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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: start taking control of your personal data today. Trust me,

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly working on this for years myself, and here's

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for you to take matters into your own

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Speaker 1: hands as well. So a few months, a few weeks back,

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time talking to you guys

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Speaker 1: here in these and in fact I did a subsetecon

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Speaker 1: about this that I said, you know, at the age

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Speaker 1: of a warm is coming, and the question was just

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Speaker 1: sort of when it would begin, And I used the

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Speaker 1: bipartisan endorsement. The first Republican to endorse my next guest bill,

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Speaker 1: a constitutional amendment that he is proposing. It's a Democratic

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Speaker 1: Congressman Johnny Oldchesky from Baltimore, and it was Don Bacon

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Speaker 1: became the first Republican to sign on. And it's essentially

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Speaker 1: a pardon nullification constitutional amendment. It uses in some ways

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Speaker 1: the same structure of a congressional override of a presidential veto.

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Speaker 1: It's very similar in its structure. But it was I

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Speaker 1: saw it as an opportunity because this was done in

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Speaker 1: such a way that it didn't feel specifically targeted to

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Speaker 1: one president. We know we've had abuses of the pardon power,

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Speaker 1: but by both this one and the previous one, and

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Speaker 1: you could argue multiple presidents going forward, going backward. And

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Speaker 1: there's some argue the that the pardon clause in our

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Speaker 1: constitution is the biggest you might say, loophole there is

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Speaker 1: between a small D democracy and a small A authoritarian

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Speaker 1: UH regime. And so with that, I thought it would

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Speaker 1: be nice to hear from the author of this amendment himself,

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Speaker 1: Congressman Johnny Oh. He says, we can call him Johnny Oh.

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Speaker 1: We'll find out if I'm going to have to start

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Speaker 1: having a you know, use the code. My my friend

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Speaker 1: Tony Kornheiser, Congressman, loves Johnny O Polo shirts and they

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Speaker 1: advertise on his So maybe at this point people will

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Speaker 1: think it's you advertising.

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Speaker 2: It's the number one gift I get when I talk

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Speaker 2: to Chambers of congresces, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the has You know they have that third

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Speaker 1: button right that that's what what's what guys like. It's

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Speaker 1: like that it's a three button polo rather than sometimes

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Speaker 1: the two button polo. So there is something about you know,

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: A nice print, a nice constitutional amendment.

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Speaker 1: Here. There you go. It's a mighty fine constitution you have.

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Speaker 1: There be ashamed, mighty find republican. There be shame if

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Speaker 1: we lose it. All right, Look, I want to bring

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Speaker 1: you on on this, but look we'll talk. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk a lot about sort of how to make

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Speaker 1: congressman Congress functional again. But this is an important step

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Speaker 1: because constitutional You know, I am one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I'm long term optimistic, even if I'm short term pessimistic

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Speaker 1: about the direction of our republic is that when we've

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Speaker 1: had moments like this before we've used the tools in

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Speaker 1: our toolbox. We haven't done it very often. We need

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Speaker 1: to use them more, but we don't. We're in and

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Speaker 1: around the Civil War, we did in and around Teddy

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt throughout the r we did, and I think we're

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Speaker 1: in one of those periods again. And you update your constitutions,

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Speaker 1: and the same reason why you put a new roof

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Speaker 1: on your house, you know it. Sometimes you know you realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of an old structure that's going to have leaks.

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Speaker 1: We kind of need to put new technology in here.

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Speaker 1: And so the updating of the constitution I think is necessary.

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Speaker 1: But I'm curious where are we Do you have more

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Speaker 1: than Don Bacon on board the parton amendment? And since

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Speaker 1: I've been on here, am I missing a piece of

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Speaker 1: the amendment that you think is important for my listeners

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Speaker 1: and viewers to know. I think you pretty much hit it.

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Speaker 2: We have a part of it where the petitioning for

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Speaker 2: review is a pretty narrow approach. Twenty members of the House,

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Speaker 2: five members of the Senate can petition for that vote,

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Speaker 2: and so part of it is just by having the

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Speaker 2: ability to review it, our hope is that presidents will

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Speaker 2: think twice before issuing these egregious pardons. But yeah, it

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Speaker 2: is very much modeled after a veto override, which I

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Speaker 2: thought it was a modest but important step forward to

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Speaker 2: say some of these pardons that really are beyond the pale,

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Speaker 2: especially under this president, are in need of that kind

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Speaker 2: of reform. And so I appreciate Don stepping on and

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Speaker 2: really stepping into this in a moment where we're so polarized.

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Speaker 2: But that's why we structured that way. And I think

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Speaker 2: that as a new member of Congress, having someone who's

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Speaker 2: a veteran who really I think understands the institution and

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Speaker 2: why this is important. We are now actually this week,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be opening up for co sponsors, and

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Speaker 2: so we're hoping to see Democrats and Republicans alike join.

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Speaker 2: I know it's going to be harder because I think

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Speaker 2: people view it as going after President Trump, and in

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Speaker 2: some ways like his have been especially worse in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: But as you as you point out, I think the.

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Speaker 1: Preemptive partons were terrible. I mean, there's really no defending

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Speaker 1: the preemptive partons and what he did. And and I

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Speaker 1: might have empathy for Tony Fauci on a personal level,

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Speaker 1: Lis Chainey in a personal level, there's no doubt there

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Speaker 1: there could be attempts. But what really set me off

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Speaker 1: about those pardons were they where they get out of

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Speaker 1: jail free cards for his family members. That felt like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing to prevent what you think the

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Speaker 1: next president is going to do? You just gave him

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Speaker 1: precedent to do it with his own family m And.

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Speaker 2: I suspect he will and.

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Speaker 1: What will he say when he does it, just like

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Speaker 1: the previous psident.

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Speaker 2: That's right, absolutely, And I think this is part of

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Speaker 2: the larger issue. This is one of many places where

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Speaker 2: I think Americans are so frustrated with all of us

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Speaker 2: because the wealthy and the well connected and those who

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Speaker 2: are in power or are privileged or getting away with

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Speaker 2: you know, literally crimes I don't want to say murder,

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Speaker 2: but like they're getting away with pretty serious crimes. They're

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Speaker 2: lining their pockets, and everybody else is getting crushed. And

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Speaker 2: so I think it's pastime, especially in this space, to

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Speaker 2: look at the Constitution and say this is you can

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Speaker 2: drive a truck through this loophole.

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Speaker 1: I like to think that.

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Speaker 2: Our founders had some better sense, that the better angels

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Speaker 2: of those who were presidents would not have abused it.

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Speaker 1: In these ways. But here we are.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I'm a Democrat who can say that

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Speaker 2: presidents I didn't Clinton others also abuse this whether it

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Speaker 2: was Clinton's half brother.

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Speaker 1: Do you do any research on this as to why,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what are my favorite I find the pardon

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Speaker 1: I inclusion in the Constitution one of the biggest head scratchers,

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Speaker 1: Like if I could go into a time machine, because

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Speaker 1: here's a group of men and it was obviously we

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Speaker 1: know it was all men who were so concerned about

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Speaker 1: a monarchy and about preventing a monarch as the leader

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Speaker 1: of our country that they wrote this pretty incredible document

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Speaker 1: that has stood the test of time but created a

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Speaker 1: loophole right out of a monarchy. And it is one

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Speaker 1: of those how the heck did this get into the

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Speaker 1: Constitution in the first place.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty wild considering all the checks and balances that

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Speaker 2: are otherwise written into the Constitution. I mean, they were

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Speaker 2: so deliberate about, to your point, preventing a return of

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Speaker 2: the monarchy, and I think that they would be surprised

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Speaker 2: by the amount of presidential authority being exhibited today. Generally,

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Speaker 2: I think that the inclinations of those founding fathers were

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Speaker 2: actually have as strong legislative branch that could sort of

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Speaker 2: help dictate and set the pace for our governance. So

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Speaker 2: I did not go that far back in terms of

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Speaker 2: my history on the pardon, but I was intrigued to

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Speaker 2: learn that there actually was a very similar amendment put

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Speaker 2: forward following the pardon of Richard Nixon, almost exactly the

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Speaker 2: same in terms of a twoth thing that happened.

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Speaker 1: To It installed, obviously, but like, why did you get no?

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Speaker 1: But did you get some understanding? Who stalled it? Why

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Speaker 1: did it stall? This was a not a super majority

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Speaker 1: of Democratic majorities, but pretty close in seventy six and

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Speaker 1: seventy eight.

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Speaker 2: My sense is that it ended up not being bipartisan,

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Speaker 2: which is why we were so deliberate starting this out.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to drop this, this legislation, this constitutional

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Speaker 2: amendment until we had a Republican on board, And you know,

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Speaker 2: having Don agreed to do this was a game changer.

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Speaker 2: And it's really open doors to my Republican colleagues at

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Speaker 2: a time where it's really hard for us to have

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Speaker 2: conversations about anything. But I like to think that both

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Speaker 2: he and I approach our work in a way where

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Speaker 2: we may have pretty strong philosophical differences on any number

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Speaker 2: of issues, but that we treat each other in our

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Speaker 2: colleagues with some decency and respect, and that we can

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Speaker 2: approach this issue with the seriousness that it deserves, and

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Speaker 2: we're hopeful that, if not under this Congress, that in

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Speaker 2: a subsequent Congress, we actually do get this done, because

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Speaker 2: this is more than just I mean, I want to

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Speaker 2: see this done.

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Speaker 1: Beyond right, I assume your goal is you'll introduce this,

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Speaker 1: assuming the voters of Baltimore send you back, that you

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Speaker 1: will do this every Congress until you get us right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's one of many reforms that

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Speaker 2: we should be looking at. I mean, the fact that

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Speaker 2: we can't get a decent stockband passed, for example, is

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Speaker 2: sort of beyond beyond me. These are things that are

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Speaker 2: supported by eighty percent of the voters out there, Republicans

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Speaker 2: and Democrats alike. And so I'm I'm a firm believer

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Speaker 2: that one of the things we have to do, whether

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Speaker 2: it's as Democrats or as members of Congress, is have

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Speaker 2: people believe in the institution again. And that's sort of

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Speaker 2: holding ourselves to a higher standard and living that standard

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Speaker 2: a little bit. So this is one place where I

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Speaker 2: had a chance and step and lead.

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Speaker 1: And sort of know. It is a modest I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll just be honest, It is a somewhat modest proposal.

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Speaker 1: I you know, I don't know if one individual should

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Speaker 1: have this kind of power. And whether you thought of

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Speaker 1: creating a pardon board, you know, that might be made

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Speaker 1: up of the two most senior justices, the Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: maybe the chairs of the Senate Judiciary and House Judiciary.

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Speaker 1: Whatever you could create, we could just in the same

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Speaker 1: way we have the Gang of Eight for intel briefings

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Speaker 1: that administration. You know, you could put together a pardon

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Speaker 1: board where you would just like anything. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think plenty of states have taken the power away from

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Speaker 1: the governor, created these boards with the governor having ultimate

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Speaker 1: sort of thumbs up, thumbs down sign off. Essentially they

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Speaker 1: will sign off or they won't sign off. Did you

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Speaker 1: think about adding that or were you fearing that was

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Speaker 1: too complicated that it would sort of sort of take

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Speaker 1: the eye off of the focal of the focal point here,

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Speaker 1: which is just putting a check on his part and power.

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Speaker 2: Part of it with simplicity and aligns with the check

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Speaker 2: that already exists in Congress on other bills where there's

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Speaker 2: a conflict between the two branches. And frankly, the other

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Speaker 2: piece is most other boards. I guess it depends on

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Speaker 2: the state, but you sort of get into the questions

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Speaker 2: of does the governor or the president still have the

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Speaker 2: ultimate authority? And if they do for me, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: actually address the problem. And if they don't over the board,

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Speaker 2: then I think it could have been more challenging to

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Speaker 2: get Republicans on board to this idea, especially under this trank.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to be real, under this administration, taking

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Speaker 2: away the decision making of the president is not something

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Speaker 2: that is looked favorly by colleagues in the Republican Party

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: So when I think about the history of tough things

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Speaker 1: that need bipartisan support to get through, it's amazing how

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Speaker 1: often they happen in the month of December. Right, Don't Ask,

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Speaker 1: Don't Tell was repealed the month after the twenty ten

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Speaker 1: mid terms. And I remember, if somebody told you Democrats

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Speaker 1: just got shellacked in the twenty ten mid terms, you

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Speaker 1: know what they're successfully going to do next. They're going

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Speaker 1: to repeal Don't as, Don't Tell. And nobody would have

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Speaker 1: seen a company. Now, was it paired up with solidifying

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Speaker 1: the Bush tax cut? Yes, right, there was, certainly, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is this is what what we expect Congress to

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Speaker 1: do right, a little bit here, a little bit there,

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Speaker 1: and that's how that's how compromise happens, and that's how

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Speaker 1: progress happens. This screams December vote to me, meaning you

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Speaker 1: know if you could attach it to a must pass

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Speaker 1: bill that you would see you know, do you have

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Speaker 1: a strategy yet in your head of how you want

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Speaker 1: to get this passed? Or right now? Is it? If

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Speaker 1: you build it, they will come mindset.

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Speaker 2: Speaking at this point, it's building the coalition and helping

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Speaker 2: to tell the story about why this is important, why

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Speaker 2: it's needed, why it's not a partisan a proposal. But

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Speaker 2: I will say I actually I love the idea of

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Speaker 2: this being a December gift to the American people. So

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Speaker 2: I think that that's something that as we're you know,

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Speaker 2: as we're having the conversations, people are well, at least

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Speaker 2: say that's.

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Speaker 1: A great idea. We have to we have to do

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Speaker 1: something about. Yeah, let me ask this. Have you had

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Speaker 1: anybody say well, that's a terrible idea. And here's why.

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Speaker 2: No, if anything, it's I can't sign on that because right,

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Speaker 2: and so I think, to your point, right.

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Speaker 1: No, what do you say it's a bad idea? They're

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Speaker 1: just deciding whether they want to put their name.

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Speaker 2: On it, because what we've seen is indefensible.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: You can't defend Juan Orlando Hernandez pardon in Honduras. You

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Speaker 2: can't defend the cz crypto con artists who gave millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars to the Trunk cryptocurrency. You can't defend the

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Speaker 2: pardon shopping industry where people are now paying upwards of

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Speaker 2: half a million a million dollars to seek a pardon

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Speaker 2: from people closer.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's indefensible.

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Speaker 2: And so it's more a question of like, I don't

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Speaker 2: I'm not worried about it passing if it's giving a vote,

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Speaker 2: it's just the function of right. How do we find

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Speaker 2: a legislative vehicle or pathway to make sure this actually.

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Speaker 1: Gets I mean, look, the reason I look at December

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Speaker 1: is sort of you're probably an opportune time is if

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Speaker 1: the House is going to change hands and there is

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Speaker 1: going to be some cleanup, they're going to want to

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Speaker 1: get some votes out the door before they lose their majority,

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Speaker 1: and they want to be able to say that that

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, maybe that's when you get the

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Speaker 1: stock band, right. That's where you could picture how those

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Speaker 1: that have survived want to be able to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we we hear you, we heard the message, and this

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Speaker 1: is a way to respond. I mean it's like, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm just I will confess. I just want to see

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Speaker 1: I want to see this work. We need to prove

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Speaker 1: that we can use constitutional amendment. I do think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who feel powerless at the moment

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Speaker 1: that they look at the democracy and they think it's

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Speaker 1: rigged and I have no say in this. Yep, the

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Speaker 1: thought that a constitutional that Congress could propose a constitutional amendment,

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Speaker 1: it passes the House and the Senate, and it then

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Speaker 1: heads to the state legislatures. I mean it's you know,

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Speaker 1: civics one oh one, right, Like how an amendment becomes

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Speaker 1: comes to be would be a healthy exercise because it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things once we once we teach the

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Speaker 1: country had a fish, I think they'll keep trying to fish.

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Speaker 1: Just you know, that'd be nice to actually person in me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be nice to actually see what I told

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Speaker 2: my kids in ninth grade government class when I was

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Speaker 2: a teacher before I got into politics, that yes, this

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Speaker 2: stuff actually works and this is how things happened. Because

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Speaker 2: that has not been my experience in the past.

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Speaker 1: We really haven't passed a meaningful constitutional amendment, arguably since

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Speaker 1: the Kennedy assassination with the twenty fifth Amendment, Right that

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Speaker 1: that was a meaningful Oh we have a what if

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Speaker 1: the president had lived? Right? That was that to me

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Speaker 1: was at least responding to something. Hey, we hadn't dealt

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Speaker 1: with this, and perhaps we ought to deal with this scenario.

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Speaker 1: We really haven't had a meaningful one since then and

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Speaker 1: it worked. Well, that's close to sixty years now. I

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Speaker 1: know we've had a few things on pay raise and

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Speaker 1: lowering the age from twenty one eighteen, but to me,

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Speaker 1: this wasn't a dealing with something that was structurally broken

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Speaker 1: inside the republic.

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Speaker 2: Well, and your point, I think people want to have

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Speaker 2: something to believe in again and to say this is

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Speaker 2: something that transcends our parties and politics and that we

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Speaker 2: can look at our structures and how we function.

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Speaker 1: As a nation.

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Speaker 2: And I would love to give that hope to I

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Speaker 2: think a very weary, a weary.

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Speaker 1: And yes, I too, am a customer. You said something

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Speaker 1: else a few moments ago that I'm more skeptical frankly

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Speaker 1: that that is going to be easy to prove, and

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Speaker 1: that is that you can prove to the country that

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Speaker 1: Congress can you know, be a independent branch of government again.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if Democrats get the House back, you know,

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Speaker 1: some people are going to think they've got a mandate

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Speaker 1: to go impeach Trump, and some are going to say

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Speaker 1: they have a mandate to just simply oppose all things Trump.

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Speaker 1: And some will say, no, we have a mandate to

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Speaker 1: make Congress a functional branch again. The problem is, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm just speaking reality, your own caucus probably

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Speaker 1: is divided in three like this now, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: what what should be the focus, you know, what it

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Speaker 1: takes to create more belief in the independence of the

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Speaker 1: legislative branch, which might not be in the best interests

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Speaker 1: of the hardcore base of the Democratic Party. So how

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Speaker 1: do you navigate that?

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Speaker 2: The same way I think about all this is it's

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Speaker 2: sort of the I approach politics as a Maslow's hierarchy

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Speaker 2: and as a party and as a institution. We should

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Speaker 2: be focusing on addressing people's base needs first, and as

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Speaker 2: we were saying earlier, I feel like we've failed at

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Speaker 2: that miserably. Cost of living was supposed to be the number.

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Speaker 2: You know, day one, President Trump that he would address it.

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Speaker 2: Any number of my colleagues and I ran on lowering

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Speaker 2: the cost of living. And I always say, if people

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Speaker 2: can't put food on the table and provide for a

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Speaker 2: roof over their head, they don't really care about any

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Speaker 2: of the other issues. And so I think that we

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Speaker 2: can hold the president accountable, and if there are impeachable offenses,

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Speaker 2: we can look at pursuing that. But we have to

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Speaker 2: also provide for Americans, whether it's a fair wage, whether

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Speaker 2: it's addressing the healthcare crisis that is. You know, I

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Speaker 2: think the average maryland is paying four thousand dollars more

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Speaker 2: a year if they're still in the Affordable Care Act.

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Speaker 2: But we have to also, I guess what I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to is like prove that we can govern with integrity.

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Speaker 2: And so whether it's the millions of files that still

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Speaker 2: haven't been released on Epstein, whether it's the insider stock trading,

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Speaker 2: the constitutional it's all these things that make people feel

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Speaker 2: like from a policy perspective, they see people getting rich

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Speaker 2: off of these debts on war in Iran. They see

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Speaker 2: members of Congress trading stock and becoming millionaires while we're serving.

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Speaker 2: And then we're cutting food benefits, we're making healthcare more expensive,

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Speaker 2: we're not addressing the housing costs that people are experiencing.

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Speaker 2: And so I think just delivering, delivering on those basic needs,

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Speaker 2: doing so in a way that has some level of

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Speaker 2: ethics and integrity, I think provides the space that if

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Speaker 2: you were operating in good faith, you can then and

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Speaker 2: also do this impeachment or whatever else needs to happen.

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Speaker 1: As Democrats, Look, what you say seems pretty rational and normal,

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Speaker 1: and yet that isn't what ends up being what people

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Speaker 1: hear and they see coming out of Congress, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it gets partisan quickly, and it's going to be even

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Speaker 1: harder if you guys take control immediately there's going to

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Speaker 1: be a presidential campaign starting, and that is always even

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Speaker 1: harder on, you know, especially if you were the majority

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Speaker 1: in the House and you've got a bunch of people

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Speaker 1: running around Iowa, South Carolina with Democrats next there in

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Speaker 1: the name going Washington's terrible and dysfunctional. Congress doesn't know

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Speaker 1: what it's doing. You know, it will like create this

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Speaker 1: weird negative feedback loop that I think is going to

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Speaker 1: be quite hard to navigate, you know. And oh, by

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Speaker 1: the way, you're still dealing with potentially a runaway executive branch.

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Speaker 2: I mean, right now, it is Shrewe are dysfunctional. This

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Speaker 2: is one of the least productive congresses I think in

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Speaker 2: the history of Congress. What I tell people is that

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, Congress is an institution

435
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: that is made up of people. And maybe this is

436
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: me being a little pollyannish as a new member and

437
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 2: someone who hasn't been jaded by decades of service, But

438
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I don't think any

439
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: one person is beyond redemption. And so if you have

440
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: an institution full of people, you have to believe that

441
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: the institution isn't beyond redemption, it can also change, and

442
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: so I come at it as someone who, like my predecessor,

443
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: Doug Ruebersberger, was a local executive before coming here, and

444
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: I had a split counsel. We had four Democrats, we

445
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: had three Republicans. We passed gun safety legislation, we passed

446
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 2: police reform, we passed balanced budgets. We both cut cut

447
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 2: spending and found new ways to raise revenue. I mean,

448
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 2: it was just there's a way to do it.

449
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: Well. It's funny, though, you're actually in the minority in

450
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: the House, aren't you of executives serving in the legislative branch? Right,

451
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: there's a few more executives in the Senate, right, a

452
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: few more former governors.

453
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 2: And I think we'd be stronger if there were more

454
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: of us, can't.

455
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I'm trying to think. You know, you've

456
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: got uh uh, you've got Carlos Simnez, who's the former

457
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: mayor of Miami Dade County. You've you've got your county

458
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: exact Mecardo greg Stanton, that's right, Stanton, Mary mayor of Phoenix.

459
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: It is. You know, it's funny. Anybody who spent time

460
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: as a mayor right knows you can't be an ideologue,

461
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: you know. And to me, I know, county exact county

462
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: judge in some states, you know, but it's essentially we

463
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: call it our county mayor is a mayor in Florida.

464
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: Here it's a county executive. I know Texas it's a judge, right,

465
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: which gets really confusing, but I mean it is. You know,

466
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: it's easy to be a partisan when all you have

467
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: to do is legislate, isn't it.

468
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, governing is hard and if you want to find

469
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: I think the other challenge is is too is these

470
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,239
Speaker 2: chambers constantly are shifting back and forth, and we can

471
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: we can like we can play this game where it's

472
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: constantly we win and then we just sort of like

473
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: bash away everything the last group did and then we

474
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: build something and they take it.

475
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: Well, look at HR I think about this, and I

476
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: don't think you were there for HR one, but you

477
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: had Democrats who had there like Christmas Tree wish lists

478
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: when it came to what they how they would like

479
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: to see our voting rules. Well, guess what. The Republicans

480
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: came in and they have their wish list of and

481
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: neither one is reality based, right, They're both some things

482
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: seem reasonable, and some things seem a bit aspirational right

483
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: on eich side. And whenever I hear somebody say well,

484
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: it's all of it or nothing that, I'm like, oh,

485
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: you're not interested in passing any legislation then, right. I mean,

486
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: if Republicans were serious about voter ID, then they'd only

487
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: make it about voter ID, and I promise you they'd

488
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: probably get it past. Yes, I think there's forty percent

489
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: of the Democratic caucus. I would probably vote for vote ID,

490
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: and once I got that, I it might be all

491
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: of everybody. You know, we built somehow of that stuff works, yep.

492
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: And if Democrats have just simply wanted to guarantee a

493
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: minimum standard for early access to voting, and that's all

494
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: they wanted, they would have gotten bipartisan support for that. Right,

495
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: you know, the inability somehow to you know, go find

496
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: the slice of bread that everybody wants and let's let's

497
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: share it.

498
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 2: Well, those are those solutions that are sustainable, right because

499
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: you forced that compromise and that consensus, and they don't

500
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 2: ask forever. Necessarily, sometimes you'll have a big package that

501
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: will undo it. But I think by and large the

502
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 2: decisions are better and they're more sustainable when you take

503
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 2: that approach. There's another suit as opposed to President Trump

504
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 2: voting today by mail in Florida.

505
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: Rules for thee not for me. But here's another challenge

506
00:27:58,600 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: I think you guys are going to have if you

507
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: get control the House. Is I take it at that

508
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: as a minority, you don't feel like the majority has

509
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: treated you very well? Do you feel that way?

510
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: Very fair assessment, right, with the exception of especially my

511
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: Small Business Committee Roger Williams.

512
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the baseball.

513
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: Connection because he's the coach of the Republican team and

514
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: I play for the Democrats, but we've passed like three

515
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 2: bipartisan bills out of that committee.

516
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: Everybody loves small business. It's a reminder, right, there's certain

517
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: there are certain committees that can get stuff done. Agg

518
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: has usually been one that also can get stuff done

519
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: on a bipart.

520
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: But you generally know we have not been treated very

521
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: well by by the majority here.

522
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: Because I say that, because it then becomes really hard

523
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: to then say, oh, no, we're unlike how you treated us.

524
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: We're going to treat you better. Because the golden rule.

525
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: Everybody lives by the golden rule in politics and and

526
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: but they always live at it, live on it more

527
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: defensively than offensively. I mean, well you did this to me,

528
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: so I'm going to do it to you. Right everything is.

529
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: It's more biblical Old Testament, Biblical justice. Right eye for

530
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: an eye. That's not going to solve the longer term

531
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: problem of Congress's dysfunctional dysfunctionality. And yet you and I

532
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: both know leadership will get a lot of grief if

533
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, from the base and maybe from donors if

534
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: if they don't punish the other side. Here's how it

535
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 1: gets described. Let me get it. You're trying. This is

536
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: not a simple question to answer, and maybe this is

537
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: a better way to deal with this debate. There are

538
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: some that argue that, hey, when Democrats have power, they

539
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: ought to use their power. Look at how those guys

540
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: use They have power because of a three vote majority,

541
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: but they behave like they have a sixty vote majority.

542
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 1: We should behave the same way. Do you feel that

543
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: I think that's why they're losing so bad.

544
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: It's because of they're both but acting like a sixty

545
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: but they're not incorporating what I think are oftentimes good

546
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: democratic ideas which might win support on some legislation, and

547
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: they're allowing themselves to go so extreme, particularly with this

548
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: president's or of dictating the terms of what they're pursuing,

549
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: and they're not sort of showing any of that independence.

550
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: So I actually I'm going to be controlling here. I

551
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: think if Democrats and we shouldn't compromise our values, I

552
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: think we can compromise about compromising what our core values

553
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: are as Democrats. But if we're willing to at least

554
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: on a good number of items in good faith, say, okay, Republicans,

555
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: if you have an idea that is worth listening to,

556
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: for example, and it can win win your support to

557
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: help you know, move this piece of legislation forward, we'll

558
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: hear you out. I mean, my frustration going to rules

559
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: any number of times has basically been if if Virginia

560
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: Fox the chair, who's actually a very nice person. We

561
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: don't agree on anything, but we've gotten to know each other,

562
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: but she's the only one there there's even a conversation.

563
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: It's sort of any ideas the Speaker's committee for a reason, and.

564
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: It operates that way. But again, like things don't you've

565
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: you've covered this and been around this a lot more.

566
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: I just I just really think that there is there

567
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: is a crop of new members, especially in the Democratic side,

568
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: but also some Republicans I think, who see a different

569
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: way forward. And so I think depending on who comes

570
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: in and replaces the members who are departing, there might

571
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: be I think some space for maybe not a one

572
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: to eighty degree turn right, but but just maybe like

573
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: a thirty degree turn towards.

574
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: Well, all right, let me make I I appreciate your

575
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: optimism on that, but let's be realistic. The Republicans that

576
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: are likely to lose are the ones that are like

577
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: your co sponsor and the pardon bill Don Bacon, right,

578
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: these are the ones you know, it is it is

579
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: the It is those that are not hardcore MEGA that

580
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: are more likely to lose. And that so you may

581
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: have fewer Republicans in the House next year, but by

582
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: percentage in devotion to MEGA, you may have a greater

583
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: majority of MEGA adherents and so and that, Look, this

584
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: is due to this redistricting fiasco, which which you know,

585
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: I don't see why more redistricting in blue states makes

586
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: this better.

587
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: You couple partisan redistricting with partisan elections. That's what you're

588
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: going to get, right, Like, and so that's that's I

589
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: think a much harder reform is. I think that people

590
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: will defend those systems more than say the pardon situation

591
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: that we open with. But yeah, like and I think

592
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: you actually may see more progressive Democrats coming in in

593
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 2: addition to the crop right who are.

594
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: Not going to be interested. I mean, look, I've talked

595
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: to plenty of progressive who says I want my own

596
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. That you know, it's sort of if we're

597
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: going to live, if if if the world is ends

598
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: justifies the means, all right, then let's go get our

599
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: version of Donald Trump. Look, I obviously don't think that

600
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: that's the idea. But when you live in a reactionary

601
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: political environment, which is the one I think we're living

602
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: in in the moment, it's almost inevitable we're going to

603
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: see a version of this.

604
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: It's a good chance that we're going to see that. Right,

605
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: I think that there's a But the most important thing

606
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: is someone who can win.

607
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: And so I don't know that.

608
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: Elections are unique to the candidate, the circumstance, timing, and

609
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: so you're going to certainly I think see candidates in

610
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: that vein. Yeah, the obviously I think it might do

611
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: better in the respective primaries. But I think also, at

612
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: least for Democrats, I think we are coming to a

613
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: reckoning where it's like, if we don't win, none of

614
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: it matters.

615
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Right, So, and I hear you know, look, you and

616
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: I I'm guessing, even if it's Baltimore, you've seen the

617
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: redistricting ads that Obama's the spokesperson for quite a bit.

618
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure, right, if you've watched the NCAA tournament, I

619
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: feel like I've seen it. You know, I'm seeing Barack

620
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: Obama as much as I'm seeing Rick Patino on my

621
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: screen at the moment. And it is hard. You know,

622
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: you sit there and you're like, okay, hey, in order

623
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: to create fairness with Texas, we're going to have to

624
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: be unfair in Virginia.

625
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 2: Right.

626
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: And look, Maryland has contemplated this, and you've got some

627
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: Democrats in the state legislature, like, you know what, they're

628
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: worried about the long term consequences. I'm empathetic to the

629
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: fight fire with fire mindset, I get it right. And

630
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: if you do believe right, there are some you know,

631
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: Gavenusen says it out loud, and maybe I'll you know,

632
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: he believes if Democrats don't win the House this year,

633
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: there won't be a fair twenty twenty eight election. Now

634
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: I don't happen to believe that, but I respect people

635
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 1: that believe that, Like you know, I might be wrong

636
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: and they may be right. Where are you on that

637
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: level of concern.

638
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: I'm deeply concerned about the efforts with like the Save Act,

639
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 2: for example. I do think that the Senate's going to probably,

640
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: if not narrow, stay the same, and so I think

641
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard, at least as as envisioned

642
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: to pass what they're trying to get through. I am

643
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: actually concerned about, having lived through it and having seen it,

644
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: I'm actually concerned about the certification. So I am concerned

645
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 2: and obviously working to help elect a Democratic majority in

646
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, but knowing that the House and Senate

647
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: have to certify the elections in twenty twenty eight, I

648
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: think having at least one of those chambers be a

649
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: Democratic majority is actually the thing that I'm more interested in,

650
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: so that we have hopefully a fair free count and

651
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 2: we don't have any shenanigans around contesting the election results.

652
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: And are you confident that this House, you know, the

653
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: House Republicans. I've had, you know, some the House Republicans

654
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: will still have the majority in December when elections get certified.

655
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: And people don't really fully realize this, but Congress can decide,

656
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: ultimately decide whether a House race is yeah, yeah, it's

657
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 1: actually not something that's done by the state. What's your

658
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: level of concern that Speaker is going to get involved

659
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: after the election.

660
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: As we sit here today, I don't think the Speaker

661
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: is spotting to do that. I think that having led

662
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: a local election agency and partnered with election like they

663
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: do incredible work at the state and local levels to

664
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: run these elections, and overturning and challenging an election is

665
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 2: a pretty big step.

666
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: And look, last time Congress did it, one could argue

667
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: it's what created New Kingridge. You can go back in history.

668
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: It's called the it's an incident. It's referred to as

669
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: the Bloody Eighth. It was an Indiana eighth Congressional district

670
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: in eighty six. Within a year later, Democrats overturned the

671
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: recount the House Administration Committee and at the UH and

672
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: set the candidate that had lost the recount, and it

673
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: was arguably I've had people say you know when did

674
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: this polarization begin. And some will argue that that was

675
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: the moment that gave life to New Gingridge and when

676
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: you give he was the backbencher ready to throw bombs

677
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: at the time, Well, I look, I My level of

678
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 1: concern on that is only if it's a really tight margin,

679
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: right if we if we're looking at if we're looking

680
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: at three seats again, but this time it's three seats

681
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: on your side instead of the other side, then yeah,

682
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: I think every I think everything's a knife fight. If

683
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: it's a twenty seat gap, I don't see it.

684
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 2: Well, the seat gap and the margins of the elections themselves.

685
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 2: I think if it's if it's a three seat gap

686
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: but Democrats are Republicans have blown you know, we're one

687
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: fifteen points in those elections, it's harder, I think to justify.

688
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm learning a lot as a as a

689
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: new member here about sort of the ways in which

690
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: we govern ourselves.

691
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: And thens do you miss Do you miss being in

692
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: local government?

693
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: There are parts of this job that I enjoy and

694
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: I choose to focus on them. I definitely miss getting

695
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: things done. I mean that was that was the thing.

696
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: Every day.

697
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: It was like we and this is why I like

698
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: I'm in politics. Every day was a chance to make

699
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: somebody's life better. Yeah, and if we what's frustrating is

700
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: I know the resources this government has and the tools

701
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: at our disposal, and if we actually channeled them in

702
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 2: a way that was targeted and thoughtful and productive, it

703
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 2: would be I mean, we could transform We have transformed

704
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: this country before, right, you know, RAO, interstate highways, clean drinking, Like,

705
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: There's so much we could do, but instead we're yelling

706
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: at each other on social media. And it's I think

707
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: that's that's what's really unfortunate about all of it.

708
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,000
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Speaker 1: I think sometimes, you know, in reporting, it's I've always

740
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: thought it was really important to change beats. Now I

741
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 1: never did, and but having a fresh set of eyes

742
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: joined me on any beat was always helpful. You know what,

743
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: what have I gotten used to that isn't normal? But

744
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm treating as normal. So you're a fresh set of eyes.

745
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: What is Congress treat as normal that You're like, w TF?

746
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: What I mean? This? This is insanity. Give me a

747
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: few things like that. We already talked about the stock trading.

748
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: I think you can look through any number of the

749
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: ethics reports that are at least now public that in

750
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 2: any other environment, even what's already publicly made available would

751
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: lead to lead to the dismissal of members.

752
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: Just very out.

753
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: Again, it's this disconnect, and this is why people are like,

754
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: you can get away with anything if you're elected, or

755
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 2: if you're rich, or if you're you know, well connected.

756
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 2: But meanwhile, I can't pay my damn ortgage, right, I

757
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: can't find a job, and so like that's.

758
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: The what the heck is is all of this like.

759
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: Good good for me, not for not for thee or

760
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 2: if you're you know, if you know the presence people,

761
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: you can get a part.

762
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: And if and I have to say like.

763
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 2: Both is as like a kid who grew up in

764
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 2: like a steel town that shut down, Like I feel that, and.

765
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: It's it's frustrating.

766
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: It's hard to see because there are I think there

767
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: are so many good people who are there for the

768
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: right reasons.

769
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: But all that's let me let me ask you this

770
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: is it is the following statement true that ninety percent

771
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: of the work you do in Congress, there's ninety percent

772
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: agreement on nine of the work that we do. I

773
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: don't think so currently. No, you think it's that you

774
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: think that what we're fighting over is more than ten

775
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: percent of these days. And I look at it not.

776
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: You can look the numbers of suspension bills that we

777
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 2: pass every week, right, So like if you look at

778
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: it from a pure bill number perspective, yes, but I

779
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 2: think about all of the in my opinion, the terrible

780
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: things that were put into reconciliation, the debt increase, the

781
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: healthcare changes that are taking away of food supports, the

782
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 2: transfer of tax cuts to the wealthiest of the country,

783
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: and those are like I weigh though so much more

784
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: heavily in terms of like big things, things that are

785
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: impactful to this country that like renaming a post office.

786
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: I can't sort of give the same I got you wait,

787
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 2: so like in terms of like number of bills. Sure,

788
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: in terms of like impact or the magnitude of the issues,

789
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 2: not so much.

790
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: Well, that's it is because there is such a What

791
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: I try to convey to folks outside of Washington is

792
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 1: that you know, there's the stuff that gets the most

793
00:44:54,920 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: attention is still only ten percent of the of say

794
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: there's two Washington's. There's like a Washington that's consistently having

795
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: to get things done enough to let everything function. And

796
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: then there's the performance art political theater of Washington. And

797
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: I feel like the House of Representatives, those that have

798
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: whose names are the most famous are the ones that

799
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: do the least.

800
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of truth to that. And

801
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 2: that's a choice, right. I think at the end of

802
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 2: the day, you get you to choose, like do you

803
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: want to try to get stuff done or or do

804
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 2: you try to go viral?

805
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: All right, let me get at a couple of things here.

806
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: The redistricting in Maryland is something that you were supportive

807
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: of politically, but glad it didn't happen, or do you

808
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: think it should have happened.

809
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: I think it reinforces why we should be doing national reforms.

810
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 2: I mean, if Republicans and Democrats and we both yell

811
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: at each other about how terrible as in all the states,

812
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: then like, let's again, let's come together and do something

813
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: bipartisan and roll it back out everywhere.

814
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: You know, you have a simple way to solve this,

815
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: to potentially mitigate this issue. So my reform obsession is

816
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: something that Congress regularly did until nineteen twenty, which was

817
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 1: expand the size of the House. And you know, because

818
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 1: of a fight between the two parties about how much

819
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: we should reapportion and how many new seats should be

820
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: added to Congress, in nineteen thirty they shut it down.

821
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: Four thirty five became the number, and we went from

822
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: you went from representing one per three hundred and fifty

823
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: thousand to now one per eight hundred and it's on

824
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: its way to one two a million. And that was

825
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: not the founder's intent. And the bigger these congressional districts

826
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: are ironically the easier it is to use a faction

827
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: to win them, right, and if you actually narrowed them,

828
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 1: and if you had more of them, you know, essentially

829
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: we went back to one per three fifty. And I

830
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: think you could do this as constitutional amendment if you

831
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 1: wanted to, and sort of mandate that the House had

832
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: to expand make sure that no congressional district was bigger

833
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: than point oh three percent of the population, which is

834
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: the math that would get you to about one per

835
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: four hundred thousand. That you may not need the gerrymander,

836
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 1: you know. And look, it would fix the electoral college

837
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: discrepancies because it would raise the numerator right, and you

838
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: would have less likelihood. There'd still be a chance that

839
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: the popular vote and the electoral college would go differently,

840
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: but it's like a one percent chance, not where we

841
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: are now, which is somewhere in that ten to fifteen

842
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: percent range, which is destabilizing to the democracy. It just

843
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,479
Speaker 1: is I think we all can you have a series

844
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: eve enough elections in a row or the majorities, you know,

845
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: then people lose faith. I mean we've seen that in

846
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: Israel's dealing with this. The majority hasn't been that government

847
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: hasn't been a majority government in thirty years, you know,

848
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: and you sort of see what happens. There any appetite

849
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: inside the House to uncap the House as the as

850
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: us dorky kids who would like to who would like

851
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: to see this happen?

852
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: Call it, uh nothing that I've I've heard. I hear

853
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: more rumblings about things like rain choice voting. Frankly, and

854
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: that's mostly from the Democratic side of the House. I

855
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 2: haven't really heard much appetite other than folks who have

856
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: been impacted on the Republican resist by the raddiction who who.

857
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: Well, that's been the dirty little secret is that the

858
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 1: people that hate this the most are the actual members

859
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: of the US House, Like they're literally be treated like

860
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: ponds in this game again between Trump and the Democrats.

861
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and look, and so I understand like why

862
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: Democrats punched back, why there was a response, but I

863
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: tried to lean back into like I was ready drunk anywhere.

864
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: But it's it's.

865
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,439
Speaker 2: A chance for us all to say, we've all said

866
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: this is wrong. We've said's wrong. In Texas, we said wrong,

867
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: you know, Democrats criticized Texas, Republicans critics a California. So

868
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: then we agree. So let's do something about it. Oh yall,

869
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: eventually least not yet. What's your advice to came Jeffries

870
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: if you become speaker, keep it, keep it simple, focus

871
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: on that kitchen table, you know. Let's let's raise wages.

872
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: Let's provide opportunities for people to find jobs or get

873
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: trained for jobs.

874
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 1: Let's lower costs through ending tariffs.

875
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 2: Let's make healthcare more affordable by pushing the ACA Tax

876
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: Credit extension.

877
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: And let's let's lead with our values. Let's lead with integrity.

878
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: Let's let's pass the Pardon Integrity Act, and let's fix

879
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: the pardons. Let's band stock trading by members of Congress.

880
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: Six or seven things that people understand and get. Let's

881
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: try to put it on the president's desk and let him.

882
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 1: Say, Now, what's interesting there is you didn't say anything

883
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: about impeachment or account. It doesn't sound like you'd like

884
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: to see that be a top priority.

885
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: Okay, Look, I voted to advance the articles of impeachment

886
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: this term against this pressent. I think you certainly have

887
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: done any number of things that are are worthy of impeachment,

888
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: and so I'm prepared to do that.

889
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm prepared to hold.

890
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 2: This president accountable at the end of the day. I

891
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 2: also understand math, and so even if we impeach the

892
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: president in the House, I don't see the numbers or.

893
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: The math changing in the Senate. And so maybe it's

894
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: an important Well, that's a question, you know. It's funny.

895
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: I had this conversation with George Conway, who's running for Congress,

896
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: on this issue, which in some ways I appreciate the

897
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: honesty about it, right and the transparency. Right. What mandate

898
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: do you want? Here's the mandate I want you voters

899
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: decide whether you give it to me. There's two schools

900
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: of thought here on a third impeachment right. One school

901
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: says you have to show you're you're going to try

902
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: to hold them accountable, because you've got to send a

903
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: message to the next president and the next person that

904
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,399
Speaker 1: may hold office. Another says, if you shoot the if

905
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 1: you go for the if you shoot the king again

906
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 1: and miss again, have you made it where that tool

907
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: in the toolbox is no longer a usable tool? I can?

908
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: I can, I can argue both sides of this. If

909
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: you made me do it, where do you fall I

910
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: fall on?

911
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: I want to actually have accountability where we can, and

912
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 2: so part of the reason why I think taken the

913
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 2: House is so important is really the oversight hearings and

914
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: the subpoenas that we can do and actually getting information

915
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 2: out to the public that makes it harder for this

916
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: president to keep operating in what I think are often

917
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,720
Speaker 2: lawless ways and passing the legislation that, in my opinion,

918
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: for example, is the common sense reforms to ice that

919
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: are both best practice and that are overwhelmingly supported by Americans.

920
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 2: And so I'm not opposed to impeachment. In fact, was

921
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 2: affirmatively for it. But I think at the end of

922
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 2: the day, accountability means that we're changing what's happening in

923
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: people's lives, and we're changing the restraints on this president

924
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: and future presidents, and so I'm for whatever does That

925
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 2: is sort of my focus in all of this.

926
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: All right, let me get you out of here. On

927
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: Wes Moore for president, he has said he's not running

928
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: for president in twenty twenty eight, and I think it's

929
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: actually true. He is currently not running for president in

930
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: twenty twenty yes, that I'm aware of. If he chooses

931
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 1: to run in twenty twenty eight, is there any hesitation

932
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: in your part to endorse him.

933
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to broad coalition of I think exceptional

934
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 2: Democrats that we have. I am not pre committing to

935
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: endorse any of them, look forward to seeing what they

936
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: all have to offer for America. The Governor's been a

937
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 2: great partner here in Maryland. I think he would be

938
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: a viable candidate should he changed from now to striking

939
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: the now part of the answer. But I think that,

940
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: especially in this moment, that Democrats need to put all

941
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: of our voices forward and I think have a robust

942
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: discussion about what the future of our party is going

943
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 2: to be, who's best equipped to lead us? And I

944
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 2: think it'd be great to have Governor more be part

945
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 2: of that conversation, but not at a point where I

946
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,439
Speaker 2: would be endorsing any particular candidate at this point.

947
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: What does what does electability mean to you? How do

948
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: you define it? If that's going to be quite the

949
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 1: debate in twenty twenty eight? Who's electable? And what's electability?

950
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: I mean? And obviously it's true at senses. Who can win?

951
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 2: I think I think it's someone who has policies that

952
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 2: resonate with the American people and someone who can be

953
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: cool and fun.

954
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's one of the places where Democrats.

955
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: I do think there's got to be a little bit

956
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: of a personality test here.

957
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we've fallen fat flat on our faces

958
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 2: as Democrats. We've lost the sort of swagger and the

959
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 2: coolness of our presidential candidates.

960
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: But it just it hasn't and it's Cleton and Obama

961
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: had their own level of cool when they were in office.

962
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: Even Biden the first time, you know, the aviators in

963
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: the ice cream it was, it was a little bit

964
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,399
Speaker 2: of a swagger and a thing. And so figuring out

965
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 2: as a party, how we get back to having both

966
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: someone with the right policies, who can I think speak

967
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: to those working interesting.

968
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: So you really think the Democrats need to find what

969
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: one what the kids might call it, the main character

970
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: they need to find. They need to find, you know,

971
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: I find my one of my favorite lines during the

972
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: twenty twenty presidential debates was from Michael Bennett and he said,

973
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, if you elect me president, you may go

974
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: three weeks without hearing from me. And I thought, hey,

975
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 1: there's I like that. But I realized I'm not I'm

976
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: not the maturity I think. So the point is is

977
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: you're saying that is not what you think the country

978
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: is going to be looking for. Is is somebody to

979
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: be a character, a sort of Gerald Ford and I

980
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: say that, show me some.

981
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: Show me some rids man like as as as my

982
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 2: daughter and her friends would say, Yeah, I think you

983
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 2: have to be able. You can have the best vision

984
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 2: and ideas in the world. But if you can't and

985
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: then and look, Trump is a hell of a salesman.

986
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: He puts on a hell of a show. I don't

987
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 2: agree with most of his policies. I think they're garbage

988
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 2: for this country, but he puts on a great show.

989
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: And he did it at the State of the Union, right,

990
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: didn't didn't talk about a ran at all, but the

991
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 2: show and the spectacle was impressive. And so we need

992
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: I think we need someone who both can speak to

993
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 2: our values and touch our hearts, but also can do

994
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 2: it in a way that people are like, Yeah, let's.

995
00:55:49,840 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: Go Coivers and Johnny Olcheskey, how'd I do? Not getting it? Okay? Johnny? Oh,

996
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: it's I think man, you got it? Johnny Oh, I

997
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: mean it's going to be you ever run for state

998
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: wide office that you definitely have to be Johnny Oh,

999
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: that's easy on the bumper sticker, right, I.

1000
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: Think that's it. That's the sticker. Now we're gonna just

1001
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 2: make the transition.

1002
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: Well, I enjoyed this, joyed getting to know you. Likewise,

1003
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: let's see if the uh you're gonna is the Are

1004
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: the Oriols going to make Camden Yards a hot ticket again? Uh?

1005
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 2: Ti Alonso was a great free agent pick up. The

1006
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 2: fact that we optioned Dean Kramer to the Miners tells

1007
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 2: me that we have a starting rotation that actually looks

1008
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 2: pretty good this year. So I'm a big fan of

1009
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 2: our new ownership team.

1010
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, No, I'm jealous. I wish he bought the Nets.

1011
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: I was I was hoping that that David. I was like, no, no, no,

1012
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: no no, he took Baltimore and we lost David Rubinstein.

1013
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 2: But you're right, you do have a good owner, a

1014
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 2: great owner, great team. Oriol Park is quintessential like the

1015
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 2: new era. So yeah, I'm always big. Also, like, it's

1016
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 2: hard to be Johnny Oh and.

1017
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 1: Not be for the O's. So you got to be

1018
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: for the O's, right, you know, you never know who, right?

1019
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, I can to see the black and

1020
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: orange Johnny O hats there for you. So Anyway, Congress

1021
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: didn't great to get to know you. Thank you, I

1022
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: appreciate it. H.