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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Welcome to the Buck Brief. On this episode,
Speaker 2: Jeff Tigues is with us. Jeff anchored his life as
Speaker 2: a man of warfare and a man of God. He
Speaker 2: is a Special Operations Army commander now retired. He joined
Speaker 2: the first Ranger Battalion at age eighteen, retired as a
Speaker 2: Delta Force lieutenant colonel, and he has a book out
Speaker 2: Where Have All the Heroes Gone? Jeff? First of all,
Speaker 2: it's just passed veterans. David, thank you for your service,
Speaker 2: incredible service that you gave to the country. Tell us
Speaker 2: if you will, what is Where have all the Heroes Gone?
Speaker 2: Tell us about this book?
Speaker 1: So, Buck, it's my journey of faith and how I
Speaker 1: anchored the faith of my youth as I grew into
Speaker 1: a man, and how I was able to find comfort
Speaker 1: in the heroes and the legends of the men and
Speaker 1: women that that really motivated me. And it really began
Speaker 1: this pursuit when I lived in Israel and was able
Speaker 1: to walk the terrain and look at these battlefields and
Speaker 1: look at these locations through a soldier's eyes, and it
Speaker 1: became my own personal journaling and investigation into the stories
Speaker 1: that we know, or that we think we know, or
Speaker 1: that we have forgotten over time. And that's really what
Speaker 1: the book was initially. And then I started to relate
Speaker 1: some of my own military stories and it almost became
Speaker 1: kind of cathartic to look at the things that I
Speaker 1: had read about since I was a child into a
Speaker 1: manhood and how they actually impacted my experiences as a
Speaker 1: combat soldier. So the book flips between Bible stories, things
Speaker 1: you might not know that are unique and interesting and
Speaker 1: fascinating about those stories, and then my stories as a
Speaker 1: ranger Special Forces, then ultimately Delta in the battlefields that
Speaker 1: we've been on over the last twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: Years, What can you tell us about when you're going
Speaker 2: back and thinking about it, and as I'm sure you've
Speaker 2: you've gone and spent a lot of time in reflection
Speaker 2: on your serves the country the first time, Jeff, I
Speaker 2: mean you were you were in Delta Force. You're a
Speaker 2: Delta Force commander. I mean people hear that, and there's
Speaker 2: automatically a sense of just respect and honestly awe at
Speaker 2: that accomplishment. I mean, to be at that level of
Speaker 2: elite military capability. People hear that and they pay attention.
Speaker 2: First time you were in combat? What was What was
Speaker 2: that like? I mean psychologically and emotionally.
Speaker 1: So this book started as a personal journey looking at
Speaker 1: these stories and trying to dig deeper. When I spent
Speaker 1: some time in Israel and walked the terrain and I
Speaker 1: was looking at these battlefields and where these stories happened,
Speaker 1: and looking at them through a soldier's eyes and a
Speaker 1: soldier's lens, I began to see some things that were
Speaker 1: inconsistent or things that we had lost over time. So
Speaker 1: it became a personal journey of faith. And then as
Speaker 1: I was writing the book and looking at these different stories, worries,
Speaker 1: and the deeper meanings and hidden patterns behind them, I
Speaker 1: started to relay them to my own experiences as a
Speaker 1: combat soldier. So the book lays out Bible stories that
Speaker 1: a lot of people are familiar with, some of these
Speaker 1: hidden legends and traditions that have been lost to time,
Speaker 1: and then it jumps into a story on how it
Speaker 1: relates to me. And we're talking about some of these
Speaker 1: big things like identity and betrayal and courage and passion
Speaker 1: and love and loss, and it really became a cathartic
Speaker 1: experience for me and really something I wanted to share
Speaker 1: with other people on a faith tradition. And then, you know,
Speaker 1: we still have many veterans that are feeling lost and
Speaker 1: disconnected after their time and service, and I'm hoping that
Speaker 1: this can help them maybe find a way back home
Speaker 1: to a passion and purpose and you know, either through
Speaker 1: faith or through reigniting, just things that they have picked
Speaker 1: up along the way as well.
Speaker 2: And Jeff, you mention and write about some of the
Speaker 2: historical heroes, biblical historical heroes and warriors.
Speaker 1: What makes you know?
Speaker 2: What are the characteristics because you're a Delta Force commando
Speaker 2: of a great Delta Force warrior, because that's what they are. Like,
Speaker 2: what are the psychological traits and what is the skill
Speaker 2: set for somebody to be an operator of the first
Speaker 2: class at that level?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think they would be the things people expect, right,
Speaker 1: Like you have to be physically fit, you have to
Speaker 1: be strong, you have to be courageous. U do you
Speaker 1: have to have honor? But I think what is counterintuitive
Speaker 1: to many people is a level of humility that is
Speaker 1: required and a really solid understanding of followers. You know,
Speaker 1: someday I'd like to write a book or study followership.
Speaker 1: You know, we study leadership, but followership is huge. And
Speaker 1: there's a story in the Bible. I don't even remember
Speaker 1: if I touch upon it. I think I do in
Speaker 1: the book where David says just kind of in passing
Speaker 1: that he longs for the water from the well of
Speaker 1: his youth in Bethlehem, and his mighty men risk lives
Speaker 1: to go get him a sip of water, and they
Speaker 1: bring it to him and he throws it on the ground.
Speaker 1: He refuses to drink it because he understands how what
Speaker 1: he says is so important, and he's built this trust
Speaker 1: and confidence with these men that he really has to
Speaker 1: be be careful about what he's doing as a leader.
Speaker 1: And the men and women that I have followed understood
Speaker 1: that they understood that they were servant leaders. They weren't
Speaker 1: in charge of things like some pinnacle on the top,
Speaker 1: but they were supporting every single person. And that's a
Speaker 1: heavy responsibility to carry and one that I've always cherished
Speaker 1: and look look forward to in every opportunity that I get.
Speaker 2: Now for a man of a man of God and
Speaker 2: a man of warfare. People don't generally these days think
Speaker 2: of those two things as going together. I know, obviously
Speaker 2: they can, and you're writing about some of that in
Speaker 2: the book and in the biblical context as well. But
Speaker 2: how do you when someone asks you that, If someone says,
Speaker 2: wait a second, you're a man of God, but you're
Speaker 2: a man of war, a man of warfare, or a warrior,
Speaker 2: how do those two things go together reinforce each other.
Speaker 2: Are there any conflicts that come up that you have
Speaker 2: to pray to have a better understanding.
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, I don't think so. I think there is
Speaker 1: a righteous utility of war. I'll be quite honest with you, Buck.
Speaker 1: When I was over in Afghanistan and Iraq, I definitely
Speaker 1: gravitated more towards the Old Testament. I almost I almost
Speaker 1: could relate to the Old Testament God and the and
Speaker 1: the the instructions that were given to wage war with
Speaker 1: without mercy, you know. So I did a lot of
Speaker 1: Old Testament reading, you know, and then when you jump
Speaker 1: into the New Testament and you and you hear about
Speaker 1: Yeshua and how he's looking for peace and there's a
Speaker 1: time for everything right and what we know as believers
Speaker 1: is how this ends. This ends with war again. So
Speaker 1: we have this old Testament that's just littered with war,
Speaker 1: and then we've got the new Covenant with Yeshua and
Speaker 1: this time that we're in that's supposed to be of
Speaker 1: peace and finding this this shalom throughout the war world,
Speaker 1: but all of it ends again in warfare. And I
Speaker 1: think the important thing is is really understanding your enemy.
Speaker 1: I never had hate, I never had anger towards my enemy.
Speaker 1: I recognized that we were pitted on both sides of
Speaker 1: a conflict, and they were doing what they believed in
Speaker 1: and we were doing what we believed in. And it's
Speaker 1: never been really something I've struggled with. And I think
Speaker 1: also people would be surprised in Special operations. There is
Speaker 1: definitely a majority of believers in the Rangers and in
Speaker 1: special Forces, in in Delta Force that I think people
Speaker 1: would recognize. Which makes sense. If you believe in the country,
Speaker 1: and you believe in honor, and you believe in integrity,
Speaker 1: and you're willing to put yourself under ethical and moral
Speaker 1: legal rules of organizations, it only stands to reason it's
Speaker 1: something you're already used to uncomfortable with Mike.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you a little bit about the
Speaker 2: current state of national security and the military and all that. Uh,
Speaker 2: Jeff want to ask you about that in a second here,
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Speaker 2: so your Special Forces or Delta Force Command or same
Speaker 2: thing or you know both both things are true. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you saw this, but there is a
Speaker 2: recent pull out that says a majority of American adults
Speaker 2: would not be willing to serve in the military even
Speaker 2: if the US were to enter a major war. What
Speaker 2: is going on here with the morale of the American
Speaker 2: people and the willingness outside of military ranks to consider
Speaker 2: service to the country if the country were directly threatened
Speaker 2: in a major war?
Speaker 1: Buck, I have not seen that report, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if I believe it. So here is something that
Speaker 1: I remember. So I was a young ranger. It came
Speaker 1: in the military in nineteen eighty seven, and we didn't
Speaker 1: have war. You know, we wanted war. Be careful what
Speaker 1: you asked for, right, Well, I think it was back
Speaker 1: in probably about two thousand and seven when we were
Speaker 1: in Iraq and I got in the back of a
Speaker 1: vehicle and there were a bunch of young range in
Speaker 1: this vehicle with me. I was an adult Force opera
Speaker 1: at that time, and I looked across at these young
Speaker 1: men and I marveled at the fact that they knew
Speaker 1: out of high school that they were joining the military,
Speaker 1: and they were going to go into two very unpopular
Speaker 1: wars already by two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: wars that many of us knew we weren't going to win.
Speaker 1: We just didn't have the national will to win those wars.
Speaker 1: I don't know if these young men recognize that or not,
Speaker 1: but I was awe struck on the fact that a
Speaker 1: year year and a half earlier, they were still in
Speaker 1: high school right they were playing football, they were going
Speaker 1: to homecoming games, and they joined to defend America and
Speaker 1: go to these conflicts overseas, things that seem to be
Speaker 1: hugely unpopular. So I would challenge all of that. I
Speaker 1: think there are many of patriots. I have two sons,
Speaker 1: they're twenty six and twenty three. They are not soldiers.
Speaker 1: They're entrepreneurs and artists that we've created that space out
Speaker 1: a lot of my life as a soldier. But I
Speaker 1: can guarant to you if they were needed and called upon,
Speaker 1: they would answer that call along with many of their friends.
Speaker 1: So I think we're doing way too much advertising and
Speaker 1: promoting of the people that don't believe in these old
Speaker 1: traditional values that we do. And I think there are
Speaker 1: plenty of young men and women and I have to
Speaker 1: go back and look at that report that you mentioned.
Speaker 1: You said adults, So I wonder what those ages were.
Speaker 1: I've almost lost hope for, you know, people, our age,
Speaker 1: But I still have hope for these young men and
Speaker 1: women in their twenties that have been left with so little,
Speaker 1: and they're going back to I think some of these traditions.
Speaker 1: You're beginning to see them go back to church and
Speaker 1: go back to faith, and they're trying to put their
Speaker 1: confidence in some of these things that we've kind of
Speaker 1: broken apart for them.
Speaker 2: What is your sense of the criticisms that have been
Speaker 2: leveled against a lot of the four stars, if you will,
Speaker 2: the top military brass, the Secretary of Defense for the
Speaker 2: social engineering that has gone on with the military. Does
Speaker 2: that concern you? Do you think that's overhyped? How do
Speaker 2: you view that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would take that and pile on some things buck.
Speaker 1: You know, the I think our general leadership, our natural leadership,
Speaker 1: both at the political level and military level, need to
Speaker 1: be held accountable for the things that they're responsible for.
Speaker 1: You know, when you look at Iraq and Afghanistan, I
Speaker 1: wasn't responsible for winning the wars. The guys that I
Speaker 1: worked with weren't responsible. We were responsible for winning battles,
Speaker 1: and that's what we did. And Americans won every single
Speaker 1: battle that they've been involved with, but our politicians and
Speaker 1: our higher generals lost those wars. So I find it
Speaker 1: kind of ironic that these men that failed to win
Speaker 1: wars that they were tasked with winning are now in
Speaker 1: high level positions and making money and consultants and that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So we really need to understand what
Speaker 1: that relationship is between politics and military. We need to
Speaker 1: understand almost back to this close the Witzy idea that
Speaker 1: warfare is an extension of politics, but it's not politics,
Speaker 1: and warfare in combat and winning on the battlefield is
Speaker 1: still an essential part of the way the world works.
Speaker 1: It's just like we're looking at now with Israel. You know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to influence Israel to have some sort of
Speaker 1: velvet glove approach in Gaza after they were brutally, brutally attacked.
Speaker 1: So the other day, a couple of weeks ago, I
Speaker 1: was at the New Army Museum in Virginia and I
Speaker 1: was walking through it and we were celebrating the American Army,
Speaker 1: the American military through all of these wars, and we
Speaker 1: were brutal. I mean, we won these wars because we
Speaker 1: were brutal and we outward our enemy. And then you
Speaker 1: get to Desert Storm, and then you get to the
Speaker 1: Iraq War, and you get to Afghanistan, and we suddenly
Speaker 1: stopped aging warfare. Now, it happened in Vietnam as well,
Speaker 1: so I guess that was the pivot. Warfare is an
Speaker 1: essential part of peace. It's an essential part of keeping
Speaker 1: the world stable. But we've watered it down and we've
Speaker 1: created these wars that aren't really wars. And I think
Speaker 1: we either need to decide you're going to go into
Speaker 1: a war and win it or you're going to stay
Speaker 1: out of it. And this little tiptoe dance that we've
Speaker 1: been doing since Vietnam is just not healthy for anybody.
Speaker 2: Jeff, I want to ask you to tell us where
Speaker 2: we can get the book and a few more things
Speaker 2: here in just a second.
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Speaker 2: Paradigm Research. Jeff. Tell everyone again about the book and
Speaker 2: why you think this is something that a lot of
Speaker 2: the folks at home would really would really get a
Speaker 2: lot of value from reading.
Speaker 1: So the book is called Where Have All the Heroes Gone?
Speaker 1: A pilgrimage through the Bible, the battlefield and back home again,
Speaker 1: And everything about it is encapsulated in that title. It's
Speaker 1: a pilgrimage, and I think it's a highly unique book
Speaker 1: that blends a spiritual journey. It looks at legends and
Speaker 1: traditions of old ancient scripture and then very very unique
Speaker 1: experiences that I've had from Panama as a young corporal
Speaker 1: that invasion in nineteen eighty nine. I'm hoping that people
Speaker 1: are finding a new inspiration to relook some of these
Speaker 1: old traditions, some of this old scripture. I've definitely written
Speaker 1: it for veterans, and maybe some of the things that
Speaker 1: I talk about and share they can identify with some
Speaker 1: of those frustrations we've had, some of those goals. I
Speaker 1: think it's just some really candid talk as well about
Speaker 1: things that Special Operations Forces and me specifically have endured
Speaker 1: over the last you know, a couple decades. You know
Speaker 1: it kind of I find it kind of ironic again, Buck,
Speaker 1: where people are very upset about the tactics that Hamas
Speaker 1: is using in Gaza right now, and I'm sitting here
Speaker 1: going does nobody know that that's what's been happening in
Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan for twenty years. The suicide bombers and
Speaker 1: the tunnels and hiding behind children, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Those are things that we've been overlooking. And I tell
Speaker 1: those stories. I tell the story of fronting a man
Speaker 1: who had a baby in his arms and a knife
Speaker 1: across the child's throat, threatening me that I needed to
Speaker 1: let him go. You know. I talk about these things,
Speaker 1: and again, I think it was some healing for myself.
Speaker 1: I hope it brings some healing for our other fellow veterans.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a fascinating blend for folks that
Speaker 1: aren't that familiar with the Bible or the Bible stories,
Speaker 1: or even if they are, there are some things in
Speaker 1: there that have really been lost to time. You can
Speaker 1: find the book on Amazon. It's a Kindle version. There
Speaker 1: is the cover version. There's some delay with the audio.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why the audio isn't out yet, but
Speaker 1: the audio is complete and it's my voice, so it'll
Speaker 1: be a familiar voice. And that was an interesting experience
Speaker 1: as well, not only writing the book but reading aloud
Speaker 1: for the audio. It also was all part of this
Speaker 1: journey that I really feel is some closure for me
Speaker 1: that I hope it will bring to some other people,
Speaker 1: either those that have been burned by the faith or
Speaker 1: have lost their passion for it, and those veterans also
Speaker 1: that are really looking for a new passion and purpose
Speaker 1: in life.
Speaker 2: Where have all the heroes gone?
Speaker 1: Book?
Speaker 2: Go get your copy. Jeff Tigs a hero, a humble man,
Speaker 2: a badass, a man of God. Appreciate you being here, sir.
Speaker 1: Thanks Bot, Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.