Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth.
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is
Speaker 2: all about the choices we make and where they lead us.
Speaker 2: My guest today is pretty much incredible, a reality TV icon,
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, an actress, a mother, a wife, a voice
Speaker 2: of reason to so many, and an advocate for the
Speaker 2: LGBTQ plus community, which is amazing. You know her from
Speaker 2: multiple seasons of the Real Housewives of Orange County and
Speaker 2: our podcast Let's Talk with Heather Dubro.
Speaker 1: Here she is in front of me. Let's talk Heather Dubro.
Speaker 1: I just did your podcast. Yes, it was amazing, loved
Speaker 1: having you.
Speaker 2: If you guys didn't hear it, go over and check
Speaker 2: it out on Let's Talk with Heather Deubra.
Speaker 1: But do you say DEBRAU to b This is why
Speaker 1: they took me. When Terry and I got married, it
Speaker 1: took me like fifteen years to change my name because
Speaker 1: my name was Heather Page Can. It's a good name,
Speaker 1: that's a great and it's not even a stage. That
Speaker 1: was my name either. Page can't Ether Page Can and
Speaker 1: I meet Terry and we get married, and it looks
Speaker 1: the way it's spelled it looks like dubrow, like eyebrow,
Speaker 1: and I hated that, so I said, down, my go,
Speaker 1: if you change the spelling to like d u b
Speaker 1: r e a u X like du bleau, I'm totally in.
Speaker 1: Yeah he would know. So it took me like fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Then I finally changed it.
Speaker 2: Well, I like it dubro dubro yes, like hey bro, heybro. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the spelling really does throw me every time.
Speaker 1: I lo, that's okay.
Speaker 2: We were talking so much and we had such a
Speaker 2: great conversation, so definitely check that out. But I realized
Speaker 2: I came here thinking, oh, I'm so excited to meet her,
Speaker 2: to get to know her. It's not the first time
Speaker 2: that we've met, so embarrassing for me.
Speaker 1: Correct it was a long time, but I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: You're not mad at me about it, and now you're like,
Speaker 2: you'll just tell me and remind me.
Speaker 1: And now now I remember, Yes, we go way back, yeah,
Speaker 1: way back, like almost twenty years. It's so good. It's
Speaker 1: so good. And I did learn.
Speaker 2: I feel much closer to you now because we never
Speaker 2: sat down and had these kinds of definitely these amazing talks.
Speaker 1: So I'm really.
Speaker 2: Excited to be able to do that today with you
Speaker 2: and getting to know you. I love the woman that
Speaker 2: you are. You're You're inspirational, You're what you're doing with
Speaker 2: your platform and as an entrepreneur things that you're doing.
Speaker 2: You have your own fashion line. You've done amazing stuff
Speaker 2: with your husband too, which I love. I've always wanted
Speaker 2: to do work with my husband. He's in the restaurant world.
Speaker 2: So it's not really Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you don't have anything. Well, it's funny. I thought
Speaker 1: I married a doctor. I didn't. Really, I married like
Speaker 1: a TV star. It wasn't on my Bengo card, but
Speaker 1: I created I'd say he's my Frankenstein, I say sometimes.
Speaker 1: But you know his show Botch was really born out
Speaker 1: of Housewives really well, I mean yeah, kind of because
Speaker 1: he and Paul Nassif, who's ex wife was on Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills Housewives, and we've known them since before they got
Speaker 1: married a long time, so you know, that's really how
Speaker 1: that was born. So what that platform has done for
Speaker 1: us is you know huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, can I say something and you won't get mad
Speaker 2: at me? No, I've never watched really anywhere, yeh, don't.
Speaker 2: It's embarrassing to say at this point, because it's it's
Speaker 2: a monster.
Speaker 1: It's everywhere, It's everywhere, and I have such.
Speaker 2: Profound appreciation for it because I understand what it takes
Speaker 2: and the women, so many of the women on it
Speaker 2: are just bad ass, amazing women. But I've never watched
Speaker 2: an episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I watched like the first season of Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills because we knew Paul and Adrian, and I was like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: you know, let's watch them. So we watched like the
Speaker 1: first season, I think, and that was it. And then
Speaker 1: when I joined Orange County, I had never seen Orange County.
Speaker 1: I knew nothing about it. And so was that the
Speaker 1: second iteration of it? It was the first Orange County
Speaker 1: to the original it is. Yeah, this will be the
Speaker 1: nineteenth season of Orange County Housewives. Wow is that crazy?
Speaker 1: And I started the show when my youngest was nine
Speaker 1: months old and he just turned fourteen. You are a
Speaker 1: completely different person when you started, completely different. But I
Speaker 1: was on it and then I left and then I
Speaker 1: came back. Okay, why did you leave? I left because
Speaker 1: it had just changed and my kids were at an
Speaker 1: age where, you know, it's like sort of an awkward
Speaker 1: stage and just the universe. I've become really good at
Speaker 1: listening to the universe when they're telling me yes or no,
Speaker 1: because when I haven't listened, it hasn't gone well. And
Speaker 1: it was really time to go. So I left, and
Speaker 1: I left for four seasons, but with the pandemic it
Speaker 1: turned into five years. So when I went back to
Speaker 1: the show, it was literally ten years from the date
Speaker 1: I joined, which was, yes, a decade later, completely different person.
Speaker 1: But I came back to the show because I really
Speaker 1: thought I could use the platform to start conversations in
Speaker 1: other people's families. Because we have four kids, there are
Speaker 1: different genders, different sexualities, and all with things. And I
Speaker 1: got so many messages from kids and parents, some really
Speaker 1: wonderful and some so tragic of things that had happened
Speaker 1: in their families. And I thought, Okay, if we just
Speaker 1: put our incredibly normal family, people have something to model,
Speaker 1: they have something to look at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just did an interview, I think with today
Speaker 2: dot com about the diversity within your own family and
Speaker 2: what an impact that has had on so many by
Speaker 2: you just talking about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even just being there. So I had a
Speaker 1: friend in high school that I was friendly with. We
Speaker 1: weren't like great friends. We were friendly, and we've become
Speaker 1: very good friends later in life. And this friend told
Speaker 1: me that they, well, they're gay. And they told me
Speaker 1: that they didn't understand being gay when we were in
Speaker 1: high school because they didn't have any role models on
Speaker 1: TV or in movies, nothing to look at. And they
Speaker 1: told me that they had decided that by the time
Speaker 1: they were a senior, if things had gotten better for them,
Speaker 1: they were going to take their own lives. And I
Speaker 1: never would have thought in a million years that this
Speaker 1: incredibly confident person that I knew and now know would
Speaker 1: have ever felt that way. But it's because they just
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to say. This is who you are,
Speaker 1: it's okay, it's okay. And so I thought, I don't
Speaker 1: have to get on a soapbox. I don't have to
Speaker 1: use my children as storylines. I don't have to tell
Speaker 1: their stories for them. I don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1: We just have to be be who you are, authentic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that helps people, and it does. And I've been
Speaker 1: able to do things on the show, like through an
Speaker 1: event last year on the show for family equality and
Speaker 1: presented at the GLAD Awards this year. We're doing something
Speaker 1: with the Trevor Project and being able to do that
Speaker 1: kind of thing and using the platform for that is amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard other women say that too, that it's
Speaker 2: because of the platform that they were able to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with using the platform for fame, fortune,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever floats your boat, Like, that's totally fine.
Speaker 1: But me coming back into this situation, that's what it's
Speaker 1: been for me.
Speaker 2: I think that's such a brave choice, but not so
Speaker 2: much brave because it's just your family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just I feel like I've been given
Speaker 1: these kids for a reason. We were talking before on
Speaker 1: my podcast, like I didn't or maybe it was even
Speaker 1: before we started recording, you know, I started late. I
Speaker 1: didn't know we'd have four kids. And it's just interesting
Speaker 1: what life gives you. And then you think, why.
Speaker 2: Tell me about that though, Tell me about you were
Speaker 2: an actress full time, that was your jam, you were
Speaker 2: doing it, you were killing it, you'd been doing a
Speaker 2: lot of work, and then you had a baby.
Speaker 1: So I yes. So my last show was a show
Speaker 1: called That's Life. It was on CBS. I started the
Speaker 1: show and it was like one of the shows you
Speaker 1: and I were talking about, which is seventeen hours on set.
Speaker 1: You're up at three thirty in the morning. There's no
Speaker 1: social life. Xhausted. And I loved every second of it,
Speaker 1: every second. And that show got canceled and I was
Speaker 1: in pilot season and figuring it out. You know, We've
Speaker 1: been trying to get pregnant. We had infertility and whatever,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I need a break after going
Speaker 1: to the fertility doctor and doing all the things. How
Speaker 1: old are you thirty four? Okay, right? And so I
Speaker 1: took a little break and then we were like, fuck it,
Speaker 1: let's we're gonna do. We have to do IVF. That
Speaker 1: was the next step that they told us, because we
Speaker 1: had done all these you know, I UIs and all
Speaker 1: these other things whatever. So I put it off and
Speaker 1: then finally I go, let's do it. And of course
Speaker 1: the day I schedule, you know, to have my embryos
Speaker 1: and my eggs extracted, I think for the IVF, I
Speaker 1: get a network test and I literally went to the
Speaker 1: procedure in the morning, anesthesia not fun. Woke up from
Speaker 1: the anesthesia, took a few hours at home, put on
Speaker 1: my makeup, had a driver because I wasn't gonna drive,
Speaker 1: and went to the network test, did not get the part.
Speaker 1: I would like to tell you it's not a great ending.
Speaker 1: But the great ending is I got pregnant. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that took. And you know, it's funny because sometimes you
Speaker 1: don't even know what to wish for, you know, like
Speaker 1: you want the part, I want the baby, but you
Speaker 1: were really keeping things open. You were like, yeah, see
Speaker 1: what happens, let's roll the dice. And so I ended
Speaker 1: up getting pregnant with twins. Oh yeah, And I got
Speaker 1: pregnant with the twins, and we were living in LA
Speaker 1: and you know, the rest is sort of history.
Speaker 2: I love that you are very honest, You're a very
Speaker 2: straight shooter, and you have good advice, Like I've already
Speaker 2: had things that I'm going to go and check out
Speaker 2: that we talked about. Well, what did we talked about earlier?
Speaker 2: Not unpacking your suitcase right in a hotel room.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, you have to be careful of the upholstery
Speaker 1: because of bed books. Yes, got to watch for the
Speaker 1: bed books. That is just so gross, and but it's
Speaker 1: it's so gross. But we had bedbugs. Want a small
Speaker 1: is what happened? We were we had just moved into
Speaker 1: this house and I had this beautiful headboard made by
Speaker 1: a local upholsterer from my daughter who was three, and
Speaker 1: it was this pink, beautiful upholstered headboard with diamonds in it.
Speaker 1: It was so cute and it was a local person
Speaker 1: and I just said, hey, I bought the fabrics. I
Speaker 1: don't know. That room came together last for some reason,
Speaker 1: and I guess he made it in his little ware. Anyway,
Speaker 1: there were bed bugs because my little cute girl, with
Speaker 1: her little chubby cheeks, she'd wake up in the morning
Speaker 1: and have all these bites on her face. And I
Speaker 1: was like, what is going on? And then of course
Speaker 1: we're looking it up. I'm looking it up, and if
Speaker 1: they're in a line, they say it's bed bugs. And
Speaker 1: now I'm freaking out because if you look to see
Speaker 1: how you have to get rid of bed bugs, you
Speaker 1: might as well just burn everything and leave. It's just
Speaker 1: it's a disaster. So I call this company that someone
Speaker 1: told me to call, and there's a dog that they
Speaker 1: have come to your house to sniff out the bed bugs. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I'm like, all right, So I call the place
Speaker 1: and they and I'm expecting like a doberman, like some
Speaker 1: big gnarly bug seeking thing. I open the door and
Speaker 1: it is I am not kidding a poodle. It is
Speaker 1: a small poodle.
Speaker 2: That is.
Speaker 1: And the person with the lesion, I'm like, really, it's
Speaker 1: a poodle. Poodles go all right? So they bring the
Speaker 1: dog in the house, and the dog they bring him upstairs.
Speaker 1: The dog is upstairs, immediately goes to the headboard, to
Speaker 1: the headboard, starts stiffing around. They take the headboard out,
Speaker 1: they take it out to their truck. They slice it
Speaker 1: open and there's bedbugs. So now they take the dog
Speaker 1: back up to the room and the dog doesn't find anything.
Speaker 1: Because I'm like, do I take the mattress out? Do
Speaker 1: I call the guy? What happened?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I just never used him again. I would think you
Speaker 1: would have at least called him. And I think he
Speaker 1: knows he has been bugs. How does he not know
Speaker 1: he's infested with bed bugs? It was so gross, It
Speaker 1: was so disgusting. But anyways, that sounds or disgusted. I
Speaker 1: had to get her a new headboard, but I did.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you a question, what is the
Speaker 2: best advice you've ever been given? Oh, that's a big question.
Speaker 1: I know that is a big question the best advice,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's different categories of advice. I think. I
Speaker 1: think one thing that sticks out in my mind is
Speaker 1: that my mom told me, well, two things. My mom
Speaker 1: told me two things that I thought were very very good.
Speaker 1: One was be careful who you date because you can
Speaker 1: fall in love with anyone. Okay, good advice, which really
Speaker 1: is good advice because you know what, like all humans
Speaker 1: have beautiful qualities, and yeah, you can find all the
Speaker 1: good qualities. Yeah, and you can look yes, yeah. And
Speaker 1: when you if you have a life, pat you have
Speaker 1: things in your life that are important to you, and like, like,
Speaker 1: all right, just off the top of my head, you
Speaker 1: want children, right, and you meet someone who absolutely does
Speaker 1: not want children, you should not date that person. That
Speaker 1: is a red flag because you will never convince this
Speaker 1: person to have children. It'll never be harmonious. No, no,
Speaker 1: you can't do that, So be careful who you do. Okay, good,
Speaker 1: That was that's number one, right, And then number two,
Speaker 1: and this one I think is very very important is
Speaker 1: to have friends of all ages and all stages of life.
Speaker 1: Because you know, when you're younger, obviously you're friends with
Speaker 1: people your age. It's developmental when you're super young. It's
Speaker 1: I can't think of the word I'm trying to look
Speaker 1: for right now. But it's like, you know, you're in
Speaker 1: a certain grade of school when you're older, or a
Speaker 1: certain you know, a part of your life where you're
Speaker 1: in college, so you're friends with college people, or you've
Speaker 1: just you know, you're graduated, and your bubble can get
Speaker 1: really too small. Yeah. And it's funny because I remember
Speaker 1: when I was younger saying to my mom, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: your friends, that couple that your friends with there so old,
Speaker 1: Like why are you friends with them? And she said
Speaker 1: to me, no, it's so good. They have a different perspective.
Speaker 1: And so I have always made sure I have people
Speaker 1: in my life that are older and that are younger.
Speaker 1: I was, you know, recently when we moved back to
Speaker 1: la you know, we were talking about going back to
Speaker 1: scripted work, you and I recently, which I really do
Speaker 1: want to do my own terms, as we both discussed,
Speaker 1: and what makes sense for my life now. So I
Speaker 1: joined the Groundlings, and I audition to the Groundlings, got
Speaker 1: in and started taking class with the Groundlings. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you're so brave. You should do with me. Wow, I
Speaker 1: can't even answer that. No, you should come take a class. Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: just tell me what it's like first. It's I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get back to that a second. But here's what I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you. I took the Groundings, and I
Speaker 1: did it with a girlfriend of mine, also an actress.
Speaker 1: You might hurt, but my friend Dina, who we've been
Speaker 1: friends for a million years, and not only do we
Speaker 1: have the best time, it was all I call them kids.
Speaker 1: They were all the kids in the class. They were kids,
Speaker 1: and they were great, and we'd go out with them,
Speaker 1: we had dinners with them, we'd go to drinks. We'd
Speaker 1: be like we were joking, like smoking a cigarette, like
Speaker 1: we don't smoke anymore, but you know, like, oh, darlings,
Speaker 1: in the few days, you were the old people. We
Speaker 1: were the old people. They were the young people. It
Speaker 1: was but you know what, I didn't feel any different
Speaker 1: than they were at all, right, And it was unbelievably
Speaker 1: fun and honestly, like I ended up doing this little
Speaker 1: musical thing with one of them because she wrote this
Speaker 1: show like it was just such an interesting fun Yeah,
Speaker 1: really bold, fucking scary thing to do. But I'm sort
Speaker 1: of in that mindset. I really encourage you to do
Speaker 1: this too. Like I just started taking so I started
Speaker 1: as a musical theater person. I was a singer and
Speaker 1: a fourteen piece big band that I toured with fears.
Speaker 1: I'm taking vocal lessons again. It's terrifying. I love this though.
Speaker 2: It's a whole new You have the time now, you
Speaker 2: are at the phase I'm like making the time.
Speaker 1: Almost an empty nester, but I'm making the time. You're
Speaker 1: so busy. I'm so busy. We still have the kids
Speaker 1: even if they're not at home.
Speaker 2: But do you feel like you're like consciously choosing what
Speaker 2: it is that you want to take the time and do,
Speaker 2: like making those brave decisions and choices.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing what fits so Okay. So I like, like,
Speaker 1: I can't take the next Groundlings class right now because
Speaker 1: I have other obligations right so I'm putting it off
Speaker 1: until May, and I'll do the next one in May.
Speaker 1: But I know in my mind it would do that.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, Okay, what day do I free and
Speaker 1: what do I need to prioritize here? Okay, and then
Speaker 1: I'll try something and if it fills me and feeds
Speaker 1: my soul, I do it and if it doesn't, I'm out.
Speaker 1: You don't need to waste time because you know the
Speaker 1: you don't need to waste time. And didn't you feel
Speaker 1: like when you hit fifty it was like I got
Speaker 1: nothing to lose. Right, it's halftime, yep. Got to gather
Speaker 1: the troops, put them in the locker room and go, Okay,
Speaker 1: what do we do well last court? Last half? What
Speaker 1: didn't we do well? We gotta move forward and there's
Speaker 1: something different. Yeah, there's no more time to like stress
Speaker 1: about it or feel upset about things that didn't go well. Right,
Speaker 1: I just keep moving forward. You have to keep moving forward.
Speaker 1: I'm not always good at this, but I'm really trying
Speaker 1: to consciously make sure that every day. Like sometimes you
Speaker 1: know when you wake up in the morning and you go, oh,
Speaker 1: what do I have to do today? I go, what
Speaker 1: do I get to do today? I go what do
Speaker 1: I get to do today? And even if it sucks,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find like something within the day. Like
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with plates right now. Oh that's a good obsession. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I used to be into running and all these things,
Speaker 1: but my body can't handle it anymore. So you know
Speaker 1: what that's Okay, I've realized that there's different ages and
Speaker 1: stages for fitness also, right, And now I'm obsessed with pilates.
Speaker 1: I love it and I love this place I go,
Speaker 1: and it makes me happy when I'm there. So even
Speaker 1: if that's the only great thing, that's how I'm gonna
Speaker 1: start my day.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say I get to go to the
Speaker 2: gym today, all right.
Speaker 1: If you hate it, but you could say no, I
Speaker 1: get it. I used to hate it too. I had
Speaker 1: a switch with it a number of years ago because
Speaker 1: I never was a workout person. I never liked it.
Speaker 1: Had to hate hate hate. But then when like orange
Speaker 1: theory became a thing, I started going there and I
Speaker 1: really developed a love for like running and the hit
Speaker 1: thing and whatever. But my body started breaking down from
Speaker 1: that kind of exercise after a decade of that. So
Speaker 1: now I'm into this and this is great for your body,
Speaker 1: and it's you know what, you get to lie down
Speaker 1: for half the class. I really highly recommend me. I
Speaker 1: know it's dark. It's like dark too. There's this like
Speaker 1: hot mat class that I go to. It's so good.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say something about the instructor,
Speaker 1: but okay, oh, the mat. No, there's no hot instructor,
Speaker 1: no class. I mean it's usually women, which are women,
Speaker 1: they are hot, but like, yeah, yeah, I'm not looking
Speaker 1: for that. No, so anyway, so yeah. So But even
Speaker 1: if it's not that, you have to build something into
Speaker 1: your day, even if it's you or like frothed coffee
Speaker 1: that you love that you sit and you scroll, or
Speaker 1: you whatever it is that you that guilty pleasure thing
Speaker 1: that you do, you got to focus on that thing. Yep,
Speaker 1: that's so true.
Speaker 2: Have you ever given advice to someone who didn't want it, like,
Speaker 2: and that backfired for you?
Speaker 1: Oh? I'm sure a million times that's happened. I really,
Speaker 1: What do you mean? You're sure? Because because I'm so outspoken,
Speaker 1: you know, and when I was younger, I'm sure I
Speaker 1: felt like, if I'm perfectly honest, that I knew better
Speaker 1: than someone else did and had the best advice. I
Speaker 1: think I've become much better at listening as I've gotten older. Yeah,
Speaker 1: reading the room maybe, and reading the room and not
Speaker 1: being so verbose about things sometimes. You know, it's okay
Speaker 1: to not tell everyone exactly you want, you think, but
Speaker 1: if someone asks for my opinion, I'm happy to give
Speaker 1: it right, there's a difference. There is a difference. Yes,
Speaker 1: if someone comes to you and asks for advice, they
Speaker 1: want your expertise on something, they want your perspective. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And if they don't like it, then they really didn't
Speaker 1: want it in the first place, and then that's fucked right. Well.
Speaker 1: And also they if they don't take your advice like
Speaker 1: they don't, well they don't have.
Speaker 2: To take they don't have to take it, but it'd
Speaker 2: be better for them if they did, right.
Speaker 1: But I mean, don't you say that with your kids? Sometimes,
Speaker 1: like my eighteen year old will come to you and
Speaker 1: be like mom, and then ask me this whole thing,
Speaker 1: and I'll listen, and I'll think to myself, what does
Speaker 1: she want mess here? But then I'll give my honest
Speaker 1: advice and then she'll say yeah, no, no. But what
Speaker 1: I do notice is it will still make her think.
Speaker 1: It'll be in the back of her mind, yes, and
Speaker 1: it might inform right she ends up course, of course,
Speaker 1: but they'll never admit it.
Speaker 2: No. What about this marriage of yours? You have been
Speaker 2: married to the same man, sorry, because that's not the
Speaker 2: case for me.
Speaker 1: The same man over every day every day. How do
Speaker 1: you do it?
Speaker 2: Like I love change, and I feel like I've changed
Speaker 2: my husband's a few times and that's been really fun.
Speaker 1: But how do you stay with the same man for
Speaker 1: twenty four we're together twenty eight years? Twenty eight Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've been married twenty five and a half. Yeah, marriage
Speaker 1: is hard work. I will say, you know we met
Speaker 1: we didn't. I mean we met when I was twenty
Speaker 1: seven and he was thirty eight, so it's I wasn't
Speaker 1: twenty two. We got married when I was thirty Again,
Speaker 1: wasn't twenty two. Now I can give you a million
Speaker 1: reasons why I think we're together. I think the honest
Speaker 1: to God truth is marriage is a leap of faith
Speaker 1: and you have absolutely no idea what you're getting into
Speaker 1: until you get into it. Nope, yep, at all you have.
Speaker 1: You have the best of intentions, and that's why if
Speaker 1: there are red flags before you're walking down the aisle,
Speaker 1: do not do it.
Speaker 2: No. I know it's hard to do though. Sometimes there's
Speaker 2: a few little red flags. Maybe they're pink, I know.
Speaker 1: But that's why I hate when I hear people get
Speaker 1: married fast, and I don't understand why people rush into marriage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the truth is, when you have a child with
Speaker 1: someone as you know, that's the forever moment. Marriage is
Speaker 1: not necessarily forever, right. I don't understand why people like
Speaker 1: they meet, they want to rush, they want to get
Speaker 1: into it. I will tell you that there's certain moments
Speaker 1: in a relationship you don't get back. You don't get
Speaker 1: back the courtship period, and you don't get back the
Speaker 1: engaged period, because it's once you're married, then you're just married.
Speaker 1: Then it's just ticking of time. So I highly recommend
Speaker 1: that people enjoy all of those things. And again, if
Speaker 1: there are red flags that means it is not time
Speaker 1: to get married, you got to figure that out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like dig into those red flags before you I mean
Speaker 1: like I didn't have those red flag of course when
Speaker 1: you're dating someone. Yeah, people you know, they urk you.
Speaker 1: You got to figure out if you can live together,
Speaker 1: you know, all those normal sort of things. But you know,
Speaker 1: like we were talking about before, if someone is saying
Speaker 1: they don't want to have kids, you want to have kids.
Speaker 1: They don't like to travel. You like to travel. You
Speaker 1: are very active. They're a couch potato. They like to
Speaker 1: have guys' nights or guys weekends every weekend. You know
Speaker 1: it depends on what's important to you. Some people like
Speaker 1: I can't remember who I just read an actress she
Speaker 1: just got married last year. I have to think of
Speaker 1: her name. And she and her husband live in separate states. Huh,
Speaker 1: and they love it and it's perfect for them. They
Speaker 1: both have their own careers. He's maybe I don't remember
Speaker 1: what he does, but anyway, they both have very significant
Speaker 1: careers and they're great and when they come together, they
Speaker 1: have the best time and they love each other. But
Speaker 1: this is how their relationship works that model. It's not
Speaker 1: me to judge what will or will not work for
Speaker 1: someone else, but for me, like I could not have
Speaker 1: been with someone that didn't want kids. That would have
Speaker 1: been a hard note, even though again I wasn't someone
Speaker 1: that was like dying to have children my whole life.
Speaker 1: But I just felt like it was something I would do.
Speaker 1: At twenty seven, you said, did you know what you're like,
Speaker 1: what your non negotiables were? No, not at all. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm saying it was a leap of faith. But
Speaker 1: I think that wait, wait, wait, how long did you
Speaker 1: wait till you got married? So we dated for a
Speaker 1: year and a half, okay, got engaged and then we
Speaker 1: were engaged for a year and then got married. But
Speaker 1: remember he's ten and a half years older, so when
Speaker 1: we got married, he was forty, so it was like
Speaker 1: it felt okay. I think if he had been my
Speaker 1: age or a couple years older, we probably would have
Speaker 1: waited longer to get married. Yeah, that's what I think.
Speaker 1: You learn a lot about I did all the things
Speaker 1: you said we shouldn't be doing. I got married.
Speaker 2: I got engaged three months into a relationship and married
Speaker 2: six months and two.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That and you were young. And when you're that age,
Speaker 2: it wasn't that young, this old. This was in my
Speaker 2: early forties. This was my current.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, this wasn't you. But you're still together.
Speaker 2: I told you I like change. He doesn't like when
Speaker 2: I say that because he gets little nervous. But we're
Speaker 2: still together.
Speaker 1: How long have you live? Been together? Ten years? That's
Speaker 1: a long time. It's funny, I interviewed. You want to
Speaker 1: know what's crazy. I haven't had an alcohol week two
Speaker 1: weeks right now, and I think it's given me brain fog.
Speaker 1: Not drinking No, no normally or Norman Lear famous Norman Lear,
Speaker 1: adorable who passed away last year. Anyway, Norman Lear who
Speaker 1: you know who I don't know normally er he created
Speaker 1: a million television shows all in the family, like a
Speaker 1: million TV shows love him, like the King of the
Speaker 1: sitcom and he lived to like one hundred and one. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he was on the show and we were talking and
Speaker 1: he was talking about his failed marriages and he was
Speaker 1: worrying about one wife in particular. When I go, how
Speaker 1: long were you married? And he said thirty years. I go,
Speaker 1: that's not a failed marriage. That's thirty years is a
Speaker 1: huge long life together. When marriage was created, people didn't
Speaker 1: live past like eighteen. I don't think it was intended
Speaker 1: for people to be together for fifty six years. It is,
Speaker 1: you know, not the norm for people to be together.
Speaker 1: What do you get divorced after three like they call
Speaker 1: it a gray divorce. It's very I just ran into
Speaker 1: someone last night who was telling me that his parents
Speaker 1: are getting divorced after thirty years and they're in their seventies,
Speaker 1: and it's called it's a new thing. They're called it
Speaker 1: a gray divorce, like gray hair. Uh huh that older
Speaker 1: people like they just they hit a wall and they're like,
Speaker 1: or no, I'm done. Yeah, how many years I got
Speaker 1: left by bye, not doing with you. I love them.
Speaker 1: That's so funny. I feel bad for your husband now
Speaker 1: I'm worried, but I really do like this great divorce thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's always on the table, you know, a few years.
Speaker 1: But you're well, we'll never go great. Let's be honest,
Speaker 1: that's not really in our future. I'm gonna go white, Betty, No,
Speaker 1: you're a gorgeous blonde. Just keep it stop. So so
Speaker 1: we I think it's a leap of faith. I think
Speaker 1: that we've been lucky and we have really done a
Speaker 1: good job of upping our game decade by decade as
Speaker 1: it's been needed. And that's been so good for us
Speaker 1: because neither of us are like therapy kids. Like we
Speaker 1: didn't go to therapy, our parents didn't really talk to us.
Speaker 1: We're like flying by the seat of our pants here.
Speaker 1: But I think both kind of you know, reasonably intelligent people,
Speaker 1: and him for sure, Hyer Transurgeon and we separately have
Speaker 1: come to each other at different times and been like,
Speaker 1: look what are we doing with this? This isn't working.
Speaker 1: You know, what's going on with you? What's going on
Speaker 1: with us. It's really important to date your spouse and
Speaker 1: that continue to date Terry believes in going to sleep mad.
Speaker 1: Some people don't. Some people want to fix it before
Speaker 1: does he explain why. He thinks that's because he thinks
Speaker 1: the end of the night, it's a bad idea. And
Speaker 1: he's right, you're tired, especially you've had dreams or anything.
Speaker 1: It's just it's not the time. Yeah, daytime is better,
Speaker 1: you know, learn how to fight healthy. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: have to learn each other's fighting styles and you have
Speaker 1: to meet in the middle somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You learn so much about a person as the years tick.
Speaker 2: You think you know everything and then you learn something new.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But I have to say, like, we're best friends.
Speaker 1: We do you know, we've done We've written three books together.
Speaker 1: We you know, it's our hobby. We've done TV shows together.
Speaker 1: We love that we have product line together. We sell supplements.
Speaker 2: And you're like, relationship goals. Have you ever done like
Speaker 2: a like a couple's retreat?
Speaker 1: No? No, like saying like bring back the fire? No? Nothing,
Speaker 1: like like like's a host water go to to one?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Would you know what we do? We just go to Paris? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: have some time together. Yeah. We're really good, really really
Speaker 1: good at dating each other. And I have to say,
Speaker 1: you know, I because I wasn't working for a bunch
Speaker 1: of years when the kids were little. There was like
Speaker 1: I mean, I did a couple of pilots that kind
Speaker 1: of thing, but I wasn't like steadily working. There was
Speaker 1: like a seven eight year period of time where I
Speaker 1: was just home and he, you know, is a surgeon
Speaker 1: and he was at work and like busy busy. So
Speaker 1: except for that period of time, we've been really good
Speaker 1: at taking time together. And because he wasn't that he's
Speaker 1: not a baby person. Sweet, he's never don't want to make
Speaker 1: himself like a bad dad, Like he's great now that
Speaker 1: he goes he goes to babies. He hates children, but
Speaker 1: now that the kids are older, like he's the best
Speaker 1: and he's the best relationship with our kids, and he's
Speaker 1: such a good connected dad of this age and up
Speaker 1: that it's been so amazing. But I will tell you
Speaker 1: he loves me, and I say this very confidently, more
Speaker 1: than anyone in the world. And he would choose me
Speaker 1: over the children. Like if he stops loving me, he's
Speaker 1: not capable of loving because that's because that's him. That's
Speaker 1: got to feel like such a good place to be
Speaker 1: it's great and he has your back. He does you
Speaker 1: give a lot of advice. Who do you go to
Speaker 1: for advice? Him? I go to him. I'll talk to
Speaker 1: my kids sometimes, depending on what the situation is. I
Speaker 1: have some trusted people girlfriends in my life, depending on
Speaker 1: what the situation is that I feel really comfortable. I
Speaker 1: got burned a number of years ago. Look, relationships just
Speaker 1: like anything, you know, it's they go up and down.
Speaker 1: Terry and I don't fight about real things. I have
Speaker 1: to say, well, bicker like most people bicker. But there's
Speaker 1: been very few big, heavy things. But there was one
Speaker 1: once years ago. We were kind of fighting about being
Speaker 1: on a reality show because it took its toll, as
Speaker 1: you know, and we had to have a come to
Speaker 1: Jesus moment where I said to him, look, we either
Speaker 1: figure out how to do this or we get off
Speaker 1: this show because this it's not working. And during that
Speaker 1: period of time, I talked to who I thought was
Speaker 1: a girlfriend of mine about this, and she repeated things
Speaker 1: I said and twisted him and you know, started a
Speaker 1: narrative out there, and I was just like it, really
Speaker 1: that broke me, and it was very hard for me
Speaker 1: to open up to people about things like that.
Speaker 2: So I keep that tight tight. I think that's the
Speaker 2: best way to keep it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: My husband is ultimately like my best friend, and I
Speaker 2: go to him and gives me a different perspective than
Speaker 2: I have. He keeps me grounded, he tells, he calls
Speaker 2: me out. Yeah, just yesterday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's hard to hear that stuff mind us too.
Speaker 1: It's so annoying, and it's really annoying when they're right.
Speaker 1: They're always right. Terry's always right. It's so annoying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what they say about marriage though. It's like
Speaker 2: holding that mirror up. They're the mirror.
Speaker 1: But then if you don't want to know, don't ask.
Speaker 1: He'll say that to me too, But that I'll say
Speaker 1: to him, And this is how we teach each other. Right,
Speaker 1: I'll go listen right now. I don't want you to
Speaker 1: fix it. I don't want to hear what you have
Speaker 1: to say. Just let me vent. I need to cry.
Speaker 1: I need to vent, and then you could do that.
Speaker 1: Just give me a minute. Yeah, that's good communication. Yes,
Speaker 1: you got to tell them they're not mind readers. If
Speaker 1: you expect them to be mind readers, you both lose,
Speaker 1: very very true.
Speaker 2: I think that it's important to maintain that independence from
Speaker 2: your husband, even when you are as close. I think
Speaker 2: it sounds like you're as close to your husband.
Speaker 1: I'm very good. Can't be codependent. No, no, I love
Speaker 1: time away from him. Yeah, but I feel like that
Speaker 1: happens with us. It happens sort of naturally, because of
Speaker 1: the hour, because of the jobs. It just kind of happens.
Speaker 1: But I have to say, I mean, I hate to
Speaker 1: say these things out loud, because you know, when you
Speaker 1: talk nicely about your relationship, it always goes to shit.
Speaker 1: You always fight that night. If you say so, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just pooh poo poop. But yeah, but all I
Speaker 1: have to say is, like, we'll go away together. Like
Speaker 1: we were just in Paris dropping off my daughter at
Speaker 1: school and we spent some time with her. Dropped her
Speaker 1: at school. She's there for the semester, and when we
Speaker 1: dropped her, we ended up we stayed a few extra
Speaker 1: days because we love Paris. It's like our happy place.
Speaker 1: So we stayed there a few days and we came home.
Speaker 1: We fly home, we get home and we go out
Speaker 1: to dinner together. Wow, Like we just you like to
Speaker 1: be just like to be together. I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of the same way you just said
Speaker 2: your daughter is doing a semester in Paris. I had
Speaker 2: my daughter do a semester in London, and I was
Speaker 2: very difficult for me.
Speaker 1: Why. I don't know, it's just smelled so far away. Well,
Speaker 1: so my son, so the twins. So he my son
Speaker 1: went to Italy first semester and she's in Paris now.
Speaker 1: And at first I was like, could you coordinate to
Speaker 1: be gone at the same time, right, But then I
Speaker 1: realized I got to go to Europe all year and
Speaker 1: I love it, and you know, again like finding joy
Speaker 1: in things like we were talking about finding time for
Speaker 1: classes or finding time for this. I will go to
Speaker 1: Europe for the This is not relatable. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: say this before. This is not a relatable thing. When
Speaker 1: I'm about to say, I apologize in advance. Ready, but
Speaker 1: I will go to Paris for the weekend if I
Speaker 1: have time for hits and giggles, if there's a thing
Speaker 1: like my son was done with his tour in Italy
Speaker 1: and it was my youngest son's birthday and I didn't
Speaker 1: really concept think about the fact we were going for
Speaker 1: a weekend, but I took them skiing in the French
Speaker 1: Alps for four days and it was like a long
Speaker 1: weekend and it was a long way to go, but
Speaker 1: it was so great and the two of them bonding
Speaker 1: and I went skiing for the first time and it
Speaker 1: was fantastic. And so now my daughter there and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm lonely, I miss you, I'm homesick. I go I
Speaker 1: may have a weekend. That's the thing.
Speaker 2: Because you and I are both homemakers. Yes, we want
Speaker 2: our homes to be the sanctuary for our family. It
Speaker 2: sounds like we're very similar in respect. How what is
Speaker 2: it like when your kids they don't want to leave?
Speaker 2: It's so good where they were at home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear kids want to stay here the like
Speaker 1: thirty Now. Honestly, I'm okay with it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I want them to be close, but not that close. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well my daughter, yeah, well two of my girls are
Speaker 2: still at home, and our house is small and the
Speaker 2: bedrooms are all right together.
Speaker 1: Yeah. There is no privacy, privacy, yeah at all. And
Speaker 1: they're cool with that. There.
Speaker 2: I did that on purpose because they were teenagers. When
Speaker 2: about the house UNDERSTI wanted to keep them close.
Speaker 1: You wanted to hear what was calling. I'm kind of
Speaker 1: like I knew more. Yeah right, but I want you.
Speaker 1: I like that you like change. It might be time
Speaker 1: to move. I have thought about it, definitely thought about it.
Speaker 1: Oh I love our conversation. Yeah too good.
Speaker 2: I have to ask you one last question, Heather Deubro,
Speaker 2: what was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 1: I mean, Swiss alps ain't bad. Yeah, but that's not it.
Speaker 1: I really think it's going back to vocal lessons, and
Speaker 1: I would say just in the category I signed up for,
Speaker 1: like a bunch of things, a bunch of classes where
Speaker 1: I'm really choosing me. It's a really hard thing. I
Speaker 1: wonder if you feel the same way, where you know
Speaker 1: you want to put things out into the world to
Speaker 1: make them real and put you know, manifest them. But
Speaker 1: there's also a school of thought where don't tell people
Speaker 1: what you're doing, show them when it happens. And I
Speaker 1: feel like when I was younger, it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell anyone because it'll jinx it
Speaker 1: or it'll this, or it all that kind of over that,
Speaker 1: like I don't really care. Like I loved when I
Speaker 1: told you that I'm doing this class you. You were
Speaker 1: a little horrified and kind of excited at the same time. Right,
Speaker 1: That's how I was. And I feel like i'm me
Speaker 1: by pushing myself out of my comfort zone and into
Speaker 1: these areas because again, we have nothing to lose. And
Speaker 1: by the way, and you don't give a fuck, I
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck. And if I could just toot
Speaker 1: our horns any collectively, like we look really good and
Speaker 1: we're talented, and we're thriving, and our audience watches TV,
Speaker 1: so why not. Yeah, I mean you said it, it's
Speaker 1: time to go back. I love that, right, So this
Speaker 1: is a first step. And what's also really great is
Speaker 1: remember when you're younger and you're like, oh shit, if
Speaker 1: something doesn't happen in the next six months, I'm done.
Speaker 1: Nothing will ever happen again. Where will I be? I'll
Speaker 1: shrivel up and die. Now you're like, I'm already all
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Three months, six months, next year, or
Speaker 1: whatever it happens, it happens. It's fine, exactly. Yeah, Oh
Speaker 1: you're set. You're just in a great place in your life.
Speaker 1: I can feel it. Yeah, so are you. It's so good.
Speaker 1: I love it. Thank you so much, Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. I loved meeting you. I mean, well, now
Speaker 1: you really know, and yeah, I know you so well.
Speaker 1: I love it.