1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Body bats, but Joseph's gotten more. There are not too 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: many things in this old world that I can hold 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: forth on as an expert. But there is one area 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: that I'm very proud of, and it has absolutely nothing, 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: and I mean nothing to do with forensics. You know 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: what it is. It's being a grandparent. As a matter 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: of fact, I think that for me at least, it's 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: been one of those journeys that has been quite easy 9 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: and quite pleasurable to become an expert at There's nothing, 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: I don't think in this old world, except for maybe 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: my wife, that brings them more joy than being around 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: the grand babies. I love it. And you know the 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: problem with loving being around your grand babies is that 14 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: you always want to seem benevolent. You don't want to 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: be the one that is stern any longer those days 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: are passed for you. I love when my grandkids climb 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: up on my rat lap, and I love it when 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: they say can we go to the donut shop? Say, 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: of course, not only can we go, we can go 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: tomorrow as well. As long as you're here, will go 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: every morning, and darling, you can get anything you want. 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: That's the benefit or one of the benefits of being 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: a grandparent, but sometimes sometimes families are an absolute train wreck. 24 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: There's no denying that, and the grandparent many times has 25 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: to step in and no matter what their life was 26 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: like before with their kids, they have to take on 27 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: the mantle of once again being a parent, and many 28 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: times that ends with a brutal lesson. Now we're going 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: to talk about one such case today about a granddaughter 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: who received assistance from her grandmother along with a granddaughter's boyfriend, 31 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: and it ended in the death of a benevolent lady. 32 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: Coming to you from the beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University. 33 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm Josephcott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. I loved hanging 34 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: out at my grandma's house. Dave couldn't help it, love it. 35 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: And it's because my mother was very hard work and 36 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: she worked outside of the home, and so when I 37 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: was little, I would be with my grandmother and of 38 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: course anything I wanted, including trips to TG and why 39 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: you remember too, Yeah, I do, wow, walking up and 40 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: down La Toya. It was just part of it. I 41 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: went to the grocery every day with her. 42 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: You know, so you have the tip cool you had 43 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: the grandma, Grandpa thing going on when you were little, 44 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: so that there was a difference between mom and dad 45 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: and grandma and grandpa. I grew up the same way. 46 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: But you know what, my grandpa and I think about 47 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: this now, especially when I'm with my oldest grandson, Braylan, 48 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: because I can do things my grandfather couldn't do, but 49 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: he still looks at me like I'm an old guy, 50 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: and I don't feel like an old guy. Okay, but 51 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: today we're actually going to talk about the nightmare scenario 52 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: of grandma stepping in, as you mentioned, and becoming the 53 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: primary caregiver to a now seventeen year old daughter granddaughter. 54 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: This is a granddaughter now, not a daughter. Now. Grandma 55 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: is sixty one years old and she has been raising 56 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: her grandchild for her life. They live in the same 57 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: house and everything else. But as many teenagers want to do, 58 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: they can fall off to the side and go a 59 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: little wacky with the wrong We always loved to blame 60 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: the wrong crowd. I oftentimes wondered if I was the 61 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: ringleader of that crowd, if I was the one that 62 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: do not let her around him, you know that kind 63 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: of thing. But anyway, that is the scenario that we're 64 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: dealing with grandma raises grandchild. And I will tell you this, 65 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,559 Speaker 2: my daughter Hannah, when she had Braylin, having him very young, 66 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: she was so hyper intense about not allowing me to 67 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: be the you know, to step in and take the 68 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: place of her. You know, she wanted to make sure 69 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: it my job be the mom, it's your dad, be 70 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: the grandpa, You be the grandpa. You know she didn't. 71 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: He was two and a half three years old before 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: she even let him go to the grocery store with me. Actually, 73 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: our first trip was a home depot where he actually 74 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: went with me by himself to home depot. And I'm 75 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 2: not kidding. That's how protective she was of her motherhood 76 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: and her responsibility. Se is like, that's a rare occurrence 77 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: nowadays when some of our young people have children, they 78 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: tend to drop said child off on granny and papa. 79 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: And granny and Papa don't get experience what you and 80 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: I get to experience being granny or papa. You know, 81 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 2: that is a wonderful thing to be is you can't 82 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: beat it, man, You. 83 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: Can know you can't. I can. I can say that 84 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: I can truly die die fulfilled man in that in 85 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: that sense. It's just you know, uh, it's when we 86 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: choose to have these kids, and which is more often 87 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: than not. Uh, and you have that opportunity, but you 88 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: know when you're forced back into a role that at 89 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: some point in tom you know, you thought, well those 90 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: days are over with for me. And listen, you know, 91 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: life happens. You never know, you know what's waiting for 92 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: you around any one corner. You have to have somebody 93 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: that's going to step in as a surrogate. And listen, 94 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: I think that many times it's probably better for the 95 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: kids to be with a grandparent as opposed to being 96 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: pushed off on the state and they be fostered and 97 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: all those sort of things. And not that there's anything 98 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: wrong with foster parents, God bless them what they do. However, Listen, 99 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: it wasn't that many generations ago that the grandparents still 100 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: lived in the house with their children as they grew older, 101 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: and the grandkids would grow up around them. It's just 102 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: many times that the parents are missing. Now that element 103 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: is missing, and it's very sad and you never know 104 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: what kind of damage is going to be done. And 105 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: we've had a lot of stories like this day where 106 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: we've had grandchildren that have turned on grandparents, and they 107 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: are the grandchildren are afflicted with something, you know, who knows. 108 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: You know, there's a laundry list of things they can 109 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: be afflicted with. But unfortunately, many times these afflictions wind 110 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: up with a grandparent paying the ultimate price, which is 111 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: their life. And that's the tragedy of all of this 112 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: is that you live long in the life, you try 113 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: to be a decent person, you know, along the way, 114 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: you try to be bud benevolent right, and many times 115 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: that dog will bite your hand and rip it off. 116 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: And I think that that's probably what has in fact 117 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: happened with Tammy King here, who is the subject of 118 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: our story today. 119 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: Well, you know, in this scenario where Tammy King is 120 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: the victim, sixty one year old grandma who raises her granddaughter, 121 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: Tara King, in this story, there is no mention of 122 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: Tara King's biological mother and father. Did I spend a 123 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: little bit of time trying to find out, and I thought, 124 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: that's not the subject I blame. I blame a lot 125 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: of people for a lot of problems. Mom and dad 126 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: are usually the cause of most of them. And when 127 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: you relegate responsibility of raising your child to somebody else, 128 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: it's on you. So Karay King is the granddaughter. But 129 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: Kara King is seventeen years old. Joe, at seventeen, you're 130 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: old enough to know what's going on in your world 131 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: and what's going on around you, and you're old enough 132 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: to have a boyfriend, as Tara did. Her boyfriend is 133 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: a guy named Uriah Urick. You're Yah Urick. He's eighteen, 134 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: he's a year older than she is. And Tara King 135 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: is having problems with her grandma because Tammy King wants 136 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: Tara to go to school and finish school and Tara 137 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: just doesn't want to go doesn't want to go to school. 138 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: And by the way, she wants Uriah to be able 139 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: to spend the night at the house. He's over there 140 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: a lot. She wants him to spend the night, and 141 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: Grandma is saying, no, you need to go to school. 142 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: And he's too loud. Nor Tammy's boyfriend. She's not married, 143 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 2: she's dating. And Tammy's boyfriend said that the reason she 144 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 2: didn't particularly care for Uriah is he was too loud. 145 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: Now I don't know exactly what that means, because I'm 146 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: the loud person, so I don't know what it's you know, 147 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: loud means because I know I am. I guess if 148 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: it's worse than me, bless your heart. But that was 149 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: why Tammy didn't particularly care for your riot. I kind 150 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: of think it might have been related to consumption of 151 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: alcohol and drugs, probably drugs. 152 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there there's hints, there's hints of this, uh 153 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: throughout you know, throughout this story. Uh that there is 154 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: not just and we're not talking about somebody sitting around 155 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: smoking weed, all right, Uh, We're we're talking pretty heavy 156 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: duty serious drugs as a matter of fact. Uh, the 157 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: drug dealer for this couple, this young couple comes into 158 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: play in a story in a significant way. And uh, 159 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: you know when when whenever I hear drug dealer, you know, 160 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, yeah, that's that's the one on one 161 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: contact that they have, say, for instance, in this couple, 162 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: how many other people are potentially involved or in this 163 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: individual's grasp or or reach. And this individual is older 164 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: than them, the subjects I think here is almost Yeah, yeah, 165 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: he's up in his thirties, if I'm not mistaken, And 166 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: what kind of influence can he have, you know, because 167 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: he's actually you know, I guess he's the cool guy 168 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: in this story. And of course grandma is she wants 169 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: peace in her house. I want peace in my house. 170 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 1: I know that you want peace in your house. And 171 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: if you've got some stranger that, by the way, your 172 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: granddaughter is begging that he be allowed to come into 173 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: her home and spend the night, you know what's the 174 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: story with that? You know, why would you put that 175 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: on your grandma to make that decision. She has her 176 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: own home that she's earned. At this point in time 177 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: in her Life's sixty one years old there in Galveston, 178 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: Galson County, Texas. You know, why should she allow this 179 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: individual to have access not just to her home but 180 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: also to her granddaughter because her granddaughter is still not 181 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: of age. She's seventeen years old. So that's almost can 182 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: you imagine, Dave, that's almost like insult to injury. Not 183 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: only do I want to be involved in your granddaughter's life, 184 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: I want to be involved in her life in your 185 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: home under your roof, and I'm not going to respect you. 186 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to be loud, I'm going to do whatever 187 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: in the hell it is that I want to do. 188 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: I wonder why it was that they chose to be 189 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: at Tammy's home as opposed to this kid's home. Why 190 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: didn't they go to his house? Why was it? You 191 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: know what was so great about Tammy's house? Did his 192 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: parents or a parent, did they not allow him to 193 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: do things at his home that he thought that he 194 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: could get away with it? Tammy And I got to 195 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: tell you, Dave, this winds up. This winds up I 196 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: think the crux of the stories. It winds up in 197 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: uber violence. 198 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 2: Here you've mentioned the key players. We have sixty one 199 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: year old Tammy King, she's the victim. We have our 200 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: two suspects, Terry King, seventeen year old granddaughter and her boyfriend, 201 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: eighteen year old you're Riyah Urick. And then we have 202 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 2: thirty six year old Travis Hodge, who is the known 203 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 2: drug dealer. Okay, he's the guy that everybody knows. You 204 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 2: need meth, that's where you go guns. That's the guy. 205 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: He's your connection. So those are our players, and what 206 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: we do start with a welfare check. Neighbors hadn't seen 207 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: Tammy King for a couple of days, and they were 208 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: used to seeing King around and they didn't see her. So, hey, 209 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: you know, in a neighborhood people know what's going on 210 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: pretty much. I mean, not the ins and outs of 211 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: everybody's world. But you know, when you're used to seeing 212 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: somebody and all of a sudden you don't see them 213 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: and you don't see other activity, it does spring up that, hey, 214 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: maybe we should do something here. And so you got 215 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 2: two choices. You can go knock on the door, intrude 216 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: or Colin do welfair check, would you? And that way 217 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: police show up. We're just checking to make sure. Okay, 218 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: that's all we're doing is king. 219 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: You know. 220 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 2: A friend was concerned and that's what they did. But 221 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: when police got there, Joseph Scott Morgan, things were not good. 222 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: This welfare check turned out in the worst way possible. 223 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: They walk in the door and it's been ransacked. The 224 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 2: house is empty, there's nobody else in there. They can't 225 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: nobody's answering the Hey, you know, Sheriff's department, make yourself known. 226 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: Nobody's making themselves known, Joe, and they look around and 227 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 2: the place. You know, there's a difference between a mess 228 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: and a ransacked home. For those of us who have 229 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: been victim of a home robbery, the ransacking is different 230 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: than a mess. I had this twice in my life. 231 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: And you know, that's one of the things that we 232 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: have to contend with the scenes and people don't think 233 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: about that. There are some people that live their lives 234 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: in a state of dishevel, if you will, where you've 235 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: got crap, you know, laying all over the place. Clothes 236 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: aren't put away, they're not folded, the bed is never made, 237 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: it's in disarray. You might have clothing piled up on 238 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: a dress or somewhere, there's dirty dishes in the sink. 239 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: And for an investigator, one of the difficult things that 240 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: you have to do when you go into a dwelling 241 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: like this is try to try to understand where, you know, 242 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: what is you know normal, what's abnormal? You know, like, 243 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: is this is this the standard way in which they 244 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: conduct themselves day to day? You know? You know, do 245 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: they leave piles of dirty clothes around? Because you know, 246 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: if if you're talking about something being ransacked, most of 247 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: the time with a an individual that goes into a 248 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: home and they begin to you know, and I've seen them, 249 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: I've seen where this happens, where they'll literally destroy furniture. 250 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: I've seen draw that have been pulled off, pulled out 251 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: and tossed across the room. And you know, Dave, I 252 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: found in a couple of these cases where they're trying 253 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: to mask something. I found that many times the ransacking 254 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: goes over the top in order to paint this picture, 255 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: you know, to kind of sell it, you know what. 256 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: I wow, like, Yeah, Well, they'll they'll break items up 257 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: that probably you know, wouldn't there would be if you're 258 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: trying to imitate, say a burglary gone wrong, why would 259 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: you break furniture? You know it because it's not necessarily 260 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: like why would you break a coffee table? We'll put 261 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: it to that way, or an end table, or why 262 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: would you I've walked into one house one time where 263 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: a toilet had been torn away from the floor. Yeah, 264 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: and it's so over the top that one or two 265 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: things is going on. Either they're trying to mask what 266 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: they're doing, or this person was psychotic that went in 267 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: there and just began to you know, to try to 268 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: destroy the environment. But I think that a true pro right, 269 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: somebody that's a true professional thief, is not going to 270 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: do that. They're not going to go in if they're 271 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: going to ransack something and pull out drawers, they're only 272 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: going to do those things that are necessary for them 273 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: to get what they need. You know, so you couple 274 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: that with say, an unkempt environment, and you're a stranger 275 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: to this if you're an investigator, and that's a major 276 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: line that you have to draw to try to to 277 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: try to understand what is it that is going to 278 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: separate filth from pure evil? Now, you know, Dave, they're 279 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: My understanding is that if you were going to in 280 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: fact rob someone, tam M King would probably be at 281 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: the top of your list, because the investigation has revealed 282 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: that this is not some person that didn't have means. 283 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: She had a bounty of items inside of her house, 284 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: including Now get this, this is kind of interesting, a 285 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: sixty one year old woman, she's got rare weapons. That 286 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: was one of the things that popped up in the descriptor. 287 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: So it's one thing if you've got, you know, your 288 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: Grandpappy's old squirrel gun. But when they start talking about 289 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: rare weapons, you know, what exactly does that mean? Well, 290 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: they're not very clear about it, but rare weapons can 291 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: produce one thing other than violence, That can produce money. 292 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: Because if you have a weapon that you can sell 293 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: to somebody that might have an interest in it, and 294 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: no legitimate weapons collector is going to buy a weapon 295 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: from somebody that's a known drug dealer, and certainly not 296 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: from a teenager, because you know that you don't move around. 297 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: I've been around, I've been in the atmosphere with people 298 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: that do, in fact collect rare weapons. These are not 299 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: individuals that are kind of fly by night. They're very 300 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: thoughtful about what they do. They see this as an 301 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: investment and you're going to have to provide the necessary paperwork. 302 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: You're going to have to authenticate, and you're going to 303 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: have to go to the provenance of the weapon and 304 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: or demonstrate. You know, my lord, not only do you 305 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: have one, two, three, you've got five weapons here or 306 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: whatever the number it is. How did you come across these? 307 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: Because I've moved in these circles. I've never seen you before. 308 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: I've never seen you, And so you have somebody that 309 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: shows up with this and it's not just weapons day. 310 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: From what I understand, there was a considerable amount of 311 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: cash found at the house as well, or there was 312 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: she had been known to have a considerable amount of cash. 313 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 2: And you know that was the part that you're I'm 314 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: so glad you pointed that out, because you know, they 315 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: they can't kind of cagy in reporting on some of this. 316 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 2: Whenever the whenever reporting on an incident talks about safe 317 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 2: plural guns, safes, that indicates to me that we're past 318 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: and you've got a senior citizen. Well, sixty one is 319 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: not a senior citizen, but you've got a sixty one 320 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 2: year old woman head of the household here. It's not 321 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: like we have locked up our hunting guns, you know, 322 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 2: or our civil civil war re enactment stuff. This is 323 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 2: they're guns that are kept for a reason. So when 324 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: they use the plural of safe, that tells me that 325 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: these mean something and probably are valuable. We know there's 326 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 2: cash and jewelry that is in this house that it's 327 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 2: also being kept in safes, even referred to it as 328 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: a lock box, and things like that that are in 329 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: the home. 330 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: There was one one thing here that I wanted to 331 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: point out. We've talked about that there's evidence that the 332 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: house has been ransacked. Another term I like to use 333 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't get used enough is a term of rifling. 334 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: We hear about rifling as it goes to as it 335 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: goes to forensics, we talk about ballistics and we talk 336 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: about rifling and all that, but I love the term 337 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: of rifling. That's an old term, you know, where people 338 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: are going through papers and all that sort of stuff, 339 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: and they're rifling through it, and they'll throw things about, 340 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: and then you have ransacking, which I always think means 341 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: bigger pieces, and they're destroying them and breaking them apart. 342 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: I love language, man, as you can tell, I'm not 343 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: real good at it, but I love language. I love 344 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: listening to people that know what they're talking about when 345 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: they use good language. And I just screwed that comment up, 346 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: So there you go. You can pillary me over that. 347 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: But one thing that we don't need to get away 348 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: from here, Dave, is that Tammy when she is found 349 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: in her home, and this is a big, big piece here. 350 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: Tammy is found nude and she lives with her seventeen 351 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: year old granddaughter, and her seventeen year old granddaughter has 352 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: allowed an eighteen year old man eighteen he goes sign 353 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: up for the draft, right, babah, yeah, buddy, eighteen, he's 354 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: allowed to be in this house. Why's sixty one year 355 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: old grandma going to be naked? All right? And granted 356 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: she's covered with the sheet that's another part to this. 357 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 2: I was going to ask you for fact that she 358 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: is something interesting. 359 00:21:55,119 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that she's unclothed underneath that sheet is significant. 360 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: I've often thought two things relatively anytime, particularly females, anytime 361 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: I'd go on a scene and they're absent clothing, I 362 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: think they're being sexualized in some way. Okay, I think 363 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: that kind of goes about saying it. You you can 364 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: catch people unaware and they're not going to have clothes on. 365 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: But why else would she not have her garments on? Okay? 366 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: It can be either through sexualization or I think that 367 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: there is a bit of humiliation going on. You know. 368 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the you know, the dream that 369 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: people have where they wake up there in front of 370 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: a big crowd and are there in the midst of 371 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: a dream rather than their teaching, you know, like you 372 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: know you I've had that dream before actually, where I 373 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: was completely laid bare, you know, before a crowd of 374 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: people and I'm teaching. I'm naked, and other other than 375 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: people you know in my dream throwing up at the 376 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: view of me naked and their eyes beginning to bleed. 377 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 2: It was. 378 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: It's a scary proposition. You know, for for someone to 379 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: be in that in that in that position. So I'm wondering, 380 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: was she compelled think about this? Was she compelled to 381 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: take her clothing off? Was it used as a point 382 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: of leverage with this woman, you know, so that she 383 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: can be humiliated, debased, whatever the case might be. I 384 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: don't know if. I mean, for all, I know she sleeps, 385 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: she sleeps nude, and she happened to be awakened, you 386 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: know that. I guess that that could happen, but it 387 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: just there's something about the fact that she's new. And 388 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: then and then of course this goes to the old 389 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: uh you know that that that one bit of investigative 390 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: information we always look at, no pun intended coming up, 391 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: that the body is covered so that they cannot look 392 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: at them. And you know that that goes to things 393 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: like face covering, you know where many times because if 394 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: the person has value, if the person hang on, if 395 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: the person does not have value to you, okay, where 396 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: are you going to take the trouble? Cover the body? 397 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: They mean nothing to you. They're nothing but a means 398 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: to an end. And so you've got her lying there 399 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: on the floor completely nude. I think that that's certainly 400 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: something I know from me in practice. If I walked 401 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: into a house and I had someone who was covered 402 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: with a sheet, and I look around at the cops 403 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: that are there, the EMTs that are there, the firefighters 404 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: say hey, did you get it? Did you get a 405 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: sheet off your truck and cover the body? And they 406 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: say no, we didn't. Did the finder that came into 407 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: the house. Maybe in another case did they feel horrible 408 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: about this person being naked and they wouldn't grab a 409 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: sheet because that does happen. There's people great blankets out 410 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: of cars at car accidents, and you've got people laying 411 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: there and they don't have to be new, they'll cover 412 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: the body just out of respect. But in a home, 413 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: you've got sixty one year old female that is lying 414 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: on the floor without a stitch of clothes on her, 415 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: and someone takes a sheet and covers the body. So, 416 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, with the face covering most of the time 417 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: face covering, and also the rest of the body, you 418 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: feel shame. You feel shame for what maybe you've done. 419 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: You're familiar with the individual, they say that specific face covering, 420 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: because you know not all people you know close their 421 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: eyes and death. Matter of fact, you know, Dave, I've 422 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,239 Speaker 1: had more the deaths that I've worked, I've had more 423 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: people with their eyes open than closed over the years, 424 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: and some cases would give me, I don't know what 425 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: they call it, the willies, and I would there are 426 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: those cases and I would literally take my gloved hand 427 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: and close the eyes because I didn't want them their 428 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: eyes staring back at me. And I'm a total stranger. 429 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: How much more so if you're related to him, Dave. 430 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 2: Well, you know this case because a welfare check leads 431 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: to finding a sixty one year old woman nude in 432 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: her own bedroom on the floor with a gunshot wound 433 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: to the head. The homes ransacked, and the granddaughter who 434 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: lives in the home with her is gone. Her boyfriend 435 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 2: is also gone. So it was pretty soon that based 436 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: on physical evidence of what they had and by talking 437 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 2: to others involved, they had persons of interest within the 438 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 2: first twenty four hours. It's the grand the granddaughter and 439 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 2: her boyfriend. They already had that going on. So February 440 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: fifth they find the body. By February sixth, they're looking 441 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 2: for Tara and her boyfriend Urick. Right, So they talked 442 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 2: to and this is the interesting part of all this 443 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: because investigations work like you have the physical evidence there 444 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 2: on the scene, then you have interviews with relatives and 445 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: people friends, close to the perpetrator or the victims, all 446 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: of them. You know, you want to find out what's 447 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 2: going on. You've got a dead person. Was this person evil? 448 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 2: Was she the type of person who terrorized her granddaughter? 449 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: And you know they're trying to find out what really happened. 450 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: And what they find out is that, well, apparently the 451 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 2: eighteen year old boyfriend here, he uses methamphetamine on a 452 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 2: regular basis and has for a while. According to his stepfather, 453 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 2: he's violent, violent tendencies. And when the police will do 454 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: you think do you think he could kill? Oh? Absolutely 455 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 2: So when somebody close to he says, oh yeah, Dave 456 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: could kill without a doubt. Yeah he could have done this, 457 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 2: that immediately says, Okay, what else do we know? Well, 458 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 2: we do know that Tammy King, according to Euriyah Yurik's mother, 459 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: Kara King, hated Tammy. She hated the woman who raised her, 460 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: and that hate grew when Tammy King not allow your 461 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 2: Riyah Uric to spend the night. That was the breaking 462 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 2: point for Tara. Apparently, now I'm going to tell you 463 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: that in the mind of a teenager, some things can 464 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 2: be that breaking point. But I got a feeling, Joe, 465 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 2: there was a lot going on in that relationship with 466 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: drug sex, rock and roll. You know, you've got this 467 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 2: Bonnie and Clyde mentality. So it appears to me just 468 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: from the outside looking in, I'm thinking about the homeless 469 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: ransacked because they were trying to make it look like 470 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 2: a robbery, and because they went over the top, as 471 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: you mentioned that probably was also a tip to police, 472 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 2: going yeah, this isn't they knew right where to go 473 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: for the cash. You know, somebody knew where that lock 474 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 2: box with cash was. That had to been somebody inside. 475 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: And so we've got that going on, you know, right 476 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: off the right out of the gate. 477 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: Well here's the other thing too, I just having to 478 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: think about this just a second ago. I'm really wondering 479 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: going back to her unclosed status. Let's take this piece 480 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: by piece. We think about, Okay, Well, who would have 481 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: knowledge that she would have a large amount of cash coins, 482 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: which I think she did, oh and exotic weapons, Well, 483 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: somebody that's in her intimate circle. Well, I can't imagine 484 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: in any universe where you would give over the codes 485 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: to multiple because we're not talking about one safe, we're 486 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: talking about multiple saves and they're all open. Could that 487 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: be a point of leverage for taking her clothes off 488 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: and humiliating her. Just think about that just for a second. 489 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: You know, you take you know, strip down, strip down, 490 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: and you're you're laid naked, you know, you're bare before 491 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: the world at this point in time. We want the codes. 492 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: We want the codes. And if you're if you're so 493 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: drug addled in your mind, if you've got this kind 494 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: of demon of myth that's you know, kind of raging 495 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: through your veins in your brain, you'll say and do anything, 496 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: but this I do know. What did happen was that 497 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: not only was Tammy robbed of her life, and not 498 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: only were her possessions taken, but each one of those 499 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: possessions had a pathway indicated straight to the killer. I 500 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: can't get the smell of burning flesh out of my nose. 501 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: That is what the boyfriend, this eighteen year old Rick 502 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: had actually common and on he told someone that he 503 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: couldn't get the smell of burning flesh. I had to think. 504 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: I had to think about this because you know, I've 505 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: kind of been following this case. I've got friends that 506 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: were in the media that were at the courthouse that 507 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: were covering it, and I had to think back, was 508 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: her body burned? Well, I don't think the body was burned. 509 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: The only thing I can think of is that as 510 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: the trigger on a weapon is actuated and you're in 511 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: a closed space, you've got that propellant some people refer 512 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: to as gunpowder, but the propellant burning off and you'll 513 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: have this acrid odor that will arise in the air. 514 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: And maybe that's being associated by this individual with burning flesh. 515 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, but that smell would leandre in the 516 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: air and it was interpreted I think as flesh being 517 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: on fire. Now what we do have and you've hold 518 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: you've heard, Dave, I'm sure the term powder burns. That's 519 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: a very confusing term for many people. There is one 520 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: of the things that was really cool about, you know, 521 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: being being in the military when I was very young. 522 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: If you went out to the firing range, and I 523 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: guess they still do this, I don't know, but if 524 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: you go to the firing range. 525 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: You. 526 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: The armory will literally give you x amount of live 527 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: ammunition to go to the firing range to qualify with 528 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: and generally you're out there all day long, and at 529 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: night they do something called the mad Minute, and it 530 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in 531 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: my life. I saw it on multiple occasions, and it's 532 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: where everybody's lined up on the firing line and you've 533 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: got people out there with back in my day, the 534 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: original M sixteen's shoulder fired rifle, and they're all lying 535 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: prone on their belly and they're firing and you have 536 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: to burn up all the ammunition. You can't take it 537 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: back with you, and so you would see at night, 538 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: you'd see these these muzzles, you know, blowing out flame 539 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: out of the end of them. We had back in 540 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: my day they had M sixty still back then you 541 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: had the Maldus which was the fifty cow, and all 542 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: these weapons would be going off at the same time, 543 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: and these streaks of fire, not just the tracers going 544 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: down the rain, but you see the muzzle flashes, and 545 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: from a forensic standpoint, you understand the amount of heat 546 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: that is generated with that. So if you fire a 547 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: weapon and strike somebody with it, there is a bit 548 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: of searing that goes along with that. If the victim 549 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: is within range of that, so I don't know if 550 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: he perhaps smell this as he's pulling the trigger and 551 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: he's ending her life. There is interested One of the 552 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: reasons I've made mention of the M sixteen is that 553 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: the only caliber weapon that is really mentioned in this 554 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: story is five point five to six. Now five point 555 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: five to six is millimeter. That's actually the same round 556 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: that it's a NATO round. It's the round that most 557 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: of our weapons were platformed in. So the civilian version 558 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: of that is point two two three caliber, which that's 559 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: an Imperial measurement. So caliber is imperial five point five 560 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: to six, which is roughly the same thing is in millimeters, 561 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: So he's talking about five point five six. And Eric 562 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: also mentions the fact that are asked or ask a 563 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: question I can't remember, but he talks about the shredding, 564 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: the shredding flesh with this around what would a five 565 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: point five six do? 566 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 2: They were? He actually they were just so y'all know 567 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 2: this this case from the moment her body was found 568 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 2: until now, it has been the fastest time from a 569 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 2: from an actual murder to a trial I've ever seen. Joe. 570 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 2: This took place in February of this year of this year. 571 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: We are now only in November. We're doing this show 572 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five to hear this three years from now. 573 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 2: But we're talking months here. And at trial they were 574 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 2: sharing text messages because the prosecution wants to show, hey man, 575 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 2: this isn't something that just started as a granny slapped her, 576 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 2: you know, her granddaughter and escalated into a fight that 577 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 2: led to her death, and it was, oh my gosh, 578 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 2: what did we do? This was planned out for a 579 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 2: long time, for at least several weeks. Text messages that 580 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 2: they showed in court included exchanges between the teenage couple 581 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 2: discussing kidnapping and killing Tammy. Okay, kidnapping, not just murder Joe, 582 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 2: but they planned to kidnap and kill her and rob 583 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 2: her of all of her money and firearms, and they 584 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 2: also had plans to pretend that Tammy, the victim, was 585 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 2: abusing both of them. Prosecution pointed out a very specific 586 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 2: message Joseph Scott Morgan in an attempt to prove that 587 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 2: the murder was premeditated. The two teens wrote that they 588 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 2: had ammunition that would quote shred through skin and that 589 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 2: they planned to kill her at four. They also wrote, 590 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 2: we ride at dawn, meaning they planned to kill her 591 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 2: at four in the morning and as the sun's coming 592 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,439 Speaker 2: up there on down the road. That was their plan. 593 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 1: Well, I got to tell you, I love Ron White, 594 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: the comedian, always have, always will, and you know one 595 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 1: if he's from Texas, and he had a famous quote. 596 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: You know, you're talking about the amount of time and 597 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: of course he was talking about capital punishment when he 598 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: said this said, come to Texas and we've got an 599 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: express lane. And so you know, I was shocked too 600 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: when I read this. I was thinking, Wow, this is 601 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: this is pure. It's either Texas or Florida, one of 602 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: the two. Because the fact that this thing has been 603 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: adjudicated so quickly, it almost makes your head spend when 604 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: you look at other cases where you know that we 605 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: would cover. There's some cases out there that we that 606 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: you and I have wanted to cover, but they have 607 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: yet to be adjudicated, and they've been sitting on the 608 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,479 Speaker 1: books for three years, you know, and they have true 609 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: forensic value, you know that we would like to explore. 610 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: But those cases are out there and it just moves 611 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: at such a you know, such a slow pace. But 612 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: this thing, oh my lord, Yeah, they had all of 613 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: the electronic data. And then not to mention, these two 614 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: actually gave gave the drug dealer, this fellow, this thirty 615 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: how old is he, David? He said thirty thirty seven 616 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: years old, gave him two of the weapons that they stole, 617 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: one of which was the weapon used in the commission 618 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: of a homicide. Yep, and he's been He was subsequently 619 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: charged and convicted as well. And that was, you know, 620 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: for hindering an investigation, if I'm not mistaken. 621 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 2: Well, just to give you an idea of how people think. Okay, 622 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 2: they got to the point where we ride at dawn. Okay, 623 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 2: this romantic kind of thing they were doing. But when 624 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 2: they got to planning their getaway, they didn't really have 625 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 2: it planned. And so while they did kill and they 626 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 2: didn't have a real way of going wherever they needed 627 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 2: to go. So they contacted they contacted a number of 628 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 2: people asking and you get us to Laredo, we want 629 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 2: to go into Mexico. You know, we need to get 630 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 2: out of town. 631 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: Now. 632 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 2: When you're telling people, hey, her grandma just died and 633 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 2: we need to get out of town, you're telling them 634 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 2: right off the bat, you know something, and most people 635 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: are going to say I'm not helping. Sorry, that could 636 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 2: be trouble for me. The only person who's going into 637 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 2: that is a drug dealer. Because well, that's how much 638 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 2: money you got. I got a thousand dollars cash and 639 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 2: a couple of guns. Okay, hop in. And that's what 640 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,399 Speaker 2: they did. And when they when they stopped the drug dealer. 641 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 2: Because by the way, if you think for a minute, 642 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 2: your drug dealer is your buddy and your friend, he's not. 643 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 2: And when he gets pulled over and they find they're 644 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 2: going to find drugs on him because while he's a 645 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 2: drug dealer, they're going to find baggies on him. Because 646 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 2: while he's a drug dealer, they're going to find a 647 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: digital scale on him. Why because he's a drug dealer. 648 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,919 Speaker 2: And when they're sitting there going hey, Billy, Bob, why 649 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 2: we have all this? Well, I just gave these two 650 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 2: kids that I think kill her grandma right to Laredo. 651 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 2: Let me tell you, here's a map of where I 652 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 2: dropped them off. You know, that's how this all goes down, Joe. 653 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 2: And that's what they did. They actually they use social 654 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 2: media kill them really needed a place to stay. Before 655 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 2: anybody knew Grandma was dead. They're asking friends on social media, 656 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 2: not people they knew. Friends on social media, Hey got 657 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: a place we can crash. Why can't you state your 658 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 2: grandma's Oh, I don't know. This is just ridiculous. 659 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is absolutely ridiculous that you would go to 660 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: these great links. And we're talking about planning that appears 661 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: to have taken place over over the course of at 662 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: least over a month, Dave, where they've been contemplating this. 663 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: They had to figure out a way to get their 664 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: hands on all these valuables if they were going to 665 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: try to, you know, go see the countryside after they 666 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: ended grandma's life and to be able to sustain themselves. 667 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: But how do you get to that point and you 668 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: haven't planned planned a man or in which to get away, 669 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, go to the bus station, go the train station, 670 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: do anything that you need to do to get out, 671 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: and then walk across the border. I don't know, why 672 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: is it that you're you know, you're going to leave 673 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: this kind of a footprint behind and let everybody in 674 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: the world know this eighteen year old is actually bragging 675 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: about this. He's talking about this, and you use the 676 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: term just a few months ago this kind of romanticized 677 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 1: vision that he had. Well, now you know, his romanticized 678 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,280 Speaker 1: vision is going to take place, you know, from within 679 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: the walls of Texas State Penitentiary. I don't know if 680 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,720 Speaker 1: he's in Huntsville, but that's probably where he will wind 681 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: up if he's not there yet, And it's going to 682 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: be a long, hard road for him, you know, moving forward. 683 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: It really didn't think this out, you know. And also, 684 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: if he had a problem with meth, he's not going 685 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: to have a problem anymore because I know that you 686 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 1: can get drugs in prison. Myth might be more and 687 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,839 Speaker 1: the more difficult drugs to get, maybe he can get 688 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: his hands on it. But his life has just become 689 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: precipitously more difficult along the way. But the one thing 690 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: I know is that a grandmother who may have had problems, 691 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if she did or not, I know 692 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: that she did not deserve to wind up naked on 693 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: the floor with a five point five to six millimeter 694 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: defect in her head. She's gone any benevolence that she 695 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: might have afforded anyone else in her life, that opportunity 696 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: is now gone, and all that is left in the 697 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: wake is horror. Selfishness, and hell, I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 698 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,720 Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks.