Speaker 1: And we begin with the news on former President Trump
Speaker 1: saying his attorneys have told him that he's been indicted
Speaker 1: indicted over the document's case. At Baxter, I know this
Speaker 1: is just breaking now you're in the Bloomberg newsroom in
Speaker 1: San Francisco. Do we know anything more at this point?
Speaker 2: Well, you know what we're going to get with an
Speaker 2: expert here in just a second. We know that it
Speaker 2: was a post Doug that his attorneys told him he's
Speaker 2: been indicted over the document's case. We know that it
Speaker 2: was moved to Florida. Let's get more now Bloomberg's a
Speaker 2: legal expert at a host of Bloomberg Law. June Grosso
Speaker 2: is with US Life. All right, June, So we know
Speaker 2: that they moved a couple of weeks ago the grand
Speaker 2: jury proceedings down to Florida. What do we know about
Speaker 2: this indictment at this point, Well.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the indictment says. The indictment could
Speaker 3: be on several different charges. There could be an obstruction
Speaker 3: charge in there, there could be an espionage a charge
Speaker 3: in there. It could just be mishandling of classified documents.
Speaker 3: It's hard to tell at this point what they decided
Speaker 3: to charge him with, so, you know, beyond him saying
Speaker 3: he's indicted, we don't really know much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he said it now, just yesterday or the
Speaker 2: day before, he had said that nobody had said anything
Speaker 2: to him about it, which may be true. He likes
Speaker 2: to break the news himself, So this this came down.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to be cynical there we left, but he.
Speaker 3: Does you know, he said that nobody had told him
Speaker 3: he was going to get indicted. That doesn't mean no
Speaker 3: one told him he was the target of the investigation,
Speaker 3: which is what the letter. You know, what the what
Speaker 3: the prosecutors tell you. They tell you the target of
Speaker 3: the investigation, and everybody draws the conclusion that, okay, if
Speaker 3: they're telling us this, that's their requirement, and that means
Speaker 3: that you're going to get indicted. So I think he
Speaker 3: was parsing words perhaps there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, thank you for making that distinction.
Speaker 2: I didn't make it clear. Now we've just got another
Speaker 2: headline June up saying he's been summoned to appear in
Speaker 2: Miami court on two. What is a process do you
Speaker 2: think from here?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think we'll learn more about this indictment.
Speaker 3: I assume that the Special Counsel or perhaps even the
Speaker 3: Attorney General is going to have a press conference. I mean,
Speaker 3: these indictments are sealed usually, so we find out about
Speaker 3: them when they decide to tell us. In this case,
Speaker 3: Trump decided to tell us so, but normally we'd wait
Speaker 3: for the prosecutors and he'll have to make an appearance
Speaker 3: in court and you know, plead not guilty. Most likely
Speaker 3: it will be probably a very brief appearance, sort of
Speaker 3: like we saw in New York. What's interesting here is
Speaker 3: that after having a grand jury in Washington, d C.
Speaker 3: For so long investigating the classified documents, the Special Council
Speaker 3: decided to open a grand jury investigation in Florida. And
Speaker 3: the thought is that he wanted to be sure that
Speaker 3: there would be you know, the venue would be met,
Speaker 3: that this was where. In other words, you have to
Speaker 3: have the case in the place where the alleged crime
Speaker 3: took place. So in this case, any obstruction or any hiding,
Speaker 3: any thing like that would have been done in Florida.
Speaker 3: And also this means that the Trump team loses a
Speaker 3: ground to try to stop the trial by saying, wait
Speaker 3: a second, this shouldn't be in Washington, D C. This
Speaker 3: should be in Florida. But I think that, you know,
Speaker 3: the prosecutors are going to have a harder time in Florida,
Speaker 3: that the jury pool is not going to be as
Speaker 3: sympathetic to the federal government as it might have been
Speaker 3: in DC.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that does not stop mister Trump from trying
Speaker 2: to change the venue. But Florida is where he has
Speaker 2: indicated that he would like it. Correct.
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what he said about it, but
Speaker 3: one assumes that he preferred Florida. As I said, it's,
Speaker 3: you know, a venue where there would likely be a
Speaker 3: jury pool that's friendlier to him and less likely to
Speaker 3: you know, agree with the federal government on some things
Speaker 3: as opposed to you know, DC or New York. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that that would be the best, the preferred
Speaker 3: venue for him. And it's just I think it shows
Speaker 3: that the prosecutors want to move this along very quickly.
Speaker 3: They want to get this to trial, and they don't
Speaker 3: want to be hung up in a lot of pre
Speaker 3: trial motions.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so Tuesday you say would be short. Now,
Speaker 2: let's go through the as you say, it's sealed it
Speaker 2: and it will will be opened most probably on Tuesday
Speaker 2: by the by the court. But the potential charges could
Speaker 2: be number one, that he took classified documents out of
Speaker 2: the White House. Number two that he that he obstructed
Speaker 2: justice in trying to let the FBI or DJ do
Speaker 2: its job. That those are potential Are they not right?
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, the obstruction of justice charge
Speaker 3: is very serious. And I something that you know, as
Speaker 3: we analyze the evidence that they seemed to have, that
Speaker 3: they might have enough to make a case about obstruction
Speaker 3: of justice. I mean, we discovered that they have all
Speaker 3: kinds of evidence. For example, they have a video tape
Speaker 3: of someone moving the boxes fro in mar Lago to
Speaker 3: a storage room the day before the federal prosecutors were
Speaker 3: scheduled to appear to collect them. There apparently is a tape,
Speaker 3: an audio tape of former President Trump bragging to a
Speaker 3: group of people that he had in his hand. No
Speaker 3: one saw it was in his hand, but he had
Speaker 3: in his hand some classified material about US intervention with Iraq,
Speaker 3: with possible with Iran. And also that he said that
Speaker 3: he knew that he shouldn't have. That's like a critical
Speaker 3: piece of information because he's admitting that he knew what
Speaker 3: was going on. And also something that I think sort
Speaker 3: of when this happened, I thought, well, they have a
Speaker 3: case because one of his attorneys has had to go
Speaker 3: before the grand jury and testify because the judge ruled
Speaker 3: what's called a crime fraud exception, and that is that
Speaker 3: if the judge believes that the defendant in this case,
Speaker 3: so the potential defendant in this case is using the
Speaker 3: lawyer as part of the crime, it's not the lawyer's crime,
Speaker 3: it's the defendant's crime, then they allow them to pierce
Speaker 3: the lawyer client privilege. And that's very rare that it happens,
Speaker 3: and very rare that it that it's granted. And in
Speaker 3: this case, Evan Corkran ended up not only testifying before
Speaker 3: the grand jury, but also turning over written notes and
Speaker 3: are written and an audio tape that he had about
Speaker 3: his conversations with Trump. So there seems to be a
Speaker 3: lot of evidence beyond just what we know about, you know,
Speaker 3: people coming in and testifying as to what Trump's state
Speaker 3: of mine was. So, you know, it would be really
Speaker 3: interesting to see whether this indictment sort of walk through
Speaker 3: the evidence that they have a talking indictment rather than
Speaker 3: what happened in New York where we didn't know very
Speaker 3: much when we saw the indictment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and June I I. And again I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to be cynical here, but it would be very smart
Speaker 2: for mister Trump at this point to not say too much.
Speaker 2: And yet he's on truth social part of his posting
Speaker 2: blitz now is quote that corrupt Biden administration has informed
Speaker 2: my attorneys that I have been indicted seemingly over the
Speaker 2: Box's hoax. So he's not going to calm the heat
Speaker 2: going into this. But could any of what he says
Speaker 2: now be be held against him in the court of.
Speaker 3: Law, Well, it depends on what he says. I mean,
Speaker 3: he said so much about these documents. He said that
Speaker 3: he could, you know, wave his hand and all the
Speaker 3: documents were declassified, and that just by asking for them.
Speaker 3: I mean, he said so many things that really are
Speaker 3: not grounded in fact. But what I think he's trying
Speaker 3: to do here to a certain extent is, you know,
Speaker 3: mess with the jury pool, sort of get the jury
Speaker 3: pool in his favor. And that's difficult to do. But
Speaker 3: yet enough you hear enough of this over and over
Speaker 3: and over again, and it starts to affect some people.
Speaker 3: So I think in this case. If it's held in Florida,
Speaker 3: as we suspect, there's going to have to be a
Speaker 3: lot a really strenuous waddear of the jurors, the potential jurors,
Speaker 3: to make sure that they've not been painted by any
Speaker 3: of these things. But Trump is also running for public
Speaker 3: office for president, so he also wants to get the
Speaker 3: electorate on his side. So he has a lot of
Speaker 3: different reasons for getting out there and making these statements,
Speaker 3: even though his attorneys may have advised him and probably
Speaker 3: did advise him not to say anything. I mean, we
Speaker 3: saw what happened with the New York case. Basically ignore them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, the pattern is there. June. You are
Speaker 2: absolutely awesome as usual, and I know you're prepping for
Speaker 2: a Bloomberg law and this will be up on top
Speaker 2: and that follows Daybreak Asia here on Bloomberg. June Grosso,
Speaker 2: legal expert here, Thank you so much for your time,
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. Let's get some political impact now from
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Jenny Shanze, professor of Bloomberg Politics, contributor and author
Speaker 2: of American Democracy and Crisis. Okay, Jeannie, The immediate political
Speaker 2: impact will be a bit mixed. But it hasn't seemed
Speaker 2: to affect any of the legal problems his overall stature
Speaker 2: in the polls, does it?
Speaker 4: It has not. I mean, he is still polling nationally
Speaker 4: in the double digits, although that is subject to change.
Speaker 4: And you know, I think this week alone, as we've
Speaker 4: seen at least three big entries into the race, it
Speaker 4: is a sign that there are Republicans out there who
Speaker 4: feel that this is an individual who may not be
Speaker 4: in this race for the long term or is going
Speaker 4: to be vulnerable. So while he's still leading by double
Speaker 4: digits facing the indictment out of New York, the indictment
Speaker 4: at the federal level is something that really could be
Speaker 4: a game changer. And can I just say the word
Speaker 4: here is extraordinary. Never in American history have we seen
Speaker 4: something like this happen to a former president, let alone
Speaker 4: somebody who is the leading candidate for the nomination for
Speaker 4: the major party for the next election. So extraordinary by
Speaker 4: any measure, regardless of what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, history after history after history. Hey, Doug is in
Speaker 2: New York. I think, Doug, you'd like to ask a
Speaker 2: couple of questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeanie, So that the move here that Trump is
Speaker 1: playing seems to be that he wants to delegitimize this investigation,
Speaker 1: the handling of the classified material. Is that still resonating
Speaker 1: within the base or within the Republican Party. Are people
Speaker 1: beginning to break away now and say, you know, we've
Speaker 1: had enough. There may have been a violation of the
Speaker 1: law here, and you're going to have to own up
Speaker 1: to that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know which Hunt has been sort
Speaker 4: of the way in which he has approached any criticism
Speaker 4: and certainly any move towards the legal realm in this
Speaker 4: kind of thing. And he's going to continue to make
Speaker 4: that case as you were just talking about. He's been
Speaker 4: doing that actively on truth social almost in real time.
Speaker 4: But I do think we are seeing Republicans in places
Speaker 4: like Iowa, New Hampshire where the base is really paying
Speaker 4: attention to the upcoming election and they are looking they
Speaker 4: are open to an alternative to Trump. I don't think
Speaker 4: he will lose that thirty percent regardless of what happens
Speaker 4: who have been with him this whole time. But I
Speaker 4: do think we see like fifty sixty percent potentially of
Speaker 4: the base of the Republican Party who says we would
Speaker 4: be open to an alternative to Trump. That doesn't mean
Speaker 4: an anti Trump candidate, but an alternative to Trump. And
Speaker 4: that's why I think we see now about ten to
Speaker 4: twelve can that it's in this race. So there is
Speaker 4: a willingness to look at other people because many Republicans
Speaker 4: you talk to, even if they like what Donald Trump
Speaker 4: did as president and they feel like he has been victimized,
Speaker 4: they do feel like this is a lot for them
Speaker 4: to handle and will make his ability to win the
Speaker 4: general very very tough.
Speaker 2: Now, Jenny the even President Biden, I was asked today
Speaker 2: a news conference with Rishi Sunnek at the White House
Speaker 2: and asked as he was had he folded up his
Speaker 2: book and he was starting to leave. You know, if
Speaker 2: you influence the DOJ, would you respond to what Donald
Speaker 2: Trump is saying, which is what you're talking about? And
Speaker 2: he had to respond to that does this. So this
Speaker 2: is going to play politically back and forth like that
Speaker 2: with Joe Biden not saying anything in Trump all over
Speaker 2: social media.
Speaker 4: That's right, and Joe Biden and the White House are smart.
Speaker 4: The campaign on the Biden side is smart to not
Speaker 4: say a word about this. If they were to jump
Speaker 4: into this tray, it would be a big mistake. Donald
Speaker 4: Trump is trying to goad them into saying something they
Speaker 4: should keep quiet. You know, when your opposition is faltering,
Speaker 4: let them falter is the rule. Don't jump in. And
Speaker 4: so I think he's going to continue to be quiet.
Speaker 4: I hope he is. But I do think Donald Trump
Speaker 4: is not going to let up. He is going to
Speaker 4: continue to say that this is a witch hunt, This
Speaker 4: is something that is politically motivated, and there is an
Speaker 4: audience for that argument. But I also think there are
Speaker 4: Republicans out there, a large percentage, who say, even if
Speaker 4: he was victimized in this way, it's going to be
Speaker 4: difficult for him to win the general And for our
Speaker 4: own purposes, if we hope to beat Joe Biden, as
Speaker 4: many of them, all of them do, we've got to
Speaker 4: look elsewhere. So while this may help Donald Trump to
Speaker 4: a certain extent, I don't think in the long term
Speaker 4: it's going to be a winning strategy for him.
Speaker 1: So at what point, if you're a Republican candidate running
Speaker 1: for president, Jeanie, do you make the choice to kind
Speaker 1: of cross the line to not defend the president, or
Speaker 1: to remain silent and to be critical and to actually
Speaker 1: say former President Trump you're carrying too much baggage around,
Speaker 1: particularly on the legal front. You're not the ideal candidate
Speaker 1: if we want to retake the White House.
Speaker 4: I think we're already seeing that happen. We saw Vice
Speaker 4: President Pence out in just the last couple of days, obviously,
Speaker 4: governor former Governor Chris Christie out making that case. So
Speaker 4: I do think we are hearing potential representatives and potential
Speaker 4: candidates for the Republican nomination who are making that case. Already.
Speaker 4: Ron DeSantis has made that case when he's been asked
Speaker 4: even things as basic as you need a two term
Speaker 4: Republican he's saying, and not a one term. So I
Speaker 4: do think we're hearing that, and I think if he
Speaker 4: is in fact indicted, or when he is indicted, facing
Speaker 4: the amount of charges that he's facing, as serious as
Speaker 4: they are, we're going to hear that drum beat more
Speaker 4: and more from these opposition candidates. A few have been
Speaker 4: reticent to make that case, but I think more and
Speaker 4: more the damn is going to be broken and we
Speaker 4: are going to hear that argument made.
Speaker 2: Timing this is going to be Jeannie going on. Now
Speaker 2: the core case doesn't come be presented immediately This is
Speaker 2: probably going to run into primary season, and even it
Speaker 2: could run toward the general. Can he be elected? Do
Speaker 2: you believe? And I know I'm asking for your opinion.
Speaker 2: Can he be elected?
Speaker 4: I think realistically, could he be elected in the general,
Speaker 4: I do not believe. So I go with Governor Chris Sanunu,
Speaker 4: who says, you know, a vote for Donald Trump in
Speaker 4: the Republican primary at this point is a vote for
Speaker 4: Joe Biden. And that is the argument I think you're
Speaker 4: going to hear Republicans make increasingly. It's simply difficult, given
Speaker 4: the math to imagine that he could win over the
Speaker 4: Moderates and Independence and the Republicans. He needs to capture
Speaker 4: the White House. Could he win the nomination? Yes, if
Speaker 4: there are you know, a large number of Republicans vying
Speaker 4: for this and they stay in a long time, he
Speaker 4: can hold his thirty, but he fairly difficult to win
Speaker 4: the general. But to your point about the timing, it's
Speaker 4: utterly astounding. Already we see the New York case schedule
Speaker 4: just after Super Tuesday. You couple a federal indictment with that,
Speaker 4: whatever happens at Georgia, and this is going to be astounding.
Speaker 4: This is a man who's going to be focused on
Speaker 4: fighting for his life and yet also running for president again. Extraordinary,
Speaker 4: like nothing we've ever seen in American history.
Speaker 3: If you're just.
Speaker 1: Joining us here on Bloomberger Daybreak Asia, that is Genie Shechianzeno,
Speaker 1: Professor also Bloomberg Politics contributor, helping us unpack the story
Speaker 1: that we've been talking about. Former President Trump saying today
Speaker 1: a short while ago on truth Social that his attorneys
Speaker 1: have been informed that he was indicted by the Special
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jack Smith's office, and The New York Times reporting
Speaker 1: that mister Trump is set to surrender to authorities in
Speaker 1: Miami next Tuesday.