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Speaker 1: Place your left hand on the bay Bible and race

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Speaker 1: your right hand and repeat after me. I solemnly swear

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Speaker 1: jury trying it defended, not scared this weekend in Ferguson

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Speaker 1: and around the country. It makes no sense. If it

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Speaker 1: doesn't fit, you must have quit. Judge, you are the

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Speaker 1: last line of reason in this case. Every one of

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Speaker 1: those took out all the topothis and we're sworn to

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Speaker 1: uphold of the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this

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Speaker 1: is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. Sworn is brought

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Speaker 1: Every humans being on the face of this earth wants

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Speaker 1: to know why I haven't us. Hey guys, Philip Holloway,

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Speaker 1: your host of Sworn. You're listening to part two of

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Speaker 1: the Lake of Coney murders. In the last episode, we

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Speaker 1: got the chance to talk to a reporter for the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Journal and Constitution who has covered this case for

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Speaker 1: the past three years. We also talked to an expert

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Speaker 1: in solving cold cases and Putnam County Sheriff Howard Seals,

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Speaker 1: who is still in charge of this case. Shareff. Seals

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Speaker 1: offered to open up his case files for the very

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Speaker 1: first time ever to anyone outside law enforcement, exclusively for

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Speaker 1: the Sworn podcast. So Payne Lindsay and I took a

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Speaker 1: drive out to Lake o Coney to meet with Sheriff Seals.

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Speaker 1: The first thing he did will show us a detailed

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Speaker 1: power point presentation with never before seen photographs from the

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Speaker 1: crime scene. And today we're gonna share with you what

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Speaker 1: we learned from seeing what was in those case files firsthand.

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Speaker 1: We've used this with other law enforcement agencies, only this

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Speaker 1: has never been shown to the public. We brought another

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Speaker 1: law enforcement officers to look at this scene and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that to get their ideas and things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: So this is the first time anybody outside of law

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Speaker 1: enforcement's ever seen that. This is the Derman residence on

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Speaker 1: Caroline Drive and the Great Waters section of Reynolds Plantation

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Speaker 1: here in Putnam County, out on Lake o'coney. This is

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Speaker 1: the mailbox on the entrance to the house. This house really,

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Speaker 1: as you can see, ken't be seen from the street

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Speaker 1: very much other than the view of the garage basically

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Speaker 1: from the end of the cul de sac. It sits

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Speaker 1: at the back of a cove. It was really secluded.

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Speaker 1: It was at the end of a cul de sac.

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Speaker 1: There was a neighbor only on one side. It was

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Speaker 1: a fairly normal house, and there really wasn't anything about

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Speaker 1: the residents itself that caused it to stand out. This

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Speaker 1: is a walkway from the house down to the dock

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Speaker 1: and the lake itself. When were these pictures taken? These

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Speaker 1: twictures are taken the day of the day the bodies

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Speaker 1: were discovered, which was the Tuesday. We think this happened

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Speaker 1: on about Saturday, made the third or fourth of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen. The bodies were discovered the following Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: and so these photographs were taken the day of the

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Speaker 1: bodies were discovered. This doormat was originally of interest to us,

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Speaker 1: and that staying there was obviously of interest to us,

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Speaker 1: but it turned out not to be looks reddish in color,

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Speaker 1: but it's not. It's not blood and the people who

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Speaker 1: found them were on the ports there when we drove up.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't founder. These are two friends. So there's another couple

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Speaker 1: of married couple that were contemporaries of theirs. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they were quite as old as the Dermans. The

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Speaker 1: Dermans were Mr. Derman was his wife was seven. This

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Speaker 1: is a Kentucktive derby party that was within the gates

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Speaker 1: of this community and they didn't show up, and one

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Speaker 1: of the couples who were friends of them called over

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Speaker 1: there to you know, see if they were okay. And

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Speaker 1: then they didn't live right next door, but they only

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Speaker 1: lived two miles away, I guess at the most. And

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Speaker 1: they didn't answer the phone, you know, And then they

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Speaker 1: called back on Monday. A couple of times they didn't

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Speaker 1: answer the phone, and then on Tuesday morning they decided

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Speaker 1: they'd ride over there. And so they were on the

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Speaker 1: porch and they had gone in the kitchen door which

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Speaker 1: off that screen porch, which was not locked. They walked

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Speaker 1: into the house. They were familiar with the home, and

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Speaker 1: they went and opened the door from the kitchen into

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Speaker 1: the garage. Look saw both cars were there. Mr Durbin

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Speaker 1: drove a Lincoln town Car, older model Lincoln town car,

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Speaker 1: and his wife had Alexis suv. Saw both the cars there.

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Speaker 1: Soon they were there and then went around inside the house,

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Speaker 1: walked all through the house looking for him, didn't find

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Speaker 1: and then eventually the man walked down into the garage.

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Speaker 1: The garage is a little lower about three steps down

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Speaker 1: from the kitchen. This is literally as it was, and

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Speaker 1: if you were to have opened the front of the garage.

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Speaker 1: Would you have been able to see Mr Dermot Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: Did it look like anybody had been through the rest

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Speaker 1: of the house. No, it did not. There was no

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Speaker 1: The house to a great extent looked almost staged. As

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Speaker 1: you will see we're looking at now a picture or

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Speaker 1: a closer picture of the dock. Was there anything like

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Speaker 1: blood on the dock or any trace evidence that you're

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Speaker 1: able to find. No. Absolutely, canaver dogs brought in or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. Ever, dogs were brought in. We searched

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Speaker 1: that cove. We were brought in the most sophisticated equipment

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Speaker 1: we could get for viewing on the bottom of the lake,

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Speaker 1: and we searched this cove extensively. This cove, we looked

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Speaker 1: at every inch of it. We drug it initially. If

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about with drag hooks. As

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Speaker 1: a former police officer and prosecutor and criminal lawyer, I've

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Speaker 1: made a living out of reviewing police workings. SHEF. Sills

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Speaker 1: really did seem to have covered all of his bases.

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Speaker 1: He scoured the entire surrounding lake and the cove outside

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Speaker 1: the Dermans residence. They brought in cadaver dogs. They even

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Speaker 1: traced Mr Derman's last steps right down to his grocery

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Speaker 1: list for the day. We know exactly what time he

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Speaker 1: went into the grocery store. I've got video of him

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Speaker 1: going into the grocery store. I know exactly what time

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Speaker 1: he got those prescriptions. I got video of him. But there,

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Speaker 1: I know exactly what time he went to the bank,

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Speaker 1: and have video and there. The last time anybody saw

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Speaker 1: them for sure was on Thursday, Thursday afternoon, he went

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Speaker 1: to the bank, He went to Public's, got those prescriptions filled,

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Speaker 1: got a loaf of bread and some cucumbers. They had

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Speaker 1: alarm system that was functional, but obviously there was no

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Speaker 1: alarm that went on at the time that the larm

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Speaker 1: was not activated at this time. That's when you walk

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Speaker 1: into their kitchen and right for s area, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what you see. It looks like really just anybody's garden variety,

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Speaker 1: living room, kitchen area. It reminds me a lot of

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Speaker 1: like my house. Would. I see some newspapers out on

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Speaker 1: the counters, and that's the local eating and paper right there.

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Speaker 1: Pieces of mail on the other counter. There was some

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Speaker 1: mail that wasn't to be mailed on Netflix. Those medications

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Speaker 1: you see on the counter. Mrs Derman was scheduled to

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Speaker 1: have cataract surgery the next Weekursday was the last time

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Speaker 1: he was seen, and he was found on a Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Tell us what happens to a human body if it's

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Speaker 1: dead for four days, Well, the decomposition begins immediately. Now,

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Speaker 1: we were, in some respects we were fortunate in this

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Speaker 1: situation because that garage is air conditioned and climate controls,

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Speaker 1: so we didn't have the same level of decomposition we

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Speaker 1: would have had if it had not been. Did that

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Speaker 1: help you determine with any degree of accuracy how long

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Speaker 1: they had been dead before they were discovered. It was

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Speaker 1: consistent with the time frame we believe they were killed.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this happened on Saturday. We have reasons

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Speaker 1: for that one. There was some email on that laptop

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Speaker 1: that was sent. We know what time it was sent

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Speaker 1: on Friday, and Mrs Dermot had completed You'll see it

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Speaker 1: later in one of the other slides. She had completed

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Speaker 1: the crossword puzzle in the USA Today newspaper. Now the

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Speaker 1: Saturday us A newspaper actually comes on Friday, Friday afternoon,

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Speaker 1: and her family says she normally did it in the morning.

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Speaker 1: Decomposition the newspaper email on the laptop. All of those things,

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Speaker 1: narrator winded down pretty much to Friday or Saturday. Despite

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Speaker 1: the lack of traceable forensic evidence other than the headless

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Speaker 1: body of Mr Dermott, she Our Sills was able to

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Speaker 1: determine that the approximate time of his death was Saturday,

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Speaker 1: May the third. But here's the thing to remember. The

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Speaker 1: Putnam County Sheriff's office did not receive any nine one

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Speaker 1: one call about this until Tuesday, May the sixth, that's

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Speaker 1: three days later. That door, if you go kitchen, that

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Speaker 1: door there that you see open, that was not open

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Speaker 1: when the people found them. They left it open when

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Speaker 1: they discovered the body. So that brings up a point

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Speaker 1: that I want to talk about. We try to protect

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Speaker 1: crime scenes from people entering and leaving crime scenes. In

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Speaker 1: this situation, before you were able to secure the crime scene,

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Speaker 1: there was at least some degree of contamination in this

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Speaker 1: particular crime scene. There was so little things disturbed here,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about, things like that that

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Speaker 1: the fact that they had walked out there did not

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Speaker 1: jeopardize anything much from a forensic standpoint. We put enough

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Speaker 1: fingerprint potton in that house to fill the back of

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Speaker 1: a pickup truck and contrary to what people think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, my forties, replush your career, you know, make cases.

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Speaker 1: I saw with the finger print one. Trust me, we

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Speaker 1: pulled a lot of prints, but as far as identifiable print,

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Speaker 1: our no, it's quality print, no, sir. You know these

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Speaker 1: people were wealthy but frugal. If your back up one.

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Speaker 1: They were using two thousand and three calendars for notes.

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Speaker 1: Since we're narrating this, this is a like a three

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Speaker 1: ring or two rings sort of flipped calendar. It's it's

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Speaker 1: two thousand three and it's the data on it's January.

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Speaker 1: So we're now in and they're using this old calendar

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Speaker 1: to write themselves notes. This has a person's name and

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Speaker 1: the phone number on it. We noticed small notes that

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Speaker 1: they had written to one another as reminders of things

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Speaker 1: that they were gonna do. One thing stood out, and

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Speaker 1: that was a man's name and a man's phone number.

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Speaker 1: As it turned out, that name and number belonged to

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Speaker 1: a concrete tractor. Mr Dermot had planned on fixing a

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Speaker 1: crack in their driveway, but he never got the chance

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Speaker 1: to call the man. Sheriff still said that the concrete

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Speaker 1: man had been interviewed and subsequently vetted and was ruled out.

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Speaker 1: As you can see the house, it is just it's

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Speaker 1: macumaculate in every way. Nothing is disturbed in any manner.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't a single thing that seemed to be out

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Speaker 1: of place at all. Just look at I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just immaculate. There was money in the credit cards, money

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Speaker 1: in the person. Any evidence of anything being stolen, not

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Speaker 1: that we know of. You know, there's a nice watch

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Speaker 1: laying there, like a Rolex or something. There are rolex

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Speaker 1: is there. The closets are immaculate. Uh, this is going

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Speaker 1: down the stairs. Now. This is the den area on

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Speaker 1: the ground floor. Huge liquor cabinet full of all kinds

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Speaker 1: of whiskey. If this was simply a burglary gone wrong,

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Speaker 1: you would think there would be some signs of a

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Speaker 1: disturbance and of course some stolen property. We saw jewelry,

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Speaker 1: we saw expensive things just laying around. There were rolex

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Speaker 1: watches there, but nothing seemed to have been taken. They

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Speaker 1: led a very simple life, actually a very simple life

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Speaker 1: all things considered. She played bridge in the local bridge club.

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Speaker 1: They went to a nondenominational community church. We had yet

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Speaker 1: to see any signs of a struggle or even a

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Speaker 1: murder for that matter. But as pictures of the Derman's

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Speaker 1: garage began to appear on the screen, I could tell

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Speaker 1: this was getting more ominous, and share Sells prepared us

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Speaker 1: for what was about to come. The garage was a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a lower level, and so when the

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Speaker 1: people who found them, when they first opened that door,

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Speaker 1: that's what they saw, which is nothing. You see the

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Speaker 1: two cars, and you see the garage's doors closed. The

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Speaker 1: cars looked very clean. It's a hell of a lot

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Speaker 1: cleaner than my garage is in my house. When the

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Speaker 1: man he found Mr Derman's body, when he saw that,

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Speaker 1: he walks on down and as you will see, this

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Speaker 1: is what you'd see. Oh my, this is I just

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Speaker 1: I'm speechless. When I walked back there and I saw

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Speaker 1: that body there, and then I didn't see the head.

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Speaker 1: I was scared that I was gonna be sitting there

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Speaker 1: three years later, not knowing who did this. Thousands of

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00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 1: people seeking home security get ripped off each and every day,

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Speaker 1: and the home security industry wants you to believe that

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Speaker 1: there trying to scare you into signing one of their

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Speaker 1: long term contracts. You get stuck writing huge checks month

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Speaker 1: So what we're seeing here from from my perspective is

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Speaker 1: a corpse. I see a a short sleeved shirt, looks

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Speaker 1: like cotton. Uh, it looks like short pants with a

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Speaker 1: design on them, barefoot. I see no head. I see

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Speaker 1: that it is not exactly a a sever wound, as

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Speaker 1: if you would expect someone to have been executed with

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Speaker 1: like a guillotine style. It looks more like of uh,

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Speaker 1: something that was taken off in a much more crude manner.

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Speaker 1: I see some towels laying to the side of the

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Speaker 1: left arm, and I see lots of blood and dried

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Speaker 1: blood what appears to be dried blood. Uh around the body.

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Speaker 1: It looks like the body maybe laying on top of

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Speaker 1: a bathrobe. Is that, right, sheriff? And I see off

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Speaker 1: to the right, is that a pair of shoes or

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Speaker 1: flip flops, slippers slippers? Looks like the right foot has

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Speaker 1: been dragged through a pool of blood for maybe a

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Speaker 1: foot or so foot in a half. And it's very

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Speaker 1: obvious from looking at this picture that that is not

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Speaker 1: where he died. And the towels off to the left

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00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: looked like they appeared to be there for maybe the

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Speaker 1: purpose of keeping the blood from flowing out underneath the

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Speaker 1: garage door. That it was clear to me that's what

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Speaker 1: it was, because you can see the way the blood

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Speaker 1: when it came out of the body as it drained

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Speaker 1: out there. Uh it Uh, they thought that it would

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Speaker 1: go underneath the door and would be exposed. I think

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Speaker 1: at some point in time, maybe the body was propped

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Speaker 1: up against that car, fell back against the dropped against

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Speaker 1: that car. I see here now we're looking behind the

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Speaker 1: link in which was his car, and this, this is

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00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 1: a few feet away from the body. It looks like

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Speaker 1: a um pool of blood there that's, you know, roughly

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Speaker 1: the size of a head, and it looks like maybe

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00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 1: a head was placed there and blood drained out of it.

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Speaker 1: It's bigger, it's bigger than a head. But something light

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Speaker 1: that was put there on the floor. Obviously it was

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Speaker 1: uh you'll see these other blood spots that don't they

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Speaker 1: don't have tails. Because of the condition of the blood

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00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,400
Speaker 1: surrounding Mr. Dermot's body in the garage, it was apparent

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Speaker 1: that he was decapitated after he died. And the reason

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00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 1: we know that is because if you sever someone's head,

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Speaker 1: you're going to sever some major arteries that go to

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Speaker 1: the brain, and when the heart's beating, it will literally

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Speaker 1: spurt blood for several feet away from where the arteries

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Speaker 1: are severed. If he'd have been alive, it would have

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Speaker 1: been like a garden hose. I mean, I've seen hogs.

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Speaker 1: I mean I've seen animals flattered, and it's quite quite

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Speaker 1: dramatic and that's not present. You see. It was a

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00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 1: very neat cut around the neck, almost like they used

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00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 1: the T shirt as a guide. There was no such

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00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,679
Speaker 1: arterial spurting evident whatsoever. It was just like blood was

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00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: simply draining out, as if water from a bathtub. After

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Speaker 1: looking at these gruesome and savage pictures of Mr Derman's

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Speaker 1: headless body, the sheriff showed us Mrs Derman's body. This

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Speaker 1: is Mrs Derman's body, as I just literally picked that

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00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: body up and put it on the front of that

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00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 1: but personally, well sure who else would. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: she had been missing for ten days. Ten days after

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Speaker 1: Mr Dermant's body was discovered, two fishermen found her floating

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Speaker 1: in the lake about six miles away. I already had

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Speaker 1: my patrol boat, was already out there. I got this

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00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: boat from the n R because I had a low

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00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: free board, if you know, on tomback, because I knew

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Speaker 1: I had to pull this body up and I needed

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Speaker 1: something as low as I could get to. Uh. And

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00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 1: there's Ms Derman's body, fully closed, typical attire, shoes on shoes,

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00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,199
Speaker 1: tied legatures around the feet right that's where it was tied.

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Speaker 1: And that miss bag you see to the right contained

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Speaker 1: two thirty pound concrete blocks. Whoever did this had tied

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00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: cement blocks around her legs. They had tied her feet together,

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Speaker 1: and she sunk to the bottom of the lake in

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Speaker 1: about sixty ft of water. The body came up, faced

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Speaker 1: down and lodged up against one of these trees, so

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00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 1: it actually caught on it like this. Up until this

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Speaker 1: point in time, I was working under the likely assumption

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Speaker 1: that Mrs Dermott had been abducted. Now, one of two

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00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: things happened up until this time Ms Derman had been abducted,

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Speaker 1: that's what we thought. Or number two, um Miss Derman

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Speaker 1: was a party to the crime and killing her husband.

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Speaker 1: Now that was highly unlikely, given their length of marriage

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00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: and a age and things like that. I was pretty

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00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: confident that eighty seven year old woman didn't cut that

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Speaker 1: man's head off. But she wasn't anywhere to be found.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that our purse, their car was there,

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00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, we we were, we were very aggressively.

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Speaker 1: We had our picture on billboards, electronic billboards all over

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Speaker 1: the country, UH lookouts and things like that, uh looking

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Speaker 1: for her, working her working at as at least when

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00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: this we stopped that investigation. We stopped what we were doing,

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Speaker 1: and now we're back to not thinking the perpetrator has her.

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Speaker 1: Whoever sent her to the bottom of the lake clearly

348
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: didn't think she would ever come up, but she did.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that she did is that when the

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00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: human body decomposes, the cells began to release gases, and

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00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: the gases build up underneath the skin and the body

352
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: becomes bloated. It looks like a large balloon, and eventually,

353
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Speaker 1: even with sixty pounds of weight, the body will rise.

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Speaker 1: I'm fairly confident that her body was disposed of by water.

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Speaker 1: The location where it was disposed of, where it was recovered,

356
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 1: you couldn't get to it by land, and there was

357
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: no bridge or anything. She had had radical masectomy, and

358
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 1: she had a prosthetic breasts. All of that was on.

359
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: She was fully clothed, She had dressed for her day.

360
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,360
Speaker 1: She had on a shirt, she had pants, her shoes,

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Speaker 1: Her shoes were tied. She had clearly dressed for her day,

362
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: and whatever happened to her was clearly something that she

363
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting. When you put all this together, what it

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00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: tells us is that at the time of the murder,

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00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: Mrs Derman was likely awake and that this did not

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00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: happen in the middle of the night, but it likely

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00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: happened during the day. Tell me this, Sheriff. Do we

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00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: know if Ms Derman was alive when she was put

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00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: in the lake? She was? How do we know that

370
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: pathological certainty? There's no She did not die as a

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00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: result of drowning. How did she die results of trauma?

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00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: Blunt force trauma to the head. One other key thing

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00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: to understand about Mrs Derman is that she did not

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00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: die from drowning. We saw photographs that are seared in

375
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: my brain forever. She suffered multiple deep blows from a

376
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: blunt instrument to her head. Two things going on here,

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00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: and that's why that's why I've always thought there's certainly

378
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: more than one person. We got two different scenes going

379
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: on there some sort of way. I wanted to go

380
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: ahead and introduce you to the new Sleep Number three

381
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: sixty smart bed, just like my friends that Sleep number

382
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: have recently introduced me to it. This is one amazing

383
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Speaker 1: bed and I can't tell you how easy the in

384
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: story experience was. Just like all their Sleep number beds.

385
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: The Sleep Number three sixty lets you choose what your

386
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: ideal firmness and support is on each side of the bed.

387
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: The bed senses your every move throughout the night, and

388
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: it automatically adjusts to you so that you stay sleeping

389
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: comfortable throughout the night. Of course, it's easy to understand

390
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: why owners recommend Sleep Number. Their beds cost about the

391
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: same as a traditional mattress, and they last twice as long.

392
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: Now that's just smart. I can't wait to find out

393
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: what my sleep number setting is going to be, and

394
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: I can't wait to find out how much more my

395
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: sleep number i Q is going to go up. Visit

396
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: sleep number dot com. Of course, you can also go

397
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Speaker 1: to any one of the five and fifty sleep number

398
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Speaker 1: stores nationwide. But if you go to sleep number dot com,

399
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: you can find that store near you and go in

400
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: and ask them not only about the sleep Number three

401
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,479
Speaker 1: sixty smart bed, but about forty eight month financing, and

402
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: be sure, by the way, to tell them that I

403
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: sent you. Philip Holloway from Sworn. There seems to be

404
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: at least two different things going on here, two separate

405
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: murders and their bodies in different places. The sheriff seemed

406
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: very confident that there was more than one person involved

407
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: in these murders, and I agree with him. After the

408
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 1: sheriff showed us this PowerPoint presentation, which was a broad overview,

409
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: we stepped back into his office for a little while

410
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: and he shared some more candid thoughts on what kind

411
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: of person or persons was responsible for these murders. The

412
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: professional killer will come in your house with a twenty

413
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: two or twenty two man and shoots you dead. Leave.

414
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: They're not gonna cut your damn head. All. There's more

415
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: than one person here. You see what I'm saying. There's more.

416
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: There's there's more than one. I think it's more two.

417
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: Every humans being on the face of this earth wants

418
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: to know why I haven't saw. The Great Waters community,

419
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: where the Dermans lived, is a fairly affluent and wealthy neighborhood.

420
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: To get inside, you have to go through a gate

421
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: where you're greeted by an attendant. Unless you have some

422
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: business being there or you're a resident yourself. You can't

423
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: simply stroll into this neighborhood. Unfortunately, during the time of

424
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: these murders, the security cameras at the front gate were

425
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: not working. Apparently a recent lightning storm fried the computers

426
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: just a few days before the murders. There had been

427
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: a storm eighteen days or twenty eight days earlier, I

428
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: can't remember. There had been a storm. When you went

429
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: into the guard check it was one of those situations

430
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: where you saw it on the wall, you know, but

431
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: it had recorded, and it had recorded since the day

432
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: of that storm. Next up, Sheriff Sells offered to drive

433
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: us out to the derman's property in the Great Waters

434
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: community of Lake o'coney. So we piled in his truck

435
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: and we headed towards the lake Yea and he knows

436
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: a lot of people hello today. During the car ride

437
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: share off, Seals opened up a little more with us

438
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: and he shared more details about this crime. If the

439
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: head was taken to the high evidence share, what kind

440
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: of evidence could potentially be ben or on that head.

441
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: If you're a fight and you're hitting somebody, your hands,

442
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: they're gonna get cut. If that's just a fact, and

443
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: so you know, maybe your blood's on that person's head,

444
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, or maybe you shot him. Maybe there's a bullet,

445
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 1: Maybe you've got some weird odd gun that not many up.

446
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: Talked to Georgia Power, talked to Hydraulo just at the

447
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: University of Georgia. Everybody said that that body wouldn't have

448
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: moved once you started coming up more than a hundred

449
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: yards or so. After having multiple experts throughout the world

450
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: weigh in on the conditions of the lake, the water's

451
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: current hydrologists, they determined that her body could not have

452
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,719
Speaker 1: floated downstream for five and a half or six miles.

453
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: So this means that whoever disposed of Mrs Dermant's body,

454
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: they did so by way of a boat the Great Waters.

455
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: They we're coming up on a man guarden house share Seals,

456
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: thank you. This is a very planned community. Even though

457
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: Sheriff Seals is left with few leads in this case,

458
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: there is one vital piece of information that he had

459
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: been holding back from the public for a while, and

460
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: I witnessed account. Do you think who they saw is

461
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: involved in this? And that was in broad dayline. I do.

462
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: A neighbor happened to see a white male walking around

463
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: the Derman's property during the day on Saturday, and that

464
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: was the day that the Dermans were likely murdered. Give

465
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: him the publicity that surrounded this case, anyone who was

466
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: there for a legitimate reason would have come forward that's

467
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: the guy right there. I mean we we interviewed over

468
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: two people simultaneously here one button. I brought in twenty

469
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: FBI agents and how many detectives from maybe sixty Sheriff

470
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: Sales believes that this person is, without a doubt involved

471
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: in these murders. They he said, white pick up. There's

472
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: a long back there. You see what I'm saying. And

473
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: there's a view back in the woods. You can see

474
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: the Derman house from back there. Not clearly now. I

475
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: want to stress to you not kind of like looking

476
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: here and see this house over here, see that foliage.

477
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: If somebody was walking through there right now, you could

478
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: see them right the lady, It's like, as I said,

479
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: it's not what it's nice. What she couldn't see that

480
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: was important, you know. That made me know she was

481
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: telling the truth. I need. The key to solving this

482
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: is identifying the person to see in that yard. Certainly,

483
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: the key to solving this is I need somebody that

484
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: knows something to give me a call. I've talked to

485
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: anybody anywhere any time about this game. You've got two,

486
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: two or more people out here, in my opinion, that

487
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: committed a heinous crime, and by God, They need to

488
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: be caught, They need to be tone. To this day,

489
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: the Lake of Coney murders is by far one of

490
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: the most frustrating and perplexing unsolved murder cases in America.

491
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: The Sheriff sincerely hopes that by keeping this case alive

492
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: in the public and in the media, that someone somewhere

493
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: out there may have information and will come forward. If

494
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: anyone out there has any information about the murder of

495
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: Mr and Mrs Dermott, please contact local law enforcement or

496
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: the Putnam County Sheriff's Office at seven oh six four

497
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: eight five eight five seven. My d is gonna seek

498
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: death penalty. I can tell you that right now this

499
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: is what we do, the death penalty and Putnam again,

500
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: the Mugi judicial circuit. We know how to do with

501
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: death penalty and uh that what will be on the

502
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: table and the kicks. Sworn is produced by Tenderfoot TV

503
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Story production and sound design by Payne Lindsay.

504
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: Executive producers Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. And if you

505
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: have it yet, please check out our sister podcast, Up

506
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: and Vanished that follows the investigation into the disappearance of

507
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: Georgia High School teacher and beauty queen Tara Grinstead. Up

508
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: and Vantaged is available now on Apple Podcasts. Sworn is

509
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. If you're in the

510
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: market for podcast production, go to Resonate Recordings dot com

511
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: to get your first episode produced for free. I'd like

512
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: to give a very special thank you to Putnam County

513
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: Shriff Howard Sills, and to John Dawes, and to Christian Boone,

514
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: and last but not least, I want to thank you

515
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: the listeners for making Sworn the number one podcast on

516
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: iTunes before it was officially released. If you haven't already,

517
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: please head over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate, and

518
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: review Sworn, and make sure you check us out online

519
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: at sworn podcast dot com and follow us on social

520
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: media at Sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram. And you

521
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: can follow me your host, Philip Holloway at phil Holloway

522
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: e s Q. On Twitter shot