WEBVTT - Frank Gehry 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:05.400 Adamized Studios. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.760 When I phoned Frank Garry to ask him to do 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:17.160 this podcast, he immediately said yes. For years, every time 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.880 a new Frank Gary building opened, Richard, my husband and 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.520 I would make a pilgrimage to visit the Disney Center 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.920 in Los Angeles, the Louis Vreton Foundation in Paris, the 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.440 Guggenheim in Bilbao, and Moore. But one summer in two 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.720 thousand and eight, a spectacular Gary building came up to 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.880 us in Hyde Park, just ten minutes from our house. 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.640 It was a Serpentine pavilion, a temporary structure designed with 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:49.080 his son Sammy. For those few months, we met friends 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.400 there almost daily, watching the sun set, listening to people 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.280 play music, eating and drinking. This brave and beautiful structure 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.800 made Harde Park a better park and London a better city. Today, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.520 I've made a pilgrimage on my own from London to 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.120 Los Angeles, not to see a new Frank Gary building, 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.160 but to see my much loved close friend Frank. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:29.200 Six slices of presciutto or pansetta. I really like that 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.480 one pheasant plucked and clean. Americans don't have. 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:35.720 Ye No, we don't have game. 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.119 They don't have pheasants Canada, but does Canada. But it's 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:42.039 a long time ago. I was in Canada. Half a 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.360 cup of olive oil. I like that. Three garlic cloves peels, yes, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:51.760 I'm still in. Three fresh rosemary sprigs, great, five fresh 0:01:51.840 --> 0:02:00.080 sage leaves. Great. Half a bottle of Josephine dores u. 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:01.880 It's wine. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.360 It's a fortified sweet wine, rather like Marsala. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:06.160 Uh huh. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.520 So you could use Marsala as well. But I love 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.480 the name Josephine Dorik or wine. 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.440 Okay, I like the name too. One hundred and seventy 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:20.480 five millimeter chicken stock, one hundred and twenty five milliiters 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:26.200 of heavy cream. Place the prescudo or pancetta slices over 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:30.120 the pheasant and tie on with a string. Heat the 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.520 olive oil in a saucepan and brown the pheasant on 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:38.760 all sides. Add the garlic and herbs. Cook over a 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.360 medium heat for about forty minutes. Adding the wine and 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.079 stock in stages. You do not want to boil the bird, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.880 but braize it in the liquid. Remove the bird and 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.000 keep warm. Add the cream let it simmer and then season, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.480 pour the juices over the pheasant and serve yum yum. 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:00.560 It's good, isn't it. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.520 I'm shocked you didn't bring me some. 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:04.440 I know it's not the right season. 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.720 There I would go with this interview is. 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.680 Can you imagine me getting into customs? 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.440 And I've got to me it would make the interview. 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.200 We could do that. We can do a replay. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.480 Okay, we'll do it. Did you ever do the cooking? 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.000 I cook mots of brye? 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:22.639 How do you? What is that? 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.800 On Sunday mornings and I have lots of bride bakeoffs 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:33.000 with people. Mats of brie is unleavened bread that the 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:39.120 Jews crusted the desert with Moses a long time ago, 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:46.400 and it's used for Passover. It's used mostly for Passover. 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:53.240 It's unleaven bread for Passover. I break it up underwater 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.760 and get it sort of moist. I salted and stuff, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:03.880 and I take a bunch of eggs and I beat 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:09.920 them up and put them all over the matzabrie and 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:15.000 it absorbs the egg stuff and then I fry him. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.839 That's called matzabrie. Okay, So I grew up with that ye, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:19.360 what did. 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:21.560 You grow up? But tell me first start from the beginning. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.919 Where were you born Toronto? 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:25.760 And where were your parents born? 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.800 My mother Poland, my father New York and his father 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.840 and mother his father Russia. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.239 Russia, Poland, Yeah. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.839 Pince, I think my mother luds ldz. 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.080 Yeah, loves And what was their story? 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:50.440 They came in nineteen thirteen. I think there was a 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:55.400 pogram in Poland. I found out later that the Jews 0:04:55.400 --> 0:05:01.200 were being rounded up and beaten up. And my grandfather, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:06.800 who delivered coal, he had a wagon. I went to 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.880 Lootch and saw where the rail tracks were and where 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.760 he was and when did you I was invited to 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:19.039 do a film festival and called the Camarade Film Festival 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:25.720 in Poland. And I went with David Lynch. David Lynch 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.560 and I went to Poland. I loved the people. And 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.960 I went to the city hall there and they asked 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.679 David and I to sign our names on the wall, 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.640 and I wrote, my grandfather left in nineteen thirteen. If 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.360 he hadn't left, I wouldn't be here. I was immediately 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:49.560 called by the mayor's office and they became very solicitous. 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:55.240 They found all my grandparents' families. They all of a 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.840 sudden became like to show me they really loved the Jews. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.719 Blah blah blah, which was a bunch of bullshit, I guess. 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:08.400 But so I did get a pretty deep and I 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:13.200 found out my grandmother actually ran a foundry. There was 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.960 folklore about it when I was growing up, but it 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:17.120 was true. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:18.200 The grandmother did. 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:24.360 She ran a foundry in Poland. They came across on 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:32.039 a Dutch ship that got stalled mid ocean, which was 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.440 the reason my mother would never cross a bridge in 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:40.239 a car. She had a phobia for so she would 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.480 get out of the car and walk across the bridge 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:47.440 and meet us on the other side because of this experience. 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.479 As I guess she was a nine year old or 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.719 six year old, I don't remember, but obviously they got here. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.880 Yeah, they got to where did they learn to Canada? 0:06:58.520 --> 0:06:58.640 Right? 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:04.320 And they land that in Toronto. My grandfather got a 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.280 horse and buggy. He was delivering bread, I think, and stuff. 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.680 They lived in a little house, tiny house that just 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:11.480 got torn down. 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.680 Did it feel like they were a very Jewish community 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:16.160 within me? 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.680 Yeah, it was a Jewish community. My grandfather had got 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.239 went on to have a hardware store, which I worked 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:26.000 in as a kid with him, and he's the one 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:30.320 that got me to read Talmud. And he wasn't religious. 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.040 It was interesting. He was the head of his little 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.360 congregation because he took the He was a business guy 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.840 and so he managed the money for them. But he 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.880 read Talmud. To me, that was interesting. You know. Talmud 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:50.040 starts with the word why. Yeah, curiosity, and curiosity is 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.360 the feeder for all all of our work, right, all 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:55.520 creativity is. 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:57.680 Somebody always asked me what I look for in a 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.840 new chef or anyone i'd take on it River Cafe, 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:02.560 and I always say, curiosity. 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.920 Yeah, right, that's where I'm interested. 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.280 And so you were. You went to school every day. 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.240 And you know you look So we were in Toronto. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:18.040 I went to I went to Blue Collegiate until forty 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:23.720 seven and then we but in between my family moved 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:28.200 to Timmins, Ontario, five hundred miles north of Toronto, and 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.760 I lived there from eight years old to thirteen years old. 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:33.880 So you've sort of set up a picture of what 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.960 where you were. If you were to kind of close 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.760 your eyes and remember the smells of your mother's kitchen 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.920 or the food in her kitchen. Can you visualize it? 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.920 What was it a big room? Was it a small kitchen? 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.920 Yeah, it was. It was a small kitchen. It wasn't 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:58.079 She wasn't a great cook. Okay, Yeah. My grandmother made 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.840 on the cook stove, made all the to gel fill 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.040 to fish, and I used to watch. That's why everybody 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.600 says I do fish sculptures because I used to go 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.440 pick up the live fish and put it in the bathtub, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.280 and then at night I would I was as a kid. 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.000 I would play with the fish in the bathtub and 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:19.480 then the next day it was gone. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.000 Would did you ever watch them kill the No? 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.600 I didn't know what happened was at home. I finally 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:26.400 figured it out. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.640 But do you think there was? Because that is interesting 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:32.719 about why the fish? Because when did the image of 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:34.160 the fish begin? 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.920 You know, that's a whole other story. Do you want 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:38.400 me to get. 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.600 Into it about the fish? Yes? 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.440 You know. I was started practicing sixty four of my 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.760 own I'd worked on shopping centers with groon and stuff 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:54.320 like that. I got some houses to do. I did 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:59.520 some small buildings. Uh. And I got to know Peter 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:09.520 Eisen and your husband, and Norman Foster and Michael Graves 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:15.199 and Charlie Moore, and I wasn't a big force in architecture, 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.320 but I was. They sort of paid attention. I was 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.000 doing enough stuff they paid attention. From the very beginning, 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.640 I hung out with the artists because I always thought 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.960 of architecture as an art and I thought they were 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.800 coming around to my buildings and looking at my stuff 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:39.560 and inviting me for dinner. And the artists, the artists 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:49.199 in la ed Ed Moses, Billy, Albankston, John Alton, Peter Alexander, 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.839 a lot of people, you know, became close friends. And 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.280 I would go to their shows and they would come 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:01.920 to my At a point, Arthur Drexler do you remember 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:06.280 who that is? He was the architecture guy at MoMA 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:12.760 did a show called boz Art and it was at 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:13.959 sixty sixty. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:14.640 I think. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.440 Everybody went to that show. I went to it. It 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.120 was a knockout. The Bose Art buildings, the models they 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:29.400 showed were so seductive, it was incredible everybody. It was 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.120 after that show that Philip put the top on at 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.640 and t Bright as a director at that show, and 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.760 Graves came out and Stern came out and they all okay, 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:47.280 so postmodernism became the Siren Song. And I remember I 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:53.120 was at a and I couldn't buy it. I wasn't 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.080 buying it, but I thought there was more to life 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.960 than copying the past. So I was at a conference 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.839 with a lot of those guys and I can't remember where, 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:08.080 and when my turn came to talk, which I never 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.960 prepared talks, I would get up and just do what 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.040 I'll say what was on my mind. I looked at 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.559 them and said, what the hell is there only one 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.360 way to go backwards? Can't there isn't there something new? 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.600 Isn't there any hope for the future. I forget what 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:32.480 and I said, damn it. If if you got to 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.040 go back, I mean you can go back three hundred 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.199 million years before man to fish, I said, fish are 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:43.600 very architectural and their movement is beautiful, and they suggest 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.000 movement and it goes with cars and trains and planes 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:52.320 and stuff. So just copy that. I had no idea 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.440 why I said that. After that, I started to draw 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.000 fish on all my little drawings. I've got cups stuff 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.839 fall around with fishy. They're on those drawings too, So 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:09.199 I started playing with it. I was doing that project 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:17.439 with Klaus Oldenburg in Venicia. The sponsors were a fashion 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:22.559 house in Florence asked me to do a fish sculpture 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.960 for their show, and so I went to China Chita 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.760 and did a drawing and they made it. I never 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.480 saw it. In Turino, they were just getting ready to 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:41.679 open the the Costello de Rivoli as a museum and 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.600 they had their first show and they invited me to 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.040 be in the first show, and so they gave me 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.160 two galleries. In one gallery, I put all my models 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.440 and they said they had something for the other gallery. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.840 They didn't tell me. What I walked in the other 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.880 gallery was this wooden fish made for the fashion show. 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.120 It's the biggest piece of kitsch I've ever seen. It 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.000 was so embarrassing. I stood beside it was just freaked 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.120 out that they were making this part of my show. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.520 And standing beside me was a guy from the Stedlic 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:22.000 Museum who had spoken ill of my work many times before. 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.080 He's standing beside me and he said, how'd you do that? 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.400 And I said, what do you mean? She said, how'd 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.040 you do it? I want to talk to you. Then 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.680 I realized what he was talking about. The thing looked 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:41.480 like it was moving, This piece of egregious kitch had 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.800 the movement that a fish has. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.640 And how they had made it in that way. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:47.480 They didn't know. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.400 I didn't know. It was just an accident. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.680 This guy said, that's brilliant. How did you do that? 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.720 I said, it's pure, you know, I said, I told him, well, 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:58.920 I was interested in the fish because of movement. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.960 So what do you think that relates to the carp 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:03.760 in the bathtub? 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:05.480 I don't know. 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:11.880 Maybe maybe that a psychiatrist that image of the car, 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:14.240 but I. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:20.120 Think that the next thing I did was a show 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.680 at the walker and I cut the tail off the fish, 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.760 the head off the fish, and I made an abstract 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.440 and it's still moved, it still had the sense of movement. 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.480 And that's when I got hooked, hooked on the shape 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:40.440 shaping and using that to express to express. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.760 An Yeah, the image of so that I think. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:16:02.680 That experience made made Bill bow. I'd love the food, and. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.200 Let's talk about that because San Sebastian, which is right 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.560 next to Bilbao, is a mecca for food. People go there. 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.880 The chefs are really interesting. So what when you say 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.840 you love the food of Bilbao, tell me about it. 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.320 It's the cod fish. What do they call it. 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.160 Yeah, the bacola, baccala bala. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:26.040 Yes, you know, don't you? You're a cook anyway, Baola. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.040 I love bacola and I loved the wine. 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.200 Yeah, you would go for these site meetings, and did 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:33.440 you spend a long there? 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:39.080 Bill Bell reawakened my food whatever foody I was happened 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.560 there because that's what we did. We went out to 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:48.200 restaurants with them. The wine was special because. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.320 Life that you're describing a working all day, whether you're 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:57.120 Cassavettis your friend, or actors or writers or artists in 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.280 their studios, there was a real momentum to go to 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.520 eat at the end of the day because the work 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.680 was solitary and so was that true here as well? 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:07.840 Did you go out to restaurants all the time? 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.919 And yeah, with Benny Gazar we used to go to 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.240 Italian restaurants. So we had a lot of pasta and 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.200 a lot of red wine. 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.320 And there was one that somebody told me there was 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:21.560 one in like a train. 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:27.399 Carriage, the Pacific Dining car. Is it still there downtown? 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.920 I think it's still there. It was in my neighborhood, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.160 so we used to go there because it was around 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.080 the corner from where we lived, and you could. You 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.280 didn't need a reservation, you just walk in. Yeah, and 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:44.879 it was never filled. And I mean I used to 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:49.560 see Spieler, he used to be there, and a lot 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.040 of Hollywood people, but they would come at six in 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.479 the morning for early breakfast, when nobody was there our 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:56.640 real late at night. 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.080 I think about a restaurant in a city is that, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.560 as we found out when restaurants were closed in London, 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.040 is that they do provide a social life to the 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.359 city that you can go there and see people that 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.600 you didn't know were going to be there. There's a 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.600 spontaneity about meeting a friend or sitting there. 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.399 For the Pacific Dining Car was more private. People didn't 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.760 go there to meet other people. It was the booths 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.440 were spread apart and it was never filled. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.040 So you as a kid, did you ever go out 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:29.440 to a restaurant when you were a child. 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.119 Not very much. They couldn't afford to go out. Yeah. 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.919 I do remember going to restaurants with my father in 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.359 Toronto that had signs no Jews alone. No, I do 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:47.880 remember that really, And he always knew the owner because 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.120 he was a gregarious guy. So we would go in anyway. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.600 So he would He would actually be friends with an 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.960 owner who actually had a sign on his door saying. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.640 He wasn't friendly with him, but he had he had 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.080 some kind of business relationship with him. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.960 Was your father alive to understand your success? 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:17.560 He died before my success. Now my mother did, did. 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.760 She bask in the in the glow of your success? 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.679 She tried. But when I when she died, I found 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:29.879 a box with every article. Yeah, I didn't know she 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.320 was doing that, and it was from way back. But 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.959 she always used to compare me to other people's kids, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.919 you know, like Hilda's son does. Why can't you be 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:49.359 more like that? So I got it. I had a 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:49.840 bad time. 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:52.840 I think you had a bad time, and they had 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.359 a bad time leaving your country and having a ship 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.800 stold in the middle of the ocean and living in 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.080 a city that you knew no one, And I mean 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.720 when you left your home and where did you go 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:06.840 to architecture school? 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:08.400 USC? 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:10.560 So you came to California. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:17.640 So my father lost everything, had a heart attack, had 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:24.480 to leave leave Toronto. He was penniless. His brother brought 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:29.399 him to California. My mother came, my sister came. We 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:35.159 lived in a two rooms the size of this in 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:36.560 an old building downtown. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.840 Sisters and brothers? Did you have sisters and Brothers's sister. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:44.600 I got a job as a truck driver. My father 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.400 got a job as a truck can I delivered breakfast, 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:53.280 nooks and furniture. He was a soda pop delivery. My 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:55.680 mother got a job in the Broadway, Hollywood, in the 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:00.720 candy department, and she stayed there all the way to 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.480 the end. For her, she were in the Broadway, she 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.440 ended up in the decorating department, and she was selling 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.040 draperies to Hollywood people. 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:14.680 So would she cooked? Would she come home and cook 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.320 for you? Do you remember sitting very much? Would sitting 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.080 down to a meal in your house? 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.359 I would remember, but I can't. 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:26.600 I don't remember that meals, family meals did not exciting. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:31.080 Now now everybody talks about you know how sad it 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.560 is now that we don't all gather around a table 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:37.080 every night. But for some people, quite a few people, 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:42.320 it was quite and stressful to have to sit around 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:44.679 a table with your family. That's what it was for you? 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.440 Was it because he just. 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:52.000 Had a temper and you never knew couldn't control it. 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.600 Took it out on me because he saw me as 0:21:56.600 --> 0:22:02.159 not understanding business. I was. I was the kind of 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:07.919 artsy type. Yeah, so he didn't understand that. And my 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:14.159 mother also supported that that I wasn't really interested in 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.120 I mean I was interested in going to the symphony 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:21.000 and going to art galleries, but not in things that 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:21.920 would make a living. 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.160 And some meal times for a kind of tyranny were 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:25.639 they of. 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:29.040 It was difficult. 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.679 And then when you went to architecture school and college 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:33.320 you kind offended for yourself. 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:35.399 And yeah, then I got married. 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.640 Yeah, became domestic life. 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.600 That was domestic life kind of yeah. Yeah, well this 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:43.440 was the first marriage before birship. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:48.679 When you designed the canteen, the cafeteria Forcaill New House, 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.280 did that make you think more about food or did 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.320 Was that about space? Was that where people could stop 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.480 working in the magazines and punt have a meal. 0:22:57.800 --> 0:22:59.760 I did think about food because we did the cafe 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.919 Ta Park and we had to set up where you 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:04.400 go through the line of gage. 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.160 But that's a radical canteen. I mean there's no other 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.000 space like that to have as a place to eat 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:14.240 when you're working all day. It was the hottest ticket 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.600 in New York. It was invited to that, Yeah, to lunch. 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:19.600 Everybody was trying to figure out how. 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:20.520 They were I didn't know. 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.600 Oh yeah, huge. Everybody wanted to go there, you know. 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:27.440 I remember going with Victoria, took me and people friends 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:28.919 of mine, call up friends of theirs. 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.960 Who they remodeled it. They've totally. 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:35.919 What was SI life as a client? Was he the client? 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:37.280 He was the client? 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:39.680 Did you know what he wanted? 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:45.879 Really? Did? I took him to the best thing I 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:50.080 did with Sai is I took him to Japan for 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:54.080 a week with Greg Wallace, who was my partner who 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:56.240 had spent a lot of his life in Japan. So 0:23:56.359 --> 0:24:01.480 Greg knew Japan really fantastic, and Victoria and Ci and 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:06.040 Bert and I and Greg spent a week together and 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:09.720 so I ended up in the same little cafe with 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:14.919 typical Japanese there pork noodles or something, and that's what 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.120 he ordered every day, and he wanted to go back 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:25.040 to the same restaurant every day. No. Ci. Months before 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.600 he died, I was with him in Paris for the 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:32.240 opening of the Louisy Tom building. He called me over 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:36.040 he was sitting there kind of not totally with it, 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:40.080 and he said Frank. The trip he took me on 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.760 to Japan, I think I'm going to cry, he said, 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:47.359 was one of the best ever. It was so sweet. 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:47.840 What he's in? 0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.800 Do you like sugar? Do you like sweet food? 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:00.400 Oh? 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:04.800 Boy, oh boy? What's your go to see? 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:09.359 My friend Stephanie Barron makes the greatest lemon drops and 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:12.679 I invite her to go sailing, specifically because she brings 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:13.480 the lemon drums. 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:17.800 So sailing. Yeah, so sailing. 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:18.800