1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The community is stunned after 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: they learn that hiker Mom out on a very well 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: known trail, the Maw and Paw Trail, ends up brutally 4 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: murdered and I think sext attacked as well. But in 5 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: the last days, a major break in the case in 6 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: the search for the killer of a mother of five, 7 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: so called hiker Mom, Rachel Mourn. I'm Nancy Grace, this 8 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: at Foxination and Series XM one eleven. We have a 10 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: very good idea who is the purp? First of all, 11 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend, Colonel William Davis. 12 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: DNA evidence is part of nearly every modern day investigation, 13 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: and in Rachel's case, DNA evidence was collected by our 14 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: Forensic Services Union. That DNA was analyzed by the Maryland 15 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: State Police and it was ran through National Code Assystem. 16 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: DNA evidence is I mean this DNA evidence has come 17 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: back as a match tied to a home invasion and 18 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 2: insult and an assault of a young girl in Los 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: Angeles this past March. Unfortunately, that suspect has not been 20 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: positively identified, but he did leave behind his DNA Based 21 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: on the DNA evidence, we considered the individual in the 22 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: video we obtained from the Los Angeles Police Department and 23 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: that we are about to show you on our TV 24 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: screens to be the person that murdered Rachel Mooren on 25 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: August fifth DNA. 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: Isn't it amazing? We actually have someone's genetic identification deyak 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: survivy Nclake acid. It's a genetic fingerprint. But we don't 28 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: have the perp. We don't know his name. We know 29 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: everything about him because of his DNA, but we don't 30 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: have him. And why do we think he is Rachel's killer? 31 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: What more do we know? 32 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 2: Listen base and our analysis of this video at Weakness Observations, 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: we believe the suspect to be approximately five foot nine, 34 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty pounds and of Hispanic descent. If 35 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: you have any information about this suspect, we are asking 36 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: you to priest call our detectives at our tip line 37 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: and I tip. My number is four to one zero 38 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: eight three six seven, seven eighty eight. And we've also 39 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 2: established a dedicated tip email address and that email address 40 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 2: is r M tips at Harfordshriff dot org. Again, that's 41 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: r M as in Razer Mooren Tips at Hartfordshriff dot Org. 42 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: It's killing me to know that we know so much 43 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: about the man believed to have murdered this beautiful young 44 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: mom of five, but he's connected to a home invasion 45 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: assault in LA over two thousand miles away. Joining me 46 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we 47 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: know right now. But first take a listen to our 48 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: cut seventy six from the Harvard Sheriff's Office. 49 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: We collected DNA from our crime scene. The Maryland State 50 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: Police analyzed that crime that DNA for us, ran it 51 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: through the National Coding System and that came back as 52 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: a match through the crime that occurred in Los Angeles 53 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: where they had recovered DNA from this person that get 54 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: saw in the video, the video that we watched. 55 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 3: Let it tell us about I mean what Los Angeles 56 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: police released achieve. 57 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 4: But what is it is that home? 58 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: Is it at a scene of a crime? Is at 59 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: a home? 60 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: And that is the suspect leaving the home the scene 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: of the crime there, and that. 62 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: Was a home invasion and assault, he said, correct, of. 63 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 5: A little girl? 64 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: Is that just a young girl? That's I'm going to 65 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: leave it at a younger. I don't want to talk 66 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: about the family there, but it was a young girl. 67 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 4: In the house, a kind of soul. 68 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: We know so much. He's within our grasp, but we 69 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: don't have a name. And also interesting, we don't have 70 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: a face. Again, I'm Nancy Grace and this is Crime Stories. 71 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us, joining us right now. Sheriff 72 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gaelor, Sheriff of the Harford County Sheriff's Office, and 73 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: you can find him at Hartfordshriff dot org. Sheriff, thank 74 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. I'm going to 75 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 1: get to the who, what, where, wife? 76 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 5: When? 77 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: But does it just drive you crazy? You know so 78 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: much about this guy. You know his origin, you know 79 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: his height, you know all about him is very d 80 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: and a but you don't know who he is. You 81 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: can't put out an APB on you know, Charles Madson, 82 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: you can't do it. You don't have a name. Is 83 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: that driving you crazy? 84 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 4: Sure? 85 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: Nancy, thanks for having me on, and you know to 86 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: what our detectives are working so hard on is what's 87 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: driving our community crazy. It is frustrating. But the reason 88 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: we appreciate the opportunity to be on any media is 89 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 3: because someone out there does know that person's name. Someone's 90 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: going to look at that video, someone's going to look 91 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 3: at the still shots from the video. And I'm as 92 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 3: frustrated as everybody else. I read the comments on social media. 93 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: Where's the other side of his face? If we had it, 94 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 3: we would put it out there. We just haven't obtained 95 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 3: it yet. Hopefully there's some medicinal video footage that will 96 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 3: come our way. But off of what's there, off of 97 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 3: his build, off of his walk, off of his appearance, 98 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 3: there's someone out there in the world who knows exactly 99 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: who that person is, and we need that person to 100 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 3: tell us so that we can get a match on 101 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: the DNA and put this monster behind bars. 102 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: This is reminiscent of a case now famous or should 103 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: I say infamous, The disappearance of Jennifer Kesse, a beautiful 104 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: young girl. When her parents got to her condo when 105 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: she didn't show up for work, they see that she's 106 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: just gotten out of the shower. It's still damp, the 107 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: towels are damp, her clothes for the day are laid out. 108 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: She'd liked to lay her clothes out on the bed 109 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: before she went to work, but no Jennifer. An exhaustive 110 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 1: search has ensued since Jennifer went missing and a video emerges. Yes, 111 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: a video of an unknown mail walking directly along in 112 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: front of her condo, but no face. Take a listen 113 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: to our car friends from CBS. 114 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 6: The person could not be identified because the surveillance video 115 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 6: captured a photo every three seconds, and each time the 116 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 6: figure's face was obstructed by a fence post. In twenty seventeen, 117 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 6: the Kessies recruited private investigator Michael Tretta to help them 118 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 6: conduct their own investigation. Tretta learned from speaking with people 119 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 6: who lived in Jennifer's complex that construction workers were living 120 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 6: in an empty apartment just across from Jennifer. 121 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: All this that's even a video, but just at the 122 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: right moment the camera panned and didn't get the face 123 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: joining me. In addition to special guest Sheriff Jeffrey Gailor, 124 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, investigative reporter of Fox forty five of Baltimore, Interesting, 125 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: former police officer MPI, author of Playbook to a Murder, 126 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: tell me all about everything you know about getting the 127 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: DNA and about this video that has emerged out of LA. 128 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 4: Well, Nancy, first, I can say when we were watching 129 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 4: the pressor in the newsroom. It was a WTS moment, 130 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 4: if you will. A guy from La or wherever he's from. 131 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 4: His DNA sign found at Rachel's crime scene. Total shock, 132 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 4: and of course our viewers want to know, well, why 133 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 4: do we not know this guy's name because we have 134 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 4: his DNA. But a lot of people don't understand. If 135 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 4: he's never been arrested before, you're not going to have 136 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 4: his name even though it's DNA. Maybe in Cotis he 137 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 4: may be walking out doing other crimes and no one 138 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 4: knows who he is. 139 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: Vincent, hold on, hold on, I got to follow up 140 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: on what you're saying. Don't lose your thought. Sheriff Gaylor, 141 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: please jump in whenever you have a thought with me. 142 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: Jessica Garth, chief of a special Victims Family Violence Unit, 143 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: Prince George County, veteran trial lawyer. Jessica, you hear people, 144 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: and I'm afraid that includes jurrrs. They'd say, well, you 145 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: got a fingerprint, can't you match it up. You can 146 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: get a perfectly beautiful, perfect pristine latent print, in other words, 147 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: the one found at the scene, the Layton print, But 148 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: unless you have something to compare it too, you can't 149 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,359 Speaker 1: get a name. Here's a good example, like DNA and coburger. 150 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: There's three unknown male DNA profiles found in and around 151 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: the home where the four students were slain. But they've 152 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: tried and tried. You got to have something to match 153 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: it too in order to present that to a jury. 154 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: If the purp has never been arrested, it's not in 155 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: the system, has had to give a fingerprint for any reason, 156 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: there's nothing to compare it to. So, yes, we've got 157 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: this guy's DNA that we think murdered Rachel mourn, leaving 158 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: our five children without a mother. They've been split up 159 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: and gone to different homes, but we can't get the 160 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: guy explained. 161 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's exactly right. So you know, we kind of 162 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 7: refer to it as the CSI effect when we're trying 163 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 7: cases that jurors expect that we're going to have, you know, 164 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 7: all kinds of DNA evidence, fingerprint evidence, and that there 165 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 7: will be an immediate match. It's going to pop up 166 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 7: on the screen and it's going to tell us, you know, 167 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 7: who committed the crime. But you're exactly right, you know, 168 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 7: you have to have a suspect to compare it to. 169 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 7: So what our DNA analysts do is they develop what's 170 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 7: called a profile. And I'll leave it to the doctors 171 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 7: to explain that a little bit more. But they we 172 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 7: take that profile and we compare it to the known 173 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 7: profile of a suspect, and when those two profiles match, 174 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 7: you know, our experts give us a statistic of a 175 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 7: degree of certainty that it is the same person who 176 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 7: left this DNA. Lawyers, it's hard job to explain to 177 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 7: the jury that, you know, the statistic means that this 178 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 7: is the person who left the DNA on the scene. 179 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 7: But if you don't have that person to compare it to, 180 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 7: then you just you know, your investigators are just trying 181 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 7: to track down who they can draw that profile from. 182 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace back to you, Vincent Hill, 183 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: forty five, Baltimore, Go ahead, Yeah. 184 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 4: I mean a lot of viewers are trying to track 185 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 4: down why do we not know this guy's name. I mean, 186 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 4: I've seen the comments all over Facebook or social media. 187 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 4: And again, if he hasn't been arrested, It's like I 188 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 4: told my newsroom, if he hasn't been arrested, this guy 189 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 4: is free to walk around until he does something even 190 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 4: more drastic, more horristic. And he's actually caught. But to 191 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 4: go back to something else, we only have a side 192 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 4: profile in the back of his head. I tell you 193 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 4: for a fact that my mother, even at fifty years old, 194 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 4: could spot my head from a crowd. So someone knows 195 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 4: who this guy is just by that big picture of 196 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 4: him walking out of this house in Los Angeles. 197 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 3: And Nancy Sheriff, I agree with Vincitt one hundred percent. 198 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: That's what I said. And I think it's going to be, 199 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 3: you know, opportunities like this to reach a large audience, 200 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 3: to have people go to our social media page and 201 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 3: look at this. I said in a few hours after 202 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 3: we didn't have somebody in custody very quick, that this 203 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 3: is going to be solved through science and technology. And 204 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 3: the science part has narrowed us down to this individual. 205 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 3: And I wish the technology had given us a better picture. 206 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 3: We're still out there scouring and hopefully we can come 207 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 3: up with one, but this is what we have for now. 208 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 3: But I agree with Vincent one hundred percent. Somebody knows. 209 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 3: Somebody looks at that picture and they know exactly who 210 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 3: this person is. 211 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, you know doctor Benthony Marshall. Of course I 212 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: agree with Sheriff Gailler. That pretty much goes you know, 213 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: and we know I'm going to agree with him. Visit hell, 214 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: I agree with you partially. Yes, your mother may be 215 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: able to pick your head out of a crowd. I 216 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: could pick out my children, I could pick out my husband. 217 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: But what mom is going to turn in their child? 218 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: And what mom who is gonna id some guy's head? Well, 219 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: you know what, let me throw this to a shrink, 220 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: all right. Doctor Bethanie Marshall is joining us so I 221 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. 222 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany bottom line, if you can identify somebody's head, 223 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: you're not turning them in. You know why, because you're 224 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: close to them. It's got to be a mother or 225 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: a sister. Not gonna turn them in unless they've got 226 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: some very unless they're like a conehead. That was a 227 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: very odd shaped head that co workers can identify. 228 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 8: It's so true, Nan, you know this family. Well, first 229 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 8: of all, this perp probably went straight to mommy's house 230 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 8: after the commission of the crime, because that's what they 231 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 8: always do. 232 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: I don't know about that because this is the typically, Yes, 233 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: they go run to mommy's. Isn't that true? Sheriff Jeffrey 234 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: Gayelor when a guy bs bond forfeits are does show 235 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: up to court, I always say, go to mommy's house 236 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: and look under the bed and look in her closet. 237 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: She took him in, that's where he is. They always 238 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: go to the auntie, the grandma, the mommy. That's typically true. 239 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 3: No, I would just agree with you, you know, be 240 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: it a mom or be a family. You know, people 241 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 3: when they're they're in trouble, Yeah, that's that's where they 242 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 3: turn to and that's who they trust will hide. But 243 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 3: this person, this person should not be hidden. This person 244 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 3: is a threat to every single person on the planet 245 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 3: until we figure out where they are. I'll say on 246 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: the planet, because wherever he is, whether he's still here 247 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 3: in our community or he's moved to you know, next 248 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 3: surrounding statu he's came back to LA, he poses a 249 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 3: threat anybody that would commit these kind of crimes in 250 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: both the LA and our homicide here. He poses a 251 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: threat to anyone who's around, family member or not. And 252 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 3: he needs taken off the street. 253 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: You know what, You left out a big swath of 254 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: area between LA and bel Air, Maryland, not bel Air, California, 255 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: all in between. How the hey does he get That's 256 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: what we counted up, Jackie. What was it? Twenty six 257 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: one hundred miles twenty six sixty nine miles from Maryland 258 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: to LA How the hey did he get that far? 259 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: And I'm looking at his picture, Guys, I assume everybody 260 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: has looked at the stills or the video. Let's talk 261 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: about what we see in this picture. Number one, do 262 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: you see the hairstyle? I guarantee you he's either got 263 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: still that hairstyle or something similar where part of his 264 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: head is shaved from like the neck up and then 265 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: he's got like a fake mullet going down the back. 266 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: There's going to be some type of a unique hairstyle, 267 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: mark my words. Okay, he looks to me between I'm 268 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: gonna go with nineteen twenty nine. Do you agree with 269 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: that or disagree? Hereff Gaylor. 270 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, we put it at twenty to thirty, so right 271 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 3: in that same ballpark. But you're the haircuts very distinctive. 272 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 3: It's been it's been the number one source of the 273 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 3: tips that we've received. And I would ask you know, 274 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 3: anybody hearing this and if they have a tip. You 275 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: said the numbers earlier, but we have a special email 276 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,119 Speaker 3: box RM Tips Rachel Morin Tips RM tips at Harpershriff 277 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: dot org. Did let us know, But that hairstyle is 278 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: certainly distinct. And I think if you look at his walk, 279 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 3: you know how he carries himself. You know, he's a 280 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 3: muscular young man and five nine hundred and sixty pounds. Again, 281 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 3: somebody has seen him, somebody has maybe been at the 282 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: gym with him or or working a job with him. 283 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 3: Somebody knows who he is on that picture, and. 284 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 8: Nancy, not only that, but he's a menacing figure. And 285 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 8: even though the family may circle the wagons, just like 286 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 8: remember Brian Landry's family, they knew possibly that he had 287 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 8: murdered Gabby Patito, But did they turn him in? Did 288 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 8: they assist Gaby Potito's family? No, they circled the right 289 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 8: wagons and they protected their own son. But with this 290 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 8: purp because he's menacing, because he's a creeper, I'm sure 291 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 8: that there's women he stated, people he went to high 292 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 8: school with, people he works with. Who knows that there's 293 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 8: something off or wrong about these guys? Right, even like 294 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 8: with Brian Coberger, All these people are coming forward now 295 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 8: saying that he was dominating other women, that he was 296 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 8: a scary figure, that he was a bully. So there 297 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 8: are plenty of people. I don't think we have to 298 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 8: rely on the family to come forward because there are 299 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 8: people in his circle who knows something's wrong with him. 300 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I want to find out Vincent Heel. Can 301 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: you tell me what is he accused of doing in 302 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: LA specifically? 303 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 4: Well, Nancy and I may I get to share to 304 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 4: correct me on this, but I believe there was some 305 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 4: type of home invasion and assault of a young female 306 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 4: in side that home in Los Angeles back in March 307 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 4: this year. But I refer to the shriff on that. 308 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 4: But I believe that's the information we received from the 309 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 4: Los Angeles Police Department. 310 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: Let's take a look at the video. He's opening up 311 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: the door of the home of the victim. I think 312 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: that he raped. He's leaving. He doesn't even have his 313 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: shirt on. Man, could you at least get dressed before 314 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: you leave. It's in a residential neighborhood, it's in the evening, 315 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: don't know what time. It's a female victim. The mo 316 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: is different because here he's gone into the home and 317 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: he has I believe raped a female victim. We're hearing assault, 318 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: but we know that there's DNA and that makes me 319 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: think that it's sperm. So was it a rape? Sheriff killer? 320 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna because you know, there's still part of 321 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 3: the active investigation other than what we've released with your 322 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 3: spot on a home invasion with an assault we're not covering. Yeah, well, 323 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: I'm not at liberty to go into any other details, 324 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 3: but it certainly you know his actions there are similar 325 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 3: to some of the mo that we have here. I'll 326 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: just leave it. 327 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: At that exactly, okay, And I of course do not 328 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: want to in any way and pay the investigation or 329 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: harm the integrity of the investigation. So when you finally, 330 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: god willing, get to trial, you can be accused spouting 331 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: out information that's privy to the case. 332 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,479 Speaker 3: We want to give our investigators every opportunity to, you know, 333 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: to keep it to what it needs to be kept 334 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 3: out of the public for right now, but while we 335 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 3: still share what we can to help us bring this 336 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 3: person in the custody. And again you touched on the 337 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 3: thing about traveling. We don't know whether he lives there 338 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 3: and was visiting out here or whether he visits you know, 339 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 3: was visiting out there when he committed this crime, that 340 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: crime in March and lives out here, or any combination thereof. 341 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: He could live in Ohio and just have visited both 342 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: places to commit these acts. So until we know who 343 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: he is, we don't know what part of the country 344 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 3: he is hanging his hat. 345 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: No, Sheriff, I don't think he visited one of the 346 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: two places just to commit the act. I think he's 347 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: a predator. He happened to be in LA for whatever reason. 348 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: I don't think he went there just to assault. I'll 349 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: say assault because we don't know if it was a 350 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: rape or asadomy. We don't know if it was touched 351 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: DNA somewhere in the home. But we know there was 352 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: a home invasion and there was an assault on a 353 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: female victim in LA, and that there's DNA. We know 354 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: that in Bela or Maryland, it's a completely different scenario, 355 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: different modus opread my method of operation. He's out on 356 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: a hiking trail. He sees a lone female and I'm 357 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: assuming the female in LA was alone, don't know her age, 358 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: but he sees a female alone and he pounces and 359 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: he I believe raped Rachel Morin and murdered her. I 360 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: know you are not going to tell me whether she 361 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: was raped or not, but we're getting DNA from somewhere. 362 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: Plus we know that she was naked and lying on 363 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: her back, or so we've been told. So straight to 364 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: doctor Monte Miller, Director Forensic DNA Experts, LLC, specialists in 365 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: sex assaults and murder. Now this is where he gets 366 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: a lot of his training, former forensic scientists for the 367 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: Texas Department of Public Safety Crime Lab. Can I tell 368 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: you how many thousands of DNA comparisons you do if 369 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: you're at the crime lab. You can find them at 370 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: FORENSICDNA Experts dot com. Doctor Monty Miller, thank you for 371 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: being with us. You're hearing the facts as I am. 372 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: Tell me what you think happened in LA and what 373 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: you think happened in Maryland. 374 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 5: Well, I think that First of all, I'd like to 375 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 5: commend the police departments, both of them, for doing the 376 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 5: DNA and getting it out quickly. 377 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: Amen, brother, you're so right about that. Go ahead. 378 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, we have so many cases that sit there for 379 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 5: a while and they're not able to identify the person 380 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 5: quickly when the second crime happens, because the first lab 381 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 5: hasn't finished. So yeah, I mean the crime labs did 382 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 5: a good job. 383 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: You just gave me a horrible feeling. You remember Eliza Fletcher, 384 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: the Memphis mom that was out jogging four am. I 385 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: think she had two children at home doing it all, 386 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: and this PERV grabs her, I believe rapes her, murders her, 387 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: and he had actually committed another rate. But the DNA 388 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: could have been sitting on a shelf for like a year, 389 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 1: and if he had been apprehended in that rate, Eliza 390 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: Fletcher would be alive today. 391 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 5: Well yeah, and that's exactly what they did great in 392 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 5: this case. You know, they did the DNA and so 393 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 5: somebody didn't go at least unnoticed for a second crime 394 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 5: across the country. So, but he has left his DNA 395 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 5: so that you know, there's a good indication that there 396 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 5: was some DNA that they knew came from him inside 397 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 5: that house, and that you know oftentimes comes from a 398 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 5: sexual assault because you know, they have DNA that from 399 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 5: sperm and they that way they know that it's the 400 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 5: perpetrator and somebody else who visited that house. So whatever 401 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 5: it is, they're confident that they got his DNA from 402 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 5: that house. It doesn't look like he's leaving in a hurry, 403 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 5: or that he's bloody, or that he's injured, so it 404 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 5: could have been touched DNA. But you know, there's a 405 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 5: good chance that was a sexual assault. And the same 406 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 5: thing with you know, the murder victim, Rachel Marin. You know, 407 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 5: they might have gotten DNA off of the rock that 408 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 5: was found that he used to hit her, but that 409 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 5: might have bled and other things on it. So a 410 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 5: sexual assault is oftentimes the best case to get a 411 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 5: really good DNA profile because you know it came from 412 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 5: the person who had sexual intercourse with the other person. 413 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 5: So you know, I think there's a good chance they're 414 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 5: both sexual assaults if one. 415 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 8: Of them is. 416 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: You're hearing the voice of dutch A Monte Miller, director 417 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: at Forensic DNA Experts dot com. Who is that jumping in. 418 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 3: Me, Sheriff. I was just going to say, you know, 419 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 3: I hear you know a lot of speculation. Again, I 420 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 3: just wish I was in more of a position to 421 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 3: be able to speak freely, but I just you know, 422 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 3: I've heard how the scene looks and this and that. 423 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 3: I just want to be clear that we haven't released 424 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 3: any of those investigative details. And we know we know 425 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: some of the information out there as accurate. We know 426 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 3: some of it is not accurate, and I wish I 427 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 3: could clarify which is which, But you're one hundred percent right, 428 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 3: I mean, but DNA can be left in many different ways, 429 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 3: and I am thankful that it was, you know, and 430 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 3: right again, I'd rather have this guy's name and face 431 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: straight on. But I'm thankful that LA detectives out there 432 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 3: took that case seriously. They did a good investigation, which 433 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 3: you know, included the collection of DNA at the scene 434 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 3: and has put bring back a tie. You know, so 435 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 3: much of policing used to be cops, just cops and robbers. 436 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 3: But now without our civilian forensic experts and the people 437 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 3: the science part of this thing, we'd be nowhere in 438 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 3: this investigation. And that is it's important to note. But again, 439 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 3: I hate to be the guest who kind of has 440 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: the fashion in his head, but it's not free to 441 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 3: share him. But that's unfortunately where I find myself. As 442 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 3: I listened to the other callers, you know. 443 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: What's interesting, I'm taking from what you said, I'm interpreting 444 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: that we got one of those facts wrong. Maybe it's 445 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: the rock. Maybe she wasn't naked, maybe she wasn't on 446 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: her back, maybe there wasn't a rape. We got something wrong, 447 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: but we've got something right. But it's the share of 448 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gailler refuses to play twenty one questions with me. 449 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to go forward with what I do know, 450 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: and you know what this is reminding me of Jackie. 451 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to our cut seventy seven. 452 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: I think now it kind of leads us down the 453 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: path that we believe this was a person that Racil 454 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: probably didn't know, maybe you could say, potentially a random 455 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: act of violence. And we're hoping that the community now 456 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 2: can watch that video. And we also got steel pictures 457 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 2: that we're going to be putting out and that somebody 458 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: can identify you. We don't have any clue where he 459 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 2: could be. We don't even know if he's still in 460 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 2: harp account. They were in the state of Maryland because 461 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 2: obviously in March he was in California, and then here 462 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: in August he was here in Maryland, So we don't 463 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 2: know if he's still here or not. 464 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: This is eerily reminiscent for various reasons of the Delphi 465 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: murders Little Libby and Abby, and I'll tell you why. 466 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: I take a listen our cut nine aar friends at 467 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: People magazine. 468 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 9: Police have announced that a widely circulated photo of the 469 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 9: main suspect and a double homicide of two Indiana teenagers 470 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,479 Speaker 9: was taken by one of the victims before she was killed. 471 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: On February fourteenth. 472 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 9: The bodies of Liberty German and Abigail Williams were found 473 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 9: one day after they. 474 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: Were reported missing. 475 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,479 Speaker 9: At a press conference on Wednesday, police announced that Liberty 476 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 9: not only took the photo of the male suspect, but 477 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 9: she also recorded a video moments before her death that 478 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 9: includes audio of a man talking, although officials are unsure 479 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 9: whether the voice belongs to the suspect. 480 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: You will recall with Abby and Limbby, the two little 481 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: girls murdered off the trestle bridge in Delphi, that the 482 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: wild speculation that there was a transient, someone that had 483 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: come from out of town. We argued against that at 484 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: the get go, because highly unlikely a transient would have 485 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: known about that trustle bridge kind of tucked away out 486 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. It didn't make sense. Now 487 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out does this guy caught on 488 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: Servilli's video on a ring camera, a doorbell cam in 489 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: La does he live in bel Air, Maryland? Now? Is 490 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: he a transient? If he is a transient, how did 491 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: he know about this hiking trail? Now? Isn't it true, 492 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: Sheriff Giller that the hiking trail butts up against apartments? 493 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 3: Yes, the Monpi Hiking Trail actually working on a new 494 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 3: section of it that's going to connect it and make 495 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 3: it around eight I think it's about eight miles long 496 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 3: total when it's finished. So there's a north section in 497 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 3: the south section. This happened in the south section, which 498 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 3: is closer to the town of bel Air, the county seat. 499 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 3: Very very very safe. In fact, I can't even remember 500 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 3: when the last homicide in the town of bel Air was. 501 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 3: The h but it runs right behind the mall area, 502 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 3: the big shopping area for the town. It runs from 503 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 3: where she had parked her car. Where Rachel had parked 504 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 3: her car is right behind one of the local breweries. 505 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 3: Always a lot of people there, a bunch of condos, 506 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 3: and it goes down behind the mall and stuff and 507 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 3: then finishes that the big fields where we actually have 508 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 3: our County Fair every year. It's a very very popular, 509 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 3: well used, improved trail from a old railroad system, the 510 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: mom Pow railroad that just gets gets a lot of 511 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 3: a lot of activity. And to have something out there 512 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 3: happen is just, you know, to have any crime out 513 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 3: there happen, it's just so far outside the norm, much 514 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 3: less something so horrific as Rachel's homicide. 515 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: Sure you gather ring video surveillance from the brewery and 516 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: anyone else in those apartments and homes that look onto 517 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: the trail or onto the trail head. 518 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, we have collected. Investigators have collected all the video. Unfortunately, 519 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 3: there's not video on the trail. It's actually the part 520 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 3: of the trailer. The trail is part of the Harper 521 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 3: County Parks and WRECTS system. They have announced the Parks 522 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: and Wrecks have announced that they're going to put cameras 523 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 3: along the trail now, which would be great, but unfortunately 524 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 3: we didn't have them before. But we've also done solicitations 525 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 3: out in the public, social media and through our robocall 526 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 3: system asking people you know, for video footage around the 527 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 3: time that Rachel went missing, and to where she was discovered. 528 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 3: Because yeah, we're hopeful as we pour through all this 529 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: investigators pour through all this video footage and stuff that 530 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 3: we have been able to gather, that we'll get a 531 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 3: better picture of this individual, of the suspect, and perhaps 532 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 3: a vehicle or something like that. But you know, we 533 00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 3: do not have that at this moment. 534 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: Of another case. So that I worked with the victims' families, 535 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: the family of Jennifer, you and beautiful mom, who would 536 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: ride about a fifty mile bike trail multiple times a week. 537 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: She was about thirty is miles in on the Silver 538 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: Comet Trail when she was attacked and murdered by Michael Ludford. 539 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: Michael Ludford. Surrounding the trail, there were a number of 540 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: vantage points where you could see onto the trail, including apartments, 541 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: and this guy Lesford had been scaring women and exposing 542 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: himself and staring at them, survealing them many times before 543 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: Jennifer was murdered. So let me go to you, doctor 544 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: Bethy Marshall. I'm going to talk about why this trail. 545 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: Was he living in those apartments? Was he living on 546 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: the trail as a transient in the woods, Because I 547 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: know for a fact that a group of law enforcement 548 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: LA were out in the woods, you know, many feet 549 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: off the trail, huddled together looking at something. Did they 550 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: find evidence someone had been living out there tinting? You 551 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: know Eric Rudolph who was the Olympic bomber in Atlanta. 552 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: Then he bombed to abortion clinics and by the way 553 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: the shrapnel hit my investigator, it was time. So one 554 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: would go off and then the next one would go 555 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: off as soon as people came to investigate the first one. 556 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: I don't know who this guy is. I don't know 557 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: why he's in bel Air, Maryland. Does he live there, 558 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: is he visiting? It's hard to believe he's he a 559 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: transient all the way from LA. But let's think about 560 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: them and another thing. Dr Bethany Marshall. I had a 561 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: gut feeling at the get go. I didn't go after 562 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: the boyfriend. There was just something about the fact that 563 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: he had her children. They were out looking for her, 564 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: he called nine one one. It just didn't feel right, 565 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: even though statistically it's the love object, but not in 566 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: this case. So I'm glad we didn't put the nail 567 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: in his coffin, right. 568 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 8: That's right, Nancy, there's something about the brutality of the 569 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 8: crime that tells me that sexual excitement and inflicting harm 570 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 8: were a part of them. And in terms of why 571 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 8: this trail whin you're an apartment building, why you're a 572 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 8: brewery and everything you're describing. I have a theory that 573 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 8: he is a serial killer in the making, or maybe 574 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 8: he's already a serial killer, and there are multiple victims, 575 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,479 Speaker 8: you know, in the pathway between the two crimes. But 576 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 8: if he's a serial killer in the making, his choice 577 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 8: of the mom pad trail is going to be influenced 578 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 8: by the victim profile, like who he's fishing for, who 579 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 8: is he on the hunt for? He's on the hunt 580 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 8: for young women. If the first victim was a very 581 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 8: young girl, you know, he could be a pedophile, that 582 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 8: that would be a part of his multiple perversions. And 583 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 8: also that the women who are vulnerable, women who are 584 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 8: on there are separated from family members or loved ones. 585 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: I think you said on their phone, did you say 586 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: on their phone. 587 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 8: On their own on their own own? 588 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: And I'm saying that Rachel may have had earbudds in 589 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: I don't know that yet, but we believe that may 590 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: have happened. 591 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 8: Go ahead, well, I'm suspecting victims, right, And also this 592 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 8: guy is pretty brave. I mean, the fact that he 593 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 8: accosted a girl as a part of a home invasion 594 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 8: tells me that he's desperate. He's desperate to kill. He's 595 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 8: desperate to inflict cruelty while sexually accosting a victim. And 596 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 8: this desperation may have driven him to the mon Pod 597 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 8: trail where it's very secluded. There are places where he 598 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 8: could hide, and there are easy weapons. You know, he 599 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 8: bashed her face in with a rock, so he didn't 600 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 8: have to go and buy and done. He didn't have 601 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 8: to go get a knife, he didn't have to do 602 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 8: anything like that. He didn't have to put a big 603 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 8: effort into it. All he had to do was hide 604 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 8: along the trail and wait, wait for Rachel Moore and 605 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 8: to come by. So so that to me speaks of 606 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 8: a certain type of desperation. 607 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 3: Nancy, if I can, I did. I did want to 608 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 3: say that. You know, we again, we haven't released anything 609 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 3: other than saying it was a violent attack as far 610 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 3: as the specifics of how Rachel's life was taken, but 611 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 3: you talked to the trail is very popular goes by 612 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 3: a lot of different condos, buildings, a couple of houses, 613 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 3: housing areas. I don't know. I've said on some of 614 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 3: the interviews I've done my backyard actually hits a portion 615 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 3: of the mom Pot Trail, so we've always considered a 616 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 3: very safe place. But again it has very secluded areas 617 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 3: along it, so you know it's a place that they 618 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 3: could hide. But this this individual, I can tell you, 619 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 3: although I woncome into the specifics about how her life 620 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 3: was taken other than the general saying it was very violent, 621 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 3: this guy has an absolute disregard for human life and 622 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 3: I think he demonstrated that in what I know of 623 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 3: LA and obviously in the homicide here. So yeah, talk 624 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 3: about is he a serial killer or is he becoming one? 625 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 3: He certainly has no care in the world for the 626 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 3: value of a human life. 627 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace Guys. Joining me right now 628 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: is a very well known medical examiner joining us out 629 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: of the state of Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher. I wanted 630 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: him to hear the analysis before he weighs in. Lecturer 631 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine and the founder 632 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. He founded that 633 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: a true expert in his field, Doctor Gallagher, thank you 634 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: for being with us, Doctor Gallagher. The sheriff is neither 635 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: confirming nor denying that Rachel Morin was bludgeoned. We have 636 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: also heard reports, not from him, that she was naked. 637 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: A naked lady lying out on a trail tells me 638 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: she was sex assaulted. I'm curious how often you see 639 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 1: bludgeoning cases. Now, I'm not saying that's her cod cause 640 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: of death, which I want to also ask you, even 641 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: if she was bludgeoned, would you still be able to 642 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: determine if she was, for instance, asphyxiated, just because she's 643 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: been hit in the head with the rock. If she was, 644 00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: and that's based on alleged eyewitness accounts, but the bludgeoning, 645 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: the bludgeoning, I find that peculiar. And I wonder if 646 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: the female victim in La was beaten about the face. 647 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: We don't know that. They seem very much opportunistic. But 648 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: what do you make of the bludgeoning and can you 649 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 1: get a different cause of death, Doctor Gallagher. 650 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 10: Good points Nancy, Typically the bludgeoning would be if the 651 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 10: offender needs the victim to become unresponsible very quickly. You know, 652 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 10: if a strangulation can take about three or four minutes 653 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 10: to complete, and to be on this popular trail for 654 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 10: three or four minutes strangling somebody, you know, you would 655 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 10: definitely get a lot of attention. But the bludgeoning, and 656 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,919 Speaker 10: I'm going to assume here possible skull fractures or an 657 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 10: injury that would incapacitate the person instantaneously would be more 658 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 10: ad and tageous, you know, to his mo to sexually 659 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 10: offending on the victim, you know, and then leaving very 660 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 10: quickly before other people can come by and identify the scene. 661 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 10: So when we do the autopsy, these are things that 662 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 10: we look for. We look for the skull fractures, the 663 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 10: brain injuries, the internal bleeding that is representative of the 664 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 10: blunt force trauma. We also have to look at the 665 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 10: neck area, which is the most common area for strangulation, 666 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 10: and look at the muscles, look at the windpipe, look 667 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 10: at the blood vessels that are in there and see 668 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 10: if they have linear patterns of hemorrhage or linear patterns 669 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 10: of damage on them, which would be representative of a strangulation. 670 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 10: But we need to keep in mind that strangulation does 671 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 10: take three possibly four minutes, to complete, and it certainly 672 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 10: would expose him for a long time on the trail. 673 00:37:53,680 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 10: So bludgeoning would render the person unconscious instantaneously and then 674 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 10: the offender would be able to enact his mo. 675 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: Wow, well, Nancy, that was a lot of information. Is 676 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 1: this Sheriff Gaylor? 677 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 4: Now this is Vince, So go ahead Saturday. I had 678 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 4: the opportunity to walk that trail. They had a five 679 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 4: k in honor of Rachel. I actually walked with her sister, Rebecca. 680 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 4: It was part of my story for today. But as 681 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 4: the ex cop and private investigator, there were parts of 682 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 4: the trail well where I was literally thinking while he 683 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 4: could have lied and wait right here, it's very secluded, 684 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 4: could have done what he had to do. He actually 685 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 4: could have taken three or four minutes to do whatever 686 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 4: he had to do with Rachel, because there were parts 687 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 4: of that trail, Nancy, during that five k where I 688 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 4: was just thinking, man, he could have come from here. 689 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 4: It backs up to a road. At certain parts, he 690 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 4: could have parked the car. It goes by a farmer's market, 691 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 4: he could have parked across the street. I mean, it's 692 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 4: very secluded over in that area. So there are plenty 693 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 4: of opportunities for him to have done something there. But 694 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 4: I want to go back to something you said earlier, 695 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 4: Nancy about Delphi and the guy likely not knowing the trail. 696 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 4: I'll be honest. I've been living in the Baltimore area 697 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 4: for almost a year. I had never heard of the 698 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 4: MA and Pa trail until two weeks ago when Rachel 699 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 4: went missing and her body was found. So the investigator 700 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 4: in me tells me this guy knew about this trail. 701 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 4: Because when I think of Los Angeles and don't get 702 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 4: offended by this sheriff dealer. When I think of Los 703 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 4: Angeles and I think of Maryland, I don't think Hartford County. 704 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 4: Most people think Baltimore, Annapolis, Aberdeen. So that tells me 705 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 4: this guy may have known the area and known where 706 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 4: that trail was. 707 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 3: I agree with one hundred percent of Vince. This is 708 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,919 Speaker 3: not you know, we're a quiet new community about thirty 709 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 3: minutes north of Baltimore, and you know, not known for 710 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 3: known for low crime and the safe community. So it's 711 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 3: not generally where we have stuff like this. But not 712 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 3: generally if you're going around the country, you kind of 713 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 3: have have to explain where it is in relation to 714 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 3: Baltimore because people just don't know where we're located. 715 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, Sheriff and everybody jump in, Jessica Garth, 716 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: it's just right up your alley in the LA case 717 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: where we get we believe the killer's DNA. I'm looking 718 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: in the video over and over and over. Somebody follows 719 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: him to the door and they shut the door behind him. 720 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm not sure who that is, but it looks like 721 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 1: a female hand shutting the door behind him. That victim lived, 722 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: this victim did not. I'm curious about the differences in 723 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: the attacks, the method of operation, Sheriff gillor what do 724 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 1: you make of it? 725 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 3: Again, that's something that a lot of people have brought 726 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 3: to our attention that we know is there. We know 727 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 3: that there's an arm there, that somebody closes the door 728 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 3: behind the suspect leaving, and again, it's not what you 729 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 3: would expect, now, what a seasoned police officer would expect 730 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 3: someone leaving the scene of a crime, you know, the 731 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 3: home invasion and an assault to be casually walking out 732 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 3: with his clothes stucked under his arm, you know, and 733 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 3: the door being shut behind him. But you know, our 734 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,319 Speaker 3: investigators continue to work the case hard to try to 735 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 3: make sense of what doesn't make sense by appearances, and hopefully, 736 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 3: you know, the investigation will explain all of those things 737 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 3: out in time. But the main thing that's needed at 738 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 3: this point is figuring out who this guy is. 739 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: Is that victim a minor? Was she a minor at 740 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 1: the time of the attack? Sheriff in La Yes, So 741 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, think about that attacking a minor. I can 742 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: easily see a miner not really knowing what to do 743 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: after a rape or a sex assault or an ag 744 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: assault and walking it, walking to the door and shutting 745 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: it in complete astoun and can difusion? What about it, 746 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: Jessica Garth, There's a big difference and a grown lady 747 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: like Rachel Moron who's thirty seven, and a girl, a 748 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: minor girl that's attacked. 749 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 7: One hundred percent degree. I mean, when I saw that 750 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 7: video and I saw that he had been essentially walked 751 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 7: out of the house of a few things occurred to me. 752 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 7: And of course it's speculation, but number one, if this 753 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 7: is a minor victim, which I am assuming since her 754 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 7: name hasn't been released then and it was in her 755 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 7: own home, I mean, where's she going to run to? 756 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: For safety. 757 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 7: She's in the safest place that she knows, So I 758 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 7: think at some point it's just a matter of staying 759 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 7: alive in that situation. If this is a grown man 760 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,479 Speaker 7: in her home, she's not going to fight back, she's 761 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 7: not going to create a fuss. She's going to get 762 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 7: out of the situation as safely as she can. So, 763 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 7: you know, if he is making moves to leave the home, 764 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 7: or if she said something like, oh, my parents are 765 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 7: going to come home, you have to get out of here, 766 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 7: and he's leaving, she's just going to let him leave, 767 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 7: and she's going to close that door, and I'm sure 768 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 7: a locket immediately behind him. And the second thing I 769 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 7: thought was that even if it were a grown woman, 770 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 7: you know, playing along or going along with somebody who's 771 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 7: assaulting you is one method to survive a violent attack 772 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 7: like this. 773 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: You're right, Rachel Moran may have fought back and this 774 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: young girl didn't or couldn't. Doctor Monte Miller joining us 775 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: for forensic DNA experts, what's your analysis of what we 776 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: know right now? 777 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 5: Well, I think that you know, we have the guys 778 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 5: DNA and so we're going to be able to identify 779 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 5: the guy at some point like, like you know, other 780 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 5: people have mentioned, he's probably going to turn out to 781 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,799 Speaker 5: be a serial killer or something similar or certainly has 782 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 5: no problem killing people and raping people and having, you know, 783 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 5: any kind of issues. So the guy's going to continue 784 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 5: to do these things. We're going to continue to find 785 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,280 Speaker 5: his DNA until we find out who he is, until 786 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 5: we identify him and put him in jail. 787 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: I'm curious to find out if his DNA pops up 788 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: anywhere else in the country or just along this stretch. Guys, 789 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 1: the tip line is toll free eight eight eight five 790 00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: four zero eight four seven seven Repeat one eight eight 791 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: eight five four zero eight four seven seven. We want 792 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: justice not only for Mamma five Rachel Morin, but for 793 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: her children that have now been split up. Their family 794 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: has been broken apart forever. Goodbye friend,