1 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Wide 2 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Open with Ashland Harris. 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: I have the wonderful. 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Iconic lets me and ourself, Shannon Beverage, welcome to the show. 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 2: Are you ready just to talk shit? 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 3: I'm ready to talk shit. Let's talk some shit. 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people have been waiting for 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: us to connect and talk, and whether it's on your show, 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: my show, now, I'm so I'm so happy to finally 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: get some FaceTime with you because I've been following you for. 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 3: Literally a long time, like along. 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: We've been like internet homies for like eighty six plus, 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: like probably like eight years. 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 3: A long time. People always tell me I look like 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: you cute. 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: Well I guess we're really cute. Well you're welcome, Thank you, 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: Thank you Internet. 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: So uh gosh, where to even start with you? 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: Because you were one of the ogs of all of this, 21 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: Like you started a YouTube channel before it was sexy. 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, when it was like kind of embarrassing. 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: No, you were like a baby. 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 3: I was a baby. I was like nineteen. Oh my god, 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 3: my digital footprint is something that should not be studied. 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 3: Just forget I was over here. But long. 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: I love how you've really taken. 28 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: Queer stories and elevated them and made it so visible, 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: because I do think that's the whole point of what 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: we do right where two queer women. 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: Our whole goal is to be able to live life. 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Through storytelling, which is a lot of times sharing our own. Yeah, 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: wish we would know anything about public scrutiny, would we not? 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 3: One thing? I've never heard your. 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: Name come up in the media. 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: I've never heard yours either. 37 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: I don't know what that's so. 38 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: Talk to me about like the beginning, I would love 39 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: to know why did you decide to take that plunge. 40 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: Were you always a really creative person, like you always 41 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: knew how to edit and put your life out there? 42 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 3: No, not really. I was like I was going to 43 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 3: college at Oklahoma and I was getting my finance degree, 44 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: so I was in a different headspace completely. I think 45 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: what really happened was do you know the whole story? 46 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: Hell? Yeah, I want to tell tell everyone. I mean, 47 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: everyone already knows who you are. 48 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: But I do think it's interesting to really dive into 49 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: that origin story of why you decided to dedicate your 50 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: life so openly to queer content and your story and 51 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: your dating life. 52 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 53 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: Okay, and by the way, cheersh you never like I'm 54 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: there in the morning, welcome to the show. 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 3: Good morning. Okay. So what happened was what happened essentially. 56 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: I'm from Dallas, Texas. I fell in love with a 57 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 3: girl in high school. Her parents put a baby monitor 58 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 3: in her bedroom and then outed me to my family, 59 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: my parents, and then I was like and it was 60 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 3: really bad. They were very unhappy. And after that, like 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: they did nightly Bible studies with their daughter and we 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 3: weren't allowed to hang out anymore, but we were still 63 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 3: we were like playing sports together, so we had to 64 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: hang out with each other. And then we had this 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 3: like really intense like love of like I love you, 66 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: but we're going to hell, and I love you, but 67 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: we're going It was just very intense. And I had 68 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 3: boyfriends the whole time, and I was like, you know what, 69 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 3: this isn't She's an exception. This was like a one 70 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: time thing. Like I'm not gay. I'm gonna go to Oklahoma. 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: I'll join a sorority, I'll get my finance degree, I'll 72 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: fall in love in a frat house. It's gonna My 73 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: story is it's written in the stars. Obviously, I get 74 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 3: to Oklahoma, I'm like, oh my god, I'm going i 75 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 3: live in a house with a hundred women. My sorority house. 76 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: One hundred girls live there. I'm like, this is not 77 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 3: making me any more straight. Nope. So then when I 78 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 3: was there, I started to really deal with the fact 79 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: that I was like, oh my god, I'm gay, and like, 80 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: what am I going to do about this? And now 81 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: I've surrounded myself with the most like heteronormative, very religious, 82 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 3: like like these people that I in my brain, I 83 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 3: was like, they're gonna hate me. They will hate me 84 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 3: when they know me, and so I can't be gay 85 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 3: and I have to find someone who else who is 86 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 3: gay so I can talk to them about it. And 87 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 3: then I found the Internet. Like obviously I knew of 88 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 3: the internet, but I watched a YouTube video of this 89 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 3: girl and she was like, all the lesbians are on Tumblr, 90 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 3: and I was like, what's Tumblr? So I downloaded Tumblr 91 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 3: and kind of the rest is history. And it was 92 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 3: always for me. The motivation wasn't necessarily like at the 93 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: beginning queer storytelling. It was like I was consuming the 94 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 3: queer stories like I needed them myself. And then as 95 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 3: I was like amassing this little following on Tumblr, I 96 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 3: obviously started sharing my own because I knew how much 97 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: it helped me to like hear other people's so like 98 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 3: from the jump, my online like history has been so 99 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: open and like so vulnerable, Like you can find my 100 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: coming out letter I wrote to my dad on my Tumblr. 101 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: I was just like, and everyone should know this, and 102 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: like the screenshots of my sister's boyfriend at the time 103 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 3: when I came out to him on Tumblr, like I 104 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 3: was just sharing everything because I was like, this helped 105 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 3: me so much when I was seeing other people do it, 106 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 3: so I'm going to do it to help other people. 107 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 3: Like I was just like I felt so lonely, and 108 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: I was like, how can I make myself feel less lonely? 109 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 3: Like I have to talk to other people who are 110 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 3: like me. And then that just it like all kind 111 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 3: of the one thing like I am really proud about 112 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: my like social media stuff is it all happened very organically, 113 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: like nothing. I never forced something I wasn't like trying 114 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: to I don't know, be something I'm not like I'm 115 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: not when like the rise of the influencer really became 116 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 3: what it is now, and I would go to these 117 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 3: parties with these people who love to take pictures of them, 118 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: like they love to take videos, and they're like pulling 119 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: up TikTok and which is very impressive and there's no 120 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 3: shade to that. I'm like, but that's not I'm not 121 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 3: that type of influencer. Like I was in my room 122 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: in my college dorm, like taking like videos whispering to 123 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 3: the camera because my sorority sisters were gonna hear yeah, 124 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: you know. And anyway, all of it has just like 125 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 3: happened sort of organically over time. And then like now 126 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: having my podcasts, I think I just again I felt 127 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 3: like I told my story. I told all of it, 128 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 3: like really the stuff I think was going to help. 129 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 3: I was sick of talking about myself, and so with 130 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: the podcast, I'm like I can still kind of share 131 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 3: my journey as I'm growing and learning and whatever, hopefully 132 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: growing Jesus, but also give a mic to someone else 133 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: and have a story told that like I haven't heard, 134 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 3: because I feel like that's so important. 135 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,239 Speaker 1: I always ask this question at the beginning of the show, 136 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: and you know, being wide open you played sports, it's 137 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: really seizing the moment, separating yourself from the pack, like 138 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: putting your self in a position to really execute on 139 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: the other on the other side of wide open, it's 140 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: really just being vulnerable and peeling back the layers and 141 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: unraveling all of these things in life that are so 142 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: hard but are so important to get us where we 143 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: are totally. And I think there is a point in 144 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: all of our lives that like split us wide open, 145 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: that change everything. Yeah, for sure, what was that moment 146 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: in your life that really split you wide open? 147 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: It had to be the night with the baby monitor, 148 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: Like that had to be the thing. I mean, it 149 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 3: was that it was the first night that that girl 150 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: texted me and told me she liked me, has more 151 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: than a friend, because I think I already knew I 152 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 3: was queer, and I was like, I just will never 153 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: I'll just go my whole life and I'll never look 154 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: at it. I'll just pretend like it's not there. And 155 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 3: I think the second that that happened, it like changed 156 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: the whole trajectory of my life because I was like, 157 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 3: I can't now that I know what it feels like 158 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: to be myself, even alone in a room with one person, Like, 159 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: how am I gonna? How am I going to go 160 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: back to never feeling those feelings again. I think it's 161 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: given me the empathy to understand, like why coming out 162 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 3: and that process is so fucking hard, because mine was 163 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: so hard, Like it started so hard that I can 164 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: get that, and I'm like, oh my god, it was 165 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 3: so hard for me. 166 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: And what was that like to be outed. 167 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: At a time when you were discovering yourself and you 168 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: weren't ready to have that conversation. 169 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 3: I will say I am so lucky because my parents 170 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 3: handled it a lot better than her parents, And not 171 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 3: that they did, not that they were perfect about it, 172 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: but they they didn't make me feel like, oh my god, 173 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: they'll never love me if this is the truth about me. 174 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: But I think the thing I felt most was ashamed, 175 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,239 Speaker 3: Like I was really embarrassed, like really embarrassed when you're sixteen, 176 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: even even what your parents know, you kissed a boy 177 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: let alone, and I didn't know what they really knew happened. 178 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 3: We didn't know right away that it was a baby monitor. 179 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 3: We just knew that they knew something. And then it 180 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: was like a week or two later she was cleaning 181 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: her room and she found a baby monitor hidden in 182 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: the corner of her room. So yeah, I think like 183 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: the biggest thing was shame, and I think that's something 184 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 3: I'm still like work through to this day, which I'm like, yeah, 185 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: it affects me. It affects me in like my sex life, 186 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 3: it affects me in my romantic partnerships, it affects me. 187 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 3: Like I'm so I can be so easily embarrassed because 188 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: all stems from like all of that from the beginning. 189 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that was the biggest thing because 190 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 3: I obviously you want to say those words to someone 191 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: when you know that you know them. And I didn't know. 192 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: I didn't know what was going on, Like I was 193 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: still figuring it out and also stuffing it down. And 194 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: then to have your parents be like you're not gay, 195 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: are you? Like I have a boyfriend? What are you 196 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 3: talking about? Oh? 197 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: I was doing the same thing college. I was like, oh, 198 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: I have this captain of the soccer team. And I 199 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: was like, what all these soccer girls are so cute? Yep, 200 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: And I was like, hey, roommate, can I cuddle in 201 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: your bed? 202 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah. I had many a beard. 203 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: So like poor guys that my grandmother always said this 204 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: to me, bless, I had like a high school sweetheart 205 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: that I knew in first grade and we dated for 206 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: so long through elementary school, through middle school, all four 207 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: years of high school. And I came out to my 208 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: grandma and she was. 209 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: Like, what did that boy do to you? Oh my 210 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: good grandma. 211 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: Stop, Like it's just the best. 212 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way. I'm for little do you know. 213 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: I've just been hiding it for a long time. I 214 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: knew I moved differently, and I was like, Okay, I 215 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: don't really like dig this homeboy, but like, this is 216 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: what I'm told to do. But I felt so emotionally 217 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: safe with women. I didn't I didn't quite understand where 218 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: I kind of fit. Yeah, And no one spoke about 219 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: it to me. It was a very hush hush thing. 220 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: So I was like, well, fuck, I'm just gonna keep 221 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: playing soccer and shut my mouth and date these ding 222 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: dongs and until. 223 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: My fucking life. I kissed one girl and I was like, bye, yep, 224 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: that's it. 225 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: No. Literally, when I kissed the girl for the first time, 226 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, this is why you 227 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 3: guys like this. I get it. I could do that again. 228 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: I can, I can really get down with it. Yeah, 229 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: there's no going back because that was fun. I used 230 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: to kiss my college boyfriend with my eyes open. Oh 231 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: h is that a little fun fact? Does everyone know that? 232 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 3: I don't know if I've said that. I've probably said 233 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: that before. But I had to drink a lot to 234 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: want to kiss him, and so then I felt like 235 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: if I didn't keep my eyes open, I would get dizzy. 236 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: It was like, bad, that's pretty bad. It was so 237 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 3: And it was in a frat house. 238 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: Hey, I love that. 239 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: Put me in a frat or put me in a sorority, 240 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: I would have been lethal. 241 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 2: Oh my god, that would have been a fucking nightmare 242 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: for me. 243 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 3: I and I nothing ever happened with you, my sorority sisters. 244 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 3: I was so parannoyed. 245 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: Were you out? 246 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: Then? 247 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: Did every so? You were only outed here? 248 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: I outed to my mom and my dad, and then 249 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 3: I went to college and I didn't tell anyone. And 250 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 3: then yeah, and then I told my parents and my 251 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 3: sister my freshman year summer that I was I was like, 252 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 3: remember that whole situation that happened. Yeah, I'm definitely gay. 253 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: So then I went back to college, though, and I 254 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 3: just stayed in the closet, didn't tell anyone. My senior year, 255 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 3: I started kind of getting like people started figuring it out, 256 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: and like I was telling people, but and then it 257 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 3: spread and then you know, you go to a party 258 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 3: one night and some boy who has a crush on 259 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 3: he was like, I heard you're a dyke. Now I'm like, oh, 260 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: not the G word, like awesome, So people are talking 261 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 3: about it. So it like again kind of got outed, 262 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 3: but it was like my own doing. I was just 263 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 3: kind of like, this is stupid. I don't care as 264 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 3: much anymore. But yeah, it was like a whole process. 265 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: I wasn't really like fully out of the closet until 266 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 3: I graduated college. Wow, yep, because I had like two instagrams. 267 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 3: I had my gay Instagram and I had my Oklahoma Instagram, 268 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 3: And I was amassing a following on Instagram that I 269 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 3: just had a private but I had. I must have 270 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 3: had like ten thousand followers. And this was twenty fourteen 271 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 3: I graduated college. Yeah, and so then I had this 272 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 3: other one where all my college friends followed me. And 273 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: then like a week or two after I graduated, I 274 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: posted on my straight Instagram and said, this is hious. 275 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 3: Two instagrams is like one too many. And if you 276 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 3: guys want to you can follow me on this account. 277 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: I'm gay. And then I posted a coming out video 278 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 3: that was on YouTube to like all of my Oklahoma people, 279 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 3: and I'm like, take it or leave it. 280 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 2: Here we go. We're about to really strap in for 281 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: this one. 282 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, really strapped in. Yeah you often? 283 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: I love this. Yeah, so you uh you finally come out. 284 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: I guess what we're both kind of known for now 285 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: is really turning these straight women? 286 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I guess it's a girl. 287 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: And I liked it, Like, should we talk about that? 288 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I would know nothing about kiss seen or 289 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: dating a girl who's never been. 290 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: With a girl before. Yeah, we could definitely talk about that. 291 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: I think it's it's happened to me less times than 292 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 3: like it seems like it's happened to me a lot 293 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: of times. But it's happened a few a couple of times. 294 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 3: But why do you think that happens to you? 295 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: I Okay, this is the weirdest fucking part. I swear 296 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: on my life and so thinks this is so wild. 297 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: I get hit on by more men. No, I swear 298 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: to God, I get hit on by more men than women. 299 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: It is the fucking weirdest thing in the world. And 300 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. If it's like this weird, I can 301 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: turn her type of shit. I don't know what it is, 302 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: but I get hit on way more. Which straight men. 303 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 3: Well, you're also like kind of intimidating, and I think 304 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 3: men like that too. 305 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: Is it the challenge the chase? 306 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, but also men like don't believe that women who 307 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 3: wear makeup are gay, Like you have makeup on your 308 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 3: available to a. 309 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: Band, Honey, that's an uphild out on top. 310 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: It's not gonna happen. But they can try. This is 311 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 3: a flood zone. Any they could try. Yeah, I don't know. 312 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 3: My first girlfriend was like my first real girl, like 313 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 3: true girlfriend was a lesbian. There's an element to me 314 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 3: dating women who haven't dated women before that I truly 315 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 3: believe it stems from they don't know who I am, 316 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 3: Like they don't have this idea of who I am, 317 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: like a preconceived like notion or something, because I have 318 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 3: been online for so long, I have been posting for 319 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: so long. And I'm not saying every lesbian in the 320 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: United States of America knows who I am, but like, 321 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 3: there isn't an element of feeling known by my community 322 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 3: that is like icky, like I don't want you to 323 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: know the name of my first girlfriend, Like I don't 324 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: want you to like know. 325 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: That songs out there there's no going back. People are 326 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: right love songs about you and heartbreak. You are a heartbreaker. 327 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to I swear no, I I don't know. 328 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think there's that. I think also 329 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: like women who look like me and you, we are 330 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 3: writing this like fine line of there is something masculine 331 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 3: about us, that there is something really feminine about us, 332 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: and I think that that's intriguing to women, like especially 333 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 3: women who know they are queer, Like I've never by 334 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 3: the way, on the record, I have never dated a 335 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 3: straight woman. Straight women don't date women. Okay, that doesn't happen. 336 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: Doesn't happen. We have to get out of talking like that. 337 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 3: It is so invalidating to women, Like any woman who's like, 338 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 3: oh you're her first girlfriend. Ooh she's straight. Oh she's 339 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 3: gonna go back to men, Like are we looking at 340 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 3: men right now? Like women want to date women, and 341 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 3: women not straight women. They're not straight women. Street women 342 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 3: date men. 343 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: This is wide open and I'm your host. Ashlyn Harris 344 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: we'll be right back. 345 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: We are so expected as women to fit into a 346 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 3: patriarchy and it is so much easier to do that 347 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 3: than as like a bisexual woman, to put yourself out 348 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: there and try something different, Like it is so scary, 349 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 3: I if I say this, and it's terrible, but coming 350 00:17:58,359 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: from where I came from and the time that I 351 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: grew up, if I were bisexual, I would be married 352 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 3: to a man right now, Like that would have been 353 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 3: the trajectory of my life. Like I am out and 354 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 3: doing all these things because there was this is I 355 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: was going to die, like I was going to be 356 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 3: a lesbian or I was going to die. That was 357 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 3: it for me. And I see, and it makes so 358 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 3: much sense why there are so many women coming out 359 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: later in life. Yes, because why And we feed this 360 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 3: storyline to people that like being queer is harder and 361 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 3: it's like so people are like, well, that would be 362 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 3: a harder life. It's not a harder life. It's a 363 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 3: beautiful life. 364 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: It's a beautiful life. 365 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 3: There are new complications, there are different things you have 366 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 3: to that's life in general. Yeah, but life is life. 367 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 3: But I'm like, it's just there are so many more 368 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 3: queer women and women are just so expected to stay 369 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 3: in one lane and then we make it this whole 370 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 3: thing when someone steps out of it, and it's scary. 371 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 3: And I would say that some of the reactions that 372 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 3: some of these women who were were straight for most 373 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 3: of their life and then come out later life would 374 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: be scary to like see as another straight straight woman 375 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 3: to want to come out, like yeah, they're scrutinized for whatever. 376 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 2: You know what I mean, I'm living it. I live 377 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 2: I y you know, my. 378 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 3: Partner on a soapbox Like no, it's. 379 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: It's interesting, right, So I say this all the time. 380 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: I have such incredible conversations with like suburban moms who 381 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,239 Speaker 1: live this like cute, little white picked fence life with 382 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: this husband who works, and I get I have some 383 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: like really good off the cuff out and about conversation 384 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: with with women who were like I like, they're not 385 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: willing to leave that life for the fear of which 386 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: the other side would bring, and they stay in this 387 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: space of complacency where they're always wishing for something different, 388 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: but stay in their circumstance, and I just like that 389 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: breaks my heart, Like what the fuck have we been 390 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: conditioning these poor fucking women to. 391 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 3: Believe well, and it's just a different You are restructuring 392 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 3: a life that you saw for yourself. Yes, and that 393 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 3: is very normal, and that is very like when that's 394 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 3: all that you see everywhere, it's all that you've seen 395 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 3: in your life, it's all that your friends have done, 396 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 3: it's all. It's every movie you've watched, it's every TV 397 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: show you see, it's every it's everywhere, it's everything. It's 398 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: all the time to do the work to deconstruct that. 399 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 3: It takes time and it takes a lot of effort. 400 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 3: And I feel for any person who goes through that 401 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 3: kind of situation, and like even for me being a 402 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 3: lesbian for as long as I have been, Like the 403 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 3: idea of making like having kids and however I'm going 404 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: to do that is extremely intimidating to me, and like 405 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 3: I feel there are things I have not unpacked about 406 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 3: how I feel about having children or like being a 407 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: mom in general. I think people take it a little 408 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 3: too lightly because I'm like, this is a very it's 409 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,719 Speaker 3: this huge, huge thing to be a mother. So Mike, 410 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 3: I will think about it until I feel so confident 411 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 3: that I'm like, this is what I can do and 412 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 3: how I can do it and whatever. 413 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if people are ever really ready. I 414 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: don't think life will ever prepare you for how hard 415 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: it is to be a mom yep. And the demands 416 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: and the shit you place on yourself based on your 417 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: own trauma from childhood. It is fucking wild. It's the 418 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: hardest thing I've ever done. And I have adopted two children. 419 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: I don't know any different, but those are my fucking babies. 420 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: And I guess I don't know what it's like to 421 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: have a baby or a biological child, but like in 422 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: my mind and the way I show up, those babies 423 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: are mine. 424 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 2: I love that because it is showing. 425 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: Our community that it doesn't have to look one way. 426 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it definitely doesn't, but it also should be 427 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 3: your decision and you should do what you can do 428 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 3: and show up the way you can show up, you know, because. 429 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 2: It's really interesting the cultural. 430 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: Ideals that people place on us, Like I'll be really 431 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: honest with you, COVID hit and I lived in Florida 432 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: and a lot of adoption agencies are faith based and 433 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: a lot of my queer friends were saying, we've been 434 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,479 Speaker 1: on this list for three fucking years and it is 435 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: painful and it is hard and it is shitty to 436 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: live in a place like this where. 437 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: We are not the first choice. And I was like panicked. 438 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: I was like, what the fuck does that mean? 439 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: Is this going to be impossible for me based on 440 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: living in Florida yep and being a queer mom? And 441 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: I can't I don't have the same excess, Like, am 442 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: I not going to be able to do this just 443 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: based on my sexuality? 444 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 2: I fucking matched in three weeks. 445 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: No way. 446 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: I was like, well, that Olympics is shot. 447 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 2: It was wild. That's also what people don't. 448 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: Talk about is a lot of people want a certain 449 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: type of child. 450 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 2: I was not. 451 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: My ex wife and I we were not one of 452 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: those people. I was like, I feel dirty in a 453 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: way trying to pick a designer baby. I had no 454 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: idea what life was going to give me. And holy shit, 455 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: am I forever grateful to have those babies in my 456 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: life in the way that. 457 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 2: You know it happened? 458 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really hard, like circumstances, and they're the 459 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: greatest gift that I've ever had, and I'm so lucky 460 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: and I have to always share that because I do 461 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: think that we don't get enough. 462 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 3: We have no representation. We have so little representation in 463 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 3: all the ways I don't know, like lesbian moms with 464 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 3: like twenty year old kids, like I don't know, I 465 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 3: don't see I don't know them, I don't see it. 466 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, is it so crazy to think 467 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 3: that someone would have a hard time unpacking something they've 468 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: never seen before. I feel that I don't have role models, 469 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 3: like very many role models that I look to, and 470 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: I'm like, that's the life that I am going to live, 471 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 3: and it's forget about kids. Which don't forget about kids. 472 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 3: We love the kids. But like weddings, I'm like, I 473 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 3: don't really have that many weddings that I've seen that 474 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 3: are lesbian weddings. And I'm like, and that girl would 475 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 3: be me, and that girl will be my wife. 476 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: Like I watch these. 477 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 3: Weddings and I'm like, it's not gonna be my wedding. 478 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 3: What street person could say that, what straight person does 479 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 3: not have a dream wedding that they're like, this is 480 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 3: what my wedding to look like, this is the I 481 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 3: love this movie and this wedding and this movie, and 482 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 3: I like this reception that I've seen on Instagram, and 483 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 3: I like this wedding dress that I've seen in Vogue 484 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: and I've seen like they ever it's everywhere for them, 485 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 3: which no good for you? For you. I'm not mad 486 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 3: or jealous, and I love street people, but no, but 487 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 3: we don't have that. No, we don't have that. And 488 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 3: it's like it give people a little bit of grace 489 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 3: when they are trying to unpack all of that with 490 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 3: no one to see and see themselves in. 491 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: Let's dive into that though, because I do think that's 492 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: a good segue the scrutiny, the pressure of being a 493 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: public facing person who has lived. 494 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 2: Out relations both of us, Yeah, have lived out a 495 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: lot of our shit. How does that? How has that 496 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 2: been for you? 497 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 3: Yes? It is for sure hard. And I also take 498 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 3: responsibility for putting myself in that position because I did 499 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 3: it to myself in so many ways. I think the 500 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 3: thing for me too at this point is like it's 501 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: very unhealthy because I'm having like a hard time kind 502 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 3: of distinguishing my own reality and like my own feelings 503 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 3: and processing my own feelings and processing my own breakup 504 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 3: and not just processing like a public's reaction to it, 505 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 3: like and seeing and hearing their voices and like actually 506 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 3: trusting my own and like reminding myself like I was 507 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 3: in this relationship. I know what this relationship was. I know, 508 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 3: like and that means I'm talking about like all everything right, 509 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 3: but I don't know. I mean, I think for a 510 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 3: while there was like an embarrassment I was feeling where 511 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh God, I never go someone again. They're 512 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 3: gonna be like, damn it, Channon. But then I was like, 513 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 3: you know what, I'm who can like, I mean, I 514 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 3: care who cares if I'm embarrassed? Yeah? Who cares? If 515 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 3: my relationships didn't work out in the grand scheme of things, 516 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 3: Like I love I'm such a lover. I could do 517 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 3: a little less. 518 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 2: That's so good. 519 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: But I I feel you when you say that. 520 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 3: I love love like I love it, and I love 521 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 3: this community so much, And I know and I'm like, 522 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 3: we have so little representation. And there have been different 523 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 3: motivations behind each relationship I've had and how public or 524 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 3: private they've been. Because every single relationship I've had, believe 525 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: it or not, even though I was a part of, 526 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 3: all of them were different. They were each very unique 527 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 3: to themselves. But at the very end of the day, 528 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 3: there is an element that I'm always attached to, which 529 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 3: is like creating representation. But I am now also working 530 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 3: through like and talking to my manager, my team and 531 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 3: PEP and being like, I don't have to be all 532 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 3: representation and I can't be all representation. I am also 533 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 3: just this one little white girl from Texas, Like, there 534 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 3: are so many stories that are so much more unique 535 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 3: and interesting and need to be heard. And believe it 536 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 3: or not, there's a lot more like interesting things about 537 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 3: me other than my love life. Yeah, exactly so, and 538 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 3: I talk about them all the time. I really am 539 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 3: talking about my life. But this has become such a 540 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 3: obviously like an interesting thing that's happened, Like who's done this? Me? You? Yeah? 541 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: Do you keep anything just for yourself? Yeah for sure, Yeah, 542 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: like you definitely have. That's been my biggest learning lesson 543 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: is setting boundaries with like my my new level of 544 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: dating someone who's very in the fucking public eye. Holy shit, 545 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: that was like whiplash when that all became public. My 546 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: partner now is just like holy shit, Like people just 547 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 1: I thought entertainment was wild. The women's soccer community is 548 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: fucking bananas, Like they just won't they won't stop, and 549 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: it heavily is the queer community. We live life, you know, 550 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: on this fucking pedestal that we can't make mistakes, we're 551 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: not allowed to miss and this is the human experience. 552 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: Like we're not going to always get it right, but 553 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: we can't keep getting punished for it, and we can't 554 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: keep having moments of real heartache continue to carry into 555 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: our new relationships. And I'm curious for you because I 556 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: know this is a really hard thing for us, having 557 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: such a pub relationship with a public figure and songs 558 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: are made up about your happiness. And let's all be 559 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: very clear, Like I fucking love Fletcher, like I love 560 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: both of y'all. 561 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: We've been homies, yeah for a long time. 562 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: So like I, I can understand her side of healing 563 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: because she was so in love and maybe not necessarily 564 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: always we are not in those moments equipped with the 565 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: right tools to navigate the challenges we're faced. Does that 566 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: still carry that breakup still carry into every single one 567 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: of your relationships because people are front row sing the 568 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: fucking lyrics to your heartbreak, Like I can imagine it's 569 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,959 Speaker 1: hard to escape without having really serious boundary. 570 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 2: What is that like for you? 571 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:09,479 Speaker 3: Great question? Yes, I feel I feel that relationship has 572 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 3: been romanticized heavily, heavily, very heavily. Yes, I think comparison 573 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 3: is the thief of joy. And I think if some 574 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 3: if the Internet or a fan base or a group 575 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 3: of people like like something so much and loved something 576 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 3: so much, and it's now comparing you to this thing, 577 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 3: it will it will steal some joy. I am past 578 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 3: that relationship and that relationship is over, like and I 579 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 3: am but like it is over for me. It is 580 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 3: not over for everyone. And that means the Internet not 581 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 3: my ex you know. So anytime I talk about it, 582 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: then it perpetuates it more. And I'm like, anytime I'm 583 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 3: like it is over, people are like, but did you 584 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 3: see she took a sip of the beer right before 585 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 3: She's like, I can't win. Like I feel like I 586 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 3: doesn't matter how much I say it, And like the 587 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 3: end of the relationship was so public and then we 588 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 3: did kind of let people in and they saw these 589 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 3: like glimpses. I mean, I've talked about it before, but 590 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 3: like we packaged it up in the prettiest beau, in 591 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 3: the prettiest, loveliest beau, and she wrote wonderful, beautiful songs 592 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 3: about it that make it sound so pretty, and I'm like, 593 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 3: and in so many ways it was so pretty, but 594 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 3: we are also we were young, and we are done 595 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 3: and it is done, Like that story is done, and 596 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 3: now we have a friendship of sorts, where a healthy 597 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 3: type of friendship. I'm like, we're not hanging out. I 598 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 3: don't have I'm not like a lesbian who's gonna be 599 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 3: best friends with my ex girlfriends. I think that's so 600 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 3: complicated and weird. 601 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, Shannon, you end up coming on fucking 602 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: podcasts with them. 603 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: I'm like, how well teach me your ways? 604 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: No, because don't think for a second, I didn't tune 605 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: into that podcast when the Putcher came on. And then 606 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, you did it your last relationship. You guys 607 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: literally broke up on you announced it on a podcast 608 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: and I'm like, how do you sit there? 609 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 3: So I have to stop sitting there? 610 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 2: You really just sit down? 611 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: You're like, you know what, I'm gonna just fucking air 612 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: it all out here so people stop wondering. Like people 613 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: would fall out of their skin if I had my 614 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: ex wife on this show. 615 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 3: Can you imagine they would? You know the thing with 616 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 3: Carrie and doing the podcast that truly was like a 617 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 3: business decision. Like I was like, we truly did kind 618 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,239 Speaker 3: of bury the hatchet. And then I was launching this 619 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 3: podcast and like it really was, I was like, this 620 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 3: will perform well, and I do. I also do want 621 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 3: to just like bury that. I want everyone to see 622 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 3: like this is done. We are fine. But I'm an idiot, so. 623 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 2: No, you're not. 624 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 3: No. Like I, I make these decisions and in the 625 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 3: time when I do them, I think it's like, okay, 626 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 3: like I can this is I'd can justify this. And 627 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 3: then when I look back on some of the things 628 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 3: I've done, and I won't get into specifics of what 629 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 3: those things are, but some things I'm like, why did 630 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 3: you do that? Girl? Why did you do that? Girl? 631 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 3: You are a dumb, dumb girl, and stop it. 632 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: I will say this though. You nail it when you 633 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: say it's a business. 634 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 3: Yeah too. 635 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 2: And I don't think people get that. 636 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 3: It's just just black and white. There's there were, there 637 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 3: were many motivations. Just business was one of them, and 638 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 3: it was yeah, I don't know. I also, I genuinely 639 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 3: in my stupid girl brain, was like when they see 640 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 3: that we are we forgive each other and we're moving on, 641 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 3: they will too move on. No, no, dumb girl, that's 642 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 3: not how that works. So is it good learn I'm 643 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 3: learning a lot all the time and clearly not learning 644 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 3: fast enough sometimes. And I feel, I feel some of 645 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 3: the things I've done have like hurt people really deeply 646 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 3: in ways that I regret so much, and I like, 647 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 3: I am trying to figure out the contribution of my 648 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 3: actions to people's pain and like learn from that. So 649 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 3: it's tough, Like it's tough. 650 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: It's tough to live out your failures publicly, Shannon, That's 651 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: what it like comes down to, is we are all human, truthfully. 652 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 3: And also but I will say, I don't know. I 653 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 3: don't think you can waste love. Like I don't feel 654 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 3: like I feel like I went through breakups, my relationships 655 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 3: didn't work. They don't all feel like failure, you know. 656 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 3: I'm like, it just feels like life. And of course 657 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 3: they're like, of course you want of course you want 658 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 3: every person that you date to be the person that 659 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 3: you marry. And some kind of like there's a part 660 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 3: of you that that's there's an end goal that you 661 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 3: hope will happen, and when it doesn't happen, like there's heartbreak. 662 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 3: But I'm like, did it? Is it failure or is 663 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 3: it just life? I have to believe that I'm a 664 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 3: good person, and I need to figure out how I 665 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 3: can make myself believe that just alone, Like, and if 666 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 3: I don't, then I think I'm going to keep making 667 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 3: the same mistakes. And what is the definition of insanity? 668 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 2: Doing the same thing over and over and over again. 669 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 3: And expecting a different result. Yeah, so I'm insane. 670 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 2: No, you're not. 671 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 3: No, but I I have a lot of I have 672 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 3: a lot of growing up to do, and I have 673 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 3: a lot of work to do on myself as a person, 674 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 3: and I yeah, I am aware of that, and I 675 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 3: am not I'm not, I know, I'm I don't know. 676 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 3: I also feel like there's a lot of people throwing 677 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 3: stones from glass houses all the time, Like, I don't 678 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 3: know anything about your life, So what have you done? 679 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 3: You know, stranger on the internet. I'm sure you are 680 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 3: also not perfect. I have to remind myself of that often. 681 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 3: But yeah, I think I am really trying to just 682 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 3: sit with myself, even though that is obviously like uncomfortable, 683 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 3: you know, Yeah, but. 684 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 2: But it's the truth with you. Yeah, it totally begins 685 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 2: with you. 686 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 3: A lot's happened in the last ten years that I'm like, girl, 687 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 3: take a nap, please. 688 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 2: I can't. You are funny. Holy shit, I'll tell you what. 689 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: I hate that I can sit in this space and 690 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: feel your shame, and I hope that you can sit 691 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: in this space and feel my joy. 692 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 3: Oh that's so sweet. 693 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,959 Speaker 1: Like, I hope you know that you're meant for great things. Yeah, 694 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: I do how you're deserving of it, but. 695 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 3: I believe I will believe that soon. 696 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: It's a process, like heartbreak is a process. There's this 697 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: level of unraveling that is so fucking uncomfortable. 698 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 3: Recently, like I had someone I had someone like say 699 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 3: something about my character that like really affected me, and 700 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. And I was like, 701 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 3: oh my god, it's kind I've talked about this before 702 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 3: about the internet too, and I'm like, there are comments 703 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 3: on the Internet that bother me because there's obviously some 704 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: truth to it. And I'm like, because the ones that 705 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 3: don't bother me, like don't affect me at all. You know, 706 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 3: when someone's like you you're gay, I'm like again, but 707 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 3: when someone says something and I'm not going to tell 708 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 3: you what it is because I know you will use 709 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 3: it against me. But when someone says something and I'm like, ah, 710 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh shit, what is it that hurts so 711 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 3: bad about that? Then like how can I fix it? 712 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 3: Like how can I believe that I how can I 713 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 3: believe that that is not about me? Because like there 714 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 3: is a part of me that knows that some of 715 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 3: these comments. I'm like, I know that that is not true. 716 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,439 Speaker 3: I know that this is a projected projection of someone else. 717 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 3: But I'm like, but why don't I feel that in 718 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 3: my soul? Like why don't I feel it in my bones? 719 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 3: You know? Like like someone commented saying, like you live 720 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 3: a sad life, and in my core, the deepest part 721 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 3: of my body, I was like, no, I don't. I 722 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 3: have a happy life, Like I have a joyful life. 723 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 3: I have an amazing family, I have amazing friends. I 724 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 3: love my job. I'm so lucky to do what I do, 725 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 3: like I have a cool car, or like I can 726 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 3: go through all the things that I'm like, no, I don't. 727 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 3: But I'm like there are other things that someone will 728 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 3: say about me and I'm like, oh my god, am I. 729 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 2: Do you find healing? 730 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: And your podcast and you show x'es and outs because 731 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: I will say I have found so much healing and 732 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 1: having beautiful conversations like this. 733 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred, one hundred percent. And also it is 734 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 3: such a gift to speak to people who I think 735 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 3: the coolest thing about being gay or queer at all 736 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 3: is that you can meet any other queer person and 737 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 3: they could have they could grow up, they could be 738 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 3: from a different country, they could speak a different language, 739 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 3: they could have different religion, they could have different kinds 740 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 3: of parents, different family dynamic, they could have everything could 741 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 3: be different, and you have something so like beautiful in 742 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 3: your core that you can relate to each other on. Yeah, 743 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 3: And it's been such a gift to be able to 744 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 3: sit down and talk to people who have a different story, 745 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 3: a different life, a different different ages, and like feel 746 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 3: so connected to them about this one thing and also 747 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 3: learn something I've never learned about because I think a 748 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 3: huge issue in like the lesbian community, I don't know 749 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 3: what your experience is, but like the woli woo community is, 750 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 3: it's very it can become very siloed, and like its 751 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 3: very easy to find yourself and friend groups that are 752 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 3: all white lesbians who kind of look like you, who 753 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 3: are dating people that kind of look like the people 754 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 3: you're dating, like it happens and it and obviously there's 755 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 3: so much I have so much gratitude for those friends 756 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 3: that I've made in like those friend groups that I've had, 757 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 3: but they're also like huge echo chambers of just like 758 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 3: we all have the same experience, Like how many of 759 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 3: us were in a sorority raise your hand? Eight people? Okay, 760 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 3: not that relatable and not even that cool to talk about, 761 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 3: you know when you when you're thirty two, I'm like, 762 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 3: I don't really need to talk about my sorority days 763 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 3: as much anymore, you know. So it's just been such 764 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 3: a gift to talk to people who look different than me, 765 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 3: hang out with different people than me, and it's like 766 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 3: made me so hungry for different kinds of queer friendships too, 767 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 3: And I'm like, I want to be in different spaces, 768 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 3: I want to be around different types of people, I 769 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 3: want to hear different stories. So that's been huge gift. 770 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris. 771 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. What's next for you? 772 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: Like what. 773 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 2: Brings Shannon Joy? 774 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 3: I talk a lot on my platform about this parasocial 775 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 3: relationship and like people thinking I'm a character, but to 776 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 3: be fair, it's a double edged sword. And I also 777 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 3: sometimes forget that people that are following me are real people, 778 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 3: Like I forget for every one hundred people who comment, 779 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 3: there are thousands of people who enjoy my content and 780 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 3: just from afar like they don't they're not so engaged 781 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 3: in it. But like, I'm so excited to see those 782 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 3: people in real life and be like, oh my god, 783 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 3: you're real and you actually do like me, and like 784 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 3: this is some of my fears are not true and 785 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 3: some of my anxiety is like my own whatever, my 786 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 3: own shit and not your shit. So it's so excited 787 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,240 Speaker 3: for that. I love people. I love I love people, 788 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 3: So I'm like, I want to just keep connecting with 789 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,399 Speaker 3: people this year. I want to keep working. I want 790 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:20,439 Speaker 3: to make my podcast better. I want to ideally show 791 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 3: people that there are more interesting things about me than 792 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 3: the people that I date, and like that I have 793 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,240 Speaker 3: a lot going on that is like whatever, interesting and cool, 794 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 3: and like I want to share those things and yeah, 795 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 3: just keep keep doing what I'm doing to some degree, 796 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 3: but bigger better. I love that, and keep getting I'm 797 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 3: so stoked about the guests that I've been getting on 798 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 3: my podcast and you have to go to my box. 799 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be coming. I want to talk sex. I'm 800 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,479 Speaker 2: having the best sex of my life. Oh, let's let's 801 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 2: really roll our sleeves up. 802 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,280 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm gonna start writing questions. 803 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: Oh god, it's I'm like a hops gepping a jump 804 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: away from forty and this like article just came out 805 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,919 Speaker 1: that now women in their forties are having the best 806 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: sex of their life. 807 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 2: And I'm like, not fucking wrong. Okay, why, I don't know. 808 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 3: I finally know what to ask for. 809 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: Did we finally drop the rope and stop performing and 810 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: stop making relationships so fucking performative and you just finally 811 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: say this is what I want and this is what 812 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: makes me happy and not feel shame about it. 813 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I don't know. 814 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 3: Maybe Okay, well we'll talk about that on my podcast. 815 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 3: But I cannot wait. Yeah. I'm so excited that the 816 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 3: guests that I'm getting it started so much like from 817 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 3: my own community and like just people so peripherally close 818 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 3: to me, and I've started to finally get to have 819 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 3: these conversations with people that I'm like I would have 820 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 3: never met you, Like there's no reason I probably would 821 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 3: have never met Margaret Chell, and I'm like, how fucking 822 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,760 Speaker 3: cool that you're here in my house with your Chuawa 823 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,399 Speaker 3: in my bed. I love this and I can't wait 824 00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 3: to see like all the other guests that I'll have 825 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 3: this year. So I'm just I'm I want to find peace, 826 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,799 Speaker 3: I want to be happy, I want to heal. I 827 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 3: want to believe I'm a good person. You are a 828 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 3: good person, and I want to believe it. So let's 829 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 3: see what happens. 830 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 2: I love that for you. I'm excited. I So to 831 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 2: wrap up, I'm going to ask you one last question. 832 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: With x's and o's, what has been the most profound 833 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: moment in interviewing someone that really changed the way you 834 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 1: move in the world. 835 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:36,880 Speaker 3: That's so hard because they're all so good, Like there 836 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 3: is something that good that has come from everyone. I 837 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:46,879 Speaker 3: think personally for me, hmm, maybe the episode I did 838 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,760 Speaker 3: with Er fight Master. We talked a lot. They're so 839 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 3: intelligent and like so interesting, and we talked a lot 840 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 3: about like gender in ways that I was like, this 841 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 3: is so much more profound than the conversations I've been 842 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 3: having around these topics. I also think the conversation I 843 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,239 Speaker 3: had with Ash Perez, who's a trans guy around just 844 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 3: like his transition and like all the things happening right 845 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 3: now with hormone replacement therapy, that was like very profound, 846 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 3: Like I think it was just I think there's so 847 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 3: much fear and stress and scary things going on with 848 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 3: like politics, and I also think that a lot of 849 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 3: those fears sometimes feel like they might not impact me 850 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 3: because like I'm not married and I'm white and I'm sis. 851 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,279 Speaker 3: So sitting down and talking to someone, I'm like, this 852 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,760 Speaker 3: is like a day in and day out potential fear 853 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 3: for you. It is just like it's very important to 854 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,959 Speaker 3: be having those conversations so that I'm like, this work 855 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 3: is very very important, Like I'm not doing this for nothing. 856 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, these stories are so impactful and so important, especially 857 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: with the current political landscape we are living. 858 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,320 Speaker 2: There is in fear. 859 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, there is fear, and even for me, Like I'm 860 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 3: not saying there's no fear, but it's gonna be okay. 861 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 2: We're gonna be okay. 862 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: We're gonna keep elevating our queer communities and that's what 863 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: we do. Like this is not new to the community, 864 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,439 Speaker 1: to roll our sleeves up and be resilient and fight 865 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: like hell for our rights. And it's it's not about 866 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 1: queer rights, it's about human rights. And there is no 867 00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: better way to keep pushing the envelope than by telling 868 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,040 Speaker 1: the stories of queer people. 869 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 2: And you're doing that. So thank you, thank you for 870 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,120 Speaker 2: being here today, thank you for your vulnerability. 871 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: Anytime to doing great. You're doing fucking great, and you 872 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: are enough. 873 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 3: Thank you. 874 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,759 Speaker 1: So I'm always rooting for you. I can't wait to 875 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:58,840 Speaker 1: get on your fucking show. 876 00:47:59,000 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 3: I can't wait. 877 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: I can't I don't wait to absolutely unravel and have 878 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: wine and probably break down and cry. 879 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,320 Speaker 2: Because that's usually what I do when I talk about 880 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 2: my story. I'm so emo. 881 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:09,879 Speaker 3: It's perfect race. 882 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 1: I need tissues, oka, is what I'm saying. But I'm 883 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: really proud of you. I've seen you grow a lot 884 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,919 Speaker 1: over the last you know, eight to ten years, and 885 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: you keep showing up. Kid, you keep doing it, and 886 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,360 Speaker 1: you keep being this beautiful soul and icon that you 887 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,640 Speaker 1: are changing the landscape of queerness for not only young people, 888 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 1: but older people as well. So I'm grateful for your work. 889 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm grateful for your friendship. 890 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 3: I'm grateful for your friend This is I feel like you. 891 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,320 Speaker 3: Just I feel a little bit better today. 892 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:45,880 Speaker 2: That's what we're trying to do. 893 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:46,799 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 894 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for. 895 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: Coming on and tell everyone where they can actually watch. 896 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, all my socials are at now this is Living. 897 00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 3: My YouTube channel now, this is Living. My podcast is 898 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 3: called X's and O's, EXS and o S just that. Yeah, 899 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 3: and I'm on all social media as now this is living. 900 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 1: Great. 901 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for being on Wide Open. Thank you for 902 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 2: another beautiful. 903 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 1: Conversation, and we'll see everyone next week. 904 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 3: Woo. 905 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 1: Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. 906 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,840 Speaker 1: You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 907 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen 908 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from 909 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan 910 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,680 Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily 911 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,719 Speaker 1: Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlan Harris