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Speaker 1: You went to another episode against the Chronicles podcast and
Speaker 1: I'm with my dogs Jill, And you know, back in
Speaker 1: the nineties, the Source was a real pivotal magazine. It
Speaker 1: was Motherfucker's getting record deals off out of there. If
Speaker 1: you got putting an unsigned height, it was on you
Speaker 1: was only cracking. You was on your way and I remember, man,
Speaker 1: you know, as a dude coming up in the business
Speaker 1: back then, that was our goal to try to get
Speaker 1: motherfucker's up in. Everybody's goal as a rapper was getting
Speaker 1: the Source magazine. And to day, man, we got the
Speaker 1: founder of the Source magazine up here, man, Mr Dave
Speaker 1: Maze Man was cracking. Man. Everything's good man, I'm really
Speaker 1: happy to be here with you guys. Man, Man, we
Speaker 1: got a whole bunch of stuff to talk to you about. Brother,
Speaker 1: It's a whole bunch of stuff, man. First off, Man,
Speaker 1: I'd like to start with the basics all the time,
Speaker 1: because you see these interviews sometimes, Man, if people don't
Speaker 1: ask the most basic quations, I'm like, why are you
Speaker 1: even asking this? How did you come up with the
Speaker 1: Source magazine? Man? What was on your mind when you
Speaker 1: thought of it? Was it like a vision you had?
Speaker 1: I mean, because rap was kind of rap was kind
Speaker 1: of early right then, you know what I'm saying. With
Speaker 1: the publications and everything, so you know what made you
Speaker 1: wanna get interested in that? Well, I guess I should
Speaker 1: tell like the full back story. Basically, it starts with
Speaker 1: me just growing up in d C. I'm born and
Speaker 1: raised at d C. UM just you know, going through
Speaker 1: the public schools, just got exposed to the you know,
Speaker 1: the music and the culture of the city at a
Speaker 1: young age. And I fell in love with a d
Speaker 1: C as you guys know is you know, go Go
Speaker 1: was really, you know, the dominant music in the eighties there.
Speaker 1: So I was heavily into Go Go. I did hear,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of hip hop um on the radio,
Speaker 1: so rapp is delight and the message was always a
Speaker 1: big song with me um. But when I when I
Speaker 1: graduated high school, I went to Harvard and when I
Speaker 1: got to Harvard, it's right outside Boston. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: they weren't working with Go Go up there, and that's
Speaker 1: really when I became more just focused on hip hop um.
Speaker 1: And I started a radio show on the Harvard station.
Speaker 1: They were playing classical music and I had met a guy.
Speaker 1: It was like nobody at Harvard that that I could
Speaker 1: you know, get along with or felt comfortable with. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a weird thing when I got there. But
Speaker 1: there was this one kid that I met who was
Speaker 1: playing rap music out of his dorm. This kid named
Speaker 1: John Scheckter. He was from Philly and he was into rap.
Speaker 1: So we end up joining the radio station, started a
Speaker 1: radio show that I did for four years and it
Speaker 1: got really popular in the Boston area. UM so UM
Speaker 1: The Source really comes along UM in between. Like at
Speaker 1: the end of my sophomore year UM. I had been
Speaker 1: trying to sell sponsorships of the radio show and going
Speaker 1: out to local businesses and saying, hey know, take out
Speaker 1: a sponsorship. They were basically like, you know, who's listening
Speaker 1: to a hip hop show on Harvard station? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I have to find a way to prove my audience.
Speaker 1: So I started building a mailing list of my listeners
Speaker 1: throughout the Boston area because I know, I got people
Speaker 1: calling in and you know, this is one am on
Speaker 1: Friday nights. But back then, and you know, that was
Speaker 1: the only place you could hear rap music, you know,
Speaker 1: in a lot of cities. You know, he didn't have
Speaker 1: radio stations that were playing rap. Um so um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: The Source UM started as a newsletter that as I
Speaker 1: I started building a mailing list of all these people
Speaker 1: listening to my show, and that was the way I
Speaker 1: was put in a database to go out and try
Speaker 1: to get more sponsors for the show. In the process
Speaker 1: of doing that, um answering the phones. People want to
Speaker 1: know what's going on, when's the new you know, Big
Speaker 1: Daddy Kane single coming out? And who produced this and
Speaker 1: what's going on with that? And you know, people wanted
Speaker 1: to know information. So all that ended up kind of
Speaker 1: sparking the idea. Uh instead of you know, selling sponsors
Speaker 1: of my radio show, I'm going to create the newsletter.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put the news and information in it that
Speaker 1: I'm getting. I got relationships with different labels now you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm dealing with all the labels in New York
Speaker 1: and l A to have rap music so I can
Speaker 1: get the music sent up to my college you know
Speaker 1: station and get the new singles first and all that
Speaker 1: and uh So anyway, it just it started like that,
Speaker 1: just with an idea to provide uh news and information
Speaker 1: to the hip hop community. Um, you know, because there
Speaker 1: was nowhere to find any any of that information. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you came with that, man, and didn't it just
Speaker 1: progressively got bigger, Like what was the defining moment that
Speaker 1: made it go like bam, Like we're cooking with Greece now,
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got an asset a lot of times.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Source like really grew, just it grew
Speaker 1: fast and steadily and just kept getting big, big and
Speaker 1: big and big and bigger as the years, you know,
Speaker 1: you know whatever. So um, you know, by by the
Speaker 1: late eighties, I mean before I left college in the
Speaker 1: summer nine, I mean, we probably had you know, at
Speaker 1: least five hundred records stores around the country selling The
Speaker 1: Source by that time, and um, you know, it just
Speaker 1: it kept you know, we passed one one accomplishment. But
Speaker 1: it was for me, it was always I'm already thinking ahead,
Speaker 1: you know. After that first newsletter, Uh, somebody end up
Speaker 1: giving me a book about Rolling Stone magazine that I
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about at the time, and you know,
Speaker 1: I read the history of how Rolling Stone was started.
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of similarities between rock and roll
Speaker 1: and hip hop, and so that was what I was,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna build a Rolling Stone of hip hop. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it was my first idea. And then even
Speaker 1: that change as time went on and I started getting
Speaker 1: into you know, television and other parts of the media,
Speaker 1: trying to become more of a diverse a fide you know,
Speaker 1: media and brand, because brand that was different from magazines.
Speaker 1: A lot of magazines didn't think of themselves as brands
Speaker 1: back in those days. So yeah, so you mentioned that
Speaker 1: you went to Harvard. What was your mom and your
Speaker 1: daddy thinking when you came home, told me, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start up with magazine. And they paid all that
Speaker 1: money for you to go to Harvard. And then the
Speaker 1: thing like you were not to cut you off. Still,
Speaker 1: but like you said, the defining moment, what you say,
Speaker 1: that was attributed to you know, because you know rap
Speaker 1: was small, you know, you started off with the newsletter
Speaker 1: whatever what you say. Like with the growth of rap,
Speaker 1: more people wanted to get more inquired about rappers and
Speaker 1: records and and basically what was going on. So the
Speaker 1: source was basically that that hip hop, like you said,
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone in effect, because even before I started rapping,
Speaker 1: that was a place where I went to to look
Speaker 1: forward to the next record or who was the new
Speaker 1: MC or whatever whatever, even before I started rapping at
Speaker 1: a young age. Yeah, it didn't. It didn't bother y'all
Speaker 1: when like you're building the source. But then you had
Speaker 1: the hardcore rappers those days. Rappers didn't talk to didn't
Speaker 1: just binging with white boys, just just because so did
Speaker 1: you have to that people have had to grow, meaning
Speaker 1: the rappers had to grow and get to know you,
Speaker 1: to talk to you and to want to be a
Speaker 1: part of the magazine. UM yeah, I mean I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I was always good at building relationships with
Speaker 1: all types of people, you know, and that was always
Speaker 1: you know, a big part of what made The Source
Speaker 1: successful was building those, um you know, those relationships across
Speaker 1: different you know aspects from whether it's the artists themselves,
Speaker 1: the managers, the artists friends, the label executives. You know.
Speaker 1: I just you know, really just tried to um build
Speaker 1: relationships across you know, across the board and um um.
Speaker 1: So I was able to you know, also kind of
Speaker 1: get folks to sort of you know, believe in what
Speaker 1: The Source was doing, you know, and get a lot
Speaker 1: of support from the labels and the artists because it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, we're the kind of championing of
Speaker 1: hip hop, you know, the voice for hip hop. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we had a lot to do
Speaker 1: with helping it grow and you know, um, you know
Speaker 1: emerged throughout the ninety nineties and you know, become bigger
Speaker 1: and a lot of different ways. The Source has so
Speaker 1: many different you know things that impacted. So was it
Speaker 1: a one man show? Was it just you the whole ride?
Speaker 1: You you builded you the founder? Um, I mean no,
Speaker 1: in the beginning, it was me. I'm the one that
Speaker 1: came up with you know, the Source did the first one.
Speaker 1: Then while I was in college, I ended up having
Speaker 1: three other partners, Um, the guy John Scheckter I mentioned
Speaker 1: UM and to other guys ed Ed Young and and
Speaker 1: James Bernard. So I had three three other partners that
Speaker 1: I cut into the company and we all worked together
Speaker 1: up until like maybe six years in. Then I had
Speaker 1: a split with two of those guys. Those guys you know,
Speaker 1: moved on UM. And it was sometime and you know
Speaker 1: in those years right around when I brought Ben Zeno
Speaker 1: in as you know, a partner with me that had
Speaker 1: been my friend. I had been you know, knowing him
Speaker 1: from Boston from the music, you know, from my radio
Speaker 1: show before there was a source. Uh, you know, he
Speaker 1: had a local rap group and you know we got
Speaker 1: got to know each other and you know, so I
Speaker 1: had helped them get their record deals and things like that.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, the Source was my thing that
Speaker 1: I have been doing for a while but uh yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a few other a few other partners along
Speaker 1: the way. But uh yeah, just let me leaning back
Speaker 1: on that one question ast what was your mom and
Speaker 1: your daddy thing? Good question. I mean I did get
Speaker 1: some some flak from that. You know, there was a
Speaker 1: little bit of that like is wrapped of course, instead
Speaker 1: of you the Harvard and you're up here like doing
Speaker 1: a wrap radio show and trying to do a rap
Speaker 1: magazine or whatever. You know what I mean, You're supposed
Speaker 1: to be boom. But they couldn't tell me nothing. Man, once,
Speaker 1: once I got going with it, I was so passionate
Speaker 1: about it. You know, like I said, I always have
Speaker 1: been an entrepreneur, So I was like, man, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be big. You know, this is gonna be huge. And
Speaker 1: you know I loved the music and the culture. I'm
Speaker 1: living this every day, so you know, ship it all
Speaker 1: just you know, came together. Now you're coming to hip
Speaker 1: hop coaching. At that time, man, hip hop wasn't like that.
Speaker 1: You know, we always had gangsterrhism, but it was more
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. You might see a motherfucker wrapping the
Speaker 1: Box Chicks on his record, but he could be the
Speaker 1: most gangster motherfucking the world. So you being a white
Speaker 1: dude coming in here man from you know, Harvard University
Speaker 1: and everything, did you ever catch any fleck from the
Speaker 1: Brothers at first when he first came in. Not really, No,
Speaker 1: I mean I've always felt, you know, people have accepted me,
Speaker 1: you know, in the black community, in any community, but
Speaker 1: particularly you know, in hip hop. Um. You know, I
Speaker 1: never really got made to feel uncomfortable, you know, And
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things about hip hop.
Speaker 1: You know, hip hop is is this, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a culture, and it's it's something that if you're you know,
Speaker 1: true to yourself, you know, we accept you no matter
Speaker 1: of exactly what hip hop is universal, man, that's what
Speaker 1: it is. And it's all about authenticity too. We never
Speaker 1: had no color lines as as far as rap concerned
Speaker 1: or hip hop was concerned. I mean, Ship, everybody liked
Speaker 1: the motherfucking Beastie boys, you give me. I mean, back
Speaker 1: in that year, you couldn't even contest because Ship. You
Speaker 1: could have told any motherfucker. Then some motherfucking niggers right there.
Speaker 1: I don't give a fund before you heard them and
Speaker 1: the way carried themselves in the flow and was able
Speaker 1: to hang with running them. Um, so we as as
Speaker 1: as hip hop artists, we never crossed those color lines
Speaker 1: as far as hip hop was concerned. If you were
Speaker 1: true hip hop again, third base, you get me true
Speaker 1: hip hop to us. So that was ship. I used
Speaker 1: to play like it wasn't anything. So I don't think
Speaker 1: we ever looked upon it like you know, the color lines. Now,
Speaker 1: if it was some corny ship, then of course we
Speaker 1: we we had to cross really, and that's what I
Speaker 1: think with anything else, man, people like authenticity. That's what
Speaker 1: I felt when I looked at the sources, I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: these motherfucker's is on point. Like I told you, I
Speaker 1: would gauge because I had a Ricord store at one
Speaker 1: time too. I was gauged on what I was buying
Speaker 1: my store based on what theseus raided certain albums. I
Speaker 1: would be looking like, Okay, this's got two and a
Speaker 1: half mics. It's just some trash. I'm not working with
Speaker 1: it because most of the time it was you had
Speaker 1: to earn that trust, you know. I earned that trust
Speaker 1: and I said, Okay, this is really the bible for
Speaker 1: hip hop. This is the guy you know. And one
Speaker 1: of the things we go fast forward a little bit, right,
Speaker 1: so fast forward a little bit. New York hip hop
Speaker 1: is killing it. You know. New York is like the
Speaker 1: Epicenter's the genesis for hip hop, That's the garden of
Speaker 1: eating for hip hop. Everything was kind of birth from there.
Speaker 1: Right then you get some cats on the West Coast,
Speaker 1: on the other side of the country starting to rise.
Speaker 1: Did you see the attention did you feel like the
Speaker 1: competitive spirit on the East Coast when you was over there,
Speaker 1: when the West Coast started making noise? Um? What you know,
Speaker 1: what I always saw and what I always noticed was
Speaker 1: just the way that you know, people from New York
Speaker 1: had a certain you know, you know, just a certain
Speaker 1: arrogance and a certain way of not really taking you know,
Speaker 1: rappers and and rap and wrapped from other parts of
Speaker 1: the country very seriously from early on. And that that
Speaker 1: created you know, like this divide with goals like you
Speaker 1: know them, you know what I mean, Like when our
Speaker 1: should is you know, is is banging out here? I
Speaker 1: don't know what you talking about. So um, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I just really tried as hard as as
Speaker 1: I could to try to, you know, bring in people
Speaker 1: that uh, you know, had an open ear to music
Speaker 1: as much as possible. Um, And you know, I think
Speaker 1: we did a pretty good job with that over the years. Again,
Speaker 1: you know, we had our ups and downs and our
Speaker 1: hits and mrs here and there, But you know, I
Speaker 1: think overall, Um, you know, we really focused on that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up on New York round. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't say that our early stages of hip hop,
Speaker 1: we're very corny compared to fucking New York hip hop.
Speaker 1: You give me thus, you know, when you when you
Speaker 1: are different. I mean, if you want to compare dudes
Speaker 1: like grand Master Flash and you want to compare people
Speaker 1: like Tela Rock in the beginning, or the Fat Boys
Speaker 1: or Curtis blow Or or Spooney g or just Ice,
Speaker 1: compared to fucking the Wrecking Crew and fucking Bobby Jimmy
Speaker 1: and the Critters and ship like that. We had fucking
Speaker 1: bullshit rap. Yeah, it started getting good. Todd didn't really
Speaker 1: my nigga, Todd. You know, Um, Todd gave an ear
Speaker 1: in an avenue for niggas like us or in the
Speaker 1: neighborhoods who didn't who didn't have that that significant motherfucker
Speaker 1: on the mic, like a Mellie Male or those type
Speaker 1: of Motherfucker's who spoke about you know, uh, the jungle
Speaker 1: and the message and the ship like that. So you're
Speaker 1: basically saying that when it came to California rappers New
Speaker 1: York didn't have no songs where they wanted to play,
Speaker 1: like being in being a DJ and having you know,
Speaker 1: doing a radio show. They didn't have good music to
Speaker 1: put out from the from the West Coast. No, not
Speaker 1: really there. And in those early years, ear years when
Speaker 1: we started, yeah, we started getting recognition around really the
Speaker 1: easy the easy stage. Okay, question for you. So when
Speaker 1: you when you had your radio station, did you play
Speaker 1: West Coast music or you did it was like mixed,
Speaker 1: like okay, yeah, well I mean, I mean that's how
Speaker 1: we got a lot of our breaks because that was
Speaker 1: one thing about Boston that was different. Boston was a
Speaker 1: city different from most of the East Coast, where like
Speaker 1: if if I was in New York or Philly or
Speaker 1: something like that, I probably wouldn't have got exposed. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they fucked with you know, ghetto boys, they they fucked
Speaker 1: with all kinds of music. They weren't like just on
Speaker 1: an New York even what kind of what kind of
Speaker 1: rappers did you like from the West Coast then I
Speaker 1: mean Easy, n w A. I mean, you know, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it was like it wasn't too much. You know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't there in the beginning. There was I mean
Speaker 1: I came out after the fact of Easy and right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I came around. Um, but like you said, before the end,
Speaker 1: we didn't really have no identity as West Coast hip hop.
Speaker 1: As much as I respect, I respect with them dudes did,
Speaker 1: but like the dream Team that yes, we're here, and
Speaker 1: it was just all corny, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like just corny, but there was
Speaker 1: big records out here. It was nonetheless because we had
Speaker 1: no identity for hip hop. So to us, when you
Speaker 1: listen to the Wrecking Crew, turn off your lights, or
Speaker 1: you listen to the l A dream Team, dream Team
Speaker 1: is here, or you listen to some Bobby Jimmy and
Speaker 1: the Critters and ship like that, some some motherfucking parody
Speaker 1: rap you get me. Fuck it, I'm gonna take the
Speaker 1: song rumors and make another song out of it, like
Speaker 1: some weird Al Yankovic ship. You know, we didn't get
Speaker 1: all respect for we until Easy came. And then Easy
Speaker 1: started talking about honestly, really, like I said, we had
Speaker 1: tied and mixed Master Spade, but that didn't get mainstream
Speaker 1: like Easy did and was Easy broke. Then we started,
Speaker 1: Then we got T Love, and then we got motherfucking
Speaker 1: Cube and Motherfucker's the follow after dub c Us see
Speaker 1: W and then everything that trickled down and people start going, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's West Coast. Motherfucker's got some flavor. But up until
Speaker 1: the end that ship, everything I listened to came from
Speaker 1: the East Coast. I used to run the paramount swapneat
Speaker 1: and just buy none but East Coast twelve. I think
Speaker 1: we all did, because it really nothing at that time.
Speaker 1: There was because I liked the lyrical ship. Really one
Speaker 1: of the first lyrical cats I heard from the early days.
Speaker 1: I always thought King T was a rapping motherfucking was
Speaker 1: a rapping motherfucker, you know what I mean. Kant was
Speaker 1: a rapping motherfucker. And I heard a rumor that actually
Speaker 1: King T had I heard Biggie Smalls was a King
Speaker 1: T fan. And when you listen back to them early records,
Speaker 1: you can kind of hear a little bit the way
Speaker 1: you know King T. Because King T and everybody was
Speaker 1: rapping on the one back then kind of like right,
Speaker 1: King T used to lay back in the track like
Speaker 1: he was just in the Cadillac, Like he laid back
Speaker 1: in and you just pictured it and it was like
Speaker 1: these real visual like even with this album. But you know,
Speaker 1: twelve Gage walking on the side, that was some pivotal ship.
Speaker 1: So I want to know from you, what was the
Speaker 1: vibe back then because you was on the East Coast?
Speaker 1: Was the East Coast based magazine when that ship started
Speaker 1: making noise? Wasn't a lot of hate really in the air,
Speaker 1: like all that ship ain't it's gonna go away? The
Speaker 1: West Coast? Yeah, like the first West Coast me. I
Speaker 1: mean I was you know, I wasn't really tuned into that.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I already had an open mind, you know.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm sure there were people, you know,
Speaker 1: in New York and around you know, our office or
Speaker 1: whatever that might. You know, I felt that way, um,
Speaker 1: but I didn't see. That's what I want to know.
Speaker 1: Don't give us the politically correct answers. I want to
Speaker 1: know if it was the motherfucker that worked in the office,
Speaker 1: like the chronic man, it's some bullshit. I don't want
Speaker 1: to hear this all this. I know by that time,
Speaker 1: we was, we were sicking, we was, we was, we
Speaker 1: was on point as far as music. By the time
Speaker 1: the Chronic came out, Chronic, if you know, it was
Speaker 1: one of the most you know, important even influential turning
Speaker 1: points and source with with that cover with Dre with
Speaker 1: the gun to his head. You know, we put that
Speaker 1: out before the Chronic came out. You know, when you
Speaker 1: know I went to track down Dre, I had to
Speaker 1: go through Shug and got them to agree to give
Speaker 1: us the exclusion interview and do that cover. Heard the
Speaker 1: album was going crazy over that album before you know
Speaker 1: it came out. So we dropped that cover like a
Speaker 1: month or two before the album actually dropped, so and
Speaker 1: that really helped blow the source of even bigger. That's
Speaker 1: one of our That's probably my favorite cover I got that.
Speaker 1: I got that maga down like this one. Was that collected?
Speaker 1: I want to know, was was there any tension because
Speaker 1: you know y'all used to rate the records, give people
Speaker 1: the mics and all that. Did you ever have any
Speaker 1: tension over the situations of reading people's albums, Um, don't
Speaker 1: give us the album, man, we want to hear the
Speaker 1: real it's against the chronicles. We want to hear that,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, because the motherfucker get that album
Speaker 1: and I mean get that magazine and open it and
Speaker 1: you get to the albums and then you see four
Speaker 1: mics on something and you see three mics and you
Speaker 1: see two and a half. I know, motherfucker's would be
Speaker 1: like Man two and a half. But the funk man,
Speaker 1: all right, I mean buying large as a whole. You know, honestly,
Speaker 1: we didn't have those issues. I mean people didn't. You know,
Speaker 1: we had a certain level of respect, you know, in
Speaker 1: the in the industry, and you know, I think that
Speaker 1: didn't really happen very often. Um now, because I got four, Mike,
Speaker 1: so I was good. I got my four. There was
Speaker 1: some moments in like when I said how like my
Speaker 1: partners had left in like four. There was some moments
Speaker 1: where the Source started getting into it with artists. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember. There was iced tea beef
Speaker 1: going on. There was um uh public enemy, um cube
Speaker 1: actually did the source on hand of the dead body.
Speaker 1: Um but uh yeah, it was just a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of old Cypress Hill. There was a whole thing going
Speaker 1: on between Cypress Hill and the Source where we really
Speaker 1: helped blow Cypress Hill up, Like, you know, before they
Speaker 1: even came out, we were pushing them in the magazine.
Speaker 1: We loved Cypress Hill. Help blow them up. But then
Speaker 1: there was a falling out between them and some of
Speaker 1: these editors at the Source that were writing ship whatever.
Speaker 1: They had a whole thing with them where they ran
Speaker 1: up on me down to Miami at one of the
Speaker 1: music conferences. Um, you know behind that and you know, nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing happened. I was able to talk to all of them.
Speaker 1: It was like fifteen and them with you know, all
Speaker 1: the Samoans they ran with, you know, the Boy Brothers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. I was down there by myself at this
Speaker 1: music conference, you know. But anyway, you know, so stuff
Speaker 1: like that. People definitely took the ratings seriously. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have to deal with too much drama.
Speaker 1: Fortunately over the years. That's a good thing because hip
Speaker 1: hop can be kind of like, you know, it gets
Speaker 1: you know, I know a lot of rappers, man, some
Speaker 1: cats take their stuff serious and they'd like to push
Speaker 1: their line like that. So you never had nobody running
Speaker 1: up in the office, man, like what the hell going
Speaker 1: on man, this ship, I mean, it's over now you
Speaker 1: can tell us. Now let's bring some news. But this
Speaker 1: is this is a story that that I've talked about
Speaker 1: and that me and him talking about, I think on
Speaker 1: on one of his shows. But Dame Dash, there was
Speaker 1: a situation where, you know, uh, jay Z was we
Speaker 1: were supposed to give jay Z to cover. Now when
Speaker 1: we did a cover, like, we wanted it to be exclusive. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna give you the cover, Like we got to
Speaker 1: get the first dives, be the first magazine, the first interview,
Speaker 1: and we need to get that out there right like
Speaker 1: when the album drops and then after that next month
Speaker 1: or whatever you could do other you know, um, you know,
Speaker 1: other types of things. But um, um Ship was saying
Speaker 1: about the Yeah, so so we were gonna give j
Speaker 1: the cover, um, and we had agreed to do it.
Speaker 1: It was gonna be exclusive, and um, I think the
Speaker 1: album got pushed back something like that. And the next
Speaker 1: thing I know, um, the very first issue of Double
Speaker 1: X magazine comes out and it has jay Z on
Speaker 1: the cover, and UM, you know, I'm like, well, damn.
Speaker 1: You know, we had an arrangement, you know, to have
Speaker 1: the exclusive for jay Z and now he's on the
Speaker 1: you know, you know that the time Deluxel was supposed
Speaker 1: to be this big competitor to the Source and he's
Speaker 1: on the cover. So you know, I decided I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna do the cover. I pull that back on it.
Speaker 1: There was some you know, drama behind that, and it
Speaker 1: ended up one one day, Damon Dash and about four
Speaker 1: or five guys ran up into the Source office. I
Speaker 1: wasn't there. I was out somewhere, but I got the
Speaker 1: phone call and they were like in the lobby, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to cause some some rockets or whatever. But you know,
Speaker 1: we had our our security, you know, and guys they
Speaker 1: having basically you know, everybody left peacefully, you know, and
Speaker 1: you know that was like one of the memorable ones.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't nothing like crazy. Again. We fortunately didn't
Speaker 1: have any like crazy type situations. No issues with Shige night.
Speaker 1: Uh No. I always had a great relationship with Sugar. Um.
Speaker 1: He was always you know, respectful to me and very supportive. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, like from that first cover with Dre, you know,
Speaker 1: he's really helped make that happen. And uh even with
Speaker 1: the you know, with the ninety Source awards, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know he spent like over
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars on that set that opened up
Speaker 1: the show. Death Row had the jail cells and everybody performed.
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't have that kind of money. This
Speaker 1: is our first time ever televising the Source Awards, and
Speaker 1: he's he's really the only label that stepped up and
Speaker 1: spent that kind of money. A lot of the other
Speaker 1: labels supported. That was the whole way I was able
Speaker 1: to make it happen was because of the relationships I
Speaker 1: had with the Sugars, the Jay Princes, the Puffs, you know,
Speaker 1: Russell Simmons, le Or Cohen's, all the different players, you know,
Speaker 1: to get everybody to come together, you know, and and
Speaker 1: and do it. But uh, you know that really made
Speaker 1: the show look on television way doper. You know, that
Speaker 1: opening set was you know, the most dope probably performances
Speaker 1: ever on an award show. So um no, I never
Speaker 1: never really had any any drama with Now James just
Speaker 1: did something. I don't know if he did it on
Speaker 1: purpose or not. He just landed on something that we
Speaker 1: got to talk about in length, in detail that Source
Speaker 1: Awards because in my opinion, death Row Records probably had
Speaker 1: the best performance ever at the Source of Awards when
Speaker 1: they came out with all the jail sales on on
Speaker 1: the thing and everybody was out there and you see
Speaker 1: r b X come out because some of them represents
Speaker 1: on death Row. That was people's first time actually getting
Speaker 1: to see them, you know, perform. So when they came
Speaker 1: out on stage and everything we was going through your
Speaker 1: mind when that whole night happened. Was the chaos was
Speaker 1: attention to the airman and think because we right in
Speaker 1: the middle of the war almost then, that's like right
Speaker 1: at the start of the war. Attention I was there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I was to know the war there would that
Speaker 1: night that was that was an interesting night. I was attention.
Speaker 1: I had beef with quick that night, right. Yeah. It
Speaker 1: was tension in the building because that was the night
Speaker 1: that m C eight because he was up there with
Speaker 1: the whole ful of people and you were sitting right
Speaker 1: in the stags the front, right in front. To do
Speaker 1: that though, I would have you know, I would have
Speaker 1: said something. They kind of threw that in because that
Speaker 1: wasn't part of theirs. They tried to the wife or something.
Speaker 1: They tried to diss me on stage during the show
Speaker 1: and we was ready to fight about eight niggers with
Speaker 1: they did something about the fiance. Uh, somebody recognized the
Speaker 1: fiance and some bulletshit and uh you heard the wooes
Speaker 1: and the woes when when he said it, So people
Speaker 1: was picking. Yeah, But what I will say is there
Speaker 1: wasn't tension going in there. Like a lot of people
Speaker 1: think about, you know, kind of what you were saying,
Speaker 1: Like they think about the Source Awards as like the
Speaker 1: start of you know, where things you know go left
Speaker 1: and and and and everything that happens after that. But
Speaker 1: you know, I don't look at it like that. It's like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, there was no tension. Park wasn't jail and
Speaker 1: going into that night, nobody knew that Park was coming
Speaker 1: out and gonna be on death row. Okay, So Park
Speaker 1: had his drama with you know, Big and Bad Boy
Speaker 1: that have been going on while he was in jail.
Speaker 1: But me putting the Source Awards together, you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't see any you know beasts. There was no problems
Speaker 1: at any point you know, between death rowing Bad Boy
Speaker 1: at this point now you know, and then there's differing
Speaker 1: you know, opinions, Like one of the things about that
Speaker 1: show like that. Uh that I noticed is you know
Speaker 1: when you watch the ninety five Source Awards bad Boy,
Speaker 1: you know, the death Row opens it and kills with
Speaker 1: that performance. But before sug goes on stage, there's a
Speaker 1: bad Boy performance at Medley where he had everybody there too,
Speaker 1: you know, Craig mac total big little kid, Junior Mafia.
Speaker 1: But at the beginning of that Puffs kneeling on the
Speaker 1: stage and he's saying this on the spotlight. You know,
Speaker 1: I live in the East and I'll die in the East.
Speaker 1: You know. Now that's before shuld goes on stage. So
Speaker 1: I never had the opportunity to have this conversation with Sugar.
Speaker 1: I hope you know that I will one day uh
Speaker 1: to find this out. But in my mind, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: like that might have been something, you know, that made
Speaker 1: him feel a certain way, you know, probably definitely kicked
Speaker 1: it off. Yeah, this sounds like you're throwing dirt. Then
Speaker 1: you know what I mean when you say, you know,
Speaker 1: I live everything that happened. But um, like we had
Speaker 1: talked about it, I guess before we really got on air.
Speaker 1: It's like the real situation between death Row and bad
Speaker 1: Boy doesn't start until a month or so later, when
Speaker 1: you know, Jake is killed down in Atlanta, that's really
Speaker 1: the start of the violence, the drama, everything going crazy
Speaker 1: from there. Now, you know, we can talk about that
Speaker 1: a little bit because I didn't even know James at
Speaker 1: the time, but I remember when Jake got killed, it
Speaker 1: was a lot of like it was some real cats
Speaker 1: in the street talking about that because I remember one
Speaker 1: of my good homeboys, you know, Crawford. He was mad
Speaker 1: as hell, tears flaming down as he came by my
Speaker 1: house when that happened. That Jake was a real good dude.
Speaker 1: And I knew I knew Jake very well. You know,
Speaker 1: he was doing promotion for death Row and we used
Speaker 1: to you know, talk a lot, and I would go
Speaker 1: see him when I came out, you know, visit our here,
Speaker 1: and you know, I had a lot of love for Jake.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was that that hurt, you know when uh,
Speaker 1: when when we lost Now, what's going through your mind, man,
Speaker 1: Because I've had these situations, you know, to where you're
Speaker 1: sitting home listening to something, you know, you there, you're
Speaker 1: listening to it, and it's like in the moment and
Speaker 1: like you can stop because all this stuff is actually
Speaker 1: happening right now. When you saw should go up there
Speaker 1: and say, and you knew where he was going. If
Speaker 1: you don't want the executive producer dancing all in the videos,
Speaker 1: what's your heart just beating? Like, oh man, it's about
Speaker 1: to go down. I mean, of course I was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, with you know the room. You know, the
Speaker 1: room got loud, you know, because you know, he kind
Speaker 1: of got booed, you know, because it's five thousand people
Speaker 1: in there. You got maybe not even a thousand in
Speaker 1: the front. That's the industry. People of the rest is
Speaker 1: people from New York exactly who bought tickets to sit
Speaker 1: in the in the back and upstairs and everything. So
Speaker 1: you know, I was in the back of the theater,
Speaker 1: like just walking around, I would, you know, just trying
Speaker 1: to check the temperature, see what was going on out
Speaker 1: in the crowd. So I kind of remember, you know,
Speaker 1: hearing that in the commotion, and I you know, made
Speaker 1: the B line to get backstage and you know, chugging
Speaker 1: his guys. Like the back of the theater in the garden,
Speaker 1: it's like stairs that go up and down the different
Speaker 1: you know levels of the backstage and resting rooms and
Speaker 1: ship like that. I just remember going over on that
Speaker 1: side and it was like fifty guys just running up
Speaker 1: and down the stairs, the stairs like you know, kind
Speaker 1: of causing the ruckets, just yelling and screaming whatever. And
Speaker 1: then Puff was over on the other side of the
Speaker 1: stage and to the other side of the stage. He
Speaker 1: had a bunch of people around him and he was
Speaker 1: really upset about it, and you know, but he decided
Speaker 1: to kind of take the higher ground, you know, and
Speaker 1: and and not you know, respond or whatever, and he
Speaker 1: calmed down, and you know, so there wasn't no you know,
Speaker 1: it was you know, there was tension, but there wasn't
Speaker 1: no it wasn't even a punch thrown that night that
Speaker 1: I've ever heard of, you know. Um, And sometimes people
Speaker 1: just make it out like it was much more and
Speaker 1: make it out, you know, like that's really what caused
Speaker 1: everything that happened afterwards. And you know, to me, that's
Speaker 1: part of the history that you know, I want to
Speaker 1: try to get told correctly and get out because I've
Speaker 1: heard through the years, I've heard about a girl claimed
Speaker 1: that she got slept with a bottle or something like that.
Speaker 1: Outside the Source of Wars, somebody got cracked with a
Speaker 1: bottle or something like that. So that what truth, I
Speaker 1: don't think I being inside, I don't think I've witnessed
Speaker 1: any actual scrapping or actual fighting. So and but it
Speaker 1: was serious tension, and that's serious tension and that's a
Speaker 1: good thing. Man. So now the war is on, and
Speaker 1: you're right, it just didn't start that. It would have
Speaker 1: been bubbling kind of because if I'm correct, correct me
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, James. But Sugar and Puffy was actually
Speaker 1: hanging out pretty tough at one point, wasn't he. Yep?
Speaker 1: They was you know, they was boys. So that frud
Speaker 1: was puff shot like man, this supposed to be my man,
Speaker 1: and he appeared you know what I'm saying this and
Speaker 1: or whatever, you know what I'm saying. It was at
Speaker 1: that point sheould wanted to why didn't like I don't
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, I never had no problems
Speaker 1: with should I've had talks with Sugar and all that.
Speaker 1: What what sparked him to do that that night? Just
Speaker 1: to take over? It was just you know, I'm for
Speaker 1: the star when people toes. I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: I think she wanted somebody. Puppy. Puppy was like that
Speaker 1: ain't happening. You know, he actually stood up to him,
Speaker 1: and that was a sign like who the nigga think
Speaker 1: he is? So she felt a certain god away and
Speaker 1: then ship just start happening through. I think it was
Speaker 1: more he says. She say, boys, ship that was going
Speaker 1: back and forth from New York to us, and Sugar
Speaker 1: was getting it, and it was only one way to
Speaker 1: reply to that ship. Okay, let's let's start poking needles
Speaker 1: at motherfucker's start being disrespectful. And then you couple that
Speaker 1: with the Tupac stuff, because I don't heard it's so
Speaker 1: many stories about that. You don't know what's true or
Speaker 1: not true unless you was there, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Because I know Biggie and Tuthpock at one time was
Speaker 1: running tough because I could swear DJ Bob kats mother
Speaker 1: god brother. You know DJ Bock is my god brother.
Speaker 1: He did a lot of work with Tupac prior to
Speaker 1: him coming with you know, Deathro like them earlier, was
Speaker 1: before Tupac became the iconic duty was and I remember
Speaker 1: a few times actually seeing I remember seeing Biggie with
Speaker 1: with Tupac. But this is back before either of them
Speaker 1: dues what's who they were? So now the war is
Speaker 1: kicked off. Man, everything is crazy. How did that impact
Speaker 1: you doing business? You know, business still moving on, of course,
Speaker 1: but now everybody old sensitive. So if it looks like
Speaker 1: you're picking the side, have you ever got to cue
Speaker 1: of picking the side? No? Again, you know that's just
Speaker 1: something I really try to navigate very carefully, just you
Speaker 1: know that kind of you know, sensitivity to situations. You know,
Speaker 1: not wanting to ever be in a position of you know,
Speaker 1: inflaming a situation. Um you know, um with you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things that I did in nineties six,
Speaker 1: you know, while It's stuff was going on, I mean
Speaker 1: we couldn't do a Source awards that you know, it
Speaker 1: just wasn't the environment to do that. So it did
Speaker 1: put a stop to that. But um I did a
Speaker 1: cover with Sugar in the summer of nineties six, the
Speaker 1: one you know where he's sitting on a rose Royce
Speaker 1: and you know, get a real in depth interview. But
Speaker 1: on the front cover you'll see it says Sugar Knight
Speaker 1: and then it quotes it ain't no East coast West
Speaker 1: coast thing, which was a quote from him and the article.
Speaker 1: So to me, that was something to try to get
Speaker 1: that message out there to people like, this isn't East
Speaker 1: West thing. This is you know, obviously it's something you know,
Speaker 1: it's a personal thing you know that was going on. Um.
Speaker 1: So you know that's an example of a way that
Speaker 1: I would try to, you know, help a situation if
Speaker 1: I could, you know, like that, um and and just
Speaker 1: not get into just printing a bunch of you know,
Speaker 1: inflammatory ship that's going to end up you know, leading
Speaker 1: to you know, some some real consequences. Yeah, people don't
Speaker 1: do that as big because people are printing damn thing
Speaker 1: not knowing that could get motherfucker's knocked down, right, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So now we're going through all
Speaker 1: that stuff. Man, then uh, you had a whole thing
Speaker 1: that happens in the Night of Las Vegas, you know,
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas when Tupac got killed, right, Um, And
Speaker 1: I think that's when everything kind of like kind of
Speaker 1: slowed down from there, you know what I'm saying, kind
Speaker 1: of slowed down. Then Biggie got killed, right, and that's
Speaker 1: when everybody was kind of like, man, this ship is real,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And that ship, I don't
Speaker 1: think it had nothing to do with no hip hop.
Speaker 1: I think that was all some other ship going on,
Speaker 1: you know, why not? Why not? I just don't think
Speaker 1: it was about the music, man. I think it was
Speaker 1: a lot of other ship involved. Well, you you've got
Speaker 1: two guys just turning and found a way to make
Speaker 1: money with record shells and everything else. And they called
Speaker 1: it a beets. So now they got neighborhoods fighting against
Speaker 1: each other. So they turned it into a gang banging
Speaker 1: on wax type of ship. So now you got the
Speaker 1: bloods and the cribs fighting, and people was loving it
Speaker 1: and eating this ship up and buying all the music
Speaker 1: they can buy from both sides. So what they what
Speaker 1: they wanted to do. It worked because they made a
Speaker 1: gang of money off this ship during this beef. So
Speaker 1: you can't go and tell everybody were rehearsing this ship.
Speaker 1: We ain't really doing it for real, but this is
Speaker 1: just a show to make money. So all the guys
Speaker 1: in Compton, all the guys in New York, all the
Speaker 1: guys in the South Side, and everybody else, they believe
Speaker 1: in this ship is real. But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And so it turned to some street ships. They want
Speaker 1: to turn it opposed but it got music. Motherfucker's it
Speaker 1: got it got rapped, was involved, and they've been involved,
Speaker 1: and they're the biggest ones prom and I hate you,
Speaker 1: fuck you, I'll suck your white bulls shit. Who's gonna
Speaker 1: react to that that they're talking about? And they're eating
Speaker 1: this ship up? So here they are fighting and going
Speaker 1: at war. But now that's in the streets. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was some real ship, man, because um me and big Tires,
Speaker 1: Big sych rest in Peace. That was like my brother
Speaker 1: and um you know, he had told me a story about,
Speaker 1: you know, seeing faith in the actual hotel. I won't
Speaker 1: get into that right now, but it was some real
Speaker 1: dust being thrown like Motherfucker's really was doing some maniacs ships,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to win up the next man. So
Speaker 1: you can't tell me that that didn't You didn't hear
Speaker 1: all this ship going on behind the scenes when you
Speaker 1: was up in the magazine. Man, there, you can keep
Speaker 1: it real here, man, I'm gonna get you mikes man
Speaker 1: before you man, I'm going to let it out. I
Speaker 1: think how big as steal as it guy to him,
Speaker 1: but for real, for real, the only dame that matters
Speaker 1: is that he didn't put the bullshit. Yeah, he didn't
Speaker 1: print it. And that's one thing I was gonna commed
Speaker 1: you on, because you could have probably sold a couple
Speaker 1: of million extra magazines by just putting certain little things
Speaker 1: that you don't hurt. You could have made a lot
Speaker 1: of money. And you controversial and you know us here
Speaker 1: doing we do. It's a lot of ship we keep
Speaker 1: up from the reps that could be shipped. Like, man,
Speaker 1: if we put this out, this is gonna blow up.
Speaker 1: But we know the repercussions of talking about certain ship.
Speaker 1: You know, everything isn't cool to put out in public.
Speaker 1: You know everything in cool to put in public. Man,
Speaker 1: So this is going on, man, and we go touching
Speaker 1: another subject. Man. You see, as you knew ben Zino,
Speaker 1: your friends coming up from when you was in Harvard.
Speaker 1: Then you got people that come out and say that
Speaker 1: ben Zino actually extorted the company from you. And it
Speaker 1: never seemed like that to me. I always thought that
Speaker 1: was kind of some bullshit. I said with him, dude,
Speaker 1: seem a little too tight for it to be like,
Speaker 1: he don't look like he extorted the man, look like
Speaker 1: they're just doing business together. What did that come about?
Speaker 1: That that ever caused an attention between you and him. No, no,
Speaker 1: I mean that was never the situation. And so no,
Speaker 1: I never caused any attention. Yeah, because being is a
Speaker 1: good being. Is a dude that we know. You know,
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's always been corgied with us and everything.
Speaker 1: Uh and I think sometimes because he has that three
Speaker 1: D eggs to him, people try to put one thing
Speaker 1: on to that every like you never really spoke on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he definitely, Um, you know, people
Speaker 1: you know try to say a lot of different things
Speaker 1: those room as you're talking about you know, other things
Speaker 1: you know about him. I mean me and him had
Speaker 1: a had a friendship and turned into a business partnership
Speaker 1: and you know it lasted for a long time. Um,
Speaker 1: and uh you know we're not partners now. Uh. Beat
Speaker 1: that we haven't really touched on yet. But that's the
Speaker 1: new platform. Yeah, well we go we go land on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: wean't get into that. Um you know that's uh, that's
Speaker 1: something I'm doing. I have a new a new partner,
Speaker 1: guy named Kendrick Ashton, who was my business partner, is
Speaker 1: a really really great partner. And yeah, man, that's you know,
Speaker 1: it haven't always seemed like it was a Corgi relationship.
Speaker 1: Because business relationships in and stuff like that that happens.
Speaker 1: That's part of life, you know what I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a part of just doing business sometimes, So why do
Speaker 1: they always fall apart? Though? Why would? And I'm just
Speaker 1: I just want to understand it. You can't go in
Speaker 1: business and have so many business partners and have so
Speaker 1: many partners, but the relationships don't last. Why. I think
Speaker 1: A lot of it is communication, and a lot of
Speaker 1: it is the outside noises. I'm gonna tell you me,
Speaker 1: you and eight could be eight one, but it ain't us.
Speaker 1: If the people getting his it's the people getting in
Speaker 1: my ear. The people always on the outside that's getting
Speaker 1: in your ear. It's always somebody that's outside. They want
Speaker 1: to try to infiltrate their way in the room. And
Speaker 1: the way they do that sometimes it is by going
Speaker 1: to cause distinction amongst everybody else. You understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I've seen it all day. So I think as long
Speaker 1: as you keep your circle tight, man, I think that's
Speaker 1: how you prevent because outside influence and make you think
Speaker 1: you ain't getting what you deserve. Straight up, outside influence
Speaker 1: and come along and be like well ship, I know,
Speaker 1: a motherfucker getting more than what you getting, or a
Speaker 1: motherfucker getting more popularity do this or doing that. It's
Speaker 1: always the outside influence who manages to always infiltrate and
Speaker 1: make you start thinking that you're you know, you're not
Speaker 1: getting your just do. It's just it just happens and ship,
Speaker 1: you know, and then sometimes that leads to motherfucking frustration
Speaker 1: and irritation between motherfucker's because now you're always thinking like, huh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, motherfucking gold chain on that. Motherfucker got a
Speaker 1: gold chain on You got a nice diamond watch on them,
Speaker 1: but I ain't got no diamond watch on them. It's
Speaker 1: just always it's always a motherfucker. I don't give a
Speaker 1: funk who it is. It's always motherfucker who always watching
Speaker 1: what the next motherfucker got. It's usually a motherfucker that
Speaker 1: don't have ship. If you ever noticed, and ain't never
Speaker 1: no dude they're doing better, y'all. It's always a guy
Speaker 1: that's doing work. The question because you didn't have you
Speaker 1: have four partners doing your the beginning to now, and
Speaker 1: every time you lose a partner, do you lose the
Speaker 1: friendship and all that with it. I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: it's just a rough business. I know that. But if
Speaker 1: everybody be one hunted, the business state one hunting. That's
Speaker 1: why communication is important. Shoot me, I ain't gonna cheat
Speaker 1: you because I'm gonna tell you what happened. And I
Speaker 1: probably I don't even know much about this, but I
Speaker 1: beg you. I'm willing to bet that those partners that
Speaker 1: left you early on probably want to start their own
Speaker 1: try to start their own stuff up. They were the
Speaker 1: ones who started XXL magazine. It was a couple of
Speaker 1: years later, but that's what I'm saying. That's how it
Speaker 1: always els. You know, well, I'm gonna go start think
Speaker 1: even worse, something like you know, so, um they online.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's too There ain't too many magazines,
Speaker 1: it exists. Not everything is online now you know they're
Speaker 1: not imprinting out. You know that the thing is and
Speaker 1: that's what happens. You know, you get guys, but see
Speaker 1: you move kind of high moved because I don't respond
Speaker 1: to stuff like that. Somebody gonna do something, God bless them.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep on doing me and I'm ignore it.
Speaker 1: Outside lines noise, and that's what you kind of that's
Speaker 1: what you did, you know, because what you did for
Speaker 1: hip hop, no matter what nobody try to discredit you with,
Speaker 1: you brought it up a left. Let's like, you can
Speaker 1: honestly say that without the Source Magazine, hip hop may
Speaker 1: not beat with the deals today because you brought a
Speaker 1: light to it. Was no internet back then, people couldn't
Speaker 1: go online. But you put it to another level because
Speaker 1: you put it in front of people. Because of you,
Speaker 1: people found out about like m c A. And that's
Speaker 1: why I said in the beginning, it was even a
Speaker 1: platform for us as artists to be in tuned on
Speaker 1: other motherfucking artists. And with that, all ships so and
Speaker 1: so got a record out. Let me check that ship out.
Speaker 1: Oh they gave this motherfucker three and a half mics.
Speaker 1: Let me check this record out. You can see the
Speaker 1: latest ship motherfucker's interviewing and find out about the motherfucker
Speaker 1: and all that type of ship. So for to be
Speaker 1: an artist, we waited on the Source Magazine every month
Speaker 1: for the new issue. So the Source Magazine pretty much
Speaker 1: told you you need to step your game up. You
Speaker 1: could go through the Source Magazine when you see a
Speaker 1: motherfucker on that cover you knew that was the hottest
Speaker 1: motherfuck at the moment. Then you could read the other
Speaker 1: articles on where motherfucker's came from, how they got the deals,
Speaker 1: where motherfucker's grew up, how they was this and that.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You can see motherfucking ads
Speaker 1: about new ship that was coming out. All that type
Speaker 1: of ship was in there. But don't forget. You know,
Speaker 1: it was the magazine and hip hop music culture and politics,
Speaker 1: so you know, we had the social and the political
Speaker 1: ship running every magazine. We had the fashion you know,
Speaker 1: we yeah, all big influence in the fashion, and I
Speaker 1: did a couple of motherfucking fashion spreads in there for
Speaker 1: Pile Pile and all the type of sports we had.
Speaker 1: I started the sports ship y'all. Y'all had the unsigned
Speaker 1: height where you could you know a lot of motherfucker's
Speaker 1: that became artists and ship you knew about them from
Speaker 1: me because you knew they were unsigned artists. You could
Speaker 1: read coming ex eminem Hona Noriega, David Banner, El Santana
Speaker 1: to Electronica, hit Ball. I'm forgetting a few of them,
Speaker 1: but they all you know, sad skills. They always in
Speaker 1: unsigned height before they had their record deals, and we
Speaker 1: got a lot of those guys their deals. And you
Speaker 1: know what's dope about that, bro, it's a real you know,
Speaker 1: of course y'all was in the East coast, so but
Speaker 1: it's a nice representation of people from all around the country.
Speaker 1: You got the Midwest in there, you got the dirty dirty,
Speaker 1: and there you got you know, you got all these
Speaker 1: different people. You got a cat from Mississippi, you know,
Speaker 1: David Banner, you know. So that's what it was, dope,
Speaker 1: And I think that's why people fun with y'all. I
Speaker 1: think that's why people still fun with you to day.
Speaker 1: By the way, Glass Malone topny say telling that, I said,
Speaker 1: what's up? That's my nigger right there. Yeah, Jim alone
Speaker 1: toping to tell you what was happening. Man. So now
Speaker 1: you know, we're moving on with the sorce. So I'm
Speaker 1: trying to land in where we're at today, right, So
Speaker 1: we're moving on with the source. Y'all go through all that.
Speaker 1: You don't have business partnerships and then you have a
Speaker 1: cool kind of act, your own thing that you've built
Speaker 1: from the ground up. You have some motherfucker's from the
Speaker 1: inside to try to take what you created from you
Speaker 1: you're talking about the walk out of the editorial staff
Speaker 1: in the nineties. Yeah, I mean basically, Um, you know
Speaker 1: that kind of goes back. I remember how we was
Speaker 1: saying that there was these beasts going on with the
Speaker 1: different artists, the iced teas and the Cypress Hills and
Speaker 1: ship like that. You know, I didn't support that because
Speaker 1: a lot of it was based on the editors starting
Speaker 1: to kind of like you know, feel themselves and you know,
Speaker 1: people starting to get you know, thinking they were like
Speaker 1: the you know, the celebrities and going back and forth
Speaker 1: with different artists on things, and like I wasn't with that,
Speaker 1: so I would keep you know, going and telling these
Speaker 1: guys like, you know, we can't do you know, we
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing this type of ship and that. You know,
Speaker 1: it was getting worse and worse, and different situations kept
Speaker 1: popping up, and you know, these guys just weren't listening.
Speaker 1: And one of them was my business partner that owned
Speaker 1: a piece in the company that made it more difficult,
Speaker 1: you know, that type of thing. Um, So we were
Speaker 1: already were kind of at odds where they were trying
Speaker 1: to like sort of do the company the way they
Speaker 1: wanted to do it, you know, and uh so, um
Speaker 1: at the around this time time is when um Penzino's
Speaker 1: group gets signed to our CIA Records, that got an
Speaker 1: album deal, and you know, we want to give them
Speaker 1: a little article in the magazine. So I go down
Speaker 1: to the editorial people and say, hey, you know they
Speaker 1: got album deals coming out later this whatever, a couple
Speaker 1: of months, whatever it is, you know, can we get
Speaker 1: a little something? Oh? Man, fuck them, you know, we
Speaker 1: don't sunk with them. It's just whack. And you know this,
Speaker 1: And there was like some personal ship where you know,
Speaker 1: they were mad at me. They would you know, mad
Speaker 1: because they felt like they was just before they even
Speaker 1: heard it right, right. And I kept trying a few times,
Speaker 1: and finally it got to the point where I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is my magazine. I'm just gonna put an article in.
Speaker 1: And that's how that started. I put an article in.
Speaker 1: I got an article in the magazine that the editors
Speaker 1: didn't know about when it came back from the printer,
Speaker 1: and I went and showed it to him. Like a
Speaker 1: couple of guys just went crazy and started this whole
Speaker 1: cool I mean, like sent out this letter, five page
Speaker 1: letter to everybody in the industry saying all kind of
Speaker 1: crazy ship. Oh, Dave May's must resign. You know. He
Speaker 1: an article about a group that he manages to try
Speaker 1: to fire every last one of the other all this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. They come to the office, they smoke
Speaker 1: weed in the office, and this, that and the other,
Speaker 1: and these guys are are a terrible blop up up
Speaker 1: all kinds of ship. It started all kinds of stuff
Speaker 1: and then uh got people to sign a petition, you know,
Speaker 1: to try to get me to step down. But yeah,
Speaker 1: eventually I basically just replaced everybody in the source, you know,
Speaker 1: on it got bigger than it ever was. And that's
Speaker 1: what you have to do sometimes, you know, because they
Speaker 1: already had they had personal vendetta's in your mind, and
Speaker 1: people like that are destructive. They're very destructive. If you
Speaker 1: don't watch him, if you let it slide, they fuck
Speaker 1: your company up. So let's keep on going. We go go,
Speaker 1: and I'm promise you we're gonna lead this source area
Speaker 1: to go through this new stuff. So y'all have beef,
Speaker 1: which it's a beef that starts. A few bars get
Speaker 1: exchanged between Eminem and ben Zino. Benzino put out a
Speaker 1: lot of a record right this and Eminem and so
Speaker 1: Eminem is an incredible artist. But I think a lot
Speaker 1: of points that ben Zino had were valid points at
Speaker 1: the time. They were, you know, he gets away with
Speaker 1: certain ship that black artists can't get away with doing,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So y'all get this thing
Speaker 1: and interscope and they decide to Okay, we're not gonna
Speaker 1: run the more ads in the magazine. Right. What was
Speaker 1: the feeling that, man, Because it seemed like that was
Speaker 1: just like that was some some major ship right there. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean the ads were just the whole situation, just
Speaker 1: the whole situation, because I've never seen somebody to take
Speaker 1: them getting criticized so personal. It was like other people
Speaker 1: get other people. When you're an artist and you put
Speaker 1: your art on display, you go out there and put
Speaker 1: yourself out there, You're not just opening yourself up from
Speaker 1: the praise that you go garding from there, You're opening
Speaker 1: yourself up any criticism. We're doing this podcast, it might
Speaker 1: have a thousand lights on that motherfucker. It's always gonna
Speaker 1: be the one or two motherfucker's or that was some bullshit.
Speaker 1: I think it's one thing for the criticism but I
Speaker 1: think it's one thing when you have a personal issue
Speaker 1: with the way you feel about some situations, because you
Speaker 1: you're saying that you know, you know Eminem was able
Speaker 1: to get away with certain ship that you know regular
Speaker 1: artists couldn't pull. But ship. Look at who the funk
Speaker 1: he is. He was a big ass, motherfucking diamond selling
Speaker 1: fucking artists. You get me out the gate with that first.
Speaker 1: A lot of motherfucking artists on that status can get
Speaker 1: away with a lot of ship. You get me, and
Speaker 1: I just feel it. I mean it, Look at this ship,
Speaker 1: Kanye do as a fucking black artist, do you get
Speaker 1: me get away with a gang of ship? Motherfucker's on
Speaker 1: a normal page would not be funning, That's true. But
Speaker 1: but my thing here, But my thing is this though, Bro,
Speaker 1: how many artists did you see go try to shut
Speaker 1: down the whole magazine because somebody said something didn't like.
Speaker 1: You're always gonna have some criticism, And that was my thing.
Speaker 1: What about the president? Yea, because I don't try to
Speaker 1: shut your ship down, because shut the fucking ship down.
Speaker 1: Shut it down right now? You can't, of course, and
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be able to have freedom of speech.
Speaker 1: But really, can you have freedom of speech when motherfucker's
Speaker 1: are in power here? Because this seems like that was
Speaker 1: just real personal with me because he wasn't the first
Speaker 1: artist that y'all had comments about, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: The Mighty said some derogatory about and it didn't get
Speaker 1: to to that level, but when it was in, it
Speaker 1: seemed like it was just a real like a lot
Speaker 1: of personal ship behind that dog. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: like you know, we did a lot to help Eminem
Speaker 1: in his career, you know, and helped blow him up.
Speaker 1: He was an unsigned hype before he got his record deal.
Speaker 1: You know, we featured him an unsigned hype. Um, he's
Speaker 1: the first white person artist anything ever to be on
Speaker 1: the cover of The Source. You know, after ten plus
Speaker 1: years when he got a cover, he was the first
Speaker 1: white person ever on the cover. Um, he won Lyricist
Speaker 1: of the Year at the Source Awards. I believe in Oh,
Speaker 1: he's a rapping motherfucker. Dog. You can't dispute that he's
Speaker 1: a rapping motherfucker. So, you know, we really supported him
Speaker 1: for the first several years of his career. Um. The
Speaker 1: situation really you know, started around the time of the
Speaker 1: eight Mile movie. And you know that was when kind
Speaker 1: of like the media was going into a whole another
Speaker 1: level about eminem like, you know, he's the king of
Speaker 1: hip hop, he's the greatest artist of all times. This movie, this, that,
Speaker 1: and the other, that type of thing. I think that
Speaker 1: was the sentiment that kind of you know, Benzino was
Speaker 1: talking to me about and kind of got under his
Speaker 1: skin a little bit of feeling like, you know, this
Speaker 1: is just too much and this is kind of like
Speaker 1: reminded me of what happened with rock and roll and
Speaker 1: Elvis and things like that, and we gotta be you know.
Speaker 1: So anyway, he vented by making a little disrecord on
Speaker 1: a mixtape, and then, like you said, it just all
Speaker 1: of a sudden escalated like crazy. All kinds of ship
Speaker 1: was going on, you know behind that, and you know,
Speaker 1: one thing led to another. I mean it definitely got personal,
Speaker 1: which you know was not a good thing. But and
Speaker 1: that's what I'm talking about right there. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was nothing wrong with him being upset or whatever
Speaker 1: like that, but I'm like, okay, now, you and even
Speaker 1: you see in other situations, if someone says something against
Speaker 1: that dude, he takes it really personal and I'm like
Speaker 1: you rich motherfucker just kicked back with that dude talking
Speaker 1: about do your thing because he's the one thing you
Speaker 1: can't not dispute with him a win and go get
Speaker 1: things about eminem as. He's a rapping motherfucker. He could
Speaker 1: rhyme his ass if he can rhyme, But it's a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of other rhyming motherfucker's still You've got Xino Excel,
Speaker 1: you got rass cash dudes that rapped just as good
Speaker 1: as him, but never got the thing because he had
Speaker 1: a push. He was the you know a lot of
Speaker 1: people bought eminem albums that didn't necessarily funk with rap.
Speaker 1: A lot of them sales wasn't necessarily from the hip
Speaker 1: hop community. You get what I'm saying. So we get that.
Speaker 1: My main question, what that is you get in the scope?
Speaker 1: That's because he started paysing to that side. When Emine
Speaker 1: Them first came out to me, he was a rack.
Speaker 1: He was rapping. You know, I'm slim shady and that
Speaker 1: type of ship. When you start doing records about niggas
Speaker 1: killing themselves over you and ship like that, you're crossing
Speaker 1: over to a different side. Okay, So of course those
Speaker 1: other motherfucker. You don't think motherfucker's outside of hip hop
Speaker 1: start gravitating to a motherfucker was ready to commit suicide
Speaker 1: over nigger something. That's a whole bunch of you get me.
Speaker 1: That's some other side. But another part of that is,
Speaker 1: like you know, because they try to say that like
Speaker 1: the eminem made hip hop bigger by bringing in a
Speaker 1: new audience. And you know, my thing is, you know,
Speaker 1: any rapper before them, all the black artists that went platinum,
Speaker 1: multi platinum, you know, the majority of their audience was
Speaker 1: white consumers just run d MC all the way up.
Speaker 1: So that wasn't like a new thing, you know, for
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, all these white people to
Speaker 1: be buying hip hop, you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 1: but like you said, in my opinion, you ain't listening
Speaker 1: to black hip hop artists talk about how motherfucker's stalking
Speaker 1: them and ready to kill him and kidnap them over
Speaker 1: ship and ready to drive cars off of bridges in
Speaker 1: the rain because you don't recognize them as being a
Speaker 1: fucking fan. You don't getcause to do that type of ship.
Speaker 1: When you connect with that type of motherfucker. It's some
Speaker 1: motherfucker's sitting up really like that. That's when you start
Speaker 1: reaching a different side. So I get what you're saying.
Speaker 1: It's cool to have your opinion about, but god damn,
Speaker 1: you get me. Like you you're feeling like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: motherfucker taking our art form. He's taken on. But like
Speaker 1: you said, that motherfucker rap like a motherfucker. You know,
Speaker 1: there was no disputing that at first. There was no
Speaker 1: problem at first, you get me, And a lot of
Speaker 1: motherfucker's gravitated to him because Dr dre stepped in. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I member. Before Dre stepped in, he had ship that
Speaker 1: was mediocre. When Drake came in and gave him the
Speaker 1: two songs, it took him there straight up. So I
Speaker 1: get it. You can have that opinion, but like you said,
Speaker 1: it's personal because I don't think a lot of people
Speaker 1: were looking at it to where that's what media is
Speaker 1: gonna do. Though, media is gonna go, he's the great
Speaker 1: white hope, He's here to save hip hop. They don't
Speaker 1: like hip hop anyway, so why not picks some motherfuck
Speaker 1: off and go the white boy is here to save
Speaker 1: hip hop? Of course, And you know the thing, you know,
Speaker 1: I was working for a publishing company is A and
Speaker 1: R one time, and I was working to coming. I
Speaker 1: was working for was based in London, So I'm shooting
Speaker 1: up there listening to the nineteen year old son tell
Speaker 1: me about hip hop, and he tell we had dinner
Speaker 1: one day he said, well, Eminem saved hip hop, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fund are you talking about? Like,
Speaker 1: you know these says hip hop? So fuck Chuck D
Speaker 1: and Fun, Public Enemy and care as one and all
Speaker 1: these other people. Is Eminem. He you you should say
Speaker 1: he brought it to your attention. That was the first one.
Speaker 1: Your motherfucker's gonna how to speak still to speak, You
Speaker 1: have to ask it who the greatest of all time?
Speaker 1: And they're gonna say some ship like that, especially when
Speaker 1: they when they don't come from your official era. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So you get all this advertising money,
Speaker 1: and other people started following suit. Other record companies started
Speaker 1: kind of following suit because they didn't want to look
Speaker 1: like they was going against because then the scope at
Speaker 1: that time was the ship. There was the machine. They
Speaker 1: had everything over there. I mean Universal Music Group, you know,
Speaker 1: on Interscope, on Jam, on Universal Records. They had maybe
Speaker 1: seventy eight of the market. So but you know another
Speaker 1: thing about that is, you know, at this time, you know,
Speaker 1: the sources getting advertising dollars from so many types of companies, cars,
Speaker 1: soft drink, sneakers, fast food, so it didn't matter. Advertising
Speaker 1: was a small amount, so you weren't tripping. So that's
Speaker 1: why he was able to react. What he did was
Speaker 1: like fun, damn right, it didn't that. That didn't mean nothing,
Speaker 1: you know. And so you know, um, I managed Glasses
Speaker 1: Malone and he's on club out for the other night.
Speaker 1: He's in the room and we didn't go going through
Speaker 1: the detail. I guess Royce was in feelings because you
Speaker 1: was in there y'all having the cordial conversation, and I
Speaker 1: guess he kicked you out to kick you off the
Speaker 1: stage whatever. Right, because of that, man, all that stuff
Speaker 1: is still going on to this day. Is still that
Speaker 1: much animosity and resentment. I mean, not on my end,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have any animosity or about It's
Speaker 1: not obviously not you, you know the other twenty other people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that was just I don't know,
Speaker 1: he just I said something that he took in the
Speaker 1: fence and he started, you know, talking a bunch of
Speaker 1: stuff and then he basically just hung the phone up
Speaker 1: on me, you know, on clubhouse, cutting me off talking
Speaker 1: after he cutting me off. Yeah, that's a whole of
Speaker 1: the conversation. You know, I don't care about it. We
Speaker 1: get off of you something I really wanted to do.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know how I got into that
Speaker 1: room that night. But man, you're launched the podcast networking.
Speaker 1: No sex thing is bad advertising. That ship was everywhere.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you this, man, we could do an
Speaker 1: episode here talking about a cure for AIDS, talking about
Speaker 1: a guaranteed cure for cancer and talk about piece and
Speaker 1: all that ship. That ship won't get no attention. But
Speaker 1: if we got somebody here talking about who got they here?
Speaker 1: Bust that whose wife got plugged? Man, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: all over the place. So sometimes you know, it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's what it is, man, So let's think about this. Man,
Speaker 1: You've already accomplished something that was like you know, that's
Speaker 1: gonna go down to history. The Source magazine will be
Speaker 1: remembered two hundred years from now. It's gonna be spoken
Speaker 1: when they look they gonna do classes up in Harvard
Speaker 1: Yale and all that or wherever they do from school
Speaker 1: and how they they're doing school in the future. They
Speaker 1: go talk about it. Right now, you got your new
Speaker 1: venture man that you launch it. Man, you jumped in
Speaker 1: the podcast game Man. You have a podcast network. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's called break Beat, um and uh it's uh hip
Speaker 1: hop podcast network. Right now, we have eight different podcasts
Speaker 1: going on different types of podcasts. So we're doing something
Speaker 1: that are you know, visual talk discussion format type podcasts,
Speaker 1: sort of like you know these That's what we're doing.
Speaker 1: But we're also doing, um, you know, more of the
Speaker 1: journalistic um, you know, narrative storytelling, produced style of podcasts. Um.
Speaker 1: You know. So, so you're doing scripted stuff over there too,
Speaker 1: that's dope. I'm working on one right now. He's that
Speaker 1: they deemed to actually go be in They don't know
Speaker 1: what ship, but they go be in it, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, um so yeah, I mean, so, I got
Speaker 1: like a couple of hosts that I think are amazing.
Speaker 1: One is, um, Don't call Me White Girl. She's from Philly.
Speaker 1: That's our first podcast. Some of y'all know her, but
Speaker 1: most people know about why you're being weird of me?
Speaker 1: You know. Actually, yeah, I'm the whole girl. Yeah all right,
Speaker 1: so yes, she started all that, and she was on
Speaker 1: a million dollars worth of Game last year as a
Speaker 1: co host with Gilly and Wallow for a few months,
Speaker 1: and she was killing it on there. She's just super
Speaker 1: funny but super smart. I think she's gonna be one
Speaker 1: of the most successful kind of female hosts and talent
Speaker 1: in the game and not too long. So I call
Speaker 1: her like one of my unsigned hypes of breakbeat. You know,
Speaker 1: podcasting is an industry that you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, interesting things going on, but it's a
Speaker 1: place where you know, new talent can be discovered, new voices,
Speaker 1: new perspectives. UM. Podcast network is kind of like the
Speaker 1: digital magazine that everybody has been trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to do for years. You know, you hear that
Speaker 1: word term digital magazine, but it's never you know, we've
Speaker 1: never read a digital magazine. But a podcast network has
Speaker 1: all the different sections you know again, the music, the fashion,
Speaker 1: the politics, health, you know, sports. You know, we'll be
Speaker 1: covering all all of these things. Um bunchers with that
Speaker 1: hip hop style perspective point of view. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: um funny Marco is the other one I would call
Speaker 1: like my unsigned hype most of you you know, you
Speaker 1: guys probably He's funny as shit, and I just think
Speaker 1: he has a certain you know, comedic uh style that
Speaker 1: can be brought into the podcast world. And I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna get even bigger. We just started shooting his
Speaker 1: podcast in Atlanta last week. White Girl, Don't Call Me
Speaker 1: White Girl has been out already. Now that's on our YouTube. Um,
Speaker 1: you can check out the first few episodes of her show.
Speaker 1: Is doing really really well. Um. You know, I'm coming
Speaker 1: with my podcast today May show. I'm gonna be I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be recording that in Chicago every week starting um
Speaker 1: like next month. Um, you know, just me and conversations
Speaker 1: with you know, different influential people from from the culture. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, giving people a chance to hear more of
Speaker 1: my point of view on things, more of my experiences.
Speaker 1: You know. Even doing this like here tonight and the
Speaker 1: things I'm doing now is somewhat new for me. I
Speaker 1: was always like more of a behind the scenes type
Speaker 1: of person. I didn't really want to get the you know,
Speaker 1: the attention or the limelight. You know. I was just
Speaker 1: about building the business. Um. But you know, it's a
Speaker 1: different world now. UM, I feel like, you know, I
Speaker 1: have an important story of what I've done that needs
Speaker 1: to be known and documented in the past, but also
Speaker 1: you know, an important voice that I think you know,
Speaker 1: people will you know benefit or enjoy hearing in a
Speaker 1: lot of different you know ways through the podcast launch
Speaker 1: as well. Um. Then you know, on the scripted side,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the two projects we have
Speaker 1: going so far. UM. One is, uh, the story of
Speaker 1: Unsigned Hype column and the Source and It's dope. Um.
Speaker 1: That's an eight part series. We will tell you know,
Speaker 1: the whole back story of the unsigned hypeowers created, how
Speaker 1: we found these different artists, how they got their record deals,
Speaker 1: all the people that was working on those situations. That's
Speaker 1: coming out great. And then the other one, UM, is
Speaker 1: the Larry Hoover story. You know, we're doing his life
Speaker 1: story as a ten part series. Now. This is the
Speaker 1: first time that the family has ever participated in the
Speaker 1: telling of his story, so it's not gonna be one
Speaker 1: of the you know, same old story about Larry Hoover
Speaker 1: that you have ever gotten out to have conversations with.
Speaker 1: Larry used to call my house. Really if you back in, Uh,
Speaker 1: probably about to call me at my house for those
Speaker 1: conversations like new his son. Yeah, it's back when I
Speaker 1: was trying to start their little clothing line they had
Speaker 1: get prisoner. Yes, so yeah, I used to talk to
Speaker 1: him all the time. He used to just call me
Speaker 1: and we would have this conversations. Good conversations, right, that's
Speaker 1: that's that's dope, man, because what they did to him
Speaker 1: as a as a travesty man, it's like, um, and
Speaker 1: I think what our government does sometimes man, people that
Speaker 1: are influential, because see, I don't think he got put
Speaker 1: in jail for actual crimes. I think he got put
Speaker 1: it sent away for the influence that he has because
Speaker 1: and in the politics, I mean, he's the only person
Speaker 1: in our culture, you know, in the urban culture, any
Speaker 1: kind of you know, black gangster type figure that's ever
Speaker 1: really been serious about politics. They don't want you to
Speaker 1: know about about that. What he was doing that twenty
Speaker 1: first century and vote, you were making an impact out
Speaker 1: there like politically, and it was it was growing and
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, he definitely man because you know,
Speaker 1: you kind of need um. I truly believe if he
Speaker 1: was out a lot of this stuff because you can't
Speaker 1: prevent a hundred percent of everything. But I think if
Speaker 1: he was out, he has enough respect that some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that's happened in Chicago wouldn't be happening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think it would be a positive thing.
Speaker 1: And it would definitely you know, I've got to know
Speaker 1: his family really well, and um, you know, he deserves
Speaker 1: to be out and for the time with his family.
Speaker 1: So hopefully what we're doing and telling his story in
Speaker 1: a really accurate, in depth way like we're doing, you know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna contribute to that. Um. Yeah, you get principle.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they won't let him out. I mean, he
Speaker 1: has every legal right to be out now. You know,
Speaker 1: he's qualified on a few different basis with reform laws
Speaker 1: that have a lot of people on his case, all
Speaker 1: are out and you know they've kept him, you know,
Speaker 1: because they have a vendetta really and where he's where
Speaker 1: he's based at James, it's like on the inside of
Speaker 1: a mountains some ship like that in Colorado super Max. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like instead of and uh, the UNI bomber. I
Speaker 1: was out there. I didn't get this to go in,
Speaker 1: but I was out there a couple of months ago
Speaker 1: with his family when they were, and that gives you
Speaker 1: an idea, man, of what they think about him. Man,
Speaker 1: they put him in the super Max with El Chapo
Speaker 1: and the Union Bomber. They're saying he's a threat because
Speaker 1: he can possibly point those guys in the direction that
Speaker 1: they need to go in and see. Let's what I
Speaker 1: tell people a lot of times from at the time.
Speaker 1: There's no King of l A, ain't no shot called
Speaker 1: right here. Motherfucker's don't give a funk. They don't respect
Speaker 1: the motherfucker right. But maybe if it was that one
Speaker 1: person everybody was just scared of funk up ship wouldn't
Speaker 1: be the way it is. You know, you always have
Speaker 1: to have somebody's willing to that's um, not only feared
Speaker 1: man love, but respected, you know what I mean. Because
Speaker 1: it's a difference. Somebody's scared of you, they's gonna kill you,
Speaker 1: straight up. You know, you get killed by somebody, somebody
Speaker 1: scared of you. Um, when people respect you, it's a
Speaker 1: whole different thing, you know. And I think he has
Speaker 1: the respect to where a lot of this stuff wouldn't
Speaker 1: be happening going down, Um, And I think that's dope
Speaker 1: that you're doing that. Man. So how many how many
Speaker 1: shows that you have total now on the network to
Speaker 1: launch it off, So we'll be looking for more. We're
Speaker 1: already playing on the next next round. Sounds good? Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Can you check us out on all the podcasts apps
Speaker 1: on a break beat Media YouTube and you know our
Speaker 1: website breakbeat media dot com. We got this show, Trapping Anonymous.
Speaker 1: I don't want to forget about that. Trapping Anonymous is
Speaker 1: a dope ass show. Yeah, it was actually out. He
Speaker 1: was doing it independently for a while as an audio
Speaker 1: podcast and it got picked up by title. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: remember that kid. I actually tried to sign him when
Speaker 1: he first Like this is when I was young with
Speaker 1: Digital Soapbox. It was one of the most like it
Speaker 1: was some dope ship man, it was some real dope ships, crazy,
Speaker 1: it's crazy interviews. And so now now we made a
Speaker 1: visual version with him. Yeah, you know you blur out
Speaker 1: the person's face and voice. It was Trapping Anonymous. He
Speaker 1: really talking to motherfucker? Was this getting it in? And
Speaker 1: I heard that ship? I was like, what the hell
Speaker 1: was this ship? I'm saying, I'm gonna try to see
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna find it. Is he released it? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: not not the new ones we're gonna release, you know,
Speaker 1: probably also in the next few weeks that's coming. Because
Speaker 1: he's from New York, right, Yeah, because I know he
Speaker 1: it was some other ship. But yeah, he does. He
Speaker 1: does some good ship. I'm glad you picked him up, man,
Speaker 1: and if you yeah, we go, like, definitely we can
Speaker 1: have him on here anytime. He's more than welcome to though.
Speaker 1: He's more than welcome to come on here. You're like him, yeah, Chris, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're like him. Man. So as far as your podcast network,
Speaker 1: are you guys doing independently? Are you partnered up with
Speaker 1: some people? It's it's independent. Um. I have you know
Speaker 1: the one business partner I think I mentioned from DC
Speaker 1: my man, his name is Kendrick Ashton. Um, he and
Speaker 1: our partners. We have some strategic partners. Uh this company
Speaker 1: named DAX that's owned by Global Media in UK taxes.
Speaker 1: Yeah THATX is dope nipped him. Yep, yep. They do uh,
Speaker 1: you know, audio advertising sales. So they're helping us bringing
Speaker 1: all the answers and ads on the podcast on the
Speaker 1: audio side. And the pr X is also a partner
Speaker 1: of PRX is a really well respected podcast publisher. They
Speaker 1: got another dope podcast is over there to where they
Speaker 1: go talk to the brothers in jail and they let
Speaker 1: them tell their stories. They actually had her co host
Speaker 1: for the longest. James was a guy that was locked
Speaker 1: up and they was doing this show like remotely and
Speaker 1: he was her co host and they tell different people
Speaker 1: it's locked up and I forget the name of the podcast.
Speaker 1: I could remember, Yeah, I can't remember it, man, But
Speaker 1: it's a dope podcast, man, And it's so much That's
Speaker 1: the thing about the audio. That's why I'm so like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you want to hear earlier, I
Speaker 1: was telling Brown leading Mike's where they had because I'm
Speaker 1: really big on sound because I have to remind people
Speaker 1: first and foremost we are a podcast. The video stuff
Speaker 1: is cool, but we're a podcast. You know. We got
Speaker 1: a lot of truck drivers. Shout out to my truck
Speaker 1: drivers out there that's listening to the show driving down
Speaker 1: those freeways bringing us to step across the country. We
Speaker 1: get a lot of love from the trucks drivers, man.
Speaker 1: From the truckers, you know, people in their cars, people
Speaker 1: that people who just just stuck period and their cars,
Speaker 1: the vehicles. The prisoner tell me like man, I listened
Speaker 1: to y'all all the time. Yeah, yeah, shot shot to flip. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got a guy. We actually got some truckers. It's
Speaker 1: about to start putting our logos on the side of
Speaker 1: things like I'm talking about, like on the house. They're
Speaker 1: just showing love. Man. And that's the great thing about communication.
Speaker 1: That goes back to communication to have a message, you know,
Speaker 1: like now Like back then, it wasn't cool for the CEO,
Speaker 1: for the boss to have, you know, to be in front.
Speaker 1: But now with this right now, you almost have to
Speaker 1: because you have a message. You gotta get out and
Speaker 1: can't nobody tell you a story better than you can't home.
Speaker 1: But right you know you feel what I'm saying. No
Speaker 1: Nona be out here. Yeah. So are you guys doing anything? Um,
Speaker 1: Like as far as your podcast, you guys got people
Speaker 1: from all around the country now yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I got two podcasts go on in Chicago, I got
Speaker 1: one in Philly to New York, one in Atlanta, and uh,
Speaker 1: I'm out here the next couple of days trying to
Speaker 1: close up another situation out here. So I have one
Speaker 1: or two shows going in l A soon as well.
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure, Man, anything that we can do
Speaker 1: to blop you man with that, you know going on,
Speaker 1: you partnered up with some good people. Mainy thing we
Speaker 1: can do to help Man, You're friends. So yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, IVE been watching what you
Speaker 1: guys have been doing with this show and what you
Speaker 1: were doing with the network and everything like that. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad we got a chance to connect the show.
Speaker 1: We'll we'll find some things we can do together going forward. No,
Speaker 1: for sure, Man, for sure. You know one of the
Speaker 1: things I want to ask you, Man, we're doing this
Speaker 1: podcast network. Your last project, man, was pretty big. Everything
Speaker 1: you've done has pretty much been successful. You understand what
Speaker 1: I mean. Do you ever feel any pressure going into
Speaker 1: this man? Like, Man, I'm gonnadu to start the source Man,
Speaker 1: this podcast, we gotta crack off. I mean there's a
Speaker 1: little bit, but I I just you know, I'm just
Speaker 1: I just believe in what I've been doing. You know,
Speaker 1: I've always believed in you know, my my vision for
Speaker 1: these companies that I've been building, but this is one that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I just feel like this can be bigger
Speaker 1: than anything that I've ever done before. I just think
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, hip hop is bigger than
Speaker 1: it's ever been. You know, it's now spans three generations. Um.
Speaker 1: So the size of the audience globally everywhere is enormous. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, we're at this kind of you know point
Speaker 1: in the media business where like the playing field is
Speaker 1: kind of leveled. You know, these big companies don't have
Speaker 1: the kind of strategic advantages that they once did. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of you know, we have
Speaker 1: a technology side to break Beat that we've been developing,
Speaker 1: and so next year, you know, we'll planned to uh,
Speaker 1: you know, release some you know technology things, great beat
Speaker 1: app that kind of situation. You know, it's part of
Speaker 1: the future plans growth of the company as well. So
Speaker 1: you know, the podcast network is really the building block. Um.
Speaker 1: But podcasting, it's just it's such a such a powerful
Speaker 1: medium right now. I mean it's it's the highest advertising
Speaker 1: rates of any form of media right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: it combines, like, you know, so many different things. I
Speaker 1: just think it has a a big future and a
Speaker 1: big upside because a lot of people, you know, still
Speaker 1: aren't regular podcast consumers. So yeah, and even if they
Speaker 1: don't think they are, they are. It's rolling into it
Speaker 1: because um, you know, one thing I had to really
Speaker 1: because I've been doing this for so long. I was
Speaker 1: really just like against those things at first, the cameras
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I wanted to keep it all audios.
Speaker 1: So the first fifteen episode is against the chronicles. As
Speaker 1: far as a visual, it ain't no visual. It was
Speaker 1: all audio, you know what I mean. They still some
Speaker 1: of our most listened to episodes, but I think now
Speaker 1: as we deal with this generation, that more visible advent
Speaker 1: of these things right here the video was, you know,
Speaker 1: the video was introducing a lot more people because I
Speaker 1: was just kind of checking out. One day, I was
Speaker 1: messed around with the fans on YouTube and I kept
Speaker 1: dude inbox men and said, Man, how come y'all always
Speaker 1: just released five minute clips to the show. I want
Speaker 1: to listen the whole thing, I said. I've been for
Speaker 1: a few years and you always just put out five minutes.
Speaker 1: Why don't y'all do the whole show? I said, Bro,
Speaker 1: I sent them the link to Apple. I said, you
Speaker 1: can go listen to all these in futh right there.
Speaker 1: He didn't know nothing about those, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So you think about it this like it's you have
Speaker 1: to put it out on all fourmats now or you
Speaker 1: may miss something. Man, So what's the u r L
Speaker 1: to the website to break the beats man media dot com. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and man, for all those fans out there, don't be
Speaker 1: sending my man to know no um no trashy links
Speaker 1: man in your podcast. Make sure they're tight for sending
Speaker 1: this to dude the invented the source. Looking. We're looking man,
Speaker 1: looking for new shows, new talent, you know what I mean? Um?
Speaker 1: So yeah, please you know at what we're doing and
Speaker 1: you know, let us know what what what you got
Speaker 1: going on? Um, I mean, we're not doing music per
Speaker 1: se yet, as you guys know, it's hard. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to incorporate music in the podcasting
Speaker 1: because you don't have the licensing you know, in the the place. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, so I'm looking at different ways. You know
Speaker 1: that we will incorporate music obviously. We have guests, you know,
Speaker 1: we will have shows. You know. Funny Marco's got a
Speaker 1: bunch of you know, different artists that are guests on
Speaker 1: his show, and we're about to start bringing in some
Speaker 1: guests for Don't Call Me White Girl and things like that,
Speaker 1: and those would be platforms where you know new artists,
Speaker 1: even my show. You know, I'm gonna try to figure
Speaker 1: out how I can highlight up and coming talent um
Speaker 1: you know, within my podcast. I think that would be dope. Man. Well, man,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you having you on here. Man, and man,
Speaker 1: you come back anytime though, when you come back anytime, man,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, dope conversation. Man. But that's it, man,
Speaker 1: it's another episode a Gangster chronicles man in um. Yeah, yea.
Speaker 1: We ended like that, man, and I'm glad to be hell. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had a hyagus. I want to tell y'all we're
Speaker 1: back on hiatus. So we're back off hiatus, so y'all
Speaker 1: can stay at my inbox. We are back on. Like
Speaker 1: we can't take a break. We had to take a break, y'all.
Speaker 1: People stop worrying, stop wondering. I was getting them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had a motherucker cussed me out. He said, Man,
Speaker 1: still you suck him up. Man. They always have me
Speaker 1: like they know you're sucking up. Dog. I got this
Speaker 1: one dude, man shot. I ain't gonna put his name
Speaker 1: out there so everybody blow him up. But he's one
Speaker 1: of those fans that from the very beginning he kind
Speaker 1: of went with me. Then when we went through the split,
Speaker 1: he had his opinions about this stuff, and he said, well,
Speaker 1: you actually don't. You want a good job, man, keep
Speaker 1: it going. But then if something happened still, you gotta
Speaker 1: tighten that shut up, tell whoever that he was breathing
Speaker 1: on the microphone, and cut that ship out. So I'd
Speaker 1: like to call him the solid engineer. Shout out to
Speaker 1: my dude, man, but we out of here. Man. Well,
Speaker 1: that concludes another episod older the gainst the Chronicles podcast.
Speaker 1: Be sure to download the i Heart app and subscribe
Speaker 1: to The Gangster Chronicles podcast. For Apple users, find a
Speaker 1: purple mic on the front of your screen, subscribe to
Speaker 1: the show, leave a comment and rating. Executive producers for
Speaker 1: The Gangster Chronicles podcast and Norman Steve James McDonald, Aran
Speaker 1: m c A. Tyler. Our visual media director is Brian White,
Speaker 1: and our audio editors Taylor Hayes. The Gangster Chronicles is
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Media Network in the Black
Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you're listen to your podcasts. So He's rushing