WEBVTT - Charlie McCarthy: Death of a Dummy 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.080 How often does Charlie cross your mind? 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:12.640 Oh, not as often as you think, but probably once 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:13.119 a week. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.160 Have you ever dreamed about him? 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:19.319 Not? 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:24.079 Since I've been an adult. I think it's amazing that 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:29.520 I'm a walking, talking person, frankly, and nobody gives me 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.440 credit for that. The fact that I'm like a normal 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:33.880 person is a miracle. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.320 I'm speaking with actress Candice Bergen. You probably know her 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.680 best as TV's Murphy Brown. It's a role that won 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:42.720 her five Emmys. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.280 Which one of you turkeys got their greasy fingerprints all 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:47.640 over my emmy? 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:49.520 All right, too bad? 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.600 But her real life story could be its own TV series, 0:00:56.040 --> 0:01:00.720 more Twilight Zone than Sitcom, you see. Candace Sperking grew 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.600 up with a rather unusual sibling, and he. 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:08.160 Was always called my brother since I was a little kid. 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.679 It was like and your brother, Charlie. There was always 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.520 such an aura around him in the house. He had 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.880 his own room next to mine. It was a guest room, 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.080 but it was called Charlie's room. And Charlie was in 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.200 the closet. Oh did he sleep in the closet. He 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:29.600 would hang in the closet and his different heads would 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.839 hang in the closet. And he had a sleepy head 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.959 and an old head and an angry head. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:43.240 Yeah, for Charlie's different moods, exactly without your father manipulating him. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:45.600 He must have looked. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:54.400 Dead, not dead enough, he was always living. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.680 The Charlie we're talking about is Charlie McCarry. And if 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.400 you haven't figured it out already, Charlie was a dummy, yes, 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.800 a boy made of wood. And Candace's father, Edgar Bergen, 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.960 was the ventriloquist who brought him to life. 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.520 Well, I believe in letting a boy work for his money, Yes, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:15.399 you approve. Man. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.600 Listeners of a certain age will remember Charlie as the 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.640 ultimate smart alec, usually dressed in a tuxedo with a 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:31.240 top hat and monocle. And for a time, this dummy 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.760 was one of this country's biggest stars. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:35.440 Miss West. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:37.160 This is the famous Charlie McCarthy. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:42.480 Oh hello, shot up doctor handsome, how tall, blonde and terrific. 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:48.600 He was like a head of state, a minor state, 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:50.120 you know, like Monaca. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.359 Well he had his own coat of arms, right. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.720 Yeah he did. He had a Charlie McCarthy crest an, 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:02.720 a scepter and a crown. I thought this guy must 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:03.880 really rate. 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.080 Charlie was kind of like God him. Well, he was 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:12.560 to me from CBS Sunday Morning, and iHeart, I'm Morocca 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:27.280 and this is mobituaries, this moment. Charlie McCarthy September thirtieth, 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:39.080 nineteen seventy eight, death of a dummy. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:02.960 I'm so proud of how weird and eccentric my childhood was. 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:10.240 Nobody as a childhood as weird as me. I mean, 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.560 I knew a lot of people whose parents were famous, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.360 and none of them did anything nearly as weird as 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:16.880 my father. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:24.200 Right, So, Nancy Sinatra, Liza Minelli, Jane Fonda all had 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:29.000 famous parents, but they were normal. They weren't living with dummies. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:29.480 Right. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:35.080 We're going to continue with Kandisbergen's weird and eccentric childhood 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.880 in Act two. But in this act, I'm going to 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:42.080 tell you the story of her father's unlikely and spectacular 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.320 rise to fame as a ventriloquest because there is no 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:54.359 Charlie McCarthy without Edgar Bergen. Edgar Bergen was born in 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:59.159 Chicago to Swedish immigrants in nineteen oh three. At age eleven, 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.360 he began ventriloquism from a book he'd purchased for a quarter. 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.640 At sixteen, he managed to impress a touring vaudeville performer 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.359 known as the Great Leicster, enough so to get a 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.239 few months of free one on one lessons in ventriloquism. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.640 In my first year at high school, I discovered I 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.480 was a ventriloquist, and I earned my first dishonest money 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:22.760 answering roll calls. 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:23.960 From missing classmates. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:25.880 In my senior year, I teamed up with Charlie. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:27.119 We've been partners ever since. 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.520 Charlie was made to order. Edgar had paid Chicago woodcarver 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.720 Theodore Mack thirty five dollars to carve Charlie's head. 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.440 Well. My father based the look of him on a 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:44.200 newsboy in his neighborhood in Illinois. 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.640 This newsy An Irish kid named Charlie was around Edgar's age. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.160 He inspired not only the dummies first name, but also 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:58.000 his appearance, short red hair, high rosy cheekbones, and big 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.159 bright eyes. As for the ummy's personality, he. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:11.880 Was cocky and smart and ambitious for a dummy, and 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:12.920 very confident. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.200 How many of those characteristics describe your father? 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.840 None. 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:26.640 Edgar tended to be taciturn uneasy, and withdrawn. Candice describes 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:32.200 her father as stereotypically Swedish. Charlie gave Edgar a chance 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.480 to break out of his shell. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.240 I mean he could say anything through Charlie and he 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.440 wouldn't have to take the blame. 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.880 That is pretty handy to have to have an id 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:46.800 that you could just take with you. 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:47.760 Yeah. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:49.640 Right, and these are the things I want to be 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.240 able to say now. Edgar had not been raised to 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:54.240 work with a dummy. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.719 He was at Northwestern as a student. He was either 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:02.760 going to go into medicine or be a ventriloquism. It 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:03.120 was like. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:09.600 Humph, it was no to medicine, yes to ventriloquism. And 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.360 being a good ventriloquist meant learning to throw his voice. 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.800 And for people who don't know, can you explain what 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.280 does it mean to throw your voice? What does that mean? 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.120 It means that you squeeze it from your diaphragm and 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.520 it gives the illusion that your voice is coming from 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.840 across the room and that there's someone at the door, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.120 or that there's someone in the corner, and you go, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.840 who's in here. It's like a vocal illusion. 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:44.680 In its earliest ancient forms. Ventriloquism was associated with oracles 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:50.040 who claimed to address spirits dwelling inside their stomachs. By 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.119 the time Edgar Bergen was coming up, those so called 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.720 belly prophets had become known as belly talkers, a not 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:03.000 exactly prestigious form of entertain These were the days of vaudeville, 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.080 and for a decade, Edgar and Charlie played theaters across 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:11.600 the country. Luxurious this was not, and yet Edgar would 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.239 later describe this as the happiest time in his career. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:16.040 Yeah. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.880 You would talk about vaudeville and you know how getting 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.640 on the trains and sleeping on the trunks and just 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.880 going from town to town and it would be freezing cold, 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.640 and then it was baking hot. But he he loved it. 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.280 A typical vaudeville bill would include up to ten live 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.760 stage acts, running the gamut from established singers and comedians 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:45.600 to novelty acts like mind readers, jugglers, and trained lions. 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:51.160 Edgar and Charlie steadily climbed the ranks and eventually arrived 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:58.080 at the valhalla of vaudeville, performing at New York's Palace Theater. Wow. Yeah, 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.440 Playing the Palace was the pinnacle, Alice. 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.160 It was the pinnacle we always used to come to 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.640 New York and he would say, Candy, that is the 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:15.320 theater where your father performed in Vaudeville. And I was 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:20.600 so indifferent. I was just like, yeah, right, Edgar. 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.400 It turned out reached this peak just in time. Within 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.160 a few years, Vaudeville had been overtaken by motion pictures 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.480 and radio, and Vaudeville's over and your father had to 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:32.520 remake himself. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.720 That's when he started to make the break was when 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.920 he played the supper clubs in Chicago. I mean it 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.800 was very swanky. 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.160 The act was a hit in Chicago, and word made 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.000 its way west to a very influential entertainer. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:56.680 And Rudy Valley discovered my father, and then Rudy Valley 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.600 brought my father to Hollywood. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.200 Rudy Valley was a singer and bandleader with a popular 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:03.239 radio show. 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.440 Just Imagine the Dummy, and take my word for it 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.679 that both voices you will hear are owned and operated 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.760 by just one man, Edgar Bergen. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:18.120 Edgar and Charlie made their radio debut on Rudy Valley's 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.480 program in December nineteen thirty six. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.160 Why put a ventriloquist on the air. The answer is 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:24.640 why not? 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:25.800 True? 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:30.440 Our ventriloquist, Edgar Bergan, is an unusual one, sort of 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.800 Noel Coward or perhaps Fred Allen among ventriloquists, an extrous 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.440 fellow who depends more upon the cleverness and wit of 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.960 his material than upon the believe it or not nature 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:41.240 of his delivery. 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:49.520 A ventriloquist act on the radio. This doesn't make a 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.599 lot of sense to modern ears, so can you do 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:52.480 explain it. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:59.400 To any ears? But it gave him latitude. Charlie Kuitski, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:04.560 Charlie could ride horses, Charlie could climb mountains. There was 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:06.440 nothing they couldn't do on the radio. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:11.640 Wow, So ventriloquist act on the radio actually had more freedom, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.080 had more creative potential. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.439 Yeah, it was more engaging for the radio audience because 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:21.280 they were so un fettered. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.920 Let's hear a bit of the act from that first 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:25.240 radio broadcast. 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:30.120 Alcohol. It's nothing but slow poison, is la. It's slow poison? 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:30.880 Is that? 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:31.120 So? 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:37.480 Yes, slow poison, that's what it is. Slow poison is Well, 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:38.319 I'm in no hurry. 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:39.240 Well, let me say. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.360 That appearance was such a success they got their own show. Well, 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.800 Charlie got his own show, The. 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.480 Makers of Jason Samblan Coffee Bring You The Johnny McCarthy Show, 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.000 starring Edgar Bergen and Gnomy. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.800 The Golden Age of radio was just getting started. Edgar 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.360 and Charlie carroused with all the big stars of the day. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.720 Charlie, why don't you walk out on Bergen? 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:14.760 What's holding you? 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:15.640 He is? 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:21.559 His on air banter with legendary vamp May West caused controversy. 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:22.360 Why don't you. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.880 Come up home with me now, honey, I'll let you play. 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:31.800 In my woodpile. Charlie cracked wise with crooner Frank Sinatra. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.200 Well tell me, Charlie, what makes you think you could 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:35.120 make me a success? 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:40.200 Well look what I did for Bergen and Charlie fond 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:41.960 over a young Marilyn Monroe. 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.000 My dear, we were made for each other. 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.640 Just yes, gladly, all right. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:05.480 Charlie had particularly memorable exchanges with comedian W. C. Fields. 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.080 My only laugh you ever got was a sneer from 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:10.800 a disgruntled termite. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:11.199 Wow. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.800 I read somewhere that WC. Fields genuinely hated Charlie. Yeah, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.360 he probably did, called him a flop house for termites. 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.400 Or all we only you're down to a coat hanger. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:27.719 That was one line. 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.320 Around this time, Edgar and Charlie began appearing in movies 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.760 where the audience could see them at work. Here they 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.640 are in the nineteen thirty eight Backstage drama Letter of introduction. 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.240 You're not so clever e than mister. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:42.439 Oh I'm not well. 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.920 I can see your lips move. Oh that burns him up. You. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:53.760 He was not meticulous about his technique, really, because people 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:55.600 could always see him moving his lips. 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.080 Well, I was gonna say that. And why didn't that 0:13:58.120 --> 0:13:58.760 bother people? 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:05.120 Adienk because they were focused on the on Charlie and 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:06.280 the material was so. 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.080 Smart, and so the fact that you could see Edgar 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.160 Bergen's mouth moving a little bit, it's. 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.880 A lot, Okay, I think it was a lot. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.840 It should be noted that Edgar Bergen created other characters, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:24.840 the sweet but slow witted Mortimer Snurd. You don't get around. 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:25.920 Very much, do your Mortimer? 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:26.800 No? 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.240 No, I live with Grandpa. 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:29.800 You live? 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:31.440 Yeah? 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.160 I mean some people loved Mortimer, and he had his 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:52.080 own theme song, and. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.200 And then there was Spitfire Spinster, Effie Clinker. 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:53.760 You're not mate, No, I'm not No, no, damn it. 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:59.960 No one, and Effie had no interest for me, Charli. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.400 He was just not going to let these other characters shine. No, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:04.160 there was just no. 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.080 Way, no, and they weren't as equal. 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.280 In nineteen thirty seven, at the height of their fame, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.640 Edgar received an honorary oscar for the creation of Charlie. 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.840 The statuette itself was wooden with a movable mouth. And 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.560 then the next year another milestone of sorts, Edgar and 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.240 Charlie's radio show was airing at the same time as 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.680 Orson Wells's infamous War of the World's broadcast. You may 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.920 remember that that program led some listeners to believe that 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.880 Martians were invading rural New Jersey. 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.080 And things stopped in parts of the country. People were 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.560 so panic stricken because they thought we were being invaded 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:49.960 by aliens. It only didn't end life in America because 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.080 many people were listening to my father's radio show, which 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:55.600 was on at the same time. 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.280 Orson Wells later claimed that he received a telegram from 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.840 drama critic Alexander Walcott saying, quote, this only goes to 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.400 prove my beamish boy that all the intelligent people were 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.480 listening to that dummy and that all the dummies were 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:17.480 listening to you. Charlie even met to US Presidents FDR 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:18.680 and Harry Truman. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:24.040 Yeah, he met everybody. I have an invitation from Missus 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.640 Roosevelt to Charles McCarthy to lunch at the White House. 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.560 I don't know if my father was invited, but Charlie 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.320 is definitely invited. 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.120 This has really been a wonderful day for us. Yet 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:42.000 it has lunch at the White House, pot luck with Roosevelt. Yes. 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.720 By the time Candice Bergen was born in nineteen forty six, 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.960 Charlie McCarthy was a megastar, coming up after the break. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.440 A sibling rivalry unlike any other. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.399 Who Lizy, what is your father's name? Edgar Bergen? 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.720 In nineteen fifty eight, a young Candas Bergen appeared on 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.520 the comedy quiz show You Bet Your Life with Groucho Marx. 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:27.080 Your father is Edgar began the Swedish Nightingale. Yeah, well 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.840 then your brothers must be Charlie McCarthy and Motamus name. 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.840 It was not good for Charlie when I was born. 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.760 Charlie was always competition for me, and he always won. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.199 When Candasbergen was born in nineteen forty six, it was 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.199 kind of big news. Papers featured a photo of baby 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:52.440 Candace in her cradle, lovingly surrounded by father Edgar, mother Francis, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.720 and yes, Charlie. The photo caption in the Los Angeles 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.960 Times actually read Charlie's new can. 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:06.080 I mean it was. It was an eccentric childhood when 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.639 we used to have breakfast, the three of us, my father, Charlie, 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.600 and I, and we would sit at the table and 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.359 my father would put me on one knee and Charlie 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.679 on the other, and he would have us talk to 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:21.160 each other. 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.600 Were you actually talking in this scenario you were on 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.880 I was talking, but my father was squeezing my neck 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.800 to cue me when to move my mouth to start talking. 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:39.560 I find photographs sometimes of me when I was like 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.800 seven or eight, and I am giving Charlie a look 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.080 that's like as soon as my father leaves, I am 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.320 going to put a knife in your rip. I mean, 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.879 it's like I cannot wait to kill this thing. 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.800 Probably know him. She captures their relationship more than the 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.600 Christmas photo that you took when Candace was just three. 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.640 There's no other way to say it. It's pretty creepy. 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.040 She and Charlie stand at the top of a dark 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:19.240 staircase in matching footy pajamas. Candas is holding a lip 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:24.120 candle while Charlie, wearing his monocle, just kind of hovers. 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.600 Both glare straight ahead, just. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.600 About to push him down the stairs, just on the cusp, 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.760 and I'm looking so unhappy, I'm scowling. 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.080 So when you say that you wanted to push Charlie 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.080 down the stairs or stab him, was it that you 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.440 were annoyed? Was it that you were jealous? 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:48.880 Jealous? I was jealous. 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.000 Yeah, but killing Charlie didn't really make a lot of sense, 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.120 and not just because you can't kill a puppet. 0:19:55.520 --> 0:20:00.720 He was the head of the family. He wasn't just 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:02.640 a member of the family. 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:04.560 What was that like for your mother? 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:12.520 Such a good question. My mother dealt with it with 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:14.200 tremendous grace. 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.000 Francis Bergen was an actress and fashion model from Alabama. 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:26.119 Her face graced billboards as both the Ipana Girl for 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:32.040 Ipana toothpaste and the Chesterfield Girl for Chesterfield Cigarettes. She 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.359 was only nineteen when she met Edgar. 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.919 She met my father at his radio show. She was 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.000 in the front row, right, and she had very long 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.119 legs and she was sitting in the front row wearing 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.000 a skirt and heels, and my father saw her legs 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.920 and went about meeting her afterwards. 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.639 Edgar, who had never married, was thirty nine and a 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.240 major star, and there was a big age difference. 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.920 Yeah, about twenty years. He was a very good candidate 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.280 for marriage, and she loved him. 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.360 They were married in Mexico in the summer of nineteen 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.400 forty five. And do you think after the wedding, when 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.960 they started home together, she thought there are three of 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:15.560 us in this marriage. 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:20.639 Oh, very much so, and accepted it. I mean everybody 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:22.120 accepted it. Yeah. 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.680 One of the crazy ways that the press participated. There's 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:31.160 an LA Times headline after your parents get engaged, and 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:38.200 it says will Charlie let Bergen wed. Oh gosh, everyone 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:39.080 was all in on this. 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.920 It's just really weirdness beyond what should be allowed. 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.240 Before long, Candice began making appearances with her father and 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:50.720 her sort of brother. 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.240 We go on my father's radio show together. Obviously, Charlie 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.199 was regular, he was on every show since it was 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.800 the Charlie Courthy Show. But I would go on and 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:07.080 we would compete with each other for my father's attention. 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:11.320 Tonight, Charlly. Tonight, my little daughter Candy is going to 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:16.199 be on this show. Yeah, and that's why I'm so happy, 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:20.160 you know, she she's the apple of my eyes. Yes 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.920 I know, but don't forget buster. I'm the cabbage of 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:24.680 the bank book. 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:30.520 Yes, Candace was just nine years old in this radio 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:34.200 show appearance, and it seems like her father is stoking 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:35.040 the rivalry. 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:44.760 Candy, my my own little Candy. Oh Jesus, yes, tonight tonight, 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:48.240 my heart is full of joy. Tonight my little girl 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:56.440 steps out into the footlights of life down down ply Snoke. 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:01.600 She's getting laughs too, watching Kidrin. There's only one star 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:03.280 on this show. Just remember that. 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.800 Candice was living in Charlie's shadow, but so was her father. 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:10.879 But I want to be on the show, Charlie. I 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.520 want to be just like daddy. Oh no, ambitionary. 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.760 I remember that dialogue. I guess he was a real 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:22.560 smartness on some level. 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:26.880 Did you love Charlie? 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:27.199 No? 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:35.120 But I felt connected to him sometimes uncomfortably connected to him. 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:38.119 There were moments when I liked him. It depended on 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:43.000 my father, because you know, my father was the guy 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:43.760 behind him. 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:48.040 Did Charlie make it more difficult for you to get 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:50.120 close to your father, Did it seem that way. 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:55.359 I spent less time with my father when he was 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:59.240 with Charlie because he was working with Charlie, and so 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:03.879 Charlie always go with him in the car in his trunk. 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:07.640 But I was just jealous of the time. I think 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.160 the time and the importance he was so important. 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:16.359 Candice relished the one on one time with her father 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:17.520 that she did get. 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:21.480 We'd go fishing, we'd go in his plane. He'd put 0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:23.960 phone books on the seat for me and I'd get 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:28.000 to fly. We'd go to Palm Springs and we'd we'd 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.200 just have like little trips together. 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:33.520 That was just the two of us without Charlie. Yeah, 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:35.600 no Charlie, Charlie free zone. 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:39.440 Yeah, Charlie free zone and mother free zone. 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:40.960 Was just us. 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:46.000 That's pretty special. Can I ask you, do you remember 0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.840 the first time that you said I love you to 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:49.399 your father. 0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:56.720 I don't know that I ever did, because I never 0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:06.159 heard it from him. Think I think it was and 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:08.520 my mother too. It was a big struggle for me 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:13.280 because I had to, like because I wanted to hear 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:18.679 it from my parents so much. I'm sure I probably 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:22.520 forced my father to say it some way when I 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:26.280 was older, like thirteen or fourteen when I got into 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:33.680 that sticky age. But and I dimly remember him saying yes, 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:37.919 well I love you to him, it's like, okay, can 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:38.760 we move on now. 0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:44.719 When Candace was fifteen, her brother Chris was born, and 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:48.159 this was an actual flesh and blood brother. And you 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:50.119 just loved your little brother. 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:53.560 I did. And we're still very very close. Yeah, except 0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:56.520 he's six ' three now, so he's not a little 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:57.440 brother anymore. 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:01.399