WEBVTT - Transgender Rule Vacated & Special Counsel Report Release 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:08.360 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:10.400 Jill and I Kamlin Doug. 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:14.640 The entire administration doing everything we can to advance equality 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.520 for the LGBTQ community in our nation. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:22.960 The entire nation. The Biden administration made LGBTQ rights an 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:27.040 important part of its agenda, including a Title nine regulation 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:32.599 protecting transgender students that was touted by administration officials as 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:37.239 a signature achievement. But President elect Donald Trump has promised 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.360 to undo protections for transgender students with a. 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.800 Stroke of my pen on day one. We're going to 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:53.400 stop the transgender lunacy, and I will sign executive orders 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.560 to end child sexual mutilation, get transgender out of the 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.880 military and out of our elementary schools and middle schools, 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.400 in high schools well. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.440 A federal judge in Kentucky has beaten Trump to the punch, 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:14.800 striking down the Biden aministration rule barring discrimination based on 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:20.800 sexual orientation and gender identity in federally funded schools. Judge 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:26.039 Danny Reeves scrapped the entire fifteen hundred page regulation after 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.640 deciding it was fatally tainted by legal shortcomings. Joining me 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.319 is Samantha hunt a lawyer and equal Justice work fellow 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.919 at a better balance. Samantha tell us about this Title 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.600 nine regulation that the Biden administration put in place. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.320 So I think to understand that question, it's important to 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.080 know what Title nine is. So Title nine is a 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:53.600 federal law that protects students from discrimination on the basis 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:58.520 of sex, including discrimination that students face at school because 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.360 they are pregnant. And since the original passage of Title 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.920 nine in nineteen seventy two, discrimination on the basis of 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.040 things like pregnancy, childbirth, rental status have been included in 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.200 the scope of the statute. So what the twenty twenty 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:17.760 four Biden regulations do is that since the Department of 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:22.720 Education is a federal administrative agency, this means that the 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.200 agency often can issue regulations called rules to interpret the 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.800 meaning of Title nine, and that just means that the 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.840 agency explains what it believes the scope of Title nine 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.799 is and the protections that it offers. So these regulations 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:42.519 alert recipients of federal funding, in this case, schools, about 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.760 what their obligations to students are under the law. The 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:51.280 Biden regulations clarified protections for students across the country, including 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.760 for pregnant students, for student survivors of sexual assaults, and 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:02.800 for LGBTQIA students by explicitly defining Title nine scope of protections. So, 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:08.799 for example, the regulations clarified what kinds of modifications that 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.120 pregnant students can access so that they can learn while 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:16.880 caring for their pregnancies. These regulations are really important. We 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.440 at a better balance run a free legal helpline and 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.359 we often hear from student callers we're facing issues getting 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.240 really modest accommodations that they need so that they can 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.960 learn while caring for their pregnancies. And what these regulations 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.440 did was it made it more explicitly known what schools 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:40.560 are required to offer them. So, for example, the regulations 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.840 make it a lot easier for students who give birth 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.880 to request the scheduled exams if they miss one while 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.760 they're out recovering from childbirths. And these regulations essentially make 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.400 it easier for students to get access to protections that 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:56.960 Title nine has always been meant to cover. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:02.840 With the controversy over transgender rights that's blown up, what 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.800 does it do as far as transgender students. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.400 That's a great question. So a lot of this case 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:15.160 focuses on the concept of gender identity. And what the 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.560 regulations really do here is it clarifies that the protection 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:24.880 against discrimination and harassment on the basis of sex includes 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:30.520 on the basis of sex, stereotypes, sexual orientation, and gender identity. 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.160 So what it really does is it just makes explicit 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.280 for the first time that students like transgender students have 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:44.359 these protections. Now, we have always argued that transgender students 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.880 are protected under Title nin but what the Biden administration 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.680 did with these regulations is made it explicit. And so 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.919 by doing that, making it easier for students to assert 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.280 their rights and get the protections they deserve. 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:03.680 So now a federal judge in Kentucky has vacated the rules. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.160 He said that the rules turned Title nine on its head, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.719 and he did this on several grounds, so let's take 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.120 them one at a time. He said, there's nothing in 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:16.720 the text or statutory design of Title nine to suggest 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:21.279 that discrimination on the basis of sex means anything other 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.560 than it has since Title line's inception. Tell us about 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.560 his reasoning there, and whether you think it's wrong or right. 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:28.839 So the court. 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:33.400 Held that the Department exceeded its authority by interpreting on 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.239 the basis of sex to include gender identity. The Court 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.360 believes that on the basis of sex really narrowly means 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.040 that schools receiving federal funding may not treat a person 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.960 worse than another similarly situated individual on the basis of 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.080 a person sex signed at birth, which in the Court's 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:55.880 view means strictly sis gender male or female. We think 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.840 the Court got a lot wrong here. We disagree with 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.799 the Court that bias stemming from a student's gender identity 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.239 is not a form of sex discrimination. It very clearly is, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.240 because bias based on how a person identifies or expresses 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.760 their gender, or on the sex or gender of who 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.359 someone loves is inherently rooted in stereotypes and assumptions about 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:20.680 sex based roles. 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.640 He also shot down arguments that the federal government made 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.800 that the Supreme Court's decision in the Boss Stoc Case, 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.719 which protects employees against discrimination because of sexual orientation or 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:39.279 gender identity, that that applies to Title nine here right. 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.560 And we disagree with the Court in holding that Bostov 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.440 versus Clayton County is not comparable in its application to 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.640 Title nine. So in Bosstoc. The Supreme Court addressed a 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.679 nearly identical question as the one in this case, holding 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:59.400 that sex discrimination under another federal law, Title seven includes 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:04.240 by death definition discrimination because of an employee's sexual orientation 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.440 or gender identity. We think that this decision is on 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.480 the wrong side of history in that regard, and we 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.480 also think it is a break from precedent, because the 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.360 Supreme Court has held that bostoc has always included gender identity. 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.720 Another ground is that the Education Department exceeded its authority, 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:29.560 and here he cites that decision last term in Low 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:34.720 or Bright, which limited the regulatory power of federal agencies. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.400 So the Court did hold that this apartment exceeded its 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.400 authority by interpreting on the basis of sects to include 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:47.880 gender identity. Once again, we disagree. Even absence the force 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:52.280 of law that Chevron previously gave to rules, we believe 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.960 that courts have held over time that gender identity is 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.680 included within the scope of Title nin and that's evidenced 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.480 by the fact that a very similar question was answered 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.160 in Bostock. And so the Court is really breaking with 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.520 precedent here by holding that the government exceeded its statutory 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.040 authority to interpret its own regulations. 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.480 And there was even a free speech ground. He rejected 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.640 the rule on free speech grounds that it violated teachers' 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.920 rights by requiring them to use students' preferred pronouns. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.920 So, yes, the court held that the regulations are violative 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.200 of the Constitution a couple of ways, And one is 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:38.040 that argument that requiring schools to protect students against discrimination 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.400 based on general identity might in some case lead to 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:47.119 a student accusing a teacher who uses their wrong pronouns 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.000 of sexual harassment. And we think that that's just not 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:57.440 true because to investigate sexual harassment, the Biden administration's regulations 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.600 still requires a conduct be severe or persuasive and to 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:06.000 limit the student's access to their education. So we think 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.800 that that argument doesn't really have any basis here. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:14.040 Changes only took place in twenty four states because the 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.400 rest of the country judges had put the rules on hold. 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:20.800 I mean, it's a short period of time. But did 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:25.559 you see any significant difference because of these new rules. 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:30.000 The answer to that is yes. And that's another piece 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.559 that we think the district court got wrong here. They 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:37.800 said that this isn't going to disrupt students in their 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.959 educations because in part half the states had already issued 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.439 injunctions regarding the regulation, and we see that simply not true. 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.480 A better balance runs a free legal helpline and we 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.960 get students to call into the helpline looking for access 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.960 to modification so that they can care for their pregnancies 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.960 while also learning and not being excluded from their academic programs. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.600 And we have found that absent the clarity that the 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:11.640 Biden regulations provide about what kinds of modifications pregnant students 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:16.000 can ask for, it becomes a much larger fight for 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.319 students to get what we believe the law has always 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:20.160 afforded them. 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:21.920 So the stakes are. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.280 Really high for students who need access to clarified protections 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.360 to make it easier for them to get what they 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.440 need from the law. And we've been doing this work 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.360 since before August first, when the Biden regulations went into place, 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.480 and we've seen time and time again that absent that 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.200 explicit clarity, students face huge battles before they get what 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:41.680 they need. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.720 Where does it stand? Because the US Court of Appeals 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:49.160 for the Sixth Circuit heard arguments in October on this judge. 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.720 Judge reeves preliminary injunction, but it has yet to rule, 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.319 so where does this particular case stand right now? 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.719 So I think what we would hope to see is 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:06.320 an appeal from the federal government challenging this decision and 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.840 either asking for a reversal or at least asking to 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:15.200 narrow the decision in scope. We think that a nationwide 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.520 vacator is really dangerously overbroad, so we would hope that 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.600 the federal government would see it has an interest in 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:27.920 protecting itself against national vacators, and we hope to see 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:32.440 some sort of appeal, either for a reversal or for 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.360 a limitation in either geographical or subject matterscope. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:42.160 President elect Trump has promised to undo the regulations protecting 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.160 transgender students, so will that put a stop to this 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:51.480 whole effort. I doubt that Trump administration is going to appeal. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:56.800 This judge is ruling, and the Biden administration doesn't have 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.120 time to appeal it, does it. 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.160 That's a great question, and I think it's hard to 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.240 say what exactly will happen. You know, we'd of course 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.240 like to see the federal government appeal the decision, at 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.040 least for the scope of the vacator. Like I mentioned, 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.760 a nationwide vacator is a dangerously overbroad decision and a 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.200 break from precedent, and I would think that any federal 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.720 government administration would have an interest in opposing that kind 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:26.439 of nationwide vacator from individual federal district court. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.600 Let's say the Trump administration unravels the regulations. Is it 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:35.000 possible for students who are affected by that to sue? Oh? 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.439 Right now, it's hard to say what would happen because 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:43.120 at this point, since the regulations have been vacated, it's 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.680 like they did not exist, and so there's not much 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.760 unraveling to be done at this point by the Trump administration. 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.320 I think what would happen, or what we would hope 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.360 to see happen, is that there would be some sort 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.800 of appeal to reverse this decision first, and then I 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.920 think it would open the door for other next steps 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:03.880 that remain to be seen. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:09.240 There's been a wave of state legislatures passing laws against 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.640 transgender youth. What's driving more than half the state's opposition 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.760 to these rules for students? There always seems to be 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.960 this focus on transgender students using bathrooms that align with 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:24.360 their gender identity. 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:26.720 You know, I think you would have to ask the 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.920 states that filed the lawsuits about their motivations, but I 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:35.080 find it difficult to understand why a state would want 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.560 to make it harder for its students to learn. And 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.600 even though there's been a lot of focus on transgender 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.480 students and their rights to use the bathroom at school 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.400 that conforms with their gender identity, these regulations do so 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.960 much more than that. They protect pregnant students from discrimination 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:58.640 at school. They protect student survivors of sexual assault, and 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.160 I just find it hard to imagine why schools wouldn't 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.760 want students to feel safe, seen and. 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:05.440 Heard at school. 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.440 Part of is it set new rules for how schools 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:13.319 handle complaints of sex harassment and assault right yes. 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:18.480 One example of the changes is the sexual harassment portion. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.360 So before the Biden Raror regulation, schools were required to 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.840 investigate sexual harassment if the conduct was both severe and 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.920 pervasive and if it effectively denied a person equal access 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:36.160 to their school program. The Biden regulations lowered the standard 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.480 to require schools to investigate if the conduct was so 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:44.320 severe or pervasive that it denied or limits a person's 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:49.320 access to their program. The rule also changed the complainant status, 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.880 so before a school only had to investigate a complaint 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.360 if the complaining student was trying to access their education 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.200 at the time the complaint was filed. The bi and 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.960 Error Regulations change this to require schools to investigate if 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.920 the student was trying to access their education at the 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:08.479 time of the inctudent. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:16.200 And this had nothing to do with transgender athletes, that's correct. 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:22.200 This rule primarily focused on discrimination and harassment standards on 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.200 pregnant students and on postpartum students, making sure that they 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:31.080 have access to education and to modifications they need to learn, 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:37.400 and by explicitly addressing that sex discrimination under Title nine 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.720 includes discrimination on the basis of things like gender. 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:46.720 Identity, students still have rights under Title nine. What would 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:51.240 you recommend for transgender students who feel they're being discriminated 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.680 against based on their gender identity? What can they do? 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.960 So? This decision is devastating for students across the country 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.600 because without these vital protections, students have to fight so 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.440 much harder to get access to what they need so 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.440 that they can learn free from discrimination and harassment. But 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.160 what is important to keep in mind is that while 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.560 the decision vacated the twenty twenty four Regulations, Title nine 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.680 still very much exists. And offer students protection under the law. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.480 We are going to be in the fight with students 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.400 who need access to the things that they need to learn. 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.960 We encourage them to call our helpline. We encourage them 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.480 to reach out to us for resources if they're facing 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.880 difficulties with their school. I think it's just important to 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.920 note that ideally a student wouldn't need a lawyer's help 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.440 to get what they need so that they can learn 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.040 at school. They would just be able to go to 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.760 their Title nine coordinator. But we've seen that without the 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.320 explicit clarity that these regulations provide, it makes it much harder. 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.640 But they still have rights under Title nine and we 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.080 can still help them get access to what they need. 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.840 And tell us a little about your organization. A Better 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:06.160 Balance or a. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:11.680 Better Balance is a national legal nonprofit organization that helps 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.720 workers care for themselves and their loved ones without compromising 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:23.040 their financial security. We help workers who need assistants getting 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:28.480 access to pregnancy modifications, getting access to paid thick time, 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.560 paid family leave at work. And what my work does 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.960 is expand some of that practice to be focused on students, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.840 so we also help pregnant and postpartum students get access 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.640 to modifications they need so that they can fully participate 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.120 in their school programs while caring for their pregnancies. Our 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:54.199 helpline is free and confidential, and so when students or 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.160 workers call us, they know that they have a private resource. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:03.280 And the helpline number is one eight three six three 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:05.320 three two two two. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.360 That helpline sounds like a valuable resource. Thanks so much 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.600 for coming on the show, Samantha. That's Samantha Hunt of 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.520 a better balance. A Florida federal judge ruled today that 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.920 the Justice Department can publicly release volume one of Special 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:25.640 Counsel Jack Smith's final report on the federal criminal investigations 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:30.720 into President elect Donald Trump, detailing Trump's alleged efforts to 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:35.440 overturn the twenty twenty presidential election. But Judge Eileen Cannon 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.600 extended an earlier order that bars the government from sharing 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.560 the second volume of a special Council's report that relates 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:48.520 to the investigation into whether Trump mishandled classified documents and 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.320 obstructed efforts to retrieve them by the government. Joining me 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.680 is Bloomberg Legal reporter Zoe Tillman. So he tell us 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.840 exactly what Judge Cannon ruled. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.320 So the first part and arguably sort of most significant 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.159 is Judge Cannon said, I'm not going to stand in 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.879 the way of Attorney General Merrick Garland releasing the first 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:13.480 volume of former Special Counsel Jacksmith's report, and volume one 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.760 concerns the investigation into Trump's efforts to overturn the twenty 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:23.359 twenty election. Of Federal Appeals Court previously had refused to 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.200 intervene to stop Garlands from making a public Judge Cannon said, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.639 this really based on what the government has told me, 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.240 has nothing to do with the classified documents case before me, 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.080 so I don't really have any basis to step in here. 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.680 The second part of her order, though, involves Volume two, 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.480 which deals with the classified documents case, and what she 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.040 said is I'm not ready to rule on this yet. 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.200 The Attorney General doesn't plan to make that part public 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.800 given that there is still pending proceedings in that criminal case, 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:54.359 but he does plan to show it to Some members 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:58.000 of Congress and Trump's former co defendants have argued that's 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.399 enough of a risk to their interest in the case 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.960 that the judge should stop that from happening as well. 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.520 So Judge Cannon said, I'm going to block Garland from 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.320 doing anything with that section. For now, I'm going to 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.480 hold a hearing on January seventeenth, three days before Trump 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:17.280 is inaugurated, and then presumably enter an order on what 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.040 she thinks should be done with that volume. 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.879 Is it unlikely that this is going to be the 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.800 last word on the matter. Might the defense lawyers seek 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.159 to challenge this all the way up to the Supreme Court? 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.840 So far their mum on what they plan to do, 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.600 But it's certainly possible. You know, right now, the ballgame 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.080 is Volume one, because the Justice Department has already said 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.239 that Garland doesn't plan to release Volume two. You know, 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.199 whether members of Congress might you know, end up making 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.720 parts of Volume two public after they see it. That's 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.399 sort of several steps down the road where right now, 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.760 you know, to the extent Trump's former co defendants in 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.080 the case, who have Trump's support in this, if they 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.920 want to stop the public from seeing at least some 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.120 of Smith's work before Trump is inaugurated, at which point 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.640 he would have the ability to keep it all under wraps, 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.080 you know, they have to do something. Judge Cannon's earlier 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.560 injunction expires at midnight, so as of Tuesday, there is 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.320 nothing legally stopping the Justice Department from making a public 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.800 So whether it's trying to go back to the Eleventh Circuit, 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.879 which has already said no, or silence kind of emergency 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:27.000 application of the Supreme Court, those are their options at 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.399 this point. And I should say also, you know, the 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.159 Justice Department may want to get a ruling sooner on 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.800 Volume two and not wait several more days to see 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:37.879 what Judge Cannon's going to do. 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:42.200 Special Counsel Smith, though, transmitted the report and is out 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:43.160 of the picture now. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:43.840 That's right. 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:47.840 Judge Cannon, in her earlier order robuffed a request to 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:51.200 stop Smith from giving a copy even to the Attorney General. 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.000 So that has happened when the Attorney General formally gave 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.439 notice to Congress that he had it, and Jack Smith, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.280 as of late last week, had, in the Justice Department's 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.600 words in a footnote quote unquote, separated from the Justice 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:09.080 Department sort of a very unceremonial departure for someone who 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.960 has been such a significant figure in all of this 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.600 for the past two years. And so he's gone and 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.680 this is now up to Justice Department lawyers to fight 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.320 out in these final days of the Biden administration. 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:24.120 Does everyone assume that when Trump takes office and there's 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.840 a new Attorney general, that they're going to drop the 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:31.160 classified documents case against these two co defendants. 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:35.160 That's right. There is an expectation that, you know, it'll 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.119 be a direction to drop it. Whether there will also 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.600 be some kind of clemency action for them that would 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:48.600 head off some future investigation or prosecution, that's sort of unclear. 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:52.200 That would really mean the end of the case for sure. 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:56.640 Thanks so much, Zoe. That's Bloomberg Legal reporters, Zoe Tillman. 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.359 Coming up next will the Supreme Court keeping in junction 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:04.800 in place that blocks the Corporate Transparency Act. This is Bloomberg. 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:09.600 The Supreme Court is expected to rule soon on the 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:13.720 nationwide injunction issued by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:19.159 that blocks certain ownership reporting requirements under the Corporate Transparency Act. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:24.560 The CTA requires companies to disclose their true ownership. Finsen 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:29.320 estimates that thirty two point six million existing US businesses 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.760 plus another five million newly incorporated ones each year will 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:37.280 need to file reporting information, and that businesses will spend 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.960 one hundred and fifty million hours and thirty billion dollars 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:45.280 coming into compliance. The federal government made an application for 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:48.680 a stay of the injunction on New Year's Eve, saying 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:52.440 it would be harmed because the injunction cripples the Treasury's 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:57.080 efforts to enforce the law while sowing confusion. But a 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.520 group of twenty five Republican Attorneys general filed to brief 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:05.240 supporting the plaintiffs who sued over the CTA reporting requirements, 0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:09.560 agreeing that the act would create a substantial compliance burden. 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:14.200 Joining me is Joseph Liniac, a financial services partner at 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:18.960 Dorsey and Whitney. It's a bipartisan effort passed in twenty 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:22.480 twenty one. Explain what the Corporate Transparency Act. 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.320 Is the best way of viewing it is. The Corporate 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:31.600 Transparency Act is an expansion of existing law that's been 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.600 in place for many years, whereby banks and other financial 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:39.159 institutions when they make a loan have got to identify 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:43.919 who owns the borrower if it's a company, and identify 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:48.359 a senior officer. There was a negotiation that took place 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:52.479 over several years where the banks were complaining and I 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:58.400 think reasonably that the burden of this disclosure scheme fell 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:04.480 on them and actively solicited the government to take over 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:09.440 summer role of the rules. So in an omnibus bill 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:14.080 for the Defense Department, they included the Corporate Transparency Act, 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:19.240 which established for the first time the requirement that, besides 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.600 getting a loan from a bank, if you organize the company, 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:25.440 and for the most part it's going to be smaller 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:31.000 sized companies, you have to identify who owns twenty five 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:35.000 percent or more of the company, as well as who 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:39.520 exercises what's known as substantial control over the company. Now, 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:43.080 a company is generally going to be an entity that 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:48.640 requires registration with a Secretary of State or comparable office, 0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:56.119 and fincend is the enforcement agency. They issued regulations I 0:25:56.200 --> 0:26:01.080 believe in twenty twenty two establishing the requirement that several 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:05.320 categories that people begin to register. They identified who the 0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:10.160 exemptions were, and effectively the beginning of this year, meaning 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:16.440 January first, twenty twenty five, about thirty million entities were 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:21.880