WEBVTT - Exercise Dependency vs. Exercise Compulsion ft. Matt Stranberg 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.840 I won't lend my body out out everything that I'm 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.800 made do, won't spend my life trying to change. I'm 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.440 learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong, 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:15.840 I feel free, I know who every part of me. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:24.000 It's beautiful and I will always out way if you 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.640 feel it with your hands in the air, she'll some 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.000 love to the poet there. Let's say good day and 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:35.880 time did you and die out? Welcome back to that way, 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.599 Lisa here again, and today we're bringing back Matt Stranberg, 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.479 who you probably remember from our last episode where we 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:44.960 learned all about how to figure out if our relationship 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.360 to food is healthy versus dysfunctional. We explored the differences 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.559 between men and women in eating disorders, and what I 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.920 really loved about that episode, which was how we can 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.320 support men in getting the help that they need. So 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.360 if you didn't listen to that episode, head on back 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.800 to listen to it. Matt is phenomenal. So welcome back. Matt. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.559 Your registered dietitian, but you're also an exercise science specialist 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.840 and you help athletes and individuals improve their relationship to 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:12.080 not just food and exercise. So today I'd love if 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.400 we could talk about how to approach fitness from a 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:19.720 healthy place. Starting out the door with what is exercise addiction? Yeah, totally. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.680 And this is a great topic as well. And actually 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.520 it very much relates to the previous conversation that we 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.640 just had, So I would strongly encourage you to actually 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.680 go back and listen to that because that will help 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:32.479 kind of get chap to speed with some of these 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.840 thought processes. That being said, you know, something that is 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:39.319 really important to this topic is is understanding these categories 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.000 because they can be helpful in some respects and at 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.000 the same time, they might not capture your experience. And 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.200 so and that is actually something that's really important because 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.560 a lot of times people will say, you know, I 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.480 think it's time for a change, or I'm thinking about something. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:54.120 They'll google something and they're like, oh, I don't fit 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.280 that correct here, I'm all good, and they'll move on. 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.520 And so, for instance, with you know, the concept of 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:05.000 extra size addiction, exercise addiction UH is a term that 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.040 is commonplace in our society because the word addiction is 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.680 something that's very much talked about and at the same time, 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.840 from my experience, doesn't necessarily kind of flesh out, you know, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.640 what is going on for an individual. So you know, 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.480 when I talk about these topics, um, it's really important 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.920 to first understand, you know, what is exercise versus physical activity, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.360 because that, you know, it can help people further understand, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.720 you know, what's going on. Because I will talk to 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:32.799 a lot of people and if in my assessments or 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:34.520 when I talk to someone, if I say, you know, 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:36.040 tell me about you know, what you do on a 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.079 weekly basis for exercise, and they're like, oh, you know, 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.000 I don't exercise that much. Maybe I'll go to the jam, 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.519 like you know, three times for an hour or whatever. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:44.840 And so like when you're listening to this, you go, Okay, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.679 you know this person exercise for three hours per a week. 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.640 But if you said, can you tell me about your 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.360 physical activity, they go, well, you know, I only exercise 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.120 like three times a week, but my physical activity, you know, 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.239 I'm hiking all the time, I'm walking, you know, you know, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.240 I take my bike everywhere, etcetera. And they're racking like 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.760 hours on hours of physical activity every single day. That 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.680 wouldn't have been captured if you would just asked about exercise. 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.960 Because people define exercise in a very particular way, and 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.680 for some people is something is not considered exercise unless 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:14.560 they're sweating and their you know, their hearts pumping and 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.760 their muscles are burning. So I talked to a lot 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.240 of people who do like hours of intensive yoga and 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:20.799 like go for these hikes, and they're like, oh, that's 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.600 not exercise, that that's easy. Exercise is when I kill 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.639 myself and CrossFit. So you know, first, if you back 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.840 up for a moment, it's really important to kind of 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.560 think about you know, physical activity exercise, and physical activity 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.880 is just any movement in general that's using your skeletal muscle. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.840 It's not necessarily planned or like intended to try to 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:44.120 improve a fitness quality per se, while exercise, conversely, is 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.440 planned out, it's intended, it's it's designed, you know, in 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.880 many respects to change a particular fitness quality. And so 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.600 that's yeah, yeah, often, so it seems that for people 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.920 to qualify their exercise it needs to be within a 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:01.080 fitness facility, on a piece of equipment as a part 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.400 of their day that is very different from the rest 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.240 of their day. So they're not going to count things 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:09.200 like gardening or walking to the park with their grandchild 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.800 or daughter or son, you know, So that's super interesting 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.240 to just kind of think about the two and why 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.479 people think of them as so differently. Yeah, I mean, 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.640 with all these definitions that we've been talking about, unfortunately, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.000 because of the explosion of information as well as like 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.640 you know, overall distrust and authorities, it's been really fragmented. 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.000 So nowadays people really have their own definition and their 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.159 own symbolic and emotional meaning attached to words. So you 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.440 can talk to like ten different people about exercise and 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.080 they might have ten different definitions of exercise. You can 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.080 talk to ten different people about a carbohydrate or starch 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.800 or health and they'll have ten different definitions. So in 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.440 many instances, people are talking past each other and they're 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.680 essentially talking different languages, which make it really difficult to 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.240 understand kind of what the overall experience might be. And so, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.440 you know, going back to this concept of exercise, addiction, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.760 you know, addiction summons this this very wrong effective term 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.880 that really generates a lot of feelings and emotions and 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.120 immediately people are kind of like a repulse by it, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.839 or they don't feel that way that they're like, I'm addicted, 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.360 you know. And so for instance, if someone said, oh, 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.680 are you struggling with exercise addiction, and the person might say, oh, no, no, 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.560 it's just a lifestyle. I just love being a high 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.360 activity lifestyle. So in that respect, you know, it can 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.440 really miss the mark in a way that we can 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.560 flush this out to help maybe people explore this a 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.039 little bit more. Is once again revisiting that original concept 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.040 that I talked about that the map is not the territory. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.920 So just because these categories are describing particular patterns or 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.880 experiences doesn't mean necessarily it captures everything or it's indicative 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.080 of reality. They're more so describing patterns that might give 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.840 you ideas about what's going on. But it's really key 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.799 to talk to individuals on a personal basis. Now before 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.400 we go into the individual basis and exploring that, going 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.279 back to the categories of archetypical patterns that you might observe, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.640 you know, in the literature, there are some patterns that 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:05.320 have been described, such as exercise dependence or compulsive exercise, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:10.320 or obligatory exercise or excessive exercise, and each one of 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.160 these has some kind of understanding of what's going on. So, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.800 for instance, dependence is usually describing this cluster of cognitive, 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.760 behavioral and like physical symptoms um similar to like substance 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:27.040 use disorders or dependence. So an example might be kind 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.200 of similar how we talk about substances in relation to you. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.680 One takes a dose or you know, engages in a 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.880 certain dose of exercise and they establish a tolerance and 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.000 then they need more and more to obtain the same effect. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.600 When they try to do less exercise, they start to 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.880 experience withdrawal, so they start to feel irritable or off, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.839 and in many respects, this causes them to up the 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:54.440 dose again and exercise more. Oftentimes, there can be moments 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:56.800 where they feel like they have challenges with intentions. So 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.080 for instance, like I'm gonna go, you know, go for 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:00.880 a run for thirty instant, it's like an hour and 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.000 a half later, they're going longer that's intended, and you know, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.000 maybe there's feelings of like lack of control, like I 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.040 can't stop myself, I just need to run more, salience 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.040 like it's it's it's taking up a large part of 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.600 their life. And you know, we can look at like 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.120 how this relate to other activities. Are they're reducing other 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.520 activities so they can exercise more. And then one of 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.600 the key features in terms of like exercise dependence would 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.320 entail that there's continuance and people persist in these behaviors 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.440 even when there's negative side effects. So, for instance, the 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.840 person breaks their ankle and they're still going on runs. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.200 You know, they're not feeling well and they're sick, and 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.640 they're still going out for runs. They feel like they 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.000 can't miss the gym, and you know, they're feeling dizzy, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.760 but they still going out on runs. And so as 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.640 with other forms of dependence, that really depends on the 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.480 context in the person's life because you know, these varying 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.400 levels might not capture their relationship. And so really a 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.440 good question is like, what would happen if you couldn't exercise, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.000 and that will start to you know, flesh out what's 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.800 going on. Yeah, and I know from from sinal experience 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.120 to just humanize kind of what we're talking about here. 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.600 For me, exercise addiction. When I think back on that 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.800 part of my life, I certainly wouldn't have called it 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.800 that then. So looking back, I can tell you that 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.920 it was an addiction for me because I only deserved 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.880 to eat if I worked out, or you know, it 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:21.200 was a compensatory relationship I had with exercise. And food. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.920 It was also the only way that I could create 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.640 serotonin in my brain, meaning when I felt high and 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.840 good on life naturally, the only way I could derive 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.360 that was from exercise. And while that felt really good 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:37.880 at the time, I now know stepping back, that I 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.960 should get joy from micro moments of my life, such 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.040 as sharing a meal with somebody, going for a walk 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.640 that isn't quote unquote exercise, or making my heart pump 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.120 or sweating and all these little things during the day. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.559 And I could not miss a day. And during that 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.600 stage of my life, Matt, you know, I was studying 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.600 to be a nutritionist and my masters was an exercise physiology. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.480 If you told me that I had an exercise addiction, 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.120 that would have felt incredibly confusing, just like many of 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.200 our listeners might feel confused, like my doctor told me 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.680 to get this much in a day, and I'm doing that. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.920 How can what we were told to be good moving 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.560 our bodies, lifting weights, walking, whatever it is, How can 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.400 that become negative the same way healthy eating can be? 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.040 And so how can we know if we're flirting that 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.560 line in the moment rather than being reflective like I 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.200 am now on the past, Yeah, totally and and we 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.959 can certainly explore that because one thing that I think 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.280 that would be important is actually what you just described 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.160 is sounds more along the lines of another kind of 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.840 archetypal kind that I described, such as compulsive exercise, so 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.720 for instance, using exercise persistently and maybe excessively as a 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:52.199 way to relieve anxiety or distress with perceived negative consequences 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.320 from abstaining from the behavior. So for instance, maybe you 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.360 have avoidance or rule trip and behavior or exercise is 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.240 being used as a weaken role mechanism or like you 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.480 have mentioned, a primary means of mood improvement. And then 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.959 maybe there's even elements where even though you don't feel 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.319 good and the exercise is not enjoyable, you still find 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.960 yourself doing it and you're you know, exhibiting this rigidity. 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.439 And so you know, as I had mentioned, with the dependence, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.680 like this is one cluster of maybe a relationship, there's 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:24.040 lots of relationships exercise that are much more compulsive, and 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.600 and they fly into the radar because when someone says, oh, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.640 I'm not feeling good, I need to go out for 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:30.920 a run, people like nice work. That's a really healthy 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.320 way of doing that. But the question would be like, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.439 can you actually feel your emotions and can you process 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.680 them without going for a run. And when the person 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.880 starts to feel like they're having these compulsions to go 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.000 for a run no matter what and they can't feel good, 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.560 it's like, you know, something's beginning to evolve there. And 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.520 I mean, I see this all the time and I've 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.920 been there, and I also kind of have this two 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.439 prong approach to it where I do feel better when 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.360 I moved my body. It's great for my mental wellness 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.199 and my mental health. However, we also hear be will 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.440 say I need to move my body every day to 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.599 feel good, and we clap for both, but there's a 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.040 distinguishing factor of do you take rest days, you know, 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.599 if life gets in the way because of family commitments 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.080 or school commitments, or you're just feeling tired, can you 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.599 take a break and find another way to be okay 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.720 that day. And we have to stop applauding, like you said, yeah, 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.880 that's a healthy behavior, you know, and instead allow people 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.000 to find more ways, more tools in their toolbox to 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.720 get that joy to feel good, to not just be 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.880 out running themselves. And I don't know if this is 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.200 similar for you or not. But for me, exercise was 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.440 exactly what you said away to run away from my 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.000 emotions and my body. And it's interesting because I'm still 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.520 exercising moving my body, but oftentimes when I'm coming to 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.200 that place of I'm going to move my body, even 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.680 though I'm in a kind of crappy place mentally, I 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.760 don't feel like I'm running. I feel like I'm coming 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:57.920 even more in my body. I don't know if that 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.640 makes sense. And so, for instance, of activity is is 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.439 something that is potentially very therapeutic and potentially very transformative 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.280 and and and potentially very life enhancing. You know, when 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.320 we think about, you know, that differentiation between physical activity 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.400 and exercise. The reason why I said that, or another 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.120 reason why I said that, is because people can realize 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.600 the benefits of movement and not necessarily have to fall 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.120 into the societal conception of you know, why is legitimate 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.400 versus what's not? What is exercise versus what's not? And 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.840 in many respects, like you had mentioned, it's overtly seen 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.760 as a good thing. But similar to other things in 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.480 our life, you know, it can throw us out a 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.400 balance if that's the only tool in our tool kits. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.960 So for instance, like emotional eating, Like this is a 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.960 term that's often thrown around is like something negative. But 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.720 you know, in most cultures and throughout time and a 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.280 lot of other areas, like people eat with emotion and 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.960 that's actually part of the experience. So eating with emotion 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.880 or soothing your emotions with food is not necessarily a 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.080 bad thing. Um, same thing with doothing your emotions at 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.160 times with physical activity and moving your body in particular ways. 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.959 The analogy that I often make, you know, to help 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.360 kind of clarify this is so for instance, like let's 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.319 say you had a really long, tough week and you're like, oh, 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.360 you know, that was just a really stressful week. I 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.880 feel like, you know what some retail therapy, and you 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.079 go on to Amazon and you just buy those new 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.240 shoes that you've been uh, you know, iron for a 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.319 while and it comes to your door, and like, hell, yeah, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.000 treat yourself. That was awesome. You know, that feels great. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.000 Nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. Same 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:31.800 thing with all the things that we talked about. The 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.760 question is is every time you get stressed or feel off, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:36.920 do you find yourself loading up your Amazon cart and 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.280 starting to deliver stuff to your door, or reaching for 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.839 that ball of wine, or going for a run, or 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.200 eating as your only ways of coping. If that's you know, 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.800 something that you're observing, the question would be am I 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.400 becoming increasingly dependent on this? Or is it becoming compulsive? 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.400 You know, this is something that we ask ourselves and say, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.200 you know, how does this relate to the other aspects 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.080 of my life? How do I self soothe in ways 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.359 that go beyond on maybe just food and just exercise. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.640 Maybe food and exercise and these things that we're talking 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.280 about can be one thing of many instead of just 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.640 you know, alternating between food and exercise. And unfortunately, in 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:17.600 our society, many people reward these unidimensional relationships with certain things, 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.480 and in many respects it flies into the radar because 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.200 what is often seen as dedication and passion um is 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.680 really compulsion or you know, a feeling of obligation where 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.560 someone has an obligatory exercise pattern where they feel like 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.960 they can't take a day off. They're rigid and you 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.760 know they otherwise they're starting to feel anxious or guilty 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.880 if they missed that day um. Similarly, in excessive exercise, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.680 you know, this is once again very much dependent on perspective, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.400 and you know, what is excessive for one person might 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.240 actually be very much in line with, you know, what 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.360 helps them live their best life. So for instance, like 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:54.520 if you're an Olympic athlete, yeah, you're gonna be exercising 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.480 all the time because that's your job and that's what 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.760 you do. And at the same time, you know, maybe 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.520 you also have another a visual who goes to cross 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.920 fit five times a week and everything else is pretty 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:05.360 well balanced, and this is just kind of, you know, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.280 how they want to live life, and there's nothing wrong. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.320 The question of excessive is are they consistently going over 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.080 their body's capacity to recover mentally and physically. And so 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.119 for instance, if you do that temporarily, that can be beneficial, 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.520 but if you're chronically doing that, it's going to have 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.360 negative effects. So the question be why are you consistent 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.600 going over your capacity to recover? Why are you consistently 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.480 doing more and more and more and and these kind 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.160 of things often fun to the radar because people often 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.360 look at it as a sign of delay, gratification and control. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.680 It's something like that aligns with like maybe Tom Brady, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.560 no days off, um, no pain, no gain when it 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.720 all costs, like, you're doing what it takes to get 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:48.920 to the next level. This is part of your fitness lifestyle. 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.400 And so I think something that we can talk about 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.080 a little bit more is like, well, how do you 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.480 explore this relationship to kind of understand, you know, what's 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.160 working for you versus what's not working for you. Yeah, 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:00.960 And I can tell you as a practitioner, when I 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.400 started my business six years ago and I wanted to 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.680 get my clients who didn't exercise or have much physical 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.160 activity in their life, i'd prescribe them to walk ten 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.400 k steps a day. That was like, you know, just 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.960 get out there and walk tank steps a day. And 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.760 then they'd come back and I started to see how 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.440 unhelpful that advice was because they'd spend a day. I'll 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.720 say it was a Saturday, and it was a male 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.160 client who went golfing for two hours, walked the entire green, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.960 then went kayaking, and when he was done kayaking, he would, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.360 you know, instead of just resting or spending time with 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.560 his family, he had to get those tank steps in 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:38.480 and he felt the pressure to get them in. And 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.280 we talked about it, and I really, you know, learned 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.760 from that experience as to there's not just one way 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.720 to move, and there's not just one way to get 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.960 that exercise in. So, especially as we head into the 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.560 warmer months, I encourage everybody to just kind of recognize 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.920 what feels good today, And it doesn't have to be 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.920 you know, running two miles or six miles or even 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.000 walking in that linear plane that you know we're taught 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.919 is exercise. So explore what feels good. Is it gardening, 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.719 Is it going for a swim, Is it you know, 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.320 just even parking a little bit further and getting to 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.680 going into the grocery store, and that's your quote unquote 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.719 exercise for the day. Allow these things to count without 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.159 counting them, I think could be helpful. So I worked 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.600 with a woman in New York City who I adore dearly, 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.840 a client of mine, and she came to me because 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.960 she was working with a trainer who put her on 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.120 a macro counting diet, and although she was hitting her 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.479 goals quote unquote at the gym, she started to notice 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:44.520 that this restrictive diet was not very different than calorie counting, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.560 something she had already conquered. And I hear this a 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.840 lot when it comes to trainers. Specifically. And that's not 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.600 to say all trainers are bad or or that all 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.240 trainers can't help us be healthy as well as help 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.199 us form a healthy relationship to food an exercise. But 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.840 this is a theme that we can't really ignore. How 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.920 can trainers play a role in keeping us mentally well? 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.119 What are some things that they can do and say 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:15.120 not do and say that can motivate us but not 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.560 steal from our internal knowledge of knowing exactly what we 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.640 need to do when it comes to both food and exercise. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:23.520 I think, in order the best answer this question, we 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:26.719 can actually generalize it to most practitioners as well in 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.960 terms of you know, what we've been talking about. So 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.560 before we delt in, I think it's important to note 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.760 that although physical activity or exercise can be beneficial, it's 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:41.119 not a moral imperative, and it's actually okay if people 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.800 decide to not engage in activity or exercise. And every 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.600 choice that we make has its pros and cons gifts 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.040 and take in, and the same thing with quality of life, 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.560 quantity of life, etcetera. Some people want to live a 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.080 certain lifestyle that they find works best for them, and 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.520 that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If if they decide 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.399 to not exercise at all, sometimes they might invest all 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.000 that time and reading and writing in the arts and 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.560 so at the same time, you know, people might find 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.040 and explore that, like we have been talking about, varying 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.960 degrees of movement might actually enhance their life. So I think, 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.040 you know, going back to the practitioner standpoint, a lot 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.879 of practitioners, especially personal trainers, but also doctors and psychiatrists 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.520 and psychologists often look at the patient as a collection 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.919 of problems to be solved and therefore extend you know, 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:34.360 the life experience as a collection of problems to be solved, 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.119 when in actuality, you know, although it is nice to 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.119 maybe change certain things in our lives or quote unquote 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.360 overcome a certain problem, life as core, you know, one 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.160 might argue, is a reality to be experienced. And if 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.439 we're always focusing on having versus have not and always 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.600 focusing on solving problems, um at the core in many respects, 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.960 we're not allowing ourselves to experience our day to day moments, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.440 in our day to day being and in had are 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.840 perpetually in the state of lack and trying to view 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.240 ourselves as lacking and as a project to be completed 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.800 and as you know, a problem to be solved, and 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.040 when you begin to view yourself in that manner um, 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:15.679 it can really rob us of the other dimensions of 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.040 life that you know, can often make movement really enjoyable. So, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.360 for instance, if we approach movement and physical activity has 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:27.280 simply you know, stimulus response, question, answer, problem solution, I'm 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.439 feeling this way and I want to feel differently, it 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.760