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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff

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Speaker 1: the podcast about rebels and rabble and revolutionaries and some

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Speaker 1: other words that start with our. I don't feel like

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Speaker 1: I should have one more, Sophie Jamie will pumping out

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Speaker 1: race cars, race cars. They said race cards, and that

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Speaker 1: would have been nearly as no, no, no no. It

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Speaker 1: was a zoom connection. I said, race cars. Okay, well

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Speaker 1: on we go, okay, really started the starting the episode.

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Speaker 1: I don't know on a bummer. I wasn't intending I

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Speaker 1: was just race car. I was just talking about I

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Speaker 1: was just thinking about Lightning mc queen. Jamie. Jamie got

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Speaker 1: me a like between waffle maker for uh, I forgot

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Speaker 1: it was some holiday or some birthday like two years ago.

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Speaker 1: It's phenomenal. I mean, is it just a regular waffle

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Speaker 1: iron or is it or waffle maker? But you like,

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Speaker 1: does the imprint of Lightning McQueen. It's not just any wafflemaker.

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Speaker 1: And Owen Wilson voiced car, a corporate car voice by

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Speaker 1: Owen Wilson, um, and I celebrate that for some reason.

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Speaker 1: I do like the movie Cars and Cars three cars

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Speaker 1: two not as much. And that's my that's my word

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Speaker 1: on the matter. And That's why I said race cars. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: this is your show marker? Am I supposed to say that?

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Speaker 1: Take you out of this whole? I'm your one. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's where I mean. I have no idea who that is.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea is it a Nascar thing or

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Speaker 1: is it a movie thing? This is where I do

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Speaker 1: feel it's it's I constantly have to tell Robert what

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Speaker 1: basic pop culture literacy is. Like the time I had

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Speaker 1: to tell Mariana Grande was, um, Lightning McQueen. You know,

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Speaker 1: I would actually be curious, but your take on the

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Speaker 1: cars franchises, Um, you know, it's it's it's hit or

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Speaker 1: miss movie to movie. But but at times I would

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Speaker 1: say it could be arolic and good time to quote

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Speaker 1: every review I've ever read. Okay, I'd probably like it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, smiling you know he's children. Yeah yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: I live under a rock and I try to smile

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Speaker 1: a nod through a lot of pop culture conversations. Even

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Speaker 1: though I really like pop music, Like I listen to

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Speaker 1: more pop music than any other style of music. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I only listen to very specific pop music. So

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Speaker 1: I still completely don't know certain people are listeners listeners listeners.

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Speaker 1: I had the great, great, great joy last week telling

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Speaker 1: Margaret who Harry Styles is, and oh my god, it

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Speaker 1: was the time of my life. I was like, listen

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Speaker 1: to this song, listen to this song, listen to this

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Speaker 1: song on and I like it. It's good music. Why, yes,

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Speaker 1: yes it is. I just tell a lot of people

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Speaker 1: I worked with recently who do Alipa was. Margaret does

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Speaker 1: not know who that is. I kind of know who

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Speaker 1: that is. Dolipa makes great pop music, great dance music,

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Speaker 1: and my favorite thing about Dualipa is that she is

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Speaker 1: a terrible performer. She has great music, and then if

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Speaker 1: you watch her on stage, it looks like, look, it's

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Speaker 1: like a weekend at Bernie's situation. You're like, is this

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Speaker 1: person alive? It gives it as well though she gives

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Speaker 1: it a hundred and ten in the studio, but on

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Speaker 1: stage she's given it. It's wild and I've never seen

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Speaker 1: her perform live, and now I really want to. I'll

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Speaker 1: link you to some stuffs. Um, sorry for derailing what

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Speaker 1: with the lighting, McQueen of it all? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's okay. I've always terrified that they Basically every time

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Speaker 1: I come on, I'm like I hope no one talks

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Speaker 1: about sports because I think sports are cool, but I

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Speaker 1: have nothing to I don't know anything about them. You know,

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Speaker 1: it would be fun if I if I tried to

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Speaker 1: to double con everyone on the call by being like,

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Speaker 1: Dualipa is a famous baseball player, famous first base player,

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Speaker 1: I would have believed you. I would have been like, no,

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Speaker 1: I swear I could swear I knew that one, but

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Speaker 1: I guess I did. No. No, she's on the Dodgers. Yeah. No.

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Speaker 1: I listened to seven I live in to Sebdaliza, and

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Speaker 1: I listened to Banks, and I listened to Um Billie

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Speaker 1: Eilish and Thanks Rocks, Oh Billy, that's I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a big one. I love how dark pop music is,

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Speaker 1: and I really like dark stuff. This is me trying

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Speaker 1: to dig myself out of this hole. Um. But the thing,

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Speaker 1: I do have lots of weird opinions about our people

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Speaker 1: who have been dead for a hundred years, who have

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Speaker 1: no impact upon society anymore. And I don't have as

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Speaker 1: much knowledge there. So wait, as second told me, okay,

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Speaker 1: I will my guest this week. We can get to

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Speaker 1: this part. My guest this week is Jamie Loftus took

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Speaker 1: seven minutes. I love it. Um, Jamie loft is ak

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Speaker 1: the only person who can make a podcast about a

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Speaker 1: comic strip I didn't like as a kid and then

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Speaker 1: have me riveted. The only person who can make me

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Speaker 1: feel better about the time in high school. And I

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Speaker 1: decided to get really into cool edgy literature like Nabokov,

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Speaker 1: and I had to make sure I pronounced that right,

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Speaker 1: um in I mean that is that and lightning McQueen culture.

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Speaker 1: I really I really could have gotten you for, but

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Speaker 1: truly very little else. Okay, thrilled to be here, thrilled

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Speaker 1: to be I guess technically back Yeah, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I think for anyone who's not listening. He was like,

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Speaker 1: we just record these in one take. Um, we have

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Speaker 1: a five minute break, but you all had to wait

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Speaker 1: two days. So I had some toast. Did anyone have

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Speaker 1: any snacks? I have a bowl of fruit that I

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Speaker 1: can't eat because it will make noise. I pet my

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Speaker 1: dog the whole time, but she's a snack. Actually she's

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Speaker 1: a whole meal. So Sophie, Sophie's teething on her own dog.

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Speaker 1: And that's Sophie on the call. Sophie is my producer,

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Speaker 1: I wrote in here a joke, and it no longer

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Speaker 1: works in the flow of things, so I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to use it. I did appreciate it when I when

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Speaker 1: I read it, though, thanks. I'm going to use that

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Speaker 1: joke later. I'm going to recycle that joke because no

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Speaker 1: one's heard it except to you. It's really funny, all right.

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Speaker 1: So this week, and port Jamie doesn't get to know it.

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Speaker 1: So this week we're talking about the motherfuckering anarchists in

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Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War. And you probably need to go

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Speaker 1: listen to part one. Go listen to part one, please,

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Speaker 1: I would have needed to. Yeah, all right, So where

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Speaker 1: we last left our heroes almost seven after seventy years

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Speaker 1: of organizing, educating, striking active stayed doing a murder here

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Speaker 1: or they're three prime ministers dead at least one resigned,

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Speaker 1: all in the service of trying not to starve. They've

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Speaker 1: beaten back a fascist invasion and handed been handed a

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Speaker 1: bunch of guns by the government. So you know what

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Speaker 1: time it is. It's the opposite of dictator time. It's expropriation,

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Speaker 1: basically the same appropriation, which is the annoying jargon word

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Speaker 1: in academic leftism. For stealing shipped back from rich people

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Speaker 1: that they shouldn't have had in the first place. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so it is peanutparter jolly time. Yes, absolutely, so a

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Speaker 1: lot of revolutionaries wasted their time in the nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: well period, I could just end the sentence there, but

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Speaker 1: they wasted a lot of time in the nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: arguing I could also end the sentence there about whether

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Speaker 1: peasants or urban workers were like the quote proper revolutionary class.

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Speaker 1: But the anarchists in Spain didn't have this problem because

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Speaker 1: they weren't detached theorists arguing about who would make a revolution.

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Speaker 1: They were just peasants and urban workers. So they were like,

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Speaker 1: we should make the revolution. The answer as us and

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Speaker 1: they have been trying for decades to collectivize their workplaces

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Speaker 1: through all sorts of means, but the most effective one

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Speaker 1: turned out to be having a revolution. So they finally

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Speaker 1: have their chance seventy years and they did not let

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Speaker 1: this chance pass them up. Within a year, they had

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Speaker 1: se the industry and Catalonia collectivized, which means that they

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Speaker 1: had like taken it over. We're running it with the

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Speaker 1: workers themselves running the factories. That is a absurdive I

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Speaker 1: mean like that, that's an impressive amount of organization to

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Speaker 1: happen on such a short timeline. Yeah, and se agriculture

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Speaker 1: in the nearby region of Aragon was collectivized, and other

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Speaker 1: places all over Republican Health Spain that I don't have

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Speaker 1: the numbers in front of me for those were the

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Speaker 1: two biggest areas. But it was all over Republican Health Spain.

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Speaker 1: And it was all in this decentralized fashion, not from

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Speaker 1: the top down. So when workers took their factories over

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Speaker 1: from their bosses, efficiency shot up. And this always made

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Speaker 1: sense to me, like who knows how to run a

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Speaker 1: factory better than the people who run the factory, who

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Speaker 1: like do the work. Sometimes they would elect administrators from

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Speaker 1: their own ranks. Um. I actually think in some cases

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Speaker 1: old bosses continued working in factories as equal as to

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Speaker 1: everyone else, as like administrators. I'm not sure because I

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Speaker 1: read that, but it sounds so utopian that I like

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Speaker 1: don't quite want to believe it. I mean, I actually

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Speaker 1: want to believe it that I want to believe it too.

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Speaker 1: But they didn't give like any specific examples of that

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Speaker 1: happening or anything like that. No, it was it was

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Speaker 1: It was a little bit of a throwaway line and

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Speaker 1: a piece, and so I was like, it's a nice fantasy.

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Speaker 1: I hope it really happened, Yeah, exactly. And so what

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Speaker 1: they would do is they would elect administrator and they

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Speaker 1: would give them a mandate. They say, well, we're electing

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Speaker 1: you to accomplish the following thing. And if the administrator

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Speaker 1: deviated from that, not if they failed, I think, but

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Speaker 1: if they like weren't doing what they were supposed to do,

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Speaker 1: they we just recall that person an elect a new one,

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Speaker 1: which is the way that theoretically democracy is supposed to work.

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Speaker 1: Is that you don't like people to like tell you

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Speaker 1: what to do. You would like people to like handle stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know. M hm. They made health care free. New

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Speaker 1: hospitals were built pretty much right away. These like collectively

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Speaker 1: run hospitals the doctors, because the doctors went where they

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Speaker 1: needed instead of where the rich were, and so they

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Speaker 1: were able to get a lot more done. And they

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Speaker 1: also collectivized agriculture, and one of the things that's kind

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Speaker 1: of important to me is that they didn't force collectivization

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Speaker 1: on small farmers. They which is a big difference in

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Speaker 1: the sort of theory and practice of anarchist communism versus

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Speaker 1: authoritarian communism. So people did go to the big landowners

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Speaker 1: who owned all of the land that everyone was just

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Speaker 1: gig economy working for, and stole all their ship back

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Speaker 1: and we're like, this is our land now, sorry, and

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Speaker 1: they would set up these collective farms on it. But

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Speaker 1: if someone says I don't want to be a collective farmer,

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Speaker 1: I just want to farm for myself, they wo'll be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's your land, you can go do that. And so

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Speaker 1: a lot of people went and did that, and they

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Speaker 1: became small farmers or they already wore small farmers or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then they were like, after about a year, they

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Speaker 1: would look over and they'd see the collective farms doing

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Speaker 1: so much better, and they're like, Okay, never mind, I

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Speaker 1: want to go collectivize and cool. And it matters to

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Speaker 1: me because then it's it's it's their choice, right, And

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I get really teary eyed about that.

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Speaker 1: There's actually times throughout history where like people have been

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Speaker 1: killed for saying, hey, why don't we um instead of

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Speaker 1: forcing people to collectivize, offer them the chance to collective us.

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Speaker 1: And then the only thing was that basically they all

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Speaker 1: believe that wage labor was exploitation, so you couldn't hire employees.

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Speaker 1: But if you worked at yourself, like you and your

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Speaker 1: family or whatever you can, you can have land into it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's an extremely powerful thing to see your peers making

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Speaker 1: it work and then have to, like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: question everything you've ever been told and be like, no,

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Speaker 1: this clearly does work better and they're happier and they're

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Speaker 1: that's that's very beautiful. Yeah. And so it wasn't just workplaces.

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Speaker 1: Schools in popular education were like their thing, and so

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Speaker 1: there's massive literacy campaigns. It's very low literacy rates among

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Speaker 1: the workers prior to this, and everywhere they go they

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Speaker 1: set up schools and they start teaching children and adults both.

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Speaker 1: And the economy was different in different places, right, because

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Speaker 1: this wasn't a overnight I mean, it was actually very fast,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't a complete and total transformation of all

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Speaker 1: elements of all parts of republic in Spain. So everything

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Speaker 1: is kind of in this hybrid model and the economy

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Speaker 1: looks different. So some places, if there's enough of something,

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Speaker 1: if there's surplus of whatever, you can literally just walk

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Speaker 1: into the communal storehouse and take the thing you need.

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Speaker 1: If you're like, I want to can of peaches, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why you want a can of peaches. I

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Speaker 1: think the song just came into my head when I

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Speaker 1: needed an example. I was like, there's been there's been

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Speaker 1: great works of art about of peaches. Yeah, they come

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Speaker 1: from a can there put there by a collective. And

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Speaker 1: you don't know who Lightning mc queen is. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's very weird, selective lack of knowledge. What I try

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Speaker 1: to do is like pick a couple of pop culture

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Speaker 1: things and then reference. This isn't a good example because

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Speaker 1: songs from the nineties, but alright, sometimes trying to come

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Speaker 1: over with a couple of pop culture things and like

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Speaker 1: drop them into things so that people think I'm hipping

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Speaker 1: with it and then yeah, we get it. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then smiling nod when people talk about things I don't

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Speaker 1: know about. Um, what's great is I'm starting to know

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Speaker 1: your tell. Oh great, somebody's going to have a soundboard install.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm siren start going. No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna help you gotta wave with a lie. Alright, alright,

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Speaker 1: so the producer does Okay, so some places you could

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Speaker 1: just walk in and take stuff, including cans of peaches,

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Speaker 1: and there's no money, no ration cards, no labor vouchers

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Speaker 1: for some of these things. In some places, other stuff

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Speaker 1: that's scarce, you might have to pay for it, and

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Speaker 1: in some places you would pay with a ration card.

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Speaker 1: Basically they would go around and say, like how much

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Speaker 1: does your family need, and then this is your ration

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Speaker 1: hard for that amount, so it's not tied into how

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Speaker 1: much you work. And then in other places, I think,

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Speaker 1: I think, but I'm not certain that that was slightly

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Speaker 1: more of the case in rural places and in urban

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Speaker 1: places this other method was more common, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: certain about that. In other places it was labor vouchers.

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Speaker 1: So basically like one hour's work is equal to one

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Speaker 1: hour's work regardless of what job you do, um in

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Speaker 1: order to try and avoid economic inequality, and and there's

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Speaker 1: like you know, lots of people have argued about whether

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Speaker 1: this you know, someone who has to go to school

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Speaker 1: for a very long time to be able to what

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Speaker 1: they do whatever. This I'm not trying to like claim

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Speaker 1: this is a touchy subject, but that but that is

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Speaker 1: I mean definitely forward to us. So yeah, um so

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Speaker 1: one source I read claimed that about a third of

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Speaker 1: the Spanish population was involved in this revolution to one

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Speaker 1: degree or another, like seven to eight million people were

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Speaker 1: involved in this, and of course this is only in

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Speaker 1: areas that weren't controlled by Franco. And so they and

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Speaker 1: the c n T is kind of running most of this,

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Speaker 1: but not all of it. And they talk a big

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Speaker 1: utopian game, and they work their fucking asses off to

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Speaker 1: try to live up to their utopian ideals. But they

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Speaker 1: did not always succeed. There's there's all kinds of ship

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Speaker 1: they sucked up, and like, for one thing, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people were like suddenly anarchists overnight, and so this

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Speaker 1: did lead to mob justice and unjustified violence I guess

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Speaker 1: called the red terror by the when the fascist takeover,

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Speaker 1: they call it the red terror, as compared to like

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Speaker 1: the fascist violence gets called the white terror. Everyone in

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Speaker 1: like nineteenth century Europe is really into every political ideology

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Speaker 1: having a color. And yeah, I am I was trying

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Speaker 1: to think of a funny reason why that might be,

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Speaker 1: but I think it might just be a them thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of what gets called atrocities, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to call atrocities. A lot of it water atrocities. But like,

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Speaker 1: for example, the biggest thing that is controversial is they

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Speaker 1: killed a lot of Catholic priests, and which looks really

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Speaker 1: bad at first glance, and a lot of times I

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Speaker 1: think it was really bad. I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: times it was unjustified. But a lot of other times

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Speaker 1: they were very specifically killing the people who were like

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Speaker 1: had been snitching them out and getting everyone killed and

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Speaker 1: were like the center of right wing politics that was

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Speaker 1: literally working with the fascists and literally allied with the

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Speaker 1: invading army. So in many cases, Catholic priests what could

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Speaker 1: be aligned with being called like right wing thought leaders. Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: It would be like the local person in your village

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Speaker 1: who's feeding information to the fascist and army that is invading. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: strategically I see it, and it gets it gets messier

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Speaker 1: than that. But one thing that I think matters is

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't on a systemic level like the CNT

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Speaker 1: was never like and we hereby call for everyone to

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Speaker 1: run around and you know, do this stuff. And actually

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Speaker 1: a lot of people were to try and stop the

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Speaker 1: unjustified elements of it. A Again, I feel bad anytime

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Speaker 1: I'm like, let me defend atrocities because I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not I guess I'm trying to say it's messier than

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Speaker 1: it is presented. Sure, sure, I know, I think I

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Speaker 1: think that's completely fair. And some of the other violences

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Speaker 1: against like landowners and stuff who were like, you can't

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Speaker 1: steal our land, and like we're going to steal your land.

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Speaker 1: But one of the reasons we know about the Red

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Speaker 1: Terror is because they actually did believe in free speech

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Speaker 1: and so in the anarchists in particular, so the acts

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Speaker 1: of violence and stuff would get recorded and would get

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Speaker 1: out because they weren't stopping foreign journalists. I'm sure there

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Speaker 1: were individual instances where people try to stop them. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but I'm very aware of multiple instances where

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Speaker 1: foreign journalists are writing about these things and are not

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Speaker 1: stopped from writing about these things. As compared to the

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Speaker 1: White Terror, which the fascists really like preventing people from

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Speaker 1: oven free speech and writing. Um not known for their

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Speaker 1: love of in spite of there's often screaming it. They

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Speaker 1: actually do not like free speech as aims to making

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Speaker 1: them look bad. Correct the So the other thing that

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Speaker 1: the anarchists talked a big game about and worked really

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Speaker 1: hard at but did not always pull off was women's

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Speaker 1: liberation and gender equality. And they were miles ahead of

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Speaker 1: the Republicans, who were miles ahead of the fascists, but

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Speaker 1: they still had miles to go, and there were a

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Speaker 1: lot of people working too to cross those miles. I've

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Speaker 1: now destroyed that analogy by taking it too far. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's also not a specific miles were crossed either way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it might have been kilometer. Actually, I have no idea

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Speaker 1: what people used to measure distance twenties or thirties Spain.

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Speaker 1: So how dare you americanized that analogy for every for

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Speaker 1: for all three of our benefit right? Totally. So. The

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Speaker 1: anarchists have been fighting for the liberation of women for

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Speaker 1: a long ast time, to various series of success like

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Speaker 1: at an anarchist conference in eighteen seventy two sixty years prior,

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Speaker 1: they had declared that women need to be equal to

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Speaker 1: men in the workplace, in the home, both. But that

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Speaker 1: was a conference of mostly men who said that, sure,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the women involved were really interested

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Speaker 1: in the destruction of the patriarchal family model and free

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Speaker 1: love and what they called plural love, which I think

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Speaker 1: would just actually be polyamory. Abounded, and they also were

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Speaker 1: huge into teaching birth control, and they actually created this

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Speaker 1: whole working class theory for family planning because everything had

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Speaker 1: to like tie back into class politics for them, because

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Speaker 1: they're zealots sometimes sure, and mostly I think that they

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Speaker 1: wanted it because they believed in the freedom of the

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Speaker 1: individual to make choices. But they were like, Okay, poor

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Speaker 1: women suffer. These are women saying coming up with these things.

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Speaker 1: Poor women suffer the most from having large families that

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Speaker 1: are hard to feed, and beyond that, the the poor,

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Speaker 1: which of which our anarchists are included, If they have

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Speaker 1: fewer children, it lowers the pool of labor and gives

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Speaker 1: more power to individual laborers, thus reducing unemployment. And also

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Speaker 1: if there's fewer kids, there's fewer people to go get

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Speaker 1: shipped off to war. Cool cool reproductive policy. Oh my god, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not not shocked to hear it. I

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Speaker 1: was in the show I'm working on right now. There

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Speaker 1: was I'm sure, I mean you've probably heard of her before,

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Speaker 1: but Victoria Woodhall, who was like the first woman to

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Speaker 1: ever Oh I get to teach you something, yeah, please

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Speaker 1: do there. Well, I didn't I didn't understand the term

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Speaker 1: free love as it existed in the nineteenth century. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I found out because I'm writing and working on

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Speaker 1: a show about um the Ghost Church of America American spiritualism,

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Speaker 1: and there was a spiritualist presidential candidate in the early

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventies I think it was seventy two. She was

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Speaker 1: like ostracized from her own religious community who believe in

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Speaker 1: talking to spirits because they were like, well, yeah, ghosts

376
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Speaker 1: are real, but a woman as president ridiculous. But she

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Speaker 1: was running on a platform that involved It was a

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Speaker 1: women's rights platform, it was a spiritualism platform, and it

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Speaker 1: was a free love platform. And the only thing that, like,

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Speaker 1: her definition of that was even more limited. It was

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Speaker 1: like it didn't even include the concept of polyamory. It

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Speaker 1: just said, you can get divorced without being you know,

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Speaker 1: like thrown out of society and let's maybe think about um,

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Speaker 1: you know, reproductive rights. And she was thrown out of

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Speaker 1: Ghost Church. So any nineteenth century, I just had never

386
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Speaker 1: heard free love in the nineteenth century since and you're like, wow,

387
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Speaker 1: this is incredibly low stakes, Like holy cow, yeah, I

388
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Speaker 1: think you know, and some of these people were pushing

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Speaker 1: for something. It looks like polyamory. But yeah, I think

390
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Speaker 1: a lot of them was like secular marriage, you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea that you could kind of enter and leave, right.

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Speaker 1: Most of them are pushing for like our mom, you know, lives,

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Speaker 1: which I guess is what it eventually allowed to. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just was kind of interested in, like the evolution

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Speaker 1: of the term free love and how it was kind

396
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Speaker 1: of demonized for for no reason. Yeah, it's like the

397
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Speaker 1: Simpsons thing where the like I was saying, boot turns,

398
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, and they're like, free love means you get

399
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Speaker 1: to sleep whoever you want. Like we're not saying that.

400
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm saying that, right, but then you're like,

401
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 1: we are saying that also, Like, let's have a conversation

402
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Speaker 1: about why you feel so weird about polyamory, you fucking weirdos.

403
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Speaker 1: Mind your own fucking business. Some of the some of

404
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Speaker 1: the women that I was reading about for this this

405
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: chunk about the fight for gender equality within the CNT.

406
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Speaker 1: It would talk about the way that they would like

407
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Speaker 1: scandalize their family. There there would be like third generation anarchists,

408
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: and they would scandalize their parents by going on bicycle

409
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Speaker 1: trips that are like mixed men and women where they're

410
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: all like twenty years old, and I'm like, the past

411
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: is wild, Like we've got bigger fish to fry, and

412
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 1: we're already frying them. Why are you being weird about

413
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Speaker 1: my bike? Like, yeah, I'm just trying to have a weekend. Yeah. So,

414
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: because men within the CNT were failing regularly, a bunch

415
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: of women got together and we're like, we have we

416
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Speaker 1: have to do something about this. And actually a lot

417
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Speaker 1: for a while a lot of anarchists women just didn't

418
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Speaker 1: join the CNT and they just did their anarchist organizing

419
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Speaker 1: outside of that institution. But I think as things started

420
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Speaker 1: the heat up, it became like this is a lot

421
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Speaker 1: of the sort of more independent anarchists joined the c

422
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Speaker 1: n T out of like, well, we're having a revolution

423
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Speaker 1: and this is the organizing body, so let's join the

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00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: organizing body of it. And so in the nineteen thirties

425
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Speaker 1: a bunch of different anarchists women were talking about this

426
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: problem more and more, and so two different groups of

427
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,239
Speaker 1: women in the CNT, one in Madrid and one in Barcelona,

428
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: where two groups were founded to address it. And the

429
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: Madrid faction called itself Mhadas Libra's Free Women, which is

430
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: a way cooler name than the Barcelona name, which translates

431
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: to feminine culture group. I mean, not untrue, but could

432
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: use a second draft. Fortunately, what they did is in

433
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 1: Barcelona they just changed their name to my head of Sleebrius.

434
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: Also good call, Good Call. So I don't know if

435
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: you knew this, Jamie, but one of the main sponsors

436
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,959
Speaker 1: that we're trying to have on this show is anything

437
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 1: that's good, and in particular, anything that isn't a product

438
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: or a service, but it's just a concept that is

439
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: a good concept. That's what we're trying to to get advertising.

440
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think we have to take other ads as well. Um,

441
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: I've been a big advocate of the potato and tap water,

442
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: but if there's anything that's just sort of generally good

443
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: potable tap water, there's anything so generally good you'd like

444
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: to be sponsored by, Oh, something I would like to

445
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: be sponsored by? Yeah, I would need to be sponsored by,

446
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: um my neighbor's lemon tree, which in many ways I

447
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: am sponsored by because sometimes she'll be like, there's too

448
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: many lemons, and now there's a bag of them on

449
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: your front step, and I think that it's it's one

450
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: of the best parts of my week, and it seems

451
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: to bring her joy as well. So I'd like to

452
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: bring my my neighbor's lemon tree into the mix. And

453
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: that's also a really good metaphor for the whole hope

454
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: thing that we've trying to go for here. All right, well,

455
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: we are only sponsored by those things, and anything else

456
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: that we're sponsored by slipped in by accident. Here's some ads. Okay,

457
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: we are back and we are talking about the women

458
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: of Muhetta sleep Rest, which I guess it is repetitive.

459
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: The so so one of the initiators of muhetaslie Brest,

460
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: and they didn't use the word founder because that sounded

461
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: too hierarchical, because anarchists are caricatures of themselves. Love them,

462
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: I love them. Yeah. Was this lesbian anarchist poet named

463
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: Lucia Sanchez sour No, and she would write about the

464
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: need for basically feminism, although they actually very consciously didn't

465
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: call themselves feminists because they didn't trust feminism to be

466
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: not trying to create power over men, because they had

467
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: only been exposed to certain elements of feminism, I guess

468
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: um and has caused tension years and years later, like

469
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: decades later, they were like, we don't like it these

470
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: young feminists because they're just trying to like take over

471
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: and they hate the men or whatever. Classic feminists. Yeah,

472
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: but at the time, they're having a revolution and they're

473
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: fighting for women's inclusion and they're creating women only groups

474
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: within it. And and so they start a magazine called

475
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: Mohadibras and then also wrote about these issues in the

476
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: main newspaper of the CNT And what what year are

477
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: we in now? Just thirty six I believe they start

478
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: the magazine, and then thirty seven, I think is when

479
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: it becomes groups. And the whole Spanish Civil War period

480
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 1: is ninety six and nineteen thirty nine basically. So they

481
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: end up founding this nationwide sorry initiating nationwide federation of

482
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: thirty thousand autonomous women. And they had a whole bunch

483
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: of goals, so they just started working towards all of

484
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: them all at once. They would set up flying daycare

485
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: centers so women could drop their kids off if they

486
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: wanted to go to organizing meeting. Because this is a

487
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: way in which women were being disincluded from the process

488
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: of creating a new society. They set up women centers

489
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: to teach adult women. They focused on fighting in illiteracy,

490
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: which was even worse among women. They also taught birth

491
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: control and self pleasure and they Oh my gosh, I

492
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: know these people just rule um. Originally the entire episode

493
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: was literally just going to be about them, and then

494
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: I like wrote the context around them, and I was like,

495
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: in order to understand the context the first episode, were

496
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: you like, were you like cool people, cool stuff? Yeah?

497
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: These are these are cool people who did cool stuff

498
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: my head of sleeves. Absolutely. They are like the pinnacle

499
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: of the cool ones in here. And they they taught

500
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: trades that were traditionally only practiced by men, like auto

501
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: mechanics and tram driving. They were not themselves and militia,

502
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: but they supported the women who were fighting in the militias.

503
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: And they led military trainings. And I don't know if

504
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: you've ever gone to any training that's about how to

505
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: and things like that, but learning from men is not

506
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: always the best environment for learning. Who does it perhaps

507
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: feel a little unsafe? Yeah, weird, no kidding, because historically

508
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: I don't see the tension. I don't see where that

509
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: would come from. Yeah, I think it was like some

510
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: specific thing that was happening only in the nineties in Spain.

511
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: It must have just been a generational thing. I can't

512
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: relate with that at all. So so it was it

513
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: was women showing women how to shoot guns. Amazing, Yeah,

514
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: and like lead military, you know, excursions and all that stuff,

515
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: because they're in all of this is happening. There's also

516
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: a war on right, and at the at the start

517
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: of the war, women were in the fight. They were

518
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: absolutely like they're at the very beginning. But and actually

519
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: originally there's one of the reasons there's so many photos

520
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: of women with fools from the Spanish Civil War is

521
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: that people used as propaganda. I think on both sides.

522
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: I think the fascists were like, look at these terrible

523
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: people they have women fight, and the anarchists women were like, look,

524
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: we're awesome, We're gonna take pictures. But then I think

525
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: some of the like leftist men were like, let's shame

526
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: leftist men into fighting by taking pictures of women fighting

527
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: and being like, you coward, these women are doing they're

528
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: fighting for you. I hate that. I would fully still

529
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: believe if that were happening right now where it's like,

530
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: isn't it upsetting to say, oh, the left needs their

531
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: women to fight. You're like, yeah, yeah, that's cool, Like yeah,

532
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: that's okay, right, Like I mean, regardless, I'm glad that

533
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to look up the pictures right now. I'm

534
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: thrilled they exist. And so gradually pressure from the government

535
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: removed women from the front lines. And one of the

536
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: most baffling and angry making things in this whole thing

537
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: is that the anarchists in the end went along with it,

538
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: and so women were no longer allowed to fight in

539
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: the front lines of the military. And I think it

540
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: was happening around the same time that all of the

541
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: militias were starting to get incorporated into the regular army,

542
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: which is stuff that I'll get too later. And so

543
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: there's like I'll read stories about, actually I'll come up

544
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: later about a woman who you know, went and fought

545
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: fascists and then ended up an a munitions factory at

546
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: the end of the war or whatever instead. And there's

547
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: a lot of things where they basically, like the government

548
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: was often the ones supplying the guns, and they would say,

549
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: if you let women fight in your militia, we won't

550
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: give you any guns anymore. I don't know. And and

551
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: the reason for This is that all of the government

552
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: didn't really want there to be a revolution against the

553
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: government for some strange reason, and they also specifically didn't

554
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: want to alienate the potential allies of England and France,

555
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: which spoiler alert, are not their allies and never become

556
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: their allies. But they're like afraid of seeming too radical,

557
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: not the anarchists they love seeming too radical. But the

558
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: government is like, we look crazy to the Western, proper good,

559
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: patriarchal world by having women on the front lines, you're

560
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: making us look bad. So by the end of the war,

561
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: women are no longer at least openly. I assumed that

562
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: there was probably many women fighting covertly, but I don't

563
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: have any evidence about that. I just that every single

564
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: war that's ever happened women fighting, it just usually covertly.

565
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: That is so again, it's like not particularly surprising, but

566
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: that that is an issue where fascists and uh, because

567
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: who are men They're like, well, you know, we don't

568
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: disagree on everything. We don't believe in women's rights per se.

569
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: So mostly that I think it's mostly the Republican men

570
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: and the like. Sure, but you kind you know, honestly, like, yeah,

571
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: you know far better than I do. I mean, it's

572
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: certainly I mean it not to drawn immediate parallel, but

573
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, I'm far be it for me to say

574
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: a center left men doesn't want women to have rights.

575
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: There's a bajillion examples that live within a you know,

576
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: a mile of ye. And there's also far left men

577
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 1: and anarchists, men who feel the exact same way, and

578
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: like you know, can't say it in public, but act

579
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: that way in private, and I would hope less. And

580
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,239
Speaker 1: so I was saying that a lot of anarchists were

581
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: second or third generation in the movement, but some radicalize

582
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: their parents. And I want to tell you about one

583
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: of my favorite of the meherdas librist women. Pepita Karpena

584
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: was raised working class, like like, started as a seamstress

585
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: when she was twelve, and two of her five siblings

586
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: died in infancy, and and she hung out with more

587
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: with boys more than girls. And so when the boys

588
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: started getting recruited to union meetings, she started going to

589
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: and when she was like fourteen or something, she started

590
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: going to meetings, and she described herself as a mascot

591
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: to the anarchist steel workers union. And when her dad

592
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: complained basically being like, your fourteen you go and hang

593
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: out with these like anergas steelworker union men, so cool.

594
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: And so she's like, well, dad, come to So Dad

595
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: goes and Dad is like, oh, this is cool, and

596
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: he signs up UM and so now she's committed an

597
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: archo syndicalist and she starts organizing her fellow seamstresses. She's

598
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: a teenager, and the bosses find some excuse to fire her,

599
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: and it's really transparently because of a union organizing so

600
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: a lot, awful lot of steel workers. And the way

601
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: it gets described in the piece that I read is

602
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: they complained, but I believe that this is very in

603
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: quotes that they complained and they complained to the boss

604
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: and then she was reinstated. So and she wrote memoirs,

605
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: but only they're only available in Spanish and French, and

606
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: I don't read either of those particularly well, So I

607
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what happened, but I basically think that

608
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: they just showed up more like you're gonna fucking give

609
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: her job back? Wow, that is I mean, truly, I'm

610
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: trying to think of if there's anything. I've definitely moved

611
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: my parents further to the left. I don't think I

612
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: fully radicalize them. I think the best radicalization job I

613
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: ever pulled was getting my dad into Bright Eyes. That's

614
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: pretty good. Not easy to do. I'm not easy. It

615
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: wasn't easy and it took time. Okay, I know you do.

616
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: I could tell because you didn't do. I brought my

617
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: I got my dad to come to a Bright Eyes

618
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: concert that he thought it was dangerous for me to

619
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: go to alone. And I made him stand in the

620
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: back the whole time and pretend he didn't know me.

621
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: And then at the end he was like, that was

622
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: pretty good. That is that's a really good dad move.

623
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, all right, if you're going to come,

624
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: then you're not allowed to pretend to know me. And

625
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: he accepted this, and it seems like he, like my

626
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: memory is he was standing on the kind of this

627
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: like back line of parents that were probably all running

628
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: a similar bargain with their fourteen year old. I mean

629
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: that's where we stay and all day every day. Yeah,

630
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: quick shout out, quick shout out to. I just want

631
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: to quickly plug my dad. The time I saw Bright

632
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: Eyes was because I didn't know who they were. It's

633
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: so impressed them that they let me in. I was

634
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: like a hitchhiking, like living out of a backpack, dirty kid,

635
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: and I was hanging out outside a Bright Eyes show

636
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: waiting for my friend to give me a ride somewhere

637
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,479
Speaker 1: who was in the show. And the percussionist of Bright

638
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: Eyes was really excited to talk to us and and said,

639
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: well you know. I was like, oh, we are in

640
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: a band and he was like yeah, and I was

641
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: like what band are you and he's like, oh, I'm

642
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: in Bright Eyes. And I was like what do you

643
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: all sound like? And he's like you haven't heard of us?

644
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: And I was like no, who. He was like power

645
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: move al right, Well yeah I know exactly. It was

646
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: great and she was like, well, I'll let you in

647
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: and I was like I'm here with all my friends

648
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: and he was like, I'll put you all on the

649
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: guest list and I was like okay, and wow, you

650
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: really you really shook him to his core by not

651
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: knowing who Bright Eyes was. He's like, oh, yeah, well

652
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: are about to know? I know. And I enjoyed it.

653
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: It's very good show. Um, they put on a fun show.

654
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: That is what a what a beautiful story and well

655
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 1: for everybody, happy alright, So Pepito, her niece, eventually writes

656
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: a novelization of her biography, which is just cool as hell.

657
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,959
Speaker 1: But that's I want give me that confidence for one

658
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: half of one second. That's awesome. And so during the

659
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: war she joins the militia called Libertarian Youth. And as

660
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: a side note, libertarian was an anarchist term for socialism

661
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, and it was actually very consciously stolen,

662
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: Like there's a literal quote. I don't have it written

663
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: down in here anymore. I got cut from the script

664
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: at some point. But if you if you look up

665
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: the word libertarian on Wikipedia, there's the direct quote from

666
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: Murray Rothbard where he's like, we stole this word from

667
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: the anarchist Fuck. Yeah. So anyway, that's so dark. I

668
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 1: get that I wasn't aware of of that lineage. That's

669
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: extremely dark, and so so it is. I mean, I

670
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: know that this is true, but it's just always a

671
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: bummer to hear that like explicitly stated of like, oh

672
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: those moments where you have to explain the complicated history

673
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: of a word. That probably means that some asshole has

674
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: won and taken the word at some point. And that's

675
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: why so people, you know, centuries later, will Um or

676
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: decades later at least will Um get bored and stop

677
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 1: listening to you. Yeah, yeah, I'm talking about a war

678
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: where then the Republicans and the Libertarians are the left

679
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: side of the you know, are the leftists? I mean,

680
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: I am confused. They won totally. So before she turns eighteen,

681
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: she assaults a fascist barracks. God damn. And then later

682
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: she works at a grenade factory. It might be a

683
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: munitions factory, but she made grenades at the factory, So

684
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to call it a grenade factory because it's

685
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: a cooler word for her. It was a grenade factory.

686
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: And she stayed in anarchist her entire life. She survives

687
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: the war. She she worked at an anarchist research institute.

688
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: She participated in conversations about feminism and the movement. And

689
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: I could just and so she's working at this library,

690
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: and I just really like the idea of walking into

691
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: a library and then the woman in her eighties is

692
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: helping you, and it's like, oh, I used to make

693
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: grenades to throw it fascists. After I was done throwing

694
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: grenades at fascist Anyway, what can I help you? Find

695
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: that is better than the beginning of Titanic. Yeah, we're like,

696
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: who's this woman did? She's like, oh, it's it's better

697
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: than being than the naked drawing on the Titanic. I

698
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: made grenades, um, Yeah, to kill fascists with that, and

699
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: I want that version of titan I you work in Hollywood. Yeah,

700
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: it's my job to go do this. So if we

701
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: don't listen to that part, Leonardo DiCaprio has drawn a

702
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: pencil sketch of a topless let's do it woman making

703
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: grenades to kill fascists with which you might need a

704
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 1: like voice bubble, which makes it less artful to state

705
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: her political beliefs. But I think we could will make

706
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: it work. It's just okay. So while anarchists are collectivising

707
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 1: huge chunks of Spain, they and others are are fighting

708
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: against the fascists, and at the very beginning it's looking

709
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: good for the Republic. The republic is the non fascists.

710
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: The fascists. When they take a little less than half

711
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: the army, a little less than half the navy, they

712
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: take more than half the guns. They also take most

713
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: of the officers, and all the best ships, and the

714
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: most experienced troops by far. Okay, it actually wasn't looking

715
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: very good at the beginning, but their initial crew was defeated,

716
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: and the Republican had the major cities, the industry, more

717
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: land and more people, and they had the militias. Plus

718
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: England and France are right there, and there's no way

719
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: they're going to let fascists take over country right on

720
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: their doorstep. Doesn't sound like them to me. Yeah, I'm

721
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: just kidding, That's exactly what they do. Yeah. So, and

722
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: I'm like mad at some ship that communist did during

723
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: the war, and some communists are mad about the ship

724
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: the anarchist did during the war. But the reason that

725
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: Spain lost had nothing to do with any of that.

726
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: Spain lost because it was outgunned. And the reason it

727
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: was outgunned is because the fascist countries Italy and Germany

728
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: were right the funk there with guns and troops and

729
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: everything like immediately, whereas the Great Defenders of Democracy signed

730
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: a non intervention pact, ignoring the fact that the other

731
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: side was ignoring this pact, and then they enforced this

732
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: pact by setting up a fucking naval blockade to make

733
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: sure that no one would help the republic which didn't

734
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: stop US companies Texico and GM from collaborating with the

735
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: fascist either. Wow icons icons one and all. So the

736
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: reason that Franco won the Spanish Civil War, and the

737
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 1: reason that Spain was fascist for forty years is because

738
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: the upper classes of England and France were either one

739
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: fucking cowards afraid of cause in the World War, which

740
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: spoiler alert happened anyway, or they were just putting their

741
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: class interests first and we're afraid of a leftist Spain, um.

742
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: But it really was just the upper classes. The working

743
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: classes were like, no fuck fascism and socialism and anarchism,

744
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: communism and all that other ship. And so there's huge

745
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: demonstrations in France, for example, advocating for the French to

746
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 1: sell arms the Spanish Republic. But huge demonstrations don't always

747
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: do anything. And so the Republic is fighting with what

748
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: one volunteer called museum relics. They have like World War

749
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: One rifles and obsolete machine guns, and the fascists were

750
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: fighting with modern ship. Okay. And when Franco comes, he

751
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 1: comes as a conqueror. He's cut his teeth in colonial

752
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: conquest in Africa, and it was his colonial army that

753
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: he invaded with, and he had with him tens of thousands.

754
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: I've read thirty thousand, and I've read seventy eight thousand

755
00:41:54,200 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: Moroccan troops, mostly Muslim. God. Okay, so the Republic, so

756
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: Franco absolutely racializes this, and he's like, he refers to

757
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: them as savages, and he basically is like using the

758
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: fear of the other against the Republic. The Republic itself

759
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: sometimes played into this and sometimes didn't. It's like sometimes

760
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: they would like, we must stop these invading savage hordes.

761
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: Um the anarchist didn't say that kind of ship. Fortunately,

762
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 1: at least as far as like I or the people

763
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: I talked to were able to find. But it's a

764
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: part that gets left out of a lot of the

765
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: conversations about the Spanish Civil War because no one quite

766
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: wants to admit that a huge chunk of the people

767
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: fighting for the right wing were the troops who were

768
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: recruited in a colonial state, the colonial state of Morocco.

769
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: Thank you for clarifying that, though, because I do feel

770
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: like that is like, I mean, it's you know, not

771
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: like not too surprising to hear that there were people

772
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: on the left who played into colonialism, but we're also

773
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: like politically aligned in a way that like holds up

774
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: in the modern sense. And it's just that's incredibly dark

775
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: and messy, and yeah, I'm glad that that like distinction

776
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: is made because sometimes it's i don't know it conflicts

777
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: like this. You're like, oh, well, yeah, the good is

778
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: sometimes bad. Yeah, totally totally, And there's a lot of

779
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: that's that happens in this warm um so so Franco side.

780
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: In history books, they either get called the fascists or

781
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: more often they get called the nationalists. But they did

782
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: not call themselves nationalists. They called themselves nationals, which is like,

783
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: instead of calling themselves the Spanish patriots, they were calling

784
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: themselves the Spanish people. You know, It's like their name

785
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: was the Spaniards. Basically, they're the nationals and because all

786
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: of their enemies are race traders and Jews and not

787
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: real Spaniards from their point of view. Um. During the

788
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: lead up to the conflict, again this will be totally

789
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: unfamiliar to the modern audience, the fascist spread propaganda complaining

790
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: about uh Judeo Lshevik Mason's um. They were complaining about

791
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: a secret society Jewish communist conspiracy, which basically means Q

792
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: and On fucking invaded Spain, which is you know, an

793
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: interesting visual, an interesting visual. God, I'm still stuck on.

794
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: Forcing colonialized Moroccans to participate is just like so, I mean,

795
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: and it happens a million times throughout history, but it's

796
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: just like so upsetting to be reminded of that's yeah,

797
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: and Q and On to have to fight alongside I know, mhm, yeah,

798
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: I I like, I thought really hard about I was like,

799
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's stuff about race that doesn't get

800
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: talked about enough with the Spanish Civil War, and I'm

801
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: going to try and touch on it where I can,

802
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: but a lot of it is sort of like kind

803
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 1: of beyond my, h my level of knowledge. Um yeah,

804
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 1: I mean I I don't have, you know, extensive knowledge

805
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: on that end, either, but it's I do, yeah, I

806
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: do feel like any time, any like when sometimes when

807
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: war is discussed, the levels of colonial participation and like

808
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: how colonialism affects major um military units is like not

809
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: even addressed, and then you have to like seek out

810
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: information on your own. And of course it's always the

811
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: worst possible thing you could imagine, and I wish I

812
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: was like more standardized and how we talk about wars anyways. No,

813
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's like, because everyone is when they're

814
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: trying to write, when they're claiming to write neutral history,

815
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: everyone's writing propaganda for one side or the other or

816
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: some complicated mix or whatever. And and that's like one

817
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: of the reasons that I'm so upfront about my biases.

818
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: But then I try to undercut it because it's like

819
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 1: I have to dig to find context about they launched

820
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: the invasion from Morocco, and yet I have to dig

821
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: defined information about how the colonization ties into it, you know,

822
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: which is so like absurd and intentional and like, yeah,

823
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: so the Republic is not without allies, although they're largely

824
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: without allies. There two allies are Mexico, who's offering them

825
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: money and diplomatic help, like they do a lot of

826
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: the diplomacy stuff that happens. And then the USSR and

827
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: the U s s R is their main military ally,

828
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: but they're not actually sending stuff for free. Basically, the

829
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: Republic transfers almost all of their gold reserves to the

830
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: Soviet Union and basically buy guns and tanks and ship

831
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: in advance, and they get some modern stuff and some

832
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: like really old, terrible stuff, and the a few troops

833
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: as well came to help, but nothing compared to like

834
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 1: like Germany was pretty openly practicing how do we bomb

835
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: a city into oblivion by going to Spain and and

836
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: practicing it. And that's where Picasso's Guernica comes from. Okay, okay,

837
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: So just like this twisted dress rehearsal situation totally. So

838
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: the USSR donates stuff and it comes with a very

839
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: heavy price that I'll get into more in a little bit.

840
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: But it was the politically motivated working class, and in

841
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 1: particular like rank and file communists of other countries who

842
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: come through for the Republic. The famed International Brigade, which

843
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 1: was mostly communist running, was the biggest chunk of the volunteers.

844
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: Plus a ton of people coming from outside that framework

845
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: who come and join the militias, and they're they're generally

846
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: organized by language group in nationality, so you like show

847
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: up and join like the French speaking chunk and go

848
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: off and fight the fascists or you know, there's a

849
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: lot of people coming from all over the place in

850
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: really kind of beautiful ways. The the US force was

851
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: called the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and it was three thousands strong,

852
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: and there was white troops and black troops intermingled in

853
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: the same units. And this is the is called the

854
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: first time US soldiers fought in mixed units. Although actually

855
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: another episode that I'm researching right now about the Battle

856
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: of Blair Mountain had on a kind of smaller scale,

857
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: had also black and white mixed troops. Um. Interesting, but

858
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: this is still dea decades before the U. S. Army

859
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: integrates its units. Sure, and Oliver Law is a black

860
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: communist from the US and he's the first African American

861
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: to lead white U. S troops at a higher level

862
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: of command. First season charge I know, right, um, the

863
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: first season charge of the machine Gun Company, and then

864
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 1: later he's in charge of the entire Abraham Lincoln Brigade.

865
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: Although he's killed during the fighting at a place called

866
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: Mosquito Ridge, which is a terrible name. I was like,

867
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: not not not on the same caliber of name as

868
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: Oliver Law. Yeah, Mosquito Ridge, God, I know what a

869
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: place to die. I know that sounds like the worst

870
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: preschool ever. It's preschool Hunger Games, a militarized preschool. Welcome

871
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: to Mosquito Ridge and it's just the baby month that's

872
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: killing each other. Yeah. Uh so, so exiled Jews who

873
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: are leaving Nazi occupied areas fought in the brigades as well,

874
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: which of course the fascists made a big stink about.

875
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: And almost a third of the U S volunteers were

876
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: also Jewish. So basically, like the international working class was like,

877
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: this is a big fucking deal. This is not just

878
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 1: about Spain. This is about we need to stop fascism,

879
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: we need to stop racism, we need to stop all

880
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: of these things. And like it's kind of like everybody's

881
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: proxy war except for the Western democracies who are like,

882
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: well we don't we don't know, we don't know these

883
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: guys again, none nothing you can relate with. Now, that's that.

884
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: So there, so there was like an awareness that solidarity

885
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: was necessary, um like selfishly and and selfishly a little

886
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: bit on that front, right yeah, okay, um, And so

887
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: I had to figure out how to shoehorn and irish

888
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: the Irish and to hear somehow and here's what I'm

889
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: gonna do, my people, thank you. Yeah. So, so the

890
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: Irish volunteers come to Spain too, But the thing is, um,

891
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: more than twice as many of them come to join

892
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: the wrong side. No, but but okay, and so they

893
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: come in and joined the nationalists And what year is

894
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: this be my family? Yeah? Well, and it's because the

895
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: Catholic Church is under attack. From their point of view,

896
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: the war wasn't being presented like now most of the

897
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: time you'll see it as democracy versus fascism, because it was,

898
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,919
Speaker 1: but it also got presented as communism versus Catholicism, which,

899
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: to be clear, it also was. You know, so less

900
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: than four hundred Irish volunteers fight for the Republic, mostly communists,

901
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: and then seven hundred fight for the fascists. But here's

902
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: where it gets better. The fascist Irish sucked at fighting.

903
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: They were good, so awful that it rules. They showed up,

904
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: they accidentally fired on other fascists and killed a bunch

905
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: of fascists, and then they were just so drunken unruly

906
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: that everyone just refused to take them into their like command,

907
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: and then they got sent home. That's real fun, that

908
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: is I mean, that sounds like a mean story someone

909
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: would tell about Irish people to humiliate them, but in

910
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: this case they simply just did it. Yeah. Well, well, well, um,

911
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, at least this time generational alcoholism. Um one

912
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: in a way, and they were just sent home. They're

913
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: just like, you're not a valuable addition. Yeah, because yeah, yeah,

914
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 1: I'm proud to say that we were terrible at being fascists.

915
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: You were too drunk to be effective fascists. And that

916
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: is beautiful, that is really funny. But the but but

917
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: but the other side, they weren't sent home, or was

918
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: everybody sent home? Just the fascist Irish wars sent you know,

919
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: the other side. The Irish stated thought they shot in

920
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: the right direction. Yeah, which actually means that both sides

921
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: came and shot fascists. It's just once came intending to

922
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: shoot fascists and one side came. So sorry, fellow fascist.

923
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: M hilarious, great love it. Ten out of ten. Thanks,

924
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: And here's where I should have a clever ad break transition,

925
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: but I don't have one. So instead here's the Oh wait,

926
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: Sophie has one. I was gonna say, do you know

927
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: what else is ten out of ten? Jamie's neighbor's lemon tree.

928
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: Oh that's true. And I hear she's advertising with us, Yeah,

929
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: and all of the other sponsors of this show. But

930
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: you can listen to now and we are back and

931
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the weirdest part of the

932
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: whole thing. Oh wait, we haven't gotten to the weirdest

933
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: part yet. No, no, because we haven't gotten to the

934
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: anarchists and government. Okay, Margaret acted. Anarchists and government. What Yeah,

935
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: that's the title of the section in the script. So

936
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: on the fourth of September ninety six, this kind of

937
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: moderate socialist, Francisco Largo Caballero, was appointed Prime Minister pretty

938
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 1: much to run the war effort. He had been leader

939
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: of the socialist union the U g T, which is

940
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: smaller than the CNT, but it was still very notable union,

941
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: and after three months, on December four, he managed to

942
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: convince the C and T to let him appoint four

943
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: of them as ministers into the government. I think basically

944
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: because he genuinely believed in the Popular Front thing that

945
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: everyone should work together, and or that he was trying

946
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 1: to bring the anarchist to heal so that they play

947
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 1: ball with the rest of the left and coordinate when

948
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: the war against the fascists, which don't actually have to

949
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: be opposing thoughts for him, you know, sure, this is controversial.

950
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: Anarchists joining the government. It was controversial with everyone. The

951
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: Soviet aligned folks did not like it. The Western democracies

952
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: did not like it. The rank and file anarchists did

953
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 1: not like it. You wouldn't think so. Uh. One scholar

954
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: I talked to referred to it as sort of a

955
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: generation war with within the anarchists. The older anarchists were

956
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: more all right with this. They were like, look, whatever

957
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: it takes to get this ship done. Uh. And the

958
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: younger ones, we know what the fuck I do. Like

959
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: when someone manages to come up with an idea that

960
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: pisses everybody off, no matter what their police system, it's

961
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: a rare. It's I feel like, it's almost kind of

962
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: really hard to do. But anarchists joining government definitely falls

963
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: into that. Even some of the anarchists who joined the

964
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: government were also piste off about it. Um two of them,

965
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: because two of the people who join are sort of

966
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: moderate and two of them are way more radical, and

967
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: they end up the ministers of Commerce, Industry, health and

968
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,879
Speaker 1: Justice in Spain. So so I'm gonna tell you about them. So.

969
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: Jowan Piero was a glassmaker who spent his whole life

970
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: working in a cooperatively run glass factory in Catalonia, which

971
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: is actually a co op that survived until two thousand

972
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: and eight, but Joan he did not survive as long,

973
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 1: so it's a long time. Yeah. As Minister of Industry,

974
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: he tried to pass a resolution to collectivize all of

975
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: the industry in Spain, since that was the anarchist goal,

976
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: but the law got rewritten over and over again by

977
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: the rest of the government until it was basically meaningless,

978
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,959
Speaker 1: which is pretty much they did better rather than working

979
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: the government to collectivised. They did much better when they

980
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: like showed up with guns and said we're taking over

981
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: the factory because we're the people who work here. But

982
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,280
Speaker 1: he puts a lot of finance towards cooperative industry, especially

983
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: anything related to war production. And then because of this,

984
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: I think he gets demoted to Commissioner of electricity, and

985
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: then he flees the country when the country falls to fascism,

986
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: and then he's captured by fucking Nazis in France, went

987
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: back to Spain and xcuted by Franco bo Okay, yikes, Okay.

988
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: So Juan Lopez Sanchez was an anarchist construction worker, and

989
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: like Joan, he was kind of a moderate. He was

990
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: less super excited about anarchism and were excited about trade

991
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: unionism and his balance between the two. He but he

992
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: did do six years in jail for fighting for anarchy

993
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: from twenty six, which is longer than I've ever been

994
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: in jail fighting for anarchy, So I'm not going to

995
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: cast the first stone about that. Sure, he he winds

996
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: up the Minister of Commerce, but then when Franco takes over,

997
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: he fucks off for a couple of decades and then

998
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: he comes back and he's no longer an anarchist and

999
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: he talked it on the CNT and he gets really

1000
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: into this weird version of syndicalism as fascistic. So actually,

1001
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: funck this guy, and I will be the first to

1002
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: cast stones. Actually many people probably cost stones. Had what

1003
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: a journey, Yeah, I know. So then you have another

1004
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: Joan Joan Garcia y Oliver. He gets called alternatively, uh

1005
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: Joan or Juan, but Joan is the Catalan name, and

1006
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: he was Catalan, so I'm gonna go with up anyway.

1007
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: He was born super fucking poor. His mom worked quote

1008
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 1: on the street, which is probably euthanism for sex work.

1009
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: I wish people would stop being so shitty to sex workers.

1010
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: And act like it's especially shameful, Like why am I

1011
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: reading anarchist history where it's like this guy step three

1012
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: bosses and chucked a bomb into a crowd of rich people,

1013
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: but they're like too afraid to say like this lady

1014
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: fun dudes first, like tiptoeing around skating sex work like yeah, yeah,

1015
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: people are babies. Yeah. So he works in a bag

1016
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: factory since he was eleven. He became an anarchist the

1017
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: age of eighteen and nineteen nineteen nine, but by two

1018
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: he's part of an anarchist gorilla group called fucking Crucible, uh,

1019
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: which also had this boring name of Solidarity, but they

1020
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: had Crucible as one of their names, and that's the

1021
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: better name, so I'm using it. Yeah, let's go. And

1022
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: there's at least four women in this like guerrilla gang

1023
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: of anarchists. And these were the people doing the This

1024
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: is the equivalent of the people who are like rolling

1025
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: around three on a motorcycle. You know. Um, they're into

1026
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: the retaliatory assassination game against the bosses and they were good.

1027
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So Juan claims that they were the best

1028
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: working class terrorists. That's his claim, and in another a

1029
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: good band name a good day, yeah, which is actually

1030
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: that breaks my rule usually when people say that's a

1031
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: good band name, it actually is a terrible band name.

1032
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: But I would totally listen to a band called Working

1033
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: Class Terrorists. I also would. Yeah. Um, in the early ties,

1034
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: they kill a fucking cardinal, which is the rank just

1035
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: below Pope because he'd been hiring pistoleros to kill anarchists.

1036
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: Had they pulled that one off, I don't know. I

1037
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: want to know more about it. Um. And then after

1038
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: he kills the cardinal, this is like thees, he fox

1039
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: off to France and then he plots to kill both

1040
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: the Spanish king and Mussolini. But I think the plan

1041
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: never got very far because I haven't found but I

1042
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: haven't found the details. So he crosses back over to Catalonia.

1043
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: He gets arrested, he gets released with all the other

1044
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: politic prisoners, one a different time that all the political

1045
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: prisoners get released, and so you know, and then he

1046
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: lives a nice quiet life. Just kidding, Okay. So he

1047
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: tries twice to overthrow the Second Republic with the rest

1048
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: of the CNT. He's thrown in jail both times. Once again,

1049
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: he's released when they arrest when they release all the

1050
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: anarchist prisoners. He also invented, probably invented the red and

1051
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: black flag, which is the black flag with like it's

1052
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: like a triangle of red and a triangle of black.

1053
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: It's kind of the Yeah, it's like the main anarchist

1054
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: flag besides a black flag. Yeah. And when the war

1055
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: breaks out, he helps organize militias. He joins one and

1056
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: he marches the front to shoot fascists. And then he

1057
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: becomes the Minister of Justice. And as the Minister of

1058
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: Justice he ends court fees and then destroys criminal records. Um, okay, okay,

1059
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: I'm on board. Yeah. And then after the war he

1060
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: goes into exile in Mexico, and I think he actually

1061
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: does live quietly after that, but I'm not sure. Oh,

1062
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: and finally, you've got I like doing my list of characters,

1063
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: Like even though these are these are some of the

1064
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: more complicated characters. But Frederica Montseiny, she's the Minister of Health.

1065
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: She's also the first woman minister in Spanish history. M

1066
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: and I first ran across her when I was researching

1067
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: anarchist fiction back in the day. Because she was a

1068
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: second generation anarchist. Her parents ran a bunch of periodicals,

1069
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: including fiction periodicals, and so she wrote books as a teenager.

1070
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,919
Speaker 1: She just like wrote novels that her parents published. That's

1071
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: so cool. And then she married an anarchist who was

1072
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: sellmates with her dad, which I don't know, it just

1073
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: seems weird to me, but maybe that's totally a normal

1074
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: thing to do. I'm going to go out on a

1075
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: limb and call me. You know, listeners, feel free to

1076
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: call me closed minded and evil. I think that that's

1077
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: maybe weird. Yeah, I'm gonna bravely say that's weird. Yeah,

1078
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: and maybe you know, I mean, who knows, Like maybe

1079
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: the fact I don't whatever. Anyway, I mean, if your

1080
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: dad happens to be salmates with your sal mate, that's now,

1081
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: that's just a rom com. So totally. Yeah, it's a

1082
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: rom comp with the anarchists on motorcycles. That's okay. I'm

1083
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: coming around to the idea. Okay. Cool. So as Minister

1084
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: of Health, she vehemently did not want to be Minister

1085
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: of Health, but basically the rest of the CNT was like,

1086
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: we really actually need to do this, So she agrees,

1087
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: and so um, she's made Minister of Health and she

1088
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: legalizes abortion and in December n six. It's the same

1089
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: year that Stalin criminalized abortion in the USSR, which means

1090
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: that when she legalizes abortion, Spain becomes the only country

1091
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: in the Western world with legal abortion, which I'm like

1092
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: kind of like proud of that one, you know, that's

1093
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: really cool. Yeah, I mean, that's like incredible. Yeah. She

1094
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: also sets up educational facilities for women and onlike previous

1095
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,439
Speaker 1: ventures that the government had been setting up. She lets

1096
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: in unmarried women and sex workers into the educational facilities.

1097
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: She also helps get orphans and other kids the funk

1098
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: to France and out of Spain as the fascist like

1099
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: slowly taking over, and then when the war goes badly

1100
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: and it's all over, she she foks off to France herself.

1101
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: At first, she's turned away from the border with like

1102
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: all the other starving refugees, but then someone recognized her

1103
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: and she's like important with a capital I, so they

1104
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: like led her across the border and she stays rad

1105
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: She works on organizing anarchist in France. She tries to

1106
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: start secret anarchist groups and fascist Spain all that kind

1107
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 1: of ship. There's one other anarchist politician to talk about.

1108
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: This is just so weird to me that, Like, I'm like,

1109
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: it's a fascinating every time I hear the phrase, it

1110
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: like pins your brain as no no yeah, uh yeah,

1111
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: and it is sort of no no, I mean, but whatever,

1112
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: it's yeah sure, Okay. So the mayor of Madrid is

1113
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: also the director of prisons. It's an anarchist. So now

1114
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: that it's like a triple neck, you know. And so

1115
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, how the fund does this happen? And the

1116
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 1: answer is kind of in Tristan, Okay, he um Melchor

1117
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: Rodriguez Garcia. He was a former prisoner and he was

1118
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: a prison rights activist and and basically what he does

1119
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 1: when he's a director of prisons in Madrid is he

1120
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: stops people from lynching the prisoners because there's this revolution

1121
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: happening and also this war happening, and so there's all

1122
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: of these nationalists and fascist and right wing prisoners and

1123
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: everyone's like, we're gonna go kill them, and he's like,

1124
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: you can't. There are prisoners. We actually have to treat them. Okay,

1125
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: they're prisoners of war whatever. And so weirdly, that's the

1126
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: way that you become the anarchist director of prisons is

1127
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: that you defend the prisoners. That's always such an absolute

1128
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: mind funk because it's so rare, Like I feel like

1129
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: changing the system from the inside is a dog whistle

1130
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: that's so frequently weaponized that when there is an example

1131
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: of it, you're like that, what, what's the catch? What

1132
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: is there? A catch there? Actually kind of isn't with him,

1133
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: But I think the catches that none of this would

1134
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: have worked if it wasn't happening at the same time

1135
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: as a revolution and a war. Um, maybe without the

1136
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: ward better without the war. But like if like someone

1137
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: just became the director of prisons to defend the prisoners,

1138
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: it wouldn't work. It would only work in this like

1139
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: larger contexts pushed for collectivization. Like that's I mean, that's

1140
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: my opinion about it. I you know, that makes sense.

1141
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: But um, And the other thing that he did, which

1142
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 1: I think is really cool, is that the Soviets the

1143
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: Communists were running these illegal secret prisons and they were

1144
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 1: like torturing everyone, including other leftists, and doing all this

1145
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: terrible stuff I'm gonna get to in a minute. And

1146
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: he worked to uncover and reveal the secret prisons. So

1147
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: he was like this anti prison guy who also ran

1148
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: prisons and it's fucking messy. Um. And the reason he

1149
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: was the mayor I believe, I'm not I'm less versed

1150
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: in this guy than some of the other people. I

1151
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: found him, like right near the end of my research,

1152
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: I was like, what the fuck? And I think he's

1153
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: the mayor because everyone else fucks off and he's like, well,

1154
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: someone's kind of stick around, like until the bitter end,

1155
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: and so he sticks around to the bitter end. So

1156
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: he's actually I think the person who hands over like

1157
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: coordinates the surrender to Franco fascinating. And during then he's

1158
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: put on trial, of course, because the fascists take over

1159
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: and he's put on trial, and during his sentencing, a

1160
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: bunch of fascists, including this like high up general, I say,

1161
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: this is the guy who kept people from killing me.

1162
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: So he gets a lighter sentence. They instead of sends

1163
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: him to death, he gets like four years, so he's

1164
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: like honored by the fascists. I was like, this is like,

1165
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: this is giving me a migraine. I know, I know,

1166
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: I have no idea how I feel about any of this.

1167
01:05:51,520 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: I want okay, h sure, sure, sure. So anyway, anarchists

1168
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 1: and government is propagandized heavily by the moderate left in

1169
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: the Stalinists to be like, we've got to do something

1170
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 1: about these fucking anarchists, and they want to use it

1171
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: to let the Communists take over, basically because the Communists

1172
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: didn't want a social revolution because the Spanish Civil War

1173
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: is so weird, all right, almost done breaking your head

1174
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: with this. I think Stalin is like, we have a

1175
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 1: delicate balance of power and the time is not right

1176
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 1: for Spain to have a revolution, so I'm not going

1177
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: to let them do it, because they didn't want to

1178
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: alienate France and England in the US by seeming too radical. Um,

1179
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: And so the communists kept trying to convince the anarchists

1180
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 1: like to accept a quote controlled democracy, which was a

1181
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: euphemism for dictatorship, like a leftist dictatorship. So a lot

1182
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: of people are really happy this revolution, right, there's like

1183
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: seven eight million people involved in the revolution, and all

1184
01:06:58,160 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: these people are like suddenly in charge of their own lives.

1185
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: They're overall pretty stoked, and and they're pulling it off

1186
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: like they're fighting a war and having a revolution. But

1187
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: then there's a lot of people who really aren't happy

1188
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: that both of these things are happening at once. Some

1189
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 1: of them o post collectivization on principle, some are afraid

1190
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: that they're going to alienate their allies, and some are

1191
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: just jealous that the anarchists are doing it instead of them,

1192
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: which I think is Stalin's thing. I think Stalin was

1193
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: just jealous, but I don't know. So, but what Stalin wants,

1194
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: Stalin gets because he's the only one giving them guns

1195
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: and he has all their gold. M hmm. So what

1196
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: happens is huge chunks of the republic forces who are

1197
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: busy fighting fascists, turn their attention away from the war

1198
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: effort to go and fight against the revolution and decollective

1199
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: ized Spain. Oh here's where the story gets dark. I'm sorry. Okay,

1200
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: so we're on a roll. We're on a roll for

1201
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: a while there. I know. I think that's how they

1202
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: felt too. They were like not to channel how they

1203
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: may have felt. But okay, okay, Well they had a

1204
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: good run and they did. Yeah, they had a really

1205
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: good run. And so there's a telephone exchange in Barcelona

1206
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: and the anarchists run it. And the telephone exchange is

1207
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: like the old timey thing with a you know, a

1208
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: person's like listening to the phone call and connects you

1209
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 1: and like pushes wires around in a big board, you know.

1210
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 1: And so it's a very like secure job, right because

1211
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: you need to have someone you trust doing it, and

1212
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: it's a it's a very important position or whatever. And

1213
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: the communists in the Republic don't want the anarchists to

1214
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: be running anymore. So in seven they lay siege to

1215
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: the building. Well they try to just take over, and

1216
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: then the anarchists are like fuck you, and they like

1217
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: lock the doors and there's a siege. Fighting breaks out

1218
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: all over Barcelona in a conflict that called gets called

1219
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: may Days, and in like a week, five dred to

1220
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: a thousand people are dead. God of like literal in

1221
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: fighting between um not actually just the anarchist I'm gonna

1222
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: get to them in a second. Some of the I'll

1223
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: get to in a second. And it mostly ended because

1224
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 1: the anarchist ministers encouraged the anarchists to put down their

1225
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: guns and seek a truce. So the anarchists actually were

1226
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 1: the ones being like, we can't do this in fighting anymore.

1227
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 1: We need to stop, okay. Um. Federica Montseny, the woman

1228
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: of the Minister of Health. She drives around Barcelona and

1229
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 1: personally is telling people please stop fighting. I really don't

1230
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:31,440
Speaker 1: know how I feel about this, and neither did the anarchists.

1231
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 1: You know, um, the communists didn't have mixed feelings. What

1232
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 1: they did is tried to assassinate her. On May six seven,

1233
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 1: they shot into her car, wounding two of the people

1234
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: in her car. She escaped unharmed. Okay, And at this

1235
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: point in my mind, basically it's like they're losing the

1236
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: war because they're losing what they're fighting for. You know.

1237
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: So the socialist prime Minister and the anarchists are forced

1238
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 1: out of government, and the communists kind of step in.

1239
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: Some people refer to neg and the new prime Minister

1240
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: as a dictator. Other people don't. And they go and

1241
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: they actively dismantle the cooperative setup that have been set

1242
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 1: up over the past year, and the C and T

1243
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 1: leadership lets it happen, and it's like, we just gotta

1244
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: let this happen because the only thing that matters is

1245
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,520
Speaker 1: keeping the militias fighting out the front lines against fascism.

1246
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: The rank and file are fucking pissed about it. They

1247
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: arrest anarchists, they pillage collective storehouses, they smash up furniture,

1248
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 1: even though like governor of Aragon is like, you can't

1249
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: do this, stop force decollectivizing um, But it wasn't a

1250
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 1: law and order thing, so they just defy him. You know.

1251
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 1: Authoritarians always are like, oh, we're doing it for law

1252
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: and order, but they know they're just breaking the law. Yeah. Yeah,

1253
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: as always it is the opposite. Yeah, they arrest six

1254
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,640
Speaker 1: D organizers of collectives. They take the land that have

1255
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: been collectivized and give it back to the landowners, who

1256
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 1: are almost all fascists in that like they are on

1257
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:02,639
Speaker 1: the fascist side of the war. Shocked. Yeah. They even

1258
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: take the animals that the like collectives have raised themselves

1259
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 1: and give them back quote to the fascists. And they

1260
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 1: someplaces they stole the seedstocks from the collective forms. I mean,

1261
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 1: it's that's that's just getting petty, Oh my god. And

1262
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 1: so they decollectivized about of the collectives and Arragon. And

1263
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 1: they also are like running around like Bandit style, robbing

1264
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: food deliveries and the only robbing food deliveries from the

1265
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: collectives to sort of make the collectives less efficient. Now

1266
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you about the other people who are

1267
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 1: anarchists were on the sort of right side of all

1268
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: of us from my point of view. The POOM, the

1269
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: po U M and they're most famous because two Brits,

1270
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 1: Eric and Eileen Blair, Eric Blair being more famous as

1271
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 1: George Orwell, the name he wrote under, are fighting in

1272
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: the Pum at the time that this happens. So the

1273
01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:02,480
Speaker 1: pumare Marxists and everyone and the Soviets fucking hate him

1274
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 1: because they're not Bolsheviks. They get called Trotskyists because everyone

1275
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 1: who's not Bolshevik gets called a Trotskyist. At this time,

1276
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: they didn't actually follow Trotsky. It's just like a weird pejorative. Yeah,

1277
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: it's like, you don't like Stalin, you must be a Trotskyist,

1278
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 1: even though like Trotsky. When they formed the POM, the

1279
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 1: leader who formed the poem was friends with Lennon and

1280
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: Trotsky and he was like and Troutsky was like, don't, don't,

1281
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 1: don't do that, and he was like, I'm going to

1282
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: do it anyway, And then they get called Trotskyists anyway.

1283
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 1: So so Orwell isn't the POM and he's off fighting

1284
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: fascists and he gets shot through the fucking neck by

1285
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 1: fascists and he wakes up in the hospital during the

1286
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:43,600
Speaker 1: May Days in Barcelona and he has to flee the

1287
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 1: country under a fake name because the Stalinists are trying

1288
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,879
Speaker 1: to get him because he was fighting alongside the pom

1289
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: what's the name he uses? Oh, I don't know. Oh

1290
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: my god, I thought that you were like, no, no,

1291
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:58,759
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish I Oh, that would be amazing

1292
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 1: if that's how he got his Yeah, okay, well rewrite history.

1293
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: My head was about to explode. Okay, all right, but

1294
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 1: he uses it different. So he has many suit in Yeah,

1295
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he basically just like they're out to get him,

1296
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 1: and he's like fucking him and his wife flee and

1297
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: they had actually been spying on him, and eventually they

1298
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: uncovered all these documents that like him and especially his

1299
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 1: wife Eileen, were being inspied upon by the Stalinists. And

1300
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: he wasn't even a Marxist. He had joined the Marxists.

1301
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: He actually said that if he had did it over again,

1302
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 1: he would have joined the anarchists. But he joined the

1303
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 1: Marxist because he didn't like the state Communists and he

1304
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: wanted to throw grenades as fascist, so he went and

1305
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 1: did it, you know, I mean sure, a relatable impulse. Yeah,

1306
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: so his him his quote about all of this in

1307
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 1: his memoir Homage to Catalonia. Except for the small revolutionary

1308
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:43,600
Speaker 1: groups which exist in all countries, the whole world was

1309
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 1: determined upon preventing revolution. In Spain, in particular, the Communist Party,

1310
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 1: with Soviet Russia behind it, had thrown its whole weight

1311
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: against the revolution. It was the Communist thesis that revolution

1312
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,600
Speaker 1: at this stage would be fatal, and that what was

1313
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 1: to be aimed at in Spain was not workers control

1314
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:01,719
Speaker 1: but bourgeois democracy. It really needs pointing out why liberal

1315
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: capitalist opinion took the same line. Well, uh, it's again,

1316
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: I have no personal framework for that sort of mentality,

1317
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 1: so I guess I'll just have to take his word

1318
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 1: for it. Okay. So, the one of the founders of

1319
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: the poem is this guy named Andrea nin and the

1320
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: Soviets disappear him. They just like fucking kidnap him, and

1321
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 1: then basically they want him to confess to being a

1322
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: fascist so that they can justify all of these attacks.

1323
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 1: So they torture him to try and get him to

1324
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: say that he's a fascist, but he won't break, so

1325
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: they literally flay him alive. And then he dies after

1326
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:44,919
Speaker 1: they torture him to death. Oh my god. And graffiti

1327
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: goes up everywhere all over Republican held portions of Spain

1328
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: and say where is nin um. Stalinists also work the

1329
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: economic front against the revolution. They try to undermine collective

1330
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 1: industry everywhere they go, like they'll do ship like start

1331
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:01,600
Speaker 1: a collective and be like, hey, we'll make all the

1332
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: ball bearings and then not make the ball bearings, like

1333
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: just like petty ship, classic prank, I know, And so

1334
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: then the tramps can't move, and so then they can't

1335
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 1: get the munitions to the front to fight the fascists.

1336
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 1: And they would refuse or delay any deliveries to any

1337
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 1: of the anarchists run industry. They would refuse to arm

1338
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 1: the militias until the militias like gave up being militias

1339
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: and joined the regular army. And eventually the militias did.

1340
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 1: The militias were like, all right, you fucking win, will

1341
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:31,599
Speaker 1: join the regular army because the main thing we care

1342
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: about is defeating fascism. And and there's one other group

1343
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 1: besides the anarchists and the Marxists that I want to

1344
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: point out that the Stalinists betrayed and that group is

1345
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 1: the Stalinists. Margaret, Sorry, I need to go bastards on

1346
01:15:53,479 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: this when when you say that, you're saying what exactly?

1347
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: So Okay, at one point in Madrid, the capital, it's

1348
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: under siege most of the war because the fascists wanted

1349
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: and it's not in a good position, it's not in

1350
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 1: the center of strength for the republic. So actually I

1351
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: think it wasn't the capital during the time. I think

1352
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 1: they moved the capital, but I don't remember. So it

1353
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 1: was saved by the International Brigades at one point, which

1354
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,599
Speaker 1: was led Bias, and the International Brigades were unfortunately used

1355
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 1: kind of his cannon fodder and thrown at the front.

1356
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 1: Like but I'll get to that. But a Soviet general

1357
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:37,879
Speaker 1: named Manfred Stern was part of saving led the International

1358
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: Brigades to save the capital, and he was a die

1359
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 1: hard Bolshevik. He had fought in the Russian Revolution, He

1360
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: led spies in the US. He gone everywhere and done

1361
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 1: everything for the u SSR, including defend the city of Madrid,

1362
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: and he kept up morale. He got better weapons to troops,

1363
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,759
Speaker 1: and then Stalin got even more fucking paranoid and started

1364
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 1: purging the Red Army. So while the war is still happy,

1365
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: name Stern is recalled back to Russia, whereupon is not

1366
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 1: only stripped of his titles but his fucking name, and

1367
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 1: he sent nameless off to the goolog where he dies

1368
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: of exhaustion after more than a decade of suffering. Oh

1369
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 1: my god, there, Okay, the indignities are infinite in that. Okay, yeah,

1370
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 1: I you know the tricky thing with being on these

1371
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: shows and sometimes you're like, conversation wise, that's where I

1372
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: would put a joke and that's what I've been brought

1373
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: here to do. But sometimes you're just putting a real

1374
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 1: pickle and and you're do you that's that's I don't

1375
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: love it. That's no good. Sorry. They shouldn't have done

1376
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 1: that to him. No, no, no, no, I that is um,

1377
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 1: that's extremely Uh, that's extremely sad. I was. It's say

1378
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: because when we started talking about him, I was like,

1379
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: Manfred stan Stern, another great name, another great and I

1380
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: stand by that. Yeah, yeah, that's probably where they took

1381
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 1: it from him. Yeah, they were of a name. And

1382
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 1: so so I come at Stalin really hard in this because,

1383
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:23,680
Speaker 1: oh my god, fuck Stalin. But I don't want to

1384
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: deny the bravery of individual communists. We're fighting fascism in Spain.

1385
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: Most of the International Brigade we're communists. The anarchists actually

1386
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 1: told for an anarchists, stay at home, send us money

1387
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: and guns, but do ship at home. Mhm. Something like

1388
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: one third of the International volunteers died in Spain, which

1389
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 1: is unfathomably high. Yeah, that's surprising. Yeah. One report I

1390
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 1: saw claim that only seven percent of the original volunteers

1391
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:51,680
Speaker 1: returned home on the wounded. And it didn't help that

1392
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 1: the Soviets used them like shock troops and ken fodder

1393
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 1: at the shore. But so by nine after three years

1394
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 1: of fighting, it's all over. Franco take Spain. Everywhere he

1395
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: conquers atrocities follow their systemic rape and murder done in

1396
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 1: the name of quote cleaning the country. There's some specific,

1397
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 1: bad misogynist stuff that I'm not going to get into,

1398
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 1: but anyone who wants to confine out about and I've

1399
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 1: seen sources that claim anywhere from a twenty thousand to

1400
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:22,800
Speaker 1: four hundred thousand civilians were killed during the White Terror.

1401
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 1: Counting has made very hard because Franco was in charge

1402
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 1: for the next forty years and he didn't exactly work

1403
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: very hard to uncover all the evil society perpetuated. So

1404
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 1: that's actually work. That's happening now is people are digging

1405
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 1: up all the bodies, all the mass graves. In the end,

1406
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 1: the fascists killed more civilians than they killed enemy combatants,

1407
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: and the fascist overall they're like like funk anyone who

1408
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 1: targets civilians. But the fascists killed three to ten times

1409
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 1: more civilians depending on the sources. You look at half

1410
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: a million to a million people died in the war,

1411
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: more than half of the civilians. And Franco took power

1412
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 1: and held it to his death until But here's the

1413
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: weird sort of positive spin I came up with for it.

1414
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: One thing that happened. Yeah, thanks, I worked really hard

1415
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:13,679
Speaker 1: on this. Uh. Franco didn't join the Second World War,

1416
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 1: and one reason he didn't is that he was in

1417
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: no condition to His hold on Spain was not strong,

1418
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: his military had just had the fight of their lives.

1419
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: And it's just conjecture on my part, but it feels

1420
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:26,040
Speaker 1: like if he'd pulled off the coup he'd wanted to,

1421
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 1: the access Powers would have had a whole other fucking

1422
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 1: country on their side. And I don't I actually don't

1423
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: personally guess that would have tipped the scales enough to

1424
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: have the Access Powers win World War two, but it

1425
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 1: sure wouldn't have helped. So I'm not saying the anarchists

1426
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 1: one World War two, but you know, but they didn't not. Yeah,

1427
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,880
Speaker 1: and if fucking England and France had actually helped Spain

1428
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 1: or not actively hindered it, then the Republican and the

1429
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: Republic had pulled off a victory, the Allies would have

1430
01:20:56,040 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 1: had another country. The Spanish exiles. A ton of people

1431
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 1: fled Spain right, and they threw down hard in World

1432
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: War Two as partisans in France, mostly American volunteers who

1433
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,120
Speaker 1: tried to get back into the fight against fascism, got

1434
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: labeled with a pejorative by the government. They were called

1435
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 1: premature anti fascists. I'm gonna I'm gonna read you a

1436
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 1: quote about it, because there's this this guy, Bernard Knox,

1437
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 1: who's a classicist. He's mostly remembered for his like academic

1438
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 1: achievements about classic works of literature, but during World War

1439
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: Two he was like a paratrooper who worked behind enemy

1440
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: lines in France and Italy, coordinating with the partisans. And

1441
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: before that he fought in defense of Madrid and the

1442
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:40,600
Speaker 1: International Brigades. As he describes it, premature anti fascist was

1443
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 1: an FBI code word for communist. It was the label

1444
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: affixed to the dossiers of those Americans who fought in

1445
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: the Brigades when after Pearl Harbor and some of them

1446
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: before they enlisted in the U. S. Army. It was

1447
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,479
Speaker 1: the signal to assign them to non combat units or

1448
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:57,639
Speaker 1: inactive fronts and to deny them the promotions they deserved

1449
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 1: because the U. S was Hi, well you you were

1450
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,639
Speaker 1: against fascist, but but not when we were against fascists,

1451
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 1: So fuck you. So it means less when you're doing it.

1452
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:13,719
Speaker 1: And I love love a little exceptional as rhetoric thrown

1453
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 1: in as garnish, what a treat, jeez. It's always any

1454
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: time that there is like a bizarro relabeling like that done,

1455
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: it always sounds so fucking horrible too. Like you hear

1456
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: that phrase, You're like, what are you talking about? It's

1457
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: I guess like a lot of FBI coding be described

1458
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: as that, just embarrassing sounding. I know he has this

1459
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,760
Speaker 1: whole thing and it's like essay, he wrote about it,

1460
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 1: and then like I think eighties or something he wrote

1461
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: this essay about it was like premature anti fascist, Like,

1462
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 1: how do you be prematurely anti fascist? It's like being

1463
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:52,879
Speaker 1: prematurely anti racist. You're just always supposed to be against

1464
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 1: this right, Like it's a like it's a health risk.

1465
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 1: They like, well, you're prematurely anti fascist and if you

1466
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: keep doing what you're doing, the problem will worsen. You'll

1467
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 1: be a committed anti fascist. It's a little Yeah. It

1468
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:18,479
Speaker 1: sounds like a pediatrician being like, please don't smoke cigarettes. Yeah,

1469
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: um so so his story. In a brief version of

1470
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: his story, anarchist sailors bring him across to Spain. His

1471
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 1: small British contingent showed up. As his friend put it,

1472
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 1: and this is the quote in his this is actual

1473
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,639
Speaker 1: quote in my paraphrasing quote. They were there to quote

1474
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 1: set an example of training and discipline and shaving to

1475
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: the anarchist militias and shaving yeah yeah, which is so

1476
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 1: perfectly British that I love it and also means that

1477
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 1: I think he meant it like, you know, like comradilee.

1478
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:48,599
Speaker 1: You know, he was like ha ha ha, We'll go

1479
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 1: show them, you know, spend your Spanish anarchists how to

1480
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:54,760
Speaker 1: do the real fight and shave their whiskers. I can't

1481
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:58,200
Speaker 1: to a British accent. Don't even pretend like that. I

1482
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 1: can hear it. I can hear it. Yes, that's you know,

1483
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:06,839
Speaker 1: weird of them, but um, you know, not my business.

1484
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 1: And so he fights the defense of Madrid, and much

1485
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 1: like or well the other British volunteer who fights in

1486
01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:15,200
Speaker 1: the front, he gets shot through the neck by fascists,

1487
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 1: uh and survives. Interesting he's left for dead because they

1488
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 1: hit an artery and he's just bleeding arterial bleeding. His

1489
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 1: companions are like, we don't have any medical care and

1490
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: we gotta go, So they leave him, and then he

1491
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 1: comes to and then walks over and catches up with them,

1492
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 1: and they're all like, holy sh it. Uh sorry, I

1493
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: just picture what that would look like. Yeah, hey guys,

1494
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 1: wait up. Uh. So they said him home to England,

1495
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 1: and he's no longer a communist because he's like, he

1496
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: just sees all the betrayals coming out of the USSR

1497
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: and he doesn't become like a something elsist. He's just

1498
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:56,639
Speaker 1: not a communist anymore. And he's still an anti fascist.

1499
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 1: So he joins the fight for World War two and

1500
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 1: he warts to coordinate efforts with the partisans, and in

1501
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: Italy he meets these partisans and they're like, not sure

1502
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 1: they're going to trust the U. S. Troops. And he

1503
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 1: shows up and he's like, oh yeah, I was in

1504
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 1: Madrid and they were like fuck, yeah, you're our guy,

1505
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 1: and they like help him coordinate and help coordinate them,

1506
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 1: you know, war against miscellani. So I have one more

1507
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:22,920
Speaker 1: story about the lingering effects of the Spanish Civil War,

1508
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 1: and this one was related to me in person, and

1509
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:27,639
Speaker 1: so it was not citable and it is absolutely prone

1510
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 1: to the wanderings of the oral tradition. So please consider this,

1511
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:34,719
Speaker 1: dear listeners. A I love the oral tradition. A piece

1512
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 1: of oral tradition. So there's a place called the Institute

1513
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:41,520
Speaker 1: for Social History in Amsterdam. It's an archive that I um.

1514
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 1: It's where a lot of the I went there wants

1515
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:45,720
Speaker 1: to go look at anarchist fiction from the Spanish Civil War.

1516
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 1: And it was started ninety five by Dutch socialist who

1517
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:51,759
Speaker 1: during World War Two spent most of his time getting

1518
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 1: Jewish kids away from Nazis. And when I was in

1519
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: Amsterdam doing research at the Institute, my host told me

1520
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: this story. My host is not from the Institute, so

1521
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 1: again not trying to verify this a bunch of anarchists,

1522
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 1: librarians and archives. They're seeing the end of the war

1523
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 1: coming fast and so they start loading up train cars

1524
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:13,600
Speaker 1: with archival materials, just everything from the war, all of

1525
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,560
Speaker 1: the Republic and the revolution, all the newspapers, all the pamphlets,

1526
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:19,040
Speaker 1: everything that they can find to archives. They're like, we

1527
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:20,640
Speaker 1: gotta get this ship out of here. The fascists are

1528
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 1: going to destroy it. So they get the funk out

1529
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 1: on basically like the last train out of town. As

1530
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 1: the Fascist takeover. They go up to Amsterdam, they leave

1531
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 1: it at the Ish the Institute I I. S. H.

1532
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: And a couple of years later, right before the Nazi occupation,

1533
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:36,200
Speaker 1: archives get most of the Isshes collection over to England

1534
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 1: because the Nazis are invading there and they didn't bring

1535
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 1: it back to The Nazis are gone, so all the

1536
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:45,240
Speaker 1: Spanish Civil War stuff is up in Amsterdam. And then

1537
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: Franco Dice and these old krusty Spanish anarchists, they're like, funk,

1538
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,440
Speaker 1: all of our stuff is up in Amsterdam. So they

1539
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:56,640
Speaker 1: they grab rifles and they head on up to Amsterdam

1540
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: and they stormed the building and at know, I like

1541
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,360
Speaker 1: to imagine them in like little Spanish Civil war hats.

1542
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:04,280
Speaker 1: You should look up sometimes, the Spanish Civil War hats,

1543
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 1: the CNT hats. They're really cute, Okay. And so they

1544
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 1: run in with rifles which were antiquated back when they

1545
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:13,840
Speaker 1: were used forty years or you know, they were like

1546
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 1: they used their original rifles. I don't know about that part,

1547
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: but I liked what else they getting rifles? Out of

1548
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:22,559
Speaker 1: my mind they did, yeah, I imagine they didn't update

1549
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 1: the yeah, the rank. Yeah. And so they show up

1550
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 1: and they're like, give us our shipped back. And then

1551
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:30,479
Speaker 1: the archivist, because archives and librarians are the best people

1552
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 1: in the entire world. They're like, so the thing is,

1553
01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 1: your stuff is safe here and where we can take

1554
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:40,200
Speaker 1: care of it. But we'll show you how to use

1555
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:43,479
Speaker 1: the photo copiers and you can make copies of everything.

1556
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:47,720
Speaker 1: We're not taking it. It's okay. Yeah, And the old

1557
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: anarchist veterans are like, yes, show us how to use

1558
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 1: the photo copiers. Wait, this is going to be kind

1559
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,680
Speaker 1: of fogged up. This is a really sweet story, you know,

1560
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: it makes me really happy. Um. And then they head

1561
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: off back to Spain with their photo copies of their

1562
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:06,960
Speaker 1: old newspapers, and the originals are still held to this

1563
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: day by badest archivists, and you can go see them

1564
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 1: and research them. That is so awesome. Oh my god,

1565
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:17,519
Speaker 1: what a beautiful thank you for really saving a little

1566
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 1: golden nugget for the end. That is. I'm going to

1567
01:28:20,479 --> 01:28:23,599
Speaker 1: be thinking about that for weeks and months. That's awesome. Sure.

1568
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:26,799
Speaker 1: So that's that's the bird's eye view of the Spanish

1569
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:31,960
Speaker 1: Civil War, as best as I can tell it. I

1570
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 1: learned so much today. I only knew, um truly the

1571
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 1: most bullet pointy bullet points of the Spanish Civil War.

1572
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 1: I've learned so much. And I learned who a race

1573
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:48,559
Speaker 1: car is, whose name I've already forgot, Margaret. His name

1574
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 1: is Lightning McQueen. Now I was, I will say, my

1575
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:54,559
Speaker 1: mind wandered for just a second when we were recording

1576
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 1: the second episode, and I was like, where is Lightning

1577
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:03,440
Speaker 1: McQueen politically a lot mind? And I was kind of struggling,

1578
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 1: and then I realized, I knew in my heart that

1579
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:10,879
Speaker 1: some weirdo has written an essay about what the answer

1580
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 1: actually is, and so I'll send it to you and

1581
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 1: I find it. I would guess that Lightning McQueen and

1582
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:21,400
Speaker 1: I would have some gripes. I think, I think centrist,

1583
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, well, he's you know, he's a product

1584
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:27,639
Speaker 1: of the Disney But that doesn't mean he can't zoom

1585
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:33,360
Speaker 1: away because he's not a real he's a car centrist.

1586
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: In the Spanish Civil War, I don't know where they were, no, none,

1587
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:43,320
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, it was a very polarized situation. Well,

1588
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:45,640
Speaker 1: i'll get back to you on Lightning McQueen's politics. But

1589
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:50,680
Speaker 1: I truly learned so so much. I have like a

1590
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,559
Speaker 1: million names written down of that I want to go

1591
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 1: down an infinity rabbit hole about. And the fact that

1592
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:02,360
Speaker 1: your final story is strictly the rural tradition is even better.

1593
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: I don't if that story isn't true, I never want

1594
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:10,200
Speaker 1: to know any actual and accuracy. I don't care. That's

1595
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 1: how I feel. Also, all of my journalistic instincts I

1596
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 1: just flushed down the toilet. That story needs to be true.

1597
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 1: The folk tale. Yeah, and if you're listening and you

1598
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:24,960
Speaker 1: were one of those, it's probably too late for you

1599
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: to be one of those Spanish anarchists at this point.

1600
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 1: Never mind, But I mean, if if you if you

1601
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 1: can confirm it reach out if you can disprove it,

1602
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 1: die with that secret. Thank you. Yeah, Timmy pluggables for us. Yeah,

1603
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 1: if you, Uh, I want to listen to Ghost Church.

1604
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:48,639
Speaker 1: That's the new show I have coming out on cool

1605
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: Zone Media right now, produced by Sophie licked Derman and

1606
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 1: edited by Ian Johnson. It's a show about the American

1607
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:02,400
Speaker 1: spiritualist movement in the US. I thought it would be

1608
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:04,799
Speaker 1: when I sort of embarked on it. I was meeting

1609
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 1: new spiritualists who are also old spiritualists. I did research

1610
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:12,120
Speaker 1: in the history I sort of I'm working on an

1611
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 1: episode right now that's about Harry Houdini and Arthur Conan

1612
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: Doyle falling into decades long feud over whether you can

1613
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 1: talk to ghosts or not. UM. There's all sorts of

1614
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 1: wild ship to learn about. UM. I really enjoyed putting

1615
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: it together, and if you're remotely interested in industrial era

1616
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 1: uh US weirdness or ghostie ship and supernatural ship in general,

1617
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:43,360
Speaker 1: you should check it out. I highly recommend it. Thank you.

1618
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:48,680
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're listening. Yeah. Uh, Margaret, do you

1619
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 1: want to plug you up? Plug your book? I have

1620
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 1: a book coming out in September from a k Press

1621
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 1: that will be available for pre order in June, which

1622
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 1: is probably when you're listening to this episode or maybe

1623
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 1: you're listening to it far into the future. And the

1624
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 1: book is called We Won't Be Here Tomorrow. It comes

1625
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 1: out from a k Press. I think already said that part.

1626
01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 1: And you can also follow me on Twitter at Magpie

1627
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 1: kill Joy and you can follow me on Instagram at

1628
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 1: Margaret Killjoy. And that is the end of my plug ables. Sophie,

1629
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 1: where can people follow you on social media? Uh that

1630
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:25,640
Speaker 1: you can follow me at why Underscore? So if you

1631
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:30,800
Speaker 1: underscore why on Twitter and you can My handles have

1632
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:33,320
Speaker 1: too many underscores. I did not think this. Can follow

1633
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:38,480
Speaker 1: me on Instagram at Sophie Underscore Array Underscore of Underscore,

1634
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:43,519
Speaker 1: shy on Instagram. But it is worth it because my

1635
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:47,639
Speaker 1: dog is really cute. This is true. It is true. Anyways,

1636
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:49,880
Speaker 1: well we'll be We'll be back Monday. Was it was

1637
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 1: some more hope? I feel hopeful we did it. Mission accomplished.

1638
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1639
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,840
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. Or more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1640
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:07,840
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone Media dot com, or check

1641
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1642
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:12,560
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.