1
00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,519
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Laverne Cox Show, a production of Shondaland

2
00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:09,400
Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.

3
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 2: Whether it's forms targeting trans people online or governor's targeting

4
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,439
Speaker 2: trans people in an entire state, fear is how they

5
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,760
Speaker 2: achieve it. They isolate the community from everyone else. They

6
00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 2: deprive us of allies by striking fear, and allies to

7
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:33,920
Speaker 2: speak up because they raise the costs right.

8
00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,959
Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. I'm

9
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:44,720
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. So I'm recording this on June twenty seventh,

10
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,920
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, and this year, over five hundred pieces

11
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,959
Speaker 1: of anti LGBTQ plus legislation has been introduced in state

12
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 1: legislatures all over the country. And part of the way

13
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 1: I've tried to stay informed and up to date is

14
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,399
Speaker 1: by following an amazing person named Alejandra Kerobio. Recently, I've

15
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 1: heard her speak in a few different forms and find

16
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 1: that the way that she talks about these issues, the

17
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: urgency that she brings to it, as well as a

18
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,679
Speaker 1: depth of knowledge, made me want to do a follow

19
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,080
Speaker 1: up to the conversation I had with Peppermint and Chase

20
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: earlier in the season. Alejandra Carabio is a civil rights attorney,

21
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 1: clinical instructor at the Harvard Law School Cyberclinic and a

22
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:35,320
Speaker 1: transgender rights advocate. Alejudra previously litigated trans healthcare cases at

23
00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,319
Speaker 1: the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund and provided immigration

24
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: assistance to LGBTQ plus New Yorkers at the New York

25
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 1: Legal Assistance Group. Last year, she testified and from the

26
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: US House Committee on Oversight and Reform to discuss the

27
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 1: pressing issues of rising wide supremacy and hate toward the

28
00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus population and the role social media continues to

29
00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,200
Speaker 1: play in making it worse. Alejandra previously served as the

30
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 1: secretary of the LGBTQ plus Rights Committee of the New

31
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 1: York City Bar Association and was appointed the first openly

32
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,079
Speaker 1: trans community board member in Brooklyn. Please enjoy my conversation

33
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:23,400
Speaker 1: with Alejandra Carabayo. Hello, Alejandra, Welcome to the podcast. How

34
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,279
Speaker 1: are you feeling today, Hey.

35
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I'm doing well. I just got

36
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 2: back from spending a weekend in Fire Island and getting

37
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,160
Speaker 2: engaged to my now fiance.

38
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god, congratulations. So when you went to Fire Island,

39
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 1: was that the plan that you were going to get

40
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 1: engaged or was it like someone tell me, oh.

41
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely the plan. Actually, I was going

42
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 2: to surprise her, and she foiled my plans last week

43
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,360
Speaker 2: because I can't keep anything from her. She like I

44
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 2: went to the jewelry store to go like putting the

45
00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,040
Speaker 2: order for the ring and like all this stuff, and

46
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 2: literally that same day she's like, where were you today?

47
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:10,399
Speaker 1: Amazing? So you did the proposal? Congratulations, So you are.

48
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,799
Speaker 1: This is beautiful. So you're presumably in love. How long

49
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,240
Speaker 1: have you been with your partner, with your now fiance.

50
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, just about a year actually, so we were official

51
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 2: starting in June of last year when we were That's

52
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 2: the reason why I was Fire Island in particular, because

53
00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 2: we got together officially at Fire Island.

54
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,400
Speaker 1: Amazing. I've only been a Fire Island twice actually once

55
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 1: I like the gay part, and then once like there's

56
00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 1: like a less gay part of Fire Island.

57
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 2: I had this like beautiful moment with Wanda Sykes. Actually

58
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 2: I just randomly ran into her, like I was just

59
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,680
Speaker 2: eating dinner and I was coming down from Cherry Lane

60
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 2: and she was there, and I was like, I'm horrible

61
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 2: at facial recognition. I am like borderline face bline and

62
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 2: I was like, I that looks I want to sykes.

63
00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 2: And I heard her voice and I was like, that's

64
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 2: why the sikes. And I just was like, I just

65
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 2: wanted to thank her for what she said about transfolks

66
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 2: and her special and defending transfolks on her press tour,

67
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,920
Speaker 2: like promoting her special. And then she was just because

68
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 2: she was dancing there with her partner, and then she

69
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 2: just started dancing with me and I was like, Okay,

70
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,440
Speaker 2: I guess I'm going to start dancing. And then she's like,

71
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,120
Speaker 2: do you want to hug? And I was like I

72
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,680
Speaker 2: would love one, and she just gave me this like

73
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,360
Speaker 2: really warm, like embracing hug. And she's a true mention

74
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,839
Speaker 2: and just absolutely wonderful person. So sorry, I just I

75
00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,600
Speaker 2: know I do rerail the conversation with.

76
00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,239
Speaker 1: That, but no, it's actually not a derail at all,

77
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, I had a conversation on

78
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,559
Speaker 1: this podcast with Chase Standio and my friend Peppermint several

79
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 1: months ago, and we were sort of talking about the

80
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 1: state of trans bills and whatnot. And I had done

81
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,719
Speaker 1: a podcast with Chase in the first season at this show,

82
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,159
Speaker 1: sort of talking about like right wing propaganda misinformation, and

83
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 1: we were playing clips and I left that conversation traumatized.

84
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,919
Speaker 1: I literally cried for thirty minutes after that conversation. I

85
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 1: was like, I cannot have these conversations in ways that

86
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,120
Speaker 1: re traumatize my And I realized last week that I

87
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,480
Speaker 1: just finished a show. I was shooting a show in Georgia,

88
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,120
Speaker 1: and I was just sort of like pushing down the

89
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,800
Speaker 1: feelings of devastation and like now I'm just deal, Okay,

90
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 1: yeah this is devastating, and I'm just trying to tell

91
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 1: the truth to myself about it so I can like, actually,

92
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,359
Speaker 1: you know, I'm all about both, and but I like

93
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 1: sometimes I add it. I don't both, and so I

94
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,160
Speaker 1: don't deal with the thing that likes challenging and like

95
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 1: I push it down and so like, yeah, I'm devastated,

96
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 1: and I'm just I don't want to be re traumatized.

97
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,520
Speaker 1: Because you're trans too, so you may you can probably

98
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 1: relate to this that like there is the sense of

99
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,600
Speaker 1: like for me, just like put my safety and public

100
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,840
Speaker 1: as a trans woman of color. It's just been it's

101
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,480
Speaker 1: been like a thing my whole life of not feeling safe.

102
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 1: And then like the state sanctioned violence, and so it's

103
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,600
Speaker 1: just like adds another layer of trauma when the state is,

104
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 1: you know, banning gender firming care for my community. And

105
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I will personally be effective. But

106
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,719
Speaker 1: it's not even about me. It's about justice. It's about

107
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,039
Speaker 1: I loved and I love trans people. I love us.

108
00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,359
Speaker 1: I think we're amazing. So starting the podcast with talking

109
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,280
Speaker 1: about view being in love, like that you were in

110
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 1: the depths of like tracking anti trans bills and you,

111
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,919
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a huge part of your life,

112
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 1: but in the face of that, you can get engaged

113
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 1: that there's love in your life. That you met Wanda

114
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,760
Speaker 1: Sykes and danced with her and got a hug from

115
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 1: her at Fire Island is like the end of the

116
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,280
Speaker 1: both and that being in spaces of community. I was

117
00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 1: a stone all day here in New York and just

118
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: got my life like I hadn't been. I love being

119
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,640
Speaker 1: around trans people and we were just having a kiki

120
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 1: backstage and like fully aware of the devastation of what's

121
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 1: going on, but like finding ways to have joy and

122
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,280
Speaker 1: to laugh about it. It's like so important. So I

123
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 1: think that like so much of what's going on is

124
00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,920
Speaker 1: so dehumanizing and you and love you like you know,

125
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 1: being starstruck your humanity, Like you getting to have all

126
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 1: of that while you do this other work is like

127
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 1: I think, really important. So I don't think it's off

128
00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:13,200
Speaker 1: subject at all.

129
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,120
Speaker 2: It's absolutely so important to continue to have joy. It's

130
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 2: one of the things that I always like hold true

131
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 2: to myself is that it's the one thing they can't

132
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 2: take for me, as much as they try, right, Like

133
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 2: they can pass these laws, they can, you know, do

134
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 2: all the hateful things that they do, but we still

135
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 2: have our community, and we still have each other. And

136
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 2: if we don't recognize what we still have and find

137
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 2: joy in that and our friends, our family, our loved ones,

138
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,200
Speaker 2: or our community, then that's when they really win. And

139
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 2: so we still have to be able to find our

140
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 2: moments of joy despite how hopeless the situation sometimes feels

141
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 2: and how dark it is, because like that's what makes

142
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 2: it worth living and fighting, because that's what you know,

143
00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,680
Speaker 2: it's what we're fighting to make sure everyone can have.

144
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: And these laws and I mean, there's a lot of

145
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: things going on, I mean, but they're happening in part

146
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 1: as a backlash to the progress that we have made

147
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: that we were more visible now than we've ever been,

148
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: and this is the backlash to that. So that's part

149
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: of the context of this. So with all of that

150
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,720
Speaker 1: having been said, let's get into the state of things.

151
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,400
Speaker 1: Where are we with anti trans legislation that's been introduced

152
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: and then what's been passed.

153
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's well over five hundred bills. I think

154
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 2: our trucker which it just towards the end, we kind

155
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 2: of were just so inundated tracking so many bills because

156
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,640
Speaker 2: it's just every day was a legislative hearing and it

157
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,280
Speaker 2: was just something new and so much going on. But

158
00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 2: we have at least five hundred and thirty two bills

159
00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,719
Speaker 2: about sixty eight that we've tracked as enacted, which is

160
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 2: a lot higher than.

161
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 1: Ever passed into law.

162
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 2: Yes, this is everything from don't Say Gay bills to

163
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:58,400
Speaker 2: gender firming care bands, drag bans, drag bands, and we

164
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,719
Speaker 2: are that states now that a bangenner for being care

165
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 2: for minors. Well, I know, it's tough because it's changing

166
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,599
Speaker 2: every single day. There's so much to keep track of

167
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,960
Speaker 2: because now we're past the legislative cycle and we're into

168
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 2: litigation season. So this is when yes, all of these

169
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,960
Speaker 2: things are starting to get blocked in the courts, and

170
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 2: so I believe already Florida's was briefly limited, their medicaid

171
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 2: ban was limited. Obviously, Arkansas and Alabama are already enjoined,

172
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 2: and for those who don't know, and joined means that

173
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,600
Speaker 2: the court orders that something stopped being enforced. So basically

174
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 2: like it's highly likely within the next year to two

175
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,040
Speaker 2: years we see a serve Supreme Court petition go to

176
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court.

177
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:42,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that feels inevitable with the Yeah, it feels

178
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:49,280
Speaker 1: inevitable at this point. So wow, wow, Okay, So I

179
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 1: don't like to get too much in the market. That's

180
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: because ultimately I don't think the government should be involved

181
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,680
Speaker 1: in making decisions about people's bodies, like period, point blank.

182
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,160
Speaker 1: So none of this should be up for debate. Whether

183
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 1: their children are adult, this none of your business. That's

184
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,240
Speaker 1: my position. But with that being said, like what are

185
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 1: we basically looking at with these gender firming care bands?

186
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,200
Speaker 1: Is there an overview of like what tends to be

187
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,040
Speaker 1: banned just so folks can understand who might not know.

188
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's kind of different grades of how they

189
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,440
Speaker 2: did it in the States, they're pretty much all built

190
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 2: on the same template legislation that was pushed by far

191
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,720
Speaker 2: right groups called the Safe Act or Save Adolescence from

192
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,560
Speaker 2: Experimentation Act. There's a bit of a difference in how

193
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 2: they enforce these bands. Some of them criminalize it, make

194
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 2: it a felony, such as Alabama. Others go through medical licensing,

195
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,080
Speaker 2: such as Florida to try and revoke licensing, although the

196
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 2: legislature that passed the ban after the medical Board did

197
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 2: include criminal penalties, including a felony for gender firming care.

198
00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 2: And so runs the gamut and how they're done, but

199
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 2: the vast majority just outright crize this care. And others

200
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 2: such as Arkansas, they had done an outright band. They

201
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 2: were the first state to do so two years ago,

202
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,280
Speaker 2: and it had been in joint since that time. So

203
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,640
Speaker 2: now what they're doing is they're trying to follow this

204
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:21,079
Speaker 2: SBA Texas bounty hunter style bill where it's not necessarily

205
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,439
Speaker 2: a bounty per se. But what it allows is to

206
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 2: increase legal liability so people can be open to civil

207
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,880
Speaker 2: suit in this case medical malpractice, and the liability is

208
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,199
Speaker 2: basically completely open ended. It extends the liability for decades,

209
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,199
Speaker 2: and it builds in basically a medical framework around malpractice

210
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 2: in a way that the legislature is directly engaged in

211
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 2: the practice of medicine. And I'm concerned about Arkansas because

212
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 2: they passed this law basically to try and circumvent the

213
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,680
Speaker 2: injunction on the band that had been in place for

214
00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 2: the last two years. And that's increasingly a tactic that

215
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,319
Speaker 2: we're seeing. They're increasing malpractice to be from one or

216
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,440
Speaker 2: two years to thirty years and essentially trying to regulate

217
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 2: the profession. And so we're seeing essentially the same kinds

218
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,840
Speaker 2: of things that they did to abortion care a decade ago,

219
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 2: the trap style laws, the target regulation of abortion providers.

220
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 2: They're doing the same thing. If they can't get these

221
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 2: big bands through that criminalize the care, well they're going

222
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,280
Speaker 2: to do it a death by a thousand cuts to

223
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,959
Speaker 2: make it essentially impossible to access care.

224
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, for Florida is a nurse practitioner ban.

225
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 1: It's a really good example of that, right, So, like

226
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,280
Speaker 1: nurse practitioners think that's been enjoyed too at this point.

227
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,200
Speaker 2: But it still applies to nurse practitioners are still criminalized

228
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,319
Speaker 2: if they practice gender from acre in the state of Florida,

229
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 2: and the injunction that they got. Yeah, the injunction they

230
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,680
Speaker 2: got was extremely limited and only applies to the plaintiffs,

231
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 2: So that was a very mixed bag decision.

232
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 1: Confused.

233
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's difficult, and right now the orgs are overwhelmed.

234
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 2: They flooded the zone with so many bills that there

235
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 2: isn't as much capacity now to challenge all these bills

236
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,679
Speaker 2: in the way that they would have been a year

237
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 2: or two years ago.

238
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,720
Speaker 1: Okay, there's so much minu shit, and I thought, like

239
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,360
Speaker 1: I was informed, somewhat informed on this. That's part of

240
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:16,560
Speaker 1: the reason I want to talk to you, because I

241
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 1: know there's so much nuance of these things that it's

242
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,720
Speaker 1: just almost impossible if you're not a lawyer. And then

243
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,719
Speaker 1: I think the biggest piece that I wanted to focus on,

244
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,040
Speaker 1: even beyond the legislation, is the impact. It feels like

245
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 1: kind of so much of the way in which this

246
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 1: conversation has happened, and I think it's so important to

247
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,679
Speaker 1: like just stay over and over again. How can sin

248
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,440
Speaker 1: has been manufactured by right wing media, by social media,

249
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,319
Speaker 1: by mainstream corporate media, that this center left to you know,

250
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 1: dehumanize us and then pass these bills. So the humanizing

251
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: trans people and how we have discussions about this I

252
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 1: think are critically important, But in a way, we're like

253
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 1: even beyond that because the laws are so we're so

254
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: in this minutia of like so many detailed, like back

255
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 1: door ways of basically banning care and then putting the

256
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,959
Speaker 1: fear of God into medical care providers, right, And we're

257
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 1: seeing this happen with abortion too, where it's like, well,

258
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 1: if there's rape and you know incest exceptions, how do

259
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,000
Speaker 1: you prove that? And like if the life of the

260
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,600
Speaker 1: pregnant person is in danger, at what point is their

261
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 1: life in danger? And like we can't perform the abortion

262
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 1: until you're bleeding out, until you're like really on the verd.

263
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,560
Speaker 1: So it it's like the healthcare professionals get like so

264
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,120
Speaker 1: weary and like the and so they just they were

265
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 1: like I can't do I can't risk malpractice, I can't

266
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 1: risk losing my license, I can't risk going to jail.

267
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: And so people are just cut off from care and

268
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: we're seeing people flee states. I was just in Georgia

269
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 1: shooting a show and some of my coworkers met a

270
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 1: couple who had just moved from Florida to Savannah because

271
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,480
Speaker 1: of everything that's happening in Florida, and they were you know,

272
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 1: the bathroom ban did, they were just like this, it's

273
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 1: really scary to be trans in Florida. And the Campaign

274
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 1: for Southern Equality, who I became aware of, they're helping,

275
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, provide grants to people to flee states and

276
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 1: even flee the country some organizations are working on. So

277
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,160
Speaker 1: there's like the impact. I know, I'm all over the place,

278
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 1: but the impact of these laws on like the ability

279
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 1: for people to access care who may be you know,

280
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:25,800
Speaker 1: just living in fear.

281
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm originally from Florida, born and raised there

282
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 2: and went to college there, and my family also lives

283
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 2: in Florida, so you know, I have close connections there,

284
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 2: and I've been working with a lot of activists on

285
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,280
Speaker 2: the ground there helping to amplify and boost messaging and

286
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 2: try to really hone in because it's very personal to

287
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 2: me what's going on in Florida, and it's just it's terrifying.

288
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 2: It's something that I've struggled with on how, you know,

289
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 2: being a visible person, like how to talk about this,

290
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 2: how to get the attention from like our sis allies

291
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 2: and out of convey the depths of how bad this

292
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 2: is without trying to essentially traumatize our community further and

293
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,160
Speaker 2: cause them to spiral into panic, which at this point

294
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 2: it is a five alarm fire, right, So it's really

295
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: difficult to strike that balance. And oftentimes I have folks

296
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 2: in the movement they are like, you're being too alarmist,

297
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 2: and I was, you know, I pulled tweets from March

298
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 2: when the bill was first introduced SB two fifty four

299
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,800
Speaker 2: in Florida that was going to severely limit gender firming

300
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 2: care for adults, and I was saying from day one,

301
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,480
Speaker 2: this would be significantly disruptive for the vast majority of

302
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 2: care is provided by nurse practitioners. The way that this

303
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 2: would work in practice would severely eliminate access to care

304
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 2: to make it effectively impossible. And now the informed consent

305
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 2: proposals through the Medical Board would effectively make gender firming

306
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: care impossible to obtain.

307
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the informed consent proposal? I'm actually

308
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 1: not familiar with that. That. Yeah, there's so many elements

309
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:00,040
Speaker 1: of the.

310
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,480
Speaker 2: That's yes, death by the administrative state, and that's WHYSANTI

311
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,199
Speaker 2: is particularly terrifying in that aspect because they know how

312
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 2: to kind of push these things behind the scenes, but

313
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,400
Speaker 2: especially the form consent is being pushed by the medical words.

314
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 2: So now the nurse practitioners and physicians as assistants cannot

315
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,920
Speaker 2: prescribe gender firming care. It's only relegated to doctors, which

316
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,440
Speaker 2: is governed by the Board of Medicine, which is appointed

317
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,800
Speaker 2: by DeSantis, and he's stocked it full of political hacks

318
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,919
Speaker 2: and people who've donated to his campaign and people who

319
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,960
Speaker 2: are ideologically opposed to the existence of trans people, and

320
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 2: so they're now dictating the standards, right, and so they're

321
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 2: trying to put it in this informed consent process. And

322
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 2: now this informed consent process would require a suicide assessment

323
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 2: every three months, whether or not that's medically necessary or not.

324
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 2: Requires mandatory psychiatric or therapy care, bone density scans once

325
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,119
Speaker 2: a year, at least a full assessment, I think believe

326
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 2: once every six months. You have to get blood work

327
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 2: every three months. I like talied it all up. So

328
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,159
Speaker 2: I was like, if you're doing weekly therapy or doing

329
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 2: these bone scans, you're doing the like all of this.

330
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 2: It's like sixty something bus appointments and something like a

331
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 2: bone scan or blood work, like that's not you don't.

332
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 2: Just like that's not a quick five minute thing, and

333
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 2: you can't do that via telemedicine, and not telemedicine is

334
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,159
Speaker 2: essentially kind of limited as well, so you have to

335
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 2: go in person.

336
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 1: I've been on estrogen for twenty for twenty five years. Yeah,

337
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 1: and like I'm like, I'm vigilant about my blood work.

338
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 1: I've been very you know, I've been a good little

339
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,600
Speaker 1: trans patient or whatever boned inc. Yeah, just like what

340
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 1: are they doing?

341
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 2: That's what they turn the misinformation around, like trans youth

342
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: and you know, courtesy partially of the New York Times,

343
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 2: like pushing these kind of h disinformation around bone density

344
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 2: and puberty blockers now apply to adults that this is

345
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 2: not an issue, and like this is why I say

346
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,119
Speaker 2: this is like kind of an underhanded way because like, oh,

347
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 2: well bone densities as well, I guess I'll get that. Well,

348
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 2: unless it's medically necessary, your insurance is not going to

349
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 2: cover it. And so you go in through abundancy scan.

350
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,359
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, the DEXA scan is going to cost

351
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 2: like two thousand dollars.

352
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 1: That was another thing. I'm like, oh, they don't. There's

353
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 1: not an expansion of medicaid in Florida in most states,

354
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 1: like we don't have universal health care.

355
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, is like.

356
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 1: And I think that's also the issue too. It's like

357
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: the barrier to like people acting like it's so easy

358
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: to get to ender firming care when we don't have

359
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 1: like national health care in this country exactly.

360
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,480
Speaker 2: And they're trying to roll back the standards basically to

361
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,439
Speaker 2: what it was in the eighties and nineties where it

362
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 2: was like basically impossible you have to years and years

363
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 2: of therapy that was heavily gate capt and you know,

364
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 2: permitless carry in Florida is about to be enacted within

365
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 2: the next week and so that goes into effect. So

366
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 2: you can just walk in with no training, no permit,

367
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 2: no nothing, just get a gun, handgun and carry it

368
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 2: concealed all around the state wherever you want, no mental

369
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 2: health assessment, nothing, But if you want to get hormones,

370
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 2: you've got to go through this like intensive stuff process.

371
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what is going on here? Right?

372
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: But it's going on. I think the message to our

373
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: allies is that again, I mean, and I've said this before,

374
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 1: but I think it's important to say again. A lot

375
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: of folks are like, well, when it comes to children

376
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: in gender from a care that's up for debate. No, no,

377
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 1: it's not something that should be debated. At the end

378
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,719
Speaker 1: of the day, the objective of all the legislators, of

379
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: all the organizations who have introduced this legislation is to

380
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 1: erase and to eliminate trans people from As Michael Knowles said,

381
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 1: we want to eliminate transgenderism from public life. If you

382
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: said transgenderism, but he meant trans people, like, that's what

383
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: effectively is going on here. They don't want us to exist,

384
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,160
Speaker 1: and that sounds extremist, alarmist. Using words like genocide seems

385
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 1: people want to say it's hyperbolic, but it's just there's

386
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: too much evidence. Yeah, oh honey, how's that for a

387
00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: little truth. We'll be right back. All right, We're back then.

388
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 1: I think beyond the medical piece, coupled with drag bands,

389
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: it's like for our non binary siblings, for our drag

390
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: siblings who don't necessarily need any kind of gender firming care,

391
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: you can't even put on a wig or you know,

392
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: bind or whatever it is. You know somebody needs to do.

393
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: So the combination of all these laws is about erasing

394
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 1: trans and gender non conforming people from existence. That is

395
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: the goal.

396
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. And you know, you really

397
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 2: get into specifics, right going back to Florida and why

398
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 2: people are fleeing, like you just you mentioned this family

399
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: that left and moved to Savannah for the reason why. Right,

400
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 2: So now they're banning gender firming care coverage for state

401
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: employees entirely, but not just state employees, any governmental entities,

402
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: so like county employees, so that includes your teachers, includes

403
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 2: your firefighters, your release officers, all of that. Right, So

404
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: that's all public employees throughout the state. You know their

405
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 2: coverage is going to be banned. So now you have

406
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 2: the bathroom ban that would make it potentially a crime

407
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 2: for trans people use the bathroom. Can any state owned facility

408
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 2: or government owned facility, which that includes airports, convention centers,

409
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 2: state parks, stadiums, So it's incredibly broad. And then you

410
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: have that don't say Gay laws, which basically force LGBTQ

411
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 2: people out of teaching entirely, and race our existence now

412
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 2: up through twelfth grade. Before us oh it's just through

413
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 2: third grade, but now it's through twelfth it's that it's

414
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 2: not about protecting kids. That was the pretext, and so

415
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 2: when you look at it is totality. What you see

416
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: is all of this legislation is effectively designed to eradicate

417
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: trans people from public life. It is to drive us

418
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: out of the state. And they are cheering because Rondas

419
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: Santus's press person literally was cheering at the fact that

420
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 2: LGBTQ people were fleeing the state. That's what they want.

421
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 2: And then the ones that stay behind to be quiet,

422
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 2: to go back in the closet, to not stick your

423
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 2: head out, and to basically, you know, exist in the shadows.

424
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 2: And that's what they're trying to do. And they're trying

425
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: to do this through legislation, and.

426
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: They are succeeding so far. So far, they are succeeding.

427
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: Can you just tell, I mean, I just find the

428
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: bathroom ban in Florida particularly egregious. Can you just girl,

429
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: can you just tell the folks who might not be

430
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: aware of the specificity of the bathroom ban in Florida. Yeah, honey, this.

431
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: One is like, it is the most convoluted one. It's

432
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: partially to avoid legal liability, to make lawsuits difficult, so

433
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 2: at the last minute, originally was supposed apply to private entities,

434
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: but now it applies only to stay owned or government owned,

435
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: which is very broad, which means obviously like stadiums and

436
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: airports that are usually owned by these like authorities that

437
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: are pushed out by the local governments by the cities.

438
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 2: But it also applies to all post secondary education and schools,

439
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: so all public schools obviously, but it also plaies to universities.

440
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: And what it does is it also empowers like Even

441
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: before they pass the drag ban in Florida, Governor DeSantis

442
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 2: was using the Department Professional Regulation to target venues that

443
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: hosted drag by stripping them of their liquor licenses. What

444
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: this does is the same thing on steroids. While there

445
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: is a provision to make it a misdemeanor crime for

446
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: a transperson us a bathroom and not leave when someone

447
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: asked them to, that's when the crime is committed. Is

448
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 2: so basically as a passing.

449
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: Test, a this person assist I understanding as this person

450
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: if they see a transperson or someone they think is

451
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: trans right, because they because this happens too, they think

452
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: somebody's trans and they really aren't, they have the right

453
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: to ask the transperson to leave the bathroom. If the

454
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: transperson does not leave, they can be arrest and go

455
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: to jail for a year. This is my understanding of

456
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: the law is that.

457
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: It's a misdemeanor, yes, but it's also limited to specific

458
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: state employees, so it's like very convoluted on who can

459
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 2: ask the person to leave, but then the state employees

460
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 2: themselves aren't subject to these restrictions to use the bathroom.

461
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: It is the most ridiculous law. I don't think it's

462
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: meant to stand. But the other aspect of it is

463
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: that it empowers the Department of Business Regulations and the

464
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: Attorney General to enforce this, and what they can do

465
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: is basically do this by fear. And this is what

466
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 2: I was more worried about when it was addition, when

467
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: it was the private portion, before they stripped that out

468
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,959
Speaker 2: and realized that when it applied to Disney and all

469
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: these other places that they were going to have a

470
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: huge problem. But what they're trying to do is weaponize

471
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 2: business regulations and not those provisions are still in there.

472
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: So what they can still do is say, hey, Raymond

473
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: jay and Stadium in Tampa where you know the Bucks play,

474
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: and you know we're Beyonce plays when she comes to town.

475
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: You know they'll be like, hey, we can strip you

476
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: of your liquor license if you don't comply with this

477
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: bathroom band and they can threaten that. And the other

478
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: way that they do is is what I call troll legislation.

479
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: So what they do is it's the same thing with

480
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: don't say any.

481
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that troll legislation. That it's

482
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: so aptly name girl that is genius. That they're trolling

483
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: us in the legislature is yes, So it's not even

484
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: just trolling us, but trolling everybody.

485
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: They're telling everybody. Because so last year the perfect example

486
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: of this, I think, don't say gay I think was

487
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: the perfect example of the troll legislation, right because whenever

488
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 2: they got hammered on it, the first thing they would say,

489
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 2: tell me where it says gay in the legislation, right,

490
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 2: And then it's like it says sexual orientation, what do

491
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: you think, Like, you know, we know what you mean

492
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 2: when you apply sexual orientation and say discussions of sexual

493
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: we know what you mean. Right. And so they write

494
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: these things vaguely and they know who they're going to target. Right.

495
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: It's the same maxim that's always been used. There are

496
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: in groups for whom the law protects but does not bind.

497
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: There are out groups for whom the law binds but

498
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: does not protect. That's exactly it, right, so we know

499
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: when it's Can you.

500
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: Say that again? I've never heard that before? Is that

501
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: like a professor thing?

502
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: I believe I remember exactly who said it, but I

503
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: think it might have been Francis Wilhoy or Frank Wilhoy.

504
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: That is beautiful, that's beautifully put. Can you say that

505
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: one more time?

506
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 2: So there are in groups for whom the law protects

507
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: but does not find, and there are outgroups for whom

508
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: the law binds but does not protect. And I think

509
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: that is the perfect encapsulation. So if you view that

510
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 2: through the lens of straight people versus queer people in schools, well,

511
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: straight person's not going to be questioned about talking about

512
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: sexual orientation if a woman mentions her husband. But if

513
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: a woman mentions her wife, oh, well, now you get

514
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 2: in discussions of sexual orientation, and that's you know, potentially

515
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: an instruction and sexual orientation, and now you could be

516
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: liable to lose your teacher's license and all that things.

517
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: So that's what I mean. The outgroup there is being

518
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 2: binded to the law, but they're not being protected by it,

519
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: and the in group is being protected by the law

520
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 2: but not being bound to it. And so that's exactly

521
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: the issue that we have.

522
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: Also goes for like rich people versus everybody else exactly,

523
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: exact additions versus everybody else exactly.

524
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: And so to go back to the original part of

525
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: mutrol legislation is that they do this thing. They use

526
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: very vague terms, very vague provisions, and then they hone

527
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: in and say tell me where it says that they

528
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: did this with the drag bill, right, they were like, well,

529
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: tell me where it says drag. And then at the

530
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: signing event where Governor of Rond de Santis signed this

531
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: at a very right wing Christian school in Tampa, you know,

532
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: he explicitly put out a pamphlet about how this was

533
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: targeted towards drag. So they try to do this and

534
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why it's effective for them is

535
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: because when I've been on the phone with journalists trying

536
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: to explain these bills, local journalists, national journalists, and I'm

537
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: trying to explain it to them, They're like, well, it

538
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: doesn't say that, and this is you know, kind of vague. Here,

539
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how it's going to be applied, and

540
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, listen, it's going to be applied in this way.

541
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: This is exactly how's going to happen. People were saying,

542
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: we were exaggerating the harms last year around dun Say Gay,

543
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: that it was going to require teachers to put away,

544
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 2: you know, pictures of their partners, that it was going

545
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: to like forcefully closet all the LGBTT people that are

546
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 2: teachers or work in schools, and they were like, well,

547
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: it doesn't really say that as his classroom instruction, it doesn't,

548
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: you know. And then lo and behold, we get all

549
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: the horror stories about what's being stricken and what people

550
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: are being told to do. They're literally ripping off safe

551
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: space signs that have the Pride flag. So you know,

552
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: it played out exactly how we said it would, and

553
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: so it's incredibly frustrating when the same journalists come back

554
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: six months or a year later and they're like, wow,

555
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: we didn't really think it was going to be used

556
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: like this, you know. And so the bill's already been

557
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: in an effect per year and the interest has died down,

558
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: and so that's what we're seeing these incredibly vague laws

559
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: that they know that they're going to weaponize the state

560
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: to enforce.

561
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: So it's so complicated too, because there's so much minutia.

562
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: Right on the average transperson, I'd like to think I'm

563
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of informed and ultimately like the information that gets

564
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: to people, it just is like, I'm scared. I can't

565
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: do this. Why are we being targeted so much and

566
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: so intensely? And what becomes the impact? And you don't

567
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: really know the impact till it happens. But then it's

568
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: like for us as a community, we aren't even fully

569
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: clear on exactly what the law is because things are

570
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: written so vaguely and so broadly, and it just instills

571
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: fear and terror and what am I gonna do? And

572
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: I need to flee or I need to hide, or

573
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: I need to be cause how in the world can

574
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: we all know the specificity? You know what I mean?

575
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: It's like, that's partly why I want to have you on,

576
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: to get into the specificity. But even as we talk

577
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: about it, it's so convoluted. It's so we're just talking

578
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: a couple of states. There's like twenty states. They have

579
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: these gender firming care bands, sports bands, like that's a

580
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: whole other. I mean then drag band. So we're even

581
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: just talking about a small portion of what's going on

582
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: right now. So much of it is designed to fearmonger,

583
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: not only like non LGBTQ plus people, but to put

584
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: us in a state of fear.

585
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean that not just us, even allies.

586
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: And so you know, I think that there's kind.

587
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: Of the doctors that the providers, therapists. I mean, I

588
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: think that's for me, that's the piece with Arkansas and

589
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: most of the states is like to refer therapy is

590
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: gender firming care and you can't even do that.

591
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And that's what really I think is at

592
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: the heart of this. I know there's like everyone's always

593
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: kind of said, the cruelty is the point. I'm like, yes,

594
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: cruelty is the point, but fear is the means. And

595
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: so they really weaponize fear to target the community. And

596
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, and I know everyone

597
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: has their very strong opinions as so, and from the left,

598
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: I understand the issues with rainbow and pink washing and

599
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: like corporate capitalism of pride and co opting all that,

600
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: totally sympathetic, but I think that even if it is

601
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: like in a kind of self interested way to provide

602
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: a more profit and kind of monetize our community. At

603
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: the same time, they also do provide a bit of

604
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: a backstop towards some of these bills. A lot of

605
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: the biggest groups that are working behind the scenes to

606
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: stop some of these bills in previous years had been

607
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: business groups saying, don't pass these bills. It's going to

608
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: hurt business, it's anti business. And what DeSantis did with

609
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: Disney last year, it's a warning shot. If DeSantis can

610
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: go after the biggest employer and biggest company in the

611
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: entire state of Florida that owns basically all of central

612
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: Florida and basically target them in this way, what do

613
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: you think the smaller businesses in Florida are going to do?

614
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: They're going to just stay quiet, pipe down. And that

615
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: laid the groundwork for the most radical, far right extremist

616
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: legislator cycle in Florida in history, because the business groups

617
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: that would ordinarily oppose this legislation just didn't say anything

618
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: because they were worried that they would lose tax breaks,

619
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: they'd be targeted by the governor directly, and that state

620
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: of fear, like that's an element of fascism. But that's

621
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: what they do. Like whether it's forums targeting trans people

622
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: online or governor's targeting trans people in an entire state.

623
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: Fear is how they achieve it. They isolate the community

624
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: from everyone else. They deprive us of allies. They raise

625
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: the cost right, so allies that are working in the

626
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: school systems or universities now they're stripping ten year at universities.

627
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: Also afraid too, because I don't like to restate these

628
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: propagandistic talking points, but the propaganda in the right wing

629
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: media ecosystem that like immediately anything LGBTQ plus equals grooming

630
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: equals pedophilia. What happened with Target, I think, is a

631
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: really good example of a company that's been in allyship,

632
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: at least in their corporate pinkwash, you know, in the

633
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: ways in which corporations do ELI ship. And I've done these,

634
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: I've done these corporate partnerships, and I actually do think

635
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: it's good. We know what it is. But I remember

636
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen it was the fiftieth anniversary of Stonewall,

637
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: and I was walking around Manhattan seeing queer and trans

638
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: people in every store window and it was beautiful. I know,

639
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: I understand the profit motive. It was utterly and completely beautiful.

640
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: But because they've been able to capture the narrative, so

641
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: much of this has been about how they've been able

642
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: to successfully in the media to humanize trans people, equate

643
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: us to these things that I don't like to say

644
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: and repeat. That's been a huge part of the narrative too. Right,

645
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: So corporations are not only being attacked in ways in

646
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: which they do their businesses. We're going to revoke your

647
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: liquor license, blah blah blah, it's the public narrative and

648
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: perception of how they're being painted as well. So it's

649
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: like that conversation needs to just really be interrupted. So

650
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: it's like the fight needs to be happening on so

651
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: many different levels.

652
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 2: Right.

653
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: What amazes me when I think about like Alliance Defending

654
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: Freedom and I just know it's not just them, but

655
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: they're at the heart of so much of this. They

656
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: craft the legislation and give to state legislatures. Right, they

657
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: bring these cases to the Supreme Court. They're not just

658
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: doing it in the United States, but they're doing it globally,

659
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: and they're well funded, well organized, and relentless, and they're

660
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: working not just against LGBTQ rights, they're working against like

661
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: reproductive rights. So it becomes like, like where is the funding,

662
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: where is the organization, where is the urgency quote unquote left?

663
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it is incredibly frustrating seeing this. You know,

664
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: how we are probably the best funded we've ever been

665
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: in terms of having nonprofits out there, But you know,

666
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: I'm very cynical and nonprofits as any kind of pathway

667
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: towards liberation, particularly because of the incentive structures they are

668
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: oftentimes infighting over ridiculous things and grant funding, and the

669
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: also the incentives around grants and donations oftentimes miss aligned

670
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 2: with actual movement priorities and what will actually do more

671
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: for the community. Like, we are the best funded that

672
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 2: we've ever been, but at the same time, I don't

673
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: think I've ever seen a greater mismatch in what the

674
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: funding is being spent on versus what is like on

675
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 2: I think like at this point, you know, i HRC

676
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: is probably my biggest like punching bag, because I think

677
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: they're kind of emblematic oftentimes of kind of the excess

678
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: of constantly doing what favors wealthier white gaze, you know,

679
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: focusing on marriage because we saw the full scale mobilization

680
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 2: last year with the codification of a Burger fell right,

681
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: like full court press, social media, messaging everywhere. They had

682
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: celebrities speaking out, they had all the senators here and there,

683
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 2: and I was like, wow, so that's what you're capable of.

684
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: And then three months later when all these bills are

685
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: introduced like nothing galas, like tons and tons of galas.

686
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: I gagged over that. I gagged over how. I'm like,

687
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: we were able to get past the filibuster in the

688
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: Senate for marriage equality. It was bipartisan, so I'm like, okay, like,

689
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: how did that happen. We can't get an equality Act,

690
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: we can't get reproductive bytes caught it by, we can't

691
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: get a pro act. I mean, there's so many things

692
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: we can't get. We can't get a minimum wage raise,

693
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: but we got marriage equality through. And this is when

694
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: it becomes problematic when people are like, well, gay folks,

695
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, they can get what they want, you know,

696
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: when like there's all these other bills that are like

697
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: trying to erase our existence.

698
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, girl, like what yeah, exactly, Yeah. I think it's

699
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: it's partially you know, the funding the institutional backing around it.

700
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: The people who are there right, like even Republicans have

701
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: like gay children, and in the Supreme Court kind of

702
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: had cided already one way on this years ago. So

703
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: I think it's it seemed like it was easier to

704
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: pass that way. But I think infrastructurally, all these orgs

705
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: had been set up for basically two decades to end

706
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: at marriage equality, and we saw orgs kind of pack up,

707
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: like uh, it was an Empire state pride agenda that

708
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: just like completely shuddered in New York after marriage equality,

709
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, that's it, and I was like,

710
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: what you know? And that was like after two decades

711
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: of telling trans people like, oh, don't worry, we'll get

712
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: to you once we get marriage equality. And then like

713
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: the funding you know, came down and I think, to

714
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,919
Speaker 2: be a little bit fair, HRC, like it's not just them, right,

715
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: And I think part of it is they didn't see

716
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: this backlash coming. And I when I was working at TILDEF,

717
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:55,959
Speaker 2: you know, I.

718
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: Till DEV is the transgendr Legal Defense and Education Fund

719
00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: for those Yeah, I don't know.

720
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: I had someone there who I worked with, you know,

721
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, I was like, look, this is

722
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: going to probably be one of the worst years for

723
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 2: anti trans and like I was, that's quaint now because

724
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 2: given how bad it's gotten since then. But I was like,

725
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 2: it's going to be one of the worst years in

726
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 2: trans legislation. And they're like, oh, isn't it bad every year?

727
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 2: And I was just like what, Like it just ignored

728
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: like what was happening. And I was monitoring a lot

729
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: of this stuff online and I was like, look, the

730
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: energy is building there, like this is going to break,

731
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: like we need to put the systems. And I think,

732
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 2: you know, it's partially the disruption from COVID. MCTE obviously

733
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 2: like had a bit of an implosion in twenty nineteen,

734
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: and so a lot of like the bigger orgs like

735
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 2: were really hampered. I think GLAD didn't really anticipate because

736
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: they didn't see this happening, and all of those things

737
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: kind of conspired together to kind of weaken the movement

738
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: in a way that we weren't anticipating. And I think also, again,

739
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: these are really big organizations that cannot turn on a dime.

740
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: They cannot just immediately pivot to new initiatives. And what

741
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 2: I've been trying to tell people, I'm like, this isn't

742
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen anymore. You can't just go run to write

743
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: ed in the New York Times and expect that to

744
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 2: change opinion. You have to meet people where they're at,

745
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: and they're online.

746
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: And the incentive structure online the internal data that Facebook

747
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: found themselves that online the air people. Facebook found that

748
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: when people are fighting each other and when they're conspiracy theories,

749
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: people stay longer on those sites. And so there is

750
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: an algorithmic profit incentive to have us at each other's

751
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: throats and to spread misinformation and propaganda. We should be

752
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: aware of that, just as consumers of social media and

753
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: how we are online. But then how do we infiltrate

754
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: How do we infiltrate online spaces? That really is the

755
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: work I mean, and I've done a lot of work

756
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: with GLAD over the years, But like media now is

757
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: social media, it's the Internet, and like yeah, yeah, okay,

758
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: it's that time again. We'll be right back, all right,

759
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: let's get back to it. So then, in terms of

760
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: solutions for me, it feels like there's the messaging piece,

761
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: there's the legislative piece, and the attacks tax there, and

762
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: then there's the impact on community and getting people resources

763
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: and getting people access. So there's like three different There's

764
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: probably more, but there are three big things around this

765
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: moment around anti trans legislation, right that like we have

766
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: to change the narrative that we have to fight the

767
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: bills where we can. And then I think the biggest

768
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: piece is like the impact on community and how we

769
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: get people resources, and so much of those resources are

770
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: mental health as well as like needing to flee if

771
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: they need to flee. But then I loved I saw

772
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,479
Speaker 1: you on Leftist Mafia, the conversation that you were having

773
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 1: that I've had with people here in New York because I,

774
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, I used to get my health care calend

775
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: Lord Community Health Center. They have a two year waiting

776
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: list because people are fleeing to New York. So places

777
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: that do provide gender firming healthcare on a sliding scale

778
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: that count, like calend Lor, like Aperture here in New York.

779
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: They are overrun because there's so many people who have

780
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: left other states. So there's an impact community impact on

781
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: people fleeing to you know, sanctuary cities or states that

782
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: those places then become overrun and there's not enough health

783
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: care providers. So is it about us getting more health

784
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 1: care providers in places like New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco,

785
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: Like what, like we've got to serve our community. I

786
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't even have much hope around that.

787
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: The legislator, around politicians, the media feels hopeless. But I

788
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: do know that we know how to take care of

789
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: each other as in community, that we have found ways

790
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: to do that through the years. And for me, that

791
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: like that feels like where the energy needs to be.

792
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 1: But what do you think?

793
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, I think mutual A when you brought

794
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: up campaign for some equality, and I think one of

795
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: the things that they're doing that's innovative is as a

796
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: pass through for mutual aid essentially to fund local orcs

797
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: that don't have the same kind of fundraising capacity. I

798
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: mean we've seen it every time, right, Like these things

799
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 2: happen everyone don't say a sale you And like, meanwhile,

800
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: a lot of the works that are doing the work

801
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: of actually keeping people housed, like getting them to appointments,

802
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 2: doing all of that work, often doing it on a

803
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: volunteer basis or for very little money. And you know,

804
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: those are the people that need the funding the most,

805
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: and they're the ones that are least likely to get it.

806
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: So Campaigners Out of Quality is working to do that.

807
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 2: They're also trying to do more emergency grants directly to

808
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: help people move, and that's something that nonprofits have never

809
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 2: been receptive to because it's just is not aligned with

810
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: the kinds of structures and the way that they're made

811
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: and governed and regulated to be able to do that.

812
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 2: But that's what we're going to really need to be

813
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: able to do this. When we look at abortion, abortion

814
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: funds have been the biggest critical lifeline to maintaining access

815
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: to abortion in this country despite it being banned in

816
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: so many states, and we need to basically emulate that

817
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: where you have like gender farming care funds that help

818
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: people you know, relocate out of state or able to

819
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: get their care or go to appointments out of state

820
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: so that they can get care if it's banned, or

821
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 2: you know, especially even for adults now that we're starting

822
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 2: to see targeted attacks on adult care. And then, you know,

823
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 2: I think one of the other aspects, as you're mentioning,

824
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 2: is we need our allies in blue states and stays

825
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: that want to protect trans rights not just to pass

826
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: you know, these kind of sanctuary laws which they're passing,

827
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: which are are great. I'm not going to downplay that,

828
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: But what we need as well are actual resources, Right,

829
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 2: we need more funding, and that's where the rubber meets

830
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: the road, and that's where there's actual work to be done.

831
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: We need states that are passing these safe harbor provisions

832
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: to additionally say, you know, we're going to fund community

833
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: centers and we're going to fund and expand care. Because

834
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: you know, I'm here in Boston and it has taken

835
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 2: me six months to see my primary care provider. It

836
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 2: is absolutely having an impact. And all of these issues

837
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: post COVID as well, and so at the same time

838
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: that there's all this increased demand, there's all these forces

839
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: that are kind of restricting care and access to care

840
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 2: just because there aren't enough providers and there's not enough

841
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: you know, the medical system is on the verge of

842
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: collapse here in the United States after COVID, and so

843
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: there's all of these issues, and like you said, it's

844
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 2: not going to stay limited, right, We're going to have

845
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: trans people leaving the South and the Midwest coming to

846
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: these states, and even if they don't leave, they may

847
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 2: be traveling round trip spirit with just them for an appointment, right, Like,

848
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: that's what may end up happening. And so as a

849
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: result of that, we have to be prepared to handle

850
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: that influx. And it's happening most acutely right now with

851
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: pediatric care for trans youth. But it's also affecting trans

852
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 2: adults as more and more trans adults leave those states.

853
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: And so just because you think you might be safe

854
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: in a blue state, now you're not. This will affect you,

855
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,959
Speaker 2: and this will impact you, and you know, God forbid

856
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 2: a Republican come in twenty twenty four. They're going to

857
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: push this policy nationally.

858
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: Which is terrifying, horrifying, And I think for people who

859
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: hear that and think, oh, that's not going to happen,

860
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 1: we can't imagine that we're in a post Dobbs United States.

861
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: There's a fill in Congress already introduced in the House

862
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 2: that would effectively ban most gender affirming care coverage. It

863
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't ban it out right, but basically make it impossible

864
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: to get it covered by insurance at all.

865
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: Was that Marjorie Taylor Green's bill? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

866
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: And just for people's peace of mind, that's it's not

867
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: likely to pass.

868
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: But no, it's not likely to pass. Now. Oh god,

869
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: there's so maybe I didn't hear you say this, but

870
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: another expert in this said, looking ahead, the bills that

871
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: like didn't pass this year that seem crazy and extreme,

872
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: are going to seem less crazy and extreme next year

873
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: and probably will be passed. So it's getting worse. So

874
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: I do think the one thing that corporations can do,

875
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: and since corporations run the country is like is employees

876
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: can fight back. But I think was good at Disney

877
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: is that the employees were like, no, this is not acceptable.

878
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: And so whenever I do my corporate talks, I've done

879
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: my you know, diversity inclusion things or corporations, and I

880
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: always like to encourage employees or corporations to push back

881
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: and like to find out what politicians the corporations are

882
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: giving money to, and if they don't align with these

883
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: alleged values of diversity inclusion, then challenge that as much

884
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 1: as you can collectively within those corporations. I know corporations

885
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: are going to save us, but like, let's see what

886
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: we can do since they're you know, running the country anyway, Yeah.

887
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 2: Anyway, sorry, just to fix side.

888
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: This is a conversation that could go on for hours

889
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: and hours, but to be continued. Yeah, I like to

890
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: end the podcast with the question what else is true?

891
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: And this is taken from my trauma resilience therapy and

892
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: that thing that we started the podcast with the idea

893
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: of both. And even when things seem catastrophic and devastating,

894
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: and they are in the world right now, for LGBTQ

895
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: plus folks, something else is true. Something else exists in

896
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: the world that can get us through, that can bring

897
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: us joy, that can create resilience in our nervous systems,

898
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: that can permeate collectively. So for you today, Alexandra, what

899
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: else is true?

900
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: Else is true?

901
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 1: Yeah?

902
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: I think for me, it's just that they can never

903
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 2: take our joy like they can try as they might.

904
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: They can make it more difficult. They can do and

905
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 2: say and pass all these bills. But at the end

906
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: of the day, when I was you know, I was

907
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: in Fire Island and I was in New York City

908
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 2: over the weekend during Pride, and despite all of this

909
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: terrible things that have gone on, I just still see

910
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: a beautiful community coming together and just seeing that we

911
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: still have each other and we still have so much

912
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: love for each other and support, and we are all

913
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 2: going to have each other's backs, and so you know,

914
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 2: I think this is a temporary operation. I think long term,

915
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: like we are, we're still going to win. We may

916
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 2: have a few stepbacks and it may take years to

917
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 2: recover from, but I think Glove will win in the end.

918
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 2: And I think our community has gone through much much

919
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: worse and we've come out stronger on the other end.

920
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 1: Absolutely, without a test there is no testimony, and we

921
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: are being tested right now, and our testimony will be

922
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful when we overcome. Thank you so much, Alejandra.

923
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: I hope I really want you to to leave this

924
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: conversation not feeling, you know, devastated and traumatized like and

925
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: for everybody out there listening, I want them to leave

926
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: with more information, but also like, yes, all of this

927
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: is happening, but you may maybe even know it was

928
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: happening before this conversation, and so you were like doing whatever.

929
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: So now you have the information, We're going to take

930
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: what action we can take today and on a daily

931
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: basis to combat this, to be there for each other,

932
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: to do what we can, and then we're going to

933
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: go and find our joy and we're going to go

934
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: and look into the eyes of the people we love,

935
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: and if we don't have those people, you know, do

936
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: something that we love that brings us joy. So yes,

937
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: all of this is horrific, and other things are true

938
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: as well. What is it legislati trolling? Trolling? What it

939
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: was the phrase legislation roll legislation? We got to laugh

940
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: at this stuff. Find those places in those bases to laugh.

941
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: Congrats on your engagement and thank you so much for

942
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: spending this time with me today. Thank you for all

943
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: the vital work that you do. Thanks so much, Alejandra.

944
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: Thanks well, that was intense, wasn't it, Oh, Alejandra Carabio.

945
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: I am so grateful to people like Alexandra who are

946
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: doing the work every single day and getting us information

947
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: tracking all of this. I don't want you to leave

948
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: this podcast depressed and feeling hopeless. I want you to

949
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: come away with things that you can do and something

950
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: that you can take away to regulate your nervous system

951
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: as well, so that you don't feel traumatized and scared

952
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: and hopeless around all this. So check out this campaign

953
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: forseeth An Equality. If you can't donate, elevate their mission

954
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 1: and share the link. And maybe for people who can donate,

955
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 1: they can donate. I also suggest the Transstice funding project,

956
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: and yeah, have our structural critique, have our awareness, and

957
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: then go and love on each other and don't let

958
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: any of this take away your joy to be alive

959
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: and to hopefully be yourself. All of this, it's impossible

960
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: to not have this messaging like seep in. If you

961
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: are out there struggling with your identity, with like loving

962
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: yourself as who you are, with trying to make the

963
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: decision to transition, just know that who you are is valid,

964
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: that the person that you know you are inside needs

965
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: to live out loud like. As hard as my journey

966
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: has been, I would not replace it for anything in

967
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: the world because choosing to live authentically, choosing to tell

968
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 1: the truth to myself about myself and then take action,

969
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: that's what transition was for me. The second I told

970
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: the truth and I took action around that truth, my

971
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: life changed for the better. So if you're out there

972
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: struggling in this world, in this environment and it's hard,

973
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 1: know that the truth shall set you free. The truth

974
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: shall set you free. Thank you so much for listening

975
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: to the Laverne Cox Show. Please rate review subscribe and

976
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 1: share with everyone you know. You can find me on Instagram,

977
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: Twitter and TikTok at Laverne Cox and on Facebook at

978
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox Breo. Until next time, stay the love. The

979
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox Show is a production of Shondaland Audio in

980
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit

981
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

982
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.