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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

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Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

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Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal, Indeed we do. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if y'all heard, but the whole elon Musk buying

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Speaker 1: to Earth actually happened, spawning terrible takes from every corner

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Speaker 1: of the ideological spectrum, especially for the media. So we'll

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Speaker 1: have the details of the deal. What it might mean.

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Speaker 1: I think it's very up in the air where it

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Speaker 1: will actually mean. But what it might mean, what the

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Speaker 1: takes are and whether or not Trump is going to

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Speaker 1: return to the platform or something that everybody of course

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Speaker 1: had their eyes on. Speaking of Trump, new audio from

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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy revealed that he has been lying about what

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Speaker 1: he said leading up to January sixth, within actually after

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Speaker 1: January sixth, with regards to the present. He was pressed

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Speaker 1: on it by a Fox News reporter multiple times. So

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Speaker 1: we'll play that for you and give you our analysis there. Also,

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Speaker 1: this is from a couple days ago, but we wanted

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Speaker 1: to make sure to bring you this report of NBS.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia actually yelling

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Speaker 1: at Tony Blinken, our Secretary of State. Yeah, freaking out

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Speaker 1: at him. Yeah, meaning right exactly. And so we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk through that what it means ultimately for the

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Speaker 1: Saudi relationship. New reporting about Kamala Harris and who she

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Speaker 1: is seeking counsel from, which is pretty funny, and some

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Speaker 1: very very good news. Steven Donziger, who has been imprisoned

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Speaker 1: and persecuted by Chevron and a corrupt justice system, is

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Speaker 1: officially free. He was released from house arrests. There's a

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Speaker 1: big block party yesterday. We have some exclusive footage of

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Speaker 1: him with our new partner, Jordan Chariton of Status KU.

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Speaker 1: Really excited to take a look at that and talk

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Speaker 1: about what that means as well. Kim Kelly is here,

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Speaker 1: a great friend of the show, incredible labor reporter out

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Speaker 1: with a new book tracking the history of the labor movement,

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Speaker 1: parts of it that you may not know. But let's

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Speaker 1: in fact start with Elon Musk. That's right. Okay, We've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of stuff going on here, so we'll

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Speaker 1: start with the news in general. Let's put this up

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Speaker 1: there on the screen. It came across the wire at

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Speaker 1: three pm yesterday, So there it is. Elon Musk to

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Speaker 1: acquire Twitter. So I'm just going to read here from

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Speaker 1: the official press releases include statements from Elon, from the

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Speaker 1: board of Directors and others. Brett Taylor, who is the

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Speaker 1: independent board chair, said quote, the Twitter board conducted a

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Speaker 1: thoughtful and a comprehensive process to assess Elon's proposal, with

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Speaker 1: a deliberate focus on value certainty financing. The proposed trattransaction

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Speaker 1: will deliver a substantial cash premium. We believe it is

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Speaker 1: the best path forward for Twitter stockholder. So the official

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Speaker 1: Twitter sale price is fifty four dollars and twenty cents

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Speaker 1: a share, meaning that Elon has acquired the company for

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Speaker 1: approximately forty four billion dollars. The transaction terms are actually

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Speaker 1: quite interesting. We have to talk a little bit about it.

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Speaker 1: Musk has secured twenty five point five billion a fully

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Speaker 1: committed debt and margin loan financing and is providing in

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Speaker 1: an additional twenty one billion dollar equity commitment. What he

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Speaker 1: means by that is that Elon's got twenty one billion

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Speaker 1: in cash that he will be wiring the company, and

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Speaker 1: that the rest of it is pulled on on debt financing.

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Speaker 1: The debt financing part is important for the future of Twitter,

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Speaker 1: and I will get to that in a second. So

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Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put then Elon's additional response there,

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Speaker 1: which was included. This is the full quote from Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk as to why exactly he wanted to acquire Twitter

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Speaker 1: in the first place, and what you can see there

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Speaker 1: is that he says free speech is the bedrock of

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Speaker 1: a functioning democracy. Twitter is the digital town square where

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Speaker 1: matters vital to the future of humanity are debated. I

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Speaker 1: also want to make Twitter better than ever by enhancing

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Speaker 1: the product with new features, making the algorithm's open source

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Speaker 1: to increase trust, defeating the spambots, and authenticating all humans.

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Speaker 1: Twitter has tremendous potential. I look forward to working with

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Speaker 1: the company and the community of users to unlock it.

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Speaker 1: Let's put the next one up there on the screen, please,

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Speaker 1: And what you can see is that he says, I

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Speaker 1: hope that may even my worst critics remain on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: because that is what free speech means. Very interesting to me, Crystal,

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Speaker 1: that he's leaning more into the free speech aspect, even

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Speaker 1: though he still certainly has a monumental economic task ahead

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Speaker 1: of him. So he took out twenty two billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in loans, both against his Tesla stock and both against

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Speaker 1: his Tesla stock, and I believe against some of his

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Speaker 1: other holdings. Now why that matters is that what I

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Speaker 1: was reading today, at a four to five percent interest rate,

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Speaker 1: Elon has got to pay back one to two billion

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Speaker 1: dollars per year just in debt in order to make

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Speaker 1: sure that the company doesn't go bust, and he remains

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Speaker 1: on top of that. Now, personally, he can probably make

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Speaker 1: that happen, But if he doesn't want to take a

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Speaker 1: massive bath, that means a couple of things. Well, there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a lot of layoffs at Twitter. I

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Speaker 1: don't see any way that he can be able to

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Speaker 1: run the company. So they have about three hundred to

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Speaker 1: four hundred million dollars in payroll. So right now, paragh Agarwall,

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Speaker 1: the CEO, in a town hall, he's like, look, all

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Speaker 1: of your jobs are safe for a year. You know

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Speaker 1: all of that. So in the immediate term, Elon has

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Speaker 1: got to come up with a serious amount of cash

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Speaker 1: out of this company in order to start paying back

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Speaker 1: some of this loan. Like I said, he could run

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Speaker 1: it like a newspaper and just take a loss on

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Speaker 1: this thing for many years, but that's still a precarious

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Speaker 1: financial position. No person on earth wants to lose literally

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Speaker 1: a billion per year, right, Yeah, fild. On the one hand,

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Speaker 1: him taking the company private, yes, means that he does

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Speaker 1: not have to have that fiduciary responsible of the profit margin,

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Speaker 1: and you know, shareholder interests is the end all be all.

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Speaker 1: That gives him a certain amount of flexibility to pursue

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Speaker 1: to pursue ideological ends that are not directly related to

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Speaker 1: the profit margin. Ye. But what you're pointing out is

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that there isn't any pressure on him

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Speaker 1: financially to ultimately make and keep the product profitable and

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Speaker 1: keep it growing in all of those things. So there

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Speaker 1: are competing interests here. And I also just would say,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's one thing to say, like I'm for

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Speaker 1: free speech and it's the bedrock of democracy. I think

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Speaker 1: everybody should, whether you're like you hate this and you're

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Speaker 1: freaked out about it, or whether you think this is

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Speaker 1: the greatest thing that ever happened, I think everybody should

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Speaker 1: temper their expectations a little bit until we see what

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Speaker 1: he actually does. That's right, And so it's going to

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Speaker 1: take three to six months with this deal to actually close.

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Speaker 1: It's still a lot of p's and queues and all

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Speaker 1: these things that have to be minded and everything has

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Speaker 1: to be crossed and signed and et cetera. And the

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Speaker 1: top two thousand shareholders of Twitter, they are not going

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Speaker 1: to be bought out of a company if they decide

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Speaker 1: to stay. So some of the top executives now in

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Speaker 1: terms of CEO parogog or while here's what he said, quote,

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Speaker 1: let's put it up there on the screen. Twitter has

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Speaker 1: a purpose and irrelevance that impacts the entire world. Deeply

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Speaker 1: proud of our teams and inspired by the work that

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Speaker 1: has never been more important. So some interesting stuff happening

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Speaker 1: in the all hands on Deck meeting that happened yesterday,

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Speaker 1: with details leaking out. The number one concern crystal by

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Speaker 1: Twitter employees is will we continue to be able to

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Speaker 1: work from home? Apparently that was their top one kind

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Speaker 1: of their totally fair Jack Dorsey said that the entire

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Speaker 1: company would be remote work forever. Elon famously is very

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Speaker 1: against remote work, but obviously that's in a car production facility,

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Speaker 1: not really the same. Obviously, Twitter can probably run entirely

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Speaker 1: remotely outside of their server maintenance people, which I believe

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Speaker 1: are currently working in the office, so we don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen on that end. The economics all

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Speaker 1: of this, though, really do point to a precarious position

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Speaker 1: for the business. I mean, they reported just yesterday. Twitter

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Speaker 1: is a company that is not doing particularly well. We've

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Speaker 1: pointed before they've lost I believe eight hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: million dollars of the life cycle as a public company.

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Speaker 1: They have a big problem in terms of being entirely

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Speaker 1: reliant on ad revenue. Jack Dorsey actually put out a

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Speaker 1: very interesting thread yesterday where he really revealed some of

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Speaker 1: the behind the scenes stuff, and here's what he said.

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Speaker 1: He says, the idea and the service is all that

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Speaker 1: matters to me. I will do whatever it takes to

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Speaker 1: protect both. Twitter as a company has always been my

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Speaker 1: sole issue and my biggest regret. It has been owned

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Speaker 1: by Wall Street and the ad model. Taking it back

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Speaker 1: from Wall Street is the correct first step. I agree

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Speaker 1: with him on that. I absolutely agree, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we can say from our personal experience, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people before we launched, we're like, maybe you should take

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Speaker 1: on investors and all this stuff, and we were like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't want to be beholden to somebody.

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Speaker 1: You want to run the you know, let's say we

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Speaker 1: have to burn cash for a couple of months in

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Speaker 1: order to make the product better. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be accountable to anybody else. Yeah, And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: times a million, whenever you're beholden to the public stockholders.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And I think, you know, I think our

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Speaker 1: audience closely follows media and corporate media and different business

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Speaker 1: models there and understands very clearly how we chose a

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Speaker 1: different business model. Because if you rely on an ad

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Speaker 1: driven model. Then ultimately who you're serving is not the audience.

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Speaker 1: You're serving those corporate sponsors. That's what it is. That's

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Speaker 1: what that model is. And so ultimately that's what Twitter

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Speaker 1: and all of these social media platforms, including YouTube, that's

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Speaker 1: what they're really all about, is serving those corporate sponsors,

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Speaker 1: not providing you with a good experience or a platform

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Speaker 1: that is beneficial to democracy or any of those things.

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Speaker 1: So I think he is really correct there when he

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Speaker 1: says that the problem a core problem. One of the

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Speaker 1: core problems has been being owned by Wall Street and

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Speaker 1: the ad model. He also says, and I think this

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Speaker 1: is also really interesting in principle, I don't believe anyone

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Speaker 1: should own or run Twitter. It wants to be a

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Speaker 1: public good at a protocol level, not a company. Solving

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Speaker 1: for the problem of it being a company. However, Elon

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Speaker 1: is the singular solution I trust. I trust his mission

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Speaker 1: to extend the light of consciousness. Elon's goal of creating

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Speaker 1: a platform that is quote maximally trusted and broadly inclusive

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Speaker 1: is the right one. This is also he goes on

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Speaker 1: to say, the current CEO Parogu's goal and why I

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Speaker 1: chose him thank you both for getting the company out

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Speaker 1: of an impossible situation. This is the right path. I

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Speaker 1: believe it with all my heart. Listen. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: remains to be seen whether Elon's words actually match up

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Speaker 1: with his actions. But the other thing that this has

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Speaker 1: sparked us some speculation of whether or not Elon might

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Speaker 1: bring Jack back. Yes, as CEO, because it seems like

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Speaker 1: what Jack hated the most about running the company was

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Speaker 1: dealing with, you know, it being a public company, and

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Speaker 1: dealing with the shareholders and dealing with the board, and

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Speaker 1: so as a private company you do have a little

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Speaker 1: bit more flexibility to treat it as an idea and

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Speaker 1: use your creativity and have goals other than just profit maximization.

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Speaker 1: And so potentially that I mean that certainly is possible

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Speaker 1: that they would go in that direction. Yeah, it's very

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Speaker 1: interesting to me. You know, I was telling you before.

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Speaker 1: I re read Elon musk biography and he sent a

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Speaker 1: very interesting email to SpaceX back in twenty thirteen which

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Speaker 1: really reflects his mindset as to why private companies are better.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to read the entire thing, but I

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Speaker 1: do encourage you guys to go and read it, and

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Speaker 1: what he points to there is that being beholden to

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Speaker 1: the public markets, dealing with the short sellers, dealing with

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Speaker 1: the fact of quarterly quarterly results, and in SpaceX's case,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to go to space That is the definition

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Speaker 1: of a long term business. Guess what doesn't get rewarded

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Speaker 1: by Wall Street? If you have one bad quarter, stock

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Speaker 1: is going to go down. And what he says here

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Speaker 1: is that by going public in regards to SpaceX, it

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Speaker 1: would open itself up to making the wrong strategic moves

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Speaker 1: in just the goal of trying to increase its share price.

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Speaker 1: And whenever your only goal is to increase share price

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Speaker 1: as a public company, which at the end of the

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Speaker 1: day technically is your only fiduciary responsibility, it leads to

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Speaker 1: all sorts of wonky behavior which is actually bad for

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Speaker 1: the company, but also bad for the country. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we point out how many times have we pointed here before?

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Speaker 1: Buying back your own stock as a company makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense if your only goal is to increase

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Speaker 1: share price are price. But if let's say you're Boeing

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Speaker 1: and you know you're the backbone of the American aerospace industry, well, well,

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Speaker 1: now what happens now you have a plane that literally

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Speaker 1: doesn't fly at in the sky and crashes and kills

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Speaker 1: five hundred people because you bought ten billion dollars worth

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Speaker 1: your own stock and did not invest it in R

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Speaker 1: and D. So there's a lot of interesting commentary at

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Speaker 1: a metal level as to why private companies can be

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Speaker 1: very superior to a public company. Yeah, and one thing

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Speaker 1: I like about this whole thing is that it's causing

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Speaker 1: people who may not have considered some of those things

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Speaker 1: before to consider, you know, the downfall of making profit

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Speaker 1: margins and shareholder value, the end all be all of

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Speaker 1: not just your economy, but your entire society. And for

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Speaker 1: a lot of billionaires, the only thing they really care

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Speaker 1: about is the game of making money. Like this has

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Speaker 1: never made sense to me, This idea of like, I'm

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Speaker 1: already a billionaire, but I'm really super dedicated to just

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Speaker 1: keeping continuing to make as much money as possible. But

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Speaker 1: there are people who just like love that game of

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Speaker 1: you know, Wall Street traders, hedge fund guys, private equity dudes. Like,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of folks who just when they're a billionaire,

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Speaker 1: they just want to continue that game of making money.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like it's possible for both Elon and

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Speaker 1: Jack that that's just not the most interesting game for

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Speaker 1: that it's not the thing that ultimately is core to

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Speaker 1: what drives them. And so if that is the case

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Speaker 1: for you, then it makes sense to have a private

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Speaker 1: company where you can have more flexibility to pursue some

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Speaker 1: of the other things that are your ends. In addition

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Speaker 1: to not saying making money is not important to these guys,

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Speaker 1: but in addition to profit maximization, Listen, guys, I think

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Speaker 1: it's always important to say, and I say this every

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Speaker 1: time we talk about Elon, relying on any billionaire to

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Speaker 1: solve the country's problems is a bad idea. And as

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Speaker 1: I said on Twitter, tussling over like which billionaires are

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Speaker 1: going to save or do us is just about the

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Speaker 1: bleakest form of politics I can ultimately imagine in But

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Speaker 1: you know, I think there are some I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: keep the reasons that we should be hopeful about this

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Speaker 1: in mind, because ultimately Twitter is a really consequential platform

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Speaker 1: in terms of our public square and in terms of

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Speaker 1: our topocracy, and if it is run in a somewhat

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Speaker 1: better way with some other goals in mind versus just

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Speaker 1: profit maximization that could ultimately be a good thing for society.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, And like I said, I've had

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Speaker 1: a lot of problems with Elon Musk and you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to this a little bit later in terms

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Speaker 1: of connections with China and some of the other decisions

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Speaker 1: that he's made. But I think also the greatest business

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Speaker 1: lesson of the last twenty years he should never bet

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Speaker 1: against him, and whenever he says he's going to do something,

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Speaker 1: he generally will do it. And I think that that,

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Speaker 1: you know, if he sticks by the reasons why he

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Speaker 1: bought the company, then it will work out. At the

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Speaker 1: same time, we should not forget these real economic realities.

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Speaker 1: The guy owes a billion a year in cash back

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Speaker 1: to the bank. That's a lot of money. And this

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Speaker 1: is the same predicament that has caused many public companies

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Speaker 1: in order to go the wrong way. Elon may be

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Speaker 1: ideologically committed hopefully to ditching the ad model and going

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Speaker 1: direct a subscription, But at the same time, Crystal, how

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Speaker 1: many people are gonna pay for Twitter? Are you? I don't, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I will. Like I value it as

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Speaker 1: a news gathering service. Maybe it would be a business

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Speaker 1: as a business expense, It's possible, right, I think because

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Speaker 1: of what we do, it would probably. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: rely on Twitter so much for surfacing stories for the

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Speaker 1: show and all of that, we would probably pay for it.

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Speaker 1: But we're weirdos. Yeah, that's I think you're right. And

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Speaker 1: let's say I didn't have this job, I honestly don't

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Speaker 1: think I would pay for it. It's honestly, if I

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Speaker 1: didn't have this job, I don't even think I'd be

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, right honestly, So there you go. I mean

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Speaker 1: that matters a lot now. At the same time, though,

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Speaker 1: speaking of people who have this job and who are

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Speaker 1: in the liberal media, these people are freaking out about

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Speaker 1: Elon's acquisition, and specifically about the free speech aspect. As usual,

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Speaker 1: we can count on the one the only, Brian Stelter

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Speaker 1: for having the absolute worst take possible on this in

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Speaker 1: immediate reaction. Let's take a listen. Look, who knows I

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Speaker 1: think that's a that's a that's a an example of

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Speaker 1: a broader question for Twitter, which is, if you if

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Speaker 1: you get invited to something where there are no rules,

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Speaker 1: where there is total freedom everybody, do you actually want

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Speaker 1: to go to that party? Or are you going to

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Speaker 1: decide to stay home? And that's a question for Twitter users.

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Speaker 1: Some Twitter users might love the idea there's going to

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Speaker 1: be absolutely no moderation and no rules at all. Others

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Speaker 1: might not want to be anywhere near that. Am Am

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Speaker 1: I crazy about No, No, you're rid And what happens

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Speaker 1: to the advertising. I mean, if there's no moderation or

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Speaker 1: little moderation to the advertiser stay away, what does that

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Speaker 1: do to the business prospects for Twitter itself? And that's

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Speaker 1: very much that that party sounds like a banger, Crystal.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, there's one thing when I

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Speaker 1: get invited to a party, the first thing I want

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Speaker 1: to know if there are going to be rules in place, right,

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Speaker 1: because otherwise I'm out. I actually like, I genuinely at

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Speaker 1: this point have affection for Brian's Telter because he is

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Speaker 1: trying so hard, Sager. He is trying so hard. He

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Speaker 1: spent time workshopping this whole party analogy thing in his

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Speaker 1: head and never once did it occur to him that

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Speaker 1: actually people do want to go to parties. It's silly

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Speaker 1: to start with, because it's not like Twitter's going to

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Speaker 1: have no rules or that there are you know, no

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Speaker 1: rules already bounding and guiding the limits of free speech.

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Speaker 1: You cannot directly threaten somebody as one, you know example,

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Speaker 1: So it's not like it's going to be completely and

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Speaker 1: crazy and anything, absolutely anything goes. But yeah, the faces

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Speaker 1: around the table, I don't know if you paid attention,

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Speaker 1: they were like ranging from contempt, confusion to just like

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Speaker 1: humoring this poor guy before the other dude actually makes

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Speaker 1: a decent important say. The whole reason that the content

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Speaker 1: moderation is what it is has been to satisfy the advertisers.

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Speaker 1: So if you take that piece out of it, and

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Speaker 1: that's less important, not that it's going to be completely unimportant,

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Speaker 1: but if it's less important and you're actually just trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what is the right and consistent content

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Speaker 1: moderation pill, you're much more likely to come up with

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Speaker 1: something that is beneficial for ever every versus just trying

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Speaker 1: to make it safe for a bunch of squeamish corporate

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Speaker 1: advertisers one hundred percent. And you know you can also

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Speaker 1: keep this with the rest. Also, I love how you

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Speaker 1: put it that way. In Texas, we just say, bless

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Speaker 1: your heart, Brian. Yeah, that's exactly the sentiment. It's a

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Speaker 1: sentiment that you're putting forward. Let's put these up there

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Speaker 1: on the screen. Some hilarious ones from our friend Shu.

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Speaker 1: She says today on Twitter feels like the last evening

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Speaker 1: in a Berlin nightclub at the twilight of Wymart, Germany.

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Speaker 1: My god. Another one. I am frightened by the impact

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Speaker 1: on society and politics of Elon Musk acquires Twitter. He

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Speaker 1: seems to believe on social media anything goes. For democracy

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Speaker 1: to survive, we need more content, content moderation, not less. Another.

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Speaker 1: If Elon Musk has actually purchased his Twitter it could

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Speaker 1: result in World War three and the destruction of our planet.

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Speaker 1: And finally, dear Prague Agerwall, if you're reading this right now,

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Speaker 1: the world needs to know you are stronger, smarter, and

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Speaker 1: more tenacious than Elon Musk. He thinks he can beat you.

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Speaker 1: The free world needs to know he is wrong. Yours

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Speaker 1: truly a lifelong and long verified Twitter user. What a

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Speaker 1: loser using your verified status? It's not that cool, bro,

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Speaker 1: trust me. The Verge also came in with a hilarious take.

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Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. They say,

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Speaker 1: how to deactivate your Twitter account, which is just absolutely incredible.

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Speaker 1: Obviously they're one of those tech hall monitor type outlets. Well,

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Speaker 1: and there are plenty of liberals on Twitter who were like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to I'm quitting Twitter. Actually Sean King

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Speaker 1: actually did it, which, you know, props to Sean K. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for finally a little bit. He had a big following too,

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Speaker 1: so it's a real loss. But yeah, I mean it's listen,

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Speaker 1: there were so many bad tastes all the way around.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you also saw this, but Richard Hanania,

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Speaker 1: who is you know, we've had him on the show before.

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Speaker 1: He's like definitely you know, on the right in terms

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Speaker 1: of his politics and definitely not terrified of you on

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Speaker 1: taking over. He tweeted on something sarcastically oh his like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean like Elon Musk doesn't even have a master.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to trust this man with our democracy?

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Speaker 1: And there were literally thousands of people he thought he

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Speaker 1: was being serial right, and he continued to like in

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Speaker 1: the thread, make it more and more ridiculous, and they

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Speaker 1: still did not get the joke. So you had people

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Speaker 1: who just like you know, couldn't see sarcasm where there

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Speaker 1: was obvious sarcasm. You had clearly, you know, the liberals

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Speaker 1: that were highlighting here completely freaking out, who obviously were

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Speaker 1: so much less concerned when Jeff Bezos bought one of

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Speaker 1: the most significant and important news gathering organizations in the

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Speaker 1: entire country, which he still owns. But that was fine,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, not only was it fine, but if you,

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Speaker 1: like Bernie Sanders, do point out that this could be

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Speaker 1: a problem for democracy, you were roundly mocked, shame, disparaged,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. How dare you attack our news outlets?

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Speaker 1: So there was, you know, there was that reaction. And

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Speaker 1: then I think there's for the segment of the right

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Speaker 1: that has been rightly concerned about elite power and can

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Speaker 1: con that is just completely celebratory about the idea of

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Speaker 1: handing their fate over to a billionaire that they happen

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Speaker 1: to have more affectionate feelings for, which, again, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly not an answer to our bigger problems. Will

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Speaker 1: it potentially be marginally better, Maybe we'll wait and see.

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Speaker 1: But if you're pinning all your hopes on like let's

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Speaker 1: have a different, better billionaire than I don't think you're

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Speaker 1: going to end up ultimately in a good place. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you're right to try and add some substance

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Speaker 1: to this. It's a really interesting poll that Teddy Scheiffer

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00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 1: actually tweeted out over puck News. He does great work.

430
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: By the way, let's put this up there on the screen,

431
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: is that there's a poll here highlighted by Data for

432
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 1: Progress and at Recode. This is in February of twenty

433
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: twenty one. Elon Musk is actually very popular across the board,

434
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: So his favorability and unfavorability for Democrats is fifty two

435
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: twenty two, meaning he has high favorability and pretty unknown

436
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: on favorability amongst Republicans is actually favorability is lower. It's

437
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: forty eight and twenty five. Amongst men it's sixty one

438
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: sixty six twenty one. Women is thirty seven twenty seven.

439
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: Don't really have an opinion, it seems amongst young people

440
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: is very popular fifty four to twenty two and at

441
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: forty five plus at forty eight to twenty five. So

442
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 1: what he says here and I think is really true,

443
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: is the real schism is really not a public opinion

444
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: on Musk between Democrats and Republicans, it's between men and women. Yeah,

445
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: that's right. Really when you point out the favorability, I

446
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: just think it bears repeating that normal people think of

447
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: Elon in the context of Tesla and the context of SpaceX.

448
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: They may have seen some of his antics, but they

449
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: respect him as probably the greatest entrepreneur in the US

450
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: over the last twenty years, and they don't really think

451
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: about him beyond that. Helps. That's the thing. Normal people

452
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: probably just don't think that hard about it. Like I've

453
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: really he's fine, super evolveview on like all of the

454
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 1: things that he's done or said or etc. It is funny. Yeah,

455
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: it was interesting to me that there was basically no

456
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: partisan di vibe whatsoever. It was very very closely matched Democrat, Independent,

457
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 1: and Republican. The big schism was dudes really love them

458
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: Elon Musk comn not so sure. And he does, I mean,

459
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: just as his like public persona, I don't know, there's

460
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: something about him that's like magical to men, you know,

461
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: especially young men under the age of let's say fifty

462
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: or forty or something like that. That is definitely where

463
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: his key demo and his like core superpowers live. Well,

464
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: he's like a teenager in a lot of ways. I mean,

465
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: that's kind of how he behaves. Yeah, I mean he's

466
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: very childlike. If you read his like I said, he

467
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: reads biography, he literally talks about he's like his dream

468
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: was to be a wizard whenever he was a child.

469
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: He had a very tough childhood. To be fair, apparently

470
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: his dad was kind of a psycho, and really I

471
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: didn't treat him very well, him and his brother, and

472
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: put a lot of sure, you should go and read

473
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: the book. He was not treated well. Apparently was very

474
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: emotionally abusive as a father. But really, what to put

475
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: it into him is he was he was a huge nerd.

476
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: I mean, that's really the only thing that comes out

477
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: of it. He was bullied terribly whenever it was in

478
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: high school. It was obsessed with computer games and coding,

479
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 1: and that's why he became the computer scientist that he

480
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: eventually became. But what you learn about him is that

481
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: he's quite an impulsive person. He's a lot like a child.

482
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: He said his dream and now that he's a billionaire,

483
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: is to be as much like a wizard as possible.

484
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 1: Whenever he was interviewed most recently, so I think that's

485
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: why he appeals to like the I mean, look at

486
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: the end of the day that the man did manifest

487
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: several of his actual visions, which is a lot more

488
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: than many people could say in life. So I think

489
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: that you point to an interesting phenomenon there about what

490
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: the actual divide is and probably where it actually cuts ideologically.

491
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: But it just points to the fact that these liberal,

492
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, media folks, the establishment types, are just so

493
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: freaked out because I think at the end of the day,

494
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: they know that their ability to pressure Twitter in order

495
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: to censor exactly as they want is over. And that

496
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: is where the real power that they've had over the

497
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: last several years has come from. Well, they have this

498
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: whole ideology that the way to combat ideas that they

499
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: consider to be bad or dangerous ideas is just to

500
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: shut them out, to censor them, you know, push them

501
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: out of polite society, and that you know, I think

502
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: there's a genuine fear and belief that like, that's the

503
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: way that we can keep this whole thing together. I

504
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: just happened to think that's not only wrong, but extremely

505
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: counterproductive and leads you down the path of ultimately destroying

506
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: the democracy that you think you're trying to protect. And

507
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: so their ideology depends on the ability to you know,

508
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: to have their ideology reinforced and have people who don't

509
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: agree with that pushed out of the public square. So

510
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: I think that's why there's such a free count here

511
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: versus you know what is Jeff Bezos, who is definitely

512
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: not on the left in any meaningful sense but is

513
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: going to be anti Trump, is going to be, you know,

514
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: with them more or less when it comes to social issues.

515
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: They didn't perceive that as a threat, even though you know,

516
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: anyone who's being consistent here should just see that billionaires

517
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: controlling our news, gathering, our public squares is a big

518
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: problem in society, whether you happen to be comfortable with

519
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: that billionaire or not. I saw another poll similar to

520
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: this data for progress Pole that actually was an internal

521
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: poll of Twitter employees. Yeah, because a lot of the

522
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: narrative around Twitter employees is like they're freaking out, Oh

523
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: my god, they hate Elin and they can't you know,

524
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: they were so worried about he's going to destroy Twitter,

525
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And I don't doubt that because,

526
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: like you said, they're likely to be layoffs and they're

527
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: not sure what this means for their stockholdings. And is

528
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: the headquarters are even going to stay in San Francisco

529
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: and are they going to be able to continue to

530
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: work from home. I don't doubt that there are a

531
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: lot of concerns and angst around what it means literally

532
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: for them and their livelihoods in their day to day

533
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: But in terms of sentiment around Elon, this particular poll,

534
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: internally it was completely divided. You had, you know, an

535
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: equal amount that liked him, an equal amount that didn't

536
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: like him, and a group in the middle that was like, ah,

537
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: not sure, we'll see. My guess would be that the

538
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: technologists and the engineers are probably the ones who are

539
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: most excited about him, because they're more familiar with what

540
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: he did a tassel on its SpaceX. And my guess

541
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: would be that the like that lady who went on

542
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan's podcast of a Jay, the head of like

543
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Trust to Safety, is probably freaking out because I hope

544
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: that she gets fired. That's exactly the people. Those are

545
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: the people who are the chief sensors. So the I

546
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: would split the company into, like, the technologists are probably

547
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: excited about Elon, and then the hr industrial diversity, industrial

548
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: complex within the company is the ones who are freaking

549
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: out the most. But look, maybe I'm wrong. No, I

550
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: mean because you could also imagine a scenario where the

551
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 1: people who are involved in content moderation have hated the

552
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: fact that they've been constrained by corporate advertisers and their concerns.

553
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: So who knows what the breakdown is. But I did

554
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,239
Speaker 1: find that interesting that the internal sentiments around him, we're

555
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: we're actually very evenly divided, at least according to this point. Yeah,

556
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: I think a lesson of the show is always as

557
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: things are a lot more complicated than people think. Let's

558
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: go ahead and move on to the final part here,

559
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: or actually the second last part of our Twitter discussion,

560
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: which is Donald Trump. Is he coming back or is

561
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: he not? Well, here's what he has to say. Let's

562
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: put it up there on the screen. Trump says, I'm

563
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: not coming back to Twitter, even if Elon runs it.

564
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: I am fully committed to Truth Social, the platform which

565
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: he has only posted on one time. So here's what

566
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: he said. In a Fox News interview, the former president

567
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: told Fox he will formally join his own truth Social

568
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: over the next seven days. Quote, I'm not going on Twitter.

569
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to stay on truth I hope you on

570
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: buys Twitter because you'll make improvements to it, and he

571
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: is a good man. But I am going to be

572
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: staying on truth. Trump told Fox News he will be

573
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: true thing over the next week. The Trump Media and

574
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: Technology Group has formally launched last month and is finally

575
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: up and running, although Crystal, we don't know yet where

576
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: exactly you stand. Oh I have an update. I got okay,

577
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: oh okay, all right, so where I immediately deleted it

578
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: from my phone, but yes I did. Ultimately they were like,

579
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: verify your phone number. I did it. I sort of

580
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: regret giving the my phone number. That was a little scary,

581
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: but anyway, yeah, so I did that. I got on.

582
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: They started recommending accounts to me, all of which were

583
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: exactly what you expect. They were like, maybe you want

584
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: to follow Don Junior, Yes, maybe I want to follow

585
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it was. It was everything you would ultimately expect.

586
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: I thuree funny for a variety of reasons. First of all,

587
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: maybe the audience could take Actually, James, if you're listening,

588
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: go ahead and post a poll on this. I want

589
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: to see the YouTube audience agrees with me. Will Donald

590
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: Trump and be able to stay off Twitter? Not a

591
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: chance in hell, Crystal. Yeah, this man craves attention more

592
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: than anything on the planet. And also the SPAC, which

593
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: is the holding company for True Social down thirteen percent. Well,

594
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: so that's my question, and I think you could answer

595
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: this better than me. Does he care more about attention

596
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: or money? Because these two things right now are directly

597
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: at odds because what Truth Social has is him. I mean,

598
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: that's basically their whole thing is like, this is the

599
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: platform where you can hear from the president, and you know,

600
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: and we have these different content moderation issues policies, but

601
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: the distance between their policies and Twitter are likely to

602
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: lessen there too, So then the only key advantage they

603
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: have is that this is where you can go to

604
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 1: hear from President Trump. So yeah, if he bails from

605
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: the platform or uses you know, other platforms like Twitter,

606
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,719
Speaker 1: if he goes back to Twitter, then that is major

607
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: financial hit for his own company that he has you know,

608
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: significant significant incentive to juice the price of So those

609
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: two things are at odds. I think he cares more

610
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: about attention. I tend to agree it's flamed out. So

611
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: how many businesses is the man flamed out? Here? Okay?

612
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: Like and he's got enough money, then he'll be fine

613
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: and you know, crashing and burning a business and then

614
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: still blustering about how it was the greatest idea or

615
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: whatever is. Yeah, try to do truth. Stock Strategy knows

616
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: how to do that. Yeah, He's doing it for his

617
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: entire life. So I don't think there is a chance

618
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 1: in hell that Trump actually stays off of Twitter, especially

619
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: if he's gonna run for president again. There's just no

620
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: way to me. I mean, the man, at the end

621
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: of the day loves the attention. I was once in

622
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: the Oval office when I saw him when I was

623
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: interviewing him, and he like took a pause during the

624
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: interview because of course he did in order to like

625
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: draft a tweet by hand and hand it off to

626
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: his staff, which is a hilarious experience in order to

627
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: witness live and in person. But the man, the way

628
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: that he cares about Twitter is unparalleled, because his favorite

629
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: activity would beat a tweet and sit there and watch

630
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: the cable networks respond live. He would love to sit

631
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: there watch his team. There's the biggest TV I've ever seen,

632
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: by the way, sitting in the Oval, and he would

633
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: sit there and watch the chiron change to whatever his

634
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: Trump tweet was, he understood, Yeah, he understood in order

635
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: to make these people dance, in order to make these

636
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: people react to him, And that's what he understood, and

637
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: it was his greatest superpower. Right. So Trump, at the

638
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: end of the day, his commodity is attention. And in

639
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: his commodification of attention, how that's how he won the presidency,

640
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: his manipulation of cable news networks and the billions of

641
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,239
Speaker 1: dollars in free advertising that he basically forced them to

642
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: give him. I don't think there's any chance in hell

643
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: because what's going to happen on truth social Yeah, he'll

644
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: truth or whatever composed truth apparently is how they talk

645
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: to me. So awkward, Rang, I do think it's funny though,

646
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: the Getter and gab and all of these other free

647
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: speech competitors, they're dead basically overnight. I mean, Elon essentially

648
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: pretend like they're happy about it, right, They're like, oh,

649
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: this is great. It's like no, Elon basically just destroyed

650
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: your entire rays on debt trust. So I think you're

651
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: gonna have a real problem about going forward. Yeah, I

652
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: think that in general that it's a good thing in

653
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: order to watch this like cringe industrial complex get destroyed

654
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: of these you know, so called free speech or whatever platforms,

655
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day is what we

656
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: always said. The whole problem for ever these alternatives is

657
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: that network effects exist for a reason and are what

658
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: make the company and the service valuable. The point of

659
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: Twitter is that everybody, mostly if you're engaging in the conversation,

660
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: is on it, so you get to engage with everyone.

661
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: What's the point of a platform if you can't own

662
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: the libs when you're concerned. The funniest part of conservative

663
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: Twitter is dunking on liberals and probably vice versa. For

664
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: I don't spend as much time on lib Twitter, but

665
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure that that's what it looks like over there too.

666
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: That's the that's what gets people going. So, you know,

667
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: I think that Trump will just find no way in

668
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: order to not join Twitter. I ask you, yeah, I mean,

669
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: I tend to agree with you, and even some of

670
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: his aides expressed sure that he'd be able to stay away. Apparently,

671
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: the way he consumes Twitter now is people literally like

672
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: print out tweets for him and bring them to which

673
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: is also hilarious that the most boomer thing I've ever

674
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: heard in my entire life. But you know, ultimately, again,

675
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: there was a lot of panic among liberals about Trump

676
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: being allowed back onto Twitter and what that might mean.

677
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: And listen, you and I have both said it here.

678
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: It's been nice not having him in our lives every

679
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: day and having to listen to his every like insane, idiotic,

680
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: maniacal utterance. But ultimately, has it been good for you

681
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: if you don't want Trump to return to the White House, No,

682
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: it hasn't been good for you, because it has allowed

683
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: people to forget just how obnoxious this man is on

684
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: an every single day basis. That has been a gift

685
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: to him and actually, of all people, someone who recognized

686
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: this and tweeted something about is Joe Scarborough, who said

687
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: the same thing of like, you know, you should, you

688
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: should actually want people to have on display how terrible

689
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: this guy is every single day and be reminded of

690
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: how not fun it was having him in our lives

691
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: and in the Oval office during his time in the presidency.

692
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: So I think it's a good thing, even you know,

693
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: as annoying as it's going to be for us, and

694
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: having to like sort through of what of his tweets

695
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: are worth covering and the majority of which we usually

696
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: just ignore. It's going to be annoying. But ultimately, is

697
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: it better to have someone who was the president of

698
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: the United States and very likely to be the next

699
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: president of the United States to more have more access

700
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: to the way that he's thinking about things so that

701
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: we can all evaluate it. Yeah, Yeah, that's a good thing. Ultimately.

702
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: My view on all of this is I actually have

703
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: respect for American people. I think people can evaluate information.

704
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: I think they can make up their minds. I think

705
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: they can handle and process things, even things that are

706
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: outrageous or even things that are ultimately offensive. And I

707
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: think in a democracy you have to be prepared to

708
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: do those things. That we lose faith in the idea

709
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: that we're a nation of grown ups who can you know,

710
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: live in civic life and handle conspiracy theories or inaccuracies

711
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: or offensive commentary or whatever being thrown at us is

712
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: the moment that we do start to slide towards authoritarianism

713
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: and a police state. So that's why I ultimately think

714
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: these issues matter a whole whole lot to the future

715
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: of the country. Yeah, I think that's really well said. Okay,

716
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: the final thing, and we'll get to here on Twitter.

717
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: I just couldn't resist this. So Bezos is very upset,

718
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: so many layers beyos. Bezos is mad because the attention

719
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: has been drawn away from him and he's been upstaged

720
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: by Elon Musk once again. So he tweets this, let's

721
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen. Interesting question. Did

722
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: the Chinese government just gain a little bit of leverage

723
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: over the town square. He's responding to a tweet from

724
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: Mike Forsyth. He's a very good reporter, actually, and he

725
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: says appropo of something. Tesla's second biggest market is China.

726
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: Chinese battery makers or major suppliers for Tesla evs after

727
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, when China banned Twitter, the government

728
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: there had no leverage over the platform. That may have

729
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: just change. Now here's the thing. I agree with Mike completely.

730
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: As you know, Crystal, I did an entire monologue about

731
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: the problem of Elon Musk connections with the Chinese government,

732
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: his clear subservience to the Chinese regime, and clearly allowing

733
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: the Tesla supply chain to get entirely captured by the

734
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: government if they so choose. I do think it's a

735
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: serious problem. Now is Jeff Bezos the guide to make

736
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: that point. No, absolutely not. He's doing this because he's

737
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: upset that his purchase of The Washington Post has been

738
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: somehow eclipsed. And as Glenn Greenwell pointed out, which I

739
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: also had in the back of my mind when I

740
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: responded to this, put this up there, Amazon was literally

741
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: partnered with the Chinese propaganda arm. They removed negative reviews

742
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: about a book by President shieshingping and disabled comments and

743
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: made sure that only five star reviews were proliferating on

744
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: the platform. But beyond that, we both know this. If

745
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: you talk to American small business owners who sell on

746
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: the Amazon platform, they have a massive problem of Chinese

747
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: counterfeit goods, a huge problem of Chinese companies which go

748
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: on Amazon, which steal ip or pretend to be an

749
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: American brand and then sell people crap products. And then

750
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: those people think that they're getting a legitimate product from

751
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: an American business, and then they leave a one star

752
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: review being like this is garbage, this is not what

753
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: I paid for. And Amazon sellers have complained for over

754
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: a decade at this point that the CEO Bezos and

755
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: the team of Amazon specifically allow it to happen because

756
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: they just don't want to deal with it. They don't

757
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: want to deal with the consequences. They don't have proper

758
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: enforcement mechanisms. So you know, Bezos, just save save your

759
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: bs criticism, And this is what you mean about the

760
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 1: whole like billionaires arguing with each other. It's like, hey,

761
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,479
Speaker 1: maybe both of you are compromised by China and neither

762
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: of you have a leg to stand on. And oh,

763
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: by the way, should I start making that point whenever

764
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: it comes to Bezos's ownership of The Washington Post? Yes?

765
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: I should. Is that gonna be Is that gonna be

766
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: well received by the lyd media who loved this tweet? No? This,

767
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: I mean this is this is the whole thing, right,

768
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: someone tweeted billionaire celeb deathmatch is apparently what Twitter's final for.

769
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: None of these billionaires are people for us to rest

770
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: the hopes for our democracy on. And if you loved

771
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 1: Bezos at the Post and you hate Elon Musk at Twitter,

772
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: I would ask you to evaluate the consistency of that principle.

773
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: And if you are overjoyed and you think Elon Musk

774
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: is the answer to our democracy and you rip Jeff

775
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: Bezos's ownership of the Washington Bos. I would also ask

776
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: you to reevaluate how consistent your principles ultimately are on

777
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: these things. Listen, one billionaire may give you a little

778
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: bit more of what you want in this area. The

779
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: country and the future of this democracy should not depend

780
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: on the whims of any billionaire. I don't care if

781
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: you like Trump or you hate Trump, or you're socially

782
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: liberal or your conservative or your prophery speed or whatever.

783
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: We should not be reliant on the thoughts, feelings, whims

784
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: and stupidity of the billionaire class, period. End of story.

785
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: So this is like, this tweet is exactly why this

786
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 1: whole thing sort of like makes me feel a little

787
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: bit crazy, because I just, you know, the sense that

788
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: you get of the country lining up behind their preferred

789
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: billionaires and like going to bat for the billionaires that

790
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: they think are ideologically aligned with them is an incredibly

791
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: grim place to be, absolutely, Bezos cope and sea man. Indeed, Okay,

792
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: let's give you a little bit of date and update

793
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: on what is going on here with House Majority Leader

794
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy very likely to be the next Speaker of

795
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: the House assuming Dems lose in the mid terms. Which

796
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: seems all but certain. Okay, gunn, But this New York

797
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: Times report up on the screen. There's a new book

798
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: out by Alex Burns and Jonathan Martin, two very good

799
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: and very well sourced reporters, about all kinds of things

800
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: regarding the twenty twenty election. And one of the things

801
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: that they revealed was that, on a phone call with

802
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: House Republicans, actually two separate phone calls with House Republicans,

803
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, you know, derided Trump for his actions on

804
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: January sixth, and even suggested that he should resign. So

805
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: here's a little bit of that report. They say, on

806
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: a phone call with several other top House Republicans on

807
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: January eighth, so two days after the attack, mister McCarthy

808
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: said mister Trump's conduct on January sixth had been quote

809
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: atrocious and totally wrong. He falted the president for quote

810
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: inciting people to attack the capital, saying that mister Trump's

811
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: remarks at a rally on the National Mall that day

812
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: were not right by any shape or any form. On

813
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: a call a couple days later, on January tenth, he

814
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: got even more explicit. Liz Cheney asked him about a

815
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: twenty Fifth Amendment solution, to which he said, that doesn't

816
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: look like that's going to happen, and then she said, well,

817
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: what about do you think there's any chance that he

818
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: would resign? McCarthy said he would tell mister Trump about

819
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: the impeachment resolution. I think this will pass, and it

820
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: would be my recommendation you should resign. So this is

821
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: what he's telling Liz Cheney and other top House Republicans,

822
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: is that listen. I think I'm going to tell him

823
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: to his face or at least by phone, that he

824
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: should resign because impeachment seems like it is headed towards

825
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: him and likely to be successful. He goes on to

826
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: say what he did is unacceptable. Nobody can defend that,

827
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: and nobody should defend it. We can't put up with that,

828
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 1: mister McCarthy said, adding he also can't they take away

829
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: their Twitter accounts away too, So he also suggests that

830
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: Twitter should be censoring House members who were going along

831
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: with all of this as well, which is just kind

832
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: of insult to injury. Of course, McCarthy when he was

833
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: given the chance to respond to all of this, his

834
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: office was like, this is totally fake news, and this

835
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: is totally untrue. Then the audio recording came out and

836
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: guess what, it was not fake news and it was

837
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: not untrue. Let's take a listen to a little bit

838
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: of that. Any chance are you hearing that he might resign?

839
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: Is there anything to think that might happen. I've had

840
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: some few discussions. My gut tells me no. I'm seriously

841
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: thank you for having that conversation with him tonight. I

842
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: have a top to many the days from what I

843
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: know of him. I mean, you guys don't know him too.

844
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: Do you think he'd ever back away? But what what

845
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to do is I'm going to

846
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: call him. This is what I think you all will

847
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: pass the house. I think there's a chance to will

848
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: pass the sin and even when he's gone, and I

849
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of different ramifications for that. Now,

850
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: I haven't had a discussion with the Dems that if

851
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: he did, design would not happen. Now, this is one

852
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: personal feel I have. I do not want to get

853
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: in any conversation about Penn partying. I get. I mean,

854
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: the only discussion I would have with him is that

855
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: I think this will pass, and it would be my

856
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: recommendation you should residing, it would be my recommendation that

857
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: you should resign, and very very clear. His spokesman specifically

858
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: said to the New York Times, quote McCary dorothy never

859
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: said he would call Trump to say that he should resign,

860
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: So he said that verbatim, and then the tape came out.

861
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: I just love this because it's like, dude, just sewn

862
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: up to it. You're like, yeah, in the post January sixth,

863
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: I thought he should resign, and then after it was

864
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: clear that the majority of Republicans were basically cool with

865
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: everything and we're not going to support impeachment, I changed

866
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: my mind. But instead he has to pretend like you

867
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: some raw, raw maga Trump warrior, which even the most

868
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: maga people will tell you that Kevin McCarthy, it's obviously that.

869
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting too how Trump responded, yeah, which

870
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: is kind of clever. I mean, Trump doesn't care what

871
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: is going on in McCarthy's head or his heart. All

872
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: he cares about is if he's going to be completely

873
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: subservient and effectively cuck to him, which it is even

874
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: more of a clear demonstration of that when you clearly

875
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 1: thought initially like this was really bad and the presence

876
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: to blame and he should resign. But then because you're

877
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: too afraid to you know, of it being uncomfortable for

878
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: you politically, you just go with the flow like that

879
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: tells you everything you need to know if you're t

880
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: about Yeah, this guy is never going to stand up

881
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: to me. Ever, he's totally going to fall in line.

882
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: So that's ultimately all he really cares about. And he

883
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: said Trump in an interview, I think it's all a

884
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: big compliment. Frankly, they realized they were wrong, and then

885
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: they supported me. And the they there is both McCarthy

886
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: and McConnell, because they also had some more reporting about McConnell,

887
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 1: and we covered this at the time. You remember he

888
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: made some noises about maybe he would go along with

889
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: impeachment and maybe he would actually try to rally his

890
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: caucus to vote with the Democrats who actually convict Trump

891
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: in the Senate because of his role in inciting the

892
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: events of January sixth. And then, I mean he said

893
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: it very plainly to his colleagues and advisors. He was like, look,

894
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: I didn't get to this position of power by voting

895
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: in a minority of my caucus. So once he saw

896
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: the writing was on the wall. It was like, well,

897
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not going to try. And that's that.

898
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: And that was probably, you know, the biggest opening that

899
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: republic Plicans who wanted to see Trump removed as the

900
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: leader of the party. That's probably the biggest opening they had,

901
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: the one chance they had to really sort of come

902
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: at him and make sure he couldn't run for president anymore.

903
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: And they saw what the writing on the wall with

904
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: was the base, and they completely back down. So the

905
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: last piece of this that is interesting is McCarthy hadn't

906
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: really responded since the you know, they said, oh no,

907
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: he never said that, he never told members that Trump

908
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: should resign or that he'd tell Trump you should resign.

909
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: Then the audio comes out and he literally said exactly that.

910
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: And so even Fox News on McCarthy's little field trip

911
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: to the border, decided to press him on the clear

912
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: lie that he and his team are telling about what

913
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: he had to say. After January sixth. Let's take a

914
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: listen to a Fox News reporter pressing Kevin McCarthy, I

915
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: want to switch gears a little bit because you are

916
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: looking to be speaker again and Republicans win. And to

917
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: that point, you know, it's out there. The New York

918
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: Times has released audio of you where days after January sixth,

919
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: you're on a call with House Republican leadership and you're

920
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: heard on that audio saying that you've quote had an

921
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: with President Trump and that you would tell him to

922
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: his face it would be your belief that he should resign.

923
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: Do you still stand by those comments. Look, I never

924
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 1: told the President to resign. It was a conversation that

925
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: we had about scenarios going forward. But that's not really

926
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: what critical happened fifteen months ago. What's happening is what's

927
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: happening on this border right now. You had said the

928
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: New York Times reporting on it was quote false and wrong.

929
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: Then the tape came out. Did you lie? No, because

930
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: what was brought to me is said that I called

931
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: the president to say that that to resign. I never

932
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: called the president say to resign. He and I have

933
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: a very good relationship as we go through. But what

934
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: really needs to happen here is we're watching what's happening

935
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: in this country. A border that's not secure, inflation continuing

936
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 1: to rise every day, streets that are not safe, parents

937
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: that are being attacked by the Attorney General, saying that

938
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 1: somehow they're terrorists because they want to go to school

939
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: board meetings that all changes Republicans take the majority. Oh man, come,

940
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: he's so funny, and you point out the right thing

941
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: that the spokesman specifically said, Yeah, he never told members

942
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: that Trump should resign. Right, And you see what McCarthy

943
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: tries to do there of saying like, I never told

944
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: Trump that he should resign. Well, we didn't say that. Yeah,

945
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: nobody asked, nobody, nobody said that. They said, you told

946
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: members you would tell Trump you should resign. But ultimately

947
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: he was too big of a coward to actually say

948
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: those words to Trump. So that may be true that

949
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: he never told Trump to resign, but that was never

950
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: what the question was. So typical sleazy, lying, slippery politician.

951
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: And he's not even good at it. Yeah, I know,

952
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: he really is terrible. And Trump would have been like, yeah,

953
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: I said it, or or you would have just come in.

954
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: I never said it. It It was the perfect phone call

955
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: theft Covin I ever had. Right. Yeah, he would either

956
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: just acknowledge it out right or he would just like

957
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: blatantly lie, not try to find this. I said it,

958
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: and then I here's an easier answer. I said it,

959
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: and I realized this was all on attack by the

960
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 1: lamestream Democrats. Boom, I just answered the question, you go, Kevin,

961
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, dude, it's so pathetic the way

962
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: these people really isn't And yeah, you watch that and

963
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: you're like, I can't believe that man is probably going

964
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: to be Speaker of the House. Third in line two,

965
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: heart beats away some meritocracy we have here, guys, and

966
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: not sending their best and brightest. I mean, it really

967
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: is sad. Like I've said it a million times, the

968
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: Democrats deserve to lose, but these people certainly do not

969
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: deserve to win. And we're probably I know, there's a

970
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: lot of GOP triumphalism rightly right now about like we're

971
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: going to take back power, which I'm just almost certain

972
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: that they're going to. They're very likely to win the

973
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: presidency back in twenty twenty four as well. But I

974
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 1: think the era of you know, the political parties sort

975
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: of shifting power back and forth is just going to continue.

976
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: And in fact, there was a new poll that show

977
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: that fifty eight percent of Americans, which is a very

978
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: high number historically, have said they're open to an independent candidate.

979
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: If the choices are Trump or Biden. No one is

980
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: happy with these choices, just like what happened in France,

981
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 1: where people are like not mccron or Lapen. I think

982
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of sentiment around that too, of like,

983
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, we're not happy with the Democrats, but I

984
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: guess we're gonna, you know, go with these guys. But

985
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: nobody's too excited about what they have to offer either. Absolutely. Okay,

986
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: let's move on. This is a very important report here.

987
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: Let's put it up there on the screen, which is

988
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, says how US Saudi relations reached the breaking

989
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: as to why we're naming this show what it is.

990
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: What they point to here is that Saudi Prince MBS

991
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: confronted Jake Sherman, the National Security Advisor of the United States,

992
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: and began yelling at him. And what's very important in

993
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: this report is that Saudi Prince MBS basically said, we

994
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: will never speak about this again now. He was so

995
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: so upset about mister Sullivan that he shouted at him

996
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: and basically said that he would be banishing for him

997
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: from the room, and that the US could forget about

998
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: its request to boost oil production. So that is the

999
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: significant in part of all of this, which is that

1000
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: whenever and also I love the description he was wearing shorts. Yes,

1001
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: his seaside palace already felt was very disrespectful. Of course, right,

1002
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: this is how they This is how they play. This

1003
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: is alpha move. Like I don't even have to get

1004
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: dressed up for you. I'm just going to be here

1005
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: relaxing in my show. I have heard stories about MBS

1006
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: and about the way that he would treat US diplomats,

1007
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: and like he would specifically make them come on his

1008
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: yacht or whatever in the south of France in order

1009
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 1: to show his fake Mona Lisa or his fake Leonardo

1010
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: Andy and pull all of these meetings. This is another

1011
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: story for another time. But I think that the important

1012
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,479
Speaker 1: part is that shouting at him and specifically tying any

1013
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: criticism on the Jamal Kushogi killing to US oil production

1014
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: just shows the Saudis demand total subservience from the Americans.

1015
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: We are supposed to do anything that they want. Oh,

1016
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: they want our weapons, give it to them. Don't say

1017
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 1: a damn thing about Yemen. If you talk about Yemen,

1018
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: You're done. This is one of those things which is

1019
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: an absolute red line for them, Oh you want to

1020
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: talk about Jamal kashoge. Oh it's over. We are never

1021
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: going to have this discussion and you can forget about it.

1022
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: And it's a problem because they have the basically one

1023
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,439
Speaker 1: of the only OPEC nations that are able in order

1024
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: to immediately spin up production. Because we've talked about here.

1025
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: America is a major, you know, oil producing nation in

1026
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: its own right, but our infrastructure is not such that

1027
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: it would take six to nine months in order to

1028
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: make sure that we want to. The Saudiast could pump

1029
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: more tomorrow. That can complete control over this history, and

1030
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: they have total control over the industry, and they've even

1031
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: said they're like, oh yeah, we can do it. Well,

1032
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: we're not going to They've agreed to a quote modest increase.

1033
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: And you can just see the economic effect that this

1034
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 1: is having on all Americans. Let's put this up there.

1035
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: I had this cut from the triple a gas price

1036
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: national average, I mean the national average of gas as

1037
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: we cut this was four dollars and twelve cents a gallon.

1038
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: That's a lot of money. Okay, it's not four fifty

1039
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: four thirty like it was a couple of months ago.

1040
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: So that Yeah, the hot the all time high recorded

1041
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: was four dollars and thirty three cents a gallon, which

1042
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: was last month. But I mean it's only dropped by

1043
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: twenty cents. That's still an enormous tax on the average American.

1044
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: In California, crystal the average price is five dollars and

1045
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: sixty eight cents a gallon. I mean, the lowest prices

1046
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: are in the three seventies three sixties in the south

1047
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: and in the Southwest, but here also in the DMV.

1048
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,919
Speaker 1: I get lucky if I get four dollars twelve cents

1049
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: a gallon, which is the national average. I mean, that

1050
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: is an immense amount of money that Americans are outlaying

1051
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: every week to these oil companies. And because specifically of

1052
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: the Saudis. Yeah, although the truth is at this point

1053
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: it has there was a time when I had a

1054
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: lot to do with the Saudis, withholding production and basically

1055
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: serving you know, as Russian that's what the Russians want

1056
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: them to do. And there were all these little like

1057
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 1: diplomatic slights of the White House was trying to line

1058
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: up a phone call with Nbas. They kept pushing them off.

1059
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: Ultimately they cancel and then the very next day is

1060
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: taking a call with Putin. So there's all kinds of

1061
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that's ultimately going on here. You know,

1062
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: oil prices per barrel have dropped a lot, not thanks

1063
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: to anything that Biden or anyone else has done, but

1064
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 1: because of the new lockdowns in China, you know, curbing

1065
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 1: demands significantly. And as we covered here before on this show,

1066
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,240
Speaker 1: the sad fact of the matter is that when oil

1067
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: prices by the barrel go up, gas prices skyrocket immediately,

1068
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: but when they go down again, it takes a long

1069
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: time for them to come back down because all of

1070
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: the like gas station operators are trying to make what

1071
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: they can and benefit from the distance between what they're

1072
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: paying for oil and what they can charge you at

1073
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: the pump. So I just want to be clear, there's

1074
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: like a complex picture of why gas prices continue to

1075
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 1: be high right now. But the more important point here

1076
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: about the Saudis is listen, I want to see our

1077
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: country have good relations around the world period, even with

1078
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 1: regimes that I don't particularly care for, and that definitely

1079
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: includes the Saudi regime, which has been extraordinarily nefarious, which

1080
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 1: you know, the war in Yemen has been a moral

1081
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: atrocity that we have been completely complicit in. However, in

1082
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: the while, in the micro it has caused some pain

1083
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: at the pump for American consumers that I do not

1084
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 1: want to diminish. In the macro us having a more

1085
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: arms light distance from Saudi Arabia is a good thing.

1086
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: And you know, it's interesting what it happened over because

1087
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: you had progressives who were kind of out on their

1088
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: own making the kit and some other civil libertarians who

1089
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: I want to give credit to exactly, who were kind

1090
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 1: of out on their own with regards to the Yemen

1091
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: War and trying to take a stand there. And then

1092
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: it was once the Jamal Kashogi killing happened that really

1093
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: started to galvanize public opinion and bipartisan sentiment, including with

1094
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: mainstream Democrats against the Saudi regime. And that really did

1095
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: serve as a kind of a tipping point. So it's

1096
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: revealing here that it was those comments from Jake Sullivan

1097
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 1: bringing up Kashogi that causes MBS to totally freak out

1098
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: and scream at him because you know, it's look, it

1099
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: was horrific what they did to Kushogi. But that's only

1100
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,439
Speaker 1: one of many abuses that we should be concerned about.

1101
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: They do it every day from the Saudi government. But

1102
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: that was the thing that really sort of turned American

1103
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: public opinion and elite political opinion and caused them to

1104
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: question what this relationship with Saudi was ultimately like. So

1105
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,720
Speaker 1: I do think that that was kind of a pivot

1106
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: point in this relationship. Yeah, and we shouldn't dismiss this

1107
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: side of let's put this up there from Bloomberg rising

1108
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: oil prices. This is just from yesterday. They are a

1109
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: boon to the Saudi economy. I mean, they are making

1110
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: bank in a way that they have not made in

1111
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: a long time. The IMF set its estimate for the

1112
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: country's economic growth is going up by three percentage points

1113
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: to seven point six percent. That's China level growth for

1114
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: a country that produces and does nothing but pump oil.

1115
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: That's a pretty amazing. Yeah. Despite all of their propaganda

1116
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 1: about all their other fake business that they have, they're

1117
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: an oil country and they'll continue to be an oil

1118
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: country until the day that it ran out. And the

1119
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: reason it matters is because they don't have a whole

1120
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: lot of incentive here. The only reason that they would

1121
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: do so is through some sort of diplomatic diplomatic agreement

1122
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: with the United States in order to drop oil. And

1123
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 1: they know that they have US over a barrel. And

1124
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: what's worse is that they have great relationship with Jared Kushner. Yeah,

1125
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: because they are banking that a return from the Kushner

1126
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: and Trump regime would make it so that it would

1127
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: be great for them. They're like, this is the real

1128
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: foreign interference that people should be talking perc Ken. Clippenstein's

1129
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: been saying that for a while too, by the way,

1130
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 1: which is absolutely foreign interference. Same thing whenever China would

1131
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: do the you know, spot they'd try and raise spot

1132
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: prices for agricultural goods in the Midwest ahead of the

1133
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: election because they're upset about tariffs. These are the types

1134
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: of foreign interference with the country the media never wants

1135
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: to actually talk about, but has very real political ramifications

1136
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: here in the US. We should all just be aware.

1137
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: Look like, no matter how what you think, I don't

1138
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: want to be screwed with by the people who are

1139
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: probably more responsible for nine to eleven than anybody but

1140
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden And you know, it's disgusting that we've

1141
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: been kissing their ass for the last twenty years. And

1142
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: allowing all of this Saudi cash swimming around in our country,

1143
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: even the Twitter deal. We talked about that with Elon

1144
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: going against the Kingdom Holding Company. I mean, by the way,

1145
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm aware that the Kingdom Holding Company does not actually

1146
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: tied to the Kingdom, But if you think that that

1147
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: prince isn't directly subject to the whims of MBS, given

1148
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: that he was literally imprisoned by NBS, then you're an idiot.

1149
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: And I just think that we should not allow the

1150
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: Saudi royal family members or rich people to throw any

1151
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: weight around in this country whatsoever. And this ties to

1152
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: my conversations around nuclear and all of that and why

1153
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: exactly that's necessary. But you can just look at this

1154
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: and it's really gross that they are printing money hand

1155
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: over fists. They're screwing with us, and we continue to

1156
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: sell them weapons and give them preferential treatment in the

1157
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: diplomatic world. They don't deserve it. Screw them, Yes, so

1158
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: we should say That's a part of the Biden administration

1159
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: that's been really pathetic is even after some of these

1160
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: displays of contempt, they still are doing what they want

1161
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: them to do, thinking that like, oh, well, maybe if

1162
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: we appease them a little bit more and give them

1163
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: what they want, then they'll lessen their hostile posture. This

1164
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal report that we started this block with

1165
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: admits that the administration they aren't even bothering to ask

1166
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: anymore for them to lift production because they've just given

1167
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: up on it ultimately being a possibility. That's how you know,

1168
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: that's how intransigent, ultimately and arrogant I think the Saudi

1169
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: regime is at this point. Speaking of Argan, let's talk

1170
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: about Kamala Harris. Okay, this is another Alex Thompson find.

1171
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: We have a love relying on the reporting in this

1172
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: new book a lot this show. So go ahead and

1173
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: put this first piece up on the screen. His tweet. So, Apparently,

1174
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: as Kamala Harris was trying to re gain her footing

1175
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: within the administration serving as Vice President, some of the

1176
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: people beyond her inner circle that she sought counsel from

1177
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: include rom Emmanuel now Biden's ambassador to Japan, Gross and

1178
00:58:54,200 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: MSNBC's Joe Scarborough. There are some other details here in

1179
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: this piece that he links to. It says that the

1180
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: book details Vice presid Kamala Harris is quote unsettled place

1181
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: in the administration, as other Democrats are already eyeing the

1182
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four race if Biden declines to run. They

1183
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: talk specifically about Pete Buddhacheg, who they describe as a

1184
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: favorite of wealthy donors who wanted an alternative to Harris

1185
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty four or beyond, and several major governors

1186
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:28,439
Speaker 1: who had battled Trump, including Phil Murphy. Is that New Jersey, Yeah,

1187
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: New Jersey, the guy who just barely got reelected in

1188
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: New Jersey, So that dude, Jamie Pritzker, who's like billionaire

1189
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: Chicago guy. And Roy Cooper who no one has ever

1190
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: heard of but is the governor of North Carolina. They

1191
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: are also apparently making the rounds of Democratic contributors, so

1192
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: very likely or very possible. They're sort of, you know,

1193
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: positioning themselves to make the case that they should be

1194
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: the Democratic nominee if Biden ultimately doesn't run. And then

1195
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: they talk about how Harris is looking for advice beyond

1196
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: her inner circle and going for the you know, outsider's

1197
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: council of Rama Manuel and Joe Scarborough, which is just

1198
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: pretty pathetic. Yeah, I just, you know, it's just interesting

1199
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: to think in the context of how much she's melting down,

1200
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: and she reaches for the worst possible advice. This is

1201
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: why I've said, I mean, the thing I'm probably most

1202
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: scared of is Joe Biden dying before his term is up,

1203
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: because I cannot imagine a world where this woman is

1204
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: president has a terrible pair judgment. Look at the people

1205
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: who she listens to, Joe Scarborough and Ram Emmanuel if

1206
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: you you know, look, I have a lot of Christians

1207
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: with the Bide administration in Ukraine, we are going to

1208
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: be in a full blown nuclear war if that woman

1209
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: ever becomes sits in the Oval office, and even the

1210
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 1: way that she runs her staff is an embarrassment. Put

1211
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: us up there, which is just now her chief of

1212
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: staff is leading the administration and reportedly some of the

1213
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: stuff that she had asked her chief to do is

1214
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: completely insane. I mean, she dispatched a member of her

1215
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: staff to the White House because she was upset. We

1216
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: talked about this before that. People were not standing whenever

1217
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: she entered the room because she's the vice president. People

1218
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: who were in the President's staff and the President's staff,

1219
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: like ron Klain and them, were like, are you seriously

1220
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: bugging me with this? Shit, when we have to deal

1221
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: with vaccine distribution. This was like January of twenty twenty one,

1222
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: right when they come into the office. It's the first

1223
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: hundred days. This is what And you're worried about about

1224
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: her magazine picture wasn't the most full magazine picture. Once again,

1225
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: the White House was like, we don't have time to

1226
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: worry about your bs Kamala. I mean, she's a complete egomaniac.

1227
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: And she doesn't have any Norse star either. I mean,

1228
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: it just it's very clear and this was this has

1229
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: been clear, which is why it's like, why did you

1230
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: ever pick her in the first place. You kind of

1231
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: get what you deserve, but she has no guiding principles.

1232
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: It's just all about trying to figure out what the

1233
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 1: right answer is. You know, what is it that the

1234
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: press wants to hear, the media wants to hear, the

1235
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: liberals want to hear, or you know what's going to

1236
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: be I mean, it's really all comes back to what

1237
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: is going to be the most beneficial posture for me personally.

1238
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: And that's just first of all, it's no way to

1239
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: earn respect from anyone, not from the public certainly, but

1240
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: not even from the people who are working with you

1241
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: in this administration, and it's going to leave you a drift,

1242
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: buffeted around looking for advice from the likes of you know,

1243
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: Joe Scarborough and ram Emmanuel. Ramamanuel is one of the

1244
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: most odious people to ever operate in Washington and was

1245
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: incredibly damaging ultimately to the Democratic Party. So there was

1246
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: another piece of this that is kind of interesting. Well,

1247
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: first of all, with regard to Floornoy, chief of staff,

1248
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: this is far from the first. I mean, she's had

1249
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: many high profile departures from her team at this point.

1250
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: This is another consistent theme throughout Kamala's career is that

1251
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 1: her staffs are always unsettled, unhappy, riven by infighting and factionalism.

1252
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: And you know, somebody called it like every day is

1253
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: kind of managed chaos. There was some reporting before this

1254
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: happened that some staff were actually blaming Floornoy for some

1255
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: of the problems in the office, that she's super insular,

1256
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: that she was very I guess gruffin abrasive and wasn't

1257
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: listening to the ideas of everybody on the team. I

1258
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: have no idea whether that's the case or not, but

1259
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: I think it becomes very clear when you have these

1260
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: same problems in every organization that Kamala Harris has run.

1261
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: Certainly some of it comes back to the top, the

1262
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: person who was running the show, who was picking the staff,

1263
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: who was setting the tone in the culture for the

1264
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: whole team. The last piece of this that is interesting

1265
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: is we kind of knew this a little bit, but

1266
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: we're getting some more details about Joe Biden's wife, Jill

1267
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: did not want Kamala Harris on the ticket whatsoever. Let's

1268
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: go ahead and put this insider report up there on

1269
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: the screen. She reportedly said, there are millions of people

1270
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: in the United States. Why do we have to choose

1271
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: the one who attacked Joe. She had also previously, i

1272
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember this had come out before,

1273
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: told supporters on a conference call that Harris should go

1274
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: f herself for attacking her husband. So ultimately, her consent

1275
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: was less about you know, Kamala's yeah, politics or capabilities

1276
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: or anything, but she's just sticking up for her family

1277
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: and for her husband in what was a fair attack

1278
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: on Joe, but also was clearly very premeditated and not

1279
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: backed by any principle. Because you'll remember, after Kamala did

1280
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: her whole like that little girl was me and I,

1281
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: you know, against Biden's position on bussing. When she was

1282
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: pressed on it turned out she had the same position

1283
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: as him on bussing. So it was clearly very disingenuous,

1284
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: like very scripted. I remember the Instagram post, the T

1285
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: shirts made all of that very scripted and premeditated attack

1286
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: on him. But I also think it's interesting because I

1287
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 1: was thinking back Sager too. Remember Jill Biden at the DNC.

1288
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 1: She gave one of the better speeches, one of the

1289
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: more relatable speeches that really sort of you know, touched

1290
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: on issues that people I think genuinely cared about. She

1291
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: delivered in a very authentic way, and so perhaps they

1292
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: should be listening to Jill, who seems to have a

1293
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: little bit more of a finger on a pulse outside

1294
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: of the White House and insular DC circles, then on

1295
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: some of the other folks on their team in particular,

1296
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: apparently the person who really made the case for Harris

1297
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: Harris was Ron Klaine, who was hailed as this like

1298
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: genius and a progressive ally and all of this. He

1299
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: told Jill that choosing Harris will show people that you

1300
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 1: are magnanimous and forgiving. I guess he said that to

1301
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: Joe and it will show the country just what a

1302
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: unifying leader you can be, which is not I mean, yeah, right,

1303
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: And ultimately, like you should choose a vice president because

1304
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 1: you're you think they're up to the job of being president,

1305
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: because they have a you know, shared vision and values

1306
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: for the country, and you think they're like ready to

1307
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: step up to the plate instead of some vague idea

1308
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: of like, oh, this will show that you're magnanimous. So anyway,

1309
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: it hasn't worked out that well, Yes, it's very strange.

1310
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: It just shows ridiculous kind of thinking on their part.

1311
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: And you know, and just in general with her, she's

1312
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: such a disaster. And I also blame Biden on this part.

1313
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, you're eighty years old, Like you should

1314
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: have picked somebody if you thought you were going to win,

1315
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:09,919
Speaker 1: you who you really thought was up to the job.

1316
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: And we have no evidence to point to that. And

1317
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: I think that all you put all these things together,

1318
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: staff turmoil, relying on bad advice like Scarborough in order

1319
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: to guide your decision making, having no real principles or

1320
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: north star. She would be one of the worst presidents

1321
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: to ever hold that would be Andrew Johnson territory if

1322
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: she assumed the office. So it's terrifying in order to

1323
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: see how she conducts herself in a lot of the

1324
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: behind the scenes right well, because listen, you all know

1325
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: we got all kinds of issues with Joe Biden, but

1326
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: when it came to Afghanistan, and I think also uncertain

1327
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: issues when it's come to Ukraine, he has resisted the

1328
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 1: bullying and the leaks against him and all of the

1329
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 1: tools and the tricks that the deep State uses to

1330
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: try to compel you in a more hawkish direction. Very

1331
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: clearly on Afghanistan. That is the case. That's only possible

1332
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: if you actually have, like a principle, some sort of

1333
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: belief that you're willing to commit to. And that's why

1334
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: someone like Kamala Harrison that position is ultimately very dangerous.

1335
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 1: And we saw this with Trump too. Regardless of whatever

1336
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: he said and told people his values and principles were,

1337
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: he doesn't really care and that made him very susceptible

1338
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,919
Speaker 1: to manipulation from the people who are around him, who

1339
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: were either ideological or self interested actors or whatever the

1340
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 1: deep State ultimately wanted him to do. And so that's

1341
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: why someone who is completely rudderless, like Kamala or like

1342
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: mayor Pete and these other people. That's why they ultimately

1343
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 1: are so dangerous, because they'll just be buffeted by the

1344
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: wins of these really malicious, nefarious, self interested actors here

1345
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: in DC. And that's the worst possible place you can

1346
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 1: end up in, exactly right. Okay, guys, we do have

1347
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: some good news that we wanted to get to you today.

1348
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: Steven Donziger, who has been now for years under house

1349
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: arrest for the crime of standing up for the indigenous

1350
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 1: people of Ecuador against the giant oil company of Chevron,

1351
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: he has finally, at long last, been released. Let's put

1352
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: this tweet up on the screen. This happened yesterday. Makes

1353
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: me so happy to see him out there on the street.

1354
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,799
Speaker 1: Lovely picture of him there holding up his release papers.

1355
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: He says, breaking it is over, just left with release

1356
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: papers in hand. Completely unjust that I spent even one

1357
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 1: day in this Kafka esque situation not looking back onward.

1358
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: And I think he sums it up perfectly well right there.

1359
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 1: Just so everybody, you know, if you guys haven't been

1360
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: following this case really close, it really does matter and

1361
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: expose the way that Chevron was able to use their

1362
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: money and influence in the judiciary to effectively like really

1363
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: criminalize this man and villainize him for just actually winning

1364
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: a court case against them for their poisoning of indigenous

1365
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: equadorial lands. So Donziger is starting a substack and he

1366
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: wrote a little bit about his experience side. I just

1367
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: want to read this so people have kind of the

1368
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 1: general gist of what happened here. He says that Chevron

1369
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: and this judge that was kind of allied with them

1370
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 1: coordinated to charge me with criminal contempt of court and

1371
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: lock me up for almost three years at home and

1372
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 1: in prison. He was actually sent to a federal prison

1373
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 1: for a time after an unprecedented criminal prosecution by a

1374
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: private Chevron law firm. Chevron and that judge claimed I

1375
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: committed a crime by appealing a civil discovery order that

1376
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 1: I turn over my computer and cell phone to Chevron.

1377
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 1: These devices contained reams of confidential attorney client protected communication

1378
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 1: that I was ethically obligated to protect. Such an order,

1379
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: violating the attorney client privilege in a civil discovery context

1380
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: was unprecedented. Lawyers in rule of law countries do not

1381
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: share their confidential case files with opposing counsel. He goes

1382
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: on to say it was subterfuge designed by Chevron and

1383
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 1: the judge to force me to choose between complying with

1384
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: my ethical duties to my clients or complying with a

1385
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: court order under threat of contempt. I am, and I

1386
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: think this is really important to remember the first lawyer

1387
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: in US history ever charged with a crime for appealing

1388
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: a civil discovery order. The case seemed orchestrated to retaliate

1389
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: against me for helping win the pollution judgment against Chevron

1390
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 1: in Ecuador. The federal prosecutor in New York refused to

1391
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: accept Caplan's charges. So that's sort of the meat of

1392
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 1: what happened to him. Ultimately, it is wonderful to see

1393
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: him free. It is insane that he ever spent a

1394
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: single day under house arrest or in prison. And I

1395
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: want to say that, you know, I hope you all

1396
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: support him or consider supporting him as he moves into

1397
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: his new chapter. He wants to get back to his

1398
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: roots of journalism, actually, which is something that I think,

1399
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, he certainly has the courage and the perseverance

1400
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: in the dogget determination and the completely Unboughten on gun

1401
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,879
Speaker 1: bust mentality to be very effective at started a subtext,

1402
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 1: so we'll put the link in the description. And in addition,

1403
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: we announced yesterday we have a new partnership with Status

1404
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: Coup and Jordan Chariton, who's going to be providing with

1405
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 1: us with exclusive footage. Yesterday we showed you some of

1406
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 1: his exclusive footage interviews with workers at Amazon. Today we

1407
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: have some footage for you from Jordan Sheridan on the

1408
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:11,679
Speaker 1: ground at a block party to celebrate Stephen Donziger's release.

1409
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: Let's take a look at that. Stephen donzig or a

1410
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 1: free man. That's my first question, I mean, basic, how

1411
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: do you feel. I feel exhilarated. I mean, I just

1412
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: can't believe it's over, at least this phase. You know.

1413
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: It's a mixture of excitement, frankly, exhaustion. I've been up,

1414
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: like in the middle of the night for several nights running,

1415
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: mostly because the prison system just kept calling me, you know,

1416
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 1: and making me do these check ins from home that

1417
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 1: are just insane. So I'm glad I don't have to

1418
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 1: deal with phone calls anymore. I'm glad to be trying

1419
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 1: to get my life back, you know, freedom is something

1420
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: I think I took for granted frankly before this happened.

1421
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: Like you don't realize you just sort of built into

1422
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: your life until it's taken away. So happy to at

1423
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 1: least have most of my freedom. I'm not completely out

1424
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: of the woods with these legal assaults they're targeting me with,

1425
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: but I'm really really happy today, and I really couldn't

1426
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 1: have done it without all the support. I think that's

1427
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: important because you're free, but you've been disbarred, nearly bankrupted,

1428
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: your reputation tarnished, so it's not like it's you know,

1429
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 1: rainbows and sunshine exactly. Look, one thing I'll say is

1430
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 1: I think Chevron's strategy to use this to crush me failed.

1431
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,879
Speaker 1: I think I'm stronger than ever. I mean, the support

1432
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: we have is just has grown exponentially in the last

1433
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 1: year or two because they overreached and locked up a

1434
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 1: human rights lowry in the United States of America. So

1435
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, while I do face certain challenges, I also

1436
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 1: have all sorts of other possibilities that come out of it.

1437
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: I think overall, their strategy failed. I mean, I'm as

1438
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: strong as ever. I'm stronger, actually, and I'm energized by

1439
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: the whole experience, and I'm going to keep fighting for

1440
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 1: the people of Ecuador, fighting for human rights generally, and

1441
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 1: I really am excited about the future. Lastly, you know,

1442
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: I've been covering a lot of doom and gloom lately

1443
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, but covering Amazon victory, I mean,

1444
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 1: obviously you had to face nine hundred and ninety three

1445
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:08,560
Speaker 1: days of in just the tension. But I feel like

1446
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: there's a different energy right now, just in different movements

1447
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: and organizing. Can you talk about that. Yeah, I think

1448
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: it's important to understand that all liberation struggles are connected.

1449
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: And what Chris Mall's is doing winning the union vote

1450
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: in Amazon, which by the way, is just the tip

1451
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: of the iceberg. I mean, there's gonna be one hundred

1452
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: of these votes over the next two three years, in

1453
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 1: my opinion, So he's reshaping the American labor movement. I

1454
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: think through the Ecuador case, I'd like to think we're

1455
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 1: reshaping the paradigm of how you can achieve environmental justice

1456
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 1: against the major polluters of the world. You know, So

1457
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: when we met, like we had a lot in common

1458
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: just talking about our different struggles. They're very connected. It's

1459
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 1: all connected. Isn't it. So Yeah, I do think there's

1460
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 1: a new energy in the air. I think people really

1461
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 1: feel the possibility. I think, you know, I think the

1462
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 1: United States has so many problems and becomes so deep,

1463
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, inequality of income, lack of opportunity, lack of

1464
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 1: a healthcare plan, and people realize it doesn't have to

1465
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: be this way. These are the results of policy choices

1466
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: made by politicians who are mostly bought by the corporate world,

1467
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 1: you know. So we can change that, and it's up

1468
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: to us to change that. And I think the energy

1469
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: in the air here tonight is an example of that.

1470
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 1: Go get really drunk on good Champagne. Great interview and

1471
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: just great to hear from him and see him so

1472
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: incredibly happy after being locked in his house for so

1473
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 1: many year and he has a young teenage that I mean,

1474
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,640
Speaker 1: it really was horrific what they did to him. But

1475
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 1: one of the best things Soga that I saw yesterday

1476
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 1: at that block party is Chris Mall's was there and

1477
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,559
Speaker 1: spoke as well. And here's two men who you know,

1478
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: corporate America try to demonize, try to destroy ultimately, and

1479
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:47,080
Speaker 1: it only made them more courageous and greater sort of

1480
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,679
Speaker 1: moral leaders. So to see the two of them together

1481
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 1: and clearly sharing that bond was also really extraordinary and

1482
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: very inspiring. Oh yeah, man, I mean what happened to

1483
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: him is objectively crazy, especially and whenever I would talk

1484
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: to me, I said, I can't believe be the first

1485
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 1: person in US history and for a lawyer, nor be

1486
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 1: held in contempt of court in the old private prosecution.

1487
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 1: I mean, the details of this are literally insane. Yeah,

1488
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: I know it may seem a little bit distant, but

1489
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: we have this tweet. Let's put this up there. Steven's

1490
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 1: starting a substack now. I will put a link down

1491
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: there in the description that all of you guys can

1492
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 1: go and subscribe to if you're interested. Because, as he said,

1493
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, now he's free, and now he's got a

1494
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: fight for redemption. So it's a lot got to make

1495
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: a living now. So, I mean, they came after his

1496
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 1: legal his law license right and disbarred him, and you know,

1497
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: the legal costs were extraordinarily onerous. So and regardless, even

1498
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,519
Speaker 1: you know, putting all of that aside, he has a

1499
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 1: very important and very courageous voice. So I'm pleased to

1500
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: support him, and I hope you'll consider doing the same.

1501
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 1: Absolutely All right, Sager, what are you looking at? It's

1502
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 1: been nearly a week now since Taylor Lorenz in the

1503
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: Washington Post revealed the identity of the person behind the

1504
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 1: popular Twitter account libs of TikTok, which sparked a fierce

1505
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 1: debate online as to the ethics of the decision. Was

1506
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: it really appropriate for Jeff Bezos's multi billion dollar reporting

1507
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 1: resources to be used by activist journalist Taylor Lorenz to

1508
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: unveil the identity of a private citizen who, at the

1509
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: end of the day, is just reposting videos with an

1510
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 1: editorial bent. Now, I have a somewhat nuanced take that

1511
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 1: I want to flesh out with all of you. First

1512
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 1: of all, this which may be unpopular with my right

1513
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 1: wing listeners, I actually think libs of TikTok did reach

1514
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 1: the threshold of a public figure. She unquestionably is one

1515
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: of the most important conservative activists in the entire country,

1516
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: and is probably more responsible than any one person for

1517
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: the passage of the recent Florida law banning sexual ideology

1518
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: being talked to children betweens kindergarten and third grade. And

1519
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: as I wrote in reaction, the real story is to

1520
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 1: me is how this person came out of nowhere to

1521
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 1: such prominence. Why does the ideology resonate so much with

1522
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 1: the American and Floridian public. You can disagree if you

1523
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: would like, But the recent important question to ask is

1524
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,719
Speaker 1: the content you don't like is why is this doing? Well?

1525
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: Not to try and take it down. It's in that

1526
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: that Lorenz acted. Lorenz, of course, is the famous journalist

1527
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:07,480
Speaker 1: who collapsed into tears on national TV because of online harassment,

1528
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 1: and yet merely a week after the spectacle, she went

1529
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: out of her way to reveal the identity of the

1530
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 1: libs of TikTok account, in which she linked to a

1531
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 1: private real estate license of the owner, explicitly attempting to

1532
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: dox her. She visited the house of a relative of

1533
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 1: the owner and then quoted numerous people who paint her

1534
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: as a hate mongerer online. That's just the story. There

1535
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 1: was zero discussion why is this stuff resonating in the

1536
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 1: first place? Almost immediately the backlash was happening. And it's

1537
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: in their response to the backlash where the gas lighting

1538
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:39,639
Speaker 1: is reaching new heights that I did not even think

1539
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 1: possible by these liars. First and foremost, the Washington Post

1540
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 1: came to Lorenz's defense, saying she is an accomplished and

1541
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: professional journalist law to that, adding though quote, we did

1542
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 1: not publish or link to any details of her personal life.

1543
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 1: They added this this specifically to hit back at the

1544
01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 1: doxing allegations, but as The Washington Post knows, the Internet

1545
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 1: never forgets. Archive versions of the story show that the

1546
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: Post actually did link to that real estate license for

1547
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 1: the owner of the account, and only deleted it immediately

1548
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 1: upon public backlash. They did not mention that at all,

1549
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: and it's a direct lie. That was the initial defense.

1550
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: But one thing that we know about Lorenzo is she

1551
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 1: really just cannot help herself. So on Sunday, she appeared

1552
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 1: on Brian Stelter's failing CNN program Reliable Sources to defend

1553
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: her reporting, lying again about doxing, but also dropping another

1554
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: revealing comment. Let's take a lesson. So here's the next one.

1555
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,639
Speaker 1: The conservative supporters of the account said, you were doxing

1556
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 1: the person. You're doxing them. So he tell us how

1557
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 1: you actually defined doxing and the difference between doxing and

1558
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: real reporting. Yeah, of course. Well, the word doxing has

1559
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 1: been so devalued and it just kind of is a

1560
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:53,599
Speaker 1: buzzword now in the right wing media. Doxing means revealing highly,

1561
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 1: highly personal, non public information with the goal of harassment

1562
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:02,559
Speaker 1: or sort of destroying someone's We absolutely did not reveal

1563
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: any personal information about this woman at all, And I

1564
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 1: think it's incredibly important, you know, as someone that covers

1565
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 1: the influencer industry, to know who is exerting influence in

1566
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: this way. I mean, for all, we knew this could

1567
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: have been a foreign actor, right or someone we just

1568
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: didn't know, And so I thought, hey, look, this account

1569
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 1: has massive power, massive influence. This woman is basically a

1570
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:28,679
Speaker 1: foreign actor. Interesting language and actually worth parsing. As David

1571
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,719
Speaker 1: Sax points out in response, the excuse to investigate lives

1572
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:33,719
Speaker 1: of TikTok is that she might be a foreign actor.

1573
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: But the excuse for not reporting on the Hunter Byden

1574
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 1: laptop story or the Hillary Clinton emails is that they

1575
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 1: could be foreign disinformation. So which is it. Foreign actors

1576
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 1: are worth reporting on when they're dissonant to the cultural regime,

1577
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 1: but not when they challenge the cultural regime. Obviously, these

1578
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:50,919
Speaker 1: things all crumble in their inconsistency if they were concerned

1579
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 1: the account being run by a foreign actor. They could

1580
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: have investigated and just said, okay, we confirmed it is

1581
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,120
Speaker 1: not a foreign actor. The final point, though, that I'll

1582
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: make here is about the death of journalism, with a

1583
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:02,600
Speaker 1: take that I borrow from Matt u Iglesias, which is

1584
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: this look. If Taylor Lorenz wants to be a cringe

1585
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 1: columnist where she expresses her opinions to a bunch of

1586
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:10,919
Speaker 1: woke libs who read the Washington Post, that is actually fine,

1587
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: it's a free country. But it is obvious when you

1588
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,640
Speaker 1: read her story that she hates libs of TikTok and

1589
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: thinks that it's bad. Fine, just express that opinion. The

1590
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 1: real problem is that the journalism you see today is

1591
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: just thinly veiled opinion columns disguised as news stories. She

1592
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,799
Speaker 1: has to dress up her fake doxing campaign and opinion

1593
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 1: as a quote unquote reporting. So just say that you

1594
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,919
Speaker 1: hate her and you're a woke lib. Everybody knows that already.

1595
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 1: The rise of Lorenz herself is a real story behind

1596
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 1: the death of journalism. I cannot tell you how many

1597
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:43,799
Speaker 1: people I know who work inside these major media companies

1598
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 1: who privately tell me she is unhinged and unprofessional. But

1599
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 1: they all are either cowed by her or even come

1600
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:53,599
Speaker 1: to her defense because they are terrified themselves of being

1601
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 1: branded as anti trans, anti woke, or right wing. She

1602
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:00,439
Speaker 1: is holding much of professional journalism hostage, and the same

1603
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 1: way that many wokesters are in the same major corporations,

1604
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: in media companies that are today. The death of that

1605
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: industry has wide ranging implications, as we see in the

1606
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 1: fusion of so called journalism to just becoming opinion reporting.

1607
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: In this we find ourselves in a real bind. We

1608
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:20,719
Speaker 1: all have to parse individual news articles. Are they true?

1609
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 1: Are they not? Who wrote it? Not really being able

1610
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 1: to rely on any more one organization for facts. That

1611
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 1: is what we're trying to fix here, But it takes

1612
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: a lot of money and time. In major institutions that

1613
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 1: have been charged with the trust of the American public

1614
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 1: are collapsing. At the same time. More importantly, what we

1615
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 1: see from the Taylor of Lorenz saga is that this

1616
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 1: is a dangerous time for anyone who is a dissonant

1617
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: against the cultural regime. Not only will they dox you

1618
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 1: and reveal your public information, but if you fight back,

1619
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,920
Speaker 1: they will use their crocodile tiers on national TV to

1620
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: say you are harassing them. And then brand you everything

1621
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:55,720
Speaker 1: under the sun. They preserve that they want and true

1622
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,680
Speaker 1: preserve the monopoly on the right to dos. Now. The

1623
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 1: best way you can fight back is to replace them.

1624
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 1: That's why christ and I are investing in ordinate amounts

1625
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:05,800
Speaker 1: of resources as we approach our one year anniversary to

1626
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 1: trying to build a new mainstream, and as they destroy

1627
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 1: their trust amongst the public, somebody has to stop up.

1628
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: It can't just be us. It really does have to

1629
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: be everybody, because you have to turn them out, turn

1630
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 1: them off, and make them pay in the only way

1631
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 1: that matters, which is not paying attention to them in

1632
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 1: the way that they want. I think that you know,

1633
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: the iglcias part of this was the best point, which

1634
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 1: is and if you want to hear my reaction to

1635
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com.

1636
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 1: All right, christlal, what are you going to look at? Well? Guys.

1637
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: Senator Bernie Sanders is eighty years old. He has served

1638
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 1: in federal office for longer than soccer has been alive.

1639
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 1: In his last presidential campaign, he suffered a heart attack,

1640
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 1: although it must be said he bounced back from it

1641
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: in a pretty astonishing way. Un Reportedly, he is considering

1642
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 1: running for president again. Here is the Washington Post with

1643
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 1: that scoop Sanders has not ruled out another run for

1644
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 1: president if Biden does not. They explain that Bernie's former

1645
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 1: campaign manager, Faz Shakir send on a memo to all

1646
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: the candidates Bernie has endorsed with guidance on how to

1647
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 1: respond to any attacks that they receive about Bernie's endorsement.

1648
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 1: Included in that guidance was this line quote, in the

1649
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 1: event of an open twenty twenty four Democratic presidential primary,

1650
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: Senator Sanders has not ruled out another run for president.

1651
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 1: So we advise that you answer any questions about twenty

1652
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:29,080
Speaker 1: twenty four with that in mind. So what shall we

1653
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:31,320
Speaker 1: make of this? First of all, let me be clear

1654
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: for me personally, if my choices are Biden, Trump, or Bernie,

1655
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:36,479
Speaker 1: none of whom are spring chickens, I might add, it

1656
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:38,479
Speaker 1: is not even a little bit of a hard choice.

1657
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: I would vote for Bernie's mumified corpse over either Biden

1658
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 1: or Trump. What's more, the fact that he would only

1659
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: consider running if Biden takes a pass or doesn't make

1660
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 1: it to the starting line. That maybe makes the whole

1661
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: flirtation kind of a moot point. Biden reportedly already told

1662
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 1: Obaum that he is planning on running again, and assuming

1663
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 1: he is able, I do buy it. Demolites know that

1664
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 1: Kamala is even more or of a disaster than Joe Biden,

1665
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 1: and they would do a lot to avoid anything with

1666
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: even a whiff of an actual democratic process like an

1667
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 1: open primary would be. So I fully expect them to

1668
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:12,160
Speaker 1: suck it up and stick with Joe if that is

1669
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 1: at all possible. But I still think it's worth reflecting

1670
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: on what it means than a man who should by

1671
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 1: all rights be able to enjoy his grand babies and

1672
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 1: to sit back and reflect on the profound mark he's

1673
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 1: left on American politics still feels that there may be

1674
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 1: no other real alternative than for him to give it

1675
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: a third try. Bernie cracking the door open really lays

1676
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:34,200
Speaker 1: bare the fact that there is no obvious success or

1677
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: to carry the banner of a populist, universalist left politics,

1678
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: and guys, a look around the halls of Congress kind

1679
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 1: of proves the point. In the Senate, probably the next

1680
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 1: closest to Bernie ideologically is Elizabeth Warren, but her initial

1681
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 1: populist appeal has long faded into a bloodless, technocratic approach,

1682
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:54,759
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with challenging political power. Her presidential primary campaign quickly

1683
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: slid into hollow identitarianism and suffered from serious political missteps

1684
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 1: like firstont sample the whole DNA a test situation, not

1685
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,240
Speaker 1: to mention her seeming lack of candor when it came

1686
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 1: to Medicare for All, and to Joe Biden's corruption. Warren's

1687
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 1: appeal only works with upscale, wine track voters who are

1688
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: perfectly comfortable with a wide range of standard issue Democratic candidates. Now,

1689
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: if ever, there was any doubt, Warren's decision to lie

1690
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: about Bernie being a secret sexist sealed her fate. Elizabeth

1691
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 1: Warren will not be Bernie Sanders' successor in the House.

1692
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: You've of course got the Squad, a group of youngish

1693
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 1: members who have largely adopted the fattish way of approaching

1694
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 1: politics that is ascended among the young left, whereas Bernie's

1695
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: politics and rhetorical frame are pitched towards mainstream acceptance, crafted

1696
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,080
Speaker 1: as they were during the time of mass communications and

1697
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: broadly shared American culture, and honed in Vermont at a

1698
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:46,839
Speaker 1: time when the state was actually really conservative and staunchly

1699
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: republican AOC and CO. They've responded to twitter market incentives

1700
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 1: that push them towards the specialized and towards the niche.

1701
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: Those incentives mean that edginess is reported rather than the

1702
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 1: ability to generate broad support. The result is a tendency

1703
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 1: to lean into slogans that are seemingly designed to register

1704
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 1: the highest shock value but garner the least possible actual support,

1705
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 1: and a similar tendency to focus on issues that are

1706
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: the most hotly contested and the most divisive rather than

1707
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 1: those were again the left and joys of broad support.

1708
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 1: Being a niche player, it's not without power. It can

1709
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: lead to holding a large amount of sway with a

1710
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: group of fervent supporters, and with our politics being as

1711
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: filled with apathy as it currently is, sometimes you only

1712
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 1: need a committed minority to accomplish big things. But being

1713
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: a niche player is not going to win you a

1714
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: national election. That's why even now, after all the smears

1715
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 1: of Bernie from the left and from the right, and

1716
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 1: all the fear mongering about socialism, Bernie still outperforms just

1717
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: about everybody in presidential primary polling in the Democratic Party

1718
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: A recent HarrisX poll had him polling above everyone in

1719
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:52,519
Speaker 1: a theoretical Democratic primary save for the sitting president and

1720
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,680
Speaker 1: sitting Vice president. A yugub poll from January had him

1721
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 1: second only to Biden, and Bernie consistently beats his closest

1722
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 1: Aidya Lige allies like Warren and AOC. In spite of

1723
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,200
Speaker 1: his elder status and the fact that across eight years

1724
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:07,160
Speaker 1: and two tries, he was not able to get the

1725
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 1: job done. And guys, I do think that's worth mentioning too,

1726
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: especially against Joe Biden, Bernie was not ultimately willing to

1727
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:16,639
Speaker 1: speak the hard truths that were needed to actually win.

1728
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:20,320
Speaker 1: He landed respectful jabs on some policy issues, but when

1729
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 1: it came to specifically detailing how campaign cash had led

1730
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: Biden to a career occurring favor with the financial services industry,

1731
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: not to mention the familial lapses in integrity that have

1732
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 1: only become more of a problem for Joe Biden, Bernie

1733
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 1: just wasn't willing to go there. So, while there are

1734
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 1: many things to admire about Bernie Sanders and to aspire

1735
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 1: to in his vision for the country, in the end,

1736
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 1: he did not have the killer instinct to close the deal.

1737
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:45,679
Speaker 1: The fact that he ruled out running in a primary

1738
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: against Biden directly kind of says it all about just

1739
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:50,960
Speaker 1: how far he will go to challenge this current iteration

1740
01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:53,560
Speaker 1: of the dem powers that be Let me close with

1741
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 1: this hopeful note, heroes and opportunities can arise out of

1742
01:27:57,240 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 1: nowhere to meet the moment. Just think about Chris Malls

1743
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 1: being reluctantly forced into being the face of the Amazon

1744
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,559
Speaker 1: labor union effort and becoming the revolutionary that the nation's

1745
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:10,479
Speaker 1: workers needed. Think about Bernie himself jumping into what appeared

1746
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 1: to be a Hillary Clinton coronation. I don't even think

1747
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 1: he thought he could win, and he ended up ushering

1748
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: a left awakening the galvanized and entire movement. Senator Sanders

1749
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: deserves a successor who can shoulder the weight of leading

1750
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:24,679
Speaker 1: that movement so that he can serve as an elder

1751
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: statesman and frankly enjoy his golden years. A third presidential

1752
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:30,720
Speaker 1: run is too much of a burden to ask of

1753
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 1: any one individual, and by the way, we all deserve

1754
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:37,639
Speaker 1: a politics that is not dependent on one extremely dogged

1755
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 1: eighty year old man. And Sager, I do think it's

1756
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 1: very telling, even though listen I think Biden, and if

1757
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become

1758
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:51,840
Speaker 1: a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com. All right, guys,

1759
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:53,479
Speaker 1: we had a little bit of a change of plans.

1760
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 1: We're going to post the Kim Kelly interview later. She

1761
01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 1: has a wonderful new book out on labor history. But

1762
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 1: we are lucky to be joined by Ari Ravenhoft. He

1763
01:29:01,479 --> 01:29:04,759
Speaker 1: is the former deputy campaign manager of Bernie twenty twenty.

1764
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 1: He is now enjoying his life photographing sharks, I understand,

1765
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:10,840
Speaker 1: in addition to many other things, which probably gives you

1766
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 1: an even better perspective now that you are removed from

1767
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 1: the political bubble. And the reason we have him here

1768
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 1: today is because he is also the author of a

1769
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:19,880
Speaker 1: new great book that I have just finished reading called

1770
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 1: The Fighting Soul on the Road with Bernie Sanders, which

1771
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: you should tell people about why you wanted to write

1772
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: the book because it is very like inside the campaign

1773
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty and as someone who is a Bernie

1774
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 1: Sanders supporters at the time, it was very painful to

1775
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:36,759
Speaker 1: like relive some of the slings and arrarors of the campaign.

1776
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 1: But what you say, is you really wanted people to

1777
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:42,880
Speaker 1: get a sort of true picture of who this man

1778
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 1: is and what makes him tick. Yeah. I feel I

1779
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 1: felt like there are a million like post mortem campaign

1780
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: books and profiles, and very few people actually know who

1781
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is, as famous and as important and as

1782
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: influential as he is. And I really feel like that

1783
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 1: was an important story to tell who is Bernie Sanders,

1784
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 1: what drives him, what makes him tick, and kind of

1785
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:06,840
Speaker 1: give people an actual flavor for this person who really

1786
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 1: did change the course of history. Ari, I mean one

1787
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 1: of the important things that to me, we have a

1788
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 1: limited amount of time, just can you get us some

1789
01:30:13,080 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 1: anecdotes about how centralized power was trying to influence your campaign,

1790
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:20,240
Speaker 1: and not just a campaign, but Sanders in general, and

1791
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:22,799
Speaker 1: what that looks like for people who wonder what corruption

1792
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:25,280
Speaker 1: looks like on the inside. Sure, I think you know.

1793
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 1: One of the quotes that has gotten some attention was

1794
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:31,479
Speaker 1: the Obama quote where Bernie, Obama and I the three

1795
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 1: of us were in a room together alone in twenty eighteen,

1796
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 1: and Bernie had this meeting with Obama to be like,

1797
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking about it. What do you think

1798
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 1: he really hadn't decided yet, And this it was this

1799
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 1: intriguing moment that you have these two guys, both of whom,

1800
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:48,960
Speaker 1: by the way, have big egos, and in a room

1801
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 1: together having this conversation, and finally Obama kind of turns

1802
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: to Bernie and is like, Bernie, you're an Old Testament prophet.

1803
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 1: You like give us a moral voice, but prophets don't

1804
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 1: get to be king. And are you willing to make

1805
01:31:02,240 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: the changes necessary? Are you willing to kind of be

1806
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:08,760
Speaker 1: a broader figure? Are you willing to reach out to

1807
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:14,720
Speaker 1: the small business conservative Democrat in the South to be

1808
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:18,600
Speaker 1: part of your thing? Are you willing to if you

1809
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:20,720
Speaker 1: want to lead the Democratic Party, are you willing to

1810
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:23,759
Speaker 1: put on the jersey? And that pressure really did exist

1811
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: on Bernie, and he really kind of pushed it aside

1812
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:30,719
Speaker 1: at every angle. And then you have the media pressure

1813
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:34,160
Speaker 1: where at different points in the campaign, Look, there was

1814
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 1: the Bernie blackout that was very very real. There were

1815
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:42,719
Speaker 1: points where our own beat reporters at times, people couldn't

1816
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 1: come out on the road with us because their editors

1817
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: were like, it's not worth us spending the budget to

1818
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:50,800
Speaker 1: send out to send people out with Bernie. And you know,

1819
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:53,479
Speaker 1: I had this scene in the book that Crystal you

1820
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 1: tweeted about. We're a reporter, literally, and I don't want

1821
01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:58,960
Speaker 1: to give this person away because they were they were

1822
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:02,280
Speaker 1: actually commiserating on this, and I feel like that's unfair,

1823
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:05,879
Speaker 1: but they were like they were like, yeah, my bosses

1824
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: want Kamala Harris to win. Wow. See, I mean this

1825
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 1: is the thing is like, obviously I worked a media

1826
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 1: I'm a s NBC and always go back and forth

1827
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:17,960
Speaker 1: about how sort of like outright the biases and how

1828
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:19,960
Speaker 1: people just like are drinking the kool aid and they

1829
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 1: really think they're being honest. And that anecdote made me

1830
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 1: tilt more in the favor of like, no, it actually

1831
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:28,559
Speaker 1: is even more nefarious and more directed than you actually

1832
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 1: think that it is. I think it's actually all of

1833
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 1: the above, because I think they don't think they're being biased,

1834
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:35,599
Speaker 1: and I would hear this from like, we're not being biased.

1835
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:37,680
Speaker 1: This is just the way the world is. Well, no,

1836
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:40,479
Speaker 1: that's your bias. Look at how the world is. This

1837
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 1: is a key point from Noam Chomsky right about the

1838
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 1: way that you would never have the ability to have

1839
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:47,560
Speaker 1: the job if you weren't somebody who wasn't willing to

1840
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:49,600
Speaker 1: go at it, and so I can't conceive of like

1841
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 1: why exactly bias is inherent within it. I mean, I'd

1842
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:54,639
Speaker 1: love for you to go into make some more examples

1843
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 1: on the media front, and Cristell and I lived it's

1844
01:32:57,240 --> 01:32:59,599
Speaker 1: come the original time that our show kind of came

1845
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 1: to dominance, Like, just give people more examples, because I

1846
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:04,400
Speaker 1: think the more that you can iterate it, that people

1847
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:07,000
Speaker 1: will say, wow, like these are the real ways that

1848
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 1: this works whenever you're trying to challenge centralized power. I mean,

1849
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 1: there's the story in the book which is actually pretty

1850
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:20,840
Speaker 1: remarkable where the Washing Post reports that the Russians are

1851
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 1: supporting Bernie's campaign. Remember this, Yeah, and and like he's

1852
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 1: being asked about it. Now here's the thing. There's a

1853
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 1: bunch of like classified intel that Bernie knows because he's

1854
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 1: a senator. Also, another person had told us they were

1855
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 1: doing reporting on some of this and were like, that's

1856
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 1: not what the briefing said. The briefing said, right this

1857
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 1: other the briefing basically said, Russia just wants to sew

1858
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:51,760
Speaker 1: discord discord, Yes, and part of that discord has been

1859
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 1: kind of trolling online, and there was some Bernie was

1860
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 1: subject of some of the Bernie trolls were part of

1861
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:01,679
Speaker 1: that discord is what which is very different than supporting Bernie.

1862
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:04,040
Speaker 1: And then he gets asked about it on the tarmac

1863
01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 1: and look, he has a moment where he like points

1864
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: at a reporter and says, like Washington Posts like great

1865
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:11,479
Speaker 1: friends or something like that, and it was like it

1866
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 1: was like there was this reaction among journalists, some of

1867
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:16,679
Speaker 1: whom I really do respect and think are good journalists.

1868
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 1: But they were like this was like the end of

1869
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:21,680
Speaker 1: the world. And I was sitting there like, you know,

1870
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be like, I have to be somewhat

1871
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 1: empathetic to this, and we do have to kind of

1872
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 1: work with these people. But at the same time, it's like,

1873
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:34,280
Speaker 1: that's not really that's like your biggest thing that Bernie

1874
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:37,040
Speaker 1: was like Washington Post Great Friends. Like there was an

1875
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 1: incredible freak out over that. And it actually it's funny

1876
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:41,840
Speaker 1: because it came up in today's show because we were

1877
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:45,240
Speaker 1: talking about Elon Musk. Yeah, and look, I am I

1878
01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 1: do not like it when billionaires own the means of communication.

1879
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:50,519
Speaker 1: They but I didn't like it when Bezos did it,

1880
01:34:50,600 --> 01:34:51,960
Speaker 1: and I don't like it when mus did it, And

1881
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:53,680
Speaker 1: so you know, there are a lot of people who

1882
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 1: are really really upset about Musk but were on the

1883
01:34:57,320 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 1: other side and like defending the honor of Jeff Bezos

1884
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 1: in the Washington Post. And there's no of course, there's

1885
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 1: no bad influence. And that's what's like kind of remarkable

1886
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 1: at times. Remember this is at the same period, this

1887
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:11,240
Speaker 1: is in the same two week period where Bernie's getting

1888
01:35:11,280 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 1: called literally a Nazi on MSNBC right at different points,

1889
01:35:15,240 --> 01:35:17,320
Speaker 1: which you know, by the way, and they're going to

1890
01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:20,519
Speaker 1: like line people. There's that kind of amazing scene that

1891
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 1: I just love. I put in because I loved it.

1892
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,760
Speaker 1: I was then on Chris Matthews's show from the South

1893
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:29,720
Speaker 1: Carolina Debate Spin Room, and he actually like he apologizes,

1894
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:32,960
Speaker 1: and I actually believe it was a legitimate apology. He

1895
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:34,800
Speaker 1: kind of just got into his own I actually did

1896
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: believe it. We talked about it. So I'm going on

1897
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:39,559
Speaker 1: his show and just in the moments before he gets

1898
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:41,560
Speaker 1: on the show, He's just like, I just e f

1899
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:47,680
Speaker 1: and love being on TV. A week later, like we canceled, canceled, Well,

1900
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 1: there was another media story that I think is also

1901
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:54,679
Speaker 1: really interesting and important. Something else that we covered, which

1902
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 1: was the whole Elizabeth Warren accusing Bernie of you know,

1903
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 1: telling her privately that she couldn't win because she's a woman.

1904
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:06,080
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, first of all, you

1905
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:07,840
Speaker 1: make the case, look, the only people in the room

1906
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:12,200
Speaker 1: were Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Warren's husband. Yeah, and

1907
01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:14,519
Speaker 1: you know these news outlets were reporting they had like

1908
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:16,760
Speaker 1: three or four sources for this, and you're like, there's

1909
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 1: there were only three people in the room, and obviously

1910
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:21,479
Speaker 1: one of them is denying your reporting, So what are

1911
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 1: you doing here? But you also make the case that

1912
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 1: you know there were people on the campaign team who

1913
01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:29,800
Speaker 1: were fairly skeptical of Ward's abilities as a candidate. I

1914
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:31,960
Speaker 1: would say those people were more or less proved correct,

1915
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:34,160
Speaker 1: but Bernie was not one of them. That he was

1916
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:37,840
Speaker 1: consistently you guys, don't undress She's very smart, she's very

1917
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:39,519
Speaker 1: you know, capable on this slope. I've known her for

1918
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:42,519
Speaker 1: two decades, I've like worked with her. She's so smart

1919
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 1: and capable. Don't like, don't underestimate her, like, And it

1920
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 1: was so weird to me the whole thing, as I

1921
01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:52,280
Speaker 1: point out, because look, I've had hundreds of dinners with Bernie.

1922
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 1: I've talked about every subject known to man, and I've

1923
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:58,679
Speaker 1: just I know how he thinks about things, and nothing

1924
01:36:58,720 --> 01:37:01,800
Speaker 1: ever even came close to what the Elizabeth Warren things.

1925
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:04,280
Speaker 1: So it kind of shocked me in that, Like, who

1926
01:37:04,360 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 1: knows what happened in the room, but if he was

1927
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 1: going to say that, we probably would, like I know

1928
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 1: his opinion on it, and it just was so far

1929
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 1: away from anything he ever said. So what was the

1930
01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 1: impact that you saw in the polls and with regards

1931
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 1: to you know, who was whose candidates were first choice

1932
01:37:21,120 --> 01:37:23,519
Speaker 1: and second choice and how that all sort of you know,

1933
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:27,040
Speaker 1: was determined by this moment. So it very much balkanized

1934
01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 1: Warren and Bernie supporters. Yeah, like before you saw some

1935
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:33,120
Speaker 1: second choice because Iowa has second choice, you saw some

1936
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:36,880
Speaker 1: second choice Warren supporters with Bernie that kind of completely

1937
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:39,920
Speaker 1: divided the camps in terms of things. You saw Bernie

1938
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:44,240
Speaker 1: support among women take take a fall. After that you

1939
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:48,519
Speaker 1: saw and look, the big thing was I think what

1940
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:51,759
Speaker 1: people didn't realize in terms of first choice support, Warren

1941
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:55,160
Speaker 1: and Bernie were not conjoined Van diagrams. Biden and Bernie

1942
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:58,920
Speaker 1: were much closer in terms of supporters. But if if

1943
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 1: one wasn't in the their supporters were more could have

1944
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:07,120
Speaker 1: gone to the other candidate, except after that point that

1945
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 1: it kind of just divided the camps completely interesting. And

1946
01:38:11,320 --> 01:38:13,120
Speaker 1: then the other piece I wanted to get from you,

1947
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:15,680
Speaker 1: Ari is you know, like you said, there's been a

1948
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:18,439
Speaker 1: million post mortems, and you know, what could they have

1949
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:21,000
Speaker 1: done different? And first of all, I wonder if you

1950
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:23,800
Speaker 1: have any analysis of like, maybe we should have made

1951
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 1: X decision instead of why decision? But the one that

1952
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 1: I find most compelling is clearly, at the end of

1953
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 1: the day, you know, voters who said the thing they

1954
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: were most concerned about was the issues, they backed Ernie Sanders.

1955
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:39,680
Speaker 1: And those voters were overwhelmingly young voters who said we

1956
01:38:39,840 --> 01:38:42,120
Speaker 1: just got to go with whoever can defeat Donald Trump.

1957
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:44,800
Speaker 1: They lined up behind Joe Biden, and that ends up being,

1958
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 1: you know, the direction that they go. And first of all,

1959
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:49,160
Speaker 1: did you anticipate that would be the question that the

1960
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,800
Speaker 1: campaign turned on? And second of all, given that you know,

1961
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:55,799
Speaker 1: for decades now, the media narrative has been the electable

1962
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 1: person is the person who's you know, in the center

1963
01:38:58,200 --> 01:39:00,599
Speaker 1: and moderate and all of these things, do you think

1964
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:03,920
Speaker 1: you could have done more to overcome the narrative that

1965
01:39:04,160 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders was not the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump.

1966
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,080
Speaker 1: I think there was a lot of moments in the campaign,

1967
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 1: especially in April, in the spring and the summer, we

1968
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 1: were very much on this Bernie Beach Trump narrative. We

1969
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:18,640
Speaker 1: put out polling, We did tours of the Midwest, We

1970
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 1: did things like the Fox News Pound Hall, which was

1971
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:23,880
Speaker 1: to kind of prove, hey, Bernie can go in front

1972
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:27,640
Speaker 1: of these audiences and win them. We were doing a

1973
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 1: bunch of things like that. We were kind of constantly messaging.

1974
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 1: But the thing we quickly realized was the only thing

1975
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:35,599
Speaker 1: that's going to prove the voters that Bernie can win

1976
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:38,000
Speaker 1: is by winning. Which is why it was so important

1977
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:41,639
Speaker 1: to kind of win Iowa, win New Hampshire, blowout Nevada.

1978
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:47,400
Speaker 1: The principal theory, the problem we always saw was Joe

1979
01:39:47,439 --> 01:39:50,760
Speaker 1: Biden was kind of unique among other candidates, and if

1980
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:53,479
Speaker 1: we got to Super Tuesday one on one with Joe Biden,

1981
01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:57,280
Speaker 1: it was not going to be a good Super Tuesday

1982
01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 1: because there's a certain segment the party who is going

1983
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:04,639
Speaker 1: to who's open to Bernie. But if it's the two

1984
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 1: of them one on one, they're going Biden because of Obama,

1985
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:11,639
Speaker 1: because oh, you know, he's been vice president, he's tested,

1986
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:14,479
Speaker 1: he's the guy. And that was a that was a

1987
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:18,280
Speaker 1: brick wall we did run into. I don't know what

1988
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:22,280
Speaker 1: could have been done other other than and I think

1989
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:24,760
Speaker 1: this is important. I talk in the book about kind

1990
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:27,679
Speaker 1: of the moments Bernie pulled his punches on Biden. Yes,

1991
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 1: and the reason if like the problem isn't fixing the

1992
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:34,639
Speaker 1: problem in February. I talk about in the book kind

1993
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 1: of in September when the campaign staff was very much like,

1994
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 1: you have to go at Biden, and Bernie rejected that notion.

1995
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:45,439
Speaker 1: And is that because of because what I've read is

1996
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,519
Speaker 1: that you know, Biden was nice to him at times

1997
01:40:48,600 --> 01:40:51,160
Speaker 1: when other senators weren't necessarily nice to him, that there

1998
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:53,639
Speaker 1: was a true, like sort of warmth between the two

1999
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:56,479
Speaker 1: of them that made it potentially more difficult for the

2000
01:40:57,280 --> 01:41:00,600
Speaker 1: not the policy jabs, but the more direct question you know,

2001
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:04,240
Speaker 1: some of the financial services and taking the money from them,

2002
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:06,080
Speaker 1: some of the direct questioning of his corruption. Was that

2003
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 1: harder for Bernie to do with Biden than it was

2004
01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:10,600
Speaker 1: for say, him to do with Hillary Clinton. Well, or

2005
01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:12,400
Speaker 1: like in this race, Pete like he stepped up in

2006
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:15,000
Speaker 1: New Hampshire, got up at the Politics and Eggs breakfast

2007
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:16,960
Speaker 1: when he needed to go at Pete Yeah, and literally

2008
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:20,479
Speaker 1: started reading off Pete's billionaire donor headlines in front of

2009
01:41:20,520 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: the entire press. Stoop with Biden. Look there, I address

2010
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:26,040
Speaker 1: it in the book. I talk about kind of their

2011
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:28,880
Speaker 1: warm feelings, their interactions. I think there's that I think

2012
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 1: he also had in his mind. And I think Bernie

2013
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:35,000
Speaker 1: is a good strategist, and I also think he saw, Hey, Biden, Bernie,

2014
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:38,120
Speaker 1: voters are together. If I'm too rough with this guy,

2015
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 1: does the kind of what happened with Elizabeth Warren? Do

2016
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:44,360
Speaker 1: I lose access to those working class voters that like

2017
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:47,840
Speaker 1: Biden that are mind too. I think that's in his head,

2018
01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:51,640
Speaker 1: and I think the combo of both causes him to

2019
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:55,439
Speaker 1: you know, it's been reported out at nauseum before my

2020
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 1: book pull punches when look. I think the question is

2021
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 1: to get back to the original question. The solving the

2022
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:07,639
Speaker 1: Super Tuesday problem isn't a February problem. It's a September issue.

2023
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:11,400
Speaker 1: And the question is do you just try to take

2024
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:13,360
Speaker 1: out Biden then so he's not a factor on Super

2025
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:15,920
Speaker 1: Tuesday because you don't have the same problems, like if

2026
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 1: it's Bernie Boudagie on Super Tuesday, it's a very different

2027
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:23,360
Speaker 1: yes formula. Definitely, definitely, well, guys, the book is really interesting.

2028
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:26,680
Speaker 1: There are some wonderful anecdotes. There's some hilarious anecdotes in here,

2029
01:42:26,720 --> 01:42:29,320
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, some interesting never before we're

2030
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:32,080
Speaker 1: seeing insights into what was going on in the campaign,

2031
01:42:32,120 --> 01:42:35,879
Speaker 1: including we didn't even talk about Facebook, just blatantly admitting

2032
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:38,599
Speaker 1: to you the way that they are shaping what people

2033
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:41,439
Speaker 1: are seeing and how they're responding to your posts at

2034
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:44,519
Speaker 1: the Sanders campaign. So I recommend everybody check it out.

2035
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 1: The book is The Fighting Soul by On the Road

2036
01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 1: with Bernie Sanders by Ari raven Hoff, former deputy campaign manager. Ari.

2037
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:54,040
Speaker 1: Great to see you, Thank you still, Thanks Sager, Yeah, absolutely, man,

2038
01:42:54,320 --> 01:42:56,160
Speaker 1: thanks for coming. Thank you guys so much for watching.

2039
01:42:56,200 --> 01:42:58,760
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. Premium subscribers, we love you. You

2040
01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:00,720
Speaker 1: guys make the show capable, and we've got all these

2041
01:43:00,760 --> 01:43:03,400
Speaker 1: awesome new partnerships and we will see you guys on Thursday.

2042
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 1: See you Thursday,