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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson. Katie Gustufson, who's here.

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Speaker 2: She is the Enneagram informed therapist and coach that's been

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Speaker 2: on the podcast a couple of times. Hi Katie, Kelly,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being back with us today.

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Speaker 3: Oh thanks for having me. I always love coming to

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Speaker 3: talk to you. Such a truth.

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Speaker 2: We love having you on. I'm obsessed with the enneagram

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Speaker 2: and I know so many of my listeners are as well.

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Speaker 2: And I initially reached out to you because it kind

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Speaker 2: of dawned on me when we were going through our

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Speaker 2: topic for this month, which is Cobwebs about Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: there are so many parts of the enneagram that we

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Speaker 2: don't dive into, and that includes the core fears. And

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Speaker 2: so when I was thinking about cobwebs and just the

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Speaker 2: enneagram popped into my head because of some stuff that

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Speaker 2: I was going through, and I thought, this is such

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Speaker 2: an interesting take, like looking at the fears that drive

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Speaker 2: are the core few years of each number, and how

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Speaker 2: much that actually is driving our behavior, whether it's conscious

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Speaker 2: or unconscious. So I had texted you because you know,

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Speaker 2: I've talked a little bit about this on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: But I've been going through some somatic therapy, which is

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Speaker 2: life changing and just crazy and such an interesting experience.

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Speaker 2: But I went through a bunch of traumatic events all

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Speaker 2: at the same time, and so it feels kind of

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Speaker 2: crazy when you're like four years later just being able

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Speaker 2: to talk about things and work on certain things. But

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Speaker 2: that's where I am, and some of it has to

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Speaker 2: do with this public embarrassment that I had on a

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Speaker 2: reality TV show that I was on. And for listeners

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Speaker 2: that are new, they might be like, what, I didn't

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Speaker 2: even know this about her, and you've even said, like,

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Speaker 2: I know you so separate from that that it doesn't

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Speaker 2: even like dawn on me. But that was a part

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Speaker 2: of my story, and it's something that I've been working

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Speaker 2: on a lot because I'm seeing how hard it's become

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Speaker 2: for me to like put myself out there, Like I

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Speaker 2: feel a little frozen in my public life that I

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Speaker 2: never have felt before this experience, and so I started

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Speaker 2: thinking about that because I was like, gosh, this was

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Speaker 2: so traumatic for me, Yet I do see other people

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Speaker 2: go through similar things and not really have the same

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Speaker 2: reaction to it, and so I kind of started to

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Speaker 2: deep dive into why it was impacting me that way,

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Speaker 2: and the enneagram was one of the main things that

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Speaker 2: popped into my head because one of the core fears

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Speaker 2: of the number four is being misunderstood, and that was

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Speaker 2: like the main part of that story was there was

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Speaker 2: stuff that was being said about me that wasn't true,

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Speaker 2: and then the public was reacting as if and responding

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Speaker 2: to me as if that was a true statement, and

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Speaker 2: I just froze instead of being able to find words

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Speaker 2: or talk or do anything. It completely crippled me. So

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Speaker 2: it just got me thinking about this whole thing, like

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Speaker 2: how much do our core fears actually impact what we're

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Speaker 2: doing on a daily basis?

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Speaker 3: Totally thanks for sharing that, because that sets this conversation

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Speaker 3: up just perfectly, and I feel I feel like, as

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Speaker 3: as hard as it has been for you to revisit

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Speaker 3: some of those traumas I always think about when I

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Speaker 3: think about fear and how much it drives our behavior

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Speaker 3: kind of steers the ship. I think about. This is

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Speaker 3: gonna like probably make you laugh. Do you ever see

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Speaker 3: the movie Batman Begins?

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Speaker 2: Which one was that long time agour news.

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Speaker 3: Nail It's all okay, okay, two thousand and five six

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Speaker 3: somewhere on there. Okay, so it kind of gives you

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Speaker 3: the backstory on how he becomes Batman. And he had

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Speaker 3: this early memory of falling into this cave on his

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Speaker 3: family's estate. You know, he's kind of out wandering, you know,

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Speaker 3: too far, and he falls into this cave little you know,

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Speaker 3: little Bruce, and he goes and he he kind of

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Speaker 3: is like like getting his bearings, looks looks around, and

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Speaker 3: all of the sudden, he kind of his vision kind

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Speaker 3: of narrows in on this massive wall of bats and

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Speaker 3: they just start they fly all over him, and it's

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Speaker 3: it's totally terrifying, right, I'm terrible six time. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: so trying. Yeah. So anyways, the point of this story

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Speaker 3: is that movie shows where Bruce Wayne goes back into

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Speaker 3: this fear of his He revisits the cave that he

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Speaker 3: had that traumatic experience, and he purposefully, you know when

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Speaker 3: he's able to, which is years and years and years later,

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Speaker 3: goes back into the cave and experiences this swarm of

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Speaker 3: bats and and the you know, kind of the Hollywood

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Speaker 3: like dramatic way, he in that kind of moment really

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Speaker 3: becomes Batman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like totally faces the fear and he embraces it. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in a very theatrical way. But it's such a

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Speaker 3: good picture to kind of reverse engineer this whole conversation.

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Speaker 3: You know, how do you work with the fear that's

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Speaker 3: specific to your enneagram type? We have to go back

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Speaker 3: into it in a safe way. And what you just

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Speaker 3: described in the work that you're doing four years later,

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Speaker 3: is you described going back into the fear or going

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Speaker 3: back into the that, you know, the emotional kind of

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Speaker 3: overlay of those really really traumatizing events.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and doing.

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Speaker 3: Some healing work in that space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the interesting thing about that, the way you

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Speaker 2: just said that is a lot of people say to

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Speaker 2: me like why would you you know, like why would

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Speaker 2: you go back into that? Like you can move past it,

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Speaker 2: you seem fine, blah blah blah blah blah. But for me,

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Speaker 2: I knew I wasn't fine. Like I know that I'm

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Speaker 2: not operating at a certain level that I'm capable of

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Speaker 2: or as my authentic self fully, because I can feel

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Speaker 2: the difference, and the I just know like the only

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Speaker 2: way out is through. I've just been taught that for

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Speaker 2: so long and I just believe it. That's been my experience.

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Speaker 2: And so if I don't go face it, like to

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Speaker 2: go back to your analogy, if I don't go back

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Speaker 2: in the cave, it's still there. It's just like drying

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Speaker 2: me in this way that's not necessarily in my conscious

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Speaker 2: mind on a day to day or you know, minute

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Speaker 2: to minute. But I want to like clear it out,

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Speaker 2: like face it, clear it out, and actually move forward.

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Speaker 2: And that's just been the way that I've dealt with

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Speaker 2: most things in my life. But people think I'm crazy,

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Speaker 2: like that looks really hard and painful and not fun.

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Speaker 2: But I just think fears can drive us in this

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Speaker 2: most like insane ways.

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Speaker 3: Truly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just not worth it. I'd rather face it

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Speaker 2: and be done.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think what you I mean to me, that's

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Speaker 3: the essence of courage, right. It's it's really kind of

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Speaker 3: that opposite of fear or so it's not you're it's

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Speaker 3: it's not that you don't have any fear anymore. It's

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Speaker 3: just that you're showing up in spite of the fear. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And that's what I've seen you do ever since I

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Speaker 3: have done you, is just to keep like showing up

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Speaker 3: as honestly as possible and live in integrity with yourself,

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Speaker 3: which does include a lot of meeting the fear and

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Speaker 3: moving through the fear and working.

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Speaker 2: With Yeah, well let's dive into the enneagram numbers and

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Speaker 2: the fear a little bit. But let's start with why

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Speaker 2: is it important to understand your fear? I mean, because

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Speaker 2: we kind of just touched on that, right. If you

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Speaker 2: don't look at it, it's that thing that's looming in

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Speaker 2: the shadows, but it's probably driving some of your behavior.

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Speaker 2: So is that something you see a lot with any

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Speaker 2: of your clients that you're talking to about this enneagram stuff?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know, our personalities. The enneagram is this dynamic

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Speaker 3: kind of grand theory or system, if you will. It's

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Speaker 3: a tool that we use to understand the nine core

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Speaker 3: personality types in the world, one of which we all

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Speaker 3: gravitated to, one of which each of us gravitated to

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Speaker 3: in early childhood. So you know, the personality is wild.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of this mashup of like temperament, innate qualities,

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Speaker 3: coping strategies, defense mechanism, affects, and our childhood experience really

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Speaker 3: helps to shape our personalities, and our personalities are protective mechanisms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just.

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Speaker 3: A big old survival strategy for planet Earth. That's really

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Speaker 3: kind of our personality becomes this kind of survival strategy

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Speaker 3: that we live out of based on whatever was going

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Speaker 3: on around us as little little people. As some people

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Speaker 3: had really steep staircases to climb, right, yeah, just didn't

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Speaker 3: have the glaring kind of drama and trauma and chaos,

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Speaker 3: but we all had. We all had a landing, no

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Speaker 3: matter you know, how gentle it was or how how

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Speaker 3: kind of ruckus it was, Like, we all have one.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, our personalities are incredibly helpful tools.

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Speaker 3: And so really the enneagram teaches that these personalities are

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Speaker 3: defensive structures that form around a lot of times a

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Speaker 3: childhood wound. And now this can be a literal wound,

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Speaker 3: it could be a perceived wound. But we all, you know,

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Speaker 3: like we come into the world and we are not fearful. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like we're born into the world. We're not afraid. We're

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Speaker 3: just incredibly vulnerable. But we're open and we're curious, and

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Speaker 3: we're just kind of you know, live in moment to moment.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't take long, however, to realize that the world

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Speaker 3: that we live in and the people that are around

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Speaker 3: us are less than perfect, right, Yeah, it doesn't take

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Speaker 3: long for us to kind of kind of wake up

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Speaker 3: to this fact that this this like I got to

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Speaker 3: I got to work to get some of these needs met.

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Speaker 3: And it's really important for me to get the approval

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Speaker 3: of others so that I can fit in and belong

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Speaker 3: and feel loved and accepted. And so what is the

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Speaker 3: most brilliant strategy of doing that our personality and how

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Speaker 3: the core fear fits in that is, if these defensive

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Speaker 3: strategies form around series of events or childhood experiences as

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Speaker 3: little people, fear is going to be really really helpful

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Speaker 3: in helping us sniff out anything that remotely smells like

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Speaker 3: that old wound.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait, I have a question first, because you're talking

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Speaker 2: about childhood and how that impacts our personality. So are

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Speaker 2: we born a certain Enneagram number or do we kind

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Speaker 2: of like come into that? Is it? Is it like

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Speaker 2: the nature versus nurture thing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I I have friends in the Enneagram community that

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Speaker 3: really believe we're born with our type. Okay, I don't

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Speaker 3: think that that's the case. I think it's I think

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Speaker 3: it's nature and nurture. I think we're definitely born with temperament.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I have a four year old kid who is the

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Speaker 3: biggest extrovert I've ever met in my life, right at

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Speaker 3: four years old, and my husband and I are both

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Speaker 3: pretty introverted. Like, he has his own thing going on

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Speaker 3: that we have very little to do with, right Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So I think he's definitely like we're all born with temperament,

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Speaker 3: with these innate kind of qualities. But again, I think

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Speaker 3: it's a mixture. It's a mixture of our early experience

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Speaker 3: as people. Okay, what was happening around us, kind of attachment,

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Speaker 3: this feeling of did we have a tunement with our

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Speaker 3: you know, original caregivers? What did that look like? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think it's both. I really I think it's both.

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Speaker 2: So if that's the case, does some of it become

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Speaker 2: amplified about these fears like do we pick these kind

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Speaker 2: of let me think of how to say what I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to say. It's like, I'm thinking, Okay, I'm a four.

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Speaker 2: Did I become a four because of some things that

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Speaker 2: maybe went on in my childhood? And so then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, like I felt very misunderstood or whatever.

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Speaker 2: So you start to kind of build your personality around

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Speaker 2: these fears. Does that make sense? I don't even know

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Speaker 2: what I'm.

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Speaker 3: Trying to say, So I'm tracking, I'm tracking. Okay, Okay, yes,

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Speaker 3: I think it's It's again, it's like fours typically have

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Speaker 3: a more reserve temperament. Yeah, a little bit more to themselves,

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Speaker 3: kind of more attuned to their interior experience. So there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of temperament stuff going on. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: mean to your point around this childhood wound of the

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Speaker 3: four has a lot to do with abandonment and either

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Speaker 3: having a perceived experience or a real experience of being

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Speaker 3: abandoned and not understanding that, and so they make it

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Speaker 3: be about something that's wrong with them. Yeah, so there's

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Speaker 3: that wound, and so what do little fours do? They

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Speaker 3: learn how to make themselves really special in the eyes

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Speaker 3: of other people so that they won't be left, that

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Speaker 3: they won't they won't have to relive that fear. So

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Speaker 3: that's where the fear kind of kicks in.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I see, Yeah, So let's go back to number one.

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Speaker 2: Let's start back there. Yeah, so ya, Type one, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Type one's basic. And again, I like for anybody that's

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Speaker 3: kind of new to this system, we've done episodes that

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Speaker 3: they can revisit.

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Speaker 2: Multiple episodes with Katie. If you guys, just put in

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Speaker 2: Velvet's Edge and Katie Gustafson, which I will put in

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Speaker 2: the description this podcasts so you know how to spell.

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Speaker 2: But you'll see that we've done just a breakdown of

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Speaker 2: enneagram numbers and then some other stuff about some other

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Speaker 2: drivers and the wings. I remember us talking a lot

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Speaker 2: about that there's a lot of layers to the enneagram,

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Speaker 2: so if you are new, you may want to go

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Speaker 2: back and start with one of those. But this is

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Speaker 2: kind of like a deeper dive into something we were

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Speaker 2: saying this before. I have never heard anyone talk about

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Speaker 2: the core fears in nyagram, Like I just don't hear

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Speaker 2: that talked about as much, and to me as like

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Speaker 2: even just the example I was giving earlier, I'm starting

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Speaker 2: to realize, oh, this is probably a major driver for

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Speaker 2: a lot of the things that I do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, because again, fear is a protective emotion.

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Speaker 2: Totally, and we've all developed these survival skills. Yeah kids,

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Speaker 2: Like you said, right.

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Speaker 3: So the fear is really in its kind of own

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Speaker 3: little organism trying to be helpful, trying to help stay safe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and.

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Speaker 3: That's that fight or flight. It sounds like you said

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Speaker 3: you froze.

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Speaker 2: I was in fight or flight for a long time,

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Speaker 2: and then I think, yeah, it went into freeze. And

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Speaker 2: that was the thing I actually recognized more because I

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Speaker 2: think I've probably been in fighter flight for a long time.

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Speaker 2: So you get you do, you get a little more comfortable,

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Speaker 2: you know, and as what I assumed was like overachieverness,

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Speaker 2: but I actually think I was probably in flight a

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Speaker 2: lot of my adult life, just like I've got to go.

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Speaker 2: I gotta go, you know, like give me more coffee,

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Speaker 2: let me power through this. And then I just got

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Speaker 2: to be too much and I went into freeze, which

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Speaker 2: is like, well, why can't I get out of bed

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Speaker 2: feeling Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Totally, totally. Yeah. So Type one's fear being bad, be corrupt,

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Speaker 3: and really ultimately unworthy. A lot of times I hear

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Speaker 3: ones talk about an early experience where they were publicly

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Speaker 3: humiliated or embarrassed somehow, maybe at school or on the playground,

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Speaker 3: and so, you know, as little improvers, you know, they

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Speaker 3: really learned early on just how good it felt to

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Speaker 3: do the right thing, to stay in their lane, to

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Speaker 3: be teacher's little helper, to avoid any kind of situation

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Speaker 3: that might kind of reveal any kind of like unsavory

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Speaker 3: part of who they are. Yeah, so they develop these

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Speaker 3: really rigid kind of standards and ways of moving through

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Speaker 3: the world, and you know, in their most vibrant expressions,

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Speaker 3: they're really world changers, right because they are just incredibly

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Speaker 3: committed to making themselves in the world around them a

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Speaker 3: better place. However, just this fear of being corrupt and

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Speaker 3: bad and kind of found out is driving the show

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Speaker 3: a whole lot, and that really fuels that perfectionism and

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Speaker 3: that inner critic that is so loud for type ones.

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Speaker 2: So the one is the perfectionist? Is that the right name?

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Speaker 2: So how do you see that manifests in people's lives?

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Speaker 3: Oh so many different ways? I mean in a good

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Speaker 3: sense or in an unhelpful sense, like.

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Speaker 2: With the fear piece of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I think a lot of you know, I

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Speaker 3: think I think perfectionism is really all about fear. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's all about fear and control, right, and control is

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Speaker 3: like at the heart of control as fear. So if

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Speaker 3: I it's kind of a little bit of a god complex.

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Speaker 3: If I don't do this the right way, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to get done.

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Speaker 2: It's nobody.

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Speaker 3: Nobody can do it like I can. You know. I

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Speaker 3: think ones their fear kind of keeps them stuck, and

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Speaker 3: this inability to delegate, and just this real hyper self

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Speaker 3: criticism in others, criticism because they're so afraid of the

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Speaker 3: just the humanity in themselves that could leak out sideways

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Speaker 3: and be miss misunderstood or mistaken for bad behavior, you know,

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Speaker 3: So they just stay so buttoned up, which is you know,

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Speaker 3: that rigidity I think is a byproduct of fear, fear

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Speaker 3: of being you know, unworthy in some in some way.

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Speaker 2: So if there are ones listening, do you have some

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Speaker 2: feedback on maybe some tips to kind of get in

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Speaker 2: touch with this fear that's driving them.

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Speaker 3: You know. I love using kind of the the arrows,

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Speaker 3: the lines on the enneagram. If you look at type one,

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Speaker 3: they're the line that points to type seven, which is

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Speaker 3: where where type ones go in security. And I think

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Speaker 3: the seven is such a good influence for type ones

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Speaker 3: because they're so playful, right, Yeah, they're so curious, and

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Speaker 3: they're so in the moment, and and and and they

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Speaker 3: can when their health right. It's the high sight of

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Speaker 3: that number. So I think ones can really kind of

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Speaker 3: it's it's going to be hard to just get rid

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Speaker 3: of that inner critic. But I think the thing that

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Speaker 3: I love to encourage ones to do is to practice

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Speaker 3: curiosity instead of instead of self criticism, to practice playing

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Speaker 3: first instead of you know this really like hyper responsibility

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Speaker 3: to get the job done right, to really loosen that

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Speaker 3: grip of their personality and relax into this kind of

335
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Speaker 3: more curious, playful space where I think, I don't know

336
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Speaker 3: about you, but curiosity helps me stay out of fear.

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Speaker 3: When I'm curiously something and move towards it a little

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Speaker 3: bit more, I can kind of tease it out a

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Speaker 3: little bit more. But if I'm so bound by you know,

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Speaker 3: fear and control that is running the show.

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Speaker 2: I love that point because or one of my I

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Speaker 2: don't know if this is a therapist or a mentor

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Speaker 2: back in the day told me just stay curious, like

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Speaker 2: even about my own behaviors, why I was responding certain

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Speaker 2: ways to certain things, and that shift in mentality, just

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Speaker 2: that tiny little stay curious versus like what you said,

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Speaker 2: going into the self criticism and all of that stuff,

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Speaker 2: it does make everything feel a lot lighter. And then

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Speaker 2: a lot of times you realize and I would wonder

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Speaker 2: if anyone's listening would resonate with this. But you do

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Speaker 2: realize you don't really know how life is mapped out,

352
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Speaker 2: like none of us really know, you know. And so

353
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Speaker 2: a lot of times if you set your vision to

354
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Speaker 2: something or a certain way it's going to be, you

355
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Speaker 2: kind of missed all the opportunities there are for greatness.

356
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Speaker 2: So kind of staying curious versus really attaching to it

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Speaker 2: has to be done. Like the rigidity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that.

359
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Speaker 2: Makes a ton of sense that. Okay, let's move to

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Speaker 2: the two, the caretaker.

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Speaker 3: So, man, I think there's so many for it. I

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Speaker 3: think two's two's, in my mind, are the type that

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Speaker 3: is most simplified over simplified of all the type. Okay,

364
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Speaker 3: so Type two's fear being unlovable, I mean I think

365
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Speaker 3: that to me, that's the core of They fear being dispensable,

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Speaker 3: So you know, early on a lot of I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think heart types in generals two threes and fours

368
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Speaker 3: had a love need that didn't get met, but definitely

369
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Speaker 3: type twoskay, And so they spend their time and energy

370
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Speaker 3: kind of ensuring connection with others in relationships, and this

371
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Speaker 3: is often engineered by helping and by giving. You know,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say that twos can be just like kind

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Speaker 3: of drilled down to helpers. They're just they just want

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Speaker 3: to help. They just are helping, and they're just here

375
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Speaker 3: to help with the cast role in hand at all times.

376
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Speaker 3: It's like like I feel like twos, they're like we

377
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: all are very complex. Yeah, and so everything that they

378
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: do is really focused on other people. Is on other people.

379
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Speaker 3: So their own personal needs and desires really get they

380
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 3: fall asleep to them really the back burner, and they're

381
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 3: they're always wanting to maintain engineer this connection and relationship

382
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Speaker 3: to people around them because this fear is driving the

383
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Speaker 3: show that you know, if they did have their own

384
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Speaker 3: needs and desires, if they were really difficult and had

385
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Speaker 3: boundaries that that might that might turn people away.

386
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Speaker 2: Oh, so they operate from a boundary less giver or

387
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Speaker 2: place to earn the love that they in the place

388
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Speaker 2: in these people, in these relationships. Yeah, Okay, So how

389
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Speaker 2: much of a two's behaviors are authentically what they want

390
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Speaker 2: to want to do? Now I'm confused.

391
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Speaker 3: Well, it's a good it's a really good question. I

392
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: think healthy twos are really have had to do the

393
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Speaker 3: work of learning, how to set boundaries, learning how to

394
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Speaker 3: say no, how to spend time in solitude, like they

395
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: go to the you know, the type four there's that

396
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: growth path that really invites them like you and I

397
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 3: as four as we could just sit around and drink

398
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: coffee on our own, you know, all day long and

399
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 3: have a big old time, right.

400
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: The best day for me?

401
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think for a for a two,

402
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: that's really scary to give myself that. And so again

403
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 3: that's going back into the fear for them is really

404
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 3: putting their needs first, putting their desires first, spending that

405
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 3: time going inward and quieting down to that voice inside

406
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: that I think was pretty shut down early on. So yeah,

407
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 3: so that so that's that's that's a big kind of

408
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: invitation for Type twos to go against that fear, you know,

409
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 3: because I think growth this healing work. As you you

410
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: very well know this, but I think it's such a

411
00:26:51,600 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 3: combination of real just relentless self compassion and also challenging

412
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 3: the limiting patterns that are at play in our personality.

413
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 3: So it's like both and we got to let itself

414
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 3: into it. But there has to be a little bit

415
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: of discomfort, you know, because the work is going to

416
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 3: go against these very ingrained structures and patterns of behavior

417
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: that we've been living out of our whole lives.

418
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: Well, and like you said, if we've picked them up

419
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: in childhood, or they came from something that happened in childhood,

420
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: it's the story. Like you've heard people say, the story

421
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: in my head is, and it is, it's the story

422
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: in our head. But until we even recognize that it's

423
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 2: just a story, it's the driver of all things. And

424
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 2: you can't fully grasp oh, there may be another story,

425
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 2: you know, like maybe this is just a fake story,

426
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: and I need to look at the other opportunities for

427
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: a different kind of story or have someone present that

428
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: to you. But stepping into that new narrative is really

429
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 2: really scary.

430
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so well said. You nailed it. I mean,

431
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: our personalities really do become the stories that we live

432
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: out of, well into like middle age, right, yeah, you know,

433
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: but these are stories that were made up by a

434
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: six year old. Right, So six year olds are really

435
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 3: great storytellers, but they're really shitty interpreters.

436
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: Right.

437
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: They don't have depth of insight, they don't have context.

438
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 3: It's just you know, it's like I see it all

439
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 3: the time with my son. You know, if I don't

440
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 3: get to eat this popsicle before breakfast, I might die,

441
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 3: Like I.

442
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: Don't, right, You're like, you're not gonna die.

443
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 3: Fine, let's just babystep this, you know. But these stories,

444
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a silly example, but that's kind of

445
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: an example of some of these just wild stories that

446
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: we made up as little people in order to kind

447
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: of make sense of the world around us. Sure, things

448
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 3: that we were experiencing that were a little scary.

449
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it seems like you're very black and white

450
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: type thinking, because I think that's probably as when we're younger,

451
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: that is the only option, right, If this happened, then

452
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: that means this, and it's just like that's got to

453
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: be it. That's the only way that my mind can

454
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: wrap its head around this. And it's like you said,

455
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: if before would be like turnal themselves or whatever it is.

456
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think we like hold onto those narratives,

457
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: and then you get into adult life and it's like,

458
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: oh wait, there is a whole lot of gray happening

459
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: in adult life, and if you don't learn to work

460
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: with that, it can leave you feeling very stuck.

461
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: Well, what happens, I think is that these little personalities

462
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: have to grow and expand to kind of facilitate the

463
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: complexities of life as an adult, and they get so

464
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: overgrown that we can't tell the difference between our personality

465
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: and our true self. That's yeah, that's where this work.

466
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: That's where the waking up happens. And sometimes that takes

467
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 3: a traumatic experience in your life to like get you

468
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: into therapy. Yeah, sometimes it takes a loss. Sometimes it

469
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: takes a really jarring event to kind of be that

470
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 3: wake up call.

471
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: All right, let's get to the threes.

472
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: Threes our neighbor. Their fear is failure, as being a failure.

473
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: The three are achievers, right.

474
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, are the achievers performers, But yeah, it's it's

475
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: this fear of being, it's fear of failure, which would

476
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: basically render them not valuable. Okay, So early on, you know,

477
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: they kind of garnered this love and acceptance through their

478
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: really impressive kind of achievements as little people. They just

479
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 3: learned how to do things just really at a high

480
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 3: level early on and got so much great feedback from

481
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: this that they kind of mixed up love with success

482
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:23,239
Speaker 3: so you know, they are walking around really trying to

483
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: maintain this sense of value for themselves, the sense of success. Yeah,

484
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: but it has everything to do with what they what

485
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: they do, instead of who they are.

486
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: Oh it's so interesting. I love when we go through

487
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: these because you know, as you say the description of

488
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: each one or the core feir, I'm thinking of the

489
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: people in my life that have these numbers, and if

490
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: anyone out there is a three or knows a three.

491
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: One of the things that I think I struggle with

492
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: my three friends the most is I'm like, Okay, you

493
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: seem exhausted. You need to take a break. Like that

494
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: sounds really easy to me to be like, okay, I'm

495
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: overloaded now I have to take a break like those

496
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would say it's easy, because

497
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 2: I struggle with that in the past. But like I

498
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: can see where those two things make sense. And I

499
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: watched my friends you were threes really really struggle to

500
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: lay all the things down, like it's actually seems virtually

501
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: impossible for them a lot of times. But if they're

502
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: equating it to their love and value, I can see why,

503
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: you know, because they I think somewhere in their brain

504
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: a three's story might be something like, if I don't

505
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: do this, then I lose all my love in my life.

506
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: Right, it's so interesting. I just had a client earlier

507
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: that or I guess yesterday, and we were who was

508
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: a Type three, And you know, it was fascinating. She

509
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: was saying, you know, she has not she hasn't connected

510
00:32:54,600 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: to any type of passion of her own since high

511
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 3: school because it's like she was cut off from this

512
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 3: part of her that wanted to dream and be creative

513
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: and have passion because she just was such an achiever

514
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: and you know, coming from a family with high expectations,

515
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 3: high standards. It's like, you know, and this client is

516
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: not old, you know, but like for the past fifteen

517
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 3: years she has been living out of this drive to succeed, succeed,

518
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: succeed well as you can imagine. Speaking of fear, she's

519
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 3: really hitting this place of kind of panic because she

520
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 3: can't do that. You can't maintain that humanstainable meant, we're

521
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 3: not meant to maintain that. It's unsustainable. And so so

522
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: a lot of the work with Type threes is going

523
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: into that fear. But what is it what does it

524
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: feel like to just be here? Terrifying. For a three,

525
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: they are so identified by what they do. Being just

526
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 3: sitting here as a human being is really uncomfortable. But

527
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 3: it's going into that fear. It's just slowly creeping in

528
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 3: and saying I'm just gonna I'm gonna babystep this thing.

529
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna tiptoe in.

530
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that goes back to sort of

531
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 2: what we were saying at the beginning about when people

532
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: ask me, well, why would you even go do all

533
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 2: this stuff? Like it seems painful? It's like, you're fine whatever,

534
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 2: But are you first of all? And then second of all,

535
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: Like I think the question to always look at with

536
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 2: this fear driven stuff is, yes, you can still continue

537
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: to live with your fear driving you, but at what cost?

538
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: Like at what cost are we letting the fear drive

539
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: us by not facing it, by not sitting with ourselves,

540
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 2: Like what kind of quality of life do we feel

541
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: like we have? And is that worth it? Ultimately? Really,

542
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: on your death bat are you going to be like, gosh,

543
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: I'm really glad that I you know, Like, what's gonna matter?

544
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: I guess those are the kind of questions I've been

545
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 2: asking myself.

546
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I have this little crochete. It's this hilarious

547
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: little thing that's framed out in the kitchen area of

548
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: my private practice, and it says, deal with your ship,

549
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: or your ship will deal with you.

550
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: It's so true. Right, you can't run it. It's gonna

551
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 2: come up, right. We surely try, though we do.

552
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: And threes. It's hard for threes because they they literally

553
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: oftentimes they they're so good at what they do and

554
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: they look good doing it.

555
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: Yes, it's like.

556
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: It's so annoying, it's but it's it's like they are

557
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: those people that are on the beach, you know, with

558
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: their families on vacation, and they've got their laptops and

559
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 3: they've there are devices and they're taking call. You know,

560
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: just it's just an extension of who they are because

561
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 3: it's just been what it's been the water they swim

562
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 3: in for so long. Yeah, it's so hard to disconnect

563
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: and slow, slow down, and move closer to that fear

564
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 3: of what does it feel like to sit in this

565
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 3: moment and just.

566
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: Be probably who am I if I sit in this

567
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: moment and just be totally yeah, all right, I'm kind

568
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: of touched on fours a little bit. But is there

569
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: anything we've missed with the force.

570
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: You know. I think something that something that's really interesting

571
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 3: about the four story, this wounding kind of story, is

572
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 3: again this like early early kind of perceived experience of

573
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 3: loss of love. So there's just something that happened, Like

574
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 3: for me that was I was really little my grandmother.

575
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: I was so close to her. She was like in

576
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 3: the second mom she lived with us. We had this

577
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: just special bond. I was about four or five. She

578
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 3: had breast cancer and she died at fifty eight, and

579
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 3: nobody explained it to me. I just it's like one

580
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: day she was there and then we were like playing

581
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 3: with her wigs, and then the next day she wasn't there,

582
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: and so I just was I just felt like, oh

583
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 3: my gosh, there's such a loss here. This, this person,

584
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: this larger than life, beautiful person in my life is

585
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: no longer. And then that feeling of kind of introspection

586
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: that we do all the time asports is like, well,

587
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: maybe maybe I had something to do with this. So

588
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: there that's where this kind of this narrative of deficiency

589
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 3: comes into play, right, And so we do we spend

590
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 3: a ton of time. I'm trying to reverse this scenario

591
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: by showing up as really special and trying to find

592
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 3: that ideal person or relationship that will kind of repair

593
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 3: this broken union with love.

594
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: Yes, also I wonder if any other fours are like me.

595
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: But I am like I always want to if someone

596
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 2: tells me anything about myself, I'm like, huh is that true?

597
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: And I want to I like deep dive into every

598
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: facet of myself. You know. Like my friends kind of

599
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: have a joke about how much self work and introspection

600
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 2: and all of the stuff that I do. It's like

601
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: I find it fascinating, But I wonder how much of

602
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: it is like an internal drive of so I can

603
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: fix myself so that I can be loved, do you

604
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like that's just a real honest

605
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 2: like but well, and.

606
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 3: That's it's such a comfortable place for us to sit

607
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: those kind of difficult emotions to go. You know.

608
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, they don't scare me at all. Like

609
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: some people are like I never want to feel sad.

610
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh really, I don't really, it just is

611
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: I don't.

612
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, it was life beyond sadness. I completely identify

613
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 3: with that. It's it's always been such a such a

614
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: like fluid space for me to be in as a

615
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 3: client in therapy and as a therapist. It's like nothing

616
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 3: shocks me, you know, right right, So I resonate with that.

617
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's move to our fives.

618
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 3: So fives they fear being kind of useless and incompetent

619
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 3: and helpless. This drives a whole lot of their self sufficiency.

620
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: Fives are known as the investigator or the observer, and

621
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: they're they're just this type my husband's a and they

622
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 3: are more at home studying and learning about any type

623
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 3: of topic from the cosmos to technology, to the animal

624
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 3: kingdom to current events. I mean, they're just they just

625
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 3: kind of hoover up information and knowledge in order for

626
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 3: them to feel safe and self sufficient. And so a

627
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 3: lot of times I hear that type fives early on,

628
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: you know, had this experience of being neglected or either

629
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: engulfed by their caregivers that they really needed in order

630
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: to survive, and so they just kind of in order

631
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 3: to get by, they they did what they could with

632
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 3: the little they had, right they become they became incredibly

633
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 3: self sufficient, and that kind of drives a whole lot

634
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 3: of their The stinginess that people experience with type fives,

635
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: sometimes emotionally even materialistically, and you know, it also explains

636
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 3: why type fives are often some of the most emotionally

637
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 3: cut off people from themselves and from other people in relationships.

638
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 3: So again, they're trying to avoid the fear of kind

639
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 3: of being helpless, like they have felt early on.

640
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 2: If they have all the information themselves, then they can

641
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: remain self sufficient and not rely on anyone else.

642
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: That's it, okay, if they have all the information all

643
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: you know, it's so funny. My husband, I joke with

644
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 3: them all the time. He has like a backup of

645
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 3: every single thing that we own in the house, like

646
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 3: he has. It's because if we lose power, we got

647
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 3: to have not just one generator, but two. You know,

648
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: It's like that.

649
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: So he's always prepared.

650
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 3: He's always prepared. A lot of six going on there.

651
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 3: But there's just this kind of driving fear of I

652
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 3: really cannot count on anybody but myself. And that's why

653
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn everything. Fives can spend more

654
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 3: time alone than any other type, even more than you

655
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 3: and I as fours. Uh. They need they need so

656
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: much privacy and solitude, and as a result, they end

657
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 3: up being these incredible innovators, right, they come up with

658
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 3: just incredible inventions, Bill Gates, Stephen Hawking, like Mark Zuckerberg,

659
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 3: all these types of people who have contributed so much

660
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: to our culture through science and technology and all the things,

661
00:42:53,080 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: but fascinating people. And fear is you know, and five,

662
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: sixes and sevens kind of they live in the fear

663
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 3: triad or the head triad. So fear is even more

664
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: of a very prominent part of their kind of defensive structure.

665
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 2: That is interesting because I didn't know the head translated

666
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: to more fear based. That makes total sense because and

667
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: we'll move on to six with this statement, but like

668
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: six is are known to be the most fear driven

669
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 2: number of all of them. Right, So the five, six

670
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 2: and seven they operate from their head. And so that's

671
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: just like what over analyzing things like that.

672
00:43:52,080 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: Planning, analyzing, yes, you know, strategy, all of these kind

673
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: of faculties that this the analytical mind is so experienced

674
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 3: and kind of with and so that is their dominant

675
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 3: intelligence center. Whereas for you and me as four as

676
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 3: two threes and four is really we operate out of

677
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 3: our heart, intelligence, our feelings. It's kind of it's by

678
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 3: some people call the shame triad. I think it's sadness

679
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: and grief that really kind of is the dominant emotion,

680
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 3: the go to emotion, and then for eights, nines, and ones,

681
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 3: it's anger. So that's kind of that anger triad. That

682
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 3: makes sense because it's the body triad. Right. So anyway,

683
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: not to derail us, but yes, so sixes are kind

684
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 3: of at the core, they're kind of the prototypical fear

685
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: type of all types. And listen, I believe that we

686
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 3: are still around as a species because of Type sixes. Okay,

687
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 3: you know, like they have been the ones, you know,

688
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 3: if you think about kind of this herd mentality, they

689
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 3: have been the people drive in the pack. They are

690
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 3: always on the lookout for any type of danger. Their

691
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: their fear. Their fear is a being without support and guidance. Okay, right,

692
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: and so they're always always looking to solve problems. But

693
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 3: what happens for type sixes is that they also as

694
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: good problem solvers, they become problem seekers.

695
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 2: I love that the way you just said that, because

696
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of the sixes in my life and I'm like,

697
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 2: but don't they create problems too? Because I'm literally talking

698
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: to them sometimes and I'm like, this isn't a problem.

699
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 2: What are you what? They're like pre thinking a problem

700
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: that's not even there yet.

701
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, totally and as little people, six is really

702
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 3: describe being in kind of ongoing threatening situations. So a

703
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 3: great example is like having an alcoholic parent, Yeah, and

704
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 3: not having like I mean literally having such an anxious attachment.

705
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: You know, you're like, I don't know, I don't know

706
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 3: what's going to happen when this person comes home, and

707
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: you know so so of course there's a lot of

708
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 3: pain around that. So you know, six is are just

709
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: constantly looking depending on subtype. Subtypes for sixes are very

710
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 3: very glaringly different as they are kind of with fours.

711
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 3: But you know, they're they're looking to create as much

712
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 3: safety for themselves, to have guidance, to have safety and security,

713
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: and they do that. If they're kind of the phobic

714
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: kind of classic sixes, they go, they go, they run

715
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 3: away from the fear and the counterphobic, which is the

716
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 3: sexual six or the one to one six, they kind

717
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: of go against the fear in order to feel safe

718
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 3: and secure.

719
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: What do you mean against it?

720
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: So if you think about fight or flight, Yeah, the

721
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 3: fight mechanism is a byproduct of that fear. Right, the

722
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 3: fear is signaling and we can either fight or we

723
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: can run like hell in the other day. Yeah, So

724
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 3: the kind of the one to one six is they

725
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 3: are very much going against that fear. They're not afraid

726
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 3: to fight it, but the fear is still there. The

727
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 3: social and the self pres sixes are more in the

728
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 3: kind of flee and freeze, so they kind of look

729
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 3: more like classic sixes.

730
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just experienced a lot of hypervigilance with my

731
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 2: friends that are sixes. So what like just I'm thinking

732
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 2: specifically of two of my friends and I want to

733
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: be able to give them positive like insight into this.

734
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 2: But what would be a way for a six to

735
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: lay down some of the spear because it's so much

736
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: a part of their personality.

737
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think a couple things. I

738
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 3: think having a spiritual practice of some type, developing kind

739
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:33,959
Speaker 3: of this inner security, knowing that there is something out

740
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: in the world that's bigger and better than me that

741
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: is calling the shots, whatever that higher power is. I

742
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 3: think developing some type of faith practice, some type of

743
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 3: spiritual practice that can really support them in their fear

744
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 3: necessarily numb the fear. But I also think for for

745
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 3: six is, I do think what you're doing getting into

746
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 3: the body, Yeah, because a lot of times, you know, fear,

747
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 3: our bodies hold more memory than our thinking minds.

748
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: You know, my thinking mind have been over all the

749
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 2: stuff that I'm talking about for a while, right, but

750
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: my body can't get over it, and so then it

751
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 2: brings it back to surface in my mind and I

752
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: can like logically go, oh no, that's not true, that's

753
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: not true. But until your body believes it, the fear

754
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: is still there and it's still driving so much of

755
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: your life.

756
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: Totally think. I think doing some type of body work

757
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 3: or somatic practice is huge, even just movement getting out

758
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 3: of the head into the body, Like there's just I

759
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 3: mean a lot of us do from time to time

760
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: just live from the neck up and so really accessing

761
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 3: the present moment. You know, we can't be anywhere else

762
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 3: but here if we're really in our bodies. Sure, and

763
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 3: so I think that's huge. I think too. I Mean

764
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 3: this sounds kind of simplistic, but I really think Type

765
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 3: sixes do really well with some type of gratitude practice

766
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 3: kind of I like to I like to tell my

767
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 3: type six clients. You know, if you're gonna go to

768
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 3: worst case scenario, do me a favor and also go

769
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: to best case scenario. Just balance it out a little bit.

770
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, write down all the bad things, but then write

771
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 2: down the good things too.

772
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that.

773
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: All right, let's go to seven enthusiast sevens.

774
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, sevens. You would not really think of as being fearful.

775
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 2: No, not at all. I don't know, it's want to

776
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 2: have fun.

777
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: I know, they're just so bubbly and just magnetic and exuberant,

778
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 3: and and they are that way because they're so afraid

779
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 3: of being trapped or in pain. Okay, so they've had

780
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: to become that way, you know. I think young sevens

781
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 3: often describe a really difficult relationship with one parental figure

782
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 3: who is really dominating, really overbearing, really stern. A lot

783
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 3: of times this was this is the maternal parent, this

784
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 3: is the mother figure, And so they kind of have

785
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 3: this belief that this authority, this this just dominating presence

786
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 3: of authority limits them, takes certain choices away, and so

787
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 3: they they believe that kind of authority equals limitation. So

788
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 3: what do they do. They kind of keep things really

789
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 3: up and open growing up. They they try to have

790
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 3: no limitations. They try to as many choices as possible,

791
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: lots of options, right, Yeah, it's funny. It's kind of

792
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,919
Speaker 3: why I wait to teach type seven till the very

793
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 3: end of any kind of like enneagram class or talk

794
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 3: I give, because sevens it's hard for them to sit

795
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: still and listen to all the other types. They're like, Okay,

796
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 3: we just did my type, let's go get brunch or

797
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 3: let's people do next, and so they just again, they

798
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 3: just have the fear that's driving them is they don't

799
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 3: want to feel trapped. They don't want to they you know,

800
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 3: it's the need to avoid pain. And so that's that's

801
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,879
Speaker 3: what sevens do. And I think the thing that kind

802
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 3: of that, you know, the passion of type seven is gluttony, right,

803
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 3: and so it's not necessarily about food, but it's just

804
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 3: it's like more is better, like more options, more this,

805
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: more that. And so really part of the work is

806
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 3: kind of reeling it in a little bit and learning

807
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 3: how to sit in the present moment with whatever comes

808
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 3: up up and not try to reframe or not try

809
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 3: to find the silver lining, but to just sit really

810
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 3: literally to sit with the spear, of being trapped, of

811
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 3: being without options, of being in pain.

812
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: But see, okay, so if I'm a seven from what

813
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: you just described, I'd be like and why would I

814
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 2: want to do that? Like what? So why would a seven?

815
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: How would it be manifesting in their life that if

816
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 2: they were just operating from this sphere and not ever

817
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: sitting like you're talking about, Like, what are some ways

818
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 2: that we would see examples of this playing out in

819
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: a seven's life.

820
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: They become unhinged.

821
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 2: Meaning a Britney Spears shaver head moment or.

822
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 3: Yeah right, maybe that's great. They they go off the rails, Okay,

823
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 3: they they don't They can't commit in relationships, they can't

824
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 3: finish a project at work, don't like anyone to expect

825
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 3: anything from them. Yeah, they you know, run through their

826
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 3: inheritance money, you know, they they whatever the thing is,

827
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 3: you know, they just it's like go big or go home. Yeah,

828
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 3: at some point the party's got to stop. You know

829
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 3: a lot of times, you know this, the invitation for

830
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 3: sevens is sobriety. Not that you know, sevens are all

831
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 3: dealing with addiction necessarily, but that is a big way

832
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 3: that it does manifest I was.

833
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: Just thinking that as you're describing it, because yeah, you

834
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: just want to run. If you want to run from pain,

835
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 2: you've got to find ways to do that. So I

836
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 2: would imagine addiction is a big part of sevens.

837
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 3: And they go so fast. I think that's the difference

838
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 3: between sevens and nine because nines want to avoid two

839
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 3: sevens really like they are their energy is so up

840
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 3: have there, it's so high. But you know, I think

841
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 3: too it's like a lot of I would say, really

842
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 3: famous people that are have been type sevens, you know,

843
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 3: somebody like Robin Williams. It's kind of the ultimate death

844
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 3: right when you you go so hard and you become

845
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 3: so disconnected from the truth of who you are but

846
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 3: making everybody laugh and deep, deep, deep depression that's happening

847
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 3: inside that just becomes I mean you literally become you're

848
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 3: living out of two kind of two different lives and

849
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 3: they're just too polar, right, So I mean, I think

850
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 3: I think that you know, sevens oftentimes, you know, will

851
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 3: have failed marriages, they'll have you know, job loss, they'll

852
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: have you know, problems with substance, they'll you know, just

853
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 3: kind of have this kind of trail of flakiness like

854
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 3: flaky behavior and relationships. And you know, after so much

855
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 3: of that, you've got to kind of like bring bring

856
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 3: the mirror front and center and kind of look at

857
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 3: look at those blind spots that are really driving the show.

858
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 2: If you want a fulfilling life, probably yeah, and see,

859
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: like you know that Jim Carrey moment in Dumb and

860
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 2: Dummer where he's got his hands in his ears and

861
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: he's like a la la la la la, like I

862
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 2: don't want to listen. That's what I imagine a seven would

863
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: be doing right now.

864
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think, you know, one of my

865
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 3: best friends is the seven, and she is she's so's

866
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 3: it's so cool because she's so I'm so proud of her.

867
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 3: She's doing like all of these really she's done so

868
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 3: much deep work throughout the years. She's a teacher of mine,

869
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 3: spiritual teacher and other other realms too. But you know

870
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 3: she's really like moving to that five point of going

871
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 3: into this place of studying this really cool new program

872
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 3: that she's doing getting a master's and like she's just

873
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 3: going in there and doing the sitting and you know,

874
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 3: she's got a big, big heavy load and she's you know,

875
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 3: I think like a typical like a seven who has

876
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: not done their work would just be like dip in

877
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 3: and out of that because you know, it's too demanding.

878
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 3: But it's just such a picture of somebody who you know,

879
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 3: is such an evolved Type seven and can really like

880
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 3: sit in the weeds of yeah and hammered out.

881
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about eights, because I find this one

882
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 2: to be a really fascinating number to talk about fear

883
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: with because what an eight, in my interpretation of an

884
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: eight and eight would not want you to know they're

885
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 2: scared of anything?

886
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, true? Yeah, so true. I mean, I think

887
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 3: one of the words that people really kind of often

888
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 3: used to describe eights is fearless. They just show up

889
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 3: in the world like that. They but they do. They

890
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 3: do fear being weak, They fear being controlled by other people,

891
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 3: you know, and a lot of kind of a lot

892
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 3: of eights describe their early childhood having some type of

893
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 3: like combative relationship or conflict where they had to grow

894
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 3: up super super young. I have a client who is

895
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 3: a Type eight, and she, you know, she remembers being

896
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 3: like seven and that and her mom was kind of

897
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 3: checked out and they had she had a cousin that

898
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 3: came to live with her who was like special needs

899
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 3: or just really rambunctious and behaviorally a challenge. And so

900
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 3: my client remembers like and the mom couldn't handle it.

901
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 3: The mom was like, it's too much, I can't peace out,

902
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: you know. So she remembers when she was like seven

903
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 3: or eight making peanut butter and belly sandwiches for she

904
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 3: and her cousin to go to school with, and she

905
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 3: couldn't even see over the countertop. Wow. So here she

906
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 3: is feeling filling in this kind of role as mom,

907
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 3: as parent way before she needed to. And that's that

908
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 3: is that is that's a story that I hear in

909
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 3: different kind of you know, different flavors across the ord

910
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 3: with eights. You know, they had to grow up way

911
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 3: too young in order to survive, so of course they

912
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 3: have to disconnect with vulnerability. They have to disconnect from

913
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:59,959
Speaker 3: that childhood innocence because that would render them weak, right,

914
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 3: and they got to be in control, you know, And

915
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 3: it's not that actually, let me let me walk that

916
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 3: one back. They don't have to be in control all

917
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 3: the time. They just they just don't want you to

918
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 3: control them, if that makes sense, like, they don't always

919
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 3: have to be the one in control. They don't always

920
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 3: have to be the controlling you. Okay, they just don't

921
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 3: want to be controlled.

922
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 2: So as long as it's not impacting them in any

923
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 2: way or affecting them in any way, they don't really care.

924
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 3: It's not kind of cornering them. And again this is

925
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 3: we're talking kind of average levels of health for each

926
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 3: of these, right, so in an average kind of space,

927
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 3: you know, type eights do not want they just don't

928
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 3: want to be controlled. They're not trying to control you necessarily.

929
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 3: Maybe sometimes they are, but they just don't want to

930
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 3: be controlled.

931
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 2: All the aids that I know are highly capable, So

932
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 2: that makes sense of like the growing up too fast,

933
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 2: and so they had to, like maybe I'm assuming, rely

934
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 2: on themselves a lot and also become very capable in

935
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: taking care of them and then other people. And the

936
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 2: biggest struggle with my aides in my life has been

937
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 2: this fear of vulnerability or appearing weak in any capacity.

938
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 2: And like you mentioned earlier, their fear though doesn't manifest

939
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: in like a same way as a six, where they're

940
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: hyper vigilant and worrying. But when I see an eight

941
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 2: sphere kick in a lot of times to me, it

942
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: comes out as anger and just like attack.

943
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's impulsive, mm hmmm, instinctual. It's that. It's it's

944
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 3: that kind of like they have they you know, because

945
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 3: their body types and they kind of overdo impact, they

946
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 3: overdo their anger. They tend to kind of move into

947
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 3: action without even thinking about the fear it's there. Yet

948
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,439
Speaker 3: they're not sitting They're not a head type that's sitting

949
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 3: there thinking about planning and strategizing to avoid the fear.

950
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 3: They're just going against it.

951
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: Right. My mom is an eight, and she always says

952
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: that eights are instead of ready aim fire, they're fire

953
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 2: ready aim, like they think about it in a different way,

954
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 2: you know, Like, and that's been my experience is that

955
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: if an eight is triggered, they go into attack mode

956
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 2: without really thinking about all of the other things or

957
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 2: even like, hey, maybe this is fear driving me or

958
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 2: not reality, you know, like if it feels real to them,

959
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 2: if the threat is real, they are reacting unless they

960
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 2: get to a healthier place. But yes, it seems to

961
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 2: be the case.

962
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 3: Well, and a lot of people, you know, think of

963
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 3: type eight's as protectors. So if it's not self protection,

964
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 3: it's others protection. So there's a lot. I mean, I

965
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 3: think eights are just fierce protectors. Yeah, so if there

966
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 3: is injustice or something happening, like they are, they are

967
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 3: on the front lines. Just like your mom said, you know,

968
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 3: it's they're there. They're they're they're they're they're already there.

969
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 3: You know, they're not sitting back there trying to figure

970
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 3: out the best plan of attack. They're just already there.

971
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 3: And yeah, like you said, they're they have more energy

972
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 3: than any other type.

973
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

974
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 3: They're tireless people, but you know, you can only run

975
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 3: from vulnerability.

976
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 2: So long like that was, I was just gonna ask

977
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 2: that question because when you said they're they have the

978
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: most energy, the immediate thought that I had was again,

979
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 2: I'm talking about my mom, who she is a very

980
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 2: She's done a lot of work on herself, so we're

981
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 2: we're able to talk about kind of these things because

982
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 2: as a four and an eight, she and I. But

983
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 2: it has a lot with me growing up because we're

984
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 2: so different and the fours, we are such feelers, right

985
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 2: like I can get into every emotion and I can

986
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,439
Speaker 2: feel it really deeply, and an eight kind of might

987
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: struggle there. And then my mom when she retired, was

988
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 2: kind of just facing like that life change thing. There

989
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 2: was a lot of grief. She's been in her position

990
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 2: a long time, all the people she was leaving, and

991
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 2: she said to me, oh my gosh, I am so

992
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 2: exhausted after this week of like going through these retirement

993
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 2: celebrations and all this sudden She was like, is this

994
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 2: what you feel like all the time? And I thought, yes,

995
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 2: that is it, because I'm carrying not only like my feelings,

996
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 2: but others feelings, you know as well. But I'd wondered

997
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 2: how much of an eight's energy is because they're shut

998
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 2: off from their vulnerability.

999
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good that's a good question. I love

1000
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 3: that story. I think their energy a lot of times comes.

1001
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I think too there they're the doers of

1002
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 3: the enneagram. Their body tached, right, A lot of this

1003
01:04:55,880 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 3: is kind of almost like wiring. It's their makeup. But

1004
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 3: they you know, they had to move into action from

1005
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 3: such an early age, so their tolerance is a little

1006
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 3: bit bigger than the rest. Yeah, and they're used to

1007
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 3: such a high level of you know, because it's it's

1008
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 3: all about impact, it's all about kind of challenging the system.

1009
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 3: That takes a lot of strength, that takes a lot

1010
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 3: of effort. Uh. And you know, for whatever reason, I

1011
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 3: do believe that there's something to that. As a body type,

1012
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 3: they are just their energy is is relentless. Yeah, and

1013
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 3: I think I think that's a great point, you know,

1014
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 3: not going into deep emotions of sadness and fear and

1015
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 3: shame and go. I mean that that does free up

1016
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 3: a hell of a lot of energy to go to things,

1017
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 3: I mean, to your pot.

1018
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, an interesting thought. All right, let's about this up

1019
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 2: and talk about our nines, the Peacemakers.

1020
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 3: So nines. Nines are a lot like two's in many ways,

1021
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 3: but definitely in their fear. It's it's all about this

1022
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 3: loss of connection. It's a fear of loss that would

1023
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 3: kind of manifest in disconnection and relationship. They had this early,

1024
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 3: interestingly enough, this early experience where their opinions didn't matter,

1025
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 3: they weren't heard, and so perhaps there were siblings who

1026
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 3: were a lot louder, or more opinionated, or more fiery,

1027
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 3: and and so you know, they learned to regulate and

1028
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 3: to keep calm. They had to go along with what

1029
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 3: everybody else wanted to do. In order, and that was

1030
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 3: kind of their survival because they're mo, it's all about like,

1031
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 3: let's keep the peace right peace, and there's not peace

1032
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 3: around me. So in order to have peace, to order

1033
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 3: to be connected in relationship, I have got to keep

1034
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 3: the peace. And so I am going to deny myself

1035
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 3: my own agenda and just merge with the agenda of

1036
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 3: other people. And that you know, that fear of loss

1037
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 3: and disconnection is really kind of manifests in There's this

1038
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 3: word indolence. It's kind of the fixation of type nines,

1039
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 3: and it basically it's just kind of like, oh I'm fine,

1040
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's good, We're good, life is good. You know,

1041
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,439
Speaker 3: Oh we don't, we don't. We don't really need to

1042
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 3: to talk about that. It's it's, you know, let's just

1043
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 3: you know, kind of the self depth ricading energy that

1044
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 3: kind of downplays everything and.

1045
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 2: We're even in touch with what they're feeling or are

1046
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 2: they just trying to get out of that? Like does

1047
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 2: that make sense?

1048
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 3: No emotions? You know, the fear. The fear is driving

1049
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 3: the show of you know this, the fear of loss

1050
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 3: or disconnection, it shows up in the passion. It kind

1051
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 3: of it's it manifests in this pattern of laziness. And

1052
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 3: it's not necessarily physical laziness, but it is you know,

1053
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 3: when energy, when the energy is on everybody else and

1054
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,600
Speaker 3: the house and the dog and the you know the

1055
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 3: schedule and you know the trip, they are full throttle.

1056
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 3: But the energy and the focus when the focus of

1057
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 3: a contention comes back to the nine, when they are

1058
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 3: the focus of attention, their energy is way down. That's

1059
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 3: where some of that laziness comes in. It's it's and

1060
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 3: you know, they grow up with this belief that, you know,

1061
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 3: their presence doesn't matter. Everyone else's presence is is louder,

1062
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 3: you know. It's like so sometimes they have a lot

1063
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 3: of trouble kind of finding their own voice because if

1064
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 3: they were to voice their own opinion or have a

1065
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 3: strong opinion, that might that might result in disconnection and relationship.

1066
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: So that's their main fear is being disconnected in the relationship.

1067
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 2: So they will just almost become not a human in

1068
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 2: the way of like their's feelings and opinions and all

1069
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 2: the things, just to keep the peace so that they

1070
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 2: can stay in the relationship.

1071
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, a lot of type nines I see stay

1072
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 3: in long term relationships way past the expiration date. Yeah,

1073
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 3: they're so afraid that they're going to hurt the other person.

1074
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 2: So what for Type nines, Like, what tips would you

1075
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 2: have with this stuff? Because the nines that I know,

1076
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,719
Speaker 2: I find it it's almost crippling to them to step

1077
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 2: outside of the sphere and they just don't want to

1078
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 2: at all.

1079
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, doing self work is really important for type nines, Okay,

1080
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 3: bringing the focus of energy.

1081
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 2: Oh, because then they have to look at themselves, right.

1082
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 3: And it's you know, there are some nines that it's hard.

1083
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 3: It's it's a it's a long road in therapy because

1084
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 3: you have to acclimate them to their kind of interior space. Right.

1085
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 3: It's because their energy is just like merging all over

1086
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 3: the place with the people. Yeah, really connecting them to

1087
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:02,759
Speaker 3: what do they need?

1088
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1089
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 3: What do they want? You know? Sometimes the hardest question

1090
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 3: for Type nine is how are you? You know, it's

1091
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 3: because it's like, oh hm, I think I'm okay. You know,

1092
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 3: they're just their focus is on on on others all

1093
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 3: the time, and so I think, yeah, yeah, I'll go ahead.

1094
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 3: Well I was just thinking, you know again, it's bringing

1095
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 3: it's bringing the focus of attention back to themselves. You know,

1096
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 3: and it's taking action. I think you know that for

1097
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:43,759
Speaker 3: a type nine. Uh, it doesn't have to be massive action,

1098
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 3: but it has to be some type of small action

1099
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 3: in the right direction. Otherwise they just kind of numb

1100
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 3: out in order to just because they fall asleep to

1101
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 3: their own agenda. Yeah, it's all about other people's agendas.

1102
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 3: So you know, like I always let my type nine

1103
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 3: friends pick the place that we're going to go eat dinner,

1104
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,679
Speaker 3: you know, because otherwise they'd just be like, Oh, whatever's fine,

1105
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 3: I'm good with whatever. No, really, no, it's your Yeah,

1106
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 3: like you pick the place we're doing this. You know.

1107
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 3: That can be really hard, but it could be a

1108
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 3: good exercise for type nines.

1109
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 2: Oh isn't it true about type nines that they miss

1110
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 2: type pretty often? Like for I've known nines to be

1111
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 2: like the one who has tested as multiple different types

1112
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 2: and then someone's finally like, no, you're a nine totally.

1113
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 2: But nines are so out of touch with themselves, maybe

1114
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,759
Speaker 2: in their own feelings, that that makes sense.

1115
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point. I think that's I think

1116
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 3: that's pretty true. I mean, I see so many people

1117
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 3: mistyped walking around mistyped because they've just taken a free

1118
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 3: test online, they haven't done the cell work to really

1119
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 3: verify it for themselves, and so I see so many

1120
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 3: people mistyped anyway, But definitely minds because it's you know,

1121
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 3: they just and too because they're very open, kind of

1122
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 3: curious people like they're like, yeah, it could be true,

1123
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 3: and that could be true. Like they kind of like

1124
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 3: they're also called the mediators, so they can they can

1125
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 3: see all the sides. Yeah, so sometimes it can take

1126
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:34,719
Speaker 3: them a little bit longer to really know their definitive type.

1127
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 2: I think you're right, Well, this is fascinating to me.

1128
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 2: So if you guys have any more questions about the

1129
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 2: core fears, Katie, where is a good place for people

1130
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 2: to reach out to you?

1131
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:54,919
Speaker 3: A good place is my website probably Katie Gustafsen dot co. Uh.

1132
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 3: Probably Instagram is where I interact the most in terms

1133
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 3: of social media. Yeah, be bad at all the others,

1134
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 3: but consistent on Instagram. And then I have an online

1135
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 3: membership platform called The Practice, and it is an Enneagram

1136
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 3: based self care toolkit that is all about helping you

1137
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,599
Speaker 3: learn more about yourself, have more compassion for yourself, and

1138
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 3: put the Niagram into practice through really specific self care

1139
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 3: practices for your type.

1140
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 2: I love that. I will put all that info in

1141
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 2: the description of this podcast for you guys. Go check

1142
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 2: out Katie's page Instagram, The Practice all of the things, Katie.

1143
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 2: Thank you for being here with us today.

1144
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 3: Thank you friends, This has been fun. You know, I

1145
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 3: could talk about this forever.

1146
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: And I meet See. We're such anagram nerds, aren't we.

1147
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 2: Thank you guys for listening.

1148
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

1149
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a

1150
01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty relationships.

1151
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 1: Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.