Speaker 1: Pushkin for hit Boy, It's All in a Name, Niggas
Speaker 1: in Paris by Jay Z and Kanye West, Sika Mode
Speaker 1: by Travis Scott, Thick by Beyonce from her newest album Renaissance,
Speaker 1: as well as songs from Frank Ocean, Rihanna, Kendrick Lamar,
Speaker 1: and so many more. Hit Boy's production has powered some
Speaker 1: of the biggest hits off the best projects over the
Speaker 1: last decade, which makes it all the more remarkable that
Speaker 1: his actual crowning achievement has nothing at all to do
Speaker 1: with radio hits or the latest artists. But the thing
Speaker 1: that ensures hit Boy's enshrinement and whatever hall of fame
Speaker 1: exists twenty thirty years from now is dropping back to
Speaker 1: back to back masterpieces with one of rap's most legendary figures,
Speaker 1: Nas Nas just won his first Grammy a few years
Speaker 1: back from his album King's Disease, a project that was
Speaker 1: fully produced by hit Boy. Since then, they've gone on
Speaker 1: to release together KD two, Magic and KD three, each
Speaker 1: album better than the last. And as if all of
Speaker 1: that in the span of a few years wasn't enough,
Speaker 1: hit Boys also just released a new solo album as
Speaker 1: a producer, rapper called Surf or Drown. I talked to
Speaker 1: hit Boy on today's Broken Record about his new solo project,
Speaker 1: how he's recently just introduced a new but old piece
Speaker 1: of equipment into his beat making process, about growing up
Speaker 1: in the ie just east of Los Angeles, and what
Speaker 1: he learned from having an uncle in Troop, one of
Speaker 1: the smoothest R and B groups of the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 1: This is Broken Record liner notes for the Digital Age.
Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with hit Boy. How
Speaker 1: you doing today, man, solid man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just on the move as usual. Yeah, you're busy,
Speaker 2: It's non stop.
Speaker 1: How you keeping up? Man?
Speaker 2: I don't even know between being a dad and doing this.
Speaker 2: It's just like you gotta just go push yourself. Man,
Speaker 2: don't get burnt out like some I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just like just go.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you feel like you're in a creative zenith,
Speaker 1: like at the top of your creative game at the moment, Yeah.
Speaker 2: For sure, I'm taking it there. I'm definitely like. It's
Speaker 2: just like I always wanted to be able to just
Speaker 2: tap in and make pretty much any style of beat
Speaker 2: that I wanted to at any given moment, and that's
Speaker 2: like where I'm at now, Like I could just somebody
Speaker 2: need a certain sound, or if I'm hearing something, I
Speaker 2: could really like execute it a lot more than earlier
Speaker 2: in my career. So that's exciting.
Speaker 1: But that was a goal early in the career.
Speaker 2: Still, yeah, just like you know, I would get to
Speaker 2: a certain point on my production and then kind of
Speaker 2: get just stumped, don't what to do next. But now
Speaker 2: it's like I made so many beats, so many songs,
Speaker 2: it's just coming to me.
Speaker 1: Can you think of something recently where before you might
Speaker 1: have gotten stumped but you were able to move it forward.
Speaker 2: Just beats in general, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 2: can't think of a specific thing, but now and now
Speaker 2: I also understand that you can build things over time.
Speaker 2: They like before, like I used to overcrowd my beats,
Speaker 2: and artists used to tell me, like, man, the beats
Speaker 2: they dope. But at the same time, I don't know
Speaker 2: where I could fit in because it's so much instrumentation,
Speaker 2: a lot going on. So I just scaled it back
Speaker 2: and now it's like, Okay, I can get a voice
Speaker 2: on there that I could get inspired again and add
Speaker 2: another sound and a breakdown and just something that makes sense.
Speaker 1: At the right sound. Do you think I do that
Speaker 1: your beats were maybe crowded for certain people before. Do
Speaker 1: you think that maybe goes back to just when you
Speaker 1: were just making beats just for yourself, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2: For sure, definitely, you know. I mean I always made
Speaker 2: beats with the intention of getting somebody on them, even
Speaker 2: if it was just myself, because I was writing before
Speaker 2: when you're learning to make beats, yeah, because I was
Speaker 2: making songs before I was making beats. So I was
Speaker 2: like trying to find something that made sense for me
Speaker 2: or whoever else to get on, you know, but I
Speaker 2: would so.
Speaker 1: You used to make a beats for you to get on. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're tired of just wrapping over instrumentals from other people.
Speaker 2: I was in a group with a kid and he
Speaker 2: made all the beats at first, so we did like
Speaker 2: a few projects together. I'm like fourteen, fifteen years old,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So by the time I
Speaker 2: turned sixteen, we had made a couple of projects and
Speaker 2: I just start playing with the fl studio at his
Speaker 2: crib and was like, Yo, this is really like fun.
Speaker 2: It's like a video game for me. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: just was like I just took a real liking to
Speaker 2: it and kept pushing with it.
Speaker 1: Did you do anything musically growing up and playing the
Speaker 1: instruments or nah?
Speaker 2: But I was around a lot of music. Yeah. My
Speaker 2: uncle Rodney B was in a group called Troop, And
Speaker 2: I just saw the whole lifestyle, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: them being in the studio video shoots, the style, like
Speaker 2: the music, the dance moves like it just the R
Speaker 2: and B group. Yeah yeah, yeah, my uncle and my
Speaker 2: my grandma started the group. She was managing them up
Speaker 2: until they got signed, and like she really whipped them
Speaker 2: into shape to like really like be focused on that level.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: She just always had a passion for music herself, and
Speaker 2: well my uncle started getting to a certain age, she
Speaker 2: just was like, you need to start a group, and
Speaker 2: they started a group and they really went and had
Speaker 2: a couple number ones and had some success.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you? Growing up? Seeing that crazy?
Speaker 2: It got me like on a focused level, I'm on now,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like I always just seen
Speaker 2: like they it was doing it on a real level.
Speaker 2: So I seen it. I seen everything, the whole lifestyle,
Speaker 2: and I just was intrigued.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for you at that time. Was hip hop the
Speaker 1: thing where you were locked in on hip hop? Or
Speaker 1: did you see that maybe even.
Speaker 2: Think like, yeah, I mean what my uncle played all
Speaker 2: type of music. So I heard Nwa, I heard Snoop,
Speaker 2: I heard ice Cube, I heard just like all the
Speaker 2: West Coast, you know, hip hop, but it was a
Speaker 2: lot of R and B, B and played too, because
Speaker 2: there was an R and B group. So just like
Speaker 2: hearing them chord changes and just like really seeing the
Speaker 2: musicality in it. That's kind of like what was hitting me.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know exactly what it was, but it
Speaker 2: was the emotion of the coors and the emotion of
Speaker 2: the drum patterns and the groove and the feeling that
Speaker 2: just was like I was downloading into my DNA and
Speaker 2: downloading that DNA.
Speaker 1: And so now that you're making music, you started to
Speaker 1: realize the things that you're attracted to and making music.
Speaker 2: Somewhat come from that. Oh yeah, change for sure. I
Speaker 2: mean me being able to do a music soul child album.
Speaker 2: We just dropped Victims and Villains. That's literally because my
Speaker 2: uncle used to play his first album over and over
Speaker 2: and over, so I just like already knew kind of
Speaker 2: where to take it, what I would want to hear
Speaker 2: personally with just updating it to where it's at now.
Speaker 2: But saw a lot of time when I'm making music,
Speaker 2: I just like tap into that original emotion that I
Speaker 2: would feel before I knew what it was.
Speaker 1: What was your first meeting with music?
Speaker 2: Like? It was dope because he already had reached out
Speaker 2: telling me he loved what I was doing with knaves, so.
Speaker 1: He just showed what NAS project had come at that
Speaker 1: point when he reached out.
Speaker 2: Magic, it was all all Katie won KT two and
Speaker 2: Magic had come out, not KT three yet. Matter of fact, no,
Speaker 2: Magic hadn't even come out. Magic was about to come out.
Speaker 2: And because I remember playing him some of the music
Speaker 2: and he was just like, Yo, this is crazy. Nobody
Speaker 2: even knew he was doing it. But uh, when he
Speaker 2: pulled up, it just was respect, you know. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I just had so many beats that fit into where
Speaker 2: he wanted to go. It kind of was like an
Speaker 2: easy process.
Speaker 1: But the intention wasn't necessarily to do a full record
Speaker 1: together or what nah.
Speaker 2: He just was like, we need to tap in and
Speaker 2: you know, work, see what happened, And after a while
Speaker 2: you start getting eight, nine, ten, songs. It's like, nah,
Speaker 2: this got to be the album.
Speaker 1: But that's probably happened before, right.
Speaker 2: No, I mean with Nas, I didn't plan on making
Speaker 2: I mean four albums with him. I didn't even know
Speaker 2: I was gonna make one album with him. He just
Speaker 2: was coming to get some beats and we just kept working,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, he just kept pulling up.
Speaker 2: It's something about the spot I'm in and just the
Speaker 2: zone I'm in personally that makes artists want to keep
Speaker 2: coming back. For the most part, the physical spot really
Speaker 2: just physical spot work in childish studios.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where is that?
Speaker 2: What's Hollywood? Not far from here? Like five minutes and
Speaker 2: you just lock it out. Yeah. I've been there going
Speaker 2: on five years and now, yeah, this is August, it'll
Speaker 2: be five years. I've been in that studio and I've
Speaker 2: just been making a lot of progress. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like a homey type of situation, Like it kind of
Speaker 2: reminds me of me making beats in my bedroom at
Speaker 2: my mom crib. And I feel like that's what is
Speaker 2: attractive about it, Like it's not like some to my
Speaker 2: three year old, see three, it just makes it real
Speaker 2: comfortable to come record, yeah, versus like this big room
Speaker 2: that's got the lights all on and it's all stero.
Speaker 2: It's like, nah, you're coming in. It's like man, it's
Speaker 2: like almost like being at somebody crib.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, that's taking taking a back, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: So surfer drown First of all, what's the title surfer DROWND?
Speaker 2: I mean, I had went through some heavy stuff just
Speaker 2: in the game, you know what I mean, just in life.
Speaker 2: You know, we all got to figure out whether we're
Speaker 2: gonna surf for drown, but just especially the music industry,
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been to the mountaintop. I've been
Speaker 2: around the amazing artists and like, you know, getting that
Speaker 2: respect and then the flip side, you know, trying to
Speaker 2: figure it out. Like you know, I could have literally
Speaker 2: drowned and just like either quit music or like I've
Speaker 2: been in situations to where some people wouldn't even wanted
Speaker 2: to be alive no more, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: just like kind of felt like you lost it all
Speaker 2: and not getting the respect, not getting the replies from people,
Speaker 2: not getting the same you know energy you was, And
Speaker 2: I really like pulled myself about it at you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. I used to have a hundred people
Speaker 2: around me. Then it flipped to having nobody around the
Speaker 2: day that I found out I had like zero dollars
Speaker 2: in my account, which was like six years ago after
Speaker 2: having millions, nobody was there. Nobody was around, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. This was like, Wow, when you get
Speaker 2: into it, they gonna be there, and when you not,
Speaker 2: they not gonna be there. So it's like you gotta
Speaker 2: look inside yourself. And that's where the whole Surf for
Speaker 2: Drown concept came from. Like in surf Club is my
Speaker 2: that's my label, that's my click. That's since I was
Speaker 2: seventeen years old, been pushing surf Club And that's just
Speaker 2: kind of a play on that too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you get surf Club out of it? Were
Speaker 1: you in Fontana on that?
Speaker 2: I was in Fontana, Yeah, it was. It's crazy because
Speaker 2: I was at the Ontario Mills with the Homie Chili
Speaker 2: Chill with be Care and a couple other people this
Speaker 2: like two thousand and five, went to the Hollister store
Speaker 2: at Ontario Mills at the mall bought these all. We
Speaker 2: all bought that these kind of like matching similar sweaters
Speaker 2: and mindset surf Club on it, and we all kind
Speaker 2: of collectively was like, Yo, that should be the click
Speaker 2: name surf Club. It just sounded hard. So we just
Speaker 2: ran with it from there, and you know, it's like
Speaker 2: we've always gotten respect as far as that name goes. Man.
Speaker 2: Like you can hear like Drake shouting it out on
Speaker 2: multiple songs and just people that like really they understand
Speaker 2: like the legacy of it that if you really tapped
Speaker 2: in on it.
Speaker 1: Tapp into your vibe. Even hearing no shout out like
Speaker 1: the ie after the like what crazy far it's crazy?
Speaker 2: People hit me at me on ig and be like, yo,
Speaker 2: hit I love this. I E Weather. I'm like, that's crazy, y'all.
Speaker 2: Now just put that in the spectrum somebody from Queens,
Speaker 2: New York, Queen's Bridge, just like you just never know
Speaker 2: how it's gonna come together.
Speaker 1: Man, It's insane. Man. Yeah, did you ever feel like
Speaker 1: quitty like that point when you're at zero.
Speaker 2: Dollars that and before that and so many times, man,
Speaker 2: just like dealing with the game and getting to know yourself,
Speaker 2: knowing how this works, like knowing who you got around you, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it all can be like emotionally like heavy, but I
Speaker 2: love music so much.
Speaker 1: Well, what's the part of it that's like the unintended
Speaker 1: stuff that something in it for the music.
Speaker 2: But it's like, like, so I signed a publishing deal
Speaker 2: when I was one year out of high school with
Speaker 2: you know, by this time, you know, my uncle was
Speaker 2: popping late eighties, early nineties. This is two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven. He can't really give me the guidance.
Speaker 2: I don't really have that many people that I can,
Speaker 2: you know, get so like I signed a deal that
Speaker 2: I'm still into this day right now. So I'm talking
Speaker 2: about I'm thirty five, about to be thirty six next month,
Speaker 2: and I've been in the deal since I was nineteen,
Speaker 2: So that alone, it's been like a mental thing. It's
Speaker 2: been just like you know, I got to see so
Speaker 2: many people like who didn't sign you know, crazy deal
Speaker 2: come up after me and be kind of like looked
Speaker 2: at in a different light, revered in a different light
Speaker 2: when it's like I actually got the discography just the
Speaker 2: way things been structured, Like you know, I'm still waiting
Speaker 2: to get out that deal and even just like live
Speaker 2: on the level that I should be living on, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, which I'm living great, I'm living beautiful.
Speaker 2: I'm blessed all that, but there's more like I see,
Speaker 2: you know what it's gonna be, what it can be?
Speaker 1: How much longer does that deal run?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's supposed to be an earn out deal now,
Speaker 2: which just got renegotiated. And when you say so versus
Speaker 2: like me having to have, like I had an MDRC deal,
Speaker 2: which is like, you know, it's percentages and once you
Speaker 2: add up, they'll find some other way to make it
Speaker 2: not really count as what it's supposed to be in
Speaker 2: black and white and that's just all contractual just you know,
Speaker 2: wordage and stuff like that. But yeah, now it's like,
Speaker 2: I mean, I should have hopefully two years in this
Speaker 2: deal left.
Speaker 1: You know, and it's a publishing deal.
Speaker 2: Publishing deal, right, yeah, yeah, So that's like, you know,
Speaker 2: that's just like a part of what can weigh you
Speaker 2: down at times when you talking to lawyers and they're like, yo,
Speaker 2: this is the worst contract I've ever seen. That. That's
Speaker 2: not something as a creative you want to hear, especially
Speaker 2: when you did that deal so premature, so young, so
Speaker 2: just new to everything going on, Like I didn't expect
Speaker 2: me to still be in a deal that I signed
Speaker 2: from then, you know, It's like I didn't even find
Speaker 2: out that it was a bad deal until I made
Speaker 2: a hit, which was I got signed oh seven. I
Speaker 2: didn't make a real, real hit, top radio hit until
Speaker 2: like twenty eleven in Paris. Yeah, exactly. I found out
Speaker 2: after Niggas in Paris dropped and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: so where's the real, real money. And they're like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you signed to this contract, so you know it's not
Speaker 2: gonna be the way you thought it was gonna be.
Speaker 1: So who was getting the money?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like not that I'm not getting
Speaker 2: the money from that song, it's just more so like
Speaker 2: you know how some people are making hit and it's
Speaker 2: like going viral or whatever the case, they'll go be
Speaker 2: able to negotiate a new deal or something, get five
Speaker 2: ten million dollars or something like that. But I've never
Speaker 2: been able to do that with you know, even after
Speaker 2: making hits that should have allowed me to hit in exactly.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Yeah, given you've been locked into something that's
Speaker 1: felt so I mean beyond restrictive felt, it's felt.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Even just talking about this right now, though, like
Speaker 2: that brought me to this place, because you know, you
Speaker 2: get to a point where you want to do this.
Speaker 2: You want to just like get the singles and you
Speaker 2: want to like be have every song just be niggas
Speaker 2: in pairs perform at ten twelve times, Like it's not
Speaker 2: gonna all be that. So I got to this point
Speaker 2: where it's like I got to find out how to
Speaker 2: get my respect in another way, which was like it's
Speaker 2: a blessing to work with nas And so.
Speaker 1: Was that intentional or do you think that just happened?
Speaker 2: It was a mixture of both, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: was just like trying to figure it out and then
Speaker 2: understanding like Okay, if I somebody like Benny the Butcher,
Speaker 2: Big Sean, Naves Music, Soul Child, one of them come through,
Speaker 2: I gotta lock in on a different level. I can't
Speaker 2: let them leave. I gotta like have so much heat
Speaker 2: that it's like, nah, bro, I'm rocking with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just took me.
Speaker 2: To that level.
Speaker 1: Did did anyone guide you to that thinking? Or like did
Speaker 1: you kind of have to get.
Speaker 2: Through watching the game seeing just it was more so
Speaker 2: just watching.
Speaker 1: You feel like early on you had mentors in the
Speaker 1: production game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, Like I got signed to Polo to
Speaker 2: Don and he was doing big pop records and doing
Speaker 2: big R and B songs and rap songs too, and
Speaker 2: got to see the game at a high level. And
Speaker 2: even though even if he like didn't directly tell me
Speaker 2: exactly ABC what to do, I watched it. I watched him,
Speaker 2: I watched his ups in his downs. Just like even
Speaker 2: learning from my interaction with people. Gotta just like treat
Speaker 2: everybody decently because you don't know who's gonna become who's
Speaker 2: going to listen. I knew so many people, Drake, Frank Ocean, Tyler,
Speaker 2: the Creator, Kendrick Lamar, like knew these people before they
Speaker 2: blew up. So it's like you just gotta, like you
Speaker 2: you gotta understand that anybody it can turn up for them.
Speaker 1: So did you have good relationships with them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, show Yeah, but just in general, you know,
Speaker 2: just like just like learning and uh, that got me
Speaker 2: to this place where it's like I feel like I
Speaker 2: get more respect for doing these albums than doing a
Speaker 2: big giant single. People look at me different now, people
Speaker 2: understand like, oh, he's he's not one of those you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: He Like, seriously, it's really hard to get people to
Speaker 1: concentrate on a project like a full project, man, and
Speaker 1: to have multiple now like the two out this year.
Speaker 1: The not I mean like just to have so now
Speaker 1: like a whole body of just like actual projects. It's
Speaker 1: not just like Niggas in Paris or Click, which are
Speaker 1: great records, but like to actually now have like this,
Speaker 1: it puts you in a in my mind, and a
Speaker 1: different stature of producer, you know.
Speaker 2: One million percent. Man, It just makes people respect what
Speaker 2: you do more. I feel like, man, cause like I've
Speaker 2: had big radio songs and didn't get nowhere near this revered, respected, honor,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean like, And that's like it's
Speaker 2: just a mental thing too, Like you can't really get
Speaker 2: caught up in thinking that the name or the massive
Speaker 2: success of something that's going really lock people into what
Speaker 2: exactly who you are and what your brand is. You
Speaker 2: got to just make them waves and make them plays
Speaker 2: that make them respecting on a different level. It's not
Speaker 2: always going to be the like I put out an
Speaker 2: artist a song, a big name artist this year, and
Speaker 2: then I put out a song with Alchemists, and a
Speaker 2: song with Alchemist who is a less you know, lesser
Speaker 2: no name than this guy. Blew that shit out the water.
Speaker 2: So it's like you know, you just you know, you
Speaker 2: can't get caught up in just none of the industry
Speaker 2: tactics and thinking that, oh it's gonna be this way,
Speaker 2: Oh it's.
Speaker 1: Gonna be think with this person just because that's this song.
Speaker 2: Gonna be successful just because you know it's it. Don't
Speaker 2: work like that.
Speaker 1: You can't game it like that. How much of you
Speaker 1: going from like you know you at a high school.
Speaker 1: You sound like a deal. You're still locked into bad
Speaker 1: deal to now been around nos like, have you picked
Speaker 1: up on some of his the way he thinks about
Speaker 1: his team too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I pick up on just like how
Speaker 2: to be a solid person, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: He ain't never the loudest in the room. He ain't
Speaker 2: never gotta make itself seem like something like he just
Speaker 2: is who he is. So it's like I'm already personally
Speaker 2: that type of person too, But I learned even more, like, bro,
Speaker 2: just be humble, do what you do. You're gonna get
Speaker 2: the respect you deserve when you work for it, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? So I just learned just like
Speaker 2: on some life shit being around him, and obviously business too,
Speaker 2: like he's doing his thing and it's just like you
Speaker 2: have no choice. If you're really there and being attentive
Speaker 2: and you want to learn, you're gonna pick up on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, we have to pause for a quick break.
Speaker 1: When we're back, you'll hear all about hit boys beat
Speaker 1: making philosophy. We're back with more of my conversation with
Speaker 1: hit Boy. When you started making beats on FL studio,
Speaker 1: which you still use, right.
Speaker 2: I do. Yeah, that's why I just implemented NPC live
Speaker 2: and to I still use FL. I just record what
Speaker 2: I'm doing on live into FL and that's like been
Speaker 2: making my process even easier with making beats because it's
Speaker 2: funny because FL is like a lot of people that
Speaker 2: use it know that, like sometimes you have latency problems.
Speaker 2: So I really have been working with latency for ten
Speaker 2: twelve years.
Speaker 1: Like little working with that lag for yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So it's like I'm kind of like better than I
Speaker 2: even think I am, because now that I want a
Speaker 2: NPC and am feeling stuff in real time, I'm just like,
Speaker 2: oh man, it's just so much easier.
Speaker 1: So how did you account for the latency for the
Speaker 1: lag all those years?
Speaker 2: I just did it so much that it just kind
Speaker 2: of became regular to me, normal to me?
Speaker 1: Did it impact or sound? You think?
Speaker 2: Who knows? This put me in his own where it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm really working on this beat, Like I'm
Speaker 2: putting work into this beat.
Speaker 1: You know when did you decide to start incorporating the NPC.
Speaker 2: Just like four months ago? It's like recently I got
Speaker 2: the Supreme NPC Live NAS actually bought it for me,
Speaker 2: and I was just one day like me, I need
Speaker 2: to crack this open, matter of fact. No, my homeboy,
Speaker 2: James Fauntleroy, writer extraordinary legendary artists all that he was,
Speaker 2: came by and played me some beats that he had
Speaker 2: made on the NPC Live and he was like, bro,
Speaker 2: you gotta get on this. And then that's when I
Speaker 2: cracked it up. And maybe a week later or a
Speaker 2: few days later, and I'm like, yo, this is fun.
Speaker 2: It makes the process way more even fun, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? I already have fun while I'm making beats.
Speaker 2: But that's like make it almost like a cheat.
Speaker 1: Cold did not give it to you for you to
Speaker 1: make beats on or was it sort of just like hey, you're.
Speaker 2: Just like it's a dope piece, Like even if I
Speaker 2: never opened it like I probably could have sold it
Speaker 2: for however much, you know what I mean, But I'm like, nah,
Speaker 2: I gotta, I gotta get it in.
Speaker 1: So have you made anything yet with NPC that you
Speaker 1: feel like is gonna make it to a project.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, for sure already, Yeah for sure. Like I
Speaker 2: don't play like my I look at myself like a
Speaker 2: department store, like a just like a store for real,
Speaker 2: Like when you come through, you're gonna find something, whether
Speaker 2: it's the jacket, the shirt, maybe the whole outfit, the shoes, something,
Speaker 2: You're gonna find something that works for what you're doing.
Speaker 2: Nine times out of ten are just like kind of like,
Speaker 2: let me just keep cranking out product and it's like
Speaker 2: the latest stuff I do. I make sure I play
Speaker 2: it for the artist that's coming to work with me,
Speaker 2: and it just kind of always connects some ow.
Speaker 1: Are the artists that you ever make something for where
Speaker 1: you feel like you you seek them out to show
Speaker 1: them some certific like this could really work for this person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, especially more early in my career like now,
Speaker 2: I mean, well, if I know I'm not locked in
Speaker 2: with Knaves, I'm gonna getting that zone. Like after we
Speaker 2: do three four records. Like it's like, okay, some switches
Speaker 2: in my brain where it's like I know where to
Speaker 2: take it for the rest of the time on to
Speaker 2: keep it in this linear thing but still be dynamic.
Speaker 1: So you still locked in with knas.
Speaker 2: I'm super locked in. We was in the studio last night,
Speaker 2: probably gonna be in the studio after we're done with
Speaker 2: this podcast. Man, it's just like we're just like it's honestly,
Speaker 2: I feel like we're still working on the first album.
Speaker 2: Like it's just been like a progressive thing. Like I've
Speaker 2: seen people work on albums for five six years, and
Speaker 2: if we were just now about to come out the album,
Speaker 2: people would just like be even more mind blown because
Speaker 2: the progress. But it was good that we, you know,
Speaker 2: have been just making the projects, dropping them. We're getting
Speaker 2: this live feedback, we getting all this support, all this respect.
Speaker 2: He's up my respect level just in music in general.
Speaker 2: And people look at him it's like, you know, like, Wow,
Speaker 2: you can age gracefully. You could still keep it hip hop,
Speaker 2: you can still keep it fresh, still cutting edge, modern
Speaker 2: at you know what I'm saying. Whatever age, And it's
Speaker 2: not even about that, It's just about what.
Speaker 1: You guys are doing is timeless. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: Appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Man, It's crazy. I gotta say, like, I think jay
Speaker 1: Z did that similar thing with four four four made
Speaker 1: it feel like you don't have to be the newest
Speaker 1: the artist to make something that that resonats, impacts and vibrates,
Speaker 1: but you guys did it. KD, KD two, Magic, KD three,
Speaker 1: And to have every project be flawless really a point
Speaker 1: where it's like like those are just so next level incredible,
Speaker 1: Like how to you even choose one? That's like it's
Speaker 1: like it's like having three ematics, you know.
Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, I just seen somebody on Twitter say something
Speaker 2: about the first KD and I'm like, damn, we have
Speaker 2: some on there. It was like a different And I
Speaker 2: feel like we every song we make is like a
Speaker 2: real song with some type of structure, some type of
Speaker 2: you know, it might be a new way of thinking
Speaker 2: about it, but it's just like something that's gluing it
Speaker 2: together as an actual song, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And I feel like we've progressed into like really him
Speaker 2: just digging into that bag of just getting raps off,
Speaker 2: but still keeping a structure to where people can enjoy
Speaker 2: the song and it's not just three minutes are rapping
Speaker 2: like you still got to hook you still. But he
Speaker 2: just like just flashed back like and took it to
Speaker 2: a place that people of what people really want to
Speaker 2: hear from him?
Speaker 1: How are the concepts coming up? Like I'm thinking off
Speaker 1: this newer phone like Michael and Quincy like that, that's
Speaker 1: just a concept.
Speaker 2: He actually uh had that idea for a little minute,
Speaker 2: like for probably like some months, and he would just
Speaker 2: talk about it. I didn't know exactly what because I
Speaker 2: feel like most people would have just sampled either some
Speaker 2: off thriller or off the wall or just something that
Speaker 2: kind of like was a similar aesthetic to those. But
Speaker 2: we took it left field and had like the break
Speaker 2: beat with the dirty acoustic bass and then the horns
Speaker 2: and chord changes and just like you know, really having
Speaker 2: fun with it.
Speaker 1: So we had the concept for a minute, but there
Speaker 1: wasn't a beat attached.
Speaker 2: To it or yeah, because I was thinking about how
Speaker 2: they approach it, Like I never want to be surface
Speaker 2: level and just be like, Okay, cool, I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: sample a quincy.
Speaker 1: So easy thing to do, just sample body heat or something.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, No, it's like just come with a new
Speaker 2: wave Damn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you grow up a NAS fan? Like growing
Speaker 1: up on the West Coast. I grew up on the
Speaker 1: West Coast. NAS was respected. I respected NAS always, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't the thing that I was always hearing coming right.
Speaker 2: You know, man, that's funny because I just was having
Speaker 2: this conversation with somebody just about how like things are
Speaker 2: marketed in the way people look at things, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. I always had a super major respect
Speaker 2: for NAS, but working with him and digging into his discography,
Speaker 2: listening to how the albums was sequenced, Like I listened
Speaker 2: to all his intros, like just back to back to
Speaker 2: back to back, just trying to capture that that energy,
Speaker 2: and I really got more of an appreciation for who
Speaker 2: he really is and what he's contributed to music in general,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So I always had major
Speaker 2: respect for him, but I just like grew to really
Speaker 2: understand like, oh, this this dude is, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Because I was on the West Coast, so
Speaker 2: it wasn't as much other than the hits I following
Speaker 2: with the world and stuff like that will play on
Speaker 2: the radio all the time, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But I didn't like, you know, my family super West Coast,
Speaker 2: so they didn't just have his albums on repeat. But
Speaker 2: I did have friends who, you know, you know, if
Speaker 2: I was the jay Z guy, I got a homeboy
Speaker 2: who was the NAS guy, and we've back and forth
Speaker 2: takeover ether or whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And that's just like, I don't know, like probably sounds
Speaker 1: like for you too. For me, that like both of
Speaker 1: them didn't enter my my world as like beloved beloved
Speaker 1: artists until like that that beef time, like eat and
Speaker 1: take a ri et cetera. But like you know, like
Speaker 1: Ellmatic when you talk to anyone from New York, that's
Speaker 1: just like hands down easily. But it's like for me,
Speaker 1: it's like, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, ninety four death Row was going insane out here,
Speaker 2: so it's no rially like swallowing that up. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: but I get it now though, I get it. And
Speaker 2: his longevity just speaks to you know what he's always
Speaker 2: been like he been doing this since he was sixteen seventeen.
Speaker 2: For him to be forty nine, it's just like still
Speaker 2: rapping at a high level, projecting his voice at the
Speaker 2: highest levels.
Speaker 1: His voice sounds I think the best it's ever sounded crazy.
Speaker 1: So when when you guys are in sessions, will you
Speaker 1: guys discuss his approach on the song, like the way
Speaker 1: he's attacking a song a beat or his kick.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, I mean it's both ways. Sometimes I'll come
Speaker 2: in and you know, I might be like, yo, you
Speaker 2: should you should start rapping at this bar, like it
Speaker 2: might not it might not be the one, or it
Speaker 2: might be just like a off place, and then I
Speaker 2: just let him just take get from there, and he
Speaker 2: usually spark another idea for me, like like sometimes with
Speaker 2: the hooks, he'll record something and I'll just take the
Speaker 2: last word or what he said or last line, the
Speaker 2: way he said fly back and kind of just structure
Speaker 2: a hook and then let him finish it out and
Speaker 2: it just makes it easy wherever he going, I'm going,
Speaker 2: and we just making it work.
Speaker 1: So you'll structure a hook out of something that he
Speaker 1: may be intended as a verse exactly. I heard stories
Speaker 1: about Dre doing that for like Snoop back on, like
Speaker 1: the chronic and doggy style, Like Snooper would just freestyle
Speaker 1: something be like but it intended like that's the verse,
Speaker 1: but it'd be like.
Speaker 2: It's about that pocket the way it's hitting the pocket.
Speaker 2: Just like as a producer or whoever, if you're a songmaker,
Speaker 2: you will just hear certain things that maybe the artists
Speaker 2: not paying attention to. And it's like, I'm trying to
Speaker 2: take advantage of all this shit. This is not like.
Speaker 1: That's your job to hear what they're looking to it.
Speaker 2: He opened to my ideas, so and that's that's that's
Speaker 2: where I'm empowered, just like him being able to see
Speaker 2: my vision when it when I play a beat, it
Speaker 2: the beating, I might not even be all the way done.
Speaker 2: But if I'm excited about something and I got a
Speaker 2: chord structure or some drums and put it together, and
Speaker 2: like he down to write to it, he down to
Speaker 2: wrap on it.
Speaker 1: Just that baseline like unfinished. Yeah, kernel of an idea.
Speaker 2: That's it because most you know, especially now in the
Speaker 2: New age, they if it don't sound like the top
Speaker 2: of rap Caviard the number one song, some like artists
Speaker 2: won't even pay attention to it. They don't want to
Speaker 2: build and really like make a song. Most a lot,
Speaker 2: not most, but a lot of artists.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's probably that's a real vulnerable place
Speaker 1: for you to be as a producer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, earlier in my career, like I'll sit there and
Speaker 2: just go through as many beats as it took. But
Speaker 2: now it's like, man, if we gotta go past maybe
Speaker 2: five beats, we probably you just go find another producer. Well,
Speaker 2: we'll reconvene. Just come pull back up on me and
Speaker 2: we'll lock in when it's time, you know, Because I
Speaker 2: feel like, if if I'm gonna have an artist come in,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play them something that I can hear them
Speaker 2: on and if we not on the same wavelength, and
Speaker 2: that just is what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Rihanna joint you did on Anti, that one,
Speaker 1: that was one that it took a while, right, I did.
Speaker 2: Two on Anti po's and the song Woo, and that
Speaker 2: was that was a build, that was a process. I
Speaker 2: had the basis of it though. When we sat down.
Speaker 2: I was in a room with Travis Scott the Weekend
Speaker 2: Tire Dollar Sign and the Dream and I just had
Speaker 2: my UH had to contact UH sort of NPC and
Speaker 2: I was just playing with them guitar stabs and just
Speaker 2: came up with that pattern and everybody in the room
Speaker 2: just when crazy start humming melodies and writing to it,
Speaker 2: and it just got built out progressively.
Speaker 1: That's got to be a hell of feeling to have
Speaker 1: that room start vibing on what's your play?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I just remember like weekend seeing melodies, Travis coming
Speaker 2: up with his wave and it came together.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't Rihanna session, so you knew whatever was
Speaker 1: for that project for sure. Okay, Okay, a couple of
Speaker 1: songs from the last few Nods records I want to
Speaker 1: talk about just to having Premiere cut on Wave, Guys.
Speaker 2: That was ill. That's because it was like a collective thing.
Speaker 2: Like when Rocky came through to do his verse, he
Speaker 2: was like, Yo, we should get Premiere to scratch on this,
Speaker 2: and it was like yo, me and Nas was low
Speaker 2: key already kind of thinking like that. So it just
Speaker 2: made sense.
Speaker 1: Who hit Premiere?
Speaker 2: Oh that had to be. Nas just tapped in with
Speaker 2: him and he did it off the love you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, just went in and made it sound
Speaker 2: like authentic Premiere vibes.
Speaker 1: Did you have any notes on it? Nah? Then it
Speaker 1: was solid one take. So you do E p m D.
Speaker 1: How did the epm D concept for the Ryan Coogler
Speaker 1: film Judas and Juice. Yeah, Judas a Black Man sida,
Speaker 1: how did how did that concept come up? For that?
Speaker 2: I just had to beat and uh Nas walking the
Speaker 2: stew I was playing it loud and he just start
Speaker 2: coming up with flows and then set the EPM D
Speaker 2: line and just went from there. We just built it
Speaker 2: out and uh it was four or Kate King's Disease too,
Speaker 2: like that was supposed to be a record on there.
Speaker 2: It ended up being a remix on King's Disease Too,
Speaker 2: but the original was just it was supposed to be
Speaker 2: for the album. And uh I was involved in Judis
Speaker 2: and the Black messide kind of like heavily on the
Speaker 2: executive production side. So I actually put a record on
Speaker 2: my own with me rapping on their call broad Day.
Speaker 2: They was just like, yo, we need more records. I'll
Speaker 2: just start submitting joints and EPMD. They was like this
Speaker 2: is perfect and they ended up doing the video and
Speaker 2: all that.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, But to them, when did you guys decide
Speaker 1: do you want to still keep it for the record.
Speaker 2: We just love the joint and uh Nas I guess
Speaker 2: was uh I forgot how the eminem thing came about,
Speaker 2: but he just was like, man, we should throw eminem on.
Speaker 2: It reached out to him. He did the joint quick,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, hopped on it. Uh EPMD
Speaker 2: didn't even know that Eminem was on it until it
Speaker 2: was about to drop, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: that was an ill moment, just like it all coming
Speaker 2: together and everybody from their own air just getting they respect.
Speaker 1: That's one of those records man, where it's like, again,
Speaker 1: that's why these projects are so incredible. Man, like just
Speaker 1: getting premiere on that magic joint. But when you have.
Speaker 2: Warren Hill on KD two, yeah, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: that's something like Okay, as a producer, you just like,
Speaker 2: don't first of all, she don't even like rap like
Speaker 2: that much, no.
Speaker 1: More, don't anythings.
Speaker 2: Just like for me to like have a premiere Lauren
Speaker 2: Hill rap verse on one of my beats, that's just ill.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when's the last time you heard of Lauren Hill verse?
Speaker 1: Like a new Lauren Hill.
Speaker 2: She went in, she went in and for bars, bars,
Speaker 2: like she was like two verses put in the one.
Speaker 1: How did that come up?
Speaker 2: They just cool Nas and Lauren Hill. So through them talking,
Speaker 2: I guess they they wanted to do a joint and uh,
Speaker 2: when we made the song, Nas was like this this
Speaker 2: is the one. We gotta put Lauren on it.
Speaker 1: Did he have his verse already?
Speaker 2: Yeah he did, he did, He had his verse and
Speaker 2: sent it over and she literally did. She did it
Speaker 2: within days.
Speaker 1: Like did you think it was really gonna happen?
Speaker 2: I didn't personally, but it just like came together. Man.
Speaker 1: It was ill again, even the resisting the temptation to
Speaker 1: do the obvious, which would be to do like if
Speaker 1: I ruled the world too.
Speaker 2: You know that concept was dope for her too, because
Speaker 2: she do be on her you know, nobody was just
Speaker 2: like out the way type vibe as far as I
Speaker 2: can see. And yeah, it just brought the concept all the.
Speaker 1: Way home, did she? And she recorded it, She recorded.
Speaker 2: In her own space but sent the vocals in and yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just a moment. What about Death Row East,
Speaker 2: Death Row East? That was the first song we did
Speaker 2: for KD too. Man, that set the tone, Like that
Speaker 2: concept is powerful. It's a moment that a lot of people,
Speaker 2: a lot of Internet talk, a lot of podcasts, people
Speaker 2: telling their recollection of what happened at Brian Park between
Speaker 2: Knaves and Park and Death Row and Na's click and
Speaker 2: he just beha was straight like POV of what really happened.
Speaker 1: How much was death Row and POC and Johnny J.
Speaker 1: And how much is that like all part of your consciousness?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I downloaded that DNA from just hearing it all
Speaker 2: the time. Like that was like massive on a commercial
Speaker 2: level in underground like everybody rock with the Death Row
Speaker 2: stuff like Snoop Pop all that, and doing that song,
Speaker 2: I just was like, man, I need to like tap
Speaker 2: into as much as I can as far as like
Speaker 2: pot producers go. And then I just like already watched
Speaker 2: like documentaries and stuff on Johnny J. And I was like,
Speaker 2: that's the producer I need to channel the most on
Speaker 2: this song.
Speaker 1: What made you feel that?
Speaker 2: Because it just reminded me of a Tupac beat like
Speaker 2: death Row type of vibe, like that melodic kind of
Speaker 2: guitar stuff with the groove over it. It just yeah,
Speaker 2: it had that energy.
Speaker 1: It's an incredible beat. Man. Appreciate the locking in with
Speaker 1: NAS for those records you locked in with Soul Child.
Speaker 1: It's really rare these days, and it's funny, like I
Speaker 1: guess it maybe it goes back to even el Maati
Speaker 1: when like Not's having all those incredible producers. This first
Speaker 1: record really kind of seemed to popularize like having a
Speaker 1: bunch of different producers on your record, but yeah, what
Speaker 1: you're doing now is rare.
Speaker 2: Man appreciate that, yeah, I mean yeah, it just that's
Speaker 2: the flip side of that. Now it's like he started
Speaker 2: off working with just all different bunch of different producers.
Speaker 2: Now you've been locked in with me for three years,
Speaker 2: and it's like, don't seem like we stopping no time soon?
Speaker 2: Like we really having fun with it.
Speaker 1: So where are you finding the time? Then? So you know,
Speaker 1: within thirteen months, it's Katie two, it's Magic, It's Kati three,
Speaker 1: and now you're out with your own record right surf
Speaker 1: for Drunks and the soul child record music, so Child record, Like,
Speaker 1: how like where are you finding the time?
Speaker 2: Man? I just got to just go just like don't
Speaker 2: don't don't not to say don't think, but just like
Speaker 2: really any type of energy that I can put into
Speaker 2: being in the studio and just progressing with my sound
Speaker 2: and just helping other artists. I'm on that. You know,
Speaker 2: this is what I worked for to have artists trusted
Speaker 2: me on this level. Now that I got that, it's
Speaker 2: like I gotta like really hold that up high and
Speaker 2: take advantage of this, like these opportunities.
Speaker 1: How natural does rhyming still come to? Does writing and performing?
Speaker 2: Man, this is like getting so much easier, I would say,
Speaker 2: just because I've been in the studio with people like
Speaker 2: Big Sean, like with you know what I'm saying. I
Speaker 2: executive produced Detroit two for Big Sean, did a project
Speaker 2: called what You Expect a ep whim. I mean being
Speaker 2: around Benny the Butcher, I produced you know, his album
Speaker 2: Burdening Proof in twenty twenty that was like, you know,
Speaker 2: just kind of heavy on the underground and working with
Speaker 2: nas Man, I'm working with some top tiered artists.
Speaker 1: Some of the most premier.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, they watching and being fans and studying,
Speaker 2: you know, just as far as what I'm doing on
Speaker 2: the production, and I'm doing the same on the artist,
Speaker 2: And so that's just helping me cultivate a whole just
Speaker 2: next level with myself.
Speaker 1: Have you always been writing on the side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I always been dropping projects, dropping singles,
Speaker 2: just like you know, That's always been my passion. But
Speaker 2: it's like the beat making aspect of it is so
Speaker 2: much fun to me that I just took a liking
Speaker 2: to it. You know what I mean. I feel like
Speaker 2: if I would have been chasing trying to be an
Speaker 2: artist all these years, who knows, you know, it could
Speaker 2: have worked out, couldn't have. But now it's like I
Speaker 2: have an ultimate cheat code, Like I could see the
Speaker 2: studentmate and make songs all day. As soon as one
Speaker 2: of the greatest artists living, you know, lead a studio,
Speaker 2: whoever that may be. You know what I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: able to start recording my own stuff. They didn't left
Speaker 2: that energy in the studio. I watched them put bars
Speaker 2: and lines together, and you know, it's just like it's
Speaker 2: just helping me with my own structure.
Speaker 1: That's incredible, man, that you that you're able to sit
Speaker 1: there and watch the people at the best of the best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and having just like the mind to want to,
Speaker 2: you know, look at it a different way, like I'm
Speaker 2: in there really trying to learn. I'm trying to get
Speaker 2: better every day, like I ain't wasting no time.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take one last quick break and then come
Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with hit Boy.
Speaker 1: We're back with hit Boy. How is it being around
Speaker 1: as a producer MC? How is it being around yay
Speaker 1: in the in your good music years.
Speaker 2: When I first moved to Atlanta after that sign I
Speaker 2: did with Polo that was like my college years, and
Speaker 2: like the years with Kanye was like the Oh, I
Speaker 2: got a job that's at a high level, but I
Speaker 2: gotta still learn, you know what I mean. I still
Speaker 2: got a lot of learning to do, like understanding like
Speaker 2: this thing moves quick, and you have to move fast.
Speaker 2: You gotta be efficient. You gotta be on top of
Speaker 2: it at all times. And that's really what that taught me,
Speaker 2: Like you gotta be putting like he was sleeping in
Speaker 2: the stool, like wake up, saying close, start recording, start whatever,
Speaker 2: like chopping up samples. I'm just like that's the level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's almost like yeah, seen, I haven't watched that
Speaker 1: Genius documentary and just seeing some footage or yeah in
Speaker 1: the studio almost reminds you, like when you see those
Speaker 1: little clips of like Poc in the studio, like it's
Speaker 1: just the energies on on a hundred, like there's there's
Speaker 1: work to do, Like let's do the world.
Speaker 2: Like he ain't he's not in there playing and he
Speaker 2: ain't gonna be nice about it. He's not gonna be
Speaker 2: polite talking softly. He's gonna let you know, like you
Speaker 2: fucking up, like like do this shit the right way
Speaker 2: type shit? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Did you ever catch that wrath?
Speaker 2: The first time I sat down to make a beat
Speaker 2: with him was the song lift Off. I watched the Throne.
Speaker 2: He had me trying some drums and some other instrumentations.
Speaker 2: This is when I don't think I had ever really
Speaker 2: got a session from nobody, and they told me to
Speaker 2: basically rework it and strip things away. Like he kept
Speaker 2: telling me to strip these these drums away, but I
Speaker 2: couldn't really understand exactly how he was saying it. So
Speaker 2: he started kind of firing up on me to where
Speaker 2: I had to really look at them. I'm like, we
Speaker 2: just met, homie, you know what I mean. Like so
Speaker 2: it's like yeah, but that just like taught me, like nah, Broy,
Speaker 2: I remember his exact words. I just kept forgetting to
Speaker 2: mute the drums or something was going on, and he
Speaker 2: was like, these drums are gonna be the death of me.
Speaker 2: Like I just remember. I'm like, it's that series broke.
Speaker 2: I'm like that's crazy, you know what I mean? But
Speaker 2: you know that's his passion. That's why he got twenty
Speaker 2: something Grammys or however many and his respected on that
Speaker 2: level is because he don't he not playing.
Speaker 1: You don't seem like the kind of person that ever
Speaker 1: like be like that. But have you moved from that time?
Speaker 1: Have you moved closer on the spectrum of like just
Speaker 1: sort of more relaxed to like.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, for sure we didn't have our We've been
Speaker 2: super cool. I mean we ain't in contact like that
Speaker 2: right now, but I.
Speaker 1: Mean, like creatively for you, like, have you moved closer
Speaker 1: towards that like kind of almost perfectionist kind of vibe
Speaker 1: in his studio way?
Speaker 2: In all way, I'm just like a much more chill
Speaker 2: personality than he is. Yeah, even though we both geminis,
Speaker 2: he a June Jemina may be and Biggie got the
Speaker 2: same birthday. Wow, And yeah, but I definitely like, you know,
Speaker 2: shit gotta get done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when Niggas and Paris became what it became, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was that feeling like for you?
Speaker 2: It was ill because Kanye had been telling me like
Speaker 2: through emails because I was the one song I didn't
Speaker 2: hear off the album. I had heard most of them songs,
Speaker 2: and I had heard like the song I had did
Speaker 2: other songs that I was excited about that I'm thinking
Speaker 2: gonna be on Watch the Throne. None of them may
Speaker 2: made it anywhere, and Niggas in Paris was the one
Speaker 2: random beat out of maybe sixty seventy beats I had
Speaker 2: sent Kanye through email and he somehow pulled it up
Speaker 2: when it was in Paris and they must have been
Speaker 2: lit vibing and played it and it just turned them up.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but he was I hadn't linked back with him,
Speaker 2: like for like a month and a half, two months.
Speaker 2: I was out in Cali, he was in Paris and wherever.
Speaker 2: And when I went to they had the listening party
Speaker 2: at the Observatory in New York, crazy like stars on
Speaker 2: the ceiling and all that, playing the album super loud.
Speaker 2: He brought in some crazy speakers and I just like
Speaker 2: the first two songs played got to Niggas in Paris.
Speaker 2: Everybody in observatory stood up. DJ Kyler was next to
Speaker 2: me and just everybody was vibe and just like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is the one right right. So I'm like, man, yeah,
Speaker 2: it just worked out. Damn yeah.
Speaker 1: As a young producer at the time, that really being
Speaker 1: your first, like you called it, earlier, first real big hit.
Speaker 1: Did that put pressure on you? On? Do pressure on you?
Speaker 1: Or did it make you feel like now everything's going
Speaker 1: to be hit? Or what? Did it?
Speaker 2: Man? It's all that all the above, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, That's how I got to that point to
Speaker 2: where you know, I had to had that surfer drown moment.
Speaker 2: I was from niggas in pairis to that. I was
Speaker 2: twenty eleven to twenty seventeen, just was like this all
Speaker 2: the way until it got you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Really feel that way?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do personally just on just just for this.
Speaker 1: You're still making good records and all that exactly.
Speaker 2: Still making records like you know, Sorry even came out
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen sixteen off Lemonade, and you know, I'm working
Speaker 2: with these people, but I'm seeing the way I'm not
Speaker 2: getting the respect I'm not getting I'm getting. You know,
Speaker 2: I look on Twitter, I watched I pay attention to socials.
Speaker 2: I pay attention. I'm looking at what people saying, like
Speaker 2: where hit boy, Yeah, hey boy fell off? Here boy?
Speaker 2: This hey boy? That mind you? It was like I
Speaker 2: got records that's been recorded with you know, jay Z
Speaker 2: and Beyonce on them and I've you know, got stuff
Speaker 2: with Travis Scott and all that, but it's like the
Speaker 2: niggas in pair of situation definitely, like just like was
Speaker 2: a crazy ride because like I attracted you know, different
Speaker 2: label deals and stuff like that that I was able
Speaker 2: to get a lot of money from but didn't know
Speaker 2: what to do with it, didn't know how to move,
Speaker 2: didn't know I had to have the right infrastructure in
Speaker 2: the right you know, just team around me and all that.
Speaker 2: And that's what was the learning curve. That was the
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to give this back to the game
Speaker 2: to get it back triple, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And UH just kind of programmed myself to you know,
Speaker 2: cause it's like after that, you want to chase that,
Speaker 2: and then you start to feel like, damn, this song
Speaker 2: being performed ten times, this song ain't played all day
Speaker 2: on the radio, so I fell off or whatever the
Speaker 2: case is. You want to chase that feeling, but you
Speaker 2: can't do that. You gotta understand that everything is gonna
Speaker 2: have his space. Like me and NAS and granted we
Speaker 2: haven't really pushed for this. We ain't had no giant
Speaker 2: you know, radio record or nothing like that, but I
Speaker 2: get way more respect off of anything I ever did
Speaker 2: on radio, off this not all.
Speaker 1: Those things feel so much bigger than any like radio play, crazy,
Speaker 1: like bigger than any of that. It's insane. Yeah, or
Speaker 1: other rappers from Naz's era, are they looking at you
Speaker 1: in any way to thinking that they can replicate?
Speaker 2: So, I mean, oh yeah, I had a few people
Speaker 2: reach out, but it's like it gotta be right, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Like I worked on I mean,
Speaker 2: even Game is like after NAS obviously, but just like
Speaker 2: from that era of like real super hardcore rap. I
Speaker 2: did like six songs on Dramatic for Game. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: like I feel like that was a I mean it's
Speaker 2: like he based kind of Dramatic off Illmatic, So it's
Speaker 2: like he definitely was inspired by Bro and I was
Speaker 2: just able to, like, you know, have it all come
Speaker 2: full circle because I had worked with him before in
Speaker 2: the past.
Speaker 1: Do you want to do more R and B?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: For sure?
Speaker 2: I mean Bro, I mean, I don't know what a
Speaker 2: like playlist they'll be putting, like Don Tyler Wrenn, But
Speaker 2: I gotta look at him as a singer, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. I did two songs on his album,
Speaker 2: did a single on his last album as well. So
Speaker 2: you know, I'm doing these projects, but I'm also still
Speaker 2: getting my joints off and working with different artists. Did
Speaker 2: something on the Beyonce album. Even though I was like electronics,
Speaker 2: she still is like, you know on some Queen R
Speaker 2: and B.
Speaker 1: Hey, Danny, can you play play Thick.
Speaker 2: In the car and take you back to them?
Speaker 1: Are you in the studio Beyonce when she's recording this.
Speaker 2: I was in the studio to play her to beat
Speaker 2: and I heard some early ideas. But this song was
Speaker 2: made and what the beat was made in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 2: so it went through a whole transformations. I don't even
Speaker 2: remember what the original concept. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: it was the thick concept, but she flushed it out
Speaker 2: and turned it into a joint. And I actually got
Speaker 2: the link with her before the album came out, heard
Speaker 2: some joints, heard she played me this final version, and
Speaker 2: I was like, man, it's just like crazy that you
Speaker 2: know it took eight years for this to become what
Speaker 2: it is now?
Speaker 1: All right, man, I was just gonna say because from
Speaker 1: the time I've heard that, I was trying to imagine you.
Speaker 2: Like watching her record.
Speaker 1: Jay be in the room, Like, yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 2: Watch I didn't watch her record that, but I have
Speaker 2: seen her record.
Speaker 1: Before I was watching Beyond record.
Speaker 2: It is what you're think it is. This is you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, like real genius level, real thought
Speaker 2: out getting a song and just like doing it the
Speaker 2: exact way that the person you know might have gave
Speaker 2: it to her eyes like she gonna flip something and
Speaker 2: move parts around and really like she gets like a producer, writer,
Speaker 2: artists all that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was so you made that twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: Right, I made the beat twenty fourteen with the bridge
Speaker 2: and all that, with the chord changes I played and yeah.
Speaker 1: And back then, did you know it was going to
Speaker 1: be more of like a dance oriented.
Speaker 2: No, that was that was that was way back because
Speaker 2: we had recorded a lot of songs back then. That
Speaker 2: was the one that saw the light of day eight
Speaker 2: years later.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's that's wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't like definitely not no electronic or like
Speaker 2: you know that type of way back then.
Speaker 1: But it's incredible that you also, like, I mean, you've
Speaker 1: talked about it a couple of times here, and it's
Speaker 1: it's something it's actually something I didn't think about too
Speaker 1: much until I was listening to your new record and
Speaker 1: I was listening to Slipping in the Darkness, which again
Speaker 1: I thought was gonna be a sample Slipping in the Darkness, Right,
Speaker 1: you don't go for the obvious, but remember I think,
Speaker 1: all right, that's gonna be that sample. Put an on
Speaker 1: belts not and then the beat flips. That's the different beat.
Speaker 1: Later I realized it is Alchemist and you I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's on some friendly shit or like what
Speaker 1: you call out a couple of producers. Right, But in
Speaker 1: a way, that to me was like interesting, like you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you could, you could do this, but can you chop soul?
Speaker 1: You could do? I heard you without eight away.
Speaker 2: Just asked questions and said what I personally haven't heard,
Speaker 2: Like these dudes could have one hundred boomback beats in
Speaker 2: the stash that I just ain't heard. But I just
Speaker 2: made a statement saying that, you know, that's the sound
Speaker 2: I haven't heard from them. But look at Magic, look
Speaker 2: at or go to Travis Scott, go to Kanye West.
Speaker 2: You're gonna hear every sound for me. You know.
Speaker 1: The questioning though, it was brilliant because it really made
Speaker 1: me think about I was like that, like you really
Speaker 1: can do so many different things, Like I guess I
Speaker 1: knew it.
Speaker 2: It was more so like kind of like that too,
Speaker 2: like just promoting my versatility, promoting you know, and just
Speaker 2: kind of like carving a laying out for myself, like
Speaker 2: y'all gotta really pay attention. And that's what's been so
Speaker 2: tough for me, is like making a song like Troe
Speaker 2: for Drake and then making something for you know whoever.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's one train for a sex.
Speaker 2: It's hard for you to connect that just generally, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Just and just on a human level,
Speaker 2: it's just like not easy to keep up with a
Speaker 2: lot of shit. So if I'm all over the place,
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, hit Boy isn't the household name
Speaker 2: because of that, And that's what I feel like, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And now it's like getting more
Speaker 2: to that point. But I had to create a linear thing,
Speaker 2: which is now me just doing albums for people. None
Speaker 2: of the beats sound the same on the albums, but
Speaker 2: you know I did them, so it just connects with
Speaker 2: the brain a lot more.
Speaker 1: And that's one thing that also makes I think you
Speaker 1: doing a full album work also is that it doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily sound like one producer like from Like it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like the same bag of tricks every song you
Speaker 1: know or whatever. It's like, oh, every song sounds varied.
Speaker 1: It sounds like there's a lot of movement musically throughout
Speaker 1: the records.
Speaker 2: Having fun, man taking advantage and just like I said,
Speaker 2: like I always tapping my younger self, like, man, if
Speaker 2: I had this opportunity, however long ago before I got on,
Speaker 2: like I would have wanted to mash out. So I
Speaker 2: need to keep that same energy.
Speaker 1: That has got to be crazy for your younger self
Speaker 1: to be for records and with NAS many collaborations with
Speaker 1: Beyonce and Drake and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was on beyonce last three albums. It's like, man,
Speaker 2: whatever she's seeing me like, I appreciate it because it's
Speaker 2: like she'd been she'd pulled me in, like Beyonce album,
Speaker 2: the Lemonade album and then the Renaissance.
Speaker 1: And these are records that people are gonna be not
Speaker 1: just listening to, but like studying for decades. Yeah you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. They're not like fly by Night records.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's beautiful man for show. Shout out to her.
Speaker 1: When people go back and look at Prince Records and
Speaker 1: analyze every little thing, and Michael records.
Speaker 2: My son three years old, Like I get in the card.
Speaker 2: He like play kids songs. I'm like, what you want
Speaker 2: to hear Michael Jackson like he thinks as kids music like,
Speaker 2: but that's how good it is. It's resonating with like
Speaker 2: a kid all the way to a gangster, to a politician,
Speaker 2: to a lawyer, anybody. For the most part, you could
Speaker 2: feel Michael Jackson music. So it's like I want to,
Speaker 2: you know, be able to contribute something to the game
Speaker 2: on that similar level. And I take a lot of
Speaker 2: work that take a lot of locking in.
Speaker 1: If you had like a vision for like what artistically
Speaker 1: I mean maybe career wise too, but where you're at
Speaker 1: five years from now.
Speaker 2: Man man, just like really uh giving back, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, and create more opportunities for where music
Speaker 2: is going. And for kids that's like trying to do
Speaker 2: their thing, you know what I mean. I see my
Speaker 2: homeboys James far Leroy and Lawrence with fifteen hundred, they
Speaker 2: got a whole academy, they got to school. That's something
Speaker 2: that I want to, you know, lock in and be
Speaker 2: able to teach and just like really inspire the next generation.
Speaker 2: It's like the game is getting crazy, Like I've been
Speaker 2: seeing it. I've been saying it for years. That is
Speaker 2: getting easier and easier to make beats. And now they
Speaker 2: got the artificial intelligence. You could type in the sound
Speaker 2: of vibe and it'll make the be for you. I
Speaker 2: feel like it's only gonna get better. Anybody gonna be
Speaker 2: able to just have music at the tip of their
Speaker 2: fingers now and just like make it sound quality somehow.
Speaker 1: So does that make you worry?
Speaker 2: Nah? That just like I need to I need to
Speaker 2: like link with some AI people and see how I
Speaker 2: can incorporate that into what I'm doing. It's just like
Speaker 2: that's where the world is going. It is what it is. Like.
Speaker 2: I don't never like try to be anti what's going on.
Speaker 2: It's like I want to implement it and see how
Speaker 2: I can use my personal style along with some AI shit.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, speaking of the way like things have
Speaker 1: changed in production over the years, I mean you kind
Speaker 1: of even say it too. So for Drown, it's like
Speaker 1: I haven't really seen you without a bunch of like
Speaker 1: co producers, Like the way that there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: The generous way of saying it is it's more collaborative
Speaker 1: process for you know. The other way of looking at
Speaker 1: it is it's a lot of people getting points or whatever.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like I said, it's like getting easier
Speaker 2: and easier to like make music, and then like you know,
Speaker 2: some people are finesse's that's that specific line though, was
Speaker 2: for one person kind of attacked me out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, I never seen one credit from
Speaker 2: you without a co producer, like go, look me up,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like you trying to downplay
Speaker 2: what I do. And that's just all that was. But
Speaker 2: I understand like Quincy might not even touch the drums
Speaker 2: or keys on any thriller songs. Nah, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. But we still revere him and respect him,
Speaker 2: and we know his genius. We know that he contributed
Speaker 2: something that really mattered to that project to be the
Speaker 2: producer on every song and to be the executive producer.
Speaker 2: But you got Greg feeling games, you got the guy
Speaker 2: who is programming the drums and all that, But that
Speaker 2: don't make him anything less. So it's like I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that it's not cool to work with other musicians.
Speaker 2: I do that I got credits. You know, I'd be
Speaker 2: generous with letting my homies come in. And if I
Speaker 2: hear something, it's like, yo, add a part to this,
Speaker 2: maybe try some drums here, Like you know, I'm still
Speaker 2: I'm still there conducting it though, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like if you give me some pieces, I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't really just let people just freely do their thing,
Speaker 2: like I kind of just like kind of still got it.
Speaker 2: And that's what the genius part is. So you know,
Speaker 2: I understand that's part of the game.
Speaker 1: Some of the younger, young young artists. Are you enticed
Speaker 1: by working with them? Oh, for sure, I'll be down
Speaker 1: to the like you know something, I'm like, man, I
Speaker 1: can hear her.
Speaker 2: That's funny. Now, it's crazy because before a month just
Speaker 2: before like her like you know, following Drake and Drake,
Speaker 2: following her all this, Like I literally DMed her and
Speaker 2: she came to LA and when she hit me up,
Speaker 2: like I just was kind of just moving around, probably
Speaker 2: doing too much and wasn't able to link. And I
Speaker 2: was about to link her before the fame, before like
Speaker 2: the real pop off and ship, like I've seen the vision.
Speaker 2: I knew it was coming.
Speaker 1: Did you see it from off that off the Busted
Speaker 1: Down Challenge or what would you see?
Speaker 2: This is way back, bro. I just seen like the
Speaker 2: way she looks. She had a look and like you know,
Speaker 2: she like just had some tour the video for the
Speaker 2: Red Fro. This is this is some time ago. Like
Speaker 2: I mean, I just was like I hit her up
Speaker 2: and gave her my number when she came in, when
Speaker 2: she came out, we just never linked.
Speaker 1: It's got to happen, man, crazy, that's got to happen,
Speaker 1: because she was sounding real nice on your beats for sure. Man, Well,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being gracious with your time, man,
Speaker 1: for sure for all the music.
Speaker 2: Man, appreciate y'all having me. Man, it was set up.
Speaker 1: Before you go. I got acol because it's important. Man.
Speaker 1: How good NAS is sounding or on.
Speaker 2: Your shout out to David kim our engineer. He mixed
Speaker 2: all four projects, my home boy. He makes a lot
Speaker 2: of other stuff, mixed most of my music. But it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a perfect triangle offense, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, between me and him and Nas as far
Speaker 2: as sonics and getting you know, everybody putting it all
Speaker 2: into what's going on, like David is gonna go to
Speaker 2: extra mile to just make sure the music is pumping
Speaker 2: in the vocals, just like sitting in a proper place.
Speaker 1: Sitting perfect. Man. Whatever people was hearing in the day
Speaker 1: where they felt like they couldn't lay their voice into
Speaker 1: your beats because it's too crowded, It's like, whatever's going
Speaker 1: on now? Man, it's like sonically.
Speaker 2: Perfect, yeah, not for show, And that's what I'm working on.
Speaker 2: I just like want the music. I'm trying to get
Speaker 2: to that thriller level where it's like just like going
Speaker 2: into your ears perfectly and just hitting the veins and
Speaker 2: the soul. You know what it does.
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you like having nas At thirty years
Speaker 1: later sounding better than his every time, that's like having
Speaker 1: a Whitney ten years ago coming out with her best record.
Speaker 1: You know, like you got someone with an iconic voice
Speaker 1: sounding the best that they've ever sounded.
Speaker 2: That's why I'll be telling you too. I'm like, Bro,
Speaker 2: you could say ABC one two three on the beat
Speaker 2: and your voice is so cold that it's gonna sound ill.
Speaker 2: So I'm like the words and the way you putting
Speaker 2: it together, that's just like the mind blowing shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, We must respect man.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you, Yes, sir.
Speaker 1: Thanks to hit Boys for breaking down his production process
Speaker 1: and inspiration. You can hear all of our favorite hit
Speaker 1: Boy produced tracks on a playlist at broken record podcast
Speaker 1: dot com. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you can
Speaker 1: find all of our new episodes. Broken Record is produced
Speaker 1: with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ven Talliday, Nisha Venkat,
Speaker 1: Jordan McMillan, and Eric Sandler. Our editor is Sophie Crane.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
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