WEBVTT - Are You Convinced Yet? | MiniPod

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<v Speaker 1>Native Land is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with

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<v Speaker 1>Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to our mini pod. You guys heard us on

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<v Speaker 2>the last episode talking about when you're in debate or

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<v Speaker 2>when you're presenting your position, are you trying to convince

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<v Speaker 2>someone and or are you just having conversations? So we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to do a really quick one on this because

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's a good topic and it was Angela's idea,

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<v Speaker 2>so let's talk about it.

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<v Speaker 3>It Actually it came from something you said, I want

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<v Speaker 3>to Can we do a wrap around?

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 3>When here tries to convince people of their position, raise

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<v Speaker 3>your hand, not me.

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<v Speaker 4>Both, y'all really okay listening Angela and Andrew are raising

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<v Speaker 4>a hand.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, I think I used again. This is what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>trying to disassociate myself from the convincing part. But I

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<v Speaker 1>do I think I still argue with the with the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of winning people to my perspective, yeah, I think otherwise,

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<v Speaker 1>what's the point. Yeah, I definitely don't want to be

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<v Speaker 1>heard that much for the point of just wasting the space.

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<v Speaker 1>So I do I do think I when I argue,

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<v Speaker 1>I do think I argue with the intent of bringing

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<v Speaker 1>more people to my point of view the way I

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<v Speaker 1>see things, and and and and that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But I will tell you there are conversations that are

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<v Speaker 1>had where it really is just about understanding better where

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<v Speaker 1>somebody is and maybe letting them understand my perspective better,

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<v Speaker 1>but not moving them necessarily to my side. So but

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<v Speaker 1>I put that in the range of like conversation, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I put debate and argument in a different category.

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<v Speaker 3>What about you, Angelau, yikes, I am. As soon as

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<v Speaker 3>you said that, I'm like, oh, I really do have

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<v Speaker 3>a problem here.

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<v Speaker 5>I am. I think that I'm always.

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<v Speaker 1>Every aspect of your life.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not debating either, But just like I think, I

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<v Speaker 3>think it comes from two places. One is, I do

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<v Speaker 3>think that I want to feel heard, But more than

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<v Speaker 3>feeling hurd I want to feel understood. And so I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know that I'm trying to convince people to think

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<v Speaker 3>like me as much as I am trying to convince

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<v Speaker 3>them to understand my perspective. So one of the things

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<v Speaker 3>my mom has always said to me is one of

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<v Speaker 3>the greatest skills we can learn in life is perspective taking,

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<v Speaker 3>and so I think that I have honestly spent more

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<v Speaker 3>time trying to give my perspective and get empathy, support

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<v Speaker 3>understanding for that than I have placed the same energy

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<v Speaker 3>in doing that for other people, which is why my

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<v Speaker 3>mom has probably repeated that to me tons and tons

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<v Speaker 3>of times. So I need to work on that part

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<v Speaker 3>of it. But I do also I'm competitive and I

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<v Speaker 3>do like to win a debate as well, even if

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<v Speaker 3>it means me ow in the debate.

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<v Speaker 5>So I think I think it's both. It's both.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm here tip experience either of you that way. I

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<v Speaker 2>say that, Yeah, I mean I say for me, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>never trying to convince anybody. It's like I just don't

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<v Speaker 2>have space in my spirit for that. And I also

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<v Speaker 2>consider when that is happening, there's some level of intellectual

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<v Speaker 2>violence there. If I'm telling you this is how I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I would say what you said, Angela, That's

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<v Speaker 2>all I ever asked to be understood. If you understand

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<v Speaker 2>me and you disagree, we Gucci, it's okay. You don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to agree with me if you have allowed me

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<v Speaker 2>the space, if we've had a healthy exchange of ideas

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<v Speaker 2>and ideology.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm good with that.

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<v Speaker 2>I have an endless, insatiable thirst to learn to understand things.

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<v Speaker 2>That's really all it's ever about for me. If I've

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<v Speaker 2>learned something, I want to share it. When people try

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<v Speaker 2>to convince me of something, I can't lie like, it

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<v Speaker 2>starts to bother me, you know, because it's it's if

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<v Speaker 2>I'm saying now, now, if I'm neutral, and you're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>let me pull you to my side. Maybe, But if

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<v Speaker 2>I've said this is how I feel, and then somebody

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<v Speaker 2>else is trying to say no, like this is your

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<v Speaker 2>position on this is wrong.

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<v Speaker 4>It's like, Okay, I hear you, but then I've moved on.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what it is, but I don't like

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<v Speaker 2>it like I because you cannot convince me of something

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<v Speaker 2>that I don't believe in, or that I believe to

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<v Speaker 2>be false or I believe to be wrong. Andrew, you

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<v Speaker 2>and I have had conversations where, well, you guys have

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<v Speaker 2>seen Andrew throwshade. But we'll be talking and I'll say, well, Andrew,

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<v Speaker 2>this is my perspective, and I'll go on and on

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<v Speaker 2>and on and on about something. And Andrew is very

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<v Speaker 2>thoughtful He's like, hmmm, how incredibly one dimensional.

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<v Speaker 4>That's like.

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<v Speaker 2>You.

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<v Speaker 4>That's a verbatim quote.

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<v Speaker 5>That is a verbat Jesus Lord, yes today.

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<v Speaker 4>But I don't experience you trying to convince me. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>you're just like, what.

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<v Speaker 5>Do you mean?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think I do. When I understand a person's position,

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<v Speaker 1>like if they like you've stated where you are, I

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<v Speaker 1>think my debating is more in the space where there

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<v Speaker 1>is room for conversion, like oh you, and then if

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<v Speaker 1>there isn't real I will tell you what I've defaulted to,

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<v Speaker 1>which is is it possible that a person could reasonably

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<v Speaker 1>think this? Like is the question I would posit to someone, like,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, so that I can make sure that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not out of space? Is it possible? Is it reasonable

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<v Speaker 1>to conclude that a person might might think this, might

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<v Speaker 1>have a reason to conclude that based off of what

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<v Speaker 1>the interaction has been. And if I can get you

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<v Speaker 1>to say yeah, I think that's possible without without cutting

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<v Speaker 1>me in the next verse, then I'm like, Okay, that's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Then we can sit there. But if I'm still looking

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<v Speaker 1>at you and you're looking at me like I'm an

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<v Speaker 1>out of spacer, like okay, it just doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 1>logical landing for me. Then that becomes hard because I

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<v Speaker 1>keep going until like, it seems like it's logical that

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<v Speaker 1>a person could conclude that. But if you think that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm hearing out of space and that there's no reason

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<v Speaker 1>for me to have arrived at what I've arrived at

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<v Speaker 1>by way of conclusion, then you you out of space.

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<v Speaker 5>Well here's my question.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you guys think this is one place where I

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<v Speaker 3>feel like we've run up against this ideology, like as

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<v Speaker 3>a bump, as a point of tension for us. Often

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<v Speaker 3>on the pod there are moments where I feel like

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<v Speaker 3>Tiff is like, well, I don't know why they're going

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<v Speaker 3>to get the undecided voters like these people and if

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<v Speaker 3>they still don't decide that they have decided, And I'm like, ish,

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<v Speaker 3>how we gonna win an election if she don't convince

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<v Speaker 3>somebody these undecideds. So I think one of the places

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<v Speaker 3>where I see that made manifest the most is when

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<v Speaker 3>we're having the conversation about how they grow a base

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<v Speaker 3>or convince an electorate that this is the right side

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<v Speaker 3>of the issue, because if you don't grow your position,

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<v Speaker 3>there's only so many votes you can count. That's limited,

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<v Speaker 3>So then what do you do if you're not convincing

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<v Speaker 3>anybody to come along with you.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't believe there are that many undecided voters, so

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<v Speaker 2>I think we're already in disagreement at the premise of it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think if you're undecided at this point, you're giving

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<v Speaker 2>yourself permission to vote for Trump or you're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>find a reason to vote for Vice President Harris. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think the reason why those things exist are rooted

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<v Speaker 2>in racism and misogyny every single pannel I've seen, and

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<v Speaker 2>I personally don't know how, and nor am I interested

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<v Speaker 2>in meeting a bigot in the middle or trying to

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<v Speaker 2>convince a bigot anything about me my humanity. That's democracy.

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<v Speaker 2>This election, I have found it to be an exercise

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<v Speaker 2>in futility.

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<v Speaker 5>Now.

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<v Speaker 4>There was a version of me who likes to debate.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, when I first

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<v Speaker 2>started on television, I used to engage in these debates.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'll tell you I don't have the energy for

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<v Speaker 4>it anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just not it's not worth my time to be like,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe somebody else can do it, but I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to do that. I don't even like preaching to the choir.

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<v Speaker 2>You know a lot of the times we're talking our audience,

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<v Speaker 2>they know a lot of the things we're saying right now.

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<v Speaker 1>I think this is so emblematic. I think this is

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<v Speaker 1>so us. I think it's so true. Everything Tiffany is

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<v Speaker 1>saying is predictable as.

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<v Speaker 5>Far as he doesn't mean it that way.

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<v Speaker 1>He just means as.

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<v Speaker 3>The one person here who's run for office, and we

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<v Speaker 3>know this is actually where this surface is for us.

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<v Speaker 3>I think most often because I'm like tiff you cannot

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<v Speaker 3>win an election.

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<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, like convincing Angela, you try to convince for sure, So.

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<v Speaker 5>As the resident run for what, like, how do you

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<v Speaker 5>grow a base if you're not convincing nobody?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, part of it. We have to suspend with our

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<v Speaker 1>own beliefs about some things in order to grow a base,

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<v Speaker 1>because if we approach every person with the assumptions around

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<v Speaker 1>why it is they are where they are on this thing,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no hope with it. And so even though I

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes enter a conversation with a strong belief about where

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<v Speaker 1>I think somebody might land, I have to be willing

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<v Speaker 1>at some level to say, you know what, with words

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<v Speaker 1>that come out of their mouth. Some of it has

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<v Speaker 1>to be believable, like at some point something in them

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<v Speaker 1>is still telling them like, I'm on fenced about this,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe there is a if you're on fence about it,

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<v Speaker 1>then there has to be a way off the fence.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I present to you a picture that lets you

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<v Speaker 1>off the fence? And I think for most people, away

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<v Speaker 1>off the fence is by not making me feel stupid,

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<v Speaker 1>not making me feel like I am problematic because I

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<v Speaker 1>was on the fence to begin with. But even if

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<v Speaker 1>I felt that at some level, even if I felt

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<v Speaker 1>that that, I've got to give them a ramp off,

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<v Speaker 1>because nobody wants to be humiliated, and nobody wants to

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<v Speaker 1>be browbeat to the position that they're in. They want

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<v Speaker 1>to get there or they want to feel like they

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<v Speaker 1>have gotten there through their own sovereignty. That that I

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<v Speaker 1>own me and I own the way I get to decide,

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<v Speaker 1>and that takes a little bit more patience, and it

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<v Speaker 1>requires the suspension of our own beliefs sometimes.

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<v Speaker 3>And judgment probably suspended Jack, I got judgment and frustrated now.

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<v Speaker 3>I think when it comes to local different primaries, but

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<v Speaker 3>when it comes to this election, I have all the

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<v Speaker 3>things you said we shouldn't have for undecided voters. If

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<v Speaker 3>you on the fence about in this election, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>have the patience, the time to desire none of that.

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<v Speaker 3>Somebody else. That's somebody else.

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<v Speaker 1>And they're honestly, you've gotten there. Honestly, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>us have gotten there. Honestly, it's because we've watched these

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<v Speaker 1>people turn themselves into pretzels trying to be undecided when

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, we know what this is at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the day. And I guess the part I'm saying

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<v Speaker 1>is that even if I feel like I know where

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<v Speaker 1>this is at the end of the day, I may

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<v Speaker 1>not tell you that I think think that you're an

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<v Speaker 1>unwinnable and hopeless case. We're gonna give you a way

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<v Speaker 1>off at some level, and I hope you take it.

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<v Speaker 3>I like everything you said until the end because to

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<v Speaker 3>me it felt like there there was something about it

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<v Speaker 3>that if I feel like I can't convince then I

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<v Speaker 3>have lost hope. I'm not talking about somebody that's just

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<v Speaker 3>like you talked about pretzels. I hate pretzels. You're not

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<v Speaker 3>gonna convince me to like pretzels. There's uh, it's pointless. Exactly,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, but like, but that's a completely different thing

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<v Speaker 3>than you know, someone who's like, well, I just don't

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<v Speaker 3>understand why I gotta pay reparations if I didn't do

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<v Speaker 3>the thing right. I think that I can't convince you.

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<v Speaker 5>You don't know what I'm gonna say.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I just wanted you to say. I was

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<v Speaker 1>responding to this moment, which was these Trump voter you

0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:51.080
<v Speaker 1>know these.

0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.439
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I was gonna get there.

0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.360
<v Speaker 3>I was gonna get there, these that I that maybe

0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.560
<v Speaker 3>you just don't know. So I feel like the convincing

0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.959
<v Speaker 3>is because you need to be educated. And I don't

0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.120
<v Speaker 3>want to do it to your point in a browbeating, judgmental,

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.120
<v Speaker 3>super hypercritical, or the way to humiliate them.

0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.080
<v Speaker 5>But I do want to be like, well, can you

0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:12.080
<v Speaker 5>help me explain this?

0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.600
<v Speaker 3>Like, we did this interview on Breakfast Club with Byron

0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Donald's and he was getting like dragged for this Jim

0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.360
<v Speaker 3>Crow comment he made, which I thought was ridiculous, like

0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:23.760
<v Speaker 3>you wouldn't have been able to marry your wife and

0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.079
<v Speaker 3>Jim Crow right, So but I was like, well, can

0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.320
<v Speaker 3>you explain what you meant?

0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 5>Now?

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.200
<v Speaker 3>He explained it, and I was like, okay, that position

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.680
<v Speaker 3>I actually understand, and part of it I agree with.

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.079
<v Speaker 3>But at the end of the interview he says make

0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:35.920
<v Speaker 3>America great again.

0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:37.840
<v Speaker 5>I was like, so, back to Jim Crow, we go, huh.

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:42.800
<v Speaker 3>We just so he's a idiot, thank you.

0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.640
<v Speaker 5>I I agree with that.

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.040
<v Speaker 3>But to me, I had to go through the exercise

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:52.400
<v Speaker 3>of seeing where your where your logic led you, or

0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.040
<v Speaker 3>maybe it's not your logic, maybe it's you're shorter end

0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.840
<v Speaker 3>of the line, or maybe it's not your shorter than

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.680
<v Speaker 3>the line. Maybe it's your opportunism. I don't know, but

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.360
<v Speaker 3>I want to hear it all out for myself.

0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.679
<v Speaker 2>I was getting wrong with that. I think I've heard

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.040
<v Speaker 2>it all from my example. I think that's that's part

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 2>of the talent. Yeah, pretty much like I grew up

0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 2>in Atlanta. I know how southern white folks think. I

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.000
<v Speaker 2>was born in Ohio. I know how min and western

0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.000
<v Speaker 2>white folks, and I don't have that kind of curiosity.

0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.800
<v Speaker 2>And for self hating black people, I definitely don't have

0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 2>no curiosity.

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.120
<v Speaker 5>We gotta convince some of them were.

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:29.240
<v Speaker 4>On that note, we gotta convince Nick. Let us go

0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 4>a few.

0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Gotta go, all right, I got zero moments left for

0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:34.760
<v Speaker 1>any of this.

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 3>I want to talk about this some more, especially at

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 3>the end of this election. Hopefully the another mem is

0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.520
<v Speaker 3>what we wanted to be and we can talk about

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.080
<v Speaker 3>who she ended up convincing. We can maybe see that

0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 3>in exit pulling data. I love it five seconds from now.

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah hopefully all right.

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Thank you guys for tuning into this mini pod. Be

0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.120
<v Speaker 2>sure to like, leave us a review and tell your

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.800
<v Speaker 2>friends We drop mini pods every Monday. Thanks for tuning in,

0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:05.600
<v Speaker 2>and we'll see you back here next Thursday.

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership

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