WEBVTT - A Brief Overview of Punk Rock 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.760 Hello, Maine and Greater New England. We're coming to see 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.360 you guys in Portland and we can't wait. We would 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:07.960 love to see you there. Yep, we'll be at the 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.119 State Theater on August. If you're interested, you can get 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:15.200 tickets and information at s y s K live dot com. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.680 There's some lobster at us. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:28.320 a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.920 you're welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:38.080 Thrash core By I'm already regretting this. There's Chuck Bryan 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:42.560 over there, Charles W. Chuck Bryan, There's Jerry Droome Roland 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:48.159 and uh, like I said, I'm Josh should know. Hey, ho, 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.560 let's go exactly. I want to issue a c I 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.680 A off the top here, Okay, to fans of punk music, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.440 get ready to be mad at us. Yeah, please don't 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.119 beat us up though. Yeah. Here's the thing. Punk it's 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.120 sort of like the hip hop episode. It's not just music, 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.679 it's a culture. It's a movement and it is so 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:16.880 there are so many tentacles, alternative tentacles, so many subgenres, 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.280 so many Like the more I started getting into it, 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.520 I was like, why are we even doing this in 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.080 a single episode. I had the same feeling because it 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.959 can only disappoint. But we're doing anything now. There's a 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.280 lot of people out there who don't know squad about punk. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.720 We're gonna be like, cool, I'm punk now, I get it, 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.520 and the people who are punked now we're gonna love 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.600 us for it. Well, I mean, you know, there are 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.600 certainly podcast I'm sure that are dedicated to the history 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.959 of punk right now. I know. And the thing is 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.680 is with a big distinction here between the hip hop 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.960 episode and this episode is that the hip hop episode 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.120 doesn't beat you up if you show up to it. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.280 There shows and you're not wearing the right thing. That's true. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.919 Punk's kind of protective of punk, which makes sense because 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:08.000 that's pretty punk, right, like you kinda you can't allow 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.200 for commercialization of punk or else it stops being punk. 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:16.760 So by definition it has to be vigilantly defended and protected. 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:19.360 But the irony of the whole thing is when you 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.920 do that, you actually strangle it from becoming anything ever, 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.400 and you kind of killed punk strangling in the cradle 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.320 the end. Yeah, And I listened to a lot of 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:35.200 music while researching this, and there's just so many things 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.040 that could possibly fall under the banner of punk, and 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.640 probably so many real punk fans that will fight you 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.200 on any of them if you say, like, you know, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:50.079 the Talking Heads were punk, our television was punk, not really, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.760 but were a new wave I don't know. Yeah, the 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.640 New York Dolls, I was listening to them proto punk. 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.799 When you listen to them, though, they sound like sort 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.040 of like dressed up rock and roll, like rocky horror 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.320 picture show style, right, But make no bones about it, 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:09.200 the New York Dolls were a direct predecessor of punk. Yeah. 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.280 But then I started listening to things I never listened 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.480 to growing up at all. Like I wasn't a punk kid, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.760 but I saw all the Jackets with Minor Threat and 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.000 Circle Jerks and Dead Kennedy's on them, and I started 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.760 listening to that stuff today and I liked a lot 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.680 of it. It's good music, and some of it I 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.120 didn't quite love, Okay, which one I think. You know. 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.640 My deal is I like vocals and vocalists and punk 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.480 is not known for that. But stuff like that had 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.000 a really unique bent and it wasn't just screaming. I 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.720 liked a lot more so you like the Misfits a lot. 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.920 I like the Misfits, I like the Damned, I like 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.920 the Circle Jerks. Did not like the Germs. I was 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.360 never into the Germans. What about the Cramps? Uh, I 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:50.960 didn't listen to the Cramps yet, they're like rockabilly punk. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.760 I'll probably like it. But stuff that had a little 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.720 more melody, little more vocal styling I liked much more 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.720 than the Germs, which you know, dar we crashed, just 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.720 it's just screaming things that you can hardly understand. Didn't 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.000 love Black Flag, What Little Icel listen to? Like the 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.360 Henry Rawlins black Flag. I listened to a little bit 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.000 of both. But um, it's all very interesting to me, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.520 and I dig the music for sure. Yeah, it's hard 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:21.120 not to in some way, shape or form like punk 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.719 when you hear it like it's it's it's just too 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.760 it just gets under your skin just too easily, really quickly, 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.040 and you might not even realize, like you're like your 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.520 head's like kind of nodding in your knees like shaking 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.400 or whatever. But like, no matter who you are, punk 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.800 and get to you like that now, whether you're like 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.560 I'm gonna start buying punk records and like get a 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.440 mohawk or something like that. That's that's maybe a couple 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.440 of steps down the road. Most people probably wouldn't, but 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.560 I think everybody can appreciate punk on some level. Especially 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.800 to me. The greatest punk band of all time, and 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.160 what I would argue would be the first punk band 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.600 is the Remotes. If you like melody and you like singing, 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.880 but you also like punk, they've got everything you need. Yeah, 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.680 And if you like songs that are seconds long, sure 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.080 well that was a big thing. Like punk grew out 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.880 of this idea that led Zeppelin had like eleven minutes 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.280 songs they were playing on the radio, and guys like 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:20.560 the Ramones were like shut up. So they purposefully and 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.000 deliberately went the opposite way and they started making songs 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.919 or sometimes less than a minute, like one of the 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.400 greatest punk songs of all time in my opinion, Circle 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.320 Jerk's Wasted is like fifty fifty two seconds long, Get 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.719 and get out. It's all you need. He gets the 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.800 point across. He talks about all the drugs he's on. 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:39.920 She talks about all the stuff he does when he's 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.320 on drugs. All unless than a minute. Yeah, but I 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.039 think you bring up an important point is punk was 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:50.040 a reaction. It was a reaction to the bloated money 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:54.680 and the bloated song links and the arena rock, Cucumber 0:05:54.960 --> 0:06:00.960 in the pants, hard rock, Mackeismo getting the eighties. Like 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:04.440 this great quote from one of the Ramones, these were 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.240 kids on the outside and he said, Uh, Johnny Ramon 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.120 in ninety six and Rolling Stones said, you know, they 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.280 got together because none of them could get girls, so 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.000 they all found solace in each other. And he said 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.360 girls always wanted to go with guys who had corvettes, 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.480 so we had nothing to do but climb on rooftops 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.120 and sniff glue. The Rams in a nutshell. But if 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.640 you look at nineteen seventy seven, like the albums that 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.719 came out in nineteen seventy seven, Um, you know you've 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.000 got the sex Pistols and the Ramons and stuff like that, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:38.720 but you've got Eric Clapton, Slowhand, Fleetwood, Max Rumors, Point 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:43.599 of No Return from Kansas, Uh The Stranger from Billy Joel, 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.760 which one was that it was one of the great ones, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.800 but they all work great. Uh Asia from Uh Steely 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.800 Dan and like these are like the big chart toppers, 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.039 and so punk came along and was just like, no, 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.080 screw through all that to heck with you guys, That's 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.160 what it says. So it was an ethos and a 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.760 spirit even as much as it was music. Yeah, And 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.160 I think, um one of the other things that commonly 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.160 ran across and researching this was that, um, it was 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.880 not just kind of like rock sucks because it's getting 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.840 so you know, eleven minutes long per song and there's 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.480 lots of guitar solos and stuff like that, but also 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.840 that it was hopelessly commercialized, and so punk was like, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.040 there's nothing inherently wrong with rock, it's just gone on 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:34.880 this path that it's been on for so long that 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.520 it's it's just become I think, like you said, bloated, Um, 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.400 let's take rock back and scrape away all the all 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.880 the blow and just get back to like the core 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:49.160 and the point of it originally, which was rebellion, which 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.600 is that was what punk was built on in the 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.640 in the late seventies and the Ramons again, I will 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.280 go to my grave saying they were officially the first 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.600 punk band that ever existed, But there were there was 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.720 music that's that led up to that immediately before it, 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.280 and even a decade or so before it, that really 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.240 laid the foundation in the groundwork for for bands like 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.960 the Ramona and this the punk that that um, the 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.320 punk music that took off right afterwards. Yeah, and you 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.880 also got to remember that coming into the early seventies 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.480 where some of these proto punk bands started, this was 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.280 coming off of the late sixties and the hippie movement 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.800 and Nixon and Vietnam, which so all that had proved 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.120 a failure. Yeah, and and flower power and the peace 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.080 and love and all that stuff. Uh. There there's still 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:41.080 Crisy Stills and Nash and stuff hanging around, but there's 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.880 also a younger generation that thumb their nose or more 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:48.880 specifically their middle finger at that whole generation, and that's 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.600 what sort of birth the punk movement, in the proto 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.560 punk movement at least. So I saw the earliest proto 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.680 punk band I could find, um that you could trace 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.760 his line too, is actually from Peru, Okay. They were 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.280 around in nineteen starting in ur Los Sakos s A 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:09.679 I c O. S. And if you go listen to 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.760 a Los Sakos song, you will it's quite clear that 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.920 this was proto punk. Did it have the speed a 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.120 little bit? Yau, I think that's a bit of the distinction, 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:24.120 Like there was that whole uh Nuggets era garage rock 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.560 of the sixties. You can hear a little bit of that, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.160 but it still didn't have that chugga chugga chugg a 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.200 speed that punk rock would be known for. You know 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.480 it did. Yeah, no, um, like another proto punk band 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.319 that's more garage rock, but kind of some of the 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.520 sentiments they came up with the Chocolate Watch band at 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.560 this anthem called like I'm not like everybody else and 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:50.280 it's like real kind of um, it's groovy, but if 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.400 you listen to the words, it's like those guys talking 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.200 about being a punk but it's long before punk. But 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:59.000 there musically they were not punk at all. Los Sachos 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.200 was punk, Like there's their sound is definitely punk and 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.920 they were around the same time. Yeah, And the and 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.280 the specifics of what you're doing musically on a guitar 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:13.160 with punkt is the down stroke. So you know, it's 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.760 hard to talk about it without showing you but if 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.960 you're playing like a an Eric Clapton rhythm part, it's 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.440 like you know, you're stroking down and up ching ching, 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.200 ching ching. If you're playing punk, you're just going down 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.280 that ching ching ching ching ching ching ching. Uh. And 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:32.120 that's really And the Ramons made a career out of 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.439 two or three chords played fast, playing that same rhythm 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.200 and down stroke over and over and over and over, 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.760 like I'm convinced you just did two seconds snippet of 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.520 a misfit song. I could hear it like playing his Day. 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.320 It's great. Though I was listening to stuff that I 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:50.760 was like, man, I really like a lot of this 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.480 and I missed out. So I see myself diving into 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.360 it again or diving in for the first time. Rather 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.080 I mean, I know about the Clash and the Ramons 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.079 and stuff like that, for but oh there's like I mean, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.000 as you know, a whole world world. And then the 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.319 thing about punk is the more like you find, oh 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.120 I like this band, and then oh that it turns 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.160 out this guy was used to be in this other band. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.760 There from the same scene as this other band. It 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.960 just keeps going and going and going, because one of 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.880 the through lines of punk is that anybody could be 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:26.200 in a punk band. It was super democratized in the 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.760 d I Y ethos um was was basically the foundation 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.040 of punk music. All right, well, let's take a break. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.400 We'll go back in time a little bit and talk 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.840 about New York and London, and then we'll get to that. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:41.400 What I think is kind of the coolest part of 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:53.479 this whole thing is that d I Y aesthetic. Okay, 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.880 al right, so I mentioned London in New York. I 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.240 sourced this from a bunch of articles. I can't remember 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.720 if this was the Pitchfork win or not, but the 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.720 headline of this part is the tale of two cities, 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.280 New York in l A. And I'm sorry New York 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.240 in London, but l A would come along a bit 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.240 later with its own scene. And also London gets mentioned 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.440 here at the expense of Manchester, which I would say 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.280 is like, that's ground zero next to New York. Right. 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.520 Also ground zero, which doesn't get nearly enough press is Australia. Yeah, 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.600 these things were going on in parallel all over the world. 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.000 That's really interesting to think, like this stuff is happening 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.280 like almost independently. It was, because it's not like someone 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.040 in Australia heard someone on the internet in nine But 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.120 there are a couple of bands, one called Cheap Nasties 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.280 on the Western I think in Perth, and then The Saints, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.360 probably the biggest punk band to come out of Australia. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.120 This is at the same time that cb gbs uh 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.760 and the Studges were like getting big. It's crazy. Yeah, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.679 so the Studges would technically qualify as proto punk too, 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.360 but they came from Michigan along with m C five 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.280 and Death Death is an even earlier proto punk band 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.959 than The Stages. That documentary is great. I actually I 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:10.800 haven't seen that one. Yeah, there's one on death it's 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:12.880 just called like a band called death Right. Yeah. Yeah, 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.760 it's very like they're amazing and they were, um I 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:20.000 think three three African American brothers from Detroit just killing it. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.959 Who in like a punk band? Yeah yeah, and this 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:25.959 is before the Stages. I think this is before MC 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.560 five Bad Brains for sure, for sure. Um, So all 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.360 of these bands are starting to kind of lay the 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.240 groundwork and then it's almost like it just kind of ignites, 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.960 like we're saying in different parts of the world virtually 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.760 at the same time, which I just find endlessly fascinating. Yeah, 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.640 and I think that's what really lends a lot of 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.000 credence to the fact that it was a movement. It 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.920 was a feeling people were rebelling against more than anything 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.520 which can happen parallel in different parts of the country 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.800 in world. You know, if there's anything that can bring 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.760 the whole world together, it's disdained for hippies, you know, 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.160 they really bring that out. And everybody, did you see 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.000 the Tarantino movie Yet Once upon a Time. Yes, there's 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.520 a lot of the anti hippies suffing. It was pretty funny, Yeah, 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.000 a little some of them are beaten to death. Literally. Well, 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.800 I just mean all the DiCaprio stuff was really funny. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:20.000 Hated the hippies. But but Tarantino really like pointed out, 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:24.880 like you know, the Manson family has been celebrated in 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:30.160 romanticized at least in some weird ways. Um, and they 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.000 should not be. And this is why I think he 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.480 did a really good job of doing that. Uh so sorry, 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.680 we're talking about the Stooges in MC five in Michigan. 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.280 Uh In New York City is where things really crystallized 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:47.000 with the club CBGB owned by Hilly Crystal. Crystal Crystal 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.720 is it Crystal? I think so? Like Billy Crystal right, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.880 but hilly uh. And originally you know that stands for 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.760 a country, blue, blue grass, and blues, and that was 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.960 what it was supposed to be when I opened in nineteen. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.240 But then in about two years the Ramones started playing there, 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:08.400 talking Heads started playing their nineteen seventy five Blondie um Television, 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:12.240 I think Television. I'm okay with them, Like I don't 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.640 love them, they don't, I don't hate them, but um, 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.520 they were they were essential to that scene happening, sure, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.160 um and a lot of people kind of overlook them. 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.800 I think is like one of the the foundation bands 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.160 for punk. Yeah, which is interesting, like I mentioned earlier, 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.960 like it's such different kinds of music, Like I love 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.160 Talking Heads and Television and Blondie and the Go Goes, 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.600 and they were all on that early scene. But I 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.320 don't think it's that's anything like the Misfits or the 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.480 Damned or the Ramons. No, but the Misfits uh and 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.120 the Ramons both started their careers at cbgby So it 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.359 was like the place where punk began in the United States. Yeah, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.120 but also at Max's Kanzie Kansas City and New York 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.720 Legendary Club. This is where like Patti Smith is hanging out, 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.640 the Velbot Underground is hanging out again. They're not punk 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.240 at all, but they were in that scene, right. And 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.320 one thing that we're kind of not really mentioning that 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.360 is a common thread to all these bands, not necessarily music, 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.640 but heroin was a huge thread. They shared their deep, deep, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.800 deep love of heroin UM in common and that definitely 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.320 bound them together at CBGB for sure. And that was 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.240 a huge factor on the early punk scene was heroin, 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.080 which I mean this is you know, if you remember 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.880 back just a few years ago, for oxycotton turned everybody 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.480 into junkies in the world, UM, heroin was not a 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.520 big drug at all, and back then especially it was 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.000 like you were a total burnout if you were doing heroin, 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.560 like it was not done. So the fact that these 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.720 people were like shooting heroin like in the clubs, that 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.320 was a that was a another kind of badge that 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:01.200 they took on UM that separated them from every buddy else. Yeah, 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.680 you know, even their preference of drugs was super hardcore. Yeah, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.760 for sure. Another interesting thing happened early on in nineteen 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.440 seventy seven when these two scenes sort of exported one 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:17.560 of their UM early UM big bands to play in 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.760 the other city. Uh In nineteen seventy seven, the Damned 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.000 played in the United States and less than a year 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.119 before that, the Ramons had gone to the UK to 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.600 play shows in London, and that was a big deal 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.000 because all of a sudden you had these two different 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.600 scenes swapping bands. Of course, it wasn't anything they planned, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:37.800 but they got a taste of New York City in 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.560 London with the Ramons in a big, big way, and 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.040 the same can be said in New York City with 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.520 The Damned very British. And then a month before the 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:52.959 Ramons played in London, in Manchester on June six, the 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.600 sex Pistols had their first show. And a lot of 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.840 people point to this is this is when UK punk happened. 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.480 It was this one show at the um Lesser Free 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.320 Trade Hall, which is like a hall might as well 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.679 be a VFW basically, and that's where the sex Pistols 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.560 are there first show. But some of the people who 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.480 were there were so influential, including a seventeen year old 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.520 Morrissey who went to cover the thing for New Music 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:22.600 Express um that that it just spread out like a 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.520 germ like It was the single point that that UK 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.800 punk spread out from and this was UH June of 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:36.160 and within six months, the major record labels were lining 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.040 up to sign any and every punk act they could 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.000 get their hands on. Six months Like That's so not 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.919 only did it spread and grow in parallel around the 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.000 world at the same time when it hit the scene. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.400 It's hard to overstate how quickly it just blew up, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:19:00.520 like just from nothing to it in six months. Yeah. 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.360 I mean, if there's one thing I mean, I don't 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.840 I don't know about the music industry today, but previous 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.600 to you know, digital content, the music industry was always 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.200 there waiting to commodify the next big thing. Yeah, and 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.240 they did it to punk big time. Yeah. So let's 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.200 talk about this d I Y thing for a little bit. 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.919 It was really cool this article about these um, these 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.080 d I Y origins in punk music. What happened was 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.639 when punk started coming around in the mid nineteen seventies. 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:33.439 This coincided with a big shift in UH equipment and 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.320 recording gear and modernizing recording gear among the big labels. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.680 Yeah sure, um, And so all of a sudden there 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.760 was all of this these rooms in this gear that 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.160 you could either rent cheap or buy cheap. Yeah, they're 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.439 old stuff that they didn't need anymore. Yeah, and so 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.479 the punks came along and UH started using it, and 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.360 the very first punk labels were self started, Miles Copeland 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.320 started Step Forward, Bob Last started Fast Product, and of 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.160 course very Miss Lee Tony Wilson started Factory Records. Yes dude, which, 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.160 by the way, see Party of People if you never 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.120 have Everybody. It's amazing to see that again. I saw 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.720 it once when it came out. Yeah, it's a good movie. Um, 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.119 but it follows this progression of punk into new wave, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.000 UH into the eighties. Um. It just does it in 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.199 a spectacularly great way because it's Steve Coogan who's created 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:29.880 so good. But people trace the um punk on record 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:35.800 or on recorded tape rather to the very first single 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.200 they claim very first punk single November seventy six, The 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:43.200 Damns New Rows, which I thought that was weird because 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:47.200 the Ramons released their album before them. But maybe because 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.359 the Ramons were on the label when they release their album, 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.040 they're saying like this is the first d I y, 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.359 maybe when was the Ramons first? Off? I think like 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.479 the full year before. I'm pretty sure, if not at 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.520 least seventy six, then but I'm pretty sure. Well, the 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:03.840 buzz Cox put out an EP and I listened to 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.280 a lot of that today. I enjoyed that UM Spiral 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:11.120 Scratch was this EP was apparently the first British homemade 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.359 record and that was a really big deal. Uh, this 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.879 is a seven. They sold out a thousand copies that 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.040 they printed, then they went on to sell another sixteen 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:25.520 thousand and UM. The influence on Spiral Scratch really spread 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.400 out and told everyone because they printed it was very cool. 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:32.000 They printed on the little record jacket like how much 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.320 it cost, how they produced it, and what the money 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.000 was all about for a hundred and fifty three pounds, 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.880 basically saying go do this right, like and here's how 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.840 to do it. Yeah. Um they all all like. That 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.080 kind of set the tone for other records, like other 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:50.679 punk bands released their own records, also included instructions on 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.159 their sleeve that the record came in UM and the 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.240 whole d I Y record released thing that the buzz 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.760 Cox kicked off. UM. Other people started to find other 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:06.240 ways to to kind of make it so punk could 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.560 exist outside of the influence of the record companies, Like 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:15.320 people would release records in zip block baggies Like that 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.439 was the record sleeve that your record came in and 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:19.520 people loved it like you didn't You didn't need like 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.119 this expensive sleeve for the thing to come in, Like 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.280 you could just pop it in for in a zip 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:29.679 block bag and sell it. It's super punk. And then also, um, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.840 if you can form a band that it was put 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.760 like this, like the sex Pistol showed that anybody could 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:38.639 be in a punk band. You didn't even need be 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:40.960 very talented, right, you didn't even need to know how 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.600 to play an instrument. Um, and you could be in 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.479 a punk band. And the buzz Cocks came along and 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.359 showed that anybody could press a record. But there's still 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:53.879 one very essential ingredient missing, and that was distribution. And 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:56.200 like you said, mail order made up for a lot 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:01.520 of the Buzzcocks ep UM sales. But they they realized 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:03.399 that there were more people out there who wanted this 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.159 stuff but didn't have a way to get to it. 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.880 So a what was called the Cartel was formed, which 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:12.160 was a group of independent record stores around the UK 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:18.040 that would basically serve as a distribution network for these 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:22.280 d I Y punk records. So cool um. Not only 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:26.320 that but zines were very important early on and the 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:28.800 punk and really kind of a lot of music genres. 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.800 Zines were really big. Which are these, you know, fan 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:35.280 made magazines? Yeah, maybe with like photocopy, you don't even 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.679 photo copy like mimiographs stuff, yep, And you would just 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:39.560 pronount your zine. And some of these zanes got to 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:42.680 be pretty big and they would attach distribution to the 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:46.320 zines sometimes and sneak forty five not sneaking, but a 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.119 pack of forty five in the zine, and that's how 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:51.640 you could release your stuff. And it was just this 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.440 uh again. It sounds so trite to say, very punk 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:57.080 rock attitude, but that's exactly what it was. The way 0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:59.440 they were doing things was all under the radar, all 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:03.359 on their own, uh. And that changed pretty quickly. It 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:07.959 did is because the the big, the big players came in. 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:11.280 They smelled money, they smelled something new, the next big thing, 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:15.080 and they started signing everybody they could left and right. 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.920 And these punks were going like, nah, bollocks, I don't 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:19.720 want your money. They're like, what if we pay you 0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:22.720 in heroin? They said, okay, yeah, I like it that 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:27.200 you could buy drugs with money, right, So um again 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:31.720 within six months of what most people point to as 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:36.320 the source of UK punk, that one specific show by 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.600 the sex Pistols. The sex Pistons were so new. Sid 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:42.640 Vicious wasn't even in the band. He was still Susie 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.919 and the Banshee's drummer. So this is how young this 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:48.560 stuff was. Within six months they were signed on to 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.320 a major record label. The Clash was signed onto a 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.760 major record label, The Fall, the Jam, the Stranglers, everybody 0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:59.919 got signed in this feeding frenzy where everyone who had 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:03.679 punk band could get a record deal with a major label. 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.720 Six months after The sex Epistols had their first show, Yeah, 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:10.040 Generation X with a young Billy idol, Uh, which I 0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:12.240 did ever do? That? Danceing with Myself was originally a 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:15.840 Generation X song. They released it, then he re released 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:18.119 it as a solo artist like a year later and 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:20.280 it became a much bigger hit. Sure, they were like 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:22.919 thanks a lot, but yeah, sex Pistols went with E 0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:27.000 M I UM, the Stranglers at you A. The Clash 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:30.679 signed to CBS, The Jam went to Polydor, Generation X 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.560 and Stiff Little Fingers went to Chrysalis and even the 0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:36.560 Buzz Cox. They were very quick to hop on that 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:39.600 train too with United Artists, which actually that's not too bad. 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:42.199 You could have signed with worse because United Artists was 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:47.960 started by Mary Pickford, Douglas Fairbanks, um, Charlie Chaplin in 0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:52.000 d W. Griffith so that artists could have more control 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.080 and ownership over their work. Yeah. I mean it was 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:56.200 a movie company, and I guess they dabbled in records. 0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:01.679 So one of three things happened basedically to the little 0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:05.560 d I Y small label movement. Um you either got Pilford. 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:09.159 They use one example in Belfast, the Good Vibrations label. 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:13.119 Four of its first six bands were stolen away or 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:15.840 signed away. I guess so either got Pilford and then 0:26:15.960 --> 0:26:19.399 just shut down and gave up. Um Or you grew 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:21.800 and got bigger to where you were, you know, like 0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:25.320 Rough Trade and Factory Records, those all became like bigger 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:29.040 independent labels. Yeah, rough Trades still around. They have state 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.359 of the art, cutting edge bands. It's great. Um Or 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:38.120 they stayed small and just kept going right, they went 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.600 punk and went back underground. Yeah, like so they didn't 0:26:41.600 --> 0:26:43.960 all go away. They didn't all say, you know, we're 0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:46.320 all getting Pilford, so we're just gonna shut down. They 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:49.119 would just find more underground bands and go deeper and 0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:52.439 deeper and deeper. But then, um, something happened in nineteen 0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:54.719 seventy nine February of nineteen seventy nine that a lot 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:56.600 of people point to, Just as they point to that 0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:59.720 first sex Pistols show as the beginning of punk in 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:02.320 the u K. They point to the death of Sid 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:05.720 Vicious as the end of punk, at least the first 0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:10.760 wave of punk. His death from a heroin overdose um 0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:13.840 is widely pointed to as as the death of punk, 0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:17.520 which is a really dumb thing to say, because Punk 0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:20.960 very clearly went on. But what I think people are saying, sorry, 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:23.000 I guess it's not entirely dumb now that I say 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:25.679 it out loud, But what people are saying is is 0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:29.760 that punk transformed into something else and that punk really 0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:33.399 as as it originally existed, was only around for about 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:37.879 to three years, maybe four or five. Some people at 0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:40.400 a bar right now that are just saying that over 0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:43.800 and over again, punk only the last said three years. Okay, well, 0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:47.040 I agree with you, drunk person in this sense, but 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:49.760 it's not like punk went away. It transformed and became 0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:54.360 something else, And so what had transitioned into is commonly 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:59.920 called hardcore hardcore punk, where stuff just got faster, louder, 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:04.600 a little angrier. Yeah. Um, and it just went in 0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:09.920 in a different direction, predominantly in the United States. Yeah, 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:12.960 and there were there were a couple of scenes. Um, 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:15.080 the l A scene had already sort of been born 0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.560 by the late seventies. Uh, if you haven't seen it. 0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:23.000 The great documentary from Penelope spheris The Decline of Western Civilization, 0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.479 released in eighty one but filmed over I think eight 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:30.200 maybe covered the l A scene. And that's the Germs 0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:33.960 and uh like I think Blondie and the Go Goes 0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:38.480 and stuff like that. Alright, York the best sets ever 0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:42.440 in the Decline of Western Civilization. Yes, it's very good. 0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:45.440 And the Germs too, That's where I was. I was 0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:47.520 watching some of that today and that's when I knew 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.640 I didn't like the germs. Right. But Pat Smir of 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:53.160 course the food Fighters, he was in the Germs. You know, 0:28:53.520 --> 0:28:56.400 he'd liked money. And also if you're like, who's Penelope Spheres, 0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:58.720 you may be familiar with their work. If you've seen 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:01.560 the movie Waynes World, that's right, or the movie Black Sheet, 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:05.280 The Chris Farley David Spade movie or the Decline of 0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:07.760 Western Civilization. I think she'd ended up doing like three 0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:09.840 or four of those, right, at least three, because I 0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:12.000 know she didnt want to metal. The second one was metal, 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:14.480 which is good too. Yeah, that's the only two I saw. 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:17.600 Did you ever see that documentary about um heavy metal 0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:21.400 Parking Lot? Yes, yeah, where everybody's smoking PCP at did 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:23.760 Judas Priest concert. Yeah, it's pretty great. Did you know 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:27.680 early eighties metal head smoked PCP. No, I didn't until 0:29:27.680 --> 0:29:31.640 the documentary because it was quite a surprise. No, I 0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:33.880 was scared of all those people. Well, they're kind of 0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:37.000 scary because they were all on PCP, especially when you're 0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:42.200 like eight or ten. So American. Uh. We were talking 0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:44.640 about the you know punk bands releasing their own albums. 0:29:44.720 --> 0:29:48.320 This started having on the West coast. Um. They started 0:29:48.320 --> 0:29:52.440 forming their own labels even to release their albums and 0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:57.240 sign other like bands like SST. Very famous punk label 0:29:57.640 --> 0:30:00.320 was started from the guy, the original guy for Black 0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:05.400 Flag right, Yes, Uh, what's his name? Greg? G? I 0:30:05.560 --> 0:30:09.000 n n either again or Jin. I'm sorry punkers, I 0:30:09.040 --> 0:30:10.520 know you're mad at me right now that I don't 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:12.960 know this. Yeah, I think he was like the founder 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:18.800 of Black Flag. Okay, uh Jello Biafro of course, um 0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:24.760 Dead Kennedy's they formed or he formed Alternative Tentacles. Yeah, 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:28.640 in ninety nine and seventy nine was a big year 0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:31.480 because that's the same year that a band called Bad 0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:36.720 Brains came out in Washington, d C. Which I didn't love. 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:41.840 Did you see the Dave Gold documentary series? So I 0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:43.320 can't remember what it was called, but he did this 0:30:43.400 --> 0:30:45.800 like ten part documentary series where he would do the 0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:49.960 music of a different city and it was really really good, 0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:52.200 except for the last like fifteen minutes of it. He 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.480 would get the Food Fighters together in a studio and 0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:57.200 they would play like some of those songs and if 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.440 you're really into the food Fighters, imagine you loved it all. 0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:02.400 Not into the Food Fighters, So I would just stop 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:06.040 it there. But he does Seattle. But what got me 0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:08.520 on this was one of the most interesting episodes was 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:11.720 the Washington, DC episode because I didn't know it was 0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:15.800 such a hardcore scene. Like that's where when people talk 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.440 about hardcore, yeah, they're like, well, DC is kind of 0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:20.880 the cradle of it. And Bad Brains, which my friend 0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:24.320 Jason Jenkins in college introduced me to and that's when 0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:27.880 it was like really fast, had a little metal edge, 0:31:28.320 --> 0:31:30.920 but Bad Brains was also started out as like jazz 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:34.840 fusion and had reggae roots. Also African American guys, four 0:31:34.920 --> 0:31:38.680 of them, Yeah, and um, really really good stuff. Yeah. 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:42.520 So you've got at the same time l A and 0:31:42.800 --> 0:31:46.720 d C as the new like seats of punk music 0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:49.600 in the US punk slash hardcore, and it's going it's 0:31:49.600 --> 0:31:53.040 going like way more hardcore, way more masculine, way more 0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:57.160 macho than the UK went. The UK went a different route. 0:31:57.200 --> 0:32:01.959 They went way more political, way more like class struggle. Um. 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:05.880 And there's there's definitely lots of political threads that um, 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:09.080 American punk music went through, but I think the UK 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:12.720 went to it earlier. Like Crass is a great, great 0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:16.120 punk band from the UK. Um, they're kind of like, uh, 0:32:16.360 --> 0:32:19.440 they're just great, check them out. Um. But they were 0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:22.760 doing like anarchy stuff in the seventies. Yeah. The Clash 0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:27.200 certainly is notable for their political statement, very political. Um. 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:29.720 And then you've got like the Six Sex Pistols talking 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:31.800 about anarchy in the UK. They didn't really mean it, 0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:34.160 they were just saying something right, Um, But there were 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:38.080 a lot of like politically motivated bands in the UK 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:40.560 in the early seventies that didn't pick up till later 0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:44.240 in the eighties in the US certainly were not politically 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:46.600 they were not political. But the other thing, the other 0:32:46.640 --> 0:32:50.480 differentiation I saw between UK and US punk was that 0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:54.880 UK punk didn't take itself quite as seriously as the 0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:58.120 US started to in the late seventies early eighties, and 0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:01.000 that this guy I read to I think a Guardian 0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:04.080 article trace that back to a love of glam rock. 0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:08.080 That glam rock really led to punk, especially in the UK, 0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:10.640 and if you're into glam rock, you just can't quite 0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:15.360 take anything fully seriously, including punk music and the the US. 0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:18.640 Even though punk came out of the New York Dolls 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:22.920 in part um, which was definitely glam rock, Um, it 0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:27.040 just didn't have that that through thread. So it did 0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:29.440 get taken way more seriously. And that was a big 0:33:29.480 --> 0:33:32.200 part of hardcore and what differentiated it from the earlier 0:33:32.240 --> 0:33:35.719 punk taking things really really seriously and it being a 0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:39.720 little more political than ever before, and um angsty against 0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:42.640 things like the boredom of suburban life. Yeah, I mean, 0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:44.960 I think punk is just as important for things that 0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:49.480 it uh inspired that happened afterward as it was the 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:52.680 actual movement itself, because you can point to stuff in 0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:57.320 Minneapolis like Whosker Do or bands like the Minutemen, who 0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:01.600 I loved and they had a very sound to them, 0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:04.920 and maybe you're even considered punk, probably post punk post 0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:08.880 I think MENI Men are considered punk, but Hoosker Do 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:12.319 would definitely be post post punk, and stuff like Sonic Youth, 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:15.080 which I would call them post punk to post punk, 0:34:15.880 --> 0:34:19.600 straddling into the early grunge though too. Well yeah, I 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:21.640 mean it's like it's hard to it's easy sometimes to 0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:24.200 trace that through line and sometimes it's really difficult. But 0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:26.319 we want to. We want to be able to say, like, 0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:31.160 you know, it went from Um from Bad Brains to 0:34:31.239 --> 0:34:35.919 Hoosker Do to Sonic Youth to Nirvana, you know, four 0:34:35.960 --> 0:34:40.400 Degrees of Nirvana and they're going, what about us, right exactly? UM, 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:43.000 But you just you can't. But at the same time, 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:47.280 you also can't discount the effects that these later bands 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:51.480 UM got from the earth listening to the earlier bands 0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:55.040 that came before him, Like, there's undoubtedly an influence, it's 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:57.799 just not quite as crisp and clean as as we 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:00.719 like to make it. Yeah, And it's even argued in 0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:04.040 one of these articles that the the birth of hardcore 0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:07.239 came about because, like you kind of teased earlier on, 0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:12.279 because punk, you know, flouts the rules and norms of 0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:14.680 rock and roll. Then they formed their own rules and 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:18.759 norms and we're really pretty serious about it, and so 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:21.920 hardcore came along because they didn't quite fit in with that, 0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:26.920 the true punk aesthetic. They took punk even further because 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:30.959 punk was being commodified and commercialized otherwise, that's right, which 0:35:30.960 --> 0:35:33.520 would make it kind of easier to break from, especially 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:37.520 if you just go slightly angrier and faster and louder. Right, 0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:40.080 But you also can look at the stuff like you 0:35:40.160 --> 0:35:43.839 talk about tracing the through line. Um, if you want 0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:46.360 to think about early Manchester and stuff like Joy Division 0:35:47.160 --> 0:35:51.840 that goes to New Order that goes to Orchestral Maneuvers 0:35:51.840 --> 0:35:53.520 in the Dark and Simple Minds and all of a 0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:56.680 sudden it's John Hughes soundtrack and it's hard. It's then 0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:59.560 it's like what is punk about anything? And that like 0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:01.759 sort of after new Wave. But at the same time 0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:04.239 you can also say, well, New Order was just straight 0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:07.279 up new wave, but then new Wave caught on and 0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:10.000 got commercialized and commodified, and then you end up having 0:36:10.040 --> 0:36:13.040 a John Hughes soundtrack because the record labels got ahold 0:36:13.040 --> 0:36:16.719 of the new wave band. Right. So that's kind of 0:36:16.760 --> 0:36:20.440 like the story with music is somebody comes up with 0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:25.800 something raw and organic and rebellious, everybody loves it. The 0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:29.000 big guys come along, get their hands on it, co opted, 0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:33.320 commodify it, commercialize it, ruin it, and then some thread 0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:36.920 kind of jumps off of that and it starts something else, 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:39.200 and the whole thing always it just continues on and 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:43.279 continues on, except until the mid two thousands when music 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.480 died forever and ever and ever. Alright, well, let's take 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:49.160 another break here and we'll talk a little bit about 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:52.960 the end of punk. And before that, maybe we'll hit 0:36:53.000 --> 0:37:09.880 on the fashion of punk. Oh boy, okay, chuck um, 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:16.080 we're talking fashion of punk. Yeah, so every every genre 0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:19.239 has its own look. Well, I cannot remember what it 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:23.279 had to have been the safety pin short stuff where 0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:27.480 we talked about Richard Hell being considered the guy who 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:31.959 started the safety pin as a fashion statement, pretty shirt. 0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:33.680 But it was Richard Hell. He was the guitarist for 0:37:33.760 --> 0:37:37.000 television and he was like the first guy with the mohawk, 0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:40.959 like the Elmer's glue kind of mohawk and safety pins 0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:45.000 holding his shirt together, which is I mean, that's quintessential punk. 0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:47.480 But at the same time, dressing like a Ramon as 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:51.120 quintessential punk too, with like the jeans with the knees 0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:55.480 in it, back jeans Doc Martin's or Converse low tops 0:37:55.960 --> 0:38:00.480 or Converse high tops. Uh. Black biker jacket. Yeah. The 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:04.040 New York Dolls were very famous for wearing the Jeane jackets, 0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:07.000 super super small. That jokes in this article that they 0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:10.600 could barely fit in them. Right. They also wore super 0:38:10.680 --> 0:38:14.200 tight lycra shiny pants and stuff too. Yeah, but they 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:18.920 were glam but that it was really those black ripped jeans. Uh. 0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:20.840 And this was a time where that wasn't like the 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:23.239 cool thing to wear if you you didn't walk around 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:26.760 with holes. And you know, now it's become a recurring 0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:29.239 thing in fashion to have holes in your jeans being cool. 0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:32.239 At the time, it was not cool. Admit that you 0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:36.279 were poor exactly. Man. This was like somebody in this 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:39.759 article I think from Pitchfork said, you know, Dee de 0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:44.800 Ramon had uhum holes in the knees of his jeans. 0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:47.279 Not because it was cool, but because he didn't have 0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:49.800 any money for some new genes and those his jeans 0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:51.719 has had holes in them, so that's what he wore. 0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:55.520 Now you pay like a hundred or two hundred bucks 0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:58.960 for jeanes that have pre ripped holes that are just right. Yeah, 0:38:59.440 --> 0:39:03.520 that's a of ag example of the commodity commoditization of punk. Yeah, 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:06.520 for sure. Uh other you know, in l A they 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:09.520 have their own fashion scene going on because it's l 0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:13.080 A and they don't have harsh winters in cold, rainy weather, 0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:16.960 so they went to the thrift stores and bought things 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:19.279 and cut them up. And that's where you you never 0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:22.200 saw a shirt on a punk in the l A 0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:24.480 scene that didn't have like the net cut out or 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.719 the sleeves cut off, or in the case of the 0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:31.360 Go Goes in their earlier punk days, wearing like literal 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:36.520 trash bags as fashion. Very funny and blondie too. They 0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:39.880 all had a very like specific aesthetic in Los Angeles. 0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:42.600 It's interesting that the Go go started out on the 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:46.880 punk scene when they were I think to the casual 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:50.920 UH music fan known very much for just sort of 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:55.040 a bubblegum sing along pop hits that they had just 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:57.680 lovable as all get out as all get out great 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:00.440 songs and blend Carlisle too, like her soul of stuff 0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:04.160 is yeah, just kiss everybody. You couldn't see that, but 0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:07.160 that's what I get. But it's that whole pop punk thing, 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:10.120 which is kind of where it started to go bad. 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.280 You could make the case that starting in the beginning 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:18.759 of nine seven, when all those first record labels came 0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:24.400 in and started to go bad. Then, but hardcore here's 0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:27.000 this is where I This is my reading of this, okay, 0:40:27.040 --> 0:40:29.560 and I'm not a punk or even music historian by 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:31.800 any stretch of the imagination, but from what I gathered 0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:37.920 from this research is that early punk got co opted 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:42.799 and commodified by the record labels immediately hardcore grew out 0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:46.520 of that. Hardcore is way harder to commodify because it's 0:40:46.600 --> 0:40:50.440 much more raw, there's much less melodic, it's much more 0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:54.080 in your face and angry than the original was. And 0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:59.600 it's also jealously guarded and defended by the fans, where 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:01.600 at the getting of the show we're saying, please don't 0:41:01.600 --> 0:41:03.840 beat us up. Like if you go to a hardcore 0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:07.480 show and they think your opposer like you may get 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:09.640 beaten up if this is the eighties or the nineties, 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:11.440 I don't know if they still do it today. I 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:15.960 remember feeling that threat. Oh yeah, it was the punks 0:41:16.000 --> 0:41:18.640 at the school, Like you didn't want to cross them. 0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:21.160 That was part of being a punk, was like you 0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:24.839 beat somebody up to basically defend punk, don't to keep 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:29.120 it from getting commodified. Like like seeing kids like wear 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:31.719 Thrasher T shirts today and they have no idea what 0:41:31.840 --> 0:41:35.239 Thrasher is. Like it's like, if you did that with 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:37.640 punk in the eighties and nineties, you would get beaten up, 0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:40.799 maybe even at school, definitely at a punk show. And 0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:43.719 so in doing so, they were able to defend hardcore 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:49.000 from commoditization because they kept it their own violently. But 0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:51.360 at the same time, they also it's kind of like 0:41:51.400 --> 0:41:54.520 how a language evolves the more people speak it and 0:41:54.560 --> 0:41:58.560 the more free and easy the rules on it are. 0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:02.279 By by doing these very tight restrictions on what's punk 0:42:02.360 --> 0:42:04.360 and what's not punking, he's allowed to come to a 0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:07.279 punk show, which is super ironic for punks to do. 0:42:07.400 --> 0:42:10.839 To come up with all these rules and regulations, they 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:13.680 kept it from evolving, and they definitely kept it underground, 0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:17.319 and it's still around today. But it's the same thing 0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:20.440 over and over again because it wasn't allowed to grow 0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:22.600 and evolved, because the fans have kept it, at least 0:42:22.600 --> 0:42:28.759 in America, have kept it underground, uh, purposely, deliberately, invioluently. 0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:31.719 So punks killed punk kind of, they would argue, No 0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:33.680 punks still around. I go see punk shows all the 0:42:33.680 --> 0:42:35.480 time and don't come to it because your opposer and 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.120 will beat you up. So they're still punk. But as 0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:41.640 far as like you and I walking around are concerned, 0:42:41.680 --> 0:42:45.239 punk is dead as a doornail for now, Yeah, for now? Well, 0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.399 I mean I remember when we did our UK tour, 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:50.719 remember seeing a group of punks in Manchester that looked 0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:54.040 like they stepped right out of one with the full 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:58.880 spiked mohawks and the leather studded leather collars. And I 0:42:58.960 --> 0:43:02.000 was scared of him a little bit. You're like, those 0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:03.360 are bad kids. Are going to try to get me 0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:06.120 to smooth down to do a podcast? Right? Well, what's 0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:09.000 funny is is that fashion that you're talking about, that 0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:14.040 quintessential punk fashion that was a commodification immediately to the 0:43:14.080 --> 0:43:16.759 sex Pistols manager used to be the manager of the 0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:20.960 New York Dolls, Malcolm McLaren and he owned a shop 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:25.440 Gonna b D S m Um fashion shop with Vivian 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:29.080 Westwood in London, and he basically used the sex Pistols 0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:31.320 to promote the fashion he was selling at his shop, 0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:33.880 to make it fashionable so we could sell more clothes. 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.239 This is the manager of the first UK punk band 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:39.799 ever well, and he had put them together, right. It's 0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:42.439 not like essentially the sex Pistols all got together because 0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:45.080 they were mates. Like they were formed by a manager. Yes, 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:47.480 by this guy Malcolm. They were the monkeys kind of. 0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:49.680 They were the monkeys of punk. They were the punkies. 0:43:49.760 --> 0:43:51.959 So many people are mad at us right now, for sure, 0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:53.920 but it's true. I mean, go look up your history 0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:55.680 if your punks are gonna beat us up next time. 0:43:55.719 --> 0:43:58.919 We got some some thirteen year old just looked done 0:43:58.920 --> 0:44:01.200 at their sher and win. That's what the sex Pistols are. 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:04.319 I had no idea. Well, it's funny though you talk 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:08.680 about the the pins and the it was all homemade stuff, 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:11.799 like I remember it being a very I mean I 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:15.120 was certainly way too square, but I remember seeing the 0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:19.319 punks in my school doing stuff to their clothes during 0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:22.080 class and at lunch and thinking it was the coolest thing, 0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:26.560 whether it was black magic black Sharpie doing the Dead 0:44:26.600 --> 0:44:29.480 Kennedy's or the anarchy symbol. Well, the Dead Kennedys did 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:31.719 have the coolest symbol round, it was pretty cool. Or 0:44:31.840 --> 0:44:35.440 just fraying their fraying their jackets or adding safety pins, 0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:37.920 it was all. It was all created out of that 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:42.560 homemade aesthetic sort of like the music and it and 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:44.920 it appealed to me, but I was afraid of it. 0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:47.919 And now that's why I'm just now starting to listen 0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:49.839 to some of this music. Are you gonna turn all 0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:53.800 punk now? Maybe? Okay, that would be one of the 0:44:53.840 --> 0:44:57.600 bigger surprises you've ever laid on me, man. But pop 0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:00.279 punk we should talk a little bit about. Um they 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:03.840 call it bitter sweet in this article. Um sweet in 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:06.000 the sense that you could get tons of money and 0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:09.400 be super famous, but bitter because you know, it's spawned 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:11.120 a genre that I think a lot of true punk's 0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:15.280 really loathe. Like I think true punks like a square 0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:21.080 more than they like Blink Indubita, you know, uh, and 0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:23.200 that you know that whole scene, the Van's Warped Tour 0:45:23.360 --> 0:45:25.719 and the Rancid and the Offspring and Green Day and 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:28.480 all these groups was a part of a big second 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:31.520 wave of these kids who grew up definitely listening to 0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:34.160 that stuff, and I guess feeling like they were a 0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:36.360 part of it. I mean, I'm sure Green Day really 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:39.400 feels like they're a punk band and part of a 0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:42.399 punk movement. Whereas I remember the first time I heard 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:45.000 Green Day thinking these are guys pretending to be a 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:47.959 punk band, which is a really cruddy thing to say, 0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:51.080 but I mean it is. It's like, it's totally understandable 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:55.640 how you would think that, but they they are. It 0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:57.879 is punk in some way, shape or form. It's punk. 0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:00.680 The stuff they're talking about is pretty punk. Um, but 0:46:00.800 --> 0:46:06.840 punk bands don't release acoustic songs. Definitely not the first 0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:09.880 the first album Dukie, right, that is what we're talking about. 0:46:10.040 --> 0:46:11.640 I guess was that the first one? I think so. 0:46:11.800 --> 0:46:13.440 I just remember hearing it and going like, why is 0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:16.120 that guy trying to sound British? Well that's pretty punk, 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:19.279 first big hit. It's very punk, yeah, for sure, an 0:46:19.320 --> 0:46:23.160 American kid trying to sound British. So um, but yeah, 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:25.200 I don't. I would guess you're right though, there on 0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:28.040 Broadway that punks for God's sake, Well, Yeah, there was 0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:31.520 a brief, shining moment where you could have conceivably called 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:35.160 them a punk band. Here's the thing, though, man, people 0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:39.319 like money. Yeah, but that's been a through not just 0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:43.200 in the punk scene, but but it's just a music 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:46.600 in general. Although hats off to the punk culture for 0:46:47.400 --> 0:46:50.439 keeping it at bay better than anybody ever has any 0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:52.120 other genre I would like to hear. I'm sure there 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:55.640 are people listening that Noah punk bands that did stick 0:46:55.680 --> 0:46:58.040 their middle finger up to the money and say nope, 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:01.520 I can tell you one. Fugazi. Uh, well, I loved 0:47:01.520 --> 0:47:07.160 Pughassi DC or I guess hardcore um and they I 0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:10.480 think they formed Discord Records. If not, they're a big 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:14.279 act on Discord Records. And they have done this whole 0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:17.200 d I Y thing, like from the get go, they've 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:19.960 they've issued the major labels as far as I know 0:47:20.440 --> 0:47:24.319 their whole career, and they were extremely successful despite that. Yeah, 0:47:24.400 --> 0:47:27.200 I saw them in Athens once. Oh yeah, what do 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:29.520 you think that was great? This is you know, I 0:47:29.520 --> 0:47:32.200 think they got together in the like seven ishi and 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:37.120 this was more like okay, well, they were still huge 0:47:37.120 --> 0:47:39.680 and probably bigger. That was when they were at their height. 0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:42.680 I would guess. I mean technically they had a I 0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:45.320 don't know about how it performed on the literal charts, 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:47.719 but they had that one song that had a big 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:50.919 MTV hit, Waiting Room. Yeah, it's a good song. It's 0:47:50.920 --> 0:47:54.440 a really good song. Um So I just want to 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:57.680 give some shouts out anybody who's like, this is really interesting. 0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:01.239 I want to know more. Go listen to the Cramps. 0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:06.120 I would recommend the Cramps, listen to Crass, Go watch 0:48:06.160 --> 0:48:10.440 the Decline of Western Civilization. Definitely check out the Circle Jerks, 0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:14.400 um who else? Chuck, I'm gonna say that for my picks, 0:48:14.640 --> 0:48:18.279 Bad Brains, and the Damned. Okay, for sure, I'm gonna 0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:21.239 toss g. G Allen out there, although he kind of 0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:25.759 transcends everything just punk and you were sending me some um. 0:48:25.800 --> 0:48:27.479 I didn't catch any of the names, but she said 0:48:27.480 --> 0:48:29.920 there's a big punk scene in Japan still. And that 0:48:30.000 --> 0:48:32.560 was another thing too. Somebody said punk's not dying, it's 0:48:32.560 --> 0:48:36.640 just coming up in other places, like um, in Islamic countries, 0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:38.879 there's a big punk movement. I saw Mexico has got 0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:41.520 a big one right now. Apparently Japan has it. And 0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:46.600 then there's a whole riot girl feminist punk that is. Man, 0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:50.880 If that's not punk, I don't know like Eastern block punk, right, girls, 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.799 So punk is still alive. Punk not dead? Punk? No dead, 0:48:55.920 --> 0:48:59.040 Punk's not dead. Okay. If you want to know more 0:48:59.040 --> 0:49:01.480 about punk music, go listen to that stuff we just 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:04.200 told you to go listen to. And since I said 0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:08.279 that's time for listener mail. If you want to learn 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:10.640 more about punk music, you can probably go to literally 0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:12.799 any other place other than this episode and learn more 0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:15.239 about If you want to know more about punk music, 0:49:15.280 --> 0:49:18.440 go to your local library and read up. It's fundamental. 0:49:19.640 --> 0:49:22.640 All right, guys, I'm gonna call this uh poop no 0:49:22.840 --> 0:49:25.759 no poop. On that short stuff about the guy who 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:28.600 didn't eat for a year. Uh, we talked about the 0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:31.399 fact that he didn't poop that much, and she said 0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:36.080 this is the norm for people with a colostomy or iliostomy. 0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:39.520 I had a temporary iliostomy and ostomy connected to the 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:43.400 ilium instead of the colon due to Crone's complications. My 0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:46.279 colon was completely severed from the rest of my digestive 0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:50.480 system during this time and basically sat dormant while food 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:55.040 exited into an ostomy pouch. No food means no poop, 0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:57.600 but the body still produces a normal gut stuff like 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:00.360 mucus and cells and needs to evacuate on a Asian 0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:03.120 which I think, Well, that's what we talked about for 0:50:03.200 --> 0:50:06.640 people with years about issues such as pain and running 0:50:06.640 --> 0:50:08.400 to the bathroom every thirty minutes. This can be a 0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:13.000 literal lifesaver. Anyway, my colon is currently now reattached to 0:50:13.120 --> 0:50:16.320 the rest of my intestine and my crones is in remission. 0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:19.160 I had no idea. So this person had a colostomy 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:23.560 and it was reversed. Yes, that's I had no idea 0:50:23.600 --> 0:50:25.600 they could do that. Yeah, we should do something on 0:50:25.680 --> 0:50:29.000 crones and just tie all the stuff together. I just 0:50:29.040 --> 0:50:31.960 wanted to give you a little perspective on the topic. Um, actually, 0:50:31.960 --> 0:50:34.160 ostomes would be an interesting topic for you to tackle. 0:50:34.719 --> 0:50:36.960 Thanks for doing the best podcast around. According to my 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:41.640 podcast app, I've listened to over four hundred episodes. Yikes, Well, 0:50:41.800 --> 0:50:46.840 Sonia in Canada, you have another what seven fifty, eight hundred? 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:49.960 What are we up to? Now? What number of episodes? 0:50:50.920 --> 0:50:53.880 Eight fifty we're up to? Like, well, she's listened to 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:57.960 four hundred. Okay, so just do a little math. Okay, 0:50:58.040 --> 0:51:00.480 hold on, So another like eight hundred or so. Yeah, 0:51:00.480 --> 0:51:03.279 I would say something all right, well, you're a third 0:51:03.280 --> 0:51:07.160 of the way there, keep at it. Yeah, roughly, yeah, 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.120 you got a third. Guys shouldn't just seemed chuck like 0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:12.040 look up into the air from the side of his eye. 0:51:12.239 --> 0:51:14.440 She said, Uh, we'd love to see you to the 0:51:14.600 --> 0:51:17.440 come out to the Prairie provinces. So I know in 0:51:17.480 --> 0:51:20.000 Canada we do Toronto and Vancouver, but there's a lot 0:51:20.000 --> 0:51:21.640 of country in the middle there that we should probably 0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:23.920 go to at some point. In the US would call 0:51:23.960 --> 0:51:29.240 them flyover states Canada, they call it Prairie country. Right. Well, 0:51:29.520 --> 0:51:31.319 if you want to get in touch with this, like 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:35.360 did Sonia, thanks again, Sonia UM, you can go on 0:51:35.400 --> 0:51:37.160 to stuff you Should Know dot com and check out 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:39.799 our social links, and you can also send us an 0:51:39.800 --> 0:51:46.600 email to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff 0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:48.560 you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios. How 0:51:48.600 --> 0:51:51.239 stuff works. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio is 0:51:51.280 --> 0:51:53.759 at the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:51:53.840 --> 0:52:01.640 listen to your favorite shows.