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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Man, welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norrie with

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Speaker 2: you along with James Fox's latest film was a moment

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Speaker 2: of contact. James. We've lost over the years, some great eufologists,

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Speaker 2: Bud Hopkins, Stanton Friedman, Jim Bars, just to name a few.

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Speaker 2: What has that done to the field of ufology.

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Speaker 3: It's so funny you should say that because I was

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Speaker 3: literally just looking at a photograph of myself with Stanton Friedman. Gosh,

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Speaker 3: probably twenty ten, two thousand and eleven eleven, got invited

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Speaker 3: to a conference in Brazil. It was my first trip

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Speaker 3: ever to Brazil, and I had a number of people

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Speaker 3: for about a decade prior that were pushed actually more

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Speaker 3: than that, probably fifteen years, that were pushing me to

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Speaker 3: investigate the infant now infamous Virginia UFO crash incident, which

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Speaker 3: took place in nineteen ninety six in Virginia, Brazil, on

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Speaker 3: January twentieth, that in the month of January. And I

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Speaker 3: remember just you know, having the same feeling about this

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Speaker 3: case that it can't be therefore it isn't and I

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Speaker 3: just I just refused to look into it because I

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Speaker 3: thought if a UFO did crash and live entities were

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Speaker 3: seen in broad daylight in the town of Brazil, Virginia, Brazil,

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Speaker 3: the whole world would have to know about it. And

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Speaker 3: I was in Brazil in a place called Pedro Weebe

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Speaker 3: right on the coast to the south of South Fallow

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Speaker 3: and uh. I remember Stanton and I sitting on a

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Speaker 3: little outdoor table. It's one of those restaurants that sort

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Speaker 3: of spills out of the sidewalking into the street, and

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Speaker 3: there were these cars kind of showboating, driving back and

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Speaker 3: forth with loud music on with deep bass and really

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Speaker 3: just you know, the boo, and Stanton looks over at me.

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Speaker 3: He says, well that that frequency doesn't resonate well with me.

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Speaker 3: I always remember that comment. But then the topic of

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Speaker 3: argenia popped up and I was very dismissive, and Stanton said, well,

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Speaker 3: hold on, James, you know, just suspend judgment for a moment.

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Speaker 3: This case could turn out to be the roswell of Brazil.

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Speaker 3: And he was very influential in my decision making to actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, start to look into it. And I wish,

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Speaker 3: like heck, he was alive today to see the progress

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Speaker 3: that we've made on this crash retrieval case.

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Speaker 2: He was one of a kind. He was one of

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Speaker 2: my first radio interviews when I was a youngster in Detroit.

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Speaker 2: He had been speaking at universities and he was coming

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Speaker 2: to Oakland College in Michigan and I asked my news director.

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Speaker 2: I was a young reporter at the time. I said,

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Speaker 2: I got to cover this guy. It's great. He said,

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Speaker 2: it's nighttime. I'm not paying the overtime for it. You

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Speaker 2: want to do it, do it on your own. And

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Speaker 2: I did. I went out there and interviewed Stanton Friedman,

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Speaker 2: came back and edited the tape and did a nice

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Speaker 2: little piece on it. We've got some good reaction to it.

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Speaker 2: And I never forgot the guy, James, I never.

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Speaker 3: Forgot the guy. You know. One thing I'll tell you

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Speaker 3: about Stanton is give an example of how thorough he

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Speaker 3: was when he was investigating things and preparing for debates.

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Speaker 3: He called me one time a few years back and

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Speaker 3: he goes, hey, James, he goes, do you debate the

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Speaker 3: Michael Shermer on Larry King Now Show. I said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: he goes, can you get me a copy of that?

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Speaker 3: Do you know where that is. I said, sure, what's

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Speaker 3: going on? He said, well, I'm gonna debate Michael Shermer

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Speaker 3: and I just want to watch everything he's ever done

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Speaker 3: in terms of you know, the UFO UAP issue. And

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Speaker 3: I said, oh wow, that's that's incredible. You're going to

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Speaker 3: do that rather thorough deep dive into you know, this

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Speaker 3: guy's you know, interaction with the various debates that he's had.

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Speaker 3: And he goes, and I was thinking it was going

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Speaker 3: to be like, oh, yeah, I'm going to debate him

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Speaker 3: next week. I said, well, when you're going to debate him?

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Speaker 3: He goes, oh, it's about a year from now. I said,

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Speaker 3: you're preparing for a debate that you're going to do

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Speaker 3: in a year. He's like, oh yeah, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: watch everything he's ever done, and I'm going to have

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Speaker 3: a counter argument to everything that he's ever said in

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Speaker 3: terms of debugging. And I thought, well, that's what made

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Speaker 3: him so great is his level of dedication. He stuck

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Speaker 3: to the data, he did his research, and he was

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Speaker 3: one of a kind.

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Speaker 2: When he died in May of twenty nineteen, this is

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Speaker 2: ironic to James. He was a guest of mine at

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Speaker 2: my live stage show on Columbus, Ohio. So technically he

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Speaker 2: was my first radio interview of my career, and I

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Speaker 2: was the last interviewer when he died.

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Speaker 3: I'm weird, that's crazy, you know. He said to me

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Speaker 3: that he was going to retire, and I thought, gosh,

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Speaker 3: you know, you love what you do. Why are you

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Speaker 3: going to retire? You know? And he goes, James, I

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Speaker 3: can't do it. I live in it. I live in Canada,

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Speaker 3: and there's no direct flights. I'm always having to run

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Speaker 3: in the airport to get my connecting flights. I can't

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Speaker 3: do it anymore. And I gotta, I gotta, I gotta,

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Speaker 3: I gotta stop. I gotta retire, you know. And and

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Speaker 3: then when I found out how he died running in

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Speaker 3: the airport trying to make connecting flight is my understanding

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Speaker 3: of it. You probably know better than I do. But

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Speaker 3: I remember thinking to that conversation that we had had

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Speaker 3: that he just could no longer do that. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's he's sorely missed. I think of him all the time.

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Speaker 3: I have a photograph of him and me and Pedroibe

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Speaker 3: Brazil hanging proudly on my wall in my office behind me. Actually, yeah, so,

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Speaker 3: and there's other great people. I mean, look at doctor Heinek.

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Speaker 3: He's one of the reasons why I'm doing what I

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Speaker 3: do today. I was very, very moved by him, Edgar Mitchell, Keyho,

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Speaker 3: Donald Keyhoe, James McDonald. These guys were superstars of their time,

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Speaker 3: you know, and highly influential and where we are today, and.

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Speaker 4: I know you're gonna want some them after hearing this.

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Speaker 4: This is an amazing story.

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Speaker 5: We've got even and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.

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Speaker 4: I understand that Malachi, who is eight almost nine years

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Speaker 4: old now, was suffering with not just one or two warts,

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Speaker 4: but I mean a significant outbreak of warts all over

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Speaker 4: his body, so significant it impacted his ability to really function.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil. To

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Speaker 5: right was Tie's book. Actually that got me thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 5: It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can

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Speaker 5: see that it would work.

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Speaker 4: And so at what point did you see that there

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Speaker 4: was actually improvement it's really going to work.

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Speaker 5: Well, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.

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Speaker 5: You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller

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Speaker 5: and then going down to with just little red monks.

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Speaker 5: The whole things are gone and we're talking about what's

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Speaker 5: you know, one the size of the wanner.

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Speaker 1: I thought, no.

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Speaker 5: Way, that's gonna wow. That's just been miraculous to see

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Speaker 5: him get into a pair of shoes.

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Speaker 4: Yes, how wonderful. It's great to see him so happy

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Speaker 4: and yeah, absolutely wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.

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Speaker 4: TI, this is awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is awesome.

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Speaker 6: Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them

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Speaker 6: to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now call

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Speaker 6: one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.

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Speaker 6: That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven

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Speaker 6: thirty five, or visit carnivora dot com c A r

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Speaker 6: niv O r A carnivora dot com.

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Speaker 2: I think when one begins to wonder about the wonders

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Speaker 2: of the universe, how it was created, why it was created,

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Speaker 2: that you have to assume that there's extra life out

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Speaker 2: there all over the place. Because we can't be alone.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I don't think any statistician will tell you

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Speaker 3: we're alone. The question is what are we seeing in

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Speaker 3: our skys here? Who are they? Where? Do they come from?

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Speaker 3: What do they want? Origins and intent? Right, And there's

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Speaker 3: just like I remind people about this too, because you know,

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Speaker 3: when you start talking about close encounters of the third kind,

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Speaker 3: you know, it gets people kind of, you know, this

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Speaker 3: sort of incredulous look on their face. Said, well, let

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Speaker 3: me just tell you a lot of these reports came

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Speaker 3: directly out of Project Blue Book files and doctor j.

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Speaker 3: Led Heinik, who investigated you know, UFOs in an official

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Speaker 3: capacity as scientific advisor, he coined the phrase first and

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Speaker 3: close encounter of the first, second, and third kind, and

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Speaker 3: those reports come, some of them come directly out of

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Speaker 3: so the Air Force is known they're dealing with entities

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Speaker 3: directly related to the craft since the fifties and obviously

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Speaker 3: before that, so it's nothing new.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that doctor Heineck's son Paul has picked up

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Speaker 2: the gauntlet and this coming to conferences and speaking.

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Speaker 3: You know, I had a great meeting with him several

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Speaker 3: years back because I had gone to the National Archives

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Speaker 3: with a guy named Ray Stanford who wrote the book

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Speaker 3: on one of my favorite cases. It's called Secoro's Saucer

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Speaker 3: and a Pentagon Pantry. Of course, the object that Secoro

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Speaker 3: wasn't shaped like a saw, but it just had a

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Speaker 3: nice ring to it. But so Ray and I were

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Speaker 3: hanging out. I spent five days with him on the

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Speaker 3: East Coast and I said, well, gosh, you know, Ray,

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Speaker 3: we should we should go to the National Archives and

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Speaker 3: see what we can dig up on the on the

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Speaker 3: Secoro case. And he's like, ah, you know, he's all

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Speaker 3: disgruntled and now there's no we're not going to find

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Speaker 3: anything new. And I said, well, gosh, you know, standing

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Speaker 3: with that attitude, we're not going to Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 3: well I'm going to go, and you know, I'm I'm

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Speaker 3: going to see what I can come up with. And

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Speaker 3: he reluctantly came with me, but he took his own car,

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Speaker 3: so he drove to the National Archives, and to my astonishment,

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Speaker 3: we end up getting the original files from Project Blue

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Speaker 3: Book surrounding that case during that time of nineteen in

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Speaker 3: the early nineteen sixties had other cases too, but we

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Speaker 3: got the original files and we came upon a document

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Speaker 3: that had doctor Jalen Heinek's own handwriting about this the

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Speaker 3: symbol that was on So there's been a lot of

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Speaker 3: controversy on this symbol that was on side of the

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Speaker 3: egg shaped craft that Lonnie Zimora had seen back in

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty four. And you know, they said that the

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Speaker 3: military deliberately obfuscated the symbol and wrote something that was different,

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Speaker 3: and it had been a point of contention with researchers,

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Speaker 3: and we found the original document and it was just

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Speaker 3: it was like the highlight of fifty years for this

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Speaker 3: researcher on the case, because he'd been saying forever, this

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Speaker 3: is not the real insignia. The real insignia was different.

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Speaker 3: And I found that document and I shared it with

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Speaker 3: Paul Heinek, not that long ago, as your father's own

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Speaker 3: handwriting is his notes on the case. And this is

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Speaker 3: the symbol that was on side of the real symbol

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Speaker 3: that was on the side of the craft that was

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Speaker 3: seen in April of nineteen sixty four by Lannie Zimora.

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Speaker 3: It was a real bonding moment between him and myself.

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Speaker 2: And ironically it was de Lannie Zamora case that slipped

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Speaker 2: doctor j. Allen Heidek's views of UFOs and extra terrestrials yep.

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Speaker 3: And I got to know Lonnie's wife Mary, his daughter Diane,

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Speaker 3: his son Michael, his coworkers, and one of the aspects

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Speaker 3: of the case that the Air Force desperately tried to

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Speaker 3: get him not to talk about were the beans, right,

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Speaker 3: Because it's one thing when you've got an unknown object

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Speaker 3: whizzing around in the sky, but when you've got a

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Speaker 3: landed craft and occupants, you know, walking around walking around,

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Speaker 3: that's a very very different story, right. So that was

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Speaker 3: one of the things that the daughter has specifically told

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Speaker 3: me that the Air Force said, don't ever talk about

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Speaker 3: that aspect of the sighting because that's going to be

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Speaker 3: really difficult for us to explain away as weather phenomenon

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Speaker 3: or ball lightning or swamp gas or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Right when I first heard the story, James, I thought

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Speaker 2: maybe it was a lunar module test and that what

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Speaker 2: he saw were our astronauts walking next to the module.

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Speaker 2: What did you think of that?

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Speaker 3: So Yolanie got within thirty five feet of that craft.

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Speaker 3: I've actually been at the site multiple times, and his

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Speaker 3: first sighting when the occupants were out standing outside, it

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Speaker 3: was further away, and that's when the occupants were standing

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Speaker 3: and he actually locked eyes with one of the occupants

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Speaker 3: and he said they were small, almost like children, and

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Speaker 3: had these tight fitting white suits on and he locked

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Speaker 3: eyes with one of them. He was trying to communicate

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Speaker 3: with them out the car window, and he was like,

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Speaker 3: you know you okay, because he was thinking, is this

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Speaker 3: a turned over car? Is this children in a crash?

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Speaker 3: Like his brain was trying to process what he was

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Speaker 3: looking at. And when he drove further around to get

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Speaker 3: closer to the actual landing spot, the occupants had gotten

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Speaker 3: back in. But he got within thirty five feet of

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Speaker 3: an egg shaped craft with that symbol on the side

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Speaker 3: of it, and it took off, and it was funny

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Speaker 3: because it made initially some sound, and it had a

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Speaker 3: blue flame, and the blue flame not like a rocket flame.

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Speaker 3: The rocket flame would have stirred up all the dust

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Speaker 3: and rocks and sand and debris on the desert floor.

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Speaker 3: This didn't do that. This blue flame penetrated like a

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Speaker 3: knife through soft butter into the ground, and it melted rocks,

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Speaker 3: and it left traces on plants and various things that

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Speaker 3: it affected, turned some parts of the desert to glass.

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Speaker 3: And so he got a really good look at that

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Speaker 3: case that was absolutely nothing to do with the lunar lander,

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Speaker 3: and the Air Force desperately tried. They would have loved

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Speaker 3: to have explained it away as the Lunar Lander, but

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Speaker 3: they were incapable of doing that, and it remains to

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Speaker 3: this day as an unknown in Project Bluewick files.

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Speaker 2: Why don't we get any more reports that we used

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Speaker 2: to do of landing pod marks, scorched areas and things

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's a good question. There was a case

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Speaker 3: not that long ago that took place in Las Vegas, Nevada,

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Speaker 3: that seemed initially quite promising. It wasn't that long ago,

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Speaker 3: it was a few years ago, and they talked about

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Speaker 3: an object that had crashed to the ground and these

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Speaker 3: large entities. I don't know if you heard about that.

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Speaker 2: Was in their backyard or something like that.

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Speaker 3: Right exactly. And I was quite excited initially, but excuse me.

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Speaker 3: I talked to George Knapp and he was trying to

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Speaker 3: arrange an interview and they were being very evasive, the witnesses,

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Speaker 3: And George said, you know, I don't know about the

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Speaker 3: credibility of these witnesses because you know, they're they're unwilling

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Speaker 3: to meet with me to give statements. They've you know,

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Speaker 3: made arrangements for me to meet. I've shown up, they

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Speaker 3: didn't answer the door. So but that's a good question.

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Speaker 3: That's a good question. Maybe I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 3: have an answer to that. There there have been some

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Speaker 3: good reports of close encounters of the third kind. One

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Speaker 3: in particular, I think took place in the North Carolina

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Speaker 3: maybe ten years ago or so, a father and his son.

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Speaker 3: Did you hear about that one location? Yeah, So there

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Speaker 3: have been sporadic reports of that, but I generally like

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Speaker 3: to focus on some of the older cases because you know,

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Speaker 3: there's less likelihood of I mean, you know, fakery and

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Speaker 3: what do you call, you know, AI and all that stuff, right,

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Speaker 3: so you know, really good cases. You know, obviously the

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Speaker 3: Longes and more cases is very very compelling, and you

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Speaker 3: know Rui Zimbabwe extremely compelling mass sighting entities outside the craft,

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Speaker 3: and of course you got Virginia, Brazil, which also demonstrates

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Speaker 3: the global nature of the phenomenon. But I also was

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Speaker 3: in China and there was a case quite similar message

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Speaker 3: that the children from Ruizimbabwe Aerial School in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 3: four had talked about that message of being better stewards

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Speaker 3: of the planet, kind of thing that we become less technology,

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Speaker 3: I think is the word the children use. And there

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Speaker 3: was a similar case called Mungjiagua in China same time

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four, and the two villagers had described the

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Speaker 3: similar messages of better stewarts and not to become two technologies.

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Speaker 3: So it is as you well know, it is a

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Speaker 3: global phenomenon and there are very credible reports of entities

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Speaker 3: connected to the craft.

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