1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:21,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Lost Hills listeners, it's Dana. I wanted to 2 00:00:22,036 --> 00:00:24,156 Speaker 1: let you know that you can hear the entire new 3 00:00:24,196 --> 00:00:27,936 Speaker 1: season of Lost Hills ad-free along with other great binge 4 00:00:27,986 --> 00:00:32,206 Speaker 1: listens by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin Plus 5 00:00:32,406 --> 00:00:35,406 Speaker 1: on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts or 6 00:00:35,446 --> 00:00:47,666 Speaker 1: at pushkin.fm slash plus. Mickey Dora, the Dark Prince, had 7 00:00:47,726 --> 00:00:51,846 Speaker 1: vanished from Malibu in 1974, but he didn't disappear from 8 00:00:51,886 --> 00:00:56,366 Speaker 1: the surf world's collective consciousness. Everybody wanted to know where 9 00:00:56,386 --> 00:01:00,746 Speaker 1: the so-called King of Surfers was. Some people claim to 10 00:01:00,786 --> 00:01:04,836 Speaker 1: have spotted him surfing in California. Others said he'd given 11 00:01:04,896 --> 00:01:07,516 Speaker 1: up the surf life and was a lawyer in Century City. 12 00:01:08,616 --> 00:01:11,296 Speaker 1: The article Curse of the Chumash said, quote, Someone kept 13 00:01:11,316 --> 00:01:14,076 Speaker 1: tagging the wall at Surfrider with the words, Was Mickey 14 00:01:14,096 --> 00:01:16,556 Speaker 1: Dora dead? Not possible. He was sending letters postmarked from 15 00:01:16,616 --> 00:01:39,876 Speaker 1: all over the world. from anywhere but where he actually was. 16 00:01:41,616 --> 00:01:44,736 Speaker 1: A few years into Mickey's vanishing act, two young surfers 17 00:01:44,816 --> 00:01:45,726 Speaker 1: set out to find him. 18 00:01:45,746 --> 00:01:48,526 Speaker 2: Oh, hi there. 19 00:01:49,246 --> 00:01:53,366 Speaker 3: It's Craig, I'm Kevin, and this is Mickey. How's that? 20 00:01:53,906 --> 00:01:55,206 Speaker 3: This is my son's T-shirt. 21 00:01:55,226 --> 00:01:56,216 Speaker 2: Can I take a picture of it? 22 00:01:56,286 --> 00:01:57,926 Speaker 3: I had to wear it, even though it's my son's. 23 00:01:57,986 --> 00:02:00,866 Speaker 4: You've got to take a picture. 24 00:02:01,226 --> 00:02:05,156 Speaker 1: Kevin Naughton and Craig Peterson are pushing 70 now, still surfing, 25 00:02:05,496 --> 00:02:08,976 Speaker 1: still close friends. I met them at Kevin's house in 26 00:02:08,996 --> 00:02:13,076 Speaker 1: Laguna Beach, California. Kevin greeted me wearing a t-shirt printed 27 00:02:13,096 --> 00:02:15,596 Speaker 1: with a photo of Mickey flipping off the camera at 28 00:02:15,676 --> 00:02:18,606 Speaker 1: Malibu in 1963. 29 00:02:18,606 --> 00:02:24,206 Speaker 4: I'm Kevin Naughton, and I used to be a surf journalist, 30 00:02:24,286 --> 00:02:28,246 Speaker 4: mostly for Surfer magazine, traveling around the world and writing 31 00:02:28,306 --> 00:02:33,136 Speaker 4: stories of great adventure tales about our travels. 32 00:02:34,956 --> 00:02:35,916 Speaker 2: And I'm Craig Peterson. 33 00:02:36,846 --> 00:02:40,826 Speaker 5: I was the staff photographer for Surfer Magazine for over 34 00:02:40,846 --> 00:02:43,666 Speaker 5: a decade and during our surf travels back in the 35 00:02:43,726 --> 00:02:44,696 Speaker 5: 70s and 80s. 36 00:02:46,386 --> 00:02:48,186 Speaker 1: We made our way into the living room, and I 37 00:02:48,246 --> 00:02:51,326 Speaker 1: noticed a photograph leaning against the wall. It was a 38 00:02:51,366 --> 00:02:54,126 Speaker 1: picture of Kevin, his back to the camera, sitting on 39 00:02:54,166 --> 00:02:57,166 Speaker 1: a bench, looking out at the Bay of Biscay in 40 00:02:57,206 --> 00:03:01,276 Speaker 1: the south of France. The waves are peeling in perfect, clean, 41 00:03:01,576 --> 00:03:05,636 Speaker 1: mostly right-breaking lines, and there's not a single surfer out. 42 00:03:07,006 --> 00:03:09,306 Speaker 4: See that photo there? That's where we first met Mickey. 43 00:03:10,106 --> 00:03:13,886 Speaker 4: That's when we met Mickey at Gittery. And this is 44 00:03:13,926 --> 00:03:18,106 Speaker 4: something that you'll never see again in your lives or 45 00:03:18,486 --> 00:03:23,106 Speaker 4: anybody's lives from now until the end of time. There's empty, perfect. 46 00:03:23,306 --> 00:03:24,486 Speaker 4: Gittery is perfect. 47 00:03:24,246 --> 00:03:24,806 Speaker 3: As it gets. 48 00:03:26,426 --> 00:03:29,646 Speaker 1: Gittery is a small fishing village on the Basque coast 49 00:03:29,886 --> 00:03:32,126 Speaker 1: between Biarritz and Saint-Jean-de-Luz. 50 00:03:33,886 --> 00:03:37,026 Speaker 4: So oftentimes I'd look at it just to think that 51 00:03:38,006 --> 00:03:40,296 Speaker 4: it's almost like going through a portal into another world 52 00:03:40,336 --> 00:03:42,316 Speaker 4: to look at the photo, a world that will never 53 00:03:42,376 --> 00:03:44,656 Speaker 4: come back. But we were a part of it. And 54 00:03:44,676 --> 00:03:47,536 Speaker 4: then this is probably within the same week that we 55 00:03:47,696 --> 00:03:52,796 Speaker 4: met Mickey in 1977. And it's a phenomena that only 56 00:03:52,856 --> 00:03:55,516 Speaker 4: surfers really could appreciate to see a wave this good 57 00:03:56,176 --> 00:03:59,046 Speaker 4: at a spot this famous and no one out. And 58 00:03:59,086 --> 00:04:00,126 Speaker 4: this was Mickey's spot. 59 00:04:01,836 --> 00:04:06,686 Speaker 1: Here in France, Mickey had found a new Malibu. Gittery 60 00:04:06,706 --> 00:04:10,226 Speaker 1: in the 70s was a surfer's paradise. It was hidden, 61 00:04:10,346 --> 00:04:13,566 Speaker 1: tucked away, off the radar, and it had a perfect 62 00:04:13,646 --> 00:04:16,396 Speaker 1: right-breaking wave. Mickey's kind of wave. 63 00:04:18,116 --> 00:04:19,956 Speaker 4: So we surfed it with him quite a few times, 64 00:04:20,056 --> 00:04:22,216 Speaker 4: and quite a few times it would just be the 65 00:04:22,236 --> 00:04:24,236 Speaker 4: three of us. That's just us out. 66 00:04:26,166 --> 00:04:32,046 Speaker 1: In France, Mickey was unexpectedly mellow. no messerschmitting other surfers 67 00:04:32,226 --> 00:04:35,526 Speaker 1: or posturing with his Nazi surfboard, and he'd left his 68 00:04:35,806 --> 00:04:38,626 Speaker 1: SS trench coat behind in the storage unit in New Zealand. 69 00:04:39,326 --> 00:04:41,326 Speaker 1: There was no one around to intimidate anyway. 70 00:04:42,806 --> 00:04:44,566 Speaker 4: It was nice to get to know him in someplace 71 00:04:44,626 --> 00:04:47,736 Speaker 4: other than Malibu where he was so entrenched, he was 72 00:04:47,776 --> 00:04:53,816 Speaker 4: so ingrained there that it was like his little personal 73 00:04:53,956 --> 00:04:57,656 Speaker 4: fortress or fiefdom. And when we're in France, we're all 74 00:04:57,696 --> 00:05:00,846 Speaker 4: there sort of on this neutral, we're in Swiss neutral country. 75 00:05:01,166 --> 00:05:04,046 Speaker 1: He would have poured the boiling oil on you in Malibu, maybe. 76 00:05:04,066 --> 00:05:04,526 Speaker 3: Yeah, right. 77 00:05:04,606 --> 00:05:07,146 Speaker 4: Whereas in France, it was more like we were in 78 00:05:07,186 --> 00:05:11,326 Speaker 4: neutral ground. Everyone was more on equal footing. And that's 79 00:05:11,366 --> 00:05:12,716 Speaker 4: how you felt when you were around him there. 80 00:05:14,356 --> 00:05:18,216 Speaker 1: But Kevin and Craig were not just 20-something surf nomads 81 00:05:18,356 --> 00:05:22,796 Speaker 1: stoked to find a kindred spirit. They were traveling on assignment. 82 00:05:23,516 --> 00:05:27,316 Speaker 1: And their assignment was to find Mickey. and report back 83 00:05:27,376 --> 00:05:33,616 Speaker 1: to their boss at Surfer Magazine. Turns out, finding Mickey 84 00:05:33,816 --> 00:05:37,576 Speaker 1: would be the easy part. The hard part would be 85 00:05:37,636 --> 00:05:45,766 Speaker 1: getting away. I'm Dana Goodyear, and this is Lost Hills. 86 00:05:45,786 --> 00:06:20,546 Speaker 1: Lost Hills Kevin and Craig got their start young. They 87 00:06:20,586 --> 00:06:24,246 Speaker 1: published their first piece in Surfer in 1973, when they 88 00:06:24,266 --> 00:06:28,316 Speaker 1: were still teenagers. And the two of you were a 89 00:06:29,496 --> 00:06:30,496 Speaker 1: team act, right? 90 00:06:30,536 --> 00:06:33,476 Speaker 4: Right, we were a photojournalist team. And the funny thing is, 91 00:06:33,516 --> 00:06:36,056 Speaker 4: Craig needed someone to take photos of, somebody who could surf. 92 00:06:36,776 --> 00:06:39,846 Speaker 4: He was a good photographer, I was a good surfer, and... 93 00:06:40,446 --> 00:06:42,886 Speaker 4: We both like adventure and searching for good waves. 94 00:06:43,446 --> 00:06:45,446 Speaker 5: A bonus, too, was that Kevin was a good writer. 95 00:06:46,156 --> 00:06:48,556 Speaker 5: So we could, you know, write the stories and send 96 00:06:48,576 --> 00:06:49,876 Speaker 5: them back to Surfer Magazine. 97 00:06:51,876 --> 00:06:55,336 Speaker 1: The pictures of them from this time are classic. Craig 98 00:06:55,396 --> 00:06:58,896 Speaker 1: with his shoulder-length blonde hair and Jesus beard, wearing his 99 00:06:58,996 --> 00:07:01,986 Speaker 1: frame backpack, a surfboard under one arm, and a silver 100 00:07:02,026 --> 00:07:05,486 Speaker 1: briefcase full of photo equipment under the other. Kevin with 101 00:07:05,526 --> 00:07:07,726 Speaker 1: a duffel bag and a board and a curly mane. 102 00:07:09,036 --> 00:07:11,856 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig filed dispatches from all over the world 103 00:07:12,216 --> 00:07:15,716 Speaker 1: under the heading, The Further Misadventures of Kevin Naughton and 104 00:07:15,756 --> 00:07:19,376 Speaker 1: Craig Peterson. Early on, they wrote about a surf trip 105 00:07:19,396 --> 00:07:23,176 Speaker 1: to El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica. At the time, 106 00:07:23,496 --> 00:07:25,786 Speaker 1: it was terra incognita for surfers. 107 00:07:26,926 --> 00:07:29,546 Speaker 4: Surfers said, hey, you know, readers love this stuff. This 108 00:07:29,626 --> 00:07:34,146 Speaker 4: is really popular because at that point in time, you 109 00:07:34,166 --> 00:07:36,906 Speaker 4: have to think that most of the articles you saw 110 00:07:36,946 --> 00:07:42,856 Speaker 4: in the magazines were about Hawaii, California, maybe Australia once 111 00:07:42,916 --> 00:07:45,216 Speaker 4: in a while. But that was kind of it. So 112 00:07:45,416 --> 00:07:48,276 Speaker 4: we kind of opened up this kind of window of, hey, 113 00:07:48,296 --> 00:07:51,096 Speaker 4: there's a lot of surf adventure out there to be done. 114 00:07:51,156 --> 00:07:55,956 Speaker 4: And Surfer, to their credit, they recognized that and said, hey, 115 00:07:55,976 --> 00:07:57,516 Speaker 4: where do you guys want to go next? 116 00:07:58,846 --> 00:07:59,986 Speaker 3: Because this is working. 117 00:08:01,006 --> 00:08:05,026 Speaker 1: Their timing was good. Surfing had fully taken off in California, 118 00:08:05,446 --> 00:08:08,226 Speaker 1: and the breaks were crowded. Here's Craig. 119 00:08:09,536 --> 00:08:13,396 Speaker 5: Malibu was crowded, Huntington, all these places. So when I 120 00:08:13,396 --> 00:08:15,336 Speaker 5: approached Surfer Magazine and said, hey, we want to go 121 00:08:15,376 --> 00:08:17,256 Speaker 5: down and try to find some waves down in Central 122 00:08:17,296 --> 00:08:19,576 Speaker 5: America and see what we can find, they kind of 123 00:08:19,616 --> 00:08:21,076 Speaker 5: didn't know what to make of it. They knew that 124 00:08:21,116 --> 00:08:23,676 Speaker 5: there was probably good waves there, but it was like, well, 125 00:08:23,696 --> 00:08:25,636 Speaker 5: we don't know how many articles we'll. 126 00:08:25,496 --> 00:08:27,296 Speaker 2: Do or get out of it. So let's just see 127 00:08:27,336 --> 00:08:27,796 Speaker 2: what happens. 128 00:08:29,196 --> 00:08:32,276 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig traveled to West Africa, the Canary Islands, 129 00:08:32,316 --> 00:08:36,116 Speaker 1: the Caribbean, and back through Central America, publishing stories as 130 00:08:36,176 --> 00:08:42,096 Speaker 1: they went. When they returned home, Surfer magazine asked them 131 00:08:42,196 --> 00:08:45,316 Speaker 1: where they were headed next. Kevin and Craig were hoping 132 00:08:45,356 --> 00:08:49,136 Speaker 1: to explore the unknown surf spots of Europe. They pitched 133 00:08:49,216 --> 00:08:51,696 Speaker 1: a trip to Portugal, Ireland, and France. 134 00:08:52,856 --> 00:08:54,966 Speaker 4: So Surfer kind of scratched their heads and said, okay. 135 00:08:55,706 --> 00:08:58,426 Speaker 4: And then right before we left, it was one priceless 136 00:08:58,486 --> 00:09:01,166 Speaker 4: moment when the editor called or publisher called us into 137 00:09:01,206 --> 00:09:03,526 Speaker 4: his office. And he said, okay, you guys are going 138 00:09:03,566 --> 00:09:05,606 Speaker 4: to France and we know Mickey Dore is hanging out 139 00:09:05,666 --> 00:09:08,246 Speaker 4: in France. He's been dropped off the radar now for 140 00:09:08,266 --> 00:09:11,336 Speaker 4: a few years. and no one's heard anything of him 141 00:09:11,856 --> 00:09:14,816 Speaker 4: or from him, but we know he's there. And you 142 00:09:14,836 --> 00:09:18,756 Speaker 4: guys are going there, and no matter what, what did 143 00:09:18,796 --> 00:09:19,366 Speaker 4: he say to you? 144 00:09:19,386 --> 00:09:22,886 Speaker 2: He said, if Mickey even farts, I want a picture 145 00:09:22,966 --> 00:09:23,126 Speaker 2: of it. 146 00:09:23,746 --> 00:09:28,406 Speaker 4: That's how much they wanted coverage of Mickey, right? Of course, 147 00:09:28,856 --> 00:09:31,276 Speaker 4: he was one of our surf idols from the 60s, 148 00:09:31,796 --> 00:09:33,616 Speaker 4: so we were all stoked to chance to meet him. 149 00:09:34,276 --> 00:09:35,876 Speaker 4: So we said, okay, we're on it. 150 00:09:38,416 --> 00:09:41,696 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig had grown up on Dora stories. He 151 00:09:41,716 --> 00:09:44,656 Speaker 1: was legendary, not just for his surfing, but for his 152 00:09:44,696 --> 00:09:49,436 Speaker 1: celebrity surfer persona. The elegant, vicious prankster who'd show up 153 00:09:49,476 --> 00:09:51,706 Speaker 1: to the beach in tennis whites, bilk a kid out 154 00:09:51,726 --> 00:09:54,146 Speaker 1: of 20 bucks, and drive off in a Lotus. 155 00:09:55,186 --> 00:09:58,446 Speaker 4: He had this je ne sais quoi, this air about him. 156 00:09:58,466 --> 00:10:02,606 Speaker 4: He had this more than just the surfer persona. He 157 00:10:02,686 --> 00:10:07,536 Speaker 4: had another persona that he took you know, all the 158 00:10:07,576 --> 00:10:10,356 Speaker 4: way on land. It's not just in the water. The cat, 159 00:10:10,376 --> 00:10:11,716 Speaker 4: you know, the mysterious cat. 160 00:10:13,196 --> 00:10:17,036 Speaker 1: It made sense that Mickey had fetched up in France. Quietly, 161 00:10:17,396 --> 00:10:20,586 Speaker 1: on the Surf World's whisper net, that stretch of Basque 162 00:10:20,646 --> 00:10:25,946 Speaker 1: coastline that included Saint-Jean-de-Luz, Gittery, and Biarritz was becoming known 163 00:10:26,106 --> 00:10:30,026 Speaker 1: as the next great spot. It was California as it 164 00:10:30,166 --> 00:10:35,286 Speaker 1: used to be. Before Gidget, before the crowds. It's probably 165 00:10:35,386 --> 00:10:37,006 Speaker 1: why Mickey was so relaxed. 166 00:10:37,886 --> 00:10:40,696 Speaker 4: Everyone at that point, surfers in California had been to 167 00:10:40,736 --> 00:10:44,316 Speaker 4: France or raving about how much it was like California 168 00:10:44,336 --> 00:10:45,376 Speaker 4: in terms of climate. 169 00:10:46,536 --> 00:10:48,056 Speaker 3: Food, waves. 170 00:10:48,676 --> 00:10:53,536 Speaker 4: So the word was out from like 1969 on that 171 00:10:53,596 --> 00:10:56,036 Speaker 4: France was a cool place to be. And Mickey just 172 00:10:56,776 --> 00:10:58,456 Speaker 4: I was one of the first guys there hanging out. 173 00:11:00,056 --> 00:11:04,596 Speaker 1: It was the ultimate assignment. Surf largely undiscovered waves in 174 00:11:04,636 --> 00:11:08,646 Speaker 1: an idyllic place, the next Malibu, and in the process, 175 00:11:08,886 --> 00:11:12,646 Speaker 1: meet the most mysterious figure in surfing, who you've worshipped 176 00:11:12,886 --> 00:11:17,886 Speaker 1: since childhood. Kevin and Craig were in. They made it 177 00:11:17,926 --> 00:11:21,766 Speaker 1: to the south of France in the fall of 1977. 178 00:11:28,016 --> 00:11:29,776 Speaker 4: It was late in the season, I think around November. 179 00:11:30,536 --> 00:11:33,496 Speaker 4: So all the surfers that had been there kind of 180 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:36,136 Speaker 4: cleared out. There was this surfer migration at the time 181 00:11:36,176 --> 00:11:39,436 Speaker 4: where everybody kind of moved on from France down to 182 00:11:39,476 --> 00:11:42,136 Speaker 4: Spain and Portugal and went to Morocco for the winter 183 00:11:42,156 --> 00:11:45,166 Speaker 4: when it was nice and warm. So everybody was gone 184 00:11:45,206 --> 00:11:46,906 Speaker 4: and we pulled in in a kind of a stormy, 185 00:11:46,946 --> 00:11:51,366 Speaker 4: cloudy day to Guitari. And lo and behold, there in 186 00:11:51,406 --> 00:11:55,196 Speaker 4: the parking lot was Mickey's, you know, big green Mercedes van. And, 187 00:11:57,476 --> 00:11:59,256 Speaker 4: you know, out steps Mickey and looks at us and 188 00:11:59,276 --> 00:12:01,296 Speaker 4: it's just Mickey and us in the parking. 189 00:12:00,996 --> 00:12:01,936 Speaker 3: Lot, you know, no one else. 190 00:12:03,736 --> 00:12:06,426 Speaker 1: Mickey spotted the surfboards tied to the top of their car. 191 00:12:07,066 --> 00:12:10,136 Speaker 1: He came over and they could feel him sizing them up. 192 00:12:11,086 --> 00:12:13,386 Speaker 1: He could tell right away that Kevin and Craig were 193 00:12:13,406 --> 00:12:16,706 Speaker 1: from California and he invited them to surf with him. 194 00:12:16,726 --> 00:12:20,466 Speaker 5: He's a, you know, a little bit of a initially 195 00:12:20,746 --> 00:12:25,846 Speaker 5: shy guy, cautious, but, uh, you know, approachable in that way. And, uh, 196 00:12:26,776 --> 00:12:29,256 Speaker 5: I kind of think he already knew who we were 197 00:12:29,356 --> 00:12:33,226 Speaker 5: from our previous articles on surf travel and misadventures. 198 00:12:33,346 --> 00:12:34,226 Speaker 3: Absolutely, he did. 199 00:12:34,246 --> 00:12:37,166 Speaker 4: Because after a few days of hanging around in his 200 00:12:37,386 --> 00:12:40,986 Speaker 4: Mercedes van, he was feeding us from this bottomless pot 201 00:12:41,026 --> 00:12:43,566 Speaker 4: of stew that he would just keep throwing whatever he 202 00:12:43,626 --> 00:12:46,086 Speaker 4: had into the stew. It never emptied. It never ended. 203 00:12:46,646 --> 00:12:49,656 Speaker 4: It was great for us because he always offered us 204 00:12:49,696 --> 00:12:51,716 Speaker 4: something in the van. We'd come in for a surf 205 00:12:51,736 --> 00:12:54,416 Speaker 4: and we're freezing and get some of his stew and talk. 206 00:12:57,066 --> 00:12:59,806 Speaker 1: As far as the surfer assignment was concerned, they were 207 00:12:59,886 --> 00:13:02,876 Speaker 1: killing it. They'd surfed with Mickey. They'd hung out in 208 00:13:02,906 --> 00:13:05,136 Speaker 1: his van. They were gaining trust. 209 00:13:06,576 --> 00:13:09,056 Speaker 4: And then finally, after about a week of this, you know, 210 00:13:09,116 --> 00:13:11,556 Speaker 4: the other shoe dropped and Mickey said, OK, look, I 211 00:13:11,616 --> 00:13:15,116 Speaker 4: know who you guys are, you know, and you guys 212 00:13:15,156 --> 00:13:17,216 Speaker 4: have done a bunch of stuff for Surfer. I've read 213 00:13:17,256 --> 00:13:21,196 Speaker 4: your articles. I've seen your stories. And here's the deal. 214 00:13:21,816 --> 00:13:24,476 Speaker 4: You know, I know you're here. You've probably been told 215 00:13:24,516 --> 00:13:27,286 Speaker 4: to take photos of me. and write something about me 216 00:13:27,436 --> 00:13:31,116 Speaker 4: because I just can tell. He said, but here's the 217 00:13:31,156 --> 00:13:33,516 Speaker 4: deal I'll do. You guys are as broke as can be, 218 00:13:33,556 --> 00:13:36,196 Speaker 4: broker than any surfers I've ever run across, which was 219 00:13:36,556 --> 00:13:40,086 Speaker 4: typical for surf journalists at the time. And he said, 220 00:13:40,166 --> 00:13:44,066 Speaker 4: I'll make you a bargain. I'll feed you on this 221 00:13:44,146 --> 00:13:46,346 Speaker 4: pot of great stew. I have going to my Mercedes 222 00:13:47,206 --> 00:13:48,926 Speaker 4: all the time for as much as you want. Door's 223 00:13:48,986 --> 00:13:51,596 Speaker 4: always open. You're always welcome. And you're always ready to 224 00:13:51,626 --> 00:13:55,376 Speaker 4: have a bowl of ice stew on the condition that 225 00:13:55,666 --> 00:13:57,646 Speaker 4: You don't take any photos of me and you don't 226 00:13:57,666 --> 00:14:00,246 Speaker 4: write anything about me. And if you're going to try 227 00:14:00,266 --> 00:14:01,756 Speaker 4: to take photos and you're going to try to write 228 00:14:01,776 --> 00:14:04,196 Speaker 4: about me, get out of the van right now and 229 00:14:04,216 --> 00:14:06,656 Speaker 4: get out of my life. What's it going to be? 230 00:14:09,056 --> 00:14:12,376 Speaker 4: So it was like this 10 second of pause. You know, Craig, 231 00:14:12,416 --> 00:14:14,616 Speaker 4: I looked at each other. Well, you know what? 232 00:14:14,796 --> 00:14:19,776 Speaker 3: Remember what Beth, remember you told you at Surfer? We thought, well, Mickey. 233 00:14:19,836 --> 00:14:21,036 Speaker 4: He never farted. 234 00:14:22,096 --> 00:14:23,736 Speaker 3: Hannah's a bowl of that stew. Yeah. 235 00:14:25,476 --> 00:14:28,576 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig decided to ignore their assignment for Surfer 236 00:14:28,916 --> 00:14:33,256 Speaker 1: in favor of something more sustaining. The stew was good. 237 00:14:34,316 --> 00:14:38,466 Speaker 1: And a lifetime supply of Mickey stories? That would be 238 00:14:38,666 --> 00:14:39,526 Speaker 1: totally worth it. 239 00:14:50,646 --> 00:14:52,886 Speaker 4: We took his offer up on the stew and Craig 240 00:14:52,906 --> 00:14:54,956 Speaker 4: didn't take any photos of him and I never wrote 241 00:14:54,996 --> 00:14:57,516 Speaker 4: about him. But we all hung out together and surfed 242 00:14:57,536 --> 00:15:01,726 Speaker 4: together through New Year's and Christmas and had a great 243 00:15:01,766 --> 00:15:04,466 Speaker 4: time surfing incredible ways through that winter. It was just 244 00:15:04,586 --> 00:15:10,046 Speaker 4: an epic winter of surf in France. Nobody was around 245 00:15:10,086 --> 00:15:13,496 Speaker 4: except it seemed like Mickey and us. And that was it, really. 246 00:15:13,526 --> 00:15:14,196 Speaker 4: That was it. 247 00:15:15,656 --> 00:15:18,776 Speaker 1: When Kevin and Craig met him, Mickey was alone and 248 00:15:18,816 --> 00:15:22,116 Speaker 1: he was hiding. He was evading any number of angry 249 00:15:22,296 --> 00:15:26,776 Speaker 1: innkeepers and restaurateurs and antiques dealers, having burned bridges from 250 00:15:26,856 --> 00:15:30,616 Speaker 1: Hong Kong to Nairobi. There was a bench warrant out 251 00:15:30,656 --> 00:15:33,846 Speaker 1: for him in California, a federal warrant for the alleged 252 00:15:33,916 --> 00:15:38,166 Speaker 1: passport fraud, and another federal warrant for allegedly defrauding the 253 00:15:38,226 --> 00:15:44,066 Speaker 1: diner's club of nearly $ 20, 000. Interpol was looking for him, too. 254 00:15:45,426 --> 00:15:50,246 Speaker 1: Add to that, Linda had left. She was exhausted, sick 255 00:15:50,286 --> 00:15:54,496 Speaker 1: of fighting, sick of running. And, she told authorities, she 256 00:15:54,516 --> 00:15:58,116 Speaker 1: was afraid of Mickey. He was so paranoid. She'd run 257 00:15:58,156 --> 00:16:01,196 Speaker 1: away from him in the middle of the night. A 258 00:16:01,256 --> 00:16:05,156 Speaker 1: couple of wide-eyed surfers from SoCal were the perfect distraction 259 00:16:05,196 --> 00:16:05,656 Speaker 1: for Mickey. 260 00:16:05,676 --> 00:16:09,966 Speaker 4: You know, he was so entertaining. I mean, it's hard 261 00:16:10,006 --> 00:16:13,526 Speaker 4: to describe. He seemed to like company. You know, he 262 00:16:13,566 --> 00:16:16,226 Speaker 4: wasn't like he was a reckless or a hermit. He 263 00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:20,506 Speaker 4: wasn't completely antisocial. He was actually quite social, but he 264 00:16:21,876 --> 00:16:23,496 Speaker 4: it was almost like a big game for him. 265 00:16:23,396 --> 00:16:23,976 Speaker 3: All the time. 266 00:16:23,996 --> 00:16:27,796 Speaker 4: You know, the, the social interaction with, with people he'd 267 00:16:27,826 --> 00:16:30,886 Speaker 4: like to, he had a wicked sense of humor and he, 268 00:16:31,006 --> 00:16:32,186 Speaker 4: he liked to keep it sharpened. 269 00:16:34,706 --> 00:16:37,426 Speaker 1: Mickey was as quick as ever mentally. And for a 270 00:16:37,466 --> 00:16:40,206 Speaker 1: guy in his mid forties, he was surfing well. 271 00:16:41,386 --> 00:16:44,246 Speaker 5: At that time in the fall of 77, Mickey was 272 00:16:44,846 --> 00:16:48,726 Speaker 5: very athletic, still, you know, a great surfer had his 273 00:16:48,806 --> 00:16:54,146 Speaker 5: classic style. And, uh, We never really saw him physically 274 00:16:54,206 --> 00:16:56,426 Speaker 5: surfing at Malibu. We did see it in movies and 275 00:16:56,726 --> 00:16:59,146 Speaker 5: later on times, but you could definitely tell it was 276 00:16:59,216 --> 00:17:01,596 Speaker 5: Mickey out surfing, you know, the waves when he was 277 00:17:01,656 --> 00:17:02,216 Speaker 5: out in water. 278 00:17:03,716 --> 00:17:05,996 Speaker 1: Hanging out with Mickey, Kevin and Craig got to know 279 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:09,856 Speaker 1: his quirks. Mickey was convinced the world was going to hell, 280 00:17:10,376 --> 00:17:11,516 Speaker 1: starting with his own body. 281 00:17:12,696 --> 00:17:16,456 Speaker 4: I remember him also as being somewhat of a hypochondriac. Remember, 282 00:17:16,496 --> 00:17:19,616 Speaker 4: he had a shelf of pills he would take every day. 283 00:17:20,436 --> 00:17:22,056 Speaker 4: I'm like, Mickey, what are all these pills? All my 284 00:17:22,116 --> 00:17:27,716 Speaker 4: knees are popping. And he had pills for every conceivable ailment. 285 00:17:27,956 --> 00:17:30,896 Speaker 4: He was taking them all the time. He did complain 286 00:17:30,936 --> 00:17:35,376 Speaker 4: a lot about knees popping and backs hurting and a 287 00:17:36,296 --> 00:17:39,566 Speaker 4: little prematurely, you know, because for my opinion now, because 288 00:17:39,626 --> 00:17:42,086 Speaker 4: he would have been in his 40s then. And, you know, 289 00:17:42,126 --> 00:17:44,726 Speaker 4: that seems like, wow, you're still in your prime now 290 00:17:44,746 --> 00:17:47,306 Speaker 4: to be now. But he was already complaining quite a 291 00:17:47,326 --> 00:17:47,646 Speaker 4: bit then. 292 00:17:50,306 --> 00:17:53,386 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig were broke and traveling light. They had 293 00:17:53,446 --> 00:17:57,946 Speaker 1: T-shirts and jeans. Mickey was always dressed to the nines. 294 00:17:59,046 --> 00:18:01,046 Speaker 1: Even if he was a little threadbare from his years 295 00:18:01,106 --> 00:18:04,776 Speaker 1: on the run living in a van, Mickey was still dapper. 296 00:18:04,796 --> 00:18:08,256 Speaker 5: I think that's a lot why the French liked him 297 00:18:08,316 --> 00:18:10,356 Speaker 5: so much, because he really would, you know, make an 298 00:18:10,416 --> 00:18:12,976 Speaker 5: effort to, you know, look his best. 299 00:18:13,276 --> 00:18:17,086 Speaker 2: You know, he had that classic California rogue look to him. 300 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:20,096 Speaker 4: You know, we were coming up to New Year's, big 301 00:18:20,496 --> 00:18:24,356 Speaker 4: party time. There's parties here and there. He said, hey, guys, 302 00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:26,276 Speaker 4: what do you think of this one? I'm ready for anything. 303 00:18:26,296 --> 00:18:30,236 Speaker 4: And he broke out this jacket, right? And it was, 304 00:18:30,716 --> 00:18:32,446 Speaker 4: you know, he had some white pants on. He had 305 00:18:32,626 --> 00:18:35,726 Speaker 4: the white jacket. I said, Mickey, that's pretty spiffy, you know, 306 00:18:35,786 --> 00:18:38,366 Speaker 4: white on white. You're ready for stepping out. He said, yeah, 307 00:18:38,386 --> 00:18:40,306 Speaker 4: but watch this. Just in case I go to a 308 00:18:40,346 --> 00:18:42,746 Speaker 4: different party that has kind of a different scene happening, 309 00:18:43,146 --> 00:18:44,986 Speaker 4: watch this. And he took the jacket and he turned 310 00:18:45,006 --> 00:18:46,846 Speaker 4: it inside out. And it was leopard skinned. 311 00:18:48,536 --> 00:18:49,036 Speaker 3: So what? 312 00:18:51,176 --> 00:18:53,676 Speaker 4: Leper skin, it could be a leper skin jacket or 313 00:18:53,696 --> 00:18:56,446 Speaker 4: it could be a white jacket, depending on what party 314 00:18:56,486 --> 00:18:58,626 Speaker 4: it was you were going to. And he loved that. 315 00:18:58,726 --> 00:19:01,066 Speaker 4: He just loved the fact that he could kind of 316 00:19:01,486 --> 00:19:03,626 Speaker 4: go and switch personas from party to party. 317 00:19:06,806 --> 00:19:09,156 Speaker 1: During this time, Mickey was living in his van in 318 00:19:09,176 --> 00:19:13,366 Speaker 1: the Gittery parking lot. But Mickey's van wasn't just any van. 319 00:19:14,206 --> 00:19:18,726 Speaker 1: It was a gigantic, late-model, dark green Mercedes camper. It 320 00:19:18,766 --> 00:19:22,346 Speaker 1: was his home, his safe place, and also his escape 321 00:19:22,386 --> 00:19:26,096 Speaker 1: plan if anyone closed in. Or if the surf started 322 00:19:26,156 --> 00:19:28,316 Speaker 1: sucking or the water got too cold and he wanted 323 00:19:28,356 --> 00:19:32,656 Speaker 1: to move on. One of Mickey's girlfriends told Mickey's biographer, 324 00:19:33,376 --> 00:19:37,666 Speaker 1: That van was Mickey. It had his heart, soul, story, travels, 325 00:19:38,046 --> 00:19:42,156 Speaker 1: his secrets. which were in a black briefcase. Also his scent, 326 00:19:42,656 --> 00:19:43,996 Speaker 1: which was quite like a lion. 327 00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:48,796 Speaker 4: Mercedes van was something else. It was state-of-the-art. Most of 328 00:19:48,816 --> 00:19:51,516 Speaker 4: the surfers that had these converted VW vans and that, 329 00:19:51,596 --> 00:19:54,006 Speaker 4: and this was a thing that was sizable. It was, 330 00:19:54,626 --> 00:19:56,006 Speaker 4: you know, like a motorhome size. 331 00:19:56,026 --> 00:19:57,326 Speaker 1: Like a kitchen in there? 332 00:19:57,586 --> 00:19:58,386 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, kitchen, bathroom. 333 00:19:59,386 --> 00:20:02,656 Speaker 4: The whole works. It had everything you would see in 334 00:20:02,716 --> 00:20:06,956 Speaker 4: a Winnebago, but with that great German engineering and style. 335 00:20:07,636 --> 00:20:10,316 Speaker 4: So it was top of the line, a van. You 336 00:20:10,336 --> 00:20:13,676 Speaker 4: would not see any surfer driving around. Only Mickey had 337 00:20:13,716 --> 00:20:15,296 Speaker 4: this van, and he was known for it. 338 00:20:15,696 --> 00:20:18,876 Speaker 3: Fancy. Yeah, very fancy. It cost a pretty penny at 339 00:20:18,916 --> 00:20:19,336 Speaker 3: that time. 340 00:20:20,186 --> 00:20:22,886 Speaker 5: We would usually be sitting in the front two seats, 341 00:20:23,146 --> 00:20:25,986 Speaker 5: and Mickey would be cooking up the stew or serving 342 00:20:26,026 --> 00:20:29,486 Speaker 5: it up, and the conversation would go on back that way. 343 00:20:30,386 --> 00:20:33,836 Speaker 5: Usually these conversations would go on for either a half hour, 344 00:20:33,876 --> 00:20:36,076 Speaker 5: depending on the surf, or up to two or three 345 00:20:36,116 --> 00:20:40,796 Speaker 5: hours at night. So it was a lot of good conversation, 346 00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:42,936 Speaker 5: I remember, covering all kinds of subjects. 347 00:20:44,206 --> 00:20:50,436 Speaker 1: Subjects like Mickey's apocalyptic philosophy, the surf, the price of gold, politics, 348 00:20:51,216 --> 00:20:56,396 Speaker 1: the surf, and of course, the surf. But Kevin and 349 00:20:56,436 --> 00:21:00,336 Speaker 1: Craig noticed a wistfulness in Mickey for his youth and 350 00:21:00,396 --> 00:21:00,996 Speaker 1: for his home. 351 00:21:02,416 --> 00:21:05,976 Speaker 5: There was a certain kind of sadness for Mickey being 352 00:21:06,016 --> 00:21:08,476 Speaker 5: around him that I remember. Kind of, he wished he 353 00:21:08,496 --> 00:21:12,166 Speaker 5: could still be in California for years. aside from all 354 00:21:12,186 --> 00:21:15,266 Speaker 5: of his other troubles, that he still loved California. And 355 00:21:15,486 --> 00:21:19,166 Speaker 5: now he could not go back to California, really. I 356 00:21:19,206 --> 00:21:21,286 Speaker 5: think there was a certain sadness to his character when 357 00:21:21,326 --> 00:21:23,546 Speaker 5: he talked about California to us. 358 00:21:23,586 --> 00:21:26,516 Speaker 2: He'd want to know what's going on, what's being developed. 359 00:21:26,576 --> 00:21:29,656 Speaker 4: He was in exile because of his grifter ways. But 360 00:21:29,676 --> 00:21:34,776 Speaker 4: part of him also had this sort of romanticized, idealized 361 00:21:34,836 --> 00:21:39,486 Speaker 4: version of going someplace and finding more empty, great ways, 362 00:21:39,546 --> 00:21:42,586 Speaker 4: like he'd had in Malibu in the 50s before it 363 00:21:42,626 --> 00:21:45,776 Speaker 4: turned into something else. Because a lot of our conversations 364 00:21:45,836 --> 00:21:48,396 Speaker 4: would kind of talk about where did you go to 365 00:21:48,456 --> 00:21:50,496 Speaker 4: to get Empty Waves? What was it like? You want 366 00:21:50,516 --> 00:21:53,436 Speaker 4: to know all about Central America and what the waves 367 00:21:53,476 --> 00:21:57,036 Speaker 4: were like and where we found empty great spots. And 368 00:21:57,056 --> 00:22:00,496 Speaker 4: he was really inquisitive about the details. So I think 369 00:22:00,536 --> 00:22:03,546 Speaker 4: he kind of sensed in us this sort of, we 370 00:22:03,586 --> 00:22:06,446 Speaker 4: had this romantic idealized version. We were going to escape 371 00:22:06,466 --> 00:22:09,936 Speaker 4: the crowds, the madness of Southern California and That's what 372 00:22:10,136 --> 00:22:12,216 Speaker 4: got started on our travels. You know, that was the 373 00:22:12,616 --> 00:22:15,656 Speaker 4: driving force, the impetus to get away and find new 374 00:22:15,736 --> 00:22:20,036 Speaker 4: empty waves and hopefully find our own personal Malibu. And 375 00:22:20,096 --> 00:22:22,596 Speaker 4: I think Mickey always held on to that kind of 376 00:22:22,626 --> 00:22:23,406 Speaker 4: hope and ideal. 377 00:22:24,986 --> 00:22:28,326 Speaker 1: But there was always the possibility lingering in the back 378 00:22:28,346 --> 00:22:32,706 Speaker 1: of their minds that Mickey was playing them. They knew 379 00:22:32,766 --> 00:22:36,686 Speaker 1: Mickey's reputation as a hustler. Kevin and Craig, by their 380 00:22:36,786 --> 00:22:40,336 Speaker 1: own admission, were pretty naive. but they weren't fools. 381 00:22:41,556 --> 00:22:44,476 Speaker 5: Even the people that got taken advantage of by Mickey, 382 00:22:44,776 --> 00:22:48,136 Speaker 5: he was so charismatic that in a lot of ways 383 00:22:48,176 --> 00:22:50,096 Speaker 5: they were kind of like, wow, I've got a Mickey 384 00:22:50,316 --> 00:22:53,456 Speaker 5: Dora story to tell, even though I lost my camera 385 00:22:53,616 --> 00:22:56,516 Speaker 5: or something else or my girlfriend or something else, but 386 00:22:56,576 --> 00:22:58,336 Speaker 5: it was Mickey Dora who did that. 387 00:22:58,356 --> 00:23:01,706 Speaker 4: You had to always be kind of cautious about what 388 00:23:01,726 --> 00:23:02,686 Speaker 4: you were stepping into. 389 00:23:03,666 --> 00:23:06,866 Speaker 5: I think he did have a reputation around, so just 390 00:23:06,906 --> 00:23:11,316 Speaker 5: kind of People say, just be careful around Mickey, because. 391 00:23:13,216 --> 00:23:15,356 Speaker 2: You don't know what he's kind of up to or thinking. 392 00:23:15,886 --> 00:23:20,306 Speaker 5: So we knew that we really enjoyed the relationship that 393 00:23:20,386 --> 00:23:21,846 Speaker 5: we had with Mickey at the time while we were 394 00:23:21,866 --> 00:23:22,306 Speaker 5: in France. 395 00:23:22,386 --> 00:23:25,226 Speaker 2: But somewhere, something was going to pop up. 396 00:23:26,626 --> 00:23:34,366 Speaker 1: And of course, something did pop up. Eventually, inevitably... Mickey's 397 00:23:34,486 --> 00:23:39,846 Speaker 1: charm seemed less companionable and more intentional. He wanted something 398 00:23:39,906 --> 00:23:42,966 Speaker 1: from them, but they couldn't figure out what. 399 00:23:44,236 --> 00:23:47,176 Speaker 4: As we got to know him, we realized this guy's 400 00:23:47,276 --> 00:23:49,316 Speaker 4: always up to something, and we never quite knew what 401 00:23:49,356 --> 00:23:52,056 Speaker 4: it was. Remember he would have us take bottles of 402 00:23:52,116 --> 00:23:53,096 Speaker 4: wine back and. 403 00:23:53,096 --> 00:23:54,216 Speaker 3: Forth across the border? 404 00:23:54,236 --> 00:23:56,756 Speaker 4: Yes. Can you take this wine and bring it back? 405 00:23:56,826 --> 00:23:59,466 Speaker 4: And why is he having to... Why are we bringing 406 00:23:59,486 --> 00:24:00,386 Speaker 4: this errand for Mickey? 407 00:24:00,406 --> 00:24:00,766 Speaker 3: I don't know. 408 00:24:01,326 --> 00:24:04,106 Speaker 4: We would good naturedly go along with some of these things. 409 00:24:05,106 --> 00:24:07,976 Speaker 4: And I think he was just kind of sensing about 410 00:24:08,006 --> 00:24:12,576 Speaker 4: how he could kind of work with us or manipulate 411 00:24:12,616 --> 00:24:16,436 Speaker 4: us or deal with us for. 412 00:24:15,576 --> 00:24:16,376 Speaker 3: One of his schemes. 413 00:24:18,556 --> 00:24:21,316 Speaker 1: Later, they'd figure out that Mickey had been testing them, 414 00:24:22,136 --> 00:24:23,596 Speaker 1: seeing how far he could push them. 415 00:24:23,616 --> 00:24:28,466 Speaker 4: He said as often, he's kind of fools errands to get. refill, 416 00:24:28,586 --> 00:24:30,306 Speaker 4: not even refill a bottle of wine, bring the wine 417 00:24:30,326 --> 00:24:32,006 Speaker 4: and bring it back. I think he wanted to see 418 00:24:32,046 --> 00:24:34,326 Speaker 4: if we're going to do anything with the wine they'd 419 00:24:34,376 --> 00:24:37,436 Speaker 4: given us. Looking back on it, probably that we were 420 00:24:37,456 --> 00:24:39,456 Speaker 4: too naive to even know at the time, what's this 421 00:24:39,536 --> 00:24:41,856 Speaker 4: all about? But I think he was kind of testing 422 00:24:41,896 --> 00:24:43,816 Speaker 4: the waters to see how far, you know, what would 423 00:24:43,856 --> 00:24:44,196 Speaker 4: we do? 424 00:24:45,036 --> 00:24:47,476 Speaker 1: He sent you with a full bottle to bring, just 425 00:24:47,536 --> 00:24:50,336 Speaker 1: cross the border and come back with that same bottle? 426 00:24:50,356 --> 00:24:51,946 Speaker 3: Yeah, just to see, I want you to do it. 427 00:24:52,376 --> 00:24:52,596 Speaker 1: Why? 428 00:24:52,776 --> 00:24:55,296 Speaker 3: Just go ahead and do it. Don't ask questions. Just, 429 00:24:55,576 --> 00:24:57,026 Speaker 3: you know, go ahead and please do this for me. 430 00:24:57,396 --> 00:24:59,516 Speaker 1: I mean, cult leaders do that when they want to 431 00:25:00,136 --> 00:25:03,376 Speaker 1: start to create. They do... Groom. 432 00:25:04,096 --> 00:25:05,136 Speaker 2: It's grooming, yes. 433 00:25:05,656 --> 00:25:07,256 Speaker 4: This went on for like a week or two. And 434 00:25:08,296 --> 00:25:11,906 Speaker 4: I can't even remember all the other little nonsensical errands 435 00:25:12,166 --> 00:25:14,166 Speaker 4: that he was asking us to do. And some we 436 00:25:14,186 --> 00:25:16,146 Speaker 4: said yes, and some we said, come on, Mickey, we're 437 00:25:16,766 --> 00:25:20,066 Speaker 4: not going to stop. But then that was the warm-up 438 00:25:20,086 --> 00:25:21,506 Speaker 4: to the big prize. 439 00:25:22,986 --> 00:25:25,826 Speaker 1: Mickey hadn't just been toying around with them for fun. 440 00:25:26,516 --> 00:25:28,876 Speaker 1: and he didn't really need that bottle of wine taken 441 00:25:28,936 --> 00:25:32,486 Speaker 1: over the border and back. He was laying the groundwork 442 00:25:32,556 --> 00:25:36,366 Speaker 1: for something much grander, a plot they came to think 443 00:25:36,446 --> 00:25:50,046 Speaker 1: of as the van scam. Kevin and Craig had come 444 00:25:50,086 --> 00:25:53,406 Speaker 1: to France with the goal of finding Mickey Dora. They'd 445 00:25:53,446 --> 00:25:58,886 Speaker 1: played it cool, worked their way in, cultivated him. But 446 00:25:58,946 --> 00:26:03,586 Speaker 1: then they'd fallen under Mickey's spell, gorged themselves on his stew, 447 00:26:04,426 --> 00:26:08,076 Speaker 1: stayed too long in the van, gone to parties with 448 00:26:08,176 --> 00:26:12,936 Speaker 1: Mickey dressed in his magic reversible suit. Mickey'd even introduced 449 00:26:13,016 --> 00:26:14,596 Speaker 1: Kevin to his future wife. 450 00:26:15,976 --> 00:26:18,836 Speaker 4: I'd seen her on the Gittery, the streets the day before. 451 00:26:18,896 --> 00:26:21,576 Speaker 4: We'd kind of seen each other, but we were both 452 00:26:21,596 --> 00:26:25,986 Speaker 4: too shy to talk. And then a few days later, 453 00:26:26,666 --> 00:26:29,346 Speaker 4: I'm at Lafiteña looking at the really good ways and 454 00:26:29,406 --> 00:26:32,646 Speaker 4: up pulled a Mercedes van. And lo and behold, in 455 00:26:32,666 --> 00:26:35,906 Speaker 4: the passenger seat, she was sitting there. She's friends with Mickey. 456 00:26:36,706 --> 00:26:39,586 Speaker 4: So Mickey stepped out and, you know, there I am 457 00:26:39,626 --> 00:26:43,056 Speaker 4: and he introduced me. Hey, Kevin, here's Jocelyn and introduced 458 00:26:43,136 --> 00:26:46,736 Speaker 4: us and took it from there. We've been married ever since. 459 00:26:49,616 --> 00:26:54,876 Speaker 1: Maybe Mickey Dora had found and cultivated them, not the 460 00:26:54,896 --> 00:26:58,176 Speaker 1: other way around. He'd wooed them over to his side, 461 00:26:58,496 --> 00:27:02,346 Speaker 1: played on their weaknesses, shaped them to his ends. Because 462 00:27:02,386 --> 00:27:05,786 Speaker 1: he had something big in mind for these two carefree 463 00:27:05,826 --> 00:27:10,086 Speaker 1: young men. Look, they'd already given up on the Surfer 464 00:27:10,126 --> 00:27:13,846 Speaker 1: Magazine assignment. They might as well work for him. 465 00:27:13,866 --> 00:27:17,306 Speaker 4: He came up with a grand plan one day where 466 00:27:17,326 --> 00:27:19,546 Speaker 4: he sat us down in the van with, of course, 467 00:27:19,566 --> 00:27:22,536 Speaker 4: the bowl of stew and the bottle of wine. He said, look, 468 00:27:22,576 --> 00:27:24,656 Speaker 4: I can see you guys are, you know, broke even 469 00:27:24,696 --> 00:27:26,816 Speaker 4: beyond any of them. thing I would believe in but 470 00:27:26,856 --> 00:27:29,996 Speaker 4: you are that broke you know and so I've got 471 00:27:30,056 --> 00:27:33,306 Speaker 4: a plan where we can all keep traveling and surfing 472 00:27:33,326 --> 00:27:36,246 Speaker 4: and doing the stuff we like to do and you 473 00:27:36,266 --> 00:27:38,186 Speaker 4: just have to go along with my plan and it's 474 00:27:38,226 --> 00:27:41,466 Speaker 4: all going to work out so we said okay Mickey 475 00:27:41,486 --> 00:27:44,886 Speaker 4: we're all open for anything fill us in and he 476 00:27:44,906 --> 00:27:47,306 Speaker 4: said okay I've got this Mercedes van here you're all 477 00:27:47,366 --> 00:27:51,006 Speaker 4: sitting in and which by the way he had bought 478 00:27:51,046 --> 00:27:53,066 Speaker 4: in England and written a bad check for of course 479 00:27:53,086 --> 00:27:57,246 Speaker 4: so Interpol was out looking for him and in the France. Anyway, 480 00:27:57,266 --> 00:27:59,186 Speaker 4: so the van was bought on a bad check and 481 00:27:59,226 --> 00:28:03,126 Speaker 4: Harry was hanging out, hiding out in France. And he said, 482 00:28:03,366 --> 00:28:06,226 Speaker 4: what I'll do is we'll go to Spain, three of us, 483 00:28:06,306 --> 00:28:10,046 Speaker 4: and then I'm going to sell you guys the van there. 484 00:28:11,716 --> 00:28:14,306 Speaker 1: In Spain, Mickey told them, they'd be able to buy 485 00:28:14,346 --> 00:28:17,976 Speaker 1: a Swiss insurance policy on the van in their names. 486 00:28:19,176 --> 00:28:22,696 Speaker 4: And you guys are, of course, established photojournalist team, so 487 00:28:22,716 --> 00:28:25,536 Speaker 4: it won't be a big deal and you're travel around 488 00:28:25,636 --> 00:28:28,276 Speaker 4: Europe doing some stories. So then you drive the van 489 00:28:28,336 --> 00:28:31,876 Speaker 4: to Italy and to a place I'm going to instruct 490 00:28:31,896 --> 00:28:33,596 Speaker 4: you to go to. Well, it turned out at this 491 00:28:33,656 --> 00:28:38,816 Speaker 4: time there was a lot of activity going on in Italy. 492 00:28:38,576 --> 00:28:39,576 Speaker 3: With the Red Brigade. 493 00:28:40,866 --> 00:28:43,906 Speaker 1: The Red Brigade was a violent far-left guerrilla group. 494 00:28:44,806 --> 00:28:47,546 Speaker 4: A lot of social unrest and they were blowing up 495 00:28:47,606 --> 00:28:51,806 Speaker 4: cars and burning down buildings. So The Red Brigade, they 496 00:28:51,846 --> 00:28:54,026 Speaker 4: were very active in Italy. Mickey was going to send 497 00:28:54,046 --> 00:28:55,646 Speaker 4: us to a town where they were doing a lot 498 00:28:55,686 --> 00:28:59,796 Speaker 4: of mischief. And we were checking the hotel there. And 499 00:28:59,816 --> 00:29:02,516 Speaker 4: then Mickey would sort of, in the stealth of the night, 500 00:29:04,216 --> 00:29:08,176 Speaker 4: jump into the van and drive straight to Greece, where 501 00:29:08,196 --> 00:29:10,096 Speaker 4: he had somebody in Greece who was going to buy 502 00:29:10,136 --> 00:29:14,206 Speaker 4: this van, no questions asked. And we wake up the 503 00:29:14,236 --> 00:29:16,946 Speaker 4: next day and we report our van stolen to the 504 00:29:17,006 --> 00:29:18,086 Speaker 4: Italian authorities and. 505 00:29:19,596 --> 00:29:22,176 Speaker 1: Mickey thought the Italian police would be ready to blame 506 00:29:22,216 --> 00:29:26,096 Speaker 1: the Red Brigade and sympathize with clueless Americans who had 507 00:29:26,146 --> 00:29:28,146 Speaker 1: just rolled in in a Mercedes van. 508 00:29:29,246 --> 00:29:33,506 Speaker 4: They'll go on that premise. He said, and then what 509 00:29:33,546 --> 00:29:37,246 Speaker 4: happened is the insurance company in Switzerland, you know, you 510 00:29:37,266 --> 00:29:41,066 Speaker 4: can cash in on the policy there and we all 511 00:29:41,086 --> 00:29:44,486 Speaker 4: meet back here in France afterwards and we divvy up 512 00:29:44,606 --> 00:29:46,486 Speaker 4: the money, half to me and half to you two guys. 513 00:29:46,506 --> 00:29:54,916 Speaker 4: We're involving now five countries, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Switzerland. 514 00:29:54,936 --> 00:30:00,146 Speaker 4: The list goes on. But I'm not doing justice to 515 00:30:00,186 --> 00:30:03,566 Speaker 4: the detail with which Mickey had planned this. He really 516 00:30:03,606 --> 00:30:06,456 Speaker 4: had it down to like all these things a time 517 00:30:06,476 --> 00:30:09,136 Speaker 4: schedule was going to happen just as he had planned 518 00:30:09,176 --> 00:30:11,276 Speaker 4: it we were going to just go along with his 519 00:30:11,336 --> 00:30:14,116 Speaker 4: instructions and everything was going to be cool and we 520 00:30:14,176 --> 00:30:16,116 Speaker 4: were going to end up cashing in on this great 521 00:30:16,156 --> 00:30:19,196 Speaker 4: policy come back to france celebrate over a bottle of 522 00:30:19,256 --> 00:30:21,756 Speaker 4: wine and divvy up the money and i mean he 523 00:30:21,796 --> 00:30:24,656 Speaker 4: made it sound like so enticing like this can't go 524 00:30:24,696 --> 00:30:27,066 Speaker 4: wrong this is great. We're going to have, we're going 525 00:30:27,086 --> 00:30:28,926 Speaker 4: to have money to travel for the next year. We 526 00:30:28,946 --> 00:30:31,466 Speaker 4: go wherever we want. Just, we just have to go 527 00:30:31,486 --> 00:30:32,746 Speaker 4: with Mickey's grand plan. 528 00:30:32,846 --> 00:30:33,396 Speaker 3: Let's do it. 529 00:30:33,486 --> 00:30:35,786 Speaker 4: And so we said, okay, just give us a little 530 00:30:35,806 --> 00:30:37,456 Speaker 4: bit of time to think about it. Cause it did 531 00:30:37,496 --> 00:30:41,256 Speaker 4: kind of cross a little, uh, there were some moral 532 00:30:41,316 --> 00:30:44,936 Speaker 4: issues that it was crossing some boundaries. We kind of 533 00:30:44,956 --> 00:30:48,766 Speaker 4: had ourselves. And then of course, getting involved with something 534 00:30:48,786 --> 00:30:51,126 Speaker 4: with Mickey, you always got to a little wonder, uh, 535 00:30:52,496 --> 00:30:54,556 Speaker 4: is it going to backfire? And then, so we thought 536 00:30:54,576 --> 00:30:57,406 Speaker 4: about it overnight and went back and forth. And then 537 00:30:57,426 --> 00:30:59,486 Speaker 4: the next day said, Mickey, it sounds really good, but 538 00:31:00,886 --> 00:31:02,726 Speaker 4: what happens at the end? You know, when let's say 539 00:31:02,746 --> 00:31:05,726 Speaker 4: it all goes through and Mickey said, no problem. We 540 00:31:05,766 --> 00:31:08,086 Speaker 4: just meet here and, you know, half the money goes 541 00:31:08,106 --> 00:31:09,666 Speaker 4: to you and half to me. He said, of course 542 00:31:10,126 --> 00:31:13,036 Speaker 4: I will have to make deductions for whatever it costs 543 00:31:13,096 --> 00:31:15,776 Speaker 4: me to, you know, support you guys for the month 544 00:31:15,856 --> 00:31:17,816 Speaker 4: or two it takes to this, you know, it's, it's 545 00:31:17,836 --> 00:31:19,456 Speaker 4: not going to be a free ride for you guys. And, 546 00:31:19,946 --> 00:31:22,086 Speaker 4: So I will make whatever deductions I think I have 547 00:31:22,126 --> 00:31:22,466 Speaker 4: to make. 548 00:31:23,726 --> 00:31:25,506 Speaker 3: I linked each other. Okay. 549 00:31:26,046 --> 00:31:27,506 Speaker 4: That tells us we're going to end up with a 550 00:31:27,546 --> 00:31:30,346 Speaker 4: bus ticket to London. You know, that's, that's pretty much it. 551 00:31:30,866 --> 00:31:32,926 Speaker 4: Not even a plane fare home, just a bus ticket. 552 00:31:33,226 --> 00:31:34,566 Speaker 2: An Interpol looking for us. 553 00:31:34,626 --> 00:31:36,986 Speaker 4: An Interpol looking for us. And Vicki hightailing it off 554 00:31:37,026 --> 00:31:40,146 Speaker 4: somewhere else to, in the world, New Zealand, whoever, where 555 00:31:40,506 --> 00:31:43,226 Speaker 4: skiing in Switzerland. And we're going to be the, the 556 00:31:43,306 --> 00:31:45,366 Speaker 4: straw guys and we're going to be the fall guys 557 00:31:45,386 --> 00:31:48,386 Speaker 4: for this. So, We politely said, you know, Mickey, it's 558 00:31:48,406 --> 00:31:51,326 Speaker 4: really not in our wheelhouse. We're not going to go 559 00:31:51,366 --> 00:31:55,766 Speaker 4: with this. We'd rather be poor and broken honest than 560 00:31:56,226 --> 00:31:57,606 Speaker 4: get involved in something like this. 561 00:31:57,726 --> 00:31:58,546 Speaker 3: And he just said, okay. 562 00:31:58,566 --> 00:32:00,486 Speaker 4: He just wanted to put the offer out there, and 563 00:32:00,506 --> 00:32:02,006 Speaker 4: it's there if you guys want to do it. And 564 00:32:02,606 --> 00:32:05,206 Speaker 4: I said, well, Mickey, if it's so good, why don't 565 00:32:05,246 --> 00:32:07,896 Speaker 4: you do it yourself? And he said, well, actually, I've 566 00:32:07,916 --> 00:32:11,736 Speaker 4: already done it. I can't go back to the well. 567 00:32:11,796 --> 00:32:15,076 Speaker 4: I can't do it again. So, okay, now we see it. 568 00:32:15,936 --> 00:32:17,016 Speaker 4: Then we saw the big picture. 569 00:32:18,736 --> 00:32:22,886 Speaker 1: Mickey's M.O. was to embroil other people in his elaborate plots. 570 00:32:23,986 --> 00:32:28,906 Speaker 1: And if they got burned, so what? Mickey would pussyfoot 571 00:32:28,946 --> 00:32:33,246 Speaker 1: away with his Cheshire Cat smile. But maybe he was 572 00:32:33,326 --> 00:32:37,066 Speaker 1: losing his touch. He was definitely changing. 573 00:32:37,086 --> 00:32:41,856 Speaker 4: He had a certain paranoia streak in him. The suspicion 574 00:32:41,896 --> 00:32:45,496 Speaker 4: about society in general and who was out to get him. 575 00:32:46,516 --> 00:32:51,836 Speaker 4: And I sense this kind of paranoia to his personality 576 00:32:51,876 --> 00:32:53,356 Speaker 4: that was kind of strange. 577 00:32:55,036 --> 00:32:59,276 Speaker 1: Or maybe it was just that his luck was running out. 578 00:33:00,296 --> 00:33:03,076 Speaker 4: You know, you're never really fully free from your past deeds. 579 00:33:03,816 --> 00:33:05,666 Speaker 4: And I think Mickey is a good example of that. 580 00:33:06,786 --> 00:33:09,726 Speaker 1: Kevin and Craig got out of Gittery a little wiser 581 00:33:09,786 --> 00:33:13,086 Speaker 1: to the world, but with their morals intact. and a 582 00:33:13,166 --> 00:33:18,296 Speaker 1: classic Mickey Dora story. They'd escaped, and just in time. 583 00:33:19,436 --> 00:33:31,836 Speaker 1: Being a friend of Mickey's was getting dangerous. Next time 584 00:33:31,926 --> 00:33:35,346 Speaker 1: on Lost Hills, the FBI's got questions. 585 00:33:37,346 --> 00:33:40,226 Speaker 6: I got a visit from the FBI. So they came 586 00:33:40,266 --> 00:33:42,286 Speaker 6: and they asked me all about Mickey and what I knew. 587 00:33:43,006 --> 00:33:45,946 Speaker 6: And I went out of my way to give them 588 00:33:46,026 --> 00:33:49,656 Speaker 6: as little information as I possibly could without lying to them, 589 00:33:49,676 --> 00:33:51,376 Speaker 6: because I knew lying with the FBI was a crime. 590 00:33:51,456 --> 00:33:55,496 Speaker 6: So I wasn't going to tell them anything untrue, but 591 00:33:55,536 --> 00:33:58,976 Speaker 6: I was going to, I don't recall as many times 592 00:33:59,436 --> 00:34:01,476 Speaker 6: as I could, or I don't know as many times 593 00:34:01,516 --> 00:34:03,776 Speaker 6: as I could without being obvious. 594 00:34:05,756 --> 00:34:11,936 Speaker 1: That's next in Episode 10, Aging Boy of Summer. Lost 595 00:34:11,956 --> 00:34:15,116 Speaker 1: Hills is written and reported by me, Dana Goodyear. It's 596 00:34:15,176 --> 00:34:18,276 Speaker 1: created by me and Ben Adair and produced by Western 597 00:34:18,316 --> 00:34:22,336 Speaker 1: Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you 598 00:34:22,376 --> 00:34:26,716 Speaker 1: can binge the entire season right now ad-free. Find Pushkin 599 00:34:26,756 --> 00:34:29,586 Speaker 1: Plus on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts 600 00:34:29,726 --> 00:34:32,406 Speaker 1: or at pushkin.fm slash plus.