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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Brandon Webb, former abcal in New York Times

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Speaker 1: bestselling author. If you're like me, you want real security

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Speaker 1: It's why I founded soft rep dot com military grade

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Speaker 1: That's s o f r EP dot com. Ah beat force.

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Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to software radio, special operations, military news and straight

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Speaker 1: talk with the guys and the community. How do you

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Speaker 1: think that coronavirus we named back basic military training and recruitment. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're we're already seeing an impact basic military training, right,

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Speaker 1: and uh, just about every branch and even the different

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Speaker 1: installations that conduct basic training for the different branches, have

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Speaker 1: approached different efforts to kind of curb the spread of

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen within the training facility but also within the

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Speaker 1: professionals that do the training. Right, We've seen that work

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Speaker 1: more or less effectively, But it looks like moving forward,

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Speaker 1: what just about every branch is going to do is

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Speaker 1: a they're gonna screen recruits and trainees prior to shipping them.

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Speaker 1: But that screening is usually a temperature measurement and things

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Speaker 1: like that, which doesn't necessarily tell you that a person

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Speaker 1: isn't carrying the coronavirus, right, It just tells you that

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Speaker 1: they're not exhibiting symptoms. So then they're screened again upon arrival.

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Speaker 1: And now the Marine Corps I know, for instance, but

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure every other branch at this point is

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Speaker 1: putting those trainees and recruits into a fourteen day basically

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Speaker 1: training hiatus immediately upon arrival. So effectively, any recruit or

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Speaker 1: trainee that ships out today doesn't actually start their basic

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Speaker 1: training until around two weeks after they arrive, which means

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Speaker 1: for the Marine Corps, your thirteen week recruit training is

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Speaker 1: now fifteen weeks. What makes that kind of even more

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Speaker 1: stressful on the other end is that most of these

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Speaker 1: branches are also now canceling liberty and leave following basic

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Speaker 1: training in order to limit exposure to family members in

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Speaker 1: the public at large, to try to stop someone who

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Speaker 1: just made it through training from suddenly contracting the virus. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of keeping them insulated from the public from

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Speaker 1: the minute they get there into en doc all the

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Speaker 1: way to when they reach the fleet or are the

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Speaker 1: larger force. Right, how effective is that? I think that

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a great deal more effective then

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Speaker 1: it's been. I still think that we're going to see

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Speaker 1: people test positive for the coronavirus for COVID nineteen in

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Speaker 1: training environments. And although you know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are thinking right now, but those are eighteen nineteen year

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Speaker 1: olds and great health that are training to serve in

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Speaker 1: the military. They're not really a high risk population. And

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Speaker 1: that's absolutely true. But we have to worry about readiness

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Speaker 1: if the entire force is sick at once, even though

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Speaker 1: the survival rate is extremely high, having the force sick

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Speaker 1: really compromises our ability to not just defend the nation,

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Speaker 1: but to fulfill our security obligations. Right like, America's military

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Speaker 1: apparatus is a global military infrastructure, not because we're at

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Speaker 1: war in every region, but because we're a stabilizing presence

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Speaker 1: in many regions. Right and this is the reason why

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Speaker 1: you see things like the Truman, the Nimics carrier. Truman's

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Speaker 1: just gonna stay out to see right now, even though

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Speaker 1: deployment is over, we're trying to make sure that we've

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Speaker 1: got at least two operational carriers that can respond to

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Speaker 1: any sort of situation that might pop up. So we're

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Speaker 1: definitely going to see this be an issue for training

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Speaker 1: moving forward, and we're definitely going to see this being

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Speaker 1: an issue for readiness moving forward. But with that said,

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Speaker 1: I think that the military has been I would contend,

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Speaker 1: more proactive than the federal government has been toward our

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Speaker 1: civilian population. The military started in enacting general pandemic procedures

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Speaker 1: very early, prior to the US taking any real, real

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Speaker 1: effective action, and because of that we didn't see a

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Speaker 1: lot of tests, a lot of positive tests, and the

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Speaker 1: military early on, we're now seeing a great deal more

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Speaker 1: of it. But again, survival rate is going to be

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Speaker 1: extremely high. It's really a question of readiness and it's

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Speaker 1: a question of standard of living, of quality of life. Right.

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Speaker 1: We don't want these service members to hate their lives

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Speaker 1: in service, but we also need to keep them safe. Right.

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Speaker 1: These are the same thing off that we're asking each

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Speaker 1: other about going to Walmart out here in the civilian world. Right,

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Speaker 1: we want to maintain our quality of life. We also

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Speaker 1: want to mitigate risk, and when it comes to the military,

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Speaker 1: we need to be prepared to answer the call any

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Speaker 1: time that it's given. So I think that the challenge

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Speaker 1: is bigger for the military than it might be for

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Speaker 1: a lot of us out here in the civilian world,

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Speaker 1: because they're expected to maintain that readiness level to the

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Speaker 1: highest level that we can possibly do, despite being faced

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Speaker 1: by the same threat that the rest of us are. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to see more changes, but I

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Speaker 1: think the changes that they've already made are generally in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. Do you think that that the military's

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Speaker 1: reaction has been better because of the there's a unit

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Speaker 1: of command as opposed to the federal and state governments,

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Speaker 1: which are essentially acting on their own. I think that

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Speaker 1: really speaks to a lot of it. And I and

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily fault the government for not being able

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Speaker 1: to take as concise action as the military has, because

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Speaker 1: you know, you see in places like Taiwan where they

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Speaker 1: did a really good job kind of bottling up this

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Speaker 1: issue very quickly, right and you saw it again in China,

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Speaker 1: along with a great deal of misinformation and disinformation. But

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Speaker 1: you did see China take very very abrasive, I would say,

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Speaker 1: harsh action in order to curb the spread of this virus.

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Speaker 1: In the United States, we tend not to be accepting

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Speaker 1: of that type of thing from our government in the

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Speaker 1: United States, even now when we have a federal government

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Speaker 1: that that's led by you know, I would say the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration has tried their best to stay as hands

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Speaker 1: off as they can for a number of good reasons.

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Speaker 1: Keeping the onus of responsibility on the state level, at

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Speaker 1: the governor level. I think that it's much better for

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Speaker 1: messaging because if Donald Trump ordered the nation to lockdown

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Speaker 1: number one, it would have an effect on the economy.

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Speaker 1: But number two, there's a lot of very liberal states

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Speaker 1: with local governments that are at odds with the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration a lot of times. So by instead letting that

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Speaker 1: state's local government enact hey, we're gonna shelter at home,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to it being a federal mandate, I think

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Speaker 1: it's better received by many. But but the truth is

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Speaker 1: is that America at large as a whole is compromised

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Speaker 1: to a certain degree and our ability to respond to

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Speaker 1: this stuff just because we're so fervent in defending our liberties.

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Speaker 1: I would argue maybe not so much when it comes

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Speaker 1: to things like freedom of speech or you know, the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment, but we're very fervent and defending against inconvenience.

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Speaker 1: As Americans, we do not want to be inconvenienced. I

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Speaker 1: do not want not just inconvenience. Obviously, some people out

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Speaker 1: there are in terrible circumstances right now, but in the

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Speaker 1: United States, we don't want to be told we can't

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Speaker 1: go to the store. We don't want to be told

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Speaker 1: that we can't go to parties with our friends. And

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Speaker 1: when we're told by the government that we can't. Among

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Speaker 1: a certain population of Americans, I think that that's seen

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Speaker 1: as as an overt step towards fascism, and they want

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Speaker 1: to stand up against it. So they go when they

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Speaker 1: act in what I would consider to be irresponsible behavior,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna go to the beach anyway. They're gonna go

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Speaker 1: part party anyway, because the government can't tell me what

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Speaker 1: to do. Now, the government wouldn't need to tell us

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Speaker 1: what to do if we all took personal individual responsibility,

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Speaker 1: which I think is the backside of that liberty coin

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Speaker 1: that we in America have sort of lost sight of

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Speaker 1: to a certain extent. With liberty comes responsibility, right. Uh,

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Speaker 1: The reason why you want to be freedom from the

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Speaker 1: free from the government is because you want to be

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Speaker 1: self reliant. If you're not self reliant and you want

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Speaker 1: freedom from the government, what you're asking for is a

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Speaker 1: bad situation. But if you're responsible, if you make decisions

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Speaker 1: that if everyone acted like you, things would generally go okay,

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Speaker 1: then you don't need the government to step in and

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Speaker 1: say nobody can go to the mall, nobody can go

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Speaker 1: to the store, because logically speaking, the concern about our

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Speaker 1: loved ones, the concern about our neighbor who's sixty five

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Speaker 1: and has diabetes, the concern about people we don't even

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Speaker 1: know but share this country with us should have been

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Speaker 1: enough to encourage a lot of Americans to to really

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Speaker 1: reign in their their behavior. But for better or worse,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it is for the better, but for better

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Speaker 1: or worse. Many Americans tend to be sort of shortsighted

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Speaker 1: and selfish when it comes to things like this. They

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Speaker 1: think about how this affects me and how I feel,

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Speaker 1: without necessarily worrying about the second and third order effects

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Speaker 1: because they're not always easy to see, right. So, I

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Speaker 1: think that the military definitely was better positioned because at

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Speaker 1: the from the very top of the chain of command

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Speaker 1: with Donald Trump all the way down to the very

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Speaker 1: bottom of the chain command with brand new recruits, uh,

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Speaker 1: there is a very clear order of authority and you

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Speaker 1: either do what you're told or you're going to be

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Speaker 1: processed out right. So I really think that the military

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Speaker 1: was better suited to manage this strictly because of that

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Speaker 1: train of command. I think that the United States is

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Speaker 1: at a disadvantage as compared to countries like China or

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Speaker 1: some other countries that are able to kind of enforce

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Speaker 1: the governmental will on the people. But that's part of

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Speaker 1: what's great about the United States. Right, So we need

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Speaker 1: to find a way to get through this without compromising

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Speaker 1: those things that do make us special, those things that

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Speaker 1: do make us great. We've got to find a balance,

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Speaker 1: you know. Speaking of China, let's let's talk about numbers

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Speaker 1: and what do you think about the reporting and information operations.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know that you you're connected to a

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Speaker 1: lot of the same guys that I am, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that we've both heard a

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Speaker 1: lot of things out of China that do not reflect

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Speaker 1: China's general narrative. Right. I also think that China as

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Speaker 1: a whole maintains very strict control over narrative, both within

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Speaker 1: the country and outside it. Right. I obviously I wrote

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Speaker 1: a lot about this for software. China from day one

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Speaker 1: was managing the narrative associated with this coronavirus. Right. They

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Speaker 1: were managing it internally by censuring doctors, but they were

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Speaker 1: managing it externally by making sure that the world didn't

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Speaker 1: see this as quite what it was until it was

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Speaker 1: too late and they couldn't hide it anymore. Right. At

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, we need to think about

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Speaker 1: what China's long term goals are and even though this

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Speaker 1: coronavirus thing I do believe was very much unintentional and

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Speaker 1: and very likely came about naturally. I think that you

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Speaker 1: can absolutely see where they're trying to position themselves to

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Speaker 1: make this bad situation work in their favor. Right as

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Speaker 1: the United States struggles to curb the spread of the coronavirus,

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Speaker 1: and we do so openly, we do so very publicly.

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Speaker 1: America's numbers are not a secret, America's efforts are not

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Speaker 1: a secret, and the popular responses are not a secret.

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Speaker 1: It gives opportunity for us to look as though we're

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Speaker 1: managing this as compared to a nation like China, which,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I think is that

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Speaker 1: our intent when it comes to this perception management campaign,

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Speaker 1: they want to emerge as the global leader. In general,

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Speaker 1: China's general plan for the future is to replace the

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Speaker 1: United States as the coblematic and economic leader of the world.

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Speaker 1: And in order to do that, they also need to

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Speaker 1: expand their military force a great deal, because, as we know,

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Speaker 1: America's military infrastructure supports a great deal of its global

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Speaker 1: economic and diplomatic infrastructure. Right, China, using our post World

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Speaker 1: War two playbook to entice Third World nations with things

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Speaker 1: like the Belt and Road Initiative and other programs that

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Speaker 1: involve large loans two nations that do not necessarily have

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Speaker 1: a great credit history, with the understanding that if these

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Speaker 1: nations default on these debts, China is going to have

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Speaker 1: a great deal of leverage over them, and even if

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Speaker 1: they don't default, having the debt gives China a great

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Speaker 1: deal of leverage over them. China needs to establish foreign

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Speaker 1: ports so that it can resupply its naval vessels. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize even if you have nuclear power,

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Speaker 1: which China's new carriers likely will, you still need resupply

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Speaker 1: and most of your carrier strike group, even for the

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Speaker 1: United States, is a nuclear power, you know you need diesel.

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Speaker 1: Our destroyers do not have nuclear reactors on the China

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Speaker 1: needs friendly ports all around the world so that they

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Speaker 1: can do what we do, which is number one, trade

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Speaker 1: all around the world, but number two leverage your own

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Speaker 1: infrastructure for power over others diplomatically, economically, particularly economically in

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Speaker 1: the South China SEAE. So how does that inform what's

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Speaker 1: going on with the coronavirus. A bad situation happened in China,

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Speaker 1: but because China is able to immediately grab hold of

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Speaker 1: the narrative both internally and externally. They're able to shape

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Speaker 1: this story to benefit them. Now, the United States is

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Speaker 1: not playing by those rules. Right now. The United States is,

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Speaker 1: i would argue, waging a narrative campaign against China. China

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Speaker 1: started it first by hiding information about the coronavirus and

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Speaker 1: then by launching a campaign within their borders aimed at

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Speaker 1: telling the Chinese population that the American army introduced this

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Speaker 1: virus into China. So now the United States is responding.

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Speaker 1: I genuinely don't believe that the COVID nineteen was intentionally

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Speaker 1: released by a bio weapons facility, but the United States

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Speaker 1: and headlines you know today and yesterday, has been saying

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Speaker 1: that they're investigating that possibility. By saying that we're investigating

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Speaker 1: the possibility, we're opening ourselves up to the ability to

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Speaker 1: say it wasn't true. But that doesn't matter today. People

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Speaker 1: remember the headlines less so than the corrections. Right So

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Speaker 1: the United States is actively fighting back in terms of narrative.

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Speaker 1: And this is actually why I would defend Donald Trump's

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Speaker 1: use of the phrase Chinese virus. I know a lot

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Speaker 1: of people want to color that as racial uh and

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Speaker 1: I think Donald Trump may well have UH set precedent

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Speaker 1: for people to to assume that it is race based.

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Speaker 1: But in this instance, the virus very much did come

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Speaker 1: from China, and China genuinely is trying to frame the

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Speaker 1: narrative as though America did it so by saying the

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Speaker 1: Chinese virus, I see that as Donald Trump's perhaps ham

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Speaker 1: fisted attempt at putting the onus back on China where alongs.

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Speaker 1: But do you think that China's information and operations will backfire,

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Speaker 1: especially in the countries that have been affected the most.

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Speaker 1: So let's take for example, Italy, France, that I mean

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Speaker 1: the United States, it's a no brainer. But other countries

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Speaker 1: that do have an important Chapolica role. I think it

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Speaker 1: all comes down to money and China. So China and

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Speaker 1: Russia are both very active in the influence world right

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Speaker 1: and the gray as gray zone right now, for those

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Speaker 1: who may not be familiar with the phrase, gray zone,

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Speaker 1: operations tend to be aggressive acts that fall short of

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Speaker 1: being a catalyst of war. Right, and our gray zone

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Speaker 1: has grown exponentially since the Cold War, the reason being

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Speaker 1: that now that there are nuclear powers in this world,

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Speaker 1: now that we all tend to be more or less

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Speaker 1: economically interdependent. A large scale war between a nation like

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Speaker 1: the United States and a nation like Russia or China

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Speaker 1: would have massive repercussions, right, So because of that, we

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Speaker 1: have reined in what we would consider aggressive enough for

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Speaker 1: US to declare open war. We know Russia has used

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Speaker 1: hackers to infiltrate the national electrical grid. We know that

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Speaker 1: Russia has tried to conduct assassinations on foreign soil and

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Speaker 1: has successfully conducted some. We know that China exerts a

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Speaker 1: great deal of influence over American media. We saw that firsthand,

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Speaker 1: uh earlier this year with you know, maybe last year now,

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Speaker 1: who knows what the coronavirus, but with the NBA. Right,

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Speaker 1: China has a great deal of influence. But where Russia

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Speaker 1: uses force and aggression, China's influence comes disguised as big

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Speaker 1: bags of money. Right. And so I think that while

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Speaker 1: there's a good potential that there will be blowback on

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Speaker 1: China for it's managing of this, I think that what

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Speaker 1: we're going to see is a lot of nations kind

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Speaker 1: of saying let's let bygones be bygones, because we stand

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Speaker 1: to lose too much financially by being critical of China

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Speaker 1: about this in the midst of what very well is

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Speaker 1: going to become a global recession. China is still going

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Speaker 1: to have one of the largest markets in the world.

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Speaker 1: China is still going to have one of the faster

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Speaker 1: developing economies in the world, and people are still going

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Speaker 1: to want access to those markets. So on the national level,

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Speaker 1: I think it's unlikely that we're going to see nations

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Speaker 1: that aren't on very sure economic footing trying to hold

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Speaker 1: China's feet to the fire. I think just they can't

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Speaker 1: afford to. They would be closing themselves off tot of

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Speaker 1: the biggest markets in the world, the other being in

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Speaker 1: the US and UH. For a lot of nations, that's

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Speaker 1: too much to be worth the risk. Although I could

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Speaker 1: be wrong. I like it when i'm wrong because I

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Speaker 1: tend to be an alarmist so hopefully accountable. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's a little unlikely, at least in less financially

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Speaker 1: developed nations. Hi, I'm Brandon Webb, former a sal and

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Speaker 1: Economical Campact. Do you think that the post COVID word

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Speaker 1: would see a US less dependent on manufacturing off in China, So,

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Speaker 1: for example, we would I don't think it's I think

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Speaker 1: it is feasible, but I think that something that a

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Speaker 1: lot of US don't consider a lot in our day

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Speaker 1: to day lives here in the United States, is that

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Speaker 1: our standard of living is not sustainable on a global scale. Right,

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Speaker 1: the United States maintains a very high standard living, as

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Speaker 1: do many European nations, as do certain individuals in China. Right,

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Speaker 1: But ultimately, at the end of the day, we're all

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Speaker 1: effectively tied into a battle over resources. We don't realize it,

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Speaker 1: we don't think about it in our day to day activities,

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Speaker 1: but when you're trying to stretch your paycheck, that very

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Speaker 1: much is you trying to get the most resources you

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Speaker 1: can for what you have on hand. Right, it's the

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Speaker 1: barter system. We've just made it complicated with our overarching

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Speaker 1: economic infrastructure. Right. Because of that, I think that we

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Speaker 1: don't realize the same way a lot of times, we

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Speaker 1: don't realize how undocumented immigrants. Illegal immigrants hold up a

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Speaker 1: huge portion of the American agricultural infrastructure. We don't realize

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Speaker 1: that by getting rid of all the illegal immigrants, orange

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Speaker 1: juice is going to go up by five bucks a

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Speaker 1: gallon the same way, we don't realize that by bringing

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Speaker 1: all of our manufacturing infrastructure back to the United States

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Speaker 1: is going to result and a dramatic increase in cost

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Speaker 1: for the products that we buy, simply because in the

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Speaker 1: US there are laws that force you to treat your

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Speaker 1: employees in a certain way, whereas in China you can

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Speaker 1: get away with a lot worse. So America has a

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Speaker 1: love affair with Chinese goods, from the individual buyer all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the CEO worrying about the bottom

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Speaker 1: line of his fortune, simply because you get more for

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Speaker 1: your dollar. And in the US, we would need to

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Speaker 1: have a really big cultural shift for us to decide

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Speaker 1: as a people that we would rather spend twenty on

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Speaker 1: a T shirt than five to ten dollars on a

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Speaker 1: T shirt in order to ensure that the people who

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Speaker 1: made the T shirt we're paid a living wage, didn't

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Speaker 1: have to live in a labor camp things like that.

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Speaker 1: Right Whereas right now we get these products from China,

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Speaker 1: we do not think at all about where they come from.

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Speaker 1: We just think about the fact that this funny shirt

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Speaker 1: only costs five dollars. Right. We have to be willing.

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Speaker 1: And when I say willing, I don't just mean people

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Speaker 1: like you and I who are fortunate enough that we

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Speaker 1: could probably afford to buy a T shirt. For ten

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Speaker 1: dollars instead of five. But there are some people out

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Speaker 1: there who maybe can't make that decision so readily right,

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Speaker 1: and those people are going to continue to rely on

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Speaker 1: inexpensive goods. They're going to continue to rely on companies

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Speaker 1: that produce in expensive goods and until we shift culturally

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Speaker 1: and economically away from buying stuff from the cheapest bidder,

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Speaker 1: which would have to be a cultural change first in

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Speaker 1: order for it to be viable economically. I think we're

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Speaker 1: going to continue to see a lot of reliance on

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Speaker 1: the Chinese market. But again, this is another one of

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Speaker 1: those things that I'd really like to be wrong about.

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Speaker 1: I I love the idea of everyone's shopping local and

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Speaker 1: supporting small businesses. As we've seen going through all this.

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Speaker 1: You know, fifty of employees in the United States are

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Speaker 1: employed by small businesses companies with fewer than fifty employees.

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Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say you and I both

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Speaker 1: work for companies that fall into that category. Maybe on

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Speaker 1: the CUSP right, So I think that we would need

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Speaker 1: to culturally appreciate why you pay extra when it comes

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Speaker 1: from a factory inside the United States, and we would

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Speaker 1: need to value that culturally as worthwhile in order for

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Speaker 1: us to see the economic shift true world, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about our business journalism. How do you think that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: coronavirus is already affecting negatively the business Military Times, for

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Speaker 1: for example, how to for a lot of its employees.

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Speaker 1: What do you think the post coronavirus journalism more in

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Speaker 1: the States were look like? I think you raise a

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Speaker 1: really important point that a lot of people don't realize.

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Speaker 1: And to talk a little insider baseball, I've had a

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Speaker 1: few people ask me how can how can journalism right

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Speaker 1: now be hurting when people are dying for information? You know?

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Speaker 1: And and the reason is pretty pretty simple. It's that

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Speaker 1: there are only really three effective revenue models for a

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Speaker 1: news business. Right, you can have a paywall where you

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Speaker 1: get money directly from the consumer. Uh. You can sell

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Speaker 1: ad impressions, which is you sell people a number of

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Speaker 1: times that their AD will appear on a page that

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Speaker 1: someone scrolls across. Or you can sell clickthroughs, which is

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Speaker 1: effectively how many times someone clicks on an AD that's

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Speaker 1: on your content. Right, So those are the three primary

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Speaker 1: revenue models, and I think you'll see that a lot

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Speaker 1: of news outlets, both of ours leverage a little bit

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Speaker 1: of one, a little bit of two, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of three. They mix and match a little bit, but ultimately, revenue,

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Speaker 1: if you aren't using a subscription model like a lot

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Speaker 1: of outlets do, revenue is tied to add inventory. Right,

434
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: So if your ad inventory is only for ten tho impressions,

435
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: but you get twenty million views, you only really make

436
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: money off of that ad inventory of ten thou impressions.

437
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: There are ways to go through third party affiliates where

438
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: you'll get maybe thirty cents on the dollar for those

439
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: ad impressions that you can use to leverage if you've

440
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: got less ad inventory than you do exposure. But that's

441
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: the concern that I think we're all going to be

442
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: looking at moving forward. Is the the idea that because

443
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: consumer spending is down across the board, advertising spend is

444
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: going to be down as well. Right, So, if these

445
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: companies are hesitant to buy a ton of ad space

446
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: because they know that they may not necessarily see the

447
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: return on investment because consumers can't go to Best Buy,

448
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: they're going to be more reluctant to shell out a

449
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: ton of money to buy ad inventory. And then you

450
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: run the risk of seeing outlets on military Times is

451
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: a great example that's got a huge reader base that's

452
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: very well established that still found themselves in economic dire

453
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: straits as ad inventory started to sour. I love the

454
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: Military Times. I'm very confident that they're gonna end up

455
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: back on their feet, but they did have to furlow

456
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: some employees to get through this. I think Software and

457
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: Sandbox are both really fortunate that we haven't had to

458
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: make those kinds of hard decisions. But I think our

459
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: industry as a whole is going to shift in part

460
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: on the individual level, because many writers are in the

461
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: gig economy. Most writers are not staff writers, right. They

462
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: don't have one consistent job. They write for multiple outlets. Uh,

463
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: and they get paid by invoice right, Uh, exactly exactly.

464
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: And we're seeing firsthand how those who participate in the

465
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: gig economy, whether you make a hundred bucks for an

466
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: article or you make a hundred bucks this week driving

467
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: for Uber, how crippled. This can very quickly make these

468
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: people who are not only paycheck to paycheck, their invoice

469
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: to invoice, right. So money is not always consistent as

470
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: a freelancer, and you don't always know when you're gonna

471
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: get paid as a freelancer, and when that money dries up,

472
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: you can't just immediately go into file for unemployment. If

473
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: you didn't do your taxes in two thousand eighteen because

474
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: you had sixteen different jobs, because one was Uber, one

475
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: was door Dash, one was writing for Business Insider, and

476
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: one was, uh, you know, writing for your own personal blog.

477
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: And you only made twenty five dollars last year. You

478
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: didn't really want to go hire an accountant for five

479
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: dollars to make sense of that return. And now you're

480
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: not going to get your stimulus check right a two

481
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: thousand eighteen tax return. As a writer, I consider myself

482
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: incredibly fortunate that I've had steady, consistent good employment for years.

483
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: Right A lot of guys are not in such fortunate positions,

484
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: and I think that our industry is going to end

485
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 1: up having to adjust because for every one guy there

486
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: is like you or me, there's five guys and girls

487
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: who are in a really bad place right now. And

488
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: if we want to continue to have good journalism, if

489
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: we genuinely want good coverage, we're going to have to

490
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: pay for it as a people. And it's either going

491
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: to be a new model where people end up having

492
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: to be staffers more often, or it's going to be

493
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: a model that we've seen increasingly where there are very

494
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: few writers per outlet and most freelancers have to find

495
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 1: other employment. I think that would be bad for us.

496
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: I think it would be bad for us to to

497
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: dry up the freelance pool and the gig economy because

498
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: you need multiple professional analytical voices for the media to

499
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: work for the American people. When you cansolidate voices, when

500
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: you've only got maybe a hundred prominent columnists in the

501
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: country instead of ten thousand, you're really doing the nation

502
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: a disservice because perspective is everything. You know. The diversity

503
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: that lancers brank is invaluable. Yeah, yeah, you know, because

504
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: you and I can write every day, but eventually it

505
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: ends up just being our thoughts if we don't have

506
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: outside voices coming in. Right, We're both fortunate to have

507
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: really competent and capable staff writers. But even if you've

508
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: got twenty staff writers under you, eventually people are gonna say, hey,

509
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: I'd really like to hear one more voice. I really

510
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: like to know what a military spouse who lives in

511
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: military housing in Italy feels about the coronavirus and the

512
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: lockdown that's going on in Italy. I say that because

513
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: we published a story recently that was a first person

514
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: account of a military spouse living in quarantine in Italy.

515
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been able to do that without freelancers.

516
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: And uh, we run the risk of losing our freelancers

517
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: to COVID nineteen and I really hope that's not the case.

518
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's gonna be a safe towards

519
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: subscriber model? I mean, there's always there's already the subscriber model.

520
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: But you think we're going to see that, I think

521
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: it's totally possible. I think that this is the subscriber

522
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: model is one of the most sustainable, just because instead

523
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: of getting your money through a third party, you're getting

524
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: your money directly from the consumer. Right that can tie

525
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: your hands and content in some ways, that can free

526
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: your hands and content and others, but ultimately your beholden

527
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: to your stakeholders, which are the subscribers. Right. The backside

528
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: of that coin, however, is that since the Internet's inception,

529
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: we've gotten very accustomed to getting what we want for free.

530
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: A paywall can be a barrier for a lot of

531
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: readers that will make them just go screw it. I'll

532
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: go to CNN because I can get it for free there,

533
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: Or screw it, I'll go to Joe's blog because I'll

534
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: get it for free from him. Now, I think that

535
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: there are enough people out there that are willing to pay.

536
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,239
Speaker 1: It doesn't cost much to subscribe to these outlets, right,

537
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: I think there are enough people out there that are

538
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: willing to pay. But I think as a whole, I

539
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: don't think the entire your market is willing to pay.

540
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: So I think we're always going to see content that's

541
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: free for people who aren't subscribed. I do think that

542
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: we're going to see an uptick, the same way we

543
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: have in YouTube, where people are going to Patreon right

544
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: because it has become inconsistent. I think we will see

545
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: an uptick and subscription services. But I do not think

546
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: we're ever going to see a stop to free content online.

547
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: As long as the ad business is feasible, as long

548
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: as people get mad when they can't get through a paywall,

549
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: you're always gonna see at least a percentage of content

550
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: up for free. I think. So it's good marketing, you know, Yeah,

551
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: let's finish up with soundbooks? Are things over there. I

552
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: know that you've been crossing it. Let's hear from you.

553
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: Thank you. Things are going really really well for anybody

554
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: that I sound like a stranger too. I worked at

555
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: soft Rep as a senior staff writer and a tech

556
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: editor for for years and a couple other websites that

557
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: fall under the soft Rep on Bellow umbrella like Fighters

558
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: Sleep in the load out Room, and I left for

559
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: Sandbox in January of this year to try to build

560
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: something new in the same vein, but very different. You know,

561
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: outlets like soft Rep Military Times, these outlets specialize in

562
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: holding the defense Department accountable right, which is an essential

563
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: service in our nation. However, at Sandbox, we're trying to

564
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: establish almost a good news outlet. We we want the

565
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: world to know that while it's essential, while it's so

566
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: important that we hold leadership's feet to the fire, while

567
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: we speak truth to leadership and whatever form it, maybe

568
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: there's room on this channel for some good news, for

569
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: some reason to to smile and be a little optimistic.

570
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: And that's really what we focus on at Sandbox. Our

571
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: primary demographics are service members, you know, where we're aiming

572
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: for service members and their families because those are the

573
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: people that we directly represent, you know. My staff writers

574
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: are range from military spouses to c I a office,

575
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: but the one thing that they all have in common

576
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: is military service and a passion for those who serve,

577
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: you know. So at Sandbox, our model very much is

578
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: ought to focus on the nobility of service, right. So

579
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: where you might go to someplace like soft rep to

580
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: find out what we're doing wrong and what we should

581
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: be doing or what we can be doing to fix it,

582
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: you can always come by Sandbox News to find out

583
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: what we're doing right, you know. And I want to

584
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: be a page that a lance corporal can go to

585
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: to find out how to get promoted. I want to

586
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: be a page that a lance corporal can send a

587
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: girl he likes to to find out why he matters

588
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: and what he's doing is so important. And we've had

589
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: a lot of success with it, you know. The the

590
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: site started out as a corporate blog run by Nicole Lutz,

591
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: who's our my content manager now and she is awesome

592
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: and really put me in a great position to succeed

593
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: taking over the site so that she could focus on

594
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: some other things. And so we've had growth from Q

595
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: four to Q one this year. So in real numbers.

596
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: That means we went from around three million views to

597
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: around five million views, and which is a huge amount

598
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: of growth and I can't take credit for it. The

599
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: credit goes to the people who are writing the content,

600
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: and the credit goes to you guys who are listening

601
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: right now. And we're like, hey, I've never heard of

602
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: the sandbox news thing before. I'll scope it out. So

603
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: I'm I'm over the moon grateful. We're still small potatoes

604
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: compared to a big outlets like you, for instance, but

605
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: U but we're growing really fast. And I think we're

606
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: growing fast because the world out there knows that there's

607
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: room for some good news too, you know, nice military years. Yeah, yeah,

608
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: you know, we are. We we we do important, hard

609
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: hitting content still, but we try to keep the focus

610
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: on the service member as opposed to the policy. Right. So, well,

611
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: you may have criticisms of the policy or the policy makers,

612
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree that the service members

613
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: are are worth our our devotion and our admiration, you know.

614
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: So by not focusing on the politics, you know, we

615
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: keep politics completely out of sandbox. We're in a political organization,

616
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: and by not focusing on the controversy that comes with

617
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: the politics. It really opens us up to you know.

618
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: I I interviewed Johnny Kim, that Navy seal astronaut doctor.

619
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: Earlier this week. I interviewed Max Martini movie star that

620
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: was in like thirteen hours and stuff like that. And

621
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: the reason why we're able to do these interviews and

622
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: get them out to such a large audience is because

623
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 1: we work hard to make sure that we're inclusive of everybody.

624
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: There's room at Sandbox News regardless of your political affiliation,

625
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: regardless of how you feel about the war in Afghanistan

626
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: or how you feel about the invasion of Iraq, regardless

627
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: of where your biases lie. We're home for you because

628
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: we don't have any And uh, it's it's been fun

629
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: for me to get to do because I've spent years

630
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: kind of focusing on the parts of the world that

631
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: we're on fire. And I prize that I got some

632
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: of my best accomplishments. I would argue r and being

633
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: critical of the system, but I'm really having a lot

634
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: of fun and getting to focus on the bright side

635
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: for a while, you know. Nice, Nice, well, Alex, thanks

636
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: again for joining us. Thank you for having me man,

637
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: And if you don't mind me doing a quick plug.

638
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: Please check out Sandbox with two xes sandbox news dot com.

639
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: That's where you can go straight to our news content,

640
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: or you can go to Sandbox with two xes and

641
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: just click on the news tab. We've got great content from,

642
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: like I said, everybody, from military spouses to Navy seals.

643
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: We try our best to keep you updated and informed,

644
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: but without any sensationalism, without any bias, without any politics.

645
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: Go to software so that you can learn about what's

646
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: going bad and how we can fix it. Go to

647
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: sandbox you can learn about what's going well and how

648
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: we can keep doing it. Just run for offs. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've begun very Quint's told you man, I've been I've

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Speaker 1: been doing the hustle for three months now. Thanks thanks again, Alex,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Guys. Listening to self Rep Radio. New

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Speaker 1: episodes up every Wednesday and Friday. Follow the show on

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Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at self rep Radio