1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: When I phoned Frank Garry to ask him to do 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 2: this podcast, he immediately said yes. For years, every time 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: a new Frank Gary building opened, Richard, my husband and 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: I would make a pilgrimage to visit the Disney Center 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, the Louis Vreton Foundation in Paris, the 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: Guggenheim in Bilbao, and Moore. But one summer in two 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, a spectacular Gary building came up to 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: us in Hyde Park, just ten minutes from our house. 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: It was a Serpentine pavilion, a temporary structure designed with 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: his son Sammy. For those few months, we met friends 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: there almost daily, watching the sun set, listening to people 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: play music, eating and drinking. This brave and beautiful structure 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: made Harde Park a better park and London a better city. Today, 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: I've made a pilgrimage on my own from London to 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, not to see a new Frank Gary building, 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: but to see my much loved close friend Frank. 19 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 3: Six slices of presciutto or pansetta. I really like that 20 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 3: one pheasant plucked and clean. Americans don't have. 21 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: Ye No, we don't have game. 22 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 3: They don't have pheasants Canada, but does Canada. But it's 23 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 3: a long time ago. I was in Canada. Half a 24 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: cup of olive oil. I like that. Three garlic cloves peels, yes, 25 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 3: I'm still in. Three fresh rosemary sprigs, great, five fresh 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 3: sage leaves. Great. Half a bottle of Josephine dores u. 27 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 3: It's wine. 28 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: It's a fortified sweet wine, rather like Marsala. 29 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: So you could use Marsala as well. But I love 31 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: the name Josephine Dorik or wine. 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 3: Okay, I like the name too. One hundred and seventy 33 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 3: five millimeter chicken stock, one hundred and twenty five milliiters 34 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: of heavy cream. Place the prescudo or pancetta slices over 35 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: the pheasant and tie on with a string. Heat the 36 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 3: olive oil in a saucepan and brown the pheasant on 37 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: all sides. Add the garlic and herbs. Cook over a 38 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: medium heat for about forty minutes. Adding the wine and 39 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 3: stock in stages. You do not want to boil the bird, 40 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: but braize it in the liquid. Remove the bird and 41 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: keep warm. Add the cream let it simmer and then season, 42 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: pour the juices over the pheasant and serve yum yum. 43 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: It's good, isn't it. 44 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 3: I'm shocked you didn't bring me some. 45 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: I know it's not the right season. 46 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: There I would go with this interview is. 47 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: Can you imagine me getting into customs? 48 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 3: And I've got to me it would make the interview. 49 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 3: We could do that. We can do a replay. 50 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: Okay, we'll do it. Did you ever do the cooking? 51 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: I cook mots of brye? 52 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 2: How do you? What is that? 53 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 3: On Sunday mornings and I have lots of bride bakeoffs 54 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: with people. Mats of brie is unleavened bread that the 55 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 3: Jews crusted the desert with Moses a long time ago, 56 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: and it's used for Passover. It's used mostly for Passover. 57 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 3: It's unleaven bread for Passover. I break it up underwater 58 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: and get it sort of moist. I salted and stuff, 59 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: and I take a bunch of eggs and I beat 60 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: them up and put them all over the matzabrie and 61 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: it absorbs the egg stuff and then I fry him. 62 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 3: That's called matzabrie. Okay, So I grew up with that ye, 63 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 3: what did. 64 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: You grow up? But tell me first start from the beginning. 65 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 3: Where were you born Toronto? 66 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: And where were your parents born? 67 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: My mother Poland, my father New York and his father 68 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: and mother his father Russia. 69 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 2: Russia, Poland, Yeah. 70 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 3: Pince, I think my mother luds ldz. 71 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, loves And what was their story? 72 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: They came in nineteen thirteen. I think there was a 73 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 3: pogram in Poland. I found out later that the Jews 74 00:04:55,400 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: were being rounded up and beaten up. And my grandfather, 75 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: who delivered coal, he had a wagon. I went to 76 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 3: Lootch and saw where the rail tracks were and where 77 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: he was and when did you I was invited to 78 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 3: do a film festival and called the Camarade Film Festival 79 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 3: in Poland. And I went with David Lynch. David Lynch 80 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: and I went to Poland. I loved the people. And 81 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 3: I went to the city hall there and they asked 82 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,679 Speaker 3: David and I to sign our names on the wall, 83 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: and I wrote, my grandfather left in nineteen thirteen. If 84 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 3: he hadn't left, I wouldn't be here. I was immediately 85 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: called by the mayor's office and they became very solicitous. 86 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 3: They found all my grandparents' families. They all of a 87 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 3: sudden became like to show me they really loved the Jews. 88 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 3: Blah blah blah, which was a bunch of bullshit, I guess. 89 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: But so I did get a pretty deep and I 90 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 3: found out my grandmother actually ran a foundry. There was 91 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 3: folklore about it when I was growing up, but it 92 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: was true. 93 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: The grandmother did. 94 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 3: She ran a foundry in Poland. They came across on 95 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 3: a Dutch ship that got stalled mid ocean, which was 96 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 3: the reason my mother would never cross a bridge in 97 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 3: a car. She had a phobia for so she would 98 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 3: get out of the car and walk across the bridge 99 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: and meet us on the other side because of this experience. 100 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 3: As I guess she was a nine year old or 101 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 3: six year old, I don't remember, but obviously they got here. 102 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, they got to where did they learn to Canada? 103 00:06:58,520 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: Right? 104 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: And they land that in Toronto. My grandfather got a 105 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 3: horse and buggy. He was delivering bread, I think, and stuff. 106 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: They lived in a little house, tiny house that just 107 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 3: got torn down. 108 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: Did it feel like they were a very Jewish community 109 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: within me? 110 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a Jewish community. My grandfather had got 111 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 3: went on to have a hardware store, which I worked 112 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: in as a kid with him, and he's the one 113 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: that got me to read Talmud. And he wasn't religious. 114 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 3: It was interesting. He was the head of his little 115 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 3: congregation because he took the He was a business guy 116 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: and so he managed the money for them. But he 117 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: read Talmud. To me, that was interesting. You know. Talmud 118 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 3: starts with the word why. Yeah, curiosity, and curiosity is 119 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: the feeder for all all of our work, right, all 120 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 3: creativity is. 121 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: Somebody always asked me what I look for in a 122 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: new chef or anyone i'd take on it River Cafe, 123 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: and I always say, curiosity. 124 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, that's where I'm interested. 125 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: And so you were. You went to school every day. 126 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 3: And you know you look So we were in Toronto. 127 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: I went to I went to Blue Collegiate until forty 128 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: seven and then we but in between my family moved 129 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 3: to Timmins, Ontario, five hundred miles north of Toronto, and 130 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: I lived there from eight years old to thirteen years old. 131 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: So you've sort of set up a picture of what 132 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: where you were. If you were to kind of close 133 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: your eyes and remember the smells of your mother's kitchen 134 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 2: or the food in her kitchen. Can you visualize it? 135 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: What was it a big room? Was it a small kitchen? 136 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was a small kitchen. It wasn't 137 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 3: She wasn't a great cook. Okay, Yeah. My grandmother made 138 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 3: on the cook stove, made all the to gel fill 139 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 3: to fish, and I used to watch. That's why everybody 140 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 3: says I do fish sculptures because I used to go 141 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 3: pick up the live fish and put it in the bathtub, 142 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: and then at night I would I was as a kid. 143 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 3: I would play with the fish in the bathtub and 144 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 3: then the next day it was gone. 145 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: Would did you ever watch them kill the No? 146 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 3: I didn't know what happened was at home. I finally 147 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 3: figured it out. 148 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: But do you think there was? Because that is interesting 149 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 2: about why the fish? Because when did the image of 150 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: the fish begin? 151 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: You know, that's a whole other story. Do you want 152 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: me to get. 153 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: Into it about the fish? Yes? 154 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 3: You know. I was started practicing sixty four of my 155 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: own I'd worked on shopping centers with groon and stuff 156 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 3: like that. I got some houses to do. I did 157 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: some small buildings. Uh. And I got to know Peter 158 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: Eisen and your husband, and Norman Foster and Michael Graves 159 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 3: and Charlie Moore, and I wasn't a big force in architecture, 160 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 3: but I was. They sort of paid attention. I was 161 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: doing enough stuff they paid attention. From the very beginning, 162 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: I hung out with the artists because I always thought 163 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 3: of architecture as an art and I thought they were 164 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: coming around to my buildings and looking at my stuff 165 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 3: and inviting me for dinner. And the artists, the artists 166 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 3: in la ed Ed Moses, Billy, Albankston, John Alton, Peter Alexander, 167 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 3: a lot of people, you know, became close friends. And 168 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 3: I would go to their shows and they would come 169 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 3: to my At a point, Arthur Drexler do you remember 170 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 3: who that is? He was the architecture guy at MoMA 171 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 3: did a show called boz Art and it was at 172 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 3: sixty sixty. 173 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: I think. 174 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 3: Everybody went to that show. I went to it. It 175 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: was a knockout. The Bose Art buildings, the models they 176 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 3: showed were so seductive, it was incredible everybody. It was 177 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: after that show that Philip put the top on at 178 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 3: and t Bright as a director at that show, and 179 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 3: Graves came out and Stern came out and they all okay, 180 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: so postmodernism became the Siren Song. And I remember I 181 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 3: was at a and I couldn't buy it. I wasn't 182 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 3: buying it, but I thought there was more to life 183 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 3: than copying the past. So I was at a conference 184 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 3: with a lot of those guys and I can't remember where, 185 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: and when my turn came to talk, which I never 186 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 3: prepared talks, I would get up and just do what 187 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 3: I'll say what was on my mind. I looked at 188 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 3: them and said, what the hell is there only one 189 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: way to go backwards? Can't there isn't there something new? 190 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 3: Isn't there any hope for the future. I forget what 191 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: and I said, damn it. If if you got to 192 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 3: go back, I mean you can go back three hundred 193 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 3: million years before man to fish, I said, fish are 194 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 3: very architectural and their movement is beautiful, and they suggest 195 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: movement and it goes with cars and trains and planes 196 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 3: and stuff. So just copy that. I had no idea 197 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 3: why I said that. After that, I started to draw 198 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: fish on all my little drawings. I've got cups stuff 199 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 3: fall around with fishy. They're on those drawings too, So 200 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 3: I started playing with it. I was doing that project 201 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 3: with Klaus Oldenburg in Venicia. The sponsors were a fashion 202 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 3: house in Florence asked me to do a fish sculpture 203 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 3: for their show, and so I went to China Chita 204 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: and did a drawing and they made it. I never 205 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: saw it. In Turino, they were just getting ready to 206 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 3: open the the Costello de Rivoli as a museum and 207 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 3: they had their first show and they invited me to 208 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: be in the first show, and so they gave me 209 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: two galleries. In one gallery, I put all my models 210 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 3: and they said they had something for the other gallery. 211 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 3: They didn't tell me. What I walked in the other 212 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 3: gallery was this wooden fish made for the fashion show. 213 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 3: It's the biggest piece of kitsch I've ever seen. It 214 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: was so embarrassing. I stood beside it was just freaked 215 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 3: out that they were making this part of my show. 216 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 3: And standing beside me was a guy from the Stedlic 217 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 3: Museum who had spoken ill of my work many times before. 218 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: He's standing beside me and he said, how'd you do that? 219 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 3: And I said, what do you mean? She said, how'd 220 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 3: you do it? I want to talk to you. Then 221 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 3: I realized what he was talking about. The thing looked 222 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: like it was moving, This piece of egregious kitch had 223 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 3: the movement that a fish has. 224 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: And how they had made it in that way. 225 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 3: They didn't know. 226 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: I didn't know. It was just an accident. 227 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 3: This guy said, that's brilliant. How did you do that? 228 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: I said, it's pure, you know, I said, I told him, well, 229 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 3: I was interested in the fish because of movement. 230 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: So what do you think that relates to the carp 231 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: in the bathtub? 232 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 3: I don't know. 233 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that a psychiatrist that image of the car, 234 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: but I. 235 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 3: Think that the next thing I did was a show 236 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: at the walker and I cut the tail off the fish, 237 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 3: the head off the fish, and I made an abstract 238 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: and it's still moved, it still had the sense of movement. 239 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: And that's when I got hooked, hooked on the shape 240 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: shaping and using that to express to express. 241 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 2: An Yeah, the image of so that I think. 242 00:15:43,640 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 3: That experience made made Bill bow. I'd love the food, and. 243 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: Let's talk about that because San Sebastian, which is right 244 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 2: next to Bilbao, is a mecca for food. People go there. 245 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: The chefs are really interesting. So what when you say 246 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: you love the food of Bilbao, tell me about it. 247 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: It's the cod fish. What do they call it. 248 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, the bacola, baccala bala. 249 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 3: Yes, you know, don't you? You're a cook anyway, Baola. 250 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 3: I love bacola and I loved the wine. 251 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you would go for these site meetings, and did 252 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: you spend a long there? 253 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 3: Bill Bell reawakened my food whatever foody I was happened 254 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 3: there because that's what we did. We went out to 255 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: restaurants with them. The wine was special because. 256 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 2: Life that you're describing a working all day, whether you're 257 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: Cassavettis your friend, or actors or writers or artists in 258 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 2: their studios, there was a real momentum to go to 259 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: eat at the end of the day because the work 260 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: was solitary and so was that true here as well? 261 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: Did you go out to restaurants all the time? 262 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 3: And yeah, with Benny Gazar we used to go to 263 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 3: Italian restaurants. So we had a lot of pasta and 264 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 3: a lot of red wine. 265 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 2: And there was one that somebody told me there was 266 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: one in like a train. 267 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 3: Carriage, the Pacific Dining car. Is it still there downtown? 268 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 3: I think it's still there. It was in my neighborhood, 269 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 3: so we used to go there because it was around 270 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 3: the corner from where we lived, and you could. You 271 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: didn't need a reservation, you just walk in. Yeah, and 272 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 3: it was never filled. And I mean I used to 273 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 3: see Spieler, he used to be there, and a lot 274 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 3: of Hollywood people, but they would come at six in 275 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 3: the morning for early breakfast, when nobody was there our 276 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 3: real late at night. 277 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: I think about a restaurant in a city is that, 278 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: as we found out when restaurants were closed in London, 279 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: is that they do provide a social life to the 280 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: city that you can go there and see people that 281 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: you didn't know were going to be there. There's a 282 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: spontaneity about meeting a friend or sitting there. 283 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 3: For the Pacific Dining Car was more private. People didn't 284 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: go there to meet other people. It was the booths 285 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 3: were spread apart and it was never filled. 286 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 2: So you as a kid, did you ever go out 287 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 2: to a restaurant when you were a child. 288 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 3: Not very much. They couldn't afford to go out. Yeah. 289 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 3: I do remember going to restaurants with my father in 290 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: Toronto that had signs no Jews alone. No, I do 291 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 3: remember that really, And he always knew the owner because 292 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 3: he was a gregarious guy. So we would go in anyway. 293 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: So he would He would actually be friends with an 294 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: owner who actually had a sign on his door saying. 295 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 3: He wasn't friendly with him, but he had he had 296 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 3: some kind of business relationship with him. 297 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: Was your father alive to understand your success? 298 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 3: He died before my success. Now my mother did, did. 299 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: She bask in the in the glow of your success? 300 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 3: She tried. But when I when she died, I found 301 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 3: a box with every article. Yeah, I didn't know she 302 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 3: was doing that, and it was from way back. But 303 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 3: she always used to compare me to other people's kids, 304 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 3: you know, like Hilda's son does. Why can't you be 305 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 3: more like that? So I got it. I had a 306 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: bad time. 307 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 2: I think you had a bad time, and they had 308 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: a bad time leaving your country and having a ship 309 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: stold in the middle of the ocean and living in 310 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: a city that you knew no one, And I mean 311 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: when you left your home and where did you go 312 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: to architecture school? 313 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 3: USC? 314 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: So you came to California. 315 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 3: So my father lost everything, had a heart attack, had 316 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 3: to leave leave Toronto. He was penniless. His brother brought 317 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 3: him to California. My mother came, my sister came. We 318 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 3: lived in a two rooms the size of this in 319 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 3: an old building downtown. 320 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: Sisters and brothers? Did you have sisters and Brothers's sister. 321 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: I got a job as a truck driver. My father 322 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 3: got a job as a truck can I delivered breakfast, 323 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 3: nooks and furniture. He was a soda pop delivery. My 324 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 3: mother got a job in the Broadway, Hollywood, in the 325 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 3: candy department, and she stayed there all the way to 326 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: the end. For her, she were in the Broadway, she 327 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 3: ended up in the decorating department, and she was selling 328 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 3: draperies to Hollywood people. 329 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 2: So would she cooked? Would she come home and cook 330 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: for you? Do you remember sitting very much? Would sitting 331 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: down to a meal in your house? 332 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 3: I would remember, but I can't. 333 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: I don't remember that meals, family meals did not exciting. 334 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: Now now everybody talks about you know how sad it 335 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: is now that we don't all gather around a table 336 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: every night. But for some people, quite a few people, 337 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: it was quite and stressful to have to sit around 338 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 2: a table with your family. That's what it was for you? 339 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: Was it because he just. 340 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 3: Had a temper and you never knew couldn't control it. 341 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 3: Took it out on me because he saw me as 342 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 3: not understanding business. I was. I was the kind of 343 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 3: artsy type. Yeah, so he didn't understand that. And my 344 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 3: mother also supported that that I wasn't really interested in 345 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 3: I mean I was interested in going to the symphony 346 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: and going to art galleries, but not in things that 347 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 3: would make a living. 348 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 2: And some meal times for a kind of tyranny were 349 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 2: they of. 350 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 3: It was difficult. 351 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: And then when you went to architecture school and college 352 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: you kind offended for yourself. 353 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 3: And yeah, then I got married. 354 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, became domestic life. 355 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 3: That was domestic life kind of yeah. Yeah, well this 356 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 3: was the first marriage before birship. 357 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 2: When you designed the canteen, the cafeteria Forcaill New House, 358 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 2: did that make you think more about food or did 359 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: Was that about space? Was that where people could stop 360 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: working in the magazines and punt have a meal. 361 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: I did think about food because we did the cafe 362 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 3: Ta Park and we had to set up where you 363 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 3: go through the line of gage. 364 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 2: But that's a radical canteen. I mean there's no other 365 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: space like that to have as a place to eat 366 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: when you're working all day. It was the hottest ticket 367 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: in New York. It was invited to that, Yeah, to lunch. 368 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: Everybody was trying to figure out how. 369 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 3: They were I didn't know. 370 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, huge. Everybody wanted to go there, you know. 371 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 2: I remember going with Victoria, took me and people friends 372 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 2: of mine, call up friends of theirs. 373 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: Who they remodeled it. They've totally. 374 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 2: What was SI life as a client? Was he the client? 375 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 3: He was the client? 376 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: Did you know what he wanted? 377 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 3: Really? Did? I took him to the best thing I 378 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 3: did with Sai is I took him to Japan for 379 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 3: a week with Greg Wallace, who was my partner who 380 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 3: had spent a lot of his life in Japan. So 381 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 3: Greg knew Japan really fantastic, and Victoria and Ci and 382 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: Bert and I and Greg spent a week together and 383 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 3: so I ended up in the same little cafe with 384 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 3: typical Japanese there pork noodles or something, and that's what 385 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 3: he ordered every day, and he wanted to go back 386 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: to the same restaurant every day. No. Ci. Months before 387 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 3: he died, I was with him in Paris for the 388 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 3: opening of the Louisy Tom building. He called me over 389 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: he was sitting there kind of not totally with it, 390 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 3: and he said Frank. The trip he took me on 391 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 3: to Japan, I think I'm going to cry, he said, 392 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 3: was one of the best ever. It was so sweet. 393 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 3: What he's in? 394 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: Do you like sugar? Do you like sweet food? 395 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 3: Oh? 396 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: Boy, oh boy? What's your go to see? 397 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 3: My friend Stephanie Barron makes the greatest lemon drops and 398 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 3: I invite her to go sailing, specifically because she brings 399 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 3: the lemon drums. 400 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: So sailing. Yeah, so sailing. 401 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 3: Now you're talking. 402 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: And when you're on the boat, do you do you eat? 403 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 3: Do you have any we order sandwiches or something? 404 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? 405 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 3: And drink wine? 406 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: Are you interested in the wine? 407 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? I got a lot of it, but I don't. 408 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 3: One of my clients is the Southern wine spirits owner 409 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 3: from from from Vegas, and I did his little building 410 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 3: in Vegas, and so he sends us all the wine 411 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: and so I mean, I mean, I get to like 412 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 3: some of it. I pick stuff that I like him 413 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 3: and Berta likes some of it. But we're not wins. 414 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: Tequila has We've been drinking a little bit and so 415 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 3: we do tequila for dinner. 416 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: And what are the sweets apart from the lemon drops? 417 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: Do you like chocolate? Frank, Oh, yeah, me too. Is 418 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: there something that when you're feeling kind of low or 419 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 2: kind of worried that you might reach for in terms 420 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: of food? But is there something that you would say this, 421 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 2: there's a kind of sense of comfort in some pint. 422 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 3: I guess just plain pasta pasta. 423 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know? I asked this question to. 424 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 3: Everybody and they always end up with us. 425 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 2: Everybody loves a pasta. Yeah, I think it is. 426 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 3: Well, it's uh, you don't have to eat a lot 427 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 3: of it, and it's kind of filling. Yeah, and you 428 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 3: can drink some wine with it. 429 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. 430 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: And then there's some such so many varieties of pasta 431 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 3: that that gets exciting, you know. But and when you 432 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 3: go to a restaurant, an Italian restaurant, the varieties are incredible. 433 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 3: So I like to try. 434 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: Well, let's go next time I'm here. Are you going 435 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: to restaurants? 436 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: Are you avoiding them a little bit? I'm going to 437 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 3: come to the River Cafe. 438 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, Frank Garrey, you are invited to the River Cafe. Invited. 439 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: That means you don't have to pay anything. And by 440 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: the way, juice are allowed. 441 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's terrible. Well, I will be. 442 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: And also you know, food is a pleasure. 443 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 3: Yeah it is. 444 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: It's so good and it's so great thing to give 445 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: yourself and then just eat it and havept deliciously. 446 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 3: Okay. So in the morning for breakfast, I make I 447 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 3: take toast and I fry an egg and I put 448 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 3: it on the toast. That's good, and that's what I 449 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 3: have egg. 450 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: If the egg is good and the toast is good, 451 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 2: and the butter is good and it's hot, then that's 452 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: a delicious meal. But you need to put a lot 453 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: of salt and pepper on it, and you need to 454 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 2: eat it pleasure with pleasure. Yeah, no idea food is 455 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: you know, it's simple. An artist and architects and designers. 456 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 2: Everyone is part of coming out. Okay, now it's coming out. 457 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 3: It's not just the mos both that's my specialty. 458 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: All right, I'm all right, thank you. Frank what's frank 459 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 2: Berry ice cream? 460 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 3: Frank Berry ice Cream. 461 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 2: Company named an ice cream? Is that right after you? 462 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 2: Did you know that? 463 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? I saw something like that. 464 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: I think having an ice cream named after you is 465 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: pretty cool. I have to say, you know, I can 466 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: have a building named after you or. 467 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: You know, snicker doodle. 468 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: I guess Okay, Well, maybe we'll have to go get one. 469 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Look Book is now available in bookshops 470 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: and online. It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustrated 471 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: with photographs from the renowned photogher Matthew Donaldson. The book 472 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: has fifty delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a 473 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: host of River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted 474 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: for new cooks. The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for Cooks 475 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: of all ages. Ruthie's Table four is a production of 476 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 477 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 478 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.