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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session four or six of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

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Speaker 1: conversation after word from our sponsors. Have you heard the

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Speaker 1: news Therapy for Black Girls is launching our community on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: It's your space to be seen, heard, and understood in

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Speaker 1: an even more connected way. We're exciting to bring you

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Speaker 1: new segments like so my Therapist said, where we break

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Speaker 1: down viral therapy hot takes with real mental health professionals,

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Speaker 1: TBG community chats, where we unpack trending pop culture topics

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Speaker 1: connect with other sisters all over the world. Sign up

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Speaker 1: now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash join Patreon

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Speaker 1: for all the details about what we're planning and to

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Speaker 1: be the first to know when the doors are open.

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Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you inside. Morgan Devon is

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Speaker 1: a visionary entrepreneur, strategists, and the powerhouse founder and see

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Speaker 1: of Blavity, Inc. A digital media empire dedicated to amplifying

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Speaker 1: the voices of black millennials and equipping them with the

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Speaker 1: tools to thrive. Over the past decade, she has redefined

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Speaker 1: what it means to create economic equity, using storytelling, wealth building,

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Speaker 1: and advocacy to uplift underrepresented communities. A trailblazer in media

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Speaker 1: in tech, Morgan has secured thirteen million dollars in venture

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Speaker 1: capital for Blavity, expanding its influence across news, culture and

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Speaker 1: professional development. She's also the force behind Afrotech, one of

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Speaker 1: the largest black tech conferences in the nation, fostering innovation

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Speaker 1: and generational wealth in the industry. Morgan continues to inspire

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Speaker 1: as a mentor, investor, and speaker, and with her new book,

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Speaker 1: Rewrite Your Rules, she's guiding professionals to create a bespoke

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Speaker 1: frame for their success, one that prioritizes authenticity, ambition, and

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Speaker 1: financial empowerment on their own terms. If something resonates with

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Speaker 1: you while enjoying our conversation, please yere with us on

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Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TBG in session. Here's our conversation.

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Speaker 1: So good to see you again, Morgan.

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Speaker 2: It's good to see you too.

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Speaker 1: I always like to do a check in with the

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Speaker 1: authors because I know what this is, the ramp up

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Speaker 1: time must be feeling like, So, how are you doing?

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Speaker 1: How are you taking care of yourself? Right now?

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling good. I did a rotten bed weekend as

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Speaker 2: much as one can with a toddler, and yeah, I

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Speaker 2: just spent some time at home chilling before the travel

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Speaker 2: schedule gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, that's good. That's much needed. So tell

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Speaker 1: me about rewrite the rules. At what moment did you

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Speaker 1: know I need to write this down and offer it

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Speaker 1: to the world.

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Speaker 2: From an early age, I felt like all the rules

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Speaker 2: and expectations that were put on me four things I

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Speaker 2: just wasn't going to follow. Like I was just one

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Speaker 2: of those people where it's like you tell me to

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Speaker 2: go left, why can't I go right. I'm happy to

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Speaker 2: go left, but what's wrong with right? And I think

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Speaker 2: that was something that helped me along the way as

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Speaker 2: I was like building businesses and buying companies, was this

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Speaker 2: idea of like, well, why can't I do it this

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Speaker 2: other way? Who says that when you first start a

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Speaker 2: company you have to wait ten or fifteen years before

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Speaker 2: you acquire another company, Who says that I can't raise money,

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Speaker 2: who says that I can't do these things? And I

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Speaker 2: think that it just became part of my success criteria

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Speaker 2: was being able to say, hmm, if this doesn't work

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Speaker 2: for me, then I can just change it. And leading

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Speaker 2: into that has been one of the greatest ways that

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Speaker 2: I've been able to defy the odds and actually really

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Speaker 2: also advise and work with people around me.

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Speaker 1: So we had a podcast episode called Shedding the Shoulds,

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Speaker 1: and so as I was reading your book, that episode

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Speaker 1: came to mind because I think that there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of shoes that we have, especially as black women. Right,

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Speaker 1: So when you talk about that in your book, what

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Speaker 1: are some of the shoods you feel like you have

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Speaker 1: had to unlearned and let go of throughout your life?

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Speaker 2: So many I mean, I remember the first, this one

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Speaker 2: more recently was when I was thinking about moving, so

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Speaker 2: I moved from LA and left the big city and

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Speaker 2: moved to Nashville, Tennessee. And even to this day, when

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Speaker 2: I say, when people are like, oh, you live in

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Speaker 2: New York or you live in LA, and I'm like, no,

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Speaker 2: I live in Nashville, Tennessee, everyone's like so surprised, because

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Speaker 2: there's this perception that in order to be successful you

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Speaker 2: have to live on a big coast or in a

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Speaker 2: big city, and that if you're not living in one

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Speaker 2: of those cities, then you're throttling your success to an

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Speaker 2: extent and you're not maximizing your success. And it was

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Speaker 2: a bit of an ego hit, like people's initial reactions

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Speaker 2: like I wasn't expecting it, And so when I would

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Speaker 2: introduce myself, I would find myself saying, but I just

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Speaker 2: moved from LA, or like I lived in LA, or

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Speaker 2: started my company in California in Silicon Valley, to try

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Speaker 2: to provide context that I was relevant. And then over

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Speaker 2: time I was like, wait, who gives a shit? Like

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Speaker 2: I am successful already, Like I'm already doing the things.

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Speaker 2: I own this company, we're growing, we make an MP

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Speaker 2: packed every single day. I don't need to justify my

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Speaker 2: location as a fully remote company to anybody besides my board. Really, So,

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Speaker 2: I think there's been many times in my life that

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Speaker 2: I have asked myself, why am I feeling friction? Why

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Speaker 2: am I feeling like I am over emphasizing something or

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Speaker 2: my brain is overprocessing something, And oftentimes it's a reaction

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Speaker 2: to being perceived by somebody else.

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Speaker 1: So the book is you are the CEO of a

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Speaker 1: huge company, and I think many people will be surprised

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Speaker 1: to find that the book is not really just about

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Speaker 1: being a CEO in terms of entrepreneurship. You talk about

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Speaker 1: it as being the CEO of our lives. So talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the things that you feel like you

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Speaker 1: have learned in business that you feel like really helped

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Speaker 1: translate to other people taking care of themselves in their lives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I believe everybody should consider themselves the SEE of

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Speaker 2: their lives because whether they do or not, they are.

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Speaker 2: They are the person who is making the decisions. They're

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Speaker 2: managing their own P and L or your profit and

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Speaker 2: loss statement, how much money's coming in, how much expenses

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Speaker 2: are going out. They're deciding and building the team around

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Speaker 2: them and if they're looking for a team or a

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Speaker 2: village to help them with their kids, their career. That's

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Speaker 2: an organizational chart, whether you like it or not. And

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Speaker 2: the more that you can develop a mindset and a

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Speaker 2: framework to help you think through Okay, I want to

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Speaker 2: quit my job one day. Okay, great, you're clear. Why

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Speaker 2: do you want to quit your job? Okay? I want

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Speaker 2: to quit my job because I want more freedom. Okay,

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Speaker 2: is quitting your job going to actually give you more freedom?

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that going deeper helping people. This book

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Speaker 2: is designed to help people think through the question underneath

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Speaker 2: the question, and to help them and give them framework

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Speaker 2: so they can do that. And what I learned through

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Speaker 2: Blavity was I started off with as an entrepreneur where

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Speaker 2: my identity was tied to my company. You could literally

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Speaker 2: walk down the street in San Francisco and be like hey,

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Speaker 2: and I would turn around because that's how much it

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Speaker 2: was tied to who I was. And over time I realized, wait,

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Speaker 2: there is no end to entrepreneurship. There's no finishing entrepreneurship.

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Speaker 2: It's a part of my identity. So I need to

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Speaker 2: figure out how I'm going to have a full life.

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Speaker 2: A full life full of love and fun and joy

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Speaker 2: and not just success at work. And that is really

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Speaker 2: where I said, Okay, you got to do something different,

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Speaker 2: you got to get off this hamster wheel. For me,

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Speaker 2: that looked like finding my life partner, having a family.

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Speaker 2: For me, it looks different than what it might look

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Speaker 2: like for you or someone else listening to this.

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Speaker 1: M hm. Yeah, And it feels like that is kind

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Speaker 1: of what we talk about in the book about finding

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Speaker 1: your purpose, right, and like really identifying your purpose and

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Speaker 1: and not being tied to other people. Right, So your

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Speaker 1: identity as a business owner, your identity as a mom

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Speaker 1: or a wife, And so I think that that can

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Speaker 1: be hard because I think that is kind of what

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Speaker 1: many of us are socialized to kind of show up

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Speaker 1: as is like this thing. How do you help the

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Speaker 1: kind of ease that out, especially because I think it

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Speaker 1: is interesting to hear you talk about it like on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the success, right. But I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who will pick this up will

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Speaker 1: be young women who are kind of wanting to follow

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Speaker 1: in your footsteps and be successful. So what would you

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Speaker 1: say to them before they even find themselves needing to

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Speaker 1: look back and redo some things?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called your purpose principle. It's basically this idea

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Speaker 2: that your purpose has to be tied to you. And

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Speaker 2: just like you're saying, your purpose can't be for the

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Speaker 2: betterment of other people's happiness. It has to be based

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Speaker 2: off your intrinsic happiness. So let's take a mom for example. Right,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of women who they're like, I'm a mom.

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Speaker 2: That is my thing. Whether you're stay at home mom

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Speaker 2: or a working mom, doesn't matter. You're still like, I'm

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Speaker 2: a mom and that's part of my identity. And it's like, Okay, yes,

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Speaker 2: that is your title, that is your role in parenting,

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Speaker 2: is part of your responsibility. But you're more than just

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Speaker 2: one thing and mommy it is not a verb. So

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Speaker 2: what about being a mom is core to who you are?

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Speaker 2: Is it nurturing, is it teaching? Is it wellness and

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Speaker 2: care providing? What is it about the title? And I

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Speaker 2: think that's what I'm really pushing people in the book

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Speaker 2: to consider, is not just the title. It's not just

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Speaker 2: ourble wife. It's I enjoy building somebody else up and

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Speaker 2: being there for them and listening to them, because it's

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Speaker 2: based off your enjoyment. And when you start with that

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Speaker 2: center it's really hard for people. It's very difficult to

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Speaker 2: do because it actually does require you to be selfish,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of the world is telling us don't

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Speaker 2: be selfish, and a lot of people are unhappy, I

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Speaker 2: think because of that.

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Speaker 1: So what would you say to people who are listening,

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Speaker 1: who are thinking, like, Okay, I want to be more selfish.

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Speaker 1: I want to dive in and feel my you know,

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Speaker 1: figure out what my purpose is. How do I get

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Speaker 1: started and figuring that out?

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Speaker 2: So the first thing is to figure out what you're

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Speaker 2: doing naturally, like when no one is looking, if no

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Speaker 2: one was paying you, what could you do all day,

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Speaker 2: all night. So for me, one of those things is painting.

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Speaker 2: Like I could sit in with my watercolors. I don't

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Speaker 2: care how crappy the water colors are. I could just

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Speaker 2: paint up store because that's just part of who I am,

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Speaker 2: and it's part of something that I enjoy, is creativity.

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Speaker 2: Or same thing with gardening. I'm a very bad gardener.

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Speaker 2: I kill pretty much everything, but I love the attempt.

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Speaker 2: Like I went to home Depot this weekend. Actually I

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Speaker 2: went to Low's because home Depot doesn't stanbard De and I,

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Speaker 2: but I went to Low's I was going to home

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Speaker 2: Depot and then I was reminded, so I went to

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Speaker 2: Low's and I bought cucumbers. Is it too early for cucumbers? Yeah, probably,

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Speaker 2: but I'm traveling, so I wanted to get them in

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Speaker 2: the ground and just pray that there's no frost because

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Speaker 2: I want to do it. It makes me happy. So

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Speaker 2: for anyone who's trying to figure out who am I

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Speaker 2: and what's my purpose and what is my purpose and

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Speaker 2: identity outside of these roles or titles that I carry

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Speaker 2: at work or in my home life, think about what

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Speaker 2: you're doing naturally. Is it baking? Is it because you

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Speaker 2: enjoy putting meals together, nourishing meals for your family. Is

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Speaker 2: it you enjoy driving? I mean, there's no judgment on

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Speaker 2: what it is that you enjoy. It's really hard to do.

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Speaker 2: What would you say yours is ooh? Well? What I say?

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Speaker 1: Mine is I think connecting? Yeah, connecting? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: connecting the dots and connecting people.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I think that's right. You do

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Speaker 2: things that are irrational because you enjoy the exercise of connectivity.

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Speaker 2: M yeah. Right. And that has turned into a career,

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Speaker 2: and that has turned into this show. And that has

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Speaker 2: turned into all these other things and that's fantastic. But

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Speaker 2: the reason why it's important to have a purpose principle

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Speaker 2: is because when something hits the fan and something doesn't

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Speaker 2: work out, if it's tied to an outcome and not

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Speaker 2: just tied to the enjoyment, then it becomes really difficult

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Speaker 2: to work through.

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Speaker 1: So how do you help And you laid us out

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Speaker 1: in the book, like how to help people get over

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Speaker 1: the heel when they do eventually run into things, right,

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Speaker 1: Because whether you're just running your life or running your business,

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Speaker 1: there are always obstacles to overcome. So what are some

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Speaker 1: of the steps for kind of moving past those obstacles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So one of the chapters is all about fear,

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Speaker 2: because fear it's broken down into so many different things.

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Speaker 2: But for me, fear is broken down into fear of success,

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Speaker 2: fear of failure. And you have to identify what is

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Speaker 2: the thing that's holding you back, Like what is that

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Speaker 2: mindset framework that you need to work through that is

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Speaker 2: causing you not to reach your full potential or not

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Speaker 2: to be able to push forward. So there's a variety

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Speaker 2: of different chapters in the book that identify some of

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Speaker 2: these things. But let's just talk about fear. So for me,

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Speaker 2: what I suggest is that you get more comfortable being

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Speaker 2: bad at things. So I just told you all straight up,

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Speaker 2: I'm a bad gardener. I still do it. The more

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Speaker 2: you become comfortable with it, this is through exposure therapy,

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Speaker 2: then you're able to basically ground yourself in the reality

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Speaker 2: that it's just not that bad. What's the worst thing

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Speaker 2: that could happen? They say, no, the cucumber dies, you

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Speaker 2: don't get the extra upgrade at the hotel room that

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Speaker 2: you asked for, at the front lobby, whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: It just helps you practice this idea that failure is

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Speaker 2: not actually the worst outcome that your brain is thinking through.

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Speaker 2: And same thing with fear of success. There were times

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Speaker 2: in my career where I literally would not respond to

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Speaker 2: emails or go to events because I didn't want the

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Speaker 2: responsibility of all the people wanting something from me and

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Speaker 2: those new connections. I'm an introvert, maybe unlike you, I

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Speaker 2: was like more people budding things for me, no thank you.

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Speaker 2: So I was literally fearful of people noticing my value

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Speaker 2: and then wanting to move forward and collaborate or do

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Speaker 2: something next. Because I didn't feel like I had the

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Speaker 2: capacity to succeed with those folks. I was partially scared

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Speaker 2: of operating at that level. I was partially scared of okay,

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Speaker 2: and then what what if I can't handle all these

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Speaker 2: things that will come my way if I go to

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Speaker 2: this conference and I leave the conference from what if

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Speaker 2: I can't handle all the emails that come in my way.

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Speaker 2: Once an investor says yeah, I'm interested in this deck,

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Speaker 2: well I've got to actually respond to the pitch deck

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Speaker 2: and actually make the call and make the ask. So

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Speaker 2: I had to work through both my fear of failure

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Speaker 2: at times and my fear of success. But being able

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Speaker 2: to actually manage those is what has been my ability

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Speaker 2: to get to the next level. And I think for

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Speaker 2: most people listening to this, you are one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: capable of getting anywhere that you want to go in life.

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Speaker 2: But just like a CEO, it's your responsibility to make

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Speaker 2: the tough calls and to fix whatever thing you need

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Speaker 2: to work through.

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Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: bring that up, Morgan, because I think fear of success

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Speaker 1: is often a bigger fear for people like I think

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Speaker 1: we talked a lot about a fear of failure. But

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, we're getting more comfortable talking about

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Speaker 1: like what happens once you are successful and then there's

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Speaker 1: this next step, there's this next scaling and you are

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Speaker 1: no strangers to that, right Like you scaled your companies,

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Speaker 1: Levity is like one umbrella company with tons of things underneath.

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Speaker 1: And so what are some of the challenges and how

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Speaker 1: have you managed to kind of navigate the fear of

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Speaker 1: success in figuring out how to scale and put yourself

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Speaker 1: in new rooms and do the continuing expanding that you've done.

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Speaker 2: You know, the thing is, at our company, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of fear all the time because we are changing

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Speaker 2: so much. We are constantly evolving, and we're evolving in

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Speaker 2: a time where the market is changing right underneath this.

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Speaker 2: So we may say we've got a good plan to

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Speaker 2: manage traffic and advertising, and then the algorithm changes, right,

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Speaker 2: and so everybody's been heads down for six months working

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Speaker 2: on this thing and then that thing doesn't matter anymore,

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Speaker 2: and that can be really frustrating, and some people have

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Speaker 2: been like, I don't want to be a part of

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Speaker 2: this because it's hard because you've put this time in,

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Speaker 2: the time in is not necessarily getting the outcome that

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Speaker 2: you asked for or that you wanted. And the question

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Speaker 2: really is how do you become okay with I'm going

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Speaker 2: to do my best and I'm going to give it

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Speaker 2: my best effort, my max effort as I call it

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Speaker 2: in the book, and then I'm going to let the

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Speaker 2: chips follower it may the outcome is the outcome, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be okay with the outcome. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to dress it head on. I'm going to look at

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Speaker 2: the data, and then I'm going to make a decision

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Speaker 2: and decide what I want to do next. And then

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Speaker 2: how do you speed up that innovation cycle? And I

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Speaker 2: think the thing with success and fear is like the

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Speaker 2: faster that you can speed up your innovation cycle, the

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Speaker 2: faster you can make decisions and take action, get a result,

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Speaker 2: and then start over again. That's actually how people get

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Speaker 2: to the next level. It's not that they're better at

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Speaker 2: like the thing, they're better at being successful or they're

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Speaker 2: better at failure. They do it faster.

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Speaker 1: How have you taken care of your mental health throughout

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Speaker 1: all of these changes, scaling your companies, writing the book,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so many layers here. What kinds

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Speaker 1: of things have been really critical for you in terms

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Speaker 1: of taking care of your mental health.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'll be honest, I haven't always been good

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Speaker 2: at it. I mean there's definitely times I'd say you're

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Speaker 2: three to six at Blavity was pretty rough, rough for me,

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Speaker 2: rough for our employees, rough time pre COVID, during COVID,

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Speaker 2: and I talk about that a little bit, like what

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Speaker 2: do you do when you wake up in the morning

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Speaker 2: and you're like, I don't even like being the CEO

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Speaker 2: of this group, Like you guys all hate me, and

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Speaker 2: I don't like me either. I don't want to make

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Speaker 2: these decisions. I don't want to be the person deciding

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Speaker 2: our payroll and our benefits and our running the checks

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Speaker 2: to the bank. I don't want to do this either.

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Speaker 2: What do you do when you wake up and you

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Speaker 2: don't like you? And for me, the first thing that

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Speaker 2: I practice was meditation, was like just getting centered. Meditation

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Speaker 2: I think helped me get grounded when I felt like

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Speaker 2: my brain was all over the place. And then the

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Speaker 2: second thing was higher help and I hired people who

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Speaker 2: were experts at things that I had a lot of

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Speaker 2: anxiety around. Experts in finance, legal, et cetera. And then

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Speaker 2: eventually I hired a therapist when I was moving from

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Speaker 2: LA to Nashville and I was making that big transition,

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Speaker 2: And the reason I made that transition was again because

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Speaker 2: I was trying to rebalance how I was spending my

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Speaker 2: time so that I had more time for myself and

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Speaker 2: less time for the business, which had completely taken over

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Speaker 2: my life. And I wanted someone to hold me accountable

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Speaker 2: to that commitment because I knew how easy it was

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Speaker 2: going to be to just go with the flow and

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Speaker 2: to go with all the things that people wanted from

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Speaker 2: me all the time. And so I hired a therapist

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Speaker 2: that I could walk to her couch, and every two weeks,

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Speaker 2: I walked to that couch and she would hold me

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Speaker 2: accountable to what I said I wanted to do. I

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Speaker 2: did that for about six months until I felt like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I feel like we've gone through this transition and we

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Speaker 2: have those habits. And then I'm kind of one of

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Speaker 2: those people who hires therapists as like advisors. So I

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Speaker 2: have an executive coach, and then I also have a

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Speaker 2: therapist currently that's a relationship therapist, because my fiance is

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Speaker 2: also a entrepreneur, so we have a lot going and

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Speaker 2: on in our house, and so just helping us through

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Speaker 2: that transition of wedding and babies and all of the

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Speaker 2: things that go into building a life together.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're really kind of identifying these

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Speaker 1: six pillars that you talk about in the book, right,

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Speaker 1: that are necessary for you to be the visionary of

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Speaker 1: a company and your own life. Can you talk more

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Speaker 1: about those pillars and how people might do some assessing

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Speaker 1: in their own lives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the pillar framework, there's six pillars that I

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Speaker 2: basically live by and I suggest most people live by

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Speaker 2: them as well. At any given point, you can prioritize

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Speaker 2: three of them. And this is where people are like,

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Speaker 2: oh man, you know I would love to you cannot

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Speaker 2: do all the things. You just can't. Like that whole

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Speaker 2: saying of like you can have it all but not

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Speaker 2: At the same time, I completely agree with that. You

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Speaker 2: absolutely can have it all, but you've got to prioritize

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Speaker 2: a couple things first and then put everything else in

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Speaker 2: maintenance mode, just like if you're on a diet, just

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Speaker 2: put it in a maintenance mode. So the pillars are pretty straightforward. Stability.

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Speaker 2: How stable do you feel do you feel grounded. Do

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Speaker 2: you feel like things are chaotic? Freedom? Are you free

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Speaker 2: to make your own decisions? Are you spending your time

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Speaker 2: the way you want to spend your time? Is it

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Speaker 2: dictated by yourself or is it dictated by others? Money?

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Speaker 2: Do you have the discretionary income that you need or

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Speaker 2: you want need first and then want passions? What are

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Speaker 2: you doing just for you? Are you spending time doing

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Speaker 2: something that makes you happy that is not for monetary

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Speaker 2: gain but is purely for yourself. Relationships, relationships with God,

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Speaker 2: relationships with your community, relationships and your personal life. And

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Speaker 2: then lastly wellness. So how healthy are you? None of

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Speaker 2: this matters if you don't feel good, if your mind

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Speaker 2: is all over the place, if you don't feel grounded.

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Speaker 2: But then also of course taking care of your body

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Speaker 2: and any given point in any given season, these three

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Speaker 2: are going to rotate. Out of these six, three of

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Speaker 2: them are going to rotate to the front. So right now,

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Speaker 2: for me, freedom is a priority. Relationships, my family is

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Speaker 2: super important. Got a young kid, he's a sponge, you know,

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Speaker 2: he needs a lot of my time and attention. And

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Speaker 2: then I'd probably say stability to some extent. It's a

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Speaker 2: crazy world right now, and I'm doing my best to

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Speaker 2: keep our company and our family stable despite everything going

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Speaker 2: on in the world. Wellness, your girl misses her pilate's appointments,

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Speaker 2: just canceled one last night. You're doing the best that

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Speaker 2: we can't out here. I had all intention of going,

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Speaker 2: but I don't say, oh, man, like, I don't shame

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Speaker 2: myself for canceling it. I let myself cancel it, you know,

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Speaker 2: so certain things fall to the wayside. I still have

433
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 2: all intentions of doing it, but I don't beat myself up.

434
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 2: It doesn't mm hmm.

435
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: I'm glad you added that because I was definitely gonna ask, like,

436
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: you know, because I think that is a lot of

437
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: us get really critical of ourselves, right and like, oh

438
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: I messed up my pillars and that kind thing. But

439
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: it is about giving yourself grace and like, Okay, I

440
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: can start over again tomorrow and figure out what the

441
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: priority is going to be.

442
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: You can change your pillars at any given point, and

443
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: I recommend it. I do an audit of myself. Every

444
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: quarter is just like, okay, what's the priority this upcoming quarter?

445
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: Just like in business, every quarter, we've got a game plan,

446
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 2: we have a goal, we know where we're going. We

447
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: have risks that we have to actively manage, and we

448
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: change our goals as things adjust, as the changes in

449
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 2: the market happen, we might adjust our projections and manage

450
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: our own expectations. That's fine, you know, we have to

451
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: be willing to be flexible with how we operate in

452
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: this world. But it is important, I believe, for everybody

453
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 2: to have some clarity on where they're going.

454
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And one of the ways that you talk

455
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: about a lot in the book by that really offer

456
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: you clarity is knowing your data. So what are the numbers?

457
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 1: And as somebody who like doesn't always love to like

458
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: deal in the numbers, like it's not my thing, I

459
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: was like, she has a point here, Like I can

460
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: see it. So talk about the importance of being really

461
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: data driven in our lives and like being aware of

462
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: our numbers, both in buses, this and personally.

463
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 2: If there is one thing in the book that will

464
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: change your life or thing at all, it's knowing your numbers.

465
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 2: It's knowing what is happening. In reality, too many of

466
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 2: us are just aware that data is around us, aware

467
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: that our data is being tracked, aware that there's something

468
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: on our watch this clock in our steps. We're aware

469
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: of it, but we're not using it to make informed

470
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: decisions that could really make our lives easier. And this

471
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: isn't just about work. This is in wellness, This is

472
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: in relationships. I give examples in the book on how

473
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: you can apply this to every single pillar. But the

474
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: point of it is to get more comfortable saying and

475
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 2: being really sitting in the truth of this is where

476
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 2: I am. I can't tell you how many entrepreneurs ask

477
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: me for advice or coaching and I say, well, how

478
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 2: much money did you make last month? And they can't

479
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: tell me. They can't tell me, Or I'd say, well,

480
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: in the last six months, what's your product that's gotten

481
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: you the best results, like has the highest product margin.

482
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: They can't tell me. They can tell me what they want.

483
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: They can tell me where they think they're going. Before

484
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: we can even talk about where you're going. I need

485
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: to understand what's working already so that we can build

486
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: from your strengths, which is going to be easier than

487
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: building from your weaknesses. Same thing with customers, Same thing

488
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: with my sales team. When I'm coaching and advising our

489
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: sales team and they're coming up with these big sales plans.

490
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 2: They want to make a million dollars this year, two

491
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: million dollars this year. Whatever. Don't send me a lead

492
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: list that's from scratch. Show me what you made last year.

493
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: Make me a list to all the accounts from last

494
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: year and what they spent last year, and then make

495
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: a decision on is this going to grow? Is this

496
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: going to decline? Then that's your baseline. Now we can

497
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: figure out what the gap is from there. Okay, well

498
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: you're already at six fifty, so now we just got

499
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,239
Speaker 2: to get another three to fifty to be able to

500
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: fill it in. Right, So knowing your data just really

501
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: helps provide clarity on an action realistic plan instead of

502
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 2: a pie in the sky pipe dream that so many

503
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: people are walking around with.

504
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: So you've kind of alluded to this a couple of times, Morgan,

505
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: but Blevity, it sounds like really took off for you

506
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen following the death of Michael Brown, right

507
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: like you kind of found yourself feeling like, Okay, I

508
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: want to be doing more. I mean, we find ourselves

509
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: now where DEI is being slashed and so many rollbacks

510
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: and so as the CEO the company that you lead

511
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: right blevity, you find yourself I think at a very

512
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: interesting intersection. So can you talk about how you think

513
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: through the outside world and how it impacts what happens

514
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: in your actual company.

515
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Man, it is really rough right now

516
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 2: for everyone. It's rough for small business owners that are

517
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 2: managing the political climate and the increasing costs of labor

518
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: and increasing costs of just cost of goods, whether you're

519
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: materials because you're in construction, or the cost of the

520
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 2: things that are being shipped in because you're in retail. Whatever.

521
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: It's expensive doing this today, more expensive today than it

522
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: was two years ago, and certainly more expensive than five

523
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: or ten years ago. At the same time, there's things

524
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: that are outside of our control that are happening related

525
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: to the political climate. For most black businesses, they had

526
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 2: their best year ever in twenty twenty two and maybe

527
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, maybe early twenty twenty one to twenty

528
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: twenty three. They were getting local news, they were getting

529
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: white people buying their products. They never had white customers before.

530
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: I mean, they were getting the spotlight for blavity. It

531
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: was an interesting time because we were also dealing with

532
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: COVID and we have a huge events business. Right we

533
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: have the largest tech conference in the world that's for

534
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: black audiences. We have a huge festival business, blavity Fest,

535
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: which is coming to Atlanta in a few months, and

536
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: we had to figure out how do you keep the

537
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: community alive in a virtual world. So when it comes

538
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 2: to managing macro risks to figure out first what's in

539
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: your control, which is pretty much nothing, and then you

540
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: have to decide, Okay, how risky am I going to

541
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: be in this season? Am I going to try to

542
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: beat theachts? Or am I going to try to basically

543
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: make the market. So for me, that looks like managing

544
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: my expectations around goals. There's been years where I'm like,

545
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: double it, double the conference, double our revenue, double our profits.

546
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: This year, I was like, honestly, cheaper the keeper. I'd

547
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: be happy if we did what we did last year,

548
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: which is a little bit more profitable. I'm not even

549
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 2: gonna sweat You'll just give me what you gave me

550
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: last year, and I'm gonna figure out how to manage

551
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: the costs on the back. Like I have to manage

552
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: my expectations, because that's what realistic is looking like for today,

553
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: and that helps me also manage the mental of my employees.

554
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: If I go to an employee and I say you

555
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: got to double affrotech in a market in which all

556
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: of our clients are pulling back on DEI, they're gonna

557
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: look at me like I'm nuts, and they're gonna have a

558
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: lot of anxiety. So part of my responsibility as a

559
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: leader is to also set realistic expectations for the people

560
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: around me so they can do their best work and

561
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: they can be in their code of genius. So when

562
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: it comes to DENI and even someone who might be

563
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: listening to this and say like, Okay, well what do

564
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: I do? Here's the thing. There's some fundamental businesses and

565
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: there's fundamental services and values that aren't going to change.

566
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: What I mean by that, if your product is really good,

567
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter that you were black owned or not

568
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: Being black owned during a time where there's a lot

569
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: of spotlight on us was helpful because it allowed us

570
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: to get equal opportunity to access to the opportunity. It

571
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: gave us access to the funding, It gave us access

572
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: to more customers. It gave us access to retail shelves.

573
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: But once you get on the shelves, your product should

574
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: be good enough that you should be able to stay there.

575
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: And here's the thing, nothing is required of these companies.

576
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: These are for profit entities. So this entitlement to equal

577
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: retention not performing at the same level as the other companies,

578
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: they're not required for you to stay there because this

579
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: is a for profit business. What what was required was equal

580
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: opportunity to get into the door. Now there's all these

581
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: reasons for systemic racism where a lot of companies can't

582
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: have equal value. Maybe they don't have access to funding,

583
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: they don't have this right team, there's all these other reasons,

584
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: but that's not that company's job. Their job was to

585
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: give you access to the shelf at Target. It's up

586
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 2: to you to stay there. And I think what we're

587
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: saying now is that all that grace that was given

588
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: it's just completely gone. But the real businesses that were

589
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: really strong, they're still there. Just like Afrotech is going

590
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: to exist. We're gonna be fine. Am I gonna make

591
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: as much money as I used to? Probably not, but

592
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: it's going to exist and it's gonna be fine.

593
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: So you would encourage entrepreneurs and people who maybe have

594
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: been thinking about like, Okay, how do I keep this

595
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: thing afloat to really focus on, like making a good product.

596
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I know it's not so basic, but yeah,

597
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 2: like is it good? Take black out of it? Is

598
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: your product good? Is your service good? Are you delivering

599
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: on the promise for your customer? If you are a

600
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: curly girl, you know I use Camille Rose on my

601
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: hair this morning. It's a good product. Like it works.

602
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: This is softy, no crunch, it's good. So I don't

603
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: care if this could be owned by a random Chinese man.

604
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: It's not as black owned, but like it could be

605
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: owned by somebody, it wouldn't matter. I use olaplex why

606
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: because it's good. I don't know who owns Olaplex is

607
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: probably a private equity firm. I do not care because

608
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: it works. Right, So be really excellent at what you do,

609
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: so much so that people can't take it away from

610
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: you when that opportunity becomes not trending anymore.

611
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: Got it more from our conversation after the break. Have

612
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: you heard the news Therapy from Black Girls is launching

613
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: our community on Patreon. It's your space to be seen, heard,

614
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: and un in an even more connected way. We're excited

615
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: to bring you new segments like so my Therapist said,

616
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: where we break down viral therapy, hot takes with real

617
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: mental health professionals, TBG community chats where we unpack trending

618
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: pop culture topics that have us all in our feelings,

619
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: and opportunities to connect with other sisters all over the world.

620
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: Sign up now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash

621
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: join Patreon for all the details about what we're planning

622
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: and to be the first to know when the doors

623
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: are open. We can't wait to see you inside. So

624
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: one of the key to your success has also been

625
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: really leaning into community and like making the right hires.

626
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: So I was really excited to hear you talk more

627
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: about like meeting Jackie, I think, and kind of being

628
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: the person who really helps to kind of ignite some

629
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: of those early hires for blavity. And I think many

630
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: of us are socialized to be very quiet about the

631
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: things we're struggling with, right and so I'm thinking, like,

632
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: if you had not share with Jackie that I really

633
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: need help in this area, you might not have had

634
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: those hires that you did. How can people get more

635
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: comfortable kind of peeling back the layers and being you know,

636
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: more honest and transparent about the things we're struggling with

637
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: in our businesses.

638
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: You have to assume that most people are good and

639
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: most people want to help if they can, and if

640
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: you tell them exactly what you need, people will show

641
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: up for you. And I've learned that even on this

642
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: book tour, you know, I've had people text me and

643
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: be like, I know you're not going to ask, so

644
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: this is what I'm going to do to help you

645
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: with your book tour, you know, And I'm like, you

646
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: are so sweet, this is so helpful, you know. And

647
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: I mean even you're like, yeah, of course, let's talk

648
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: right Like, So I think first it's just starting from

649
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: a place of abundance of most people want to help

650
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: if they can't, and so it's on you to identify

651
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: how other people can help and make it easy for them. Now,

652
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: my girlfriend Jackie, she was a receptionist at the time,

653
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: and she is just so lovable and she is so warm,

654
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: and she is so she like loves people. She is

655
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 2: that is like one of her core pillars is like

656
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with just interesting people and I'm like, I

657
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: would prefer to sit in the darken code and sit

658
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: with my laptop and figure out how to make this

659
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: make sense. And so I was just like really struggling,

660
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 2: and she was on her couch because I was raising

661
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: money and I couldn't afford hotel room. So she lived

662
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 2: in Oakland, So I was raising money in the Bay

663
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: and I was just complaining and she was like, I

664
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: can help you with that. I can't help you find

665
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: people to work for you. And even people that she

666
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 2: hired are still with us at Blavity today ten years later.

667
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: I mean, that's how good of a recruiter she is,

668
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: and fundamentally changed our entire business because she was really

669
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: good at persuading people to take this really, really risky

670
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 2: step in their career to work for a twenty six

671
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 2: year old black girl from Saint Louis who had barely

672
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: raised half a million dollars full time and be a

673
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: part of this mission and this vision of this thing

674
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 2: that we were trying to build. And I'm forever grateful

675
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: to her. But I think the key of this story

676
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: is you don't know who's in your own rolodex. I mean,

677
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: how many people do we go to high school or

678
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,439
Speaker 2: college with and we look on LinkedIn and we're like, damn, girl,

679
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: I didn't know you did that because you're still thinking

680
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: of them in their high school or college days. You're

681
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 2: not necessarily thinking them as somebody who's now the senior

682
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 2: media buyer at Laoreel, who could be your first sponsor

683
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: for your event that you're doing on the side, right,

684
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 2: So part of it is just teaching people to reframe

685
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 2: their mindset around bartering and around building relationships and using

686
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: the tribe that they have. You don't always have to

687
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: spend money. Now. Jackie is a boss Silicon Valley recruiter.

688
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: Like I said, she went from receptionist to recruiter. We

689
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: were her first clients, so we were her first case study, right,

690
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: and that helped her on her trajectory. So you also

691
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: do never know who you're helping by giving them an

692
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: opportunity to help you.

693
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: What kinds of and things need to be put in

694
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: place when you are working with people kind of in

695
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: your circle, right, Because I think it's different if you

696
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: just hire somebody off a fiver or something. If it's

697
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: your girl, well you got to be careful. I think

698
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: sometimes that can be excellent, like in your case, and

699
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: sometimes not so good. So how do you think through

700
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: kind of protecting the relationship and your business when you're

701
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: hiring friends and family. Maybe yeah.

702
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 2: I mean there was a time when we fired each other.

703
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: You know, Jackie is no longer recruiter for Blavity, And

704
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 2: first things first, when I could afford to pay her,

705
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: I did. I really tried to make sure that we

706
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: had a clear transaction. I believe we had a contract,

707
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 2: so we had to mutual understanding. And the second thing

708
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: that I did was make sure that it wasn't just

709
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: me making decisions, like she went through the process of

710
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: recruiting for other people, and they were evaluating her at

711
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: the face level of being a recruiter, regardless of my

712
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: relationship with her, but at least the best of my ability,

713
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: And I think that was really helpful. So I wasn't

714
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: the only person interacting with her, and I think that

715
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: allowed us to have some objectivity of like, when is

716
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: this relationship to a point where I'm not a good

717
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: client for you and you're not a good recruiter for us,

718
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 2: and it's time for us to expand those options. Because

719
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 2: we had other people in the room. So I think

720
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: for anyone who's evaluating, when is it time to you know,

721
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: I got the homie helping me with legal I've got

722
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 2: the homie, like coaching me on the side or whatever

723
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 2: it is. Figure out a way to be objective and

724
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: make sure you have some sort of contract or some

725
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: sort of milestone in place so that there's a natural end.

726
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 2: So you might say a time frame three months, six months,

727
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 2: or it might be if you're doing something like, hey,

728
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: this person's going to help me with interior designing my house. Okay, cool.

729
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: Like provide some sort of cap and I talk about

730
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: this in the book, but like, provide some sort of

731
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: boundaries and cap to this relationship so that you know

732
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: you're not shortchanging yourself and you're not shortchanging somebody you

733
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: also care about.

734
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's important. So something else you talk about is

735
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: like the differences between contentment and happiness and how contentment

736
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: really should be a goal for us as opposed to happiness.

737
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: What are the differences for those things? In your mind?

738
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 2: When people ask you, you know, I want to be happy,

739
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 2: I want to feel happy. People typically only say that

740
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: when they don't feel happy, Like when people are like,

741
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: how's it going, I'm like, everything's going good because I'm content.

742
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: So I think that we have conflated the two. But

743
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: contentment is really what you're striving for, which is I

744
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: feel like peace with my day to day. I wake

745
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: up every morning and I feel joy, and I have

746
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: little moments throughout my day where everything is like perfect

747
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 2: is great, not too high and not too low. There

748
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: are moments of happiness that I feel, but I do

749
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: not strive to be happy as a state. I strive

750
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: to be content, and I think that that also has

751
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: managed my expectations of what it's like to live a

752
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: really stable, grounded life, full of love, full of family,

753
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: full of challenges at work and personal challenges. That that

754
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: is a part of my life, something that I'm grateful for,

755
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 2: to have such a full life where I can have

756
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: those ups and downs, but never to be back in

757
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: the place where I was when I first started the company,

758
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 2: where the lows felt just terrible, pick me off the floor.

759
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: I cannot move on lows, and where the highs were,

760
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, we had a million dollars in the bank,

761
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 2: like where we going, let's pop bottles too high and

762
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 2: too low. I prefer to be right in the middle

763
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: and to have different moments. Hopefully that resonates with people.

764
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,479
Speaker 2: I think it's a bit counterintuitive, but when you feel

765
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 2: that level of peace, you know you've made it because

766
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: you're like wow, like, yeah, life is good. I mean,

767
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: what do you think?

768
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think we have completed the two. I

769
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are chasing happiness, and it's

770
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: sometimes it's really hard to quantify that. But you know,

771
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: I think good visualization exercises, like if you were happy tomorrow,

772
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: what would that look like, help people get closer to contentment,

773
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: which is what you're talking about.

774
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And usually it's when I ask people that question,

775
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 2: usually they need to fix one of their pillars, Like

776
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: for them to be happy, it's because they feel unstable,

777
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: or for them to be happy, they need a little

778
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: bit more money to be able to make ends meets like,

779
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: it's usually because something is off. It's usually not like

780
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: a plus side. It's usually fixing something that's not working

781
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: the way that they want it to work.

782
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. So as much as you are encouraging people to

783
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: rewrite their rules, you even share it in the book,

784
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: you're dad not being super happy when you're like, I'm

785
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: leaving this till all a valid job, And I can

786
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: imagine other readers will also identify with like people in

787
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: their lives not being super excited or like really understanding

788
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: this new vision they're writing for themselves. What would you

789
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: say to people who are facing some pushback from people

790
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: in their lives around this new vision they have for themselves.

791
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: I think it's important to communicate it to the people

792
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 2: around you, because there's something in the magical that happens.

793
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: When you start to share with people your intentions of

794
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 2: change and where you're trying to go, people magically start

795
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 2: to help you. People magically start to help you move

796
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: these mountains that are in front of you. At the

797
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: same time, when you do communicate these things in these big,

798
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: juicy visions of your life and where you want to go,

799
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: You're going to get people who say, why are you

800
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 2: taking on this risk? Everything is fine, You've worked so

801
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: hard to get to where you are. Why do you

802
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: want to change? And unfortunately that was my own father.

803
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: There were times when I didn't even come home from

804
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 2: La or San Francisco because I could not stand sitting

805
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 2: at the dinner table and my dad calling blavity a hobby.

806
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: It would drive me nuts. I would cry, It would

807
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: drive me nuts. It was so painful because I'm sacrificing

808
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: everything for this vision and you're calling a hobby and

809
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 2: it's not did my job. I'm not making any money,

810
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: but it's my job. And I think that you have

811
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: to learn to live for yourself. I think that it

812
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: took me until my miss in twenties to really realize

813
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: and accept I'm the one that wakes up every morning

814
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: and has to live my life. I'm the one that

815
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,479
Speaker 2: has to sit with the consequences of my choices. I'm

816
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: the one doing these things. It's not my mom and

817
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 2: my dad anymore. That disassociation from that expectation that we

818
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: have as a child and parent relationship. Some people get

819
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: it earlier, for better or worse, in high school, some

820
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: people when they went to college. For me, it took

821
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 2: longer to live for myself and not have that expectation

822
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: of them. Now, I still have core values that are

823
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: part of our family kind of upbringing. But my core

824
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: values of our upbringing I'm actually still honoring, which is

825
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 2: help other people do the right thing, support black folks

826
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: and with the work that you do, and be of service.

827
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: Like he wanted me to be a doctor. If he

828
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: didn't read the book yet, that's TLDR. Like every other

829
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: black dad in America. He wanted to be a doctor

830
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 2: or a lawyer, and I was like, yeah, no, I'm

831
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 2: not going to do that. I don't think it was

832
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: until I got into maybe I was in like a

833
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 2: Black Enterprise magazine or Essence magazine. Mind you, I had

834
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 2: already raised like a couple million, but I finally got

835
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: in one of the magazines, and I think he was

836
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: then like, Oh, Okay, this looks like it's real, and

837
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: now he's my greatest fan. Like my dad travels to

838
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: Nigeria and brings blavity stickers all the way to Canos.

839
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: So people will change their minds. But it was important,

840
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 2: I think for me to figure out for myself who

841
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 2: I was, regardless of my parents' expectations.

842
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: So how are you hoping that readers will engage with

843
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: rewrite your rules? What are you hoping they do on

844
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: the other end of reading.

845
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: I'm really excited for people to read this book. I

846
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: designed it as a toolkit. I designed it for people

847
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: to use this to help them make decisions about how

848
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: they're going to move through the world, so that they

849
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: can move with more success and more ease, and hopefully

850
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: faster than what they would have done if they hadn't

851
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: had this tool in this resource. My hope is also

852
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: that people revisit this book when they're in seasons will change.

853
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: So maybe you go through it in one time and

854
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: because you're trying to figure out how to quit your

855
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: job and be a full time entrepreneur, and then throughout

856
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: the book you realize, actually, I want to keep my

857
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 2: day job because I actually value stability, but I'm going

858
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: to take my discretionary income from my day job and

859
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: investing in my side hustle. And then your side hustle

860
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: starts to get so big and you're like, okay, wait,

861
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: maybe it's time for me to quit again. Let me

862
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 2: read it back through the book. Let me look at

863
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: my team again, let me look at my data again,

864
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: let me evaluate what's holding me back. Right, Like, my

865
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: goal is that this is the book that people are

866
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 2: able to revisit and revisit these steps most importantly throughout

867
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: their lives because it's what I do and it's allowed me,

868
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: I think, to have a lot more ease with how

869
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 2: I operate.

870
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: So where can we stay connected with you? Where can

871
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: we get our copy of the book? And what do

872
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: you have coming up with levity that you want to share?

873
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can go to rewrite your Rules dot com.

874
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: I also have a worksheet for people who submit their receipts.

875
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: So if you want kind of basically the workbook to

876
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: be able to show you how to do these steps,

877
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: you can get that on my website Rewrite your Rules

878
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: dot Com. Then I also have a podcast where I

879
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: talk through my journey. It's called The Journey by Morgan Debon,

880
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: and I just walk through the ups, the downs. I

881
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: talk about di I talk about scaling businesses, I talk

882
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: about getting married, I talk about everything kind of going on.

883
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 2: Because I think it's important for people to share how

884
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: they live out loud and operate out loud. You know,

885
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 2: we all have a privilege of being able to operate

886
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: in the space at this level. It's important that we

887
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: share it and give it back to other people as well.

888
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 2: So I look forward to hearing everybody's success stories and

889
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: sending me the dms of all their frameworks and how

890
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: they're applying it in their everyday lives.

891
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: Perfect and where can we find you on social You.

892
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: Can find me at Morgan Debon everywhere on the internet.

893
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: Beautiful. We sure to include all of that in the

894
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time

895
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: with us today.

896
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 2: Wagon thanks for having me. Of course, I'm so.

897
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: Glad I'm working could join us for today's conversation to

898
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: learn more about her and rewrite your rules. Be sure

899
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot

900
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: com slash Session four five, and don't forget to text

901
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: two of your girls right now and tell them to

902
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: check out the episode. Did you know? You can leave

903
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: us a voicemail with your questions for the podcast. If

904
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: you want to suggest movies or books for us to review,

905
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: or even give thoughts around topics you'd like to hear

906
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: discussed on the podcast. Drop us a message at Memo

907
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us

908
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: know what's on your mind. We just might feature it

909
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapists in

910
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls

911
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 1: dot com slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis,

912
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: Indie Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.

913
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.

914
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

915
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care