1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye, 2 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. If you are 3 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: listening to today's episode the day that it publishes, then uh, 4 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: we are in the midst of election day. This is 5 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: a November three, Uh, the presidential election in the United States. Hi, 6 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm Ben, Hi, I'm no a k A. The day 7 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: that will live in infamy or fami. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 8 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: Is that's a good, good question, Ben, What is the 9 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: opposite of infamy? Yeah, I don't know. We're not a 10 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: political show. Well, we're obviously human beings and have opinions. 11 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: But whatever your opinions are about the current political regime 12 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: or which direction it may or may not be heading, 13 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 1: I think we can all kind of agree that politics 14 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,639 Speaker 1: in general are a little weird and a little based 15 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: on some kind of wacky historical stuff and precedence. That's true. 16 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: That's true. It turns out it was a democracy the 17 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: way it's practiced here and abroad. Uh was a long journey. 18 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: It's a long road. It's a road we're still walking 19 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: down or up, depending on who you ask. I will 20 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: say that I once again exercise one of my favorite 21 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: rights as a citizen uh here, you know, like any 22 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: other place in the US, when you vote, even in 23 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: a presidential election, you'll often have local stuff that you 24 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: vote on too, right, like commissioner or control or whatever. 25 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: So I have once again, uh written in super producer 26 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: Casey pegram uh, this time as surveyor for our fair 27 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: county in which I vote. So Casey Uh, I would 28 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: like to be the first to congratulate you. Yeah, look 29 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: for me out there on the corner with that stick 30 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: in the you know the thing, the camera ask thing. 31 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what it does. I guess it's 32 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: like a tell us. I don't know who doesn't. But 33 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: here's a question if you if enough people write somebody 34 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: in and they don't don't even know what happens, then 35 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: do they like Okay, So, unbeknownst to you, sir, you 36 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: were written in enough times to beat you know, the 37 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: the other person running for surveyor? Um. Do you accept 38 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: the charge? Do they give you an option or are 39 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: you just kind of like you can say no? I 40 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: guess you could say no. I mean, keep in mind 41 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: there are places where there's some places where animals have 42 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: legally been elected to office. Man, they probably don't know 43 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: what's going on. They just think they're the village's favorite labrador, 44 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They're like, Wow, all the 45 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: humans here are super cool. Uh. This is interesting because 46 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: voting gets in politics and general get so ridiculous so quickly. 47 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: It's something we've talked about in the past, and no 48 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: country is immune to this, and no period of time 49 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: or days of yore wherever not ridiculous when it came 50 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: to politics and bringing up this survey example, because you 51 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: guys wouldn't have known unless I chose to say something 52 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: about it on air. Uh. And to be clear, in 53 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: our in at least where I was voting, it was 54 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: just as straight up right in I did. There wasn't 55 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: a people to choose from. Oh no, that's what I 56 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: remember that when there was, there was no other option. 57 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: It was just a right end, yes, exactly. There was 58 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: not even like what does that mean? That does that 59 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: mean the person who was the previous surveyor is retiring? 60 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: And nobody ran I didn't even know surveyor was an 61 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: elected office. We can get off of this train shortly, 62 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: but it is a good question. I was. I saw 63 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: that too, and I was like, how come there's just 64 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 1: the one right in. I would think right in would 65 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: be like, there's always a right you can you can 66 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: write in a candidate for president, you can write in 67 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: a candidate for anything. But this one it even gave 68 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: me a red flag at the end. And I didn't 69 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: write somebody in, right, You're forced to, You're forced to 70 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: write someone. So how many people wrote themselves, etcetera. The 71 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: thing is it is a secret because of the way 72 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: the voting works here in the US. UH. We have 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: a system that is meant to in theory, allow people, 74 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: individual citizens to keep their votes secret unless they choose 75 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: to publicly say their political beliefs or their intentions or 76 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 1: who they voted for, YadA, YadA, YadA. But this wasn't 77 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: always the case, which blew my mind, and we talked 78 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: a little bit off air about this. There are reasons, 79 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: like clear compelling reasons that we have secret ballots now, 80 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: and it involves some stuff that we mentioned in an 81 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: earlier episode. What was that one, Noel, It was just 82 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: about drinking at the poll and and kidnapping and just 83 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: this one particular period um where the voting process was 84 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: a bit of like a kind of a show UH 85 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: carnival type atmosphere, and we're gonna go back into that 86 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: period a little bit as well, but then move on. 87 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: And it all kind of stems from the fact that, 88 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, in a similar way to what we see now, 89 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: we're going through with the idea of the electoral college 90 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: and how the states are able to use this like 91 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: all or nothing principal to essentially award all of the 92 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: electoral college votes, you know, to a single candidate rather 93 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: than the popular vote or as anyway, it's still confusing. 94 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: I sound very confused, but it is something that has 95 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: always been a state decision, certainly not the overall election process, 96 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: but at least the way of counting the votes. Yeah, 97 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: and the electoral college is its own bag of badgers 98 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: there for sure that that maybe an episode for future day. 99 00:05:55,160 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: Uh oh man, Yeah, I mean it's it's one. It 100 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: still um keeps me up nights, just in terms of 101 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: a how it actually works and be what the function 102 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: of it is. Um. But at least it's just mired 103 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: and kind of like, you know, a pedantic procedural political convolution, 104 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: whereas the stories that we're gonna talk about today are 105 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: on the very very surface, completely outrageous. Yeah, absolutely so. 106 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: It's no secret that democracy is important. Voting is important, 107 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: but it can also be a paint in the butt, right, 108 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: It's a paint in the keyster sometimes real kick in 109 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: the pants. Uh. In our previous episode, we talked about 110 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: this thing called cooping. So people were political operatives for 111 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: one corrup party or another, think like Tammany Hall level. 112 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: They would kidnap voters. They would get them blind, stinking, drunk, 113 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: and then they would like keep them in basements and 114 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: send them out to vote multiple times. And there's different outfits, yes, 115 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: and uh okay, so that does sound like a really 116 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: fun ragor weekend right kind of, but consider that if 117 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: the voters did not play along, they could get the 118 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: snot beating out of them and they could get murdered. 119 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: Around the same time, it was quite common for different 120 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: political gangs too have dead people or fictional characters like 121 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: Captain a Habit suddenly voting, you know, and these folks 122 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: with voting elections as well as their pets, and their 123 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: votes would be counted. So people had a lot of 124 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: problems with this, understandably, and there were all these accusations 125 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: of voter fraud and calls for reform. Folks if you 126 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: think it's crazy in the weeks leading up to um 127 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: the biggest events of November three, which I think we 128 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: can agree as this episode. Uh right right, Uh, if 129 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: we ourselves two are will knock ourselves over that. That's 130 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: the thing. Though it was much crazier back in the day, 131 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: like second half of the nineteenth century. You think accusations 132 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: of voter fraud are kind of wild now, Uh, they 133 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: were both much more vocal back then and arguably much 134 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: more valid. So today we want to talk about how 135 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: we got from that chaotic time to a time in which, uh, 136 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: like the recent days when people voted in secret and 137 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: you didn't have to tell people who you voted for, 138 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: like right now. I mean. The weirdest thing about the Constitution. 139 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: It's one of those things everybody, so many people say 140 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: they love and a lot of them haven't read it. 141 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: But the thing about the Constitution says, you know, you 142 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,479 Speaker 1: should vote, it's important for democracy, but it doesn't exactly 143 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: say how US voters should cast their ballots. And that's 144 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: really where the problems begin, and that is to say 145 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: that over the past two years, the methods for voting 146 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: that aren't laid out in the Constitution, for that very 147 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: reason have varied and evolved widely. Uh. For the first 148 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: fifty years of American elections, people didn't secretly write their 149 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: vote down on a scrap of paper and shove it 150 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: in a box or a bag um, you know, for 151 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: only the select few counters to see. They actually had 152 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: to shout it out and own it. And honestly, it's 153 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: such an interesting concept because it seems like there's intent 154 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: behind it, where it's sort of like, if you really 155 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: believe in this person, you will shout their names from 156 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: the rooftops so that everyone knows. It's like literally the 157 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: exact opposite of our philosophy of of what voting should 158 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: be now. Um. And as you can imagine, that created 159 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: a lot of problems because everyone knows who you vote for, Um, 160 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: they can pretty easily formulate some opinions about you and 161 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: possibly even you know, to do you harm and target 162 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: you in that way. Um. Yeah. Because and it was 163 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: there was intent behind it, because a lot of the 164 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: founding fathers thought that secrecy was suspicious and that it 165 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: made for people, you know, leaning into self interest as 166 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: opposed to again, owning it and shouting it from the 167 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: rooftops so that people would know exactly where you stood, 168 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: and that it's like in the same way that we 169 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: know that when we can be anonymous on the internet, 170 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: it gives people a lot of opportunity to not have 171 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: to own up to their actions and to be like 172 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: completely horrible versions of themselves. I think the Founding Fathers 173 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: are taking sort of a similar approach cognitively to this. Yeah, yeah, 174 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: I agree, because they're clearly their intentions were good in 175 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: a pretty limited way because they be white dudes who 176 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: controlled the country wanted to make sure that at all 177 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: the people they considered people, again, white dudes were above 178 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: board so that the country could be ruled in an 179 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: equal manner, again for white dudes. So here's how voting worked. 180 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: If you were in the uh, if you were in 181 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: the eight hundreds up up to the eighteen hundreds or so, 182 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: here's how voting worked. You would practice something called viva 183 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: vote voice voting without that terrible accent. And it's just 184 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: as it's just as you described. NOL voters would arrive 185 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: at the courthouse, the judge would have them swear on 186 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: a Bible, you know, hand in the air, one hand 187 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: on the Bible. Uh. My name is Erasmus shoe, and 188 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: I guarantee it's me, and I swear on God that 189 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: I haven't already voted, and so they get sworn in, 190 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: and then the voter would literally yell at the clerk. 191 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: I'd say, you know, I'm real guy, last name, and 192 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: I voting for two steps Tommy for surveyor. And then 193 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: the clerk would be like, okay, uh, real guy last 194 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: name voted for two steps Tommy, and everybody around would 195 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: hear it, they would know, and then the next person 196 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: would shout, and then the next person would shout. Think 197 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: of all the problems here, especially because campaign was allowed 198 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: in the voting place, So like, if you want to 199 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: vote for an unpopular candidate, you have to go into 200 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: a room full of your opponents supporters who are probably 201 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: also drunk and rowdy, and you physically have to yell out, 202 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: I'm voting for the guy you hate, and then just 203 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: hope you get out safely. Yeah. I mean, like again, 204 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: a separated even from just like the actual uh event itself, 205 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: putting that information out there basically by design, could have 206 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: followed you home from the polls. But this is you're 207 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: talking about the atmosphere that was created at the polls. 208 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: Or people were showing up you know, uh tanked, and 209 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: it could genuinely cause like brawls and very much did um. 210 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: Moving on to colonial Pennsylvania, where the common practice for 211 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: voting was tossing beans into a hat. I like that, simple, straightforward. 212 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: But you could still see which hat people were tossing 213 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: their beans into, you know, and it's all employed by 214 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: big being of course it is Boston or otherwise. Um, 215 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: but yeah, it was essentially the eventual adoption of the 216 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: paper ballot was less about anonymity and more just about 217 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: the logistics of counting the things, right, like counting all 218 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: the beans. Imagine that job, especially in a big election. 219 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: You're the person who has it's almost like something to 220 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: have a terrible fairy tale. You have one night to 221 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: count these thousands of beans, and don't get it wrong, 222 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: because uh, the people who were hanging with you tomorrow 223 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: are gonna be hungover and angry at you. Uh so 224 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: you're right. The first paper ballots start appearing in the 225 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: early They don't roll out across the country at once. 226 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: In fact, they weren't even standardized or printed by the 227 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: government in the beginning. They were just they were scraps 228 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: of paper and you would just write your name right 229 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: the name of the candidate you were voting for on 230 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: the paper, drop it in the box. Paper all look different. 231 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: People's handwriting then as now was wildly different, at times illegible, 232 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: and newspapers even started printing out blank ballots with the 233 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: title of each office up for vote, and then you 234 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: could cut those out like a coupon and use those 235 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: to vote. Think about think about how corrupt that could be, 236 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: because then, let's say the editorial board of a newspaper 237 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: likes one candidate but not another, or they just don't 238 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: want people to vote on certain things and just don't 239 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: put it in the ballot. It's insidious. Oh man. It 240 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: gets way more crooked than that when they actually do 241 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: start adopting these paper ballots. Um, because we've got political 242 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: parties who are very wrapped up in their own selfish 243 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: political ends. You know, nothing like it is today. Um. 244 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: Oh no, it's pretty much exactly like this today, but 245 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: just a lot more aggressive and with a lot fewer 246 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: ground rules, like the idea of you know, we're not 247 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: all electioneering as the practice of going and you know, 248 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: trying to force someone at the polls to vote for 249 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: who you want them to vote for, or even just 250 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: to like wear a T shirt. You're not supposed to 251 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: wear any kind of you know, campaign garb. When you 252 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: go to the polls to vote. They try their best 253 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: to make it as neutral and comfortable a situation as possible. 254 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: And a lot of that and the political process that 255 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: we do have today is a result of all of 256 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: this shenaniganry. Um. So, in the early nineteenth century, none 257 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: of these documents, these paper ballots that they adopted, were 258 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: standardized in any way. They weren't even printed by like 259 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: a singular government body of any kind. Some of them 260 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: were as simple a process as just scratching the name 261 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: of your particular candidate on this scrap of paper and 262 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: then stuffing in that ballot box. Um. Of course, newspapers, 263 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: being kind of front and center in the printing game, 264 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: started to print ballots to be helpful, uh with you know, 265 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: like a column kind of situation, a little more like 266 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: you think of with an old timey ballot. Uh. And 267 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: that would allow folks to tear off, you know, they're 268 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: one that they wanted to vote for and then put 269 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: that in the ballot box. Um. But once the parties 270 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: got wind of all this. They looked at this as 271 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: an opportunity to stack the deck or the ballot box. 272 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: By the mid nineteenth century, UM state Republican and Democratic 273 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: party bosses would preprint these flyers uh and distribute them 274 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: to voters, but only list their candidates for office. And 275 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: again we're calling them flyers, but they were acting as ballots, 276 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: you know. And it's the same thing that we're seeing 277 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: today where you've got uh, these mail in ballots and 278 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: like the distribution of these mail in ballots or an 279 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: application to receive a mail in ballot, and it's masquerading 280 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: as a campaign flyer, so you might get like something 281 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: from the Trump campaign that is it looks strong intos 282 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: and purposes like it is either the mail in ballot 283 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: itself or an application for the mail in ballot. Either way, 284 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: that's not the proper way of going about getting it. 285 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: You can request that yourself, but by getting it from 286 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: a particular party, it's sort of can influence your decision 287 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: in some way, especially back in these days. Sort of Oh, 288 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: I think it was. Yeah, I think it was much 289 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: more than just just an influence. Because this reminds me 290 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: of the studies on whether one should opt in or 291 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: opt out of organ donations. So you know, if you 292 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: get a driver's license in the US, you have the 293 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: option to become an organ donor in the unfortunate case 294 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: you die in a car accident or something. In some 295 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: other countries they've flipped this around such that people have 296 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: to consciously opt out instead of consciously opting in. And 297 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: because people tend not to read a lot of fine prints, 298 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: and because we use our intelligence to find the easiest 299 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: solution to something, organ donation rates went up in those 300 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: countries because people were just skipping the question. They didn't 301 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: didn't have to do anything. And that's what's happening with 302 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: people who would just trust their party automatically over whatever 303 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: their own personal values were. Of course they would use 304 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: this pre printed ticket. It makes it easy to say voting. 305 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: Most voters accepted that pre selected you know, line up 306 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: that mixtape of political picks, and they wouldn't even read 307 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: the whole thing, so it may well be missing the 308 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: candidate that they thought they were voting for. And for 309 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: people who did read the whole thing, this is so bananas. 310 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: If they saw somebody that they didn't improve of for 311 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: one reason or another. On these pre printed ballots, Democratic 312 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: Republican they would physically cut just that line out of 313 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: the coupon, so there would just be a slit missing. 314 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: What they call that knifing. Knifing, I think you're right. Yeah. 315 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: And polling places also were set up just straight up 316 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: in somebody's house or uh, or in like a saloon 317 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: that had been taken over for that particular occasion. And yes, 318 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: the election officials were kind of like picture them behind 319 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: a counter or something, but there wasn't any privacy. And 320 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: the thing is that the major political powers really dug 321 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: this system. It worked for the big parties, but it 322 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: also kind of promoted what we could call insurgency anywhere 323 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: from pranksters to real political activists to like the war 324 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 1: for tricking people at the ballot box. Oh yeah, I mean, 325 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: at the very least, is a deeply flawed system with 326 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: very little oversight and very little accountability. Uh. Nowadays, you know, 327 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: if you try to vote twice, that's a felony. Um. 328 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: And these days, you know, knifers and what was also 329 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: referred to as pasterers. Um. Apparently there were buckets of 330 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: paste and a lot of these, uh you know, makeshift 331 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: polling places where folks would take and paste the name 332 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: of their chosen candidate over another name. Uh. Just absolutely 333 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: wide rife um corruption here. Even to your point, Ben, 334 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: if it wasn't all entirely nefarious by the political parties themselves, 335 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: there was just no way of knowing. I mean, I'm 336 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: sure it was mainly that, yep. And it's a business. 337 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: The candidate had to pay the local party leaders pretty 338 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: much had to bribe them to get his name on 339 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: the ballot and to cover the cost of printing these cheats, 340 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: these tickets, these flyers by votes, and perhaps most importantly 341 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: at the time, hiring thugs, hiring goons because uh, like 342 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: we said, nowadays, you can't wear a t shirt legally 343 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: that supports one candidate or another because it's considered campaigning 344 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: if you wear it at the polling place. But back 345 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: in the mid eighteen hundreds, political parties would get gangs together, 346 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: and they weren't there to just like support people or 347 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: go you know like USA, uh Wilfred Brimley for control 348 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: or no. They were there too threaten people who might 349 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: vote the other way at guns. Like seriously, I don't know, 350 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,239 Speaker 1: and we've been hearing some whispers and stuff like that 351 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: happening again today um, with like poll workers you know 352 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: that are potentially armed um and uh you know there 353 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: there have been images that I've seen of police officials 354 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: wearing political slogans near polling places uh um, and just 355 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: the presence of them alone could be intimidating enough the 356 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: feeling of being watched that you wouldn't even have to 357 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: have so many way of a gun in your face. 358 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: So all of this stuff is very interesting and very 359 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: uh insidious. So with all this, for the average voter, 360 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: you can imagine that uh, being a poll worker is 361 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: an even more dubious endeavor. Election officials would get kidnapped. Uh. 362 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: Probably one of the well the most babist and butt 363 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: head facts about the dangers of being a poll worker 364 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: is this. Poll workers also sometimes had their coffee spiked 365 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: with laxatives so that they would have to run to 366 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: the outhouse. Uh during the most important phases of counting 367 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: the vote, which is just like who came up with that? 368 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: The little rascals? I don't know, man, it seems seem 369 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: very literally dirty politics. And we talked about cooping. Do 370 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: check out that episode, Uh, let'sten. We also talked about 371 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: something else, which was the fact that drinking was actively encouraged, 372 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: and one of your big for early politicians, one of 373 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: your big your big expenses was going to be paying 374 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: for the booze because people partied at polls. It was 375 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,719 Speaker 1: like a violent spring break at the polls. And and earlier, gosh, 376 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: way back in the day. You guys remember when we 377 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: talked about George Washington and how when he was running 378 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: for I think it was the Virginia House of Burgesses, 379 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: one of his big things was how much booze he 380 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: had to give people. Wow, we already know if we 381 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: talked about a bunch on the show, his eggnog recipe 382 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: that our buddy Alex Williams, who composed our theme, makes 383 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: every year around Christmas time. Um, but yeah, man, I 384 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: mean talking to me, it's the coercion at its finest. 385 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean, they certainly weren't like funneling it into people's 386 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: throats under duress and then you know, just pushing them 387 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: off to the polls with a gun to their back. 388 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's certainly created a rowdy environment, not to 389 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: mention like a whole Oh man, Jory's the best. He 390 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: gave us. He gave us all this free brandy. Amazing, right, 391 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: He gave us. Uh, let's he gave us gallons of 392 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 1: rum and rum, punch wine, beer, hard cider. Uh. So 393 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: much so that in that election, if you do the math, 394 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: it worked out to about a half gallon of booze 395 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: per individual voter. And uh one time, William Henry Harrison 396 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: even ran on the idea of boozing voters up in 397 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: his campaign in eighteen forty. He started calling himself the 398 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: hard cider candidate. And the idea is that if you 399 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: support William Henry Harrison, then you basically get free hard cider. 400 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: That's it. You can't do that anymore. I think. Again, 401 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: we're recording this in advance of the election, so I 402 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know how that's gonna work out. 403 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: So voter fraud huge problem, right. Uh. In the eighteen fifties, 404 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: someone had the bright idea to try and address voter 405 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: fraud by like literally making a ballot box out of glass. Okay, uh, 406 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: I like that. It's sort of a postmodern solution. Um. Yeah, 407 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: making the ballot box out of glass only in San Francisco. 408 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: To my am, I am I right, you know, it 409 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: feels like a very San Franciscan kind of solution here 410 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: because people were upset. The voters, the San Francisco voters 411 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: were enraged in eighteen fifty six UM, and it was 412 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: because of the work of a committee known as the 413 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: Committee of Vigilance. They actually found that there was literally 414 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: like a trick voting box that was being implemented. It 415 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: was called a stuffers ballot box that had a false bottom, 416 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: like so that down of a magic show, and a 417 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: tin panel on the side that allowed election officials crooked 418 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: ones to stuff in fake ballance to tip the scales 419 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: in favor of their candidate of choice UM, and to 420 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: do so without anybody knows is at the very least, 421 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: as time progressed, you could not be as wantonly uh 422 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: fraudulent out in the open. You had to find more 423 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: clever ways to go about him. This is one of them. Yeah, 424 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: I just I gotta say, the Committee of Vigilance. What 425 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: I love about it is it sounds like some nineteenth 426 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: century superhero group, like a very strict Victorian Avengers. You know, 427 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: they use their h o A powers for good, like 428 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: the modern day equivalent would be the one guy whose 429 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: powers to make everybody return their shopping carts to their 430 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: appropriate places. There's an anti littering person, someone who gets 431 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: on you about late fees. Anyway, their hearts were in 432 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: the right place because people were in Since this made 433 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: national news, voters all over the nation said they were 434 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: worried about the legitimacy of the voting process, which is 435 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: odd that that's the one thing that set them off. 436 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: People are asking the question that gets asked every four 437 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: years in this country, at a minimum, how much does 438 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: my vote actually count? And in the midst of all 439 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 1: this soul searching on the part of the United States, 440 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: a man from New York named Samuel C. Jolly decided 441 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: that he could fix the problem with one very simple solution. 442 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: What's the opposite of corruption, he thought, transparency. So let's 443 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: literally do that. I'm gonna build a glass ballot box, 444 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: and he patented it, and it became popular, took off 445 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: states and communities within states were reproducing it. By eight 446 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: fifty seven, glass ballot boxes were common. And this was 447 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: in the US zeitgeist because our country was obsessed with 448 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: at least the image of fairness, and glass was also 449 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: were becoming cheap to produce, so this seemed both futuristic 450 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: and idealistic. People thought it was corruption proof. Uh. We 451 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: know a little bit about how it was constructed, because 452 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: you can still see the patent online. Uh. But it 453 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: was made, basically, uh, in such a way that you 454 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: could not make a hidden compartment or a little side 455 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: sneaky hole for your I don't know what they called 456 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: it a sneaky hole. It's a sneaky hole. Yeah, I 457 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: think my point earlier two and I was saying only 458 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, and this feels like such a postmodern solution. 459 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: There's something about it that almost feels like, um, symbolic 460 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: rather than actually functional. And then the notion of in 461 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: this paper uh called the glass ballot box and political transparency, 462 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, like it's what are you gonna visually see 463 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: every It's like those games you play where you have 464 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: like how many green eminem's are in the giant glass canister? 465 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: You know, you can make a guess, but you can't 466 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: really tell. So I think it's it was more of 467 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: a symbolic act, more of like a early kind of 468 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: political performance art than it was actually functional. Um. But uh, 469 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: like you said that there was a sense to the 470 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: public that this was a functional thing. Um. So there's 471 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: the jury is out on there, at least as far 472 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: as I'm concerned. But there were critics who declared that 473 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: since the officials were still gonna be the ones counting 474 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: the ballots, that's where the real fraud takes place, right, 475 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: It's not like you count them in an open setting 476 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: with everyone watching you do it in the back room, 477 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: And they agreed with with maybe not my performance art angle, 478 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: but that it was more of a symbolic act that 479 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: honestly in in the opposite but a similar way to 480 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: how shouting out your vote was a symbolic act because 481 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: if you owned up to it and people could find 482 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: out if they chose to, then you had to stand 483 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: by your vote. Um. But with this it was much 484 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: more about like the aftermath and like how to you know, 485 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: get the results of the election. Um. So it's hard 486 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: to kind of figure out exactly when this stopped being 487 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: a thing. I think probably started to fizzle when folks 488 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: realized the symbolic connection and that it was less of 489 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: an actual, full proof way of conducting elections then they 490 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: may be originally thought, because by that point the idea 491 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: of transparency in elections were replaced with what we now 492 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: lean on quite heavily and as the most important feature 493 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: of an election um is anonymity. Yeah, that's right. The 494 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: argument there is that if we are anonymous, then we 495 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: are slightly more dimnified against intimidation, right or physical threats. 496 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: If no one knows who you vote for, then they 497 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: can't have a problem with your vote. So the opaque 498 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: boxes go back to the polls and they have some 499 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: more innovations, and class boxes end up being quickly donated 500 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: to museums or antique shops, or my favorite, getting repurposed 501 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: as fish bulls. I bet there are a lot of 502 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: those in d C at the time. You know, it's 503 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: kind of a conversation piece. There's another thing that happened. 504 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: We should talk about it. It's a little bit of 505 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: myth busting. So one of the things we hear often 506 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: about rigged elections is, uh, so and so goes through 507 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: a graveyard, right, and they write down the names of 508 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: dead people, and then they have those dead people fraudulently 509 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: vote or they cast votes in their name. It turns 510 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: out there was something else that was happening that was 511 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: way more common, and that is known as the tissue ballot. 512 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about this. Is post civil war now, right, 513 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: So after the Civil War there's this resurgence in arguments 514 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: about election rigging, right because the country was divided, and 515 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: still culturally in very many ways, it remained divided after 516 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: the war. The Fifteenth Amendment was ratified in eighteen seventy. 517 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: It protected the right of citizens to vote. And there 518 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: was something else past that year, the Enforcement Act, which 519 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: named all the time types of known voter fraud that 520 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: could be punished. Congress did address dead voters specifically. Instead, 521 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: it was a crime to quote knowingly personate and vote 522 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: or attempt to vote in the name of any other person, 523 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: whether living, dead or fictitious. I love that they say 524 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: personate instead of impersonate. So the problem is, when you 525 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: look at this, dead voters were only a very small 526 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: part of the dilemma. Like in Jersey City, in investigators 527 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: found a lot of election fraud, a lot of rigging, 528 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: but only ten votes. Only ten of the fake votes 529 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: came from dead people. The rest appeared to be attributed 530 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: to living people who could not have physically voted. There, 531 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like out of state. Yeah, 532 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: and then it's a it's a problem that we don't 533 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: mean it's I will say this. It is interesting how 534 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: antiquated still our voting system is, like all of the 535 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: trouble we're having with trusting and mail in ballots and uh, 536 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, poll um inconsistencies at polling places where the 537 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: machines are malfunctioning, etcetera. And it's because it's an old 538 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: system in general, the idea of voting and the government 539 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: always never it always takes longer for government to catch 540 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: up to technology. Um. Then obviously it does for technology 541 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: to advance rapidly. So at this point, they didn't even 542 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: have any of the interconnectedness that we we do, or 543 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: we can at least reference if people have already voted, 544 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: or you know, if people are voting twice um. And 545 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: yet we still see something's like this happening from time 546 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: to time. So I can't imagine how you know, the 547 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: organizations in charge of of making sure voting fraud was 548 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: minimized would be able to handle this in a in 549 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: a non interconnected world. Yeah. Yeah, so it's crazy because 550 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: we've got to report from the Chicago Daily Tribute and 551 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: that gives us a sense of this. Just to summarize, 552 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: we said they found ten votes in Jersey City that 553 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: came from dead people, but five votes came from voters 554 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: who lived at houses that didn't exist, you know what 555 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: I mean, like a one four nine ash Court Lane 556 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: when the street only goes up to uh. Twenty six 557 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: ballots came from voters living in what turned out to 558 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: be vacant lots. Sixty six were frauduently cast in the 559 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: names of people who had moved away like six months 560 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: before the election. Fifty three people who had never lived 561 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: where any of the polls said they did. Only five 562 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: names got voted twice and a couple of times I think, uh, 563 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: twelve year olds and a three year old voted. So 564 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: it's definitely problem. And yet they did red flag these 565 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: issues and found them. But it just makes me think 566 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: of what we're all the ones that that slipped through 567 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: the cracks, you know, these kinds of frauds on activities 568 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: were completely overwhelmed by this notion of tissue ballots, which 569 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: were also sometimes referred to as joker ballots or kiss ballots, 570 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: and they were essentially just you know, duplicated ballots. You 571 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: could deposit what appeared to be one ballot paper ballot 572 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: into one of these boxes, but in fact it was 573 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: like seriously think about toilet paper. You know how it's 574 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: got layers. That's how the expensive to the most layers, 575 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: you can pull them apart. I used to do that 576 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: when I was a kid. That's exactly what these are. 577 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: So it's just a clever way of stuffing the ballot boxes. 578 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: They would be duplicates. I gotta wonder how if they 579 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: were stuck together in that way, how how like a 580 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: person pulling it out wouldn't have realized that that was 581 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: the case. But after the polls were closed, Uh, there 582 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: would be folks that were in on the scam that 583 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: would go and shake up the ballot boxes and it 584 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 1: would cause these, uh, these duplicate, thin tissue ballots to 585 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: to disconnect from one another. UM. And that's pretty ingenious, 586 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: really is. There's a story and by the name of 587 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: Robert M. Goldman, who, in A Free Ballot and a 588 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: Fair Account UM, one of his books on the subject, 589 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: wrote perhaps this was one of the most widespread and 590 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: ingenious methods of fraud at the time. Uh. And I 591 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: would tend to agree. I'd love to see this in action, 592 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking of a tissue paper thing. He doesn't 593 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: look like the same material that a ballot would be 594 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: printing on and if you shake it up, it's not 595 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: going to disconnect. I'm I'm fascinated by this whole process. 596 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: I want to hear more about the logistics of it. Also, 597 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm also fascinated by the implication here. Uh so people 598 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: had had multi layered toilet paper back in the eighteen hundreds. 599 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: I I had no idea, that's that's amazing what it 600 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: would seem. So if not, maybe they didn't realize at 601 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: the time the implications for this technology, you know, that 602 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: could have led to a more comfortable bathroom experience. Maybe 603 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: the inventor of tissue paper just named them after tissue 604 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: votes and they were, you know, wiping themselves and they 605 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,479 Speaker 1: were like, ha ha, this is like voting. I gotta 606 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: wonder that too. Like the word tissue, you know, I 607 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: think it maybe comes from like tissue in the body, 608 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: because tissue is usually kind of thin, like membrane like 609 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: at times, you know, So I wonder if that's where 610 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: it comes from. The first recorded use of paper for 611 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: this kind of cleaning dates back to the sixth century 612 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: in medieval China. And we talked about corn cobs in 613 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: the past. They have a dirty history anyway, that's the 614 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: story for a different day. We've outlined some of the problems, right, 615 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: and now we have to look at some of the solutions. 616 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: How do we get to secret voting? By the eight hundreds, 617 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: people who are interested in ballot reform realized that they 618 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: would need a new way to run elections. All this 619 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: stuff about making different designs of ballot boxes and so on. Uh, 620 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: it would always be little more than a band aid 621 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: to the problem. The real problem was that the process 622 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: was run or influenced so profoundly by political parties. They 623 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: were buying votes, you know, and they were sending gangs 624 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: to whip that ever loving tar out of people. And 625 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: so they looked to Australia because since the eighteen fifties, 626 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: states in Australia have been doing something a little different. 627 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: They were letting people vote in secret. That's right. Uh, 628 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: they were kind of early to the secret ballot party here. Um, 629 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: they used official ballots that were actually supplied by the 630 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: government instead of political parties. It is such a genius, 631 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: forward thinking idea. Um, but not at all. I mean 632 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: it is considering the time, but it just seems like 633 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: such an obvious thing to do, Like you need to 634 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: have it come from one place and not just from 635 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: whomever um. And they, again, in an absurdly obvious yet 636 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 1: forward thinking move, supplied the space for people to come 637 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: to vote without anyone knowing who they had picked the 638 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: people that were vote. So, man, I cannot believe that 639 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: Australia beat us to the punch on that. Yeah, well, 640 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,479 Speaker 1: we definitely learned and it's a good thing that we did. 641 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 1: Keep in mind, of course, it was not the political 642 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: parties looking to Australia for reform. The political parties maybe 643 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: didn't particularly want things to be fixed because, in their opinion, 644 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: the system wasn't broken. Uh, there's this very very close 645 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: selection in eighty four, guy may have heard of named 646 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: Grover Cleveland wins New York by just a little more 647 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,720 Speaker 1: than one thousand votes. We think New York had the 648 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 1: most electoral votes at the time, and because this vote 649 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: was so close, a lot of other observers in the 650 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: US started thinking, you know, maybe maybe Australia is onto something. 651 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: So in eight just four years later, Massachusetts becomes the 652 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: very first state in the country to adopt what they 653 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,280 Speaker 1: were calling the Australian ballot system, and then very weally 654 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: other states hopped on not all New England states like 655 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: Rhode Islands there, but so as Tennessee, Wisconsin, Washington, New York, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 656 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,320 Speaker 1: And this is where the responsibility of providing a ballot 657 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: falls on, as you said, the government falls on the state. 658 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: They have to provide voters with official ballots and voting booths, 659 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: have to figure out what these look like, how it works. 660 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: That had a lot of back and forth about how 661 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: to design this thing, because you know, we have to 662 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: keep in mind at this point they're physically making these 663 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: little partitions or tiny rooms so that no one can 664 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: see you right what you're writing. Basically, we do have 665 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: to mention despite these great successes, these changes did not 666 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: benefit every single American resident. Even with the government printed ballot. 667 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: We have to understand that voters had to read and 668 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: that made it much harder for immigrants, for people who 669 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: had survived slave, for people who were illiterate or uneducated, 670 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: it made it more difficult for them to vote even 671 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: when they could. Still a nation soldiered on by US residents, 672 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: and thirty nine out of forty five states cast secret 673 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:22,879 Speaker 1: government printed ballots. Uh, and the turnout was that's about 674 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: what it had been since the eighteen thirties, and since 675 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: that point it's been falling more or less steadily. Of course, 676 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: you know, again, we're recording this in the past, so 677 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: we don't know what's happening the day you hear this, 678 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. No, we do not, and 679 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 1: I think I'm I'm fine with it that way. For now. 680 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: Let's just live and our imagined reality of a utopian America. 681 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: Um or at Yeah, I mean, let's just think. Let's 682 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,959 Speaker 1: think how far we've come. You know, at least there's 683 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: no goon squads at the polls beating us with truncheons 684 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: and the like. Um So I'll take that as a 685 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,399 Speaker 1: as a positive. I will say this, though we are 686 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: still we sort of alluded to this at the top 687 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: of the show, in a place where the states do 688 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: still constitutionally have the right to kind of use their 689 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 1: own voting mechanisms, which doesn't manifest itself in nearly as 690 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: extreme ways as it used to. Now it's much more 691 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: just about little design changes between voting booths or which 692 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: vendor you go through to get your UH, to get 693 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: your report, you know, to get the required devices to 694 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: to cast your ballots. And um, but there still is 695 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: no like central requirement for the design are these booths 696 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: and some probably work a little better than others. And 697 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 1: I remember, you know when the some states or your 698 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: counties stuck with the paper ballots. Even the mandate the 699 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,799 Speaker 1: idea of like using electronic voting, I don't believe as 700 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,800 Speaker 1: a mandate, ben is it is It just kind of like, Okay, 701 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: we've updated, this is the newest available technology, and we 702 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: are going to do this because it sounds to me 703 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: like there's no central There could not be a centralized 704 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: requirements saying you can't use paper ballots anymore. By my 705 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: thoughts on this better perhaps suited better for a different show, 706 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, but shout out to the 707 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: Hanging Chad's. You guys, remember that that would have been 708 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: a great band name. And the Hanging Becky's, you know, 709 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: may may, may they live in prosper, long may they hang? Yes, 710 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,720 Speaker 1: So this is this is a look at the journey 711 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: towards secret ballots, which nowadays everybody agrees are important, indeed 712 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: vital to a functioning democracy. But we've used a couple 713 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: of words here that are specific to elections. So we 714 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: thought we'd in the episode by giving you just just 715 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: a little little taste for all all the fellow etymology 716 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: nerds out there. Uh, we're gonna we're gonna tell you 717 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: where the word ballot comes from, as well as the 718 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: word rigged. That's right, ballot, Uh, it turns out comes 719 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 1: from an Italian word ballotta um or little ball uh. 720 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think of this, I think 721 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: of a ballot, I think of a little ball, and 722 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: I think of sort of I guess, the opposite of voting, 723 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: which is like random drawing in like a lottery or 724 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: a bingo situation where you have a giant tumbling cage 725 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 1: full of little balls with numbers on them. But apparently 726 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 1: in the early days, a ballot was uh something kind 727 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: of ball like was a ball or at least something 728 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: sort of appearing to be a ball, like remember the 729 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: beans that was your ballot, or a p or a 730 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: tiny rock or even a bullet. That's my favorite. That way. 731 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: That's just seems to a hardcore you know what I mean, 732 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: It's like a mercenary vote before we go in for 733 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: a black bag operation. Yeah. And then like many things 734 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,879 Speaker 1: that that that word it just was just adopted even 735 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 1: though the form completely changed. So that's why we we 736 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 1: We were a people of tradition. So what we call 737 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: our paper um vote things, ballots and rigg The word 738 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,359 Speaker 1: rigged has nothing to do with maritime history. I think 739 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: that's an assumption a lot of people have made. I 740 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: made that in the past when it's like, oh, you know, 741 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 1: you like rig the mass if your brigotine or whatever. 742 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: I know what boats are, just because that's how I 743 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: am sometimes, but I was wrong. Rigged refers to a prank, 744 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: a scheme, a swindle, or a con like an early 745 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: shell game known as thimble rig And some people think 746 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: that rig comes from an old phrase to play rex 747 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: to quote act like a lord or master. So by 748 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: the eighteen twenties and thirties, people were saying rigged, and 749 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: I don't know, did anybody else think it meant like 750 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: rigging a ship? Well, it certainly is that right. It 751 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: refers often to equipment or pieces of kit, you know, 752 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: like a truck driver often refers to their truck as 753 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: their rig or a big rig, and musicians often refer 754 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: to their combination of different components, like a guitar setup 755 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 1: with pedals and and amplifier. Aaron Penn when you know 756 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: all the chords to go along with it as their rig, 757 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: you know, my my scynth rig, my guitar rig, my 758 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: bass rig, you know, and and ben off my I 759 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: was sort of questioning, like, is this a different etymology? 760 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: Is this like a diverge at some point? Is this 761 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: this version of rig referring to a different origin word? 762 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: And I think you um mentioning that it could have 763 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 1: to do with just more slang uses that makes a 764 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: lot of sense. Well, I mean, hey, we love slang. 765 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 1: We make up slang all the time on this show. 766 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,800 Speaker 1: It's a living language, and it's a it's a living vote. 767 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: We ran a little long on this episode, but we 768 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: wanted to share this story and we thought it was 769 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 1: appropriate for these are modern days. We hope that you 770 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: enjoyed it, uh, and we hope that you tune in 771 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: for our next episode when we finally cover something that 772 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: we've just started calling stove goblin. Yeah but stylized with 773 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 1: spaces in between like vapor wave aesthetic. Yes, yeah, actually 774 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: I have. I was writing the episode description and I 775 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: was thinking, are they gonna let me get away? Which 776 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: is writing this is just stove goblin? Yeah. Oh, yeah, 777 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,280 Speaker 1: I'll let you get away with plenty of Ben. Yeah. 778 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: So thank you Noel, and thank you super producer Casey 779 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: Pegram and as always, thanks to Alex Williams who composed 780 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: our theme. Christopher hasciotis here in spirit, Jonathan Strickland the Quister, 781 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,920 Speaker 1: long may he rain. I hope we have them back 782 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: pretty soon. I think it's around that time. Or should 783 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:33,800 Speaker 1: I say about that, damn gentleman. Yes, yes, it is 784 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: a very likely scenario that we will have him return soon. Uh. 785 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 1: And of course, as always, thanks to Christo Rosciotis. Thanks 786 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: to Eve's Jeff co. We want to hear your ridiculous 787 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: voting stories of yesteryear, the wildest stuff you've ever heard 788 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: about the history of voting. Let us know we're on 789 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: the internet. Uh, not just as this show, but as individuals. 790 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: It's true. If you wish, you can find me on 791 00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: Instagram exclusively at how Now Noel Brown, how about you, Ben? 792 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: You can find me Ben Bulleen hs W on Twitter. 793 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Ben Bolan. Uh. 794 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,279 Speaker 1: And I gotta say you know I I voted early 795 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: this time. You guys did did you vote earlier? You? 796 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: Day of Oh? No, I voted earlier. I voted as 797 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,320 Speaker 1: early as I possibly could, and it was a delight. 798 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: I pity the fools who have to stand in those 799 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 1: crazy lines on actual election day. Yeah, I if it 800 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 1: wasn't a pandemic. I actually really love going and doing 801 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,919 Speaker 1: it day of. But if you think about it, that's 802 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 1: the last day to vote. It's not really the voting day, 803 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,439 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's exactly right. We'll see 804 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: you next time, folks. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, 805 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,320 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 806 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.