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Speaker 1: How often does Charlie cross your mind?

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Speaker 2: Oh, not as often as you think, but probably once

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Speaker 2: a week.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever dreamed about him?

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Speaker 3: Not?

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Speaker 2: Since I've been an adult. I think it's amazing that

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Speaker 2: I'm a walking, talking person, frankly, and nobody gives me

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Speaker 2: credit for that. The fact that I'm like a normal

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Speaker 2: person is a miracle.

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking with actress Candice Bergen. You probably know her

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Speaker 1: best as TV's Murphy Brown. It's a role that won

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Speaker 1: her five Emmys.

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Speaker 4: Which one of you turkeys got their greasy fingerprints all

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Speaker 4: over my emmy?

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Speaker 2: All right, too bad?

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Speaker 1: But her real life story could be its own TV series,

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Speaker 1: more Twilight Zone than Sitcom, you see. Candace Sperking grew

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Speaker 1: up with a rather unusual sibling, and he.

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Speaker 2: Was always called my brother since I was a little kid.

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Speaker 2: It was like and your brother, Charlie. There was always

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Speaker 2: such an aura around him in the house. He had

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Speaker 2: his own room next to mine. It was a guest room,

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Speaker 2: but it was called Charlie's room. And Charlie was in

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Speaker 2: the closet. Oh did he sleep in the closet. He

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Speaker 2: would hang in the closet and his different heads would

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Speaker 2: hang in the closet. And he had a sleepy head

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Speaker 2: and an old head and an angry head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for Charlie's different moods, exactly without your father manipulating him.

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Speaker 1: He must have looked.

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Speaker 2: Dead, not dead enough, he was always living.

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Speaker 1: The Charlie we're talking about is Charlie McCarry. And if

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Speaker 1: you haven't figured it out already, Charlie was a dummy, yes,

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Speaker 1: a boy made of wood. And Candace's father, Edgar Bergen,

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Speaker 1: was the ventriloquist who brought him to life.

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Speaker 5: Well, I believe in letting a boy work for his money, Yes,

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Speaker 5: you approve. Man.

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Speaker 1: Listeners of a certain age will remember Charlie as the

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Speaker 1: ultimate smart alec, usually dressed in a tuxedo with a

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Speaker 1: top hat and monocle. And for a time, this dummy

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Speaker 1: was one of this country's biggest stars.

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Speaker 5: Miss West.

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Speaker 6: This is the famous Charlie McCarthy.

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Speaker 5: Oh hello, shot up doctor handsome, how tall, blonde and terrific.

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Speaker 2: He was like a head of state, a minor state,

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Speaker 2: you know, like Monaca.

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Speaker 1: Well he had his own coat of arms, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah he did. He had a Charlie McCarthy crest an,

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Speaker 2: a scepter and a crown. I thought this guy must

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Speaker 2: really rate.

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Speaker 1: Charlie was kind of like God him. Well, he was

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Speaker 1: to me from CBS Sunday Morning, and iHeart, I'm Morocca

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Speaker 1: and this is mobituaries, this moment. Charlie McCarthy September thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, death of a dummy.

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Speaker 2: I'm so proud of how weird and eccentric my childhood was.

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Speaker 2: Nobody as a childhood as weird as me. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I knew a lot of people whose parents were famous,

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Speaker 2: and none of them did anything nearly as weird as

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Speaker 2: my father.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, Nancy Sinatra, Liza Minelli, Jane Fonda all had

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Speaker 1: famous parents, but they were normal. They weren't living with dummies.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: We're going to continue with Kandisbergen's weird and eccentric childhood

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Speaker 1: in Act two. But in this act, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: tell you the story of her father's unlikely and spectacular

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Speaker 1: rise to fame as a ventriloquest because there is no

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Speaker 1: Charlie McCarthy without Edgar Bergen. Edgar Bergen was born in

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Speaker 1: Chicago to Swedish immigrants in nineteen oh three. At age eleven,

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Speaker 1: he began ventriloquism from a book he'd purchased for a quarter.

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Speaker 1: At sixteen, he managed to impress a touring vaudeville performer

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Speaker 1: known as the Great Leicster, enough so to get a

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Speaker 1: few months of free one on one lessons in ventriloquism.

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Speaker 5: In my first year at high school, I discovered I

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Speaker 5: was a ventriloquist, and I earned my first dishonest money

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Speaker 5: answering roll calls.

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Speaker 7: From missing classmates.

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Speaker 1: In my senior year, I teamed up with Charlie.

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Speaker 5: We've been partners ever since.

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Speaker 1: Charlie was made to order. Edgar had paid Chicago woodcarver

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Speaker 1: Theodore Mack thirty five dollars to carve Charlie's head.

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Speaker 2: Well. My father based the look of him on a

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Speaker 2: newsboy in his neighborhood in Illinois.

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Speaker 1: This newsy An Irish kid named Charlie was around Edgar's age.

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Speaker 1: He inspired not only the dummies first name, but also

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Speaker 1: his appearance, short red hair, high rosy cheekbones, and big

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Speaker 1: bright eyes. As for the ummy's personality, he.

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Speaker 2: Was cocky and smart and ambitious for a dummy, and

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Speaker 2: very confident.

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Speaker 1: How many of those characteristics describe your father?

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Speaker 2: None.

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Speaker 1: Edgar tended to be taciturn uneasy, and withdrawn. Candice describes

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Speaker 1: her father as stereotypically Swedish. Charlie gave Edgar a chance

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Speaker 1: to break out of his shell.

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Speaker 2: I mean he could say anything through Charlie and he

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have to take the blame.

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Speaker 1: That is pretty handy to have to have an id

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Speaker 1: that you could just take with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, and these are the things I want to be

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Speaker 1: able to say now. Edgar had not been raised to

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Speaker 1: work with a dummy.

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Speaker 2: He was at Northwestern as a student. He was either

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Speaker 2: going to go into medicine or be a ventriloquism. It

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Speaker 2: was like.

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Speaker 1: Humph, it was no to medicine, yes to ventriloquism. And

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Speaker 1: being a good ventriloquist meant learning to throw his voice.

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Speaker 1: And for people who don't know, can you explain what

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Speaker 1: does it mean to throw your voice? What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: It means that you squeeze it from your diaphragm and

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Speaker 2: it gives the illusion that your voice is coming from

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Speaker 2: across the room and that there's someone at the door,

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Speaker 2: or that there's someone in the corner, and you go,

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Speaker 2: who's in here. It's like a vocal illusion.

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Speaker 1: In its earliest ancient forms. Ventriloquism was associated with oracles

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Speaker 1: who claimed to address spirits dwelling inside their stomachs. By

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Speaker 1: the time Edgar Bergen was coming up, those so called

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Speaker 1: belly prophets had become known as belly talkers, a not

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Speaker 1: exactly prestigious form of entertain These were the days of vaudeville,

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Speaker 1: and for a decade, Edgar and Charlie played theaters across

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Speaker 1: the country. Luxurious this was not, and yet Edgar would

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Speaker 1: later describe this as the happiest time in his career.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You would talk about vaudeville and you know how getting

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Speaker 2: on the trains and sleeping on the trunks and just

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Speaker 2: going from town to town and it would be freezing cold,

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Speaker 2: and then it was baking hot. But he he loved it.

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Speaker 1: A typical vaudeville bill would include up to ten live

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Speaker 1: stage acts, running the gamut from established singers and comedians

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Speaker 1: to novelty acts like mind readers, jugglers, and trained lions.

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Speaker 1: Edgar and Charlie steadily climbed the ranks and eventually arrived

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Speaker 1: at the valhalla of vaudeville, performing at New York's Palace Theater. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Playing the Palace was the pinnacle, Alice.

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Speaker 2: It was the pinnacle we always used to come to

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Speaker 2: New York and he would say, Candy, that is the

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Speaker 2: theater where your father performed in Vaudeville. And I was

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Speaker 2: so indifferent. I was just like, yeah, right, Edgar.

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Speaker 1: It turned out reached this peak just in time. Within

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Speaker 1: a few years, Vaudeville had been overtaken by motion pictures

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Speaker 1: and radio, and Vaudeville's over and your father had to

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Speaker 1: remake himself.

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Speaker 2: That's when he started to make the break was when

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Speaker 2: he played the supper clubs in Chicago. I mean it

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Speaker 2: was very swanky.

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Speaker 1: The act was a hit in Chicago, and word made

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Speaker 1: its way west to a very influential entertainer.

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Speaker 2: And Rudy Valley discovered my father, and then Rudy Valley

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Speaker 2: brought my father to Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Rudy Valley was a singer and bandleader with a popular

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Speaker 1: radio show.

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Speaker 6: Just Imagine the Dummy, and take my word for it

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Speaker 6: that both voices you will hear are owned and operated

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Speaker 6: by just one man, Edgar Bergen.

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Speaker 1: Edgar and Charlie made their radio debut on Rudy Valley's

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Speaker 1: program in December nineteen thirty six.

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Speaker 6: Why put a ventriloquist on the air. The answer is

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Speaker 6: why not?

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Speaker 5: True?

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Speaker 6: Our ventriloquist, Edgar Bergan, is an unusual one, sort of

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Speaker 6: Noel Coward or perhaps Fred Allen among ventriloquists, an extrous

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Speaker 6: fellow who depends more upon the cleverness and wit of

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Speaker 6: his material than upon the believe it or not nature

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Speaker 6: of his delivery.

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Speaker 1: A ventriloquist act on the radio. This doesn't make a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense to modern ears, so can you do

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Speaker 1: explain it.

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Speaker 2: To any ears? But it gave him latitude. Charlie Kuitski,

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Speaker 2: Charlie could ride horses, Charlie could climb mountains. There was

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Speaker 2: nothing they couldn't do on the radio.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So ventriloquist act on the radio actually had more freedom,

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Speaker 1: had more creative potential.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was more engaging for the radio audience because

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Speaker 2: they were so un fettered.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear a bit of the act from that first

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Speaker 1: radio broadcast.

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Speaker 5: Alcohol. It's nothing but slow poison, is la. It's slow poison?

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Speaker 2: Is that?

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Speaker 5: So?

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Speaker 1: Yes, slow poison, that's what it is. Slow poison is Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm in no hurry.

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Speaker 8: Well, let me say.

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Speaker 1: That appearance was such a success they got their own show. Well,

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Speaker 1: Charlie got his own show, The.

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Speaker 5: Makers of Jason Samblan Coffee Bring You The Johnny McCarthy Show,

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Speaker 5: starring Edgar Bergen and Gnomy.

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Speaker 1: The Golden Age of radio was just getting started. Edgar

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Speaker 1: and Charlie carroused with all the big stars of the day.

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Speaker 2: Charlie, why don't you walk out on Bergen?

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Speaker 6: What's holding you?

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Speaker 8: He is?

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Speaker 1: His on air banter with legendary vamp May West caused controversy.

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Speaker 5: Why don't you.

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Speaker 6: Come up home with me now, honey, I'll let you play.

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Speaker 1: In my woodpile. Charlie cracked wise with crooner Frank Sinatra.

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Speaker 9: Well tell me, Charlie, what makes you think you could

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Speaker 9: make me a success?

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Speaker 1: Well look what I did for Bergen and Charlie fond

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Speaker 1: over a young Marilyn Monroe.

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Speaker 8: My dear, we were made for each other.

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Speaker 5: Just yes, gladly, all right.

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Speaker 1: Charlie had particularly memorable exchanges with comedian W. C. Fields.

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Speaker 8: My only laugh you ever got was a sneer from

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Speaker 8: a disgruntled termite.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 1: I read somewhere that WC. Fields genuinely hated Charlie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he probably did, called him a flop house for termites.

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Speaker 2: Or all we only you're down to a coat hanger.

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Speaker 2: That was one line.

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Speaker 1: Around this time, Edgar and Charlie began appearing in movies

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Speaker 1: where the audience could see them at work. Here they

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Speaker 1: are in the nineteen thirty eight Backstage drama Letter of introduction.

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Speaker 5: You're not so clever e than mister.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'm not well.

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Speaker 5: I can see your lips move. Oh that burns him up. You.

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Speaker 2: He was not meticulous about his technique, really, because people

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Speaker 2: could always see him moving his lips.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say that. And why didn't that

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Speaker 1: bother people?

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Speaker 2: Adienk because they were focused on the on Charlie and

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Speaker 2: the material was so.

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Speaker 1: Smart, and so the fact that you could see Edgar

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Speaker 1: Bergen's mouth moving a little bit, it's.

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Speaker 2: A lot, Okay, I think it was a lot.

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Speaker 1: It should be noted that Edgar Bergen created other characters,

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Speaker 1: the sweet but slow witted Mortimer Snurd. You don't get around.

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Speaker 5: Very much, do your Mortimer?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: No, I live with Grandpa.

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Speaker 7: You live?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean some people loved Mortimer, and he had his

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Speaker 2: own theme song, and.

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Speaker 1: And then there was Spitfire Spinster, Effie Clinker.

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Speaker 5: You're not mate, No, I'm not No, no, damn it.

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Speaker 2: No one, and Effie had no interest for me, Charli.

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Speaker 1: He was just not going to let these other characters shine. No,

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Speaker 1: there was just no.

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Speaker 2: Way, no, and they weren't as equal.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty seven, at the height of their fame,

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Speaker 1: Edgar received an honorary oscar for the creation of Charlie.

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Speaker 1: The statuette itself was wooden with a movable mouth. And

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Speaker 1: then the next year another milestone of sorts, Edgar and

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Speaker 1: Charlie's radio show was airing at the same time as

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Speaker 1: Orson Wells's infamous War of the World's broadcast. You may

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Speaker 1: remember that that program led some listeners to believe that

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Speaker 1: Martians were invading rural New Jersey.

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Speaker 2: And things stopped in parts of the country. People were

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Speaker 2: so panic stricken because they thought we were being invaded

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Speaker 2: by aliens. It only didn't end life in America because

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Speaker 2: many people were listening to my father's radio show, which

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Speaker 2: was on at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Orson Wells later claimed that he received a telegram from

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Speaker 1: drama critic Alexander Walcott saying, quote, this only goes to

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Speaker 1: prove my beamish boy that all the intelligent people were

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Speaker 1: listening to that dummy and that all the dummies were

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Speaker 1: listening to you. Charlie even met to US Presidents FDR

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Speaker 1: and Harry Truman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he met everybody. I have an invitation from Missus

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Speaker 2: Roosevelt to Charles McCarthy to lunch at the White House.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if my father was invited, but Charlie

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Speaker 2: is definitely invited.

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Speaker 5: This has really been a wonderful day for us. Yet

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Speaker 5: it has lunch at the White House, pot luck with Roosevelt. Yes.

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Speaker 1: By the time Candice Bergen was born in nineteen forty six,

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Speaker 1: Charlie McCarthy was a megastar, coming up after the break.

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Speaker 1: A sibling rivalry unlike any other.

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Speaker 5: Who Lizy, what is your father's name? Edgar Bergen?

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Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty eight, a young Candas Bergen appeared on

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Speaker 1: the comedy quiz show You Bet Your Life with Groucho Marx.

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Speaker 5: Your father is Edgar began the Swedish Nightingale. Yeah, well

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Speaker 5: then your brothers must be Charlie McCarthy and Motamus name.

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Speaker 2: It was not good for Charlie when I was born.

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Speaker 2: Charlie was always competition for me, and he always won.

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Speaker 1: When Candasbergen was born in nineteen forty six, it was

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Speaker 1: kind of big news. Papers featured a photo of baby

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Speaker 1: Candace in her cradle, lovingly surrounded by father Edgar, mother Francis,

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Speaker 1: and yes, Charlie. The photo caption in the Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: Times actually read Charlie's new can.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was. It was an eccentric childhood when

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Speaker 2: we used to have breakfast, the three of us, my father, Charlie,

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Speaker 2: and I, and we would sit at the table and

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Speaker 2: my father would put me on one knee and Charlie

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Speaker 2: on the other, and he would have us talk to

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Speaker 2: each other.

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Speaker 3: Were you actually talking in this scenario you were on

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Speaker 3: I was talking, but my father was squeezing my neck

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Speaker 3: to cue me when to move my mouth to start talking.

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Speaker 2: I find photographs sometimes of me when I was like

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Speaker 2: seven or eight, and I am giving Charlie a look

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Speaker 2: that's like as soon as my father leaves, I am

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Speaker 2: going to put a knife in your rip. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's like I cannot wait to kill this thing.

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Speaker 1: Probably know him. She captures their relationship more than the

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Speaker 1: Christmas photo that you took when Candace was just three.

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Speaker 1: There's no other way to say it. It's pretty creepy.

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Speaker 1: She and Charlie stand at the top of a dark

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Speaker 1: staircase in matching footy pajamas. Candas is holding a lip

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Speaker 1: candle while Charlie, wearing his monocle, just kind of hovers.

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Speaker 1: Both glare straight ahead, just.

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Speaker 2: About to push him down the stairs, just on the cusp,

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Speaker 2: and I'm looking so unhappy, I'm scowling.

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Speaker 1: So when you say that you wanted to push Charlie

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Speaker 1: down the stairs or stab him, was it that you

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Speaker 1: were annoyed? Was it that you were jealous?

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Speaker 2: Jealous? I was jealous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but killing Charlie didn't really make a lot of sense,

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Speaker 1: and not just because you can't kill a puppet.

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Speaker 2: He was the head of the family. He wasn't just

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Speaker 2: a member of the family.

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Speaker 1: What was that like for your mother?

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Speaker 2: Such a good question. My mother dealt with it with

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Speaker 2: tremendous grace.

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Speaker 1: Francis Bergen was an actress and fashion model from Alabama.

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Speaker 1: Her face graced billboards as both the Ipana Girl for

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Speaker 1: Ipana toothpaste and the Chesterfield Girl for Chesterfield Cigarettes. She

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Speaker 1: was only nineteen when she met Edgar.

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Speaker 2: She met my father at his radio show. She was

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Speaker 2: in the front row, right, and she had very long

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Speaker 2: legs and she was sitting in the front row wearing

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Speaker 2: a skirt and heels, and my father saw her legs

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Speaker 2: and went about meeting her afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Edgar, who had never married, was thirty nine and a

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Speaker 1: major star, and there was a big age difference.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, about twenty years. He was a very good candidate

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Speaker 2: for marriage, and she loved him.

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Speaker 1: They were married in Mexico in the summer of nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty five. And do you think after the wedding, when

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Speaker 1: they started home together, she thought there are three of

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Speaker 1: us in this marriage.

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Speaker 2: Oh, very much so, and accepted it. I mean everybody

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Speaker 2: accepted it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the crazy ways that the press participated. There's

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Speaker 1: an LA Times headline after your parents get engaged, and

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Speaker 1: it says will Charlie let Bergen wed. Oh gosh, everyone

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Speaker 1: was all in on this.

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Speaker 2: It's just really weirdness beyond what should be allowed.

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Speaker 1: Before long, Candice began making appearances with her father and

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Speaker 1: her sort of brother.

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Speaker 2: We go on my father's radio show together. Obviously, Charlie

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Speaker 2: was regular, he was on every show since it was

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Speaker 2: the Charlie Courthy Show. But I would go on and

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Speaker 2: we would compete with each other for my father's attention.

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Speaker 5: Tonight, Charlly. Tonight, my little daughter Candy is going to

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Speaker 5: be on this show. Yeah, and that's why I'm so happy,

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Speaker 5: you know, she she's the apple of my eyes. Yes

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Speaker 5: I know, but don't forget buster. I'm the cabbage of

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Speaker 5: the bank book.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Candace was just nine years old in this radio

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Speaker 1: show appearance, and it seems like her father is stoking

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Speaker 1: the rivalry.

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Speaker 5: Candy, my my own little Candy. Oh Jesus, yes, tonight tonight,

350
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Speaker 5: my heart is full of joy. Tonight my little girl

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Speaker 5: steps out into the footlights of life down down ply Snoke.

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Speaker 5: She's getting laughs too, watching Kidrin. There's only one star

353
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Speaker 5: on this show. Just remember that.

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Speaker 1: Candice was living in Charlie's shadow, but so was her father.

355
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Speaker 5: But I want to be on the show, Charlie. I

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Speaker 5: want to be just like daddy. Oh no, ambitionary.

357
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Speaker 2: I remember that dialogue. I guess he was a real

358
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Speaker 2: smartness on some level.

359
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Speaker 1: Did you love Charlie?

360
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Speaker 3: No?

361
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Speaker 2: But I felt connected to him sometimes uncomfortably connected to him.

362
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Speaker 2: There were moments when I liked him. It depended on

363
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Speaker 2: my father, because you know, my father was the guy

364
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Speaker 2: behind him.

365
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Speaker 1: Did Charlie make it more difficult for you to get

366
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Speaker 1: close to your father, Did it seem that way.

367
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: I spent less time with my father when he was

368
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: with Charlie because he was working with Charlie, and so

369
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Speaker 2: Charlie always go with him in the car in his trunk.

370
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 2: But I was just jealous of the time. I think

371
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Speaker 2: the time and the importance he was so important.

372
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: Candice relished the one on one time with her father

373
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Speaker 1: that she did get.

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00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: We'd go fishing, we'd go in his plane. He'd put

375
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: phone books on the seat for me and I'd get

376
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: to fly. We'd go to Palm Springs and we'd we'd

377
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: just have like little trips together.

378
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: That was just the two of us without Charlie. Yeah,

379
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: no Charlie, Charlie free zone.

380
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Charlie free zone and mother free zone.

381
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 4: Was just us.

382
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: That's pretty special. Can I ask you, do you remember

383
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: the first time that you said I love you to

384
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: your father.

385
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: I don't know that I ever did, because I never

386
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 2: heard it from him. Think I think it was and

387
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: my mother too. It was a big struggle for me

388
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: because I had to, like because I wanted to hear

389
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: it from my parents so much. I'm sure I probably

390
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: forced my father to say it some way when I

391
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: was older, like thirteen or fourteen when I got into

392
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 2: that sticky age. But and I dimly remember him saying yes,

393
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 2: well I love you to him, it's like, okay, can

394
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: we move on now.

395
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 1: When Candace was fifteen, her brother Chris was born, and

396
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: this was an actual flesh and blood brother. And you

397
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: just loved your little brother.

398
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: I did. And we're still very very close. Yeah, except

399
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: he's six ' three now, so he's not a little

400
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 2: brother anymore.

401
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: By this time, Candace was becoming more and more comfortable

402
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: in the spotlight. At eighteen, she appeared on the TV

403
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: program The Hollywood Palace, hosted by Purl Lives Edgar.

404
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 7: I hope you won't mind if I tell the book

405
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 7: something about the lovely young girl who appeared in your act.

406
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 7: Ladies and gentlemen, That charming young lady and Edgar's act

407
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 7: was his eighteen year old daughter Ken look out.

408
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 2: Ahire you gentlemen.

409
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 5: Isn't she beautiful?

410
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: Well?

411
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 5: Thank you, Charlie, just my love.

412
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: She has to be my sister.

413
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, it was the family business, Yes, it was.

414
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: Very much so.

415
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: Do you think your father was ever resentful of Charlie?

416
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think he created a monster everybody wanted Charlie

417
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: and they didn't want my father.

418
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: Edgar's dream was to appear in movie musicals.

419
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: My father did a few things by himself, but really

420
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: Charlie was the draw. My father had to fight to

421
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: get billing above Charlie. On the radio show, it was

422
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 2: always the Charlie McCarthy Show with Edgar Bergen.

423
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: There's a quote where your father said at one point,

424
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: Charlie is famous and I am the forgotten man. Yeah,

425
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: did he mean that seriously?

426
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 8: Yeah?

427
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: I don't think he would have admitted it, but yeah,

428
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: Charlie just stole his thunder.

429
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: On the other side of the break, A father's star

430
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: wanes as his daughter's star rises. Ladies and ten. In

431
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, ventriloquist Edgar Bergen and his daughter Candice Bergen,

432
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: then aged nineteen, appeared on the game show What's My Line.

433
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: There's an ease and warmth between the two of them,

434
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: but their careers were moving in different directions.

435
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 6: Look Magazine said it, and today The New York Daily

436
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 6: News had a wonderful piece about Candy's is.

437
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 9: One of the great stars of the future in the

438
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 9: American cinema.

439
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: Right in the.

440
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: Right but as the stars of the past, right, and

441
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: your father says kind of under his breath, and I'm

442
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: a star of the past.

443
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 2: Well it's true. Yeah.

444
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: Edgar and Charlie's hugely popular radio shows ran for nearly

445
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: two decades until nineteen fifty six, but by the nineteen

446
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: sixties the novelty of their act had long since faded.

447
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: Was that period hard for your father when Charlie became

448
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: less popular and people just didn't care?

449
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: Well, Charlie becoming less popular? Was my father also becoming

450
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: less popular and he'd also he'd aged out. That happens

451
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: to all of us.

452
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: Well, we're still getting a lot of work. But Kandasbergen

453
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: has been a star for six decades. Her rise started

454
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: back in the nineteen sixties.

455
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: Snobbish, fierce, contradictory, and controversial. I'm Kandisbergen, who portrays Lacky

456
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: in The.

457
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: Group, That's Candice and the trailer for the nineteen sixty

458
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: six movie The Group her screen debut. By that time,

459
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: she'd had success as a fashion model. At twenty one,

460
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: she landed on the cover of Vogue, Working both sides

461
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: of the camera. She pursued a career as a photojournalist

462
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: in tandem with acting, and in nineteen seventy one, she

463
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: starred opposite Jack Nicholson in Carnal Knowledge.

464
00:29:54,040 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: Bo Are you really something? I don't feel like something.

465
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: I feel like nothing.

466
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 1: Her performance in the movie Starting Over earned her an

467
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: Academy Award nomination. On TV, she hosted Saturday Night Live

468
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: in its inaugural season and made history.

469
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 4: I am very happy to be here tonight. I am

470
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 4: also especially happy to be here and Saturday Night's first

471
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 4: woman host. This may not make up for the era

472
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 4: vote the other day, but at least did something.

473
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: While her father was a traditional Republican, Candace campaigned for

474
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern. She associated with and supported

475
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: activists like Abbi Hoffman. She was arrested at an anti

476
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: war sit in. By the early nineteen seventies, Candace was

477
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: a lot more than the daughter of a ventriloquest What

478
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: was that like? Do you think for your father when

479
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: he went from being Edgar Bergen too being Candasan's father.

480
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: It was an adjustment for people in our house, for

481
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: I mean for my mother, for my father, for I

482
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: think he was proud of me, But at the same time,

483
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure he was very mixed about it.

484
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Charlie was spending most of his time in a trunk,

485
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: pulled out only occasionally to play small stages or conventions.

486
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: Edgar himself had aged into an emeritus figure. Johnny Carson,

487
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: who'd gotten his start as a magician, was a longtime

488
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: fan of Edgar Bergins and had him on his show.

489
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: Watching Edgar on The Tonight Show in nineteen seventy seven

490
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: without his scene partner is bittersweet. They always said.

491
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 9: The venture was basically, remember when they were talking about you,

492
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 9: that you were a shy man, and you use Charlie

493
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 9: and more just to sayings. But they feel more comfortable

494
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 9: saying than you would if you said them.

495
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: Is there any truth to that?

496
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: I mean, you can be I guess.

497
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: I hate to admit it, but I guess it certainly is.

498
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 5: Because I wish I could walk into a room and

499
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 5: be accepted as readily as Charlie and martinmer.

500
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: I've tried it and it doesn't work. I'm just no.

501
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: In September nineteen seventy eight, nearly sixty years after the

502
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: act was born, Edgar Bergen and his Wooden sidekick, convened

503
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 1: a press conference in Los Angeles, to announce their retirement.

504
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: Here's Charlie addressing reporters.

505
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 5: I just am not going to admit it my last performance.

506
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep hoping you you.

507
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 5: Take your pills and we can do it through benefits anyway.

508
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: They would play one final two week engagement at Caesar's

509
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: Palace in Las Vegas. Do you remember your father's farewell

510
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: performances at Caesar's Palace?

511
00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: What was that like? It was very emotional. In fact,

512
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm getting emotional now thinking about it.

513
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: He was dressed in his white tie and tails, which

514
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: he never usually performed in.

515
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: Candace, her mother, Frances, and her brother Chris were all

516
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: there on opening night.

517
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: We were in a bonkhead in front of him, and

518
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: it was so emotional for us.

519
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: Edgar and Charlie snapped back into the old routines as

520
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: if they'd never stopped doing them. Candace says that despite

521
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: his recent hospitalization, her father's performance was flawless, and he

522
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: wrote that you looked over and you saw your mother

523
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: was mouthing the words.

524
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, she'd heard them all so many times, and he

525
00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: used old material, but he made it fresh. And we

526
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: went backstage afterward and I just talked him. I'm surprised

527
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: at how much it's effectively.

528
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: Was he surprised at the turnout that that people wanted

529
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: to see him off because he.

530
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 2: Had it had been it had been tough year for

531
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 2: that lean years. Yeah, he'd been performing in really p dunk.

532
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: To me, what's so beautiful about it is somebody who

533
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: does have these lean years and has been performing this

534
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: act for almost sixty years, and then at the end

535
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: in this big venue it's a big deal, and that

536
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: you all were there for it.

537
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: It was great. It was a great goodbye for him

538
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: to have. And then he died.

539
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: Just three nights into the run. Edgar Bergan died in

540
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 1: his sleep in his Las Vegas hotel room.

541
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 10: He began his career with not much more than a

542
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 10: block of wood and his native wit, which was plenty.

543
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 10: But when Edgar Bergen died Saturday at age seventy five,

544
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 10: more than the entertainment world took notice.

545
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 2: I remember his funeral. Carl Reiner was walking in and

546
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: he said, I hope I can have a ending like that.

547
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: This for a performer, that's what you want. The Muppet

548
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: Movie was dedicated to his memory. Jim Henson just worshiped

549
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: your father. Sounds like that was very nice. He spoke

550
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 2: at the memorial and he brought hermit.

551
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: Is that right?

552
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't your usual funeral? And Reagan spoke.

553
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 8: There was of course Edgar, the kindly and modest man.

554
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 8: We all knew there was never any cruelty in the

555
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 8: laughter that he brought to us. But there was an

556
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 8: Edgar Bergen who in truth was the puckish, pixie like

557
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,439
Speaker 8: destroyer of the pampas Charlie.

558
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: Johnny Carson also spoke about Edgar's utter lack of pretension.

559
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 2: He was the most unpretentious man, the most modest, just

560
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 2: again Swedish.

561
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: Was Charlie at the memorial?

562
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: No he was not, No, that would have been too weird. God.

563
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: Edgar Bergen left ten thousand dollars in his will for

564
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: the Charlie McCarthy fund, but nothing for Candace.

565
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: That was a bitter pill.

566
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: What do you think that was about? Why did he

567
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: do that?

568
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 2: Well? He knew I'd left home and was making money

569
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 2: for many years before he died, and he knew I'd

570
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: made a lot of money, so I didn't need it.

571
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: Of course neither did Charlie. And he owed it all

572
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: to Charlie. I mean it was Charlie's money. Charlie was

573
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: the breadwinner.

574
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: Charlie, of course couldn't actually accept the funds. In fact,

575
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: the money was designated to be used to fund Ventriloquist

576
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: performances for children in orphanages and quote other such similar

577
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: institutes for destitute and handicapped children. Charlie McCarthy relocated from

578
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills to a new home in Washington, d C.

579
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: At the Smithsonian Institute. Candice and her family flew to

580
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: DC to preview the exhibit.

581
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: We were thrilled that we had him out and taken

582
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: care of, and because it was like, what do we

583
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: do with him now? As Charlie without my father was

584
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: like a thing.

585
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: Candicesbergn remembers staring at Charlie on display, waiting for a

586
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: look of recognition or a wise crack, but it never came.

587
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: Without her father, there was no magic, the illusion was gone.

588
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 5: Well, when we started way back in those days, you

589
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 5: might say we were practically nobody. Yes, that's right. Why

590
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 5: we've come a long way, haven't I?

591
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope you enjoyed this mobituary. May I ask

592
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: you to please rate and review our podcast. You can

593
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: also follow Mobituaries on Facebook and Instagram, and you can

594
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: follow me on the social media platform formerly known as

595
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Speaker 1: Twitter at morocca. Hear all new episodes of Mobituaries every

596
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Speaker 1: Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts, and check out Mobituaries

597
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Speaker 1: Great Lives Worth Reliving, the New York Times best selling book,

598
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Speaker 1: available in paperback and audiobook. This episode of Mobituaries was

599
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: produced by Aaron Schrank. Our team of producers also includes

600
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: Hazelbrian and me Moroka, with engineering by Josh Han. Our

601
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: theme music is written by Daniel Hart. Our archival producer

602
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: is Jamie Benson. Mobituary's production company is Neon Hummmedia. Indispensable

603
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: support from Alan pang, Amy Cronenberg and everyone at CBS

604
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: News Radio. Special thanks to Steve Razis, Rand Morrison and

605
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: Alberto Robina. Executive producers for Mobituaries include Megan Marcus, Jonathan Hirsch,

606
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Speaker 1: and Moroka. The series is created by Yours Truly

607
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: The ha