1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Vie Wilson, and I'm Holly Fry. Today's episode 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: was inspired by some conversation that followed a recent episode 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: of the podcast Radio Lab. That episode was titled The 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Right Stuff, and it was about a parabolic flight that 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: was part of a project called Mission Astro Access. It's 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: the project that's working towards disability inclusion in space. We 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: will be talking about that some more at the end 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: of the episode, but I will say upfront that I 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: highly recommend that episode of Radio Lab. What we are 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: going to talk about today is a group of deaf 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: men who have become known as the Galladet eleven. They 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: were subjects and NASA's research into the human body in 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: the early years of the space program. Most of what 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: has been written about them in more recent years followed 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: the opening of an exhibit about them at Galadat University. 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: It was titled Deaf Difference plus Space Survival, and there 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: have been ongoing efforts since that exhibit opened to try 20 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: to make this story better known. Heads up, though, that 21 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: a lot of this episode is about experiments involving human subjects. 22 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: These are folks who consented to being involved in these 23 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: in this research, but still that's the whole purpose of 24 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: what was happening. Also, some of the language that was 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: used in that research, which still shows up in research today, 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: which we're going to mention very briefly, it comes across 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: as demeaning and so just a heads up on that. 28 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: So the galad At eleven were recruited for this research 29 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: due to differences in their inner ears, So we're gonna 30 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: start with those basics. The inner ear is made up 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: of two labyrinths, an outer bony labyrinth in an or 32 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: membranous labyrinth. Each of these labyrinths has three sections. The 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: bony labyrinth includes the vestibule, the semicircular canals, and the cochlea. 34 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: The membranous labyrinth includes the semicircular ducts, the odolith organs, 35 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: and the cochlear duct. All of this is lined with 36 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: a fluid either and a limph for para lymph depending 37 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: on exactly where in this system it is. In humans 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: and most other mammals, the inner ear is connected to 39 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: the sense of hearing and the sense of balance. Membranes 40 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: and sensory cells and tiny little hairs pass along information 41 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: from vibrations in the case of sound, or from gravity 42 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: and movement in the case of equilibrium and balance. More specifically, 43 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: the odolith organs are also called the utrical and secule, 44 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: and they detect the influence of gravity, while the semicircular 45 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: canals detect the position of the head. Sometimes these organs 46 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: are all grouped together as the vestibular system them and 47 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: they work together to help maintain the body's postural equilibrium. 48 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: In other words, all the little detections and movements that 49 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: helped keep a person's body stable, with one exception. The 50 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: men from galad At College now galad At University who 51 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: were recruited for this research all had meningitis as children. 52 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: Meningitis is an inflammation of the membranes around the spinal cord, 53 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: and sometimes the infection can spread beyond the spinal cord 54 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: and damage other parts of the body. This was especially 55 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: true before we had antibiotics that could treat bacterial meningitis. 56 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: Damage to a person's cochlea can cause deafness, and damage 57 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: to a person's vestibular system can affect their balance and 58 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: their coordination, and all of these men, meningitis had damaged 59 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: both their cochlea and their vestibular system, so sometimes they 60 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: are described as having been recruited because they were deaf, 61 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: but really the vestibular system was what was central to 62 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: this research. The one person from this group who did 63 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: not become deaf as a result of meningitis was Robert Greenman. 64 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: He was actually one of NASA's earliest subjects for this research, 65 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: before the rest of the gallad At eleven were recruited. 66 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: He had mastoiditis at the age of twelve, and he 67 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: had two ear surgeries later on. This damaged his cochlea 68 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: and his vestibular system, although based on some of his 69 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: test results it seemed like he might still have some 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: function in his odo lith organs. In nineteen fifty eight, 71 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: he offered to have his odo lith organs surgically removed 72 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: to ensure that there was no remaining function that might 73 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: affect the results of the tests. This research was a 74 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: joint project between NASA and the Navy, overseen by Dr 75 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: Ashton Grabiel. After four years of back and forth, the 76 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: Navy turned down Greenman's request for surgery, and Grabial advised 77 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: him not to try to have it done on his own. Yeah. 78 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: Greenman is no longer living, but people who knew him 79 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: have act about this as like an indication of how 80 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: dedicated he was to this research and its success. We 81 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: will be getting two more about what exactly the researchers 82 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: were hoping to learn through all of this. But when 83 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: this work started, people did already know that the ear 84 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: was involved in the sense of balance and equilibrium. In 85 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty four, French neurologist Marie Jean Pierre Florent cut 86 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: the semicircular canals of pigeons. Afterwards, the pigeons could still hear, 87 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: but they started moving their heads in unusual ways. He 88 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: concluded that the semicircular canals were connected to the pigeon's 89 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: sense of balance, and that this disruption to that sense 90 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: was causing these unusual head movements. This was the first 91 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: published research to really suggest a connection between balance and 92 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: the inner ear. In eighteen sixty one, French physician Prospermin 93 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: Yeah described a disorder involving things like vertigo, usure in 94 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: ringing in the ears, and hearing loss, and he connected 95 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: all of that to the inner ear. This collection of 96 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 1: symptoms is still known as Miner's disease today. Minnere also 97 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: described a post mortem exam that revealed an inner ear 98 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: hemorrhage in a patient who had experienced vertigo. By a 99 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: little later in the nineteenth century, doctors had also started 100 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: connecting the inner ear to motion sickness. In eighteen eighty one, 101 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: a group of doctors published an article called the Pathology 102 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: of Sea Sickness in the Lancet. This article set, in 103 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: part quote, our bodies are endowed with what may be 104 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: termed a supplementary special sense, quite independent of, but at 105 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: the same time in the closest alliance with our other 106 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: special senses, the function of which is to determine the 107 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: position of the head in space, and to govern and 108 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: direct the aesthetico kinetic mechanism by which is maintained the 109 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 1: equal librium of the body. This faculty of equilibrium appears 110 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: to be more or less connected with the cerebellum, the 111 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: optic lobes, and possibly with other parts of the nervous organization, 112 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: but beyond doubt its principal seat is in the semi 113 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: circular canals of the internal ear, which may, for practical 114 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: purposes be regarded as the organs of equilibration. While this 115 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: paper definitely didn't have everything about motion sickness right, and 116 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: in fact it's not entirely understood even today, it did 117 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: correctly note that the inner ear was involved. It also 118 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: noted a parallel between motion sickness and labyrinthine vertigo, or 119 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: a sense of dizziness brought on by a disturbance in 120 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: the pressure inside the labyrinth of the ear. One of 121 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: the first people to publish research on a connection between 122 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: deafness and immunity to dizziness was Dr William James of Cambridge, Massachusetts, 123 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: whose paper The Sense of Dizziness and Deaf Mutes appeared 124 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: in the American Journal of Autology in eighteen eighty two. 125 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: According to James, at that point, it was already well 126 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: established that the semi circular canals were not organs of hearing, 127 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: but they quote served to convey to us the feeling 128 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: of movement of our head through space, a feeling which, 129 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: when very intensely excited, passes into that of vertigo or dizziness. 130 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: James suggested that schools for the deaf could be a 131 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: place to study whether deaf people were more likely to 132 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: be immune to dizziness. James examined some people himself, and 133 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: he also relied on reports from his colleagues. Altogether, they 134 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: examined five hundred nineteen deaf people basically by having them 135 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: spin around with their head in a variety of positions. 136 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: They found one six of their subjects were totally immune 137 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: to dizziness, and one thirty four became only slightly dizzy, 138 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: the other one did become dizzy, and a couple of 139 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: them even seemed unusually susceptible to dizziness. James also compared 140 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: this to two hundred hearing students and instructors at Harvard 141 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: College and found only one among that group who did 142 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: not experience dizziness. I really love the idea of just 143 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: making a whole bunch of Harvard people spin around untill 144 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: keep spinning, keep spinning it. Of course, James would not 145 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: have been the first person to observe that many deaf 146 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: people were immune to dizziness. The first people to make 147 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: that observation would have been deaf people themselves, but this 148 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: was the result that he expected from his research. He 149 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: noted that although more research was needed, his results backed 150 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: up the idea that the semi circular canals were organs 151 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: of balance rather than of hearing, and that whether a 152 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: deaf person was immune to dizziness depended on whether the 153 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: cause of their death fness had affected their semicircular canals 154 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: as well. James also grasped that other factors might also 155 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: affect a person's equilibrium, like what they could see and 156 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: their perception of gravity. He asked thirty three people who 157 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: either did not get dizzy or got only slightly dizzy, 158 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: to dive underwater with their eyes closed. He expected them 159 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: to report that this was very disorienting and that they 160 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: couldn't tell up from down or find their way to 161 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: the surface unless they opened their eyes. But that was 162 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: true of only fifteen out of the thirty three people. Yeah, 163 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: that's still a significant number, but it wasn't as across 164 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: the board as you might have thought it would be. 165 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: Researchers kept studying the connections among hearing and balance and 166 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: dizziness and motion sickness in the decades that followed. For example, 167 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen nine, arna Axon Holberry published experimental studies of 168 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: the eliciting mechanism of sea sickness. He found that dogs 169 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: became motions if they were hoisted up and down by 170 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: a crane but then they seemed immune to that after 171 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: having their labyrinths removed. Other people built on this research, 172 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: eventually bringing us to the nineteen fifties and the research 173 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: that involved the galad At eleven. We're going to talk 174 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: more about that after a sponsor break. The Galada eleven 175 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: were part of the Vestibular Research program. This was a 176 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: joint project between NASA and the US Naval Aviation Medical 177 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: Center in Pensacola, Florida. Now that's known as the Naval 178 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: Aerospace Medical Institute. Since most of the Galada recruits were 179 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: college students and professors, some of them are grad students, 180 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: most of this work took place during their summer or 181 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: winter breaks. They got a perd M to cover their expenses. 182 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: But the Galada eleven weren't actually the first people to 183 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: be part of the research. We mentioned Robert Greenman earlier, 184 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: but before him, there was Pauline Hicks. Robert Greenman's letters 185 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: suggest that she was quote the original Pensacola guinea pig, 186 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: and that both of them were involved in research in 187 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: Pensacola in the early nineteen fifties. As we mentioned earlier, 188 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: this research was led by Dr Ashton Grabul. He had 189 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: originally trained as a cardiologist before joining the Naval Aviation 190 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: Medical Center during World War Two to study how factors 191 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: like fatigue and cardiovascular health affected military pilots. This eventually 192 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: grew into research connected to the space program and how 193 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: humans could react and adapt to space travel. Greenman's early 194 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: time in NASA's research included spending days at a stretch 195 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: in a slowly rotating room and carrying out various tasks 196 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: that were meant to measure how he was adapting to 197 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: that continual rotation. Some of them were things like throwing darts. 198 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: One of them the thing that involved setting a series 199 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: of dials to the correct positions, and he had to 200 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: reach like he had to reach way behind him and 201 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: way down and way over to the side. And as 202 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: a person who was is like, I'm prone to motion sickness, 203 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: the idea of doing all that head movements in a 204 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: slowly rotating room, I felt gross just thinking about it. 205 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: Um this was not an issue for Greenman at all, 206 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: though sometimes he was used as a control in experiments 207 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: on men who had working vestibular systems because they often 208 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: became very motionsick over the course of the experiment, and 209 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: he did not his immunity to motion sickness also meant 210 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: that sometimes he was the person administering the tests to 211 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: the other subjects in the room, doing everything from recording 212 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: how well they threw those darts to administering their electric cardiograms. 213 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: During these early years the research, Greenman also spent time 214 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: in the Human Disorientation device, which could move a person 215 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: around a horizontal or vertical axis, or both simultaneously. In 216 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty Greenman and Hicks were flown to New York 217 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: City where they made repeated trips on the express elevator 218 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: at the Empire State Building. That sounds so fun to me, 219 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: I would also feel gross. Uh. In nineteen sixty one, 220 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: Grabial and a team of researchers went to Galadet to 221 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: try to recruit more participants for the vestibular research program. 222 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: Greenman was a Galudet alumnus, and this may have been 223 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: at his suggestion, but since Galadet was the only university 224 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: for the death, it also would have been a logical 225 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: place to recruit a group of adult men without working 226 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: vestibular systems. They also they needed people who could communicate 227 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: with researchers, and so picking people who had some college 228 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: education or a college degree was another important part of this. 229 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: Researchers started with a group of about one men, both 230 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: students and faculty, who had become deaf after having meningitis 231 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: as children. Then they conducted tests to confirm which of 232 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: them had functioning vestibular systems. Research reports described the people 233 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: who did not as having a labyrinthing defect and sometimes 234 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: describe the people as labyrinthine defectives. This is a term 235 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: that still shows up in research, but for the purpose 236 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: of this episode, we're going to stick to calling the 237 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: two groups of participants deaf and hearing. Yeah, calling somebody 238 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: a defective is not great. Just kind of get your 239 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: your yuck response up for sure. Yeah yeah. Two of 240 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: the surviving members gave an oral history of you in 241 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: in that will mention again at the end of the show, 242 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: and one of them was like, couldn't they have found 243 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: a better word? That just sounds sounds kind of insulting. Uh. 244 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: These tests also, they could be unpleasant. One of them 245 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: is called the color stimulation or caloric reflex test. This 246 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: involves irrigating a person's ear canal with warm or cold water, 247 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: and if a person's vestibular system and other parts of 248 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: the ear anatomy are working. Even a minor change in 249 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: the temperature of the water can cause involuntary eye movements 250 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: called nastagmus, as well as a feeling of motion, sickness, 251 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: or vertigo. If none of that happens, it's an indication 252 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: that these organs are not working. The water used in 253 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: these tests could be extremely cold. They were just they 254 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: were trying to verify that people had no vestibular function 255 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: at all, and so they would go to way more 256 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: extreme temperatures than a medical test today might. Uh. And 257 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: some of the participants described that water as just horribly painful. Yeah, 258 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: this test sense awful to me. That's like the one 259 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: where all of my anxiety goes no, no, no no, no, 260 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: don't do that. Yeah. Yeah, well, and it's I would say, 261 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: people I know who have had to have have this 262 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,119 Speaker 1: test for whatever reason have described it as pretty unpleasant. 263 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,479 Speaker 1: But like the typically in most medical tests to day, 264 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: they're not using water that's as cold as they were 265 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: using in this screening process. Gramil eventually selected a group 266 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: of ten men who met the research criteria. Harold Domick, 267 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: Baron Gulac, Raymond Harper, Gerald Jordan's, Harry Larson, David Myers, 268 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,479 Speaker 1: Donald Peterson, Raymond Piper, Alvin Steele, and John Zaccutney. They 269 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: were between the ages of twenty five and forty eight, 270 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: and seven of them were current students. They plus Robert Greenman, 271 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: formed what has more recently become known as the gallot 272 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: At eleven. Another Gallutet student, James Bisher, also participated in 273 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: some tests in nineteen sixty five. It also seems as 274 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: though there were also other participants from time to time, 275 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: including Polly Hicks, although their participation is not as well 276 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: documented the galut At eleven. As we just said, we're 277 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: recruited in nineteen six one. That is the same year 278 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: human beings first went into space, So a lot was 279 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: still totally unknown about how space travel would affect the 280 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: human body and how the human body would adapt to 281 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: being in space. One thing that seemed really certain was 282 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: that people were likely to experience motion sickness during space travel, 283 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: and motion sickness in space could present a really serious problem, 284 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: both from being ill and from being able to do 285 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: your job in a situation where there's not a lot 286 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: of room for error. Before this point, medical science had 287 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: viewed motion sickness mostly as an annoying inconvenience, but the 288 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: possibility of human space travel turned it into a subject 289 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: that warranted in depth study. This work was also connected 290 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: to the development of drugs to prevent motion sickness. The 291 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: vestibular research program wasn't only about motion sickness, though. That 292 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: same sense of equilibrium that plays a part in motion 293 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: sickness also plays a part in balance and coordination, so 294 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: everything from orienting the body in space to being able 295 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: to reach for and press the correct button on a 296 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: control panel while essentially waitless. So researchers were trying to 297 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: figure out how exactly the vestibular system connected to all 298 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: of that, and what it took for the human body 299 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: to compensate for a lack of gravitation cues or the 300 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: ongoing rotation that might provide a sense of artificial gravity. 301 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: In addition to these kinds of questions, the galad At 302 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: eleven immunity to motion sickness also meant that they could 303 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: tolerate tests that most hearing people could not, and that 304 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: gave NASA and the Navy a broader range of data 305 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: to work with. And the words of Harry Larson, one 306 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: of the galat At eleven quote, we were different in 307 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: a way they needed. Between nineteen sixty one and nineteen 308 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: sixty eight, the galad At eleven participated in a lot 309 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 1: of research. They documented their subjective experiences and researchers tested 310 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: their blood and urine, monitored their blood pressure and pulse, 311 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: recorded their eye movements, recorded the details of how they 312 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: performed various tasks, and took other measurements. Robert Greenman's letters 313 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: described the use of threads on the eyes as part 314 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: of the eye movement studies. It is not entirely clear 315 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: how this was done, but it sure sounds uncomfortable. That 316 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: makes my my skin heave about a little bit. Yeah, 317 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: that's That's not something that was elucidated in any of 318 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: the research reports that I read. Even though researchers had 319 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: intentionally recruited a group of eleven deaf people for this research, 320 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: NASA and the US Naval Aviation Medical Center didn't provide 321 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: sign language interpreters for them. If hearing friends or family 322 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: members visited and also knew how to sign, sometimes they 323 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: would interpret the researchers instructions. Otherwise, though researchers gave the 324 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: deaf subjects brief instructions and writing and any other communication 325 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: about the test also happened in writing participants. Communication with 326 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: friends and family members back home also usually happened through writing. 327 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: The teletypewriter or t t Y also called a t 328 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: d D or telecommunications device for the death, made phone 329 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: calls more accessible to deaf people, but that was not 330 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: invented until nineteen sixty four, when this research had been 331 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,239 Speaker 1: already going on for a few years. Here are some 332 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: examples of the kinds of research this group was part of, 333 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: starting with some that took place on airplanes. First flight 334 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: stress researchers knew that being on an airplane doing all 335 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 1: kinds of wild maneuvers was stressful, and they could measure 336 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: this by looking for stress hormones in people's urine after flights. 337 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: But was that also true of people who didn't have 338 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: a working vestibular system and didn't experience motion sickness. One 339 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: experiment that looked at this question involved seventeen total subjects, 340 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: six who had been recruited from Galladet and eleven who 341 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: were serving in the navy. Researchers first tested the eleven 342 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: hearing participants to make sure their vestibular systems were functioning, 343 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: and then they put all seventeen through a dramatic series 344 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: of in flight maneuvers. Here's how those maneuvers are described 345 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: in the research report. Quote take off and climb to 346 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: twelve thousand feet, three sixty degree turn at sixty degree 347 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: bank to left and right, two point zero to two 348 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: point five g wing over to left and right, three 349 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: aileron rolls to the left barrel, roll to the left 350 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: and right, three aileron rolls to the left barrel, roll 351 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: to the left and right, and a split s coming 352 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: out at approximately five thousand feet at four g's. The 353 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: sequence was carried out in a continuous manner, so that 354 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: the aircraft was in a straight and of all flight 355 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: for only very short periods of time. If at the 356 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: end of the first sequence the subject was ill, the 357 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: aerobatics were discontinued and the pilot returned the plane to 358 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: the field. If vomiting was not eminent, the pilot climbed 359 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: back to twelve thousand feet and repeated the same procedure. 360 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: These two sequences required approximately thirty minutes. I just want 361 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: to note here that a whole page of the research 362 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: report detailing this is an illustration of a tiny airplane 363 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: doing all of these maneuvers, and I found it incredibly charming. 364 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: The airplane looks like a like a little child's drawing 365 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: of an airplane. Almost it looks like something that would 366 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: be in a picture book, not something that would be 367 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: flying in these sorts of dramatic maneuvers. As expected, none 368 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: of the deaf men reported motion sickness during the flight, 369 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: and most of the hearing participants did. In a couple 370 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: of cases, the flight had to be stopped because hearing 371 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: participants became ill. Afterward, the researchers tested the participants urine 372 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: and found that the eleven people with working vestibular systems 373 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: had much higher levels of stress hormones than the other six, 374 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: but their levels of europepsin, which is a hormone associated 375 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: with digestive disorders, was the same. Researchers also tested the 376 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: participants urine on days when there was no flight, just 377 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: to make sure the differences they found were not from 378 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: other causes. On the non flight days, their stress hormone 379 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: levels were about the same. It was kind of ruling 380 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: out that there was some digestive involvement in what was happening. 381 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: Other experiments involved parabolic flights, also called zero G flights, 382 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: for their brief period of perceived weightlessness. Claims used for 383 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: flights like these are often called the vomit comet. One 384 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: parabolic flight study in nineteen sixty four was meant to 385 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: assess the death participants susceptibility to motion sickness as compared 386 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: to hearing people. The hearing people in this study were 387 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: nine medical students and ten enlisted men who had been 388 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: assigned to the Naval School of Aviation Medicine as research subjects. Unsurprisingly, 389 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: based on what was already known at the time, the 390 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: six members of the galad At eleven who participated experienced 391 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: no motion sickness and also seemed to genuinely enjoy the flight. 392 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: Well over half of the hearing subjects experienced some degree 393 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: of motion sickness, with the student's reactions seeming to be 394 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: more extreme than the enlisted men's. By this point in 395 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: the space race, human beings had been in orbit around 396 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: the Earth, and some of them had reported feeling motion 397 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: sickness while others had not, and so that was something 398 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: researchers were trying to understand through experiments like this one, 399 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: Like why did some people feel bad and other people 400 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: were fine? Researchers concluded that this was related to vestibular function, 401 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: but also that some people with functioning vestibular systems are 402 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: more resist stan to motion sickness, where they can adapt 403 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: to repeated exposure, like the enlisted men who had been 404 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: in those kinds of movement situations more often UH have 405 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: had more resistance to it. And we're going to get 406 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: to some research that did not involve airplanes after we 407 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: first take another quick sponsor break. Earlier in the episode, 408 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: we mentioned that Robert Greenman had spent days in a 409 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: slow rotating room as part of all of this research. 410 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: Other members of the gallut At eleven did this as well, 411 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: and so for a little bit more detail about what 412 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: this was about. As the name suggests, the pencacolist low 413 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: rotation room is an enclosed room that rotates around an axis. 414 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: The speed of that can vary based on the experiment 415 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: that's going on, including changing over the course of the experiment. 416 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: Research in this room could help predict how astronauts would 417 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: adapt to a continually moving environment, including if rotating platforms 418 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: are being used to simulate gravity in a space station. 419 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: The gallant At elevens work in the slow rotation room 420 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: helped researchers understand how the vestibular system was connected to 421 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: all of this. In one experiment, for deaf subjects and 422 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: four hearing subjects each spent twelve consecutive days living in 423 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: the rotation room with it rotating at ten revolutions per minute. 424 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: The four death subjects had been recruited from Galladet and 425 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: the four hearing subjects were recent Naval Academy graduates who 426 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: were waiting to receive assignments as student aviators. This is 427 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: the windowless room, and it was outfitted with everything that 428 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: participants would need to live, including toilets and showers, a kitchen, 429 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: and seating areas. They slept with their heads towards the 430 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: center of the room, and the room stopped only to 431 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: allow researchers to enter to on tests or to drop 432 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: off supplies at the start of the day. Anytime the 433 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: room was stopped, the participants had to hold still. They 434 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: didn't want to interrupt or affect their body's acclamation to 435 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: the room. In this particular experiment, participants had their balance 436 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: tested by walking heel to toe on a rail like 437 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: a balanced beam, and they also stood heel of one 438 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,959 Speaker 1: foot to toe of the other with their arms folded 439 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: over their chests. They did this standing test with their 440 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: eyes open and with their eyes closed. Although the deaf 441 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: participants in this experiment were immune to the motion sickness 442 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: that could make it really unpleasant. For hearing participants, these 443 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: particular tasks were inherently challenging for them. Since their vestibular 444 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: systems weren't providing the feedback to help them keep their balance, 445 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: many of them had trouble. This is the case with 446 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people who have vestibular issues. This was 447 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: especially true when they had their eyes closed, since their 448 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: bodies had adapted to using visual cues to help them 449 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: maintain their balance. So this experiment was exploring the differences 450 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,479 Speaker 1: and how people adapted to the rotating room depending on 451 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: the state of their vestibular system. It also raised some 452 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: questions about how other appropri receptive systems in the body 453 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: might be involved in balance. One of the most dramatic 454 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: experiments involving the Galadat eleven took place at sea in 455 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. Participants were flown to Nova Scotia and 456 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: from there they took a ship called the m S. 457 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: Miquelon to the island of Saint Pierre about two hundred 458 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: miles away. The plan was to spend a few rest 459 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: days on Saint Pierre. If the trip to the island 460 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: was a stormy one, they would be waiting for clear weather, 461 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: and if it had been clear, they would be waiting 462 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: for a storm. The m S. Miquelon was a supply ship. 463 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: It was around bottomed boats, narrow and light and shallow 464 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: in the draft, and it also had no stabilization gear. 465 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: And the words of the research report on this experiment quote, 466 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: when underway, these unusual dimensions occasioned a great deal of role. 467 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: But the ship was seaworthy. Um that's a little asterisk. 468 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: That's clarified what it meant by seaworthy. And it was 469 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: sort of like it's never sank, uh, but with more 470 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: detail to add to that. This stretch of the North 471 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: Atlantic between Halifax and Sampierre was notoriously prone to extreme storms, 472 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: and so the idea here was to take the death 473 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: and hearing research subjects on an innately unstable boat in 474 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: very choppy seas. Again, in the words of the research report, quote, 475 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 1: heavy seas are routine during the winter months, and on 476 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: some crossings even the ship's crew have reported seasickness. The 477 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: trip out was a calm one, so they waited for 478 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: a storm on the way back. The researchers hypothesis was 479 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: that in these conditions, of the twenty hearing test subjects 480 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: on the ship would experience motion sickness, but none of 481 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: the ten deaf subjects would. On the trip back, none 482 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: of the ten deaf men became motion sick, although one 483 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: did report feeling a little gassy and another reported a 484 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: quote constriction in the throat and slight nausea that the 485 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: researchers determined was not motion related. Of the twenty hearing participants, 486 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: fifteen threw up and five had moderate or severe malaise. 487 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: Nine of these men had also been described as highly 488 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: resistant to motion sickness based on their backgrounds. Two of 489 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: them were senior flight surgeons, two had retired from the Navy, 490 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: three were regular research subjects in vestibular studies, and one 491 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: had been an experimenter in the slow rotation room. In 492 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: interviews given in more recent years, members of the gallat 493 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: At eleven have described this as an adventure in which 494 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: they were hanging out and playing cards and eating while 495 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: the hearing participants were ill um One of them did 496 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: not that the cards kept falling off the table because 497 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: the role of the ship was so much. Baron Gulac 498 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: described the hearing participants getting sicker when they saw that 499 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: the deaf participants were eating, but as sort of jovial 500 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: as that sounds, this was also an ordeal. It was 501 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: winter and there was frozen spray all over the exterior 502 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: of the ship. As the researchers described it quote, the 503 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: sea condition was very rough. Waves were estimated at forty 504 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: feet and these produced an estimated roll of forty plus degrees. 505 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: The captain was requested to rate the sea state on 506 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: a ten point scale, using the first trip as one 507 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: the mildest and to consider ten the most severe. In 508 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: his experience, this trip was assigned seven. According to the researchers. 509 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: At some points all of the deaf participants and most 510 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 1: of the hearing participants reported being anxious or afraid. Initially, 511 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: this experiment was meant to look at some basic questions 512 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: beyond just did people get sea sick or not, But 513 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: as it was described in the research report quote, measurement 514 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: of cardiovascular changes, specifically orthostatic hypotension were intended. But we're 515 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: not done because the experimenters became incapacitated. The linear and 516 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: angular accelerations of the craft were also to be measured 517 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: at certain intervals, and these experimenters too became incapacitated. So, 518 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: in addition to all the hearing subjects of this research, 519 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: the experimenters themselves also having a lot of motion sickness. 520 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: The researchers did, however, conclude that even though it can 521 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: seem like anxiety has triggered a person's motion sickness, it 522 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: didn't appear that anxiety by itself was enough, because all 523 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: of the deaf participants reported feeling anxious, but none of 524 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: them became seasick. These are just a few examples of 525 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: the types of experiments that the Galada eleven were part of. 526 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,959 Speaker 1: Over the course of about a decade, NASA hosted a 527 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: whole series of symposia on the role of vestibular organs 528 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: in space starting in nineteen sixty five, where researchers from 529 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: around the world presented this another research, and the researchers 530 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: seemed to have viewed the galut At elevens participation as 531 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: special and appreciated. In every research report that Tracy read, 532 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: the researchers thank the quote labyrinthine defective participants, but medical students, 533 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: enlisted personnel, and other hearing participants did not receive similar things. 534 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: The galad At elevens participation in this research contributed to 535 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: things like the development of antimotion sickness drugs, space suit design, 536 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: and the determination of safe flight parameters for spacecraft like 537 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: how many g's could people be subjected to, and it 538 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: also had applications well beyond the space program. A range 539 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: of illnesses and injuries can affect a person's vestibular function, 540 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: as can just the process of aging. Research into things 541 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 1: like balance and equilibrium and the vestibular system continues today, 542 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: including at the Ashton Grabial Spatial Orientation Laboratory at Brandeis 543 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: University in Waltham, Massachusetts. The Galada elevens participation in this 544 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: research was not a secret. There were various articles about 545 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: it in Penci Coola newspapers in the nineteen sixties, but 546 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: there hasn't really been much formal acknowledgement of it by 547 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: NASA until very recently. Members of the Galada eleven who 548 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: have been interviewed in more recent years have talked about 549 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: seeing it as a way to serve their country. For example, 550 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: in an interview with the Washington Post, Baron Gulac talked 551 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,240 Speaker 1: about being unable to join the military because he was deaf. 552 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: Deaf people still cannot enlist in the U S military, 553 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 1: and deaf people also could not be astronauts. The first 554 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: wave of astronaut candidates in the US were all military 555 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: test pilots and had to be quote in excellent physical condition, 556 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 1: which were criteria that excluded deaf people. I can't read 557 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: the minds of all the researchers, but based on the 558 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: things that they wrote down, it doesn't seem like it 559 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: ever occurred to anybody to be like, hey, it seems 560 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: like there are some uniquely suited to space attributes of 561 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: our deaf research candidates. Maybe we should revisit some of 562 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: these criteria. Uh. And at this point, space is still 563 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: largely inaccessible to deaf people and to disabled people more generally. 564 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,760 Speaker 1: That has barely started to shift in more recent years, 565 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: largely through disabled people's own advocacy and also through the 566 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: rise of commercial space flight. Sort of similar to how 567 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: the shift in just air travel from like a largely 568 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: military experience to something that regular civilian people could be 569 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: participating in led to some shifts and who could fly 570 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: and who could become a pilot, although to be super 571 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: super clear, there's still an enormous way to go in 572 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: terms of accessibility of air travel. SpaceX is inspiration for 573 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: mission involved four civilian crew members. It was the first 574 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: human space flight to orbit the Earth with only private 575 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,879 Speaker 1: citizens on board. One was Hailey Arsenal, who has an 576 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: internal prosthesis essentially a prosthetic bone. Arsenal is the first 577 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: person with a prosthesis to go to space, and one 578 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: of the candidates for that mission who wasn't ultimately selected 579 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: to go was Galludet graduate Julia Alaska's. In one, the 580 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: European Space Agency launched its Pair Astronaut Feasibility Project, which 581 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,439 Speaker 1: is exploring the inclusion of astronauts with a specific set 582 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: of physical differences that previously would have excluded them from consideration. 583 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 1: These are a significant difference in leg length, a height 584 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: of under one thirty centimeters which is four ft three inches, 585 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: and a quote lower limb deficiency in other words, if 586 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: one or both of a person's legs stop at the 587 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: knee or at the ankle. And as we referenced at 588 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: the top of the show. In October of one, there 589 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: was a parabolic flight that had twelve disability ambassadors on 590 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: board that took place as part of Mission astro Access. 591 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: Mission astro Access describes itself as quote a project dedicated 592 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,919 Speaker 1: to promoting disability inclusion in space by paving the way 593 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: for disabled astronauts in stem by launching disabled scientists, veterans, students, athletes, 594 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: and artists on parabolic flights with the Zero Gravity Corporation 595 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: zero G as the first step in a progression towards 596 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: flying a diverse range of people to space. So this 597 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: flight took place on Zero Gravity Corporation's G Force one, 598 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: and its participants included death, blind, and low vision people 599 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: as well as people with disabilities that affect their mobility. 600 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: These weren't the first disabled people ever to go on 601 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: a parabolic flight. As one example, the late Stephen Hawking, 602 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: who had a LS did a zero D flight in 603 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: two thousand seven. Radio Lamb covered this flight in the 604 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 1: episode that Tracy mentioned at the beginning of the show Today. 605 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: Reporter Andrew Leland was on the flight, and afterward Tracy 606 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: saw some conversations between him and Damien Williams, who is 607 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,879 Speaker 1: a PhD candidate whose work is focused on science, technology, 608 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 1: and society. Williams praised Leland for his work, while also 609 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,240 Speaker 1: noting that he wished the episode had discussed the gallad 610 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: at eleven, and Leland replied that so much material had 611 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: to be cut, but that the story of the Galada 612 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: eleven hurt the most and that is what inspired her 613 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,720 Speaker 1: to research today's episode. Yeah, that conversation happened on Twitter. Also, 614 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 1: Radio Lab has taken more steps to make this episode. Again, 615 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: it was titled the Right Stuff Accessible than I think 616 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: I've ever seen, particularly in a podcast that as a 617 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: whole was not something that was conceived and produced by 618 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: and for disabled people. So not just a transcript but 619 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: also a brailready file and a video with an a 620 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: s L enter or we do have a transcript of 621 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: this episode of our show, and we will have the 622 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: link to it in the episode description for everybody to 623 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: be able to access. Also, there are several places where 624 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: you can find these men talking about their experiences in 625 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: this research in their own words. Robert Greenman died in 626 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, but his son donated a lot of his 627 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: letters describing these experiments to Galludet University. Selections are printed 628 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: as part of an article called Deaf Perspective Inside View 629 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,760 Speaker 1: of early space research, which appeared in the journal quest 630 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: the History of Space Flight Quarterly. Harry Larson and David 631 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: Meyers were also part of a presentation called galut At 632 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: eleven The Deaf Right Stuff at Space Center Houston, and 633 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: that is available on Facebook and YouTube and Space Center 634 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: Houston's website. Yeah, the two of them also recorded an 635 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: oral history through the NASA Administrator's Oral History Project, and 636 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: that's available through NASA as well. I found that just 637 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: this morning. It was like cool more stuff. I love it. Um. 638 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: Do you also have listener mail today? I do. This 639 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: is from Jennifer. Jennifer wrote, Hi, Tracy and Holly. I 640 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: had planned an epic trip for my fiftieth birthday in 641 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: to South Georgia Island. Needless to say, it was delayed 642 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: over and over due to COVID nineteen. I finally took 643 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: the trip last month March. I was standing at Peggotty 644 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: Bluff with an archaeologist at Shackleton's campsite the day the 645 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: Endurance was located and filmed. Now, I've read Endurance, and 646 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: I respect Shackleton's leadership, skills and luck, but I really 647 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: went on this trip to see King penguin's of course, 648 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: it was a very shackleton ey trip. Our first stop 649 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: was grit Vikin where we visited Shackleton's grave, but we 650 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: also visited King hack On Bay, Peggotty Bluff, Cave Cove 651 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: for the Eighth, the two Young Albatross, the waterfall, Shackleton's 652 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: slid down and of Strongness to round it out. Oh, 653 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: and so many king penguins, which are high in vitamin C. 654 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: If you eat penguins you will not get scurvy, so 655 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: I am told. Anyway. Sending some photos and also the 656 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: obligatory black cat photos of my besties kiddies, Rickets and Poe. 657 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: You are one of my favorite podcasts. I listened to 658 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,439 Speaker 1: you while I'm gardening and doing other household chores. Keep 659 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: it up, Jennifer, Rickets and Poh, thank you so much, 660 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: Jennifer for these pictures and this email. I can totally 661 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: understand how, um a trip that was meant to be 662 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: about penguins but also somewhere that had all this Shackleton 663 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: stuff would become very shackletony. Also, yes, penguins are pretty 664 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: high environment vitamin C. A lot of meats are. You 665 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: can't cook them too much though, because that will if 666 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: you cook them too much, vitamin C will break down. 667 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: So one of the ways that they were able to 668 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: avoid scurvy was that they were eating like this really 669 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: fresh meat that they had just hunted themselves, um, and 670 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: then not cooking it to death. So, if you would 671 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: like to write to us about this or another podcast 672 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: where history podcast that i heart radio dot com. We're 673 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: all over social media and miss in history. That's where 674 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 1: you'll find our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and Instagram. And you 675 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: can subscribe to our show on the I heart radio 676 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:32,720 Speaker 1: app and anywhere else you'd like to get podcasts. Stuff 677 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: You Missed in History Class is a production of I 678 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit 679 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 680 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.