Speaker 1: You know what I feel like is fading out as
Speaker 1: like the top accessory. What handbags. I feel like people
Speaker 1: really carried handbags and that was like part.
Speaker 2: Of your look.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't ever carry back These days, you really
Speaker 3: maximize the pocket and I don't have fockets on my outfit.
Speaker 3: It's quiet for me because what am I gonna do
Speaker 3: with all this stuff? And you know, I never wear
Speaker 3: ear rings. My friend don't. She don't need them. She'll
Speaker 3: have the glasses on. She's got that mold popping, she's
Speaker 3: got it.
Speaker 1: But I think the new accessory, when I say it,
Speaker 1: you're going to remember, mm hmm, it's nails, honey.
Speaker 3: Nails are having a renaissance right now before you go
Speaker 3: on the red carpet. Everybody's nails is like short, maybe
Speaker 3: a color, and now the longer the better. They're all
Speaker 3: jeweled out on three D and on everyone. Day to day,
Speaker 3: people like me and you, yes are doing their nails.
Speaker 3: I've watched over the course of the pandemic, my friend
Speaker 3: Monique started doing her own nails.
Speaker 2: I said, I don't think you are authorized to do that.
Speaker 3: People are going on Amazon giving themselves full acrylic sets
Speaker 3: at home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 3: But that really made us think about the science behind nails,
Speaker 3: but also the social science of the nail experience. So
Speaker 3: that relationship that you have with your nail technician.
Speaker 1: Yes, even the relationship with self when your nails are done, yes,
Speaker 1: because I mean, everybody feels good when they can click
Speaker 1: clack clack claque.
Speaker 2: Let me drinking my water like.
Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify, This
Speaker 1: is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcasts
Speaker 1: that mixes hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dose
Speaker 1: of friendship.
Speaker 3: This week, we're talking all about nails now tt.
Speaker 1: We have gone through it all, from acrylics to those
Speaker 1: little stickered things yep, to press on, jail nails, jail nails,
Speaker 1: you name it, we've tried it.
Speaker 3: But we really wanted to know more about the history
Speaker 3: and culture of nails, going to the salon, and some
Speaker 3: of the health and safety issues that come with working
Speaker 3: in salons.
Speaker 1: So let's dive right in and get into the recitation.
Speaker 1: What do we know TT, Well.
Speaker 3: I think we know from experience that getting your nails
Speaker 3: done is a form of self care.
Speaker 1: Yes, they're also becoming a lot more popular in mainstream
Speaker 1: culture too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you think back to the met Gala when you
Speaker 3: were looking at every one's nails and how lots of
Speaker 3: folks were wearing really long nails that match their outfits.
Speaker 3: That is something that I feel like is very new.
Speaker 1: Yes, but we also know there's a lot of different
Speaker 1: chemicals and materials and even drying and curing processes involved
Speaker 1: at the salon.
Speaker 2: To get those beautiful outcomes.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, so what do we want to know?
Speaker 1: Like you mentioned, it feels new what we're seeing in
Speaker 1: this mainstream culture, but let's take a look back at
Speaker 1: the history of nail art and how it's evolved over time.
Speaker 2: I want to know the underpinnings there.
Speaker 3: I'm really curious about the relationship of nails to the individual,
Speaker 3: but then also to the nail texts, the communities and
Speaker 3: the neighborhoods more broadly, so, how are salons a part
Speaker 3: of community?
Speaker 1: And I think we also want to explore the health
Speaker 1: and safety issues in the industry, especially since those issues
Speaker 1: mainly impact women of color and until the past couple
Speaker 1: of years have been kind of brushed aside by the industry.
Speaker 1: All right, let's jump into the dissection. Thanks our guest
Speaker 1: for Today's lab is Crystal Kayiza.
Speaker 4: I'm Crystal Kayiza and I'm a filmmaker based in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: Crystal's film See You Next Time highlights the intimate relationship
Speaker 3: between a nail tech and her client and the nuance
Speaker 3: that goes into this ritual of self care. The film
Speaker 3: approaches nail art and nail styling as a creative collaboration
Speaker 3: between women of color. But before we get into the
Speaker 3: dynamics of that collaboration, we wanted to learn a little
Speaker 3: bit more about the history of nail art.
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty two, nail art has become this huge
Speaker 4: pop culture phenomenon, but I didn't necessarily grow up with,
Speaker 4: you know, people on red carpets talking about who their
Speaker 4: nail artists were and all of those things.
Speaker 3: Yes, we've seen a huge shift in the culture around
Speaker 3: nails and nail art in our lifetimes, but people all
Speaker 3: over the world have been creating art with their nails
Speaker 3: for a very long time.
Speaker 1: You can take this back to ancient Babylon men who
Speaker 1: used coal to paint their nails, and so that's thirty
Speaker 1: five hundred BC. Okay, that's a long, long, long come ago.
Speaker 1: And so they were using black for the upper class,
Speaker 1: while green was used for the lower classes.
Speaker 3: And in ancient Egypt, queens Cleopatra and Nephertiti were known
Speaker 3: for painting their nails red using hennah, and Chinese royals
Speaker 3: painted their nails in the Ming dynasty using egg whites, wax,
Speaker 3: plant dyes and other materials.
Speaker 1: Now fast forward a little bit in France in the twenties,
Speaker 1: people began experimenting with using high gloss car paint to
Speaker 1: paint their nails. They're like, this is gonna be shiny,
Speaker 1: all right. And then we saw some innovation in response
Speaker 1: to that from Revlon who came out with nail formula
Speaker 1: that was using pigments instead of dyes, which allowed them
Speaker 1: to have a lot more shades.
Speaker 3: Modern manicures became popular among celebrities, and nail polish became
Speaker 3: increasingly available in drug stores, which led to more mainstream
Speaker 3: use of nail polish.
Speaker 1: Now, when we think about going from just adorning our
Speaker 1: natural nails then going to artificial nails, that came along
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four when the first artificial nails were
Speaker 1: invented by a dentist who broke his nail. Talk about
Speaker 1: all the cosmics dentistry feels like cosmetics and it's right
Speaker 1: there with nails, right And that led to the invention
Speaker 1: of acrylic nails that we see today, and the popularity
Speaker 1: and widespread adoption of acrylics began in the seventies and eighties,
Speaker 1: and acrylic nail art continues to thrive today with new
Speaker 1: trends and technology and of course social media. And I
Speaker 1: think when we consider all of this, especially the rise
Speaker 1: of acrylics, it feels important to credit black women with
Speaker 1: pioneering the culture around acrylic nails. Black women have been
Speaker 1: wearing acrylics and creating new styles for decades.
Speaker 3: Yes, one of the first people that pops into my
Speaker 3: mind is flow Jo Yes, Florence Griffith Joyner. She is
Speaker 3: an Olympian who was also a hairdresser and a nail tech,
Speaker 3: and she wore six inch acrylic nails while she was running.
Speaker 3: It caused a lot of drama, people looking at her
Speaker 3: and saying, oh my gosh, how is that clean? But
Speaker 3: she was really making a statement.
Speaker 1: Yes, she might be the first to pop in your mind,
Speaker 1: but she's not the last. When we think about the
Speaker 1: legacy of Black women in their nails is incredible, But
Speaker 1: along with that legacy comes a lot of racism and stigma. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: Black women's nails have often been looked at as low class, unclean,
Speaker 1: or over sexualized and subject to public comment and critique
Speaker 1: in the media. And it's so interesting because now acrylics
Speaker 1: are like way more popular. They're accepted in mainstream culture,
Speaker 1: and we see a lot more white celebrities wearing them
Speaker 1: with you know, Ti Die and different art and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, look, how nice. But Black women
Speaker 1: are still leading the movement for nail right and innovation. Lizzo, Yeah,
Speaker 1: KRTI our GIRLI our KARTI our good since Rihanna and
Speaker 1: Megan thee Stallion, yes, too many to day and their
Speaker 1: nail artists are becoming celebrities in their own rights too.
Speaker 3: As they should be.
Speaker 2: So while we might not be getting manicures like Rihanna
Speaker 2: ORCARTI b you.
Speaker 1: Know, getting your nails done can be kind of this
Speaker 1: staple for self care for Black women, and it has been,
Speaker 1: I think for quite a few years.
Speaker 2: We both know people who regularly get their nails done.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, every two weeks, they're in the salon with
Speaker 3: that feeling.
Speaker 1: But sometimes, you know, I'm a person I'll do a
Speaker 1: little bit of both. Tt you're a DIY person now, absolutely.
Speaker 3: I am at home buying stuff off Amazon. Press lines
Speaker 3: have been my thing. Okay, if you see anything done
Speaker 3: to my nails, just no, HiT's a press on and
Speaker 3: don't do anything too crazy because they will fly off.
Speaker 1: And we want to know where everybody else is on
Speaker 1: the nail spectrum. Are you getting elaborate designs weekly, every
Speaker 1: other week, once a month, or are you somebody who's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about it.
Speaker 3: I'm just slipping my nails manny patties every once in
Speaker 3: a while. Yeah. If you check the app right now,
Speaker 3: you'll see a poll.
Speaker 2: Take the ball.
Speaker 3: Let us know what are y'all into. Crystal has personal
Speaker 3: experience getting her nails done too.
Speaker 4: I grew up in a household were having your nails
Speaker 4: painted was a very particular thing. You had to be
Speaker 4: of a certain age, you could only have certain colors,
Speaker 4: certain designs, And my mom was a nurse, so like
Speaker 4: she had to have her nails a certain way and
Speaker 4: could only have certain types of designs, or could I
Speaker 4: have her nails painted at a certain time. I just
Speaker 4: remember growing up not being able to necessarily paint my
Speaker 4: nails red.
Speaker 5: That was a huge rule in my house.
Speaker 4: And my mom also had a thing about winter colors
Speaker 4: versus spring colors versus summer colors. I remember coming home
Speaker 4: from college and having like dark nails in June, and
Speaker 4: my mom was like, why do you have dark nails
Speaker 4: in June this summer nail season?
Speaker 5: Like do something bright.
Speaker 4: So all of these things are kind of embedded in
Speaker 4: my understanding of these like random arbitrary rules for myself.
Speaker 4: But it was something that was very individual to me.
Speaker 4: But then as I got older and started talking with
Speaker 4: my friends, it's like, no, I wasn't allowed to paint
Speaker 4: my nails red at thirteen, and like show up and
Speaker 4: act growing and all of those things.
Speaker 1: I had some similar experiences to Christal. I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, red nails. It's like, girl, where do you
Speaker 1: think you're going? But even more than red nails, you
Speaker 1: had to be a certain age to wear tips, like yeah,
Speaker 1: like yeah, that was a thing.
Speaker 3: The first time I ever got my nails done, I
Speaker 3: was a senior in high school. I couldn't get my
Speaker 3: nails done before then.
Speaker 1: It had to be like four brom That was the
Speaker 1: only time I was allowed to and it was life changing.
Speaker 1: For Crystal and many black women, nails have been an
Speaker 1: entry point into self expression and part of our stories
Speaker 1: of coming of age and really coming into our own.
Speaker 5: For me, it was.
Speaker 4: Always something that felt like a bit of right, a
Speaker 4: passage of being able to go to the nail salon
Speaker 4: with my mom and be able to decide for myself
Speaker 4: what I wanted my nails to look like. And it's
Speaker 4: something that I think as a young adult I returned
Speaker 4: to definitely when I moved to New York City for
Speaker 4: the first time and you know, was figuring out what
Speaker 4: to do. One of the routines that brought me comfort
Speaker 4: was just sitting in the nail salon and just taking
Speaker 4: a break after work and having that moment of peace.
Speaker 3: A lot of people feel like the salon is a
Speaker 3: place where you can go to reset. If every two
Speaker 3: weeks you do a little something that makes you feel good,
Speaker 3: that is absolutely an act of self care.
Speaker 1: Crystal talked about time at the salon as a ritual
Speaker 1: with in the context of self care in her film
Speaker 1: See You Next Time.
Speaker 5: The term self care still feel very new.
Speaker 4: I think through the process of making the film really
Speaker 4: rethought the term self care. And really thought about it
Speaker 4: as a ritual because it's like you're going to see
Speaker 4: the same person every two weeks. Like the relationship is
Speaker 4: so specific to that space, and oftentimes, I think, particularly
Speaker 4: for working class women, it's like one of the only
Speaker 4: spaces where you can sit back and have someone else
Speaker 4: take care of you. You don't have to worry about
Speaker 4: all the things that are happening outside of the nail
Speaker 4: salon space.
Speaker 3: I think this whole idea is really important because thinking
Speaker 3: about the salon as a ritual of self care dignifies
Speaker 3: the process as something that is intentionally habitual. And it's
Speaker 3: also different from doing your own nails, you know, like
Speaker 3: Crystal said, part of the self care is allowing somebody
Speaker 3: else to take care of you through a really intimate
Speaker 3: relationship with a neltech or artist, and I think those
Speaker 3: relationships are really important to the conversations around nail style
Speaker 3: and art.
Speaker 4: There are all of these economic exchanges that happen throughout
Speaker 4: our day, but they're also simultaneously relationships that are being
Speaker 4: built as well. One thing that I learned is that
Speaker 4: the relationship in the space is very complex, and the
Speaker 4: images and conversation I had with both of the women
Speaker 4: in the film only scratched the surface when everyone's experience
Speaker 4: is very individual to them and unique and complex in
Speaker 4: the sense of how black women are seen and understood
Speaker 4: in that space, but also complex in terms of on
Speaker 4: the other side of the table, a lot of particularly
Speaker 4: Asian women that are doing a lot of the labor
Speaker 4: in that space.
Speaker 3: Yes, when we're talking about the industry, we need to
Speaker 3: talk about who's doing that work and how they are impacted.
Speaker 3: There was a study at a Cornell University that showed
Speaker 3: that almost three quarters, so seventy three percent of nail
Speaker 3: salon workers were Asian or Pacific islander and about a fifth,
Speaker 3: or twenty one percent were LATINX. The vast majority are
Speaker 3: also immigrants. Eighty eight percent were born in other countries
Speaker 3: beside the US. You also have to ow overlay the
Speaker 3: economic aspect as well.
Speaker 1: You know, people are trying to make a living wage.
Speaker 1: The average wage for nail workers in New York City
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty was thirteen dollars and seventy four cents
Speaker 1: an hour. Okay, so that's thirteen seventy four an hour
Speaker 1: for nail workers. The living wage for a single adult
Speaker 1: in New York County which covers Manhattan. So New York
Speaker 1: City is twenty five dollars and forty two cents an hour.
Speaker 1: So already there's a gap there.
Speaker 2: Huge gap.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not meeting the living wage.
Speaker 1: And when we say living wage, we're not talking about
Speaker 1: really living We're just saying that only includes your basic needs.
Speaker 1: It doesn't include any money to eat out, unpaid vacations,
Speaker 1: emergency expenses, or future planning like savings or any type
Speaker 1: of retirement. That model is really only a small step
Speaker 1: up from poverty.
Speaker 2: So it's important to talk about that other side of
Speaker 2: the coin.
Speaker 1: For some people getting their nails done, it's part of
Speaker 1: a self care ritual, but it's also somebody's job to
Speaker 1: provide that service. And it's hard work. Is hard angles
Speaker 1: for your body, right, and it's long hours, and it's
Speaker 1: exposure to a lot of chemicals and in the pandemic people,
Speaker 1: and I think that really takes us right into the
Speaker 1: health and safety aspect. Tt So let's talk about some
Speaker 1: of these materials that people and nail salons are dealing with.
Speaker 3: When you pint your nails at home with a regular
Speaker 3: bottle of nail polish or a laquer, the polish is
Speaker 3: made up of polymers, So this is a long chain
Speaker 3: of molecules that can form strong structures. So those polymers
Speaker 3: are dissolved in a solvent, and when you paint those
Speaker 3: solvents on then they evaporate, so it's a mixture of
Speaker 3: solvents with the colors that you see. Then once you
Speaker 3: put it on your fingernail, the solvent evaporates and leaves
Speaker 3: the color behind as dried nail polish.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, one of our friends, Julian, got a manicure,
Speaker 1: and Julian got some.
Speaker 2: Regular nail polish.
Speaker 1: Uh huh chipped very quickly, which made Julian upset, as
Speaker 1: he should be. So I told him that he should
Speaker 1: have got jail nails because they're longer lasting. And I
Speaker 1: know that they're like cured with UV or led light,
Speaker 1: but is that the same thing, Like, how is it different?
Speaker 3: So with gel nail polish, when you paint that gel
Speaker 3: onto your fingernail and then you sit under a UV light,
Speaker 3: it is using the UV light to form even stronger
Speaker 3: bonds to each other and to your fingernail, which is
Speaker 3: why gel lasts a lot longer.
Speaker 1: Okay, I remember when they came out, everybody was like
Speaker 1: this lasts for so long it doesn't chip. But for
Speaker 1: me jail, when you paint it on sometimes it peels away,
Speaker 1: like if there's air or something that gets trapped under.
Speaker 1: And then I remember when everybody was doing those dipping.
Speaker 2: Powders for their nails.
Speaker 3: I've never done that.
Speaker 1: I had it one time, and baby, that stuff was
Speaker 1: so lumpy the tech I had.
Speaker 2: I was like, do you normally do this?
Speaker 1: And I looked at my nail from the side, my
Speaker 1: high mountains, moving mountains on top of my nail beard. Okay,
Speaker 1: but you know, new material are constantly emerging and people
Speaker 1: are liking the powder. I've seen people using the powder
Speaker 1: to create you know, I didn't want that amountain. I
Speaker 1: wanted to smooth nail. But I see people creating like
Speaker 1: three D r yeah, to make designs and stuff. I've
Speaker 1: also seen people making like the chrome effect, making your
Speaker 1: nail look like there's glass. It feels like there are
Speaker 1: no boundaries. Everybody's out here doing chemistry.
Speaker 3: And you know, we're talking about a lot of chemicals
Speaker 3: and exposure to these chemicals. Yes, and so with us,
Speaker 3: we've both worked in lass. We know what it takes
Speaker 3: to be around some of these chemicals, and so it
Speaker 3: makes you think, what are the health and safety precautions
Speaker 3: that are in place to protect the salon workers.
Speaker 4: A few years ago, particularly in New York, there was
Speaker 4: an increased awareness around health and safety practices and nail
Speaker 4: swans across the city. And again, the majority of women
Speaker 4: are doing the slave are women of color, are like
Speaker 4: low income and working class women of color. And the
Speaker 4: long term effects that a lot of the tools and
Speaker 4: chemicals that are used in nail salons. I think that
Speaker 4: there's a broader conversation around how those practices have impacted
Speaker 4: those communities have impacted workers, And I think having a
Speaker 4: magnifying glass about specific issue like also illuminated a lot
Speaker 4: of other things that are happening in terms of fair wages,
Speaker 4: of making sure people were working reasonable hours and getting
Speaker 4: compensated correctly.
Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, there was this investigation published in the
Speaker 1: New York Times and it was looking into New York
Speaker 1: City salons and New York City is the nail salon
Speaker 1: capital of the United States. Yes, and they've found that
Speaker 1: a lot of chemicals that were used in the nail
Speaker 1: salons have been linked to cancer, abnormal fetal development, miscarriages,
Speaker 1: in addition to respiratory and skin problems. Separately, when they
Speaker 1: were talking to nail texts, they were explaining that they
Speaker 1: were having experiences with those exact same problems that the
Speaker 1: chemicals have been linked to.
Speaker 3: According to the investigation, one of the big issues with
Speaker 3: trying to make a change in this space is that
Speaker 3: there's a lack of data. So we don't know enough
Speaker 3: about the long term effects of exposure to these chemicals
Speaker 3: because no one is looking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so now you're just stuck with anecdotal evidence, and
Speaker 1: so you can't really say, Okay, this is exactly, certainly
Speaker 1: this way with this anecdotal evidence, but you also can't
Speaker 1: say it's not exactly because no one's looking.
Speaker 3: One of the doctors that was referencing the article said
Speaker 3: that many of his patients who work in salons exhibit
Speaker 3: respiratory problems usually associated with smoking or asthma, and one
Speaker 3: manicurist in the article shared her fingerprints have all but
Speaker 3: disappeared from working in salon, So like just absolutely burned off.
Speaker 1: If you're trying to figure out the toxic chemicals and
Speaker 1: nail products, sometimes you see a toxic trio, a toxic quartet, quartet.
Speaker 3: A toxic quintet.
Speaker 2: They're making various bands. We'll pull from the trio.
Speaker 1: That's dibutal thalae, taluing and formaldehyde. Those chemicals are linked
Speaker 1: to serious health issues.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Dibutal Thalae is a plasticizer that makes polish flexible, and
Speaker 3: it can affect reproductive health and it's also been linked
Speaker 3: to miscarriage, problems with fetal development, and impaired fertility. It's
Speaker 3: been banned in the EU from cosmetic use since two
Speaker 3: thousand and three.
Speaker 1: Okay, So, taluane is used as a solvent in many
Speaker 1: nail products and it helps with like smooth nail polished application,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's not lumpy when you try to
Speaker 1: paint it on. But the fumes from inhaling this can
Speaker 1: cause headaches, nausea, dizziness, liver and kidney damage as well
Speaker 1: as adverse effects and fetal development.
Speaker 3: And formaldehyde is a preservative and hardening agent used to
Speaker 3: strengthen nail products and besides being known as a carcinogen
Speaker 3: and can cause respiratory issues like difficulty breathing, coughing, asthma
Speaker 3: like attacks, wheezing, and burning the eyes, nose, and throat.
Speaker 3: It's been banned in cosmetic products in the EU as well,
Speaker 3: which is for real wild to me.
Speaker 2: My eyebrow is up.
Speaker 3: Okay, I've got a lot of questions.
Speaker 1: The problem is in the United States, regulation around cosmetics
Speaker 1: is basically non existent. So the EU has banned or
Speaker 1: restricted over thirteen hundred chemicals and cosmetics, while I'll let
Speaker 1: you guess how many you think the United States has
Speaker 1: restricted or prohibited.
Speaker 3: I'm going to try and not be so pessimistic that
Speaker 3: you has thirteen hundred. I'm going to say the US
Speaker 3: has half of that.
Speaker 1: Okay, wrong? Oh okay, so half was generous. And even
Speaker 1: if you wanted to say ten percent, that's one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty, that's also wrong.
Speaker 2: We're less than one percent. The United States has only
Speaker 2: restricted or prohibited eleven chemicals. That's just embarrassing.
Speaker 1: Just because it's legal, don't mean it's safe. Baby, Exactly.
Speaker 3: If you've ever been around nail polish or nail polish remover,
Speaker 3: you know that distinct smell. Yeah, when you smell it,
Speaker 3: you're like, hmm, you can tell it. You don't want
Speaker 3: to be inhaling that like all the time. But then
Speaker 3: you think about people that work in nail salons, they're
Speaker 3: around those chemicals all day and sometimes all night.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: When I think back, I remember like when COVID first
Speaker 1: started and people were in masks. I say, oh, they
Speaker 1: were in nil salon mask and they needed to stop
Speaker 1: find particles. And it shocks me when I go to
Speaker 1: the salon and people are like, oh, you don't need
Speaker 1: a mask for COVID anymore.
Speaker 2: I'm like, but we need a mask to be in here.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When you think about all those powders and that stuff,
Speaker 1: like all in the hair. Oh, and you can sometimes
Speaker 1: see like a fine dust on your hands after you
Speaker 1: get your nails done, think about breathing all that stuff in.
Speaker 1: So in the US, we only have eleven of those
Speaker 1: chemicals that are banned in cosmetic products. But some companies
Speaker 1: have released new products that are quote unquote free free,
Speaker 1: meaning that they don't contain that toxic trio that we
Speaker 1: talked about. But testing shows that some of these products
Speaker 1: still contain the ingredients.
Speaker 2: Wait, so they're saying that they're not there, but they did.
Speaker 3: I don't know understand how that works, Like it's not there,
Speaker 3: but it's actually there. You know how they'd be like
Speaker 3: they use the word organic, but they use a k
Speaker 3: at the end yet on them.
Speaker 1: And you know, and even going back to the mask thing,
Speaker 1: like that's great for the powder, but those masks are
Speaker 1: not preventing fumes, right, So even if you're cutting out
Speaker 1: one thing, you still have other risks and you can
Speaker 1: sometimes get a false sense of security. So it just
Speaker 1: feels like there's a long way to go in making
Speaker 1: nail salons safe for workers and the customers too. And
Speaker 1: part of that feels like there has to be some
Speaker 1: type of cultural shift.
Speaker 4: When I was growing up, I didn't see very many
Speaker 4: face masks and nail salans, and today that's not the case.
Speaker 4: Growing up having gone to nail salon, there's a certain
Speaker 4: expectation of how much you pay to get your nails
Speaker 4: done for a long period of time, and like as
Speaker 4: people see those prices change, you know, those tensions increase.
Speaker 1: So I think there's a couple of things to consider,
Speaker 1: right when you recognize the effect that a cost has
Speaker 1: on the workers and then how that gets passed down
Speaker 1: to the customer. I think it's important to realize that
Speaker 1: the cost of your manicure may have a direct effect
Speaker 1: on someone's a income, but also health, Like for instance,
Speaker 1: in New York is easy to get a manicure for
Speaker 1: twelve dollars, but compare that to the national average, which
Speaker 1: is around twenty dollars for a manicure.
Speaker 2: And when you.
Speaker 1: Consider how much inflation has risen in recent years, while
Speaker 1: it may be up in some markets, the price of
Speaker 1: a manicure not increasing to meet the cost of living
Speaker 1: is kind of wild to me.
Speaker 4: I think the context around what it means to own
Speaker 4: a small business, the type of workplaces that are in like,
Speaker 4: sometimes those conversations aren't happening with the people in those spaces.
Speaker 4: It's like the article is written, but where is the
Speaker 4: community conversation that needs to happen to ensure that when
Speaker 4: the cost of my mani petty goes up a few dollars.
Speaker 4: I'm looking at the context of what needs to happen
Speaker 4: in the space to ensure the person that's doing my
Speaker 4: nails is safe and feels like they're protected.
Speaker 1: Today, in New York City, salon workers are no longer
Speaker 1: classified as tipped workers, and so now they are entitled
Speaker 1: to the fifteen dollars minimum wage. But unfortunately, in many cases,
Speaker 1: salon owners have responded to this new regulation by cutting
Speaker 1: workers hours so that now they're part time and their
Speaker 1: take on pay is not significantly higher. Right, And there
Speaker 1: was a bill passed by then Governor Cuomo requiring mask
Speaker 1: gloves and proper ventilation, as well as creating a task
Speaker 1: force to investigate wage that in salons. But in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, salon workers are still fighting for safe workplaces
Speaker 1: and living wages.
Speaker 4: So I think incredibly important as a customer for me
Speaker 4: to also be aware of, particularly in New York, all
Speaker 4: of these economic exchanges with different people that are in
Speaker 4: your community. It beyond like an economic exchange. It's like
Speaker 4: it is very intimate getting your nails zone. And I
Speaker 4: think one of the things that I learned through doing
Speaker 4: research on this film is also ensuring, like when I
Speaker 4: go to a nail salon to participate in active self care,
Speaker 4: that's also someone's job and like labor that they're putting
Speaker 4: into ensuring that I feel good, And I think as
Speaker 4: a customer, it's become important to me that those women
Speaker 4: are protected as well and are cared for and honor
Speaker 4: the labor that goes into a I.
Speaker 1: Think that's such a wonderful way to think about our
Speaker 1: community and ecosystem, not just I need this thing by
Speaker 1: it means necessary at the cheapest costs.
Speaker 3: Let's take a break and when we come back, we'll
Speaker 3: talk more about how nail salons connect different communities and cultures.
Speaker 2: All Right, we're back.
Speaker 3: If you've been paying attention to the news, you've seen
Speaker 3: that there has been a baby formula shortage, there's been
Speaker 3: a tampon shortage, and there also has been a semiconductor
Speaker 3: chip shortage. So we're gonna be talking all about that
Speaker 3: and its impact on the economy with Al Thompson next week.
Speaker 3: Let's get back to the lab.
Speaker 1: We're talking with filmmaker Crystal Kayiza all about nails, nail art,
Speaker 1: and the salon. We've learned a lot about the history
Speaker 1: of nail art, the ritual of going to the salon,
Speaker 1: and some of the health and safety issues facing the
Speaker 1: industry today. We wanted to talk more about the unique
Speaker 1: culture at the salon and how getting your nails done
Speaker 1: can really be a microcosm of larger community dynamics. Crystal
Speaker 1: told us how nail salons are unique because of how
Speaker 1: it brings the Asian community and the Black community together
Speaker 1: for artistic collaboration.
Speaker 4: When we first started the film, my producer Katie Lang
Speaker 4: is a journalist at Time Magazine as a beauty and
Speaker 4: culture writer, and she's Asian American, and it's like, where
Speaker 4: do we see women that look like us sharing space
Speaker 4: and like the.
Speaker 5: Media that we're consuming.
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, I'm going to the nail salon every two weeks.
Speaker 4: So it's like something that's so part of our cultural
Speaker 4: subconscious where these communities don't necessarily intersect or overlap, there's
Speaker 4: no cultural exchange, but it's like happening every day in
Speaker 4: the ways that we live our lives.
Speaker 1: That's a really important point. Media doesn't always reflect reality,
Speaker 1: and cultural exchange isn't always a formal process. It often
Speaker 1: happens in these much more subtle ways, in day to
Speaker 1: day interactions like at the nail salon. And these interactions,
Speaker 1: no matter how small, are important because it affects how
Speaker 1: people earn their livings and how people are able to
Speaker 1: live their lives alongside each other in a community.
Speaker 4: And I think in so many ways that's like the
Speaker 4: foundation of a community. So all of these things and
Speaker 4: these issues are interconnected, and nothing bothered me more when
Speaker 4: people are talking about nails and the like it's just nails,
Speaker 4: and it's like the nail salon you go to, the
Speaker 4: coffee shop you visit every morning on your way to work,
Speaker 4: the grocery store that you go to. All of those
Speaker 4: people have lives and the context of their small business
Speaker 4: has so much to do with what a community looks like,
Speaker 4: of how that community is served, of how that community
Speaker 4: changes and evolves as people are displaced, as gentrification happens,
Speaker 4: as economics change, Like the type of nail salon you
Speaker 4: see in a certain type of neighborhood changes, the type
Speaker 4: of corner store you see.
Speaker 5: It's not just getting your nails done.
Speaker 2: Oftentimes, I think that's so so important.
Speaker 1: I can remember when people were saying on the internet,
Speaker 1: when you see this type of font for the house number,
Speaker 1: gentrification is there. And it's like when you see a
Speaker 1: vegan donut shop.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it changes everything.
Speaker 1: Price is going up, a price is going And so
Speaker 1: we have to consider then these small interactions what they mean.
Speaker 1: That they are a small economic and cultural exchanges that
Speaker 1: shape the fabric of your community. The mail carrier, the
Speaker 1: nail tech, you choose, the nails of mind, you choose
Speaker 1: to go to the deli. All adds up and it's
Speaker 1: really meaningful.
Speaker 4: You can create such an intimacy with someone during a
Speaker 4: two hour window every two weeks, over years oftentimes. And
Speaker 4: I think that contributes so much to our culture and
Speaker 4: how we see people and how we see ourselves, and
Speaker 4: it says a lot. You know, when I'm walking around
Speaker 4: with my nail chips, I feel a certain way. That's
Speaker 4: I think, an important feeling and the power to make
Speaker 4: someone shift their day that much. I think it's something
Speaker 4: that's really important to recognize and not be dismissive as
Speaker 4: just part of beauty culture, but it is a part
Speaker 4: of our economic landscape, of our political culture. There are
Speaker 4: things that are particular to women and them folks.
Speaker 5: It's dismissed as frivolous.
Speaker 4: I'm constantly being judged for my nails, the length of
Speaker 4: my nails, how much money I invest in my nails.
Speaker 4: I just remember growing up and so many people would
Speaker 4: be like, you ip ten hours getting your hair braided,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, yeah, I did, and I feel great.
Speaker 2: You know, I love that.
Speaker 3: That's exactly how I feel when I'm getting my hair done,
Speaker 3: my nails done. The things that we find important that
Speaker 3: make us feel good as black women or black fems,
Speaker 3: people will look down on it and say Oh, well,
Speaker 3: how much does that cost? How much time does it take?
Speaker 3: You were sitting in that tear all day. I don't
Speaker 3: understand why me making myself feel good, just because it's
Speaker 3: different from how you make yourself feel good, why I
Speaker 3: have to be judged because of that or looked down upon.
Speaker 1: Yes, don't worry about how long it took for me
Speaker 1: to get these waste linked box braids.
Speaker 3: Hello, Okay, it's my money, it's my time, and I
Speaker 3: get to decide how I want to use it.
Speaker 1: And Crystal share basically the same sentiment, so be and
Speaker 1: judge for how she chose to spend her time or
Speaker 1: to invest in her own wellness.
Speaker 4: Growing up in a very particular culture around black beauty
Speaker 4: and seeing how things have changed dramatically now is to
Speaker 4: like what is seen as beautiful and remembering getting bullied
Speaker 4: for having certain hairstyles when I was an elementary schooler,
Speaker 4: you know, watching my mom being judged for decisions that
Speaker 4: she made about her body and the way that she looks.
Speaker 3: Now that some beauty rituals like getting your nails done,
Speaker 3: getting really long braides, things like that are recognized and
Speaker 3: valued in mainstream popular culture, it's really important for us
Speaker 3: to honor the experiences of black women and black fems
Speaker 3: who weren't always respected.
Speaker 1: And that goes right back to that conversation we had
Speaker 1: both when we talked about black music, when we talked
Speaker 1: about linguistics being these trendsetters, but paying a price for
Speaker 1: this being your culture, right, paying a price for doing
Speaker 1: these things, and now folks are being rewarded and getting
Speaker 1: more likes and getting more opportunities and seeing us fashion forward.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, we're talking about nails. It's really wild
Speaker 3: how we can look at Kylie Jenner or Kim Kardashian
Speaker 3: or some of these other white women who now are
Speaker 3: getting really intricate nail art, and I'm they're on covers
Speaker 3: of Vogue with those.
Speaker 1: Nails, when before you can't work at the bank with
Speaker 1: those nails exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: That's such a good point. It's just really crazy how
Speaker 3: things are changing. But as they change, no one is
Speaker 3: looking back and saying, you know, black women, black fems,
Speaker 3: they did this first.
Speaker 1: And not only did they do it first, they paid
Speaker 1: a price when they were doing it, exactly, and now
Speaker 1: we're making a profit on it. People have lost jobs,
Speaker 1: people have been assaulted, people have lost their lives through
Speaker 1: their self expression, and this is all a part of it.
Speaker 1: Getting your nails done, self care, like being able to
Speaker 1: be your authentic self, move about this world, speak the
Speaker 1: way that comes naturally to you, adorn yourself the way
Speaker 1: that makes you feel most powerful. People were losing their
Speaker 1: lives and now you see another race or another race
Speaker 1: gender combination doing that exact same thing and profiting off it.
Speaker 1: It's a tale as old as time, I mean, but
Speaker 1: we need to recognize it so that we can might
Speaker 1: drop from TT.
Speaker 4: It's been really interesting to watch the evolution of something
Speaker 4: that felt important to me when I was younger, but
Speaker 4: now has become, like I said before, this cultural phenomenon
Speaker 4: in terms of like people who now have access and
Speaker 4: understanding to that space. And I still think that there's
Speaker 4: this like cultural division of like the nail salon space
Speaker 4: is like featured and see you next time, for example,
Speaker 4: versus kind of like the growing kind of celebrity culture
Speaker 4: around mail art in that form of expression. And I
Speaker 4: think both of those things have a relationship to each other.
Speaker 4: And I think one thing that it was always really
Speaker 4: important is centering the perspective of black women and understanding
Speaker 4: that we're the ones sitting in the chairing and having
Speaker 4: this experience. As many things in black culture, the people
Speaker 4: that cultivated that originally, oftentimes are the last to be
Speaker 4: recognized and represented in the ways that it's manifested in
Speaker 4: popular culture. I think so many of these styles and
Speaker 4: cultural trends like are starting on the random blocks in Brooklyn,
Speaker 4: New York, or you know where I grew up in Oklahoma.
Speaker 4: I think understanding the cultural context and all of the
Speaker 4: things that have happened to get to the point where
Speaker 4: Lizze can have her nails set up on the met Gala,
Speaker 4: I think it's so incredible that that's where we are now.
Speaker 4: But I don't think just because this is where we've arrived,
Speaker 4: we should forget what it took to get here.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 1: It's sound for the one thing, and it only makes
Speaker 1: sense that our one thing this week really centers around
Speaker 1: our episode and it's our guest expert, Crystal Kayizas see
Speaker 1: you next time.
Speaker 3: It's such a great piece that really highlights everything that
Speaker 3: we were talking about in this lab, and it's so
Speaker 3: beautifully done. We highly recommend that all of you all
Speaker 3: check it out. There'll be a link to it in
Speaker 3: the episode description. And we'll also have a link in
Speaker 3: our show notes.
Speaker 2: All right, that's it for Lab seventy.
Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. Who's your favorite nil tech?
Speaker 1: What Instagram pages are you following? Where do you get
Speaker 1: your designed inspiration? Call us at two zero two five
Speaker 1: six seven seven zero two eight and tell us what
Speaker 1: you thought about this week's lab or give us an
Speaker 1: idea for a lab you think we should do this semester.
Speaker 1: So that's two zero two five six seven seven zero
Speaker 1: two eight.
Speaker 3: And don't forget that there is so much more to
Speaker 3: dig into on our website. There'll be a cheap key
Speaker 3: for today's lab, additional links and resources in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Plus you can sign up for our newsletter check it
Speaker 3: out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks to today's guest expert,
Speaker 3: Crystal Kaiza.
Speaker 1: You can find her film See You Next Time in
Speaker 1: the episode description right now just look and you can
Speaker 1: learn more about her work at Crystalcaiza dot com.
Speaker 3: And you can find us on Twitter and Instagram at
Speaker 3: Dope Lab Podcast.
Speaker 1: TT's on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore t Sho.
Speaker 3: And you can find Zakiya at Ze said. So, Dope
Speaker 3: Labs is a Spotify. Original production from Mega Owned Media Group.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Jenny Rattlet Mask and Lydia Smith of
Speaker 3: WaveRunner Studios. Our associate producer from Mega Own Media is
Speaker 3: Brianna Garrett. Editing and scoring on today's episode is by Griffin.
Speaker 2: Jennings, Mixing by Hannes Brown.
Speaker 3: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex
Speaker 3: Sugier from Spotify. Creative producer Miguel Contreras.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Shirley Ramos, Jess Borrison, Jasmine Afifi, Kamu Elolia,
Speaker 1: Till crack Key, and Brian Marquis. Executive producers from Mega
Speaker 1: Ohmedia Group are us T T Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley.