1 00:00:15,036 --> 00:00:22,036 Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey, Lost Hills listeners, it's Dana. I wanted to 2 00:00:22,076 --> 00:00:24,196 Speaker 1: let you know that you can hear the entire new 3 00:00:24,236 --> 00:00:27,556 Speaker 1: season of Lost Hills ad free, along with other great 4 00:00:27,596 --> 00:00:31,836 Speaker 1: binge listens by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin 5 00:00:31,916 --> 00:00:35,156 Speaker 1: Plus on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts, 6 00:00:35,316 --> 00:00:46,556 Speaker 1: or at pushkin dot fm Slash Plus. Mickey Dora, the 7 00:00:46,636 --> 00:00:50,076 Speaker 1: Dark Prince, had vanished from Malibu in nineteen seventy four, 8 00:00:50,596 --> 00:00:54,716 Speaker 1: but he didn't disappear from the surf world's collective consciousness. 9 00:00:54,756 --> 00:00:57,676 Speaker 1: Everybody wanted to know where the so called King of 10 00:00:57,756 --> 00:01:02,036 Speaker 1: Surfers was. Some people claim to have spotted him surfing 11 00:01:02,396 --> 00:01:05,756 Speaker 1: in California. Others said he'd given up the surf life 12 00:01:05,796 --> 00:01:09,676 Speaker 1: and was a lawyer in Century City. The article Curse 13 00:01:09,716 --> 00:01:13,196 Speaker 1: of the Shumash said, quote in nineteen seventy five, he's 14 00:01:13,236 --> 00:01:16,556 Speaker 1: so conspicuous in his absence that there were collective group 15 00:01:16,596 --> 00:01:22,076 Speaker 1: hallucinations in which numerous sycophants saw his illusionistic presence unquote. 16 00:01:23,076 --> 00:01:26,036 Speaker 1: Someone kept tagging the Wallet surf rider with the words 17 00:01:26,476 --> 00:01:34,156 Speaker 1: Dora lives. Was Mickey Dora dead? Not possible. He was 18 00:01:34,196 --> 00:01:38,236 Speaker 1: sending letters postmarked from all over the world from anywhere 19 00:01:38,276 --> 00:01:42,796 Speaker 1: but where he actually was. A few years into Mickey's 20 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:48,436 Speaker 1: Vanishing act, two young surfers set out to find him there. 21 00:01:49,156 --> 00:01:54,116 Speaker 2: It is Craig Kevin, and this is Mickey. How's that 22 00:01:54,236 --> 00:01:56,876 Speaker 2: this is my son's T shirt? They had to wear 23 00:01:57,036 --> 00:01:58,836 Speaker 2: even though it's my son's. You got to take a picture. 24 00:02:01,236 --> 00:02:05,156 Speaker 1: Kevin Naughton and Craig Peterson are pushing seventy now, still surfing, 25 00:02:05,476 --> 00:02:08,916 Speaker 1: still close friends. I met them at Kevin's house in 26 00:02:08,916 --> 00:02:12,316 Speaker 1: the Buna Beach, California. Kevin greeted me wearing a T 27 00:02:12,476 --> 00:02:14,956 Speaker 1: shirt printed with a photo of Mickey flipping off the 28 00:02:14,956 --> 00:02:18,156 Speaker 1: camera at Malibu in nineteen sixty three. 29 00:02:18,556 --> 00:02:24,196 Speaker 2: I'm Kevin Naughton, and I used to be a surf journalist, 30 00:02:24,356 --> 00:02:28,316 Speaker 2: mostly for Surfer Magazine, traveling around the world and writing 31 00:02:28,356 --> 00:02:33,676 Speaker 2: stories of great venture tales for about our travels. 32 00:02:34,876 --> 00:02:38,956 Speaker 3: And I'm Craig Peterson. I was the photographer staff photographer 33 00:02:38,956 --> 00:02:42,236 Speaker 3: for Surfer Magazine for over a decade and during our 34 00:02:42,556 --> 00:02:44,796 Speaker 3: surf travels back in the seventies and eighties. 35 00:02:46,396 --> 00:02:48,196 Speaker 1: We made our way into the living room and I 36 00:02:48,276 --> 00:02:51,356 Speaker 1: noticed a photograph leaning against the wall. It was a 37 00:02:51,396 --> 00:02:54,156 Speaker 1: picture of Kevin, his back to the camera, sitting on 38 00:02:54,196 --> 00:02:57,156 Speaker 1: a bench looking out at the Bay of Biscay in 39 00:02:57,196 --> 00:03:01,196 Speaker 1: the south of France. The waves are peeling in perfect, clean, 40 00:03:01,556 --> 00:03:05,716 Speaker 1: mostly right breaking lines, and there's not a single surfer out. 41 00:03:06,956 --> 00:03:09,076 Speaker 2: See that photo there. That's where we first met Mick. 42 00:03:10,116 --> 00:03:13,916 Speaker 2: That's when we met Mickey at Guitary And this is 43 00:03:13,956 --> 00:03:17,636 Speaker 2: something that will never You'll never see again in your 44 00:03:17,716 --> 00:03:21,196 Speaker 2: lives or anybody's lives from now until the end of time. 45 00:03:21,756 --> 00:03:24,476 Speaker 2: There's empty perfect gitory as perfect as it. 46 00:03:24,516 --> 00:03:29,316 Speaker 1: Gainst Gitori is a small fishing village on the Basque 47 00:03:29,316 --> 00:03:32,196 Speaker 1: coast between Beerret's and Saint Jean Balous. 48 00:03:33,916 --> 00:03:36,636 Speaker 2: So oftentimes I would look at it and just to 49 00:03:36,676 --> 00:03:39,676 Speaker 2: think that it's almost like going through a portal into 50 00:03:39,716 --> 00:03:42,156 Speaker 2: another world, to look at the photo. World that will 51 00:03:42,156 --> 00:03:44,556 Speaker 2: never come back. But we were a part of it. 52 00:03:44,596 --> 00:03:47,356 Speaker 2: And then this is probably within the same week that 53 00:03:47,396 --> 00:03:51,396 Speaker 2: we had met Mickey in nineteen seventy seven, and it's 54 00:03:51,436 --> 00:03:54,596 Speaker 2: a phenomena that only surfers really could appreciate, to see 55 00:03:54,596 --> 00:03:57,636 Speaker 2: a way this good, at a spot this famous and 56 00:03:57,676 --> 00:04:00,636 Speaker 2: no one out, And this was Mickey's spot. 57 00:04:01,836 --> 00:04:06,676 Speaker 1: Here in France. Mickey had found a new Malibu Gitori 58 00:04:06,756 --> 00:04:10,236 Speaker 1: in the seventies was a surfer's paradise. It was hidden, 59 00:04:10,356 --> 00:04:13,596 Speaker 1: tucked away off the radar, and it had a perfect 60 00:04:13,676 --> 00:04:16,436 Speaker 1: right breaking wave, Mickey's kind of wave. 61 00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:19,996 Speaker 2: So we served it with him quite a few times, 62 00:04:20,036 --> 00:04:22,196 Speaker 2: and quite a few times it would just be the 63 00:04:22,236 --> 00:04:24,196 Speaker 2: three of us, that's just us. 64 00:04:24,036 --> 00:04:31,276 Speaker 1: Out in France, Mickey was unexpectedly mellow, no measure schmidting 65 00:04:31,316 --> 00:04:35,156 Speaker 1: other surfers or posturing with his Nazi surfboard, and he'd 66 00:04:35,196 --> 00:04:37,996 Speaker 1: left his SS trench coat behind in the storage unit 67 00:04:38,036 --> 00:04:41,396 Speaker 1: in New Zealand there was no one around to intimidate anyway. 68 00:04:42,676 --> 00:04:44,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was nice to get to know him in 69 00:04:44,196 --> 00:04:47,476 Speaker 2: some place other than Malibu, were he was so entrenched. 70 00:04:47,516 --> 00:04:52,076 Speaker 2: He was so ingrained there that it was like his 71 00:04:52,836 --> 00:04:57,676 Speaker 2: little personal fortress or fiefdom. And when France were all 72 00:04:57,716 --> 00:05:01,396 Speaker 2: there sort of on this neutral were in Swiss neutral country. 73 00:05:01,156 --> 00:05:04,516 Speaker 1: He would have poured the boiling oil on you in Maliboumi, yeah. 74 00:05:04,396 --> 00:05:06,756 Speaker 2: Right, Whereas in France it was more like it was this, 75 00:05:06,796 --> 00:05:09,636 Speaker 2: we're in neutral ground. Everyone was more on neque footing, 76 00:05:10,596 --> 00:05:12,756 Speaker 2: and that's how you felt when you were around in there. 77 00:05:14,356 --> 00:05:17,356 Speaker 1: But Kevin and Craig were not just twenty something meters 78 00:05:17,436 --> 00:05:21,316 Speaker 1: surf nomads stoked to find a kindred spirit. They were 79 00:05:21,316 --> 00:05:26,116 Speaker 1: traveling on assignment, and their assignment was to find Mickey 80 00:05:26,556 --> 00:05:31,676 Speaker 1: and report back to their boss at Surfer Magazine. Turns 81 00:05:31,676 --> 00:05:36,436 Speaker 1: out finding Mickey would be the easy part. The hard 82 00:05:36,476 --> 00:05:43,876 Speaker 1: part would be getting away. I'm Dana Goodyear and this 83 00:05:44,756 --> 00:06:18,076 Speaker 1: is Lost Hills, Episode nine. The Fall Guys. Kevin and 84 00:06:18,156 --> 00:06:21,796 Speaker 1: Craig got their start young. They published their first piece 85 00:06:21,916 --> 00:06:25,796 Speaker 1: in Surfer in nineteen seventy three when they were still teenagers. 86 00:06:26,916 --> 00:06:29,676 Speaker 1: And the two of you were a team. 87 00:06:29,876 --> 00:06:33,236 Speaker 2: Act right right, We're a photojournalist team. And the funny 88 00:06:33,236 --> 00:06:35,476 Speaker 2: thing is Craig needed someone to take photos of somebody 89 00:06:35,516 --> 00:06:38,116 Speaker 2: you could surf. He was a good photographer. I was 90 00:06:38,116 --> 00:06:42,276 Speaker 2: a good surfer, and we both like adventure and searching 91 00:06:42,316 --> 00:06:43,036 Speaker 2: for good waves. 92 00:06:43,396 --> 00:06:46,276 Speaker 3: A bonus too that Kevin was a good writer, so 93 00:06:46,316 --> 00:06:48,996 Speaker 3: we could write the stories and send them back to 94 00:06:49,076 --> 00:06:50,716 Speaker 3: Surfer Magazine. 95 00:06:51,916 --> 00:06:55,316 Speaker 1: The pictures of them from this time are classic. Craig 96 00:06:55,436 --> 00:06:58,796 Speaker 1: with his shoulder length blonde hair and Jesus Beard wearing 97 00:06:58,836 --> 00:07:01,636 Speaker 1: his frame backpack, a surfboard under one arm and a 98 00:07:01,636 --> 00:07:05,316 Speaker 1: silver briefcase full of photo equipment under the other. Kevin 99 00:07:05,356 --> 00:07:07,796 Speaker 1: with a Duffel bag and a board and a curly mane. 100 00:07:09,116 --> 00:07:11,956 Speaker 1: Heaven and Craig filed dispatches from all over the world 101 00:07:12,236 --> 00:07:15,716 Speaker 1: under the heading the Further Misadventures of Kevin Naughton and 102 00:07:15,796 --> 00:07:19,436 Speaker 1: Craig Peterson. Early on they wrote about a surf trip 103 00:07:19,476 --> 00:07:23,196 Speaker 1: to Al Salvador, Nicaragua and Costa Rica. At the time, 104 00:07:23,516 --> 00:07:25,796 Speaker 1: it was Tara incognita for surfers. 105 00:07:26,916 --> 00:07:29,836 Speaker 2: Surfer said, hey, you readers love this stuff. This is 106 00:07:30,516 --> 00:07:34,476 Speaker 2: really popular because at that point you time, you're mefor 107 00:07:34,756 --> 00:07:37,156 Speaker 2: think that most of the articles you saw in the 108 00:07:37,196 --> 00:07:42,596 Speaker 2: magazines were about Hawaii or California, you know, maybe Australia 109 00:07:42,636 --> 00:07:44,396 Speaker 2: once in a while, but that was kind of it. 110 00:07:44,956 --> 00:07:47,916 Speaker 2: So we kind of opened up this kind of window 111 00:07:47,956 --> 00:07:50,196 Speaker 2: of hey, there's a lot of surf adventure out there 112 00:07:50,596 --> 00:07:53,956 Speaker 2: to be done in Surfer. To their credit, they recognized 113 00:07:53,956 --> 00:07:56,516 Speaker 2: that and said, hey, you know, what, where do you 114 00:07:56,516 --> 00:07:59,476 Speaker 2: guys want to go next? You know, and because this. 115 00:07:59,516 --> 00:08:03,996 Speaker 1: Is working, their timing was good. Surfing had fully taken 116 00:08:04,036 --> 00:08:08,316 Speaker 1: off in California and the breaks were crowded. Here's Craig. 117 00:08:09,516 --> 00:08:13,356 Speaker 3: Malibu was crowded, Huntington, all these places. So when I 118 00:08:13,396 --> 00:08:15,316 Speaker 3: approached Surfer magazine, and said, hey, we want to go 119 00:08:15,396 --> 00:08:17,276 Speaker 3: down and try to find some waves down in Central 120 00:08:17,276 --> 00:08:19,596 Speaker 3: America and see who we can find. They kind of 121 00:08:19,596 --> 00:08:21,076 Speaker 3: didn't know what to make of it. They knew that 122 00:08:21,116 --> 00:08:23,636 Speaker 3: there was probably good waves there, but it was like, well, 123 00:08:23,676 --> 00:08:26,116 Speaker 3: we don't know how many articles will do or get 124 00:08:26,116 --> 00:08:27,916 Speaker 3: out of it, so let's just see what happens. 125 00:08:29,236 --> 00:08:32,316 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig traveled to West Africa, the Canary Islands, 126 00:08:32,356 --> 00:08:36,156 Speaker 1: the Caribbean, and back through Central America, publishing stories as 127 00:08:36,196 --> 00:08:42,156 Speaker 1: they went. When they returned home, Surfer Magazine asked them 128 00:08:42,156 --> 00:08:45,356 Speaker 1: where they were headed next. Kevin and Craig were hoping 129 00:08:45,396 --> 00:08:49,196 Speaker 1: to explore the unknown surf spots of Europe. They pitched 130 00:08:49,196 --> 00:08:51,756 Speaker 1: a trip to Portugal, Ireland and France. 131 00:08:52,836 --> 00:08:54,996 Speaker 2: So Surfer kind of scratched their heads and said okay. 132 00:08:55,676 --> 00:08:58,516 Speaker 2: And then right before we left, it was one priceless 133 00:08:58,516 --> 00:09:01,236 Speaker 2: moment where the editor called or publisher called, was into 134 00:09:01,276 --> 00:09:03,596 Speaker 2: his office and he said, okay, you guys are going 135 00:09:03,596 --> 00:09:05,676 Speaker 2: to France, and we know Mickey Dorr is hanging out 136 00:09:05,676 --> 00:09:08,436 Speaker 2: in France. He's been dropped off the radar now for 137 00:09:08,636 --> 00:09:11,516 Speaker 2: a few years and no one's heard anything of him 138 00:09:11,876 --> 00:09:14,756 Speaker 2: or from him. But we know he's there, and you 139 00:09:14,796 --> 00:09:18,396 Speaker 2: guys are going there and no matter what, you know, 140 00:09:18,596 --> 00:09:19,356 Speaker 2: what did he say to you? 141 00:09:20,156 --> 00:09:22,956 Speaker 3: He said, if Mickey even farts, I want a picture 142 00:09:22,996 --> 00:09:23,236 Speaker 3: of it. 143 00:09:24,756 --> 00:09:28,236 Speaker 2: That's how much they wanted coverage of Mickey. Right. Of course, 144 00:09:28,836 --> 00:09:31,356 Speaker 2: he was one of our surf finals from the sixties, 145 00:09:31,756 --> 00:09:33,876 Speaker 2: so we were all stoked a chance to meet him. 146 00:09:34,236 --> 00:09:35,916 Speaker 2: So we said, okay, we're on it. 147 00:09:38,436 --> 00:09:41,676 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig had grown up on Dora stories. He 148 00:09:41,796 --> 00:09:44,636 Speaker 1: was legendary, not just for his surfing, but for his 149 00:09:44,716 --> 00:09:49,516 Speaker 1: celebrity surfer persona, the elegant, vicious prankster who'd show up 150 00:09:49,516 --> 00:09:51,756 Speaker 1: to the beach in tennis whites, built a kid out 151 00:09:51,756 --> 00:09:54,796 Speaker 1: of twenty bucks and drive off in a lotus. 152 00:09:55,196 --> 00:09:58,596 Speaker 2: He had this genes sikuah, this air about him. He 153 00:09:58,636 --> 00:10:02,876 Speaker 2: had this more than just the surfer persona. He had 154 00:10:03,116 --> 00:10:07,756 Speaker 2: another persona that he took, you know, all the way 155 00:10:07,876 --> 00:10:10,316 Speaker 2: on the land. It's not just in the water. The cat, 156 00:10:10,396 --> 00:10:11,676 Speaker 2: you know, the mysterious cat. 157 00:10:13,196 --> 00:10:15,636 Speaker 1: It made sense that Mickey had fetched up in France, 158 00:10:16,516 --> 00:10:20,636 Speaker 1: quietly on the surf world's Whispernet, that stretch of Basque 159 00:10:20,676 --> 00:10:25,196 Speaker 1: coastline that included Saint Jean Valou's Gitory and Beeritz was 160 00:10:25,236 --> 00:10:29,636 Speaker 1: becoming known as the next great spot. It was California 161 00:10:29,796 --> 00:10:33,756 Speaker 1: as it used to be before Gidget, before the crowds. 162 00:10:34,476 --> 00:10:37,076 Speaker 1: It's probably why Mickey was so relaxed. 163 00:10:37,836 --> 00:10:40,756 Speaker 2: Everyone at that point surfers in California had been to 164 00:10:40,796 --> 00:10:44,356 Speaker 2: France or braving about how much it was like California 165 00:10:44,396 --> 00:10:50,116 Speaker 2: in terms of climate food waves. So the word was 166 00:10:50,156 --> 00:10:54,076 Speaker 2: out from like nineteen sixty nine on that France was 167 00:10:54,076 --> 00:10:57,076 Speaker 2: a cool place to be in. Mickey just was one 168 00:10:57,076 --> 00:10:58,556 Speaker 2: of the first guys there hanging out. 169 00:11:00,036 --> 00:11:04,556 Speaker 1: It was the ultimate assignment surf largely undiscovered waves in 170 00:11:04,596 --> 00:11:08,636 Speaker 1: an idyllic place the next Malibu, and in the process 171 00:11:08,836 --> 00:11:12,796 Speaker 1: meet the most mysterious figure in surfing who you've worshiped 172 00:11:12,876 --> 00:11:17,916 Speaker 1: since childhood. Kevin and Craig were in They made it 173 00:11:17,956 --> 00:11:20,236 Speaker 1: to the south of France in the fall of nineteen 174 00:11:20,276 --> 00:11:20,996 Speaker 1: seventy seven. 175 00:11:27,956 --> 00:11:29,916 Speaker 2: It was late in the season, I think around November, 176 00:11:30,556 --> 00:11:33,516 Speaker 2: so all the surfers that had been there kind of 177 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:36,116 Speaker 2: cleared out. There was this surfer migration at the time 178 00:11:36,156 --> 00:11:39,396 Speaker 2: where everybody kind of moved on from France down through 179 00:11:39,476 --> 00:11:42,116 Speaker 2: Spain and Portugal and went to Morocco for the winter. 180 00:11:42,316 --> 00:11:45,316 Speaker 2: It was nice and warm, so everybody was gone, and 181 00:11:45,316 --> 00:11:47,316 Speaker 2: we pulled in in a kind of a stormy, cloudy 182 00:11:47,396 --> 00:11:51,276 Speaker 2: day to get to ree and lo and behold, there 183 00:11:51,316 --> 00:11:55,116 Speaker 2: in the parking lot was Mickey's big green Mercedes then 184 00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:59,476 Speaker 2: and you know, outsteps Mickey looks at us. It was 185 00:11:59,556 --> 00:12:01,356 Speaker 2: just Mickey and us in the parking lot, you know, 186 00:12:01,436 --> 00:12:01,996 Speaker 2: no one else. 187 00:12:03,756 --> 00:12:06,436 Speaker 1: Mickey spotted the surfboards tied to the top of their car. 188 00:12:07,076 --> 00:12:10,236 Speaker 1: He came over and they could feel him sizing them up. 189 00:12:11,036 --> 00:12:13,396 Speaker 1: He could tell right away that Kevin and Craig were 190 00:12:13,396 --> 00:12:16,796 Speaker 1: from California, and he invited them to surf with him. 191 00:12:17,996 --> 00:12:20,476 Speaker 3: He's a you know, a little bit of a initially 192 00:12:20,756 --> 00:12:24,916 Speaker 3: shy guy, cautious, but you know, approachable in that way. 193 00:12:25,356 --> 00:12:28,996 Speaker 3: And I kind of think he already knew who we 194 00:12:28,996 --> 00:12:33,036 Speaker 3: were from our previous articles on surf travel and misadventure theory. 195 00:12:33,156 --> 00:12:36,076 Speaker 2: So absolutely he did. Because after a few days of 196 00:12:36,116 --> 00:12:39,316 Speaker 2: hanging around in his Mercedes Van, he was feeding us 197 00:12:39,316 --> 00:12:41,916 Speaker 2: from this bottomless pot of stew that he would just 198 00:12:42,276 --> 00:12:45,356 Speaker 2: keep throwing whatever he had into the stew. It never emptied, 199 00:12:45,396 --> 00:12:47,876 Speaker 2: it never ended. It was great for us because he, 200 00:12:48,436 --> 00:12:50,516 Speaker 2: you know, he always offered us something in the vent 201 00:12:50,596 --> 00:12:53,476 Speaker 2: and come in for surf or freezing and get some 202 00:12:53,556 --> 00:12:54,476 Speaker 2: of his stew and talk. 203 00:12:57,076 --> 00:12:59,876 Speaker 1: As far as the surfer assignment was concerned, they were 204 00:12:59,956 --> 00:13:02,956 Speaker 1: killing it. They'd surfed with Mickey, They'd hung out in 205 00:13:02,996 --> 00:13:05,156 Speaker 1: his van, they were gaining trust. 206 00:13:06,556 --> 00:13:08,956 Speaker 2: And then finally, after about a week of this, you know, 207 00:13:08,996 --> 00:13:11,436 Speaker 2: the other shoe dropped and Micky said, Okay, look at 208 00:13:11,516 --> 00:13:14,876 Speaker 2: I know who you guys are. You know, and you 209 00:13:14,916 --> 00:13:16,956 Speaker 2: guys have done a bunch of star for surfer. I 210 00:13:17,036 --> 00:13:21,236 Speaker 2: read your articles, I've seen your stories, and here's the deal. 211 00:13:21,836 --> 00:13:24,516 Speaker 2: You know, I know you're here. You've probably been told 212 00:13:24,556 --> 00:13:27,316 Speaker 2: to take photos of me and write something about me, 213 00:13:27,516 --> 00:13:31,116 Speaker 2: because I just can tell. You said, but here's the 214 00:13:31,156 --> 00:13:33,356 Speaker 2: deal I'll do. You guys are as broke as can 215 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:36,116 Speaker 2: be broker than any surfers I've ever run across, which 216 00:13:36,196 --> 00:13:40,116 Speaker 2: was typical for surf journalists at the time, And you said, 217 00:13:40,156 --> 00:13:44,036 Speaker 2: I'll make you a bargain. I'll feed you on this 218 00:13:44,116 --> 00:13:46,436 Speaker 2: pot of great stew I have going to my Mercedes 219 00:13:47,156 --> 00:13:49,516 Speaker 2: all the time. As much as you want, doors always open, 220 00:13:49,516 --> 00:13:52,436 Speaker 2: you're always welcoming, You're always ready to have a ball 221 00:13:52,556 --> 00:13:56,236 Speaker 2: of a stew on the condition that you don't take 222 00:13:56,276 --> 00:13:58,756 Speaker 2: any photos of me, and you don't write anything about me. 223 00:13:59,516 --> 00:14:01,036 Speaker 2: And if you're going to try to take photos and 224 00:14:01,036 --> 00:14:02,956 Speaker 2: you're going to try to write about me, get out 225 00:14:02,996 --> 00:14:05,036 Speaker 2: of the van right now and get out of my life. 226 00:14:05,916 --> 00:14:10,116 Speaker 2: What's it going to be? So it was like this 227 00:14:10,596 --> 00:14:12,876 Speaker 2: ten second of pause. You know, Craig I looked at 228 00:14:12,916 --> 00:14:16,396 Speaker 2: each other. Well, you know what, remember what best remember 229 00:14:16,396 --> 00:14:21,956 Speaker 2: your tolgienced surfer. We thought, uh, well Mickey uh never parted? Yeah, yeah, 230 00:14:22,076 --> 00:14:25,316 Speaker 2: Hannah is a bull of that stew. Yeah. 231 00:14:25,476 --> 00:14:28,596 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig decided to ignore their assignment for surfer 232 00:14:28,876 --> 00:14:33,276 Speaker 1: in favor of something more sustaining. The stew was good 233 00:14:34,276 --> 00:14:38,596 Speaker 1: and a lifetime supply of Mickey stories that would be 234 00:14:38,676 --> 00:14:39,636 Speaker 1: totally worth it. 235 00:14:50,636 --> 00:14:52,876 Speaker 2: We took his offer up on the stew and Craig 236 00:14:52,916 --> 00:14:54,996 Speaker 2: didn't take any photos of him, and I never wrote 237 00:14:54,996 --> 00:14:57,916 Speaker 2: about him. But we all hung out together and surf together, 238 00:14:57,996 --> 00:15:01,356 Speaker 2: and you know, through New Year's and Christmas and had 239 00:15:01,396 --> 00:15:04,076 Speaker 2: a great time surf in incredible ways through that winner. 240 00:15:04,156 --> 00:15:06,996 Speaker 2: It was just an epic winner of surf in France, 241 00:15:07,036 --> 00:15:11,156 Speaker 2: and you know, nobody was around except seemed like Mickey 242 00:15:11,196 --> 00:15:14,236 Speaker 2: and us. And that was it, really, that was it. 243 00:15:15,636 --> 00:15:18,756 Speaker 1: When Kevin and Craig met him. Mickey was alone, and 244 00:15:18,796 --> 00:15:22,156 Speaker 1: he was hiding. He was evading any number of angry 245 00:15:22,236 --> 00:15:26,876 Speaker 1: innkeepers and restauranteurs and antiques dealers, having burned bridges from 246 00:15:26,876 --> 00:15:30,676 Speaker 1: Hong Kong to Nairobi. There was a bench warrant out 247 00:15:30,676 --> 00:15:33,916 Speaker 1: for him in California, a federal warrant for the alleged 248 00:15:33,956 --> 00:15:38,196 Speaker 1: passport fraud, and another federal warrant for allegedly defrauding the 249 00:15:38,236 --> 00:15:43,556 Speaker 1: Diners Club of nearly twenty thousand dollars. Interpol was looking 250 00:15:43,556 --> 00:15:48,396 Speaker 1: for him too. Add to that, Linda had left. She 251 00:15:48,556 --> 00:15:53,156 Speaker 1: was exhausted, sick of fighting, sick of running, and she 252 00:15:53,276 --> 00:15:56,516 Speaker 1: told authorities she was afraid of Mickey. He was so 253 00:15:56,716 --> 00:15:59,396 Speaker 1: paranoid she'd run away from him in the middle of 254 00:15:59,436 --> 00:16:03,556 Speaker 1: the night. A couple of wide eyed surfers from SoCal 255 00:16:03,836 --> 00:16:05,756 Speaker 1: were the perfect distraction for Mickey. 256 00:16:07,836 --> 00:16:09,996 Speaker 2: You know, he was so entertaining. I mean, it's hard 257 00:16:10,036 --> 00:16:13,516 Speaker 2: to describe. He seemed to like company. You know, he 258 00:16:13,596 --> 00:16:16,196 Speaker 2: wasn't like he was a recluse or hermit, or he 259 00:16:16,316 --> 00:16:20,556 Speaker 2: wasn't completely antisocial. He was actually quite social. But he 260 00:16:21,796 --> 00:16:23,596 Speaker 2: it was almost like a big game for him all 261 00:16:23,596 --> 00:16:27,756 Speaker 2: the time. You know, the social interaction with people. He 262 00:16:28,756 --> 00:16:31,436 Speaker 2: had a wicked sense of humor and he liked to 263 00:16:31,516 --> 00:16:32,276 Speaker 2: keep it sharpened. 264 00:16:34,716 --> 00:16:37,476 Speaker 1: Mickey was as quick as ever mentally, and for a 265 00:16:37,476 --> 00:16:42,396 Speaker 1: guy in his mid forties, he was surfing well. 266 00:16:41,396 --> 00:16:44,116 Speaker 3: At that time, in the fall of seventy seven. Mickey 267 00:16:44,236 --> 00:16:48,476 Speaker 3: was very athletic still, you know, a great surfer, had 268 00:16:48,596 --> 00:16:54,196 Speaker 3: his classic style, and we never really saw him physically 269 00:16:54,236 --> 00:16:56,636 Speaker 3: surfing at Malibu. We did see it in movies and 270 00:16:56,756 --> 00:16:59,196 Speaker 3: later on times, but you could definitely tell it was 271 00:16:59,236 --> 00:17:01,836 Speaker 3: Mickey outsurfing, you know the ways when he was out 272 00:17:01,836 --> 00:17:02,476 Speaker 3: in water. 273 00:17:03,716 --> 00:17:05,996 Speaker 1: Hanging out with Mickey, Kevin and Craig got to know 274 00:17:06,076 --> 00:17:09,836 Speaker 1: his quirks. Mickey was convinced the world was going to hell, 275 00:17:10,316 --> 00:17:11,596 Speaker 1: starting with his own body. 276 00:17:12,636 --> 00:17:15,516 Speaker 2: I remember him also as being somewhat of a hyperchondriac. 277 00:17:16,116 --> 00:17:18,476 Speaker 2: Remember he had a shelf of pills he would take 278 00:17:19,116 --> 00:17:22,036 Speaker 2: every day, and Mickey winter, all these pills or my 279 00:17:22,116 --> 00:17:27,676 Speaker 2: knees are popping, and he had pills for every conceivable ailment, 280 00:17:27,836 --> 00:17:30,476 Speaker 2: and he was taking them all the time. He did 281 00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:35,996 Speaker 2: complain a lot about knees popping and backs hurting, and 282 00:17:36,196 --> 00:17:39,076 Speaker 2: a little prematurely, you know, because for my opinion, now, 283 00:17:39,076 --> 00:17:41,716 Speaker 2: because he would have been in his forties then, and 284 00:17:41,836 --> 00:17:43,996 Speaker 2: you know that seems like, wow, that's he's still in 285 00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:46,516 Speaker 2: your prime now to be now, but he was already 286 00:17:46,556 --> 00:17:47,756 Speaker 2: complaining quite a bit then. 287 00:17:50,316 --> 00:17:53,436 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig were broke and traveling light. They had 288 00:17:53,436 --> 00:17:57,996 Speaker 1: T shirts and jeans. Micky was always dressed to the nines. 289 00:17:58,996 --> 00:18:01,156 Speaker 1: Even if he was a little threadbare from his years 290 00:18:01,156 --> 00:18:04,876 Speaker 1: on the run living in a van, Mickey was still dapper. 291 00:18:05,916 --> 00:18:08,316 Speaker 3: I think it's a lot why the French liked him 292 00:18:08,356 --> 00:18:10,396 Speaker 3: so much, because you really would, you know, make an 293 00:18:10,396 --> 00:18:13,676 Speaker 3: effort to you know, look his best. You know, had 294 00:18:13,676 --> 00:18:17,916 Speaker 3: that classic California rogue look to him. 295 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:20,196 Speaker 2: You know. We was coming up to New Year's at 296 00:18:20,276 --> 00:18:24,396 Speaker 2: the party time and there's parties here and there. He said, hey, guys, 297 00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:26,316 Speaker 2: what do you think of this one? I'm ready for anything. 298 00:18:26,436 --> 00:18:30,916 Speaker 2: He broke out this jacket right and it was you know, 299 00:18:30,916 --> 00:18:32,716 Speaker 2: he had some white pants on and he had the 300 00:18:32,756 --> 00:18:36,396 Speaker 2: white jacket. Mickey, that's pretty spiffy, you know, white on white. 301 00:18:36,436 --> 00:18:38,996 Speaker 2: You're ready for stepping out? Said yeah, but watch this 302 00:18:39,436 --> 00:18:41,116 Speaker 2: just in case I go to a different party that 303 00:18:41,156 --> 00:18:43,556 Speaker 2: has a kind of a different scene happening. Watched this 304 00:18:43,636 --> 00:18:45,676 Speaker 2: and he think the jacket he turned it inside out 305 00:18:45,836 --> 00:18:52,476 Speaker 2: and it was leopardskin. So what leverskin. It could be 306 00:18:52,516 --> 00:18:54,876 Speaker 2: a leverskin jacket, or it could be a white jacket, 307 00:18:55,236 --> 00:18:57,396 Speaker 2: depending on what party it was you were going to. 308 00:18:57,476 --> 00:18:59,836 Speaker 2: And he loved that. He just loved the fact that 309 00:18:59,876 --> 00:19:03,156 Speaker 2: he could kind of go and switch personas from party 310 00:19:03,156 --> 00:19:03,676 Speaker 2: to party. 311 00:19:06,836 --> 00:19:09,236 Speaker 1: During this time, Mickey was living in his van the 312 00:19:09,276 --> 00:19:13,276 Speaker 1: Gittory parking lot. But Mickey's van wasn't just any van. 313 00:19:14,156 --> 00:19:17,916 Speaker 1: It was a gigantic, late model, dark green Mercedes camper. 314 00:19:18,636 --> 00:19:21,836 Speaker 1: It was his home, his safe place, and also his 315 00:19:22,036 --> 00:19:25,796 Speaker 1: escape plan. If anyone closed in, or if the surf 316 00:19:25,836 --> 00:19:27,996 Speaker 1: started sucking or the water got too cold, then he 317 00:19:28,076 --> 00:19:32,036 Speaker 1: wanted to move on. One of Mickey's girlfriends told Mickey's 318 00:19:32,076 --> 00:19:36,476 Speaker 1: biographer that van was Mickey. It had his heart's soul, 319 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:40,516 Speaker 1: story travels, his secrets, which were in a black briefcase. 320 00:19:41,236 --> 00:19:44,036 Speaker 1: Also his scent, which was quite like a lion. 321 00:19:45,116 --> 00:19:47,556 Speaker 2: Mercedes Dan was something else. It was state of the 322 00:19:47,676 --> 00:19:51,276 Speaker 2: art mess of surfers that had these converted VW vans 323 00:19:51,276 --> 00:19:54,076 Speaker 2: in that and this one thing was sizable. It was 324 00:19:54,636 --> 00:19:57,916 Speaker 2: you know, like a motor home size kitchen there. Oh yeah, 325 00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:01,596 Speaker 2: kitchen bed, the whole works. You know, it had everything 326 00:20:01,636 --> 00:20:04,876 Speaker 2: you would see in a Winnebago, but with that great 327 00:20:05,156 --> 00:20:08,716 Speaker 2: German engineering and style, so it was top of the 328 00:20:08,796 --> 00:20:12,316 Speaker 2: lion event. You would not see any surfer drive it around. 329 00:20:12,876 --> 00:20:16,556 Speaker 2: Only Mickey had this fan and he was known for it. Fancy, yeah, 330 00:20:16,676 --> 00:20:19,396 Speaker 2: very fancy mess ad cost a pretty penny at that time. 331 00:20:20,156 --> 00:20:22,956 Speaker 3: We would usually be sitting in the front two seats 332 00:20:23,116 --> 00:20:25,476 Speaker 3: and Mickey would be you know, cooking up the stew 333 00:20:25,596 --> 00:20:28,956 Speaker 3: or serving it up, and conversation would go on back 334 00:20:29,076 --> 00:20:32,996 Speaker 3: that way. Usually these conversations would go on for either 335 00:20:33,076 --> 00:20:35,196 Speaker 3: a half hour, depending on the surf were up to, 336 00:20:35,436 --> 00:20:37,996 Speaker 3: you know, two or three hours at night. So it 337 00:20:38,036 --> 00:20:40,756 Speaker 3: was you know, a lot of you know, good conversation. 338 00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:42,636 Speaker 3: I remember covering all kinds of. 339 00:20:42,556 --> 00:20:49,036 Speaker 1: Subjects, subjects like Mickey's apocalyptic philosophy, the surf, the price 340 00:20:49,076 --> 00:20:53,796 Speaker 1: of gold, politics, the surf, and of course the surf. 341 00:20:55,836 --> 00:20:58,996 Speaker 1: But Kevin and Craig noticed a wistfulness in Mickey for 342 00:20:59,076 --> 00:21:00,996 Speaker 1: his youth and for his home. 343 00:21:02,436 --> 00:21:05,956 Speaker 3: There was a certain kind of sadness for Mickey being 344 00:21:05,996 --> 00:21:08,476 Speaker 3: around him that I remember kind of he wished he 345 00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:12,036 Speaker 3: could still be in California for you know, aside from 346 00:21:12,076 --> 00:21:13,916 Speaker 3: all of his other troubles that he still, you know, 347 00:21:14,036 --> 00:21:18,236 Speaker 3: loved California and now he could not go back to California. Really, 348 00:21:18,276 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 3: I mean, I think there was a certain sadness to 349 00:21:20,676 --> 00:21:23,836 Speaker 3: his character when he talked about California to us. You'd 350 00:21:23,836 --> 00:21:25,676 Speaker 3: want to know what's going on, you know, what's what's 351 00:21:25,716 --> 00:21:26,436 Speaker 3: being developed. 352 00:21:26,556 --> 00:21:29,596 Speaker 2: He was in exile because of his grifter ways, but 353 00:21:29,676 --> 00:21:34,836 Speaker 2: part of him also had this sort of romanticized, idealized 354 00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:39,556 Speaker 2: version of going someplace and finding more empty great waves 355 00:21:39,596 --> 00:21:42,636 Speaker 2: like he'd had in Malibu in the fifties before it 356 00:21:42,676 --> 00:21:45,836 Speaker 2: turned into something else. Because a lot of our conversations 357 00:21:45,836 --> 00:21:48,556 Speaker 2: would kind of talk about where'd you go to to 358 00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:50,876 Speaker 2: get empty ways? Was it like, you want to know 359 00:21:51,356 --> 00:21:53,716 Speaker 2: all about Central America and what were the ways were 360 00:21:53,836 --> 00:21:57,116 Speaker 2: like and where we found empty great spots, And he 361 00:21:57,196 --> 00:22:00,756 Speaker 2: was really quisitive about the details. So I think he 362 00:22:00,996 --> 00:22:03,836 Speaker 2: kind of sensed in this sort of we had this 363 00:22:03,996 --> 00:22:07,316 Speaker 2: romantic idealized version, We're going to escape the crowds, the 364 00:22:07,316 --> 00:22:11,516 Speaker 2: madness of southern California. That's what got started on our travels, 365 00:22:11,556 --> 00:22:14,556 Speaker 2: you know, that was the driving force, the impetus to 366 00:22:14,596 --> 00:22:17,396 Speaker 2: get away and find new empty waves and hopefully find 367 00:22:17,436 --> 00:22:21,556 Speaker 2: our own personal Malibu, and I think Micky always held 368 00:22:21,556 --> 00:22:23,036 Speaker 2: on to that kind of hope and. 369 00:22:23,036 --> 00:22:28,116 Speaker 1: Ideal, but there was always the possibility lingering in the 370 00:22:28,156 --> 00:22:32,356 Speaker 1: back of their minds that Mickey was playing them. They 371 00:22:32,436 --> 00:22:36,556 Speaker 1: knew Mickey's reputation as a hustler. Kevin and Craig, by 372 00:22:36,556 --> 00:22:40,916 Speaker 1: their own admission, were pretty naive, but they weren't fools. 373 00:22:41,516 --> 00:22:44,516 Speaker 3: Even the people that got taken advantage of by Mickey 374 00:22:44,796 --> 00:22:47,836 Speaker 3: he was He is so charismatic and in a lot 375 00:22:47,836 --> 00:22:49,716 Speaker 3: of ways, they were kind of like, Wow, I've got 376 00:22:49,756 --> 00:22:52,556 Speaker 3: a Mickey's Dora story to tell, even though I lost 377 00:22:52,596 --> 00:22:56,436 Speaker 3: my camera or something else, or my girlfriend or something else, 378 00:22:56,476 --> 00:22:57,396 Speaker 3: but it was Mickey Dora. 379 00:22:57,916 --> 00:22:58,356 Speaker 1: We do that. 380 00:22:58,396 --> 00:23:01,356 Speaker 2: So, yeah, you had to always be kind of cautious 381 00:23:01,356 --> 00:23:02,676 Speaker 2: about what you were stepping into. 382 00:23:03,436 --> 00:23:06,076 Speaker 3: Well, I think he did have a reputation around so 383 00:23:06,796 --> 00:23:09,996 Speaker 3: just kind of people say that, just be careful around Mickey, 384 00:23:10,396 --> 00:23:14,196 Speaker 3: you know, because you know, you don't know what he's 385 00:23:14,316 --> 00:23:16,916 Speaker 3: kind of up to or thinking, you know. So we 386 00:23:16,996 --> 00:23:20,716 Speaker 3: knew that we really enjoyed the relationship that we had 387 00:23:20,716 --> 00:23:22,516 Speaker 3: with Mickey at the time while we're in France, but 388 00:23:23,436 --> 00:23:26,956 Speaker 3: somewhere something was going to pop up, and of. 389 00:23:26,916 --> 00:23:35,356 Speaker 1: Course, something did pop up. Eventually, Inevitably, Mickey's charm seemed 390 00:23:35,476 --> 00:23:40,876 Speaker 1: less companionable and more intentional. He wanted something from them, 391 00:23:41,236 --> 00:23:42,676 Speaker 1: but they couldn't figure out what. 392 00:23:44,116 --> 00:23:47,196 Speaker 2: Because we got to know him, we realized the guy's 393 00:23:47,276 --> 00:23:49,356 Speaker 2: always up to something, and we never quite knew what 394 00:23:49,396 --> 00:23:52,116 Speaker 2: it was. Remember, you would have to take bottles of 395 00:23:52,156 --> 00:23:55,396 Speaker 2: wine back and forth across the border. Yeah, can you 396 00:23:55,436 --> 00:23:57,236 Speaker 2: take this wine and bring it back? And why is 397 00:23:57,276 --> 00:24:00,516 Speaker 2: he having to? Why would bring this Aaron for Mickey? 398 00:24:00,556 --> 00:24:03,596 Speaker 2: But we would good naturally go along with some of 399 00:24:03,636 --> 00:24:07,236 Speaker 2: these things, and I think he was just kind of 400 00:24:07,276 --> 00:24:11,516 Speaker 2: sensing about how he could to kind of work with us, 401 00:24:11,676 --> 00:24:14,596 Speaker 2: or manipulate us, or used to deal with us, and 402 00:24:14,636 --> 00:24:16,476 Speaker 2: some for one of his schemes. 403 00:24:18,556 --> 00:24:22,076 Speaker 1: Later they'd figure out that Mickey had been testing them, 404 00:24:22,116 --> 00:24:24,436 Speaker 1: seeing how far he could push them. 405 00:24:24,756 --> 00:24:26,836 Speaker 2: He set us off on these kind of fool's errands 406 00:24:26,836 --> 00:24:30,036 Speaker 2: to get refill, not even refill a bottle wine, bring 407 00:24:30,076 --> 00:24:31,716 Speaker 2: the wine and bring it back. I think you want 408 00:24:31,796 --> 00:24:33,836 Speaker 2: to see if we're going to do anything with the 409 00:24:33,836 --> 00:24:37,076 Speaker 2: wine they've given us. Looking back on it, probably that 410 00:24:37,116 --> 00:24:38,876 Speaker 2: we were too naive to even though at the time, 411 00:24:38,876 --> 00:24:41,236 Speaker 2: what's what's this all about? But I think he was 412 00:24:41,316 --> 00:24:43,516 Speaker 2: kind of testing the waters to see how far, you know, 413 00:24:43,516 --> 00:24:44,276 Speaker 2: what would we do. 414 00:24:45,036 --> 00:24:47,436 Speaker 1: He sent you with a full bottle to bring just 415 00:24:47,516 --> 00:24:49,836 Speaker 1: cross the border and come back with that same body. 416 00:24:49,916 --> 00:24:51,916 Speaker 2: Yeah, just do just to see what's you to do it? 417 00:24:52,356 --> 00:24:54,556 Speaker 2: Why we just go ahead and do it. Don't ask questions, 418 00:24:55,196 --> 00:24:57,076 Speaker 2: just you know, go ahead and please do this for me. 419 00:24:57,396 --> 00:25:00,116 Speaker 1: I mean, cult leaders do that when they want to 420 00:25:00,156 --> 00:25:04,836 Speaker 1: start to create, they do, uh, groom, it's grooming. 421 00:25:04,916 --> 00:25:05,196 Speaker 4: Yes. 422 00:25:05,716 --> 00:25:08,076 Speaker 2: This went on for like a week or two all 423 00:25:08,156 --> 00:25:11,516 Speaker 2: and I can't even remember all the other little nonsensical 424 00:25:11,636 --> 00:25:13,876 Speaker 2: errands that he was asking us to do. And so 425 00:25:14,076 --> 00:25:15,916 Speaker 2: we said yes, and somebody said, come on, Mickey, we're 426 00:25:15,956 --> 00:25:19,196 Speaker 2: not going to stop, you know. But then that's after that. 427 00:25:19,196 --> 00:25:22,596 Speaker 2: That was the warm up to the big prize. 428 00:25:22,956 --> 00:25:25,876 Speaker 1: Mickey hadn't just been toying around with them for fun, 429 00:25:26,476 --> 00:25:28,916 Speaker 1: and he didn't really need that bottle of wine taken 430 00:25:28,956 --> 00:25:32,516 Speaker 1: over the border and back. He was laying the groundwork 431 00:25:32,636 --> 00:25:36,396 Speaker 1: for something much grander, a plot they came to think 432 00:25:36,436 --> 00:25:50,076 Speaker 1: of as the Van Scam. Kevin and Craig had come 433 00:25:50,116 --> 00:25:53,436 Speaker 1: to France with the goal of finding Mickey Dora. They'd 434 00:25:53,436 --> 00:25:58,876 Speaker 1: played it cool, worked their way in cultivated him, but 435 00:25:58,996 --> 00:26:03,156 Speaker 1: then they'd fallen under Mickey's spell, gorged themselves on his 436 00:26:03,236 --> 00:26:07,756 Speaker 1: stew stayed too long in the van, gone to parties 437 00:26:07,956 --> 00:26:12,436 Speaker 1: with Mickey dressed in his magic reversible suit. Micky even 438 00:26:12,476 --> 00:26:14,676 Speaker 1: introduced Kevin to his future wife. 439 00:26:15,996 --> 00:26:18,196 Speaker 2: I'd seen her on the Get to Read the streets 440 00:26:18,236 --> 00:26:20,876 Speaker 2: the day before. We'd kind of seen each other but 441 00:26:20,956 --> 00:26:25,396 Speaker 2: were felt too shy to talk. And then a few 442 00:26:25,476 --> 00:26:28,756 Speaker 2: days later I met La Fitania looking at the really 443 00:26:28,796 --> 00:26:31,436 Speaker 2: good ways, and up pulled the Mercedes van and lo 444 00:26:31,516 --> 00:26:34,516 Speaker 2: and behold in the passenger your seat, she was sitting there. 445 00:26:34,876 --> 00:26:39,076 Speaker 2: She's friends with Mickey. So Mickey stepped out, and you know, 446 00:26:39,156 --> 00:26:41,836 Speaker 2: there I have, and he introduced me Kevin. Here's Chelsey, 447 00:26:41,956 --> 00:26:45,876 Speaker 2: and introduced this and took it from there. We've been 448 00:26:45,916 --> 00:26:46,756 Speaker 2: married ever since. 449 00:26:49,676 --> 00:26:54,796 Speaker 1: Maybe Micky Dora had found and cultivated them, not the 450 00:26:54,876 --> 00:26:58,196 Speaker 1: other way around. He'd wooed them over to his side, 451 00:26:58,476 --> 00:27:02,396 Speaker 1: played on their weaknesses, shaped them to his ends because 452 00:27:02,436 --> 00:27:05,756 Speaker 1: he had something big in mind for these two carefree 453 00:27:05,876 --> 00:27:09,996 Speaker 1: young men. Look, they'd already given up on the sturt 454 00:27:09,996 --> 00:27:13,876 Speaker 1: for magazine assignment. They might as well work for him. 455 00:27:15,236 --> 00:27:17,316 Speaker 2: He came up with a grand plan one day where 456 00:27:17,956 --> 00:27:19,636 Speaker 2: sat us down in the van with first of the 457 00:27:19,676 --> 00:27:22,236 Speaker 2: bull a stew in the bottle of wine. He said, 458 00:27:22,236 --> 00:27:24,356 Speaker 2: look it, I can see you guys are you know, broke, 459 00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:26,956 Speaker 2: even beyond any thing I would believe in. But you 460 00:27:27,116 --> 00:27:30,076 Speaker 2: are that broke, you know. And so I've got a 461 00:27:30,396 --> 00:27:33,396 Speaker 2: plan where we can all keep traveling and surfing and 462 00:27:33,476 --> 00:27:36,356 Speaker 2: doing the stuff we like to do, and you just 463 00:27:36,436 --> 00:27:38,356 Speaker 2: have to go along with my plan and it's all 464 00:27:38,436 --> 00:27:41,716 Speaker 2: going to work out. So we said, okay, Mickey, we're 465 00:27:41,996 --> 00:27:45,236 Speaker 2: or open for anything. Fill us in. And he said, okay, 466 00:27:45,236 --> 00:27:47,796 Speaker 2: I've got this Mercedes van here you were all sitting in, 467 00:27:48,596 --> 00:27:51,516 Speaker 2: and which by the way, he had bought in England 468 00:27:51,596 --> 00:27:53,476 Speaker 2: and written a bad check for of course, so Inner 469 00:27:53,556 --> 00:27:57,276 Speaker 2: Pol was out looking for him in the France anyway, 470 00:27:57,316 --> 00:27:59,156 Speaker 2: So the van was bought on a bad check and 471 00:27:59,236 --> 00:28:03,156 Speaker 2: Harry was hanging out hiding out in France, and he said, 472 00:28:03,356 --> 00:28:06,236 Speaker 2: what I'll do is we'll go to Spain, three of us, 473 00:28:06,276 --> 00:28:10,196 Speaker 2: and then I'm going to sell you guys the van there. 474 00:28:11,716 --> 00:28:12,236 Speaker 4: In Spain. 475 00:28:12,396 --> 00:28:14,836 Speaker 1: Micky told them they'd be able to buy a Swiss 476 00:28:14,956 --> 00:28:17,996 Speaker 1: insurance policy on the van in their names. 477 00:28:19,116 --> 00:28:22,596 Speaker 2: And you guys are of course established photojournalist team. So 478 00:28:22,916 --> 00:28:26,116 Speaker 2: of the big deal and you're traveling around Europe doing 479 00:28:26,156 --> 00:28:28,996 Speaker 2: some stories. So then you drive the van to Italy 480 00:28:30,316 --> 00:28:32,836 Speaker 2: and to a place someone has struck you to go to. Well, 481 00:28:32,836 --> 00:28:35,036 Speaker 2: it turned out at this time there was a lot 482 00:28:35,116 --> 00:28:39,556 Speaker 2: of activity going on in Italy with the Red Brigade. 483 00:28:40,876 --> 00:28:44,836 Speaker 1: The Red Brigade was a violent far left gorilla group, a. 484 00:28:44,876 --> 00:28:47,996 Speaker 2: Lot of social unrest and they were blowing up cars 485 00:28:48,076 --> 00:28:51,956 Speaker 2: and burning down buildings. So the Red Brigade, they were 486 00:28:52,116 --> 00:28:54,196 Speaker 2: very active in Italy. Micky was going to send us 487 00:28:54,236 --> 00:28:56,236 Speaker 2: to a town where they were doing a lot of mischief, 488 00:28:56,956 --> 00:29:00,876 Speaker 2: and we were checking the hotel there, and then Mickey 489 00:29:00,876 --> 00:29:04,436 Speaker 2: would sort of in the stealth of the night, jump 490 00:29:04,476 --> 00:29:08,196 Speaker 2: into the van and drive it straight to Greece where 491 00:29:08,196 --> 00:29:10,556 Speaker 2: he had somebody in who was going to buy this van, 492 00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:14,636 Speaker 2: no questions asked, And we wake up the next day 493 00:29:14,676 --> 00:29:17,996 Speaker 2: and we report our van stolen to the Italian authorities. 494 00:29:19,636 --> 00:29:22,196 Speaker 1: Mickey thought the Italian police would be ready to blame 495 00:29:22,276 --> 00:29:26,156 Speaker 1: the Red Brigade and sympathize with clueless Americans who had 496 00:29:26,276 --> 00:29:28,076 Speaker 1: just rolled in in a Mercedes van. 497 00:29:29,236 --> 00:29:33,356 Speaker 2: They'll go on that premise, he said, And then what 498 00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:37,196 Speaker 2: happened is the insurance company in Switzerland. You know, you 499 00:29:37,236 --> 00:29:41,036 Speaker 2: can cash it on the policy there and we all 500 00:29:41,116 --> 00:29:44,516 Speaker 2: meet back here in France afterwards and we divvy up 501 00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:46,476 Speaker 2: the money half to me and after you two guys. 502 00:29:48,316 --> 00:29:53,476 Speaker 2: We're involving now five countries, France, Spain, Italy, Greece. So 503 00:29:54,916 --> 00:29:59,556 Speaker 2: the list goes on. But I don't I'm not doing 504 00:29:59,756 --> 00:30:02,516 Speaker 2: justice to the detail which with Mickey had planned this. 505 00:30:03,156 --> 00:30:05,836 Speaker 2: He really had it down to like all these things 506 00:30:05,916 --> 00:30:08,516 Speaker 2: on a time schedule was going to happen just as 507 00:30:08,556 --> 00:30:10,636 Speaker 2: he had planned, and we were going to just go 508 00:30:10,716 --> 00:30:13,236 Speaker 2: along with his instructions and everything was going to be cool, 509 00:30:13,836 --> 00:30:15,716 Speaker 2: and we were going to end up cashing in on 510 00:30:15,796 --> 00:30:18,796 Speaker 2: this great policy, come back to France, celebrate over a 511 00:30:18,876 --> 00:30:21,676 Speaker 2: bottle of wine, and divvy up the money. And I mean, 512 00:30:21,676 --> 00:30:24,516 Speaker 2: he made it sound like so enticing, like this can't 513 00:30:24,556 --> 00:30:27,236 Speaker 2: go wrong, this is great. We're gonna have we're gonna 514 00:30:27,236 --> 00:30:29,276 Speaker 2: have money to travel for the next year. We go 515 00:30:29,396 --> 00:30:31,516 Speaker 2: or we want just we just have to go with 516 00:30:31,636 --> 00:30:34,956 Speaker 2: Mickey's grand plan. Let's do it. And so we said, okay, 517 00:30:35,116 --> 00:30:36,476 Speaker 2: just give us a little bit of time to think 518 00:30:36,516 --> 00:30:38,516 Speaker 2: about it, because it did kind of cross a little 519 00:30:40,476 --> 00:30:43,356 Speaker 2: There were some moral issues that it was crossing some 520 00:30:43,476 --> 00:30:47,476 Speaker 2: boundaries we kind of had ourselves. And then of course 521 00:30:47,676 --> 00:30:50,276 Speaker 2: getting involved with something with Mickey, you always got to 522 00:30:50,276 --> 00:30:53,836 Speaker 2: a little wonder is it going to backfire? And then 523 00:30:53,996 --> 00:30:56,476 Speaker 2: so we thought about it overnight and went back and forth, 524 00:30:57,156 --> 00:30:59,356 Speaker 2: and then the next day said, Mickey, it sounds really good, 525 00:30:59,436 --> 00:31:02,596 Speaker 2: but what happens at the end, you know, and let's 526 00:31:02,596 --> 00:31:05,636 Speaker 2: say it all goes through and make you said, no problem, 527 00:31:05,676 --> 00:31:07,876 Speaker 2: we just meet here and you know, half the money 528 00:31:07,956 --> 00:31:09,756 Speaker 2: goes to you and have to meet He said, of course, 529 00:31:10,036 --> 00:31:13,156 Speaker 2: I will have to make deductions for whatever costs me 530 00:31:13,276 --> 00:31:15,796 Speaker 2: to you know, support you guys for in the month 531 00:31:15,836 --> 00:31:17,796 Speaker 2: to two it takes to this. You know, it's it's 532 00:31:17,836 --> 00:31:19,316 Speaker 2: not going to be a free ride for you guys, 533 00:31:19,396 --> 00:31:21,876 Speaker 2: and so I will make whatever deductions I think I 534 00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:25,396 Speaker 2: have to make. I looked at each other and said, okay, 535 00:31:25,996 --> 00:31:27,476 Speaker 2: that tells us we're going to end up with a 536 00:31:27,556 --> 00:31:30,276 Speaker 2: bus ticket to London. You know, that's that's pretty much it. 537 00:31:30,916 --> 00:31:32,996 Speaker 2: Not even a plane fair home, just a bus ticket. 538 00:31:33,196 --> 00:31:36,036 Speaker 2: A in pole looking for looking for us and Vicky 539 00:31:36,116 --> 00:31:39,356 Speaker 2: high tailing it off somewhere else in the world New Zealand, 540 00:31:39,436 --> 00:31:42,596 Speaker 2: whoever where skiing in Switzerland, and we're going to be 541 00:31:42,676 --> 00:31:45,116 Speaker 2: the straw guys and we're going to be the fall 542 00:31:45,196 --> 00:31:48,276 Speaker 2: guys for this. So we politely said, you know, Mickey 543 00:31:48,396 --> 00:31:50,836 Speaker 2: is really not in our wheelhouse. We're not We're not 544 00:31:50,956 --> 00:31:54,476 Speaker 2: going to go with this. Would rather be poor and broken, 545 00:31:54,596 --> 00:31:57,876 Speaker 2: honest than get involved in something like this. And he 546 00:31:58,036 --> 00:31:59,876 Speaker 2: just said, okay, I just wanted to put the offer 547 00:31:59,956 --> 00:32:01,676 Speaker 2: out there, and it's there if you guys want to 548 00:32:01,716 --> 00:32:03,956 Speaker 2: do it. And I said, well, Mickey, if it's so good, 549 00:32:03,996 --> 00:32:06,156 Speaker 2: why don't you know, why don't you do it yourself? 550 00:32:06,676 --> 00:32:08,476 Speaker 2: And he said, well, I actually I've already done it. 551 00:32:10,356 --> 00:32:12,196 Speaker 2: I can't go back to the well, I can't do 552 00:32:12,316 --> 00:32:16,356 Speaker 2: it again. So okay, now we see. Then we saw 553 00:32:16,396 --> 00:32:17,076 Speaker 2: the big picture. 554 00:32:18,756 --> 00:32:21,796 Speaker 1: Mickey's m O was to embroil other people in his 555 00:32:21,916 --> 00:32:28,076 Speaker 1: elaborate plots, and if they got burned, so what Mickey 556 00:32:28,116 --> 00:32:32,516 Speaker 1: would pussy foot away with his cheshire cat smile. But 557 00:32:32,676 --> 00:32:37,076 Speaker 1: maybe he was losing his touch. He was definitely changing. 558 00:32:38,476 --> 00:32:42,196 Speaker 2: He had a certain paranoia streak in a suspicion about 559 00:32:42,996 --> 00:32:45,396 Speaker 2: society in general and who was out to get him. 560 00:32:45,436 --> 00:32:51,836 Speaker 2: And I sensed this kind of paranoia to his personality 561 00:32:51,956 --> 00:32:53,796 Speaker 2: that was kind of strange. 562 00:32:55,116 --> 00:32:59,276 Speaker 1: Or maybe it was just that his luck was running out. 563 00:33:00,316 --> 00:33:03,156 Speaker 2: You know, you're never really fully free from your past deeds, 564 00:33:03,756 --> 00:33:05,596 Speaker 2: and I think Mickey is a good example of that. 565 00:33:06,836 --> 00:33:09,756 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig got out of Getory a little wiser 566 00:33:09,836 --> 00:33:13,076 Speaker 1: to the world, but with their morals intact and a 567 00:33:13,196 --> 00:33:18,236 Speaker 1: classic Mickey Dora story. They'd escaped and just in time. 568 00:33:19,436 --> 00:33:31,836 Speaker 1: Being a friend of Mickey's was getting dangerous. Next time 569 00:33:31,876 --> 00:33:35,356 Speaker 1: I Lost Hills, the FBIS got questions. 570 00:33:37,276 --> 00:33:40,156 Speaker 4: I got a visit from the FBI, so they came 571 00:33:40,276 --> 00:33:42,356 Speaker 4: and they asked me all about Mickey and what I knew, 572 00:33:42,956 --> 00:33:45,956 Speaker 4: and I went out of my way to give them 573 00:33:45,996 --> 00:33:49,636 Speaker 4: as little information as I possibly could without lying to them, 574 00:33:49,636 --> 00:33:51,556 Speaker 4: because I knew lying with the FBI with crime, so 575 00:33:51,916 --> 00:33:53,556 Speaker 4: I wasn't going to tell them. I wasn't going to 576 00:33:53,556 --> 00:33:57,196 Speaker 4: tell him anything untrue, but I was going to I 577 00:33:57,276 --> 00:34:00,196 Speaker 4: don't recall as many times as I could, or I 578 00:34:00,276 --> 00:34:03,716 Speaker 4: don't know as many times as I could without being obvious. 579 00:34:05,796 --> 00:34:12,316 Speaker 1: That's next in episode ten, Aging Boy of Lost Hills 580 00:34:12,396 --> 00:34:15,596 Speaker 1: is written and reported by Me Dana Goodyear. It's created 581 00:34:15,676 --> 00:34:18,636 Speaker 1: by me and Ben Adair and produced by Western Sound 582 00:34:18,756 --> 00:34:22,516 Speaker 1: and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to pushkin Plus, and you can 583 00:34:22,596 --> 00:34:26,756 Speaker 1: binge the entire season right now ad free. Find Pushkin 584 00:34:26,796 --> 00:34:29,596 Speaker 1: Plus on the Lost Hill Show page in Apple Podcasts, 585 00:34:29,756 --> 00:34:32,476 Speaker 1: or at pushkin dot fmslash plus