WEBVTT - Trump’s Threat to Use Troops to Combat Protests 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.600 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.040 by searching Bloomberg Global News. This is the guy I've 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.440 been wanting to talk to to try and make sense 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.239 of everything that's going on a little south of est 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.040 down in the nation's capital. He is our Washington Bureau 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.720 chief and executive editor there in the Nation's capital. Craig 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.440 Gordon from Bloomberg Joinius on the phone from Maryland. First, Craig, 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.479 how are you. Oh, I'm doing fine. I'm out here 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.840 in besides of Maryland and the leafy suburbs, so I'm 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.440 plenty of plenty of removed from the action downtown, which 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.760 would be at three or four blocks from where our offices, 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.520 but of us have been there in about ten weeks, 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.559 so we're feeling, we're feeling okay out here. And tell 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:10.600 me what is going on. I mean, you've got a 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:12.880 team reporting on this all the time. I mean I 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:16.880 saw some pretty arresting images from uh Jen Epstein, who 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.280 I know, you know, works very closely with you on 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.720 our White House beat, and others who have been documenting this. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.160 I mean, what do we need to know maybe that 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.200 we haven't seen and the important context of what's going 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.559 on with the president and the response right now in Washington. Yeah, 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.720 that's a good question. I mean, I think the thing 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.120 that is important to remember right now is that Trump 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.920 actually does have a lot of authority to do the 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.320 thing that he said that he wants to do, which 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.960 is potentially send US troops into US cities to try 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.240 to sort of quality unrest. Um. You know, there's laws 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.840 that day back to eighteen o seven that allow him 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.600 to do this. Usually they're only invoked when the local officials, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.120 the governor, the mayor, um, you know, sort of calls 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.080 the White House and said some you know, kind of 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.120 sending the troops. Um. It happened during the Rodney King 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.640 riots in Los Angeles when Georgie W. Bush did it. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.000 There's some other instances scattered through history, but in most 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.440 cases it's local officials making their request. The law this, 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.560 you know, does allow Trump to do it if he 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:17.840 sees there's a need to do it or fields there's 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.919 a need to do it and essentially overrule the local um, 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:24.400 the local officials. So it's something we're watching very closely now. 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.680 Pentagon officials today held a briefing and told us, you know, 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.480 they don't think that they will need to invoke this, 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.959 you know, literally active military response. The National Guard and 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.600 some of these states and cities can probably handle, um, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.320 whatever the protesters can throw at him. But it's very 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.440 much alive question. And I think based on the reaction 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.000 Trump's reaction last night, he's kind of itching to do it. 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.000 So we're we're on pretty high alert for any kind 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.000 of mobilization like that. So, Craig, wouldn't you make of 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.080 what happened last night? So the President makes some comments 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.160 and then he does this walk from what I understand 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.440 an unannounced walk right across the street from White House 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.880 through Lafayette Square, UM to visit St. John's Episcopal Church, 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.920 and then he holds up a Bible. So, I don't know, 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:10.919 what have you heard about that? And what was the 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.680 president thinking? Well, what our reporter Jennifer Jacobs was actually 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.120 on the scene was in the press, you know, the 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.160 press pool essentially when um Trump made that walk, was 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.360 that you know, people may remember the New York Times, 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.280 Bloomberg and others reported that they had moved Trump into 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.280 the sort of underground safety bunker at the White House 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.080 on Friday night. UM, George W. Bush went there on 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.840 nine eleven. You know, it does get to Cheney if 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.480 you anyone saw that movie, kind of hustled there pretty 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.960 forcefully on nine eleven. So you know, it's used to 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.280 keep the leaders of the nation safe. Um. I don't 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.680 think that was really an image that Donald Trump wanted 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.960 kind of hanging out there. That he was, as his 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.320 own son put it in a tweet, you know, sort 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.720 of cowering in the basement while the protests were raging outside. Um, 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.000 outside of the White House, they seemed Trump themselves seemed 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.200 kind of eager to erase that image. And what Jennifer 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.480 reported was that In a meeting with the military leaders 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.320 who are at the White House to discussed some of 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.960 the response, he raised the possibility of of walking over 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.880 to St. John's Biscopal Church. And again, anyone who's visited 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.320 the White House knows there's sort of a park right 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.280 across the street, um Lafayette Square, and then across from 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.719 that is this church. I've been there many times on 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.520 pool duty covering presidents of the years. It's it's a 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.120 frequent Sunday stop um for presidents, not so much Trump, 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:27.680 but it is. It's sort of right there, it's in 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.640 walking distance to the White House. He sort of made 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.760 the decision he wanted to give it a try, and 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.359 when the President says that, the team sort of scrambles 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.760 to try to to try to make it happen. We're 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.760 trying to sort out today exactly who gave the order 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.960 or how it came down that the protesters were sort 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:44.720 of cleared out from the front of the White House too, 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.960 so that the President could make that walk, which is 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.279 sort of essentially across Pennsylvania Avenue, across this rather small 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.920 park and then right to the following corner. Um. There's 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.000 some reporting right now that are training General Bill Barr, 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.120 who people may have seen on TV went over to 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.400 the kind of view the side. Um, before we knew 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.400 Trump was going to make the walk, was the one 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.560 who actually gave the order to kind of clear the park. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.520 That's a little bit in dispute right now. We're trying 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:09.560 to get to the bottom of it, um in talking 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.839 to Justice Department officials. But clearly an order was given 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.680 because again anyone who saw the video and Jennifer Jacobs 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.520 was there for us, you know those um, those military 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.640 police cleared that spot out pretty pretty aggressively. UM, some 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.560 tear gas and riot shields, um, et cetera on what 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.359 at that point up till then, had been a fairly 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.200 peaceful protest. So look the imagery. If you're a fan 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.080 of Donald Trump, the imagery was probably pretty dramatic. Um, 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.320 He's sort of striding through this kind of um, you know, 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.359 troubled area where this protest had just happened, goes to 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.440 the church, holds up a Bible. Um. Obviously he's taking 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.200 kind of withering fire on this from Democrats who say, um, 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.760 you know, he essentially cleared out a protest simply for 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.360 a photo op. The leaders religious leaders, the Catholic archbishop 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:59.240 in Washington, the Episcopalian bishop who kind of essentially oversees 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.440 that church, you know, said it was sort of horrific 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.160 that you would stage a photo opertive religious site with 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:08.040 the with the Bible itself. So obviously very split opinions 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.279 on that. I think Donald Trump honestly thinks he had 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.000 a pretty good day yesterday. Right all right, So Greig, 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.039 we're going to get our conversation in a minute, but 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.520 before we go, just thirty seconds or so, what does 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.600 the president do today? What's his state of mind today? 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:25.840 From what you can tell, well, I mean, I think 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:27.280 I think you can say he kind of leaned into 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.400 it a little bit. He did two things, you know, 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.680 that you might say would be designed to appeal to 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.279 religious voters. He voted there's a shrine to Pope John 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.640 Paul the Second, now Satan John Paul the Second out 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.240 of northeast Washington. He visited there. He signed an executive 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.920 order on international religious freedom. So if anyone missed the 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.440 subtlety of his of his actions last night, he reinforced 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.520 it today with a pretty um direct appeal to religious 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.080 voters who were a big part of his twenty sixteen coalition. 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.279 Now we've been talking about what's going on, of course 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.320 across the country and President Trump and his team's wonts 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:04.560 to it. Vice President Joe Biden, of course also out 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.600 there giving some remarks on the civil unrest facing communities 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.600 across the country. He also wait in on the president. 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.440 Listen up, President, United States must be part of the solution, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:19.960 not the problem. But this president today is part of 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.520 the problem and accelerates it. Let's bring back Craig Gordon, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.880 Washington Bureau chief of Bloomberg News, Craig, Joe Biden, Uh, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.000 you know, obviously campaigning in a very different way because 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:36.200 of the virus. Um, I'm curious about how he addresses 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.680 the president and his reaction. You know, what it might 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.960 do for him, what it might do for the country. Yeah, 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.320 I mean Biden has been, as people know, kind of 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.120 in as a home and Willmington, Delaware, Uh, you know, 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.240 kind of laying love because of the coronavirus. Made his 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.640 first adventure out yesterday, and now the speech today, I mean, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:55.840 I mean, you know, Joe Biden has to give a 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:57.760 speech like this. It's kind of the tone you might 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.400 expect critical of Trump, kind of more you know, sadness 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.840 than anger, you might say, um, and and kind of 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.640 calling people to their to the sort of better angels. Obviously, 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:08.800 you know, Joe Biden is a very familiar figure to 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.240 a lot of Americans. Certainly people know he was vice 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.840 president of Barack Obama twice. But you know, I think 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.640 Joe Biden um prospers in this campaign just by looking 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.280 like a kind of a steady, sensible alternative to Donald Trump. 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.200 But ultimately voters are going to decide on Donald Trump. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.080 It's really this all elections referendum on Donald Trump. It 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:28.920 was we thought it going to be a referenument as 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.800 coronavirus handling. I think the marks on that are well in. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.199 There's a new mode. Let's pull out today showing people 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.920 in the USA the country is on the wrong track. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.920 That is that is a dangerous number for Donald Trump. 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.280 Posters always look at right track, wrong track. It's just 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.720 a very simple way for people to kind of express 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.400 frustration or fear about the direction of the country's going 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.640 at With three courters of the country saying wrong track, 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.760 that's extremely bad news for Trump approval rating, which is 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.320 very very low. So Biden kind of can you know 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.000 he can do well by just sort of showing up 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:05.040 looking steady, looking sensible. People know, well, um, he's ser 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.800 Barack Obama. No, well, he has ties into the black community, 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.319 a lot of support him on African American voters. That's 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:14.040 why he became the nominee. So I think he just like, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.640 don't make any mistakes while Trump is over here, Um, 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.920 you know, starting throwing gasoline on the fire. And I 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.079 think that that is all very helpful to Biden. The 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.439 the bigger, the bigger, you know, way Biden can win 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.080 this thing is by Trump's overreach and people thinking he's 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.199 gone into a kind of a dangerous place and taking 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.320 the country, as we say, down the wrong track. That's 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.160 all good news for Joe Bidens some presidential hopes, right, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.760 and the whole notion as we all know historically, you know, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:44.880 are you better off four years ago? Are you better 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:46.720 off today than you were four years ago? I do 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:48.679 want to ask you, Craig, before we let you go. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.960 You know that this relationship that the president and the 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:57.560 administration is developing with the nation's governors and mayors, who 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.319 certainly were at the four of the coronavirus respond an 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.400 hour at the four of the response to this We 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.000 talked at the top of the conversation about, you know, 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.120 the president's willingness more than willingness maybe to to send 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.200 in the National Guard. But what does it tell us 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.160 about sort of the more national political scene as we 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.200 do see governors and mayors and I'm thinking about Mayor 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.400 Bottoms in Atlanta and other sort of governors and mayors 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.920 coming to the four how does that change the political calculus, 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.640 maybe even when it comes to the veepstakes as they say, 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.120 excuse me, yeah, I mean the mayor Bottoms down there 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.680 in Atlanta certainly making a case for herself, UM to 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:41.720 be to get our look from Joe Biden, who we 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.960 know UM has said he will choose a woman for 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.560 his vice president for running mate. Um He's been encouraged 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.760 by some of his prominent African American sports to pick 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.400 an African American woman. He's certally got several to choose 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.080 from in Kamala Harris, Um C. C Abraham's also from Georgia, 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.960 a few people like that. I think what's interesting is 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.680 what we're gonna learn here is how far can push 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.600 the Republican governors. While we have been on this phone call, 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.160 the Texas governor Abbott just came out and said, you know, 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.440 we don't need the U. S. Military down here. As 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.920 he put it, Texans can take care of Texans. So 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.280 while Abbott was a person who was very eager to 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.800 kind of push the reopening on the virus front and 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.160 really kind of walking lock step with Trump on the 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.120 idea that we need to get the economy back open, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.000 you know, and balance economic needs versus the danger from 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.040 the virus on this question, he's destroying a hard line 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:29.640 and saying no, I'm not gonna go there. I'm not 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.880 gonna let US troops marked to the streets of Austin 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.840 and Houston and all the places Dallice in Texas. So 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.800 I think I think where Trump is right now is 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.680 that you know, there has been very little reaction from Republicans. 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.120 You know, almost none have criticized his actions last night. 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.200 Ben Sas from Nebraska is kind of a frequent Trump critic, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.040 no surprise there. But when you start to have the 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.240 governors were again right on the front front line of 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:56.720 both the virus and the protests starting to push back again, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.679 that that suggests um even they think Trump might be 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.240 over reaching a little bit here. And and that's pretty 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.960 hardcore Republicans. Now one of those voters in the middle 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.080 think they might be thinking the same thing. All right, 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.520 Craig Gordon, always a treat to catch up with you. 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:13.280 Thank you so much. Just love your context in your perspective. 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.720 Craig Gordon is our executive editor and Washington bureau chief 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.360 for Bloomberg. Joining us on the phone from Maryland. You 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.520 are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Well, we can't lose 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.080 sight of one of the other really big stories going 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.320 on in the world, and that is another form of 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:33.040 protest and another confrontation that's happening, and that is in 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.920 Hong Kong and with Beijing and everything that's going on 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.440 and the repercussions that it's having across the world. It's 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.600 the subject of a story in Bloomberg Business Week this week. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:48.160 Joel Weber, the editor of the magazine, joins us from Brooklyn. 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.560 Mark Champions wrote the story. Joel, help us understand the 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:59.079 backdrop here. So, uh, last week, pretty significant event happened, 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.839 which was, um, it really kind of looks like China 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.959 moved on Hong Kong in a way which has been 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:09.000 obviously brewing for a while, um for years. In fact, 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.520 um but it has really come to a head and 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:16.480 accelerated during the pandemic with this law that that that 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:21.480 China has passed um and the a lot of China 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.280 watchers and Hong Kong watchers are really fearing for the worst. 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:30.040 You know. It's really fascinating, you know, reading through this story, Joel, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.160 because you know, the more I read about it, I'm like, wow, 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.880 the similarities. And of course it's not apples to apples, 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.040 but this whole idea of just you know, moving more 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.000 aggressively into an area. Now you know, mind you Hong 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.240 Kong is under you know, the sovereignty if you will, 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.400 of China to begin with. But it is interesting how 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.600 China and President g in particular, are you know, seemingly 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.520 disinterested in what the rest of the world has to 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:02.840 has to say about They're increasing the aggressive moves. That's right. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:08.040 And and what Mark actually writes in this story is that, um, 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.560 there's a similarity to what's happening with Hong Kong and jeez, 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:18.040 you know, sudden aggression, aggression there or really just aggression there. Um. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.520 And and what actually we saw from Putin in teen 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.040 Um regarding CRIMEA, which also was sort of this this 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.120 chess move at Um somewhat of an opportune moment for 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.880 for him. And you know, the takeaways for both of 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.280 these is just that you know, while the world is 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.680 dealing with other things and looking away, there are moves 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.360 that are made that you cannot unwind. And that's sort 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.920 of what we're seeing here in Hong Kong, which you know, 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.880 you guys mentioned you know, there's this de facto system 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.200 of government there where it's sort of two systems one country, 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.320 and that's supposed to last until and what we're seeing 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.360 is that it might not last through the end of 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.040 the year. Really, um so, Mark, I just wanted to 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:01.800 bring you in, you know, you you I think we're 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.400 the one who sort of said, you know, this is 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.360 starting to look like a cremoment and and how how 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:12.560 has that sort of manifested itself from your perspective? Yes, 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.000 I mean that the key thing is, I think if 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.320 you think of this in terms of, you know, why 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.800 did the Chinese do what they did, um, and what 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:24.680 does it say about how they now view their foreign 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.760 policy choices and the West? And then you know, alternatively, 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.240 if you also think about, well, what does it say 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.400 about you know, how the West can respond and what 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.160 you know, what what can actually be done? Um. And 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.480 so if you think of it in those two ways, UM, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.240 there is a lot to be found in common. Uh. 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.520 So you know, for the from the first point of 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.640 view from the Chinese and you're what they are doing. Um. 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.160 This is a moment a little like you know, putting 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.840 in two thousand and fourteen where he took this decision 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.040 knowing that it would for the foreseeable future destroyers relationship 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.200 with the U for the West, but he had come 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.360 to a point where he decided there was you know, 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.080 that was what he wanted to do. It was actually 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.200 valuable to him to work on anti Americanism, and he 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.280 had also given up on trying to work with the US. UM. 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.920 And really we're at that sort of point, was she 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.360 now you know, after a couple of years of trade 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.120 war um. And you know, now you've you've had the 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.440 stuff with the coronavirus and Trump describing it as a 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.520 as a Chinese virus and so on, and the Chinese 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.880 are really just decided there's not not not much to 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.960 lose by doing stuff that the US and and the 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.320 rest of the West will really uh be very upset about. Um. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.080 And then secondarily they also understand, as did cut In, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.440 that there isn't much that the US or Europe can 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.000 can do to actually stop what you know, the policy 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.160 goals that they have, and these are quite historic goals, 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.240 taking CRIMEA for Russia. I mean in the Hong Kong case, 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.680 of course, Hong Kong already belongs to China. Everybody acknowledges that. 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:01.640 But but to actually you know, impose control on an 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.360 area that was becoming quite embarrassing for she He wasn't 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.600 able to impose an authority order and so on, and 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.560 so you know, in those two ways I think they 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.000 are it is a sort of very useful in Ana 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.000 and Mark, how does this how do you how do 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.400 you think this will play out for Hong Kong specifically, 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.560 and then also for those other places in sort of 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:31.639 Chinese um gaze, like you know, thinking of Taiwan for instance. Yes, well, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.280 I mean the answer for Hong Kong is is frankly 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:40.160 not terribly well. So if if you are a Hong 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.720 Kong pro democracy protester, um you've been parted this movement 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.919 which has been quite uh you know, formidable over the 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:53.400 last year, um, then you it's the implications of all 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.200 this a that China no longer cares to hesitate because 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.119 it doesn't worry so much about what it's gonna what 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.119 the rest of the world is going to think, or 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.800 what it may lose economically. And secondly that the US 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.399 UH and and in particular and the rest of the 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.000 West in general, UM will be unable to do anything 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:18.680 really for you. That these two things UM don't spell 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.560 anything very good for you if you're in Hong Kong, UM, 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.479 and you have to really you know, deal directly in 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:31.040 the end with she and the party in UH in 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.560 Beijing UH, and you know, find a new way, try 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:36.920 and persuade them. I suppose that you know that this 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:41.640 new law won't be so swinging, that it will destroy 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:46.040 the the independent judiciary and so on, that Hong Kong's 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.600 financial center and prosperity is based UM. So for for 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.920 Hong Kong, you know, there's it's a complicated future UM 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.480 and not not a very uh you know promising one UH. 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.000 And then for Taiwan it a little different. I mean, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:06.280 what the effect of the destruction really of the idea 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:11.359 of a two U two systems country in one country 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.240 two systems UM, that the effect of what everything that 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.880 has been watched over the last year from Taiwan. They 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.520 watched it closely what was happening in Hong Kong. It's 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:25.520 already been to really change the politics in Taiwan. You 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.800 had a pro independence president who was really trailing in 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.920 the polls quite badly last year before these protests really 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.560 got going and the police response got going. Um and 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:42.240 then in January she she won re election, and it's 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.359 really changed the way that the taiwan Is think about 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:50.120 the possibility of, you know, becoming part of that policy 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.080 of one country, two systems. I have to say, it's 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.880 it's it's very provocative and it does make me Mark wonder, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.960 you know, ultimately what's next in terms of this relationship 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.760 between China and the United States. I mean, there's a 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.760 line in there about China now being basically, you know, 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.360 America's arch enemy, which is not essentially where I think 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:12.840 if you go back a few years where we all 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.320 thought it was ultimately going. It's a must read. Mark Champion, 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.840 thank you so much, Bloomberg News senior reporter for international Affairs, 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.679 joining us on the phone in London along with our 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.400 Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Webber, on the phone in Brooklyn. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.280 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.600 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. It's time again for our Bloomberg 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:37.120 Business Week Small Business Survival Guide check in. For that, 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:42.119 we have Demetri Cassini's editor of Bloomberg, on the phone 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.000 from New Jersey. And so Demitra set this up for 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.760 us because you have very kindly delivered us, uh, someone 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.920 to talk about exactly what's going on in this very 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.320 uncertain time already an uncertain time for small businesses, and 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:01.359 it's only getting harder. Help us understand what's going on. Yeah, Jason, 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.159 thank you. I mean it is really um, you know, 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.840 gearing up for reopening. But the past week has been 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.719 a very very very tough week, one of the toughest 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.600 weeks in the United States, UM, following the killing of 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:19.760 George Floyd. Protests, peaceful protests and interrupted by people coming 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:23.560 in uh you know and looting and really creating much 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:28.560 more mayhem. And so this affects small businesses, um really 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:32.240