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Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on Deep Cover. Stephen Kaylish the gentleman's smuggler,

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Speaker 1: the guy who orchestrates every single detail of operations. He

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Speaker 1: gets arrested. Let's start walking away knowing something's up, and

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Speaker 1: I get about. I don't know a quartermall away, not

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Speaker 1: even that, and I'm surrounded by fete. Stephen was the

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Speaker 1: right hand man of the big Boss, the top guy,

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Speaker 1: the guy that Ned Timmins had yet defined. Ned's starr.

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Speaker 1: Informant Clinton Shine Anderson tells him that the syndicate's top

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Speaker 1: boss was a guy named Lee Rich. Not an outlaw

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Speaker 1: biker or a dive bar musician, but more like a

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Speaker 1: member of a fancy beach club with a sweet house

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Speaker 1: and a big yacht, and for the time being, mister

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Speaker 1: beach Club was hiding out down in the Cayman Islands.

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Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to Ned, Lee was rattled by Stephen's recent arrest.

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Speaker 1: He hadn't just lost a partner, He'd lost the entire

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Speaker 1: smuggling arm of his operation, and he wondered what if

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Speaker 1: Stevens started talking ratting him out. Lee was also worried

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Speaker 1: that the FEDS might be watching him or listening to

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Speaker 1: his phone. Calls. What he needed was a counter intelligence expert,

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Speaker 1: someone who could sweep his house for bugs reassure him

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Speaker 1: that he was safe. This created an opening for Ned.

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Speaker 1: He could travel down to the Cayman's with Shine, posing

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Speaker 1: as Ed Thomas, the badass biker, an ex military guy

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Speaker 1: with special knowledge of modern spycraft. He would also claim

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Speaker 1: to be Shine's cousin. That's right, cousin Ed. This would

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Speaker 1: be It's big moment, his chance to step in as

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Speaker 1: Lee's night and shining armor. But this plan wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: easy for Ned to pull off. You see, at the time,

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Speaker 1: the FBI typically didn't work internationally, and since the came

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Speaker 1: Ins was a British territory Scotland, yard had to be

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Speaker 1: looped in. While he waits around for the paperwork to clear,

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Speaker 1: Ned rushed to get everything in order. He obtained a

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Speaker 1: passport for Ed Thomas, he got debugging equipment and even

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Speaker 1: took a crash course on how to use it. We're

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Speaker 1: ready to go. We didn't get approval. I've got airline

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Speaker 1: tickets and it was the night before, about three o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the afternoon. The assistant Special Agent charge calls me

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Speaker 1: and he says they just ocayed the project. This is

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Speaker 1: like three o'clock and we're supposed to leave at seven

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Speaker 1: or eight the next morning. Great, I'm psyched we're gonna go.

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Speaker 1: So I go out to check on Shine. He's drunk

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Speaker 1: and he had a three wheeler ATV He had flipped

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Speaker 1: it and broke his collar bone, and the bone was

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Speaker 1: almost through the skin. You could see the pointed edge

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Speaker 1: of the bone protruding where it was broken. If I

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Speaker 1: tell the bureau he's got a broken shoulder, it's off

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Speaker 1: time out. So Ned he's got to tell his bosses

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Speaker 1: and risk losing the whole operation. Either that or come

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Speaker 1: up with a very last minute plan. Unbeknownst the Bureau,

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Speaker 1: I had a friend that was a dodger out there.

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Speaker 1: I said, Doc, I've got to take him in the morning.

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Speaker 1: I can't tell I got to travel with him. So

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Speaker 1: Doc tapes him up the shoulder a broken shoulder, and

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Speaker 1: gives me tons of Perkadan. So just to recap here,

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Speaker 1: Ned the FBI agent goes to his doctor buddy to

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Speaker 1: get some major pain killers for his informant in order

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Speaker 1: to go undercover. And we're in country where there was

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Speaker 1: no field office and no backup. Just Shine the stars

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Speaker 1: are never going to align again for this to go.

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Speaker 1: The next morning, I flew him all with a broken shoulder,

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Speaker 1: just taped him up and fucking took him. I'm Jake

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Speaker 1: Halberd and this is Deep Cover, Episode five, A different

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Speaker 1: kind of animal. When Ned and Shine got to the

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Speaker 1: kne means looking for this mister beach Club Lee Rich,

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Speaker 1: he was nowhere to be found. Lee was apparently off island.

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Speaker 1: Ned and Shine started hanging around at a nightclub, a

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Speaker 1: place called Look Club that Lee Rich owned. The club

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Speaker 1: was right on the beach, place where locals, celebrities, and

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Speaker 1: tourists all mingled, sitting around drinking strong dakeries and eating

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Speaker 1: Jamaican jerk chicken. And then there was the hostess, the

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Speaker 1: one girl always had a parrot on her shoulder. The

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Speaker 1: parrot would you say dirty words to anybody that pulled

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Speaker 1: up for that parrot would look at some guy in

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Speaker 1: go small dick, Small dick. That spent a few days

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Speaker 1: there getting to know the regulars. He wanted to learn

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Speaker 1: as much as he could, but he couldn't ask any

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Speaker 1: questions because well, he didn't want to draw any suspicions.

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Speaker 1: As far as he could tell a few of the

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Speaker 1: guys seemed to work for Lee, though it's unclear what

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Speaker 1: exactly they did for him. To Ned, these guys, they

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Speaker 1: seemed a bit like out of work lumberjacks on skid row,

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Speaker 1: just biding their time into the next job offer from

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Speaker 1: Lee materialized. Lee was handling hundreds and hundreds of millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars. People do a lot for that money. The

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Speaker 1: trouble is the nature of the business draws killers. Ned

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Speaker 1: says he was pretty much always on guard. You know,

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Speaker 1: wherever you were, even if you're at the club, sitting

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Speaker 1: at the table, you know, you're watching everybody around you.

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Speaker 1: You're watching what's going on. And then one afternoon he's

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Speaker 1: hanging out at the club having drinks when some unexpected

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Speaker 1: guests arrive and incomes the people from the cruise ship.

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Speaker 1: And I look in the line and here's an agent

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Speaker 1: that works about two deaths over from me. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: guy named Bob from the Detroit FBI office on his honeymoon,

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Speaker 1: an office made of Ned's who didn't know the deal

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Speaker 1: that Ned was here not on holiday, but as an

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Speaker 1: undercover agent. And his wife is with him, and she's

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Speaker 1: in a little tiny bikini and she's a knockout, and

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Speaker 1: these guys are all Oakland her and I'm just choking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this isn't going to be good. Because there's

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Speaker 1: like six or eight Ali's guys sitting around this table.

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Speaker 1: Bob and his wife start heading in Ned's direction. The

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Speaker 1: wife comes over and puts her bag on a picnic

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Speaker 1: table and then turns around and bends over to do

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Speaker 1: something in the bag, right in front of these guys.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, the bikini was barely covering anything. In

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Speaker 1: that one second, like clockwork, the gaze of every guy

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Speaker 1: there shifted to Bob's wife bent over her beach bag,

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Speaker 1: except for Bob, who finally sees Ned. And I just

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Speaker 1: went to my throat and had the look of death

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Speaker 1: on my face. And he caught on right away. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he caught in a split second. And so Bob steers

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Speaker 1: his wife away and catastrophe is avoided. But after this encounter,

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Speaker 1: Ned is really on edge. In his FBI reports from

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Speaker 1: the time, he notes that Lee's guys seem to be

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Speaker 1: on high alert. One of them keeps telling Ned that

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Speaker 1: US law enforcement is putting intense heat on the whole island.

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Speaker 1: Ned isn't sure what to make of this. But what

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Speaker 1: he does get is that this guy is paranoid, which

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Speaker 1: isn't good, right, because that means he's looking for plots

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Speaker 1: and conspiracies, and here's Ned basically conspiring against him. The

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Speaker 1: stress is unbelievable, the mental stress. You don't sleep, You're

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Speaker 1: worried about your daughter getting kicked in any minute. You

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Speaker 1: have no weapons down there, You have no backup. And

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Speaker 1: if all of a sudden, want of Lee's guys get

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Speaker 1: jealous or gets drunked up or coked up and decides

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Speaker 1: to go fuck you up, you don't have much to

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Speaker 1: defend yourself. There's no backup. You're not gonna really hit

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Speaker 1: the radio and call nine one one. You're nine. You're

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Speaker 1: not gonna be able to call for help because nobody's coming.

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Speaker 1: Ned had little to do other than sit around and

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Speaker 1: wait for Lee to show up, but he never does.

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Speaker 1: So Ned heads back to the US and then returns

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Speaker 1: to the Caymans ten days later, and this time Lee's there.

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Speaker 1: His guys tell Ned Lee wants his offices at the

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Speaker 1: club swept for bugs. Immediately presto Ned was in business,

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Speaker 1: So Ned and Shine they do their sweep. They don't

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Speaker 1: find any bugs, and then Finally Ned gets his chance

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Speaker 1: to meet Lee face to face. Lee looks like well,

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Speaker 1: a guy who owns a beach club, tans, smiling, with

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Speaker 1: a mass of brown, curly hair. Think David Hasselhoff on Baywatch,

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Speaker 1: only not quite as Ned and Lee. They get on well.

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Speaker 1: They grabbed dinner that night at a local Spanish restaurant,

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Speaker 1: and the next day Ned sweeps Lee's house for bugs.

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Speaker 1: It's also clean. Things are going well. It seems like

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Speaker 1: Lee's slowly letting Ned in and Ned he seems to

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Speaker 1: almost admire Lee. That's what it sounds like in his

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Speaker 1: novel anyway. He was a handsome man, his features strong

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Speaker 1: and well formed. Ned knew from shine that women loved him,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't hard to imagine there was quality in Lee.

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Speaker 1: He was a wholly different kind of animal. When we

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Speaker 1: come back after the break, Ned gets his big chance

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Speaker 1: to really know his man of mystery, and so do I.

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Speaker 1: When I pay a visit to Lee rich myself and

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Speaker 1: we go window shopping for smuggling boats. I track Lee

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Speaker 1: reached down a few months ago in a small coastal

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Speaker 1: town in Florida. He didn't want to meet at his house,

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Speaker 1: so we took a drive. Lee wanted to give me

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Speaker 1: a tour of the area. We passed a bunch of

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Speaker 1: boat marinas. You see that boat right here, the big

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Speaker 1: blue Hall Hunner with the two masts over here on

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Speaker 1: the right, straight straight down the dot. That's an old

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Speaker 1: golf Star forty four. That's the first boat I ever

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Speaker 1: went on, just identical to that. Lee tells me that

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Speaker 1: he grew up in Tampa around boats. Both his father

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Speaker 1: and his grandfather were sea captains. He himself built boats

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Speaker 1: as a teenager, knew them inside out, and that's why

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Speaker 1: when he was around eighteen, he was offered a job

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Speaker 1: as a smuggler on a golf Star forty four, just

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Speaker 1: like the one that he's currently pointing out to me.

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Speaker 1: They had a big Perkins engine in him that you

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Speaker 1: could motor sail, you know, you just run a real

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Speaker 1: low rpm and you'd still get a couple of extra

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Speaker 1: knots out of it. Was it a good smuggling boat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Look at that thing. It's like a tank that hold

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Speaker 1: twelve thousand pounds twelve thousand pounds of marijuana. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a serious smuggling job. But Lie says he didn't

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Speaker 1: initially get into the marijuana business to get rich. He

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Speaker 1: started off as a teenager selling dimebags here and there,

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Speaker 1: just making enough cash to support his life as a surfer.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, my dream was to go surfing every day,

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Speaker 1: make ten grand, selling some bags of pot, and get

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Speaker 1: out of it and that was it. But it didn't

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Speaker 1: pan out that way. By the time that he was

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Speaker 1: in his early twenties, he had his own smuggling boat

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Speaker 1: and he began making runs down to Columbia. So it

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Speaker 1: was an opportunity to make easy money. Who wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: done it just about in those days. Eventually he connects

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Speaker 1: with a legendary supplier down in Barankia, Columbia named Julio

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Speaker 1: Caesar Nasser David, who went by the nickname the Old Man.

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Speaker 1: He was to marijuana what James Dole was to pineapples.

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Speaker 1: The big grower. Lee and the Old Man they got close.

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Speaker 1: Lee was a great smuggler. He was very successful. He

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Speaker 1: hung out with celebrities and rock stars, but his real

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Speaker 1: talent was finance, specifically moving cash. We're talking about huge

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Speaker 1: loads of crinkled fives and tens. All those buys from

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Speaker 1: stoners across the country. They added up. Lee would often

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Speaker 1: personally move the money from the organization's safe house in

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Speaker 1: Tampa down to the Canans, and here he relied, at

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Speaker 1: least in part, on a pilot named Shelley Levitts. Shelley

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Speaker 1: was not a smuggler, She was just someone who fell

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Speaker 1: in love with flying as a girl. Oh it was magical.

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Speaker 1: I remember rolling down the runway and that the feel

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Speaker 1: of lifting off like it was yesterday. She gets her

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Speaker 1: license when she turns eighteen and starts flying for an

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Speaker 1: aircraft charter operation out of Tampa. One day she gets

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Speaker 1: a referral for a new client, Lee Rich. I just

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Speaker 1: thought he was a successful businessman, or just a successful

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Speaker 1: guy and a successful family. He was very dynamic, very

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Speaker 1: easy going, laid back, handsome guy, real friendly. She started

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Speaker 1: flying him all over the place, Louisiana, North Carolina, Michigan, Georgia, Texas.

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Speaker 1: It was a little while before I had any suspicions

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Speaker 1: that there might be something beyond just a businessman. Her

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Speaker 1: suspicions about who Lee really was came to a head

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Speaker 1: one night when an airport employee tipped her off that

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Speaker 1: the FEDS had put a transponder in her plane. They

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Speaker 1: were watching her, and I remember saying, oh, well, thank

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Speaker 1: you for the information. I appreciate that Shelley did have

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Speaker 1: a hunch about why the FEDS might be tracking her plane.

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Speaker 1: Shelley flew Lee Rich to the Caymans regularly. He would

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Speaker 1: bring these heavy briefcases. So I kind of put two

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Speaker 1: and two together to figure that, well, there might be

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Speaker 1: money in there, because Shelley knew the Caymans were famous

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Speaker 1: for one thing in particular, banking, lots of banks. Small island,

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Speaker 1: a few houses, and a lot of banks downtown, a

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Speaker 1: small island with a small airport, just a few buildings.

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Speaker 1: Lee would get off the airplane or grab a bag

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Speaker 1: or two and literally just kind of walk right into

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Speaker 1: customs and right through it to the other side. And

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Speaker 1: Shelley says that they could do that in part because

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Speaker 1: Lee Rich was so well connected in the Caymans. He

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Speaker 1: knew everyone on the island, including the customs officers. Plus

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Speaker 1: he and his associates looked so clean cut and well

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Speaker 1: put together. I would have considered them very polished executives.

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Speaker 1: They just happened to ultimately be involved in smuggling. This

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Speaker 1: is how Lee moved his money, posing as a perfectly

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Speaker 1: respectable businessman with his briefcases and a few coolers. I

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Speaker 1: mean literally, you go into the airport. You had one

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Speaker 1: of those big hundred court coolers as stuffed with hundreds

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Speaker 1: or fifties or twenties. We'd always pack some steaks or

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Speaker 1: something on top of it or something. They opened a

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Speaker 1: thing or something. You give him a couple of steaks

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Speaker 1: or whatever and smile and walk on through. From the airport.

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Speaker 1: Lee would take his coolers of cash directly to the

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Speaker 1: Bank of Nova Scotia. He was tight with one of

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Speaker 1: the bankers there who would arrange for the cash to

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Speaker 1: be counted. The bank would take a one or two

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Speaker 1: percent cut, and then Lee's money was clean. For a

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Speaker 1: long time. This system worked very well for mister Beach Club.

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Speaker 1: He was the man down in the can ins. In fact,

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00:17:07,516 --> 00:17:10,516
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three, when Queen of England visited the

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Speaker 1: island on her tour of the Western Hemisphere, she took

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Speaker 1: a ride on his yacht. It all came to a

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Speaker 1: screeching halt when Lee's right hand man, Stephen Kaylish, the

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Speaker 1: gentleman smuggler, got arrested in Tampa. With Stephen in jail,

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Speaker 1: Lee now had all kinds of problems for one. He

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Speaker 1: was worried Stephen might start talking to the Feds, you know,

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Speaker 1: revealing secrets. But also they were logistical nightmares. They had

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Speaker 1: one million pounds of marijuana just sitting in Columbia waiting

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Speaker 1: to be moved. Lee had committed to selling it, but

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Speaker 1: without his master smuggler, how exactly was he going to

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Speaker 1: do that. I usually built people around me that I

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Speaker 1: could trust, and then by me trusting them and them

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Speaker 1: trusting me, I trusted what their word was. I had

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Speaker 1: lost one, Kayliss, who was a guy that did everything

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Speaker 1: for me, whether you tell him to do it or not,

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Speaker 1: and a couple of other people. I was vulnerable at

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Speaker 1: that time. Even before Stephen Kalish was arrested, Lee had

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Speaker 1: big problems. The US was starting to take a closer

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Speaker 1: look at offshore banking hubs like the came An Islands.

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Speaker 1: Lee still remembers the day his man at the Bank

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Speaker 1: of Nova Scotia broke off their relationship. He flat out said, Lee,

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Speaker 1: I'm not taking any more your money. Lee Rich was

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Speaker 1: stressed and a bit desperate, and that's when Shine called

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Speaker 1: offering the services of cousin ed the counterintelligence expert. Well,

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00:18:47,956 --> 00:18:50,076
Speaker 1: that was an opening. He needed somebody that he could trust.

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Speaker 1: Ned played that role to the hilt. He swept Lee's

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Speaker 1: house for bugs, but then stuck around ready to pitch

279
00:18:57,956 --> 00:19:01,916
Speaker 1: in when needed, because well, Lee needed all kinds of help.

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Speaker 1: He soon asked Ned if he could get him fake

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Speaker 1: documents a birth certificate, passport, and driver's license. Said he'd

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Speaker 1: look into it gladly. So trust was building, But then

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Speaker 1: there were these other moments when it seemed like Lee

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Speaker 1: might just be a little bit suspicious, like maybe he

285
00:19:22,716 --> 00:19:27,756
Speaker 1: was having doubts about who Ned really was. More on this.

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Speaker 1: When we come back after the break, Ned remembers this

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00:19:45,196 --> 00:19:47,596
Speaker 1: one day on the island when Lee asks him to

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00:19:47,636 --> 00:19:50,476
Speaker 1: come on a little trip to the bank. He starts

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Speaker 1: talking about a rumor he'd heard that federal agents were

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00:19:53,396 --> 00:19:57,236
Speaker 1: snooping around, and then Lee turns to Ned and says,

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Speaker 1: one of these agents looks a lot like you, So

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00:20:00,916 --> 00:20:02,236
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know what was going to happen.

293
00:20:02,956 --> 00:20:04,796
Speaker 1: We got to the bank and he just says, wait here.

294
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Speaker 1: So I'm sitting alone in the car and thinking, Okay,

295
00:20:09,236 --> 00:20:12,356
Speaker 1: this is it. You know. Lee walks back out of

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00:20:12,356 --> 00:20:17,596
Speaker 1: the bank and nothing, but Ned can't shake the feeling

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00:20:17,796 --> 00:20:22,396
Speaker 1: that Lee might beyond him. Even a little moments seemed

298
00:20:22,436 --> 00:20:26,476
Speaker 1: like they could have sinister implications like this. One day,

299
00:20:26,996 --> 00:20:29,876
Speaker 1: Lee suggests that Ned should go fishing for conk with

300
00:20:29,916 --> 00:20:32,516
Speaker 1: his butler, a guy named Burtley, so they can make

301
00:20:32,556 --> 00:20:36,276
Speaker 1: a dish called sea pie. This all seemed kosher until

302
00:20:36,356 --> 00:20:38,516
Speaker 1: he and Burtley walked down to the shore to a

303
00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:42,356
Speaker 1: small skiff, just the two of them, and get in there.

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Speaker 1: You know, Burtley throws his three foot my chatty through

305
00:20:46,996 --> 00:20:48,876
Speaker 1: it in a boat and I'm like, oh, this isn't

306
00:20:48,956 --> 00:20:52,196
Speaker 1: too cool. So they paddled out into the mist to

307
00:20:52,316 --> 00:20:55,956
Speaker 1: this site where Bertley supposedly knows the conk are. When

308
00:20:55,996 --> 00:20:58,596
Speaker 1: they get there, Burtley points at the spot where Ned

309
00:20:58,596 --> 00:21:02,436
Speaker 1: should dive to get the shellfish. Ned eyes the machete again,

310
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Speaker 1: and he looks at the oars, and then he looks

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Speaker 1: down at the water, and then he glances at Burtley.

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00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:12,956
Speaker 1: That's thinking house is going to play out. Finally, he

313
00:21:13,036 --> 00:21:15,516
Speaker 1: just jumps in the water and dives for the cock.

314
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Speaker 1: He sees the cock, grabs it, and all the while

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Speaker 1: he's thinking about his next move. He was planning this

316
00:21:22,076 --> 00:21:24,156
Speaker 1: out in my head. If I come up and he's

317
00:21:24,196 --> 00:21:25,996
Speaker 1: got the machete. He ready to chop my head off.

318
00:21:26,836 --> 00:21:29,236
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, okay, I'll rock the bolt and then reach

319
00:21:29,276 --> 00:21:30,636
Speaker 1: over the edge and try to get hold of this

320
00:21:31,476 --> 00:21:39,276
Speaker 1: or to defend myself. When he surfaced, there was Burtley smiling, relaxed,

321
00:21:39,796 --> 00:21:46,316
Speaker 1: perfectly friendly. But Ned was spooked. It was very tense,

322
00:21:46,476 --> 00:21:49,276
Speaker 1: and there was always tense minutes like that that that

323
00:21:49,436 --> 00:21:53,836
Speaker 1: Lee hadn't said, Hey, Burtley, get rid of this guy. Well,

324
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Speaker 1: you'd be eaten by the sea life, you know, sharks

325
00:21:57,396 --> 00:22:02,036
Speaker 1: and crabs and snappers and ship would just eat your body.

326
00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:15,996
Speaker 1: You'd be gone. In Ned's mind, it began to seem

327
00:22:16,036 --> 00:22:18,076
Speaker 1: like it was just a matter of time before he

328
00:22:18,116 --> 00:22:23,076
Speaker 1: was outed. He started anticipating the would be assassins, especially

329
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Speaker 1: when he returned home to the condos where he and

330
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Speaker 1: Shine were staying on the island. Recently, I went down

331
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Speaker 1: with Ned to the Caymans and he showed me around. Okay,

332
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Speaker 1: well I don't see where Arabic. I think they've changed

333
00:22:37,036 --> 00:22:41,276
Speaker 1: the numbers around. But we retraced his steps and we

334
00:22:41,436 --> 00:22:45,756
Speaker 1: visited those very condos. Ned pointed out a set of

335
00:22:45,836 --> 00:22:47,996
Speaker 1: stairs that led up to a room where he slept,

336
00:22:48,476 --> 00:22:53,676
Speaker 1: or actually didn't sleep, No, you're always half awake waiting

337
00:22:54,156 --> 00:22:55,636
Speaker 1: waiting for the door to kick in, you know, and

338
00:22:55,676 --> 00:22:58,076
Speaker 1: you don't have a gun, you know, you couldn't have

339
00:22:58,116 --> 00:23:03,676
Speaker 1: a gun here, so no, you're pretty vulnerable. There was

340
00:23:03,676 --> 00:23:06,716
Speaker 1: hardly any people here, so we wanted to know if

341
00:23:06,716 --> 00:23:10,076
Speaker 1: somebody was coming in the night. We would some beer

342
00:23:10,116 --> 00:23:13,556
Speaker 1: cans on those steps here, so they hopefully stumble over

343
00:23:13,596 --> 00:23:14,956
Speaker 1: and when they came up and make a bunch of noise,

344
00:23:15,036 --> 00:23:18,236
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of beer cans on a dark

345
00:23:18,316 --> 00:23:23,156
Speaker 1: and stairwell. That's where Ned was at. While Ned and

346
00:23:23,196 --> 00:23:26,556
Speaker 1: I were in the Caymans. We had a few quiet mornings.

347
00:23:26,756 --> 00:23:28,596
Speaker 1: We just chilled out in the living room of his

348
00:23:28,716 --> 00:23:32,836
Speaker 1: rental condo and talked. Being there seemed to stir up

349
00:23:32,876 --> 00:23:36,036
Speaker 1: all kinds of memories for him. He seemed more open,

350
00:23:36,956 --> 00:23:41,236
Speaker 1: and so I just kept asking questions. Let me let

351
00:23:41,276 --> 00:23:46,036
Speaker 1: me go back. I have some more earlier questions before

352
00:23:46,036 --> 00:23:50,156
Speaker 1: working on this case, before kind of arresting Toby, had

353
00:23:50,196 --> 00:23:55,636
Speaker 1: you ever gone undercover before? Not really, not with the FBI.

354
00:23:57,276 --> 00:23:59,116
Speaker 1: I did a lot of undercover work in the army

355
00:24:00,196 --> 00:24:08,636
Speaker 1: in Korea with drugs buying and penetrating drug organizations. This

356
00:24:08,676 --> 00:24:12,276
Speaker 1: was new to me. Ned had mentioned serving in Korea before,

357
00:24:12,436 --> 00:24:15,516
Speaker 1: but never in any great detail. Now he went on

358
00:24:15,596 --> 00:24:17,956
Speaker 1: to tell me that for a while he was investigating

359
00:24:18,036 --> 00:24:21,396
Speaker 1: North Korean agents who were sneaking down across the border

360
00:24:21,556 --> 00:24:25,756
Speaker 1: and selling drugs like heroin to US servicemen. In order

361
00:24:25,796 --> 00:24:28,516
Speaker 1: to stop this, Ned teamed up with his counterparts in

362
00:24:28,516 --> 00:24:33,916
Speaker 1: the South Korean Military Republic of Korea Criminal Investiga ANITY

363
00:24:33,916 --> 00:24:39,796
Speaker 1: Detachment and their boss his name was Tiger, and Tiger

364
00:24:40,636 --> 00:24:43,836
Speaker 1: he wanted to be on his good side because he

365
00:24:43,876 --> 00:24:48,116
Speaker 1: was a mean son of a bitch. So Ned goes

366
00:24:48,196 --> 00:24:51,196
Speaker 1: under cover to make some buys and bust these North

367
00:24:51,276 --> 00:25:00,796
Speaker 1: Korean agents. Did you have any dicey calls or dicey situations? Yeah? Yeah,

368
00:25:00,996 --> 00:25:03,836
Speaker 1: I had a North Korean crack off, a forty five

369
00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:05,796
Speaker 1: round of the pistol and an alley that hit about

370
00:25:05,796 --> 00:25:10,516
Speaker 1: six inches above my head he missed. Ned arrests this

371
00:25:10,596 --> 00:25:13,876
Speaker 1: North Korean agent and then turns him over to Tiger

372
00:25:14,076 --> 00:25:16,836
Speaker 1: and his men. Over there we had when it got cold,

373
00:25:16,876 --> 00:25:20,396
Speaker 1: they had oil burning heaters. As you're close to him,

374
00:25:20,396 --> 00:25:23,156
Speaker 1: there as hot as hell, So they put him in

375
00:25:23,196 --> 00:25:27,276
Speaker 1: a push up position in front of that heater and

376
00:25:27,396 --> 00:25:29,236
Speaker 1: just a ball cook him and then kicked the ship

377
00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:32,716
Speaker 1: out of his rib zoom beat him and did you

378
00:25:32,716 --> 00:25:36,836
Speaker 1: witness that? Oh yeah, he got burns on a skin.

379
00:25:37,716 --> 00:25:39,436
Speaker 1: I never checked his skin, but I know as hot

380
00:25:39,476 --> 00:25:45,596
Speaker 1: as hell. So I mean he's swatting and quivering. You know,

381
00:25:46,596 --> 00:25:48,956
Speaker 1: he knew if he if he broke the push up position,

382
00:25:48,996 --> 00:25:54,276
Speaker 1: he was going to get his ribs caved in. So yeah,

383
00:25:54,276 --> 00:25:59,276
Speaker 1: I can get real ugly, you know. In the end,

384
00:25:59,316 --> 00:26:00,556
Speaker 1: I don't know what they were did with the guy.

385
00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:02,916
Speaker 1: They took him away, so I don't know what they

386
00:26:02,916 --> 00:26:07,956
Speaker 1: did to him. Does witnessing something like that change you?

387
00:26:10,396 --> 00:26:22,476
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, Um, I guess I was

388
00:26:22,476 --> 00:26:25,916
Speaker 1: always around a lot of violence, starting with the army,

389
00:26:26,116 --> 00:26:31,476
Speaker 1: and and I guess I didn't think about it at

390
00:26:31,476 --> 00:26:37,756
Speaker 1: the time. Let me ask you a question. You watch

391
00:26:37,876 --> 00:26:40,796
Speaker 1: this so you're and some of this is making you

392
00:26:40,916 --> 00:26:44,476
Speaker 1: aware of what people can do to someone if they

393
00:26:44,476 --> 00:26:49,156
Speaker 1: fall into the wrong hands. Is this crossing your mind

394
00:26:49,156 --> 00:26:51,716
Speaker 1: at all when you're basically the one that's behind enemy

395
00:26:51,756 --> 00:26:58,796
Speaker 1: lines in the Caymans. I mean you've witnessed what can happen, right, Yeah,

396
00:26:59,516 --> 00:27:05,276
Speaker 1: And you know you don't want to be taken prisoner.

397
00:27:06,756 --> 00:27:09,516
Speaker 1: I have to believe in your mind that you're you're

398
00:27:09,556 --> 00:27:17,076
Speaker 1: not going to be taken captive. When Ned told me

399
00:27:17,116 --> 00:27:19,756
Speaker 1: all this, I've been talking to him for over a

400
00:27:19,876 --> 00:27:23,836
Speaker 1: year on weekends, early in the morning, often several times

401
00:27:23,836 --> 00:27:27,876
Speaker 1: in the same day, and honestly, he could be very guarded.

402
00:27:28,156 --> 00:27:31,556
Speaker 1: There were some places he just would not go. And

403
00:27:31,636 --> 00:27:37,596
Speaker 1: now I kind of understood why. As Ned is struggling

404
00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:41,236
Speaker 1: to hold it together and the Cayans back home in Detroit,

405
00:27:41,676 --> 00:27:45,036
Speaker 1: Ned's wife Kathie rarely heard from him. She had to

406
00:27:45,036 --> 00:27:48,116
Speaker 1: rely on Ned's handler at the FBI to get updates,

407
00:27:48,476 --> 00:27:50,356
Speaker 1: and he would call me like once every couple of

408
00:27:50,356 --> 00:27:52,836
Speaker 1: weeks and go, oh, I saw Ned, and he gave

409
00:27:52,876 --> 00:27:56,156
Speaker 1: me the signal that everything's okay. And that would be

410
00:27:56,196 --> 00:27:59,636
Speaker 1: about as much contact or even knowledge that the bureau

411
00:27:59,716 --> 00:28:02,916
Speaker 1: had of where he was, whether he was alive, whether

412
00:28:02,956 --> 00:28:06,876
Speaker 1: he was well, you know, So that really started wearing

413
00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:10,556
Speaker 1: on me. But she does recall at least one occasion

414
00:28:10,716 --> 00:28:13,396
Speaker 1: when she did manage to talk with Ned. He told

415
00:28:13,396 --> 00:28:15,716
Speaker 1: her about a fancy dinner that he'd had with Lee

416
00:28:15,876 --> 00:28:19,836
Speaker 1: and some celebrities. He told me, oh, I had dinner

417
00:28:19,876 --> 00:28:24,716
Speaker 1: with Ringo Star and Barbara forget the lady's name now,

418
00:28:25,036 --> 00:28:27,716
Speaker 1: who he married who's ringo star married too? She was

419
00:28:27,756 --> 00:28:30,236
Speaker 1: one of the Bond girls. And I said to him,

420
00:28:30,676 --> 00:28:33,916
Speaker 1: how on earth do you think that I can compete

421
00:28:35,156 --> 00:28:37,756
Speaker 1: with the kind of people that you are I'm sure

422
00:28:37,836 --> 00:28:40,476
Speaker 1: running with, because I'm confident she wasn't the only woman

423
00:28:40,516 --> 00:28:44,636
Speaker 1: at that dinner table. You know, everybody else is in

424
00:28:44,716 --> 00:28:46,996
Speaker 1: sitting there as couples, and Ned is sitting there alone.

425
00:28:47,356 --> 00:28:51,396
Speaker 1: That doesn't even make sense, of course, not, of course not.

426
00:28:52,236 --> 00:28:54,476
Speaker 1: Cathy thought that Ned had always been very good at

427
00:28:54,516 --> 00:28:58,796
Speaker 1: playing Ed Thomas, his fictional persona, but maybe he was

428
00:28:58,916 --> 00:29:01,476
Speaker 1: too good at it. If you're going to do an

429
00:29:01,556 --> 00:29:05,636
Speaker 1: undercover assignment like that, you are going to have to

430
00:29:05,796 --> 00:29:12,956
Speaker 1: completely absorb yourself in that life. And in order to

431
00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:17,236
Speaker 1: do that, you have to lose this life at least

432
00:29:17,236 --> 00:29:22,236
Speaker 1: for a while. And to think that you can you

433
00:29:22,316 --> 00:29:25,236
Speaker 1: can do that like an actor does in a movie. Oh, I,

434
00:29:26,076 --> 00:29:29,196
Speaker 1: you know, immersed myself in the role of so and so. Yeah,

435
00:29:29,196 --> 00:29:33,396
Speaker 1: but in this life, no one is yelling cut. You know.

436
00:29:34,716 --> 00:29:37,996
Speaker 1: Cathy voiced her concerns to Ned, and he didn't object

437
00:29:38,156 --> 00:29:42,436
Speaker 1: or argue with his wife. Just you know, listen to it,

438
00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:48,596
Speaker 1: and and uh, who's saying is really true? That when

439
00:29:48,596 --> 00:29:52,916
Speaker 1: you get that deep undercover with a bunch of gangsters,

440
00:29:53,036 --> 00:29:59,116
Speaker 1: drug dealers and murders and bombers and whatever, that you

441
00:29:59,116 --> 00:30:02,236
Speaker 1: know you're you're losing track of reality of what you

442
00:30:02,276 --> 00:30:06,596
Speaker 1: really are. This possibility was not entirely lost on Ned's

443
00:30:06,636 --> 00:30:10,356
Speaker 1: bosses at the FBI. The b RO eventually decided to

444
00:30:10,396 --> 00:30:14,436
Speaker 1: send another agent named Lynn Stonebridge down to the Caymans

445
00:30:14,796 --> 00:30:17,796
Speaker 1: just to check on Ned. I mean, they knew where

446
00:30:17,836 --> 00:30:20,316
Speaker 1: he was, but who knew what was really going on.

447
00:30:20,596 --> 00:30:23,596
Speaker 1: There was nobody else sort of on his side that

448
00:30:23,716 --> 00:30:26,756
Speaker 1: was there. And then it also gave him a little

449
00:30:26,796 --> 00:30:30,076
Speaker 1: stress released by telling me what's going on. And you

450
00:30:30,076 --> 00:30:32,076
Speaker 1: could see he was worked up about some of the

451
00:30:32,156 --> 00:30:34,756
Speaker 1: stuff too, So he just needed someone to talk to

452
00:30:34,916 --> 00:30:37,796
Speaker 1: that he could trust. She was only on the island

453
00:30:37,796 --> 00:30:41,076
Speaker 1: for a few days, and even she sensed the danger.

454
00:30:41,516 --> 00:30:45,196
Speaker 1: You've start getting paranoid and watching everyone around you. It

455
00:30:45,356 --> 00:30:50,116
Speaker 1: sounds like a pretty wretched existence, but Ned was still determined.

456
00:30:50,996 --> 00:30:52,636
Speaker 1: It's not like you can call it time out and

457
00:30:52,876 --> 00:30:56,556
Speaker 1: get out of the game. You know, they say you're

458
00:30:56,556 --> 00:30:59,356
Speaker 1: in it to win it, not to play armchair psychologist,

459
00:30:59,436 --> 00:31:03,076
Speaker 1: but like do you have to push your real self

460
00:31:03,076 --> 00:31:08,436
Speaker 1: and your real feelings like down and kind of bury them.

461
00:31:08,476 --> 00:31:11,996
Speaker 1: On some level, I think he would become hardened, you know,

462
00:31:12,156 --> 00:31:16,156
Speaker 1: just like the rock Cid beating the hell out of

463
00:31:16,196 --> 00:31:17,716
Speaker 1: this guy. I mean they heard him. They broke his

464
00:31:17,876 --> 00:31:21,196
Speaker 1: ribj getor the ribs break. You know, this is the

465
00:31:21,276 --> 00:31:25,276
Speaker 1: North Korean that was tortured. You have to suppress your

466
00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:32,476
Speaker 1: feelings and go for the greater cause. And you know,

467
00:31:32,516 --> 00:31:38,876
Speaker 1: and also it's a challenge, it's it's a challenge. What

468
00:31:39,036 --> 00:31:41,356
Speaker 1: made it worth it for Ned was that slowly he

469
00:31:41,476 --> 00:31:44,956
Speaker 1: was making progress. He was climbing up the ladder, way

470
00:31:45,076 --> 00:31:47,956
Speaker 1: up the ladder. He'd started off at a roadside biker

471
00:31:47,996 --> 00:31:52,356
Speaker 1: bar Detroit with Toby. Then he got Shine, who vetted everybody.

472
00:31:52,716 --> 00:31:55,796
Speaker 1: He had a line on Mike Vogel, the Detroit grocery guy.

473
00:31:56,116 --> 00:31:59,956
Speaker 1: And now here he was in the Canaans. He'd found

474
00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:03,396
Speaker 1: Lee Rich, the big boss, mister beach Club. Not just

475
00:32:03,516 --> 00:32:06,356
Speaker 1: that he'd earned his trust, Lee had told him that

476
00:32:06,396 --> 00:32:08,476
Speaker 1: he was in the process of setting up a second

477
00:32:08,476 --> 00:32:13,116
Speaker 1: base of up rations in the Bahamas. The scope of

478
00:32:13,236 --> 00:32:18,316
Speaker 1: Ned's investigation was expanding exponentially. It seemed Ned had learned

479
00:32:18,356 --> 00:32:21,396
Speaker 1: who Lee's supplier was. The old man done in bearing

480
00:32:21,476 --> 00:32:24,396
Speaker 1: Kai at Columbia. But what was he supposed to do

481
00:32:24,476 --> 00:32:29,556
Speaker 1: with this intel? Anyhow? Officially legally that was none of

482
00:32:29,636 --> 00:32:33,196
Speaker 1: Ned's business. This was way beyond his purview as an

483
00:32:33,196 --> 00:32:37,796
Speaker 1: FBI agent. But still he had questions. He wanted to

484
00:32:37,836 --> 00:32:40,316
Speaker 1: know where was the money going if it couldn't be

485
00:32:40,356 --> 00:32:44,356
Speaker 1: banked in the Caymans. He wanted to know where did

486
00:32:44,396 --> 00:33:03,516
Speaker 1: this all end? Next time on deep Cover, Ned's undercover

487
00:33:03,756 --> 00:33:08,236
Speaker 1: identity had been compromised and they had to put a

488
00:33:08,316 --> 00:33:10,836
Speaker 1: hit on Ned and they were going to lure him

489
00:33:10,876 --> 00:33:13,796
Speaker 1: to a location and give him a hot shot of

490
00:33:14,276 --> 00:33:20,476
Speaker 1: drugs and kill him. And they also knew where we lived.

491
00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:42,076
Speaker 1: Deep Cover is produced by Jacob Smith and edited by

492
00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:46,876
Speaker 1: Karen Shakerji. Our story editor is Jack hit. Original music

493
00:33:46,956 --> 00:33:50,076
Speaker 1: and our theme was composed by Luis Gara and Flawn

494
00:33:50,156 --> 00:33:54,396
Speaker 1: Williams is our engineer. Fact checking by Amy Gaines. Mia

495
00:33:54,476 --> 00:33:58,836
Speaker 1: Lobell is Pushkin's executive producer. Ned's novel is read by

496
00:33:58,876 --> 00:34:03,236
Speaker 1: Walton Goggins. Special thanks to Julia Barton had their fame,

497
00:34:03,556 --> 00:34:08,996
Speaker 1: Carly mcgliori, Leeta mullatd Maya Caning, Eric Sandler, Aggie Taylor,

498
00:34:09,516 --> 00:34:14,076
Speaker 1: Kadija Holland, zuwek Winn and Jacob Weisberg at Pushkin Industries.

499
00:34:14,596 --> 00:34:19,276
Speaker 1: Special thanks also to Jeff Singer at Stowaway Entertainment. Additional

500
00:34:19,316 --> 00:34:22,516
Speaker 1: thanks to Joseph Betty check out his terrific artwork. If

501
00:34:22,516 --> 00:34:26,236
Speaker 1: you ever get down to the Caymans, I'm Jake Albern