WEBVTT - Illegal Immigration Crackdown & Hunter Biden Trial 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:08.320 You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:14.280 Today, I'm announcing actions to bar migrants who cross our 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.000 southern border unlawfully from receiving astylum. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.200 President Joe Biden unveiled plans to head off a surgeon 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:27.120 border crossings this summer by executive action, his most significant 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.880 action to address the migrant crisis that has threatened his reelection. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.760 Biden said Republicans left him no choice but to act alone. 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:41.400 The long anticipated presidential proclamation would bar migrants from being 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.760 granted asylum when illegal border crossings reach high levels. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.720 To protect America as a land that welcomes immigrants, we 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:53.640 must first secure the border and secure it now. The 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:58.760 simple truth is there is a worldwide migrant crisis, and 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.480 if the United States doesn't see QR border, there's no 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.720 limit to the number of people may try to come here, 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.680 because there's no better place than the planet than the 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.120 United States of America. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.920 The ACLU has already said it will challenge Biden's action 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.560 in court, much as it did Trump's actions on the border. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.160 Joining me is Leon Fresco, a partner at Holland and Knight. 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.080 He was the head of the Office of Immigration Litigation 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.720 at the Justice Department during the Obama administration. Leon tell 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.280 us about this new policy. 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:35.480 The policy is that starting now, if anyone tries to 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.000 cross the border illegally in between the ports of injury 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.840 and ask for asylum, they will be banned from doing 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.640 it unless they were a victim of human trafficking or 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.640 had some sort of urgent medical or humanitarian issue that 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.600 was immediately evident to the border patrol officials who apprehended 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.440 the person. There is a trigger that's being put in 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.880 by executive order that's using the travel ban authority under 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.640 Section two twelve f of the Immigration Code, which President 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.920 Trump used many times during his presidency, And what they're 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.280 saying is that if there's ever a situation where more 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.760 than twenty five hundred people per day on average are 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.480 crossing over any given week, that gives them the authority 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:24.080 to trigger this ban procedure until such time as the 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:28.000 daily crossings go down to fifteen hundred people a week, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.720 which the last time that's happened was during COVID where 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.800 nobody was traveling anywhere, and at the moment, because we 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.240 have something around thirty five hundred to four thousand crossings 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.160 per day that exceeds the twenty five hundred person threshold, 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.120 which is why at midnight on June fifth, the border 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.560 will shut down and essentially people asking for asylum who 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.920 are crossing the border will not be allowed to do 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:54.840 that any longer. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.880 Are they allowed to apply for asylum at the port 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:00.760 of entry. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.640 So here is how this works with regard to the 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.960 ports of entry. There are appointments on an app on 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.440 your phone called CBP one, and there are about fifteen 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.640 hundred of those appointments every day, and so if you 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.320 look at that, that you know six hundred thousand or 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.680 five hundred thousand appointments a year. And what that does 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.200 is if you want to get one of those appointments 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:27.000 and apply for asylum, those will still be available and 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.440 people will still be allowed to do that because that's 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.520 an orderly process and one people can use without creating 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.600 chaos on the border. As opposed to they will not 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.720 be able to take matters into their own hands and 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.880 cross in between the ports of entry and ask for asylum. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.880 They will be, according to this executive order, returned back, 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.400 which was the same thing that was being done with 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.840 COVID under the title forty two COVID authority. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.400 He's tapping executive powers outlined in section two twelve F 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.040 of the Immigration and National Act. And that's the same 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.400 law that former President Trump used in the Muslim ban 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:10.920 of twenty seventeen and the twenty eighteen suspension of entry 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.000 of migrants between the ports of entry. Explain what that 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:15.600 law does so. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.520 Years where this is going to get a little complicated, June, 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.320 and I want you and your listener to try to 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:23.920 stay with me here because it will all make sense 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:28.320 in a second. The statute, all it says is that 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.960 the President, if the President thinks it's not in the 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.400 national interests of the United States, may ban the entry 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.359 of any category of non citizens that the President deans 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.120 is not in the national interests of the United States 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:46.680 to let them enter. So that is simple when the 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.960 foreign national is outside the United States. So suppose you're 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.800 at a US embassy in India and you're applying for 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.880 a visa. If there's a ban on Indian immigration that 0:04:55.960 --> 0:05:00.440 the President put in onna section two twelve F, simple 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.159 no visa can be issued. Or if you're at an 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.839 airport in Canada you're trying to fly to the United 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.719 States and there's a ban on flying from Canada to 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.560 the United States because we've banned Canadian from coming in. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.080 That's a very easy band to enact too. Where it 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:22.000 gets complicated is when someone has already crossed the border, 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.600 the southern border, and has already entered the United States. 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.640 Because then this is a very important word entry. This 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.120 becomes a complicated issue because when you enter the United 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.960 States illegally, that's what makes you subject to prosecution for 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.800 illegal entry. Or if you get supported and you come 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.919 back in, that's what makes you subject to prosecution for 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.240 illegal re entry. You have to have an entry. It's 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.040 an element of the crime in order to be subject 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.960 to the crime. Here's where this is problematic. Biden is 0:05:56.000 --> 0:06:00.599 saying that this power to restrict entry all also apply 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.719 to people who've already entered. And that's what's going to 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.040 be the debate in the courts is whether that's true 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.520 or not, because there's a very strong argument that if 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.400 Congress had meant that, it would have said that. But 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.880 it's said. What Congress provided was for the expedited Removal Authority, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.880 which is where someone can come in and the government 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:25.159 can deport them immediately unless they apply for asylum and 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.360 in that case, when they apply for asylum, they get 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:34.479 to stay. And so that's the complication here is will 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:40.000 the Supreme Court ultimately give leeway to the Biden administration 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:44.799 to say that, yes, for this purpose, an entry doesn't 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.799 count as an entry. If we taught you ten minutes 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.320 after you entered, we will pretend that you still didn't enter. 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.240 But if that's true, then does that eliminate, by the 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.480 same token, the federal government's ability to ever prosecute anyone 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.520 again for illegal entry or illegal re entry? Because that's 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.560 why we prosecute people, because we got them ten minutes 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.840 after entering. And so this is quite a very interesting 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.440 thread that I don't know how courts can thread that 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.080 needle and try to have both sides of both of 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:17.120 these arguments. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.080 I knew there was some kind of a complication here 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:26.360 when the ACLU successfully led the charge against the Trump 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.480 administration's attempt to block asylum in twenty eighteen. Was that the. 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.240 Argument, Yes, that was the exact argument, which is that 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.280 the asylum statues specifically says it doesn't matter how you 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.720 enter legally, illegally, anything else, it doesn't matter. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.360 You can still apply for asylum. Now that is in 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.840 conflict with another statue, which says that the government can 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:53.360 add regulatory reasons why you don't get asylum, and so 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.720 they can add this one. Presumably you know that the 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.400 border crossings are too high, and so this is a 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.120 regulatory reason why you don't get a asylum. But the 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.160 problem is that only operates for not giving you asylum. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.120 There are still two other reliefs that still allow you 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.440 to stay, because the thing with the asylum is that 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.520 gives you a path to citizenship. But there's two other 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.600 kinds of relief you can apply for which still come 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:21.480 up to work and prevent deportation. One is withholding of removal, 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.600 which just lets you stay while whatever problem in your 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.880 country exists, but doesn't let you stay permanently. And another 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.640 one is relief under the Convention against Torture, which says, 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.120 even if you're not being persecuted, if you're going to 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.760 get tortured, we won't let you go back against tortured. So, 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.960 for instance, a lot of Russian immigrants get this kind 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.280 of relief because if they show that they're going to 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.800 be imprisoned in Russia, the prison conditions in Russia are 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.120 our tent amounts to torture, as has been documented in 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.880 the the Bounty case, the Britney Grinder case than others. 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.920 And so what ends up happening is people can apply 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.520 for those reliefs and gum up the works. And so 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.960 what Biden is trying to say is no, no, no, this 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.760 executive order means you can't apply for anything. We're trying 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.760 to do exactly what COVID did. That lets you pick 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:15.280 people out. And the question is will this entry be 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:19.280 considered a fiction or not? And if it's considered a fiction, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.000 then maybe the Supreme Court let's Biden get away with this, 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:27.440 But most probably if entry is treated like the way 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.000 it's treated in plain English, then the people have already entered. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.400 It's too late to ban them from coming in once 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:34.439 they've already entered. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.720 To affirm Biden's policy, would the Supreme Court have to 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.840 reverse how it ruled with Trump's policy. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.840 Well, no, because Trump's policy with regard to the travel 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.400 ban was about who could be given travel bans. Could 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.200 you discriminate quote unquote on the basis of religion, or 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.240 was religion of prefects or all of that, And there 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.920 the Supreme Court said, look, as long as the reason 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.640 on his face is legitimate and bonified. We're not gonna 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.319 second guess and go behind that and say what did 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:10.000 the president really mean, etc. Now, there was an actual 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.240 travel band that said all Muslims are banned from the 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.560 United States. Come back to us with that case. We're 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.959 not deciding that case today because this case is about 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.960 objective factors of safety insecurity, and so the president gets 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.920 broad discretion to do that. That's going to be different 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:31.880 than this case, which will be about whether an entry 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.080 is involved in a case where a person is already 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.160 inside the United States. So Trump was about can you 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.400 ban people outside the United States? This is now going 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.120 to be about can you pretend that someone who just 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.880 entered minutes ago didn't really enter such that you can 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.840 kick them out like if they were applying in India 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:52.480 for a visa. 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.920 Did the Trump case where he suspended the entry of 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.640 migrants between the ports of entry, did that go to 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:00.480 the court? 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.960 That did not because by the time what happened was, 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.080 first the Northern District of California struck that down and 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.480 said you can't have this kind of ban. Then the 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.120 Ninth Circuit agreed, Then COVID happened, and then by the 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.960 time this would have gotten around to any kind of 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:20.160 Supreme Court review the administration's change and the policy change, 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.120 and that was the end of it. So we never 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.360 got to see the actual final work. We know the 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.600 Ninth Circuit as finding president on this, So the Ninth 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:33.160 Circuit would actually have to go unbond and reverse itself, 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:38.240 which is very unlikely if they're going to overrule this 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.200 precedent on the issue of entry and asylum. So the 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.840 only hope that the Biden administration is going to have 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.160 is to go to the Supreme Court. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.000 Stay with me Leon coming up, we're going to discuss 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.199 what happens next in the courts and why there may 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:58.199 be an injunction against this action before the weekend. I'm 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.280 June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomber. Today, President Joe 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:07.320 Biden unveiled plans to enact immediate, significant restrictions on migrants 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.120 seeking asylum at the US Mexico border as he tries 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.240 to neutralize immigration as a political liability ahead of the 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:20.280 November elections. But the ACLU has already said it intends 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.120 to sue to stop Biden's order, much as it argued 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:28.560 similar legal challenges against former President Donald Trump. I've been 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.840 talking to immigration law expert Leon Fresco, a partner at 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.120 Hollanda Knight Lee on before the break. We were discussing 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.800 the word entry and how that will be important in 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.360 the legal arguments to come. So this is going to 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.200 be a very technical argument for Biden to win. Is 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.000 it going to be the Supreme Court justices or at 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:54.000 least five of them saying wink, wink, nod, nod, it's okay. 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.480 Correct, He's gonna need that. And then there's a second 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.520 rinkle we haven't even talked about yet. Then going to 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:05.480 need the cooperation of the Mexican government to repatriate people 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.760 who are not Mexicans into Mexico, which the Mexican government 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.280 has no obligation to do. They're doing it right now 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.320 as a favor to Americans at a rate of thirty 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.240 thousand per month, But this would require much more than that. 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.120 Remember we're talking about at the moment four thousand people 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.000 per day. So we do some amateur mathematics here, we're 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.480 talking about one hundred and twenty thousand people per month. 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.960 Is the Mexican government, especially after this election, likely to 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.240 do that? So we have two big issues. Number one 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.679 that there's going to be an immediate injunction that is 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.520 a one hundred percent thirty on this Biden policy. I 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.520 mean that injunction might be issued by the end of 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.440 this week. And then the second question is after that 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.640 injunction is issued, if it ever gets listed by the 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.960 Supreme Court, Well, does the Mexican government allow you to 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:55.000 actually implement this? 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.560 Yeah, Biden mentioned the Mexican government in his in his 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:03.520 statement indicating that they will cooperate, but who knows. You 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:08.959 have a new president now. Administration officials said that individuals 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.160 will be removed to their country of origin in a 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.240 matter of days, if not hours. Does the Biden administration 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.160 have enough resources to quickly expel them? 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.760 So the answer to that question is going to be 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.920 it depends what country the person is from. For instance, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.600 if they're from Venezuela, Venezuela is not accepting people who're 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.000 trying to deport, and Cuba is not really accepting people 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.120 we're trying to deport, and eighty has some very difficult 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.200 conditions right now, so it's difficult to support people in 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.560 large scale and so you start adding all of those up, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.360 and you start getting significant chunks of people that you 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.400 cannot deport very quickly. China is another one. You can't 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.960 really deport people to China. What are you going to 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:51.800 be doing with all of those people who are crossing 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.600 the border. Nothing really is going to be changing there 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.880 other than unless Mexico lets you bring them back into Mexico. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.520 But then they become Mexico's problem, and then the question is, well, 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.320 how long is Mexico willing to deal with such a 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:09.800 surge of people inside of Mexico. So that's the complication here. 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.000 But at the end of the day, that's where we're at. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:18.040 Lea take us through what actually will happen when these 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.320 migrants are stopped. I mean, it's not just turn them 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.160 around and have them go back. They'll have to be processed. 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.000 Right, So it will depend what happens. Is if it'll 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.880 be a Mexican person, that will be very simple. The 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.600 Mexican person will come, they will be immediately banned, they 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.640 will be sent back into Mexico. That one's very simple. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.720 Perhaps for some of the Central American migrants, that also 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:46.320 will happen. They will be immediately apprehended, they will be detained, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.760 and they will be sent back into Mexico. They probably 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.800 won't be flown back to Central America, but sometimes that's 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.280 possible too, And so in those scenarios, if a flight 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.120 can be arranged and it's quick enough, they would also 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.440 be flown into Central America. For the others, this gets 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.400 more complicated because if Mexico doesn't let you bring them 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.760 into Mexico, then they will have to be detained. Because 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.600 if they're not detained, you'll never get them back. It'll 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.400 be impossible because they'll just be released for some future 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.960 immigration hearing. So you'll have to keep them detained. And 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.840 the question is do you have the sufficient detention resources 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.800 to be able to keep them detained while you're trying 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.920 to arrange for sometimes they don't have passports, and if 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.600 they don't have passports, you need their home country to 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.640 issue it in order to get them flown back or 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.560 for whatever arrangements are needed to get them to be 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.360 able to be flown back. But again, in cases where 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.320 you know you're not going to be able to deport people, 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.560 which are Chinese, Cuban, Venezuelan cases, some Haitian cases, some 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.800 Nicaraguan cases, those are going to be very tough. I 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.480 don't see what an executive order can change unless Mexico 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.600 is willing to let you remove those people into Mexico, 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.160 or as Trump starts doing, which the Bidens administration hasn't 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.119 announced yet. Trump was starting to get deals with certain 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.320 countries in Central America to actually deport people into those countries. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:15.640 The initial criticism from immigration advocates and progressives is that 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.760 this is just what Trump did, But the administration has 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.840 said this is not comparable to Trump's system wide crackdowns. 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.600 What do you think It sounds a lot like it. 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.919 It is almost identical to what Trump did, with the 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.800 exception that they made some carveouts for unaccompanied children, which 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:37.000 is required under the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, and also 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:42.200 they made exceptions for people with urgent medical and humanitarian 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.440 claims and victims of human trafficking, whatever that may appear. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.720 Because at the end of the day, all of those 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.800 screenings are going to be done very quickly by someone 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:56.280 who's a border patrol officer who may not necessarily that 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.240 might not be their top priority at the moment. They 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.520 may have a security agenda that they're trying to fulfill, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.199 and so asking if someone's been human traffic may not 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.119 be at the moment's top of mind, and so what 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.679 ends up happening is in its implementation, it ends up 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.080 being almost identical to the Trump band. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:21.359 The numbers of unauthorized crossings have continued to go down 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.880 in recent months from a high in December. 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.680 Correct there were days that we were at twelve thousand 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.679 people crossing per day, and now we're down to around 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.639 four thousand. And if you recall what they were talking 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.240 about the bill in Congress, they were actually talking about 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.240 five thousand crossings per day. So interestingly enough, now the 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.359 crossings are under four thousand, they're between thirty five hundred 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.520 and four thousand, and so the question is why has 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:53.440 the Biden administration decided that twenty five hundred is actually 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.440 the unacceptable number? Because in the legislation that was being 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.160 talked about before, it was actually sci fi, and now 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.199 we're talking about twenty five hundred. And what seems to 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.760 be happening is this number appears to be moving in 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:12.359 order to be able to justify an executive order, so 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.320 that what ends up happening is you can at least 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.639 implement it for now. But I do think the Night 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.400 administration understands because they have very smart lawyers that are 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.320 there that the actual sequence of events of the way 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.159 this is going to play out is they've written the 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.280 executive order. Now it's going to be implemented tonight. It 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.159 will be immediately sued. There will be an immediate injunction, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.840 so the order goes away, and then they try to 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.520 appeal to the Ninth Circuit and the Supreme Court will 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.960 be very interesting to see if they try to take 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.239 a fast track or if they try to take a 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.159 slow track. That will be very indicative of whether this 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.760 was meant to be a political gambit or whether this 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.000 was meant to be a legitimate border operation and procedure. 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.600 If they take the slow road, then we know this 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.520 is all because nothing's gonna happen until the election. If 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.800 they take the fast road, I suppose the Supreme Court 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.080 pen within the next thirty days or so decide whether 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.280 they want to stay an injunction and allow this to 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.400 go into effect. But if that does go into effect, 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.359 then the question is going to be will you be 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.439 able to get those numbers down to the actual twenty 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.240 five hundred level that they're talking about. And we'll have 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.480 to wait and see how that ends up getting implemented. 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.679 And you seem pretty sure that this order won't to 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.520 even make it to the weekend. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.920 Yeah, definitely, by the end of this week, this thing 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.560 is going to be enjoying just because it's binding Ninth 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.960 Circuit presidents already and we. 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:43.960 May be a long way away from that. But I mean, 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.320 what do you think the chances are at the Supreme Court? 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:47.879 It sounds like a technicality. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.080 I think it would be very difficult. It's going to depend, 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.960 I think on how the advocates would argue this. But 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.680 the way I would argue it is this, be very 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.159 careful what you wish for by an administration or or 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.280 Trump administration or anyone else who thinks that you can 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.840 ban people on the border using this statute, Because if 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.520 what you're gonna say is we will not treat people 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.600 whose bodies are inside the United States as people who 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:18.600 have entered the United States, then you will have lost 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.359 your ability to prosecute people for illegal entry. That's gone. 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.080 You can't have it both ways, And so which one 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:28.080 do you prefer. Do you prefer to have a statute 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.600 to let you prosecute people for illegal entry or do 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:36.320 you prefer to have this travel band situation? And that's 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:38.720 what it's gonna come down to but entry either means 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.320 entry or it doesn't mean it. If you're gonna say 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:43.800 entry means, oh, you have to be here a certain 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.199 amount of time, well that would have had to have 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:50.919 been written in the executive order, and that's not written 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.360 in the executive order. So I don't know how they're 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.680 going to distinguish these two things, but I think that's 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.840 going to be where the Court gets hung up and says, 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:01.720 wait a second, I don't think we can do this. 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:07.360 Considering all that, it sounds more like Biden did this 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:08.880 for political reasons. 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.760 Well. I think the timing of it, obviously right after 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:16.439 the Mexican election, shows they were cognizant of that, and 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.600 I think they did feel they needed to have something 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.080 to speak about because they were being asked every day 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.600 in the press room, in the White House news conference 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.480 as well. I understand you keep blaming the Congress, but 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.879 what has the Biden administration done? And they said, we 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:36.280 can't do anything more? It's illegal, and that people say, well, 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:38.960 why don't you try prove it? And so they have 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.920 now succumbed to this argument and they're saying, okay, well 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:45.400 you claim that we haven't tried. Well, now, we've tried, 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:47.960 let's see what happened, and I think this is what's 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:48.600 happened here. 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:53.240 During his statement, Biden mentioned something that we've discussed before, 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:57.560 which is the hope that migrants will start to know 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.600 that they're going to be removed quickly and not be 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:03.639 able to stay in the US for years through their 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:07.359 immigration court process, and they perhaps just won't. 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:08.520