1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to step Mom Never Told You from housetop works 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to podcast. This is Molly 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristin Kristen. Today we're going to jump into 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: something pretty controversial. Burkas. They are those veils that are 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: worn primarily by Muslim women. They are sort of full 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: body sheets where you just have sort of mesh screen 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: for the eyes, and they have been in the news 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: a lot lately because of French President Nicholas Sarkoz. Right. 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: He gave his speech in two thousand nine in which 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: he called burkas quote a sign of subjugation, of the 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: submission of women and um he vowed that they would 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: not be welcome in France because the country didn't believe 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: that a woman should be quote in prison or quote 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: deprived of identity. And uh, I believe in France, which has, 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: by the way, the largest Muslim population in Western Europe. Um, 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: a woman was actually denied citizenship uh to France for 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: wearing a veil. Right. They said she hadn't assimilated properly. 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: So this is um the first big instance of a 19 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: of a country with you know, a pretty big Muslim population. 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: It's going to have pretty wide spread effects coming out 21 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: and saying this is you know, bad for women, right, 22 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: just this piece of cloth that covers their eyes. And 23 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: I think this is so controversial because it's kind of 24 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: highlights a big culture culture clash. You know, in the West, 25 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: we tend to think of, you know, the idea of 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: a woman being fully veiled as you know, something very sexist, 27 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: is something possibly like violating her human rights as you know, 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: like sheltering her away from society and not granting women 29 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: equal rights, whereas in um, certain Muslim cultures, it is 30 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: a sign of piety, you know, it's it's a it's 31 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: a outward symbol of their religious devotion. And how dare we, 32 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: you know, put it into law that they can't freely 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: practice their religion, right, I mean what kind of culture 34 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: will we be to say, hey, we have freedom of religion, 35 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: but not where a burkas related? Um. But the problem is, 36 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: uh is it's impossible to separate the burka from terrorism 37 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: because think back to when all those troops went into 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: Afghanistan to take on the Taliban right after nine eleven. 39 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: There were always images on the news of you know, 40 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: when the when the women came out and took off 41 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: their burkas, for the first time. You know, it was 42 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: you know, just the symbol of liberation, of this freedom 43 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: from an oppressive regime. And I remember, actually there was 44 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: a big benefit the Oprah did once where she symbolically 45 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: took off a woman's burka. And so I think that 46 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: because uh, it's so easy to associate uh burkas with terrorism, 47 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: it's going to be a very um, you know, difficult 48 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: conversation we're about to have because we're going to take 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: a step back and see what this piece of cloth 50 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: actually means. And just some feminists this is just you know, 51 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: not even a conversation worth having. It's oppressive, that's the 52 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: end of it. But usually when christ and I hear 53 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: that that's the end of it, we want to go 54 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: a little bit deeper, right, because I cannot think of 55 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: another piece of clothing that is now so steeped in politics, culture, wars, um, 56 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: you know, religious history. So let's try to maybe just 57 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: sift through both sides of this pro and anti burker 58 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: argument and find out why exactly women wear them in 59 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: the first place. Okay, let's start with just some simple vocab, 60 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: because I think that over here we have a tency 61 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: to see any veil or head scarf and called a burka, right, 62 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: But that's wrong, that it's not, that's not what a 63 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: burke is. A burka, like you said earlier, is the 64 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: full body veil um where you can't see the entire 65 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: faces covered up, and you might just have a kind 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: of a mesh screens that you could that you can 67 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: see out of. Now, in other countries you may not 68 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: have the mesh screen, but you would still have sort 69 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: of um almost everything, but you'd have kind of like 70 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: the head covering, the full body cover maybe see like 71 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: the whole face that's um typically called in Saudi Arabia 72 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: and a Baia and it's called a shador and Iran, 73 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: and both of those countries are the two left that 74 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: mandate the women cover themselves on public, but they you know, 75 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: don't have their eyes obstructed in any way. Now, when 76 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: we're speaking just of head coverings, we would be referring 77 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: to a h job, and that's just you know, general 78 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: term for any kind of head scarf. It may or 79 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: may not have a cloak attached to it, like the 80 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: burk up. Now, the controversial add on that you can 81 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: put to the hedjob is called an a cop, and 82 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: that is the face veil. It does leave the eyes 83 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: um open um that that's not no mesh screen. But 84 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: it's very controversial because it's basically everything but eyes. You 85 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: can't see a mouth um. So that's in a cop 86 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: And I thought that it was interesting that an Arabic 87 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: hijab means barrier and partition, but when you put it 88 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: in um an Islamic context, in a religious context, it 89 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: refers directly to their principles of modesty and behavior um 90 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: that they believe that Mohammed was a proponent of. So 91 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: basically had jab means both that covering, that head covering, 92 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: but also just the principle itself. So let's look at 93 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: the verses in the Kuran that basically advocate any hitch up. 94 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: So this information is coming largely from the BBC. Uh 95 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: In the Koran Um we have two major passages that 96 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: refer to women's stress, how a woman should clothe herself, 97 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: and the type of modesty. So I will read the 98 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: first one that comes from chapter thirty three, verse fifty nine, 99 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: and these again our translations from the BBC. It says, 100 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: oh Profit tell their wives and daughters and the believing 101 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons, 102 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: that it is most convenient that they should be known 103 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: as such and not molested. Okay, and I'll read this 104 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: that the one which is chapter twenty four versus thirty 105 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: to thirty one. It starts off, say to the believing 106 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty. 107 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: That will make for greater purity for them. And Allah 108 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: is well acquainted with all they do. And say to 109 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: the believing women that they should lower their gaze and 110 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: guard their modesty. That they should not display their beauty 111 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof. So obviously 112 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: you know women are supposed to uh dress modestly, cover themselves. Yeah, 113 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: and that's not that uncommon. We have the same thing 114 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: in Jewish and Christian traditions as well other major religions. UM. 115 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: But especially in that second um second passage we read 116 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: from chapter twenty four, verse thirty to thirty one. There 117 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: have been um a lot of debate about what different 118 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: parts of it mean, because some scholars say that if 119 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: men should lower their gaze and guard their modesty and 120 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: women should also lower their gays, then you know it 121 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: doesn't mean like why would a man have to look 122 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: away from a woman if she is entirely covered, why 123 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: does she need to wear a burka? And a man 124 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: lower their gates? And then we've just got people stumbling around. Yeah. Um. 125 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: And then we also have um some arguments over the 126 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: phrase except what must ordinarily appear thereof? So some would 127 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: say that the hands in the face um must ordinarily 128 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: appear Therefore they don't need to be their faces don't 129 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: need to be covered, right because you know, if you're 130 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: walking around during your day doing stuff, your hands are 131 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: gonna come out and you're gonna need to see. So 132 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: that's the big divide is you know, how much of 133 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: the face needs to be covered? Yeah, and to these 134 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: these scholars, some kind of just general head covering and 135 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: he job would be necessary, But a new cob or 136 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: burker that covers the whole face wouldn't be necessary. Right, 137 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: But I think it's worth pointing out. You know, we're 138 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: starting this history with with Islam and Muslim passages, but 139 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: they didn't invent burkas. Yeah, I mean, no one really knows, 140 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: Like when the first woman decided, hey, I'm going to 141 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: cover myself completely, but it thought she did because of 142 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: class issues. She was saying, hey, I'm so wealthy that 143 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm just going to cover myself entirely. Yeah, you don't 144 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: need to have your hands free, you don't need to 145 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: have extra mobility in order to do things because you 146 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: are Yeah, you have a more leisurely lives usually lifestyle. 147 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: But it has become very much associated UM with Muslim culture. 148 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: So that's why we're starting here. And you know, like 149 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: we said, the Muslim scholars are pretty divided on how 150 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: much you have to cover UM. But there's and you know, 151 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: there are other passages that were not going to go 152 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: into about UM. You know, the prophets wives are urged 153 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: to keep covered. But then there's another verse that says, 154 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: you know, the prophets wives are different from any other women. 155 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: And there was some evidence, according to the BBC that 156 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: one of the the dictates that UH, that wives would 157 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: be behind a screen was just because Mohammed had this 158 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: guest that wouldn't leave, and so he was just saying like, look, 159 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: my women are behind a screen and you need to go. 160 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,599 Speaker 1: And so it's it's the it's divisive. Imagine that a 161 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: religiou text being divisive among the faithful UM. And the 162 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: BBC also points out that UM, there are only a few, 163 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, references devailing in the headith which you're sayings 164 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: of the prophet Mohammed, and most only refer to um 165 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: something called the Kamar, which is restricted to just to 166 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: head coverings, not to face coverings, and it says that UM, 167 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: the full face covering is never explicitly commanded by Mohammed. Right, 168 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: so if if you can get away with just wearing 169 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: a head scarf, A lot of scholars are saying, and 170 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people in let's say France, I mean 171 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: France is not saying no head scarfs, they're saying no 172 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: full face coverings. So the argument could be made that 173 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: if you know, scholars can't agree that you need to 174 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: fully cover your face, why would you. These people are 175 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: just saying, you know, this is the way we're interpreting 176 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: the text, and it's a sign of extreme piety, and 177 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: you know that's how we're going to do it. But 178 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: there are rules. You don't have to wear it in 179 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: front of basically any male relative, UM, other Muslim women, 180 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: though non Muslim women you should probably wear it in 181 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: front of UM, but there are exceptions you don't have 182 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: to wear. So while in Western culture we might consider 183 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, a woman who chooses to fully veil herself 184 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: as someone who who's just you know, kind of subjugating 185 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: themselves to gender inequality. UM. On the other hand, some 186 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: Muslim women say that they wear the full covering as 187 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: a means actually gain more equality by covering their full 188 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: body out there no longer um an object of uh. 189 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: You know, males like sexual gays, they're not going out 190 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: just to you know, like satisfy another man's lust. It 191 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: reserves their sexual identity for um, their husbands, UM, and 192 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: actually makes them feel more liberated and when they go 193 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: out in public. Right. There was a pretty famous editorial 194 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: by name Naomi Wolf who wrote The Beauty Myth, pretty 195 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: famous book, and she interviewed all these women and said, 196 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, underneath the veil, these women are just madly 197 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: sexually in love with their husbands. And it's just a 198 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: matter of keeping what is private private and what is 199 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: public public, which you know, and in the West, we've 200 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: got people like Britney Spears walking around all these scantily 201 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: clad women and you could say that, you know, being 202 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: almost naked is just as damaging for our society as 203 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: we think being fully clothed is damaging for their society 204 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: um and Nami Will. Naomi Will have got a lot 205 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: of kickback for this because you know, other other people 206 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: would write, well, you know, not wearing a full veil 207 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: got some of these women killed. And you know in 208 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: the Taliban, if you in the days of the Taliban 209 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: and Afghanistan, if you deviated it anyway from the dress code, 210 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, you could be publicly humiliated and punished. So 211 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: it's very hard to separate, you know, people who think 212 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: that the women are forced to wear it from these 213 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: women who are you know, insisting to all these reporters. No, 214 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, we want to wear it because it keeps 215 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: us modest, it keeps you know, equal unequal terms when 216 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: we're just going around the market. I think it's very 217 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: hard to believe that women would choose to wear it, 218 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: although I will say, you know, if you were waking 219 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: up five minutes before you're supposed to leave and you 220 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: don't have time for a shower, days when I wish 221 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: I could wear bail, I'm just saying, well, yeah, I mean, 222 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: like going back to that issue of choice, and I 223 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: think one reason why we find it so perhaps so 224 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: offensive in the West is, uh, you know, in the 225 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: last days of the regime of Sado Mussein. He advocated 226 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: basically dictated that women wear full coverings and was really 227 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: starting to institute more of the UM these religious extremes, 228 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: which is something that Mona Alta Hawe pointed out in 229 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: a New York Times column sort of in response to 230 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: Naomi Wolf's column in the Sydney Morning Herald that was 231 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: sort of advocating UM on behalf of women who wear burkas. 232 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: She was saying that, you know, she says, I'm a Muslim, 233 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: I'm and I'm a feminist and I detest the full 234 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: body veil. It erases women from society, has nothing to 235 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: do with Islam. And she says, you know, I I 236 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: blame UM the growing popularity of the Burgha on the 237 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: success of the ultra conservative Salafi audiology. Basically, it just 238 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: sort of represents these, you know, fringe extremes of Islam 239 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: and UM kind of gets away from the actual heart 240 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: of the religion. But I do I don't know. I 241 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: when I was researching this article that I wrote for 242 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: our site on on veiling, it does seem that there 243 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: is a correlation between countries where women are acquired to 244 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: wear veils and extreme human rights violations. You know, if 245 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: you can't leave your house without a mail, if you 246 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: can't go to school. To me, those are the bigger 247 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: issues than saying, let's get these veils off the women. 248 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that this is sort of what 249 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: we're trying to get to. At the heart of the 250 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: symbolism is it's such a symbol to people that they 251 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: can't imagine. You know, that's got the symbol has got 252 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: to be gone first before they'll get to the fact 253 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: that these women can't leave their homes. Whereas these women 254 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: are saying, yes, come help us, come help us leave 255 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: our homes, but don't worry about what we're wearing. Yeah, 256 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: So I don't know well, And I thought that um 257 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: U that Alta Haawe made an interesting point towards the 258 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: end of the column. Um She was saying that you know, 259 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: she she was in Cairo and she was wearing um 260 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: just the head covering, no veil, and a woman in 261 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: a burka. Uh criticized to her for for not fully 262 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: covering herself up. And she said, and this is a 263 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: quote she says, um I've heard since her arguments made 264 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: for the burke, in which the woman is portrayed as 265 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: a diamond ring or a precious stone that needs to 266 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: be hidden in order to prove her quote unquote worth 267 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: unless we challenge at the burka, and by extension, the 268 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: erasure of women becomes the pinnacle of piety. So if 269 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: men um you know, in the Koran, men are also 270 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: held to, you know, standards of modesty as well, but 271 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: obviously not as drastic at all. So I can see 272 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,479 Speaker 1: her point, where do we really need to um associate 273 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, piety with having to be completely covered from 274 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: society's gays. But then it goes back to the matter 275 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: of choice. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you want 276 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: to exercise your religion and say, okay, I believe that 277 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: to be pious, I need to be fully closed, then 278 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: you know, the fact of the matter is is that 279 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people in the West are uncomfortable with 280 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: this religion in particular. Well, and I think it also 281 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: comes down to an issue of whether or not the 282 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: role that government can play um in in dictating how 283 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: we dress and how we practice our religion. I mean, 284 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: is it as wrong for Sodomussein to essentially dictate that 285 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: women be fully covered whenever we whenever they leave the house, 286 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: and for Nicholas Sarkozy to say women cannot be fully 287 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: covered when they go out and to society. I mean, 288 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: is one you know, well, I don't want to start 289 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: getting into I want to start getting into the debate 290 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: of whether one is worse than the other. But but 291 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: it it has a little bit of the smell of hypocrisy. 292 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: Let's say that. So I think in that comparison, Sarkozy 293 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: gets a bit of a past just because you know, 294 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: his stance probably fulfills more of what we think is correct. 295 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: You know, we have ideals where we don't have to 296 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: cover ourselves, where we don't think that extreme piety is 297 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: demonstrated by a full veil um, and where we you know, 298 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: we probably do think that if you know, someone came 299 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: up to us and it's like you're gonna wear the 300 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: sheet around, we'd be like, oh no, I'm not so 301 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: it fulfills our ideal, are our ideals? But um, you know, 302 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: it's just who, like you said, who can dictate that. Yeah, 303 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: And I think it's become, you know, just such a 304 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: challenging debate too, because it's such a loaded symbol at 305 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: this point. Um, because we now associate the image, you know, 306 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: of a woman in a full burka um with you know, 307 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: these very fringe kind of terrorists Islamic you know, all 308 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: of these really negative things, whereas you know, a woman 309 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: is simply practicing, you know, doesn't mean that she embraces 310 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: any of these like negative ideals. She's just trying to um, 311 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, possibly uh portray her religious devotion right um. 312 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: But whether or not she's being forced to do so 313 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: or not is also another question we have to answer. So, right, 314 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: the woman who didn't get um French citizenship because she 315 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't remove her veil. There were numerous articles I read 316 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: about how you know, they would go to her house 317 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: and she'd say, you know, I just this is what 318 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 1: I want to do. I don't defer to my husband, 319 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: UM in private life. You know, he would never restrict 320 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: me from leaving the home. UM. And one of the 321 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: things they used to kind of you know, they were 322 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: going through making this checklist of how well she's assimilated, 323 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: and it was kind of demeaning. One of the things 324 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: they put in her file was like, oh, she's willing 325 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: to see a male gynecologist and that was somehow a 326 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: sign that you know, she was enlightened enough to be considered, 327 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, she wouldn't take off, 328 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, this piece of clothing. I mean, you know, 329 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: Christians over history are not free of you know not. 330 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: I mean Christians over history have committed some you know, 331 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: pretty heinous acs, right, I mean, but no one's saying, 332 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: you know, if you're wearing a cross, then you're somehow 333 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: embodying all these um ideals of these people long ago 334 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: who did awful things. The unfortunate fact for these women 335 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: is that you know, Islam and fundamentalists who want to 336 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: to you know, use text to support blowing people up. 337 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: That's happening today. So we're trying to to you know, 338 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: regulate it today. And the thing is, you know, when 339 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: I was researching all of this and thinking about, um, 340 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: what we were going to say today, Uh, the episode 341 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: that we did on female circumcision came to mind because 342 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: I think it's you know, I mean, it's it's such 343 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: a testy debate as well, because you go into you know, 344 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: whether or not you are imposing you know, your Western 345 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: standards on other people. Whether it should just come down 346 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: to basic human rights. Is is a human rights issue, 347 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: you know, something that just should be completely banned and 348 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: liberate women from it isn't just an issue of choice, 349 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's I think that's also why, you know, 350 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: we aren't here to say yes or no, one way 351 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: or the other, whether or not women should wear Burker's, 352 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: but just sort of sort out where this debate came 353 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: from in the first place, and why why the the 354 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: clothing even exists and uh, and this debate, this sort 355 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: of legal debate has has reached the US um As 356 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: of January one, students at the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy 357 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: and Health Sciences UH will not be allowed to wear 358 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: a quote, any head covering that obscures a student's face 359 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: for reasons of safety and security. And obviously that means 360 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: that uh, you know, a Muslim female would not be 361 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: allowed to wear a burka, either on campus or off 362 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: campus for internships or clinical rotations. And there's been a 363 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: lot of debate as to whether or not that's you know, 364 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: violating any sort of rights that they have right now, 365 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: so they couldn't wear the nicab because I do think 366 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: that people see a distinction between the two. I mean, 367 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: there's there's definitely a big difference when you can look 368 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: someone in the eye, which is actually an argument that um, 369 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: a writer named and apple Bomb made for Slate, was that, 370 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you are in the West, you should 371 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: go by sort of the standards of local politeness for 372 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: lack of a better term. You know, if we go 373 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: overseas to like a temple or a church, you have 374 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: to you know, you can't wear shorts, you have to 375 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: cover your arms, like let's say, if you go into St. 376 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: Peter's in Rome. So just by virtue of them being 377 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: in the West, these women should you know, obey standards 378 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: of politeness. And if you're in class, I could see 379 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: being in class and maybe your teacher couldn't hear you 380 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: if you're covered behind a veil. But like Kristen said, 381 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: we're not going to try and go pro con either side. 382 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: We've looked at, you know, a few sides of this. UM. 383 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: It's it's a gonna be impossible to sess out. It's 384 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: impossible to say whether sarcos is doing a good thing, 385 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: a liberating thing, or if it's you know, just making 386 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: a problem worse. But I do think one thing that 387 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: we can that we can say openly is that being 388 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: legally forced to cover yourself up when you leave the 389 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: house you know, or putting your being at risk for 390 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: being uh attacked or murdered if you are not fully 391 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: covered up is not right. You know, it's that is 392 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, total uh that is a human rights violation 393 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: and that does promote gender inequity, and that is something 394 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: that women should not be subjected to. I think that 395 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: we can say that. I think we get into a 396 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: little trickier territory with the issue of choice. If in 397 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, a country like France where you can wear 398 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: whatever you want, you can wear you know, a bikini 399 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: out or a burka um and not risk getting you know, arrested. Um, 400 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: I think you get into trickier territory when you say 401 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: you legally have to you know, take it off right, 402 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: and you know, I think that's the problem that a 403 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: lot of people in the West, how as they assume 404 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: that everyone who wears one must have been forced to. 405 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: And so I hope that with this podcast, just a 406 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: slight that we've we've may be shown why women would 407 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: want to wear it um without being legally obligated to 408 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: do so. It's still such a tricky to such a 409 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: tricky thing. But I mean, then again, you think about 410 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: things like makeup and think about the arguments that you know, 411 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: feminist in the United States get into over you know, 412 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: what's what you can wear and what you can't wear. 413 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: It's women's clothing, I think is always going to be 414 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: a tricky subject. We should just go go to nudity, 415 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: bandage code to nudity. Let's just go back to get 416 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: back to nature. Garden of Eden might all right, well, 417 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: let us know what you guys think um burkas pro 418 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: con experiences with them. Yeah, what you think with us? 419 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: Your thoughts in this very controversial issue. And in the meantime, 420 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: let's read some emails. So I got an email here 421 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: from Tamara. She said, just listen to the placenta podcast 422 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,239 Speaker 1: and wondering why cord blood donation wasn't mentioned. Even though 423 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: I would never consider something like a placenta phagi or 424 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: using my placentam to make a teddy bear, I did 425 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: feel somewhat thankful to it for helping to get my 426 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: son here safe and sound. A friend had told me 427 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: about cord blood banking, which involves removing the stem cell 428 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: rich blood from the umbilical cord and placenta and cryogenically 429 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: preserving it for later use. After doing some research, I 430 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: found that the cost of storing the blood to be prohibitive, 431 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: but it did come across information about donating it. After 432 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: my baby's birth, a nurse came to the o R 433 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: to collect the cord blood and I got to see 434 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: the placenta and thank it for all of its hard work. 435 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: My son's cord blood was donated to the American Red 436 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: Cross and maybe used for research or to treat and 437 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: cure people with anemia, leukemia, and other blood and bone cancers. 438 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: Very cool, awesome. Wisha through a podcast us about corpolo donation. Yes, 439 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: stay tuned, I'm gonna read another one about that podcast 440 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: from Emily through Rites. Nearly thirteen years ago, my little 441 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: brother was born. During my mother's pregnancy with him, she 442 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: had decided that she would keep the placenta and, like 443 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: mentioned in the podcast, barre under a tree from my brother, 444 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: even though we were not Hawaiian. I guess she just 445 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: never got around to burying it, because the placenta is 446 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: still sitting in our freezer in a plastic Chapman's chocolate 447 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: ice cream container. This never really struck me as odd 448 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: as it has been there for most of my childhood, 449 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: and from time to time we even pull it out 450 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: to look at. But considering my placenta, like most others 451 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: in the Western world, was disposed of his medical waste, 452 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: I guess it is a little weird. Weird or not, 453 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: I think it is kind of cool to be able 454 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: to take it out of the freezer and poke at 455 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: it with a spoon, even if we never got around 456 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: to burying it, which is likely. And I have to say, 457 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: Emily invited us to Canada, Kristen to come over and 458 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: look at the placenta, and assumedly we can poke it 459 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: with a spoon too. Well, that might be the most 460 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: unique invitation I've ever received. Thank you, Emily, Yes, thank 461 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: you for telling us about the frozen placenta that was 462 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: the subject client the email. I loved it. And now 463 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: whatever I think if Canada, I'm going to think of 464 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 1: placentas in a freezer and you're gonna have hard time 465 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: with the Olympics coming up. But if you guys have 466 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: got emails, um or invitations to Canada to throw out, 467 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: just email us. It's mom stuff at how stuff works 468 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: dot com. You can check our blog how to stuff. 469 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: I think at one point while you wrote a blog 470 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: about things to do with your placenta too. I did. 471 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 1: If you want a little recap, I kind of went 472 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: crazy with the placenta research. In fact, I saw my 473 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: little baby cousins the other day and started asking her 474 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: about her placenta. We love it. She's four months old. 475 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: I digress. There's a blog called how to stuff, and 476 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: there is a place center entry if you're interested. And 477 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: we've got an article on burkas at our site. It's 478 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: called um, why do you Some cultures require women to 479 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: wear veils? And it is at how stuff works dot com. 480 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 481 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. Want more house stuff works, 482 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot 483 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: com home page