WEBVTT - Adoption 101 w/ Dan Bucatinsky & David Baum (REBROADCAST) 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.240 in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi everyone, and welcome 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.600 back to Katie's Crib. This week, I'm rereleasing one of 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.000 my early interviews back from We'll have a brand new 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:24.040 episode up for you next week. Enjoy the conversation. Bye bye, 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.360 Hi everybody, and welcome back to Katie's Crib. In this episode, 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.280 I'm talking to my dear, dear friend and birthday twin, 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.680 Dan Buka Tinsky. Do you guys remember him? Me played 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:36.960 James Novak. I'm just this scene of this little show 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.879 called Scandal, and in addition to being an actor, Dan 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.040 is a producer, a writer, and an author of the 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.959 book called Does This Baby Make Me Look Straight? After Dan, 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.919 I talked to an adoption attorney, David Boum. David has 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.040 been practicing adoption law for over thirty five years, and 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.600 as an adoptive parent himself, he breaks down everything we 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.600 need to know about the adoption process. So let's get started. 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.800 Sitting with me on my couch right now is literally 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.440 one of my favorite fucking people on the planet by far. 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.360 We are birthday twins. We are birthday twins. We met 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.319 at Scandal, and it was like we had known each 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.080 other since the beginning of time. Ladies and Gentlemen, the one, 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:22.880 the only, Dan Buk and we've never ever, ever acted 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.320 together on the screen in all those years. We never 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.280 got that true one scene, not one scene when we're 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.520 in together, when you came back in a flashback, even 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.160 in an alternative reality. That's because Quinn just didn't exist. 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.200 Gwin didn't exists in the in the world that I 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:44.920 was in the bedroom the entire time, naked with Jeff 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.000 Perry for the most part, like maybe up your but 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.720 I had a couple of true I don't even get 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.880 me started on that, but yeah, yeah, for the most part. Now, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:59.120 I worked with Tony and Bellamine and Josh and Carrie 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:04.840 had ever Darby Folly shot me. So I've worked with 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.800 everybody but you, Darby and Guillarmo actually and nobody on 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.280 the open nobody. Yeah. Well, your work on Scandal is 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.120 literally like the you and Jeff Perry scene is literally 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.480 like probably one of my top three Scandal scenes of 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:19.840 all time. Thank you for saying that you're acting is 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:24.760 incredible and referring to my body that too, that too. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.520 Dan Bugatinski is a father of two adopted children correct 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:34.079 and also wrote a genius book about the experience, Does 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.200 Just Baby Make Me Look Straight? Which is a freaking 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:42.959 amazing title. So, um, I don't know as available on audiobook? Yes, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.200 it's hilarious. Do you do the audio? Wow? I actually 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.639 need to download that. How did you and Don, your 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.560 incredible husband, who I'm also such a fan of, How 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.200 did you guys come to the decision to adopt kids? Well, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.520 you know, we we decided to become parents first, and 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.640 when we did, obviously for two guys that you have 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.639 so few options, it's either surrogacy or adoption. Um. And 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.000 you know, Don had a really strong feeling about not 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.520 wanting to not wanting to go through this surrogacy for 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.440 a bunch of different reasons. I didn't have as strong 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.959 a feeling about wanting that or not wanting that, um. 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.760 But he he had this feeling about not wanting there 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.400 to be some kind of even if it, as it 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.200 turns out, you know, these things really fade away. But 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.600 the feeling at the time had to do with one 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:41.120 person being biologically tied to that child and one of 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.920 them not and how that would be different. And now, 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:48.160 of course both of us have no DNA in common 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.400 with our children and cannot imagine loving them more than 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:57.040 we do without smothering them to death. That's the only 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.200 type of thingle you think, like, how is this gonna work? 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.240 And will I feel uncomfortable? And you're the sperm and 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.840 I'm not the s and I think it had a 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.200 lot of exactly. I think it was this fantasy of 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.040 like when I look in the eyes of my children 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.760 and I see you in there, where will I be? 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.120 Will I disappear? So there's and that's a very completely 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.840 normal and completely understandable feeling. There was this other aspect 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.080 of it, which was we were unbelievably aware he has 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.440 a niece and a nephew who are adopted, And there 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.960 was a huge awareness of the number of children currently 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.679 and babies currently born every day and who are currently 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.800 in the foster system. And it was a desire to 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.400 try to make a home for what is already what 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.120 was already on our planet, as opposed to creating new 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.799 life given the state of the planet that we're in. Um, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:55.279 so you said you already knew adoptive So Don's siblings 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.200 was also an adoptive parents That was probably and helpful 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.719 to have as an inspiration or it was certainly in 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.520 that in the knowledge of that it was it was 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.720 around us. Did you use a public or private agency? Independent? 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.560 Opener closed, like, tell me the specifics of your adoption, 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:14.240 and there are a lot of different ways of doing it. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.880 And the bottom line is adoption is a wonderful thing, 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.479 but you have to do a version of it that 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.080 works for your family. You cannot judge yourself based I think, 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.680 based on the choices that you want to make. You 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.040 have to do make choices that will work for you 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:31.200 as a as a family. And um we worked with 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:35.640 a private lawyer UM in Los Angeles who we had 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.560 been referred to by many people who had used him. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:44.000 And we used a public, you know, nonprofit social services 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.119 agency called called Vista del Mar, which I'm a huge 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.240 I'm on the board of now, but i wasn't at 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.240 the time. And in conjunction, the two things in conjunction 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.640 with each other was like a perfect mix because the 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.000 resources we got from the family services agency, which was 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.040 a social work at it to us a parenting class 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:07.800 that we joined, which is a hilarious story and it 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.960 was so funny because all right, well and that alongside 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.320 with someone who you're paying to basically do the outreach 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.599 to try to match you with a birth mom. Those 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.600 two things in concert with each other. And at California 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:22.919 birth which is a state that allows two men to 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.360 adopt jointly at the same time, because in other states 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.520 one parent has to adopt and then a year later 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.120 the other one can legally be put on. But we 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.479 for many reasons, we wanted the adoption and we wanted 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.600 the birth to happen in Los Angeles, and this was 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.800 a lawyer that was going to facilitate that. But this 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.119 is Delmar was an amazing organization that allowed not only 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.120 social services and a social worker to talk to us, 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.760 but gave that birth mom a resource that she normally 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.040 would never have. And I can't talk more highly about 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.800 the experience of adopting when you're doing open adoption where 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.200 you're gonna meet a birth mom before the baby's born, right, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.160 So just explain quickly like open adoption is like you're 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.839 involved with them, you know the mom you are chosen, 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.960 and then afterwards you can even stay open as far 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.760 as communication. It's completely it is a decision you all 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.080 make together as as a team, and open adoption is 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.200 one and it's called open because you know who the 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.040 birth mother is, she knows who you are. You have 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.760 an open line of communication, and the decision to place 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.760 that child with you is as decision made by her, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.560 whereas many people have this idea of adoption of walking 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:37.120 into an orphanage and pointing to the baby that you 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.320 want and being and carrying it away, which is a 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.600 very hap it's not how it happened. And so a 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.320 closed adoption would be the files are closed. The files 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.320 are closed, like you're told your baby is born and 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.120 it's all through like legal or birth mother does not 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.600 really want any more ties for emotional reasons. She's like, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.640 I'm going to place this child. I don't want them 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.120 to know I want I don't want them to contact me. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.440 This is a decision I want to make. I know 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.320 they're going to be in better hands, but I don't 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:10.160 want to be contacted. And that's just a personal, emotional decision. 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.040 And so close adoption is one where you are given 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.120 access to a new baby and that information is sealed. 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.840 So take me through the process of your adoption, Like, um, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.200 how long was it? What was the process? Like you 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.520 I'm sure going to fill out the most paperwork ever, 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.280 like we had to fill out. I mean, here's the 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.440 most ironic thing, which is when you're not when you 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.239 have a child biologically, you don't need to be fingerprinted, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.960 you don't need a background check, No one does a 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.520 home study. You could literally be living in a nest 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:48.560 with a giant ostrich and no access to child proofing 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.720 at all anywhere, and no outlets to even put child 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.880 proofing on in your giant kness. You're allowed to do so, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.040 and you're allowed to do so because you you adopt 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:03.280 the child. You are literally three visits from social workers, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:09.559 absolute checking to make sure and then background checks, fingerprintings, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.400 and they know yes, but that's they don't really base 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.480 adoption on that as much as well your ability to 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.480 care for the child for sure. But they they really 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.800 screen you, you really and you start to think about 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.559 it and you think, well, I think every parent and 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.040 is it like boy or girl or no. But but 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.440 you do make decisions. You make decisions where you're like, 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.120 all right, we're both white men. It's gonna be enough. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.400 This is the way we thought it will be a 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.160 challenge enough for this child to grow up without a 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.080 mom and with two dads. That on top of that, 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.559 for them to not look like either one of us 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.200 and to feel like an outside or even in how 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.520 they look or feel or what the culture that they 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.000 grew up in or whatever their ethnic ties are, wasn't 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.360 something that we were comfortable with, and we felt like 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.520 to stack the deck in their favor. We would make 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.600 the only obstacle for them as to live with the 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.000 idea that they are coming from the same set up, 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.960 same sex couple. Now, I have family from Argentina and 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.200 I speak Spanish, and so I was really open to, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.600 you know, raising a Latin American kid. We tried everything 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.640 to be able to adopt a Latin American kid, and 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:21.280 then it was it's very closed for religious reason reasons. 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:25.000 The gay community is not open. It's very rare for 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:30.440 a Latin American so far birth mother to choose. To guys, 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.640 what's the most common is sort of what happened to us, 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.080 which is a single mom, take me to that process. 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.880 What happened? Yeah, Basically, you know, when you talk to 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.080 a lawyer, what most of the resources that you give 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.560 to a lawyer in addition to his fee, is he 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.120 spends money for outreach to allow people in this country 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.360 to know if they are pregnant and do not want 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.359 to carry the baby, but they don't want to choose termination, 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.760 that there's another way. And so he you know, advertises 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:03.959 in yellow pages and line they make no. This is 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.760 an attorney that makes it very very easy for someone 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.080 to try to be able to make that choice. And 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:10.640 what he does is he takes all the people on 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.680 his list, all the prospective parents, straight, gay, single marriage, 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.199 all the types, and he will give each birth mother 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.720 three choices. And what we have to present is a 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:27.520 birth mother letter, just one letter is which it's a brochure, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.360 so a whole packet to the life that just so 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.800 you know, this was fifteen years ago. So know that 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.240 now most of the stuff is digital, although there are 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.559 there are people who still to the stay feel like 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.600 you you know, you make no better impression than if 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.000 then real photographs. That to just some you know, digital 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.840 is so easy and so quick, and so that in 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.680 a way anything to give, anything, to give yourself up 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.120 to FedEx them and envelope with a letter that makes 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.000 reference to what your phone call with them was about. 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.360 Believe it, you get you get trained in all of this, 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.439 You get told to this whole process taking guys from 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.880 like the conversations to having adopting a child to win 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.640 she I mean when she was we had one false alarm, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.800 which is all detailed in my book, not to make 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.439 people go out and get it, but there's a very 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.800 detailed story about the first birth mother we were involved 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.200 with and what and how that went down a path 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.160 that didn't feel comfortable for us, so we ended it. 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:28.080 And then on our birthday September, the year before my 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.400 daughter was born, so two thousand four, we got a 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.800 phone call from a birth mom and it was set 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:35.520 up by the lawyer. He's like, she's going to call 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.720 you at this time, and she did, and we were 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.319 both on different extensions and we had a long conversation. 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:45.960 And then from that September, by March, she was already 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.760 three months pregnant. By by March, we were in the 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.800 delivery room with her. So she picked us pretty quickly, 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.280 and she told us that she chose us because she 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:55.800 was a fan of the show Queer Eye for the 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:00.199 Straight Guy. So to this day, every time I run 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.920 into David Collins, who created that show, I'm like, he goes, 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.200 I know, I know you have me to thank for 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.600 your family, because I say to him every time, but 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.920 I always get tiery when I see him. Wow. What 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:14.400 was in your brochure? We have ours was um, let's see, 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.240 it was like six pages, and we showed lots of 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:22.320 photographs us with our dogs, us traveling, us at home. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.560 We described what each of us liked to do. We exaggerated. 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.839 Don may have lied about how much she exercises or 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.360 goes outside. Maybe at the time we did. I may 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.160 have oversold how much tennis I play, um, but for 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.880 all small things. And neither one of us are very religious, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.440 but both of us consider ourselves fairly spiritual people. So 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.600 we mentioned that because we certainly didn't want to close 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.640 ourselves off to someone who was looking for a religious family, 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.920 except that we were clearly not a very religious family, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.640 So if that's what you're looking for, it wasn't going 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.280 to be us. So we we tried to give a 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.520 full picture of who we were as a couple and 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.040 what kind end of home we were hoping to create 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.280 for a family and UM. And the other thing we did, 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.120 which was something that had been told to us. It's 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.120 is really important is you take copious notes when you're 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.040 on the phone with the birth mom, and you ask 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.960 them as many questions as possible about them and their interests. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:17.920 One of the things you don't want to do is 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.680 make someone feel like you hold the key to our 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.640 future as parents. So just tell me what you've been eating, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.280 tell me how much you smoke, tell me if you drank, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.360 tell me, like if they feel like they're on trial. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.200 It's not a great way to start that relationship. And again, 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.800 and the truth is that baby isn't yours until it's 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.240 in your arms and a waiver has been signed. So 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.720 the tense part of it, you can't tell her or 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.280 judge her. However, the pregnancy you can have as many 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.800 thoughts as you want during the process. Our birth mom 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.000 smoked a back a day the whole time, and she 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.640 kept promising me that she would quit the minute the 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.960 baby was born. And she didn't seem to understand that 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:55.800 I didn't want her to quit for her sake. I 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.640 want her to quit for my baby's sake. Did an 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:02.560 intensive screening process of them, of the when you're filling 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.320 out all the paperwork that you are one of these 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.880 couple that is going to be shouted from the rooftop. 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.000 As I said, before, you have to do a bunch 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:15.160 of Uh, you have to do screening, visit steer house, Uh, 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.320 fingerprinting and then fingerprints. Oh yeah, I wasn't kidding a 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.960 background check. You can't sign up and have a you know, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:24.880 I mean maybe you can get a lawyer to help 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.760 you find a baby, but not just makes sense. You 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.760 don't want something to be like And also just also 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.640 to spell another myth is that this this is not 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.560 baby buying. That's illegal in this entire country. You never 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.360 pay a fee to a birth mom to give you 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.520 a baby. You pay her medical expenses and they and 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.320 what usually happens is you put money in escrow with 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.320 the attorney and the birth mom has to submit her 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.680 bills to the attorney and they get paid out of 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.280 that escrow account. But they have to be pregnancy related. 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.280 And why that is it's very very smart because if 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.000 at any point in the future she could prove to 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.480 a judge that there had been money exchanged just for 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.360 the exchange of the baby, she could claim that she 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:08.320 was coerced. So everything has to be documented. And it's 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.200 it really is this unbelievably touching moment when you're chosen 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:17.600 by someone else to be entrusted to become the parent 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.880 of their of their unborn baby, and it's a decision 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.440 that they don't really actually sign off on until after 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.440 the baby has been born. So you're really very tense 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.200 until until that's finished. Because you hear these stories about 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:36.120 moms saying not signing or your stories, and they don't 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.880 they change their mind, say I changed my mind. It 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.680 is one of the list. So how did you prepare 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:46.800 to welcome Eliza? Like emotionally psychologically, how did you? I 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.160 mean it sounds like you were like cautiously optimistic because 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:55.280 you were in the similar ways that any conventional couple 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.040 that where the mom is expecting a baby is you know, 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.320 you know your you know your first three months, or 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:02.840 you don't want to tell anybody because you're like, what 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.639 if something happens, so you don't tell anybody. Well, in 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.560 many ways, we we have that for nine months, although 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:10.840 we found out a three months, so we had that 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.239 for six months. There were so many ways where we 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.280 were like, why are we going to paint an entire 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.760 room and get ourselves this ready and make the birth 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.439 mom feel like she really the only reason we value 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.280 her or care about her is because of this thing. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.000 She's going to give us. We downplay it because, as 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:29.840 I said in my book and I say all the time, 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:36.280 this is one of those rare transactions where the happiest 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.560 day of your life quite possibly could be the saddest 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.879 day in a in a woman's life, and you can't 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.400 not look at that, you can't not be sensitive to that. 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.359 It's like this very strange passing over of caring for 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.159 this woman, this young she was in our birth mom 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.440 was nineteen at the time, so we have a very 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.760 paternal relationship towards her, and you're caring for her and 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.840 wanting her to emotionally trust you. You take me through 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.040 and you got the call that like she was in labor. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:03.919 And as I said before, one of the reasons we 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.440 wanted to have this baby in California is because it's 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.800 California is a state where the fact that the baby 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.520 is born in a hospital in l a allowed both 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.800 of us to be in the delivery room and allowed 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.440 us both to be on the birth certificate. When when when, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.720 which was an amazing thing for us. So you were 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.720 fair when she came out, Yes, as was my friend Mary. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.199 Feel it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. I mean, to 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.680 be in that room and to have that baby. And 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.520 I was petrified by the way you were going to 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.080 faith at the site up to a day before, like 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.760 this is don, Don is so not He didn't look. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:46.520 He didn't did he say to section hen And there's 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.840 a mirror of the ceiling. Oh my god, you cannot 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:51.720 look up. So he just kept his eyes down. I 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:53.800 cut the umbilical quarter or he would have passed out. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:58.119 And and as soon as she was I think, was 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.159 it an appointment, like she had a state scheduled. Yes, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.119 except that with on my first with Eliza, what happens 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.359 is in the last three weeks of the pregnancy, the 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.520 birth mom comes to Los Angeles at least this is 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.600 the way we did it, and she stays in l A. 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.320 We put her up somewhere and she was here with 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.240 her two twins who are a year and a half old. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.600 And we were very much involved in taking care of 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.879 her and her one and a half year old twins 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.800 in preparation for he gave birth. So every visit to 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.679 the O b g y N we did together. Um, 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:31.960 every cigarette break in between those O b g y 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.040 N segments, we were out there with her. We did together, 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.399 nothing like being on the streets of Beverly Hills with 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:43.800 a nine month pregnant woman chugging up just ripping smokes 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.800 and looks on the on the on the faces of 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:51.359 the people walking by were fascinating and she loved every minute. Um. 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.320 But what happened was we were going to the grove. 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:55.920 I was spending the morning with the twins and her, 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:57.240 and we went to the grove and we had a 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.200 smoothie and she after the smoothie, she absolutely sore. To me, 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:05.399 she was going into labor. She was like having unbelievable contractions, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:07.680 or so she thought. And so it was like, oh 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.040 my god, code red and I threw her in the 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.200 car and I was like driving to the hospital and um, 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.720 it's happening. It's happening. And we were looking for someone 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.840 to watch her twins while we were going to the hospital. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.720 Like we were not prepared because the plan was a 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.920 scheduled sea for a week later from that, her mother 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.800 had a ticket to come to Los Angeles to meet us. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.479 That she would have her mom and also help with 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.159 her because it's emotional, and she would fly and she 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.359 would stay for a week and then fly back to 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:41.200 Wisconsin with her, and all that was in the planned. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.639 We did not plan for one week early. And so 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:46.720 there we were in the hospital and we called her 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:48.119 O B G y N and he was like, we 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.280 have to wait for that smoothie to pass through her, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.199 so we can't do this until tonight. But you know 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:58.680 and I don't. But we out came a laza a 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:03.439 week early, and we were not prepared for that, and 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.639 I was in the middle of shooting a pilot and 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.080 so I had to take a couple of days. Like 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.480 you had said, was the nursery So like you guys 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.960 weren't really prepared at home because they were being cautiously 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:16.760 optimistic because and the nursery wasn't painted, There wasn't like cribs. 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.399 And she showed up for the last month. She was like, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.520 are you guys insane? Do you guys not understand what 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.600 you need to do? You have a baby coming, where's 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:26.720 the crib? How come you even painted the baby's room? 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.400 And we realized that it would help her to know 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.560 that you have done some preparation, so very quickly with 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.760