1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today? 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: You're not interested in armed now? No, look, we're going 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation. 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: Hey, film Spotters were digging deep into the archive, going 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 2: way back to episode four nineteen. Michael Phillips joined us 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 2: for a Sacred Cow conversation about Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 2: which is forty five this year, and we thought it 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: was only fitting because we're talking about Zach Kraiger's weapons, 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: a huge influence on Craiger as a filmmaker. If you 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 2: google his name, Josh, you will find Kubrick in The 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 2: Shining mentioned almost in any conversation that this filmmaker has. 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: And of course when you watch the film, you know 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 2: that that time two seventeen comes up again and again, 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: And I thought, well, is that the is that the 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: room and the Shining? There has to be some relevance, right, 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: And then I remember me, waight, no, maybe it's just 17 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 2: random because the room is two three seven. Well I 18 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: did a little bit more digging. Two one seven is 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: the book, the Stephen King book The Shining. Turns out 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 2: two one seven is the room. 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 3: There Craiger trying to provey smarter than all of us. 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 4: There you go with that one. 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, we didn't play a ton of spot the reference 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: in our review of weapons, we name checked a movie 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: or two, but definitely the Shining is in that mix. 26 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 3: And yeah, never a bad time to talk about the Shining. 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 3: And you know, if you are a member the Film 28 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 3: Spotting Family, you have access to our archives, so you 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: could listen to an older show like this any time 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: you want, reviews, top fives, all that good stuff, going 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: all the way back to two thousand and five. So yeah, 32 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 3: archive access, it's just one of the benefits you get 33 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 3: as a member of the Film Spotting Family. If you're 34 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 3: not a member already, please do consider joining. It keeps 35 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 3: us doing this show and you can learn more at 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 3: Filmspotting Family dot com. From episode four nineteen, then here 37 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: is that Sacred Cow review of the Shining. 38 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: Crab. 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:28,279 Speaker 5: Here's Johnny, I'm coming down, come and play with us. 40 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 3: How much does the Shining mess with our heads, Adam 41 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 3: and Michael? So much that some thirty years later, a 42 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 3: documentary has been made profiling the way fans of the 43 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 3: film have been haunted by it over the years. Room two, three, seven, 44 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 3: which was recently shown at the Chicago International Film Festival, 45 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 3: digs into the various interpretations and conspiracy theories that obsessive 46 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: viewers have come up with in their attempts to explain 47 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 3: this deeply disturbing film. I wonder if these theories are 48 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 3: in some sense of defense mechan a way to process 49 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 3: the terror that the movie causes. After all, if it 50 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 3: can be reduced to a puzzle that's been solved, the 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 3: Shining is perhaps less troubling. 52 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: Michael. 53 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 3: The last time you were with us, we learned of 54 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: your love for Jaws, So I know that great white 55 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 3: sharks scare you. I'm not sure how you feel, however, 56 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: about creepy twin girls decomposing bodies in bathtubs or elevators 57 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: bursting with blood. Did the Shining get to you then 58 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty and does it still have the power 59 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: to disturb you today? 60 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: This is the question. This is the question. It's the 61 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: essential question. 62 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 5: Say this is the great It's a film. I honestly, Josh, 63 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 5: I honestly don't have settled, fixed opinions on a lot 64 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 5: of the Kubrick work that post dates two thousand and one. 65 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 5: A space honesty, I know the films I absolutely adore 66 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 5: of his and seem to get so much out of 67 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 5: every new experience with them. They tend to be the 68 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 5: They tend to be the period from nineteen fifty six 69 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 5: the Killing up through and including two thousand and one. 70 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: And I'm much more. 71 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 5: Not ambivalent because he's too he's too distinctive a filmmaker 72 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 5: to provoke ambivalence in a viewer. 73 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: I think, but I'm much I tend to. 74 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 5: I tend to slip around and change my mind depending 75 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 5: on how many years have gone by on almost everything 76 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 5: he made since then, up until his UH and including 77 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 5: his final film, Eyes White Shot. I I did love 78 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 5: going back to the Shining for this show because it 79 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 5: had been years and years since I saw it, and 80 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 5: just to kind of see and remember what that incredible 81 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 5: elegance of those steady cam shots and and that really 82 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 5: that's not a minor issue in this film. It's it's 83 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 5: a major issue with so much of the film is 84 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 5: spent barreling behind Danny on that big Wheel, which takes 85 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 5: you just seeing the big wheel in action on all 86 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 5: all through those amazing maze like quarters of the Overloak Hotel. 87 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: It's it's it's. 88 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 5: Why a lot of the lot of the film does 89 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 5: feel hypnotic because it is visually casting a kind of trance. 90 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 5: But I also, Josh, do feel that I haven't changed 91 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 5: my opinion in one way in that the common complaint 92 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 5: about Nicholson's performance in The Shining that it goes bug 93 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 5: House too early, and that you see the documentaries and 94 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 5: you read a little more about you know, you know 95 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 5: the dozens and dozens of takes that Cubrick was taking, 96 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 5: and he tended to I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. 97 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 5: He tended to always select the nuttier, more outsized editions 98 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 5: of whatever Nicholson was coming up with, and sometimes he 99 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 5: would do align a scene or set a tone in 100 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 5: a more sympathetic, comforting way, and Kubrick would never. 101 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: Choose that take. It was always the crazier one. Sam 102 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: at them. 103 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 5: In the same time, he was always trying to get 104 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 5: Shelley Duvall to play it a little less nuts. And 105 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 5: the film has a very strange tension because really it's 106 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 5: not a horror film. I mean, I don't even know 107 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 5: what I think of it. Frankly, again, I. 108 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: Just saw it, but even after seeing it recently. 109 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 5: Is not a horror film. It is just it's a 110 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 5: black comedy about an America, a particularly American kind of 111 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 5: family that deserves what's happening to them. 112 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: Okay, I know Adam that it terrifies you, at least 113 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 3: in references that you've made on the show. We hadn't 114 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 3: really dug into it at any point. Is that something 115 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: that it did for you right away when you first 116 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 3: saw it? And when did you first see it? Because 117 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty hopefully you were a little young to have 118 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: seen it then. But I'm assuming this is a tear 119 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 3: you've had sent your childhood at some point. 120 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. My parents, I've said this before on 121 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: the show. They didn't really stop me from watching anything. 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: I had a TV in my bedroom pretty early. I 123 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: had HBO pretty early. I was lucky, and so they 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: didn't shield me from watching things like The Shining that 125 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: I shouldn't have been watching. And I saw some of 126 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: this stuff. 127 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: And how were you then? 128 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: I was probably eight or nine or ten when I 129 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: saw the Terrific Yeah, exactly explained everything it does. But 130 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: I probably never saw the entire film. I just saw 131 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: parts of it, partly because I was too terrified to 132 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: watch the entire film. I don't think I actually saw 133 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: the film in its entirety until I was in and 134 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,119 Speaker 2: was going through a little bit of a Kubrick phase, 135 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: as I think we all went through at some point 136 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 2: in our cinematic lives. So this was fun for me 137 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: to go back and revisit. And in terms of whether 138 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: or not it still scares me, it didn't this time, thankfully, 139 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: because I had my wife sitting next to me, So 140 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: even though we were sitting bars a part in my 141 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: basement in the dark, and when those twins come on 142 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: screen and those strings, that eerie music leaps up on you, 143 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: I didn't jump out of the couch because my wife 144 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: was there to protect me, so she kept everything on 145 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: an even keel, which is great. But I love what 146 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: you said about the cinematography. I think you can't help 147 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: but talk about the film without mentioning John alcott cinematography 148 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: and the steadycam used. They actually got the guy who 149 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: invented the steadycam to run the steadycam on this film. 150 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 4: And hypnotic is the right word. 151 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: But it's not just in terms of what the steadycam 152 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: is doing in the movement and how fluid it is. 153 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: It's also even in I think the dialogue scenes, how 154 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: he calms the camera down in scenes like the meeting 155 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: with Olman when he takes the job and has offered 156 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: the job early in the film, he doesn't do anything 157 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: really crazy with the camera at all. It settles into 158 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: this really simple back and forth shot reverse shot style, 159 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: the same shots every time that almost luwly you to 160 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: sleep a little bit, the same way the steady cam does. 161 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: And the deep focus, of course, here is another fascinating 162 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: part of the film, and they're using these wide lenses 163 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: to make the characters look so dwarfed inside the overlook. 164 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: But then you realize what he's doing in the close 165 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: ups where he deliberately tries to get rid of all 166 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: the deep focus he can, which is pretty normal with 167 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: a close up anyway, but there's no focus at all, 168 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: So all you can see in these moments is the face. 169 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: Those shots that you've see in a lot of Kubrick 170 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 2: films are that close up straight on of the face. 171 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: I love how we get that jexposition of all that 172 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: deep focus and then no deep focus at all, and 173 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: you just look at the face there. So right from 174 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: that opening helicopter sequence, you know you're in for something 175 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 2: really interesting with this film and what the camera is 176 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: going to do, And I just want to mention that, 177 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: going back to Nicholson's performance, we could probably spend the 178 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: whole show just talking about that performance and what we 179 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: make of it. There's no doubt he goes a little 180 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: crazy and he's big right away in this film. But 181 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: watching it again this time, it occurred to me that 182 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 2: there's actually a sense from the very beginning that everything 183 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,599 Speaker 2: here is preordained, which makes sense when you get to 184 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: the end of the film. But you think about some 185 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: of the references that are made early in this film. 186 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: There's the Donner party conversation as the family's driving to 187 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 2: the overlook, the music that is eerie right from the 188 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: beginning of the film, with the helicopter sequence, the fact 189 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 2: that we learned that the hotel's built on a burial ground, 190 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: an Indian burial ground, and you even get things like 191 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: Shelley Duval being shown the freezer and the storage room 192 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: down in the kitchen as if it's foreshadowing that she's 193 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: gonna end up using this room later. So there's a 194 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: sense that this family's doomed from the very beginning. It's 195 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: not really about any kind of suspense building on whether 196 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 2: or not Jack Nicholson is going to lose his mind. 197 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: It's just a matter of when and how many casualties 198 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: they're going to be. 199 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 3: That's funny that you say you watch it in bits 200 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: and pieces. First, I think I probably did the same thing, 201 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: catching it on TV maybe or something like that, or 202 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 3: turning it off as a kid when I couldn't take it, 203 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 3: And I think that probably fed the power of it 204 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 3: because this is a very sub liminal movie. You get 205 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 3: quick shots of horrifying things, and that's how it works 206 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 3: when you sit down and watch it from start to finish, 207 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: So even watching it in bits, you get a sense 208 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: of that before you're ready for the whole thing. My 209 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 3: recent watching experience, believe it or not, was in an 210 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 3: off season hotel. We were recently in northern Wisconsin on 211 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: vacation and we put it on in a hotel that 212 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 3: thankfully had other guests, but I did think it was 213 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 3: a little too close to home for the subject matter. 214 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 3: Still terrifying stuff. I mean, this is a really frightening movie, 215 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 3: and watching it again, I realized one of the things 216 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 3: that's most impressive about it is that it doesn't really 217 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 3: need suspense to terrify you. That's a little bit what 218 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 3: you were getting at, Adam, in that it's clear from 219 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 3: the beginning this guy's gonna go off his rocker. The 220 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: family is gonna get it in some way. I guess 221 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: there is that suspense that, okay, are the mom and 222 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: kid gonna make it out alive? But Kubrick doesn't really 223 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 3: seem to be all that interested in whether or not 224 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 3: they really make it out alive. He feels the need 225 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: to serve that story, I guess, and I'm sure the 226 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: studio demanded it, but you get a sense that it's 227 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: all gonna go really badly here. 228 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 5: Well, and that's part of the joke. I mean, I mean, 229 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 5: he's got a pitiless sense of humor. He always has. 230 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 5: And and you know, it's not about creating this any 231 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 5: kind of conventional suspense speeds. It's all about, as Adam said, 232 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 5: you know what you get visually out of a film 233 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 5: like that that has all this sort of wide lens 234 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 5: dread in every frame and you don't really know what 235 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 5: these details are even adding up to, But you know 236 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 5: that heavy, as you say, that sort of heavy methodical 237 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 5: back and forth and sort of the simple dialogue scenes 238 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 5: There's always been a lot of deliberate sort of a 239 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 5: half second or second of dead air around every piece 240 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 5: of dialogue in almost every Kubrick film that just makes 241 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 5: you feel like something is amiss, something, And no one 242 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 5: was more amused in the most heartless way by banal 243 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 5: small talk than Kubrick. You know, when you think of 244 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 5: some of the conversations in two thousand and one early on, 245 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 5: or that meeting with Barry Nelson as the hotel owner 246 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 5: where it just or even just shots of Shelley Duvall 247 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 5: and the boy I'm forgetting the bloody like Danny Lloyd. 248 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 5: Of course, mister Danny is sitting in front of the TV, 249 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 5: which is always on at the worst moments, while she's 250 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 5: smoking like it's nineteen eighty, which it is, and smoking 251 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 5: two inches away from him. 252 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 2: My wife commented on that too, It said, hey, it 253 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: was nineteen eighty. 254 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 5: It is like coffee tea or me with the cigarettes there. 255 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 5: I mean, it is very smoking, and Danny is eating 256 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 5: the whitest bread whites. It's like a shade of wonderbread 257 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 5: that's beyond white, right, it's and this is I think, 258 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 5: not to make too much of what's encoded in this film. 259 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: At least we will talk about that with the documentary. 260 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 5: But it's that's what's kind of Yankee Kubrick's chain with 261 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 5: this material. 262 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: It's that it's a way of. 263 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 5: Getting at this family that's already corroded from the inside. 264 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 5: We hear that Nichols, and you know, Jack Torrance's character 265 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 5: in a drunken rage yanked his son's dislocated. 266 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 4: His sons momentary laps, the momentary. 267 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 5: Lapse of extreme violence which we don't see what we 268 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 5: do hear about and in a sort of a weirdly casual. 269 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: Way, there isn't really that much violence. I mean, that's 270 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 3: another traditional horror tool that he sets aside. He doesn't 271 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: rely on the suspense, he doesn't rely on that much violence. 272 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 3: And yet I count this for me personally as probably 273 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 3: the most frightening movie I've seen. It's all about those 274 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: little It's all about those little subliminal shots of things 275 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 3: that don't necessarily even matter for the main narrative at hand. 276 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 4: Like the elements the elevator and also I do elevator. 277 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 3: Things that are just when you look at them in 278 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: the larger span of the story, they're not really necessary. 279 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 3: Yet they are the things that haunt me. And maybe 280 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 3: it's because they aren't necessary, you know, they aren't these 281 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: obvious tools that I'm used to when I'm watching horror films. 282 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: Instead, I get these. 283 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 3: Odd images, the twin even just standing there, that I 284 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 3: can't quite process or fit into the normal horror trajectory, 285 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 3: and so it sets me off a little bit. I 286 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: don't quite know what to do with them. 287 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 5: Let me say two things. First of all, I've stayed 288 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 5: at much worse hotels. Secondly, do you guys both love 289 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 5: this film? 290 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: I do not. 291 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 4: I'd say I'm pretty close. 292 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 3: Mom is a hard word to use for it. I 293 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 3: feel manipulated by it in a way. I admire. Let 294 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: me put it that way. 295 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I kind of love it. 296 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was more intrigued than I remember, because it's 297 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 5: not a film I saw more than once or maybe twice, 298 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 5: back when I was in college. But it does strike 299 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 5: me as awfully minor Kubrick, it does. 300 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: It does. I don't know why. 301 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: I think it's minor in terms that is, what is 302 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 3: he really after here? And maybe that's part of what 303 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: you're getting at, in the sense that here's someone who's 304 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 3: just playing with a horror story that maybe he's not 305 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: all that interested in I do get a sense of that. 306 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 3: Yet at the same time, that doesn't mean he set 307 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 3: his craftsmanship aside. And so all the intricate care that 308 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: is going into those tracking shots with a big wheel 309 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: or even the who are at the beginning, it's all 310 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: to set up the geography of this hotel, and just 311 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 3: to admire the amount of care and attention and how 312 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 3: it pays off later when we are running through that 313 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: hotel too, now this time for our lives, and it's 314 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 3: very insidious because he's given us so many tours of 315 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 3: it with his camera that we think, Okay, we should 316 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: know where to go, we know where is a safe place. 317 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 3: But then they start running and it happens early on 318 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 3: which room two three seven nods too, where Danny is 319 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: on his big wheel downstairs and without explanation, suddenly he's upstairs. Yeah, 320 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 3: And suddenly we become disoriented and we're thrown off because 321 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 3: we should know this place but we don't. He's screwing 322 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: with us again, and that's just impossible not to admire. 323 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: I think, though, there is this larger question that we 324 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: have to ask, which is what is this film about? 325 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: What do we take away from this film beyond maybe 326 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: just being scared by it or reflecting on and really 327 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: admiring the craftsmanship. But one of the things that struck 328 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: me this time that I certainly didn't notice when I 329 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: saw it originally back in college for the first time 330 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: in its entirety, was that this really is a film 331 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: about repression. There is this psychological terror I think Kubrick 332 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: is exploring that can come from someone repressing themselves, from 333 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 2: stifling their natural urges and desires. It actually made me 334 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: think recently of our discussion of The Master, the Paul 335 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: Thomas Anderson film. I see a little bit of that 336 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: same kind of broken quality to Jack Torrance as I 337 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: do in Freddie Quell. Someone who's kind of haunted by 338 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: his inability to be the man slash husband slash father 339 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: he wants to be, or thinks he should be, or 340 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: think society expects him to be. And so you think 341 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: about the ways Jack Torrance is repressing himself. We know 342 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: he can't drink anymore, and later he can't wait to 343 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: get a drink. He says, I think he'd give his 344 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: soul to have one drink. He's a writer, but he's blocked. 345 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: He can't say what he wants to say, he can't 346 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: get that out there. And his relationship with his wife, 347 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: of course, is interesting too, because they don't seem to 348 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: be that affectionate, they don't seem to be physical in 349 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: any way with each other. And when Ulman is showing 350 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: them around early on, when they're getting the tour originally, 351 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: I love this little throwaway moment where two block blond women, 352 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: attractive blonde women are checking out and they go by 353 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: and they say goodbye to him, and of course Jack's 354 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 2: the last guy to go, and he has to look 355 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: back at it to watch him go. I mean, he 356 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: notices the blonde women, and of course he notices the 357 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: naked blonde woman in room two three seven, which seems 358 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 2: to be this room where maybe you get to explore 359 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 2: those desires, you get to finally let it all out, 360 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: whatever you're feeling. And I think that the key part 361 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 2: for me is that conversation with Grady, who is the 362 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 2: waiter I think in the gold room and the actor 363 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: I had to write his name down, Philip Stone. I 364 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: think he's so good, he is so fun to watch, 365 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: just really relishing every single line. But when he talks 366 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: to him later in the film, when Jack is trapped. 367 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: The phrases he uses are really telling. He talks about 368 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: how Jack is failing to take care of the problem, failing. 369 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 2: She seems to have gotten the better of you. She 370 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: needs a good talking to. It's this constant suggestion that 371 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 2: he has to assert himself over her, and he even 372 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 2: says at one point, you don't have to rub it in. 373 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: So I feel like Jack is this character who feels stifled. 374 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: He feels like she's largely holding him back, and that's 375 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: why he really can't abide her then holding his one 376 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: his one mistake, his one eruption of violence against him, 377 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 2: the way he perceives that she does, and that misunderstanding. 378 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: Remember when she says you did this to him, she 379 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: thinks that he put his hands on him and choked him. 380 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: That's really what starts the slide where all the violence 381 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: in this film comes from. 382 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 3: I think that's all there, and maybe this is what 383 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: you're getting at, Michael. I think it's there on the surface, 384 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 3: but for whatever reason, I don't really feel that the 385 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 3: movie cares that much about it or is that invested 386 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 3: in it. It's there narratively and to add a little 387 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: bit of context, but I don't know that we can 388 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 3: truly say that's what the movie is about. To me, 389 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: the movie is about its own technique, and I don't 390 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: know if you're looking for doesn't I think it might 391 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: be a pretty shallow movie. 392 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 4: I didn't feel that way done movie. 393 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 3: But possibly a shallow one. And I'm not saying that 394 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 3: makes it bad, but that's maybe part of my distance 395 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 3: from it. And I don't know if that's where your 396 00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 3: level of. 397 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 5: Engagement this time through. I thought, okay, what would make this? 398 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 5: And I do I was kind of semi entranced by 399 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 5: a lot of the thing visually, and that's nothing new 400 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 5: for Kubrick, but there's something about the match of that 401 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 5: director's meticulously obsessively controlled a visual approach when you match 402 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 5: that up with an actor as kind of methodically crazy 403 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 5: as Nicholson. I mean, there's not a lot of surprise 404 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 5: in the Nicholson performance, and I find that anytime Nicholson, 405 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 5: even more recently, and something is very different is about 406 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 5: Schmid when he might more profitably play normalcy or sort 407 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 5: of a neutrality and then kind of give you the 408 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 5: intimations of the ripples of sort of you know what's 409 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 5: going on behind the facade or whatever. He can't convey 410 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 5: that because he doesn't have a lot of that in him. 411 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 5: I mean, somebody I forget who was. Stephen King suggested, well, 412 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 5: it should have been John Voight, you know, like nineteen 413 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 5: eighty era John Voyd, somebody who can kind of start 414 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 5: here and then go there. But you know, once he 415 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 5: got Nicholson in and certainly didn't hurt. You know, the 416 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 5: film was not a big success at the box office, 417 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 5: but it's grown in the reputation, like most of kubrick 418 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 5: stuff has grown with the passing years. Whatever one thinks 419 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 5: of it, it's once you get Nicholson in there, he 420 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 5: responded to Hubrick responded to the more operatic approach, and 421 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 5: I just don't know if the film to me is 422 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 5: fantastic in those flourishes you mentioned, Josh, just in that 423 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 5: image that it comes back to a lot, and I never, 424 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 5: without getting lazy, that image of the blood, you know, 425 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 5: sort of seeping through these closed elevator doors and then gushing, 426 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 5: you know, with the gallons and gallons. There's only I 427 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 5: learned in the making of film that his daughter, Kubrick's 428 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 5: daughter made the documentary, that there's really only one actual 429 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 5: special effects shot in that film where Nicholson is looking 430 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 5: at the model of the maid and then you see 431 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 5: two tiny character yeah, and that that was actually you know, 432 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 5: two stand ins, real actors shot from a great height 433 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 5: in kind of a recreation of the Amazon, and then 434 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 5: that super imposing that was madded in, and that that 435 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 5: is a genuinely mysterious moment to really think, Okay, what's 436 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 5: going on? 437 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Can he really see them? Is he imagining? 438 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 4: It's like he's the lord of this sea? 439 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: I know, but it's not. You don't get a literal explanation. 440 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: And that's what Kirbric is living for. 441 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 4: He lives for that right. 442 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 3: I'll say this about Nicholson's performance, It's probably the least 443 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 3: frightening element to me in the movie. I enjoy it 444 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 3: in terms of its comedy, really not bad comedy, but 445 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: just it gets you laughing, and in that way it 446 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 3: maybe releases some tension. But if there was a way 447 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 3: for the shining to be scarier, it might be with 448 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 3: a different lead actor, because then that whole attack the 449 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 3: family sequence, which to me, I start to feel like 450 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 3: I've seen this, you know what, I've seen variations on this. Again, 451 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: not saying that it's bad or doesn't entirely work, but 452 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 3: I wonder if the shining would have been scarier with 453 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 3: someone like John Voyd in the lead that took a 454 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: different task. 455 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 5: This is what cubric makes you, even if you feel 456 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 5: a little not dismissive, but more like, Okay, it's a 457 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 5: minor work in my view, but even so many of 458 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 5: his films provoke enormous objections, and you can kind of 459 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 5: have objections to your own objections. Like in other words, 460 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 5: Barry Linden is a film that I feel like, like anything, 461 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 5: as I say Anything Posts two thousand and one, I'm 462 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 5: not even sure where I stand on all these movies anymore. 463 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 5: Barry Linden I did see two or three times when 464 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 5: it came out. I was sort of just knocked out 465 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 5: by it as a period piece. But at the same 466 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 5: time I thought, Okay, any actor in the world would 467 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 5: be better than Ryan O'Neil. And I still believe that 468 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 5: that was purely for box office insurance, and he can 469 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 5: barely get by, I think in that picture. And it's 470 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 5: too bad that that film didn't have and essentially more 471 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 5: of an Albert Finny level a craftsman in there. 472 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 4: I guess I don't want to dwell on Nicholson too 473 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 4: much more. 474 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 2: I think we've covered it, but I do disagree because 475 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 2: I think it fits in with how I'm reading the 476 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: film in terms of this movie and the narrative being 477 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: one that is preordained and a lot of the dread 478 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 2: coming from not just that you know where it's going, 479 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 2: but with him being so big and so clearly capable 480 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: of violence, it then does become this interesting operatic question of, Okay, 481 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: how big is the carnage going to be? How much 482 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: damage is he really going to do? I agree that 483 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: it would be interesting to see someone like John Voight, 484 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: someone more subtle, go on more of a progression to 485 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: that point, but I think it works just as well, 486 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: or maybe is even more scary because it is so operatic, 487 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 2: And just to close one small thing I was saying 488 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: about his character and this kind of loser character that 489 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 2: he seems to be responding to that line about all 490 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: work and no play that she reads on the typewriter. 491 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 2: If you think about it, though we've always kind of 492 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 2: just joked about it, it's become a cliche. We know 493 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 2: it's this nursery rhyme kind of line, but it does 494 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: work in the grand scheme of this film, where he's 495 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 2: saying all work and no play makes him a dull boy. 496 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 2: This idea that he has to be just a father 497 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 2: who has to collect a paycheck, who doesn't get to 498 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: do the fun things that he wants to do. It 499 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 2: is an expression of him being stifled in some way. 500 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 2: So again I'm on board with Nicholson, but I do 501 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: want to ask you guys about any of the aspects 502 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: after probably viewing Room two three seven, as you watch 503 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: the Shining, did you think about some of those things 504 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: where you really focused in on some minor detail and 505 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: maybe obsessed over it or tried to make too much 506 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: of it. 507 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 3: It was hard not to, but I really tried to 508 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 3: avoid that, actually, because I didn't want to be caught 509 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 3: in that place where the people who are profiled and 510 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 3: that documentary are they're trapped by their theories and we'll get. 511 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 4: To that film. Yeah, So yeah, I tried to avoid that. 512 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: Well, there were three things that jumped out for me, 513 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: and the first one is really really minor. I just 514 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: thought it was kind of a funny joke where he's 515 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: in the office with Olman and he says, well, I've 516 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 2: got a writing project that I'm working on, And of 517 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: course you think, well, I really hope he knows where 518 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: he's going with this writing project, because he's going to 519 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 2: be there for five months. So if you're a writer, 520 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 2: writing's already hard enough, but if you know where you're going, 521 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 2: you have a basic roadmap that could be very productive. 522 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 2: He doesn't have a clue what he's doing. And I 523 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 2: love the fact that he says he's got this writing project, 524 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: and then what we learned is he didn't have a story. 525 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,719 Speaker 2: And Olmen says, well, I've got this little story for you, 526 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: and it's the story about the gradies what went wrong there? 527 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: And you almost have to think, if only Torn's been 528 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: smart enough to go, well, that's an interesting story, why 529 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: don't I write about that? I've just written it lived 530 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 2: in Yeah, exactly, then he'd have something. But I love 531 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 2: the fact you mentioned Michael Danny eating the Wonderbread, Shelley 532 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: Duval smoking as they're watching TV. They're eating lunch there 533 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,479 Speaker 2: in that opening sequence, the first time we meet Danny 534 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: and Wendy. Do you remember what else Wendy is doing 535 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 2: in that scene As she's smoking a cigarette and talking 536 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 2: to Dan, she's. 537 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: Wearing her watch over the red. 538 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 4: Pull over, which she looks looks interesting. 539 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: Psychotic right there, but what is it? 540 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 2: What I noticed was she's reading a book. She's reading 541 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 2: a book and it happens to be Catcher in the Rye. 542 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 2: And I just love the fact that she's married to 543 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 2: a writer or an aspiring writer, and she's a reader. 544 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: She's clearly a reader because what we also are oppressive 545 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: and what we also see in the shot is behind 546 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 2: Danny is a bookshelf full of books. Keeping with my 547 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 2: theory about this pressure on him to be this certain 548 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: kind of husband or man. She's a reader and he's 549 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: a writer. And it also works nicely that it's Catcher 550 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 2: in the Rye written by a recluse, a guy who 551 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 2: basically shut himself in. 552 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 4: Right. You have to wonder if. 553 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: You're like the sixth guy that I know he really 554 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: should have. 555 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 4: Here's my last one though, and you can keep going. 556 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 2: You can totally scoff at this one, but think about 557 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: why does Kubrick spend so much time showing Scatman Cruthers, 558 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: Dick Kaler and the chef show Wendy all the food 559 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: in the freezer. He spends like five minutes going through 560 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 2: the number of ribbis, all the different types of meat 561 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 2: that are in the freezer, and I watch it and 562 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 2: I was thinking, I think a lot of people wonder 563 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: this as you watch the shining. What is all that 564 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: blood in the elevator? What is this supposed to symbolize 565 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 2: in some way? And I'm thinking about all the animals 566 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 2: that must have been slaughtered. 567 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 4: Right, just. 568 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: What you're saying, not necessarily, but I wonder if there 569 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 2: is a little bit of visual playfulness going on, or 570 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 2: textual playfulness on Cubuck's part to suggest that think about 571 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: the number of animals. 572 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 4: Forget the Indians. 573 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: That they they've clearly the people who built that territory slaughtered, 574 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 2: but then the people they've dug up the bones to 575 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: build the hotel on that burial ground. But then we've 576 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 2: got the animals as well. The sheer quantity of animals 577 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 2: that have to be slaughtered to keep that place running. 578 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 4: That's the blood eye it. 579 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 5: I just assumed it was some of those early New 580 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 5: Year's Eve parties in the twenties that got a little 581 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 5: lot of hands. 582 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 2: Maybe so guy with the rabbit suit we see later? Yeah, 583 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 2: what about then, any major aspects of the film. We've 584 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: covered a few of them. But what about things that 585 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 2: maybe clearly didn't work for you? Beyond Nicholson's performance, were 586 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 2: there aspects of the film that didn't. 587 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 5: I think a lot of it is hooked up for 588 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 5: me with nick questions about the casting of Nicholson and 589 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 5: devolve frankly, although right these days, of course, whatever one 590 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 5: thinks of that movie, their faces in extremists were either 591 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 5: reacting to or causing some horrifying moment of the you 592 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 5: know is it's part and parcel of the movie's image, 593 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 5: and it's why we we kind of rolls around in 594 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 5: our heads even if we don't really know what we 595 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 5: of it. I guess I find Kubrick's not I wouldn't 596 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 5: say sending up the. 597 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: Material, but he it comes close, he looks. 598 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 5: He's not interested in you know? But what is Eyes 599 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 5: Wide Shot? What is is that a conventional you know, 600 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 5: hinerance to any certainly now I got a huge issue 601 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 5: with Eyes Wide Shot that I'm eager to revisit in 602 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 5: a few years when I see it again, or maybe sooner. 603 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 5: In that I think that story not necessarily with those actors, 604 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 5: but that story came from a different period. I think 605 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 5: it would have made more sense than a different I 606 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 5: don't know. I just always had these enormous questions with 607 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 5: Kubrick in the later stuff about either casting or some decision. 608 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: But at the. 609 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 5: Same time you have to admire how how damn far 610 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 5: he went with every single choice, often in you know, 611 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 5: the direction he always went. But I mean, when you 612 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 5: look at the visual quality of the Shining and you 613 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 5: have to go straight back to the trenches and pass 614 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 5: the glorium. 615 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: He was doing amazing. 616 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 5: Things in nineteen fifty seven with the camera. Never a 617 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 5: subtle filmmaker in many ways, not a subtle He didn't 618 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 5: view humanity or humans in extremists under attack in any 619 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 5: particularly subtle way. But he somehow turned these simple parables 620 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 5: of good and evil into the stuff of if not 621 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 5: necessarily numbers, but it's stuff of the kind of. 622 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: Very unsettling dreams. And that's why he's still the filmmakers. 623 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. 624 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 3: I don't have any major criticisms for the Shining, but 625 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 3: with your interpretive skills we've seen on display here, I 626 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 3: do want you to explore why do we get so 627 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 3: much of Dick hallerin traveling. One of my notes, we 628 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 3: get him in Miami on the plane, we get him 629 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: in the car. I'm surprised if there were computers around 630 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 3: we would have gotten him placing his order on experience 631 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 3: for his. 632 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: Playing tak You're so right. It's one of my notes. 633 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: That's one of the things I didn't understand about the movie. 634 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 4: It's absurd, it's just misdirection. 635 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: It doesn't really detract from the film. But you're right, 636 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 2: it's interesting that they show so. And you wonder me 637 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: if he is trying to make Maybe he's trying to 638 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: make a sort of ironic joke out of it, because 639 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: how much time does he devote to seeing scatman Crothers 640 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 2: get to the overlook and then once he gets there, 641 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 2: he's killed in thirty seconds. It clearly seems to be 642 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 2: a joke on his part. But you're right, I don't 643 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: know why we had to spend that much time with him. 644 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: The two things for me, and I'll just quote you 645 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 2: directly from my notes as I watched the film, WTF 646 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: the Dog the Dog? Do you remember the sequence when 647 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: Wendy's losing her mind and she finally sees the blood 648 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 2: come out of the elevators. Is at the end of 649 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 2: the film, Danny's being chased by Jack through the maze. 650 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 4: She's looking for them. 651 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 2: In the overlook and she goes upstairs and there's a 652 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: sequence where a character in a dog out for. 653 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: About outfit. 654 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 2: I think it's a dog because I did some Google 655 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 2: searching today to be like, there must be something on this. 656 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: Apparently it's in the book, and it was something Kubrick 657 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: shot but otherwise didn't explain it at all, except for 658 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 2: that one shot where we see a dog seemingly performing 659 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 2: a sex act on a man, and that's one of 660 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 2: those talking about Yeah, but that's one of those things 661 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: that completely doesn't fit in with anything else we see 662 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: in the movie. And I think that whole sequence with 663 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 2: Wendy doesn't really work where things we see the cobwebs. 664 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: It kind of becomes a little bit too conventionally horror 665 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 2: movie there. 666 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 5: It's weird because a lot of it almost seems David lynchian, 667 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 5: and he was by by then Lynch had made a 668 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 5: racer Head, and you know, I think The Elephant Man 669 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 5: came out that same year, and and but but Cubrick's 670 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 5: kind of the kind of rhythm he favors as a filmmaker, 671 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 5: and and the kind of anal attention to a certain 672 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 5: pacing and this methodical vibe. He's always kind of sort 673 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 5: of like, you know, playing out. It's the opposite of 674 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 5: the kind of really free floating dream imagery that Lynch 675 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 5: is into. So when you when you get a moment 676 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 5: like that and the shining, you have this sort of 677 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 5: you know of all kind of coming upon this salacious 678 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 5: sexual act going on it. It doesn't seem to be 679 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 5: coming out of any kind of like subconscious or dream moments. No, 680 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 5: you're right, it's a laid out with this kind of 681 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 5: ridiculously heavy hand and a very matter of fact you're right, 682 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 5: And at the same time it's all part and parcel 683 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 5: of Kubrick just as a filmmaker. And I know, I 684 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 5: don't know. I mean, I mean, I don't know. Where 685 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 5: do you I want to ask this though, Where do 686 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 5: you put it in relation to the films? It's nearest 687 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 5: on the timeline, we have Barry Lindon and we have 688 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 5: a full metal jacket on the inicide. 689 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: But where does that go for you? 690 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 3: Well, I've never seen Barry Linden, so I can't put 691 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 3: it overall. 692 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: And Kubrick's I'm sorry, I'm leaving. 693 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 4: I would say you should, I don't. 694 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: I mean, I would put it at the top, but 695 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 3: for different reasons, and the films that I value more 696 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 3: like two thousand and one would be way above it. 697 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 3: That makes any sense, I don't know. 698 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 2: Get back to me in bonus content. I'll have thought 699 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 2: about it a little bit more in terms of where 700 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: I rank this. I do want to mention one last 701 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 2: thing though, that I'm curious how you guys responded to, 702 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: which is something that I don't even know if I'm 703 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 2: saying it as a criticism. It's more just an open 704 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 2: question I have about the film, which is I don't 705 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 2: know how I feel about the fact that a major 706 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 2: aspect of the plot revolves around Grady, a character who 707 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: clearly doesn't quote unquote really exist, letting Jack out of 708 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 2: the storage room in the basement of the Overlook Hotel. 709 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 2: Because if you think about how the film is set up, 710 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: obviously you have to buy in a little bit too 711 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 2: supernatural things going on. Clearly Danny has the shining and 712 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 2: Scatman Cruthers has this ability to shine. 713 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 4: You buy that. 714 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: You also can buy very easily that everything that is 715 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 2: going on in Jack's head is going on in his head. 716 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: He's walking around the hotel he thinks he's meeting these characters, 717 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: but they're not quote unquote really there. 718 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: Well, well, is all that cut and dry. 719 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 2: No, I don't think it is. But I think you 720 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 2: can go with it if you want to just suspend 721 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 2: disbelief so far. You can say, Okay, I get that 722 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 2: certain characters have supernatural abilities. I get that this place 723 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: is haunted. 724 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 3: Bruce, Danny and Room two three seven. 725 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: Well, exactly, you're right. So that's one of the things 726 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: that comes up, and the other one would be him 727 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 2: getting let out. Is just it takes it to a 728 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: plane where a film that's already clearly bizarre and out 729 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: there and supernatural, it takes it to another level where 730 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: then these ghosts in this house it's not just haunted, 731 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: or it's not just a place that that praise on 732 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: your fragile mind. It can actually cause physical things to 733 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 2: happen in the real world, like a ghostly character opening. 734 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, it's. 735 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 2: Just not completely in keeping maybe with the rest of 736 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 2: the film. 737 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: It was Adam, why are you so little reminded? 738 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 4: I don't understand what It's a curse. 739 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 2: It's part of my fragile mind, unfortunately, Michael, Mom, Yeah, 740 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 2: they really will go at Hotel for the Vader. Sure 741 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: I do. It'll be a lot of fun. 742 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess so. 743 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 2: Good timing too, as we recently talked about Jack Nicholson 744 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 2: and shared our top five Jack Nicholson scenes. We hope 745 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 2: you enjoyed that dip into the film Spotting Archive. A 746 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 2: reminder that archive access is just one of the many 747 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 2: benefits you get by being a film Spotting Family member, 748 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 2: and you can learn more at film spotting family dot com. 749 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. 750 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. 751 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 3: The fine. 752 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: Film spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family 753 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 2: at film spotting Family dot com and get access to 754 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 2: ad free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, 755 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 2: for the first time, all into one place, the entire 756 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 2: film Spotting archive going back to two thousand and five. 757 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 2: That's a film Spotting Family dot com 758 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 3: Panicly