what other people

999
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: are doing at all. And we don't need to be

1000
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: comparing our van or our vehicle or our houses to

1001
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: what other people have. Either. What we have works for

1002
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: us and it is meeting its purpose and that's what's

1003
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: important to us. Yeah, the levels and ability that we

1004
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: have now to compare ourselves to others have been amplified

1005
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: to such a great degree that it creates that feeling

1006
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: of lack in ourselves, I think now, and I just

1007
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: see it all over the place. I see it myself.

1008
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: And that's why. Because I see it myself, and because

1009
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: you guys see it even in this cool van that

1010
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: you made and you go out to the camp site

1011
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, these other people have better ones.

1012
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: It's just a natural human instinct and it's only gotten

1013
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: more severe, and our ability to feel those things has

1014
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: has amped up so much more because of social media.

1015
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: We talk about that on the show. So I'm just

1016
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: staying away from it, and because that is such a

1017
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: call to consumerism, and it is a call to to

1018
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: tell you that you don't have what you need when

1019
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: when you do have what you need, hopefully you usually

1020
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: typically in this country, you do have what you need.

1021
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, those are great thoughts. We have this thing

1022
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: that we Chris and I talked about often. We were

1023
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: living in this society of like constant consumerism where you

1024
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: can go on Amazon or on the Internet and get

1025
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: any single thing you could possibly imagine, any specialized, ridiculous

1026
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: thing and you can get delivered tomorrow or maybe even today.

1027
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: And this idea that we are like constantly looking for

1028
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: the new thing, putting stuff into our shopping carts online,

1029
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: Chris and I have found, you know, like we all

1030
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: have these disposable incomes, we all can do that. But

1031
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 1: the reality is it only creates more of a desire

1032
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: to continue to do that and to continue living in

1033
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: that way. And so maybe like one of the things

1034
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: that we've learned through the experience is just just say no,

1035
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: Like say like maybe one once a month we buy

1036
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: one thing that we don't need and that's it, or

1037
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: something like that, have some sort of limit and cap,

1038
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: or put something in your shopping car and let's sit

1039
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: there for two weeks and if you still think you

1040
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: need it in two weeks, then you can buy it.

1041
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: Limiting ourselves and putting voluntary limits on our spending has

1042
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: been like one of the things that we've really appreciated about,

1043
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, what we've learned from this experience. Yeah, what's

1044
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: amazing too, is that that doesn't change. Right, Like you're

1045
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: learning this on the road, but just like you're you're

1046
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: facing the same temptations and the same desires on the

1047
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 1: road with a limited amount of space that someone would

1048
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: in the suburban house, you know, with the giant lawn. Um,

1049
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: it's just it's the same desires. It's the same sort

1050
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: of call from the sirens, right, and yeah, it's it's

1051
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: amazing that you're you're realizing that now and can hopefully

1052
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: take that into your life once you're off the road. Uh,

1053
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: and stick with those those values in those priorities. One

1054
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: of the piece of advice that have for folks, and

1055
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: this is based on a lot of conversations with others

1056
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: who have done this, is that you won't necessarily change

1057
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: just because you start living in a van. People think

1058
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: that I'm going to be my best self once I

1059
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: get the r V or the van, and I will

1060
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 1: be doing yoga, and I will be meditating, and I

1061
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: will be at peace, and I won't be touching the

1062
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: Instagram anymore. YadA YadA. No, you are your same awful

1063
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: self at home as you will be in your van.

1064
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: It'll change you, but those things will only be amplified

1065
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 1: because you'll either be alone or with somebody very closely,

1066
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: and no matter what, you'll you'll notice those things in

1067
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: yourself quite a bit more. So, don't think that just

1068
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: because you don't give into the fallacy that if you

1069
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: buy something or just change your living arrangements, that you

1070
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: will do better yoga poses or you'll actually put the

1071
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: mat out, Because if you're not putting the mat out now,

1072
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: you're not gonna do it when you get a van.

1073
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: That's a very good point, all right, So can you

1074
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 1: guys tell us a little bit more about the project

1075
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: you're working on based on this current experience, and then

1076
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: and how much longer you have on the road, and

1077
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: then where people can find you too. So we are

1078
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: planning to do this through the summer. At least that's

1079
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: the best time to travel. You get like double days

1080
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: to do cool stuff. But we are embedding ourselves with

1081
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: communities that are trying to opt out of mainstream ways

1082
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: of living or at least craft their own ways to

1083
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 1: to thrive in America. Now that there are so many

1084
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 1: new tools at hand. The systems we were born into

1085
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: were built by generations past and they worked for them,

1086
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: and it is okay for us to tweak those systems.

1087
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. And so we're embedding ourselves

1088
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: with communities that are are testing those out and individuals

1089
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 1: that are trying to live intentionally, whether it's community based,

1090
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: finance based, housing based, school based, trying new things and

1091
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: trying to show people that you don't have to live

1092
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: the way your parents told you you must. There's other

1093
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: ways that are out there and they might just be

1094
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: great for you right now. The best place to find

1095
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: us is on Instagram at Life opted Out. You can

1096
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: also find us at life opted out dot com. We're

1097
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: out there looking for stories about people living this way,

1098
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: and if you're one of those people and you have

1099
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: a cool story, email us at opt out Media at

1100
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: gmail dot com and please tell us your story and

1101
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: if we're in your neighborhood, will come visit. We're in

1102
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: Atlanta right now, so that's why we're on this show. Yeah,

1103
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: we're so glad you made an in person visit to

1104
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: record Matt's fabled dining room table, and thank you guys,

1105
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: Chris and Christie so much for coming on the show.

1106
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. This has been a fascinating conversation.

1107
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: I think even for people that aren't interested in living

1108
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: life on the road, there are things that they can

1109
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: take away from this show to live their life a

1110
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: little bit differently, a little more intentionally right now, just

1111
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 1: kind of reconsider their actions with money, and you know what,

1112
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: maybe some people will be inspired to completely change things

1113
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: up and to buy a vand of their own and

1114
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: uh and outfit it and hit the road, you know,

1115
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: with their significant other, by theirself, with their family, And

1116
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: I just think that's so cool. So yeah, thank you

1117
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: guys so much for being here. Thank you, and back

1118
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: to the beery quick Joel, we had nothing left to

1119
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: give by Orpheus Brewing again, a huge thanks to Jimmy

1120
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: for donating this one to us. We'll keep our tasting short,

1121
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: but let's just say this was fantastic, full of fruit

1122
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: and lots raspberry. Oh my gosh, man, a throwback to

1123
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: that Gesture King beer that we had not too long

1124
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: agos right, this was like raspberry deliciousness. Man, I'm such

1125
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: a fan. This is actually, in all seriousness, probably my

1126
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: favorite beer. I've ever had from Orpheus for sure, and

1127
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: they make some awesome beers, so that's high praise. Yea.

1128
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: We've had Wondering Blues before, which is sort of the

1129
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: maybe the blueberry version of this one, and which was fantastic,

1130
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm with you. This one is head and

1131
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: shoulders above that. So but like we mentioned earlier, we're

1132
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: gonna post our show notes up on the website as

1133
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: usual at how to money dot com, and we'll make

1134
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: sure that we have all of those resources that Chris

1135
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: and Christie were mentioning to live free in the US.

1136
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: So all right, buddy, until next time, Best friends Out,

1137
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: Friends Out,