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Speaker 1: Hello, Maine and Greater New England. We're coming to see

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Speaker 1: you guys in Portland and we can't wait. We would

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Speaker 1: love to see you there. Yep, we'll be at the

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Speaker 1: State Theater on August. If you're interested, you can get

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Speaker 1: tickets and information at s y s K live dot com.

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Speaker 1: There's some lobster at us. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you're welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.

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Speaker 1: Thrash core By I'm already regretting this. There's Chuck Bryan

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Speaker 1: over there, Charles W. Chuck Bryan, There's Jerry Droome Roland

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Speaker 1: and uh, like I said, I'm Josh should know. Hey, ho,

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Speaker 1: let's go exactly. I want to issue a c I

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Speaker 1: A off the top here, Okay, to fans of punk music,

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Speaker 1: get ready to be mad at us. Yeah, please don't

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Speaker 1: beat us up though. Yeah. Here's the thing. Punk it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like the hip hop episode. It's not just music,

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Speaker 1: it's a culture. It's a movement and it is so

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Speaker 1: there are so many tentacles, alternative tentacles, so many subgenres,

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Speaker 1: so many Like the more I started getting into it,

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Speaker 1: I was like, why are we even doing this in

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Speaker 1: a single episode. I had the same feeling because it

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Speaker 1: can only disappoint. But we're doing anything now. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people out there who don't know squad about punk.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be like, cool, I'm punk now, I get it,

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Speaker 1: and the people who are punked now we're gonna love

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Speaker 1: us for it. Well, I mean, you know, there are

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Speaker 1: certainly podcast I'm sure that are dedicated to the history

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Speaker 1: of punk right now. I know. And the thing is

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Speaker 1: is with a big distinction here between the hip hop

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Speaker 1: episode and this episode is that the hip hop episode

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Speaker 1: doesn't beat you up if you show up to it.

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Speaker 1: There shows and you're not wearing the right thing. That's true.

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Speaker 1: Punk's kind of protective of punk, which makes sense because

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Speaker 1: that's pretty punk, right, like you kinda you can't allow

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Speaker 1: for commercialization of punk or else it stops being punk.

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Speaker 1: So by definition it has to be vigilantly defended and protected.

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Speaker 1: But the irony of the whole thing is when you

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Speaker 1: do that, you actually strangle it from becoming anything ever,

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Speaker 1: and you kind of killed punk strangling in the cradle

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Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, And I listened to a lot of

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Speaker 1: music while researching this, and there's just so many things

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Speaker 1: that could possibly fall under the banner of punk, and

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Speaker 1: probably so many real punk fans that will fight you

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Speaker 1: on any of them if you say, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Talking Heads were punk, our television was punk, not really,

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Speaker 1: but were a new wave I don't know. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: New York Dolls, I was listening to them proto punk.

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Speaker 1: When you listen to them, though, they sound like sort

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Speaker 1: of like dressed up rock and roll, like rocky horror

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Speaker 1: picture show style, right, But make no bones about it,

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Speaker 1: the New York Dolls were a direct predecessor of punk. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But then I started listening to things I never listened

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Speaker 1: to growing up at all. Like I wasn't a punk kid,

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Speaker 1: but I saw all the Jackets with Minor Threat and

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Speaker 1: Circle Jerks and Dead Kennedy's on them, and I started

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Speaker 1: listening to that stuff today and I liked a lot

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Speaker 1: of it. It's good music, and some of it I

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Speaker 1: didn't quite love, Okay, which one I think. You know.

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Speaker 1: My deal is I like vocals and vocalists and punk

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Speaker 1: is not known for that. But stuff like that had

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Speaker 1: a really unique bent and it wasn't just screaming. I

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Speaker 1: liked a lot more so you like the Misfits a lot.

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Speaker 1: I like the Misfits, I like the Damned, I like

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Speaker 1: the Circle Jerks. Did not like the Germs. I was

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Speaker 1: never into the Germans. What about the Cramps? Uh, I

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Speaker 1: didn't listen to the Cramps yet, they're like rockabilly punk.

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Speaker 1: I'll probably like it. But stuff that had a little

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Speaker 1: more melody, little more vocal styling I liked much more

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Speaker 1: than the Germs, which you know, dar we crashed, just

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Speaker 1: it's just screaming things that you can hardly understand. Didn't

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Speaker 1: love Black Flag, What Little Icel listen to? Like the

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Speaker 1: Henry Rawlins black Flag. I listened to a little bit

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Speaker 1: of both. But um, it's all very interesting to me,

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Speaker 1: and I dig the music for sure. Yeah, it's hard

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Speaker 1: not to in some way, shape or form like punk

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Speaker 1: when you hear it like it's it's it's just too

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Speaker 1: it just gets under your skin just too easily, really quickly,

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Speaker 1: and you might not even realize, like you're like your

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Speaker 1: head's like kind of nodding in your knees like shaking

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But like, no matter who you are, punk

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Speaker 1: and get to you like that now, whether you're like

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna start buying punk records and like get a

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Speaker 1: mohawk or something like that. That's that's maybe a couple

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Speaker 1: of steps down the road. Most people probably wouldn't, but

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Speaker 1: I think everybody can appreciate punk on some level. Especially

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Speaker 1: to me. The greatest punk band of all time, and

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Speaker 1: what I would argue would be the first punk band

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Speaker 1: is the Remotes. If you like melody and you like singing,

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Speaker 1: but you also like punk, they've got everything you need. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And if you like songs that are seconds long, sure

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Speaker 1: well that was a big thing. Like punk grew out

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Speaker 1: of this idea that led Zeppelin had like eleven minutes

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Speaker 1: songs they were playing on the radio, and guys like

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Speaker 1: the Ramones were like shut up. So they purposefully and

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Speaker 1: deliberately went the opposite way and they started making songs

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Speaker 1: or sometimes less than a minute, like one of the

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Speaker 1: greatest punk songs of all time in my opinion, Circle

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Speaker 1: Jerk's Wasted is like fifty fifty two seconds long, Get

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Speaker 1: and get out. It's all you need. He gets the

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Speaker 1: point across. He talks about all the drugs he's on.

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Speaker 1: She talks about all the stuff he does when he's

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Speaker 1: on drugs. All unless than a minute. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: think you bring up an important point is punk was

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Speaker 1: a reaction. It was a reaction to the bloated money

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Speaker 1: and the bloated song links and the arena rock, Cucumber

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Speaker 1: in the pants, hard rock, Mackeismo getting the eighties. Like

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Speaker 1: this great quote from one of the Ramones, these were

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Speaker 1: kids on the outside and he said, Uh, Johnny Ramon

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Speaker 1: in ninety six and Rolling Stones said, you know, they

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Speaker 1: got together because none of them could get girls, so

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Speaker 1: they all found solace in each other. And he said

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Speaker 1: girls always wanted to go with guys who had corvettes,

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Speaker 1: so we had nothing to do but climb on rooftops

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Speaker 1: and sniff glue. The Rams in a nutshell. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at nineteen seventy seven, like the albums that

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Speaker 1: came out in nineteen seventy seven, Um, you know you've

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Speaker 1: got the sex Pistols and the Ramons and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: but you've got Eric Clapton, Slowhand, Fleetwood, Max Rumors, Point

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Speaker 1: of No Return from Kansas, Uh The Stranger from Billy Joel,

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Speaker 1: which one was that it was one of the great ones,

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Speaker 1: but they all work great. Uh Asia from Uh Steely

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Speaker 1: Dan and like these are like the big chart toppers,

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Speaker 1: and so punk came along and was just like, no,

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Speaker 1: screw through all that to heck with you guys, That's

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Speaker 1: what it says. So it was an ethos and a

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Speaker 1: spirit even as much as it was music. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I think, um one of the other things that commonly

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Speaker 1: ran across and researching this was that, um, it was

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Speaker 1: not just kind of like rock sucks because it's getting

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Speaker 1: so you know, eleven minutes long per song and there's

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Speaker 1: lots of guitar solos and stuff like that, but also

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Speaker 1: that it was hopelessly commercialized, and so punk was like,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing inherently wrong with rock, it's just gone on

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Speaker 1: this path that it's been on for so long that

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Speaker 1: it's it's just become I think, like you said, bloated, Um,

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Speaker 1: let's take rock back and scrape away all the all

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Speaker 1: the blow and just get back to like the core

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Speaker 1: and the point of it originally, which was rebellion, which

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Speaker 1: is that was what punk was built on in the

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Speaker 1: in the late seventies and the Ramons again, I will

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Speaker 1: go to my grave saying they were officially the first

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Speaker 1: punk band that ever existed, But there were there was

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Speaker 1: music that's that led up to that immediately before it,

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Speaker 1: and even a decade or so before it, that really

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Speaker 1: laid the foundation in the groundwork for for bands like

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Speaker 1: the Ramona and this the punk that that um, the

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Speaker 1: punk music that took off right afterwards. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: also got to remember that coming into the early seventies

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Speaker 1: where some of these proto punk bands started, this was

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Speaker 1: coming off of the late sixties and the hippie movement

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Speaker 1: and Nixon and Vietnam, which so all that had proved

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Speaker 1: a failure. Yeah, and and flower power and the peace

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Speaker 1: and love and all that stuff. Uh. There there's still

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Speaker 1: Crisy Stills and Nash and stuff hanging around, but there's

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Speaker 1: also a younger generation that thumb their nose or more

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Speaker 1: specifically their middle finger at that whole generation, and that's

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Speaker 1: what sort of birth the punk movement, in the proto

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Speaker 1: punk movement at least. So I saw the earliest proto

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Speaker 1: punk band I could find, um that you could trace

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Speaker 1: his line too, is actually from Peru, Okay. They were

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Speaker 1: around in nineteen starting in ur Los Sakos s A

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Speaker 1: I c O. S. And if you go listen to

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Speaker 1: a Los Sakos song, you will it's quite clear that

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Speaker 1: this was proto punk. Did it have the speed a

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Speaker 1: little bit? Yau, I think that's a bit of the distinction,

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Speaker 1: Like there was that whole uh Nuggets era garage rock

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Speaker 1: of the sixties. You can hear a little bit of that,

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Speaker 1: but it still didn't have that chugga chugga chugg a

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Speaker 1: speed that punk rock would be known for. You know

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Speaker 1: it did. Yeah, no, um, like another proto punk band

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Speaker 1: that's more garage rock, but kind of some of the

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Speaker 1: sentiments they came up with the Chocolate Watch band at

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Speaker 1: this anthem called like I'm not like everybody else and

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Speaker 1: it's like real kind of um, it's groovy, but if

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Speaker 1: you listen to the words, it's like those guys talking

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Speaker 1: about being a punk but it's long before punk. But

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Speaker 1: there musically they were not punk at all. Los Sachos

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Speaker 1: was punk, Like there's their sound is definitely punk and

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Speaker 1: they were around the same time. Yeah, And the and

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Speaker 1: the specifics of what you're doing musically on a guitar

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Speaker 1: with punkt is the down stroke. So you know, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to talk about it without showing you but if

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Speaker 1: you're playing like a an Eric Clapton rhythm part, it's

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Speaker 1: like you know, you're stroking down and up ching ching,

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Speaker 1: ching ching. If you're playing punk, you're just going down

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Speaker 1: that ching ching ching ching ching ching ching. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: that's really And the Ramons made a career out of

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Speaker 1: two or three chords played fast, playing that same rhythm

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Speaker 1: and down stroke over and over and over and over,

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Speaker 1: like I'm convinced you just did two seconds snippet of

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Speaker 1: a misfit song. I could hear it like playing his Day.

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Speaker 1: It's great. Though I was listening to stuff that I

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Speaker 1: was like, man, I really like a lot of this

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Speaker 1: and I missed out. So I see myself diving into

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Speaker 1: it again or diving in for the first time. Rather

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know about the Clash and the Ramons

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, for but oh there's like I mean,

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Speaker 1: as you know, a whole world world. And then the

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Speaker 1: thing about punk is the more like you find, oh

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Speaker 1: I like this band, and then oh that it turns

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Speaker 1: out this guy was used to be in this other band.

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Speaker 1: There from the same scene as this other band. It

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Speaker 1: just keeps going and going and going, because one of

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Speaker 1: the through lines of punk is that anybody could be

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Speaker 1: in a punk band. It was super democratized in the

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Speaker 1: d I Y ethos um was was basically the foundation

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Speaker 1: of punk music. All right, well, let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: We'll go back in time a little bit and talk

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Speaker 1: about New York and London, and then we'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: What I think is kind of the coolest part of

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Speaker 1: this whole thing is that d I Y aesthetic. Okay,

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Speaker 1: al right, so I mentioned London in New York. I

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Speaker 1: sourced this from a bunch of articles. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: if this was the Pitchfork win or not, but the

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Speaker 1: headline of this part is the tale of two cities,

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Speaker 1: New York in l A. And I'm sorry New York

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Speaker 1: in London, but l A would come along a bit

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Speaker 1: later with its own scene. And also London gets mentioned

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Speaker 1: here at the expense of Manchester, which I would say

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Speaker 1: is like, that's ground zero next to New York. Right.

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Speaker 1: Also ground zero, which doesn't get nearly enough press is Australia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: these things were going on in parallel all over the world.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting to think, like this stuff is happening

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Speaker 1: like almost independently. It was, because it's not like someone

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Speaker 1: in Australia heard someone on the internet in nine But

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Speaker 1: there are a couple of bands, one called Cheap Nasties

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Speaker 1: on the Western I think in Perth, and then The Saints,

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Speaker 1: probably the biggest punk band to come out of Australia.

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Speaker 1: This is at the same time that cb gbs uh

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Speaker 1: and the Studges were like getting big. It's crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the Studges would technically qualify as proto punk too,

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Speaker 1: but they came from Michigan along with m C five

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Speaker 1: and Death Death is an even earlier proto punk band

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Speaker 1: than The Stages. That documentary is great. I actually I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that one. Yeah, there's one on death it's

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Speaker 1: just called like a band called death Right. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very like they're amazing and they were, um I

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Speaker 1: think three three African American brothers from Detroit just killing it.

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Speaker 1: Who in like a punk band? Yeah yeah, and this

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Speaker 1: is before the Stages. I think this is before MC

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Speaker 1: five Bad Brains for sure, for sure. Um, So all

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Speaker 1: of these bands are starting to kind of lay the

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Speaker 1: groundwork and then it's almost like it just kind of ignites,

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Speaker 1: like we're saying in different parts of the world virtually

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Speaker 1: at the same time, which I just find endlessly fascinating. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's what really lends a lot of

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Speaker 1: credence to the fact that it was a movement. It

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Speaker 1: was a feeling people were rebelling against more than anything

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Speaker 1: which can happen parallel in different parts of the country

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Speaker 1: in world. You know, if there's anything that can bring

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Speaker 1: the whole world together, it's disdained for hippies, you know,

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Speaker 1: they really bring that out. And everybody, did you see

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Speaker 1: the Tarantino movie Yet Once upon a Time. Yes, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of the anti hippies suffing. It was pretty funny, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little some of them are beaten to death. Literally. Well,

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Speaker 1: I just mean all the DiCaprio stuff was really funny.

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Speaker 1: Hated the hippies. But but Tarantino really like pointed out,

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Speaker 1: like you know, the Manson family has been celebrated in

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Speaker 1: romanticized at least in some weird ways. Um, and they

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Speaker 1: should not be. And this is why I think he

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Speaker 1: did a really good job of doing that. Uh so sorry,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the Stooges in MC five in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Uh In New York City is where things really crystallized

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Speaker 1: with the club CBGB owned by Hilly Crystal. Crystal Crystal

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Speaker 1: is it Crystal? I think so? Like Billy Crystal right,

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Speaker 1: but hilly uh. And originally you know that stands for

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Speaker 1: a country, blue, blue grass, and blues, and that was

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Speaker 1: what it was supposed to be when I opened in nineteen.

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Speaker 1: But then in about two years the Ramones started playing there,

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Speaker 1: talking Heads started playing their nineteen seventy five Blondie um Television,

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Speaker 1: I think Television. I'm okay with them, Like I don't

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Speaker 1: love them, they don't, I don't hate them, but um,

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Speaker 1: they were they were essential to that scene happening, sure,

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Speaker 1: um and a lot of people kind of overlook them.

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Speaker 1: I think is like one of the the foundation bands

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Speaker 1: for punk. Yeah, which is interesting, like I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: like it's such different kinds of music, Like I love

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Speaker 1: Talking Heads and Television and Blondie and the Go Goes,

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Speaker 1: and they were all on that early scene. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's that's anything like the Misfits or the

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Speaker 1: Damned or the Ramons. No, but the Misfits uh and

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Speaker 1: the Ramons both started their careers at cbgby So it

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Speaker 1: was like the place where punk began in the United States. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but also at Max's Kanzie Kansas City and New York

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Speaker 1: Legendary Club. This is where like Patti Smith is hanging out,

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Speaker 1: the Velbot Underground is hanging out again. They're not punk

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Speaker 1: at all, but they were in that scene, right. And

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Speaker 1: one thing that we're kind of not really mentioning that

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Speaker 1: is a common thread to all these bands, not necessarily music,

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Speaker 1: but heroin was a huge thread. They shared their deep, deep,

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Speaker 1: deep love of heroin UM in common and that definitely

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Speaker 1: bound them together at CBGB for sure. And that was

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Speaker 1: a huge factor on the early punk scene was heroin,

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Speaker 1: which I mean this is you know, if you remember

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Speaker 1: back just a few years ago, for oxycotton turned everybody

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Speaker 1: into junkies in the world, UM, heroin was not a

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Speaker 1: big drug at all, and back then especially it was

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Speaker 1: like you were a total burnout if you were doing heroin,

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Speaker 1: like it was not done. So the fact that these

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Speaker 1: people were like shooting heroin like in the clubs, that

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Speaker 1: was a that was a another kind of badge that

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Speaker 1: they took on UM that separated them from every buddy else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, even their preference of drugs was super hardcore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure. Another interesting thing happened early on in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven when these two scenes sort of exported one

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Speaker 1: of their UM early UM big bands to play in

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Speaker 1: the other city. Uh In nineteen seventy seven, the Damned

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Speaker 1: played in the United States and less than a year

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Speaker 1: before that, the Ramons had gone to the UK to

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Speaker 1: play shows in London, and that was a big deal

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Speaker 1: because all of a sudden you had these two different

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Speaker 1: scenes swapping bands. Of course, it wasn't anything they planned,

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Speaker 1: but they got a taste of New York City in

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Speaker 1: London with the Ramons in a big, big way, and

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Speaker 1: the same can be said in New York City with

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Speaker 1: The Damned very British. And then a month before the

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Speaker 1: Ramons played in London, in Manchester on June six, the

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Speaker 1: sex Pistols had their first show. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: people point to this is this is when UK punk happened.

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Speaker 1: It was this one show at the um Lesser Free

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Speaker 1: Trade Hall, which is like a hall might as well

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Speaker 1: be a VFW basically, and that's where the sex Pistols

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Speaker 1: are there first show. But some of the people who

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Speaker 1: were there were so influential, including a seventeen year old

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Speaker 1: Morrissey who went to cover the thing for New Music

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Speaker 1: Express um that that it just spread out like a

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Speaker 1: germ like It was the single point that that UK

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Speaker 1: punk spread out from and this was UH June of

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Speaker 1: and within six months, the major record labels were lining

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Speaker 1: up to sign any and every punk act they could

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Speaker 1: get their hands on. Six months Like That's so not

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Speaker 1: only did it spread and grow in parallel around the

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Speaker 1: world at the same time when it hit the scene.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to overstate how quickly it just blew up,

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Speaker 1: like just from nothing to it in six months. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if there's one thing I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't know about the music industry today, but previous

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Speaker 1: to you know, digital content, the music industry was always

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Speaker 1: there waiting to commodify the next big thing. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they did it to punk big time. Yeah. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about this d I Y thing for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It was really cool this article about these um, these

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Speaker 1: d I Y origins in punk music. What happened was

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Speaker 1: when punk started coming around in the mid nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 1: This coincided with a big shift in UH equipment and

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Speaker 1: recording gear and modernizing recording gear among the big labels.

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Speaker 1: Yeah sure, um, And so all of a sudden there

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Speaker 1: was all of this these rooms in this gear that

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Speaker 1: you could either rent cheap or buy cheap. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: old stuff that they didn't need anymore. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: the punks came along and UH started using it, and

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Speaker 1: the very first punk labels were self started, Miles Copeland

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Speaker 1: started Step Forward, Bob Last started Fast Product, and of

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Speaker 1: course very Miss Lee Tony Wilson started Factory Records. Yes dude, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, see Party of People if you never

356
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Speaker 1: have Everybody. It's amazing to see that again. I saw

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Speaker 1: it once when it came out. Yeah, it's a good movie. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it follows this progression of punk into new wave,

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00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: UH into the eighties. Um. It just does it in

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00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,199
Speaker 1: a spectacularly great way because it's Steve Coogan who's created

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Speaker 1: so good. But people trace the um punk on record

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Speaker 1: or on recorded tape rather to the very first single

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Speaker 1: they claim very first punk single November seventy six, The

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Speaker 1: Damns New Rows, which I thought that was weird because

365
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Speaker 1: the Ramons released their album before them. But maybe because

366
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Speaker 1: the Ramons were on the label when they release their album,

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Speaker 1: they're saying like this is the first d I y,

368
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Speaker 1: maybe when was the Ramons first? Off? I think like

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Speaker 1: the full year before. I'm pretty sure, if not at

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Speaker 1: least seventy six, then but I'm pretty sure. Well, the

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Speaker 1: buzz Cox put out an EP and I listened to

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Speaker 1: a lot of that today. I enjoyed that UM Spiral

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Speaker 1: Scratch was this EP was apparently the first British homemade

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Speaker 1: record and that was a really big deal. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is a seven. They sold out a thousand copies that

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Speaker 1: they printed, then they went on to sell another sixteen

377
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: thousand and UM. The influence on Spiral Scratch really spread

378
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 1: out and told everyone because they printed it was very cool.

379
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Speaker 1: They printed on the little record jacket like how much

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Speaker 1: it cost, how they produced it, and what the money

381
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Speaker 1: was all about for a hundred and fifty three pounds,

382
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Speaker 1: basically saying go do this right, like and here's how

383
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Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah. Um they all all like. That

384
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: kind of set the tone for other records, like other

385
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Speaker 1: punk bands released their own records, also included instructions on

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Speaker 1: their sleeve that the record came in UM and the

387
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: whole d I Y record released thing that the buzz

388
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 1: Cox kicked off. UM. Other people started to find other

389
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: ways to to kind of make it so punk could

390
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Speaker 1: exist outside of the influence of the record companies, Like

391
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: people would release records in zip block baggies Like that

392
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Speaker 1: was the record sleeve that your record came in and

393
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: people loved it like you didn't You didn't need like

394
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Speaker 1: this expensive sleeve for the thing to come in, Like

395
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: you could just pop it in for in a zip

396
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Speaker 1: block bag and sell it. It's super punk. And then also, um,

397
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Speaker 1: if you can form a band that it was put

398
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Speaker 1: like this, like the sex Pistol showed that anybody could

399
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Speaker 1: be in a punk band. You didn't even need be

400
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: very talented, right, you didn't even need to know how

401
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: to play an instrument. Um, and you could be in

402
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,479
Speaker 1: a punk band. And the buzz Cocks came along and

403
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: showed that anybody could press a record. But there's still

404
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: one very essential ingredient missing, and that was distribution. And

405
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: like you said, mail order made up for a lot

406
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: of the Buzzcocks ep UM sales. But they they realized

407
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: that there were more people out there who wanted this

408
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 1: stuff but didn't have a way to get to it.

409
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 1: So a what was called the Cartel was formed, which

410
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: was a group of independent record stores around the UK

411
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Speaker 1: that would basically serve as a distribution network for these

412
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Speaker 1: d I Y punk records. So cool um. Not only

413
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Speaker 1: that but zines were very important early on and the

414
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Speaker 1: punk and really kind of a lot of music genres.

415
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Speaker 1: Zines were really big. Which are these, you know, fan

416
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: made magazines? Yeah, maybe with like photocopy, you don't even

417
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: photo copy like mimiographs stuff, yep, And you would just

418
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Speaker 1: pronount your zine. And some of these zanes got to

419
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: be pretty big and they would attach distribution to the

420
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Speaker 1: zines sometimes and sneak forty five not sneaking, but a

421
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 1: pack of forty five in the zine, and that's how

422
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 1: you could release your stuff. And it was just this

423
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Speaker 1: uh again. It sounds so trite to say, very punk

424
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Speaker 1: rock attitude, but that's exactly what it was. The way

425
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: they were doing things was all under the radar, all

426
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: on their own, uh. And that changed pretty quickly. It

427
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,959
Speaker 1: did is because the the big, the big players came in.

428
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: They smelled money, they smelled something new, the next big thing,

429
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: and they started signing everybody they could left and right.

430
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: And these punks were going like, nah, bollocks, I don't

431
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: want your money. They're like, what if we pay you

432
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: in heroin? They said, okay, yeah, I like it that

433
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: you could buy drugs with money, right, So um again

434
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: within six months of what most people point to as

435
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: the source of UK punk, that one specific show by

436
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: the sex Pistols. The sex Pistons were so new. Sid

437
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: Vicious wasn't even in the band. He was still Susie

438
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: and the Banshee's drummer. So this is how young this

439
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: stuff was. Within six months they were signed on to

440
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: a major record label. The Clash was signed onto a

441
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: major record label, The Fall, the Jam, the Stranglers, everybody

442
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: got signed in this feeding frenzy where everyone who had

443
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: punk band could get a record deal with a major label.

444
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: Six months after The sex Epistols had their first show, Yeah,

445
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: Generation X with a young Billy idol, Uh, which I

446
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: did ever do? That? Danceing with Myself was originally a

447
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: Generation X song. They released it, then he re released

448
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: it as a solo artist like a year later and

449
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: it became a much bigger hit. Sure, they were like

450
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, but yeah, sex Pistols went with E

451
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: M I UM, the Stranglers at you A. The Clash

452
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: signed to CBS, The Jam went to Polydor, Generation X

453
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: and Stiff Little Fingers went to Chrysalis and even the

454
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: Buzz Cox. They were very quick to hop on that

455
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: train too with United Artists, which actually that's not too bad.

456
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: You could have signed with worse because United Artists was

457
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: started by Mary Pickford, Douglas Fairbanks, um, Charlie Chaplin in

458
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: d W. Griffith so that artists could have more control

459
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: and ownership over their work. Yeah. I mean it was

460
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: a movie company, and I guess they dabbled in records.

461
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: So one of three things happened basedically to the little

462
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: d I Y small label movement. Um you either got Pilford.

463
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: They use one example in Belfast, the Good Vibrations label.

464
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: Four of its first six bands were stolen away or

465
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: signed away. I guess so either got Pilford and then

466
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: just shut down and gave up. Um Or you grew

467
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: and got bigger to where you were, you know, like

468
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: Rough Trade and Factory Records, those all became like bigger

469
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: independent labels. Yeah, rough Trades still around. They have state

470
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: of the art, cutting edge bands. It's great. Um Or

471
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: they stayed small and just kept going right, they went

472
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: punk and went back underground. Yeah, like so they didn't

473
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: all go away. They didn't all say, you know, we're

474
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: all getting Pilford, so we're just gonna shut down. They

475
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: would just find more underground bands and go deeper and

476
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper. But then, um, something happened in nineteen

477
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: seventy nine February of nineteen seventy nine that a lot

478
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: of people point to, Just as they point to that

479
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: first sex Pistols show as the beginning of punk in

480
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: the u K. They point to the death of Sid

481
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: Vicious as the end of punk, at least the first

482
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: wave of punk. His death from a heroin overdose um

483
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: is widely pointed to as as the death of punk,

484
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: which is a really dumb thing to say, because Punk

485
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: very clearly went on. But what I think people are saying, sorry,

486
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: I guess it's not entirely dumb now that I say

487
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: it out loud, But what people are saying is is

488
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: that punk transformed into something else and that punk really

489
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: as as it originally existed, was only around for about

490
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: to three years, maybe four or five. Some people at

491
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: a bar right now that are just saying that over

492
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: and over again, punk only the last said three years. Okay, well,

493
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: I agree with you, drunk person in this sense, but

494
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: it's not like punk went away. It transformed and became

495
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: something else, And so what had transitioned into is commonly

496
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: called hardcore hardcore punk, where stuff just got faster, louder,

497
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: a little angrier. Yeah. Um, and it just went in

498
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: in a different direction, predominantly in the United States. Yeah,

499
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: and there were there were a couple of scenes. Um,

500
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: the l A scene had already sort of been born

501
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: by the late seventies. Uh, if you haven't seen it.

502
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: The great documentary from Penelope spheris The Decline of Western Civilization,

503
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 1: released in eighty one but filmed over I think eight

504
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: maybe covered the l A scene. And that's the Germs

505
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: and uh like I think Blondie and the Go Goes

506
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Alright, York the best sets ever

507
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: in the Decline of Western Civilization. Yes, it's very good.

508
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: And the Germs too, That's where I was. I was

509
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: watching some of that today and that's when I knew

510
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: I didn't like the germs. Right. But Pat Smir of

511
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: course the food Fighters, he was in the Germs. You know,

512
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: he'd liked money. And also if you're like, who's Penelope Spheres,

513
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: you may be familiar with their work. If you've seen

514
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: the movie Waynes World, that's right, or the movie Black Sheet,

515
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: The Chris Farley David Spade movie or the Decline of

516
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: Western Civilization. I think she'd ended up doing like three

517
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: or four of those, right, at least three, because I

518
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: know she didnt want to metal. The second one was metal,

519
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: which is good too. Yeah, that's the only two I saw.

520
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: Did you ever see that documentary about um heavy metal

521
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: Parking Lot? Yes, yeah, where everybody's smoking PCP at did

522
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: Judas Priest concert. Yeah, it's pretty great. Did you know

523
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: early eighties metal head smoked PCP. No, I didn't until

524
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: the documentary because it was quite a surprise. No, I

525
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: was scared of all those people. Well, they're kind of

526
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: scary because they were all on PCP, especially when you're

527
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: like eight or ten. So American. Uh. We were talking

528
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: about the you know punk bands releasing their own albums.

529
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: This started having on the West coast. Um. They started

530
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: forming their own labels even to release their albums and

531
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: sign other like bands like SST. Very famous punk label

532
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: was started from the guy, the original guy for Black

533
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: Flag right, Yes, Uh, what's his name? Greg? G? I

534
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: n n either again or Jin. I'm sorry punkers, I

535
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: know you're mad at me right now that I don't

536
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: know this. Yeah, I think he was like the founder

537
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: of Black Flag. Okay, uh Jello Biafro of course, um

538
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: Dead Kennedy's they formed or he formed Alternative Tentacles. Yeah,

539
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: in ninety nine and seventy nine was a big year

540
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: because that's the same year that a band called Bad

541
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: Brains came out in Washington, d C. Which I didn't love.

542
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: Did you see the Dave Gold documentary series? So I

543
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: can't remember what it was called, but he did this

544
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: like ten part documentary series where he would do the

545
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: music of a different city and it was really really good,

546
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: except for the last like fifteen minutes of it. He

547
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: would get the Food Fighters together in a studio and

548
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: they would play like some of those songs and if

549
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: you're really into the food Fighters, imagine you loved it all.

550
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: Not into the Food Fighters, So I would just stop

551
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: it there. But he does Seattle. But what got me

552
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: on this was one of the most interesting episodes was

553
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: the Washington, DC episode because I didn't know it was

554
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: such a hardcore scene. Like that's where when people talk

555
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: about hardcore, yeah, they're like, well, DC is kind of

556
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: the cradle of it. And Bad Brains, which my friend

557
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: Jason Jenkins in college introduced me to and that's when

558
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: it was like really fast, had a little metal edge,

559
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: but Bad Brains was also started out as like jazz

560
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: fusion and had reggae roots. Also African American guys, four

561
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: of them, Yeah, and um, really really good stuff. Yeah.

562
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: So you've got at the same time l A and

563
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: d C as the new like seats of punk music

564
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: in the US punk slash hardcore, and it's going it's

565
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: going like way more hardcore, way more masculine, way more

566
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: macho than the UK went. The UK went a different route.

567
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: They went way more political, way more like class struggle. Um.

568
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: And there's there's definitely lots of political threads that um,

569
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: American punk music went through, but I think the UK

570
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: went to it earlier. Like Crass is a great, great

571
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: punk band from the UK. Um, they're kind of like, uh,

572
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: they're just great, check them out. Um. But they were

573
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: doing like anarchy stuff in the seventies. Yeah. The Clash

574
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: certainly is notable for their political statement, very political. Um.

575
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: And then you've got like the Six Sex Pistols talking

576
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: about anarchy in the UK. They didn't really mean it,

577
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: they were just saying something right, Um, But there were

578
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: a lot of like politically motivated bands in the UK

579
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: in the early seventies that didn't pick up till later

580
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: in the eighties in the US certainly were not politically

581
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: they were not political. But the other thing, the other

582
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: differentiation I saw between UK and US punk was that

583
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: UK punk didn't take itself quite as seriously as the

584
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: US started to in the late seventies early eighties, and

585
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: that this guy I read to I think a Guardian

586
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: article trace that back to a love of glam rock.

587
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: That glam rock really led to punk, especially in the UK,

588
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: and if you're into glam rock, you just can't quite

589
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: take anything fully seriously, including punk music and the the US.

590
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: Even though punk came out of the New York Dolls

591
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: in part um, which was definitely glam rock, Um, it

592
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: just didn't have that that through thread. So it did

593
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: get taken way more seriously. And that was a big

594
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: part of hardcore and what differentiated it from the earlier

595
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 1: punk taking things really really seriously and it being a

596
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: little more political than ever before, and um angsty against

597
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: things like the boredom of suburban life. Yeah, I mean,

598
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: I think punk is just as important for things that

599
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: it uh inspired that happened afterward as it was the

600
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: actual movement itself, because you can point to stuff in

601
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: Minneapolis like Whosker Do or bands like the Minutemen, who

602
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: I loved and they had a very sound to them,

603
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: and maybe you're even considered punk, probably post punk post

604
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: I think MENI Men are considered punk, but Hoosker Do

605
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: would definitely be post post punk, and stuff like Sonic Youth,

606
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: which I would call them post punk to post punk,

607
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: straddling into the early grunge though too. Well yeah, I

608
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: mean it's like it's hard to it's easy sometimes to

609
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: trace that through line and sometimes it's really difficult. But

610
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: we want to. We want to be able to say, like,

611
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, it went from Um from Bad Brains to

612
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 1: Hoosker Do to Sonic Youth to Nirvana, you know, four

613
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: Degrees of Nirvana and they're going, what about us, right exactly? UM,

614
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: But you just you can't. But at the same time,

615
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: you also can't discount the effects that these later bands

616
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: UM got from the earth listening to the earlier bands

617
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: that came before him, Like, there's undoubtedly an influence, it's

618
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: just not quite as crisp and clean as as we

619
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: like to make it. Yeah, And it's even argued in

620
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: one of these articles that the the birth of hardcore

621
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: came about because, like you kind of teased earlier on,

622
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: because punk, you know, flouts the rules and norms of

623
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: rock and roll. Then they formed their own rules and

624
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: norms and we're really pretty serious about it, and so

625
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: hardcore came along because they didn't quite fit in with that,

626
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: the true punk aesthetic. They took punk even further because

627
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,959
Speaker 1: punk was being commodified and commercialized otherwise, that's right, which

628
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: would make it kind of easier to break from, especially

629
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: if you just go slightly angrier and faster and louder. Right,

630
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: But you also can look at the stuff like you

631
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: talk about tracing the through line. Um, if you want

632
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: to think about early Manchester and stuff like Joy Division

633
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: that goes to New Order that goes to Orchestral Maneuvers

634
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: in the Dark and Simple Minds and all of a

635
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: sudden it's John Hughes soundtrack and it's hard. It's then

636
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: it's like what is punk about anything? And that like

637
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: sort of after new Wave. But at the same time

638
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: you can also say, well, New Order was just straight

639
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: up new wave, but then new Wave caught on and

640
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: got commercialized and commodified, and then you end up having

641
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: a John Hughes soundtrack because the record labels got ahold

642
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: of the new wave band. Right. So that's kind of

643
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: like the story with music is somebody comes up with

644
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: something raw and organic and rebellious, everybody loves it. The

645
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: big guys come along, get their hands on it, co opted,

646
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: commodify it, commercialize it, ruin it, and then some thread

647
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: kind of jumps off of that and it starts something else,

648
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: and the whole thing always it just continues on and

649
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: continues on, except until the mid two thousands when music

650
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: died forever and ever and ever. Alright, well, let's take

651
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: another break here and we'll talk a little bit about

652
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: the end of punk. And before that, maybe we'll hit

653
00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: on the fashion of punk. Oh boy, okay, chuck um,

654
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: we're talking fashion of punk. Yeah, so every every genre

655
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: has its own look. Well, I cannot remember what it

656
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: had to have been the safety pin short stuff where

657
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: we talked about Richard Hell being considered the guy who

658
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 1: started the safety pin as a fashion statement, pretty shirt.

659
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: But it was Richard Hell. He was the guitarist for

660
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: television and he was like the first guy with the mohawk,

661
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,959
Speaker 1: like the Elmer's glue kind of mohawk and safety pins

662
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: holding his shirt together, which is I mean, that's quintessential punk.

663
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: But at the same time, dressing like a Ramon as

664
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: quintessential punk too, with like the jeans with the knees

665
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: in it, back jeans Doc Martin's or Converse low tops

666
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: or Converse high tops. Uh. Black biker jacket. Yeah. The

667
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: New York Dolls were very famous for wearing the Jeane jackets,

668
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: super super small. That jokes in this article that they

669
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: could barely fit in them. Right. They also wore super

670
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: tight lycra shiny pants and stuff too. Yeah, but they

671
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: were glam but that it was really those black ripped jeans. Uh.

672
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: And this was a time where that wasn't like the

673
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: cool thing to wear if you you didn't walk around

674
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 1: with holes. And you know, now it's become a recurring

675
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: thing in fashion to have holes in your jeans being cool.

676
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: At the time, it was not cool. Admit that you

677
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: were poor exactly. Man. This was like somebody in this

678
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: article I think from Pitchfork said, you know, Dee de

679
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: Ramon had uhum holes in the knees of his jeans.

680
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: Not because it was cool, but because he didn't have

681
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: any money for some new genes and those his jeans

682
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: has had holes in them, so that's what he wore.

683
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: Now you pay like a hundred or two hundred bucks

684
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: for jeanes that have pre ripped holes that are just right. Yeah,

685
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: that's a of ag example of the commodity commoditization of punk. Yeah,

686
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: for sure. Uh other you know, in l A they

687
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: have their own fashion scene going on because it's l

688
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: A and they don't have harsh winters in cold, rainy weather,

689
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: so they went to the thrift stores and bought things

690
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: and cut them up. And that's where you you never

691
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: saw a shirt on a punk in the l A

692
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: scene that didn't have like the net cut out or

693
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: the sleeves cut off, or in the case of the

694
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: Go Goes in their earlier punk days, wearing like literal

695
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: trash bags as fashion. Very funny and blondie too. They

696
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: all had a very like specific aesthetic in Los Angeles.

697
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting that the Go go started out on the

698
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: punk scene when they were I think to the casual

699
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: UH music fan known very much for just sort of

700
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: a bubblegum sing along pop hits that they had just

701
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: lovable as all get out as all get out great

702
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: songs and blend Carlisle too, like her soul of stuff

703
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: is yeah, just kiss everybody. You couldn't see that, but

704
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: that's what I get. But it's that whole pop punk thing,

705
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: which is kind of where it started to go bad.

706
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: You could make the case that starting in the beginning

707
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: of nine seven, when all those first record labels came

708
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: in and started to go bad. Then, but hardcore here's

709
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: this is where I This is my reading of this, okay,

710
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not a punk or even music historian by

711
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: any stretch of the imagination, but from what I gathered

712
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: from this research is that early punk got co opted

713
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: and commodified by the record labels immediately hardcore grew out

714
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: of that. Hardcore is way harder to commodify because it's

715
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: much more raw, there's much less melodic, it's much more

716
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: in your face and angry than the original was. And

717
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: it's also jealously guarded and defended by the fans, where

718
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: at the getting of the show we're saying, please don't

719
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: beat us up. Like if you go to a hardcore

720
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: show and they think your opposer like you may get

721
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: beaten up if this is the eighties or the nineties,

722
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if they still do it today. I

723
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: remember feeling that threat. Oh yeah, it was the punks

724
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: at the school, Like you didn't want to cross them.

725
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: That was part of being a punk, was like you

726
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: beat somebody up to basically defend punk, don't to keep

727
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: it from getting commodified. Like like seeing kids like wear

728
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: Thrasher T shirts today and they have no idea what

729
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: Thrasher is. Like it's like, if you did that with

730
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: punk in the eighties and nineties, you would get beaten up,

731
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: maybe even at school, definitely at a punk show. And

732
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: so in doing so, they were able to defend hardcore

733
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: from commoditization because they kept it their own violently. But

734
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: at the same time, they also it's kind of like

735
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: how a language evolves the more people speak it and

736
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: the more free and easy the rules on it are.

737
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: By by doing these very tight restrictions on what's punk

738
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: and what's not punking, he's allowed to come to a

739
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: punk show, which is super ironic for punks to do.

740
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: To come up with all these rules and regulations, they

741
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: kept it from evolving, and they definitely kept it underground,

742
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: and it's still around today. But it's the same thing

743
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: over and over again because it wasn't allowed to grow

744
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: and evolved, because the fans have kept it, at least

745
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: in America, have kept it underground, uh, purposely, deliberately, invioluently.

746
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: So punks killed punk kind of, they would argue, No

747
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: punks still around. I go see punk shows all the

748
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: time and don't come to it because your opposer and

749
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: will beat you up. So they're still punk. But as

750
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: far as like you and I walking around are concerned,

751
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: punk is dead as a doornail for now, Yeah, for now? Well,

752
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 1: I mean I remember when we did our UK tour,

753
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: remember seeing a group of punks in Manchester that looked

754
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: like they stepped right out of one with the full

755
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: spiked mohawks and the leather studded leather collars. And I

756
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: was scared of him a little bit. You're like, those

757
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: are bad kids. Are going to try to get me

758
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: to smooth down to do a podcast? Right? Well, what's

759
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: funny is is that fashion that you're talking about, that

760
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: quintessential punk fashion that was a commodification immediately to the

761
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: sex Pistols manager used to be the manager of the

762
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: New York Dolls, Malcolm McLaren and he owned a shop

763
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: Gonna b D S m Um fashion shop with Vivian

764
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: Westwood in London, and he basically used the sex Pistols

765
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: to promote the fashion he was selling at his shop,

766
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: to make it fashionable so we could sell more clothes.

767
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: This is the manager of the first UK punk band

768
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: ever well, and he had put them together, right. It's

769
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 1: not like essentially the sex Pistols all got together because

770
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: they were mates. Like they were formed by a manager. Yes,

771
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: by this guy Malcolm. They were the monkeys kind of.

772
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: They were the monkeys of punk. They were the punkies.

773
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,959
Speaker 1: So many people are mad at us right now, for sure,

774
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: but it's true. I mean, go look up your history

775
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: if your punks are gonna beat us up next time.

776
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 1: We got some some thirteen year old just looked done

777
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: at their sher and win. That's what the sex Pistols are.

778
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: I had no idea. Well, it's funny though you talk

779
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: about the the pins and the it was all homemade stuff,

780
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: like I remember it being a very I mean I

781
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: was certainly way too square, but I remember seeing the

782
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: punks in my school doing stuff to their clothes during

783
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: class and at lunch and thinking it was the coolest thing,

784
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: whether it was black magic black Sharpie doing the Dead

785
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: Kennedy's or the anarchy symbol. Well, the Dead Kennedys did

786
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: have the coolest symbol round, it was pretty cool. Or

787
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: just fraying their fraying their jackets or adding safety pins,

788
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: it was all. It was all created out of that

789
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: homemade aesthetic sort of like the music and it and

790
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: it appealed to me, but I was afraid of it.

791
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 1: And now that's why I'm just now starting to listen

792
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: to some of this music. Are you gonna turn all

793
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: punk now? Maybe? Okay, that would be one of the

794
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: bigger surprises you've ever laid on me, man. But pop

795
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: punk we should talk a little bit about. Um they

796
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: call it bitter sweet in this article. Um sweet in

797
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: the sense that you could get tons of money and

798
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: be super famous, but bitter because you know, it's spawned

799
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: a genre that I think a lot of true punk's

800
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: really loathe. Like I think true punks like a square

801
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: more than they like Blink Indubita, you know, uh, and

802
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: that you know that whole scene, the Van's Warped Tour

803
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: and the Rancid and the Offspring and Green Day and

804
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: all these groups was a part of a big second

805
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: wave of these kids who grew up definitely listening to

806
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: that stuff, and I guess feeling like they were a

807
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: part of it. I mean, I'm sure Green Day really

808
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: feels like they're a punk band and part of a

809
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: punk movement. Whereas I remember the first time I heard

810
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: Green Day thinking these are guys pretending to be a

811
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,959
Speaker 1: punk band, which is a really cruddy thing to say,

812
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: but I mean it is. It's like, it's totally understandable

813
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: how you would think that, but they they are. It

814
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: is punk in some way, shape or form. It's punk.

815
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: The stuff they're talking about is pretty punk. Um, but

816
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: punk bands don't release acoustic songs. Definitely not the first

817
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: the first album Dukie, right, that is what we're talking about.

818
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: I guess was that the first one? I think so.

819
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: I just remember hearing it and going like, why is

820
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: that guy trying to sound British? Well that's pretty punk,

821
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: first big hit. It's very punk, yeah, for sure, an

822
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: American kid trying to sound British. So um, but yeah,

823
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: I don't. I would guess you're right though, there on

824
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: Broadway that punks for God's sake, Well, Yeah, there was

825
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: a brief, shining moment where you could have conceivably called

826
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: them a punk band. Here's the thing, though, man, people

827
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: like money. Yeah, but that's been a through not just

828
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: in the punk scene, but but it's just a music

829
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: in general. Although hats off to the punk culture for

830
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: keeping it at bay better than anybody ever has any

831
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: other genre I would like to hear. I'm sure there

832
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: are people listening that Noah punk bands that did stick

833
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: their middle finger up to the money and say nope,

834
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: I can tell you one. Fugazi. Uh, well, I loved

835
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: Pughassi DC or I guess hardcore um and they I

836
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: think they formed Discord Records. If not, they're a big

837
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: act on Discord Records. And they have done this whole

838
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: d I Y thing, like from the get go, they've

839
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: they've issued the major labels as far as I know

840
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: their whole career, and they were extremely successful despite that. Yeah,

841
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: I saw them in Athens once. Oh yeah, what do

842
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: you think that was great? This is you know, I

843
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: think they got together in the like seven ishi and

844
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: this was more like okay, well, they were still huge

845
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: and probably bigger. That was when they were at their height.

846
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: I would guess. I mean technically they had a I

847
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: don't know about how it performed on the literal charts,

848
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: but they had that one song that had a big

849
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 1: MTV hit, Waiting Room. Yeah, it's a good song. It's

850
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: a really good song. Um So I just want to

851
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: give some shouts out anybody who's like, this is really interesting.

852
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: I want to know more. Go listen to the Cramps.

853
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: I would recommend the Cramps, listen to Crass, Go watch

854
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: the Decline of Western Civilization. Definitely check out the Circle Jerks,

855
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: um who else? Chuck, I'm gonna say that for my picks,

856
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: Bad Brains, and the Damned. Okay, for sure, I'm gonna

857
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: toss g. G Allen out there, although he kind of

858
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: transcends everything just punk and you were sending me some um.

859
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,479
Speaker 1: I didn't catch any of the names, but she said

860
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: there's a big punk scene in Japan still. And that

861
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: was another thing too. Somebody said punk's not dying, it's

862
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: just coming up in other places, like um, in Islamic countries,

863
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: there's a big punk movement. I saw Mexico has got

864
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: a big one right now. Apparently Japan has it. And

865
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: then there's a whole riot girl feminist punk that is. Man,

866
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: If that's not punk, I don't know like Eastern block punk, right, girls,

867
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: So punk is still alive. Punk not dead? Punk? No dead,

868
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: Punk's not dead. Okay. If you want to know more

869
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: about punk music, go listen to that stuff we just

870
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: told you to go listen to. And since I said

871
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: that's time for listener mail. If you want to learn

872
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: more about punk music, you can probably go to literally

873
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: any other place other than this episode and learn more

874
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: about If you want to know more about punk music,

875
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: go to your local library and read up. It's fundamental.

876
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: All right, guys, I'm gonna call this uh poop no

877
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: no poop. On that short stuff about the guy who

878
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: didn't eat for a year. Uh, we talked about the

879
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 1: fact that he didn't poop that much, and she said

880
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: this is the norm for people with a colostomy or iliostomy.

881
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: I had a temporary iliostomy and ostomy connected to the

882
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: ilium instead of the colon due to Crone's complications. My

883
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: colon was completely severed from the rest of my digestive

884
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: system during this time and basically sat dormant while food

885
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: exited into an ostomy pouch. No food means no poop,

886
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: but the body still produces a normal gut stuff like

887
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: mucus and cells and needs to evacuate on a Asian

888
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: which I think, Well, that's what we talked about for

889
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: people with years about issues such as pain and running

890
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: to the bathroom every thirty minutes. This can be a

891
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: literal lifesaver. Anyway, my colon is currently now reattached to

892
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: the rest of my intestine and my crones is in remission.

893
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: I had no idea. So this person had a colostomy

894
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: and it was reversed. Yes, that's I had no idea

895
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: they could do that. Yeah, we should do something on

896
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: crones and just tie all the stuff together. I just

897
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: wanted to give you a little perspective on the topic. Um, actually,

898
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: ostomes would be an interesting topic for you to tackle.

899
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for doing the best podcast around. According to my

900
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: podcast app, I've listened to over four hundred episodes. Yikes, Well,

901
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: Sonia in Canada, you have another what seven fifty, eight hundred?

902
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: What are we up to? Now? What number of episodes?

903
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: Eight fifty we're up to? Like, well, she's listened to

904
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: four hundred. Okay, so just do a little math. Okay,

905
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: hold on, So another like eight hundred or so. Yeah,

906
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: I would say something all right, well, you're a third

907
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: of the way there, keep at it. Yeah, roughly, yeah,

908
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: you got a third. Guys shouldn't just seemed chuck like

909
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: look up into the air from the side of his eye.

910
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: She said, Uh, we'd love to see you to the

911
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: come out to the Prairie provinces. So I know in

912
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: Canada we do Toronto and Vancouver, but there's a lot

913
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: of country in the middle there that we should probably

914
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: go to at some point. In the US would call

915
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 1: them flyover states Canada, they call it Prairie country. Right. Well,

916
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch with this, like

917
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: did Sonia, thanks again, Sonia UM, you can go on

918
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: to stuff you Should Know dot com and check out

919
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: our social links, and you can also send us an

920
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: email to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff

921
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios. How

922
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: stuff works. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio is

923
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: at the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

924
00:51:53,840 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.