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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, welcome The Mother Knows Death. On today's episode, we

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Speaker 2: have a very special guest and we're thrilled to discuss

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Speaker 2: with him some of the breaking news stories from this week,

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Speaker 2: most importantly the latest on Ellen Greenberg. Joe Jacqueline is

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Speaker 2: a retired NYPD sergeant and supervisor of a detective squad,

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Speaker 2: dedicating most of his career to conducting and supervising major

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Speaker 2: criminal investigations. He was responsible for managing hundreds of cold case,

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Speaker 2: homicides and missing persons cases. Joe is the author of

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Speaker 2: two books, The Criminal Investigative Function, a Guide for New Investigators,

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Speaker 2: and The Cold Case Handbook. Joe frequently he appears in

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Speaker 2: the media providing expert commentary on criminal cases and investigative techniques,

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Speaker 2: and he is the host of True Crime with the

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Speaker 2: Sarge on YouTube. Hi, Joe, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Guys, thanks so much for being here. We are so

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Speaker 2: excited to talk to you about Ellen Greenberg. It's it's

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Speaker 2: really ironic that this story came out yesterday, because when

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Speaker 2: we saw you a couple of weeks ago at the

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Speaker 2: CSI training at Lake Tobias. You were in the middle

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Speaker 2: of giving your lecture and this woman started aggress a

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Speaker 2: little aggressively talking, yeah, trying to be nice about Ellen Greenberg,

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Speaker 2: and so I had I had messaged you later and

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Speaker 2: said I want to talk to you about this because

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Speaker 2: this is a good case. So Maria, why don't you

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Speaker 2: start off by saying the the update and giving a

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Speaker 2: brief description for I mean, we have talked about it

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Speaker 2: on the show, but just just to give an.

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Speaker 3: Update, yeah, I mean our listeners and anybody into true

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Speaker 3: crime will know about this case about Ellen Greedberg. But

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Speaker 3: back to the twenty eleven deaths. She was a teacher

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Speaker 3: who was in our area in Philadelphia. They have been

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Speaker 3: reviewing her case and deciding if they were going to

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Speaker 3: change the manner of death, and they have once again

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Speaker 3: decided it's going to be suicide, which I was very

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Speaker 3: surprised by this.

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Speaker 2: Joe, what do you think, Well, you.

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Speaker 1: Want to see my shock's face, Like, Okay, there we go.

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Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I didn't think they were ever going

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Speaker 1: to change the manner of death. I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: going to happen unless they are court ordered to. In

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Speaker 1: that respect, but that's not the job of the court

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Speaker 1: right to investigate something as a homicide. Here's like the

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Speaker 1: background on what is supposed to happen. Originally, that death

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Speaker 1: was declared a homicide right off the bat. The police

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Speaker 1: failed to do crime scene and all the other things

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Speaker 1: that go along with it, and when they found out

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Speaker 1: in the morning that this was now a homicide, scrambled

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Speaker 1: they run back only to find out that the house

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Speaker 1: has been professionally cleaned. So they broke a cardinal rule.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they broke a couple of cardinal rules. And

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Speaker 1: the first cardinal rule is you treat every death as

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Speaker 1: if it's a homicide built proven otherwise. And the second

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Speaker 1: one is you don't get a second chance to do

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Speaker 1: it right the first time, and when you have an

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Speaker 1: investigation go that badly from the beginning. This is what

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Speaker 1: we get. Fourteen years later, we're still talking about The

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Speaker 1: family is fighting this now for fourteen years different lawsuits

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Speaker 1: that they have all won. By the way, right, they

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Speaker 1: haven't lost a lawsuit yet, so this case is far

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Speaker 1: from over. But I think that they still have a

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Speaker 1: tough row ahead of them to hoe because this was

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Speaker 1: another big setback for them because the current medical examiner

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Speaker 1: is refusing to change the matter of death.

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Speaker 2: So I know the current medical examiner. I haven't talked

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Speaker 2: to her since she was a resident with me when

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Speaker 2: I was a PA, and so I haven't talked to

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Speaker 2: her about this case. However, I want to say that

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Speaker 2: I had X amount of residents that I would consider

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Speaker 2: to be good doctors, and I really thought that she

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Speaker 2: was good as as a as a resident and as

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Speaker 2: a fellow. I don't know how she's been in the past,

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Speaker 2: you know, twelve years, so I can't say, but if

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Speaker 2: anyone she's she was always interested in autopsy and she

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Speaker 2: was always good. I did all the I did so

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Speaker 2: many autopsies with her, and she was one of the

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Speaker 2: most thorough people that that I ever worked with. So

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Speaker 2: I want to say that. And I have some specific

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Speaker 2: thoughts about this too. I don't and I don't know

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Speaker 2: what your opinion is on it, but I could go

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Speaker 2: back and forth. But I'm not one hundred percent convinced

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Speaker 2: that she was murdered. But I'm also you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of in the middle, and I could go either

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Speaker 2: way with it. So I was curious if you had

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Speaker 2: a very strong opinion of what you think happened in

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Speaker 2: this case.

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Speaker 3: And don't worry, we won't attack you.

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Speaker 2: No, no, Well, the best part of your lecture was

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Speaker 2: that you seem to be agreeing with the lady and

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Speaker 2: she was getting kind of attenden and you're like, lady,

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Speaker 2: I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and that was the whole thing what she

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Speaker 1: was saying, or you know, wasn't I out of the

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Speaker 1: realm of possibility? Right? I mean, she was basically saying, like,

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Speaker 1: how could this not be? You know, here's the problem

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Speaker 1: with with what happened yesterday. Let's just talk about that first.

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Speaker 1: The medical examiner, unfortunately, is behind the eight ball. She's

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Speaker 1: dealing with a case that the body's not in front

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Speaker 1: of her. She's just reading from reports. She's just looking

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Speaker 1: at the old slides and the old photographs. As a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, according to the Philadelphia Choirs, she identifies

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Speaker 1: three more stand wounds, you know, making it a total

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Speaker 1: of twenty three. So you know, she did the best

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Speaker 1: I guess she could in regards to the situation that

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Speaker 1: she's been dealt with. Now that being said, you know, listen,

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Speaker 1: we could talk about the police, political pressures, and all

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Speaker 1: the other things that go along with it. The problem

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Speaker 1: is that I've said this before on other cases when

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Speaker 1: the police failed to do a good investigation or fail

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Speaker 1: to do their job, these are the consequences that you

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Speaker 1: have to deal with. We've seen this now in a

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Speaker 1: few cases that have been what I refer to as

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Speaker 1: celebrated cases. Not that because everybody's happy about them, is

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Speaker 1: that these are the ones that really catch media attention. Now.

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Speaker 1: Stabbing suicides are not, you know, out of the ordinaries

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Speaker 1: per se, right, they're very rare, but for women they're

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Speaker 1: extremely rare, and in the matter of fact, women generally

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Speaker 1: choose a much less violent means. And she also had

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Speaker 1: the pills that she had with her. I've said this

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Speaker 1: before and I've been on the record. The key to

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Speaker 1: this case is that inside latch, that they have done

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Speaker 1: a better job in trying to figure out if that

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Speaker 1: thing was really broken through. That's this thing. The hold

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Speaker 1: case lies on that, because if she locked herself in there.

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Speaker 1: They had made statement in the reports that there was

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Speaker 1: no disturbed snow or anything on the veranda, and so

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Speaker 1: that there was only one way in and one way out. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: there are no security cameras in the hallways. But the

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Speaker 1: fiance has a big problem as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: He stated that the security guard went upstairs with him

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Speaker 1: when he broke down the door. The security god has

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Speaker 1: now since written an affid David and said that never happened.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there, So to me, that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: big red flag. And you know, unfortunately, these are the

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Speaker 1: kind of things that should have been handled in twenty eleven,

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Speaker 1: not that Richard trying to handle this out fourteen years later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that as you brought up with

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Speaker 2: Lindsay look re examining the case and everything, I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of the the media attention is because of

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Speaker 2: some things that were mistakenly handled at the medical Examiner's

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Speaker 2: office as well. So there was a thing going around

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Speaker 2: that that wound that was in the back of her

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Speaker 2: neck would have made her incapable of doing any of

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Speaker 2: the other stab wounds, and they said that she was

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Speaker 2: already dead when she had that wound put to her.

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Speaker 2: There were also so right there. I have a question.

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Speaker 2: I have questions about that particular part of it, and

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Speaker 2: they said that there was you know, they said there

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Speaker 2: was no hemorrhage, which means that that she was already dead.

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Speaker 2: So when I look at this case, I look at

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Speaker 2: she had stab wounds on the front of her body,

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Speaker 2: and she had wounds on the back of her body.

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Speaker 2: But according to the first autopsy, they said that her

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Speaker 2: cause of death was because of this knife that was

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Speaker 2: in her heart. That was the fatal wound that caused

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Speaker 2: her to die. Because a lot of people here she

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Speaker 2: stabbed herself twenty times. Now you're saying twenty three times.

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Speaker 2: But a lot of those stab wounds were very superficial.

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Speaker 2: They didn't even go through her skin. So she had

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Speaker 2: two wounds on the anterior or of her body that

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Speaker 2: could have caused her to die. So if she was

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Speaker 2: found with a knife in her chest, then how did

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Speaker 2: she stab herself? You know, you would say, Okay, she

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Speaker 2: stabbed herself posteriorly and then anteriorly. So how how would

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Speaker 2: that have been possible if she was already dead with

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Speaker 2: the back wound? Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the theory, right you would, as the investigators

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Speaker 1: that you always is, you know, you show up with

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Speaker 1: the scene, you develop a theory. And one of the

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Speaker 1: theories that I think they should have been got with

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Speaker 1: she was already dead in the apartment. She was already incapacitated,

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Speaker 1: and there was therefore the lack of blood before all

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Speaker 1: these other stapounds, and that is something that needed to

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Speaker 1: have been done with the post morteminival. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: read that MLIS report, the Medical Legal Death Investigators, they

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Speaker 1: do a terrible job trying to tell us about the

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Speaker 1: post mortementival. They said that there's very little, if anything, unlividity.

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Speaker 1: They don't talk much about the riga mortis. They say,

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Speaker 1: it started, you know, it looked it was a little bit,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, but this was going off for over

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Speaker 1: two hours. He doesn't show up until well over two

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Speaker 1: hours after this person died, so we would have seen

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Speaker 1: some sign of the liver mortars. And riga mortis says,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, it starts in the body all

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Speaker 1: at the same time, but it's noticeable in the face.

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Speaker 1: There's no talk about cloudiness in the eyes. The room temperature,

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Speaker 1: the NBIA temperature of the room is sixty nine degrees,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of warm. She's wearing clothes, but she's

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Speaker 1: gonna heat it up. So you know, there's no algamortis,

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Speaker 1: there's no body temperature thing. And I know algamortis is

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Speaker 1: not the greatest, you know, determiner of the other time

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Speaker 1: of death. But take the temperature, take the core body

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Speaker 1: temperature right minus the three degrees, for you have her

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Speaker 1: based on the amount of time that she's been dead, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's usually said about a degree and a half

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Speaker 1: per hour. And then come up with something, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have nothing done with the post mortem interval. We

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Speaker 1: have no long we have really no idea how long

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Speaker 1: she was dead.

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Speaker 2: And then I guess another question I had too was

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you obviously you've seen the autops

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Speaker 2: you report, it seems as if there were two different

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Speaker 2: types of wounds. And it is possible for knife wounds

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Speaker 2: to look different because a person's moving and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's not a controlled environment. But in theory, some

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Speaker 2: of these wounds looked like some of them could have

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Speaker 2: been caused by a sharp weapon or a double edged bleede,

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Speaker 2: because they had two points on the end, and one

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Speaker 2: looked like it had a point and a blunt end

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Speaker 2: on end, which could have been I mean, in theory,

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Speaker 2: it could have been a different knife. So the knife

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Speaker 2: that she was in that was found at the scene,

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Speaker 2: we definitely know was used because it was in her

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Speaker 2: chest at the time when she was found, and it

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Speaker 2: had one blunt end and one sharp end, so it

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Speaker 2: wasn't a double edged bleed. So could that possibly explain

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Speaker 2: that there was that there was another weapon used as well?

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Speaker 1: Well? It could, right, I mean, this is where doing

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Speaker 1: a proper scene investigation and including you would probably have

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Speaker 1: had get a search for it because if you suspect

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Speaker 1: that the fiance was involved in this, right unless you

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Speaker 1: get consent, which I never liked getting consent when you

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Speaker 1: think there's a good possibility that the other person could

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Speaker 1: be responsible. I just we used to say, one in doubt,

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Speaker 1: fill it out, get the search warrant, get everybody out

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Speaker 1: of the house. Do you all let anybody in until

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Speaker 1: they can get the obtain the search warrant, and then

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Speaker 1: you do a complete search of the house. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we don't know for sure, but we've heard rumors that

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Speaker 1: there was a bag pack right like she was planning

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Speaker 1: on leaving, and all these other things that go along

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Speaker 1: with it. So once again, if the police failed to

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Speaker 1: do a proper investigation, these are the kind of speculation, rumors,

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Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it, that leave to

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Speaker 1: exactly you know where where we're at right now.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate you bringing up those details, and like you

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Speaker 3: said earlier, the pills too, because I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of coverage of this case is completely biased and not

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Speaker 3: bringing up her history of mental health problems on and off,

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Speaker 3: all of these medications, her wanting to move back in

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Speaker 3: with her parents, going to therapy, wanting to quit her job.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that proves that she committed suicide,

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Speaker 3: but at the same time, I think it's a huge

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Speaker 3: detail that's getting overlooked by a lot of people reporting

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Speaker 3: on this case.

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Speaker 1: Well sure, I mean, listen, you always try to find

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Speaker 1: what a motive would be if somebody would harmed somebody.

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Speaker 1: First of all, we know that we're harmed by people

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Speaker 1: we know. Most often it's devral around some sort of argument.

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Speaker 1: And I would say the trifecta, love, money, and drugs.

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Speaker 1: Those are the three things, you know. Do we even

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Speaker 1: have a toxicology report? I haven't seen it, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean there is. And what kind of what was

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Speaker 1: in her system?

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Speaker 2: You know, she had klonopin and ambient and when those

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Speaker 2: two are both their central nervous system, depressants and some

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Speaker 2: behavioral psychological effects include sleepwalking, hallucinations, engaging in activities while asleep, agitation,

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Speaker 2: moods changes, and depression.

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Speaker 1: Right, So then there that can meet a couple of things, right,

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Speaker 1: that she did do this to herself. She wasn't realizing

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Speaker 1: what's going on, or she was pretty much incapacitated about

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Speaker 1: what was going on also, right, So I mean this

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Speaker 1: is where you know, the investigators were supposed to shine

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Speaker 1: and be able to answer all these questions with the

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Speaker 1: help of the medical examiner. So now the medical examine.

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Speaker 1: This guy, doctor Osborne, who leaves Philadelphia is in Florida,

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Speaker 1: I think now right, has been basically forced to re

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Speaker 1: you know, look back his changing of the certification to

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Speaker 1: you know, something other than suicide was his response. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, doc, let's let's go through them.

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Speaker 1: There's only there's only five of them. For crying out loud,

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Speaker 1: it's non natural death. It's not an accidental death. He's saying,

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Speaker 1: it's not suicide. Well, homicide men determined are only ones

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Speaker 1: we have left, So pick one. That's what I wish

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Speaker 1: I would have been in the court room, because that's

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Speaker 1: why if I was a judge or said what because

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Speaker 1: you know, something other than suicide to me, just doesn't

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Speaker 1: fit the mold. Should this have been maybe undetermined from

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Speaker 1: the beginning, I would probably they have suggested that.

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Speaker 3: I guess that's why I was so surprised when they

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Speaker 3: confirmed it was suicide, because there's just been her family

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Speaker 3: has been fighting so hard, and I just assumed, after

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Speaker 3: seeing all this excessive coverage between the Hulu Docky series,

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Speaker 3: Nancy Grace's book, all the coverage at Crime Con, that

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Speaker 3: they would have at least gone to undetermined. But to

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Speaker 3: see that they're holding their ground was interesting.

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Speaker 1: Well, at this point, I don't think they have much

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Speaker 1: of a choice, right, I mean, they've already lost two lawsuits,

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Speaker 1: and you know, as you know as well as I do.

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Speaker 1: You know, the government agencies involved in is like you know,

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Speaker 1: the I don't know if it's damaged control at this point,

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Speaker 1: whether they just look really bad in the eyes of

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Speaker 1: the public, which they do, you know. And then of

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Speaker 1: course that leads to greater speculation and conspiracy theories and

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Speaker 1: everything else that goes along with it. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: a conspiracy person. I never really was. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: been involved in cases where I've been there and then

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Speaker 1: have seen the newspaper articles about it and Mendel will

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Speaker 1: these people even have the scene? I mean, like, what

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Speaker 1: are we talking about here? So things, you know, I

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Speaker 1: always said homicide investigations are like the you know, the

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Speaker 1: telephone game. Remember when you were kids would sit around,

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Speaker 1: you would tell the person. They keep up. By the

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Speaker 1: time they get to the last person, it's a total

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Speaker 1: different story. And it happens quite often because it's sensational.

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Speaker 1: It's something that people are really involved with. But you

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Speaker 1: have to stick with the facts. And then when you

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Speaker 1: don't know, I was I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, because you know, the investigation was so limited

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Speaker 1: into what they did, we may never know the real answer.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: And they're I mean, you're you're looking at it at

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Speaker 2: the police side of the things that they screwed up,

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Speaker 2: and I'm looking at at the Emmy's side like they

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Speaker 2: had so they had. Doctor Rourke was supposed to have

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Speaker 2: looked at the spinal cord and said that the injury

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Speaker 2: wasn't bad enough that she would have been incapacitated, But

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Speaker 2: then Rourke had no record or microscopic slides saying that

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Speaker 2: she even looked at the case, and that lady is awesome.

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Speaker 2: I've worked with her too. She would she was so good.

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Speaker 2: So and then so then when they re examined it later,

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Speaker 2: they're saying, well, there was a cut there through the

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Speaker 2: spinal cord that would have been capacitated her and there

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Speaker 2: was no hemorrhage. So that's where she said, Okay, she

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Speaker 2: was already dead when she got that wound, and she

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have been able to move her arms anyway. But

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Speaker 2: when I think about that, I think, well, what that

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Speaker 2: could have been made by a scalpel blade at the

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Speaker 2: time of autopsy. If you're talking about a slice through

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Speaker 2: something through with a sharp a sharp injury, right that

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Speaker 2: has no blood. That's something we could have done by

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Speaker 2: accident at the time of taking out the spinal cord.

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Speaker 2: And that's such a big thing that's been especially I've

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Speaker 2: heard on the news with people that just are adamant

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Speaker 2: that this is a suicide, that that this was not

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Speaker 2: She was not able to move her arms and she

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Speaker 2: was already dead when she and it's like that could

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Speaker 2: have been artifact and that could have nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with anything. And you know, but then you go back

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Speaker 2: and forth because you're like, Okay, she had no defense wounds, right,

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Speaker 2: just classic things you would see when a person gets stabbed.

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Speaker 2: But her boyfriend was also mad, shady and acting I

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Speaker 2: think weird.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, listen, if you remember what I said

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Speaker 1: just a little while ago, was she incapacitated before this,

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Speaker 1: and that would be the lack of defensive wounds, right. So,

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Speaker 1: and once again, the time of death, if if you

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Speaker 1: would have been able to put the time of death

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Speaker 1: sooner than the eighteen thirty three hours phone call, six

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Speaker 1: thirty three pm phone call, right the half an hour

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Speaker 1: before that, because based on the changes of the body

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Speaker 1: and everything else that you see, well, you know, now

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a whole different story and I think

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Speaker 1: a whole different investigation at that point. And remember too,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you've read the report from the MLI report,

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Speaker 1: because I actually went to the scene, I went to

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Speaker 1: Manniyunk and I went there and it was it was

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Speaker 1: one of the worst snowstorms that Philadelphia has ever had

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Speaker 1: according to the news that night. And then this snow

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Speaker 1: had in the rain and the sleet had already started

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Speaker 1: when this was happening. But according to the MLI report,

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Speaker 1: the nine one one cool comes at it in eighteen

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Speaker 1: thirty three hours, and she's pronounced dead by a medic

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Speaker 1: at eighteen forty hours. So you're telling me that the

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Speaker 1: ambulance was able to get there within seven minutes and

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Speaker 1: pronounce her dead in a storm. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: if you have you driven to that location. Philadelphia is

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Speaker 1: famous for these speed humps, and I mentioned that in

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Speaker 1: the talk right call a speed hump. I don't know why. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's a bump, folks, for those in Philadelphia, it's a bump,

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Speaker 1: not a hump. And the issue that comes down to

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Speaker 1: is like, try to drive this narrow street in bad

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Speaker 1: weather and do all this in seven minutes. Go up

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Speaker 1: to get in, take.

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Speaker 4: Out the the the journey thing, Gerty, thank you, Take

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Speaker 4: out to Gerty, Get into the building, how the security

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Speaker 4: God bring the elevator down, Get into the elevator, get

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Speaker 4: inside in the apartment, and do all this in seven minutes.

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Speaker 1: I find it unlikely. I find that that timeline is way.

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Speaker 1: That's just me, well, Manny younk.

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Speaker 3: In particular, my husband works right by the apartment building

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Speaker 3: and it is horrible the road.

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Speaker 2: It's hell when it's not snowing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So the timeline, doesn't it

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Speaker 1: yet that place is awful to get.

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Speaker 3: To, awful, awful to drive around on the most beautiful

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Speaker 3: day in the world. So I agree with you, it

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Speaker 3: does seem off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And he one of the things I thought was

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Speaker 2: really interesting is when the nine one one call, when

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Speaker 2: he was like, oh, she stabbed herself. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it just it sounded.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He actually had the nerve to say that she

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Speaker 1: fell on a knife, and he has he called it

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Speaker 1: her knife.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. It's just weird because I think that if you

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Speaker 2: found anyone stabbed to death, your first thought would be

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Speaker 2: that someone did it to them. Why would you think

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Speaker 2: unless she threatened to kill herself for like, why would

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Speaker 2: you why would that be your first thought?

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Speaker 1: You know, It's just it's just weir And knives are

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Speaker 1: up close in personal weapons. I mean they are usually

403
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Speaker 1: when you when you have them, they usually like crimes

404
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Speaker 1: are passion that people know each other very well. I

405
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Speaker 1: would say, strangers don't get that. Don't get that mad

406
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Speaker 1: at each other. You know, this is not like a

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Speaker 1: gunshot from across the room. This is something when you

408
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Speaker 1: if somebody is stabbed, when not saying that happens in

409
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Speaker 1: this case, but it generally means that it is somebody

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Speaker 1: a significant other that we have seen from time to time,

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Speaker 1: and that's just based on experience, of course, and there

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Speaker 1: are outliers.

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Speaker 2: So is this guy still involved? I mean, I know

414
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Speaker 2: they keep revisiting the case, but I mean if he

415
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Speaker 2: was cleared as a suspect, then he he's just kind

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Speaker 2: of living his life and moved on from this and

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Speaker 2: doesn't have any real involvement with it anymore.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, he's never been named as a suspect, that's

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Speaker 1: the first thing. And second of all, the police always

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Speaker 1: say that the person is not a suspect because there's

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Speaker 1: two reasons for that. One, even if they are a suspect,

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Speaker 1: you don't tell people that publicly because then there's a

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Speaker 1: chance of hiding evidence and stuff like that. And second

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Speaker 1: of all, once somebody becomes a focus of an investigation,

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Speaker 1: there are mirandaized that kick in and then if you

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Speaker 1: want to talk to them, you can't talk to him

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Speaker 1: unless their lawyer is present. So there are legal reasons,

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Speaker 1: there are investigative reasons, and nobody has ever discounted as

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Speaker 1: a as a suspect per se. But when you have

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Speaker 1: something labeled as a suicide, there is no suspect, all right,

431
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Speaker 1: it's somebody. The definition is somebody takes their own life

432
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: and that's it. There's no crime. So in that respect, yes,

433
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: he isn't a suspect. He's not responsible for her death

434
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: as according to the official record.

435
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 2: Do you find that a lot of these cases that

436
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 2: are such high profile, like one specific one that Maria

437
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 2: and I were always thinking about was the Karen Reid trial,

438
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 2: that you do you think that they're just there's so

439
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: much doubt because of the botched police job in the beginning, right.

440
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and that's you know, when I was talking

441
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: about other cases reached leap, That's that is the case

442
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, and I and I've been I was

443
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: very vocal on the beginning of that case too, and

444
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: I actually I predicted both times that she was going

445
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: to be found as a hung jury and a not

446
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 1: guilty only because the police once again did not do

447
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: their job that they did starting from the very beginning.

448
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: I mean, if you recall in that case, in the

449
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: Kara Ree case, the defense came up and said that

450
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: basically this was a big conspiracy theory, big cover up,

451
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: and then went on in the first three days of

452
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 1: the trial to prove how incompetent the police were. So

453
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: to me it was and I was saying this when

454
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 1: we were doing court tvia. I'm like, how could you

455
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,959
Speaker 1: tell the world that these people are the greatest conspiracy

456
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: theory people but then telling them they are a bunch

457
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: of keystone bumbling cops. It just doesn't make any sense.

458
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 3: It is a really good point.

459
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: Well, I try to say, you know, and I kind

460
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: of pride myself in being firmly in the in the ground,

461
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, in in the realities. You know, Let's look

462
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: at what we know and as what I say, we

463
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 1: know us at the public right where not privy to

464
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: the police reports and what was at to see. We're

465
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: only able to make determinations about what the media tells

466
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: us or what the court documents say. And everything that

467
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: we say, of course is opinion, right, because that's all

468
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: we can say. We don't know for sure. But I

469
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: used to do this for a living, and I and

470
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: these are the kind of things that you know, you

471
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: have to stay grounded into what you know. Let's not

472
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: get so far off into the atmosphere. And I'm sure

473
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: you know this, right when when there is a homicide.

474
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: You know, the detectives get together and they have like

475
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 1: this huddle, so to speak, and you come up with

476
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: your theories, and you come up with it, what do

477
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: you think happened? And you know, there's always say there's

478
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 1: always one detective that will say, you know it was

479
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 1: you know, some alien spaceship came into it, and you

480
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: would everyone would just look at this person and go, okay, whatever.

481
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: So and I would say, where do we get cops from.

482
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: We get them from the community. So if we have

483
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: the spaceship guy in the police department, we also have

484
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: the spaceship guy out in the real world too. So

485
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: you have to deal with these kind of things. And

486
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: I've said this on many occasions. I think it would

487
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: be it's very difficult for investigators to deal with the

488
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: amount of social media pressure now and the amount of uh,

489
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: you know, TV shows and newscasts that are strictly related

490
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: to this stuff. Excuse me, especially like you so like

491
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: the Brian Colberger case, it's a tremendous amount of pressure,

492
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: and I worry about mistakes being made because of that

493
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: pressure and people saying things in the public form, meaning uh,

494
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: you know, the mayors and the you know, and the

495
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: politicians of the police is saying something that they shouldn't

496
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: say because they're just trying to answer out what's going

497
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: on in the social media world.

498
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 2: I was just thinking about that with with Lindsey the

499
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: the medical examiner who just recertified the death, because I'm

500
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: just like her, She's going to get attacked really bad,

501
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: Oh my godness. And it's just it's not fair. It's

502
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: not fair. Like she she was when that happened. She

503
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: was a resident with me at the hospital. I know

504
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: exactly where she was. She had nothing to even be

505
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 2: at that office yet, and it just sucks that that

506
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. She was gonna be screwed either way,

507
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: no matter what she said, she would be screwed. And

508
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: it's just it's unfortunate how things go around social media

509
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: like that.

510
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: Oh.

511
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: I think, like take, for example, the woman at the

512
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: at your lecture a couple of weeks ago, right, people

513
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: are so passionate about this, and I've been seeing on

514
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 3: social media already in the last twenty four hours. I'm

515
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 3: going to look into her background, what's her husband do,

516
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 3: what's her family do, what's her angle? And I'm like,

517
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: she's just trying to do her job and do the

518
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 3: proper thing. We don't need to attack everybody.

519
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: Sorry if you're talking over there for a second, But

520
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: that's why I had said what I said before. She, folks,

521
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: Gene is behind the april.

522
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 3: Here.

523
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: She's dealing with an oltappy that was done fourteen years

524
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: ago by someone else. She doesn't have the body. All

525
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: she has is pieces of paper and hopefully photographs and

526
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: slides and all those other things. And let me tell

527
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: you something, it's not that easy. It's like how we

528
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: would reopen when I was the commanding officer of the

529
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: Bronx cold case squad. We didn't have a crime scene

530
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: to go to. We didn't have a medical examiner to

531
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: talk too, we didn't have any of that. All we

532
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: had was photographs and reports, and a lot of times

533
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: the people who did the autopsies or did those initial

534
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: investigations were no longer alian, So I mean took about

535
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: being behind an april. So it's very difficult for this

536
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: medical examiner to do anything other than just looking at

537
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: the pieces of paper that she has and making a

538
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: professional determination. And she should not be attached to that.

539
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: She's only doing what she can do based on the

540
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: cards that she's been dealt with absolutely.

541
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: This episode is brought to you by the Grocery Room guys.

542
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: As we have been talking about in this episode, Ellen Greenberg,

543
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: we have a two part high profile death dissection in

544
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: the Grossroom on this case, where we go through all

545
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: of the details of the case, the police reports, the

546
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: autopsy reports, all of the changes, and all of the theories.

547
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 2: That is really spelled out for you just so much

548
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: more than we could even talk about on this episode,

549
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: and you could look at the facts from each side

550
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: and decide for yourself what you really think happened. And

551
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: I am curious to get your feedback to see what

552
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: you guys think, so you could check that out. In

553
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: the Grossroom. Every week we do a new high profile

554
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: death dissection, or we do a celebrity death dissection, and

555
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: this week we did psychic Sylvia Brown and it's one

556
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: of the most outrageous dissections that we've ever done. It's

557
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: really hard to believe that this woman was on primetime

558
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: TV shooting out the shit that she was, honestly, So

559
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: check that out.

560
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: Head over to the Grossroom dot com now to sign up.

561
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: Speaking of another botched investigation, Joan Kennedy died this week

562
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: and it just brought back memories of one of my

563
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: favorite uh deaths involving the Kennedy family. There's just so

564
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: many to choose from, but this is one particular one,

565
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: and she was semi involved. She was at least married

566
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: to Tag Kennedy at the time of this particular incident

567
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: that happened at chap Equitics. So would you think about

568
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: that investigation?

569
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, marry Djokob Petney, Right, I mean yeah, talk about well,

570
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: if you think about this, this this somewhat parallels I mean, yes,

571
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: not at the same kind of thing, but I'm talking

572
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: about with the public things as political involvement in political

573
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: political pressure. Right. So here you have the president of

574
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: the former the United States. He's a state senator from Massachusetts.

575
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: He's with a woman in his car that's not his wife.

576
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: He makes a specific statement the reason why his wife

577
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: wasn't fair. But there are a lot of problems with

578
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: his story that Ted Kennedy gave. And for those that

579
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: don't know, Ted Kennedy almost became president too. So, I mean,

580
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: here's the deal with this whole thing. None of the

581
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: story ends up. And the reason is this two stories.

582
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: Ted Kennedy tells the police. One story, he tells in

583
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: his famous speech to the national audience, a different story.

584
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: There are so many things left out of this, and

585
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: people could draw whatever conclusions that they want, But there

586
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: were a lot of holes and a lot of red

587
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: flags in his story.

588
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: That case, to me was so interesting because of the

589
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: response from the medical examiner. So I guess there was

590
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: a medical examiner for the island of Martha's Vineyard and

591
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: chap Equittic and that person was unavailable. So then they

592
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: got the assistant who was not a forensic pathologist, not

593
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: even a pathologist at all. He was just a general doctor.

594
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: He was at a hospital taking care of patients and

595
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: delivering a baby when he got called to come over.

596
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: They pulled their body out of the water and they

597
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: he gave her an external exam, only didn't take off

598
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: her clothes, and was like, yeah, she drowned. It's it's

599
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: outrageous that that happened.

600
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: Well, there's there's other theories that go along with that too, right,

601
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: that she was already dead before they went into the water.

602
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean back at the at the apartment

603
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: or wherever you were, the cottage that they were at.

604
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: Mary Joe's pocketbook was there as long as her keys right.

605
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: So I always say, what woman do you know that

606
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: leaves the house or leaves somebody's apartment, or what have

607
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: you without their pocketbook and keys?

608
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: Right?

609
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: How many? Zero? The answer is don't even bother looking

610
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: for an answer. So it would be like today what

611
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: a cell phone?

612
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: Right?

613
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: What woman leaves their cell phone behind? Or what personally

614
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: their cell phone behind? Zero? Many of us who have

615
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: forgotten our cell phones have driven like a half an

616
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: hour back home to go get so you know, there

617
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: are certain things that aren't left behind. Once again part

618
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: of the investigation. There are timeline problems. And then even

619
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: if when you look and exact in his speech that

620
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: he gave to the nation, listen, remember we were kids

621
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: and you had to write a story, and they always

622
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: tell you, you know, the beginning, the middle, and the end, right,

623
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: the introduction, body, and conclusion. When you get a statement

624
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: from somebody who might or may have been involved in

625
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: a criminal act, you always look at those stories. And

626
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: if you notice about one thing about his story is

627
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: that in the very beginning of a story, the introduction

628
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 1: is huge, the actual event is really small, and the

629
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: after fact is even longer than the introduction, So yeah,

630
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: because he was basically, remember in the last half of

631
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: it is about how much of a hero he was.

632
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,239
Speaker 1: He was diving back to the bottom of the car.

633
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: Remember this was pitch black, but he was able to

634
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: see that the car had turned upside down, it was

635
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: laying on the rocks. He died down so many times

636
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: he was able to see all this in the pitch

637
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: black in the water, right, yeah, okay, And he also

638
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: said this happened around eleven ten or eleven fifty. There's

639
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: a sheriff's deputy has said that he saw a car

640
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: that matched a similar thing around twelve forty, right, So

641
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: there's another hour half missing there. And then when he

642
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: gets out of the water, apparently he decides to walk

643
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: back to the cottage. Now he tends that he goes

644
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: back and he gets two of the guys there to

645
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: go back and search, and they would dive into the

646
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 1: water to try to get to marry Jokapecney and that

647
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 1: didn't happen either. The old decided to go home, go

648
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: to sleep, get some rest, and then wake up in

649
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: the morning. Then he doesn't call the police yet, he

650
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: calls the police, not until he calls his lawyer first,

651
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: then he calls the police. So this is like a

652
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: ten hour delay in all this stuff. And oh my gosh. Right,

653
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: so there are all odds of issues. People say this

654
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen today. I say never, say never, never, say always. No.

655
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: Seriously, we went to chap Equittic to just I was

656
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: just like, I gotta check this out, and think it

657
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: is so hard to get there in two thousands. I

658
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: went with twenty twenty or something like that. Right, you

659
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: have to take you have to drive to Massachusetts, which

660
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: just sucks having to do that drive. Then you have

661
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: to get on a ferry to go to Martha's vineyard.

662
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: Then you have to get on another ferry to go

663
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: to chap Equitic And I was just thinking, like, God,

664
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine what this was in nineteen sixty nine.

665
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: I personally think that he. I mean, they were there

666
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: to mess around with these girls. Come on, they were

667
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: all in their twenties and they were all single. The

668
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: girls and the men were all over thirty five, and

669
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: five of the six of them were married. Like, it's

670
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: just that doesn't happen.

671
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: In really incredibly inappropriate to be in that setting too.

672
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 3: And then he wasn't he saying he was dropping her

673
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: back off at the hotels she was staying, Well, how

674
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: is she supposed to get in without her person keys?

675
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: Exactly the point you're making.

676
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like I said, there's so many, there's a lot.

677
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: I was say. My line is this so many red flegs,

678
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: it looks like China. So you know, and that's just

679
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: not that's not all of the red flags in there.

680
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean, he goes on to explain about he does

681
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: a lot of name dropping. He noticed he drops his

682
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: brother John and Kennedy Nath the end of his old statement.

683
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: He always he's frozen this Winston Churchill quote about John

684
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: Quincy Adams the state of it, and he's thought and

685
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: he's named all these people. I always say when people

686
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: start quoting Bible scriptures and they stop putting the lookout folks,

687
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: this just that you know, it's coven.

688
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: Got it, it's and so to wrap it up to

689
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: Joan Kennedy again, that's the thing, like, so he was married,

690
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: but not only that, his wife was pregnant and on

691
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 2: bed rest because she had had two miscarriages. So what

692
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: do they always tell you, like, don't put extra stress

693
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: on your wife. Yeah, so just go out and party

694
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: with a bunch of twenty year olds. And she had

695
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: to go to this funeral and put up face with

696
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: him to marry Joe Capeshi's funeral, and he's wearing that

697
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 2: obnoxious uh neck brace, remember that he was wearing that

698
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: like the doughnut one around his neck. And she's there,

699
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: and she ended up having another miscarriage after that, obviously,

700
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 2: because I can't imagine the stress that that put on her.

701
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: And and she had left him because he was an alcoholic.

702
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: Like obviously, It's just it just was interesting. I just

703
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: wanted to bring.

704
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: Up Yeah, I love the history.

705
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: Any chance I could bring up chap equittic is good.

706
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a big fan of the history stuff. You know.

707
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: When I when I could tie in the crime to

708
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: history or historic eventsive figures, I think it's always fascinating.

709
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: All right, what about this this next case, Ray.

710
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 3: Joe. I don't know how familiar you are with our show,

711
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 3: but it wouldn't be a true episode without a rectal

712
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: foreign body.

713
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 2: We like this.

714
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw your listen, I wis Oh.

715
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: It just happens every week, so we just had to

716
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: bring it up with you this.

717
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: Well, there's another crappy story, but go ahead.

718
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: So this one is very unusual in all aspects. So

719
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: police initially got a call about a naked man in

720
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: a park, but when they got there, they said he

721
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: was fully clothed. Let him go on his way. Then

722
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 3: later that day, same guy was trespassing on a railroad

723
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: was then arrested. So they bring up men shockingly as

724
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 3: meth on him and then when they scan his body,

725
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: they find a thermis that he shoved into his anus.

726
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah wow, yeah, Actually I had heard about this because

727
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: just something like that that comes over the wire, you

728
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: just it's it's like it's a car. It's a car accident, right,

729
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: you just have to slow down and take a look.

730
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: You see that guy has a service stuck in his anus.

731
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: You better read the article. I mean it's a similar

732
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: I actually kind of when I when I read the

733
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: headline and then I saw a Florida man, I stopped

734
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: reading after that. But what the issue that comes down

735
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: to is that Sheriff uh Grady jud isn't or Judd Grady.

736
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that guy.

737
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 2: He oh his jokes, I know that was so funny.

738
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: He has the oh my god, he has the best

739
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: press conferences ever, and he talked about that he has

740
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: this service stuck in an exit only area. I mean,

741
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: he was absolutely hysterical. But you know what, in policing,

742
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: and you've probably seen this yourself, people do this stuff,

743
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: you know. I I've never seen or heard of somebody

744
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: using a thermos. But I think the largest object that

745
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: I've encountered was a shampoo bottled And this story was

746
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: he fell on it while he was in the shower.

747
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 3: The most classic. Every time we covered these types of stories,

748
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: it's always I fell on it. I fell on that hammer,

749
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: I fell on that screwdriver.

750
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: Okay, So is that if you arrest somebody, how you

751
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't routinely do an X ray on someone, right like?

752
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: Or do they Yeah? In New York City, we only

753
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: did that if they if they set off the metal detector,

754
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: and we don't know the reason why. Right. So if

755
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: you basically you took off the belt, you took off

756
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: any chains and you know fingers, of course you're always

757
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: now you have to ask Ardia hast hearcings anyway that

758
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: we can't see, because that's you know, another indication of

759
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: a reason why you'd have a hit on the magnetometer.

760
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: But you know, so they get to hit on the magnetometer,

761
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: and apparently in Florida, in this jurisdiction, they do it

762
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: to every perpetrator or every suspect. You know, we didn't

763
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: do it unless there was some unaccounted for hit on

764
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: the on the metal detective.

765
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, in theory, you could fill a condom

766
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 2: up with drugs and put it up there and that

767
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: wouldn't set it off off the metal detector. So I

768
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: guess that's why they would check. So the thermist didn't

769
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 2: have anything in it, Like what what was the point?

770
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: I don't understand.

771
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what his purpose was,

772
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: but he did. But did sheriff to say that they

773
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: saved his life because they when they took them to

774
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: the hospital, they had it call and he was trying

775
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: to do it with a straight face, but they had

776
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: actually called a specialist to come in and take this

777
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: thing out because even the emergency room factors were reluctant

778
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: to do so, because even the specialists said that if

779
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: they didn't come out in a certain amount of time, he

780
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: would surely have died from it. But I guess he

781
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: might have, you know, maybe the meth had something to

782
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: do with, uh, you know the fact that he didn't

783
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: feel this thing. But I had a note on this

784
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: when we do when we were talking about oh, they

785
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: said it was maybe in there for twenty four hours.

786
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's so painful.

787
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: Well, and I'm wondering if they actually had to go

788
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: and give him a laparotomy and open his belly and

789
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: take it out that way because it's really big. Sometimes

790
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: they can't get it out just through the venus, you know,

791
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 2: like he might have to have a major colon resection

792
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: or surgery to remove that, which is which is outrageous,

793
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. This is not his first time, okay,

794
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: because you just cannot just be like, oh, I'm just

795
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: gonna stick something that's six inches in diameter up there

796
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 2: for the very first time.

797
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: Like, wait, tell Jim about the one we have on

798
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: the website with the World War two artillery the artillery shell.

799
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bombs we have. Since we're on the subject

800
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 2: and you've never seen one of my lectures, let me

801
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: tell you about my most favorite one I've ever gotten

802
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: in surgical pathology. A half eaten pair out of a

803
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: man's ass. The wife put it in there started eating

804
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: it out. It got sucked up, so it was a

805
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: pair with teeth marks in it. It was awesome. It

806
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: was one of my fabs. I have a whole collection though,

807
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, of course of stories that of that. Surprisingly,

808
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 2: you know.

809
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: When you hear these stories. When you hear these stories,

810
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: you know what you say to yourself when you say, well,

811
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: this this person's odd. You say, you know, like you

812
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: have no idea what's odd that you know?

813
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: You know what's funny. Before I ever started working in

814
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: surgical pathology, I was in my young twenties and I

815
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: got a travel tooth brusholder and it was from this

816
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: eighty year old guy's butt right, And I was like,

817
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: this is so weird and I just didn't understand it.

818
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 2: And I found the pathologist and I was like, isn't

819
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: this weird? And he was like, oh no, Nicole, I

820
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: have to teach just some things. And then and then

821
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: like every day, it's just like you just kept getting

822
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: these crazy foreign bodies all the time.

823
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd have to bore often. Then you know, there's

824
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: a guy on I think he's on Instagram. He's a

825
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: he's an EMS worker. I forgot his name, but he

826
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: does a whole thing on this. He'll he'll like be

827
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: in a store and he'll see, you'll see this bottle

828
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: of water and he turns to the camera and he

829
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: goes like this shake to the head. No, or if

830
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: you'll see different objects. Just recently, I think he had it.

831
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: It was a Christmas tree. Feels like a twelve. Yeah,

832
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: And he picked up the tree and he looked at

833
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: the canny one like this, you know, looks like because.

834
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 2: It's true, you get like like you get I've gotten obviously,

835
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: like silos and stuff. Well, because back in the day

836
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: you weren't able to discreetly get a white box from

837
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: Adam and Eve delivered to your house or whatever. Right,

838
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 2: you can get them on Amazon. Yeah, so today there's

839
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: no excuse, there's absolutely no excuse. But back in the day,

840
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 2: we got cucumbers and things, you know, just lots of

841
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: different things. And my dad always says, he's just like, listen,

842
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,959
Speaker 2: if I ever got a pair of stock up my butt,

843
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: I would die with that pair up my butt. I

844
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: would never go to the hospital and get that. Well

845
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 2: we're Italian too, so you know, you know the story

846
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 2: when my dad telling that, it is hilarious, all right,

847
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: the next story. This another This is a very unusual thing.

848
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 2: I've never should have ended on.

849
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 3: The last story since I was a little on the

850
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 3: funnier side, because the next two are not or not.

851
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: But this is.

852
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: This one's weird though.

853
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 3: This one's weird. So this twenty nine year old woman

854
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 3: has been arrested after she even cooler containing a fetus

855
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 3: to her lover after he didn't believe that she was

856
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 3: actually pregnant. Yeah, I don't know what goes through people's mines.

857
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard I mean, I'm sure you doubt

858
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: this is the first time I've seen this, right, this

859
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: is this is another level. But I'm sure you've seen

860
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: crazy domestic disputes. Have you ever had anything that's just

861
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 2: like above the normal people fighting thing?

862
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: I guess you know. Nothing tops this one. I mean,

863
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: she has a miscarriage, she puts it in in a

864
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: cooler and then holds him up and basically says, I'm

865
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: dropping this off to you. Here's your's your kid?

866
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my wow.

867
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean, talk about a whole other level of psycho yeah,

868
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: off the shots kind of thing. I mean, geez, yeah,

869
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: this is an awful case. So she gets charged with

870
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: first degree I gottagravated harassment. I guess they're not viewing

871
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: the fetus as as a person, or it could be

872
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: something even worse ready. I guess it depends on how

873
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: how old it is in Missouri, because this happens in Missouri.

874
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: Every state has a different rule on this. But I'm

875
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: sure the cops will like when they got there and

876
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: be like a come on right, I mean, because he

877
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: was afraid apparently to open it up because he didn't

878
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: know if this was gonna be you know what it was,

879
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 1: So he callsed the police and you know, lo and behore.

880
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: They opened it up and like, oh geez, it looks

881
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: like you know, it looks like a fetus whatever. So

882
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 1: then the medical examiner of the coroner comes and takes

883
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: it and says, yes it is. But yeah, I think

884
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 1: this woman needs some help.

885
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean even if she and we don't really

886
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 2: know how far along she was, because I guess the

887
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: guy said a month or two ago she had told

888
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 2: him that she was pregnant, but he didn't believe her

889
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: because she's a pathological liar.

890
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: Amongst other things. Apparently, Yeah, I think her identity problems.

891
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 3: So it's scary, he said, she showed no remorse or anything,

892
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 3: just yeah, in trouble way.

893
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: I said, yeah. She handed over the cooler and said, bye.

894
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: This is really outrageous that. So, I mean, I think

895
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: if you can't really recognize a fetus, really, I would say,

896
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about things that we got in the lab.

897
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: Ten weeks, it could be anywhere from ten weeks to term,

898
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: I guess. I mean, she didn't have to tell him

899
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: as soon as she was pregnant. She could have already

900
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: been six months pregnant when she told them. So, yeah,

901
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 2: like you said, the rules in different states, because sometimes

902
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: there was a woman that had a miscarriage in one

903
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: state a couple of months ago that we were talking about, remember,

904
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 2: and she got in trouble for like abuse of a

905
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: corpse because she tried to flush it down the toilet

906
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: or something. It was like really crazy. So sometimes the rules,

907
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 2: depending on how far along she was, can be really

908
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: you know, it's either me waste or it's a human

909
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: you know.

910
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: Right, Well, here's the thing. I mean, So in Missouri,

911
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: I had looked it up. This charge is actually an

912
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: e felony and which is basically one step above an

913
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor. I mean, it's the lowest level felony that

914
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: you can get, and you can get anywhere from one

915
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: to four years if convicted for it in New York State.

916
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: If this is what happened in New York State, it

917
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: is more than likely it would have been what we

918
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: referred to as the unloaful disposal of a body, which

919
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: is only a B misdemeanor, which is basically one step

920
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: above getting a traffic summits. W Yeah, it basically it's

921
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: just a tool to hold people if you have somebody

922
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: that is, you know, distarting a body, because this now

923
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 1: happens more often than you think, with all these fechtanol deaths, right,

924
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 1: somebody has a party and then doing these drugs, person

925
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: drops dead and they leave them on the sunk lawn

926
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: because they don't want the person in the house, so

927
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: you know, and they just distart them. But it has

928
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: to be something to hold them for an investigation until

929
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: they can find out. So basically that's that's what you're

930
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: dealing with. You is. It's an awful case. It really

931
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: is an awful case.

932
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: It's it's really weird, you know. I was just thinking

933
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 2: that if that happens often with the feneryl desks. They

934
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: should do something like like they do with the babies

935
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: that are not wanted by mothers. At the firehouses, they

936
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: have these drop off boxes. They should do it. Don't ask,

937
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: don't tell, just drop the person in front of the

938
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: firehouse kind of thing. I don't know. That might a

939
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: bigger give a bigger box piles of Yeah. God, especially

940
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: in the town my husband works out there, they're all

941
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: the time. The drug desk. I mean, I guess it's

942
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: every city that's happening. All right, let's finish off with

943
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: this drunk driving drunk what is that called?

944
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: Drunk boating? Is another awful taste.

945
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: This is horrible.

946
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 3: In North Carolina, this guy and his friends were heavily

947
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: drinking while driving on a boat on a lake when

948
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: they struck a ten year old girl, killing her and

949
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 3: a forty one year old woman whose leg had to

950
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 3: be amputated. And they're saying that they hit them so

951
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 3: hard that the propeller fell off of the boat.

952
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. And according to what the stories say too, that

953
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: they had he had the driver of the boat wasn't

954
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: paying attention, he was watching, he was They were pulling

955
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: the towing two people like on a float and he

956
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: wasn't watching what's going on ahead of them. The people

957
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: that are in the boat. I think they said they

958
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: threw about eighty or one hundred white clothes into the water.

959
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: They recovered I think thirty nine empty cans and I

960
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: think fifty I guess full cans. So they tested him

961
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: five hours later and he still had I think were

962
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: one point seven. Yeah, So could you imagine if they

963
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: they did the test in the first hour or so,

964
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: that number would have been much higher, but it is

965
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: not as apparently it's not his first DWI either, So

966
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: and they kept his wife, which was unusual. His wife

967
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: apparently he wasn't drunk, but she's on the boat and

968
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: the defense had asked to get her bail reduced, and

969
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: they the prosecutor said no. She had the opportunity to,

970
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, basically what his background, to step in and

971
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: she basically like handed them the keys to this thing.

972
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: And she's just as much to blame. So it's gonna

973
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: be interesting to see how that plays out. But you know,

974
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: something that could be avoided, let's put it that way.

975
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: It is interesting because I guess he started once he

976
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: realized what he did, he started saying, get rid of

977
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: this alcohol, and it was they were helping him throw

978
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: it in the water, right, I mean, which to me

979
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 2: means you're trying to cover up a crime. And then

980
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 2: on top of just they were not drunk, some of

981
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 2: the people in the boat. So I understand from that

982
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: point of view that they say, well, she wasn't drunk,

983
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 2: why didn't she drive if she's aw But I mean

984
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 2: he probably They say that about drunk drivers all the time.

985
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: They do it all the time, and he probably has

986
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: done it all the time when she's sober, you know.

987
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: And how aggressive the person could be too. But my

988
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: cool story on that too is then don't get on

989
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: the boat with somebody who's know is already intoxicated and

990
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: is going to be driving the boat. Then don't get

991
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: on it.

992
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 4: Right.

993
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: It's like getting into a car from the bar knowing

994
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 1: that the person that is behind the wheel to get off,

995
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: get out of the car, take a camp home or

996
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: an uber or whatever you do these days. So it's

997
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: it's incumbent upon the people, your friends, your family. When

998
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: you have somebody that you know is intoxicated, to take

999
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: the keys from him, boy or you don't. You don't

1000
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: get in because you become just as liable. And this

1001
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: case is this case might prove that.

1002
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: Do you think that the punishment for operating a vehicle

1003
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: while intoxicated is too lenient because we talk about Okay,

1004
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 3: I'm so interested from your perspective about it, because we

1005
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 3: always are talking about these people that get in these

1006
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 3: horrific accidents, and you know, there's all these studies saying

1007
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 3: that by the time somebody gets caught, it's probably they've

1008
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 3: probably done it dozens of times already.

1009
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I think I think that a lot. And you

1010
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: watch this kid apparently, like I said, he has a

1011
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: DWI and he's got to hit and run. So we

1012
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's the same case or not.

1013
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: I don't recall of him, but that could be two

1014
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: separate tases, right, or it could be the one. So

1015
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: he has somebody who's already been charged with this and

1016
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: is now doing it again, is now caused somebody that

1017
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: is a young girl at least she's ten, causes her life, right.

1018
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: But we've seen this time and time again, people who

1019
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: get behind the wheel and the station is the boat,

1020
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: do horrific things and then end up with a very

1021
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: light sentence after the whole thing's over, you know. So

1022
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: I am a firm believer in the terrets, both specific

1023
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: and general. Right specific, is it happens to me, I'll

1024
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: never do it again. Right Apparently that didn't work in

1025
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: this case, you know, and the general, but the general

1026
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: is even more important where somebody is made of an

1027
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: example out of it and then somebody else who's getting

1028
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: you know what, maybe I shouldn't get behind the whel

1029
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: because I remember this case where this guy gets twenty

1030
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: five to life and killing somebody. You know, this is

1031
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: the only time where you can actually kill somebody with

1032
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: a five thousand pound weapon and not get twenty five

1033
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: years to lice if you know why, just because you drunk, well,

1034
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: you know, the reckless nature over the criminally negligit homicide.

1035
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: You know, they go for you know, manslaughter a lot

1036
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: of times in some of these things. Or now we

1037
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 1: have these, you know, statues about you know, vehicle vehiculum manslaughter,

1038
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: which is still not a homicide. We have to start

1039
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: looking at this in more of an intent kind of

1040
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: culpable mental state. And I do think that if you

1041
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: start doing that within the law, you'll see less of

1042
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: these kinds of things.

1043
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: These things just They really just make me so angry

1044
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 2: when we hear about these cases every single day. It's

1045
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 2: always seems like innocent people are getting hurt that the

1046
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: person that's actually drunk driving. I never really, I rarely

1047
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: think about the boat situation though, because do you do

1048
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: you actually there are a lot of people on boats

1049
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: that are I know they're drinking. Oh my gosh, are

1050
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 2: there pops out in the water like that or checking?

1051
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: Yes, but not there's nowhere near enough because you can't cover.

1052
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: So I grow up on Long Island, I grew up

1053
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: on the water. I grew up around boats. I even

1054
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 1: owned my own boat. And let me tell you something

1055
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: that some of the people who drive boats who are

1056
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: sober are dangerous. You know, driving a boat is unlike

1057
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: driving a car because boats can be very difficult to

1058
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: control based on the tide, the wind, the waves, and

1059
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: everything else that goes along with it. You don't have

1060
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 1: that on the street. And there aren't any lines. There

1061
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: aren't any ladies. I mean, yes, you have green buoys

1062
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: and red bullies right green on your right going out,

1063
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: red right return going in. But if you go out

1064
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: either side of those booies you can run aground. But

1065
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: that's generally where people swim and stuff like that. And

1066
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: I've seen boats that have a very low what's the

1067
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for, you know, I forget, but they

1068
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: have a very low they can's operating very low water.

1069
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: And I've seen smaller boats who are worried about the

1070
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: big wake from the bigger boats that are in the

1071
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 1: middle of the shadow tank around those bullies. And unfortunately,

1072
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: you run the risk of hitting people when you're doing that.

1073
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: So it's a very dangerous game. Long Island, the South

1074
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: Jowl of Long Island is extremely dangerous because of the

1075
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: rocks and the and the real shallow areas all along

1076
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: the place.

1077
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 2: Man. It's just it's a really interesting thing to think

1078
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: about because there is this whole other world that's going

1079
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 2: on in the water. And I mean, I'm sure he's

1080
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: been drunk driving the boat or boating drunk for however

1081
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 2: long and now unfortunately this had to happen. Well, thanks

1082
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 2: so much for being here with us today. What else

1083
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 2: do you have going on in your life right now?

1084
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: We did the introduction about some of your history, but

1085
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 2: are you working on anything new?

1086
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: Well, I'm planning on hopefully writing the third edition of

1087
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: Mike Coldpie's Handbook, getting that together, and of course I

1088
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: got the True Crime with the Sage channel on YouTube

1089
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: that I've been trying to, you know, get get guests

1090
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: and do those kind of things. And I teach two

1091
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: days a week and I have papers out in the

1092
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: law zoom, not like the guy with the thermis. But

1093
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: you know, I got a lot of stuff going on,

1094
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: so it becomes difficult to try to, you know, keep

1095
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: all these things, all these balls up in the air.

1096
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: How I'm getting old too, so you know, people think, like,

1097
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like forty five years older and I'm like,

1098
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: I'm almost sixty. Guys, leave me alone with this, you know,

1099
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: and you don't seem.

1100
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 2: That you don't seem like you're a most sixty. Yeah,

1101
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 2: you have like a youthful a way of appearance. But

1102
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 2: just like your attitude too, is very youthful.

1103
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: Well, if I had hair, I built a lot younger, right, So,

1104
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: and if I let my bean grow out, it's all white.

1105
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: You could see something that we are all white. But

1106
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: uh yeah, no, I keep myself busy. Like in regardss TO,

1107
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: I enjoyed doing it. I enjoyed take talking of people.

1108
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: I enjoy being on all the people's shows like your

1109
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: own and meet you guys in person was great too.

1110
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: So you know this stuff with Cheryl, I mean if

1111
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: if that that kind of stuff for me is really fun.

1112
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: So I'm enjoying myself for now.

1113
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 2: Students think of this that you have this YouTube and

1114
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: stuff today because you have students that are are they

1115
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 2: mostly younger, like in their twenties or you have all ages.

1116
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, most of them are probably nineteen twenty years old.

1117
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: I don't push this with the students per se. Some

1118
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: find it automatically, you know. I guess a lot of

1119
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: time the students because they look for that rate my

1120
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: professor thing, right. They want to make sure that they're

1121
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 1: not getting a complete asshole before they take the class,

1122
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: so they go and then of course when you do that,

1123
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: my name pops up at other places, and you know,

1124
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 1: then they fight it and be like, oh my god,

1125
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: you know you have this. You know, they think like

1126
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: it's Impressible'm like, guys, it's like, you.

1127
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 2: Know it's you, Yeah exactly, that's but that's how you're career.

1128
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 1: You could do it yourself.

1129
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the only my My younger kids besides Maria,

1130
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 2: are eleven and twelve, and it's just like the only

1131
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: way younger people gauge people anymore. It's really sad. Actually,

1132
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 2: I'm just like, how.

1133
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 1: Many followers you guy?

1134
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: Right?

1135
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1136
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 2: Basically yeah, And I'm just like, well, you know, I

1137
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: was a single mom and I got a bachelor's and

1138
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 2: a master's degree. Does that count for anything? Like? No,

1139
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 2: no followers?

1140
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: You're cool? You know? Yeah, Well, when it's no longer

1141
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: fun or just things, you know, lights gets in the way,

1142
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: you know, which happens from time to time. You know,

1143
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: I'll continue to do whatever I can do. One of

1144
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: the things I do like doing, and I don't know

1145
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: if you saw this, but on my channel, I have

1146
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: on the post section, I do quiz a day, So

1147
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: six days a week, I gives a multiple choice quiz

1148
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: on death investigations, forensics, criminal investigations, and in some days

1149
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: usually a pullbait. And I've found that the audience really

1150
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: loves that kind of stuff, So I can do that.

1151
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: I think there's a one hundred and fifty questions up

1152
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: there right now, and I have features that reach out

1153
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: to me and saying, hey, can I hear things from

1154
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: my midterm? Yeah, knock your out? So why reinvent the wheel.

1155
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,479
Speaker 1: I tell people, yeah, you did.

1156
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 2: The lecture you did was unexpected to me at the

1157
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 2: CSI training, and I thought it was awesome. It was

1158
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: just trying to tell because everyone in your audience. I mean,

1159
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 2: obviously you don't know who you're who's in your audience,

1160
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of people that just might be.

1161
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 2: My mom was there with us, right, And my mom's

1162
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 2: a perfect example of someone that, like she was kind

1163
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: of a stay at home mom, and she didn't really

1164
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 2: she probably would have done really well in this field

1165
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 2: if it was a different time, you know, and she's

1166
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: very interested in it, in true crime. So you were

1167
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: trying to teach people how everyday citizens can help solve

1168
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 2: cold cases, and I thought that was super cool, all

1169
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 2: the stuff you were going through.

1170
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually, to tell you a secret, I won't

1171
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: tell Cheryl this unless you watched this. I had to

1172
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: put that presentation together at the last minute because originally

1173
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: I was just gonna go in there up there and

1174
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: talk and then they then they said no, no, we

1175
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: want a presentation, and I'm like, oh boy. So I

1176
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: was up like trying to just throw this thing together.

1177
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: But I told Cheryl too, I could hope to talk

1178
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: for three hours without anything, but you know, whatever you want.

1179
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: I could talk cases, I could talk whatever you want.

1180
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: Cheryl's like, go up there. I know you do whatever

1181
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: you want, you know. And I try to make a

1182
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: difference for the two nights too. So were you there

1183
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: the first fight? No, we just yeah, So I had

1184
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: two different presentations basically, and I went through two different

1185
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: things to try to keep it fresh to the people

1186
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: that are forced to be there two days.

1187
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: Is no, you're you're a really good lecturer.

1188
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: Like.

1189
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 2: It was very entertaining and kept people engage. And we've

1190
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 2: done events with Cheryl before, so we know that she's

1191
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 2: just she's she has no anxiety in her body, so

1192
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 2: she's just like, yeah, just do whatever. And I'm like, Cheryl,

1193
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 2: I need to. Like when I was just presenting at

1194
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 2: crime Con, I just said to her, I have to

1195
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: be in my hotel room for the next twenty four

1196
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: hours and prepare for this lecture. And She's looking at

1197
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: me like I'm a crazy person, and I'm like, dude,

1198
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 2: I'm not like you. I don't just wing it like

1199
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 2: I need to. I need to have like be focused

1200
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 2: and whatever.

1201
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've done four talks at crime Con. Now, I

1202
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: haven't been there last couple of times, but I've done

1203
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: four talks at crime Con and actually I was almost

1204
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: out one by the slough, right, So try to do

1205
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: a talk off the cuff and you got this thing

1206
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: hanging dangling from your head looking at her trying to

1207
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: reach out and grab you. So how many people can

1208
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: say that, but they did it. They did with a

1209
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: slow trying to attack you.

1210
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: That that was a very unusual circumstance to be standing

1211
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 2: there lecturing with a sloth, and you didn't know that

1212
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 2: obviously before you got there, so you're just like, oh cool,

1213
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: this is.

1214
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, well the alligators and stuff like that, you know,

1215
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: it was Actually it was. I really had a lot

1216
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: of fun. I love animals too, so it's it was

1217
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: good I stayed away from the snakes in the croabout,

1218
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: but other than that.

1219
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really interesting. Actually during your lecture, like

1220
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: I look over in the one crocodile looked like it

1221
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 2: was hugging the other one, and I wanted to take

1222
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: a picture, and I'm like, you know what, this is

1223
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 2: gonna seem so rude because the giant flash is going

1224
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: to go off, and I was just like, I'm gonna

1225
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 2: sit here. He's had enough with with the getting the

1226
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: low grade attacks during this so we loved that. That

1227
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 2: was fun. Well, thanks again for being here. We hope

1228
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 2: you could come back again soon anytime.

1229
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: You guys a lot of fun.

1230
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Mother Nos Death.

1231
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 2: As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist's assistant.

1232
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: I have a master's level education and specialize in anatomy

1233
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 2: and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I

1234
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 2: have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without

1235
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 2: the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,

1236
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 2: and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform

1237
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 2: people based on my experience working in pathology, so they

1238
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 2: can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.

1239
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 2: Always remember that science is changing every day and the

1240
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 2: opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge

1241
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 2: of those subjects at the time of publication. If you

1242
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 2: are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or

1243
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 2: having a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit

1244
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 2: an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review,

1245
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 2: and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1246
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 2: or any where you get podcasts, thanks