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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and fascinating facts and

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Speaker 2: figures behind your favorite TV shows, music, movies, and more.

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Speaker 2: We are your two sandal class sword brandishing soldiers of Scintilla.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's not that many synonyms for like trivia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been learning that now that we're on episode

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Speaker 1: one sixty.

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Speaker 2: Nine, Yeah, Jordan. Today we're talking about a turn of

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Speaker 2: the century classic, turn of the millennium classic that conquered

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Speaker 2: its its own genre simply by naming itself that. That's right.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about Ridley Scott's Gladiator, I guess, henceforth known

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Speaker 2: as Ridley Scott's Gladiator why or Gladiator one, because now

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Speaker 2: there's Gladiator two.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Gladiator two is much of a competitor. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: Gladiator I, the Phantom Menace, Gladiator and the Furious Glad

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Speaker 1: Glad in fears.

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Speaker 2: It should be it should be Gladiator too Glad and

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Speaker 2: Furious too Glad too furious Gladiators.

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Speaker 1: Take a page from the Alien playbook.

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Speaker 2: Yeap the dollar sign. Now that movie, this, this movie's

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Speaker 2: gonna flop so hard.

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Speaker 1: I know my friend saw it last night and said

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Speaker 1: it was a giant mess. Yeah, c G I was

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Speaker 1: the worst thing that ever happened to Ridley.

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Speaker 2: God love him, but this movie shows why he's he

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Speaker 2: should be kept on a leash with that stuff. Anyway. Uh,

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Speaker 2: that's right, we're talking about Really, Scott's The Gladiator. There's

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Speaker 2: a sequel. I've heard It's bad. Live your truth. Ridley

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Speaker 2: Scott still has shooters out there on Twitter. They've come

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Speaker 2: after me? Really? Oh god? Yeah, may friends of the pod? No, no,

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Speaker 2: friends of the pod. It was over the whole Alien

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Speaker 2: franchise cluster. So I don't know. Man, be careful dissenting

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Speaker 2: on Twitter about about the Rids the ridsler. Uh does

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Speaker 2: that do anything anything?

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Speaker 1: There?

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Speaker 2: Skiddy badivity, Skimmitty's Skimbitty Scott skibbe Lee Scott Wow, already

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Speaker 2: off the rails.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: The og remains a high water mark for the sword

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Speaker 2: and sandal genre, unless, of course, you prefer three hundred,

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Speaker 2: in which case that's fine, but you're probably listening to

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Speaker 2: the wrong podcast. Go check out something that involves human

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Speaker 2: growth hormone and MMA, and.

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Speaker 1: You've probably plugged your headphones into the wrong orifice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just hit yourself in the head with the hammer a

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Speaker 1: few times. That's sad. People will yell at me. I

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Speaker 1: saw three hundred the Day Open my friends.

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Speaker 2: Really yeah, I mean I do remember watching that movie

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Speaker 2: in college and it ended and we were all like,

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Speaker 2: should we start working out crazy anyway? All right, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna just we're gonna dive into this. Jordan, hit me

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Speaker 2: with your gladiator you're glad's memories. You're glad, You're glad memory.

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Speaker 1: Hit me with the gladiator stick. Oh, I'm glad to

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Speaker 1: be here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a movie.

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Speaker 1: I recall my dad really like it, And when you're twelve,

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Speaker 1: sometimes that's all it takes you to think something's really cool.

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Speaker 2: I saw it with my dad. Yeah, you know, we

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Speaker 2: got boomer dads. I'm sure there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: Spartacus memories.

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Speaker 1: That went into that much Gladiator movies with our dads.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how many times are we going to get the

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Speaker 1: airplane joke in here?

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Speaker 2: Just enough? I trust you to be tasteful in the edit.

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Speaker 1: There are admittedly a lot of pitfalls the historical dramas,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like you either run the risk of

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Speaker 1: coming across as self serious and overblown and therefore ridiculous

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Speaker 1: or boring as hell. And this movie is charitably neither,

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Speaker 1: maybe more towards the overblown and ridiculous. I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: it in a while. I have to admit I love

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Speaker 1: Gladiator as a kid, and bear in mind I was

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Speaker 1: a weird kid because it was the last chance to

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Speaker 1: see a bunch of my beloved sixties hell raiser actors

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Speaker 1: on film, because part of that I'd only seen them

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Speaker 1: in like old sixties movies. But suddenly you had Richard Harris,

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Speaker 1: Oliver Reid, and David Hemmings being cool on screen. So

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Speaker 1: that was really thrilling to me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't say that David Hemmings is cool

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Speaker 2: in this no. I think the most you could say

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Speaker 2: about Richard Harris is that he is.

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Speaker 1: A lot alive in it barely and didn't even clear

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Speaker 1: that bar by dying midway through.

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Speaker 2: I do actually like I mean, it's we'll get into

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Speaker 2: it later. It is sad, but I do actually quite

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Speaker 2: like Oliver Reed in this role. Oliver It's crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I forgot so crazy to me that you know David

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Speaker 2: Hemmings from all his British style from blow Up. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: But I only know him. I mean I mostly know

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Speaker 2: him from the from Deep Red, the Dario Argento film

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Speaker 2: that he's in the Jallo Jallo film.

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Speaker 1: I forgot like after the sixties, he just was a

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Speaker 1: character actor in terrible sci fi movies for like thirty years, Right,

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Speaker 1: he was almost Alex in a clockwork Orange and that's where.

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Speaker 2: Two roads diverged in a wood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, life would have been really different for him had

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Speaker 1: that worked out or maybe not. Anyway, where were we

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong. I know we kind of touched on

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Speaker 1: this with the whole three hundred point, but I feel

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Speaker 1: like the this movie did the whole sword and sample

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Speaker 1: thing so well that there really hasn't been one to

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Speaker 1: top it since, like at least for like pure drama,

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Speaker 1: certainly not by Ridley, and he took so many goddamn

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Speaker 1: stabs at it, you know, Kingdom of Heaven.

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Speaker 2: Immediately after this, there was King Arthur h Yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: a there's like a there were a few others that

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Speaker 2: I saw dredged up as the kind of aftermath of this,

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Speaker 2: and none of them. I mean, people will go to

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Speaker 2: bad for Kingdom of Heaven, because, like I said earlier,

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Speaker 2: Ridley has shooters out there, but I don't know, not

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Speaker 2: not like unanimously hailed. You know, it's it's it is

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Speaker 2: all of those things. It is self serious, it is overblown.

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Speaker 2: It is not boring as hell though, because it's got

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Speaker 2: all that great action. And you know, Ridley, God bless

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Speaker 2: him for as much of pain in the ass as

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Speaker 2: he might be personally and professionally. Man can move a camera,

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Speaker 2: you know. And and it's great. I mean, it's Russell.

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Speaker 2: I like Russell Crowe more than I did at the time.

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Speaker 2: I think he he's like the best thing he's ever

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Speaker 2: done is The Nice Guys with Ryan Gosling, No right

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Speaker 2: as the other Guys.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, The Nice Guys is like a Shane blackfil

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Speaker 1: I think it's written by Shane Black. That is, like

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Speaker 1: I sort of flew under the radar, but it is

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Speaker 1: one of the genuinely most like beloved, non franchise, one

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Speaker 1: off comedy movies at least on the pockets of Twitter

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Speaker 1: that I'm in.

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Speaker 2: And it's great. He's it's him and Ryan Gosling and

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Speaker 2: he just they it's hilarious. It's a great film. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: at the time, I firmly remember this being the era

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Speaker 2: of like Russell crow sucking. I really didn't realize the

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Speaker 2: foam throwing thing was like a full five years after this,

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Speaker 2: because I've kind of into the Gladiator the Gladiator thing.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know. I watched this recently and

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Speaker 2: it still goes that's it. Watch it or don't. I

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Speaker 2: don't care.

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Speaker 1: I was reading some New Yorker profile I think it

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Speaker 1: was New Yorker on Ridley Scott recently. I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that his brother Tony called him from the bridge shortly

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Speaker 1: before he jumped. Oh Jesus, that was a fact I

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Speaker 1: learned the other day.

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Speaker 2: That hasn't left my mind. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look,

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Speaker 2: I've read a lot of I've read the whole making

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Speaker 2: of Blade Runner. There's a great book that's out there

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Speaker 2: about that, and I've read a lot about that, and

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Speaker 2: I've read multiple set things about Ridley and I don't

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Speaker 2: particularly love the direction that he took the Alien franchise in,

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Speaker 2: and there's a lot of caveats that I have about him.

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Speaker 2: But great movie. Great movie. Let's talk about Gladiator. So

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Speaker 2: from the acts of violence, creative and otherwise that Russell

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Speaker 2: Crowe brought to the set to legendary British hell raiser

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Speaker 2: all over reads tragic demise and tragic comic demise, to

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Speaker 2: the thousands and thousands of pieces of arms and armor

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Speaker 2: they made for the film, to the perils of live

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Speaker 2: tiger wrangling. Here's everything you didn't know about Ridley Scott's Gladiator.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it was an Italian. The story of Gladiator

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Speaker 2: begins with David Franzoni, a screenwriter best known for writing

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Speaker 2: basically Amistad, Amistad, Amistad Stad. I thought it was okay.

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Speaker 2: He wrote Amistad, and then he wrote Gladiator, and then

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Speaker 2: not much else. Grew up in Vermont, got into war

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Speaker 2: movies thanks to his dad, who was a veteran, Like

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Speaker 2: a load of people from that generation that it was

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Speaker 2: John Ford and the Westerns and Roger Corman and like

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Speaker 2: his World War II sort of stuff, The Hell's Angels

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Speaker 2: and the flying you know all that right, ringing a bell.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking out in my ass there Hell's Angels.

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Speaker 1: I thought was Howard Hughes.

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Speaker 2: Oh that is Howard Hughes. Let me take that back.

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Speaker 2: You could be wrong, It's okay. No. Franzoni, growing up

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Speaker 2: in Vermont, developed an interest in war movies, likely informed

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Speaker 2: by his dad, who was a veteran. He name dropped

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Speaker 2: films by John Ford, Roger Corman and he wants. Described

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Speaker 2: the experience of seeing all quiet on the Western Front

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Speaker 2: as quote like being hit with a hammer.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out if that's a good thing

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Speaker 1: or not gets your attention.

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Speaker 2: At least I was gonna say, depends what kind of hammer,

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Speaker 2: but and where and when and how long? How and pooh,

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Speaker 2: the five journalistic questions are being struck by a hammer

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Speaker 2: if we have none of them. Yeah, you won't learn

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Speaker 2: that in jay school. That said, Franzoni did not pursue

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Speaker 2: his dream of filmmaking until a good while later. First,

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Speaker 2: he majored in paleontology at the University of Vermont, as

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Speaker 2: so many young men did before him, though at least

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Speaker 2: white boomer men. Franzoni took time off following graduation and

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Speaker 2: decided to travel. He arrived in Europe, where he about

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Speaker 2: a cheap motorcycle and took off across Europe and Western Asia.

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Speaker 2: It was in Baghdad where, whilst living in a yurt,

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Speaker 2: he traded a book on the Irish Revolution with an

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Speaker 2: Australian woman in return for those about to die a

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Speaker 2: book about the Roman gladiator games. That whole thing sounds

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Speaker 2: like an extended Matt Berry riff. It was in Baghdad.

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Speaker 2: We're living in a yurrop. I traded a book on

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Speaker 2: the Irish Revolution with an Australian woman and returned for

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Speaker 2: those about to Die a book about of a Romania game.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of like mid century man's stories in

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Speaker 1: this episode, things that never could happen now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I just walked in there with my shoes,

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Speaker 2: holding my shoes in my hand, and the guy said,

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Speaker 2: I like your shoes and how you hold them in

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Speaker 2: your hand. Would you like to direct a movie? It's

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Speaker 2: like the story of every mid century man. Anyway, friend

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Speaker 2: Zone was hooked. He told y'a who everywhere I went

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Speaker 2: in Europe there were arenas. Even as I went east,

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Speaker 2: going through Turkey. I began to think to myself, this

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Speaker 2: must have been a hell of a franchise. Spoken like

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Speaker 2: a true American, because yeah, Hollywood screenwriter brain there. Then,

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Speaker 2: in his words, I'm more in India. I decided I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a screenwriter. Despite this, Franzoni's first script

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Speaker 2: in Hollywood was the exact polar opposite of a historical epic.

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Speaker 2: He sold a treatment that would become nineteen eighty six

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Speaker 2: is Jumpin' Jack Flash, which is a spy comedy starring

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Speaker 2: Whoopee Goldberg and directed by Penny Marshall in her theatrical

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Speaker 2: film directorial debut. There's a little bar trivia question for you.

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Speaker 2: The whole thing was your typical first screenplay sold nightmare.

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Speaker 2: This movie was originally intended as a starring vehicle for

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Speaker 2: Shelley Long, you know, in her Get Me the Hell

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Speaker 2: Out of Cheers phase, but Goldberg hated the film's director,

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Speaker 2: who were just peeling with nesting matroysh cadals of trivia here.

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Speaker 2: Jumpin Jack Flash's director was Howard Ziefe, who's an ad

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Speaker 2: guy best known for writing alcas Seltzer's That's a Spicy

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Speaker 2: Meat de Ball TV spot. And then the studio hated

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Speaker 2: this guy's dailies, so they bought in Penny Marshall, who

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Speaker 2: sat down with producer Joel Silver, who was also in this,

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Speaker 2: and they rewrote a bunch of Frianzoni script They brought

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Speaker 2: in a bunch of other writers, so the whole thing

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Speaker 2: was a debacle for the guy. His next project, though,

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Speaker 2: was nineteen ninety two's Citizen Khan, which is an HBO

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Speaker 2: biopic of framed attorney Roy Kahan played by James Woods.

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Speaker 2: In a truly one to one ratio bit of casting

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Speaker 2: a real life scumbag to an actor scumbag. This earned

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Speaker 2: him one of those famed Cable Ace Awards that we

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Speaker 2: constantly hear about but that are not real and don't

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Speaker 2: mean anything. But he won a Peabody.

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Speaker 1: That's real.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty real, that's real. They got nominated for an Emmy.

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Speaker 2: Oliver Stone then commissioned Franzoni to write The Mayor of

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Speaker 2: Castro Street, which is about the assassinated San Francisco councilman

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Speaker 2: Harvey Milk. That film, eventually, many years later, became two

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Speaker 2: thousand and Eight's Milk, starring Sean Penn. So from there,

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Speaker 2: Franzoni became the historical guy. He wrote a script about Shakespeare,

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Speaker 2: he wrote about one about George Washington, and he was

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Speaker 2: supposedly tapped to write Ralph Nader's life story, but all

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Speaker 2: he had to say about that to the La Times

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Speaker 2: was that doing research, he decided Nader was a crank,

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Speaker 2: that's it, and then didn't pursue it.

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Speaker 1: Further, can you imagine like people lining up to see

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Speaker 1: the Ralph Naders story like a Bohemian Rhapsody style? Who

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Speaker 1: would play Ralph Nader? I guess in that era Dustin Hoffman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Ralph Nader's got a lankiness to him.

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Speaker 2: She's still alive, Ralph Nader. Yeah. I'm trying to think

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Speaker 2: of the you know, he's created. Ralph Nader's creating such

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Speaker 2: a like Lovecraftian blank in my mind, Like trying to

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Speaker 2: contemplate him is just giving me nothing but horrible, endless

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Speaker 2: blackness that I don't I don't even know casting. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't even shadow cast, fantasy cast him. Kevin Costner.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of James Woods if you google him, all right.

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Speaker 2: Frienzoni's fortunes changed when he wrote the script for Steven

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Speaker 2: Spielberg's I'm Astad before that film was ever completed, though

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Speaker 2: or based on the strength of it at the timeline

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Speaker 2: gets fuzzy Anyway, Works, which was then Steven Spielberg's new

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Speaker 2: new studio, offered Franzoni a three picture deal. Amistad wasn't

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Speaker 2: actually like a huge, chart conquering box office success, but

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Speaker 2: and it was pilloried for its historical inaccuracy, but people

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Speaker 2: seem to think of it fondly, and I certainly remember

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Speaker 2: it being a prestige historical piece of the era. The

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Speaker 2: La Times noted in their review of Abishtad that Frenzoni's

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Speaker 2: script was praised for its facile, if occasionally hamhanded, synthesis

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Speaker 2: of historical sources and for its unflinching description of the

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Speaker 2: whrrors of the slave trade. Newsmax called it the feel

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Speaker 2: good movie of the year, a laugh a minute, edge

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Speaker 2: of your seat, thrill ride, wacky for the whole family.

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Speaker 2: Variety called it FAFO. For his next pick with DreamWorks,

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Speaker 2: Franzoni dug out his old concept for a gladiator focused movie,

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Speaker 2: and he pitched Spielberg. And this was the entirety of

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Speaker 2: the process that he recalled to The La Times. I

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Speaker 2: get a call from Stephen's office. You got two days

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Speaker 2: to come up with a pitch. I walk in and

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Speaker 2: Stephen goes, David, you want to do a gladiator movie

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Speaker 2: for DreamWorks. Yeah, ancient gladiators, Yeah in Rome, ancient Rome, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in the coliseum. Yeah. Okay, he says, that was it.

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Speaker 2: I said yeah, four times, that was it. That makes

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Speaker 2: me sad and mad. Yeah yeah, yeah, also ancient gladiators

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Speaker 2: as opposed to American gladiators. Oh right, right right with

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Speaker 2: drawn blaze and laser and charger and the rest the aristocrats.

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Speaker 1: By the new millennium, Hollywood's rich tradition of ancient epics

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Speaker 1: was well established, particularly by filmmakers of Spielberg, Franzoni, and

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Speaker 1: Ridley Scott's age. Arguably the Golden Age of gladiator films

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Speaker 1: began with films like Henry Costers The Robe, which I'm

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Speaker 1: not familiar with, and ces B. De Mill's The Ten Commandments,

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Speaker 1: which pushed the Roman Empire through Judeo Christian lens in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three and fifty six.

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Speaker 2: Tomill's Ten Commandments had also been filmed in nineteen twenty three,

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Speaker 2: I think also happened to Ben Herd. There's two of

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Speaker 2: these that were like shot in like Silver Age and

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Speaker 2: then Golden Age or whichever the ages were.

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Speaker 1: All these sword and sandal epics of the fifties were preceded,

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Speaker 1: of course, by Stanley Kubrick Spartacus in nineteen fifty That

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Speaker 1: was like the movie that kind of made him starring

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Speaker 1: a barrel chested. Kirk Douglas as a gladiator who started

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Speaker 1: a slave revolt. Say it with me now, rapist. Oh

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Speaker 1: that wasn't what I was going to go with. I

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Speaker 1: am spartakus, But that works too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he raped Natalie would.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, allegedly always dead.

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Speaker 2: Finally, kind of how old was he that made me

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Speaker 2: believe in god? Kirk Douglas living till one hundred and decreptitude?

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Speaker 1: Was he one O four?

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Speaker 2: No? Just shy of one O four? One hundred and three? Wow? Wow? Yep, rapist,

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Speaker 2: He's dead and in hell? Hashtag dead and in hell.

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Speaker 1: That is a new That's something I've noticed cropping up

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Speaker 1: a lot in our last bunch of episodes.

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Speaker 2: Well, it goes back to the Warrens and the Omenyville.

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Speaker 2: Hohrr guy, Oh you're right, trace the loure back to that. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 1: There's also nineteen fifty one's quo wattis?

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Speaker 2: I think?

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Speaker 1: Is how you pronounced that? Because you don't pronounce v's

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Speaker 1: in Latin. It's woe. It's like w It's the one

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Speaker 1: that I remember from Latin, starring Robert Taylor and Debor Kerr. However,

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Speaker 1: the high budget flops of nineteen sixty three is Cleopatra,

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Speaker 1: famously starring Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton in nineteen sixty four,

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Speaker 1: Is The Fall of the Roman Empire dented the genre's momentum,

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Speaker 1: making it fertile ground for parody. In nineteen sixty six,

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Speaker 1: Is A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the

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Speaker 1: Forum starring Zero Mostelle with music by Stephen Sondheim. And

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Speaker 1: also Fellini's Satrakhan in nineteen seventy, which focused on the

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Speaker 1: declining decadence of the Empire. Truly weird movie. Never seen it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a big Felini guy. I should start. You

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Speaker 1: would enjoy it?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Cool by.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy nine, Monty Python's Life of Brian was

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Speaker 1: using the trappings of the sword and sandal ethics to

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Speaker 1: mock both Christianity and the Roman Empire, and the year

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Speaker 1: following that, nineteen eighty, the disastrous spoof Airplane memorably used

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Speaker 1: gladiator movies as shorthand for a pilot's queer coded conversation

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Speaker 1: with a young boy.

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Speaker 2: What's the actual close?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you like movies about gladiators?

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Speaker 2: Jimmy, There's it's a series of it's a series of

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Speaker 2: It's g and masterclass and editing, because it's like all

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Speaker 2: this other mad cat is happening, and it just goes

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Speaker 2: back to keeps cutting back to Peter Graves's pilot character asking, Uh,

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Speaker 2: He's like what eight. Yeah, kid's name is Joey, just

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Speaker 2: like Joey. Do you like movies about gladiators? Joey? Have

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Speaker 2: you have you ever seen a grown man naked? Joey?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever been in Turkish prison? Do you like

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Speaker 2: to hang a men's locker rooms?

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Speaker 1: Anyway, It's such a great kind of random bit.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea what they what the logic behind

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Speaker 2: it was. That's what makes a truly perfect mad cap bit. Yeah, like,

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Speaker 2: let's make this guy creepy but in this very specific

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Speaker 2: way and weave it into the editing and overall pace

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Speaker 2: of this movie and not addressed. No, they don't lambshade it. Yeah, incredible,

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Speaker 2: incredible stuff. Great work.

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Speaker 1: All this to say that in the late nineties, the

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Speaker 1: Gladiator of film's influence on culture had waned Ridley Scott

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Speaker 1: acknowledged in the book Gladiator. The making of the Ridley

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Speaker 1: Scott epic Spartacus was forty years old, and Ben hur

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Speaker 1: was even before that. These movies were part of my

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Speaker 1: cinema going youth, But at the dawn of the New millennium,

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Speaker 1: I thought this might be the ideal time to revisit

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Speaker 1: what may have been the most important period of the

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Speaker 1: last two thousand years. Debatable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's Ridley Man. He talked

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Speaker 2: like that just about Breakfast.

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Speaker 1: You know, is he the one that the people made,

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Speaker 1: the that his crew made the t yes Governor, Yes, yes, Govenor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, what's the fame it? I think that was

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Speaker 2: actually on Blade Roy. Let me let me check that out.

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Speaker 2: I think it was Blade Well been Aliens. It was

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Speaker 2: an interview that he gave about Blade Runner. He gave

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Speaker 2: an interview and he said that he preferred working with

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Speaker 2: British crews because you could give them orders and they'd

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Speaker 2: say yes Governor. And then the the American crew on

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Speaker 2: Blade Runner printed up T shirts that said yes Governor,

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Speaker 2: my ass and then Scott, rather than diffuse the situation,

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Speaker 2: uh and every other British person on the set printed

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Speaker 2: up their own T shirts that read xenophobia sucks.

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Speaker 1: Not a great rebuttal but okay, but a fair point.

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Speaker 2: Is he's one of those guys man where people are

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Speaker 2: like seemed just short of making him like a David o'

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Speaker 2: russell like this man, or a Freedkin like. Nobody wants

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Speaker 2: to say that he's like an outright monster, but people

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Speaker 2: all these use all these euphemisms like demanding. It's no

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Speaker 2: secret that a Scott set is a charged one, you know,

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Speaker 2: like all they write around it and such. He's got

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Speaker 2: to have I mean, he's got some Jews, but he's

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Speaker 2: got to have dirt on someone. Anyway, This is probably

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Speaker 2: a good time to talk about the original book Daniel P.

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Speaker 2: Mannix is nineteen fifty eight Those About to Die, republished

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and one as The Way of the Gladiator.

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Speaker 2: You may remember that quote appearing in the movie, said

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Speaker 2: by Tigris of Gall in the film's penultimate fight scene.

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Speaker 2: He says, we who are about to die, salucchu Moron.

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Speaker 2: Tigris of Gall later Manix as one of those biographies that,

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Speaker 2: as mentioned earlier, were only available to white men in

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Speaker 2: the twentieth century. He was born to a naval family,

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Speaker 2: and he was set to follow in that tradition until

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Speaker 2: he flopped out of training so badly that his commandant

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Speaker 2: wrote a letter to his father saying he is definitely

402
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Speaker 2: not officer material. Now. This so traumatized the young man

403
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Speaker 2: X that he spent the next two months in bed.

404
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Speaker 2: Though in nineteen thirty one he earned a degree in

405
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Speaker 2: journalism from the University of Pennsylvania after failing out of

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Speaker 2: zoology first, Mannix did end up working for the Navy

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Speaker 2: during World War II, where he was tasked with creating

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Speaker 2: training films. After that, Wikipedia notes helpfully that Mannix's civilian

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Speaker 2: career could be briefly described as engaging in various adventurous activities,

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Speaker 2: which he filmed for lectures or wrote about in magazines

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Speaker 2: and books. One such example was the series of Collier's

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Speaker 2: articles that he turned into nineteen fifty one's Step Right Up,

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Speaker 2: a book about Mannix's experience allegedly traveling with a carnival

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Speaker 2: after college, where he supposedly learned how to be a

415
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Speaker 2: sword swallower, fire eater, stage magician, escape artist, mind reader,

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Speaker 2: and lock picker, working under the stage name The Great Zadma.

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Speaker 2: Another big thing for Mannix was hunting. He enjoyed hunting

418
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Speaker 2: creatures great and small, specializing in ancient or traditional methods

419
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Speaker 2: of doing so, like a blowgun, boomerang, or bow and arrow.

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Speaker 2: He also trained hawks and hounds, and also hunted with

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Speaker 2: a trained cheetah, otter, seabird, cormorant, all of those things

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Speaker 2: rule And then somehow, after doing all this magically funded

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Speaker 2: both he and his wife, who is like his chief

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Speaker 2: creative collaborator, would create movies, lectures, articles, books. One of

425
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: these was turned into an OSCAR nominated short called The

426
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 2: Boy in the Eagle. Here's just a Wild Thing. Mannix

427
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: witnessed a famous herpetologist person who studies reptiles, Grace Olive Wiley,

428
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 2: die in real time in front of his eyes when

429
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 2: she was fatally bitten by an Indian cobra at her

430
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: house in nineteen forty eight.

431
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: You know, I will say, and I'm being serious right now,

432
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: I find this whole story very inspiring. Going from spending

433
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: two months in bed to hunting with a trained cheetah,

434
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: it is very Yeah, there's hope.

435
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 2: Well, you know you can do anything with a strong

436
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 2: spirit and a very old white military family connection and funding. Yes.

437
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: Mannix wrote a lot on topics ranging from Frank l

438
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: Baum in the World of Oz. Frank Olbaum wrote The

439
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz. He wrote so much about Oz. Why

440
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: this guy was wildly prolific. I mean, his Wikipedia page

441
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: is endless. But apparently, other than animals and adventuring, his

442
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: big thing was oz like how that story was developed

443
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 1: or like fanfic.

444
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 2: Just like compendium like omni books about it and writings

445
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: about it.

446
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: Weird, huh.

447
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also wrote a biography of Aleister Crowley That's that's sick. Yeah.

448
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: His florid style and writing on historic topics was derided

449
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: by real life historians. One Oxford historian and historical fiction

450
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: writer called Those About to Die the worst novel ever

451
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: written set in the ancient world, pretty unambiguous, but even

452
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: without inspiring the basic script and idea of Gladiator.

453
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 2: Mannix also wrote The Fox and the I know I

454
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: buried that so deep I can't that's I would have

455
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 2: led with that. Oh my god. He wrote it.

456
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: He wrote it back in nineteen sixty seven, and it

457
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: was in sort of prolonged development hell until nineteen eighty one,

458
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: when it was released by Disney. The film adaptation was

459
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: incredibly troubled. Disney Production purchased the rights to Manic's novel

460
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: the same year it was published, in nineteen sixty seven,

461
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: but work on the film adaptation didn't start until ten

462
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: years later nineteen seventy seven, and at that time, then

463
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: Disney CEO Ron Miller wanted to use the film as

464
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: a vehicle for newer talents because the famous nine old

465
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: men of Disney's animation, these were the pioneers of the studio,

466
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: basically launched the division we're nearing retirement. Consequently, The Fox

467
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: and the Hound would be the last film that Ollie Johnson,

468
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: Frank Thomas and I can't say that name, Hooly Reitherman.

469
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: You've got to be kidding me. Nope, who are some

470
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: of the legends of Disney would ever work on? But

471
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: arguments developed between Rutherman and the younger director of the film,

472
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: Art Stevens. The younger team sided was Stevens, except for

473
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: Don Bluth, who eventually walked out of Disney based on

474
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: this whole kerfuffle, taking eleven others with him to form

475
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: his own animation studio, which you would use to then

476
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: traumatize millennials with movies like Lamb Before Time All Dogs

477
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: Go to Heaven. I remember, his movies were distinctly sadder

478
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: than Disney movies. Anyhow, this exodus forced Disney to bail

479
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: on The Fox. In the Hound's original nineteen eighty release date,

480
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: though it eventually premiered a year later in nineteen eighty one.

481
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: To enormous success. Also deeply sad. That's the TMI promise, folks,

482
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: we get from Gladiator to Fox and the Hound in

483
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: one move, really and yeah, one degree of separation off

484
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: blank check you rubes? How did this get made? Suck my? Anyway.

485
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: David Franzoni finished his first draft in April of nineteen

486
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: ninety eight, and about six months later the second draft,

487
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: completed with help from John Logan, whose credits include the

488
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 2: HBO film RKO two eight one, which Ridley Scott produced

489
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: and Oliver Stones. Any Given Sunday was completed. And this

490
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: is the last detail that you'll get about the actual script,

491
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: because there were many writers brought in and then, if

492
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 2: you believe many different parties, Ridley and Russell Crowe basically

493
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: rewrote it on set. So it's so funny to me

494
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: that David Franzoni got a three picture deal out of

495
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,959
Speaker 2: one script that he wrote, and his other most famous

496
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: one had like charitably four other people writing it.

497
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: Uh.

498
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 2: Franzoni told Creative Screenwriting dot Com that he studiously ignored

499
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: influences from the rich history of Hollywood sword and sandal flicks,

500
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: instead looking to the nineteen sixties and early seventies doomed

501
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 2: hero canon like Easy Writer, Five Easy Pieces, more films

502
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: with easy in the title one such and Jack mcafoe

503
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: of them, Yeah One Flew Over the Cougar's Nest, oh

504
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 2: and nineteen seventy one's classic badass driving movie Vanishing Point. Unfortunately,

505
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: there was a back and forth with the studios and

506
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: with Scott and Crow once they were all brought on board,

507
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: hence why the film is ultimately credited to not just

508
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 2: David Franzoni, but John Logan and William Nicholson and I'm

509
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: uncredited Ridley Scott and Russell Crowe. John and Williams's influences

510
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: on the shooting drafts were indelible, but there were too

511
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: many screenwriters involved, Franzoni said, although he ultimately blamed the studio,

512
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: the big differences were between competing drafts, where the studio

513
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: was trying to enforce their rules on how a hit

514
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: movie was composed. Studio is one of the usual audience

515
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 2: friendly stuff, such as happy endings and heroes triumphing over adversity.

516
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: For example, Franzoni wanted to begin the movie with Maximus's

517
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: death and then work backwards from there. Irascible King Ridley

518
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: Scott came aboard without even seeing a script. Producer Walter

519
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: Parks met with Scott, who then had just wrapped Gi

520
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: Jane with Demi Moore, and simply pulled up a nineteenth

521
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: century painting. Ridley Scott told Variety, I'm a very visual

522
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: driven director. Walter Parks opened a picture of a painting

523
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: called Pelisse Verso Latin with a turned thumb by a

524
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: fellow called Jean Leon Jerome. It shows the armored man

525
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: with the TUNEI fork that would kill You, standing over

526
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: a netted victim, which is a perfect and poetic description

527
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: of a painting of a gladiator. The armored man with

528
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: the tune of fork that would kill you. He's looking

529
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: up for Italians.

530
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: See if that comes out.

531
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: I want to Google translate that. I'll do it while

532
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: you're reading. Um. He's looking up at a black marble wall,

533
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: at this purple faced nero out of his mind on

534
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: wine or water. Really, it's a weird dude. This is

535
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: a weird quote. He's got a thumbs down and I

536
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: stared at it for a moment, and it was like

537
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: a flash. When you're experienced like me, you can do

538
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: a little knee jerk flash decision and normally it's accurate.

539
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: So I said, I'll do it. Park said, hang on,

540
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: you don't know what the story is about. I said,

541
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: I don't care. I'll do it, and that was it.

542
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: I just want to observe that they got on dream

543
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: Works by saying yeah four times, and they got Ridley

544
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: Scott by showing them a painting, painting that they didn't do.

545
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: Truly a blessed industry. Franzoni said that as he and

546
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: Really discussed the film, they continued to ignore Hollywood's tradition

547
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: of gladiator movies. He told Variety that some of the

548
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: movies that Ridley and I watched and talked about were

549
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: the aforementioned All Quiet on the Western Front and ladoce

550
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: Vita and The Conformist. I don't know that film off

551
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: the top of my head. The only Roman film I'm

552
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: pretty sure Ridley looked at was satirra Con.

553
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: As far as casting, Franzoni recalled the Yahoo Mel Gibson

554
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: and Antonio Banderiz are both considered for the role of Maximus.

555
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: Gibson would have been coming off Brave Heart and Benderris

556
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: had probably just done Mask of Zorro. Oh yeah, these

557
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: were just the regular Zorro.

558
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not mad at either of those.

559
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I did Gibson do The Patriot before or

560
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: after this? And it doesn't matter. We don't need to

561
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: talk about him.

562
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: There are a couple of actors that Steven Spielberg felt

563
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: he needed to go to because of his relationship with them.

564
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: This is Franzoni talking, and we were all sort of

565
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: hoping they'd say no. One of those actors was apparently

566
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise, who I cannot imagine as a gladiator. I

567
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: know he played a samurai and that was weird too.

568
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: I just the greatest White Savior, like the most hilarious

569
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: white Savior movie of all time.

570
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Ultimately they went with Russell Crowe,

571
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: who was then hot off of La Confidential, and those

572
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: has been reported that Mel Gibson turned himself down on

573
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: the basis of age. Ridley Scott told CNN in two

574
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: thousand that Russell was really always my first choice. I

575
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: noticed him maybe five years ago in Romper's Stomper, which

576
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with, and I.

577
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: Thought it was great. It's a title little, low budget

578
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: movie about Australian Nazis. He is genuinely terrifying in it

579
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: in the forties, and I thought he was someone worth watching.

580
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: Russell crowetl Variety. I read the script and I thought

581
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: it wasn't a.

582
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: Movie devastating critical analysis. Then producer Walter Parks said, it's

583
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty four a d. You're a Roman

584
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: general and you're going to be directed by Ridley Scott,

585
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: and that was enough for me to want to talk

586
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: to Ridley doesn't think much.

587
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a good pitch, so you want to

588
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 2: punch this in Later. The Italian title of a painting

589
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: called The Armored Man with the tune of Fork that

590
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: Would Kill You is Luomo corrato conra fouquetta da tono

591
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: key ti uchrebe. Sounds like a Jallo title that would

592
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: have been directed by Yeah, Daria Argento. The pronunciation all

593
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: these languages is so good. I just thought having I

594
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: didn't take I did take Italian in college. At least

595
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: I got something out of it.

596
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: Gladiator cast was filled out by a roster of who's

597
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: who British actors like Oliver Reed and Richard Harris, as

598
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: well as jimmen holnsu Gemon Gimon Honsu fresh off Amistad,

599
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: and there was also Connie Nielsen and also a very

600
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: young Joaquin Phoenix. It's been said that Jennifer Lopez. I

601
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: don't know why I said her name like that. It's

602
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: been said that Jennifer Lopez was in the running for

603
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: Nielsen's part, but producer Douglas Wick shot that.

604
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: Down in Any of You with the Huffington Post in

605
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. It's funny because when I didn't throw this

606
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: in anywhere else but Joaquin Phoenix when he got on

607
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: set for when he met Johnny Cash for Walk the Line,

608
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: Johnny Cash just started quoting Gladiator ride him. I could hello,

609
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: walking Hello, Joaquin. I loved your work and Gladiator am

610
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: I not merciful good stuff? I was gonna say, those

611
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: who are about to die, salute you, those who are

612
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: about to die Walking the Line, those are about to

613
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: I in Reno just to watch them die. Anything there,

614
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: no matter. It is a brainstorm, yes, and screenwriter friend zone.

615
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: He said, my wife and I will never forget the

616
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: day they sent.

617
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: Over Waquin's audition tape because everyone was like Joaquin Phoenix.

618
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: Isn't he some kind of stone or surf kid? The

619
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: audition tape was a knockout. It was mind boggling. Jude

620
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: Law was also in the running but got knocked out

621
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: by said tape. That's so weird because he I never

622
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: really thought of this until now. They both kind of

623
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: look the same.

624
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Judlaw has that, you know, as he gained

625
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: weight and drink drank more, he had that British tendency

626
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: of all British men turning and lost some of his harea,

627
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: that British thing were all men turn into Phil Collins,

628
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 2: that the British face naturally wants to become a flat,

629
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: a flat circle with little hair on top. But then

630
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: he got back in control of it and got the

631
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: jaw line back. But around this time he did have

632
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: that sort of fay aristocratic mia from talent to mister

633
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: Ripley that would have I think sold him as this.

634
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: And then Gatica, I always think of him, and too

635
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: kind of think I.

636
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: Ever think about Gatka has when from his always study,

637
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: when Charlie gets uh, he's trying to rabble rouse and

638
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: instead of yelling Attica like in Dog Day Afternoon, he

639
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 2: starts yelling Gatica the funniest throw ray jokes of all time.

640
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: But even with this cast in place, the arguments of

641
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: the script continued. Connie Nielsen weighed in obsensively with notes

642
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: for her character. Those she wound up just correcting weird

643
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: bits of anachronistic phrasing. I had a line where it

644
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: just said the police state, and it's like, the police state.

645
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: Do you want me to actually use that phrase or

646
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: the phrase put it in a museum. I don't think

647
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: at the time that people consider the word museum the

648
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: same way we consider it a museum today.

649
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 2: I you know, it's weird because I kept reading things

650
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: about like in all these trivia, like Connie Nilssen was

651
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 2: tapped for her extensive knowledge of Roman history, and I

652
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: couldn't find if she was actually that or if she

653
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: just went through the script, and like common sense was like,

654
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: that's dumb. We wouldn't say that in Rome. But either way,

655
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: salute to Connie Nilsen.

656
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: These problems persisted even as the films one hundred and

657
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: three million dollar budgeted production got underway. Russell Croll told

658
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: Radio one and twenty sixteen we had twenty one pages

659
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: when we started shooting.

660
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: It's the dumbest possible way to make a film.

661
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: At one point in time, Ridley gave the crew the

662
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: day off because we simply didn't know what we were going

663
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: to shoot the next day. That is my worst nightmare.

664
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean that's horrifying.

665
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. According to David S.

666
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: Cohen in his book Screenplays, freen Joni's original draft is

667
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: quote different in almost every detail from the finished movie.

668
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: Or Ridley Scott told Variety, in the first act the

669
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: Battle of Germania, Russell was saying, what the bloody hell

670
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 2: am I going to say? And I said, well, there's

671
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: going to be a bird on a and you're going

672
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: to look at this robin, and how ironic this robin

673
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: is in the field of battle where we're going to

674
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: see a blood bath. So he went okay, and he

675
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: looks at this twig and imagines a robin. Then he said,

676
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 2: but what the am I gonna say? I said, I

677
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: don't know. Why don't you just say, hmm, morning, it

678
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: looks like snow, which he does in the film. Again,

679
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: I really like Russell Crowe for nice guys, but his

680
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 2: his loudish Australianism is so godamn funny in every quote

681
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: that he gave or excited to, saying in this movie.

682
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: We need to talk about show you my passions. I

683
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: feel like this is probably a good moment.

684
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: Yes, my time, my all time favorite celebrity tweet. Russell

685
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: crow is very funny on Twitter. At one point he

686
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: was just live tweeting his entire workout thing because his

687
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: weight yo yo's so much for rolls and everything. So

688
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 2: there's like a string of tweets from twenty thirteen where

689
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: it's just like leg press two hundred pounds, bicep two

690
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 2: hundred pounds, forty minutes on treadmill, like all individually nested

691
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: as replies. Let me find the aforementioned explain my passions tweet.

692
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: Someone was tweeting at him. I believe about Oh yes so,

693
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: Russell Crowe tweeted fight back, humiliation is news, denile of

694
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: climate change, etri it over education. Media should not be

695
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: the enemy of progress. Brendan McClaskey at T Bones thirty

696
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 2: two on Twitter replied at Russell Crowe, li rural Hollywood.

697
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: Just keep acting, pretty boy, leave politics alone. Russell Crowe

698
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: at T Bones thirty two, Simple facts. I'm not pretty.

699
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm not your boy, you simpleton, Send me your address

700
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 2: so I can visit you and explain my passions. No period.

701
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: It is the perfect threat. I love it so much.

702
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 2: There's like there's been a trend like on Twitter lately

703
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: or I don't know lately pass a couple of year

704
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: of variations on what if I came to your house

705
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: with a weapon or something like that. But send me

706
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: your address so I can visit you and explain my

707
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 2: passions is the rawest line of all time. Anyway, Hell

708
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 2: was I talking about? Uh oh yeah? So Ridley Scott,

709
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: David Franzoni, Russell crow would sit together after day of

710
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: filming as new bits of writing would come in, and

711
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: over whiskey and cigars, they would just decide what was

712
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: going to stay for the next day of shooting. These

713
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: editing sessions occasionally crossed over into real on set disputes.

714
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 2: Writer William Nicholson recalled to The Daily Mail that Russell

715
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: Crowe said to him one day, your lines are garbage,

716
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: But I'm the gradiest actor in the world, and I

717
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: can make even garbage sound good. That's bad, I'm not

718
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: dialed into it, Nicholson added. And the funny thing is

719
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: that it's true extremely beta move. Okay, the lines weren't garbage,

720
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: and he was a bit aggressive, but he is a

721
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: great actor, so his occasional fits of arrogance didn't bother

722
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 2: me at all. Richard Harris, who was playing Marcus Aurelius,

723
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: was too old for the and took a more dignified route.

724
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: He simply ignored all rewrites as they came in for

725
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 2: his scenes and said the original lines. This all gets

726
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 2: so much funnier to me when you learn that throughout

727
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 2: filming Ridley Scott wore the red USS Alabama navy hat

728
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: that Gene Hackman wears and cribs and tide. It was

729
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 2: given to him by his brother Tony Scott, who directed

730
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: that film. So in all these onset photos you can

731
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: see Ridley Scott with his like veteran USS Alabama with

732
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: the navy wings, like red trucker hat. This is all anyway.

733
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 2: A Time magazine article from May of two thousand and

734
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 2: went a little further detailing Crow's shenanigans on the set

735
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: of Gladiator. They quoted a DreamWorks executive who said Russell

736
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: was not well behaved. He tried to rewrite the entire

737
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: script on the spot. You know, the big line in

738
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 2: the trailer in this life for the next, I will

739
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 2: have my vengeance. At first he absolutely refused to say it.

740
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: He did a lot of posturing and put the fear

741
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: of God into some people. Thankfully, Ridley never yelled. He

742
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: was the voice of reason dealing with many unreasonable factors,

743
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 2: not the least of which was his lead. There was

744
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 2: an Entertainment Weekly article in which Crow remembered originally pushing

745
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: Ridley Scott to let him voice Maximus with a Spanish accent,

746
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: since the character is from the Iberian Peninsula and he's

747
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: referred to thusly as the Spaniard, which is a bit

748
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: of historical inaccuracy. Ridley Scott pushed back and asked for

749
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: the generic British you know received pronunciation style accent, which

750
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: Crow said ended up as Royal Shakespeare Company, two pints

751
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 2: after Lunch. As I mentioned earlier, this is sort of

752
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 2: the ground zero or assent for I guess it really

753
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: started with La Confidential, where he plays like a like

754
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 2: a muscle bound passionate La police Detective. But this is

755
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: all in the on ramp bleeding up to South Park's

756
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 2: depiction of Russell Crowe as having a show called Russell

757
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 2: Crowe's fighting round the world, which is just that a

758
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: very cartoonish Australian accent and Russell Crowe just travel log

759
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: style but just getting into fights. The phone throwing thing

760
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: is at one point in New York he'd like literally

761
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: hawked a desk phone at a clerk, I believe, and

762
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: was arrested for it. But also from that time magazine

763
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: article is the quote a hard drinking perfectionist Crow got

764
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: into brawls with villagers on one occasion and laid such

765
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 2: waste to his rented villa in Morocco that the caretaker

766
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 2: protested to Ridley Scott saying he must leave. He's violating

767
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: every tenant of the Quran. Another hilarious story about Crowe, Sorry,

768
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: one more, well, a couple more, Sorry, two more. Russell

769
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 2: Crowe once made reference to George Clooney having quote sold

770
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: out when Clooney was doing then espresso commercials. George Clooney

771
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 2: supposedly didn't take kindly to this, and ward traveled about

772
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: this through Hollywood to Russell Crowe. Russell Crowe's apology to

773
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: Clooney was a mail package that included a CD of

774
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: Russell Crowe's band thirty odd Foot of Grunts, a book

775
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 2: of Russell Crowe's poetry, and handwritten note saying he had

776
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: been misquoted. Fro did supposedly improvise the line at my

777
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: signal unleash hell in the Battle of Germania, which is

778
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: incredibly raw, so we can call it a wash. He

779
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: also did the maximum speech. He also asked to write

780
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: a speech when the guy says like, what is going

781
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: home mean to you? Or something? And he just jotted

782
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: that speech down thinking about his ranch in Australia, which

783
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: is a great Yeah, it's a nice little moment as

784
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: you meditate on that. We'll be right back with more

785
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 2: too much information after these messages.

786
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: But even Russell Crowe couldn't compare it to one of

787
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: his forebears. In on set hell Raising, we're talking about

788
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: all of read, oh read. I don't think he's a

789
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: big deal in America, but he was a legend in England,

790
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: like Sean Connery, Michael Caine, Peter O'Toole, Richard Burton. Contemporary

791
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: 's actually an incredible book called hell Raisers about all

792
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: those guys in the fifties and sixties who you know,

793
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: doing stuff. But we really shouldn't be glorifying but.

794
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 2: Nope, really incredibly problematic drinking and abuse. Yeah. I think

795
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: Oliver Reed is most known in this country for playing

796
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 2: Bill Sikes in Oliver Yeah, yeah, yeah, and Oliver maybe

797
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: in Werewolf After Midnight, one of the werewolf of I

798
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 2: think it's Werewolf at either at midnight or after midnight,

799
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 2: the timing doesn't matter. He was a werewolf.

800
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: Oh, he's in Tommy too. He's in the Who's Movie

801
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: at that poss of Tommy's. He's the dad or the

802
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: step dad. I forget. He's in Margaret's Husband. In England.

803
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: He's mostly known for being him drinking, for drinking. Yeah,

804
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: basically he was cast as a proximous and Ridley Scott

805
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: warned Red again known through his drinking and whacked out

806
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: behavior on sets to keep things cool, really fought really

807
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: hard for Oliver Reed. German weightlifter Ralph Mohler, who plays

808
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: the towering gladiator Hagen, told Yahoo in an interview he

809
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: later went to Oliver and said, look, they didn't want you,

810
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: but I want you. Don't let me down, and he

811
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: never did until he died three weeks before the movie ended.

812
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 2: But before that, let's just get into.

813
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: Exactly why a lot of people didn't want Oliver reed.

814
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: I want to do a quick lightning round of anecdotes

815
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: of this man. He famously drank one hundred and twenty

816
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: six pints in a twenty four hour sitting, and celebrated

817
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: this accomplishment by performing a horizontal handstand atop the bar.

818
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 2: He invented, Heigel, I've kept.

819
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: These from Heigel, so I want to get your authentic

820
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: reactions to these. He invented a drink that he called

821
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: gunk gu n K, which consisted of filling an ice

822
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: bucket with a little bit of every single drink from

823
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 1: every bottle in whatever. The bar he was currently sitting

824
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: in had. Oh so, it's like Long Island iced tea.

825
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: It's like the h bomb equivalent of Long Island iced tea.

826
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: I was just saying, it's this. Did they call it

827
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: a suicide run when you do with the soda fountain.

828
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: I've never heard that. Maybe I made that up. I

829
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: don't know.

830
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: His drinking shockingly never impacted his work on set, but

831
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: it cost him a high profile part in a Steve

832
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: McQueen movie. Apparently, Steve McQueen flew over to England to

833
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: meet with him and talk about a role.

834
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: I don't actually know what role is.

835
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: Offhand, they went on what's been described as a legendary

836
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: pub crawl, which culminated in Reid becoming ill and vomiting

837
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: all down Steve McQueen's front, and that kind of cooled

838
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: the whole working together thing. During the filming of the

839
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: movie The Sellout, when Oliver Reed learned how much room

840
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: service drinks cost, he ordered boxes of wine and spirits

841
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,959
Speaker 1: shipped to his hotel room and turned his suite into

842
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: a pub.

843
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 2: Hell yeah.

844
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: While on break filming in Durango, Oliver Reed noticed the

845
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: production assistant and his wife sitting at the table in

846
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: the restaurant in which he was drinking. Reid then politely

847
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: approached them, in the form of the man and his

848
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: wife that they should go back to the hotel room

849
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: because quote, I'm going to smash this place up in

850
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: ten minutes, and I wouldn't want to hurt you or

851
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: your lady. The couple left the restaurant just as Reid

852
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: hurled tooth tables through the window, not one but two.

853
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: He was arrested once for brawling in a pub. I

854
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: think this was a separate incident, and he apologized to

855
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: the court and sent flowers to all the responding police officers.

856
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 2: Ow, yeah, he's a real what's the no half measures?

857
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: Isn't that a bit from uh A breaking bad? Yeah?

858
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: He was a real no half measures kind of drinker. Uh.

859
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: Once, this is a sort of a quieter act of destruction.

860
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: Upset with the lighting in his home after an evening

861
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: of drinking, he walked through his house and just punched

862
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 1: out all of the light bulbs.

863
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: Nice.

864
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: Another occasion, impatient for New Year's to begin, he moved

865
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: his clock ahead, called at the New Year, and celebrated

866
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: by firing his shot good in the air and then

867
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: shooting the clock.

868
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 2: I mean making that kind of shot. Yeah.

869
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well we don't know how far away he was.

870
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: It could have been a point play.

871
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was someone holding the clock still he.

872
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: Was actually you know what We talked about him being

873
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: more famous in America for being an oliver. He was

874
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: probably most famous as a talk show guest, both in

875
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 1: the UK and the United States, because he would famously

876
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: show up drunk. Yes he was. His most infamous incident

877
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: in the UK was when of many there are probably

878
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: half a dozen or maybe even a dozen famous instances

879
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: of him on talk shows. But the most notorious is

880
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: him on a show called After Dark, when he showed

881
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: up drunk and offended the feminist writer Kate Millet by

882
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: telling her give us a kiss, big not good.

883
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 2: He went on The Tonight.

884
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: Show frequently drunk and would share his belief that a

885
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: women's place was in the kitchen. Fellow guest Shelley Winters

886
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: naturally took offence and eventually dumped her glass of bourbon

887
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: on his head. Read would then appear on a UK

888
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: chat show months later to defend himself and claim that

889
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: those comments on the Tonight Show to Shelley Winners were

890
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: tongue in cheek designed to get a rise out of her.

891
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: His argument was kind of undercut on this British interview

892
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: by falling off his chair and making his exit from

893
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: the show by crawling away. He was on Letterman a

894
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: bunch of times, and when Letterman tried to ask him

895
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: about an incident when he challenged Lee Marvin to a

896
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: drinking contest, Reid replied, that's hearsay. When Letterman continued with

897
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: this line of questioning, a seemingly genuinely angry Reid told

898
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: Letterman that the showrunners knew that this topic was not

899
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: to be discussed, and so he said, let's cool it

900
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: with that one, get to a new subject. I love

901
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: trees and boats. Cool, God bless him.

902
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I would talk about trees and boats

903
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 2: with Allie Reid.

904
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. And finally, while promoting the film Castaway, Oliver Reid

905
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: appeared as a guest on the British talk show Aspell

906
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: and Company. He walked on set carrying a picture of

907
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: gin and orange juice.

908
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 2: Hell Yeah, gin and juice Baby, ripped off.

909
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: His sport coat and drunkenly sang along with the show's

910
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: band when he sat on the couch. Another guest on

911
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: the show asked Reid why do you drink? And Reid

912
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: offered this all time quote. It's probably familiar to most

913
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: of you.

914
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: Why do you drink?

915
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: Because the finest people I've ever met in my life

916
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: are in pubs.

917
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: Oliver read ladies and gentlemen.

918
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: But his reputation had caught up with him by the

919
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: time Ridley Scott cast him again, cast him against the

920
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: advice of every studio, and Reid was upset by how

921
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: low his stock had sung. He was complaining to director

922
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: Michael Winner that Oliver Reid actually wanted him to audition

923
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: because you know, oh yeah, people at this stage in

924
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: their career, you know audition. Shelley Winters actually famously was

925
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: asked to audition once and she showed up with a

926
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: big bag, reached in and pulled out an oscar and

927
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: slammed it on the table and said, here's my TV.

928
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: Reached in and pulled that her second oscar and slammed

929
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: it on the table and said, here's my head shot.

930
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: And I believe she was given the role. So yeah.

931
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: Reid was not happy about being asked to audition, but

932
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: director Michael Winners, who was very close to him, said, oh,

933
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 1: he don't with me. You're not a FA star, you're

934
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: out of work. You're not old enough to retire, so

935
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: you need a third act to your career. Obviously, they

936
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: think if you're working with me, you can't be as

937
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: drunk as people think you are. So go to Ridley

938
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: and read end of story. And if he wants you

939
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: to read twice, you read twice. I'm getting like Don

940
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: Draper and oh you know, watch Man Man nevermind and.

941
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: Ollie Bless his soul.

942
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: He was sober from months before filming, and he made

943
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: assurances to Ridley Scott that his drinking wouldn't be a factor.

944
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,720
Speaker 1: He would limit it only to weekends, and his longtime

945
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: friend fellow Gladiator CASTMATEE David Hemmings, who played Cassius, also

946
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: promised Ridley Scott that he'd look after Reid. Nevertheless, Oh,

947
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: I felt you got You should take this story. Tell

948
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 1: us about the sad, tragic, comic demise of Oliver Reed.

949
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it depends on how you. He went

950
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 2: down swaying few things he did. He did. On the

951
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: day of May second, nineteen ninety nine, the sixty one

952
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 2: year old Reid was parked in a bar in Malta

953
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: with his wife Josephine, and some Maltese friends for lunch

954
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: break when a group of sailors from the Royal Navy

955
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 2: Frigate HMS Cumberland, who were on shore leave, strolled into

956
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 2: the bar. Eight beers in and with only one scene

957
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 2: left to film, Reid was about to head back to

958
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: his hotel when, as the story goes, he was recognized

959
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 2: by some of the officers who called out, shall we

960
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 2: have a drink Alie, which activates something in his brain.

961
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 2: So Reid sits down with these guys and this all

962
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: comes from. None of the Western newspapers had this. This

963
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: is a Spanish newspaper, El Paiees who all of this

964
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 2: detail comes from so grain of salt, but print the legend. Yeah.

965
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: In addition to the eight beers, he'd already had read

966
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 2: down a dozen double shot of rum while chatting with

967
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 2: these naval men and as arm wrestling matches subsequently piled

968
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 2: up also had a bottle of whiskey next to him.

969
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 2: He supposedly won five arm wrestling matches against British navelmen

970
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 2: at age sixty one. Whilsh Shoust at the age of

971
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: sixty one will drunker than you or anyone you know

972
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 2: has ever been signed autographs, hugged these guys and bid farewell,

973
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: and then just said I don't feel very well, collapsed

974
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: on the floor and died in the ambulance before they

975
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: made it to the hospital. He was buried in Bruney

976
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: Graveyard in Churchtown, Ireland, where he'd been living, and his

977
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 2: epitaph reads he made the air move.

978
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I don't even know what that means, but

979
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: that's amazing.

980
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 2: He sure did read more or less predicted his own

981
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 2: death during a nineteen ninety four appearance on something called

982
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: The Obituaries Show, saying I died in a bar of

983
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 2: a heart attack, full of laughter.

984
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: You know you can't get sev and you read that.

985
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: You don't want to valorize much of that, but you

986
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 2: know the man went out on his own terms. Russell

987
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: Crowe had some very terrible things to say about him,

988
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: but we'll grow right. Oliver Reed's final scene, somewhat weirdly,

989
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 2: was his character's death scene, in which he repeats a

990
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 2: bit of a line from earlier in the film. We

991
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: mortals are but shadows and dust. A clause in the

992
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 2: production's insurance contract would have allowed them to reshoot all

993
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: of Reid's scenes with another actor at a cost of

994
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: about twenty five million, even though this would have been

995
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 2: paid for by the insurer. Ridley Scott felt that the

996
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: cast and crew were exhausted by this point because the

997
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: movie was shot in sequence, so this would have been

998
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 2: near it if they were writing it. Yeah, exactly, so

999
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 2: they were. This is ultimately at the end of both

1000
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: filming and the plot of the movie. So he accomplished

1001
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,760
Speaker 2: the final scene of Reid's character by finding an actor

1002
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 2: of his similar build and then they just pay did

1003
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 2: a CGI version of Reid's face over him and then

1004
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: overdubbed a bit of dialogue from an alternate take of

1005
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 2: that earlier scene. So this is a really early example

1006
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: of how what they could do with CGI, and I

1007
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: think it won Best Visual Effects at the Oscars, or

1008
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 2: at least was nominated for it. So it's a really

1009
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: As I said earlier, it's a great example of tasteful CGI,

1010
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 2: which Ridley has apparently not leaned into. In the New One,

1011
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 2: Iranian British actor Omit Djili, who's also known for his

1012
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: work in nineteen ninety nine's The Mummy, he has a

1013
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 2: tremendous story about working with Reid on the set of Gladiator.

1014
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 2: He says he was scared of Oliver Reed, going back

1015
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: to again read's Roland Oliver. They wrote this op ed

1016
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: for The Guardian, which we'll quote now. In the script,

1017
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 2: Ali was meant to punch me in the face and

1018
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 2: say you sold me queer giraffes. I'd worked with some

1019
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 2: of the crew a few months before in the Mummy

1020
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: and they knew I was scared of Oli, so they

1021
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 2: decided to play a trick on me. They thought it

1022
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: would be funny to get Oli to grab me by

1023
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 2: the nuts during the scene. Ollie said, do you mind

1024
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: if I really grab you hard to make it authentic?

1025
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: I said fine, so he did. Usually you do the scene,

1026
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: they say cut and you have a few minutes to

1027
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 2: reset before you go again. Ollie continued to hold my

1028
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 2: nuts during the reset. I was so frightened of him

1029
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: that I thought it was part of his acting process,

1030
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 2: so I allowed him to hold me while we talked

1031
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 2: about the food in the hotel. By take three, I

1032
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: became aware of a massaging sensation. By take four, he said,

1033
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 2: you do realize this is a wind up, don't you.

1034
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 2: Everyone thought it was so funny they kept it in

1035
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: the final cut and he didn't have to punch me.

1036
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 2: Rip Oliver reed.

1037
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 1: Makes me sad, something about like the Line and Winter

1038
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 1: type stuff with like guys, powerful guys having the power diminished. Yeah,

1039
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,959
Speaker 1: I mean again, it's not a healthy thing.

1040
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 2: But no, no, no, but it's you know, there's a

1041
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 2: sort of you filter through the Jim Morrison lens and

1042
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: there's this sort of drunken Jester archetype that people glom onto.

1043
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 2: And you know again, man, he went out on his

1044
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 2: own terms.

1045
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,760
Speaker 1: I didn't even mean that, like anytime, like an older

1046
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: guy who is like a champion of something goes head

1047
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: to head with like the younger guy and struggles a

1048
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: bit that just like hits a certain part in me.

1049
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, don't drink like that. Well you can

1050
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: have you can have a longer off rampant Like no,

1051
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: I don't even mean like I don't know.

1052
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's I'm not even intentionally thinking about the

1053
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: Jake Ball Mike Tyson thing, like I oh yeah, not

1054
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: even just any anything like that, any kind of feet

1055
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: of skill or talent.

1056
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:42,959
Speaker 2: Sure, man, I guess it's the line in winter. Yeah,

1057
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 2: the lion in the very drunk lion in the Multese bar.

1058
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 2: Arm wrestling naval Navy men. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm sorry,

1059
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 2: Like it's just so imagine being the Navy. The Navy

1060
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 2: guy who was like I'll over read housed, beat me

1061
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: in arm wrestling and then died. I would dine out

1062
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: on that story for the rest of my life.

1063
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: It took the last bit of his strength to beat

1064
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: me in arm wrestling. There are some truly incredible, like

1065
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: just candid photos of oliveried in bars, like clearly just

1066
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: taken by other patrons of like Oliver Reed stacking up

1067
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: all of his glasses into this like giant pillar that

1068
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: reaches the ceiling of all these pint glasses.

1069
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 2: Oh, the wizard wand oh yeah, is that a term? Uh?

1070
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 2: You know you can do that with if you have

1071
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: a roll at duct tapeley you're drinking, you just do

1072
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: that with all your empties, ah, wizard staff. Yeah. An

1073
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: on set death is never easy, but it must have,

1074
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: especially rattled Joaquin Phoenix. Sorry, serious voice. An on set

1075
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 2: death is never easy, but it must have especially ratted

1076
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 2: Joaquin Phoenix, who was returning to the screen for the

1077
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 2: first time since the death of his brother River from

1078
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 2: a drug overdose in West Hollywood on Halloween nineteen ninety three.

1079
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 2: Phoenix told Collider in twenty eighteen, Gladiator was one of

1080
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 2: the most intimidating films I've done, because it was the

1081
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: first set I went on that was just massive. It

1082
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 2: looked like it was acres of land and tons of

1083
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 2: trucks and trailers and you know, hundreds of extras, multiple cameras. Suddenly,

1084
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 2: the scale of this hit me, and I was overwhelmed

1085
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: by that. I didn't think I was going to be

1086
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 2: able to make it through. He continued. I went to

1087
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: Ridley Scott and said, I don't know what to do.

1088
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 2: I just can't do this. I don't know what you're

1089
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 2: gonna do. This just isn't going to be possible. And

1090
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: Ridley was really smart. He just shot me for four

1091
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 2: hours and he didn't put film in the camera. The

1092
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: first scene that I did, I was really nervous, and

1093
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: we shot I don't know, an unbelievable amount of takes,

1094
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 2: a shocking amount, over and over again. At some point

1095
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 2: at the end, after hours, Scott finally said, okay, we

1096
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 2: got it. And then later on when we were working

1097
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 2: on the film, he told me that he hadn't been

1098
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: putting film in the camera for like the first thirty takes.

1099
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: But everybody did everything. The camera did its movements, sound people,

1100
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 2: everyone behaved as if we were shooting takes. I don't

1101
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 2: understand that. Well, you just get all the nervousness out

1102
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: of his system.

1103
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: I guess it.

1104
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 2: Was another of Oliver Reed's hell raising peers who had

1105
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 2: a hand in helping Phoenix. Russell Crowe told the news

1106
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 2: service w E N N. Joaquin was very nervous on

1107
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 2: the set and I went to Richard Harris and I said, mate,

1108
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 2: what are we going to do with this kid? He's

1109
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 2: asking me to abuse him before takes so Richard said,

1110
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 2: let's get him pissed through a number of hours and

1111
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 2: a number of cans of Guinness. I got the point

1112
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: across to Joaquin that is actually an internal journey and

1113
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: everything he needs to do with the character lives within him.

1114
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: Just imagining like a all right mate, an act of

1115
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:44,919
Speaker 2: prepas handing of a copy of the artists way. Yeah,

1116
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 2: how many affirmations you been doing in the morning? I

1117
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 2: love here, You're great, you can it lives within you.

1118
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: May It's amazing that your your sober Australian voice is

1119
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: kinda B minus is nailed.

1120
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: It's incredible. Another great Oliver Reed's story, Richard Harris took

1121
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 2: to Russell Crowe, but Oliver Reed hated him instantly and

1122
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: challenged him to a fight. At one point, Russell Crow

1123
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 2: spoke very uncharitably of him in GQ, after saying that

1124
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 2: he wouldn't in twenty ten. He said, I never got

1125
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 2: on with Oli. He has visited me in dreams and

1126
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 2: asked me to talk kindly of him, so I should,

1127
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: but we never had a pleasant conversation. And then he

1128
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 2: goes on to say some very uncharitable things. He says

1129
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 2: something like disgusting and undignified the way that he behaved,

1130
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: like striding down the set and wanting to fight people

1131
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: drunk in the middle of the day and dying in

1132
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: your own piss and vomit and like blah blah blah

1133
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 2: blah blah.

1134
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: Who's that sound like minus the dying in your own

1135
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: pisson fone?

1136
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 2: I know, I know, right, yeah, bit rich. During the

1137
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 2: film's press tour, Russell Kurt told Variety there were a

1138
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 2: lot of people in that strange journalistic habit who just

1139
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,479
Speaker 2: wanted to poke that fire and kept asking Joaquin about

1140
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 2: his brother and then about his relationship with me, because

1141
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 2: we have that in the film. At one point we

1142
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 2: were doing some press conference and he just said something

1143
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 2: along the lines of look, Russo treated me like a brother,

1144
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 2: and it just hit me in a really heavy way. Now,

1145
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 2: not to make an immediate pun on heavy, but Joaquin

1146
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 2: Phoenix also deliberately decided to gain weight as his character

1147
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 2: gained power, which Scott noticed during the dailies and mentioned

1148
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 2: to a producer the following day. Ridley explains in the

1149
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 2: DVD commentary for the film, Joaquin walks up to me.

1150
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: Commitis Joaquin. It is full regalia and armor, and he says,

1151
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 2: I hear, I look like a fat little hamster. He

1152
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 2: then didn't eat any food for weeks. But enough about

1153
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 2: all this acting and personality and stuff. Let's get to

1154
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 2: the real meat of the episode minute production details. As usual,

1155
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 2: Ridley Scott, trained Lest we Ever Forget at London's prestigious

1156
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: Royal College of Art, was heavily involved with storyboarding before

1157
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 2: filming began. Storyboard artist Sylvan de Fretz, I don't know

1158
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 2: recalled for the film's making of book. Several months out

1159
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,479
Speaker 2: Ridley will give very detailed sketches, shot by shot, blow

1160
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 2: blay blow. A couple weeks out, sketches get very rough,

1161
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 2: and the instruction's very loose because he just doesn't have

1162
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 2: the time. I'm imagining just like a stick figure with

1163
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 2: a story.

1164
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: Like blood Drops.

1165
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, looks cool. But once filming, Sylvain said, Ridly changes

1166
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 2: his mind a lot and sometimes uses the storyboard to

1167
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: get rid of ideas rather than lock them in. He's

1168
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 2: quite loose. He shoots with five six seven cameras sometimes

1169
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 2: and can be quite spontaneous. I can't say the storyboard

1170
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: particularly resembles the final film that sounds like it sucks

1171
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah anyway. Gattire was filmed in England, Morocco and Malta

1172
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 2: between January and May of nineteen ninety nine. Production designer

1173
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,959
Speaker 2: Arthur Max were called in the book we trumped around

1174
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 2: the Roman Empire for six weeks, scouting all of the

1175
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 2: existing remains in England, France, Italy, Eastern Europe and North Africa.

1176
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 2: But your access to us left of the real Rome

1177
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 2: is quite limited. All the ruins are historical monuments and

1178
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: so cannot be touched. Consequently, the film found stand ins

1179
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: for certain historical settings, and as we will get too shortly,

1180
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 2: used CGI to restore others to their period accurate glory.

1181
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: The film's opening scene, for example, is set in what

1182
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: was then Germania, a massive swath of eastern and northern Europe.

1183
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 1: Production originally wanted a film outside of Bratislava, a port

1184
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: on the Danube River, not far from where Marcus Aurelia

1185
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: is actually campaigned, but as scheduling issues pushed the filming

1186
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: into winter, shooting was switched to England and a forest

1187
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: near Farmham. Sorry. Another reason why the site was chosen

1188
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: was because production learned from England's Forestry Commission. At the

1189
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: area Bourne Woods was slated to be deforested anyway, so

1190
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,439
Speaker 1: as really Scott remembered, I said, I'll do it, I'll

1191
01:04:51,480 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 1: burn it to the ground. And they said, good, incredible sound.

1192
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 2: A phone call, yeah, and a phone call this this forest.

1193
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 2: I'll do it. I'll burn it to the ground. Click. Good.

1194
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 2: It doesn't even wait to hear the response. Yeah.

1195
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: The weather was actually astoundingly cooperative, to the point where

1196
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: Crow's last minute line about the snow was actually preceded

1197
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,439
Speaker 1: by real life snow that had started ten minutes before

1198
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: the take one rolled.

1199
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 2: That makes a bit of him not struggling with what

1200
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 2: to say, and that's so much funnier, Like he's staring

1201
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 2: at this thing, imagining a robin that'll be there and

1202
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:36,479
Speaker 2: be like, what think Russell think what he sick?

1203
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: Looks up?

1204
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it starts snowing. Really, Scott's over there waiting to

1205
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 2: roll like, well it's snowing. We'll go with that. Go

1206
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 2: with that take, do a take of that. I think

1207
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 2: his line is literally in the film, just like looks

1208
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 2: like snow has so funny? Is Russell Crow a secret idiot?

1209
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but also like a good actor.

1210
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 2: I I mean, like I said, man, I so much

1211
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: of it is colored by this reputation that makes seem

1212
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: really shy. But he is hilarious in nice guys. I

1213
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 2: don't really he has a very He's very charismatic in

1214
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 2: this era when his horizontal proportions kept up with his height,

1215
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, he's great in La Confidential. But

1216
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 2: he does just have to play a loudish, you know,

1217
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 2: walking act of violence, and he does bring a sort

1218
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 2: of wounded, heavy browed gravitas to this. I don't dislike

1219
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 2: him in this, just when you weigh it against all

1220
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: this priggish stuff that you hear, Like, okay, buddy.

1221
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: We're leaving out some of the nitty gritty that involved

1222
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: trucking thousands of extras, animals, hairdressers, makeup artists, armors, choreographers

1223
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 1: and the rest of the cast and crew needed to

1224
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: a location over an hour from London.

1225
01:06:58,200 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 2: That doesn't sound fun.

1226
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: Following the opening scene, the action moves to Morocco with

1227
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: a crew of two hundred people, which kind of sounds

1228
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 1: small to me and a cast of almost one hundred

1229
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: so does that. Where scenes of slavery, desert travel, and

1230
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: gladiatorial training were shot in and around Iite ben had

1231
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: I think how you say that. The crew used basic

1232
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: materials and local building techniques to craft thirty thousand mud

1233
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: bricks that make up the arena. The fighter's first battle

1234
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 1: in this is according to a Gladiator the making of

1235
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: the Ridley Scott Epic Making of book. But they were

1236
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: also aided by the fact that Morocco just kind of

1237
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: looked like that. David Franzoni, the screenwriter, told Yahoo. The

1238
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: reason it worked is because Ridley built the real thing.

1239
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: When you drove up to it, it looked like it

1240
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 1: was part of the city. The gladiatorial arena, the bedroom

1241
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: would come in from the desert to watch the shoot,

1242
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: and so Ridley just put them in the movie. It

1243
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: has this legitimacy to it that happened naturally. The areas

1244
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: around ie ban Hado may look familiar to folks at

1245
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: this point. It's subsequently been used in Oliver Stones two

1246
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: thousand and four epic, Alexander Releas, Scott's historical drama Kingdom

1247
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 1: of Heaven in two thousand and five, and twenty ten's

1248
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: Prince of Persia. Not to mention, portions of Game of Thrones.

1249
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 2: The biggest challenge in filming, though, was recreating ancient Rome,

1250
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 2: and in particular the forum, the Senate scenes a shot

1251
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 2: and the Colosseum the Hearts of the Empire. Production designer

1252
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 2: Arthur Max and Ridley Scott settled on Port Mifha, Salfi,

1253
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 2: where the British had constructed Fort Rica Soli in eighteen

1254
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 2: oh three. This is in Malta, conveniently done at romanesque

1255
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,600
Speaker 2: yellow limestone, aged nicely by wind and sand in the

1256
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,799
Speaker 2: intervening in nearly two centuries. All told, the fort's existing

1257
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 2: structure and its compounds and parade grounds would be used

1258
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 2: for about half the final sets seen in the movie.

1259
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 2: So if you go to this place in Malta you

1260
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 2: can see about half of Gladiator, which is tight. This

1261
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 2: not quite the real thing, but close enough. Approach served

1262
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 2: the art direction of the film as well, which pulled

1263
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 2: in influences from Modernist architect Hugh Ferris and Nazi architects

1264
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 2: like Albert Speer. Filmmakers used large scale miniatures to model

1265
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 2: the Rome sets before over one hundred British crew members

1266
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:13,719
Speaker 2: and two hundred Maltice workers took nineteen weeks to build

1267
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 2: the real thing. During the high winds and storms of

1268
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 2: what was eventually reported to be Malta's worst winter in

1269
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 2: thirty years, Production literally used one hundred percent of the

1270
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 2: plaster and plywood available in Malta and had to start

1271
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 2: importing those materials, eventually using around six hundred tons of

1272
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 2: plaster in a process that was also hampered by the

1273
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,919
Speaker 2: storms that would leave ships unable to dock and unload.

1274
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 2: This isn't like some obscure substance wood and plaster. You've

1275
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 2: taken all of it from the siland there's simply no more.

1276
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 2: Ridley puffing on a cigar, chuck it in, burn it,

1277
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 2: burn it to the ground. I don't care. The ships

1278
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 2: can unload, Ridley, burn them, bring in new ones. The

1279
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 2: real coliseum, just a historical note, was begun by the

1280
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 2: Emperor Vespasian in seventy a d. And finished about ten

1281
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 2: years later by his son Titus and then Emperor Nero,

1282
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 2: who gifted the public the grounds from his sprawling palace.

1283
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 2: So Production thought about using these existing smaller structures, before

1284
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 2: eventually determining that they would simply build a small chunk

1285
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 2: at full scale of the Colisseum and then expanded digitally

1286
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 2: so they programmed these initial scale designs into a computer

1287
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 2: used that to determine lens angles and camera movements to

1288
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,480
Speaker 2: figure out how much they would actually need for coverage.

1289
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,759
Speaker 2: This ended up being a fragment of the coliseum's first tier,

1290
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 2: about one third of the circumference of the original and

1291
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 2: fifty two feet high. Now, this also included sets for

1292
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 2: the lower portions of the arena where the gladiators enter

1293
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 2: an exit and the animals were released from. And then

1294
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 2: they also made a massive seventeen sale PVC and steel sunshade.

1295
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 2: This is somewhat historically inaccurate. In the gladiated times, they

1296
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 2: did have these massive sheets hanging over the seating crowd

1297
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,600
Speaker 2: called valarium that were necessary because of the it was

1298
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: the Mediterranean at high noon. This one was controlled by

1299
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 2: a massive system of rigs and pulleys, and they used

1300
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 2: it to light and shade the set. Accordingly, cinematographer John

1301
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 2: Matheson called it the most expensive shadow ever and it's

1302
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 2: really beautiful in the film. I mean to know that

1303
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 2: they were using this thing to generate all the kirascuro

1304
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 2: the beautiful light and shading the shafts of light that

1305
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 2: come in really something. And then The rest of the

1306
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 2: imaging of the coliseum was handled by mill Film in London.

1307
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,480
Speaker 2: They filled the structure with a combination of cardboard cutouts,

1308
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:46,680
Speaker 2: two thousand real extras and about thirty three thousand CGI spectators,

1309
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 2: while also adding the rest of the structure digitally. Scott

1310
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 2: relied on natural lighting as much as possible for the

1311
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 2: film to achieve the proper pseudo realism, but they didn't

1312
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 2: need to create much of their set dressing. For example,

1313
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 2: the elaborate mosaic floor of Commodis's Joaquin Phoenix's chambers. Those

1314
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 2: were bespoke linoleum tiles that arrived in Malta in one

1315
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 2: hundred and forty boxes, accompanied by a team of employees

1316
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 2: straight from the fabricator who spent weeks piecing them together.

1317
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 2: Movie magic, I love it. Just blank checks. Now, of course,

1318
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 2: we have to get into the most fun parts of

1319
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:30,520
Speaker 2: historical epic filmmaking. Wardrobe in weapons, costume designer Janty yeats

1320
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 2: wonderful name. She had got her start in the world

1321
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,679
Speaker 2: of high fashion, and so she did research from artists

1322
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 2: like Sir Lawrence Alma Tadema and George de la Tour,

1323
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 2: and the resulting wardrobe that she designed of it. The

1324
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 2: Emperor's family was of course the most elaborate for Connie

1325
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 2: Nielsen's wardrobe. For example, not only the raw materials, so

1326
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 2: the raw fabric has gold thread woven into it, but

1327
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 2: then there's also gold thread that's embroidered in and around

1328
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 2: all the detailing to make it subtly shimmer in lighting.

1329
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 2: All of the footwear for the film was handmade in Rome,

1330
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 2: although devout vegan Joaquin Phoenix refused to wear period correct

1331
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 2: leather and I guess was given full leather. The Royal

1332
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 2: jewelry was largely handcrafted by England's Martin Adams, although one

1333
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 2: of Connie Nielsen's rings was a two thousand year old

1334
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 2: signet ring that she found an antique store and I

1335
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 2: guess she found it, yeah, and I guess bought it

1336
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:32,640
Speaker 2: herself or build it to production which power move The

1337
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 2: armour portions of the wardrobeough had to be flexible and

1338
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 2: much lighter than they would have been in real life.

1339
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,719
Speaker 2: So some of them like Committis's beautiful like white marble

1340
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 2: armor thing that he wears that was made of rubber

1341
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 2: which was then covered in leather or I guess vegan

1342
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 2: leather in precious Little Joaquin's case, although Crow's armour, since

1343
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 2: he was fighting in it, had to be made from

1344
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 2: leather covered foam, so these things would have just been

1345
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,720
Speaker 2: like basically Halloween costumes wouild I love as opposed to

1346
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 2: like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones where

1347
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 2: they like handhampered. This sh it was just an enormous

1348
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 2: chore for people to wear. Also, fun fact for Crow

1349
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,799
Speaker 2: and his stunt doubles every single piece of his armor,

1350
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 2: not just the breastplate, but the gloves, all the different

1351
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 2: discrete little pieces had to be made twelve times over

1352
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 2: every single piece twelve times for continuity so that they

1353
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 2: could have different stages of combat wear and et cetera.

1354
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 2: Production also put together five hundred gladiator tunics out of

1355
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 2: rough linen and over ten thousand other costumes for the

1356
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 2: rest of the cast and extras. Costume supervisor Rosemary Burrows

1357
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:43,839
Speaker 2: had the fun job of supervising the quote costume villages

1358
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 2: that had to be set up to manage costume, hair

1359
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,719
Speaker 2: and makeup on location, which for the Germania shoot also

1360
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 2: included mud baths. That's right, folks, mud baths. Friend of

1361
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 2: the Pod mud babs mudbaths so that they could just

1362
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,600
Speaker 2: look disgusting and grimy, and Burrows was also responsible for

1363
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 2: finding the quaint little British ferrier. Who's that's a horse

1364
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,639
Speaker 2: equipment maker? I believe I think you're right. Yeah, who

1365
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 2: made all the film's chain mail?

1366
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 1: Oh that wasn't like like fabric made the look like

1367
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 1: real chain mail.

1368
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 2: It was real chain mail, just rings.

1369
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: On the film's DVD commentary, Ridley Scott and Russell Crowe

1370
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 1: reveal a neat easter egg emblazoned on Maximus's breastplate. He

1371
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 1: names the horses Argento and Scatto, which means silver and

1372
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 1: more or less trigger and Silver was the name of

1373
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 1: the horse ridden by the Lone Ranger, and trigger was

1374
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: the name of the horse ridden by Roy Rogers. I

1375
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 1: love that nice little bit of Americana there hit in

1376
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:40,679
Speaker 1: an ancient rome, and there are a few other little

1377
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,200
Speaker 1: Easter eggs nestled throughout the film. You can hear a

1378
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:46,759
Speaker 1: sample of chanting from the nineteen sixty four film Zulu

1379
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: mixed into the beginning of the Germania Battle. That's cool,

1380
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 1: and one of the totems carried by the opposing forces

1381
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 1: is a mask from the much mocked Sean Connery film

1382
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 1: Zardo's that's the one of him in the in the

1383
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: Sling the Sling speedo. Yes, yes, it's painted gray and

1384
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: subjected to appropriate weathering to make it look slightly less obvious. Meanwhile,

1385
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: art director Cliff Robinson was responsible for putting together the

1386
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 1: film's vehicles, which included the Royal carriage, but more importantly

1387
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: the chariots used in the Colisseum. They both had the

1388
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 1: look cool as hell and served various functions. Twenty four

1389
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: of these were built in total, which is incredible rannging

1390
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: from the more ornate ones used by a commutus Antigris

1391
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 1: of gall and sixteen of these were used for the

1392
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: battle scene. For that scene, some were stunt ready, meaning

1393
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 1: they were able to take a beating and or be destroyed,

1394
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 1: but others were constructed with special combat angle camera mounts.

1395
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 1: Cliff Robinson, the art director, also built the Roman War

1396
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:50,560
Speaker 1: weapons like arrow volleying scorpions and two full sized catapults,

1397
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: each weighing a ton incapable of launching missiles four hundred

1398
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 1: and fifty feet.

1399
01:16:57,040 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 2: What a sick day, Yeah at work, I made that catapult.

1400
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 2: It works as one would expect. Over twenty five hundred

1401
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 2: pieces of weaponry were designed and manufactured by Simon Atherton

1402
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 2: and his team, although this figure does not include the

1403
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 2: sixteen thousand flaming and ten thousand non flaming arrows used

1404
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,640
Speaker 2: in the opening scene. I saw figures somewhere that they

1405
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 2: made twenty seven five hundred individual armor components to be

1406
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 2: mixed and matched among the different extras. Simon Atherton is

1407
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 2: the real deal. He started his life as an armorer

1408
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:33,600
Speaker 2: as an apprentice in a gun shop when he was sixteen,

1409
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 2: and subsequently went to work on two Indiana Jones's A Highlander,

1410
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 2: Two Aliens, A Bond, The Three Musketeers, Brave Heart, the

1411
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 2: Fifth Element. I don't know why I emphasized it like that.

1412
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 2: He made Ridley's gun, the pulse rifle in Aliens, which

1413
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 2: is like one of the most iconic pieces of sci

1414
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: fi weaponry ever, the mask of Zoro and the Mummy

1415
01:17:54,240 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 2: before getting onto Gladiator once again, Happy Mumvember to everyone. Ironically,

1416
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 2: Atherton says in the making of book that there was

1417
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 2: not much reference to be found in books for weaponry

1418
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 2: and armor from this period, sure Man, and so many

1419
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 2: of the film's weapons were original concept, like scissor shaped

1420
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:17,639
Speaker 2: sword gauntlets and the multi firing crossbow used at one scene.

1421
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't really find much. So I got, I got,

1422
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 1: I got these cool things I was thinking about, Like

1423
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: we could just do that.

1424
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 2: Wow, scissor hands, any precedent for that in Hollywood recently?

1425
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 2: A guy with scissors for hands.

1426
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 1: One of the most well documented periods in human history. Yeah,

1427
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 1: I can't find much.

1428
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 2: We could go scissor hands. Really, Scott literally was like,

1429
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 2: give me a machine gun. And he says in that

1430
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 2: there's there's an there's like a three and a half

1431
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 2: hour making of on YouTube and I did not watch

1432
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 2: all of so caught me sleeping. But he talks about

1433
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 2: the machine gun, cross crossbone. He's like, I could even

1434
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 2: figure out how to sketch this thing out and design it,

1435
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,720
Speaker 2: so I just had to build it. Like so it

1436
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:05,080
Speaker 2: after a fashion Athington. This is interesting because there are

1437
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 2: like specific if you're a nerd like me, for taxonomy,

1438
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 2: there are like a bunch of actually documented types of

1439
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 2: gladiators that they got from frescoes and different writings. So

1440
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 2: like Murmillos is a specific class of gladiator who have

1441
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 2: these fish helms, and if you see these, it's hard

1442
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 2: to describe with in a podcast. But if you see

1443
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 2: these sort of goggle eyed, grilled mask with the big

1444
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 2: almost conquistador style helmets, like those archetypes are present in

1445
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 2: frescoes and stuff. And now that's how they pulled out

1446
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 2: of this. The aforementioned men with a tuna sword who

1447
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 2: could kill you in the source painting is called a

1448
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:47,759
Speaker 2: reterrioris or retire. They were specifically armed with a trident

1449
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:50,640
Speaker 2: and a net. Thracians had a very specific kind of

1450
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 2: almost boomerang as curved short sword. There were basically guys

1451
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 2: who just fought with enormous brass knuckles or like knife

1452
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 2: gloves and were otherwise unarmored. And then there was a

1453
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,719
Speaker 2: special guy who appears in the film named for Pluto,

1454
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 2: the Roman god of the dead, and you can see

1455
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,040
Speaker 2: him in the film. His job is to just he

1456
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 2: was specifically just to walk around the arena afterwards and

1457
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 2: with a giant spear combo spear club combo, just bash

1458
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,479
Speaker 2: people's heads in real good if it didn't look like

1459
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 2: they were going to be able to recover. And so

1460
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:27,679
Speaker 2: that one of those weapons is on auction, I believe

1461
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 2: currently it's called the A lot of this is on auction.

1462
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 2: It's all over Julian's in different prop places because they

1463
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 2: made so much of it. So if you want to

1464
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 2: for a loved one, or say a podcaster you really like,

1465
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:45,519
Speaker 2: go buy one. They're called Elysium Dispatchers. So that's cool, man.

1466
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 2: The fun note that everyone about the hip hop nerds

1467
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 2: will note about this is that MF. Doom wears a

1468
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 2: version of Maximus's mask. Jordan. Hip hop is a genre

1469
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,640
Speaker 2: speak rhythmically over beats. It might be a bit of

1470
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 2: a blind spot for you since the fifties. But sorry,

1471
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 2: that was necessarily mean. But yeah, that Maximus's mask that

1472
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:14,600
Speaker 2: he first wears just became stage makeup for this for

1473
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:17,320
Speaker 2: British rapper m F. Doom, who sadly died a few

1474
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 2: years back. At this point, I think Tigris of Gulls sick,

1475
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 2: absolutely raw as hell. Tiger head face mask that has

1476
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 2: a tear on one eye, it's so unbelievably cool as

1477
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 2: hell that was made up. Copies of certain weapons were

1478
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 2: also rendered in leather or rubber for close ups that

1479
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 2: required people to take real hits. And then I just

1480
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 2: want to drop in a quote about from Simon Atherton

1481
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:47,679
Speaker 2: about archery, which is cool Roman archery. He said, while

1482
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 2: Roman soldiers would use they typically use short swords, spears

1483
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 2: and shields and military situations. He gave this very interesting

1484
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 2: breakdown of the Roman field tactics. You know, they had

1485
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 2: the They would first throw these spears that were very

1486
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:08,559
Speaker 2: weakly constructed so that they couldn't be repurposed. They were

1487
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 2: javelins essentially that were designed to break. And then they

1488
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:15,000
Speaker 2: would advance either with longer spears that were more sturdy

1489
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:18,640
Speaker 2: behind shields, or the short swords which are called gladyeye.

1490
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,640
Speaker 2: That's where you get the term gladiator from. And what

1491
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:24,760
Speaker 2: Simon said is that Romans didn't actually like archery very

1492
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 2: much as a concept. That was more of a I

1493
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 2: think it evolved more of British stuff. But then he

1494
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 2: gives this insanely minute detail of how they were made.

1495
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 2: They used a horn and sinew bow because from that

1496
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 2: part of the world, Mediterraneans very dry wood. So you

1497
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 2: make a bow on a small wooden cord, and then

1498
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 2: on the outside you lay sinew from the achilles tendon

1499
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 2: or the backstrap of an animal dried out, and then

1500
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 2: the inside of the bow you put horn from an animal.

1501
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 2: So in fact what they were making was ancient. Three

1502
01:22:56,280 --> 01:23:00,360
Speaker 2: layered fiberglass. Wow, I think that's all so neat, really cool.

1503
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 1: You titled this next section do you like to hang

1504
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 1: around in men's locker rooms? We've been jerry judicious at

1505
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:09,679
Speaker 1: the airplane quote.

1506
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,559
Speaker 2: I must say, yeah, we haven't brought it back that much.

1507
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: Russell Crowe, Jim and Hansu and Ralph Mohler really hitting

1508
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: all my pronunciational blind spots.

1509
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 2: Here a real international casting of beefy Men.

1510
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 1: They were all trained by stunt coordinator Phil Nilsen and

1511
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 1: fight master Nicholas Powell. Russell Crow had an uphill battle

1512
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 1: from the start, sweating through farm chores at his ranch

1513
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 1: in Australia to try to lose forty pounds, and he'd

1514
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 1: put on for the insider to get back into fighting shape,

1515
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: so we maintained he didn't do much more.

1516
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 2: Than that, which is good for him.

1517
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,640
Speaker 1: The three principal gladiators also lifted weights every day in

1518
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: a mobile gym on set where Moler, a former Mister Universe,

1519
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 1: would keep them pumped up. But all the training in

1520
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: the world doesn't account for accidents, and by all accounts

1521
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 1: there were a fair number. Hans So told Variety, I

1522
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:04,679
Speaker 1: almost accidentally stab somebody in the head. In the fight

1523
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:07,679
Speaker 1: sequence at the coliseum where Maximus gets on the horse,

1524
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: most of us got carried away, and I think when

1525
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,760
Speaker 1: you're truly doing it for real, the pretend sort of

1526
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 1: goes out of the way and the emotion takes over.

1527
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:17,560
Speaker 1: So a lot of people got hurt.

1528
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 2: He was also one of them.

1529
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 1: During the scene where he fights the gladiator and the

1530
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 1: horned bullhead Helm, the other actor made an unexpected head

1531
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 1: movement and one of the horns missed haunts Who's eyes

1532
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:31,799
Speaker 1: by inches, instead cutting a deep gash into his shoulder.

1533
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 1: Jesus naturally. Russell Krog got the worst of these accidents.

1534
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: He was at one point told by production to stop

1535
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 1: playing soccer between filming because of the risk it post.

1536
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: He responded to this with a memo of his own, saying,

1537
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 1: I can wrestle four tigers, but I can't play a

1538
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 1: game of soccer. Get over it, love Russell. You know

1539
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: that's really missing. That's really lacking when it's not done.

1540
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 1: In the Australian accident, can you give us a I.

1541
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 2: Can wrestle with four times, but I can't play a

1542
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 2: game of soaka, get over it, love Russell. We have

1543
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 2: a love Russell, I'm doing a very specific like bogan

1544
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 2: like a it's a it's not like the nick Cave

1545
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 2: Australian accent, posh. It's a kind of rednecky Australian accent.

1546
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 1: It's a holeover from Crocodile dundee. Yeah, an experienced horseback rider.

1547
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:24,639
Speaker 2: Crowd did his.

1548
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 1: Own riding during certain scenes, including during the fairly dangerous

1549
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: initial charge in the Germania battle scene the Betel Variety.

1550
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 1: There were shots in there where other people would double

1551
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 1: me and then they would complain about a shot and

1552
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 1: I would just be like, we'll just let me do

1553
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 1: it then. But that particular slope down into the battlefield

1554
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:44,000
Speaker 1: with all the fire is going off and the explosions

1555
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: going off, that was actually a pretty hairy day.

1556
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 2: Russell Croade later detailed the breadth of his injuries from

1557
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,320
Speaker 2: this film on inside the actor's studio. A lot of blood,

1558
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 2: a lot of blood, a lot of grazes, you know.

1559
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 2: I mean, I've still got a little scar here one

1560
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:00,599
Speaker 2: under here on this elbow, a discolouration of the skin

1561
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:03,600
Speaker 2: that is directly from Gladiator or just from being Australian.

1562
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 2: They are sun drenched people, Okay, it's.

1563
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: Right under the ozone the hole in the ozone layer exactly.

1564
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:13,639
Speaker 2: He said. I've had achilles tendons go out, knees go out,

1565
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 2: both shoulders, this shoulders actually had an operation on it.

1566
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 2: I've got a lower back thing that just won't go away,

1567
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 2: and that's from a couple sort of fall impacts during

1568
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:24,760
Speaker 2: fight sequences or whatever. I've got a ribub here that

1569
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 2: pops out every now and then, which is not very comfortable.

1570
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,800
Speaker 2: Twenty years after the film, Crove joked to Variety, when

1571
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:32,679
Speaker 2: you're younger, you're made of rubber and you can bounce

1572
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 2: back again. I do remember saying to my mom when

1573
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 2: I got home from that shoot. She said, how do

1574
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:38,839
Speaker 2: you feel? I said, I actually feel like a football

1575
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:40,679
Speaker 2: player who's played one season too many.

1576
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 1: Oh again, getting back to the Ali Reid thing that

1577
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:48,200
Speaker 1: makes me sad. I just started, as you know, working

1578
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 1: out and training for the first time of my life

1579
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 1: at age thirty six, and I'm I'm kind of here's

1580
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 1: stories like this, and I'm kind of terrified. For a

1581
01:26:56,160 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: delicate flower like me. I'm sort of shocked. I haven't

1582
01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 1: like hurt myself yet in the last couple of months.

1583
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but here I am here you are. You're surviving

1584
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:11,759
Speaker 2: and shouts to your trainer, Lewis Luise. Yes, the Luise.

1585
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,680
Speaker 1: He knows about the show. He wants me to send

1586
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 1: them episodes. Yeah, speak, he has me. Uh, let's see.

1587
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: It was deadlifting one seventy five this week. Damn dude,

1588
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:24,800
Speaker 1: I was bench pressing one thirty five.

1589
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, man, check you out.

1590
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah trying, I'm trying. Only been a couple months. The

1591
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:34,639
Speaker 1: film's menagerie of animal co stars were obviously yet another

1592
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 1: logistical hurdle. One particularly fraught situation was actually the dimensions

1593
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,759
Speaker 1: of the Colosseum. The set was actually about fifteen percent

1594
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: too small for the horses, and they're five hundred pound

1595
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 1: chariots plus actors to turn around it and once they

1596
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:52,679
Speaker 1: emerged up that long entrance ramp at full gallop, Ridley

1597
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 1: Scott says in the making of book, they can't turn

1598
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:57,519
Speaker 1: because they're going too fast. They just have to rein

1599
01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:00,120
Speaker 1: in and slow down fast. And I knew I was

1600
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 1: fifteen percent short, so it was really tricky. They were

1601
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:04,839
Speaker 1: grazing the other end of the stadium.

1602
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 2: Ooh, that sounds dangerous.

1603
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 1: They also used cameras on rigs being towed by ATVs

1604
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 1: for some of these shots, which added another fun element

1605
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 1: of unpredictability. Chief animal trainer Paul Reynolds sourced most of

1606
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 1: the animals on the film, including tigers, leopards, girafts, lions, vultures, zebras,

1607
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 1: and let's not forget an elephant. Owing to the difficulties

1608
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: of transporting exotic animals over international boundaries. However, production had

1609
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 1: to borrow animals from a local zoo when they were

1610
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:38,960
Speaker 1: shooting in Morocco, of which Reynolds has the following cheerful

1611
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 1: note in the book. Of course, these are not animals

1612
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 1: that have been raised and trained for this work. They're

1613
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:47,680
Speaker 1: really wild. But everyone survived and we sent all the

1614
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: animals back healthy.

1615
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 2: But you don't want to hear about that. No, you

1616
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 2: want to hear about Russell Crowe fighting tigers. Oh yeah,

1617
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 2: which would be said to learn he did not actually

1618
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 2: do on Phil James Brown Outs bands right now? Yeah, yeah, fellas,

1619
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:06,439
Speaker 2: can I tell him about Russell crow fighting tigers? Tell

1620
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 2: about Russell coll fighting tigers? He didn't actually do it?

1621
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 2: Take him? Yeah, So really, Scott had storyboard in that

1622
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 2: whole fight, and he had overconfidently budgeted a mere four

1623
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,439
Speaker 2: days for tiger's shooting purposes. This ended up taking weeks.

1624
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:27,719
Speaker 2: The workflow was, at least in some parts alarmingly real.

1625
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 2: Animal trainers would use bait to get the tigers to lunge,

1626
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:35,519
Speaker 2: leap and roar with, you know, just chunks of meat,

1627
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:39,760
Speaker 2: and their controls were just the chains you see in

1628
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 2: the film, just a caller and some chains to run

1629
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 2: through ira eye hooks, you know, in the ground. But

1630
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:51,799
Speaker 2: these were done independently of Crow's stuntwork and his stunt actors,

1631
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 2: So basically they would composite shots. Basically, the tigers do

1632
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 2: something in one take that they put Crow or his

1633
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:02,880
Speaker 2: stunt double in a you know, another in the same background,

1634
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:05,760
Speaker 2: film their reaction, and then they paste it together. And

1635
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:09,640
Speaker 2: this happened daily. Film editor patro Scalia would view the

1636
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:11,759
Speaker 2: dailies to see if he had enough of these angles

1637
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:14,880
Speaker 2: to edit with and then ask for reshoots accordingly, Now

1638
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:17,759
Speaker 2: that there were some shots that they did do within

1639
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:21,840
Speaker 2: a degree of distance, Ridley Scott in the book says

1640
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 2: that he allowed for fifteen feet of distance between the

1641
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,080
Speaker 2: tigers and actors most of the time, although in recent

1642
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:29,960
Speaker 2: years that number has shrunk. In the telling, he said

1643
01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 2: to Variety the tiger would come out of the hole

1644
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:33,680
Speaker 2: and Russell would roll out of the way and he

1645
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 2: said me, that was close, and I said, we were

1646
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 2: there as well, Russell, you were two feet I was

1647
01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:43,760
Speaker 2: like four feet. Anyway, four six hundred pound tigers were

1648
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:46,360
Speaker 2: used for that fight scene. Two were more docile ones

1649
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 2: from the US that had been hand raised, and two

1650
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:53,559
Speaker 2: were quote less predictable ones from France. This is where

1651
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 2: you fade in the so fade in that music. In France,

1652
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:01,800
Speaker 2: we do not trains italielles MWC and feeds in the

1653
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 2: cigarette wine, collected cameo and paperback. Buff.

1654
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:11,679
Speaker 1: What does buff means?

1655
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 2: It's just like buff is like a standard French interjection

1656
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 2: that's kind of like, you know, just saying like m

1657
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 2: er yeah, I guess like buff usually a companied by

1658
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:23,799
Speaker 2: like an eye roll. So much of the close distance

1659
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 2: shots that you do see were created with a full

1660
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 2: size animatronic tiger that could be positioned over Maximus's shoulders

1661
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 2: and move or on top of him and move suspended,

1662
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 2: be suspended in mid air for leaping shots, and so

1663
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 2: the shots that you see in the final film were

1664
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 2: achieved by a combination of compositing, real tigers, with the

1665
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 2: actors and the animatronic one and some subtle CGI work.

1666
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 2: One of the live tigers actually did get sort of

1667
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:51,559
Speaker 2: loose one day. It reared back suddenly on its chain

1668
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 2: and it knocked its handler to the ground, and so

1669
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 2: all this slack went into the chain and he had

1670
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:58,519
Speaker 2: to run and scramble to grab it before the thing

1671
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:04,599
Speaker 2: had enough lead to I guess eat crow, get it work.

1672
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was good. That was nice. That was nice.

1673
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 2: Thank you. There isn't a count in the fantastically named

1674
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:15,559
Speaker 2: Russell Crowe a life, a book I found in Google

1675
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 2: Books that claims there was a point at which Tigers

1676
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:22,240
Speaker 2: of gall actor seven ol Thorson was pinned to the

1677
01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:25,840
Speaker 2: ground by an arrant tiger at one point which Russell

1678
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 2: Crowe distracted by swatting it on the butt with his

1679
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 2: rubber sword. Which, okay, man, I believe that he said,

1680
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:38,680
Speaker 2: winking heavily. And Maximus' dog meant to be a wolf, obviously,

1681
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:41,599
Speaker 2: the Roman Romulus and rimas you know, the whole thing

1682
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:48,320
Speaker 2: about Rome Wolf, et cetera. Britain's strict anti rabies laws

1683
01:32:48,520 --> 01:32:50,439
Speaker 2: meant that they could not use a real wolf for

1684
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 2: filming those nanny state Yeah, I know, because of woke

1685
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:57,960
Speaker 2: They don't want you to have a wolf for a pack. Yeah,

1686
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 2: the woke left doesn't want you to have wolves, so

1687
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:08,839
Speaker 2: they used a teruvi teruvein Belgian shepherd dog's name was Kite.

1688
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:12,000
Speaker 2: He appears with Russell Crowe in the Battle of Germania scenes.

1689
01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 2: Now that dog may be familiar to the anglophiles among you,

1690
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:18,920
Speaker 2: because it plays Robbie Jackson's dog Wellard in the British

1691
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:20,360
Speaker 2: TV show east Enders.

1692
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:26,000
Speaker 1: English Friends there, John and company. Yes, yes, he doesn't

1693
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:27,719
Speaker 1: strike me as an EastEnders fan though.

1694
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So. Oh, here's a depressing historical sidebar. Annimal

1695
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 2: blood sports were so popular in Rome that records suggest

1696
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 2: one emperor killed up to five thousand animals in one

1697
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 2: three day stretch of games. Elephants, rhinos. So you'll notice

1698
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:49,759
Speaker 2: in the sequel there's a scene with a rhino. Ridley

1699
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 2: wanted to put a rhino into this film. They could

1700
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 2: not wrangle it. So, of course, like what's his name,

1701
01:33:56,640 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 2: Streisan director John Peters, So of course, like John p

1702
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:03,840
Speaker 2: who was agitating for a giant spider scene in the

1703
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:07,679
Speaker 2: Kevin Smith Superman, didn't get it. That film didn't get made,

1704
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:10,520
Speaker 2: and so then in Wild Wild West, which he also produced,

1705
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 2: got an enormous CGI monstrosity giant spider. Ridley Scott wanted

1706
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:19,840
Speaker 2: a rhino ingladiator and twenty four years later got his

1707
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:25,560
Speaker 2: damn CGI rhinos scene. So yeah, they would use rhinos, tigers, cheetahs,

1708
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 2: all leopards, just anything they could get their hands on,

1709
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:31,519
Speaker 2: and throwing an arena against humans bears. Sorry, what are

1710
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 2: you laughing at?

1711
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 1: I just love how you phrased animal blood sports like

1712
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:35,959
Speaker 1: animal blood sports?

1713
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:37,680
Speaker 2: What are they and what can they do for you?

1714
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:40,719
Speaker 2: And now a letter?

1715
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's a letter.

1716
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:47,400
Speaker 2: Here's a letter. Commodus. So he's the emperor portrayed by

1717
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 2: Joaquin Phoenix was in reality quite an ace with a spear.

1718
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 2: According to some records, he once gave himself one hundred

1719
01:34:56,439 --> 01:35:00,280
Speaker 2: spears to kill one hundred lions and did so.

1720
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:02,720
Speaker 1: A spear a lion. I appreciate that he I guess

1721
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:04,719
Speaker 1: you wouldn't remove your spirit from a dead lion.

1722
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:06,920
Speaker 2: That's just he was throwing them, I believe.

1723
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 1: Oh oh oh okay.

1724
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:11,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah. This wasn't out of concern for economy

1725
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 2: or the animals.

1726
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 1: What was the quote from was a shade O'Connor described

1727
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:17,760
Speaker 1: some man as a swordsman.

1728
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:22,200
Speaker 2: Oh, that was you're referring to. You were referring to

1729
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:27,080
Speaker 2: Sinead O'Connor describing Peter Gabriel as a bit of a swordsman.

1730
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:29,599
Speaker 1: Excuse me wrong, member of Genesis.

1731
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:32,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, because because Kate Bush turned him

1732
01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 2: down when they did their duet. Ah right, I'm so

1733
01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 2: glad she was never sullied by him. As you meditate

1734
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:44,920
Speaker 2: on that, We'll be right back with more too much

1735
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 2: information after these messages.

1736
01:35:56,479 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: The gladiator Tigris is played by a Danish strong man

1737
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:02,920
Speaker 1: named spann Ole Thornson. I feel like I could have

1738
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 1: given more to that, Penincia.

1739
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:07,519
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it's svan Olthorson, not ole, as a

1740
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:15,120
Speaker 2: Spanish interjection used in bull fighting, him being Danish, right, right,

1741
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:15,719
Speaker 2: right right.

1742
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 1: He was an old bunny of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Going Back

1743
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:21,680
Speaker 1: to the Mister Universe days, and Old Arnie brought him

1744
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 1: along with him into the film world for films.

1745
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,000
Speaker 2: Like Conan, the Barbarian and The Running Man.

1746
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 1: He ultimately wound up in fifteen of Arnold's films. He's

1747
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 1: the boter hat wearing security guard La Four's in Molrats

1748
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:35,679
Speaker 1: also Kevin Smith.

1749
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:39,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, well and that's our second Kevin Smith Reverence. John

1750
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 2: Peters story is from Kevin Smith Prevence. How about that.

1751
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, for him, the role of Tiggris was a hot

1752
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 1: one pension Tigris.

1753
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, he's got tigers.

1754
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:56,479
Speaker 1: You're right, I'm sorry, the role of Tigris again, I'm sorry, yes,

1755
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 1: but tiger Tigris. I said Tigris. You said Tigris then now,

1756
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:02,880
Speaker 1: and now I said Tigris.

1757
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:06,320
Speaker 2: There's a really funny pressed junket clip of when they

1758
01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 2: were doing I think it was Nightcrawler Jake Gillenhall, and

1759
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:12,639
Speaker 2: they're doing one of those junket things with the whole

1760
01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 2: principal cast, and the director says something like, well there's

1761
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 2: a real sense of melancholy in this film or something,

1762
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:25,720
Speaker 2: and a furious Jake Gillenhal interjects melancholy. It's melancholy, and

1763
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:28,120
Speaker 2: everyone sort of nervously jitter laughs, and then he just

1764
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 2: very cataly goes and it's not the first time today,

1765
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:39,599
Speaker 2: So sorry, Yeah, it's it's Tigris, buddy.

1766
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:43,719
Speaker 1: The role of Tigris was a hot one production, originally

1767
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:46,600
Speaker 1: thought of stunt casting Arnold himself to play the Gladiator

1768
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 1: while ex incredible Hulk. Lou Farigno, who I always thought

1769
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:52,679
Speaker 1: was kind of a punchline, though I guess he's huge,

1770
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 1: claimed that he was originally cast on the role before

1771
01:37:55,080 --> 01:37:56,679
Speaker 1: Schwarzenegger threw his weight around.

1772
01:37:57,120 --> 01:37:58,200
Speaker 2: Pun intended you.

1773
01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:01,560
Speaker 1: Right to get Florence and cast for Igno's quota is

1774
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:04,519
Speaker 1: saying Schwarzenegger was jealous and he would rather have his

1775
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,960
Speaker 1: friend because I was more of a threat. I was

1776
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:09,040
Speaker 1: in the film. I had auditioned twice and I had

1777
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:11,160
Speaker 1: the part. The casting agent told me that it had

1778
01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 1: to do with Schwarzenegger. Apparently he was kind of jealous,

1779
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:17,000
Speaker 1: so they switched rolls and Spenn felt bad about it.

1780
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:20,640
Speaker 1: He's a good friend of mine. Schwarzenegger for Rigno have

1781
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:23,719
Speaker 1: this weird dynamic because they're both in pumping iron together

1782
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:27,040
Speaker 1: or the former can be seen mocking Loo's body.

1783
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 2: It's so funny too, because, like you know, if you

1784
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:32,120
Speaker 2: see Schwarzenegger, he's actually short for weightlifter, and there's a

1785
01:38:32,160 --> 01:38:34,599
Speaker 2: pick of him. I mean, he's not short for a human,

1786
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 2: but like Forigno towers over him. There's that shot on

1787
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:41,879
Speaker 2: Conan two where it's Wilt Chamberlain and under the giant

1788
01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:45,479
Speaker 2: like lifting up Arnold Schwarzenegger, and he looks like a toddler.

1789
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:49,160
Speaker 1: It looks like the Twins poster, but he is.

1790
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:55,960
Speaker 2: Two. Macho macha man. I didn't know where else to

1791
01:38:55,960 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 2: put this, but here's a surprise cinematographer moment, yay. John

1792
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,360
Speaker 2: Matthey detailed his work on the film for the American

1793
01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:07,240
Speaker 2: Society of Cinematographers, explaining that he and Scott would as

1794
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:10,880
Speaker 2: the storyboard artist. Earlier said employed up to seven cameras

1795
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:14,280
Speaker 2: at a time for various scenes, from handheld cameras to

1796
01:39:14,360 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 2: the so called giraffe cranes, but his real trick for

1797
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:20,559
Speaker 2: the film was shooting the battle scenes at various frame

1798
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 2: rates and with a forty five degree shutter. This is

1799
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 2: a method that had been recently seen in Saving Private Ryan,

1800
01:39:27,479 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 2: which helps make fast moving action feel more real and

1801
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:36,120
Speaker 2: better captures minute movements without getting too nerdy about how

1802
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:39,800
Speaker 2: lens's work. When you're shooting moving images, the anger the

1803
01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:44,120
Speaker 2: angle of the shutter forms a proportion to the time

1804
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:46,840
Speaker 2: that each frame of film, the length of time that

1805
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 2: each frame film is exposed. A one hundred and eighty

1806
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:54,000
Speaker 2: shutter angle is considered normal for your twenty four frames

1807
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:58,200
Speaker 2: per second film shooting, So a tighter shutter angle will

1808
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 2: constrict motion blur. And when you see this in Saving

1809
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:04,160
Speaker 2: Private Ryan, and you see this in Gladiator, that means

1810
01:40:04,240 --> 01:40:07,559
Speaker 2: when the look in quality changes, that's the shutter angle.

1811
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 2: But then what it means is that stuff like swords

1812
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:14,720
Speaker 2: rather than blurring or sand in Saving Private Ryan, rather

1813
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:17,479
Speaker 2: than blurring, you can see a lot more of the

1814
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:21,920
Speaker 2: kind of individual frames of those action scenes. And this

1815
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 2: is also different from what would then be seen in

1816
01:40:25,240 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 2: three hundred and what has become a signature move of

1817
01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:32,200
Speaker 2: that jerk Off Zack Snyder called ramping, which is an

1818
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:36,000
Speaker 2: effect that happens in the battle scenes where the overall

1819
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:40,880
Speaker 2: rate of action suddenly slowed down to like a slow

1820
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:45,559
Speaker 2: motion thing, and then very immediately sped up within the

1821
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:49,719
Speaker 2: same shot. That's called ramping. That's different than shutter angle.

1822
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:52,280
Speaker 1: It's like when you're tubing and the boat turns really

1823
01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 1: quick and the rope hasn't had a chance to catch up,

1824
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:57,439
Speaker 1: so you're just sitting there very still and you know

1825
01:40:57,520 --> 01:41:00,200
Speaker 1: it's about to like whip you, and then it does.

1826
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:05,479
Speaker 2: Some people listening may get that that was such a

1827
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:08,920
Speaker 2: far field reference from you. I could not bear to interrupt.

1828
01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:13,160
Speaker 2: I've been tubing. I just wouldn't connect that to movie magic.

1829
01:41:13,880 --> 01:41:18,479
Speaker 2: Oh you peasant, I connected the pain. Uh sorry. Since

1830
01:41:18,479 --> 01:41:20,559
Speaker 2: we're talking about camera stuff, it is also worth pointing

1831
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 2: out that one of the definitive images of the film,

1832
01:41:23,560 --> 01:41:26,559
Speaker 2: Maximus's hand passing over the grass in his fields as

1833
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 2: he dies, was a last second addition to the film,

1834
01:41:30,479 --> 01:41:33,519
Speaker 2: and that is not even Russell Crowe's hand as really.

1835
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:36,920
Speaker 2: Scott explained it to Deadline in twenty twenty three. It

1836
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 2: was the last shot of principal photography. Russell didn't come

1837
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 2: to Italy. That was his double. The guy was standing

1838
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:46,280
Speaker 2: there in this field smoking. I say, get out of

1839
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:50,160
Speaker 2: the field. Are you joking? It was midsummer dry, He says,

1840
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:53,280
Speaker 2: oh sorry, man. He walked off the field and did

1841
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:56,040
Speaker 2: that thing with the hand. I said, stop right there,

1842
01:41:56,320 --> 01:41:59,679
Speaker 2: get the steady camp. We followed the hand. It became

1843
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:02,880
Speaker 2: the list for immortality or Heaven if you like. Right there.

1844
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 2: It was discovered the last day. Spontaneously, Russell said, you'll

1845
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 2: never use that. I said I will when he saw

1846
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 2: the scene. When he saw on the scene, he groaned,

1847
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:16,479
Speaker 2: I said, too late. It's shot I got it, mate.

1848
01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:19,759
Speaker 2: It was put out that cigarette and get the steady

1849
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:23,719
Speaker 2: cam and don't walk on the wheat. What a character

1850
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 2: he is.

1851
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:30,400
Speaker 1: Hans Zimmer, who sucks before before you, before you go?

1852
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:31,200
Speaker 2: Do you see?

1853
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 1: There was some junket I must have been for Gladiator too.

1854
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:34,800
Speaker 2: Who really?

1855
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:38,519
Speaker 1: Scott was being interviewed and the reporter had previously talked,

1856
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 1: like in the months earlier to some famous filmmaker. I

1857
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:44,160
Speaker 1: forget who it was, and he had the clip up

1858
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:47,000
Speaker 1: on an iPad that he showed Ridley and was like,

1859
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 1: look look at this this director saying like how much

1860
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:53,599
Speaker 1: you mean to him? And really was like I think

1861
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cry. And the interview was like really He's

1862
01:42:55,840 --> 01:43:00,920
Speaker 1: like no, and they was just like what.

1863
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:10,240
Speaker 2: A dick. Never forget he was an ad man, you know,

1864
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:15,200
Speaker 2: he is literally don draper, Hans Zimmer, controversial guy. I

1865
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 2: didn't know that. Yeah, some of the charge. I mean,

1866
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:19,280
Speaker 2: he doesn't read music, which is sort of the thing

1867
01:43:19,320 --> 01:43:21,439
Speaker 2: that immediately puts a lot of people off of him.

1868
01:43:21,479 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 2: He's incredibly gifted with a piano midi scoring piano role

1869
01:43:26,040 --> 01:43:27,760
Speaker 2: what they call it in midi when you can just

1870
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:31,960
Speaker 2: you basically are just orchestrating an entire thing through MIDI

1871
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 2: just to the keyboard. So he's supposed to be very

1872
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:36,960
Speaker 2: like a virtue also with that, but doesn't read music properly.

1873
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:39,800
Speaker 2: One of the big charges from him is that he's

1874
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:41,840
Speaker 2: one of those guys who, you know, this happens all

1875
01:43:41,880 --> 01:43:45,080
Speaker 2: the time. Composers come in and they just go, here's

1876
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 2: the theme, like, here's the melodic structure for this moment.

1877
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:51,600
Speaker 2: I want to make it sound like ex composer, and

1878
01:43:51,640 --> 01:43:56,559
Speaker 2: then like five or six interns or staff orchestrators they're

1879
01:43:56,600 --> 01:44:01,560
Speaker 2: called fill that in. And that is apparently like especially gratuitous.

1880
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:03,800
Speaker 2: In Zimmer's studio. It will just come in and be like,

1881
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:08,040
Speaker 2: you know, here's this melodic frame, and then like all

1882
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:11,480
Speaker 2: of his people who are either not credited or very underpaid,

1883
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 2: actually make it sound like what you're hearing and do

1884
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:17,519
Speaker 2: what a lot of people would consume is the actual

1885
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:24,120
Speaker 2: work of composition, harmonies, rhythmic motif elaborations, etc. But that's

1886
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:25,679
Speaker 2: not even what we're talking about here. We're just talking

1887
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 2: about straight up theft. Zimmer's score for Gladiator contains what,

1888
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:34,680
Speaker 2: depending on where you fall in this conception, this understanding

1889
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 2: of art is either homage references jumping points, or just

1890
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:45,720
Speaker 2: straight up theft to Gustav Holst's suite the Planets, in

1891
01:44:45,760 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 2: particular Mars, the Burner of War. Now nerds will also

1892
01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:53,400
Speaker 2: remember that this dramatically informs John Williams's score for Star Wars,

1893
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:57,080
Speaker 2: particularly the Imperial March is the one that's widely cited

1894
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:02,120
Speaker 2: as using Mars as jumping off point. Zimmer didn't stop there.

1895
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:06,160
Speaker 2: He also decided to yank stuff from Wagner, particularly the

1896
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:10,840
Speaker 2: ring cycle. Now this this is standard practice, you know,

1897
01:45:11,080 --> 01:45:13,719
Speaker 2: this happens all the time. But Zimmer's quotation of Holst

1898
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 2: was glaring enough to merit a lawsuit from the Holst Foundation,

1899
01:45:17,560 --> 01:45:20,679
Speaker 2: who sued Zimmer over it in two thousand and six. Now,

1900
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:23,679
Speaker 2: in the liner notes, Hans himself copped to using quote

1901
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:28,280
Speaker 2: the same language, the same vocabulary, if not the same syntax,

1902
01:45:29,240 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 2: which is an incredibly weasily thing to say. Let's parse

1903
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:37,840
Speaker 2: that for a second. The same language, the same vocabulary,

1904
01:45:38,280 --> 01:45:42,600
Speaker 2: but not the syntax, meaning all of the words and

1905
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:44,479
Speaker 2: all of the specific.

1906
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:46,040
Speaker 1: Words put in a different rhythm.

1907
01:45:46,160 --> 01:45:48,559
Speaker 2: I don't know. You can go on YouTube and find

1908
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:51,160
Speaker 2: this in ten seconds and make the judgment for yourself.

1909
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:54,160
Speaker 2: This was, of course settled out of court, presumably by Zimmer,

1910
01:45:54,280 --> 01:45:56,799
Speaker 2: who just wanted to avoid the bad press, I guess,

1911
01:45:57,360 --> 01:46:00,000
Speaker 2: and he has literally also copped to this in interviews.

1912
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:02,000
Speaker 2: I found one where he said, and I love this.

1913
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:05,839
Speaker 2: I managed to assume the style of Wagner so easily

1914
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:08,120
Speaker 2: that I was able to write that piece and Gladiator

1915
01:46:08,280 --> 01:46:12,200
Speaker 2: in an hour, although also in that interview he says

1916
01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:16,080
Speaker 2: the whole theft evolved as an accident. I also read

1917
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:18,479
Speaker 2: one other thing that says an early part of Zimmer's

1918
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:22,200
Speaker 2: queue for the battle lifts a melodic passage from Tchaikowsky's

1919
01:46:22,240 --> 01:46:26,960
Speaker 2: Symphony Number six. So take all this theft homage however

1920
01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:30,280
Speaker 2: you will, but the Gladiator score drama doesn't stop there.

1921
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:33,800
Speaker 2: A few years later, fans noticed a striking similarity between

1922
01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:36,839
Speaker 2: one of Gladiator's themes and the main theme of the

1923
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:41,840
Speaker 2: Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, Caribbean. Whatever the emphosisis is

1924
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:44,519
Speaker 2: there Paramel. The film's music was originally supposed to have

1925
01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 2: been done by Alan Silvestri, who left that production over

1926
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:53,080
Speaker 2: differences with producer Jerry Brockheimer. Zimmer took over the job

1927
01:46:53,160 --> 01:46:57,080
Speaker 2: with another composer named Klaus Badelt, who was employed by

1928
01:46:57,160 --> 01:47:00,559
Speaker 2: Zimmer's film scoring company, and Zimmer supposed that they wrote

1929
01:47:00,760 --> 01:47:03,560
Speaker 2: much of the themes for this for Pirates in a

1930
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:09,800
Speaker 2: single night. He repurposed, allegedly, if you will, rather than

1931
01:47:10,040 --> 01:47:14,640
Speaker 2: self plagiarized or just recycled themes from not only Gladiator,

1932
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:16,519
Speaker 2: but also a score he wrote for a movie called

1933
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:20,000
Speaker 2: Drop Zone. And he may have also taken stuff that

1934
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:24,040
Speaker 2: he composed for The Lion King to Simba's Pride. So

1935
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:29,000
Speaker 2: punch all this in because it's difficult to describe, but

1936
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:31,840
Speaker 2: people on YouTube have done the legwork of comparing the

1937
01:47:31,840 --> 01:48:26,760
Speaker 2: Gladiator theme to the Pirates theme and yes, also to

1938
01:48:27,080 --> 01:49:02,679
Speaker 2: the line kicked two simplest Pride theme. Yes, so yeah,

1939
01:49:02,840 --> 01:49:05,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't I don't like Han Zimmer

1940
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:09,280
Speaker 2: very much. The vocals, though, are interesting. Apparently Pavaratti was

1941
01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:11,880
Speaker 2: offered a song on the Gladiator soundtrack and he turned

1942
01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:14,839
Speaker 2: it down. He said later in an interview with Billboard

1943
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:17,080
Speaker 2: that it was a regret of his but he performs

1944
01:49:17,120 --> 01:49:23,400
Speaker 2: the song titled unsurprisingly ill Gladiatore in concert. Lisa Girard

1945
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:25,960
Speaker 2: is the woman from much of the score. Throughout the

1946
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:28,400
Speaker 2: eighties and nineties, she had been one half of the

1947
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:33,559
Speaker 2: Gothic world music, experimental Melbourne ensemble. Dead Can Dance music

1948
01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:37,600
Speaker 2: was described once by Ian McFarlane as constructed soundscapes of

1949
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:43,599
Speaker 2: mesmerizing grandeur and solemn beauty, African polyrhythms, Gaelic folk, Gregorian chant,

1950
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:47,559
Speaker 2: Middle Eastern music, mantras and art rock plug for Dead

1951
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:50,200
Speaker 2: Can Dance. The group disbanded in nineteen ninety eight, but

1952
01:49:50,240 --> 01:49:54,439
Speaker 2: Gerard continued as a prolific solo artist. She comes into

1953
01:49:54,479 --> 01:49:57,519
Speaker 2: the film world with nineteen ninety nine's The Insider, which

1954
01:49:57,560 --> 01:49:59,960
Speaker 2: is the film that Russell Crowe got super fat for

1955
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:01,800
Speaker 2: and then had to lose a bunch of weight for

1956
01:50:01,800 --> 01:50:04,840
Speaker 2: for Gladiator, and then she worked with on the Zimmer

1957
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:08,960
Speaker 2: on Gladiator. Interesting only Zimmer was nominated for Best Score

1958
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:12,800
Speaker 2: at the Oscars, but the Golden Globes at least recognized

1959
01:50:13,240 --> 01:50:18,280
Speaker 2: Gerard's contributions to the film. She has a contralto register,

1960
01:50:18,360 --> 01:50:20,280
Speaker 2: but she can also access the higher ranges of a

1961
01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:24,120
Speaker 2: mezzo soprano, which is why you hear music journalists cliches

1962
01:50:24,240 --> 01:50:28,599
Speaker 2: like otherworldly being fixed to descriptions of her voice. Many

1963
01:50:28,640 --> 01:50:31,360
Speaker 2: of her songs this is interesting, especially in Gladiator, are

1964
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:35,439
Speaker 2: sung in what's called idioglossia, which is a technical term

1965
01:50:35,479 --> 01:50:40,240
Speaker 2: for self created idiosyncratic language. You might hear it reference

1966
01:50:40,320 --> 01:50:43,080
Speaker 2: in terms of singer ros, where the lead singer Jonzi

1967
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:47,680
Speaker 2: sings in a made up language that he has termed Hopelandic,

1968
01:50:48,160 --> 01:50:51,280
Speaker 2: but the more technical linguistic term for that is idio

1969
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:52,360
Speaker 2: glossia like.

1970
01:50:52,400 --> 01:50:54,799
Speaker 1: David Bowie and Lowe or sawa.

1971
01:50:55,360 --> 01:51:02,720
Speaker 2: Oh he's made up Italian gibberish. Yeah, forever immortalized it.

1972
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:05,960
Speaker 2: That parody video, I just sing a bunch of a

1973
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:09,879
Speaker 2: weird tangibbirch. Wow, that was a that was a good bullie.

1974
01:51:10,600 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 2: I love the one that the quote from that video

1975
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:16,280
Speaker 2: I love is it's really doing depressing piece of music, Brian.

1976
01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:18,599
Speaker 2: If I don't put it on one of my arms,

1977
01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:19,760
Speaker 2: why don't we just save it for one of your

1978
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:20,360
Speaker 2: weird ones.

1979
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 1: Tony Visconti doing a lot more than people think.

1980
01:51:24,720 --> 01:51:26,960
Speaker 2: Can we add some reverb on there? Sure thing? Co

1981
01:51:27,000 --> 01:51:30,519
Speaker 2: producer Tony Visconti adding reverb. Probably doing a lot more

1982
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:34,840
Speaker 2: than most people would actually think on this record. Uh

1983
01:51:36,360 --> 01:51:38,600
Speaker 2: punch that in, man, Yeah, it's so good instead of

1984
01:51:38,600 --> 01:51:43,559
Speaker 2: my impression, and folks can compare so well.

1985
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:45,599
Speaker 3: Have you been up to while I've been away? Brian, Well,

1986
01:51:45,640 --> 01:51:47,719
Speaker 3: I've been working on a piece of music. Actually, David,

1987
01:51:48,479 --> 01:51:50,320
Speaker 3: if you don't like it, I'll use it on one

1988
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:52,240
Speaker 3: of my weird albums. Do you want to have a listen?

1989
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 2: Yes, I'd love to hear it.

1990
01:51:53,479 --> 01:51:55,720
Speaker 3: I could use some cheering up. Could you roll the

1991
01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:58,200
Speaker 3: tape for us, please, Tony Visconti, Yeah, sure, I mean

1992
01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:00,600
Speaker 3: I am co producing this record, so it's not a

1993
01:52:00,600 --> 01:52:02,679
Speaker 3: big problem for me doing a lot of co production.

1994
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:04,360
Speaker 3: Probably more than people think.

1995
01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:18,519
Speaker 2: Here we go, so there you go. Lisa Gerard has

1996
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:22,160
Speaker 2: stated of this approach, I sing in the language of

1997
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:26,960
Speaker 2: the heart, to which I say it is an invented

1998
01:52:27,040 --> 01:52:29,679
Speaker 2: language I've had for a very long time. I believe

1999
01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:31,960
Speaker 2: I started singing in it when I was about twelve.

2000
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:34,360
Speaker 2: I believed that I was speaking to God when I

2001
01:52:34,400 --> 01:52:39,760
Speaker 2: sang in that language. Sure thing, Lisa Jordan stifling a yawn, No,

2002
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:40,600
Speaker 2: I wasn't a yawn it.

2003
01:52:40,960 --> 01:52:45,720
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of like her and torri Amos and

2004
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:50,679
Speaker 1: died oh uh and who else? And Kate Bush maybe

2005
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:53,880
Speaker 1: and maybe even Stevie Nicks. I'm just thinking of this

2006
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:58,360
Speaker 1: coven of like slightly Celtic witchy ladies. Yeah, there's something

2007
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:00,000
Speaker 1: that's a big one. I'm forgetting only one.

2008
01:52:59,880 --> 01:53:02,400
Speaker 2: Of them had the brass balls and dame an entire

2009
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:06,400
Speaker 2: song after a reverb patch would be our Deer or

2010
01:53:06,439 --> 01:53:08,320
Speaker 2: an engineer, which would be our dear Enya.

2011
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:10,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, that was the one I was thinking of that.

2012
01:53:10,920 --> 01:53:13,960
Speaker 2: I yeah, Orinoco Flow fun fun fact for people is

2013
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:17,360
Speaker 2: both the name of the river and let me just

2014
01:53:17,400 --> 01:53:20,000
Speaker 2: double check that. Yes, the title of Orinoco Flow is

2015
01:53:20,040 --> 01:53:22,479
Speaker 2: an illusion to both the river and the studio where

2016
01:53:22,479 --> 01:53:25,479
Speaker 2: it was recorded. Ah, And she says that in the

2017
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:29,080
Speaker 2: song with Rob Dickens at the Wheel also co producer,

2018
01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:30,559
Speaker 2: this is so funny to me. I just think it's

2019
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:33,200
Speaker 2: so funny. Then, and everyone whateveryone thinks about or the Flow,

2020
01:53:33,200 --> 01:53:36,800
Speaker 2: They just go sllo way say hello way way right.

2021
01:53:37,439 --> 01:53:40,799
Speaker 2: But in those lyrics, she literally says, with Rob Dickens,

2022
01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:44,280
Speaker 2: executive producer of the album at the Wheel and then

2023
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:49,360
Speaker 2: also co producer Ross Column, we can sigh say goodbye

2024
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:53,720
Speaker 2: Ross and his dependencies, which is a pun on the

2025
01:53:53,880 --> 01:53:58,759
Speaker 2: Ross dependency region of Antarctica, and yeah, man that whips.

2026
01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:01,120
Speaker 1: Should we do a I was joking about this with

2027
01:54:01,160 --> 01:54:03,960
Speaker 1: front of the pod Dora. Should we do a Pure

2028
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:04,880
Speaker 1: Moods episode?

2029
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:08,400
Speaker 2: Yes, Jordan, we should.

2030
01:54:08,600 --> 01:54:11,120
Speaker 1: I can't tell if everything sarcastic, but I know I'm.

2031
01:54:10,920 --> 01:54:14,640
Speaker 2: Being dead series that could be a joint one. And

2032
01:54:14,920 --> 01:54:17,520
Speaker 2: let's do pure moods. That would be awesome.

2033
01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:21,240
Speaker 1: Because there's so many great songs on there with insane stories.

2034
01:54:21,280 --> 01:54:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, even Mike Oldfield and you what else is

2035
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:24,439
Speaker 1: some pure moods?

2036
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:30,400
Speaker 2: X Files theme a trance a trance remix.

2037
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:32,440
Speaker 1: Of the X Files theme of memory serves right, right,

2038
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:36,000
Speaker 1: right right, Vangelis share it's a fire. Of course, there's

2039
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:39,640
Speaker 1: Anyo Marconi song which I don't remember which one, uh

2040
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:43,800
Speaker 1: Chiemihi's not familiar with. I would have thought they would

2041
01:54:43,800 --> 01:54:47,080
Speaker 1: have gone with, Oh and the mission and theme from

2042
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:48,200
Speaker 1: the mission too.

2043
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:51,360
Speaker 2: I was gonna say Gabriels Gabriel's Obo.

2044
01:54:51,480 --> 01:54:55,080
Speaker 1: Kenny g Songbird of course, another Green World Brian Eno

2045
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:57,080
Speaker 1: Twin Peaks theme of course.

2046
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:03,160
Speaker 2: Yep, great, Yeah, that would rule. Yeah, No, that's really fun.

2047
01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:07,000
Speaker 1: And now we get to kind of my favorite section

2048
01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:16,760
Speaker 1: of this episode, historical fact checking, granular, pedantic No. So yes,

2049
01:55:18,080 --> 01:55:19,960
Speaker 1: as you may have gleaned from what everyone said so

2050
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:23,600
Speaker 1: far about this film, total historical accuracy was very much

2051
01:55:23,720 --> 01:55:27,560
Speaker 1: not a concern for this production. Aside from the spinning crossbow,

2052
01:55:27,640 --> 01:55:30,080
Speaker 1: which we know for a fact didn't exist. There are

2053
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:32,800
Speaker 1: a number of other inaccuracies that have been raised since

2054
01:55:32,840 --> 01:55:37,400
Speaker 1: the film first hit screens, which allegedly costs historians working

2055
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:40,440
Speaker 1: as consultants on the film to either quit or ask

2056
01:55:40,480 --> 01:55:43,520
Speaker 1: their names be removed from the credits. Fact number one.

2057
01:55:44,240 --> 01:55:47,320
Speaker 1: Despite looking cool as hell, catapults and the arrow firing

2058
01:55:47,400 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 1: scorpions depicted in the opening scene probably wouldn't have been

2059
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:54,080
Speaker 1: deployed for ground combat in a forested area. Those were

2060
01:55:54,160 --> 01:55:58,720
Speaker 1: largely siege tools and considered unwieldly for fighting in open battles,

2061
01:55:59,080 --> 01:56:03,480
Speaker 1: particularly one surrounded by trees. Fact number two. In real life,

2062
01:56:03,600 --> 01:56:07,000
Speaker 1: Marcus Aurelius did not ban gladiator fights as his filmic

2063
01:56:07,120 --> 01:56:07,720
Speaker 1: version did.

2064
01:56:08,360 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 2: He did stop attempted to do right.

2065
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:14,120
Speaker 1: However, he did stop funding them from the Imperial Coffers

2066
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:17,560
Speaker 1: as a budgetary move, and some historical records also claim

2067
01:56:17,640 --> 01:56:21,160
Speaker 1: that he suggested a switch to wooden swords so that

2068
01:56:21,280 --> 01:56:26,160
Speaker 1: skilled gladiators wouldn't die in the arena, which was itself

2069
01:56:26,200 --> 01:56:28,920
Speaker 1: a way to ensure that he'd have reserves of gladiators

2070
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:31,520
Speaker 1: to draft in battle. So okay, anything nice that he

2071
01:56:31,560 --> 01:56:33,960
Speaker 1: did for these people was done purely to benefit the state.

2072
01:56:34,720 --> 01:56:35,120
Speaker 2: Love it.

2073
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:38,480
Speaker 1: Marcus Aurelius was not murdered by his son Commitists in

2074
01:56:38,520 --> 01:56:42,480
Speaker 1: real life. He died of probably disease related natural causes

2075
01:56:43,040 --> 01:56:47,560
Speaker 1: in one eighteen CE after three years of essentially acting

2076
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 1: as co emperor with Commdasts.

2077
01:56:49,600 --> 01:56:50,720
Speaker 2: Commonists only ruled.

2078
01:56:50,520 --> 01:56:53,000
Speaker 1: Alone for about twelve more years until his death in

2079
01:56:53,120 --> 01:56:56,800
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety two CE. Common era fact number three,

2080
01:56:56,840 --> 01:57:00,320
Speaker 1: The film's hero never existed. This one's had of a

2081
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:04,280
Speaker 1: gimme Maximus is likely a combination of several historical figures,

2082
01:57:04,480 --> 01:57:08,600
Speaker 1: including Tarutinus Patronus, the commander of Roman forces at the

2083
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:10,880
Speaker 1: Great Battle against the Germanic tribes in.

2084
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 2: One seventy nine A. D.

2085
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:17,520
Speaker 1: Narcissius, the wrestler who actually killed Commodius in real life.

2086
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:20,160
Speaker 2: Which was originally the name in the script. That was

2087
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:22,000
Speaker 2: Maximus's character in the script got to give it to

2088
01:57:22,040 --> 01:57:23,440
Speaker 2: David Franzoni for that.

2089
01:57:23,880 --> 01:57:27,080
Speaker 1: Did he change it because everyone thinks of narcissists when

2090
01:57:27,120 --> 01:57:27,960
Speaker 1: they hear that, or.

2091
01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:33,360
Speaker 2: Just I think Ridley Scott bullied him. Any change of

2092
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:37,000
Speaker 2: this could probably come down to like an irascible Englishman

2093
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:40,200
Speaker 2: and an old fish Australian man leaned over him and said,

2094
01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:41,320
Speaker 2: I think we should do this.

2095
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:45,720
Speaker 1: And also another real life person who likely factored into

2096
01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:50,600
Speaker 1: the character of Maximus is Tiberius Claudius Pompeianus. That sounds

2097
01:57:50,640 --> 01:57:52,520
Speaker 1: like a made up name. That sounds like something from

2098
01:57:52,520 --> 01:57:55,760
Speaker 1: money Pipon's Life of Barn. He came from a humble

2099
01:57:55,800 --> 01:57:58,800
Speaker 1: background in Syria and became a favorite general of Marcus

2100
01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:01,080
Speaker 1: Aurelius in real life, marrying.

2101
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:02,160
Speaker 2: His daughter Lucia.

2102
01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 1: I'll tell us more facts.

2103
01:58:03,560 --> 01:58:06,440
Speaker 2: I love the facts. Well. Keen, Phoenix's commodist was so

2104
01:58:06,640 --> 01:58:10,200
Speaker 2: much worse in real life. He was only eighteen at

2105
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:11,880
Speaker 2: the time of the death his father and was very

2106
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:15,720
Speaker 2: serious about his gladiatorial training. He allegedly boasted six hundred

2107
01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:22,480
Speaker 2: and twenty victories according to his own writings, and this

2108
01:58:22,640 --> 01:58:26,640
Speaker 2: is actually probably accurate because nobody would actually try and

2109
01:58:26,720 --> 01:58:32,360
Speaker 2: kill the emperor, so like he was the Harlem globetrotters

2110
01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:36,240
Speaker 2: of Gladiator or by deforce, he's spinning the sword on

2111
01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:39,880
Speaker 2: his finger, just stab him. He's got a lumper, he's

2112
01:58:39,880 --> 01:58:43,280
Speaker 2: got a ladder, so this would he would spare their

2113
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:46,320
Speaker 2: lives though, But while he was practicing, though, he did

2114
01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:49,520
Speaker 2: like to kill his sparring partners. He was just kind

2115
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:51,560
Speaker 2: of a male slot of the era. A lot of

2116
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:55,360
Speaker 2: writings make reference to his good looks and height, but

2117
01:58:55,440 --> 01:58:59,000
Speaker 2: he didn't have a thing for his sister. Just hundreds

2118
01:58:59,440 --> 01:59:02,760
Speaker 2: of conki male, one of which may have been a sister.

2119
01:59:02,960 --> 01:59:05,040
Speaker 2: Who's to say they slip in in the middle of

2120
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:07,720
Speaker 2: one of the lurgies done, you know, there'd be no

2121
01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:10,440
Speaker 2: way of knowing, there would no be yeah, you know,

2122
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:14,240
Speaker 2: writings about the real Commudists paint him is just kind

2123
01:59:14,240 --> 01:59:18,720
Speaker 2: of stupid with a sadistic streak, a bit cowardly and

2124
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:22,840
Speaker 2: overly impressionable. Mostly just a himbo who was really into

2125
01:59:22,880 --> 01:59:26,600
Speaker 2: slaughtering exotic animals in Rome's arenas, but not just limited

2126
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:30,360
Speaker 2: to that. He publicly slaughtered amputees who were veterans of

2127
01:59:30,440 --> 01:59:34,560
Speaker 2: Roman wars, a fun little quirk, and though he wasn't

2128
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:36,960
Speaker 2: actually killed by a gladiator in the ring, he did

2129
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:40,520
Speaker 2: meet a suitably brutal end. First, he was poisoned by

2130
01:59:40,520 --> 01:59:43,920
Speaker 2: his mistress, and although that didn't take while recovering from

2131
01:59:44,000 --> 01:59:49,760
Speaker 2: this process, his enemies tasked Commatist's wrestling partner, the aforementioned Narcissus,

2132
01:59:50,240 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 2: with strangling the emperor in the bath. The entire thumb system,

2133
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:57,600
Speaker 2: and this is much funnier, is actually inverted. In ancient Rome,

2134
01:59:57,800 --> 02:00:01,440
Speaker 2: thumbs up meant raise your sword and strike the killing blow,

2135
02:00:01,760 --> 02:00:05,840
Speaker 2: while thumbs down meant lower and sheath your sword. But

2136
02:00:06,000 --> 02:00:08,920
Speaker 2: because of the ingrained modern associations with the gestures, they

2137
02:00:08,960 --> 02:00:12,080
Speaker 2: have been inverted in pretty much all gladiatorial depictions. Is

2138
02:00:12,200 --> 02:00:13,080
Speaker 2: that interesting, Jordan?

2139
02:00:13,880 --> 02:00:15,000
Speaker 1: That's I like that a lot.

2140
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:18,360
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. Now we give somebody the thumbs up,

2141
02:00:18,400 --> 02:00:20,360
Speaker 2: you can really mean I want someone to raise a

2142
02:00:20,360 --> 02:00:25,480
Speaker 2: sword and kill you. The film's nod to Christianity as

2143
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:28,720
Speaker 2: religion are completely incorrect. The movie opens in one ADC,

2144
02:00:29,040 --> 02:00:31,920
Speaker 2: but Christianity didn't make any headway over the Roman Empire

2145
02:00:32,040 --> 02:00:35,200
Speaker 2: until about two hundred years later. Most characters in the

2146
02:00:35,200 --> 02:00:37,680
Speaker 2: film referred to the arena as the Colosseum, the twenty

2147
02:00:37,680 --> 02:00:40,280
Speaker 2: first century name of the massive structure. However, in the

2148
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:43,520
Speaker 2: ancient world it is known much less casually as the

2149
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:46,840
Speaker 2: Flavian Amphitheater, after one of the emperors who aided in

2150
02:00:46,880 --> 02:00:49,800
Speaker 2: its construction. Not until the Middle Ages did people refer

2151
02:00:49,880 --> 02:00:53,000
Speaker 2: to it as the Colosseum. The notion of Maximus being

2152
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:57,160
Speaker 2: known as a Spaniard is preposterous. The Romans had occupied

2153
02:00:57,160 --> 02:01:00,800
Speaker 2: the Iberian Peninsula and the region was known as Hispania,

2154
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:03,680
Speaker 2: but it was just considered part of Rome. The earliest

2155
02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:05,760
Speaker 2: use of the term Spaniard didn't even pop up until

2156
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:09,560
Speaker 2: the fifteenth century. The entire naming conventions used in the

2157
02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:12,720
Speaker 2: movie are inaccurate. Romans had three names, the first name,

2158
02:01:12,760 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 2: the family name, and then an added name denoting position

2159
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:19,200
Speaker 2: e g. Gayis Julius Caesar, who would went by Caesar.

2160
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:22,160
Speaker 2: High ranking Romans went by their second or third name,

2161
02:01:22,200 --> 02:01:24,480
Speaker 2: since they weren't as common, so as in the film,

2162
02:01:24,560 --> 02:01:27,960
Speaker 2: someone named Maximus Decimus Meritis would have been addressed as

2163
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:31,520
Speaker 2: either Decimus or Meredis. While there are plenty of minute

2164
02:01:31,520 --> 02:01:34,160
Speaker 2: anachronisms as far as the wardrobe, arms, and armor, one

2165
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:36,400
Speaker 2: of the worst is probably the every German in the

2166
02:01:36,440 --> 02:01:39,600
Speaker 2: opening scene are depicted as wearing Stone Age era clothing

2167
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:43,320
Speaker 2: like animal skins and such, which ended about two thousand

2168
02:01:43,440 --> 02:01:46,200
Speaker 2: years before the events depicted in the film. Lastly, the

2169
02:01:46,360 --> 02:01:48,560
Speaker 2: entire note of the film ending on the restoration of

2170
02:01:48,600 --> 02:01:51,840
Speaker 2: the republic and the rule of the people in Rome

2171
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:56,879
Speaker 2: as Maximus peacefully dies, that sure didn't happen. Firstly, horrible

2172
02:01:56,920 --> 02:02:01,440
Speaker 2: things happened to commentist's sister, Lucilla Chilla. For being Italian,

2173
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:05,080
Speaker 2: she was married off twice to her father's political allies,

2174
02:02:05,400 --> 02:02:08,200
Speaker 2: and then after her brother succeeded their father as emperor,

2175
02:02:08,520 --> 02:02:11,160
Speaker 2: she became concerned about his behavior and concluded that he

2176
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:14,680
Speaker 2: must be overthrown. She orchestrated an attempt to rid rom

2177
02:02:14,720 --> 02:02:17,160
Speaker 2: of her brother, but this plot failed and she was

2178
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:21,800
Speaker 2: banished to the Isle of Capri, where she was later executed. Then,

2179
02:02:22,040 --> 02:02:25,680
Speaker 2: when the next assassination attempt on communist did succeed, rule

2180
02:02:25,880 --> 02:02:29,240
Speaker 2: hardly returned to the people. There was a predictable rush

2181
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:31,600
Speaker 2: to fill the power vacuum, and the year one ninety

2182
02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:35,000
Speaker 2: three CE following his death was dubbed the year of

2183
02:02:35,120 --> 02:02:39,440
Speaker 2: five Emperors. The last of those guys was Septimius Severus,

2184
02:02:39,440 --> 02:02:43,080
Speaker 2: and the forty two year dynasty of his messy, messy,

2185
02:02:43,120 --> 02:02:46,720
Speaker 2: turbulent family then precipitated a period in Roman history known

2186
02:02:46,720 --> 02:02:52,160
Speaker 2: as the Crisis of the third century. So that sucks

2187
02:02:52,680 --> 02:02:57,839
Speaker 2: for him and his family. Most hilariously, the filmmakers omitted

2188
02:02:58,000 --> 02:03:01,720
Speaker 2: one actual piece of document historical fact that they simply

2189
02:03:01,720 --> 02:03:05,839
Speaker 2: found too silly for the film. Gladiators were like today's athletes,

2190
02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:09,880
Speaker 2: popular figure for product endorsements, and one of the script

2191
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:14,440
Speaker 2: drafts contained a real life detail that Maximus, who is

2192
02:03:14,520 --> 02:03:17,960
Speaker 2: then named Narcissus, would have seen himself portrayed in an

2193
02:03:18,000 --> 02:03:22,200
Speaker 2: ad for all of Oil, with the copy Narcissus would

2194
02:03:22,320 --> 02:03:27,040
Speaker 2: kill for a taste of Golden Pompeii olive oil. Wait,

2195
02:03:27,360 --> 02:03:32,600
Speaker 2: is that like actually the extent dead ass? Bro? Wow?

2196
02:03:33,320 --> 02:03:35,160
Speaker 2: Take out the fact that I said that. I don't

2197
02:03:35,200 --> 02:03:38,080
Speaker 2: know why I responded in that way. Was I going

2198
02:03:38,200 --> 02:03:39,800
Speaker 2: to find something a little bit more, a little bit

2199
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:41,480
Speaker 2: more in detail about this live.

2200
02:03:42,640 --> 02:03:44,960
Speaker 1: You know, I never really thought of them as being public.

2201
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:46,640
Speaker 2: Well you see them, I mean, you see in the

2202
02:03:46,640 --> 02:03:51,240
Speaker 2: film the action figures, which were a real thing. I mean,

2203
02:03:51,280 --> 02:03:55,680
Speaker 2: I guess we're splitting hairs over what product placement or

2204
02:03:55,800 --> 02:03:59,280
Speaker 2: endorsements actually means, because there would have been mosaics and

2205
02:04:00,480 --> 02:04:05,000
Speaker 2: literal advertisements in the day portraying specific gladiators, But if

2206
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:08,800
Speaker 2: there were products associated, they were not They did not

2207
02:04:08,920 --> 02:04:14,600
Speaker 2: receive funds from them. So depending on what you're but yes,

2208
02:04:14,760 --> 02:04:19,200
Speaker 2: they would they were used in product advertisements. Anyway.

2209
02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:22,560
Speaker 1: As filming dragged to a close, there was a bit

2210
02:04:22,560 --> 02:04:25,440
Speaker 1: of a pal around the project. In Hollywood, the death

2211
02:04:25,440 --> 02:04:29,040
Speaker 1: of Oliver Reed kicked the rumor mill around production into overdrive,

2212
02:04:29,160 --> 02:04:31,360
Speaker 1: that it was over budget, that it was at the bacle,

2213
02:04:31,440 --> 02:04:34,680
Speaker 1: that it was dead on arrival. Funnily enough, early in

2214
02:04:34,720 --> 02:04:38,280
Speaker 1: pre production, Spielberg suggested that the film's producers use a

2215
02:04:38,320 --> 02:04:41,680
Speaker 1: fake name will shooting, as he'd offered them with his movies.

2216
02:04:42,160 --> 02:04:45,280
Speaker 1: He pitched them the name the hot Rod Project, as

2217
02:04:45,320 --> 02:04:48,040
Speaker 1: he was worried that other studios would catch wind and

2218
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:50,840
Speaker 1: rush their own rejiggered Sword and Sandal epics out to

2219
02:04:50,840 --> 02:04:52,800
Speaker 1: beat the new studio on the block to the punch.

2220
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:55,560
Speaker 1: Because this was very early in DreamWorks life is probably

2221
02:04:55,600 --> 02:05:00,280
Speaker 1: in the first like four years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The

2222
02:05:00,360 --> 02:05:02,920
Speaker 1: rumor mill did turn out to be wrong, but in fun,

2223
02:05:03,080 --> 02:05:07,400
Speaker 1: hilarious ways. Screenwriter David Franzoni told Yahoo, a lot of

2224
02:05:07,400 --> 02:05:10,640
Speaker 1: people thought we were making Cone in three. They had

2225
02:05:10,680 --> 02:05:13,120
Speaker 1: no idea what the hell we were doing. In fact,

2226
02:05:13,240 --> 02:05:16,120
Speaker 1: somebody suggested that perhaps we had Schwarzenegger as the big

2227
02:05:16,160 --> 02:05:19,080
Speaker 1: gladiator with the tigers. The other level was that we

2228
02:05:19,080 --> 02:05:21,760
Speaker 1: were out of our minds and shooting a terrible, horrible

2229
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:25,560
Speaker 1: Sword and Sandals movie that nobody would go see. Franzoni

2230
02:05:25,560 --> 02:05:28,880
Speaker 1: also alleges that Russell quote, until he saw the final cut,

2231
02:05:29,320 --> 02:05:32,040
Speaker 1: thought it was the end of his career. That's my impression.

2232
02:05:32,360 --> 02:05:35,960
Speaker 1: I guarantee you he was really worried. Our beloved Australia

2233
02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:36,840
Speaker 1: need not have worried.

2234
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:39,640
Speaker 2: Please don't come to my house, Russell Crowe and explain

2235
02:05:39,720 --> 02:05:40,400
Speaker 2: your passions.

2236
02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:44,840
Speaker 1: Gladiator was released in the United States and Canada on

2237
02:05:45,040 --> 02:05:48,320
Speaker 1: May fifth, two thousand. The film spent a toll of

2238
02:05:48,360 --> 02:05:50,240
Speaker 1: ten weeks at the top of the box office and

2239
02:05:50,360 --> 02:05:53,360
Speaker 1: was in theaters for over a year, finishing as theatrical

2240
02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:55,840
Speaker 1: run on May tenth, two thousand and one, for a

2241
02:05:55,840 --> 02:05:58,640
Speaker 1: total gross of one hundred and eighty seven point seven

2242
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:02,320
Speaker 1: million dollars. Released to the rest of the world, Gladiator

2243
02:06:02,360 --> 02:06:05,760
Speaker 1: grossed two hundred and seventy two point nine million for

2244
02:06:05,920 --> 02:06:09,240
Speaker 1: total worldwide gross a four hundred and sixty point six

2245
02:06:09,320 --> 02:06:11,960
Speaker 1: million against the budget of one hundred and three million,

2246
02:06:12,280 --> 02:06:15,640
Speaker 1: making it the second highest grossing film worldwide in two thousand,

2247
02:06:16,520 --> 02:06:22,200
Speaker 1: behind Mission Impossible Too. I guess big, no, lot first

2248
02:06:22,200 --> 02:06:23,080
Speaker 1: one was the first one?

2249
02:06:23,120 --> 02:06:25,480
Speaker 2: Was DiPalma? Right? Who did the second one? Oh, that's

2250
02:06:25,480 --> 02:06:27,840
Speaker 2: a good question. I don't know. You forget how big

2251
02:06:27,880 --> 02:06:29,800
Speaker 2: that movie was that's the one where he's like hanging

2252
02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:33,680
Speaker 2: on the cliff, John woomb that's why woh hanging on

2253
02:06:33,720 --> 02:06:38,160
Speaker 2: the cliff and Metallica's like, ooh yeah, that's the fuel song.

2254
02:06:38,320 --> 02:06:40,160
Speaker 2: Or no it's not no, it's I Disappear.

2255
02:06:40,400 --> 02:06:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was five years before the

2256
02:06:44,160 --> 02:06:48,280
Speaker 1: next one. It was John Moodon Lately not much eo

2257
02:06:48,480 --> 02:06:50,680
Speaker 1: ooh yo, this is bad looking.

2258
02:06:50,920 --> 02:06:54,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he remade A he remade A well, he got

2259
02:06:54,200 --> 02:06:56,600
Speaker 2: really obsessed with Oh no, that was Angley that got

2260
02:06:56,600 --> 02:06:58,920
Speaker 2: really obsessed with sixty frames per second and made that

2261
02:06:59,080 --> 02:07:02,160
Speaker 2: bad action movie with Will Smith and cgi younger Will

2262
02:07:02,160 --> 02:07:06,280
Speaker 2: Smith against himself, John Wu I think just recently remade

2263
02:07:07,080 --> 02:07:10,840
Speaker 2: The Killer for Netflix, but a woke version in which

2264
02:07:10,920 --> 02:07:14,200
Speaker 2: Chaiu Fat's role has been usurped by a black woman,

2265
02:07:14,560 --> 02:07:17,320
Speaker 2: which I did watch, and it's a perfectly crimulent film.

2266
02:07:17,320 --> 02:07:20,360
Speaker 2: It's just it's not the Killer. Nothing will ever be

2267
02:07:20,520 --> 02:07:23,080
Speaker 2: The Killer again. Yeah, I don't know, man, he's kind

2268
02:07:23,080 --> 02:07:24,920
Speaker 2: of stumbled in Hollywood. I felt bad for him. He

2269
02:07:24,960 --> 02:07:28,920
Speaker 2: had a great ron he did Hard Target with JCVD,

2270
02:07:29,640 --> 02:07:32,360
Speaker 2: Face Off Am I two and then.

2271
02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:36,280
Speaker 1: A lot of the critics, however, really had it in

2272
02:07:36,360 --> 02:07:39,640
Speaker 1: for the script. Ian Nathan of Empire magazine called the

2273
02:07:39,680 --> 02:07:44,600
Speaker 1: dialogue pompous, overwritten, and prone to plain silliness. Well, Roger

2274
02:07:44,640 --> 02:07:48,440
Speaker 1: Ebert said, the script quote employs depression as a substitute

2275
02:07:48,440 --> 02:07:49,400
Speaker 1: for personality.

2276
02:07:50,040 --> 02:07:54,760
Speaker 2: That's my thing, Roger, come on, Bud and believes that

2277
02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:57,960
Speaker 2: if characters are bitter and morose enough, we won't notice

2278
02:07:58,000 --> 02:07:58,880
Speaker 2: how dull they are.

2279
02:07:59,200 --> 02:08:03,520
Speaker 1: You're not dull, but you know what, Critics be damned.

2280
02:08:03,960 --> 02:08:06,320
Speaker 1: It got a decent amount of hardware at the Oscars.

2281
02:08:06,680 --> 02:08:09,120
Speaker 2: Yes, Gladiator entered the stacked arena of the two thousand

2282
02:08:09,120 --> 02:08:12,080
Speaker 2: and one Oscars with twelve nominations, and it did face

2283
02:08:12,400 --> 02:08:17,360
Speaker 2: stiff competition that year. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Almost Famous, Traffic,

2284
02:08:17,520 --> 02:08:21,040
Speaker 2: and Aaron Brockovich were all popular Academy picks, and Gladiator

2285
02:08:21,080 --> 02:08:23,400
Speaker 2: won five of the twelve awards. It was nominated for

2286
02:08:23,720 --> 02:08:27,680
Speaker 2: Best Picture, Best Actor for Crow, Best Visual Effects, Best Sound,

2287
02:08:27,760 --> 02:08:31,720
Speaker 2: and Best Costume Design. Ridley Scott lost out on Best Director,

2288
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:35,040
Speaker 2: and Franzoni went away empty handed for Best Original Screenplay

2289
02:08:35,560 --> 02:08:38,960
Speaker 2: and Joaquin Phoenix lost Best Supporting Actor. Hans Zimmer lost,

2290
02:08:39,000 --> 02:08:42,440
Speaker 2: which is great, and they also lost Best Cinematography, Art Direction,

2291
02:08:42,600 --> 02:08:45,800
Speaker 2: and Film Editing. In case you were wondering. Stephen Soderberg

2292
02:08:45,880 --> 02:08:48,960
Speaker 2: and Benzio do Toro won Best Director and Best Supporting

2293
02:08:49,000 --> 02:08:52,240
Speaker 2: Actor for Traffic. Best Original Screenplay went to Cameron Crow

2294
02:08:52,320 --> 02:08:56,040
Speaker 2: for Almost Famous, which is objectively correct, and Best Score

2295
02:08:56,120 --> 02:08:59,720
Speaker 2: went to Tan Done for Crouching Tiger. The other Technical

2296
02:08:59,720 --> 02:09:04,440
Speaker 2: award we're also given out Ridley's memory. I mean, I

2297
02:09:04,440 --> 02:09:06,200
Speaker 2: mean it's such a bummer man, Like they really need

2298
02:09:06,200 --> 02:09:08,440
Speaker 2: to give out a stunt oscar first of all. But like,

2299
02:09:08,600 --> 02:09:10,560
Speaker 2: even though I'm in ther for this kind of it

2300
02:09:10,680 --> 02:09:13,400
Speaker 2: is just so funny that like they literally give the

2301
02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:17,760
Speaker 2: technical awards out like a completely different day and broadcast.

2302
02:09:18,840 --> 02:09:21,520
Speaker 2: People work their entire lives in Hollywood, create all these

2303
02:09:21,560 --> 02:09:26,040
Speaker 2: magnificent technical you know, contributions push the art form forward,

2304
02:09:26,080 --> 02:09:28,320
Speaker 2: and they're like, yeah, you get four pm the day

2305
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:35,560
Speaker 2: before and we're not going to televise it. No open bar, yeah,

2306
02:09:35,600 --> 02:09:39,360
Speaker 2: cash bar. H Ridley's memory of the night in Variety

2307
02:09:39,560 --> 02:09:42,400
Speaker 2: was I was knocked over in the trample so bitter.

2308
02:09:42,760 --> 02:09:46,440
Speaker 2: I love it. I mean, maybe justifiably so. I don't know.

2309
02:09:46,760 --> 02:09:48,560
Speaker 2: I was knocked over in the trample to get on

2310
02:09:48,640 --> 02:09:50,880
Speaker 2: stage because I'd actually given up the right to be

2311
02:09:50,880 --> 02:09:54,160
Speaker 2: a producer. Because there's so many producers. I said, oh,

2312
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:56,600
Speaker 2: what the I won't bother and I was run over

2313
02:09:56,680 --> 02:09:58,440
Speaker 2: when they all got up on the stage. So I

2314
02:09:58,520 --> 02:10:01,480
Speaker 2: just sat down, thinking I'm not gonna do that again.

2315
02:10:02,360 --> 02:10:04,240
Speaker 2: Why do people go to bat for him? Man? He

2316
02:10:04,280 --> 02:10:07,640
Speaker 2: seems like such an a It's all because of Alien

2317
02:10:07,800 --> 02:10:12,280
Speaker 2: and Blade Runner, right, Yeah, I mean, I solid bragging

2318
02:10:12,360 --> 02:10:16,840
Speaker 2: rights man. Ridley's story does have a semi happy ending,

2319
02:10:16,960 --> 02:10:20,960
Speaker 2: though years later, despite not getting the Best Director trophy,

2320
02:10:21,120 --> 02:10:24,520
Speaker 2: he did wind up with a different statue Italian actress

2321
02:10:24,640 --> 02:10:29,360
Speaker 2: jen Nino Faccio, who played Maximus's murdered wife. That's nice.

2322
02:10:29,400 --> 02:10:32,800
Speaker 2: He just married a lady he met on a film stories.

2323
02:10:32,920 --> 02:10:36,879
Speaker 2: Yeah now, yeah, you said people finding love? People finding

2324
02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:42,200
Speaker 2: love on movie sets. He checked at House of Gucci. Jesus,

2325
02:10:42,880 --> 02:10:49,600
Speaker 2: that film has the most preposterously offensive alive face I

2326
02:10:49,600 --> 02:10:53,600
Speaker 2: have ever seen in my life. Yo. Obviously we should

2327
02:10:53,640 --> 02:10:58,520
Speaker 2: get to all the sexual misconduct allegations first for Jared Leto,

2328
02:10:58,600 --> 02:11:00,600
Speaker 2: but then we need to break a pain or a

2329
02:11:00,640 --> 02:11:03,200
Speaker 2: thumb or something for what he does in that movie.

2330
02:11:03,480 --> 02:11:07,920
Speaker 2: It is so it's, like I say it, it's like

2331
02:11:07,920 --> 02:11:12,920
Speaker 2: an Italian minstrel show. I said, but enough of this, this,

2332
02:11:13,160 --> 02:11:17,280
Speaker 2: this preceding two hours has been but a taste, an apport,

2333
02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:21,840
Speaker 2: not apperteeve an amused boosh for the real meat of

2334
02:11:21,880 --> 02:11:28,360
Speaker 2: this episode, Nick Cave's batch script for Gladiator too. It

2335
02:11:28,440 --> 02:11:29,920
Speaker 2: is a well known bit of law at this point

2336
02:11:29,960 --> 02:11:33,160
Speaker 2: that Australian vampire crooner and goth icon Nick Cave was

2337
02:11:33,200 --> 02:11:38,520
Speaker 2: tapped to write a sequel to Gladiator, And that's basically it.

2338
02:11:38,680 --> 02:11:41,240
Speaker 2: We don't know that much about this thing other than

2339
02:11:41,280 --> 02:11:44,400
Speaker 2: one interview and Mark bron and like glancing bits of

2340
02:11:44,440 --> 02:11:47,200
Speaker 2: commentary from Ridley Scott, but everyone is in love with

2341
02:11:47,240 --> 02:11:50,160
Speaker 2: it because of how cool it is. Who tapped him

2342
02:11:50,160 --> 02:11:55,320
Speaker 2: to do that? Russell Crowe supposedly Astralia. This is I know, right,

2343
02:11:55,360 --> 02:11:58,240
Speaker 2: there's like six of them that have succeeded, right, so they.

2344
02:11:58,120 --> 02:11:59,920
Speaker 1: Have to like Peter jacksone's going to Doric.

2345
02:12:00,880 --> 02:12:04,080
Speaker 2: No, he's New Zealand doesn't count. It's like ac DC,

2346
02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:07,840
Speaker 2: Nick Cave, Russell Crowe. I guess they let in old

2347
02:12:07,840 --> 02:12:12,760
Speaker 2: girl now writing it in John No, not her, Barbie

2348
02:12:13,160 --> 02:12:18,080
Speaker 2: Macarab obviously Paul Hogan, Oh yes, yeah, And they just

2349
02:12:18,120 --> 02:12:22,480
Speaker 2: all get together like the QAnon Cabal and plan things

2350
02:12:22,480 --> 02:12:26,520
Speaker 2: for Australia uh. Crow rang me up and asked if

2351
02:12:26,560 --> 02:12:29,920
Speaker 2: I wanted to write Gladiator two. Nick Cave told Mark

2352
02:12:29,960 --> 02:12:34,120
Speaker 2: Maron on I think twenty fifteen episode of What the

2353
02:12:34,440 --> 02:12:35,720
Speaker 2: Mark Marron, I'm gonna.

2354
02:12:35,520 --> 02:12:37,600
Speaker 1: Call you, just ask you randomly if you want to

2355
02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:39,920
Speaker 1: write Gladiator too. I guess Gobby three.

2356
02:12:39,960 --> 02:12:42,600
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I'll take I'll take a stab at three.

2357
02:12:42,640 --> 02:12:44,040
Speaker 2: I just don't know if I could top this. So

2358
02:12:45,320 --> 02:12:47,760
Speaker 2: Nickavid previously only written one film script. It was for

2359
02:12:48,040 --> 02:12:51,000
Speaker 2: something in the eighties about I think it was about

2360
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:57,040
Speaker 2: Australian I remember. Uh. It was quite an ask. He said, Hey, Russell,

2361
02:12:57,520 --> 02:13:01,640
Speaker 2: didn't you die in Gladiator one, which Crow responded, yeah,

2362
02:13:02,240 --> 02:13:08,440
Speaker 2: you sort that out. Cave did as follows quote. Maximus

2363
02:13:08,520 --> 02:13:10,920
Speaker 2: goes down to purgatory and is sent down by the

2364
02:13:10,920 --> 02:13:14,400
Speaker 2: gods who are dying in heaven because there's this one god,

2365
02:13:14,640 --> 02:13:19,000
Speaker 2: there's this Christ character down on Earth who is gaining popularity,

2366
02:13:19,360 --> 02:13:21,880
Speaker 2: and so the many gods are dying, so they send

2367
02:13:21,920 --> 02:13:28,280
Speaker 2: Gladiator Maximus back to kill Christ and his followers. I

2368
02:13:28,320 --> 02:13:32,440
Speaker 2: wanted to call it Christ Killer. And in the end

2369
02:13:33,280 --> 02:13:36,000
Speaker 2: you find out that the main guy was his son,

2370
02:13:36,560 --> 02:13:39,160
Speaker 2: so he has to kill his son and was tricked

2371
02:13:39,200 --> 02:13:42,880
Speaker 2: by the gods. He then becomes this eternal warrior, and

2372
02:13:42,920 --> 02:13:46,200
Speaker 2: it ends with this twenty minute war scene which follows

2373
02:13:46,240 --> 02:13:49,200
Speaker 2: all the wars in history right up to Vietnam and

2374
02:13:49,280 --> 02:13:52,440
Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff. And it was wild. It

2375
02:13:52,480 --> 02:13:56,320
Speaker 2: was a stone cold masterpiece. I enjoyed writing it very

2376
02:13:56,400 --> 02:13:58,360
Speaker 2: much because I knew on every level that it was

2377
02:13:58,400 --> 02:14:02,160
Speaker 2: never going to get made. Cave turned this far out

2378
02:14:02,240 --> 02:14:07,320
Speaker 2: vision into Crow, who, in Cave's words, responded, don't like it. Mate.

2379
02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:11,360
Speaker 2: Cave asked what about the end, to which Crow responded, again,

2380
02:14:11,720 --> 02:14:14,920
Speaker 2: don't like it, mate. And I guess this got worked

2381
02:14:14,920 --> 02:14:18,600
Speaker 2: out because Scott had said in the intervening time that

2382
02:14:18,720 --> 02:14:21,120
Speaker 2: he did actually work on this idea with Crow and Cave.

2383
02:14:21,800 --> 02:14:24,200
Speaker 2: We tried to go with Cave's script riddle. Scott told

2384
02:14:24,320 --> 02:14:27,280
Speaker 2: Ugo Russell didn't want to let it go obviously because

2385
02:14:27,280 --> 02:14:29,800
Speaker 2: it worked very well. And then an all time Ridley

2386
02:14:29,840 --> 02:14:32,880
Speaker 2: Scott quote. When I say worked very well, I don't

2387
02:14:32,920 --> 02:14:35,920
Speaker 2: refer to success. I mean as a piece it works

2388
02:14:36,040 --> 02:14:40,320
Speaker 2: very well storytelling. It works brilliantly. I think Cave enjoyed

2389
02:14:40,360 --> 02:14:41,880
Speaker 2: doing it, and I think it was one of those

2390
02:14:41,920 --> 02:14:44,520
Speaker 2: things he thought, well, maybe there's a sequel where you

2391
02:14:44,560 --> 02:14:47,200
Speaker 2: can adjust the fantasy and bring Maximus back from the dead.

2392
02:14:48,040 --> 02:14:50,640
Speaker 2: In an interview just this month, Ridley Scott gave another

2393
02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:53,440
Speaker 2: quote it got rich and started to go to time warps,

2394
02:14:53,480 --> 02:14:56,440
Speaker 2: which frankly I thought was bloody silly. But the one

2395
02:14:56,520 --> 02:14:59,480
Speaker 2: thing I added to it was this great idea of

2396
02:14:59,560 --> 02:15:03,080
Speaker 2: opening portal of time in death, and it would have

2397
02:15:03,120 --> 02:15:05,760
Speaker 2: come from the dying soul of a dying soldier in

2398
02:15:05,760 --> 02:15:08,840
Speaker 2: a battlefield. Isn't that cool. I kept it as a

2399
02:15:08,840 --> 02:15:14,560
Speaker 2: little silver bullet, thinking I'll use that again somewhere. I

2400
02:15:14,600 --> 02:15:17,200
Speaker 2: hated it, it was silly, we killed it, but my

2401
02:15:17,320 --> 02:15:22,560
Speaker 2: addition to it was great and I'm keeping it. Love him.

2402
02:15:23,320 --> 02:15:25,800
Speaker 2: Years prior to all that, Nick Cave was sanguine about

2403
02:15:25,800 --> 02:15:29,280
Speaker 2: the Project Dissolution. He told Variety, I'm very comfortable my

2404
02:15:29,360 --> 02:15:31,560
Speaker 2: day job as a musician. The last thing I ever

2405
02:15:31,560 --> 02:15:34,040
Speaker 2: wanted to get involved with was Hollywood. The way it

2406
02:15:34,080 --> 02:15:36,000
Speaker 2: works is that people get an idea, you could possibly

2407
02:15:36,000 --> 02:15:38,160
Speaker 2: do something, but there's a one and one hundred chance

2408
02:15:38,160 --> 02:15:40,560
Speaker 2: that it could get made. It's a waste of time

2409
02:15:40,960 --> 02:15:47,879
Speaker 2: and I have a lot to do, like being Nick Cave. Yeah, man,

2410
02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:50,240
Speaker 2: all right, that takes us to the end of Gladiator.

2411
02:15:50,280 --> 02:15:51,760
Speaker 2: I had this whole idea in here for a bit

2412
02:15:51,800 --> 02:15:54,360
Speaker 2: of like, oh, here's my day as a twenty one

2413
02:15:54,480 --> 02:15:56,520
Speaker 2: year old gladiator in film. And then this is a

2414
02:15:56,560 --> 02:15:58,680
Speaker 2: smash cut of a skull getting caved in with a

2415
02:15:58,760 --> 02:16:05,680
Speaker 2: mace TikTok style. But you'll have to imagine that great film.

2416
02:16:05,760 --> 02:16:08,600
Speaker 2: Love it, Go watch it with your boys and hit

2417
02:16:08,640 --> 02:16:11,760
Speaker 2: each other with sticks, as the spirit of the film intended.

2418
02:16:12,000 --> 02:16:13,400
Speaker 1: And don't watch the second one.

2419
02:16:13,520 --> 02:16:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Russell Crowe don't come to my house and

2420
02:16:15,760 --> 02:16:20,840
Speaker 2: explain your passions, Ridley, I think I could take So

2421
02:16:21,880 --> 02:16:24,160
Speaker 2: if you're an elderly British man who's pissed off that

2422
02:16:24,160 --> 02:16:26,120
Speaker 2: I've painted you as a bit of a prick, visit me.

2423
02:16:26,320 --> 02:16:31,000
Speaker 2: Let's settle this all over a Reek style. This has

2424
02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:35,440
Speaker 2: been too much information. I'm Alex Heigel, thanks for listening,

2425
02:16:35,720 --> 02:16:37,199
Speaker 2: and I'm Jordan run Talk.

2426
02:16:37,720 --> 02:16:38,960
Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time.

2427
02:16:44,240 --> 02:16:47,360
Speaker 2: Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio. The show's

2428
02:16:47,400 --> 02:16:50,199
Speaker 2: executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalk.

2429
02:16:50,400 --> 02:16:53,360
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2430
02:16:53,520 --> 02:16:56,360
Speaker 2: The show was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan run

2431
02:16:56,440 --> 02:16:57,760
Speaker 2: Talk and Alex Heigel.

2432
02:16:57,600 --> 02:17:00,840
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2433
02:17:01,160 --> 02:17:03,200
Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2434
02:17:03,240 --> 02:17:03,760
Speaker 2: us a review.

2435
02:17:04,000 --> 02:17:08,359
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2436
02:17:08,560 --> 02:17:10,280
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.