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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Hi, you welcome to take

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Speaker 1: it happened here the show where we just spent a

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Speaker 1: few minutes not recording by accident and also trying to

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Speaker 1: shoot my cataway so they would stop throwing uh old

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Speaker 1: grenades off my desk. So that's the vibe that we're

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Speaker 1: going for today. Okay, and oh do you know what

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Speaker 1: today is? Today is May Day, famed famed one of

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Speaker 1: the best holidays. Um so in the Mayday tradition. I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing my job today, so we're not doing a

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Speaker 1: real episode. But but don't don't worry. We still have

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Speaker 1: other content for you to listen to. Uh speaking of

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Speaker 1: content of the friend of the pod, Marcat Killjoy, Hi,

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Speaker 1: do you have anything that we can listen to today? No?

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Speaker 1: Was I supposed to prepare something. Oh oh wait, what

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Speaker 1: if I released the very first episode of my new

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Speaker 1: podcast today and what if it was a May Day

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Speaker 1: themed episode? Would that sound good? That would sound, as

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Speaker 1: the kids say, very based of you. That would be

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Speaker 1: so cool because if if you like May Day and

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Speaker 1: only working eight hours a week, which is still too

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Speaker 1: many hours, but if you enjoy that as opposed to

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Speaker 1: more hours, you should probably thank the anarchists. And you

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Speaker 1: can learn more about those people at Margaret's new show,

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Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff here on cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 1: Also featuring also featuring friend of the pod Robert Evans. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Robert Evans is a guest all that episode, so if

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Speaker 1: you're familiar with that guy, then you could also listen.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, episodes dropping every Monday and Wednesday until the

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Speaker 1: world burns. Yeah, so like three months? Three months? Well?

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Speaker 1: Actually did they said like what like forties six weeks?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I math it out. It was nine. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's nine months that the UN says we have to

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Speaker 1: turn everything around. But as as my friend pointed out,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna waste a month of that just trying to

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Speaker 1: do the math of calculating the weeks in ten months

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Speaker 1: I do love optimism. Well that does it for us today.

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Speaker 1: Go enjoy your May Day by not working or at

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Speaker 1: least just kind of sucking around. And that's what I'll

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Speaker 1: be doing. And cool people who did Cool stuff is

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Speaker 1: out now, so check it out wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I just realized I wasn't recording. Oh

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Speaker 1: we are not doing this again. It'll be fine. It's

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Speaker 1: like a bunch of different illustrations of dictators all done.

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Speaker 1: It's like little anime chicks. So they're all hot, so

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Speaker 1: like pol Pot's this like sexy girl and a throat

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Speaker 1: of skulls. But Tito they made into a milf like

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Speaker 1: she's got all of her kids around her. It's the

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Speaker 1: only it's the only one with kids. Um. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why they picked Tito for that, but it does

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Speaker 1: kind of work. This is it could happen here a

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Speaker 1: podcast about which anime war criminals are hottest. And it's idiomine. Actually,

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Speaker 1: the idiomine in that book is pretty pretty pretty smoking

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Speaker 1: as a like wearing black lingerie on a throne of skulls. Okay, nice,

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Speaker 1: just kissing you make it in no no kissinger all

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Speaker 1: all like like world leaders. Um, I would. I would

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Speaker 1: argue that, but he does not make the book. No,

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Speaker 1: it's sad tragic anyway, this is it could happen here podcast,

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Speaker 1: Things Falling Apart and other stuff. I'm here again with

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Speaker 1: my buddy Jay James James, Hi Hi hi one. Which

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Speaker 1: dictator do you think would be hottest? They were like

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Speaker 1: gender bit Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'd have to

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Speaker 1: go for like one of the old timey ones press

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Speaker 1: one of the one of the one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the os. Yeah. I think Kauzar Nikki had nothing

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Speaker 1: to do but like look hot and he was a

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Speaker 1: big workout guy. Yeah, big workout, got nice to rip,

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Speaker 1: nice nice outfits, tight trousers. I think I'd probably go

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Speaker 1: with him. Yeah, that that scans now which was hottest?

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Speaker 1: As they were, like, which is the most fuckable war criminal?

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Speaker 1: That's a tough one. I'd probably have to think about that,

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Speaker 1: I know. Not a coming to mind. Actually, oddly that

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Speaker 1: Stalin Pictures of Fake Yeah not not not nearly. Actually

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Speaker 1: that's sexy. Um Joseph the Stallion, I gotta go. I

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Speaker 1: gotta go with Saddam Hussein. Yeah, that's true. He has

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Speaker 1: a sort of lustful mustache and it's good that mustache

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Speaker 1: Fox James. We should probably talk about something that's not

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Speaker 1: which dictators are most falcable. UM. Today we're going to

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Speaker 1: chat about he fat courses uh, and about emergency UM

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Speaker 1: and particularly like combat medicine, which is a more relevant

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Speaker 1: topic for a lot of people. In the wake of

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Speaker 1: a couple there's a mass shooting at a protest in Portland. Uh,

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Speaker 1: There's been a whole lot of threats made against LGBT people. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Jack poss O Biak launched a T shirt that was

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Speaker 1: basically threatening a mass shooting at Disney World. All sorts

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Speaker 1: of fun ship has been happening. Yeah, it does seem

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Speaker 1: like we're aspiringing towards the end of times. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: certainly seems if you want to be less, you know,

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Speaker 1: apocalyptic than that. It certainly seems credible to say that

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Speaker 1: there's a pretty good chance people there are people listening

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Speaker 1: to this who have not been present at a shooting,

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Speaker 1: who will be present at a shooting at some point

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Speaker 1: in their lives. Yeah, And I think given that, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. So like I'm joking about the end

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Speaker 1: of times, right, Like we shouldn't panic and things we

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Speaker 1: should think about ways we can protect each other and

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Speaker 1: keep each other safe. Yeah. So what is a he

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Speaker 1: FAT course because you recently went through one. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: he FAT is an acronym right hostile environment first Aid training. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a British thing. I think that's the syllabus I

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Speaker 1: believe is standardized by the government in the UK. So

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Speaker 1: most of the courses you'll find are in the UK,

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Speaker 1: clustered around Hereford for pretty obvious reasons, but that there

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Speaker 1: are there are a couple in the United States, and

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Speaker 1: there are some in other countries too, And it's for journalists,

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Speaker 1: aid workers and GEO staff and anyone else who's working

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Speaker 1: in an environment that would be considered like high risk

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Speaker 1: or hostile. And to your point, that includes most of

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Speaker 1: the United States at the minute, right. Yeah, Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean we are in this funds place where literally any

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Speaker 1: moment could turn into a situation with the intensity of

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Speaker 1: a of a low density war zone. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: we have more weapons and than most war zones, and

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Speaker 1: also people who think it's okay to kill other people

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Speaker 1: because they like Mickey Mouse. So it does seem like

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Speaker 1: you said, it is more likely that we will see

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Speaker 1: more shootings, even bombings, and that kind of thing like

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Speaker 1: we can't say for sure, but yeah, now you you

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Speaker 1: have done some of the same kind of work that

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Speaker 1: that I and some other colleagues of ours have done,

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Speaker 1: you know, in in hostile environments, difficult places, prior to

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Speaker 1: going through this course. Obviously, when we're talking about like

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Speaker 1: what sort of first aid skill should people have, the

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Speaker 1: most basic stuff is like how to apply a tourniquet,

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Speaker 1: which we'll talk about a bit more later, how to

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Speaker 1: um if it's not because tourniquets are really only for extremities,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can't really turniquet a gut wound or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and so for that it's more like packing it but outside.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to assume you had your more than

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Speaker 1: your share of experience with that kind of stuff. What

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Speaker 1: did you learn new going through this course? Like, what

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Speaker 1: was the stuff that emphasized that's kind of beyond the basics? Yeah, so, um,

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Speaker 1: the stuff I've done before has been some of that

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Speaker 1: basic start the bleed stuff, and then a fair amount

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Speaker 1: of wilderness medicine stuff. So some of the improvised stretches

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Speaker 1: and stuff I was for Milliar with. I enjoyed some

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Speaker 1: of the releases they did, like I'm not talking about

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Speaker 1: like necessarily like a hand to hand combat or open

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Speaker 1: hand combat, but like ways to release yourself in a

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Speaker 1: non violent fashion. I thought that was very good. Ways

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Speaker 1: to move through crowd I found that very interesting. And

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Speaker 1: we did a lot around how to move under fire,

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Speaker 1: how to react around explosives, how to react around indirect fire,

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Speaker 1: and most of that had already covered, and then some

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Speaker 1: of the stuff around hostage situations to include a simulated

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Speaker 1: a hostage situation where you're blindfolded or hooded and sort

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Speaker 1: of ask questions and poked with a blank firing weapon.

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Speaker 1: As such, I think it's really good. You can't really

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Speaker 1: have enough fix what you can have too much experience

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Speaker 1: for that, but to simulate that and as realistic as

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Speaker 1: setting as possible I found was super helpful. So I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that was probably the most interesting thing for

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Speaker 1: me now when it comes to what kind of training

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Speaker 1: people can get, because the heath had courses a couple

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Speaker 1: of thousand bucks, which is beyond I know we have

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Speaker 1: some colleagues listening, and I think it's a good thing

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Speaker 1: for people who are going to do this kind of

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Speaker 1: journalism to consider, or if you're in you know, an

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Speaker 1: aid worker or someth someone who is going to be

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Speaker 1: going into these situations for a living. That's but for

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Speaker 1: a normal person listening, it's probably more than you're likely

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Speaker 1: to want to get UM or have the resources to

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Speaker 1: get So what what people because, because especially in the

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Speaker 1: wake of shooting is pretty much any time there's a

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Speaker 1: mass shooting or violence at a protest, I will tweet

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Speaker 1: about I FAX again. And an I FACT is an

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Speaker 1: individual first aid kit. It's what like every soldier is

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Speaker 1: supposed to have on their belt or on their plate carrier.

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Speaker 1: And it generally consists of what are called and this

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Speaker 1: is when people ask, like what should I get to

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Speaker 1: be ready for a shooting UM. Generally it consists of

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Speaker 1: consists of two chest seals. These are called eclusive dressings.

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Speaker 1: They're basically like kind of sheets of adhesive plastic. I

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Speaker 1: would say that you like put over if you get

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Speaker 1: shot in like the lungs, you your lungs kind of

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Speaker 1: depressure rise UM and that's bad. I'm not a I'm

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Speaker 1: not a biology expert, but you're not supposed to have

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Speaker 1: a whole three year lungs UM. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that you do to treat that immediately is you

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Speaker 1: put this kind of addressing over it, which stops the

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Speaker 1: lung from collapsing basically. Um, So that's one thing you'll

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Speaker 1: find in an IFAC. You'll also find what's called a

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Speaker 1: combat tourniquet. There's a bunch of kinds of tourniquets. Um.

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Speaker 1: I was doing a stop the bleed course. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: more about that in a bit, but that's the thing

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Speaker 1: everyone should do, like in terms of you know, he

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Speaker 1: fat is kind of more advanced and for people who

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Speaker 1: are going to professionally put themselves in shitty situations. Um,

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Speaker 1: stop the bleed is for everybody. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things I was having a chat with people who were

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Speaker 1: teaching them, we were doing a little meeting, um, and

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Speaker 1: one of the things that was brought up people always

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Speaker 1: talk about, well, I wear a belt in case I

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Speaker 1: need to make a tourniquet or this or that, and

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Speaker 1: virtually never works, like close to zero percent success, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: even when it's someone who's trained and experienced providing tourniquets,

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Speaker 1: like random ship does not make a good tourniquet. Tourniquets

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Speaker 1: make good tourniquets. Yeah, They's more that easy to carry.

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Speaker 1: They down't cheap, right, But on the same you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: cheap out on them either, right, Like we've I know

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this on Twitter, and I know like

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Speaker 1: Amazon Sales M they force had a problem with selling

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Speaker 1: fakes sor like North American Rescue. I think it's called

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Speaker 1: emergency rescue. I'll give you something. Yeah, North American Rescue

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Speaker 1: is really good one of the so, yeah, rescue essentials.

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Speaker 1: So what a combat tourniquet is, because there's different. Some

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Speaker 1: tourniquets are just like a plastic band almost almost like

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Speaker 1: if you go to a gym, those things that people

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Speaker 1: like wrap around their legs to do squats or something

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Speaker 1: or lifts. It's kind of like it looks a little

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Speaker 1: like that. Um and those Yeah, obviously like those can work,

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Speaker 1: but they're not nearly A combat tourniquet is basically it's

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Speaker 1: a little um like kind of Nyloni fabric belt thing

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Speaker 1: that you strap around and you tighten it um and

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Speaker 1: velcrow it tight and then there's something called a windless

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Speaker 1: which is basically a metal or plastic stick that you

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Speaker 1: then twist around. Uh, and that twisting action when you

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Speaker 1: twist it, that's going to tighten it and that's going

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Speaker 1: to stop the artery from bleeding. Um, and then you

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Speaker 1: lock it into place. There's a little place to lock it.

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Speaker 1: And so when you get a cheap tourniquet, it generally

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Speaker 1: means the windlass is made out of something flimsy or

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Speaker 1: the fabric at hearing the windlass to the belt thing

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Speaker 1: is not very good and it will break when being tightened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want What you don't want to do

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Speaker 1: is not have enough pressure, have sort of weird pressure,

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Speaker 1: because what you're going to do tomorrow, I'm not that

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Speaker 1: kind of doctor. Right, is you can cut off the

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Speaker 1: venus return and not the arterial flow, and that's what

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Speaker 1: you can give yourself compartments in direct right. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to backtrack quickly. And we're talking about how expensive

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Speaker 1: he facts are. If people are listening and they are

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Speaker 1: in that kind of line of work. The International Women's

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Speaker 1: Media Foundation is doing free he fat courses for women,

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Speaker 1: gender nonconforming, non binary people, and I gotta I got

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Speaker 1: a grant from the Rory Peck Trust to go and

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Speaker 1: do mind so for journalists. Both those are really only

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Speaker 1: for journalists and media. I would really encourage people to apply. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: um and that's that's great information because if you can

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Speaker 1: even if like your journalism has been sort of like

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Speaker 1: citizen journalism where you're showing up at a protest and

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Speaker 1: you know, taking pictures or whatever. UM, give it a shot,

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Speaker 1: like if you like, the more people who have this

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Speaker 1: kind of training. UM, as a general rule, the better. UM.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to stop the bleed courses are generally

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Speaker 1: going to be much more available. Some of them are

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Speaker 1: operated as charities and we'll give out an I fac

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Speaker 1: or something at the end. Some of them have a

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Speaker 1: nominal fee. It kind of depends on where you are.

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Speaker 1: I've seen both. Portland has a lot of stop the

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Speaker 1: bleed courses, which is why when we had our most

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Speaker 1: recent mass shooting at a protest, UM, more people didn't

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Speaker 1: die because folks had equipment and we're ready. UM, you're

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Speaker 1: you should expect to spend about thirty bucks generally on

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Speaker 1: a combat tourniquet. UM, sometimes twenty, but like the good

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Speaker 1: ones are all about thirty. UM. I would shoot for

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Speaker 1: something with a metal windless that's generally assign. Again, there's

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Speaker 1: like Rescue Essentials and a couple of other brands that

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Speaker 1: are reliable. But it's called a Tactical Committee on Combat Care,

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Speaker 1: which is the government finding thing. It's so like if

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Speaker 1: you let them do the research so you don't have to.

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Speaker 1: They provide a list of cornic tornic case torn cats.

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Speaker 1: The one that most people have is that could cat

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Speaker 1: right combat application tornic. If you get that, even if

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Speaker 1: it's not the best one or the smallest lights or whatever,

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Speaker 1: every that's the one most people train with they know

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Speaker 1: how to use. And I think you've said this before, like,

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Speaker 1: even if you don't know how to use it, if

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Speaker 1: you are in a situation where it's needed and you

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Speaker 1: just say I have this, have a tornic, that someone

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Speaker 1: might take it and use it. So yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's like it's okay if you panic, as long as

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Speaker 1: you get that into the hands of somebody who can

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Speaker 1: use it. But it's also important if you're going to

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Speaker 1: carry it to train with it. I heard when I

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Speaker 1: posted about this recently, someone said that they and their

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Speaker 1: friends have a game where when they're like hanging out,

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Speaker 1: somebody will toss a tourniquet at someone else and say, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, right arm or something like that, right arm

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Speaker 1: above elbow or something like that, and they'll have to

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Speaker 1: apply the turn, get and get it on as quickly

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Speaker 1: as they can in that place, which is a good game.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to like in twenty or thirty seconds,

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Speaker 1: like you know, you don't have to like injure yourself

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Speaker 1: doing it, but you can you can get it on

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Speaker 1: and get familiar with the motions and build like a

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Speaker 1: competence with it. Yeah, work out when you're going to

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Speaker 1: lass through the limb and when you're gonna take it

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Speaker 1: off and go all the way around. But I think

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Speaker 1: standardizing one thing certainly among you and your affinity group

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Speaker 1: or your friends is probably a good move. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's it's one of those things the kind of

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Speaker 1: injuries that tourniquets are most needed for our like arterial

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Speaker 1: bleeding um, which is the kind of thing that if

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Speaker 1: you don't get a TURNI get on that you're dead

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Speaker 1: um very quickly. Like people will bleed out in seconds

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Speaker 1: sometimes from like a femoral Yeah, you've seen an arterial bleed,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure that I know I have. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you have. You know that that person has an arterial

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Speaker 1: bleed that is a pressurized gushing of blood. It's like

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Speaker 1: bright the blood arterial bleeding. It comes out in spurts,

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Speaker 1: and it is like right, it is not. It does

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Speaker 1: not look like when you cut your finger the blood

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Speaker 1: tends to unless you're really cutting the ship out of

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Speaker 1: that figure. Yeah, yeah, you. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: we did at this course, which is called at You

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Speaker 1: is they had like a simulated arterial bleeds and a

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Speaker 1: person was wearing it like a camelback, and then they

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Speaker 1: had like a hose pipe and it was just gushing

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Speaker 1: out and then you could actually cinch down on it

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Speaker 1: right with the strap and that actually stopped. Now, I

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Speaker 1: mean when it comes to like more advanced bleeding care,

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Speaker 1: because there's some wounds where number one, if it's like,

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Speaker 1: for example, too high up in your like crotch or something,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not necessarily going to be able to

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Speaker 1: get a cat up there. Sometimes people will literally hold

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Speaker 1: the artery closed like that is a thing that and

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Speaker 1: that is more advanced certainly, um, but it is. It

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Speaker 1: is also like the physics of this are very basic.

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Speaker 1: If you can figure out where blood is coming from

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Speaker 1: and close it, blood will stop coming out, right, Like

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Speaker 1: that's the principle of all immediate wound care for that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Yeah, there's an acronym that you use,

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Speaker 1: right Dr March, which we can go over danger right, So,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is the thing that often gets

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Speaker 1: forgotten actually, especially if you're doing like somebody's start to bleed,

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Speaker 1: which is focused on first aid rather than specifically in

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Speaker 1: kind of combat carib If you get hurt, not only

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Speaker 1: are you useless to that person, not only are you hurt.

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Speaker 1: If someone comes to help, now they have to think

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Speaker 1: about which person they're going to help. Right, It's how

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Speaker 1: much harder to carry two people than one person? So

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Speaker 1: don't do that? Uh? And then response right, so, Robert,

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Speaker 1: I see you've been shot. Doesn't look great? You okay?

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Speaker 1: And then massive bleed, air way respiration, check head to

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Speaker 1: toe and then hypothermia. And you know one of the

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Speaker 1: things that is so like a combat tourniquet, you just

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Speaker 1: generally you can keep it in like a kit. It's

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Speaker 1: also fine to keep it loose in your pocket. You

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Speaker 1: are not worried about sterility when you are applying a tourniquet.

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Speaker 1: It does not matter if you get shipped in the

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Speaker 1: wound like, because they will die. They will be dead

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Speaker 1: in a minute if you don't get the tourniquet on

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Speaker 1: um anyway, right, Yeah, yeah, you're not putting it in

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Speaker 1: or whatever like it. So yeah, so that's that's one kind.

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Speaker 1: And that's again you're talking about extremities, right. You can't

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Speaker 1: put a tourniquet on the neck because that would kill

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Speaker 1: the person. Um. You would use an inclusive a lot

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Speaker 1: of times on the neck, especially if like the airway

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Speaker 1: gets Again. This is stuff that you would you would

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Speaker 1: get in to stop the bleed. Course, and I recommend

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Speaker 1: people for that. So we're not going to go over

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Speaker 1: treatment outside of like these basics, but we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: like you should have an inclusive dressing. Two is what

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Speaker 1: most effects come with. People I know who have responded

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Speaker 1: to shootings say you want more like four because they

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Speaker 1: are a lot wind up getting used. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: about I think those specty chest seals and something that

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Speaker 1: I've been told by people with a lot more experience

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Speaker 1: than me. It's like when you're dealing with a military setting,

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Speaker 1: most people will have their chests covered with plates, right,

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Speaker 1: and plate carries, and a civilian setting most people want

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Speaker 1: so you're going to see a lot more of those

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Speaker 1: like a sucking chest wods or penetration of the thoracic cavity.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and in that setting, and they are very small, right,

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Speaker 1: you can put them into back pocket of your skin

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Speaker 1: cheets and no one would notice. So another kind of

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Speaker 1: thing that you'll find in an I fact that's useful

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Speaker 1: is combat gauze. So there's two types of gauze that

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Speaker 1: you'll get in kits. One is just gauze, which you

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Speaker 1: know what gauzes um most wounds, if they are not

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Speaker 1: life threatening, packing with gauze and wrapping is perfectly sufficient

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Speaker 1: at least for immediate care. But combat gauze is impregnated

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Speaker 1: with a thing called cell locks, which is our little granules.

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Speaker 1: You can actually get them, just as the powder. You

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Speaker 1: shouldn't because it's it's not going to be useful to

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Speaker 1: you as a random person. Um, you should get it

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Speaker 1: in gauze, like impregnated into gauze, but it's made from

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Speaker 1: ground up crustacean shells and it basically makes blood clot

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Speaker 1: very quickly. Um survivability of arterial wounds in combat, which

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Speaker 1: was extremely low before cellos jumped to something like or

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Speaker 1: so like. It's it's pretty remarkable the degree to which

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Speaker 1: it's made certain particularly like fomoral bleeds survivable um, and

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Speaker 1: it can be used if you've got, like it's a

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Speaker 1: serious arterial bleed. It will often be used in conjunction

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Speaker 1: if it's on an extremity with a tourniquet um. But

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Speaker 1: you can just use it to pack a bleeding wound.

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Speaker 1: And if you pack it and apply pressure, sometimes you'll

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Speaker 1: pack the combat gulls into there and then add other

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Speaker 1: gals outside of it. Like, but it's it's most wounds

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Speaker 1: that are bleeding aren't going to require sell off scars.

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Speaker 1: And it's pretty expensive, but it's another really useful thing

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Speaker 1: to have if there is like an arterial bleed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think actually the where we first I think kalin

401
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Speaker 1: might be what the stuff is called. I believe it

402
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Speaker 1: comes from indigenous practices using it to stop bleeding. But yeah,

403
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Speaker 1: it comes in a small package. Quicklot is the normal brand,

404
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Speaker 1: and yeah, it's a lot of what we've learned about

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Speaker 1: stopping arterial bleeds has come from twenty years of war, right,

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Speaker 1: and they're obviously a lot of town site but yeah,

407
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Speaker 1: learning about how to stop those things is one of

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Speaker 1: the things that It's got a lot better in the

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Speaker 1: last decade or so. That's another thing. And you can

410
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Speaker 1: always buy these kids pre made. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: make various premate kids. Yeah, you can google i FAC

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Speaker 1: and make sure it's you know, rated, well dot do

413
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Speaker 1: your research. We've mentioned some brands here, but like, it's

414
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Speaker 1: not hard to find I Fax. They're they're made constantly

415
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Speaker 1: And it's one of those things we talked on this

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Speaker 1: show about being armed and whether or not people should

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Speaker 1: should have firearms. And I'm broadly supportive of of particularly

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Speaker 1: threatened people having guns. But there's downsides to having a gun. Um,

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Speaker 1: a number of them. We don't need to get into

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Speaker 1: the statistics, but there are a bunch of downsides to

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Speaker 1: being armed. There's no downside to having an i FAC

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Speaker 1: and keeping one in your car, keep one in your backpack,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um, there's absolutely no way you will have

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Speaker 1: a negative experience as a result of the fact that

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Speaker 1: you keep an eye fact on you and it might

426
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 1: save somebody's life. Yeah. I have a little ankle holster

427
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: that I use when I'm working in places where we

428
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't look very you know, it would look off to

429
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 1: have it on my belt, Uh, And I don't want

430
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: to carry backpack. Maybe I needed to wrap around my

431
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 1: ankle and it has a tiny combat dressing, which you

432
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: haven't really talked about chess seal tornique and it doesn't

433
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 1: have the quick clut. But then the combat dressing has

434
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 1: its own goals. Yeah, we can talk about that in

435
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: a second. But like I just have like I have

436
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: a up effects but also just in all of my

437
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: light jackets because you know Oregon, usually you can wear

438
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: some sort of jacket. I just have a bunch of

439
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: cats and quick clot gauze packets just kind of scattered around,

440
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: like there's nearly always something just in my pocket or

441
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: in the center console in my car um in addition

442
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: to the actual packed I fax and yeah it's handy. Um,

443
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 1: it's just good to have around. It never hurt to

444
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: have more of that stuff. Or you have the means

445
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: or you know, if you are in a situation where

446
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 1: something horrible has happened, right like what happened in Portland,

447
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: if you in your truck, have three or four of

448
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 1: those and you can just be to go go goes.

449
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: Anyone know how to use these? Use these if they're

450
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: in your backpack when you're at a protest, like you

451
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: could potentially save several lives. So if you have the means,

452
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: said give them to strangers, like, it's not like it's

453
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: not like a gun, right, Like you can't end your

454
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: life with with quick cloth. Yeah, so yeah, I would.

455
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: It's a thing that everyone should feel good about having.

456
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: We should note again, you wouldn't want to use quick

457
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: clot on a wound that was not serious because there's

458
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: some concept like it burns, it's it's kind of nasty

459
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: stuff in some ways. Um, it can cause some complications

460
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: for for like when the e M T s get there, Um,

461
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: it's often recommended that you keep the packaging and give

462
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: it to them. But if it's if someone is clearly

463
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 1: going to bleed to death like that, then that then

464
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: that's when you use quick clot. And if you're questioning

465
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: whether or not a wound is serious enough that someone

466
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: might bleed to death from it, assume they will, right

467
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: like air On the side of that, if you're wondering

468
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: is that a deadly bleed, you're probably should probably treat

469
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: it as if it is. Yeah, I mean, you're always

470
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: better of keeping more blood inside the person, right Yeah,

471
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: with that, Yeah, I've been told to take that to

472
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: the person. And the same with the tonic gate, where

473
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: we should say that there will be blood around, you

474
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: can put a T on their forehead with the blood.

475
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: It's pretty normal and that works in almost any language.

476
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: And then you want to write the time it was

477
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: applied to, and again you can do that with the blood.

478
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: But I have a half sized sharp that often comes

479
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: in those kids. Yea, yeah, And it's one of those

480
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: things like assuming. It kind of is depending on your

481
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: situation whether or not you'd likely to have the time

482
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: to mark that before the E M T s arrive,

483
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: But it is one of those things even if it's

484
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: even if your first responding is a minute and a

485
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: half or two minutes with a serious bleed, that can

486
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: be the difference between life and death for somebody. Yes, absolutely, yeah, yeah,

487
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: And it's different what you do when carry than coming

488
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: to what you do when carries coming. But the first

489
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: steps are not right stop the blood coming out of

490
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: the person. So we should probably talk about combat dressings

491
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, yeah, there are several types. The

492
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: one I've had suggested that I prefer, I think, I

493
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: don't know how it's pronounced. It's O L A Y

494
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: Slays dressing and has a little eye cup in it

495
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: as well, which you can use for eye injuries, Like

496
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: find someone more of qualified than me to teach you

497
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: how to do that. I don't need to get into that,

498
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: but yeah, but it's it's a pad with gores in

499
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: it and then a sort of ace bandage, right, And

500
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: what it does is provides compression and obviously like an

501
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: absorbent goals, you can also pull the goals out. A

502
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: fun thing to do is to find an expired one

503
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: and pull all that goals out and there is just

504
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: an unfathomable amount of gores there. So you can use

505
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: that like pack a wound, and practicing packing a wound

506
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: is also something that you can do. They're like little

507
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: little bottles. Yeah. The team I know who does stop

508
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: the bleed courses will take phone rollers and cut holes

509
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: in them and use that as like to so you

510
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: can and you can do different sizes, right. You can

511
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: actually just like get a knife and like jam at

512
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: its stab at a bunch and like use those as

513
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: different practice wounds. Yeah, it's a good idea. Can you

514
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: pack with two fingers? You know more than that even

515
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: one finger? People can pack with one finger. So like

516
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: what this dressing does is opposite. It's sometimes they're called

517
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: is rarely bandages, olas bandages. They often come in like

518
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: a tan package, the Israeli ones. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Again,

519
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: like I would buy that from a reputable source, and

520
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: they come in various sizes. Emergency dressing is another name,

521
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: and yeah, those are great for things where you don't

522
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: need to use quick clot where you may not need yeah,

523
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: significant bleeding, but not like immediately life threatening. Yeah, in

524
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: some areas well, like sometimes in the forearm, right, Like

525
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: it can be hard because of these bones structures to

526
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: get the tornic a to work, so like you might

527
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: be able to use that start the you might have

528
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: to use quick club, right, but like having those options

529
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: is important. And again they're pretty small, probably the cheapest

530
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: of the things we've suggested so far as well. And

531
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: again they didn't they make giant ones from abdominal wounds

532
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: to um and so like, I actually have one of

533
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: those in my truck, have a bunch of more stuff

534
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: in my truck. I wrote a piece about a first

535
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: aid kit for your vehicle, which might leave me look

536
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: slightly different, right if you imagine again, Like, and we've

537
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: talked about shootings, but uh, car accidents, that's that's when

538
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: I the only time I've had to use those dressings.

539
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: Have been car accidents that helped pull the fucking dude

540
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: out of a truck that flipped on the way outside

541
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: of Los Angeles during a rainstorm, and his like whole

542
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: fucking like right here in his hand had been gouged

543
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: open where like the it was quite a bit of blood. Um.

544
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, like that, that's a bit. It's not all

545
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: just like action movie ship like. It's something you should

546
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: keep on you because there's a wide variety of things

547
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: that can cause people to bleed a lot, Yes, exactly, Yeah, yeah,

548
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: and I think we are we always underestimated risk of

549
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: these drivings by the most dangerous thing most people do.

550
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: And yet having that in your car, you know, you

551
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: don't have to worry so much about carrying it. It

552
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: can just always be there. Don't leave it where it's

553
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: going to bake in the sun if you're in a

554
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: hot place. But yeah, again, the potential for you saving

555
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: a stranger's life or a friend's ie, Yeah, it's high. Yeah,

556
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: keep it in a center console, keep it in a trunk,

557
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: you know, keep it in a trunk alongside a machete

558
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 1: in a golf club. You know, you're always ready for anything.

559
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: With that, I'm never ready for golf. But aside from that,

560
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: i'd be Oh, I wasn't saying for golfing. Yeah, for

561
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: exactly for crime. Medical actually make a read. Yes, they

562
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: make a lovely vehicle first aid kit and the very

563
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: nice people to so, yeah, that that's want to look into.

564
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 1: And they also do the bags. I have a mystery

565
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: runch bag that also clips onto it replaces the hood

566
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: or my backpack, and I have that in my truck

567
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: and then if I'm going out, especially when I'm going

568
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: out climbing, I'll just click that on and have a

569
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: slight different kit that I take just for climbing. But

570
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: that's one of those scenarios where like, you could hurt

571
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: yourself climbing and even if people are coming very quickly,

572
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: it's going to take you a while, right and and

573
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: thinking another thing, I would be prepared to self rescue.

574
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: That's part of why you bring that kind of stuff.

575
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: Self rescue a massive part of climbing, right, learn learning

576
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: the lots sing the transfer of learning, the ways that

577
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: you can get yourself off of one of you hurt

578
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: yourself on the wall. And the American Alpine Club actually

579
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: publishes a thing called accidents in North American climbing climb.

580
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: This okay, this person sunked up by this, and they

581
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: did this and this and this, and they were okay,

582
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: they weren't okay. So I think that's a very good

583
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: practice learning from other people. And with that, a big

584
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: thing that you focus on a wilderness medicine is rather

585
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: than what can I bring with me, what do I

586
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: have to already have with me? And how can I

587
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: use that? Right? So, for instance, you need to splin

588
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: a leg, right you have a broken leg using a

589
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: sleeping pad or something which already has those redid sleeves

590
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: to do that. And that's something that like I don't

591
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: want to obviously advise people too much. Yeah, I don't

592
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: want to, like because again, so the difference this is useful.

593
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: People should be thinking about this UM when it comes

594
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: to emergency first aid, Like somebody was a broken leg.

595
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: If you're not, like, there's no real response that you

596
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: should like, that's not what stopped the bleed is for right,

597
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: Like UM. One one of the nice things about emergency

598
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: medicine like this, like when you're talking about someone is

599
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: bleeding to death, is that one of the ways I

600
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: guess that you can. You can you can separate the

601
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: two kinds of like first responding, because there's the first

602
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: responding where you can make it worse. And if you

603
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: like somebody like breaks a bone or something and you

604
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: can make that worse, yes, but if somebody has an

605
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: arterial bleeding, you can't make that worse. There. It's the

606
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: same thing with like um chest compressions. Right when you

607
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: get trained as an e m T, one of the

608
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: things they'll point out is that, like, you shouldn't use

609
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: um an a E D on an infant, but you

610
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: do because if they're needed, they're dead. And in that case, Yeah,

611
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: I think it's important. Also in the thing that I

612
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: didn't mention that I found very helpful about its course,

613
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: some of this psychological aspects of this is to remember

614
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: that if you do find yourself in this situation and

615
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: you try and help and that person dies anyway, then

616
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: you did your best right and that is of value.

617
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: Like I've been in situations where I've tried to help

618
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: someone and they've died anyway, and I think just remembering

619
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: that like that person hadn't something terrible happened to them,

620
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: and that your help didn't you know, like you tried

621
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: your best to give that person at the chance it

622
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 1: is not. If you are responding to somebody who has

623
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: this kind of injury, there is a pretty good chance

624
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: what you do won't matter. Like it's the same thing

625
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: if you are giving someone chest compressions. That's very unlikely

626
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: to save their life. Like a fraction of the time

627
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: when that happens, does it save anybody, But it can't

628
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: make it worse if they're not breathing. If they're not breathing, yeah,

629
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: they're going to die. Yeah, yeah, And I think you know,

630
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: it's not like the movies on television, and sometimes it

631
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: doesn't work, but it's important to talk about that in

632
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: the context. Yes, actually much probably much more likely the

633
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: person survive if you're doing this stuff right, you're slapping

634
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: on the torn again, you do it right, you will

635
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: stop that person, yes, yes, and and but you know

636
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: again it is a lot of times what you might

637
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: be doing is keeping them alive long enough to get

638
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: to the hospital, and you can't guarantee anything other than

639
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: that they don't bleed out right there, right, and then

640
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: maybe other injuries. You haven't seen this where we did

641
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: the check head to toe, right, and stuff like that,

642
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: Like especially in blast injuries, you might not notice injuries

643
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: to the back. Yeah, shrapnel as a whole. I mean,

644
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: but all you can do is like try to treat

645
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: what you can see, yes, exactly, and make sure that

646
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: you don't miss anything by going through that doctor March

647
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: procedure right which you're learning the course, but yeah, you're

648
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: having a procedure that you do where you make checks

649
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: so that you don't miss something that you could have stopped,

650
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: because then I imagine you will feel bad. Yeah, and

651
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: none of what we've said we should probably bring this

652
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: to a close should be seen as like the end

653
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: all be all, or our attempt to give you comprehensive

654
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: training on this is in no way training. This is

655
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: advice on number one, the equipment that's necessary for stopping

656
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: someone from bleeding to death, and number two the kinds

657
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: of training you should get in order to use it,

658
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: and you should seek training. You should find a stop

659
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: the bleed course. You should take a wilderness medicine course

660
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: if you can. If you if you are someone who

661
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: is in a field that it's relevant for, you should

662
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: try to get a HEA fat course. Um, don't don't

663
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: just like be Okay, I listened to a thirty minute podcast.

664
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm ready to stop a bleed. Go go get some training. Um,

665
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: but definitely get a tourniquet and practice with it. You

666
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: can do some training yourself. You can find videos online

667
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: by reputable people who are affiliated with different rescue organizations

668
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: talking about and showing how to apply tourniquets, how to

669
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: apply dressings, UM like that. That's available, and you can

670
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: provide yourself with a useful amount of education and some

671
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: of the basics that way. Yeah, I think just to

672
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: give out some resources on how you can get the

673
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: education right to stop the league to org should be

674
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: free almost anywhere you are and you'd like to get

675
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: more training. Most community colleges have an E M T

676
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: course that is very affordable. Yeah, a heat fat course

677
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: can run you a couple of grand if it's not subsidized.

678
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: The last time when I took my impute training, it

679
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: was a thousand dollars. Yeah, I think it's less than

680
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: that now. I know people don't have many students who

681
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: are going through empty training, and it's pretty affordable free

682
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: often enduring California, it's often free. The other things you

683
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: can do are wilderness medicine that is expensive. The American

684
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: Alpine Club has grants, like more and more diverse group

685
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: of people should apply because all of the outdoors could

686
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: do with a lot more diversity, and encourage people to apply. Yes,

687
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: so for all of these training there are grants, and

688
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: I would encourage more people to apply to them. But you, yeah,

689
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: you can learn a lot for free or online. You

690
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: can and should try and educate your friends. Like we're

691
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: saying is some of this stuff is hard to funk up.

692
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: And even if you don't feel confident, confident using stuff

693
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: rescue essential with North American Rescue, Chinnook Medical there's a

694
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: places where you can buy a pre made I fact

695
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: carry that around and someone else can use it. And

696
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: again for talking about like the benefits of this versus

697
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: the cool looking tactical gear and guns and stuff, it's

698
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: entirely possible to have a bunch of military equipment that

699
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: is worse than useless if you don't know how to

700
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: use it, is actively a danger to other people. If

701
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of medical gear and you don't

702
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: know how to use it, but you have it on you,

703
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: you can always shout like I have a tourniquet, I

704
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: have like a combat dressing or something like, does anyone

705
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: know how to use it? No one is going to

706
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: make fun of you in the mike of a mass

707
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: shooting for trying to hand off your gear to someone

708
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: who knows how to use it. Yeah, exactly. And like

709
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: you don't have to carry around a little green multi

710
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: camp out or something like. You can get a bum bag,

711
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: put it in a fucking purse, like whatever, it doesn't matter. Yeah,

712
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter at all. They have a very small,

713
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: very compact and like a bumbag or family pack is

714
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: very handy because you can switch it from the back

715
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: to the front get to all your stuff. So, yeah,

716
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 1: you don't have to be all like tactical fucking Sammy savior.

717
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: Just be sensible and safe. Yeah, even if you don't,

718
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: even if you panic or whatever and can't be the

719
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: one to use it, you can still help save somebody's

720
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: life by fucking having the ship, because it's it's irreplaceable

721
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: when it's not there. Yeah, I would just to encourage

722
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: people to not use to the elastic cornicate. Yes, don't

723
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: go and buy Nils up stuff because you know you

724
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: can probably pay the same price to get on that's

725
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: not expired and to yeah, just be conscious buying from

726
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: those reputable people. They often have sales, especially around holidays.

727
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: You can you can hold out and wait for those. Um.

728
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: They were pretty good resources on Reddit as well. Actually

729
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: there's a tactical medicine subreddit where people will sort of

730
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: list their kits and often posted as a sale. So

731
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: sometimes worth cruising that. If this is something, yeah, do

732
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: some research. Um you may find right now, especially from

733
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: places like Rescue Essentials. It is harder to get combat

734
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: tourniquets because the war in Ukraine has caused a shortage

735
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: of the good ones. But you can still find them.

736
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: You just may need to search around a little bit. Yeah.

737
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: What I found was that because you've posted about this

738
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: after New York shooting, was that they were out of

739
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: the straight tornic it, but they were not out. They

740
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: wanted to go with the pouch. Pouch cost like six

741
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: or eight dollars. I know that that that's more of

742
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: an expense if you can. If you can afford that,

743
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: then getting that's not a bad idea anyway, because you

744
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: can put on your boat, put it and have one

745
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: of my backpack hiking right, So that's definitely something that yeah,

746
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: all right, well that's gonna do it for this episode. James,

747
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: you want to plug anything um anarchism? Oh good, yes, absolutely,

748
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: um yeah, go uh to find a hierarchy and like

749
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: throw a rock at it. Yeah. Just look after other

750
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: people and don't resort to the state to do it.

751
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: Be kind to each other and uh get getting MP

752
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: training if you can. Oh yeah, that's a beautiful sound.

753
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: This is it could happen here a podcast about things

754
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: falling apart and sometimes putting them back together. I'm Robert Evans.

755
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: I'm here again with Dr James Stout. James say, hello,

756
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: hi people. We are in an undisclosed location. Is that

757
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: going to get you in trouble with your immigration stuff? Yes? Yeah, okay,

758
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: well let's just bleep out the rest of that, but

759
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: keep the thing with me asking if it's gonna get

760
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: him in trouble with this immigration officer, that'll be fine.

761
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: This is a podcast that all too often, as Garrison

762
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: and I say, winds up us being like here's a problem, goodbye,

763
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: um and telling people about problems is important, but it's

764
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: also important to talk about solutions. Now there's been a

765
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: discourse not just on the Twitter but on the subreddit

766
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: for um. It could happen here repeatedly over the last

767
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 1: few months of people talking about like how would anarchists

768
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: handle things like large scale distribution of food, UM, an

769
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: industrial base, you know, how how would anarchists? How would

770
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: anarchist society handle infrastructure in any meaningful capacity? Um? And

771
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: I think there's kind of a wide spread idea among

772
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: some people that like, you have to have intense centralization

773
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: UM to do that. UM. Now, James, you are I

774
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: wasn't joking about the doctor thing. You do have a PhD.

775
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: In Your specific area of specialty is the Spanish Civil War,

776
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: that's right, Yeah, even more specific than that, actually, my

777
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: h my very specific area of a specialty is the

778
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: second republics of a period before the Civil War and

779
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: really like the first week of the Spanish Civil War.

780
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: But yes, Catalonia specifically, like revolutionary Catalonia. And I guess

781
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: my thing is the anti fascist Popular Olympics in six

782
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: but more broadly Catalonia and Catalonia before and in the

783
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: Civil War. Yeah. And one of the things that's interesting

784
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: about this period is you did have one of the

785
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: fairly rare times in history where a significant number of

786
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: people were living in an industrialized Ish nation UM with

787
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: with anarchists under anarchist principles UM and a number of

788
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: things were done in an anarchist fashion, including the production

789
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: of armored vehicles, the maintenance of large amounts of agriculture,

790
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, power and whatnot. Um. So yeah, how how

791
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: how do how do James? Yeah, how do anarchism? Let

792
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: me tell you? UM? I should start by saying like,

793
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm not like a big, big theory guy and more

794
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: of a sort of doing things guy, um. Person. But yeah,

795
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: so if we look at what we had in Catalonia

796
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: right in six, the Spanish Civil War, if you're not familiar,

797
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: starts on the nineteenth d N six with a coup. Right, Um,

798
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: some of this will sound familiar. Maybe you should listen

799
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: to our podcast about Me and mar But we have

800
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: a military uprising against a leftist democratic government that has

801
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: just been elected in nineteen thirty six after two years

802
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: of a right wing It's called the Biennio Negro, like

803
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: the Black by any and the you know you've lived

804
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: through the Trump Ship, you understand. Um. So we have

805
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: this coup that happens and in cities across Spain, the

806
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: coup is largely stopped the differentiating factors we talked about

807
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: this in our podcast is where the people are armed,

808
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 1: the coup is stopped. Where the people are not armed,

809
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: where the government says, then we weren't released weapons to

810
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: you the coup, the coup succeeds. Right now, in Barcelona,

811
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: the coup is stopped almost entirely by the anarchists, with

812
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of help from the police. Actually, oddly right, Um,

813
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: the one classic allies and the police fighting it together.

814
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: I mean it is also a very different kind of

815
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: situation with the I mean yeah, culturally, like how does

816
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: that happen? How does that happen? Well, in Spain, you

817
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: have various police forces, right, and some of them are

818
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: created by the Second Republic, So they are police that

819
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: exist really to protect the republic from things that would

820
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: attack it. That does not mean that they do not

821
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: attack for workers, right, the Republic was often called the

822
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: Republic of order because they violently put down strikes and

823
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: the anarchists killed them. But in this instance they remained

824
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: loyal g the cops. Yeah, that's that's a pretty steady thing.

825
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: But in this instance, the Republic was under attack from

826
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: the right, right, from the military, and in some towns,

827
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: the police split for the military, but in Barcelona they

828
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: largely did not. Write. We have various police guards, police

829
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: groups in Spain, federal and local, but the assault guards

830
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: and the civil guards in Barcelona largely remained with the

831
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: republic right. And it's important to maybe if we if

832
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: we step back a second to explain the concept of

833
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: a popular front, then we can understand them more easily, right,

834
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: And we do for more detail on this. We talk

835
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: about a decent amount of this in our Behind the

836
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: Insurrections episodes on the Spanish Civil War and the popular fronts,

837
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: which aren't just a Spanish thing. They exist in France,

838
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: they exist in a number of other countries. It's the

839
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: thing that gets tried on several occasions, often successfully, at

840
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: least from an electoral standpoint. Yeah, yeah, it's very successful

841
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: at this time, right. And it's important to understand that

842
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: the r C, which translates his Catalan Republican left, had

843
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: more or less been on popular front since nineteen thirty one,

844
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: and a popular front is basically this thing we keep

845
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: talking about, where what if everybody on the left could

846
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: get on the same page about stopping fascism. That's the

847
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: basic idea is like, you've got your libs, you've got

848
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: your commies, you've got your anarchists, you've got other weird

849
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: junks of the left, and everybody agrees, let's all work

850
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: together to deal with this specific right wing threat right now. Yes, yeah, exactly,

851
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: like we can put our differences aside and move forward. Um.

852
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: So that's what you have in the Second Republic is

853
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: explicitly called the Popular Front right, and so that is

854
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: why the police in Barcelona split with the anarchists. Now,

855
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: what happens in Barcelona is that the military march into

856
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: town from outside of town and just pretty much get

857
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: get they their ship pushed back in by the anarchist right.

858
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: All around town, gunfights breakout. In one instance, um, the

859
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: anarchists are able to persuade the soldiers manning a machine

860
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: gun that their class solidarity is more important than their

861
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: obedience to their offices, and then they turn the machine

862
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: gun on their offices and or their officers instead. Unbelievably,

863
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: this exceptionally fucking cool. Right. The Spantis Civil War has

864
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: all these amazing stories like that, but that that's one

865
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: of my favorites. Right, doesn't happen often. It's great when

866
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: it does. So what we have by the end of

867
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: the first week of the Spanish Civil War is a

868
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: situation where in Catalonia the city is in the hands

869
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: of the anarchists. As this meeting that happens between the

870
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: President of Catalonia and the anarchists, it may or may

871
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: not be apocryphal, or the exact words may not be apocypal,

872
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. What happens is that the anarchists go

873
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: to the President of Catalonia and they he says to them,

874
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: you're in control of the city. The city's in your hands.

875
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: I've been he actually the president. He was liberal, but

876
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: he'd been a lawyer for the anarchist when they kept

877
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: getting fired. Um, he said, if you want me to

878
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: be another foot soldier in the fire, will quit my job.

879
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: I'll just be another fight. But if I can be

880
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: useful to you as a politician, I will as well. Right,

881
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: So it's a submission, amission and from an elected Borgeo

882
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: politician that like, the city belongs to you, now, to

883
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: the people, and it's up to you what we do next. Right,

884
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: what they did was they founded this. They didn't actually

885
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: sort of go right, it's all anarchists right to salient

886
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: anarchist groups of the CNT and the f AI, the

887
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: Anarchist Federation of Iberia and the National Confederation of Labor.

888
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: He didn't they didn't sort of be like, okay, you

889
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: were on anarchist control. They found out the People's Committee

890
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: of Anti Fascist Militias and they said, this is an

891
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: anti fascist catalonia, right, And then they began to control

892
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: the industries according to the principles of anarcho syndicalism, right,

893
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: which is the idea that the way to move towards

894
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: a more libertarian society under moving from industrial capitalism is

895
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: through industrial unions, right. And they were extremely effective. I

896
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 1: see this discourse a lot on Twitter or on Reddit

897
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: or on places where where um, I don't want to

898
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: just like dismiss people as tankies, but where we're because

899
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: like you know, maybe there's people can can listen and

900
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: we can talk and we can understand each other. But

901
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: where people go on the Internet to talk about politics

902
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: and say that like it's impossible for anarchists to do

903
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: supply chain, it's impossible for anarchists to do logistics, right,

904
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 1: And sometimes I think they think of anarchism as like

905
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: like only able to work in groups of five people

906
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: or something. There's this broad spread attitude in part because

907
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: of like some social attitudes among a lot of American anarchists,

908
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: certainly American anarchists who are very online that like anarchism

909
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: is when you live on a farm with four of

910
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: your friends, right, like that that it's very pastoral, it's

911
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: anti industrial, and a decent amount of American anarchists are.

912
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: It's not uncommon to find people who are like anarcho,

913
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: primitivist or whatever, um. But it is important to note

914
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: that there's a very long anarchist tradition as we're talking

915
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: about now that's deeply industrial. Yes, and like the anarchist

916
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: a right, the anarchist symbol that we all see that

917
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: comes from America. Right. The industrial workers of the world

918
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: come from the United States. The raised fist popular salute

919
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: comes from the IWW goes to Spain. Right, we have

920
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: this long tradition. But yeah, I think a lot of

921
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: American anarchists because it's easier to live and work cooperatively

922
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: in a small group somewhat detached. But what we have

923
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: in Catalonia that we don't have here is the majority

924
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: of the working class committed to an archo syndicalism. Right,

925
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: so people return to work and work very effectively when

926
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: they're not also volunteering also fighting in something like a

927
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: Druti column. Right. Um, these anarchists malicious with which we

928
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: can also talk about because I think they're very interesting. Um.

929
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: So for instance, one example they like, the site is

930
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: the Hispaniol Sweet factory right Spain, Swiss. It's just an

931
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: automobile manufacturers like the GM factory within three days after

932
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: the revolution. And bear in mind that most of them

933
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: have been out shooting at soldiers for most of that time. Right.

934
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: Big thing that they had to deal with was the

935
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: soldiers often us of churches. They would burn the churches

936
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: so like it was an extremely vicious urban battle. They were.

937
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: They had converted their facility to go from producing automobiles

938
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: for rich people at the time right now everyone had

939
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: a car to producing technicals armored cars. Right. And you

940
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: can see them if you google c Anti technicals the

941
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: anti Arca because she's amazing like a Hodgepodge technicals that

942
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: they had, well did these things on and they were

943
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: able to turn those around and produce weapons for the front.

944
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: Another good example to see as castle pistols right to

945
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: us Castle is a famous anarchist leader. Um and Askasso

946
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: was killed in the first day of the revolution when

947
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: they were fighting the Coupe. There weren't there wasn't much

948
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: weapons manufacturing in Catalonia, right, and we're very familiar with

949
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: that from our work on Miamma. And what they did

950
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: was they set up a factory in Tarrassa to make weapons.

951
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: They made copies of ruby pistols actually, but then they

952
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: named them after us Casso, so you can still buy them.

953
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: I sure you can google them, you can find them,

954
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: but these they set up a weapons actory, right, and

955
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: then under anarcho syndicalist principles and the principles of sort

956
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: of unions controlling this production system, unions controlling the supply

957
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: chain system, which let's be honest, they do largely anyway, right,

958
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: Like it's not Tim Apple who buys a circuit board

959
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: for your phone, it's someone else. This is slightly more

960
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: globalized system with with Apple phones. But um, the the

961
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: unions were able to set up and change their production right,

962
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: not just keep doing what they were doing, but also

963
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: pivot without the need for people exercising authority over each other.

964
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: This important understanding because you asked like, how how would

965
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: anarchists contende industrial production? And it's like, well, have you

966
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: ever had a job that it had you work in

967
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: a factory on an assembly line or in some sort

968
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: of other industrial way. Have you ever been a contractor

969
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 1: and had a boss who sucked? Would it have worked

970
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: better if that boss hadn't been there? That's the basic

971
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: that's like the like, it's entirely possible for large groups

972
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: of people to coordinate in a way that is not

973
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: a capitalist system where you're accountable to a shareholder. Right, Like,

974
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: there's there's a number of different ways to do that,

975
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: but there's a long tradition and and in fact, some

976
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: corporations that are still around today and quite large. You

977
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: can look up the mon Dragon Corporation in Spain that

978
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of anarchist principles in their organizing. Um,

979
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: not that like it's an anarchist company or whatever, but like,

980
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: but there's significant, like significant amounts of anarchist theory and

981
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: why that operates the way it does and has been

982
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: significantly successful. Um. There's some other examples, and I think

983
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 1: it's Brazil. Um there's a large like steel corporation and whatnot. Um,

984
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, like there's there's it's not. There's nothing about

985
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: anarchism that means you can't have a factory producing armored cars.

986
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: It just means you're not producing armored cars for the

987
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: profit of the Lockheed Martin Corporation or whatever. Yeah, you're

988
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: producing on the cause because you are fighting in a

989
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: conflict that you hope will liberate other people, right, And

990
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: that is agraby a more important motivation. And then wage labor,

991
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: and certainly they in some cases increase activity, but they

992
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: were able to sustain all the functions of an industrial society.

993
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: And Catalonia was very industrialized, much more so than the

994
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: rest of Spain, right, And that's perhaps why anarchism was

995
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: so so important there. And and yeah, Verry, it doesn't

996
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 1: require the arbitrary exercise of authority for that to happen.

997
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: And like you said, there's plenty of examples of that.

998
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: I think both of us really enjoyed David Grabe's book.

999
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: But this idea that we move from one phase of

1000
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: society to another and that necessitates a different form of

1001
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: political organization just isn't borne out by the historical record.

1002
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: And I think Catalonia is a really good example of that. Yeah.

1003
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: And a further example of that is in a pretty

1004
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: similar time frame you're talking earlier, but not but maybe

1005
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: like less than twenty years earlier, you have an esther

1006
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: mack No and mack Nova in Ukraine, this kind of independent,

1007
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: autonomous anarchist society that is extremely successful in war that

1008
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union does not exist without mock No fighting

1009
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: the whites. Um as as successful easy didn't stopping in

1010
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: advance on on Moscow. And that's a rural that were

1011
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 1: not industrialized, and in fact their anarchism was very much

1012
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: based in kind of the traditional methods of organized rural

1013
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: societies in Ukraine. UM. And you have that a lot

1014
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: in other like you have a lot there are a

1015
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: lot of areas in which anarchism is common in rural

1016
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: areas and it's more of like a state socialism in

1017
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: industrialized areas. But you can have you also have this

1018
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 1: deep history of industrialized anarchism and there's uh, it shows

1019
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: that there's a capability for anarchist principles to function with infrastructure. Yeah.

1020
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: And if you want to look for rural anarchism, and

1021
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: you can look in southern Spain, right is um If

1022
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: you want to look at a small case study of

1023
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: the anarchists of Casas Vias is a great example of that. Right,

1024
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: people can find I'm sure it's free online. Is a

1025
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: pdf now, um, But yes, it doesn't have to just

1026
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: exist in urban or rural society or between the two, right,

1027
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: like whether Druti column went south? Okay, the drug column

1028
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: is an anarchist column. There are a number of other

1029
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: anarchist columns, but this one is the sort of the

1030
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: pre eminent one, the one that was most successful because

1031
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: they tended not to get bogged down as much in

1032
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: fighting in rural environments where they were not skilled, but

1033
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: they were extremely skilled, much more so than the military,

1034
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: and fighting in urban environments, right, So they were very successful.

1035
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: They went to Zaragotha and then fought there. While they

1036
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: were there, they were collectivizing the farms, right, And I'm

1037
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: sure some of that collectivization was forced. I don't want

1038
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: to be like everything was rainbows and unicorns, but it's

1039
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: a war. There's no side in a war whose handstake lane, right,

1040
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: Like that's not minimizing or ignoring it, it's just stating that,

1041
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 1: Like you you have to sometimes talk about the broad

1042
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: strokes of what's going on with without pretending to whitewash

1043
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm certain ugly things happened there as well.

1044
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and like yeah, you say, ugly things happen

1045
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: in war, and I think if you if you want

1046
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: that not to happen. Maybe I don't know you live

1047
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: on the internet, but like, um, the dirt decorum then

1048
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: goes to it right in the seat at Madrid, which

1049
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: was the also the first conflict in the International Brigades,

1050
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: the first battle of the International Brigades fourteen. It was

1051
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: a very successful battle for the Republic. It was a

1052
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: bottle that allowed the republic. If we look at the

1053
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: two battles that allow the Republic to exist, right, it's

1054
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: conflict in Barcelona, the battle for Barcelona, the first days

1055
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: of the Civil War, and it's a battle in Madrid

1056
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: right now. Madrid is not as much of an anarchist city,

1057
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 1: is a city with anarchism, but it's also more salient

1058
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: other socialism. Um. So when the Drouty column arrives right

1059
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: and takes part in the combat there, because they have

1060
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: been successful, because they're very good urban warfare, and a

1061
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,959
Speaker 1: lot of the people in the Druty column didn't want

1062
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: do Routy to go, but he decided it was important

1063
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: to go as part of this popular front, right to

1064
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: fight this this huge push of Spain's most professional soldiers. Right,

1065
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: and that's where Derouty. You can read. I know somebody's

1066
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: working on an unlike a graphic novel about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1067
00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: and you should give them your money if you have

1068
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: some but able path. His book about Druty is very good.

1069
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: It's an amazing book because you turn out the line

1070
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: of notes and he's like, oh, yeah, this book has

1071
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: taken me a long time to write because I was

1072
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: involved in a resistance against Franco and spent twenty five

1073
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: years in jail, solitary confinement. But what a chad. But

1074
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: so you can read about Druty there, and Druty dies

1075
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: in the Battle for Madrid. But it's also kind of

1076
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: important to look at Spain is effective anakast, Spain is

1077
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: effective in fighting fascism. Um, what stops it being effective?

1078
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: To my mind, it is not anarchist principles military organization.

1079
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: The other thing that was that was impressive about Druty

1080
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: Column was that they had embedded army loyal army officers

1081
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: and they listened to them and they learned from them

1082
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: and they said, Okay, we don't good at some stuff,

1083
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: not good other stuff. We will learn. Other anarchists didn't.

1084
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,839
Speaker 1: It didn't tend to do as well. Yeah, this is

1085
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: a common misconception because the anarchists are very much against hierarchy, um,

1086
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 1: which doesn't mean being against professionalism or competence, right. Like,

1087
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: it's the idea that like the hierarchy, For example, that

1088
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 1: led several million young boys to get machine gun in

1089
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 1: World War One because the people who were in charge

1090
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: of them had not learned how machine guns functioned. Um,

1091
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: is was a problem. But if you've got someone who

1092
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: has been training their entire life as a soldier and

1093
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: understands very effectively how artillery functions and how machine guns function,

1094
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 1: and because they have professionalized in that, it's not against

1095
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: anarchist principles to listen to that person in a gunfight. Yeah, yeah, expertise,

1096
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not Yeah, it's not incompatible with liberty, right,

1097
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: and so yeah, they were very willing to listen to that.

1098
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: And in the same way they would be in a like. Again,

1099
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: these people have worked in factories, right, they understand that

1100
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: you don't know how to use a lathe and you

1101
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: exert your liberty to use a lathe, and your hand's

1102
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: gonna end up in a lathe when I when I

1103
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: go to a doctor and say, I'm am, I have

1104
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: gotten this horrible infected wound. What do I do about it?

1105
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: I am not yielding to a hierarchy. I am. I

1106
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: am accepting their expertise, you know. Yeah, yeah, I think

1107
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: sometimes people. I think your listeners are much better informed

1108
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: than this Germany. But people confuse anarchism with a predilegtion

1109
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: for chaos and violence, and it isn't that right. It's

1110
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: just it's a desire to to be more free and

1111
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: to not be controlled. And I have a boo on

1112
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: your neck. And but to to wind up that thought,

1113
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: like the reason that Spain that the Republican Spain starts

1114
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: to lose is not because there are anarchists. And you

1115
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: will definitely see this discourse on the internet. Many people

1116
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: will tell me that I'm mistaken about it. It's my

1117
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: fucking degree, But um yeah, I would argue that it's

1118
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: because the whole Western world that did quote unquote democracy

1119
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: is at the end of them, right, Yeah, this is

1120
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: like there's there's this. We talked about this a bit

1121
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 1: in the episodes we did on it. But like there's

1122
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: this whole argument that I'm sure you'll get into more

1123
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: between like the socialists, the communists, you know, and the anarchists.

1124
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: But a huge part of it, probably most of it,

1125
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: is that, like the fascists are getting guns from other

1126
00:56:55,719 --> 00:57:00,280
Speaker 1: fascists and tanks and aircraft often flown by professional ash

1127
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 1: just pilots who are training for what's going to become

1128
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: World War two, whereas Republican Spain has some old bulk

1129
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: action rifles that got smuggled in through France. Yeah, and

1130
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: some mosens. It was sold by America to Russia, from

1131
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: Russia to Mexico and then from Mexico back to Spain.

1132
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: Right like um, and and yeah, these old mouses are

1133
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:20,919
Speaker 1: all well talks about that are rusted and they can't

1134
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: open the bolt after they fired them and they reload

1135
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: their ammunition and it's ship. But yeah, and on the

1136
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: other side, right, like the coup doesn't work. How does

1137
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: the Army of Africa get from Africa to Spain. It

1138
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: doesn't swim, right, how do these generals get from Africa

1139
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: to Spain airlifted by other fascist nations? Right? We don't

1140
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: see that, right, Actually, France wanted to sell planes to

1141
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: the Republic and the early days of the war that

1142
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: Britain pretty much put the kibosh on it. And there's

1143
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: an interesting parallel with what you're seeing in Ukraine right now,

1144
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: because in Ukraine you have a republican government, um, in

1145
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: a military that has a fairly wide selection. Jake camerhanters

1146
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: posted like a vegan at streamist who's fighting on the

1147
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: front lines of the because it's like, yeah, there's a

1148
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: whole bunch of different ideological tendencies fighting on behalf of

1149
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: the broadly Ukrainian side. They're including some very nasty ones. Um,

1150
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: but you're kind of seeing what happens when a fascist

1151
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: power invades a country like that to stop a republic

1152
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: and democratic powers send them the most advanced weapons on

1153
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: the planet, right, which is all it would have taken

1154
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: to roll back fascism in Spain. And then perhaps you know,

1155
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: there were a lot of German Italian exiles fighting in Spain,

1156
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: right because the Second Republic had relatively liberal, silent policies

1157
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: and they knew the only way to stop fashion Italy

1158
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: in Germany was to roll a bank in Spain and

1159
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: keep going right. I often have this, and I've had

1160
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: this as we've reput it on me an more, this

1161
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: weird thought of like I'll be reading about the Spanish

1162
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: Civil War in my office and I'll look at my

1163
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: gun collection. Although if I took every if I had,

1164
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: if I could go back in time with everything I

1165
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: have in my house, all of the m O and guns,

1166
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: there are a couple of battles that might have been

1167
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: turned around by just that. Because while for one thing,

1168
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: because modern semi automatic arms are much more effective than

1169
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: bold action rifles. But just like the level of armament

1170
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: that those people had was um that there were eighteenth

1171
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: century armies better equipped for combat. Yeah, I mean you

1172
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: see people with muscle loaders and stuff in the Spanish

1173
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: Civil War, right, And then the only place they can

1174
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: term for arms is the Soviet Union. Right. And they

1175
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: don't just get arms, they also get these generals, right,

1176
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: who are quote unquoite advising. They're not, they're commanding units.

1177
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Soviet politicking at play, right, and

1178
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: as much as anything. And you can read like um,

1179
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: like Peter Carroll's book on the Abraham Lincoln Brigades Brigade

1180
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: UH Battalion. Sorry, they want a brigade that will give

1181
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: you a better idea of like exactly how this strict

1182
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: authoritarian communist control really sacked the spirit out of the

1183
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: republic Um. And you can see this in May of seven, right,

1184
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: which is what which or Well writes about in his

1185
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: book Right the May Day. When we see a conflict

1186
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: between the non Stalinist communist they weren't Trotskyist to pum right,

1187
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: very often portrayed to trot to Trusky himself, like you

1188
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: can see the letters that he wrote to them where

1189
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: he had thrown disagreements with them if you care to look. Um.

1190
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: But we see this conflict, the shooting war right between

1191
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: the anarchists and the non Stalinist comunist Understanish communists. And

1192
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: what comes out of that is this idea among people

1193
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: on the libertarian left, its broad spectrum of libertarian leftism

1194
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: that we saw in Spain, but it's not really worth

1195
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: fighting for the republic or for the fascists, because either

1196
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: way we're just going to have the boot on our neck. Right.

1197
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: The secret police, I say, were like the secret police

1198
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: spent far, far, far more time going after anarchists in

1199
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: the Republican Army than they did after spies. Oh no, really,

1200
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: the authoritarian left spent more of their time fighting anarchists

1201
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: than the fat wild. Yeah, crazy is it? And it's

1202
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: never happened again. We learned from it. We moved on,

1203
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: we've become better people. Yeah, yeah, it's great, We're we're

1204
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: fine now, we've fixed it. For a lot of the

1205
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: people fighting for the republic, Right, what are you fighting for?

1206
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: And I think that's important that we remember that even

1207
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: in times when things are bad, right, you have to

1208
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: think about what things should be like you have to

1209
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: try and model that in what you're doing now on

1210
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 1: an economic level, when you're talking about like they come

1211
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 1: in they collectivize these farms. There's like anarchists, like the

1212
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: anarchists in large chunks and like in Catalonian in particular,

1213
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: are kind of running what at the time as a

1214
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: fairly modern industrial economy. How does that? How does that work? Like,

1215
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: do do you have any kind of like overall state,

1216
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: like during the period of time where you know they

1217
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: had reasonable control and also weren't completely overwhelmed with the fighting,

1218
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: How did it function? Yeah? You kind of have a state, right,

1219
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: you have this sort of people's committee anti factism, militious

1220
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: but Uh, not really, because things things are somewhat chaotic.

1221
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: Rights on the states, we would maybe understand it now.

1222
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: So what we have instead is is anarcho syndicalism. Right,

1223
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: these unions going to other unions and organizing among themselves. Right,

1224
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: Like you know, the steel workers need X from the miners, right,

1225
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: the miners, then the the tube makers need extra the

1226
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: steel workers and the gun company need X from the

1227
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: from the tube makers, right, And so organizing along industrial

1228
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: union levels allows things to continue. That allows the trains

1229
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: and trams to continue, allows them to continue manufacturing munitions. Right.

1230
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: So it's it's an archo syndicalism, it is. It's a

1231
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: type of libertarian leftism. And then we see these collective

1232
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: or sort of cooperative I should say, farming arrangements, right,

1233
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: where again people people are farming, people are sort of

1234
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,479
Speaker 1: joining together their industrial small holdings and then delivering those,

1235
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: contributing those to the city to the war effort. And

1236
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: there's something, as you see in Ukraine right, relatively special

1237
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: that happens in these times of conflict where people are

1238
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: I think more willing to just step aside from the

1239
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: a and I think that's always been that was a

1240
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: thing for the Spanish working class for a long time.

1241
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: But to step aside from the accumulation of stuff, right

1242
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: from the accumulation of individual goods and wealth, and to

1243
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: say like, yeah, well, let's all get stuck in together.

1244
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: And I think that helped to allow that to happen,

1245
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: helped to allow it to continue. But yeah, these organizations

1246
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: between unions and collectives worked, right, they functioned. You can't

1247
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: argue that they didn't work. The Republican Army didn't starve

1248
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: in a week or ran out of fuel and things, right,

1249
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: These these anarchist columns were able to travel from Barcelona

1250
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 1: to the Agostina and from the Agossa back to Madrid

1251
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: like that. That that doesn't happen if if you're incapable

1252
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: of organizing. Right. So in the factories, these people had

1253
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: already been organizing together, right, They were on strike often

1254
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: right there. They knew how to. They had an existing

1255
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: system for organizing things because they already organized to pay

1256
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: strike funds. They already organized to look after other union

1257
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: other parts of the C and T when they were

1258
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: out right, they organized to have policy statements on various things.

1259
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: So they had these existing means to organize. They just

1260
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: didn't have or alretis told people what to do. They

1261
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: knew how to what to go to the side, what

1262
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, I had this beautiful moment during the

1263
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: uprisings where I was in a city, UM, and I

1264
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: was hanging out with members of a medical collective and

1265
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 1: the building that they were in there was a couple

1266
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: of thousand square feet of they were producing by assembly

1267
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: line kim wipe's for clearing mace out of your eyes. UM.

1268
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: They were producing like I fax medical kits. They had

1269
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: racks of body armor that had been donated or purchased

1270
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: with donated funds UM. And it was all it was

1271
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: a substantial amount of equipment that was being and and

1272
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: respirators and stuff that was being organized as symboled, put together,

1273
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: UM distributed, putting people's hands, put in the hands of

1274
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: people who were going out and utilizing it on a

1275
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: regular basis. UM. And it was being done like with

1276
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: within the principles of kind of like like a number

1277
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 1: of things can be organized that way. It's it is

1278
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: it is handling the collection, the distribution um of of

1279
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 1: of equipment and the collection disbursement of funds like for

1280
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: potentially like thousands and thousands of people. Um, that's perfectly

1281
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: doable under anarchist principles, and anarchists have done that kind

1282
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: of thing a number of times in the world. Yeah,

1283
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: Like if you look at the example of the soup

1284
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: kitchens right at proletarian dinas or restaurants they called them. Right,

1285
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 1: So in in Barcelona, a Madrid, they took over the

1286
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: writs right and and sourced food from rural anarchists to

1287
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: to feed people, right, rather than saying like, oh you

1288
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: know you have to buy feard, you have to buy food.

1289
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: You have to buy food. You come here and anyone

1290
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:40,919
Speaker 1: can eat if you're hungry, right, and yeah, you see

1291
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: people doing that. Look at the unit that we we

1292
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: spoke about Miama, right, the Crenny generation c Army. They

1293
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: those guys they didn't have like you know, no one

1294
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: was wearing rank right now one was a general or

1295
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: a captain or or a sergeant. Right, they talked and

1296
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 1: to our point before by expertise, some people we found

1297
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: out are the person we were talking to, Zara who

1298
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: was who was killed. Um was seen as a commander

1299
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: by people because of what they wrote about him after

1300
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: he died, but he never talked about himself that way. No.

1301
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 1: In fact, he told us, right that if some people

1302
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: knew more, they've been in the fight for longer, they

1303
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 1: knew the terrain, and then we listen to them and

1304
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 1: they have a bit more way in that conversation. But

1305
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 1: we all just decide together what we what we want

1306
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: to do m and that that works, right, Like, because

1307
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: those guys were very well respected right among the the

1308
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: anti coup forces in Mihama because of their willingness to fight,

1309
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 1: their effectiveness, and those guys have a good battlefield record

1310
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: against the government troops. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, And like

1311
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't just again, like it's not just five guys fighting, right,

1312
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: it's also they were able and and in Mihama we

1313
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: still see this with like the underground and they called

1314
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 1: the Development Committee LS and the people who are they

1315
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 1: were the people who did the shield walls and that

1316
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And people will be familiar with the

1317
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: George Floyd uprising for them, they went underground of their

1318
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: developing ways to make weapons now, right, so they're the

1319
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 1: people you'll see making three D printed guns. So the

1320
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: people you'll see making improvised explosive devices, fertilized bombs, working

1321
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: out how to make handmade to two rifles we've seen

1322
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: right like and again they don't. They don't need someone

1323
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: in charge for that, right And in times of difficulty

1324
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: we revert to taking care of one another and getting

1325
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: things done. We we don't contrary to I think what

1326
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 1: what we're led to believe, sort of revert to we

1327
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: don't need like a strong leader, dear leader. We are

1328
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: capable of looking after one another outside of authority in

1329
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 1: the state. Yeah. And it also stands to the point

1330
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 1: that like accepting the authority of someone with expertise in

1331
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: certain situations, like the fundamental way in which effective military

1332
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: is organized tends to involve the existence of an n

1333
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: c O corps, right you, Every military that is good

1334
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 1: at fighting has it in c O core. Part of

1335
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: why Russia has acquitted itself so unbelievably poorly and the

1336
01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: fighting in Ukraine is that that that does not functionally

1337
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: exist in the Russian military. Um. It is absolutely the

1338
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: basic idea of an n c O COREP is that

1339
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: with among fighting units, there should be dudes whose job

1340
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: and I say dudes in the non gendered sense, there

1341
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: should be people whose job is to make the functioning

1342
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: of that fighting unit be their whole life, and they

1343
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 1: stay at that job for a long time. They don't

1344
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: just like move up and ship. They're just they're there

1345
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 1: to keep that unit functioning. Um. And from the perspective

1346
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: of like someone who is an anarchist, I mean as

1347
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: an anarchist who's been shot at a number of times.

1348
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 1: When I'm hanging out and there's like some grizzled ass

1349
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: fucking veteran in the unit I'm embedded with, I'm gonna

1350
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 1: do whatever that fucker says, right absolutely, because you're crazy,

1351
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: not too, because that's just good sense. It's the same

1352
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 1: thing as like if you're in deep bush or whatever

1353
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: with somebody who knows wilderness survival and they tell you

1354
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: don't eat that plant, or they tell you know, this

1355
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: is a bad place to camp for this reason or whatever.

1356
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: You listen to them, like that's again, and you know,

1357
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 1: factories function the same way. Having been on building sites,

1358
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: they function this same way. Somebody tells you don't do

1359
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 1: that it's a bad idea, and they clearly have been

1360
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: doing it more than you. You listen to them. That's

1361
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: not accepting that you have a boss. That's accepting that

1362
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: you have people who are more experienced and competent in

1363
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,440
Speaker 1: certain things. Yeah, And if you look at what ineffective

1364
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 1: armies sometimes have, it it's it's it's it's in the

1365
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: office of core. Right, it's people who are in charge

1366
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: but maybe you ought not to be, but it's because

1367
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 1: of their status with their wealth or something else. Right.

1368
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: And you see like very effective fighting in the anarchist units, right,

1369
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: with men and women, and actually people who would were

1370
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 1: non binary as well, or people who would call non

1371
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: binary didn't call themselves out then. Um, but um, we

1372
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: see that because they were willing to elect officers, right,

1373
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: but then listen to them. And it wasn't it was

1374
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 1: listened to not obey, right, But but that was an

1375
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: extremely effective way of doing things. Yeah. I was having

1376
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 1: a conversation with a body of mine who was a

1377
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 1: marine and saw some very heavy combat in Iraq years

1378
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: ago about like the way in which certain anarchist units

1379
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: had worked over time, and talked about the fact that

1380
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: they elected their leaders. And he was like, well, we

1381
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 1: didn't do that obviously, but there were people you knew

1382
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: you shouldn't listen to and people you did, and you

1383
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: understood who you wanted calling the shots when bullets were flying, right, like,

1384
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: regardless of what the actual hierarchy was. It's just like

1385
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, in the U. S. Military, you have a

1386
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 1: platoon leader who was an officer who has been to college,

1387
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: and you have a platoon sergeant, and they do somewhat

1388
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: different things. But every reasonable person who has interfaced with

1389
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: those units will agree that like any good platoon leader,

1390
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: even though they're an officer and a higher rank, it

1391
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: is gonna listen to whatever the fucking platoon sergeant says

1392
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: because they've been doing that job a lot along. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

1393
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 1: you're a fool and you're arrogant if you don't right,

1394
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 1: and the arrogance will find you out during it in

1395
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 1: a difficult situation pretty quickly. So yeah, I think it's

1396
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: important to look to look at those anarchists militaries, right.

1397
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 1: And then there are lots and lots of accounts of

1398
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: the of the anarchists and the Spanish Civil War. Julian

1399
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 1: Casanova's book is one of my favorites that people want

1400
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,680
Speaker 1: to read one and married book Junichurse has written to

1401
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: the Spanish anarchists as well, so they're there are lot

1402
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 1: of books you can read about, and some of them

1403
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 1: micro case studies are really fun. Right, if you want

1404
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: to look at like what is it like to live

1405
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 1: on an anarchist farm in ninety six in rural Catalonian

1406
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,799
Speaker 1: Yale or something like that, like, and I would encourage

1407
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: people to read them with an open mind, and I

1408
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: understand that like the world was different than than it

1409
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 1: is today, but to look at those historical examples and

1410
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: realize that, like, what people were doing them was fundamentally

1411
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: the same. Right, they were trying to take care of

1412
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: each other and make the world better for their children,

1413
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: and they didn't want the boot on their neck, and

1414
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 1: they were all prepared to work together to do that,

1415
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 1: and that that was an extremely functional way. And what

1416
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: didn't work for them was being controlled by people from

1417
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 1: the SO Union who maybe didn't understand their struggle because

1418
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: they often volt it wasn't worth fighting anymore. And that's

1419
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: true for communists to actually, right, Like if you look

1420
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 1: at the American communists who went and fought, and they

1421
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: were overwhelmingly Communists who went and fought for the for

1422
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 1: the International Brigades. The International Brigades were not the public's

1423
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 1: army per se. They were the comm Interns army. And

1424
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: if there is one group of people who was hated

1425
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: more than anyone else. It was commissars, right, these people

1426
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 1: who were sort of there to enforce this very strict

1427
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: interpretation of what they saw as Marxist Leninism. So even

1428
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: those people right who were communists might have had a

1429
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: more slightly more libertarian understanding, didn't really take that well

1430
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 1: to being bossed around and lost a lot of their

1431
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: wills what they were fighting for because of that. Right.

1432
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: Cecil Lbis book is another really good book about that.

1433
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: If you want to read that, well, I think that's

1434
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 1: going to bring us to an end here, James, you

1435
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 1: have a book about the Spanish Civil War that you

1436
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 1: should probably plug here. Yeah. Yeah, it's called The Popular

1437
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,600
Speaker 1: Front and the Learner Olympics. It's about the anti for

1438
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: Olympics that were held as an alternative to the Barslona Olympic.

1439
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: Tics explains how the Popular Front used sport to build

1440
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: an anti fascist identity in Catalonia, and it used sport

1441
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: to bring together anti fascists from around the world. The

1442
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: Olympics actually happened on the nineteenth of July, which is

1443
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 1: the same data civil War startists, and they never they

1444
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: never occurred, but many of the people who went to

1445
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: take part in the Olympics, decided to stay and fight,

1446
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,679
Speaker 1: and so that's what my books about. It's quite expensive

1447
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 1: and you can I understand that people can't afford it.

1448
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: That's fine. I keep saying I'm working on another book,

1449
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: but I'm not working very hard or very fast. Yeah. Yeah,

1450
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: look it up and someone's probably bootlegged it. Actually, the

1451
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: book is often free at universities and other libraries. So

1452
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: yet to go to your library and I'll see them

1453
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: to get it. And uh where else can people find you?

1454
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: On the internet? At James Stout on Twitter, same thing

1455
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 1: on Patreon. Those are my two main things. You can

1456
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,760
Speaker 1: find my writing a muck rack to google my name. Yeah,

1457
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 1: and again help us, Daniel, please bleep that out for

1458
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: the sake of James immigration cases. And yeah, that's good.

1459
01:13:54,240 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: That's that's an episode. Yeah. Despite it being past midnight,

1460
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: you can still see through the dense forest. The moonlit

1461
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: sky combined with the urban light pollution, make traversing the

1462
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:22,680
Speaker 1: messy woods easier than you thought. You relieve that you

1463
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 1: don't have to use your head lamp, which could have

1464
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:29,200
Speaker 1: drawn unwanted attention. The company of a few of your

1465
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 1: queer friends makes the walk through the confusing woods less intimidating.

1466
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,679
Speaker 1: Dressed in gray and camo, you make your way through

1467
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 1: overgrown trails and hop over a small creek. Save for

1468
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,799
Speaker 1: the occasional train, all you can hear is the croaking

1469
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 1: of frogs and chirping of cicadas, crickets, and grasshoppers. The

1470
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: night air you breathe through your mask is noticeably cleaner

1471
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 1: than the air from downtown that you spent months riding

1472
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: in during not even counting the tear gas in the air.

1473
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: As you and your pals slowly trek through the forest,

1474
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 1: your feet squish into the grassy, wet ground. You avoid

1475
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 1: the area's caked and clay and stick to the cover

1476
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: of trees, brush and the soft wetland. After a short

1477
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:16,719
Speaker 1: walk and with only a few wrong turns, you reach

1478
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 1: an artificial break in the embrace of the forest. You

1479
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: look at your masked up friends, and for a brief

1480
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 1: moment during the moonlight night, you can't quite tell who's who.

1481
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: Which is a good thing, you suppose. Everyone exchanges glances,

1482
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: but no one says anything. Everyone already knows what to do.

1483
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: As you approach the barren mound of dirt, you get

1484
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: angry a jarring crack in the beauty and mysterious allure

1485
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 1: of the forest. You're no longer in the woods. You're

1486
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: at the site of destruction, a clear cut that seeks

1487
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 1: to expand its radius. Without the tree coverage, you can

1488
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 1: see the harsh blue light of LEDs in the distance.

1489
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: There among the mounds of dirt and fallen trees are

1490
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: several unguarded machines of destruction. With no cell phones in sight.

1491
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,639
Speaker 1: You and your friends get to live in the moment

1492
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: your agenda becomes the sound of shattering glass in the

1493
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: cold night. Hammers meet windows and serrated knives cut the

1494
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 1: inner tubing of bulldozers and excavators. The undoing of the

1495
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: mechanical monsters that have violated the forest has begun. No

1496
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: tool of the evil doers goes unharmed. Rattling cans of

1497
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 1: spray paint leave antagonistic and proclamatory messages with rebellious hiss

1498
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,799
Speaker 1: for those who intend to continue destroying the forest. Defend

1499
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 1: the forest, no cops city, no Hollywood dystopia. In little time,

1500
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: the light, pollution, moonlight, and distant LEDs are accompanied by

1501
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:53,720
Speaker 1: a bright orange blaze emanating from the machines, lighting up

1502
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 1: the area around the sad mound of dirt. A splash

1503
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 1: of gasoline acts as the extension of the blood that

1504
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: fuels the burning fire in your hearts that became a

1505
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 1: light with the rage felt at the sight of the

1506
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 1: decimated woods. By the time the fire department took notice,

1507
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:13,719
Speaker 1: you've already disappeared into the night, like a specter, fading

1508
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: like the curling black smoke that drifted into the midnight sky.

1509
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: As you exit the forest, you go about as if

1510
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: what happened tonight never did. You never tell a soul,

1511
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:28,760
Speaker 1: You never talk about it with your masked up queer friends,

1512
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 1: since they were never there either. Details fade in your

1513
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 1: memory like a dream, but deep down you still remember

1514
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 1: the feeling, the peak moment of true freedom. When the

1515
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 1: fire engulfed the machines. It was upon broken, uneasable machines

1516
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: that the fires were extinguished, laying incinerated the excavators and

1517
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:53,839
Speaker 1: bulldozers who are rendered immobile worthless. Piles of trash. Fires

1518
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,839
Speaker 1: are only temporary and can be undone. But the connection

1519
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 1: between those who live in a forest, who breathes air,

1520
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 1: and who drink its water filtered through its wetlands, is

1521
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:07,679
Speaker 1: not so easily broken. Any further attempts that destroying the forest,

1522
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 1: we met with a similar response. The forest was here

1523
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 1: long before us, and we'll be here long after. You

1524
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,719
Speaker 1: and your friends, among many other anonymous strangers will see

1525
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: to that. Welcome. Took it up in here a podcast

1526
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 1: about things falling apart and how we can put them

1527
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 1: back together, And today we'll be spending that entire spectrum.

1528
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,679
Speaker 1: I'm Garrison Davison. The story I just read isn't merely

1529
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 1: a fictional one. It was inspired by over a year's

1530
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 1: worth of communicators and report backs coming out of the

1531
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: Defend the Forest movement in Atlanta, Georgia. So excuse the

1532
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: pretentious poetry of anarchists and speak. In early one, it

1533
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,080
Speaker 1: was real to the public that mainly four entities, namely

1534
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 1: the City of Atlanta, the Atlanta Police Foundation, de Cab County,

1535
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 1: and Black Hall Studios, had dual plans to devastate two

1536
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 1: complementary sections of the South Atlanta for Rest. The City

1537
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,640
Speaker 1: of Atlanta and Police Foundation plans are to turn the

1538
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: area of the forest known as the Old Atlanta Prison Farm,

1539
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 1: into the largest police training facility in the country, complete

1540
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:16,719
Speaker 1: with a mock city helipad and bomb range. Meanwhile, Entrenchment

1541
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 1: Creek of a public forest land will be traded by

1542
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 1: de Cab County to Black Hall Movie Studios to clear

1543
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,480
Speaker 1: cut the land on which they plan to build America's

1544
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:30,560
Speaker 1: largest sound stage. This project lies at a horrific intersection

1545
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: of police militarization, gentrification, copaganda, and exasperating the local effects

1546
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: of worsening climate change by clear cutting hundreds of acres

1547
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 1: of forest. In the last year, activists, ghosts like saboteurs,

1548
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: and open source researchers have vultraals together into an anonymous

1549
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 1: and diverse movement that's brought the plan to destroy the

1550
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 1: forest out of the shadows of secretive, backdoor corporate deals

1551
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: and into the public spotlight, forming the Defend the Atlanta

1552
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,240
Speaker 1: Forest move mint that's consistently been able to get ahead

1553
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,719
Speaker 1: of police and media by breaking news about the forest

1554
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 1: destruction plans and setting the terms of engagement and what's

1555
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 1: deemed as acceptable direct action, all well being able to

1556
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 1: foster relationship with the woods that they are defending. I've

1557
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: been really interested in this project since I heard about

1558
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: it last summer. Along with the intersection of police militarization

1559
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 1: and climate change on the flip side. There's this unique

1560
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: intersection of urban city protest and classic forest echo defense.

1561
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,759
Speaker 1: The mix of tactics have produced a movement unlike anything

1562
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 1: really seen before here in the States. Not to get

1563
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:37,560
Speaker 1: ahead of myself, but ever since last fall when the

1564
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 1: Atlanta City Council approved the plan to build the largest

1565
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:44,000
Speaker 1: police training facility in the country, dubbed cops City by

1566
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 1: activists due to the plans to build a mini version

1567
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 1: of Atlanta within the facility to practice urban combat. But

1568
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:54,839
Speaker 1: I figured that I would eventually find myself inside the forest.

1569
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 1: So this last April, when an opportunity presented itself to

1570
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: travel to Atlanta, stay in the wood and talk with

1571
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: some forest defenders, I couldnot pass it up. I packed

1572
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 1: a tent, sleeping bag, and some microfilms and made my

1573
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 1: way to Georgia. The first thing I noticed upon arriving

1574
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 1: in Atlanta is that when they say Atlanta is a

1575
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: city in a forest, they really do mean it. The

1576
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 1: amount of continuous tree coverage throughout the city was astonishing,

1577
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:22,719
Speaker 1: and that's coming from someone who lives in Portland, Oregon.

1578
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 1: As it turns out the city of Atlanta actually has

1579
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 1: the highest amount of tree canopy of any city in

1580
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 1: the United States. On top of the citywide tree coverage,

1581
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 1: there is the South River Forest, which makes up the

1582
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: largest continuous section of woods and serves as Atlanta's first

1583
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 1: line of defense in the face of rapidly accelerating climate change.

1584
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 1: The forest in southeast Atlanta is said to function as

1585
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 1: the lungs of the city. The canopy offers shade and

1586
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 1: traps carbon, with some of the more heavily forted areas

1587
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 1: acting as wetlands that filter rain water and prevent flooding

1588
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 1: by collecting runoff. It's Marsh is one of the last

1589
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 1: breeding grounds for a lot of amphibians in the region,

1590
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 1: as well as an important migration site for wading birds,

1591
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: and serves as a home to a lot of local wildlife.

1592
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: Nearly five acres of this forest is under threat by

1593
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police Foundation and Black Hall Studios. If plans

1594
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 1: succeed to develop this precious strip of forest into the

1595
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 1: massive police compound and adjacent movie sound stage, the entire

1596
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 1: metropolitan area will face much harsher effects of climate change,

1597
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 1: including worsening floods, higher temperatures, and less clean, tree filtered air,

1598
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:37,799
Speaker 1: Not to mention the increased police militarization and gentrification. Speaking

1599
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 1: of the second thing I noticed once I arrived in

1600
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: Atlanta is how much gentrification is currently underway. The amount

1601
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 1: of hideous five of our one apartments that are being

1602
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:51,400
Speaker 1: built was impossible to overlook. And as we'll see, the

1603
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:54,919
Speaker 1: way police feed off gentrification, which feeds off the corporate

1604
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:58,440
Speaker 1: and movie making sides of Atlanta, is not merely a coincidence.

1605
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 1: Last fall in of view to Jamal from the Atlanta

1606
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,919
Speaker 1: chapter of the Community Movement Builders, a Black lad collective

1607
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 1: of community residents and activists serving poor, working class Black communities.

1608
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: They focus on responding to encroaching gentrification, displacement, and over policing.

1609
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 1: Here's what Jamal had to say on the intersection of

1610
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: issues owering around the Cops City and defend the Forest project.

1611
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: Just to piggyback off of that, I think it's extremely

1612
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:28,559
Speaker 1: important for us to recognize the connections between all these things. Right, Like,

1613
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:33,839
Speaker 1: Cops City is a perfect blend of UM environmental justice issues,

1614
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: uh just flat out racism, police brutality, and also gentrification. Right,

1615
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:41,280
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a mistake that they're building

1616
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 1: this Cops City right at this moment when UM Atlanta

1617
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 1: is also becoming the for the first time. And I

1618
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 1: don't know how many decades, um non no longer majority

1619
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: black city because neighborhoods like pittsburgher we're located out of

1620
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:58,679
Speaker 1: and all across Southwest and West Atlanta have becoming more

1621
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 1: like the black people have been being displaced from me,

1622
01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,600
Speaker 1: from our communities, right UM. So a perfect example is

1623
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 1: that with my organization, Community Movement Builders, we UH purchased

1624
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 1: we've we've been doing work in the pittsburghighborhood for a while,

1625
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 1: but we purchased a community house in the neighborhood about

1626
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 1: six years ago. Right at that point, we purchased the

1627
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 1: house for fifty thou dollars, right UM. Pittsburgh has been

1628
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 1: historically uh poorn working class community. It was uh it

1629
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,240
Speaker 1: was founded as a black community, which is different from

1630
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 1: a lot of other other neighbors in Atlanta. Was founded

1631
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 1: as a black community from UH freed Africans UM who

1632
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:38,000
Speaker 1: were trying to escape some of the more rural areas

1633
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 1: of the South and found work in Haven in the

1634
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh neighborhood of Atlanta. And it's been a poor and

1635
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 1: working class black community ever since. But now UM, because

1636
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: of the gentrification has been going on. How a house

1637
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 1: just sold, maybe about a month and a half ago

1638
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: for seven dred and fifty thousand dollars, So the person's

1639
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 1: house at fifty thousand dollars six years ago. A house

1640
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: just sold, um, just a few walks away from that

1641
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 1: house for seven fifty thousand dollars. Now, it's not every

1642
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:06,599
Speaker 1: house is selling for that amount, but that just shows

1643
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: you the rate of gentrification that's happening. And then and

1644
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 1: we know that cops are on this necessary part of

1645
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 1: being able to defer to displace people from gentrifying communities.

1646
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,719
Speaker 1: They play an integral role within gentrification. Yeah, I'm just wondering,

1647
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 1: does any of you have anything like even like anecdotal

1648
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:25,720
Speaker 1: experience with like basically Marvel and Men, tons of other

1649
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 1: industries like invading Atlanta. How is that like affected specifically,

1650
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 1: Like you already talked about how how you know, increased

1651
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:34,880
Speaker 1: the increase in the film industry and other things. Has

1652
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, has made more gentrification? But like, how has

1653
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 1: that even affected just like like other types of stuff,

1654
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: including like policing, Like has has this type of like

1655
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:46,640
Speaker 1: growth um affected people or people you know in in

1656
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:49,400
Speaker 1: other ways? Yeah? Absolutely. So I think a lot of

1657
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 1: this kind of got I won't say it got started,

1658
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:54,720
Speaker 1: but a lot of it went even uh you know,

1659
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 1: escalated when Tyler Perry Studio opened up in East Point. Um,

1660
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 1: and a lot of people, you know, we're praising. It's like, oh,

1661
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 1: look at this. Uh you know, it's a black man.

1662
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 1: I was able to move down and be able to

1663
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,720
Speaker 1: start this thing within Hollywood. But no, it's all that

1664
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: is one of the things that also spurred the gentrification

1665
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 1: in East Point, which is you might not be familiar

1666
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: with Atlanta, but East Point is like literally right next

1667
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 1: to Atlanta, so it's a lot of it's it's really

1668
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: close proximity. And so that also spurs over to the

1669
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:26,719
Speaker 1: gentrification here in the city as well. Um. Property values

1670
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 1: have gone up since that point, even more. Um. Even

1671
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,680
Speaker 1: my tax bill has gone up a thousand dollars a

1672
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: year per a year um for the past like three years. Right. UM.

1673
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, it's it's definitely we definitely see the

1674
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:45,439
Speaker 1: effects and you know, and just talking to you know,

1675
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 1: we do we do do a lot of work around gentrification. UM.

1676
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: And I think this is in tandem with you know,

1677
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 1: because we have COVID nineteen out here now with the

1678
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: eviction moratorium which has now been you know, denied um

1679
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: with by the Supreme Court. Um. But even when there

1680
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 1: wasn't vision moratorium, there were still people that were getting

1681
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 1: invaded from their homes. And I think all of this

1682
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 1: in tandem when Atlanta specifically has already been going through

1683
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:13,679
Speaker 1: a gentrification crisis and um with COVID nineteen where people

1684
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:15,760
Speaker 1: have been losing jobs left and right, or not been

1685
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 1: able to go to their jobs that they've had um

1686
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:21,799
Speaker 1: and loo and having us salaries cut. People have been hurting,

1687
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 1: and the response from the city has not too been

1688
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 1: that has not been to provide more resources to people.

1689
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:30,800
Speaker 1: It's been too fund cops city to be able to

1690
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:33,160
Speaker 1: get more police out who are the ones that execute

1691
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:36,720
Speaker 1: the actual evictions themselves? And I think it all, it all,

1692
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:39,240
Speaker 1: it all is connected in that in that type of way.

1693
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 1: I arrived in Atlanta a few days before the Muscogee Summit,

1694
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 1: a weekend event where the original indigenous people from the

1695
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: area of the South River or for the native name

1696
01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 1: of the said land, the Ulandie Forest, traveled back to

1697
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:55,639
Speaker 1: their ancestral homeland to discuss indigenous environmental philosophy what land

1698
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: back and rematreation means in theory and practice. Several Indigenous

1699
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: authors were present and led workshops, including Indigenous feminist, scholar

1700
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,640
Speaker 1: and community planner Laura har Joe from the University of Oklahoma,

1701
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:10,480
Speaker 1: author of Spiral to the Stars Muskogee Tools of Futurity,

1702
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:15,560
Speaker 1: and Dr Daniel Wildcat of the Haskell Indian Nations University,

1703
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: who wrote the book Read Alert Saving the Planet with

1704
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: Indigenous Knowledge. In the less academic portions, there were forest walks,

1705
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: community meals, and singing of old Muscogee songs, including ones

1706
01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 1: that are performed two centuries ago during the Trail of Tears.

1707
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:34,559
Speaker 1: Muskogee Creek attendees also gathered around a sacred fire to

1708
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 1: perform a stomp dance, recreating rhythms heard and sensed in

1709
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 1: the forest long ago, to rekindle the relationship with the

1710
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 1: Earth and connect back to the ancestral presences. This was

1711
01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:48,400
Speaker 1: the second ancestral migration the Muskogee Creek title members have

1712
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:52,639
Speaker 1: done since being forcibly removed two centuries ago and displaced

1713
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:56,600
Speaker 1: to Oklahoma. The first one took place just this last November,

1714
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 1: and both times the particular section of land they gathered

1715
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:01,839
Speaker 1: on in transparant Wee Park is one of the areas

1716
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 1: under threat of being ecologically destroyed and clear cut. Over

1717
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 1: the course of a few days during my week long stay,

1718
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,479
Speaker 1: I sat down in the woods to record with two

1719
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 1: groups of forest offenders, one group sitting around a campfire

1720
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 1: at night next to a high security child prison and

1721
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:20,679
Speaker 1: the other group during the sunny bird chirping day outside

1722
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:23,719
Speaker 1: the Black Hole Studios movie plot. So if you hear

1723
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 1: campfires or bird sounds in the background, just embrace our

1724
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 1: forest punk aesthetic up front. I think it's really important

1725
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 1: to first talk about the history of the land that

1726
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 1: is under threat, because, on top of issues regarding gentrification

1727
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: and the plans of this police training facility as a

1728
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 1: response to the George Floyne Uprising and the false manufactured

1729
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 1: crime wave media narrative intended to rejusify American policing in

1730
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 1: the wake of the uprising, that the fact that the

1731
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:53,880
Speaker 1: Atlanta Police Foundation shows this plot of land in particular

1732
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: is particularly gross. The history of this small section of

1733
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 1: land in the South River Watershed is deeply scarred and

1734
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:04,759
Speaker 1: desperately needs time to heal. There are centuries of oppression

1735
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 1: and state violence tied to this particular spot of land,

1736
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: and now we're seeing that trying to be continued with

1737
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:13,599
Speaker 1: this Cops city plan. Local tribes were expelled for millions

1738
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:16,160
Speaker 1: of acres in the southwest region of what is now

1739
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:19,360
Speaker 1: known as the United States during the early decades of

1740
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds. Forced removal and displacement of the Muskogee

1741
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 1: Creek people began in the region in eighteen twenty one

1742
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,720
Speaker 1: through a series of treaties, which then eventually led to

1743
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:33,680
Speaker 1: a quote melee of removal. More on that from one

1744
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 1: of the force defenders I spoke to, and I'll note

1745
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:39,000
Speaker 1: we'll be using a mix of voice distortion and voice

1746
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 1: actors combined with other audio distortion to help protect the

1747
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 1: identities of the forced defenders that I spoke to against

1748
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:51,759
Speaker 1: possible state repression. So enjoy our our our cool voice

1749
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: distorted audio. Yeah. I think it's important because a lot

1750
01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 1: of our comrades musk of the comments and extended relatives

1751
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 1: that are identified as Muscogee that we're pushed off as

1752
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: lands in the early eighteen hundreds. They a lot of

1753
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:10,800
Speaker 1: them did not go quietly in the night. I think

1754
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 1: that's important to remember because I feel like a lot

1755
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 1: of people are just like the Trail of Twos or

1756
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 1: like they were pushed out, but they're they fought against

1757
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 1: being pushed out, and then when a lot of them

1758
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 1: were pushed out or killed off, then it was used

1759
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 1: to incur story and house mostly black people. So we're

1760
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:30,400
Speaker 1: taking it back. That is most of the people that

1761
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:32,639
Speaker 1: I have seen involved. It is a diverse group of people.

1762
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 1: It's not just like white anarchists in the woods. That

1763
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,080
Speaker 1: is a misconception. There's all kinds of folks, which really

1764
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 1: I think is interesting and makes the struggle unique and important.

1765
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:45,080
Speaker 1: But there is also a lot of like white anarchists

1766
01:31:45,120 --> 01:31:48,000
Speaker 1: that are using their privilege to help take the land

1767
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 1: back for our comrades that want to see it back,

1768
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:53,880
Speaker 1: and it feels things feel like they're in a good way. Um,

1769
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 1: there's good relations that are existing between like the anarchists

1770
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 1: and indigenous alliance down here, where like obviously no one

1771
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 1: person speaks and represents any one group, but the alliances

1772
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 1: that we do have are very informed of the variety

1773
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:11,960
Speaker 1: of activities that have happened down here, including the arsons

1774
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:16,839
Speaker 1: of machinery, and we were positively told to quote unquote

1775
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 1: keep on going, so that feels empowering and it feels beautiful,

1776
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,720
Speaker 1: and it feels important to note that some of the

1777
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:33,320
Speaker 1: comrades that have ancestral ties to this area such a

1778
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:37,799
Speaker 1: dark history and they're still here. Is something that they're mentioning,

1779
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:41,679
Speaker 1: and they're excited the people that were close to obviously

1780
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:43,720
Speaker 1: they're not close to all of them. They're excited that

1781
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:47,720
Speaker 1: people are choosing to use their privilege to help make

1782
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:51,519
Speaker 1: sure these facilities don't get built. Continuing with the scarred

1783
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:54,439
Speaker 1: history of this land, shortly after the lands of the

1784
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:57,879
Speaker 1: South River Forest were stolen from Muskegee Creek people, plots

1785
01:32:57,880 --> 01:33:01,120
Speaker 1: were distributed to white settlers in the Fourth Georgia Land

1786
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 1: Lottery of eighteen twenty one, which made available landlots of

1787
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 1: two hundred and two point five acres. Many of these

1788
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:12,200
Speaker 1: white settlers established slave plantations on which cotton and other

1789
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:15,600
Speaker 1: crops were produced through slave labor. Through archival records, we

1790
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:17,640
Speaker 1: know of at least twelve plantations that were on this

1791
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 1: land that existed from the eighteen forties up until eighteen

1792
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:26,640
Speaker 1: sixty five, and then in the early nineteen hundreds, the

1793
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:30,160
Speaker 1: very same land started being used as a prison farm,

1794
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:33,599
Speaker 1: now known as the Old Atlanta Prison Farm. The Old

1795
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:36,720
Speaker 1: Atlanta prison Farm was originally bought in nineteen seventeen to

1796
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 1: incarce rate prisoners of war, but this plan was abandoned

1797
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 1: within two years and the land was converted into a

1798
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:46,519
Speaker 1: prison farm where inmates including moonshiners, public drinkers, and just

1799
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:50,080
Speaker 1: loiterers and really anybody were sent to and forced to

1800
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:54,960
Speaker 1: perform unpaid agricultural labor. This shift from plantations to prison

1801
01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:58,759
Speaker 1: farm marks the rebranding of slavery into for profit prison labor.

1802
01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 1: This labor in fluded washing cows and arsenic laden water,

1803
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 1: which led to the early deaths of countless prisoners. The

1804
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 1: facility ran up until in which it was shut down,

1805
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:14,280
Speaker 1: and then two child prison facilities were put on the

1806
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 1: adjacent land, and the Atlanta Police Department already currently uses

1807
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: sections of this hollow ground as a firing range tear

1808
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 1: gas canisters and bullet casings from found throughout the forest.

1809
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:29,200
Speaker 1: From where on that, here's some other parts that might

1810
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 1: sit down with the forest offenders. And then I guess

1811
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 1: like fast forwarding a little bit from this land where

1812
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 1: indigenous people lived to the prison farm um, and then

1813
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:46,240
Speaker 1: how this has like a long incarstral history and history

1814
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:49,679
Speaker 1: of being tied to policing, both with the child prison

1815
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 1: that's still here, the prison farm, and then now trying

1816
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,880
Speaker 1: to build this militarized training facility that just like continuing

1817
01:34:55,920 --> 01:35:00,200
Speaker 1: on this legacy of state violence, which is like other

1818
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:02,639
Speaker 1: massive aspect in terms of like they're trying to take

1819
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 1: this very like land that needs to heal from the

1820
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:09,599
Speaker 1: centuries of violence and just tear it all down and

1821
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:14,720
Speaker 1: build more of that. Um. I know, there's like there's

1822
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:17,559
Speaker 1: the firing range that we've been hearing shots from. Uh,

1823
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:20,840
Speaker 1: there's it's like just this never ending thing. It just

1824
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,560
Speaker 1: like just keeps happening. It's a pretty weird, surreal experience.

1825
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 1: Makes me feel like we're all like an endangered species

1826
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:31,280
Speaker 1: living in like the last part of the forest and

1827
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:34,880
Speaker 1: fucking South Atlanta. I remember, and I was explaining to

1828
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:36,960
Speaker 1: one of my relatives, are like I was reading the

1829
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:40,599
Speaker 1: internet about the family Atlanta forest and not sure quite

1830
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:42,680
Speaker 1: what's all going on, but sounds like you're living in

1831
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:45,880
Speaker 1: hell there between two different chapters and Sons of High

1832
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: Security was as security, a large massive power land cut

1833
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:53,720
Speaker 1: and old Prettison farm and two sides of the road

1834
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:56,599
Speaker 1: at least three different police firing rangers and always wider

1835
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 1: treatment plant. The doubles as a firing range and super

1836
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 1: training facility for the police. Another interesting facet is this

1837
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:10,639
Speaker 1: particular piece of land where they're trying to build uh

1838
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:16,120
Speaker 1: Top City is like a really important turning point in

1839
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 1: history of slavery in the US. And like this is

1840
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 1: where a lot of things went from like shadow slavery

1841
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:33,280
Speaker 1: um and transitioned into what we now have as prison slavery.

1842
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 1: And as we're sitting here on what was literally a

1843
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 1: prison farm, even people in pretile detention were here and

1844
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 1: used for unpaid labor, even people who had not been

1845
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:53,800
Speaker 1: convicted of any time. And so it's kind of like

1846
01:36:55,479 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 1: it's like I like very like visible, like Dane on

1847
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:06,280
Speaker 1: the like history of of like what you used racist policing,

1848
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,599
Speaker 1: but it's harder to cover up and harder to like

1849
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:15,080
Speaker 1: pink wash um and so like even as there is

1850
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:20,320
Speaker 1: like a place where children are locked in cages over

1851
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:25,920
Speaker 1: they're not yards from me, so too, is this a

1852
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: place where people were brought for being used as slaves

1853
01:37:33,400 --> 01:37:39,640
Speaker 1: and like died and were buried in unmarked graves? Yeah, Um,

1854
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:43,200
Speaker 1: can I talk a little bit more about that? This

1855
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:48,680
Speaker 1: was the transition, This is like the intermediitary intermediate transition

1856
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:53,519
Speaker 1: between child slavery and mind by prison slavery. UM. And

1857
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:58,200
Speaker 1: it was like especially horrific, Like there is two lakes

1858
01:37:58,240 --> 01:38:01,160
Speaker 1: on the property, but where at one point said to

1859
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 1: be filled with arsenic um where beyond slates were not

1860
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:12,559
Speaker 1: only watching cattle um with the arsenic to remove them

1861
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:16,559
Speaker 1: like bugs, but also in those in those lakes and

1862
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:22,560
Speaker 1: like suffering horrible diseases and like dying from this. The

1863
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:25,280
Speaker 1: reason they present, I'm actually that closed down was because

1864
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:27,479
Speaker 1: of the amount of people going in and out of

1865
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:30,160
Speaker 1: the reason why this city proached to close it down

1866
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:33,639
Speaker 1: was because of the amount of UM people being sent

1867
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,760
Speaker 1: to the hospital week after weekenday after day, like a fish,

1868
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 1: like actually overloading the medical system in the area. UM.

1869
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:46,800
Speaker 1: That's like publicly recorded information. UM they closed down like

1870
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:53,560
Speaker 1: the eighties or nineteen nineties UM. And like during the

1871
01:38:54,520 --> 01:39:00,719
Speaker 1: Civil War, escaped prisoners from here would be are sorry,

1872
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:06,040
Speaker 1: escaped slaves are from here would be h like going

1873
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:09,320
Speaker 1: across battle lines and feeding information to a Union side

1874
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:14,040
Speaker 1: in order to like serve their informs of liberation. I

1875
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:17,479
Speaker 1: mean we like this land also exists right next to

1876
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 1: a major or like major road that serves as a

1877
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 1: car serral center. Um. It has not both like the

1878
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:32,280
Speaker 1: Metro h reentry Metro Reentry facility, the Metro Youth Detention Center,

1879
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:40,559
Speaker 1: and like a couple other buildings. Um uh. And like

1880
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:44,240
Speaker 1: it's not just like the eighty lands of a plan

1881
01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:47,920
Speaker 1: to clear cut here, it's also the like three hundred

1882
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:50,679
Speaker 1: that they plan to continue with the car serial legacy

1883
01:39:50,760 --> 01:39:55,799
Speaker 1: of terror and horror. Um from going from like chattel

1884
01:39:55,880 --> 01:40:06,720
Speaker 1: slavery and indigenous displacement to um be inter intermediary UM

1885
01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:09,960
Speaker 1: poor that the prison firm was, to this new legacy

1886
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:17,920
Speaker 1: of like cover up of it all and then and yeah,

1887
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: the continuation of this land being used by the state,

1888
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:31,000
Speaker 1: by police, by um all these like oppressive groups to

1889
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 1: further their causes. A really interesting aspect of des and

1890
01:40:34,160 --> 01:40:36,240
Speaker 1: for going to prison farm and then police trying to

1891
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:41,519
Speaker 1: now turn it into a militarized police training facility. UM yeah. Yeah.

1892
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 1: So first I think, um, you know, this is mimiscogy

1893
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:49,400
Speaker 1: land and it's during the Scurgy summit. It's cool, you know,

1894
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 1: miscry people have any were displaced for the most part,

1895
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:57,640
Speaker 1: and there trying to participate in this migration back. And

1896
01:40:57,680 --> 01:41:00,599
Speaker 1: so they're on the land right now, and it's been

1897
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:04,040
Speaker 1: very special to have them UM here and to be

1898
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:07,120
Speaker 1: able to express solidarity and like work together with them

1899
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 1: has been really amazing and learned a lot and it's

1900
01:41:12,479 --> 01:41:15,240
Speaker 1: yet it's cool to understand that. And you know what

1901
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:20,120
Speaker 1: you're saying, that interaction of like UM settler colonialism displacing

1902
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:26,720
Speaker 1: people UM, like early slavery, prison slavery, and this this

1903
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:31,680
Speaker 1: specific land has always been UM a place that I

1904
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:35,439
Speaker 1: feel like has been almost like the vanguard of how

1905
01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:41,120
Speaker 1: like policing has and like such a settler colonialism, UM

1906
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:45,759
Speaker 1: has experimented with how to reproduce itself in sustainable ways

1907
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:50,679
Speaker 1: UM with like just in general domestication of humans and

1908
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:54,599
Speaker 1: the domestication animals. And that's like what APD is trying

1909
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:57,519
Speaker 1: to do on this land. And it's a direct reaction

1910
01:41:57,560 --> 01:42:00,280
Speaker 1: to the George Floyd uprising, which caused a cry assist

1911
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:03,320
Speaker 1: and policing is it actually been back with serious power,

1912
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:07,960
Speaker 1: and so they're trying to figure out and experiment with

1913
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 1: ways of reproducing policing for the future in the exact

1914
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:17,559
Speaker 1: same way that when slavery took a serious owl, they said,

1915
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: how can we recuperate and how can we reproduce this

1916
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 1: in a way that's sustainable, and that why we have

1917
01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:27,559
Speaker 1: a modern prison system that lives on to this day.

1918
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:32,400
Speaker 1: And that's why they're realizing as Pepper gaining and threatening it. Oh,

1919
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:34,400
Speaker 1: we have to do something good and this lamp has

1920
01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:37,200
Speaker 1: always been a site for doing that. If it's they're

1921
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:42,280
Speaker 1: an keep tracking. Atlanta is a heavily corporate city. It's

1922
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 1: been dubbed the Silicon Valley of the South by people

1923
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:48,880
Speaker 1: who surely must be insufferable to be around, but it

1924
01:42:49,000 --> 01:42:52,799
Speaker 1: is true that Atlanta and Georgia's economic policies have attached

1925
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 1: a swath of corporations to either start to grow or

1926
01:42:56,360 --> 01:43:00,000
Speaker 1: migrate to the city. It's home to Coca Cola, Delta Airline,

1927
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:05,440
Speaker 1: Bans Ups, home Depot, Chick fil A, and multiple media conglomerates,

1928
01:43:05,439 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 1: as well as having headquarters for like Google and other

1929
01:43:08,439 --> 01:43:11,320
Speaker 1: tech companies. As well, the city serves as a massive

1930
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:15,040
Speaker 1: transportation hub. In fact, Atlanta the city started off as

1931
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:18,560
Speaker 1: a train hub, and now it boasts the world's busiest airport.

1932
01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 1: Recent tax credits for the film industry have made Atlanta

1933
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 1: and Georgia the new hot place to shoot high budget

1934
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 1: Hollywood movies. There's a whole effort to make the city

1935
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 1: effectively the new Hollywood. But like all economic growth, uh,

1936
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 1: this comes with some heavy consequences, most often affecting those

1937
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:40,760
Speaker 1: at the bottom. Atlanta is also the most surveilled city

1938
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:43,360
Speaker 1: in the United States and the city with the most

1939
01:43:43,479 --> 01:43:47,840
Speaker 1: wealth and equality. All the corporations and film industry stuff

1940
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:51,320
Speaker 1: moving to Atlanta has indeed created jobs, but many of

1941
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:54,639
Speaker 1: those jobs go to workers from out of state. On average,

1942
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:57,120
Speaker 1: less than one third of new film industry jobs have

1943
01:43:57,160 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 1: gone to people who were already living in Atlanta. The

1944
01:44:00,360 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 1: result of this out of state economic migration boosts cost

1945
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:07,040
Speaker 1: of housing, cost of living at Bush's lower and middle

1946
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:10,840
Speaker 1: class residents of Atlanta out of their neighborhoods, disproportionately pushing

1947
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:13,280
Speaker 1: out to black people. And this is all while the

1948
01:44:13,400 --> 01:44:18,000
Speaker 1: increasing corporatization and gentrification is actually pitched as quote unquote

1949
01:44:18,040 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 1: providing opportunities to the city's black population, which is certainly something.

1950
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:25,760
Speaker 1: Because the state of Georgia has the fourth largest incarceration

1951
01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:28,680
Speaker 1: rate in the entire world. If you put a U.

1952
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:31,639
Speaker 1: S States on the same level as like every single

1953
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:35,680
Speaker 1: other country, the other top three states or countries with

1954
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:41,120
Speaker 1: the highest incarceration rates are Louisiana, Mississippi, and Oklahoma. So yeah,

1955
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:44,959
Speaker 1: but Georgia's number four. Those in Atlanta's top income bracket

1956
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:49,920
Speaker 1: make nearly twenty times those who are at the bottom.

1957
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:52,920
Speaker 1: And if you map the wealth disparity onto the layout

1958
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:55,320
Speaker 1: of the city, it's a one to one match for

1959
01:44:55,360 --> 01:44:59,320
Speaker 1: the city's old segregation lines. The entire city runs on

1960
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:03,479
Speaker 1: these like reignite newliberal policies, but under this mask of

1961
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:07,040
Speaker 1: woke identity politics. And who enforces that wealth and equality

1962
01:45:07,080 --> 01:45:11,120
Speaker 1: and gentrification. That's right, police, which leads us to the

1963
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:14,920
Speaker 1: origin of this plan for so called cops City. I'm

1964
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:17,679
Speaker 1: gonna quote a crime Thing article that came out last

1965
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:21,640
Speaker 1: month called the City in the Forest, Reinventing Resistance for

1966
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:25,439
Speaker 1: an age of climate crisis and police militarization, which recommend

1967
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:27,559
Speaker 1: you guys read I'll I'll have it in the habit

1968
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:30,000
Speaker 1: in the source notes. But yeah, here's the quote from

1969
01:45:30,040 --> 01:45:33,320
Speaker 1: Crime Thing quote. The government of Atlanta has developed a

1970
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:36,960
Speaker 1: few tentative solutions to the dilemmas they face. To follow

1971
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:39,720
Speaker 1: through on their commitments to their backers, city politicians need

1972
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:42,400
Speaker 1: to continue sacrificing public assets on the altar of the

1973
01:45:42,439 --> 01:45:45,439
Speaker 1: economy in order to attract more major investors to the region,

1974
01:45:45,880 --> 01:45:50,160
Speaker 1: especially the film industry and technology companies. To maintain control

1975
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:52,920
Speaker 1: in a period of rapid displacement and rising cost of living,

1976
01:45:53,280 --> 01:45:55,920
Speaker 1: with chronic tension between the conservative state government and the

1977
01:45:55,960 --> 01:45:59,360
Speaker 1: liberal city administration, they need to funnel more resources towards

1978
01:45:59,400 --> 01:46:03,160
Speaker 1: law enforcement throughout the region. Finally, to appease the increasingly

1979
01:46:03,160 --> 01:46:06,800
Speaker 1: rebellious lower classes, they to frame this process of restructuring

1980
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:10,080
Speaker 1: and repression in the language of black empowerment, social justice,

1981
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:13,679
Speaker 1: and progressivism. The bureaucrats are not in a good position

1982
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:16,600
Speaker 1: to handle this. Decades of tax cuts and deregulation have

1983
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:21,280
Speaker 1: created infrastructural failures and breakdowns of all kinds, among other concerns.

1984
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:24,679
Speaker 1: Atlanta lost the bid for the second Amazon headquarters because

1985
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:26,600
Speaker 1: the public transit one of the least funded in the

1986
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:29,120
Speaker 1: United States. It was not even operable when the corporate

1987
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:32,120
Speaker 1: scouts came to visit at the same time. It's precisely

1988
01:46:32,160 --> 01:46:34,920
Speaker 1: the low taxes and absence of regulation that attract capital

1989
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 1: to the state of Georgia, so cultivating a social democratic

1990
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:41,559
Speaker 1: governing strategy may now be impossible without creating a flight

1991
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:44,400
Speaker 1: of wealth to other parts of the country. It seems

1992
01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:46,519
Speaker 1: that the current plan is to give over as many

1993
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:50,000
Speaker 1: public contracts and resources to private developers as possible, to

1994
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:53,120
Speaker 1: allow them to incur the costs of social disintegration and anger,

1995
01:46:53,439 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 1: and to use police to control the blowback, and to

1996
01:46:56,120 --> 01:46:58,519
Speaker 1: use images of Martin Luther King Jr. To preempt any

1997
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:02,320
Speaker 1: meaningful resistance. Thus, the plan to transform a wild space

1998
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:06,280
Speaker 1: into a police training compound is dubbed the Institute for

1999
01:47:06,439 --> 01:47:11,559
Speaker 1: Social Justice. That's right, the plan to make the country's

2000
01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 1: biggest militarized police training facility. They're planning to call it

2001
01:47:15,040 --> 01:47:19,080
Speaker 1: the Institute for Social Justice. Ignore the bomb range and

2002
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:24,160
Speaker 1: uh urban combat mock city section anyway. Um here is

2003
01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 1: Jamal again from the community movement builders. I think one

2004
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:34,160
Speaker 1: thing that's also really significant is that so my city

2005
01:47:34,160 --> 01:47:39,599
Speaker 1: council person for his District twelve, Joyce Shepherd, um District

2006
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:43,719
Speaker 1: twelve is where Pittsburgh is, where Summerhill is, where several

2007
01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:49,640
Speaker 1: of poor and black working class neighborhoods of Atlanta are located.

2008
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 1: There are also the areas where they're the most gentrifying

2009
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:57,679
Speaker 1: areas of the city as well, and it's in and

2010
01:47:57,880 --> 01:48:01,840
Speaker 1: city Council District twelve. Joyce Shepherd she is the person

2011
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:05,600
Speaker 1: who brought this proposal forward, right, she is over the

2012
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:08,639
Speaker 1: quote unquote public safety. Um, you know they aren't keeping

2013
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 1: it safe quote unquote public safety. Um, you know, commission

2014
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:18,080
Speaker 1: and Um, she brought this forward. And she has been

2015
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:25,280
Speaker 1: since she's been in office, she has been a even uh,

2016
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:28,720
Speaker 1: she's been a champion of gentrification. Right, she's been a

2017
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:32,000
Speaker 1: champion of over policing as well. Um. And I think

2018
01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:34,439
Speaker 1: it's it's a tie between even our city council or

2019
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:37,719
Speaker 1: even our representation has in their interests of being able

2020
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:39,920
Speaker 1: of of gentrifying the city because that gives them more

2021
01:48:39,960 --> 01:48:41,840
Speaker 1: tax stars. It gives them a way to be able

2022
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:45,759
Speaker 1: to say that they are decreasing their crime rates except

2023
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:47,720
Speaker 1: and all those all these different types of things when

2024
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:50,680
Speaker 1: it's really just dep deplacing poor folks. Um. And so

2025
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:53,760
Speaker 1: I think that's an important about talking about how this

2026
01:48:53,840 --> 01:48:56,240
Speaker 1: kind of was established. That's an important topic to be

2027
01:48:56,280 --> 01:48:58,439
Speaker 1: able to address, is that even and she's a black woman,

2028
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:03,960
Speaker 1: right so even um, you know, even how like when

2029
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:06,680
Speaker 1: people when when people might you think they might be

2030
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:09,360
Speaker 1: in representing your interests, when they get to be in

2031
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:11,439
Speaker 1: these positions, we have to recognize that they are not

2032
01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:15,080
Speaker 1: necessarily for the people. In the aftermath of the George

2033
01:49:15,080 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 1: Floyd uprising against police violence, the city responded by striking

2034
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 1: down any police reform measures and restricting opportunities for republic input,

2035
01:49:22,640 --> 01:49:26,559
Speaker 1: while increasing the police budget and upping citizens surveillance. On

2036
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:29,920
Speaker 1: a national level, a media manufacturing crime wave narrative has

2037
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:32,400
Speaker 1: been used to rejuify American policing in the wake of

2038
01:49:32,400 --> 01:49:35,680
Speaker 1: the uprising, and the City of Atlanta is using that

2039
01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:39,559
Speaker 1: narrative while wrapping their increased militarization plans in a nice

2040
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:43,200
Speaker 1: woke social justice package, i e. A militarized police training

2041
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:48,280
Speaker 1: compound being dubbed the Institute for Social Justice. Heading up

2042
01:49:48,280 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 1: this effort is the Atlanta Police Foundation, which is a

2043
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 1: nonprofit police advocacy organization that claims to have quote united

2044
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:59,200
Speaker 1: the business and philanthropic community with the Atlanta Police Department.

2045
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:02,840
Speaker 1: It's a It's backed by an array of Atlanta area

2046
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: corporate donors, including Delta Airlines, Upstrick fil A, Cox Enterprizes,

2047
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:10,640
Speaker 1: which owns the Atlanta Journal Constitution, which is like the

2048
01:50:10,640 --> 01:50:14,960
Speaker 1: city's biggest newspaper, and they were formally formally backed by

2049
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:18,040
Speaker 1: Coca Cola. They Coca Cola dropped out this last November.

2050
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:22,160
Speaker 1: A leak promo video for the Institute for Social Justice

2051
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:26,000
Speaker 1: details some of the features of the Atlanta Police Foundations

2052
01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:29,840
Speaker 1: quote world class training campus. With an estimated cost of

2053
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:33,040
Speaker 1: ninety million dollars. The space will provide a place for

2054
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:37,520
Speaker 1: recruiting training, mid career education, and practice with new technology

2055
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:41,440
Speaker 1: and equipment for police and fire department personnel. The renderings

2056
01:50:41,479 --> 01:50:44,120
Speaker 1: show the campus will house a quote mock city for

2057
01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:48,720
Speaker 1: real world training, a canine training center, and forty horse

2058
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:52,040
Speaker 1: stalls for police horses. Twelve acres of forest land are

2059
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:55,799
Speaker 1: slated to be converted into an emergency vehicle operations course,

2060
01:50:56,720 --> 01:50:59,519
Speaker 1: and the whole compound will be located across three hundred

2061
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:02,719
Speaker 1: and the acres of the old Atlanta Prison Farm, which

2062
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:05,480
Speaker 1: is a city owned but technically outside of city limits,

2063
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:09,120
Speaker 1: located just east of the city in unincorporated Dekapp County.

2064
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:12,760
Speaker 1: The Police Foundation has proposed funding the training center through

2065
01:51:12,960 --> 01:51:16,479
Speaker 1: a public private partnership, which will leave taxpayers to pay

2066
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:20,040
Speaker 1: an estimated thirty million dollars for this out of city

2067
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:23,240
Speaker 1: police training facility one, which is one third of the

2068
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:27,400
Speaker 1: early estimated cost. According to the land Use Ordinance. The

2069
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:30,000
Speaker 1: property will be leased to the Police Foundation by the

2070
01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:35,200
Speaker 1: city for ten dollars a year for fifty years. It's

2071
01:51:35,240 --> 01:51:39,320
Speaker 1: almost four acres of forest land for ten dollars a year.

2072
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:42,160
Speaker 1: The grund lease will quote provide that the city will

2073
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:44,639
Speaker 1: be able to have input or approval on the stages

2074
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:47,920
Speaker 1: of construction along with the development of the property, and

2075
01:51:48,160 --> 01:51:52,879
Speaker 1: will allow waving of certain code requirements. Such a facility

2076
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:55,040
Speaker 1: would be three times the size of the New York

2077
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:57,800
Speaker 1: Plice Department's training facility and four times the size of

2078
01:51:57,880 --> 01:52:00,880
Speaker 1: the l a p d s and worth noting that

2079
01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:04,120
Speaker 1: the NYPD and l a p D are the two

2080
01:52:04,520 --> 01:52:08,360
Speaker 1: largest police departments in the country, while Atlanta is the

2081
01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:12,360
Speaker 1: only the nineteenth largest. Yet they'll have a facility that's

2082
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:15,960
Speaker 1: like three times the size of New York's. According to

2083
01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:19,240
Speaker 1: the Mayor of Atlanta during the time of the facility's announcement,

2084
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 1: the massive training complex would quote raise morale among officers

2085
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:27,280
Speaker 1: and hopefully bring more recruits to the department. And importantly,

2086
01:52:27,439 --> 01:52:31,080
Speaker 1: the whole project was initially supposed to be totally under wraps,

2087
01:52:31,479 --> 01:52:38,520
Speaker 1: approved through backdoor deal making the social justice something socialist

2088
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:42,920
Speaker 1: justice I believe in the promo video specifically, which was

2089
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:46,040
Speaker 1: not likely even a public release. And this is like

2090
01:52:46,160 --> 01:52:50,160
Speaker 1: very much designed to be under the table, pushed through

2091
01:52:50,200 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 1: as fast as possible of the public, whereas it really

2092
01:52:53,200 --> 01:52:55,559
Speaker 1: supposed to know about it. The videos that existed were

2093
01:52:55,600 --> 01:53:00,920
Speaker 1: only meant to be UM the Sponsors Boardnembers unders of

2094
01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:07,559
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Police Foundation UM and MIGHT. The Police Foundation,

2095
01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:12,360
Speaker 1: unlike most like police unions, is a foundation made to

2096
01:53:13,080 --> 01:53:16,960
Speaker 1: final corporate money into the handsOn police. The Cops City

2097
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:19,639
Speaker 1: side of things is just one part of the Defend

2098
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:22,680
Speaker 1: the Forest project. The other big aspect of this is

2099
01:53:22,960 --> 01:53:26,120
Speaker 1: pushing back on the movie studio Black Hall from being

2100
01:53:26,160 --> 01:53:29,439
Speaker 1: able to clear cut more forced to expand their sound stage.

2101
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:34,840
Speaker 1: Projects shot on their current lot include A Godzillak of Monsters, Venom,

2102
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:39,000
Speaker 1: der Van Hansen, HBO's Lovedcraft Country, and Amazon Primes The

2103
01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:41,880
Speaker 1: Tomorrow War. On the east side of the forested land,

2104
01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:45,519
Speaker 1: the part that's referred to as Entrenchment Creek Park was

2105
01:53:45,560 --> 01:53:48,200
Speaker 1: bought by Hondy Booko founder Arthur Blank and the early

2106
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:51,479
Speaker 1: two thousands with a plan to combine UH that section

2107
01:53:51,560 --> 01:53:53,840
Speaker 1: of land with three acres at the Prison Farm to

2108
01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:56,559
Speaker 1: create a five hundred acre park, a project that never

2109
01:53:56,640 --> 01:53:59,000
Speaker 1: came to fruition. UH and now the park is currently

2110
01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:01,519
Speaker 1: under control of the Cat County. On top of the

2111
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:04,200
Speaker 1: heat insulation and air filtering that the tree canopy provides,

2112
01:54:04,560 --> 01:54:07,280
Speaker 1: Entrenchment Creek plays a crucial role in maintaining the South

2113
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 1: River Watershed, being a partial wetland and marsh that mitigates

2114
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:15,280
Speaker 1: flooding in South Atlanta. Quoting that crime thing article again, quote,

2115
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:17,640
Speaker 1: the plundering of public assets from the benefit of a

2116
01:54:17,680 --> 01:54:20,360
Speaker 1: movie company and real estate mogul is described as an

2117
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:24,200
Speaker 1: opportunity to create quote good jobs for local Atlanta's, not

2118
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:28,240
Speaker 1: as a criminal expropriation of infrastructure. The clear cut that

2119
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:30,600
Speaker 1: Blackall Studio has planned to trade in exchange for a

2120
01:54:30,640 --> 01:54:35,440
Speaker 1: section of forest is to be renamed Michelle Obama Park unquote.

2121
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,800
Speaker 1: So yeah. That also clearly demonstrates the type of gentrification

2122
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:43,280
Speaker 1: wrapped in this nice woke package by doing this really

2123
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:46,800
Speaker 1: sketchy land swap and then building a park on it

2124
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:51,080
Speaker 1: and calling at Michelle Obama Park cool stuff, guys. Black

2125
01:54:51,120 --> 01:54:53,760
Speaker 1: All Studios is currently a hundred and fifty acre complex

2126
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,440
Speaker 1: about ten minutes south of downtown, and they seek to

2127
01:54:56,480 --> 01:54:59,920
Speaker 1: add over half a million square feet of sound stage

2128
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:05,200
Speaker 1: two hundred thousands square feet of offices UH four hundred

2129
01:55:05,280 --> 01:55:10,200
Speaker 1: twenty thousand square feet for warehousing square feet of catering space,

2130
01:55:10,240 --> 01:55:13,040
Speaker 1: according to a filing made through the States Development of

2131
01:55:13,120 --> 01:55:16,240
Speaker 1: Regional Impact Program UH. The d r I s are

2132
01:55:16,240 --> 01:55:19,120
Speaker 1: filed when the projects size is large enough that it's

2133
01:55:19,120 --> 01:55:23,040
Speaker 1: likely to impact the infrastructure of neighboring communities. The De

2134
01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:26,800
Speaker 1: Cab County Board of Commissioners in October voted to approve

2135
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:28,800
Speaker 1: the land swap deal with Blackhe Studios. As a part

2136
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:32,280
Speaker 1: of the planned expansion, the county would give approximately forty

2137
01:55:32,280 --> 01:55:35,960
Speaker 1: acres mostly wooded land around the South River Forest, and

2138
01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:38,640
Speaker 1: then in turn, Black Studios would give the county around

2139
01:55:38,680 --> 01:55:43,120
Speaker 1: fifty acres of nearby land as well. The project has

2140
01:55:43,120 --> 01:55:45,920
Speaker 1: faced some legal and construction issues ever since then, and

2141
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:50,240
Speaker 1: we'll discuss the details of those shortly. Also worth noting

2142
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:53,120
Speaker 1: that Black Hall Studios was sold to a private equity

2143
01:55:53,160 --> 01:55:56,560
Speaker 1: firm in l A just last year, and this last

2144
01:55:56,600 --> 01:56:00,840
Speaker 1: February announced that they purchased another one thousand and five

2145
01:56:00,880 --> 01:56:04,520
Speaker 1: hundred acres in Newtown County, Georgia, which is about forty

2146
01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:07,480
Speaker 1: miles east of downtown Atlanta UH, and they plan to

2147
01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:11,839
Speaker 1: shoot productions there for an upcoming quote action oriented streaming

2148
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:19,240
Speaker 1: service dubbed black Hall Americana, which sounds horrible. Um, here's

2149
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:22,960
Speaker 1: a here, here's a quote from black Hole CEO Ryan

2150
01:56:23,080 --> 01:56:26,840
Speaker 1: millsap quote. This is the kind of space we need

2151
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:30,080
Speaker 1: to fly in black Hawk helicopters and drive humpies at speed.

2152
01:56:30,760 --> 01:56:34,280
Speaker 1: We have lakes, we have swamps and rivers and forests

2153
01:56:34,320 --> 01:56:37,840
Speaker 1: and fields and hills and dales. That's the nice thing

2154
01:56:37,880 --> 01:56:43,800
Speaker 1: about one thousand and five hundred acres. Yep. So look

2155
01:56:43,840 --> 01:56:47,800
Speaker 1: forward to uh, black Hall Americana, the new hit streaming

2156
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:52,440
Speaker 1: service coming out of Georgia. Um, destroying the forest for

2157
01:56:53,160 --> 01:56:57,680
Speaker 1: Black Hall Americana. Oh boy, but yeah, if if, if,

2158
01:56:57,760 --> 01:57:00,200
Speaker 1: if this project succeeds, it would cement Atlanta as the

2159
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:03,400
Speaker 1: new Hollywood, along with like Tyler Perry Studios and all

2160
01:57:03,440 --> 01:57:05,800
Speaker 1: of the other movie studios moving to Atlanta, and it

2161
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:08,840
Speaker 1: would continue the skyrocketing cost to living in Atlanta and

2162
01:57:08,920 --> 01:57:14,680
Speaker 1: accelerate gentrification at a even more horrifying right. So, Um, Actually,

2163
01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:18,960
Speaker 1: the black Hall side, but in as like being defended

2164
01:57:19,000 --> 01:57:22,280
Speaker 1: as well, is also in the Welining Forest, which is

2165
01:57:22,400 --> 01:57:27,720
Speaker 1: like what's been escaping name for the South Atlanta forests. Um,

2166
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 1: And it's actually right across the road from where we

2167
01:57:31,160 --> 01:57:37,920
Speaker 1: currently are. Um. So the and it's like I want

2168
01:57:37,920 --> 01:57:41,680
Speaker 1: to believe three or four acres by itself. Um, and

2169
01:57:41,800 --> 01:57:45,320
Speaker 1: that is actually under imminent threat as well. They're waiting

2170
01:57:45,400 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 1: on the land destruction permit to pass, and that can

2171
01:57:48,280 --> 01:57:51,080
Speaker 1: happen any day or any week on on what you

2172
01:57:51,120 --> 01:57:55,400
Speaker 1: were saying about the gentrification issue. Um, that's something that's

2173
01:57:55,440 --> 01:57:58,800
Speaker 1: been really noticeable to anyone that lives in Atlanta and

2174
01:57:58,920 --> 01:58:03,480
Speaker 1: has for any amount of time just looking around them,

2175
01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:08,520
Speaker 1: like the filming that is just regularly happening here and

2176
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:12,480
Speaker 1: all all these kind of new companies popping up around it.

2177
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:16,640
Speaker 1: Black Hall was sold maybe a little over a year

2178
01:58:16,680 --> 01:58:19,520
Speaker 1: ago now to a hedge fund out in California. They're

2179
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:24,560
Speaker 1: getting funding for all of these projects. And the rent

2180
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:27,080
Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, I'm sure across the country, I'm not

2181
01:58:27,120 --> 01:58:30,960
Speaker 1: sure what the trends are elsewhere, has been skyrocketing. Like

2182
01:58:31,640 --> 01:58:35,040
Speaker 1: you'll see homes that sold during the financial crisis for

2183
01:58:35,160 --> 01:58:39,040
Speaker 1: like eight thousand dollars two dollars selling for like half

2184
01:58:39,080 --> 01:58:43,240
Speaker 1: a million dollars today. And you know, I'm not like

2185
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 1: a fucking economist, but the way that the film industry

2186
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:50,200
Speaker 1: has been exploding and other industries like Google and Microsoft

2187
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:54,040
Speaker 1: have been building these massive, expensive new headquarters while people

2188
01:58:54,120 --> 01:58:56,040
Speaker 1: literally go out on the street because they can no

2189
01:58:56,080 --> 01:58:59,440
Speaker 1: longer afford to pay rent here, and people just get displaced.

2190
01:59:00,320 --> 01:59:03,800
Speaker 1: It's like the opposite of white flight back into the suburbs,

2191
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:06,880
Speaker 1: when you know, folks are moving into the city for

2192
01:59:07,120 --> 01:59:11,600
Speaker 1: economic opportunities that only very wealthy people can get. I mean,

2193
01:59:11,600 --> 01:59:15,720
Speaker 1: it's it's difficult not to see Black Hall as ushering

2194
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:22,720
Speaker 1: in just another huge wave of gentrification. Yeah, black making

2195
01:59:22,760 --> 01:59:26,800
Speaker 1: movies to support the American way of life, but Black

2196
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:29,800
Speaker 1: Hall explicitly says they're making movies to support the American

2197
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:32,600
Speaker 1: way of life. We hear gunshots from the police firing

2198
01:59:32,720 --> 01:59:34,920
Speaker 1: range all the time, and we hear almost as many

2199
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:39,400
Speaker 1: gun shots from the Black Hall filming sides. Um. And Yeah,

2200
01:59:39,400 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 1: it's very much about creating propaganda that makes people think

2201
01:59:44,520 --> 01:59:47,400
Speaker 1: they need police. Um. And that's like a huge part

2202
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:49,920
Speaker 1: of kind of what they're doing. A life of film

2203
01:59:50,200 --> 01:59:52,320
Speaker 1: and all the gentrification thing. Like even just driving to

2204
01:59:52,440 --> 01:59:56,400
Speaker 1: the city the past few days, I've noticed so many

2205
01:59:56,440 --> 02:00:00,240
Speaker 1: places that used to be wooded, uh, totally towards down

2206
02:00:00,240 --> 02:00:03,360
Speaker 1: and they're putting up these horrible quote unquote luxury condos

2207
02:00:03,360 --> 02:00:06,720
Speaker 1: which are like, you know, two thousand dollars rent from

2208
02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:09,880
Speaker 1: on for a tiny studio. UM. And I've even seen

2209
02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:13,280
Speaker 1: things that were used to be secretionated housing turned into

2210
02:00:13,360 --> 02:00:18,080
Speaker 1: luxury condos. Like it's it's been absurd driving through the

2211
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:20,120
Speaker 1: city and watching so many places that used to be

2212
02:00:20,160 --> 02:00:23,560
Speaker 1: wooded just turned like so much like active construction sites

2213
02:00:23,600 --> 02:00:27,640
Speaker 1: building these exact same like these identical apartment complexes that

2214
02:00:27,680 --> 02:00:29,640
Speaker 1: are the most hideous things you've ever looked at, and

2215
02:00:29,680 --> 02:00:33,400
Speaker 1: completely unaffordable for any for anyone who's not like someone

2216
02:00:33,440 --> 02:00:38,080
Speaker 1: who's working for a tech company. Like they are like

2217
02:00:38,160 --> 02:00:42,560
Speaker 1: destroying a section of Atlanta called Park and it was

2218
02:00:42,640 --> 02:00:47,560
Speaker 1: like a large green space that was largely unmaged in Lakeland.

2219
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:52,200
Speaker 1: UM and creating quote affordable housing, which is really just

2220
02:00:52,720 --> 02:00:55,920
Speaker 1: the legal term for they have a certain amount of

2221
02:00:57,720 --> 02:01:01,000
Speaker 1: available housing, like like like taking units in like a

2222
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:04,640
Speaker 1: like one unit thing is affordable house. Like affordable just

2223
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:08,160
Speaker 1: means market value or like like the medium market value.

2224
02:01:08,200 --> 02:01:12,040
Speaker 1: Low income is things that people that aren't like average

2225
02:01:12,120 --> 02:01:14,320
Speaker 1: money makers come for, right And I think one of

2226
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:16,880
Speaker 1: the like I think it's has kind of kind of

2227
02:01:16,880 --> 02:01:19,120
Speaker 1: gotten lost about the struggle about the actual defending the

2228
02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:22,440
Speaker 1: Atlanta force struggles like not specific to just cops of

2229
02:01:22,440 --> 02:01:26,640
Speaker 1: your black hole is actually the entire forest as a city, UM.

2230
02:01:26,720 --> 02:01:30,000
Speaker 1: And that like part of the reason why it has

2231
02:01:30,040 --> 02:01:32,480
Speaker 1: been so focus is because of like how pressing these

2232
02:01:32,840 --> 02:01:39,240
Speaker 1: currents um things are and how like stretched thin people

2233
02:01:39,960 --> 02:01:43,760
Speaker 1: kind of a who are working on this um and

2234
02:01:44,360 --> 02:01:46,920
Speaker 1: that like yeah, Chosea Park is an example. There's also

2235
02:01:46,960 --> 02:01:51,240
Speaker 1: an area and that's like near Grant Park and like

2236
02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:54,880
Speaker 1: the Zone three old Zone three precinct, and there are

2237
02:01:55,080 --> 02:01:57,240
Speaker 1: like the zoo they were like actually in the same

2238
02:01:57,240 --> 02:02:02,400
Speaker 1: property area. UM. They kept the pigs near the zoo. UM.

2239
02:02:02,480 --> 02:02:06,240
Speaker 1: And like it was an entire forest land like absolutely

2240
02:02:06,360 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 1: mouth of every app every clear gardner doing disgusting condos

2241
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:15,960
Speaker 1: all along the rod um. And it's it's a continuation

2242
02:02:16,040 --> 02:02:20,800
Speaker 1: again of a distinctive political pattern in Atlanta. Back when

2243
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:24,720
Speaker 1: Mayor Jackson was elected as the mayor, he at first

2244
02:02:24,880 --> 02:02:28,960
Speaker 1: tried to build like affordable not affordable, like low income

2245
02:02:29,040 --> 02:02:32,640
Speaker 1: housing and do community projects and stuff. But the business

2246
02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:37,400
Speaker 1: end of Atlanta fought back against those efforts and that

2247
02:02:37,560 --> 02:02:42,560
Speaker 1: is what saw projects like the Olympic Games, which destroyed

2248
02:02:42,680 --> 02:02:45,839
Speaker 1: an entire community in Atlanta. You should look up people's

2249
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:50,040
Speaker 1: down here in Atlanta was just in Summer Hill completely

2250
02:02:50,200 --> 02:02:54,040
Speaker 1: raised to build arenas and all of this ship And

2251
02:02:54,080 --> 02:02:58,600
Speaker 1: it feels like a continuation of the powern where politicians

2252
02:02:58,640 --> 02:03:01,760
Speaker 1: decide what is best for the city the Olympics, a

2253
02:03:01,800 --> 02:03:06,920
Speaker 1: new police training facility or whatever business measures on the

2254
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:10,680
Speaker 1: table today, not to mention that like during the nineties

2255
02:03:10,680 --> 02:03:15,080
Speaker 1: six Olympics, they're like specifically built Atlantice City Detention Center

2256
02:03:15,280 --> 02:03:20,440
Speaker 1: for the for a place to put houseless people who

2257
02:03:20,440 --> 02:03:23,400
Speaker 1: have been sweeped up the streets and like criminalized them.

2258
02:03:23,400 --> 02:03:27,280
Speaker 1: And during the George forlid uprising in that was reused

2259
02:03:27,320 --> 02:03:31,880
Speaker 1: too as detainments and overnight states for protesters who are

2260
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 1: like going to get low bail justice a form of

2261
02:03:35,080 --> 02:03:40,160
Speaker 1: repression is regularly used. Again like that jails regularly used

2262
02:03:40,200 --> 02:03:45,320
Speaker 1: specifically against protesters and isn't used for anything else. Is

2263
02:03:45,360 --> 02:03:49,720
Speaker 1: a like absolutely still around the face of humanity and

2264
02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:53,720
Speaker 1: Artisha Lance Bottoms said during her turn that she was

2265
02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:57,000
Speaker 1: going to turn that into a social justice side or right,

2266
02:03:57,080 --> 02:03:59,920
Speaker 1: it's still a jail. It probably already it probably all

2267
02:04:00,000 --> 02:04:03,640
Speaker 1: ways will be until he fucking destroy it. Uh. And

2268
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:08,600
Speaker 1: like now the Fulton County sheriff wants to take over

2269
02:04:08,680 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 1: the jail and use all of those beds because the

2270
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:16,720
Speaker 1: jails here are so overcrowded with bullshit charges that they

2271
02:04:16,760 --> 02:04:19,720
Speaker 1: are just expanding and expanding, expanding, and there's no sign

2272
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:22,600
Speaker 1: of stopping. For every one time that they promise that

2273
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:25,320
Speaker 1: they're going to be closing jails, repurposing ship doing all

2274
02:04:25,360 --> 02:04:30,120
Speaker 1: this liberal reform bullshit, there's a new training facility, they're

2275
02:04:30,160 --> 02:04:32,480
Speaker 1: selling jails to people that are using them more. The

2276
02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:35,640
Speaker 1: system just continues to expand and expand and expand until

2277
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:42,880
Speaker 1: we fight back and destroy it. Need black haw Yeah,

2278
02:04:42,920 --> 02:04:45,400
Speaker 1: police need Black Hall just as much as black hall

2279
02:04:45,480 --> 02:04:48,880
Speaker 1: needs the police, you know. And these are the symbiotic

2280
02:04:48,960 --> 02:04:53,280
Speaker 1: relationship between the two. Police are instrumental in gentrification and

2281
02:04:53,480 --> 02:04:58,240
Speaker 1: also police need gentrification to capture poor black and brown

2282
02:04:58,360 --> 02:05:00,960
Speaker 1: people and lock them in case. And so these are

2283
02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:04,600
Speaker 1: two things that that feed each other in a relationship.

2284
02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:08,280
Speaker 1: So it's very important to do our best to attack

2285
02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:12,200
Speaker 1: book is Atlanta. Was it the Atlanta police who have

2286
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:17,240
Speaker 1: like the point system for rust? Yes, Atlanta Police. Yes,

2287
02:05:17,320 --> 02:05:20,160
Speaker 1: Atlanta Police has actually a point system where among the

2288
02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:25,880
Speaker 1: highest points is capturing a child. For capturing a child

2289
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:30,960
Speaker 1: and arresting them are alongside felony charges, folony warrants and

2290
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:36,920
Speaker 1: other things. Um longest point system. They use it as

2291
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:41,000
Speaker 1: a rubric to measure how well an officers doing. Um

2292
02:05:41,880 --> 02:05:47,200
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, I mean in terms of like needing gentrification

2293
02:05:47,280 --> 02:05:50,520
Speaker 1: to continue your job. Yeah, that's that's the exact same

2294
02:05:50,640 --> 02:05:52,600
Speaker 1: thing is, let's have this point system so we can

2295
02:05:52,640 --> 02:05:54,520
Speaker 1: get races and it arrest all the people who are

2296
02:05:54,560 --> 02:05:58,320
Speaker 1: on the street. And it's uh a mask off moment,

2297
02:05:58,400 --> 02:06:01,480
Speaker 1: as they say. And I also think it's this funny thing,

2298
02:06:01,760 --> 02:06:06,440
Speaker 1: like I don't know, right, they're building this fake city

2299
02:06:06,640 --> 02:06:10,880
Speaker 1: to train in, and I wouldn't be surprised if Black

2300
02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:12,960
Speaker 1: hawns up renting it out from time to time to

2301
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:16,000
Speaker 1: shoot films, right absolutely, But also at the end of

2302
02:06:16,080 --> 02:06:18,400
Speaker 1: the day, even if they don't, it's literally the same

2303
02:06:18,480 --> 02:06:21,520
Speaker 1: exact thing, right, one is training people to actually do

2304
02:06:21,720 --> 02:06:24,320
Speaker 1: it and the other is performing it too. People think

2305
02:06:24,360 --> 02:06:28,440
Speaker 1: it's cool exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I just pulled up

2306
02:06:28,480 --> 02:06:32,280
Speaker 1: the actually my friend just pulled up there like chart

2307
02:06:32,360 --> 02:06:35,520
Speaker 1: which is it's a one to five scale. It's five scale.

2308
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:39,440
Speaker 1: It's five for juvenile arrest, five points for felonies, four

2309
02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:41,600
Speaker 1: for a misdem or charge three for a city, charge

2310
02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:46,320
Speaker 1: for for deal wise and it goes on um and

2311
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:49,440
Speaker 1: like the fact that juvenile rest is the top one

2312
02:06:49,640 --> 02:06:55,000
Speaker 1: is sucking monstrous. No I expected like they are the

2313
02:06:55,080 --> 02:06:58,800
Speaker 1: monster like that. Yeah, like if it's not, it's not shocking,

2314
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:05,360
Speaker 1: but it shows the extent of like the the horrible

2315
02:07:05,440 --> 02:07:08,480
Speaker 1: nous of what of like what their job is like,

2316
02:07:08,560 --> 02:07:13,160
Speaker 1: that is their job, That's what that's what they do.

2317
02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:17,320
Speaker 1: That is the entire thing. One thing that's given the

2318
02:07:17,400 --> 02:07:19,840
Speaker 1: Atlanta Defend the Force movement and edge is being able

2319
02:07:19,880 --> 02:07:22,640
Speaker 1: to consistently set the terms of engagement and establish a

2320
02:07:22,760 --> 02:07:25,640
Speaker 1: media framework regarding the instruction of the forest and the

2321
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:28,360
Speaker 1: development of Cops City to stay one step ahead of

2322
02:07:28,400 --> 02:07:31,440
Speaker 1: the enemy. Like we've mentioned, the Cops City of project

2323
02:07:31,560 --> 02:07:34,240
Speaker 1: was never actually initially announced by the city or the

2324
02:07:34,280 --> 02:07:37,400
Speaker 1: Police Foundation. It was brought to light by activists digging

2325
02:07:37,440 --> 02:07:41,400
Speaker 1: through open source data and public records in April one,

2326
02:07:41,480 --> 02:07:44,000
Speaker 1: when activists discovered the proposal to destroy the South of

2327
02:07:44,160 --> 02:07:47,160
Speaker 1: Our Forest. First, news spread via word of mouth for

2328
02:07:47,240 --> 02:07:50,879
Speaker 1: several weeks about a large information sharing session at Entrenchment

2329
02:07:50,960 --> 02:07:54,760
Speaker 1: Creek Park, one of the areas under threat. On May fifteen,

2330
02:07:54,960 --> 02:07:57,560
Speaker 1: over two hundred people gathered for a barbecue and info

2331
02:07:57,720 --> 02:08:00,560
Speaker 1: presentation night on the threat of the forest and the

2332
02:08:00,640 --> 02:08:04,080
Speaker 1: broader campaign to defend it. The city government had yet

2333
02:08:04,120 --> 02:08:06,760
Speaker 1: to announce its plans publicly, so the activists and Force

2334
02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:10,320
Speaker 1: defenders were able to craft the public narrative first and

2335
02:08:10,480 --> 02:08:14,320
Speaker 1: lay the media groundwork. At the information session, presenters were

2336
02:08:14,360 --> 02:08:17,720
Speaker 1: able to accurately contextualize the development within the cross section

2337
02:08:17,800 --> 02:08:20,960
Speaker 1: of racist and authoritarian backlash against the George Floyd protests,

2338
02:08:21,480 --> 02:08:25,520
Speaker 1: the increasing gentrification and urban displacement, and the devastating climate

2339
02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:29,040
Speaker 1: effects such a project will inflict upon the region. Having

2340
02:08:29,120 --> 02:08:32,040
Speaker 1: activists and Force defenders break the news such a development

2341
02:08:32,440 --> 02:08:34,840
Speaker 1: denies the city and the police the opportunity to introduce

2342
02:08:34,880 --> 02:08:37,960
Speaker 1: a development to the public with a distorted narrative, assuming

2343
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:39,960
Speaker 1: that they were gonna announce their plans and make them

2344
02:08:40,000 --> 02:08:43,600
Speaker 1: public at all. And then, on May seventeenth, less than

2345
02:08:43,680 --> 02:08:47,320
Speaker 1: forty eight hours after the info sharing barbecue, seven unguarded

2346
02:08:47,360 --> 02:08:50,760
Speaker 1: machines at the forest destruction site, including excavators, tractors, and

2347
02:08:50,760 --> 02:08:54,800
Speaker 1: other pieces of heavy machinery, were targeted by sabotage, with

2348
02:08:54,880 --> 02:08:58,480
Speaker 1: smash windows and severed inner tubing scorched by fire. The

2349
02:08:58,600 --> 02:09:03,600
Speaker 1: destruction equipment was left inoperable. An anonymous statement appeared online

2350
02:09:03,760 --> 02:09:07,880
Speaker 1: detailing their motivations and methods of attack, while tying the

2351
02:09:07,960 --> 02:09:12,320
Speaker 1: actions to the struggling and colonialism, authoritarianism, and the history

2352
02:09:12,360 --> 02:09:15,160
Speaker 1: of this particular land as the site of horrific abuses,

2353
02:09:16,120 --> 02:09:19,800
Speaker 1: of the site of displacement, child slavery, and prison slavery.

2354
02:09:20,200 --> 02:09:24,360
Speaker 1: The communicate ended with quote to the developers, governments, contractors,

2355
02:09:24,600 --> 02:09:29,680
Speaker 1: corporations and politicians have perpetrated the heinous deforestation. Any further

2356
02:09:29,720 --> 02:09:32,040
Speaker 1: attempts at destroying the Atlanta Forest we met with a

2357
02:09:32,120 --> 02:09:35,360
Speaker 1: similar response, the forest was here long before us, and

2358
02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:38,560
Speaker 1: we'll be here long after. We'll see to that defend

2359
02:09:38,680 --> 02:09:42,120
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Forest. Today, no one has been arrested for

2360
02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:47,160
Speaker 1: these actions. The presence of such a targeted direct action

2361
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:50,400
Speaker 1: campaign this early on in the movement is important for

2362
02:09:50,520 --> 02:09:53,240
Speaker 1: a few reasons, one of which being it's meant in

2363
02:09:53,280 --> 02:09:55,920
Speaker 1: sabotage as a part of this movement from the very beginning,

2364
02:09:56,240 --> 02:09:59,240
Speaker 1: like it was moven into the genetic fabric from the conception,

2365
02:10:00,120 --> 02:10:02,920
Speaker 1: so any debate around the validity of these tactics was

2366
02:10:03,040 --> 02:10:06,560
Speaker 1: virtually non existent because they were there from the beginning.

2367
02:10:07,120 --> 02:10:10,040
Speaker 1: That's what this movement is and that's been super interesting

2368
02:10:10,080 --> 02:10:12,480
Speaker 1: to watch because usually this type of sabotage or direct

2369
02:10:12,520 --> 02:10:15,440
Speaker 1: action happens later on in these movements, you escalate to

2370
02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:18,160
Speaker 1: that point, But in this case, it's been happening since

2371
02:10:18,200 --> 02:10:20,680
Speaker 1: the first week people knew that this thing is was existing.

2372
02:10:21,920 --> 02:10:25,280
Speaker 1: Over the following weeks, there was meetings, posters, and flyers

2373
02:10:25,400 --> 02:10:28,800
Speaker 1: that spread throughout the city. People organized public forest walks

2374
02:10:28,920 --> 02:10:31,760
Speaker 1: through areas of the woods that were under threat. Even

2375
02:10:31,800 --> 02:10:34,240
Speaker 1: a few candidates for city council adopted the struggle as

2376
02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:38,840
Speaker 1: a component of their electoral campaigns. The movement's consistent ability

2377
02:10:38,920 --> 02:10:41,080
Speaker 1: to break the news on the development and the destruction

2378
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:43,840
Speaker 1: of the forest has been crucial in the efforts to

2379
02:10:43,960 --> 02:10:46,600
Speaker 1: gain public trust and setting the terms of engagement and

2380
02:10:46,680 --> 02:10:49,840
Speaker 1: the ground rules for the conflict. The type of public

2381
02:10:49,880 --> 02:10:53,520
Speaker 1: discourse regarding the forest was successfully established by anonymous activists,

2382
02:10:53,720 --> 02:10:56,920
Speaker 1: not by politicians, and not by police. Think something that's

2383
02:10:56,920 --> 02:11:00,600
Speaker 1: been really cool about this movement. From the early days

2384
02:11:00,680 --> 02:11:03,920
Speaker 1: of when this was going on, it was extremely radical,

2385
02:11:04,080 --> 02:11:07,680
Speaker 1: like it wasn't It wasn't three or four months after

2386
02:11:07,760 --> 02:11:10,240
Speaker 1: the first initial meeting, it was like a barbecue at

2387
02:11:10,280 --> 02:11:13,560
Speaker 1: the park where people were lighting bulldozers on fire to

2388
02:11:13,720 --> 02:11:18,200
Speaker 1: prevent construction from happening. The Atlanta Police Foundation has had

2389
02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:23,600
Speaker 1: its offices, its office windows smashed, like people are not

2390
02:11:23,880 --> 02:11:29,000
Speaker 1: afraid to fight back physically. And this was occurring at

2391
02:11:29,040 --> 02:11:34,440
Speaker 1: the same time as the more electoral tactics as how

2392
02:11:34,440 --> 02:11:37,720
Speaker 1: I'll phrase it, and I think that you know, we've

2393
02:11:37,840 --> 02:11:42,720
Speaker 1: seen neither of these being able to successfully stop the movement.

2394
02:11:42,800 --> 02:11:46,120
Speaker 1: But when it comes to like being able to measure

2395
02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:52,640
Speaker 1: that the police have and their allies have slowed down,

2396
02:11:53,000 --> 02:11:56,320
Speaker 1: the electoral tactics have been a complete utter failure. Um

2397
02:11:56,720 --> 02:12:02,040
Speaker 1: and physically harming that property of the police, end of

2398
02:12:02,240 --> 02:12:05,520
Speaker 1: the black Hall and all of the forces that would

2399
02:12:05,520 --> 02:12:09,680
Speaker 1: destroy the forest. That's been shown far away to be

2400
02:12:09,800 --> 02:12:14,000
Speaker 1: a tactic that's not only acceptable in this movement, but

2401
02:12:14,080 --> 02:12:17,400
Speaker 1: it's something that's seen as like one of the go

2402
02:12:17,600 --> 02:12:20,080
Speaker 1: to strategies. It's we haven't had to work our way

2403
02:12:20,120 --> 02:12:23,000
Speaker 1: to that. People were there from the getto. Yeah, it

2404
02:12:23,080 --> 02:12:24,760
Speaker 1: was like a day or two after the Young for

2405
02:12:24,800 --> 02:12:27,680
Speaker 1: a night, but the very first public facing event, but

2406
02:12:27,800 --> 02:12:33,600
Speaker 1: like bulldozers were set on fire in like Michelle Obamba Park,

2407
02:12:33,680 --> 02:12:36,960
Speaker 1: which is funny or enough of another like recuperation tactic

2408
02:12:37,040 --> 02:12:40,280
Speaker 1: of like destruction of the environment and like on Ding

2409
02:12:40,360 --> 02:12:46,120
Speaker 1: gentrification where that's actually Black Hall Studios old plan site

2410
02:12:46,200 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: for their um new studio. And the idea of the

2411
02:12:51,560 --> 02:12:56,160
Speaker 1: land swappers they take this shitty land where they destroyed

2412
02:12:56,240 --> 02:13:00,520
Speaker 1: forest type, replace it with an earth ground and in

2413
02:13:01,520 --> 02:13:04,040
Speaker 1: and as long as they turn into a park, they're

2414
02:13:04,080 --> 02:13:11,080
Speaker 1: allowed to UM build and construct on public forest land UM,

2415
02:13:12,720 --> 02:13:14,880
Speaker 1: which is like a Bunker's idea. Yeah, yeah, I know.

2416
02:13:15,360 --> 02:13:18,360
Speaker 1: It's actually like a new precedent right here back has

2417
02:13:18,440 --> 02:13:21,280
Speaker 1: not been done before. I think that like one of

2418
02:13:21,320 --> 02:13:25,400
Speaker 1: the other things, you know, along with the fiery start

2419
02:13:25,600 --> 02:13:29,120
Speaker 1: kind of kick off, is that the folks who you know,

2420
02:13:29,200 --> 02:13:32,360
Speaker 1: like in my experience, most like kind of big broader

2421
02:13:32,600 --> 02:13:36,960
Speaker 1: campaign type things that people who are doing jail support,

2422
02:13:37,080 --> 02:13:40,560
Speaker 1: the people who have abroad reach, the people who you know,

2423
02:13:40,760 --> 02:13:44,200
Speaker 1: have access to resources, etcetera. Kind of the like backbone

2424
02:13:44,800 --> 02:13:47,760
Speaker 1: life sustaining things of a movement tend to be folks

2425
02:13:47,800 --> 02:13:54,600
Speaker 1: who have really rigid moralizing ideas of like what is acceptable, etcetera.

2426
02:13:55,520 --> 02:14:00,440
Speaker 1: And you know, people in Atlanta have been there's a

2427
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:02,640
Speaker 1: lot of credit due to folks who have been putting

2428
02:14:02,640 --> 02:14:05,120
Speaker 1: in a lot of work and are a little wiser

2429
02:14:05,240 --> 02:14:08,080
Speaker 1: than to have such a limited narrow view. So most

2430
02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:11,160
Speaker 1: of the folks that control and are not controlled. Most

2431
02:14:11,200 --> 02:14:14,440
Speaker 1: of the folks who like backline and are working really

2432
02:14:14,480 --> 02:14:18,120
Speaker 1: hard to do them more like reproductive things and jail

2433
02:14:18,160 --> 02:14:20,720
Speaker 1: support and get food and things like that, are also

2434
02:14:20,800 --> 02:14:25,360
Speaker 1: people who have a really like, um, creative and accepting

2435
02:14:25,520 --> 02:14:29,760
Speaker 1: view of you know, like what kind of things are

2436
02:14:29,920 --> 02:14:34,160
Speaker 1: okay and really don't want this movement to fail and

2437
02:14:34,200 --> 02:14:37,280
Speaker 1: aren't going to limit themselves based on abstract ideas. And

2438
02:14:37,400 --> 02:14:42,160
Speaker 1: so that's something that is really special and um, you know,

2439
02:14:42,360 --> 02:14:45,680
Speaker 1: one gets excluded for for doing things that are effective.

2440
02:14:46,600 --> 02:14:48,640
Speaker 1: When talking with the force defenders, the other thing that

2441
02:14:48,760 --> 02:14:51,440
Speaker 1: was really emphasized is that instead of waiting for distant

2442
02:14:51,440 --> 02:14:54,080
Speaker 1: politicians to say the environment, and instead of dedicating tons

2443
02:14:54,120 --> 02:14:57,520
Speaker 1: of effort into petitioning companies with moralized grehtoric to make

2444
02:14:57,560 --> 02:14:59,960
Speaker 1: them feel bad in hopes of them dropping of the

2445
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:03,400
Speaker 1: the project, you can instead have immediate material attacks that

2446
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:05,920
Speaker 1: hit them where it counts, and where it counts is

2447
02:15:05,960 --> 02:15:09,200
Speaker 1: their pockets. Because you can't expect companies to be swayed

2448
02:15:09,240 --> 02:15:13,520
Speaker 1: by moral decisions around harmful policing or the environment, but

2449
02:15:13,680 --> 02:15:16,720
Speaker 1: you can attack their physical and social capital if it's

2450
02:15:16,760 --> 02:15:19,000
Speaker 1: framed as, hey, this is something that is not a

2451
02:15:19,040 --> 02:15:21,360
Speaker 1: good look, fam, and uh, this is going to hurt

2452
02:15:21,400 --> 02:15:24,560
Speaker 1: your bank accounts. That is the type of general language

2453
02:15:24,600 --> 02:15:28,000
Speaker 1: that these corporations do understand. I feel like this is

2454
02:15:28,080 --> 02:15:30,440
Speaker 1: the most intersectional thing I've been a part of in

2455
02:15:30,520 --> 02:15:33,560
Speaker 1: a long time. There's just like so many different ways

2456
02:15:33,640 --> 02:15:37,120
Speaker 1: to oppose the facility, and there's so many different people involved.

2457
02:15:37,320 --> 02:15:39,920
Speaker 1: And I'm really grateful for all of the comrades, especially

2458
02:15:39,960 --> 02:15:42,560
Speaker 1: the anarchist comrades, who've been holding it down for years

2459
02:15:42,920 --> 02:15:45,840
Speaker 1: and helped push the struggle in a certain direction. I

2460
02:15:45,920 --> 02:15:48,160
Speaker 1: think other people are touching on this. We want to

2461
02:15:48,280 --> 02:15:51,480
Speaker 1: keep bringing it up because it's important, and other struggles

2462
02:15:51,520 --> 02:15:53,520
Speaker 1: we've been a part of, like the liberals control a

2463
02:15:53,600 --> 02:15:55,960
Speaker 1: lot of the money for jail support or bail funds

2464
02:15:56,080 --> 02:15:58,960
Speaker 1: or food distract and a lot of those mutual aid

2465
02:15:59,000 --> 02:16:01,880
Speaker 1: aspects of the struggle that help maintain an occupation which

2466
02:16:01,920 --> 02:16:04,120
Speaker 1: has really turned this place up are in the hands

2467
02:16:04,160 --> 02:16:07,840
Speaker 1: of mostly anarchist folks, and that has also really set

2468
02:16:07,880 --> 02:16:09,840
Speaker 1: the scene for what we're able to do and not

2469
02:16:10,040 --> 02:16:12,480
Speaker 1: able to do, Like no one's getting thrown under the

2470
02:16:12,520 --> 02:16:14,800
Speaker 1: bus for a leisured behavior like when I was reading

2471
02:16:14,840 --> 02:16:17,240
Speaker 1: about this before I came down here almost exactly a

2472
02:16:17,320 --> 02:16:19,920
Speaker 1: year ago, there were like machines are on fire, and

2473
02:16:19,960 --> 02:16:23,560
Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, it's like usually that's like

2474
02:16:24,000 --> 02:16:26,440
Speaker 1: the way later in the struggle, and that was like

2475
02:16:26,640 --> 02:16:29,640
Speaker 1: right out the gate. People whoever they are, were attacking

2476
02:16:29,720 --> 02:16:31,920
Speaker 1: the machinery, and I think, to be honest with you,

2477
02:16:32,160 --> 02:16:34,000
Speaker 1: that was drawing a lot of people here because people

2478
02:16:34,040 --> 02:16:36,000
Speaker 1: are tired of the n v d A or non

2479
02:16:36,120 --> 02:16:39,800
Speaker 1: violent direct action. It's not about like let's criticize something

2480
02:16:39,879 --> 02:16:42,160
Speaker 1: to death that makes us feel bad. It's like people

2481
02:16:42,200 --> 02:16:44,360
Speaker 1: are tired because they're losing a lot of comrades to

2482
02:16:44,520 --> 02:16:47,760
Speaker 1: long prison sentences. They're getting three different felonies that are

2483
02:16:47,800 --> 02:16:49,840
Speaker 1: like the same amount of time or more than if

2484
02:16:49,840 --> 02:16:52,720
Speaker 1: you would allegedly arson something. So these are things that

2485
02:16:52,800 --> 02:16:55,120
Speaker 1: are coming up for people, and people are realizing that

2486
02:16:55,240 --> 02:16:58,199
Speaker 1: old tactics aren't working anymore. A lot of the comrades

2487
02:16:58,240 --> 02:17:00,240
Speaker 1: that were burned into a weird shape from the Green

2488
02:17:00,320 --> 02:17:02,720
Speaker 1: scare are aging out, or the things that they're afraid

2489
02:17:02,800 --> 02:17:05,199
Speaker 1: of are very valid, but we're living in two dire

2490
02:17:05,240 --> 02:17:07,600
Speaker 1: of a time to neglect those tactics or a larger

2491
02:17:07,720 --> 02:17:10,680
Speaker 1: level and people are just are seeing how terrible things are,

2492
02:17:10,959 --> 02:17:12,920
Speaker 1: and it seems like more people are down or just

2493
02:17:13,000 --> 02:17:16,040
Speaker 1: don't care anymore. Ever since the George Floyd uprisings, they've

2494
02:17:16,120 --> 02:17:17,920
Speaker 1: just seen an uptick in a lot of this behavior.

2495
02:17:18,280 --> 02:17:20,760
Speaker 1: There's a campaign that launched publicly that mentions all the

2496
02:17:20,840 --> 02:17:23,960
Speaker 1: subcontractors that Reaves Young, one of the construction companies on

2497
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:26,400
Speaker 1: the project, has to employ to make the Atlanta Police

2498
02:17:26,440 --> 02:17:29,880
Speaker 1: Foundations project here possible, and a lot of that could

2499
02:17:29,959 --> 02:17:32,800
Speaker 1: be home visits, it could be going to where they

2500
02:17:33,440 --> 02:17:35,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, obviously, but I'm just saying,

2501
02:17:35,600 --> 02:17:38,200
Speaker 1: long story short, everybody knows this, but you find where

2502
02:17:38,200 --> 02:17:40,480
Speaker 1: they store the evil equipment, that's the best way to

2503
02:17:40,520 --> 02:17:43,360
Speaker 1: stop the project. Long story short. They usually don't listen

2504
02:17:43,400 --> 02:17:45,640
Speaker 1: to what we have to say, but actions speak louder

2505
02:17:45,680 --> 02:17:47,520
Speaker 1: than words. And if you really want to hurt them,

2506
02:17:47,600 --> 02:17:49,680
Speaker 1: you hurt them in their pockets. And if you cost

2507
02:17:49,760 --> 02:17:52,200
Speaker 1: them enough money damage, they may pull out of the project.

2508
02:17:52,400 --> 02:17:55,720
Speaker 1: They shut down. And even if there is other subcontractors

2509
02:17:55,800 --> 02:17:58,080
Speaker 1: that they could get to write machinery from to cut trees,

2510
02:17:58,240 --> 02:18:00,360
Speaker 1: whatever the funkt is they're going to do, we want

2511
02:18:00,400 --> 02:18:02,680
Speaker 1: them to be afraid if you look at very romantously

2512
02:18:02,760 --> 02:18:05,400
Speaker 1: struggles that have largely been successful in their own ways

2513
02:18:05,440 --> 02:18:07,320
Speaker 1: throughout the world. I'm just going to mention a couple

2514
02:18:07,360 --> 02:18:10,080
Speaker 1: because people talk about them constantly, like the Zon in France,

2515
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:12,800
Speaker 1: on a Hambach in Germany, or no Time in Italy.

2516
02:18:13,200 --> 02:18:17,240
Speaker 1: Blocker laws around property destruction and defending your area. Another

2517
02:18:17,280 --> 02:18:19,440
Speaker 1: strong point of the movement to Defend the Atlanta Forest

2518
02:18:19,600 --> 02:18:23,439
Speaker 1: is that it's not simply coalesced around a single coherent strategy,

2519
02:18:23,840 --> 02:18:28,119
Speaker 1: whether that be sabotage or above ground organizing. For over

2520
02:18:28,200 --> 02:18:31,000
Speaker 1: a year now, force defenders and movement participants have employed

2521
02:18:31,120 --> 02:18:35,600
Speaker 1: several parallel strategies in tandem. Strategies of one approach can

2522
02:18:35,640 --> 02:18:38,520
Speaker 1: fill in for the shortcomings of another. Often these differing

2523
02:18:38,560 --> 02:18:43,320
Speaker 1: strategies can be mutually beneficial. As sabotage was happening, opponents

2524
02:18:43,400 --> 02:18:46,680
Speaker 1: of Cops City also organized a continuous stream of educational

2525
02:18:46,720 --> 02:18:49,600
Speaker 1: events on the land, as well as pressure campaigns aimed

2526
02:18:49,600 --> 02:18:53,240
Speaker 1: at pushing city and county officials, investors, and contractors to

2527
02:18:53,400 --> 02:18:57,360
Speaker 1: drop out of the project. As summer began, more traditional

2528
02:18:57,560 --> 02:19:02,760
Speaker 1: political activist organizations like one connected to nationwide socialist organizations,

2529
02:19:03,040 --> 02:19:07,800
Speaker 1: abolitionist networks, and ecological advocacy groups began doing more direct

2530
02:19:07,920 --> 02:19:11,320
Speaker 1: community outrage by knocking on the doors talking with people

2531
02:19:11,520 --> 02:19:13,840
Speaker 1: in the neighborhoods next to where the forest was being

2532
02:19:13,920 --> 02:19:17,480
Speaker 1: slated for destruction. Forming connections and ally ships with the

2533
02:19:17,560 --> 02:19:20,000
Speaker 1: local community in the vicinity of the South River forest

2534
02:19:20,320 --> 02:19:22,600
Speaker 1: is crucial, especially since that they would be among the

2535
02:19:22,680 --> 02:19:26,720
Speaker 1: first of those impacted by deforestation and the close proximity

2536
02:19:26,840 --> 02:19:30,760
Speaker 1: to such a militarized police hub with you know, explosive

2537
02:19:30,840 --> 02:19:34,800
Speaker 1: testing and helicopter pads um plus you know, local community

2538
02:19:34,800 --> 02:19:38,959
Speaker 1: outreach is useful for learning what might help mobilize more

2539
02:19:39,040 --> 02:19:43,800
Speaker 1: regular folks. Other tactics and strategies emerging during early summer

2540
02:19:44,280 --> 02:19:47,119
Speaker 1: included getting those involved in the planning of Cops City

2541
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:50,200
Speaker 1: to realize that they don't get to operate in some

2542
02:19:50,600 --> 02:19:55,800
Speaker 1: safe politics, only realm Their political decisions have real world

2543
02:19:55,879 --> 02:19:59,320
Speaker 1: consequences and real world effects for those people that they

2544
02:19:59,360 --> 02:20:03,840
Speaker 1: allegedly represent, so perhaps they too should be forced to

2545
02:20:03,920 --> 02:20:08,440
Speaker 1: feel real world consequences. On June six, there was a

2546
02:20:08,560 --> 02:20:10,600
Speaker 1: city council meeting which was supposed to voute on the

2547
02:20:10,720 --> 02:20:15,920
Speaker 1: Police Foundation's land lease ordinance, sponsored by then Councilwoman Joyce Shepherd.

2548
02:20:16,959 --> 02:20:20,160
Speaker 1: At this point. Back in, the meetings were all virtual

2549
02:20:20,560 --> 02:20:23,320
Speaker 1: due to the COVID nineteen pandemic, so the city council

2550
02:20:23,360 --> 02:20:28,000
Speaker 1: members hosted their conversations from inside their homes. With just

2551
02:20:28,080 --> 02:20:30,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of work, activists and researchers were able

2552
02:20:31,000 --> 02:20:35,520
Speaker 1: to locate the home address of Councilwoman Shepherd. A group

2553
02:20:35,640 --> 02:20:38,200
Speaker 1: went to her home and displayed a banner during the

2554
02:20:38,280 --> 02:20:42,000
Speaker 1: city council meeting. Most protesters just chanted from the public sidewalk,

2555
02:20:42,320 --> 02:20:45,080
Speaker 1: and one individual approached her house, knocked on the door

2556
02:20:45,160 --> 02:20:49,920
Speaker 1: and ring the doorbell before returning to the street. Turns out,

2557
02:20:50,080 --> 02:20:52,880
Speaker 1: council Woman Shepherd did not like this very much and

2558
02:20:53,080 --> 02:20:59,080
Speaker 1: went into a bit of a panic. So like kind

2559
02:20:59,120 --> 02:21:02,160
Speaker 1: of a recording terms of like city Council or other

2560
02:21:02,680 --> 02:21:07,080
Speaker 1: targets has been like whenever the first time they were

2561
02:21:07,240 --> 02:21:12,440
Speaker 1: going to vote on this uh like UM Institute for

2562
02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:15,320
Speaker 1: Social actually copsody UM. When they were going to vote

2563
02:21:15,360 --> 02:21:22,199
Speaker 1: on copsody UM, someone went up to Joyce Shepherd's house

2564
02:21:22,840 --> 02:21:26,080
Speaker 1: and knocked on her door. They're so painful of protesters

2565
02:21:26,120 --> 02:21:28,000
Speaker 1: outside and someone just knocked on her door and she

2566
02:21:28,120 --> 02:21:31,879
Speaker 1: went to her frenzy freaked out, called off the vote,

2567
02:21:32,120 --> 02:21:36,560
Speaker 1: left the meeting, ran to the precinct and comments during

2568
02:21:36,600 --> 02:21:41,160
Speaker 1: the bough the corn section, and then gave a like

2569
02:21:41,800 --> 02:21:45,440
Speaker 1: long speech to like a bunch of police and press,

2570
02:21:45,840 --> 02:21:48,680
Speaker 1: which like called out, which effectively called off the vote

2571
02:21:48,680 --> 02:21:51,600
Speaker 1: for another like three months or so, just because someone

2572
02:21:51,879 --> 02:21:55,760
Speaker 1: visited the house of a politician because they had names

2573
02:21:55,800 --> 02:21:59,320
Speaker 1: and addresses, and like that also happened with Ryan Mills.

2574
02:21:59,360 --> 02:22:05,920
Speaker 1: App that's happen with that's CEO and chairman of Reeves Young.

2575
02:22:06,680 --> 02:22:09,880
Speaker 1: There's this whole idea of politics as existing within this

2576
02:22:10,560 --> 02:22:14,320
Speaker 1: political astral space. Right, It's it's it's the same thing

2577
02:22:14,360 --> 02:22:17,560
Speaker 1: with like corporations. Right, everything exists in the corporate space

2578
02:22:18,360 --> 02:22:22,320
Speaker 1: that's removed from people's actual lives. Right, it's it's removed

2579
02:22:22,440 --> 02:22:27,199
Speaker 1: from actual personal consequences. People in positions of power assume

2580
02:22:27,280 --> 02:22:30,959
Speaker 1: that their actions occur in this political or corporate astral plane.

2581
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:35,120
Speaker 1: That means that consequences of their decisions won't directly impact them.

2582
02:22:35,879 --> 02:22:38,560
Speaker 1: But we don't need to play by those rules. After

2583
02:22:38,680 --> 02:22:41,920
Speaker 1: a friendly knock on her door, Joyce Shepherd called off

2584
02:22:42,000 --> 02:22:44,760
Speaker 1: the vote and left the meeting early to call the police,

2585
02:22:44,879 --> 02:22:49,240
Speaker 1: who arrived after the protesters had already dispersed. Immediately after,

2586
02:22:49,440 --> 02:22:52,720
Speaker 1: Joyce Shepherd held a press conference from the newly constructed

2587
02:22:52,920 --> 02:22:56,920
Speaker 1: Zone three police precinct. Their Shepherd stood surrounded by police

2588
02:22:56,959 --> 02:23:00,520
Speaker 1: officers and news media and described in detail the aims

2589
02:23:00,600 --> 02:23:02,879
Speaker 1: of her land lease ordinance, the nature of the cop

2590
02:23:02,959 --> 02:23:06,960
Speaker 1: City project, as well as the efforts of protesters to stopper.

2591
02:23:07,640 --> 02:23:10,280
Speaker 1: By doing this short public statement, she catapulted the movement

2592
02:23:10,400 --> 02:23:13,520
Speaker 1: and the story into the mainstream, out of the political

2593
02:23:13,600 --> 02:23:16,680
Speaker 1: backdoors that it was existing in previously, and Atlanta to

2594
02:23:16,680 --> 02:23:20,520
Speaker 1: any councilwoman says protesters came onto her private property to

2595
02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:24,040
Speaker 1: speak out against a piece of legislation. Joyce Shapherd says, well,

2596
02:23:24,120 --> 02:23:26,840
Speaker 1: she supports the right to protest. This time it went

2597
02:23:26,920 --> 02:23:29,800
Speaker 1: too far. People have a right to come out and

2598
02:23:29,879 --> 02:23:32,600
Speaker 1: say whether they four or against it. I have no

2599
02:23:32,760 --> 02:23:34,880
Speaker 1: problem with that. I've been doing this for years and

2600
02:23:34,959 --> 02:23:37,440
Speaker 1: know that people have the right. But what they don't

2601
02:23:37,440 --> 02:23:39,240
Speaker 1: have a right to do is come up on my

2602
02:23:39,400 --> 02:23:43,440
Speaker 1: private property, knock on my doors, protests on my lawn,

2603
02:23:43,879 --> 02:23:47,400
Speaker 1: on my poech They don't have that right. So I'm

2604
02:23:47,440 --> 02:23:52,080
Speaker 1: fair tonight that I'm still supporting the academy. I'm not scared. However,

2605
02:23:52,600 --> 02:23:54,280
Speaker 1: there will be no right for people to come up

2606
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:57,800
Speaker 1: my property and protests. The next day she made another

2607
02:23:57,879 --> 02:24:00,640
Speaker 1: statement which you just heard a little bit of, where

2608
02:24:00,720 --> 02:24:03,160
Speaker 1: she also claimed that she would be pushing through the

2609
02:24:03,240 --> 02:24:06,120
Speaker 1: ordinance no matter what the city residence that she sensibly

2610
02:24:06,160 --> 02:24:09,440
Speaker 1: represented had to say. And her and her fellow city

2611
02:24:09,520 --> 02:24:13,720
Speaker 1: officials took a stand against the protesters and rejected their tactics,

2612
02:24:14,320 --> 02:24:18,440
Speaker 1: falsely implying that the methods like going on a sidewalk

2613
02:24:18,600 --> 02:24:22,080
Speaker 1: were illegal. But by showing up outside a politician's house

2614
02:24:22,080 --> 02:24:24,080
Speaker 1: and knocking on her door, just a few people were

2615
02:24:24,120 --> 02:24:26,720
Speaker 1: able to achieve an early goal of the movement to

2616
02:24:26,800 --> 02:24:29,879
Speaker 1: transform the cop city and black Hall developments from back

2617
02:24:29,920 --> 02:24:33,640
Speaker 1: to agreements into big public scandals. It got out of

2618
02:24:33,640 --> 02:24:36,640
Speaker 1: the shadows and into the spotlight. As a bonus, the

2619
02:24:36,720 --> 02:24:39,359
Speaker 1: vote was delayed, buying more time to develop further strategies

2620
02:24:39,400 --> 02:24:42,640
Speaker 1: in defense of the forest. It was an effective demonstration

2621
02:24:42,760 --> 02:24:46,240
Speaker 1: of the potential of direct confrontation with people in power,

2622
02:24:47,040 --> 02:24:49,360
Speaker 1: and it led to the emergence of another strategy that's

2623
02:24:49,400 --> 02:24:52,800
Speaker 1: become a big part of the genetic fabric of this movement,

2624
02:24:53,360 --> 02:24:56,720
Speaker 1: pressuring decision makers directly and dissolving their notion of a

2625
02:24:56,800 --> 02:25:00,920
Speaker 1: safe political or corporate astral space. During this time of

2626
02:25:01,160 --> 02:25:04,959
Speaker 1: showing up at Politician stores, more sabotage and direct action

2627
02:25:05,040 --> 02:25:09,000
Speaker 1: were also taking place. Signs appeared in the forest warning

2628
02:25:09,080 --> 02:25:11,160
Speaker 1: that trees in the area had been spiked, making it

2629
02:25:11,240 --> 02:25:14,200
Speaker 1: possibly dangerous to attempt to cut down trees, with the

2630
02:25:14,440 --> 02:25:17,879
Speaker 1: risk of saws being damaged and possibly injuring unlucky workers.

2631
02:25:18,440 --> 02:25:21,320
Speaker 1: On June tenth, three more excavators were burned at the

2632
02:25:21,440 --> 02:25:25,480
Speaker 1: black Hole Studios the site. Neither action appeared much in

2633
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:29,320
Speaker 1: the local news media, but anonymous communicates and photographs of

2634
02:25:29,520 --> 02:25:35,080
Speaker 1: the incidents and damage circulated online among the radical anarchist

2635
02:25:35,240 --> 02:25:39,080
Speaker 1: mill us. In late June there was the first planned

2636
02:25:39,200 --> 02:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Week of Action. There's been another one since then, and

2637
02:25:42,840 --> 02:25:46,840
Speaker 1: there's another one upcoming from May eight through May fifteenth.

2638
02:25:47,400 --> 02:25:49,280
Speaker 1: We'll talk more about the upcoming Week of Action in

2639
02:25:49,360 --> 02:25:52,000
Speaker 1: the next episode, but I strongly encourage people to travel

2640
02:25:52,040 --> 02:25:53,920
Speaker 1: to Atlanta as soon as possible if you can make

2641
02:25:53,959 --> 02:25:56,920
Speaker 1: it for any of this upcoming weeklung event again, that's

2642
02:25:56,959 --> 02:26:00,560
Speaker 1: from May eight through May. If you make it front

2643
02:26:00,560 --> 02:26:03,160
Speaker 1: of that, please go to Atlanta. It will be it

2644
02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:06,480
Speaker 1: will be fun, I assure you. The June Week of

2645
02:26:06,520 --> 02:26:09,560
Speaker 1: Action featured a guided walks through the forest by day

2646
02:26:09,640 --> 02:26:15,599
Speaker 1: and by moonlight discussion and conversations on ecology, abolitionism, colonialism,

2647
02:26:15,760 --> 02:26:19,680
Speaker 1: and queerness. There was a nightly bonfires and safe open

2648
02:26:19,760 --> 02:26:22,920
Speaker 1: sections of the woods at a nearby radical venue. There

2649
02:26:23,040 --> 02:26:26,440
Speaker 1: was a hardcore punk show during which hundreds of concert

2650
02:26:26,520 --> 02:26:30,320
Speaker 1: goers repelled the buzz kill police who are trying to

2651
02:26:30,360 --> 02:26:33,080
Speaker 1: shut it down. And there was a night rave deep

2652
02:26:33,120 --> 02:26:36,040
Speaker 1: into the woods where five hundred people were dancing with

2653
02:26:36,120 --> 02:26:39,440
Speaker 1: glow sticks late into the night and early into the morning.

2654
02:26:40,200 --> 02:26:43,039
Speaker 1: In all throughout the week of action, thousands of Atlanta's

2655
02:26:43,200 --> 02:26:45,720
Speaker 1: got to gather under the banner of Defend the Forest.

2656
02:26:46,040 --> 02:26:47,880
Speaker 1: They were able to learn about the project and get

2657
02:26:47,920 --> 02:26:51,240
Speaker 1: plugged into taking action. During the week, people under the

2658
02:26:51,280 --> 02:26:53,720
Speaker 1: cover of night visited the home of black Hole Studios

2659
02:26:53,879 --> 02:26:58,480
Speaker 1: CEO Ryan Millsap in the Atlanta suburb of Social Creek. UH.

2660
02:26:58,560 --> 02:27:02,080
Speaker 1: They also visited his second home in Tuxedo Park and

2661
02:27:02,440 --> 02:27:06,760
Speaker 1: the ups he frequents in Edgewood. According to an anonymous

2662
02:27:06,879 --> 02:27:11,279
Speaker 1: online statement, quote flyers were distributed to all his neighbors mailboxes,

2663
02:27:11,320 --> 02:27:13,640
Speaker 1: as well as plastered on his front gate and the

2664
02:27:13,680 --> 02:27:17,480
Speaker 1: streets that he frequents. The flyers let fellow concerned community

2665
02:27:17,520 --> 02:27:20,160
Speaker 1: members know about the harm he is responsible for, and

2666
02:27:20,360 --> 02:27:22,800
Speaker 1: ically provided the address to his one hundred acre farms

2667
02:27:22,840 --> 02:27:26,199
Speaker 1: and that grievances could be addressed there. The flyers placed

2668
02:27:26,200 --> 02:27:29,160
Speaker 1: all throughout his neighborhood and investment properties were also distributed

2669
02:27:29,200 --> 02:27:31,880
Speaker 1: in hopes that it would quote inspire others to research

2670
02:27:32,000 --> 02:27:34,240
Speaker 1: and take the fight to those directly responsible for the

2671
02:27:34,240 --> 02:27:38,480
Speaker 1: destruction of the forest. Two days later, on the final

2672
02:27:38,640 --> 02:27:42,920
Speaker 1: day of the week of action, around fifty protesters marched

2673
02:27:43,000 --> 02:27:46,320
Speaker 1: to the headquarters of the Atlanta Police Foundation, quoting crime

2674
02:27:46,360 --> 02:27:49,480
Speaker 1: Thing again quote. As the crowd emerged from the Five

2675
02:27:49,560 --> 02:27:52,320
Speaker 1: Points metro station, a small contition of officers attempted to

2676
02:27:52,440 --> 02:27:55,120
Speaker 1: arrest somebody. The crowd engaged hand to hand fighting with

2677
02:27:55,160 --> 02:27:58,280
Speaker 1: police and successfully repelled them. Advancing past the security, they

2678
02:27:58,360 --> 02:28:01,440
Speaker 1: marched straight to the Alant Police Foundations office and smashed

2679
02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:04,680
Speaker 1: the glass doors and windows before overturning tables in the

2680
02:28:04,800 --> 02:28:09,000
Speaker 1: towers lobby. According to police, on Friday, around four pm,

2681
02:28:09,400 --> 02:28:13,160
Speaker 1: multiple protesters stopped the flow of traffic on Peachtree Street

2682
02:28:13,240 --> 02:28:17,000
Speaker 1: and Andrew Young International Boulevard. Photos taken by a local

2683
02:28:17,080 --> 02:28:21,840
Speaker 1: freelance photographer showing a group called Defend Atlanta Forest shattering

2684
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:25,960
Speaker 1: glass doors and also holding signs that say our woods,

2685
02:28:26,080 --> 02:28:29,560
Speaker 1: not Hollywood's. CBS forty six reached out to the group

2686
02:28:29,800 --> 02:28:32,880
Speaker 1: but have yet to hear back. Atlanta police believe the

2687
02:28:32,959 --> 02:28:36,760
Speaker 1: protesting ignited over the building of the new public safety

2688
02:28:36,879 --> 02:28:41,680
Speaker 1: training center. When officers arrived, protesters quickly fled the scene,

2689
02:28:41,879 --> 02:28:45,040
Speaker 1: but the damage still remains. At this time, we know

2690
02:28:45,240 --> 02:28:49,160
Speaker 1: no arrests have been made and the investigation continues. In

2691
02:28:49,240 --> 02:28:54,320
Speaker 1: Atlanta on Barbawayans CBS news momentum was growing throughout the summer,

2692
02:28:54,640 --> 02:28:57,800
Speaker 1: Police and corporate press had failed in crafting a counter

2693
02:28:57,959 --> 02:29:01,520
Speaker 1: media strategy. Meanwhile, the Offend the Forest project brought together

2694
02:29:01,680 --> 02:29:06,000
Speaker 1: police and prison abolitionist organizations, environmental justice and preservation organizations,

2695
02:29:06,200 --> 02:29:10,240
Speaker 1: civil and human rights nonprofits, and even neighborhood associations near

2696
02:29:10,400 --> 02:29:13,880
Speaker 1: the proposed site, including the East Atlantic Community Association, the

2697
02:29:14,000 --> 02:29:18,160
Speaker 1: Grant Park Neighborhood Association, South at Lantin's for Neighborhood Development,

2698
02:29:18,520 --> 02:29:22,960
Speaker 1: and the Kirkwood Neighbors Organization, each of which passed resolutions

2699
02:29:23,000 --> 02:29:28,000
Speaker 1: opposing the proposal. Grassroots organizations that mobilized against the proposal

2700
02:29:28,160 --> 02:29:33,279
Speaker 1: included Defend Atlanta Police Department, Refusal Communities, the Atlanta Sunrise movement,

2701
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:36,720
Speaker 1: community movement builders, the South River Forest Coalition, A World

2702
02:29:36,760 --> 02:29:39,920
Speaker 1: Without Police, and the autonomous organizers working under the banner

2703
02:29:40,040 --> 02:29:45,120
Speaker 1: of Defend the Forest. Organizers spread informational flyers and online graphics,

2704
02:29:45,400 --> 02:29:49,760
Speaker 1: conducted interviews, knocked on doors, and organized phone in campaigns

2705
02:29:49,840 --> 02:29:52,560
Speaker 1: during subsequent city council meetings that were still held on

2706
02:29:52,680 --> 02:29:57,280
Speaker 1: zoom because of coronavirus related restrictions. Through in August and September,

2707
02:29:57,480 --> 02:30:01,439
Speaker 1: the Stop Cop City Coalition and others worked to introduce

2708
02:30:01,520 --> 02:30:05,760
Speaker 1: tension and clog up the city council process, digging cues

2709
02:30:05,879 --> 02:30:08,240
Speaker 1: from the protest outside the home of Joyce Shepherd, which

2710
02:30:08,240 --> 02:30:10,880
Speaker 1: resulted in the vote being delayed for over two months.

2711
02:30:11,480 --> 02:30:14,640
Speaker 1: Protesters gathered outside the homes of possible yes voters on

2712
02:30:14,680 --> 02:30:16,640
Speaker 1: the nights that the vote was related to take place,

2713
02:30:17,080 --> 02:30:20,920
Speaker 1: causing further delays in the entire process got pushed back

2714
02:30:21,040 --> 02:30:25,640
Speaker 1: from August into September, so again, another another delay. Briefly

2715
02:30:25,720 --> 02:30:27,720
Speaker 1: it seemed like there was a possibility that the Stop

2716
02:30:27,800 --> 02:30:31,600
Speaker 1: Cop City campaign might be victorious before the end of summer.

2717
02:30:32,320 --> 02:30:34,880
Speaker 1: Votes on the groundle sordidents were repeatedly delayed because of

2718
02:30:34,959 --> 02:30:38,200
Speaker 1: these objections and demonstrations at the homes of Atlanta Chief

2719
02:30:38,320 --> 02:30:44,280
Speaker 1: Operations Officer John Keene and City Councilwoman Madeline Archibond. Eventually,

2720
02:30:44,360 --> 02:30:48,240
Speaker 1: September seven was set as the final vote day. Seventeen

2721
02:30:48,280 --> 02:30:51,520
Speaker 1: hours of pre recorded comments from over one thousand Atlanta

2722
02:30:51,560 --> 02:30:54,840
Speaker 1: residents delayed the discussion. Due to the sheer number of

2723
02:30:54,920 --> 02:30:57,879
Speaker 1: public comments, the vote got pushed back another day as

2724
02:30:58,040 --> 02:31:01,279
Speaker 1: Sydney Council members spent most of Tuesday and Wednesday listening

2725
02:31:01,360 --> 02:31:05,400
Speaker 1: to the playback. After months of organizing, community outreach and

2726
02:31:05,480 --> 02:31:09,359
Speaker 1: public education efforts from these top Cops City organizers, approximately

2727
02:31:10,160 --> 02:31:13,480
Speaker 1: the collars fiercely opposed the proposal, explaining in great detail

2728
02:31:13,520 --> 02:31:16,360
Speaker 1: why they are quote unquote representatives should vote it down.

2729
02:31:17,320 --> 02:31:21,039
Speaker 1: The minority of callers who supported the Cops City project

2730
02:31:21,200 --> 02:31:24,280
Speaker 1: either self identified as residents of the disproportionately white and

2731
02:31:24,360 --> 02:31:28,360
Speaker 1: wealthy Buckhead and Northeast Atlanta area or we're just like

2732
02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:31,880
Speaker 1: actual cops. Uh. At least thirty officers called in to

2733
02:31:32,000 --> 02:31:33,960
Speaker 1: say that they support the instruction of the forest to

2734
02:31:34,080 --> 02:31:38,280
Speaker 1: end the building of Cops City. Big big shocker, the

2735
02:31:38,360 --> 02:31:42,160
Speaker 1: cops what Cops City pro Cops City collars invoked the

2736
02:31:42,440 --> 02:31:46,080
Speaker 1: false crime wave narrative propagated after the George Floyd uprising

2737
02:31:46,640 --> 02:31:49,280
Speaker 1: and used the language of so called white flight by

2738
02:31:49,400 --> 02:31:52,200
Speaker 1: threatening to leave the city if something wasn't done to

2739
02:31:52,280 --> 02:31:57,520
Speaker 1: stop the growing crime wave. Uh And Yet, when the

2740
02:31:57,640 --> 02:32:01,800
Speaker 1: seventeen hours of public comments ended and the council's discussion began,

2741
02:32:02,200 --> 02:32:05,400
Speaker 1: council members largely failed to acknowledge the hours of public

2742
02:32:05,520 --> 02:32:07,840
Speaker 1: comment that they had just spent two days listening to,

2743
02:32:08,720 --> 02:32:12,080
Speaker 1: much less acknowledged the far ranging movement that produced such

2744
02:32:12,240 --> 02:32:16,840
Speaker 1: overwhelming public discontent, quoting crime think again quote as those

2745
02:32:16,879 --> 02:32:20,440
Speaker 1: who study revolutionary movements, No, the police perform an essential

2746
02:32:20,520 --> 02:32:24,480
Speaker 1: function in class society, without which many other hierarchies and

2747
02:32:24,640 --> 02:32:28,240
Speaker 1: exportitive relations could not exist for very long. This is

2748
02:32:28,280 --> 02:32:30,640
Speaker 1: not simply an economic or civic issue that can be

2749
02:32:30,760 --> 02:32:33,440
Speaker 1: worked around with some clever ideas in a bit of

2750
02:32:33,480 --> 02:32:37,800
Speaker 1: pressure unquote. Despite the efforts of organizers, which culminated in

2751
02:32:38,160 --> 02:32:42,800
Speaker 1: seventeen hours of primarily oppositional public comment, the ordinance was

2752
02:32:42,920 --> 02:32:46,880
Speaker 1: passed on September eight, while the police arrested protesters outside

2753
02:32:46,879 --> 02:32:51,000
Speaker 1: the home of councilwoman Madaline Archibong about an hour before

2754
02:32:51,040 --> 02:32:53,680
Speaker 1: the final vote took place. During the Council's final session

2755
02:32:53,760 --> 02:32:56,920
Speaker 1: on September eight, the City Council voted by a margin

2756
02:32:57,080 --> 02:32:58,800
Speaker 1: of ten to four for the creation of the ninety

2757
02:32:58,840 --> 02:33:02,240
Speaker 1: million dollar facility, handing over almost four acres of for

2758
02:33:02,360 --> 02:33:06,119
Speaker 1: us to the Atlanta Police Foundation. Obviously, many folks were

2759
02:33:06,640 --> 02:33:10,280
Speaker 1: pretty disappointed and kind of demoralized about this. UH. Some

2760
02:33:10,520 --> 02:33:14,199
Speaker 1: turned their frustrated energy into the upcoming local elections, hoping

2761
02:33:14,280 --> 02:33:17,160
Speaker 1: that the city government may be stacked with abolitionist or

2762
02:33:17,760 --> 02:33:21,480
Speaker 1: progressive candidates that might strike down the project. Mayor Bottoms

2763
02:33:21,480 --> 02:33:23,520
Speaker 1: did not end up running for re election, and the

2764
02:33:23,640 --> 02:33:27,360
Speaker 1: former mayor of Mayor Read lost to the now current Mayor,

2765
02:33:27,560 --> 02:33:30,680
Speaker 1: Andre dickens Um. I do think it's really funny that

2766
02:33:31,720 --> 02:33:33,960
Speaker 1: the old mayor of Atlanta was Mayor Bottoms and the

2767
02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:37,680
Speaker 1: new and the new mayor is Mayor dickens Um. Anyway, UH,

2768
02:33:37,840 --> 02:33:40,800
Speaker 1: City Councilwoman Joyce Shepard, who introduced the Cops City Plan,

2769
02:33:41,000 --> 02:33:44,000
Speaker 1: also lost her campaign for re election. But since the

2770
02:33:44,080 --> 02:33:47,840
Speaker 1: elections in November, nothing has actually changed regarding the black

2771
02:33:47,920 --> 02:33:50,680
Speaker 1: Hole and Cops City developments are nothing has changed on

2772
02:33:50,800 --> 02:33:55,040
Speaker 1: the electoral front. There's there's no indication of electoral strategi

2773
02:33:55,040 --> 02:33:59,160
Speaker 1: as being impactful, and thankfully not everyone focused their efforts

2774
02:33:59,200 --> 02:34:01,880
Speaker 1: on electoral ref warm. I'll leave you today with this

2775
02:34:01,959 --> 02:34:04,720
Speaker 1: sentiment that I kept hearing during my stay in the forest.

2776
02:34:05,760 --> 02:34:09,000
Speaker 1: When you criminalize a non violent direct action, the end

2777
02:34:09,080 --> 02:34:12,240
Speaker 1: goes away. On the final day of the vote, people

2778
02:34:12,320 --> 02:34:15,400
Speaker 1: went and protested outside a city council member's house, and

2779
02:34:15,480 --> 02:34:17,959
Speaker 1: eleven of them got arrested, despite the fact that they

2780
02:34:18,000 --> 02:34:21,560
Speaker 1: were already dispersing and following orders. During the top line

2781
02:34:21,640 --> 02:34:24,680
Speaker 1: three movement, people were receiving felony theft charges for using

2782
02:34:24,720 --> 02:34:28,200
Speaker 1: lock boxes to attach themselves onto construction equipment um, which

2783
02:34:28,280 --> 02:34:31,160
Speaker 1: of recent hasn't even really been an effective strategy resulting

2784
02:34:31,160 --> 02:34:34,080
Speaker 1: in any material winds. But if they're going to arrest

2785
02:34:34,120 --> 02:34:36,440
Speaker 1: you for standing outside of a politician's house and give

2786
02:34:36,480 --> 02:34:39,240
Speaker 1: you charges, you may as well consider doing something a

2787
02:34:39,280 --> 02:34:42,360
Speaker 1: bit more spicy. If you're gonna get felonies for basic

2788
02:34:42,480 --> 02:34:45,680
Speaker 1: non violent direct action like locking yourself onto machinery, you

2789
02:34:45,800 --> 02:34:48,440
Speaker 1: may as well light that machinery on fire. When non

2790
02:34:48,560 --> 02:34:51,560
Speaker 1: violent direct action result in felony charges, if they're going

2791
02:34:51,640 --> 02:34:54,120
Speaker 1: to criminalize standing outside of a politician's house and holding

2792
02:34:54,160 --> 02:34:56,640
Speaker 1: a sign, then going into the forest and doing monkey

2793
02:34:56,680 --> 02:35:00,920
Speaker 1: wrenching suddenly becomes a very similar consequence level, and the

2794
02:35:01,000 --> 02:35:03,360
Speaker 1: action that can be done in secret turns out to

2795
02:35:03,480 --> 02:35:06,760
Speaker 1: be actually a bit easier to get away with. The

2796
02:35:06,800 --> 02:35:08,959
Speaker 1: funny thing is is that this is the state's fault,

2797
02:35:09,040 --> 02:35:12,920
Speaker 1: not anyone else's fault. When state repression against public non

2798
02:35:13,000 --> 02:35:17,119
Speaker 1: destructive tactics increases, then what happens is the less public

2799
02:35:17,240 --> 02:35:20,720
Speaker 1: and more fiery tactics, which in this movement we're already present.

2800
02:35:21,320 --> 02:35:24,120
Speaker 1: We'll just end up becoming more and more prominent and

2801
02:35:24,200 --> 02:35:27,680
Speaker 1: even more integral to keep the movement going. In the

2802
02:35:27,840 --> 02:35:30,560
Speaker 1: next episode, we'll hear about how the more radical folks

2803
02:35:30,640 --> 02:35:33,640
Speaker 1: continue to defend the forest after the vote, and you'll

2804
02:35:33,680 --> 02:35:36,360
Speaker 1: hear a lot more from the force defenders that I interviewed.

2805
02:35:36,959 --> 02:35:39,800
Speaker 1: And finally, if you can please head to Atlanta if

2806
02:35:39,800 --> 02:35:42,039
Speaker 1: you're able to, for the upcoming week of action from

2807
02:35:42,120 --> 02:35:45,640
Speaker 1: A eight through. More boots on the ground are crucial

2808
02:35:45,800 --> 02:35:49,080
Speaker 1: as the large scale destruction of the forest is becoming

2809
02:35:49,200 --> 02:35:52,120
Speaker 1: more and more imminent. You can go to Defend the

2810
02:35:52,200 --> 02:35:55,959
Speaker 1: Atlanta Forest dot com and scenes dot no blogs dot

2811
02:35:56,080 --> 02:35:59,040
Speaker 1: org for more information. See you on the other side.

2812
02:36:13,000 --> 02:36:16,560
Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis

2813
02:36:16,720 --> 02:36:19,200
Speaker 1: and this is part two of the two part mini

2814
02:36:19,280 --> 02:36:22,560
Speaker 1: series on the Defended the Forest Movement in Atlanta, Georgia.

2815
02:36:23,520 --> 02:36:26,080
Speaker 1: Last month, I traveled to Atlanta to stay a week

2816
02:36:26,160 --> 02:36:28,560
Speaker 1: in the woods and talk with some of the Forest offenders.

2817
02:36:29,080 --> 02:36:31,480
Speaker 1: In the previous episode, I covered the movement from its

2818
02:36:31,520 --> 02:36:34,240
Speaker 1: inception to where the city council approved the Cops City

2819
02:36:34,320 --> 02:36:37,320
Speaker 1: project near the end of last summer. I went over

2820
02:36:37,440 --> 02:36:40,800
Speaker 1: a lot of historical background between the land itself and

2821
02:36:40,879 --> 02:36:45,440
Speaker 1: the history there, the increasing gentrification of Atlanta, how the

2822
02:36:45,520 --> 02:36:48,680
Speaker 1: movement pulled the veil off the secretive plans for Cops

2823
02:36:48,680 --> 02:36:51,560
Speaker 1: City and pushed it into the public spotlight. We talked

2824
02:36:51,560 --> 02:36:54,120
Speaker 1: about the early days of sabotage and the targeting of

2825
02:36:54,200 --> 02:36:57,720
Speaker 1: individuals and positions of power. Basically, I did a lot

2826
02:36:57,800 --> 02:37:00,760
Speaker 1: of a lot of talking, maybe maybe too much talking.

2827
02:37:01,480 --> 02:37:04,280
Speaker 1: This episode will be more led by the discussions with

2828
02:37:04,360 --> 02:37:07,720
Speaker 1: Forest offenders that I had during my weeklong excursion to

2829
02:37:07,959 --> 02:37:11,000
Speaker 1: the woods. We'll learn about how the movement evolved in

2830
02:37:11,080 --> 02:37:13,480
Speaker 1: the wake of the city council vote up until the

2831
02:37:13,640 --> 02:37:17,320
Speaker 1: current state of affairs. One thing that makes to Defend

2832
02:37:17,360 --> 02:37:21,160
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Forest Movement very different from previous eco defense

2833
02:37:21,200 --> 02:37:23,800
Speaker 1: projects in recent memory is that it's right in the

2834
02:37:23,840 --> 02:37:27,160
Speaker 1: middle of a sprawling metropolitan area. Right outside the forest

2835
02:37:27,360 --> 02:37:30,520
Speaker 1: is an Amazon facility. Downtown Atlanta is just a ten

2836
02:37:30,640 --> 02:37:33,840
Speaker 1: minute drive away. We'll be talking tactics a bit later

2837
02:37:33,959 --> 02:37:36,400
Speaker 1: on in the episode, but just the simple nature of

2838
02:37:36,480 --> 02:37:40,040
Speaker 1: doing a forest equo defense project while still inside the

2839
02:37:40,120 --> 02:37:44,240
Speaker 1: city gives a lot of pretty interesting tactical opportunities. You

2840
02:37:44,320 --> 02:37:47,119
Speaker 1: have to selectively use some of the older, more rule

2841
02:37:47,240 --> 02:37:50,520
Speaker 1: equo defensive strategies while having the backing of a city

2842
02:37:50,600 --> 02:37:54,560
Speaker 1: based mutual aid network. There's the option of rapid response

2843
02:37:54,640 --> 02:37:58,119
Speaker 1: popular mobilization that city based protests can have but are

2844
02:37:58,560 --> 02:38:01,920
Speaker 1: more challenging for equatif and stuff that's like three hours

2845
02:38:02,000 --> 02:38:04,960
Speaker 1: into the middle of nowhere. For the people camping in

2846
02:38:05,040 --> 02:38:07,800
Speaker 1: the forest, they can easily get supplies or switch out

2847
02:38:07,879 --> 02:38:10,240
Speaker 1: who's staying in the woods and who's living in the city.

2848
02:38:11,000 --> 02:38:15,240
Speaker 1: The combination of forest and urban prompts and necessitates the

2849
02:38:15,440 --> 02:38:19,240
Speaker 1: crucial experimentation and innovation that's been badly needed in eco

2850
02:38:19,280 --> 02:38:22,880
Speaker 1: defense projects and protests for the past decade. There's a

2851
02:38:22,959 --> 02:38:25,080
Speaker 1: lot of trains to go by here. It's really pretty,

2852
02:38:25,560 --> 02:38:28,440
Speaker 1: so it's definitely the most urban forest defen I've ever

2853
02:38:28,520 --> 02:38:31,880
Speaker 1: been a partner. But it's really beautiful and unique to

2854
02:38:32,000 --> 02:38:35,880
Speaker 1: see a lot of urban the city be able to

2855
02:38:35,959 --> 02:38:38,560
Speaker 1: be involved and like urban tactics kind of mixing with

2856
02:38:39,400 --> 02:38:43,640
Speaker 1: yet more traditional, more earth firsty forest tactics. It's kind

2857
02:38:43,680 --> 02:38:45,440
Speaker 1: of like the rule book and a lot of people

2858
02:38:45,480 --> 02:38:48,879
Speaker 1: saying this like it's repeated, the quote unquote rule book

2859
02:38:48,920 --> 02:38:52,760
Speaker 1: for how to indeede with the multiple enemies in this

2860
02:38:52,959 --> 02:38:56,240
Speaker 1: area has been like chewed up, spit out, shadow and

2861
02:38:56,400 --> 02:38:58,960
Speaker 1: burnt over because it we're kind of doing something that

2862
02:38:59,160 --> 02:39:02,400
Speaker 1: doesn't really happened a lot. Something similar I can think

2863
02:39:02,440 --> 02:39:05,400
Speaker 1: of is the Sacred Old Grove that was being protected

2864
02:39:06,160 --> 02:39:10,480
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis in the late nineties maybe thousands, and that

2865
02:39:10,760 --> 02:39:15,200
Speaker 1: was another kind of anarchists alliance at the big earth

2866
02:39:15,320 --> 02:39:18,000
Speaker 1: first presence. But that's kind of one of the more

2867
02:39:18,160 --> 02:39:21,800
Speaker 1: urban in this part of Turtle Island struggles I can

2868
02:39:21,879 --> 02:39:23,840
Speaker 1: think of like this, but this is unlike anything I've

2869
02:39:23,879 --> 02:39:28,240
Speaker 1: ever I think. Another interesting part is like a lot

2870
02:39:28,280 --> 02:39:31,680
Speaker 1: of force defense stuff is focused on like old growth,

2871
02:39:31,840 --> 02:39:35,400
Speaker 1: being like we should defend it because it's old growth. Yeah,

2872
02:39:35,480 --> 02:39:37,120
Speaker 1: this is not an old growth. For this is like

2873
02:39:37,200 --> 02:39:42,480
Speaker 1: a messy, dirty um confusing. I've gotten lost so many times.

2874
02:39:43,120 --> 02:39:46,680
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I just did there's tires, there's barrels where

2875
02:39:46,680 --> 02:39:48,200
Speaker 1: it was built. On the prison farm, you'll find like

2876
02:39:48,280 --> 02:39:50,640
Speaker 1: old portions of the prison which is incredibly fucked up

2877
02:39:50,640 --> 02:39:52,760
Speaker 1: and haunted, right, Like in terms of like haunting is

2878
02:39:52,800 --> 02:39:54,800
Speaker 1: like there's the specter of what used to be there.

2879
02:39:55,160 --> 02:39:57,160
Speaker 1: Police are trying to build over it with their more

2880
02:39:57,400 --> 02:39:59,800
Speaker 1: like a bomb range, right, It's like that's very much

2881
02:39:59,879 --> 02:40:04,040
Speaker 1: like they're just building over the thing. Um. But it

2882
02:40:04,120 --> 02:40:06,600
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be old growth to be worth defending.

2883
02:40:06,800 --> 02:40:09,560
Speaker 1: And that's an idea that I think people need to

2884
02:40:09,680 --> 02:40:12,720
Speaker 1: understand more, is like it has value even if it's

2885
02:40:12,879 --> 02:40:15,640
Speaker 1: not like five hundred years old. Like it has value

2886
02:40:15,720 --> 02:40:19,160
Speaker 1: despite not despite being one hundred year old old forest,

2887
02:40:19,200 --> 02:40:21,160
Speaker 1: and it's about because it is in one forests. Like

2888
02:40:21,160 --> 02:40:23,440
Speaker 1: it has value because it is a forest in a city,

2889
02:40:23,920 --> 02:40:28,199
Speaker 1: and that's something that's worth like emphasizing. Yeah, I also

2890
02:40:28,320 --> 02:40:30,119
Speaker 1: think that's cool. And like people talk a lot about

2891
02:40:30,120 --> 02:40:33,000
Speaker 1: like invasive plants and there's like I think the Brandford

2892
02:40:33,040 --> 02:40:35,320
Speaker 1: pairs in this forest are a really interesting example. There

2893
02:40:35,360 --> 02:40:37,360
Speaker 1: are these trees that are like feral. They used to

2894
02:40:37,440 --> 02:40:40,000
Speaker 1: be part like planted here when it was a um

2895
02:40:41,040 --> 02:40:44,840
Speaker 1: the farm plantation or whatever, and um those trees are

2896
02:40:44,879 --> 02:40:49,080
Speaker 1: fucking spiky, fine trees. They're spiking ship. Well but you know,

2897
02:40:49,160 --> 02:40:51,000
Speaker 1: the good news is they're awful, and the bad news

2898
02:40:51,080 --> 02:40:53,520
Speaker 1: is they're awful. Like I know where there are when

2899
02:40:53,560 --> 02:40:57,000
Speaker 1: I halass in the forest, I usually don't get Bradford

2900
02:40:57,000 --> 02:41:00,480
Speaker 1: pair in my eye, but um, but some chasing the

2901
02:41:00,840 --> 02:41:03,440
Speaker 1: cap well yeah, and and so it's just it's cool

2902
02:41:03,520 --> 02:41:05,600
Speaker 1: to kind of interact with all these things and get

2903
02:41:05,640 --> 02:41:07,920
Speaker 1: to choose how you want to interact and like, yeah,

2904
02:41:07,920 --> 02:41:11,959
Speaker 1: it is a um you know, I think it's interesting.

2905
02:41:12,080 --> 02:41:15,600
Speaker 1: It's not yeah, like a traditional forest or like whatever

2906
02:41:15,720 --> 02:41:19,080
Speaker 1: forest that people would value in that way. Um, but

2907
02:41:19,320 --> 02:41:22,960
Speaker 1: for me, I connect to it, I think even more

2908
02:41:23,080 --> 02:41:25,320
Speaker 1: than that, because it's not this like held up is

2909
02:41:25,400 --> 02:41:27,960
Speaker 1: this thing of like purity, like they fucking buildoz and

2910
02:41:28,080 --> 02:41:30,920
Speaker 1: like a month later that ship was overgrown. You couldn't

2911
02:41:30,920 --> 02:41:33,680
Speaker 1: see it again. And that was all quote unquote invasive

2912
02:41:33,800 --> 02:41:36,360
Speaker 1: plants like whatever funk that means, which is often that's

2913
02:41:36,360 --> 02:41:38,959
Speaker 1: the whole thing. They're often racialized plants. You know. It's

2914
02:41:39,400 --> 02:41:44,200
Speaker 1: it's almost like a punk forest. It's like we're surrounded

2915
02:41:44,240 --> 02:41:48,120
Speaker 1: by enemies. And that is the problem is, um, they

2916
02:41:48,200 --> 02:41:50,680
Speaker 1: see this as a cess pool, and something I talked

2917
02:41:50,680 --> 02:41:52,440
Speaker 1: to a lot of liberals about, like when they're taught,

2918
02:41:52,440 --> 02:41:54,240
Speaker 1: we're talking them about defend the forest, like, oh, is

2919
02:41:54,280 --> 02:41:58,240
Speaker 1: it a pristine wilderness with large old growth trees, and like,

2920
02:41:58,360 --> 02:42:01,080
Speaker 1: you know what, that would be cool. The problem is

2921
02:42:01,280 --> 02:42:03,800
Speaker 1: this forest needs to be allowed to return to that

2922
02:42:04,000 --> 02:42:06,920
Speaker 1: because there's been so much abuse and part of like

2923
02:42:07,000 --> 02:42:08,840
Speaker 1: whether I don't know what it means to quote unquote

2924
02:42:08,879 --> 02:42:10,960
Speaker 1: win or lose, but there's a lot of little winds

2925
02:42:11,040 --> 02:42:12,720
Speaker 1: and losses all along the way, and we've had a

2926
02:42:12,760 --> 02:42:15,000
Speaker 1: lot of winds. There is some big cheese that are

2927
02:42:15,040 --> 02:42:17,560
Speaker 1: left in the forest. They're legally supposed to leave all

2928
02:42:17,600 --> 02:42:23,760
Speaker 1: the big trees by the creek, But from what historical um, president,

2929
02:42:24,000 --> 02:42:27,080
Speaker 1: do we trust the cops to quote unquote be accountable

2930
02:42:27,120 --> 02:42:29,760
Speaker 1: to anyone? I don't know where we're thinking that. I've

2931
02:42:29,800 --> 02:42:31,240
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of people be like, oh, some

2932
02:42:31,320 --> 02:42:33,800
Speaker 1: of these three houses are strategic. Then in the spots

2933
02:42:33,840 --> 02:42:36,720
Speaker 1: they can't cut, and I cannot. Friends. I've looked at

2934
02:42:36,760 --> 02:42:38,680
Speaker 1: the map and it looks like this whole motherfucking play

2935
02:42:38,720 --> 02:42:42,160
Speaker 1: is Society for clear Cutting. Exactly one month after the

2936
02:42:42,200 --> 02:42:44,840
Speaker 1: city council voted to approve the land Ley's ordinance for

2937
02:42:44,959 --> 02:42:47,920
Speaker 1: cops City that defend the force slogan was put to

2938
02:42:48,040 --> 02:42:54,480
Speaker 1: the test. On October, contractors and land survey workers showed

2939
02:42:54,560 --> 02:42:57,040
Speaker 1: up around the forest and appeared to be clearing land

2940
02:42:57,160 --> 02:43:01,119
Speaker 1: to take reference photos and collect soil sample. Two dozen

2941
02:43:01,200 --> 02:43:04,000
Speaker 1: force defenders emerged from the woods and confronted the workers.

2942
02:43:04,560 --> 02:43:07,199
Speaker 1: The people hired to destroy the forest fled the work site,

2943
02:43:07,520 --> 02:43:10,720
Speaker 1: and after they left, police surveillance tower in the area

2944
02:43:10,920 --> 02:43:13,640
Speaker 1: was toppled and the force defenders were able to disperse

2945
02:43:13,959 --> 02:43:17,640
Speaker 1: with no arrests. Ten days later, a similar turn of

2946
02:43:17,680 --> 02:43:21,160
Speaker 1: events took place. A group of survey workers and construction

2947
02:43:21,200 --> 02:43:24,160
Speaker 1: teams were on site. Again, a small group of rapid

2948
02:43:24,200 --> 02:43:27,800
Speaker 1: response Force defenders disrupted the surveying and ground clearing at

2949
02:43:27,840 --> 02:43:31,120
Speaker 1: the old Atlanta Prison Farm. Simply the mere threat of

2950
02:43:31,280 --> 02:43:34,680
Speaker 1: an on site protest shut down construction for the whole day.

2951
02:43:35,280 --> 02:43:38,560
Speaker 1: Key access points for machinery were blocked using available materials

2952
02:43:38,680 --> 02:43:42,720
Speaker 1: like piles of nearby tires, preventing vehicular machinery from moving

2953
02:43:42,840 --> 02:43:47,120
Speaker 1: freely through the destruction site. No construction occurred, despite the

2954
02:43:47,200 --> 02:43:51,119
Speaker 1: attempts of the Decab County Police and the Atlanta Police Department,

2955
02:43:51,200 --> 02:43:54,520
Speaker 1: who mobilized twenty vehicles in the vicinity of the forest

2956
02:43:54,920 --> 02:43:58,280
Speaker 1: in an effort to prevent the protest or punish the participants.

2957
02:43:59,000 --> 02:44:00,680
Speaker 1: By the end of the day, no was arrested, and

2958
02:44:00,800 --> 02:44:04,840
Speaker 1: yet again, select monitoring systems and police surveillance towers were

2959
02:44:04,920 --> 02:44:09,760
Speaker 1: toppled and dismantled. A statement released online from anonymous force

2960
02:44:09,840 --> 02:44:13,640
Speaker 1: defenders read quote, this war will be one, one battle

2961
02:44:13,720 --> 02:44:16,720
Speaker 1: at a time. Pressure must continue in a variety of

2962
02:44:16,800 --> 02:44:20,760
Speaker 1: ways to halt all construction. It became clear that for

2963
02:44:20,920 --> 02:44:23,680
Speaker 1: the next phase of the struggle to defend the force,

2964
02:44:23,760 --> 02:44:27,119
Speaker 1: people would have to directly target and oppose the contracting

2965
02:44:27,160 --> 02:44:30,720
Speaker 1: companies hired to decimate the woods and build the facilities.

2966
02:44:31,680 --> 02:44:33,680
Speaker 1: Today we know of at least three companies that have

2967
02:44:33,760 --> 02:44:36,680
Speaker 1: been contracted by the Atlanta Police Foundation to do work

2968
02:44:36,800 --> 02:44:40,280
Speaker 1: on the old prison farm land. Some of the surveying

2969
02:44:40,320 --> 02:44:43,920
Speaker 1: work appears to be done by Long Engineering, and two companies,

2970
02:44:44,160 --> 02:44:47,480
Speaker 1: Reeves Young Construction and brass Field and Gory, were hired

2971
02:44:47,520 --> 02:44:50,400
Speaker 1: to do grounds clearing and early construction. It is not

2972
02:44:50,600 --> 02:44:53,360
Speaker 1: yet clear who will be contracted to clear the land

2973
02:44:53,440 --> 02:44:56,600
Speaker 1: in Entrenchment Creek Park, where Black Hole Studios hopes to

2974
02:44:56,680 --> 02:45:00,520
Speaker 1: expand their sound stage again quoting the crime Think article

2975
02:45:00,760 --> 02:45:03,400
Speaker 1: the City in the Forest Reinventing Resistance for an age

2976
02:45:03,440 --> 02:45:07,600
Speaker 1: of climate crisis and police militarization quote. The information that

2977
02:45:07,720 --> 02:45:10,480
Speaker 1: is known to date was hard won by diligent activists

2978
02:45:10,680 --> 02:45:14,240
Speaker 1: on the ground. Shortly after the city council voted in September,

2979
02:45:14,640 --> 02:45:18,040
Speaker 1: surveyors and small work crews began entering the site near

2980
02:45:18,160 --> 02:45:22,160
Speaker 1: two key roads. The trucks and uniforms revealed the names

2981
02:45:22,200 --> 02:45:25,200
Speaker 1: of the contractors, which once again gave opponents of the

2982
02:45:25,320 --> 02:45:28,160
Speaker 1: Cops City project a chance to initiate a struggle on

2983
02:45:28,280 --> 02:45:32,440
Speaker 1: their own terms. Had the force defenders utilized only virtual

2984
02:45:32,640 --> 02:45:35,840
Speaker 1: or bureaucratic channels to collect information, they might not have

2985
02:45:35,959 --> 02:45:38,040
Speaker 1: learned that Reeves Young were being called in to do

2986
02:45:38,120 --> 02:45:41,280
Speaker 1: the actual destruction until it was publicly announced much later.

2987
02:45:41,959 --> 02:45:44,040
Speaker 1: The ability to break news to the public before the

2988
02:45:44,080 --> 02:45:47,680
Speaker 1: city government has been a consistent advantage in trying to

2989
02:45:47,800 --> 02:45:50,320
Speaker 1: keep the momentum of the movement going. Post the city

2990
02:45:50,360 --> 02:45:53,560
Speaker 1: council vote, a second week of action was planned for November,

2991
02:45:53,840 --> 02:45:59,560
Speaker 1: albeit with some new twists. From November tenth through, various

2992
02:45:59,600 --> 02:46:04,000
Speaker 1: groups organized a wide range of cultural events, info nits, bonfires,

2993
02:46:04,120 --> 02:46:06,960
Speaker 1: and meetings for this Week of Action. Many of these

2994
02:46:07,000 --> 02:46:10,480
Speaker 1: events occurred in or near a publicly advertised encampment on

2995
02:46:10,600 --> 02:46:14,520
Speaker 1: the Entrenchment Creek Park side of the forest. Days after

2996
02:46:14,600 --> 02:46:17,560
Speaker 1: the second Week of Action, thirty people converged on the

2997
02:46:17,720 --> 02:46:21,800
Speaker 1: Reeves Young Construction headquarters in sugar Hill, Georgia, forty miles

2998
02:46:21,840 --> 02:46:25,880
Speaker 1: outside of Atlanta, holding banners and demanding that the company

2999
02:46:25,959 --> 02:46:29,120
Speaker 1: severed their contract with the Atlanta Police Foundation. The group

3000
02:46:29,200 --> 02:46:31,520
Speaker 1: was able to walk right into the offices, disrupting a

3001
02:46:31,600 --> 02:46:37,080
Speaker 1: board meeting involving company president Dean Reeves and CEO Eric Young. Initially,

3002
02:46:37,120 --> 02:46:40,200
Speaker 1: the executives tried to keep their cool, but in short

3003
02:46:40,280 --> 02:46:43,640
Speaker 1: time the businessmen started getting more annoyed and eventually violence

3004
02:46:43,680 --> 02:46:47,560
Speaker 1: towards the protest. There was a protest that it was

3005
02:46:47,720 --> 02:46:51,600
Speaker 1: at the Reeves Young office. Went into the office, Disrand

3006
02:46:51,959 --> 02:46:55,360
Speaker 1: disrupted a board member meeting that happened to have a

3007
02:46:55,560 --> 02:46:58,520
Speaker 1: lot of the people who were like seers and chairman

3008
02:46:58,640 --> 02:47:05,520
Speaker 1: there and um, from what I gather as a brawl. Yeah,

3009
02:47:05,879 --> 02:47:10,840
Speaker 1: I know, there's reports of the Reeves CEO guy like

3010
02:47:10,959 --> 02:47:15,800
Speaker 1: punching punching protesters. There's a joke that a worker puts

3011
02:47:15,840 --> 02:47:18,800
Speaker 1: someone a guillotine, and I love the version of these

3012
02:47:18,840 --> 02:47:29,680
Speaker 1: workers doing ww referred to love We'll love from more

3013
02:47:29,760 --> 02:47:32,200
Speaker 1: cop fights fights with cops to just be w W

3014
02:47:32,320 --> 02:47:45,720
Speaker 1: E style match. Disrupting the board of meeting was another

3015
02:47:45,800 --> 02:47:49,240
Speaker 1: successful step in the goal of applying direct confrontational pressure

3016
02:47:49,480 --> 02:47:54,600
Speaker 1: to the Atlanta Police foundations contracted construction service providers. Days later,

3017
02:47:54,920 --> 02:47:59,200
Speaker 1: two more bulldozers were lit on fire entertaining about the

3018
02:48:01,240 --> 02:48:10,600
Speaker 1: road and sit. We got two construction vehicles all involved

3019
02:48:10,879 --> 02:48:14,680
Speaker 1: in the till Radio quid and simpedia my location as well.

3020
02:48:15,280 --> 02:48:20,039
Speaker 1: There this equipment was located on the land swap parcel

3021
02:48:20,120 --> 02:48:23,600
Speaker 1: by Black Hall Studios, the planned future location of quote

3022
02:48:23,720 --> 02:48:28,760
Speaker 1: Michelle Obama Park unquote. These were the eleventh and twelve

3023
02:48:28,879 --> 02:48:32,280
Speaker 1: pieces of heavy machinery to be sabotaged, and I think

3024
02:48:32,400 --> 02:48:36,640
Speaker 1: now we're at like around twenty five, which is a

3025
02:48:36,720 --> 02:48:41,080
Speaker 1: lot um. The anonymous communicate this time was short and

3026
02:48:41,240 --> 02:48:44,400
Speaker 1: to the point, quote we burnt two bulldozers in the

3027
02:48:44,520 --> 02:48:48,240
Speaker 1: South Atlanta forest. No coups city, no Hollywood dystopia, defend

3028
02:48:48,280 --> 02:48:52,840
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Forest on top of the more publicly advertised

3029
02:48:52,959 --> 02:48:56,440
Speaker 1: encampment at Entrenchmant Creek Park. Around the second week of action,

3030
02:48:56,600 --> 02:48:59,920
Speaker 1: a small cluster force defenders set up a secondary, more

3031
02:49:00,160 --> 02:49:03,520
Speaker 1: secretive encampment on a stretch of woods in the old

3032
02:49:03,560 --> 02:49:07,880
Speaker 1: Atlanta prison Farm. Again quoting the crimes article quote, a

3033
02:49:07,959 --> 02:49:11,600
Speaker 1: few dozen people pitched tents, erected harps and makeshift kitchens,

3034
02:49:11,920 --> 02:49:16,119
Speaker 1: hung banners, and constructed a bonafid protest camp in the woods.

3035
02:49:17,040 --> 02:49:19,760
Speaker 1: Establishing a semi permanent presence in the forest was a

3036
02:49:19,800 --> 02:49:23,000
Speaker 1: way to gather information on an ongoing basis and to

3037
02:49:23,120 --> 02:49:29,920
Speaker 1: provide an immediate deterrent to developers. So I was involved

3038
02:49:29,959 --> 02:49:34,680
Speaker 1: in the original occupation of the forest. There was a

3039
02:49:34,800 --> 02:49:40,000
Speaker 1: group of individuals who many of whom we're housing and secure,

3040
02:49:40,280 --> 02:49:44,200
Speaker 1: and we're like, we need fucking housing, and like there's

3041
02:49:44,240 --> 02:49:46,560
Speaker 1: this struggle and we believe in it and a fight

3042
02:49:46,640 --> 02:49:49,400
Speaker 1: in it, and so we moved to the fucking woods

3043
02:49:49,760 --> 02:49:55,280
Speaker 1: and we've lived in these woods. Official time is six

3044
02:49:55,400 --> 02:49:58,520
Speaker 1: weeks that we were in the woods, and we had

3045
02:49:58,560 --> 02:50:01,720
Speaker 1: a higher quality of life, been like many people who

3046
02:50:02,440 --> 02:50:06,080
Speaker 1: lived in houses and apartments. We had the nicest kitchen

3047
02:50:06,280 --> 02:50:12,240
Speaker 1: of anyone we knew we had. Yeah, we had armchairs

3048
02:50:12,480 --> 02:50:16,240
Speaker 1: and couches and fire pits and we you know, we

3049
02:50:16,360 --> 02:50:18,440
Speaker 1: had more food than we knew what to do with.

3050
02:50:18,920 --> 02:50:23,720
Speaker 1: And so we just started feeding people, and like we

3051
02:50:23,879 --> 02:50:27,360
Speaker 1: created a social space that allowed the movement to drow

3052
02:50:28,160 --> 02:50:31,240
Speaker 1: simply because we're like, well, we need these needs man

3053
02:50:31,560 --> 02:50:34,040
Speaker 1: in our lives. Don't we go do that? And that

3054
02:50:34,240 --> 02:50:38,080
Speaker 1: like evolved over time. A little over a month after

3055
02:50:38,160 --> 02:50:41,800
Speaker 1: the more secretive encampment was established, about a dozen protesters,

3056
02:50:42,040 --> 02:50:44,960
Speaker 1: some bearing witch hats, marched to the gate of Black

3057
02:50:45,040 --> 02:50:48,800
Speaker 1: Hole Studios on Constitution Road and blocked the main entrance.

3058
02:50:49,560 --> 02:50:53,640
Speaker 1: A communicate posted online read quote iconic spells for destruction

3059
02:50:53,720 --> 02:50:57,080
Speaker 1: were loudly chanted at black Halls general direction as the

3060
02:50:57,160 --> 02:51:01,160
Speaker 1: witch block held hands, cackled and skipped the sun wise direction,

3061
02:51:01,560 --> 02:51:05,760
Speaker 1: blocking Black Hole studios main entrance. Smoke torches were lit.

3062
02:51:06,879 --> 02:51:10,959
Speaker 1: Approximately one hour post which block antics, the Cab County

3063
02:51:11,040 --> 02:51:13,840
Speaker 1: Police responded to a call made by Black Hole Studios

3064
02:51:14,240 --> 02:51:17,520
Speaker 1: saying that they quote followed the protesters into the woods

3065
02:51:17,760 --> 02:51:21,640
Speaker 1: and deduced an encampment they came upon must belong to

3066
02:51:21,760 --> 02:51:28,600
Speaker 1: the apparent witches unquote, which is quite the sentence. Shortly after,

3067
02:51:28,760 --> 02:51:32,200
Speaker 1: a large contingent of police raided the forest, evicting the

3068
02:51:32,320 --> 02:51:39,960
Speaker 1: protest camp established there. There was at one point and

3069
02:51:40,920 --> 02:51:49,000
Speaker 1: help a demonstration outside of Black Holes outside of black

3070
02:51:49,080 --> 02:52:00,480
Speaker 1: Holes site and they express the discontent. Yeah, an entirely

3071
02:52:00,560 --> 02:52:03,160
Speaker 1: like peaceful protests at Black Hall Studios. That was like

3072
02:52:03,840 --> 02:52:06,720
Speaker 1: just kind of standing in like the front gate where

3073
02:52:06,879 --> 02:52:10,840
Speaker 1: employees leave and enter UM and generally doing stuff like

3074
02:52:10,879 --> 02:52:14,720
Speaker 1: bringing American flags, holding signs like um and just like

3075
02:52:14,840 --> 02:52:18,160
Speaker 1: taking up space and making the actual interns and leaving

3076
02:52:18,240 --> 02:52:24,080
Speaker 1: of the facility like less doable. And their response was

3077
02:52:25,000 --> 02:52:27,880
Speaker 1: for a Black Hall to lie and so like the

3078
02:52:28,040 --> 02:52:31,800
Speaker 1: camp and Cammon wasn't trespassing on their property which was

3079
02:52:31,840 --> 02:52:34,640
Speaker 1: actually in place in of like a public park, Um

3080
02:52:34,879 --> 02:52:41,960
Speaker 1: and orchestrated with the police to evict Um. And they

3081
02:52:42,080 --> 02:52:46,160
Speaker 1: orchestraed with the police to do like a pretty like

3082
02:52:46,879 --> 02:52:51,400
Speaker 1: intense eviction for like. But it was essentially we were,

3083
02:52:51,560 --> 02:52:55,520
Speaker 1: what a moment to a homeless camp living there, and

3084
02:52:56,320 --> 02:53:01,240
Speaker 1: they had two helicopters circling more police that I could count.

3085
02:53:01,320 --> 02:53:04,040
Speaker 1: They were throwing our ship into dump trucks and like

3086
02:53:05,879 --> 02:53:09,760
Speaker 1: actively like pursuing people through the woods. It was like

3087
02:53:10,680 --> 02:53:15,360
Speaker 1: an absolutely I mean it was like like very like

3088
02:53:15,720 --> 02:53:19,360
Speaker 1: visible show of force against us. Quoting the crime Thing

3089
02:53:19,480 --> 02:53:22,320
Speaker 1: article again quote at the urging of Black Hall, the

3090
02:53:22,400 --> 02:53:25,920
Speaker 1: cab County Police entered the forest on mass mobilizing police

3091
02:53:25,959 --> 02:53:29,040
Speaker 1: cruisers and the parking lot officers on foot, helicopters and

3092
02:53:29,120 --> 02:53:33,359
Speaker 1: drones overhead, and unmarked vehicles in the streets. The officers

3093
02:53:33,400 --> 02:53:36,440
Speaker 1: were likely intimidated by the low visibility to rain. In

3094
02:53:36,640 --> 02:53:39,200
Speaker 1: any event, all of the force defenders based in the

3095
02:53:39,320 --> 02:53:43,080
Speaker 1: encampment escaped without being detained. This was the first time

3096
02:53:43,280 --> 02:53:46,119
Speaker 1: a concerted effort was made by law enforcement to engage

3097
02:53:46,160 --> 02:53:50,480
Speaker 1: protesters in the South River Forest. And to be honest,

3098
02:53:50,520 --> 02:53:52,520
Speaker 1: it was a fucking pain in the ass and it

3099
02:53:52,640 --> 02:53:57,000
Speaker 1: was a traumatizing event. And that is all true. But

3100
02:53:57,120 --> 02:54:01,160
Speaker 1: it's also even we learned from and like we got

3101
02:54:01,280 --> 02:54:05,120
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea of like ap d s and

3102
02:54:05,400 --> 02:54:09,800
Speaker 1: like they have counties, uh like capabilities, and like how

3103
02:54:10,000 --> 02:54:14,040
Speaker 1: they are like surveilling things protests and how they're surveilling

3104
02:54:14,160 --> 02:54:16,920
Speaker 1: camps and like how they figured out where we were,

3105
02:54:17,240 --> 02:54:20,320
Speaker 1: and like what triggered them to act against us, and

3106
02:54:20,440 --> 02:54:24,279
Speaker 1: like that's allowed us to move in far more confident

3107
02:54:24,360 --> 02:54:30,880
Speaker 1: ways that are also far more subversive. It's really interesting

3108
02:54:31,040 --> 02:54:35,440
Speaker 1: that you know, just like when they make it, you know,

3109
02:54:35,720 --> 02:54:41,000
Speaker 1: illegal to do n v d AH, whenever they attack

3110
02:54:41,320 --> 02:54:45,119
Speaker 1: like that and do these really violent raids that put

3111
02:54:45,200 --> 02:54:47,920
Speaker 1: people in like awful positions and like traumatize the ship

3112
02:54:47,920 --> 02:54:51,720
Speaker 1: out of people. They are teaching us how to fight back.

3113
02:54:51,840 --> 02:54:54,840
Speaker 1: They are showing us their weaknesses, and in a really

3114
02:54:55,040 --> 02:54:57,960
Speaker 1: ironic way, the next time they come in and they

3115
02:54:58,080 --> 02:55:00,440
Speaker 1: suck it up because people know it to a spects,

3116
02:55:00,800 --> 02:55:03,119
Speaker 1: it will be a monster of their own making, because

3117
02:55:03,200 --> 02:55:07,960
Speaker 1: like for every one step of aggression that they take,

3118
02:55:08,040 --> 02:55:11,120
Speaker 1: that's two steps further we can take towards them with

3119
02:55:11,280 --> 02:55:14,680
Speaker 1: everything that we learned from the struggle. And obviously this

3120
02:55:14,879 --> 02:55:17,800
Speaker 1: forest is really beautiful and the more time I spend here,

3121
02:55:17,879 --> 02:55:20,000
Speaker 1: the more I feel connected to it and driven to

3122
02:55:20,120 --> 02:55:23,400
Speaker 1: like protect it. But also a big part of it

3123
02:55:23,600 --> 02:55:26,959
Speaker 1: for a lot of us is for me is like, um,

3124
02:55:28,560 --> 02:55:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, they are doing this for their own morale,

3125
02:55:32,080 --> 02:55:35,920
Speaker 1: and so my goal is to make sure they are unhappy.

3126
02:55:36,560 --> 02:55:41,240
Speaker 1: And so yeah, even if I uh yeah, even if

3127
02:55:41,280 --> 02:55:44,320
Speaker 1: they win, as long as we come back and you

3128
02:55:44,520 --> 02:55:47,120
Speaker 1: learn from that and we keep pushing back, you know,

3129
02:55:47,280 --> 02:55:51,320
Speaker 1: it is a way of attrition, and um, it is

3130
02:55:51,360 --> 02:55:55,280
Speaker 1: about their morale. And like, it doesn't matter if they

3131
02:55:55,320 --> 02:55:58,640
Speaker 1: build the police facility. What matters is that every single

3132
02:55:58,840 --> 02:56:03,480
Speaker 1: time that the police and moved to recuperate that their losses,

3133
02:56:03,600 --> 02:56:06,279
Speaker 1: which they just took a big one, they are faced

3134
02:56:06,320 --> 02:56:10,440
Speaker 1: with just unyielding hostility. Um And I think that, like

3135
02:56:10,800 --> 02:56:13,359
Speaker 1: that's something that's really important, is that we don't expect

3136
02:56:13,560 --> 02:56:16,600
Speaker 1: to not take a lot of owls. Like in the

3137
02:56:16,680 --> 02:56:19,960
Speaker 1: forest occupation. We understand the nature of this thing where

3138
02:56:19,959 --> 02:56:25,000
Speaker 1: an ecstatic position complice moving around us, but like it's

3139
02:56:25,040 --> 02:56:27,440
Speaker 1: a it's about making them fight for every inch the

3140
02:56:27,480 --> 02:56:30,720
Speaker 1: best we can. The encampment was just one part of

3141
02:56:30,800 --> 02:56:34,680
Speaker 1: a large ongoing fight. Over the course of those six weeks,

3142
02:56:34,840 --> 02:56:37,640
Speaker 1: hundreds of people were able to circulate through this camp,

3143
02:56:38,160 --> 02:56:41,840
Speaker 1: enjoying meals and performances, making arts together, and spending time

3144
02:56:41,920 --> 02:56:45,680
Speaker 1: around campfires, building and sharing a life in the woods.

3145
02:56:46,560 --> 02:56:49,280
Speaker 1: After the camp was attacked and structures were destroyed by

3146
02:56:49,320 --> 02:56:53,320
Speaker 1: the Cab County Police, land offenders and Atlanta residents mobilized

3147
02:56:53,400 --> 02:56:57,000
Speaker 1: quickly to recover camp supplies and belongings and continued on

3148
02:56:57,160 --> 02:57:00,480
Speaker 1: with efforts to defend the forest. A great thing about

3149
02:57:00,560 --> 02:57:03,879
Speaker 1: these types of free autonomous zones is that they can

3150
02:57:04,000 --> 02:57:07,120
Speaker 1: directly demonstrate to people what a free life outside the

3151
02:57:07,200 --> 02:57:10,320
Speaker 1: confines of regular society can look like and what it

3152
02:57:10,400 --> 02:57:12,720
Speaker 1: can feel like it's not just like we want to

3153
02:57:12,760 --> 02:57:14,440
Speaker 1: save the Words and we want to go back to

3154
02:57:14,480 --> 02:57:16,879
Speaker 1: our regular ass lives. A lot of us are realizing

3155
02:57:17,000 --> 02:57:19,920
Speaker 1: that we're living in the apocalypse and we're just gonna

3156
02:57:20,040 --> 02:57:22,520
Speaker 1: we want to keep living like this. It's not just

3157
02:57:22,760 --> 02:57:26,040
Speaker 1: this Words, it's not just this police facility, and we

3158
02:57:26,120 --> 02:57:28,960
Speaker 1: would want them to not have any more space or

3159
02:57:29,040 --> 02:57:31,760
Speaker 1: platform to organize this police, but we might. A lot

3160
02:57:31,800 --> 02:57:33,600
Speaker 1: of us want to be free, mean want other people

3161
02:57:33,640 --> 02:57:36,280
Speaker 1: that like during the idea of like whatever the funk

3162
02:57:36,320 --> 02:57:39,040
Speaker 1: it is, hitchhiking, train happening, living in the woods, the

3163
02:57:39,160 --> 02:57:43,680
Speaker 1: fact that it's a fucking crime or considered crazy to

3164
02:57:43,840 --> 02:57:46,160
Speaker 1: be the people living in the Words is insane. And

3165
02:57:46,280 --> 02:57:48,440
Speaker 1: that's kind of the vivally out from the moscogy for

3166
02:57:48,480 --> 02:57:52,000
Speaker 1: access today. They're like our whole world, like we're here

3167
02:57:52,040 --> 02:57:53,880
Speaker 1: trying to reclaim our culture because there's a lot of

3168
02:57:53,920 --> 02:57:57,879
Speaker 1: hope for saving the land from like an indigenous perspective,

3169
02:57:58,080 --> 02:58:02,640
Speaker 1: if people would effects them. And the whole point is

3170
02:58:02,760 --> 02:58:05,920
Speaker 1: the US government doesn't actually want them and doesn't actually

3171
02:58:05,959 --> 02:58:09,760
Speaker 1: respect them, and reservations are literally have prisoner of war

3172
02:58:09,879 --> 02:58:12,480
Speaker 1: numbers because they're hoping by blood quantum if they kill

3173
02:58:12,520 --> 02:58:14,640
Speaker 1: these people off, they can take their land back. So

3174
02:58:14,760 --> 02:58:17,560
Speaker 1: the whole land back idea of fucking freaks and not anyway.

3175
02:58:18,240 --> 02:58:19,880
Speaker 1: We want to save this forest, but it's not just

3176
02:58:19,959 --> 02:58:22,520
Speaker 1: about this forest. Were kind of endangered species. We've talked

3177
02:58:22,520 --> 02:58:25,480
Speaker 1: about ourselves feeling like deer Like how deer like they'll

3178
02:58:25,480 --> 02:58:27,120
Speaker 1: be chilling. They'll be like all around being a deer

3179
02:58:27,160 --> 02:58:30,000
Speaker 1: and mating food and they're like, I was on guard,

3180
02:58:30,080 --> 02:58:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, to do something else if there's an enemy around.

3181
02:58:33,640 --> 02:58:35,039
Speaker 1: It kind of feels that way. I like, it will

3182
02:58:35,040 --> 02:58:37,800
Speaker 1: be chilling. Nothing's going on. Also there's cops. But the

3183
02:58:37,879 --> 02:58:40,480
Speaker 1: whole point is if it can happen here, ha ha

3184
02:58:40,720 --> 02:58:42,840
Speaker 1: did it, it can happen somewhere else. And we help

3185
02:58:42,920 --> 02:58:45,560
Speaker 1: to spread the vibe that people not like occupied. What

3186
02:58:45,640 --> 02:58:47,720
Speaker 1: a horrible name for a movement, but it's cool that

3187
02:58:47,800 --> 02:58:49,560
Speaker 1: that happened at the time that we had made sense.

3188
02:58:49,600 --> 02:58:51,440
Speaker 1: We all have nobody knew any better. We know better now,

3189
02:58:51,560 --> 02:58:56,000
Speaker 1: that's good, But get the vibe. We're getting this vib

3190
02:58:56,600 --> 02:58:58,680
Speaker 1: to like continue this kind of stuff. And obviously there's

3191
02:58:58,720 --> 02:59:01,000
Speaker 1: people in all kinds of places, square buildings and do

3192
02:59:01,959 --> 02:59:04,080
Speaker 1: all sorts of ship. But the more territory that we

3193
02:59:04,240 --> 02:59:08,120
Speaker 1: occupy and control and can help remay trade back to

3194
02:59:08,200 --> 02:59:13,359
Speaker 1: indigenous grassroots comrades, not IRA and reorganization, active government sanctioned

3195
02:59:14,200 --> 02:59:18,600
Speaker 1: indigenous groups right if they can't not everyone's our ally.

3196
02:59:18,720 --> 02:59:20,840
Speaker 1: These have to be ally ships. That makes sense. The

3197
02:59:20,920 --> 02:59:25,320
Speaker 1: Muscogee commrades that we're close to, obviously not all of them.

3198
02:59:25,440 --> 02:59:28,840
Speaker 1: That some romanticized, generalized bullshit. They said the same ship

3199
02:59:29,000 --> 02:59:30,520
Speaker 1: that when we talk to them, they're like even our

3200
02:59:30,560 --> 02:59:33,200
Speaker 1: own people betrays sometimes because we're not all the same.

3201
02:59:33,280 --> 02:59:36,280
Speaker 1: It's some homogeneous bullshit, and I've seen that play out

3202
02:59:36,320 --> 02:59:38,600
Speaker 1: poorly in other places. And like would give the land

3203
02:59:38,640 --> 02:59:43,200
Speaker 1: back to the natives and like which natives like people

3204
02:59:43,360 --> 02:59:46,440
Speaker 1: were all on the spectrum of conversation and deconization, and

3205
02:59:46,520 --> 02:59:48,560
Speaker 1: sad least one of us are further along the lines

3206
02:59:48,600 --> 02:59:53,160
Speaker 1: and others. And it's very much on the colonizer's fault

3207
02:59:53,240 --> 02:59:56,360
Speaker 1: for doing that. But where we're at is the people,

3208
02:59:58,840 --> 03:00:01,000
Speaker 1: the people that feel the called the anarchy, the people

3209
03:00:01,040 --> 03:00:04,879
Speaker 1: that feel to call to some kind of radical left orientation.

3210
03:00:05,000 --> 03:00:06,600
Speaker 1: They can find it in their hearts and in their

3211
03:00:06,600 --> 03:00:08,480
Speaker 1: patients to tolerate each other. And we need to band

3212
03:00:08,520 --> 03:00:12,080
Speaker 1: together to come up with better plans because we're all

3213
03:00:12,120 --> 03:00:15,200
Speaker 1: we got and it doesn't get better, it's getting worse.

3214
03:00:15,560 --> 03:00:17,840
Speaker 1: So hopefully this can be an inspiration for people to

3215
03:00:17,920 --> 03:00:20,560
Speaker 1: do other ship. I'm inspired. I'm not from anyway freaking

3216
03:00:20,600 --> 03:00:21,959
Speaker 1: near here, but I've been here for a year now

3217
03:00:22,000 --> 03:00:24,880
Speaker 1: and i don't want to leave because I'm tired of

3218
03:00:25,000 --> 03:00:27,680
Speaker 1: the same old tactics. And I have been a part

3219
03:00:27,760 --> 03:00:30,560
Speaker 1: of stuff that has been successful before and I had

3220
03:00:30,600 --> 03:00:33,000
Speaker 1: nothing to do with non valid direct action, and I

3221
03:00:33,080 --> 03:00:35,040
Speaker 1: have to do time for it, and I know people

3222
03:00:35,800 --> 03:00:38,960
Speaker 1: would have done time for it also. And if there's

3223
03:00:38,959 --> 03:00:41,160
Speaker 1: any message I can give to the young generation is

3224
03:00:41,240 --> 03:00:44,840
Speaker 1: there's no future and it's worth it. And like if

3225
03:00:44,920 --> 03:00:46,840
Speaker 1: your future is just like working at nine to five

3226
03:00:46,959 --> 03:00:50,640
Speaker 1: and like watching the earth, so they're like shriveling to nothingness,

3227
03:00:50,840 --> 03:00:53,720
Speaker 1: I would argue, it's not really a life. Might as

3228
03:00:53,760 --> 03:00:57,080
Speaker 1: all well might as well be dead. So I'll hope

3229
03:00:57,120 --> 03:00:59,480
Speaker 1: you live. I hope you choose to live. I think

3230
03:00:59,560 --> 03:01:04,360
Speaker 1: it's a to the like interesting thing the psychological aspects

3231
03:01:04,440 --> 03:01:09,400
Speaker 1: of this, because the first time you do the way

3232
03:01:09,440 --> 03:01:13,680
Speaker 1: we're scurcialized in the society is to be obedient and fearful,

3233
03:01:14,360 --> 03:01:18,039
Speaker 1: and the first time you do something illegals. The first

3234
03:01:18,120 --> 03:01:22,720
Speaker 1: time you do something that you know is against the rope,

3235
03:01:22,720 --> 03:01:25,240
Speaker 1: the first time you steal some food, the first time

3236
03:01:25,959 --> 03:01:27,920
Speaker 1: you smash the window, the first time you do any

3237
03:01:27,959 --> 03:01:31,880
Speaker 1: of that, you're scared. But then you get away with it.

3238
03:01:32,320 --> 03:01:35,040
Speaker 1: You realize that this is a thing you can do,

3239
03:01:35,560 --> 03:01:37,960
Speaker 1: and I think that the state can't stop you from

3240
03:01:38,040 --> 03:01:43,080
Speaker 1: doing and you realize, oh, I can do so much more.

3241
03:01:43,760 --> 03:01:46,560
Speaker 1: And once you get over that initial fear, once you

3242
03:01:46,760 --> 03:01:50,640
Speaker 1: smashed that window, and you've gotten home and you're like, oh,

3243
03:01:50,720 --> 03:01:53,080
Speaker 1: I didn't go to jail for this. But when when

3244
03:01:53,120 --> 03:01:55,440
Speaker 1: you like get home and you're like, I have all

3245
03:01:55,560 --> 03:01:58,240
Speaker 1: this food now that I didn't have to pay for it,

3246
03:01:58,360 --> 03:02:01,480
Speaker 1: you start to realize maybe I don't need to work

3247
03:02:01,520 --> 03:02:05,160
Speaker 1: a job. Maybe I don't need to work nine to

3248
03:02:05,240 --> 03:02:11,480
Speaker 1: five or you know, five to midnight every day to

3249
03:02:12,440 --> 03:02:16,040
Speaker 1: get a job and payper You realize, wait, maybe I

3250
03:02:16,120 --> 03:02:19,360
Speaker 1: can just steal the food. Yeah. I've been wanting to

3251
03:02:19,440 --> 03:02:22,760
Speaker 1: talk about that for a while. For I want to

3252
03:02:22,800 --> 03:02:27,000
Speaker 1: make another Hyper Objects episode UM and talk about the

3253
03:02:27,120 --> 03:02:31,080
Speaker 1: anarchist properties of client bottles. UM and I described this

3254
03:02:31,200 --> 03:02:33,400
Speaker 1: type of freedom is like it's like how a client

3255
03:02:33,440 --> 03:02:35,560
Speaker 1: bottle works, or like a fourth dimensional object. It's like

3256
03:02:35,600 --> 03:02:37,840
Speaker 1: you need to in order for there's like this extra

3257
03:02:37,959 --> 03:02:40,840
Speaker 1: degree or extra dimension of movement that we usually don't

3258
03:02:40,879 --> 03:02:43,320
Speaker 1: think it's possible, but it is actually there if you

3259
03:02:43,480 --> 03:02:46,880
Speaker 1: know how to interact with it. UM. And Yeah, it's

3260
03:02:46,920 --> 03:02:50,199
Speaker 1: like we're domesticated in so many ways to view here's

3261
03:02:50,200 --> 03:02:52,400
Speaker 1: what's possible, here's what's impossible. I have to exist within

3262
03:02:52,480 --> 03:02:54,960
Speaker 1: this framework, UM and only doing these things which are

3263
03:02:54,959 --> 03:02:58,600
Speaker 1: seen as correct. And there's actually more degrees of freedom

3264
03:02:58,640 --> 03:03:03,160
Speaker 1: than that. We just don't often like acknowledge them. But

3265
03:03:03,320 --> 03:03:05,640
Speaker 1: you can totally phase through things and you can totally

3266
03:03:05,720 --> 03:03:07,920
Speaker 1: find that extra degree of freedom, and once you do,

3267
03:03:08,120 --> 03:03:11,800
Speaker 1: that's a super interesting feeling. UM. As opposed to like

3268
03:03:12,160 --> 03:03:15,600
Speaker 1: waiting for gay luxury space communism, you can instead do

3269
03:03:15,680 --> 03:03:18,880
Speaker 1: like fourth dimensional like hyper anarchism, which gives you so

3270
03:03:19,000 --> 03:03:21,880
Speaker 1: much more freedom right now instead of just waiting for

3271
03:03:22,040 --> 03:03:27,120
Speaker 1: the communism that will never come and the relationship you build.

3272
03:03:27,959 --> 03:03:31,480
Speaker 1: The relationships you build that are based on a trust

3273
03:03:31,760 --> 03:03:35,040
Speaker 1: that is, I trust you to have my back, I

3274
03:03:35,160 --> 03:03:38,240
Speaker 1: trust you to work with me and do this thing

3275
03:03:39,120 --> 03:03:42,760
Speaker 1: is so much deeper than the trust of I guess

3276
03:03:42,800 --> 03:03:46,120
Speaker 1: I trust my coworker. But like I really trust them

3277
03:03:46,160 --> 03:03:49,959
Speaker 1: not to snitch my boss. Like the trust that comes

3278
03:03:50,000 --> 03:03:53,560
Speaker 1: from a relationship where you're like, yeah, let's like we

3279
03:03:53,640 --> 03:03:56,080
Speaker 1: need food, that's going to steal it together. That kind

3280
03:03:56,120 --> 03:04:01,120
Speaker 1: of trust is not something that can be incuperated. And

3281
03:04:01,240 --> 03:04:05,840
Speaker 1: that kind of like relationship where it's like our relationship

3282
03:04:06,000 --> 03:04:08,600
Speaker 1: is built on the fundamental we will do that we

3283
03:04:08,760 --> 03:04:12,960
Speaker 1: have to to survive. It creates an intimacy that you

3284
03:04:13,120 --> 03:04:23,000
Speaker 1: can't find anywhere else, and a criminal intimacy. You might say, um, yeah,

3285
03:04:23,600 --> 03:04:29,360
Speaker 1: and that that was the point as somebody else think, yeah, yeah,

3286
03:04:29,520 --> 03:04:31,920
Speaker 1: just to double down not too like I think it's

3287
03:04:32,360 --> 03:04:38,880
Speaker 1: um it's cool too because uh, when you also come

3288
03:04:38,959 --> 03:04:40,520
Speaker 1: to a space like this, like you can live like

3289
03:04:40,600 --> 03:04:42,560
Speaker 1: that on your on your own or with your friends,

3290
03:04:43,600 --> 03:04:47,000
Speaker 1: but then there's something wild when you come to this space. Um,

3291
03:04:48,040 --> 03:04:51,080
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, it's like when you

3292
03:04:51,520 --> 03:04:54,120
Speaker 1: start attacking something that a lot of other people want

3293
03:04:54,160 --> 03:04:57,040
Speaker 1: to see attacked. All of a sudden, all you have

3294
03:04:57,120 --> 03:04:59,760
Speaker 1: to do is attack that thing and foods there. Yeah,

3295
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:03,200
Speaker 1: and like you know like that and and like yeah,

3296
03:05:03,280 --> 03:05:05,560
Speaker 1: and like you have all these resources and you can

3297
03:05:05,680 --> 03:05:08,800
Speaker 1: focus on that and so like it's like yes, I'm

3298
03:05:08,840 --> 03:05:11,600
Speaker 1: like it's like a joke to some degree, but like

3299
03:05:12,640 --> 03:05:14,720
Speaker 1: if you want to be a lifestyle ran because like

3300
03:05:14,760 --> 03:05:17,720
Speaker 1: if you want to actually be an anarchist right now

3301
03:05:18,240 --> 03:05:22,040
Speaker 1: and do anarchist ship, you can come to Atlanta and

3302
03:05:22,520 --> 03:05:26,480
Speaker 1: do and like it's not easy. It's fucking scary, it's sketchy,

3303
03:05:26,840 --> 03:05:32,360
Speaker 1: it's hard, there's freaky as bugs, but like, yeah, you

3304
03:05:32,440 --> 03:05:36,480
Speaker 1: don't have to wait, and like, yeah, it I think

3305
03:05:36,520 --> 03:05:38,880
Speaker 1: that that's something that like, for me, is really magic.

3306
03:05:39,080 --> 03:05:42,920
Speaker 1: Is that like actually the more you attack and the

3307
03:05:43,040 --> 03:05:46,680
Speaker 1: more you like position yourself to be antagonistic towards the world,

3308
03:05:47,160 --> 03:05:51,920
Speaker 1: the more of it's like fourth dimensional like winning shoot

3309
03:05:51,959 --> 03:05:54,560
Speaker 1: on you know, like which I don't need really understand,

3310
03:05:55,280 --> 03:05:59,560
Speaker 1: like starts to kind of like self actualize and yeah,

3311
03:05:59,560 --> 03:06:01,520
Speaker 1: I think it's cool it And then like it freaks

3312
03:06:01,560 --> 03:06:03,520
Speaker 1: me out to think that there's not people who are

3313
03:06:03,560 --> 03:06:07,720
Speaker 1: probably probably pretty cool like waiting for some opportunity like waiting,

3314
03:06:07,800 --> 03:06:10,560
Speaker 1: just teachers waiting, and we don't have that much time. Yeah,

3315
03:06:10,600 --> 03:06:12,600
Speaker 1: you can live anarchy now. You don't need to wait

3316
03:06:12,680 --> 03:06:17,120
Speaker 1: for the collapse TM because turns out that party it's

3317
03:06:17,120 --> 03:06:19,800
Speaker 1: already happening, and that already happened. We're just waiting in

3318
03:06:19,840 --> 03:06:22,760
Speaker 1: the liminal space until the climate change catches up with

3319
03:06:23,000 --> 03:06:25,280
Speaker 1: the admissions are already there. We're already living in it.

3320
03:06:25,400 --> 03:06:27,120
Speaker 1: We just don't realize it yet, or some of us

3321
03:06:27,120 --> 03:06:30,000
Speaker 1: are in denial of it yet. But the collapses like now,

3322
03:06:30,240 --> 03:06:32,720
Speaker 1: we it's already the thing. We don't need to wait

3323
03:06:32,760 --> 03:06:35,000
Speaker 1: for the one big collapse, because that's a myth. But

3324
03:06:35,240 --> 03:06:38,039
Speaker 1: you can live anarchy and do stuff. You don't need

3325
03:06:38,120 --> 03:06:41,800
Speaker 1: to wait for the next communist president who's going to

3326
03:06:41,879 --> 03:06:48,040
Speaker 1: run and fail. There's no coming social there's no coming collapse.

3327
03:06:48,160 --> 03:06:50,960
Speaker 1: There's nothing to wait for to keep on waiting his

3328
03:06:51,080 --> 03:06:57,200
Speaker 1: madness aside. I think a really interesting aspect of this movement.

3329
03:06:58,760 --> 03:07:01,960
Speaker 1: We are attacking up popular target, and how like in

3330
03:07:02,080 --> 03:07:06,040
Speaker 1: attacking a popular target, we've built this like thing is

3331
03:07:06,200 --> 03:07:13,480
Speaker 1: we are. We're not just here and attacking this thing

3332
03:07:13,680 --> 03:07:18,959
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist in isolation. We're here and we've built

3333
03:07:19,120 --> 03:07:25,680
Speaker 1: a movement and we've built uh, we've through attack, we've

3334
03:07:25,840 --> 03:07:34,160
Speaker 1: built a built this like popular idea that like actually,

3335
03:07:35,200 --> 03:07:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, like if you want something to not be there,

3336
03:07:39,000 --> 03:07:42,840
Speaker 1: instead of like talking to a politician, you can send

3337
03:07:42,879 --> 03:07:45,920
Speaker 1: it on vote harder, vote harder, just just just just

3338
03:07:46,040 --> 03:07:59,480
Speaker 1: one more vote. I swear I'm sorry. Now I like

3339
03:07:59,600 --> 03:08:03,039
Speaker 1: to talk more about tactics. Since the City Council voute,

3340
03:08:03,120 --> 03:08:05,760
Speaker 1: on the ground tactics have gained a much more integral

3341
03:08:05,920 --> 03:08:09,520
Speaker 1: role and grown past the basic sabotage and house visits,

3342
03:08:10,120 --> 03:08:13,520
Speaker 1: although both of those still are crucial aspects in keeping

3343
03:08:13,560 --> 03:08:17,840
Speaker 1: the movement going. Different ways of preventing physical construction, surveying

3344
03:08:17,920 --> 03:08:20,360
Speaker 1: of land and destruction of the forest made up most

3345
03:08:20,440 --> 03:08:23,560
Speaker 1: of the on the ground direct action efforts inside the forest.

3346
03:08:24,360 --> 03:08:28,280
Speaker 1: I think a really interesting aspect of the struggle has

3347
03:08:28,320 --> 03:08:34,240
Speaker 1: happened here is that because it's so decentralized, there are

3348
03:08:34,400 --> 03:08:39,039
Speaker 1: people and no one really knows who. There are people

3349
03:08:39,680 --> 03:08:44,600
Speaker 1: who will just to show up and like, you know,

3350
03:08:44,840 --> 03:08:47,760
Speaker 1: it's like there were people who are like getting the

3351
03:08:47,840 --> 03:08:50,760
Speaker 1: crops called on them in the woods and ships, and

3352
03:08:50,879 --> 03:08:54,360
Speaker 1: then like a bunch of anonymous people have showed up

3353
03:08:54,440 --> 03:08:58,039
Speaker 1: and like propable the camera powers and people stopped getting

3354
03:08:58,080 --> 03:09:00,160
Speaker 1: the crops called on them in the woods for a

3355
03:09:00,280 --> 03:09:06,359
Speaker 1: long time, and like that kind of decentralized thing, especially

3356
03:09:06,640 --> 03:09:11,840
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, regardless of even like if

3357
03:09:11,920 --> 03:09:15,600
Speaker 1: the people in the woods were like you know, like

3358
03:09:17,840 --> 03:09:22,600
Speaker 1: into doing ship, it's like it's really useful when people

3359
03:09:22,720 --> 03:09:26,760
Speaker 1: who have more skills and people have more knowledge and

3360
03:09:26,840 --> 03:09:30,160
Speaker 1: more ability to do things and more ability to take risks.

3361
03:09:30,520 --> 03:09:33,760
Speaker 1: It's really awesome when those kinds of people can come

3362
03:09:33,840 --> 03:09:36,920
Speaker 1: and make things safe for a larger mass of people.

3363
03:09:37,360 --> 03:09:40,240
Speaker 1: And I feel like that is like a strategy and

3364
03:09:40,400 --> 03:09:43,960
Speaker 1: like the interactionary space that can be truly like expanded on,

3365
03:09:44,280 --> 03:09:48,160
Speaker 1: where people who know their ship can make things safe

3366
03:09:48,560 --> 03:09:53,040
Speaker 1: for large groups of people. To generalize revolt, Yeah, I

3367
03:09:53,520 --> 03:09:55,640
Speaker 1: regret like a lot of that hard of struggle and

3368
03:09:55,680 --> 03:10:01,160
Speaker 1: struggle has been framed from the very beginning as like

3369
03:10:01,600 --> 03:10:04,520
Speaker 1: there was no call to action do x y Z.

3370
03:10:05,120 --> 03:10:08,000
Speaker 1: There was a bunch of people pursuing their own individual

3371
03:10:08,080 --> 03:10:10,600
Speaker 1: desires and what they saw as a forward facing like

3372
03:10:10,720 --> 03:10:14,800
Speaker 1: a reprojection of their own ideas into the future and

3373
03:10:15,040 --> 03:10:18,240
Speaker 1: made that happen. And it was underneath this framework where

3374
03:10:18,320 --> 03:10:21,960
Speaker 1: there was no limit, there were no boundaries um, and

3375
03:10:22,080 --> 03:10:25,440
Speaker 1: there was no idea of like us all having to

3376
03:10:25,520 --> 03:10:28,840
Speaker 1: be on the same page about that. Yeah, you don't

3377
03:10:28,840 --> 03:10:32,760
Speaker 1: need to like attend a march to be to like

3378
03:10:32,959 --> 03:10:36,000
Speaker 1: do effective things. In fact, it turns out doing things

3379
03:10:36,160 --> 03:10:38,120
Speaker 1: that are not attending a march can often be way

3380
03:10:38,200 --> 03:10:41,840
Speaker 1: more materially effective and to double down on that, Like, um,

3381
03:10:41,959 --> 03:10:44,480
Speaker 1: so many times there's just like a script that the

3382
03:10:44,560 --> 03:10:46,760
Speaker 1: people follow, this is how we do it. And then

3383
03:10:46,840 --> 03:10:51,120
Speaker 1: there's there's like this action that's applied to everything that

3384
03:10:51,240 --> 03:10:55,600
Speaker 1: people don't like, and holy ship, that's a crazy book.

3385
03:10:56,240 --> 03:11:03,560
Speaker 1: It was a wildfire. Um um think about that. But yeah,

3386
03:11:03,600 --> 03:11:05,800
Speaker 1: but there's these like things that applied to everything, and

3387
03:11:05,920 --> 03:11:10,160
Speaker 1: this struggle very much has no script, which is really exciting.

3388
03:11:10,440 --> 03:11:13,520
Speaker 1: And but but what's even cooler about that is that

3389
03:11:14,280 --> 03:11:17,360
Speaker 1: it's not it's also not reinventing the wheel. And so

3390
03:11:17,720 --> 03:11:20,480
Speaker 1: there's people who are taking from you know, like kind

3391
03:11:20,520 --> 03:11:26,240
Speaker 1: of like classic insurrectionary anarchists like approaches. There's people looking

3392
03:11:26,440 --> 03:11:30,880
Speaker 1: at ego defense stuff from all over the world thinking

3393
03:11:30,920 --> 03:11:35,600
Speaker 1: about um, there's people looking at some successful like non

3394
03:11:35,720 --> 03:11:40,040
Speaker 1: violent direct action. There's people looking at alf struggles and

3395
03:11:40,240 --> 03:11:44,440
Speaker 1: like how like those campaigns, target campaigns, secondary targeting, how

3396
03:11:44,560 --> 03:11:48,960
Speaker 1: things like that worth The contracting and subcontracting companies hired

3397
03:11:48,959 --> 03:11:51,720
Speaker 1: by the Atlanta Police Foundation made up the new targets

3398
03:11:51,840 --> 03:11:55,680
Speaker 1: of the pressure campaigns and direct confrontation methods that threatened

3399
03:11:55,720 --> 03:11:59,480
Speaker 1: physical and social capital bringing back the house mis It's

3400
03:11:59,520 --> 03:12:03,640
Speaker 1: mentioned the previous episode. In late December, banners that read

3401
03:12:03,959 --> 03:12:07,200
Speaker 1: Reeves Young out of the Atlanta Forest were hung in

3402
03:12:07,360 --> 03:12:11,879
Speaker 1: the backyard of the private residence of Dean Reeves in Suani, Georgia.

3403
03:12:12,640 --> 03:12:15,400
Speaker 1: Dean Raeves serves as the chairman of Reeves Young Construction

3404
03:12:15,720 --> 03:12:18,360
Speaker 1: and was among the board members present at the November action,

3405
03:12:18,560 --> 03:12:25,440
Speaker 1: and he personally allegedly shoved and assaulted protesters inside the brawl.

3406
03:12:26,520 --> 03:12:30,960
Speaker 1: After the backyard banners were hung, an anonymous online statement

3407
03:12:31,040 --> 03:12:34,359
Speaker 1: read quote, we hope this action gives but a miniscule

3408
03:12:34,480 --> 03:12:36,720
Speaker 1: dose of what the creatures in the South Atlanta forest

3409
03:12:36,800 --> 03:12:40,080
Speaker 1: you want to bulldoz might feel unsafe in the place

3410
03:12:40,200 --> 03:12:45,240
Speaker 1: they call home. A month later, on January, Reeves Young

3411
03:12:45,280 --> 03:12:49,800
Speaker 1: Construction and representatives of the Atlanta Police Foundation entered the

3412
03:12:49,920 --> 03:12:53,840
Speaker 1: forest with a bulldozer. They started knocking down trees to

3413
03:12:53,959 --> 03:12:57,680
Speaker 1: complete more surveying work and determine the construction supplies needed

3414
03:12:57,760 --> 03:13:01,680
Speaker 1: for a laying of building Foundation force. Destruction was halted

3415
03:13:01,720 --> 03:13:05,360
Speaker 1: when approximately a dozen protesters approached the workers in Atlanta

3416
03:13:05,360 --> 03:13:09,520
Speaker 1: Police Foundation representative Alan Williams and demanded that they leave.

3417
03:13:10,440 --> 03:13:13,280
Speaker 1: Workers were safely escorted out of the woods and the

3418
03:13:13,360 --> 03:13:16,400
Speaker 1: bulldozer was left at the scene and was subsequently taken

3419
03:13:16,440 --> 03:13:20,480
Speaker 1: out of commission. In my interviews with some force defenders,

3420
03:13:20,560 --> 03:13:22,960
Speaker 1: I believe one of them referred to this as the

3421
03:13:23,560 --> 03:13:28,000
Speaker 1: bulldozer tripping and falling, So that's fun. The day after

3422
03:13:28,200 --> 03:13:31,760
Speaker 1: autonomous groups of people finished construction of multiple well built

3423
03:13:31,800 --> 03:13:34,320
Speaker 1: treehouses up in the canopy near the site of the

3424
03:13:34,440 --> 03:13:39,320
Speaker 1: previous day's confrontation, people climbed up into treehouses and announced

3425
03:13:39,360 --> 03:13:43,360
Speaker 1: their intention to remain there in order to delay further construction,

3426
03:13:43,720 --> 03:13:47,560
Speaker 1: ripping off the old tree sit and bipod tactics. From

3427
03:13:47,640 --> 03:13:50,920
Speaker 1: October one to this point in the struggle, which just

3428
03:13:51,040 --> 03:13:55,400
Speaker 1: like mid January, work was consistently able to be stopped

3429
03:13:55,440 --> 03:13:59,200
Speaker 1: by small, dedicated groups of people without resorting to force.

3430
03:14:00,040 --> 03:14:02,760
Speaker 1: Throughout the next week, attempts at land surveying in the

3431
03:14:02,879 --> 03:14:06,600
Speaker 1: area of the old Atlanta Prison Farm continued, but now

3432
03:14:06,720 --> 03:14:09,760
Speaker 1: with workers being accompanied by the Atlanta Police Foundation, Atlanta

3433
03:14:09,800 --> 03:14:13,720
Speaker 1: Police officers, and a cab County police. With the backing

3434
03:14:13,760 --> 03:14:16,760
Speaker 1: of cops, workers were able to accomplish more of their tasks,

3435
03:14:16,879 --> 03:14:21,080
Speaker 1: including tree felling and soil boring per Crime Thing quote.

3436
03:14:21,480 --> 03:14:24,640
Speaker 1: In some instances, only handful of activists were on the

3437
03:14:24,720 --> 03:14:30,360
Speaker 1: scene behind makeshift barricades. Reinforcements cannot arrive rapidly enough to

3438
03:14:30,440 --> 03:14:35,640
Speaker 1: assist those on the ground. Unquote. Reportedly, undercover cops surrounded

3439
03:14:35,760 --> 03:14:40,120
Speaker 1: the forest, intimidating those who would park nearby. As such,

3440
03:14:40,440 --> 03:14:45,400
Speaker 1: some outside support did show up, but not in mass. Meanwhile,

3441
03:14:45,520 --> 03:14:47,840
Speaker 1: in the forest, it was a game of cat mouse

3442
03:14:47,959 --> 03:14:52,000
Speaker 1: between the workers, forest offenders, and cops. Police went so

3443
03:14:52,120 --> 03:14:56,000
Speaker 1: far as to start chasing people on forest trails while

3444
03:14:56,080 --> 03:14:59,480
Speaker 1: writing on a t v s. Barricades and the tactical

3445
03:14:59,560 --> 03:15:03,160
Speaker 1: removal of land survey markers did slow down work on

3446
03:15:03,400 --> 03:15:07,200
Speaker 1: some days, but ultimately efforts were unsuccessful in halting the

3447
03:15:07,280 --> 03:15:11,960
Speaker 1: destruction process entirely. This week of land destruction and caton

3448
03:15:12,040 --> 03:15:17,080
Speaker 1: mouse culminated on January. Around sixty people, the largest crowd

3449
03:15:17,200 --> 03:15:19,840
Speaker 1: in months, gathered to march into the south of a

3450
03:15:19,959 --> 03:15:22,080
Speaker 1: forest and on to the old Atlanta Prison farm to

3451
03:15:22,160 --> 03:15:25,520
Speaker 1: directly confront construction workers who were boring holes in the

3452
03:15:25,600 --> 03:15:30,199
Speaker 1: ground doing soil sample collection. The cab County police attacked

3453
03:15:30,240 --> 03:15:34,360
Speaker 1: the protesters, tackling multiple people and arresting four, the first

3454
03:15:34,520 --> 03:15:38,039
Speaker 1: arrests inside the forest within the context of the movement.

3455
03:15:38,680 --> 03:15:42,359
Speaker 1: Quoting crime thing again quote, police attacked the march, tackling

3456
03:15:42,480 --> 03:15:46,240
Speaker 1: several people. The other demonstrators did not mount a proportional

3457
03:15:46,320 --> 03:15:50,840
Speaker 1: response to this aggression, despite outnumbering the police. Perhaps some

3458
03:15:50,920 --> 03:15:53,800
Speaker 1: of the tactics popular during the rebellion, such as the

3459
03:15:53,879 --> 03:15:56,880
Speaker 1: mass use of umbrellas or makeshift shields, could have equipped

3460
03:15:56,920 --> 03:16:00,840
Speaker 1: the participants to feel more capable of decisive action. Ellen

3461
03:16:00,879 --> 03:16:04,400
Speaker 1: Williams of the Atlanta Police Foundation was filling protesters, looking

3462
03:16:04,440 --> 03:16:08,000
Speaker 1: a little anxious as he did so. A statement on

3463
03:16:08,120 --> 03:16:11,240
Speaker 1: the Defend the Forest scenes dot no blogs dot org

3464
03:16:11,360 --> 03:16:16,039
Speaker 1: site concluded their report back with this sentiment quote, at

3465
03:16:16,080 --> 03:16:18,720
Speaker 1: this point, we are in need of two main things.

3466
03:16:19,320 --> 03:16:21,440
Speaker 1: More people to help support tree sets and defend the

3467
03:16:21,520 --> 03:16:26,680
Speaker 1: force from destruction, and legal attempts to delay construction. Yeah. Always,

3468
03:16:26,920 --> 03:16:28,640
Speaker 1: you want more people to be on the ground in

3469
03:16:28,720 --> 03:16:34,240
Speaker 1: the woods, in the city. Cass We ned casts like

3470
03:16:34,360 --> 03:16:39,680
Speaker 1: the cast like that. You want to wear out the

3471
03:16:39,840 --> 03:16:41,560
Speaker 1: enemy and a lot of different ways. And the enemy

3472
03:16:41,680 --> 03:16:43,880
Speaker 1: is a lot of different people of the enemies, and

3473
03:16:44,040 --> 03:16:47,360
Speaker 1: enemies are subcontractors and enemy as a police enemy. Garge

3474
03:16:47,440 --> 03:16:53,120
Speaker 1: Parker Power owns quote unquote the power that divides both

3475
03:16:53,240 --> 03:16:56,560
Speaker 1: entrenchman Creek and sorry, there's a lot of different people.

3476
03:16:56,640 --> 03:16:58,400
Speaker 1: So if there's a lot of and we also have

3477
03:16:58,440 --> 03:17:00,440
Speaker 1: a lot of different people involved, a lot of different

3478
03:17:00,440 --> 03:17:03,160
Speaker 1: ways living in the words, people living in town, so

3479
03:17:04,640 --> 03:17:07,400
Speaker 1: people already knowing it's already happening. We should be visiting

3480
03:17:07,480 --> 03:17:12,119
Speaker 1: the offices, We should be visiting at the damn church,

3481
03:17:12,840 --> 03:17:14,640
Speaker 1: we should be visiting there in the forest, there should

3482
03:17:14,640 --> 03:17:18,360
Speaker 1: be there should be no peace. And I believe that's

3483
03:17:18,360 --> 03:17:20,320
Speaker 1: how we can win, because we need to make it

3484
03:17:20,480 --> 03:17:25,440
Speaker 1: unpopular and unsavory and hopefully next year impossible for them

3485
03:17:25,560 --> 03:17:27,600
Speaker 1: to make these choices. Even this as a small part

3486
03:17:27,640 --> 03:17:29,800
Speaker 1: of the forest, they're just going to continue on to

3487
03:17:29,840 --> 03:17:32,280
Speaker 1: the next thing. I want to briefly go into some

3488
03:17:32,480 --> 03:17:35,920
Speaker 1: details about a method of protests that combines pressure to

3489
03:17:36,040 --> 03:17:39,240
Speaker 1: both physical and social capital in hopes of resulting material

3490
03:17:39,400 --> 03:17:43,920
Speaker 1: changes from businesses, corporations, or people in power. It features

3491
03:17:44,000 --> 03:17:47,040
Speaker 1: many of the actual tactics we've in fact already discussed.

3492
03:17:47,480 --> 03:17:50,279
Speaker 1: Will refer to it as the Shack method for reasons

3493
03:17:50,360 --> 03:17:55,760
Speaker 1: that will be shortly explained. House visits, targeted vandalism, phone calls,

3494
03:17:56,040 --> 03:17:59,400
Speaker 1: and hanging banners and backyards all have a place in

3495
03:17:59,480 --> 03:18:02,920
Speaker 1: this method oology. It's a focused drive to dissolve that

3496
03:18:03,240 --> 03:18:07,039
Speaker 1: safe political or corporate astral space that I talked about

3497
03:18:07,160 --> 03:18:11,280
Speaker 1: in the last episode. The cred of the article contains

3498
03:18:11,400 --> 03:18:13,959
Speaker 1: a really good summary of the Shack method. So instead

3499
03:18:14,000 --> 03:18:17,000
Speaker 1: of just like regurgitating their explainer, I'm gonna I'm just

3500
03:18:17,040 --> 03:18:20,280
Speaker 1: gonna narrate certain sections of it because that will make

3501
03:18:20,320 --> 03:18:23,080
Speaker 1: my job easier and I'm I'm a hacking of fraud

3502
03:18:23,080 --> 03:18:26,360
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah quote. The goal is to

3503
03:18:26,440 --> 03:18:30,280
Speaker 1: hold those responsible for these projects personally liable for their

3504
03:18:30,360 --> 03:18:33,960
Speaker 1: decisions and the decisions of the companies they own, because

3505
03:18:34,000 --> 03:18:36,160
Speaker 1: the entire system of rules and norms we live under

3506
03:18:36,280 --> 03:18:40,200
Speaker 1: dictates that exploiters, warlords, mass murderers, and those that destroy

3507
03:18:40,240 --> 03:18:43,560
Speaker 1: ecosystems must not face pressure at home as a consequence

3508
03:18:43,600 --> 03:18:46,720
Speaker 1: of the decisions that they make. It work, this strategy

3509
03:18:46,879 --> 03:18:50,199
Speaker 1: is bound to be controversial. It rejects the entire logic

3510
03:18:50,240 --> 03:18:53,480
Speaker 1: of limited liability that forms the basis of corporate rule

3511
03:18:53,560 --> 03:18:57,400
Speaker 1: in our society. At the beginning of the twenty first century,

3512
03:18:57,760 --> 03:19:00,920
Speaker 1: animal rights activists in the UK and the US set

3513
03:19:00,959 --> 03:19:03,960
Speaker 1: out to take down the biggest animal testing corporation on

3514
03:19:04,120 --> 03:19:08,960
Speaker 1: the planet, Huntington's Life Sciences. The campaign to stop Huntington's

3515
03:19:08,959 --> 03:19:13,360
Speaker 1: Life Sciences was called Stop Huntington's Animal Cruelty or SHACK.

3516
03:19:13,840 --> 03:19:17,640
Speaker 1: It formally disbanded, and it's best known for its period

3517
03:19:17,720 --> 03:19:21,640
Speaker 1: of ambitious international participation in the early two thousands. The

3518
03:19:21,720 --> 03:19:26,440
Speaker 1: methodology of this movement, which encompassed direct actions, symbolic protests,

3519
03:19:26,879 --> 03:19:31,400
Speaker 1: cultural events, sabotage pranks, and more, included many features that

3520
03:19:31,520 --> 03:19:34,480
Speaker 1: have been since used in a wide range of campaigns.

3521
03:19:35,320 --> 03:19:38,880
Speaker 1: The overall strategy of SHACK involved mobilizing a few hundred

3522
03:19:38,959 --> 03:19:42,840
Speaker 1: people to maximize their effectiveness against a major enterprise by

3523
03:19:42,920 --> 03:19:47,440
Speaker 1: focusing only on their ability to function economically. The SHACK

3524
03:19:47,560 --> 03:19:52,560
Speaker 1: model is centered around tertiary targeting I isolating service providers

3525
03:19:52,640 --> 03:19:55,480
Speaker 1: from third party contracts in order to limit their ability

3526
03:19:55,520 --> 03:19:59,320
Speaker 1: to provide services to the client, which is the actual target.

3527
03:19:59,840 --> 03:20:02,400
Speaker 1: A Right now, I'm just gonna pause here because if

3528
03:20:02,480 --> 03:20:06,000
Speaker 1: that sounds confusing, let me let me briefly provide an example.

3529
03:20:06,879 --> 03:20:09,960
Speaker 1: So the actual target here would be the Atlanta Police Foundation,

3530
03:20:10,080 --> 03:20:12,800
Speaker 1: since they're the ones with plans to build a cops city.

3531
03:20:13,600 --> 03:20:18,280
Speaker 1: The Police Foundation has contracted a few companies of Brassfield

3532
03:20:18,280 --> 03:20:22,199
Speaker 1: and Gory for one and Reeves Young. So these companies

3533
03:20:22,240 --> 03:20:25,800
Speaker 1: are the service provider. The shack model attempts to isolate

3534
03:20:25,959 --> 03:20:29,360
Speaker 1: the service provider, so reeves Young from all of their

3535
03:20:29,600 --> 03:20:33,720
Speaker 1: third party clients and contracts, which will in the end

3536
03:20:33,760 --> 03:20:35,920
Speaker 1: go back to hurt the actual target, which is the

3537
03:20:35,959 --> 03:20:39,440
Speaker 1: Atlanta Police Foundation back to crime think the service provider,

3538
03:20:39,680 --> 03:20:42,600
Speaker 1: so in this case, heves Young Uh. The service provider

3539
03:20:42,879 --> 03:20:46,800
Speaker 1: depends on many third parties. Third parties provide the service

3540
03:20:46,840 --> 03:20:54,400
Speaker 1: provider with insurance, materials, equipment, security, catering, cleaning, mail, service, data, maintenance,

3541
03:20:54,560 --> 03:20:57,959
Speaker 1: and more. All of those third parties can be pressured

3542
03:20:58,080 --> 03:21:01,560
Speaker 1: to drop the service provider. Furthermore, the service provider is

3543
03:21:01,680 --> 03:21:04,760
Speaker 1: likely a company with more than one client, and those

3544
03:21:04,879 --> 03:21:07,760
Speaker 1: other clients can also be pressured to drop the provider.

3545
03:21:08,400 --> 03:21:11,960
Speaker 1: Any company or contractor that is able to move their

3546
03:21:12,000 --> 03:21:14,840
Speaker 1: money away from the service provider because they have other

3547
03:21:14,959 --> 03:21:19,440
Speaker 1: economic opportunities can be pressured to do so. Essentially, this

3548
03:21:19,480 --> 03:21:22,119
Speaker 1: strategy does not directly challenge the bottom line of any

3549
03:21:22,240 --> 03:21:26,240
Speaker 1: of the third party companies. It only isolates and demoralizes

3550
03:21:26,360 --> 03:21:30,680
Speaker 1: the service provider and therefore the end target. Today, it

3551
03:21:30,800 --> 03:21:33,400
Speaker 1: still remains unclear who is the service provider for the

3552
03:21:33,520 --> 03:21:36,480
Speaker 1: Black Hall Studios development, although that information will come out

3553
03:21:36,600 --> 03:21:40,000
Speaker 1: sooner than later. In considering the limits of the shack

3554
03:21:40,040 --> 03:21:43,520
Speaker 1: strategy in actions outside of the forest, it might be

3555
03:21:43,640 --> 03:21:47,080
Speaker 1: more difficult for activists to maintain a sense of urgency.

3556
03:21:47,680 --> 03:21:51,160
Speaker 1: Targeting individuals at their offices and homes will chiefly bring

3557
03:21:51,240 --> 03:21:54,800
Speaker 1: out those who are excited about such confrontational methods, rather

3558
03:21:54,920 --> 03:21:57,840
Speaker 1: than those who prefer to maintain welcoming spaces of encounter,

3559
03:21:58,360 --> 03:22:01,720
Speaker 1: to build treehouses to or to clean campsites, to cook

3560
03:22:01,760 --> 03:22:05,400
Speaker 1: for others, to cultivate the kind of collective imagining that

3561
03:22:05,560 --> 03:22:09,640
Speaker 1: is needed to transform society. Also, if people fail to

3562
03:22:09,680 --> 03:22:13,600
Speaker 1: do proper research or mapping, activists could waste their time

3563
03:22:13,760 --> 03:22:18,119
Speaker 1: targeting minor institutions and companies that are unwilling or unable

3564
03:22:18,200 --> 03:22:21,280
Speaker 1: to drop their contracts. They could spend months facing down

3565
03:22:21,360 --> 03:22:27,680
Speaker 1: insignificant companies with many possible replacement subcontractors. Oh sorry, that

3566
03:22:27,840 --> 03:22:30,240
Speaker 1: was a lot. That was a big info dump, but

3567
03:22:30,280 --> 03:22:33,039
Speaker 1: I think it is useful information. So the goal isn't

3568
03:22:33,160 --> 03:22:37,800
Speaker 1: to sway companies with moralizing arguments, but to frame their

3569
03:22:37,800 --> 03:22:42,360
Speaker 1: association with militarized policing or ecological destruction as a bad

3570
03:22:42,480 --> 03:22:45,400
Speaker 1: look that could hurt their reputation and ability to secure

3571
03:22:45,520 --> 03:22:50,520
Speaker 1: future clients. Combined with economic consentives inflicted on the service

3572
03:22:50,560 --> 03:22:55,000
Speaker 1: provider like access sabotage, The resulting targeted campaign attacking physical

3573
03:22:55,080 --> 03:22:58,400
Speaker 1: and social capital can lead to pressure on third parties

3574
03:22:58,480 --> 03:23:00,880
Speaker 1: to influence the decision of this of its provider on

3575
03:23:00,959 --> 03:23:04,320
Speaker 1: whether or not to stay on the project. Methodologies can

3576
03:23:04,400 --> 03:23:06,840
Speaker 1: put to the test through practice and be judged by

3577
03:23:06,879 --> 03:23:10,680
Speaker 1: the outcome. The proposal to employ the shock strategy to

3578
03:23:10,760 --> 03:23:13,440
Speaker 1: defend the Forest is just built on the simple hypothesis

3579
03:23:13,600 --> 03:23:15,959
Speaker 1: that if Reeves Young is forced to drop the contract

3580
03:23:16,000 --> 03:23:19,400
Speaker 1: with Atlanta Police Foundation, the Atlanta Police Foundation investors will

3581
03:23:19,400 --> 03:23:22,320
Speaker 1: then lose the confidence that's required to find an adequate

3582
03:23:22,360 --> 03:23:26,520
Speaker 1: replacement and the project could stumble or fail. The same

3583
03:23:26,600 --> 03:23:30,560
Speaker 1: goes for the Black Hall project. If activists defeat Reeves

3584
03:23:30,640 --> 03:23:33,920
Speaker 1: Young by means of direct action and self organization, even

3585
03:23:33,959 --> 03:23:37,320
Speaker 1: if the project of finds a new contractor, sophistication and

3586
03:23:37,480 --> 03:23:40,000
Speaker 1: confidence in the movement will have developed in the process

3587
03:23:40,280 --> 03:23:44,160
Speaker 1: will likely help it evolve once again. Also, one thing

3588
03:23:44,240 --> 03:23:47,440
Speaker 1: that people have figured out because like for the first

3589
03:23:47,560 --> 03:23:50,880
Speaker 1: to after the first two arsons, you could literally just

3590
03:23:51,040 --> 03:23:56,200
Speaker 1: walk up to during daylight, up to the area of

3591
03:23:56,320 --> 03:24:01,440
Speaker 1: Michelle Opona Park and touch take pictures of like uh

3592
03:24:01,800 --> 03:24:05,760
Speaker 1: have sex around like make out with the construction equipment

3593
03:24:05,840 --> 03:24:08,120
Speaker 1: that I've been burned, and you could see the stickers

3594
03:24:08,440 --> 03:24:12,640
Speaker 1: of where they had rented these like construction equipment, UM

3595
03:24:13,520 --> 03:24:18,279
Speaker 1: destruction equipment, and like after the first one it changed,

3596
03:24:18,879 --> 03:24:20,800
Speaker 1: there was no longer rented from the same company, and

3597
03:24:20,879 --> 03:24:25,040
Speaker 1: after the second one it changed again. And there is

3598
03:24:25,440 --> 03:24:29,400
Speaker 1: reason to believe that with every arson or attack that

3599
03:24:29,560 --> 03:24:35,000
Speaker 1: they are changing construction equipment companies, because rental companies tend

3600
03:24:35,040 --> 03:24:37,920
Speaker 1: to not like it whenever their equipment is destroyed to

3601
03:24:38,000 --> 03:24:40,959
Speaker 1: cost them a lot of money, and oftentimes they cannot

3602
03:24:41,000 --> 03:24:45,880
Speaker 1: afford hundreds of thousands of dollars going down the drain

3603
03:24:46,000 --> 03:24:49,120
Speaker 1: be to support a pot project that is highly unpopular.

3604
03:24:50,200 --> 03:24:52,360
Speaker 1: And the other thing what we're talking about with the

3605
03:24:52,440 --> 03:24:56,279
Speaker 1: modified like a policing modifying itself as it's interesting because

3606
03:24:56,959 --> 03:25:00,160
Speaker 1: where at this point where policing is highly unpopular and

3607
03:25:00,240 --> 03:25:02,920
Speaker 1: so it's kind of hedging its bets, and it's doing

3608
03:25:02,959 --> 03:25:05,680
Speaker 1: two things. First, it's calling itself like the Social Peace

3609
03:25:05,760 --> 03:25:09,960
Speaker 1: and Justice cute Bunny Rabbits center for your racist if

3610
03:25:10,000 --> 03:25:13,000
Speaker 1: you don't like us or whatever. And then it's also

3611
03:25:13,160 --> 03:25:16,960
Speaker 1: just like mask off doubling down buying mad guns like

3612
03:25:17,520 --> 03:25:22,240
Speaker 1: like yet just becoming increasingly more militarized, increasingly more violent

3613
03:25:22,360 --> 03:25:25,960
Speaker 1: and like moving mask off like an occupying force. So

3614
03:25:26,080 --> 03:25:30,520
Speaker 1: there's this split where there's no and people are well

3615
03:25:30,560 --> 03:25:35,760
Speaker 1: aware of this. There's there's no like public chance of

3616
03:25:36,280 --> 03:25:43,240
Speaker 1: convincing UM a lot of companies that this is wrong. Right,

3617
03:25:43,320 --> 03:25:46,280
Speaker 1: there's it's it's it's well, it's very divided. So the

3618
03:25:46,360 --> 03:25:49,560
Speaker 1: people who are committed are very committed. There are fucking

3619
03:25:49,720 --> 03:25:53,560
Speaker 1: enemies and where their enemies and that's it. But then

3620
03:25:53,600 --> 03:25:56,400
Speaker 1: there's other people who are doing this for economic reasons

3621
03:25:56,640 --> 03:26:00,720
Speaker 1: and kind of understand that policing is not shoot right,

3622
03:26:00,800 --> 03:26:03,680
Speaker 1: and then it's at least unpopular, going out of fashion

3623
03:26:04,560 --> 03:26:08,000
Speaker 1: to some degree, and can make money in other ways.

3624
03:26:08,680 --> 03:26:13,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's this interesting thing where like being able

3625
03:26:13,080 --> 03:26:17,840
Speaker 1: to like fight battles for public opinion maybe doesn't super work,

3626
03:26:17,959 --> 03:26:20,720
Speaker 1: and all you have to do is um kind of

3627
03:26:20,800 --> 03:26:24,280
Speaker 1: trying to cut away the people who are supporting people

3628
03:26:24,360 --> 03:26:29,520
Speaker 1: who are ideologically committed to our destruction and we are,

3629
03:26:29,879 --> 03:26:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, feel reciprocal. If you look at the photos

3630
03:26:35,160 --> 03:26:38,520
Speaker 1: of what was happening with Michelle Obama Park the land

3631
03:26:38,560 --> 03:26:41,200
Speaker 1: swap site, they were trying to build on You can

3632
03:26:41,320 --> 03:26:45,560
Speaker 1: tell that heavy yellow Equipment LLC of Marietta, Georgia stopped

3633
03:26:45,640 --> 03:26:49,039
Speaker 1: providing them equipment after like the first or the second

3634
03:26:49,080 --> 03:26:51,440
Speaker 1: time that their machines got lit on fire. And now

3635
03:26:51,520 --> 03:26:55,200
Speaker 1: it's alf A l I f of I don't know

3636
03:26:55,280 --> 03:26:59,240
Speaker 1: where Georgia. So you know, these are photos that you

3637
03:26:59,320 --> 03:27:03,240
Speaker 1: can see, like you can look at these communicates and

3638
03:27:03,400 --> 03:27:06,760
Speaker 1: just tell like like like if there's a photo attached,

3639
03:27:07,240 --> 03:27:10,920
Speaker 1: like there is a traceable like trend of companies are

3640
03:27:11,000 --> 03:27:14,160
Speaker 1: dropping the funk out because they, for whatever reason, just

3641
03:27:14,320 --> 03:27:20,360
Speaker 1: cannot take the heat. On June twelve, while fully in

3642
03:27:20,440 --> 03:27:23,400
Speaker 1: the throes of nationwide revolts against police after the murder

3643
03:27:23,440 --> 03:27:27,440
Speaker 1: of George Floyd, two Atlanta police officers killed Ray Schard Brooks,

3644
03:27:27,760 --> 03:27:29,680
Speaker 1: a black man who had been sleeping in his car

3645
03:27:29,840 --> 03:27:32,680
Speaker 1: in the parking lot of a Wendy's. Not long after,

3646
03:27:32,840 --> 03:27:35,840
Speaker 1: the restaurant was burnt to the ground by determined crowds.

3647
03:27:36,840 --> 03:27:39,800
Speaker 1: In the time period between June to the end of

3648
03:27:39,840 --> 03:27:43,000
Speaker 1: the year, more than two hundred Atlanta police officers left

3649
03:27:43,040 --> 03:27:46,880
Speaker 1: their jobs, including the a chief of police, local sheriff's deputies,

3650
03:27:47,240 --> 03:27:50,720
Speaker 1: state patrolmen, and transit cops. Also resigned during the year

3651
03:27:50,760 --> 03:27:55,160
Speaker 1: of the uprising at a higher than average rate. As

3652
03:27:55,200 --> 03:27:58,840
Speaker 1: the entire system of policing and capitalism faced a crisis

3653
03:27:58,879 --> 03:28:04,560
Speaker 1: of legitimacy. Corporations, business owners, landlords, business associations, and international

3654
03:28:04,600 --> 03:28:09,280
Speaker 1: real estate companies demand a public pacification and a reassurance

3655
03:28:09,400 --> 03:28:14,240
Speaker 1: of a future with stable consumerism. Profit incentive and police

3656
03:28:14,440 --> 03:28:18,480
Speaker 1: need each other in a symbia like relationship. I'll do

3657
03:28:18,600 --> 03:28:21,760
Speaker 1: one of my last crime thing quotes here. Quote. Forces

3658
03:28:21,879 --> 03:28:25,960
Speaker 1: in local and federal government, business associations, police departments, and

3659
03:28:26,040 --> 03:28:29,520
Speaker 1: our militias have continuously worked to make sure a popular

3660
03:28:29,640 --> 03:28:34,199
Speaker 1: uprising does not reoccur. A large part of the institutional

3661
03:28:34,280 --> 03:28:39,199
Speaker 1: reaction to the popular uprising has focused on managing public perception.

3662
03:28:39,800 --> 03:28:44,320
Speaker 1: Industrial interests and private investment companies have conducted influence campaigns

3663
03:28:44,520 --> 03:28:48,959
Speaker 1: using local news outlets which are owned by Sinclair Broadcasting Group,

3664
03:28:49,280 --> 03:28:54,800
Speaker 1: a right wing news organization between Sinclair, Next Star, Gray, Tega,

3665
03:28:55,040 --> 03:28:59,560
Speaker 1: and Tribune. This coordinated reframing of events has damaged the

3666
03:28:59,600 --> 03:29:03,000
Speaker 1: way that many sectors of the television viewing public perceive

3667
03:29:03,800 --> 03:29:08,320
Speaker 1: revolt and its consequences. In the wake of the uprising,

3668
03:29:08,480 --> 03:29:12,240
Speaker 1: a false narrative circulated to the effect that police, while

3669
03:29:12,360 --> 03:29:17,000
Speaker 1: demoralized and underfunded, cannot control the crime waves currently sweeping

3670
03:29:17,040 --> 03:29:21,120
Speaker 1: the country. This orchestrated narrative has shaped the imaginations of

3671
03:29:21,160 --> 03:29:25,720
Speaker 1: suburban whites, small business owners, and many urban progressives. The

3672
03:29:25,840 --> 03:29:29,080
Speaker 1: crime wave framework implied that police departments around the country

3673
03:29:29,320 --> 03:29:32,480
Speaker 1: had in fact been defunded or had their powers curtailed,

3674
03:29:32,840 --> 03:29:36,640
Speaker 1: and were consequently unable to assure social peace or free enterprise.

3675
03:29:37,320 --> 03:29:40,400
Speaker 1: In reality, the vast majority of police departments received an

3676
03:29:40,440 --> 03:29:44,199
Speaker 1: annual increase in their budgets as they normally do. If anything,

3677
03:29:44,360 --> 03:29:49,120
Speaker 1: they accrued more power following the events of So it's

3678
03:29:49,320 --> 03:29:52,600
Speaker 1: no coincidence that the Atlanta Police Foundation and the Atlanta

3679
03:29:52,600 --> 03:29:56,400
Speaker 1: Police Department are pushing to build a militarized urban warfare

3680
03:29:56,480 --> 03:29:59,880
Speaker 1: training center in the wake of the uprisings. By lever

3681
03:30:00,200 --> 03:30:03,520
Speaker 1: ing that crime wave narrative and the fears of future

3682
03:30:03,760 --> 03:30:06,959
Speaker 1: social unrest, they want to have the tools to bring

3683
03:30:07,080 --> 03:30:11,600
Speaker 1: down the inevitable upcoming revolts for racial, environmental and economic justice,

3684
03:30:12,160 --> 03:30:16,879
Speaker 1: and now more than ever, including reproductive justice. Cops cities

3685
03:30:17,000 --> 03:30:18,959
Speaker 1: leading the charge is a part of a new effort

3686
03:30:19,040 --> 03:30:22,400
Speaker 1: to adapt American policing strategies to our new era of

3687
03:30:22,520 --> 03:30:26,800
Speaker 1: societal decay and the ever crumbling that will define this

3688
03:30:26,959 --> 03:30:31,520
Speaker 1: century as we face the escalating consequences of industrialization and

3689
03:30:31,720 --> 03:30:37,680
Speaker 1: climate change. I think another really important thing to look

3690
03:30:37,760 --> 03:30:41,800
Speaker 1: at this is like when you look at the Gurge

3691
03:30:41,840 --> 03:30:45,200
Speaker 1: Floyd uprising in the Crisis of Pride and policing and

3692
03:30:45,320 --> 03:30:49,160
Speaker 1: they realize that, oh, holy sh it, people are so

3693
03:30:49,520 --> 03:30:52,160
Speaker 1: angry about this that they will pose a threat to

3694
03:30:52,240 --> 03:30:54,680
Speaker 1: the sovereagety of the state, which is the first time

3695
03:30:54,760 --> 03:30:58,360
Speaker 1: that has happened in an extremely long time. When that

3696
03:30:58,640 --> 03:31:04,840
Speaker 1: finally happened, the state, the morale of police departments around

3697
03:31:05,120 --> 03:31:11,520
Speaker 1: the country was broken. Cops everywhere, we're like, it was

3698
03:31:11,600 --> 03:31:15,160
Speaker 1: a demoralizing thing. And when you think about cops as

3699
03:31:15,360 --> 03:31:20,880
Speaker 1: an occupying force, as an occupying military force, it thinking

3700
03:31:20,920 --> 03:31:25,360
Speaker 1: about the fact that we broke their morale is really important.

3701
03:31:25,480 --> 03:31:29,600
Speaker 1: And then thinking about this place as they intend to

3702
03:31:29,800 --> 03:31:35,080
Speaker 1: build a training facility to increase morale, which is a

3703
03:31:35,240 --> 03:31:40,840
Speaker 1: classic military tactic of create cool and interesting ways to

3704
03:31:41,000 --> 03:31:45,240
Speaker 1: train your soldiers to do a murder, is like, that

3705
03:31:45,560 --> 03:31:48,720
Speaker 1: is a classic military tactic. And when you think begin

3706
03:31:48,840 --> 03:31:52,080
Speaker 1: to think about this as social or when you begin

3707
03:31:52,160 --> 03:31:55,440
Speaker 1: to think about this as not just a struggle against

3708
03:31:55,520 --> 03:32:01,600
Speaker 1: cops city that like as a struggle for like disabling

3709
03:32:02,160 --> 03:32:05,840
Speaker 1: and destroying the police. When you think about this as

3710
03:32:06,080 --> 03:32:11,480
Speaker 1: a material struggle against the occupying forces that are the police,

3711
03:32:12,240 --> 03:32:17,039
Speaker 1: this becomes like way more contextual In fact, I feel

3712
03:32:17,080 --> 03:32:20,080
Speaker 1: like that is the best way to contextualize this movement.

3713
03:32:21,879 --> 03:32:26,160
Speaker 1: So one interesting thing is that after Rachard Brooks is

3714
03:32:26,280 --> 03:32:30,800
Speaker 1: murdered and the UM two cops involved were UM this

3715
03:32:31,040 --> 03:32:35,760
Speaker 1: substanquently charged UM what was it, six hundred tops went

3716
03:32:35,800 --> 03:32:41,520
Speaker 1: on seconut hundreds of hundreds UM, and their morale is broken.

3717
03:32:41,680 --> 03:32:46,640
Speaker 1: A land police has always been understaffed for like as

3718
03:32:46,680 --> 03:32:50,600
Speaker 1: long as I've known UM and not understaffed by any

3719
03:32:50,680 --> 03:32:54,240
Speaker 1: media propaganda spend standard there standards, but like every single

3720
03:32:54,400 --> 03:32:58,480
Speaker 1: day they're facing backlogs in every zone where they cannot

3721
03:32:58,560 --> 03:33:01,680
Speaker 1: answer calls. And it's a good thing. This is a

3722
03:33:01,760 --> 03:33:07,080
Speaker 1: war pattriction where their current training facilities have broken. Torrespneky

3723
03:33:07,200 --> 03:33:16,360
Speaker 1: pipes have have like have undeniably miserable conditions. Their cars

3724
03:33:16,400 --> 03:33:20,840
Speaker 1: are out, their cars are like continually on their last legs,

3725
03:33:21,640 --> 03:33:25,280
Speaker 1: and we that's that is a path to abolition, is

3726
03:33:25,480 --> 03:33:27,840
Speaker 1: making it so it is so undesirable to be a

3727
03:33:27,959 --> 03:33:31,280
Speaker 1: cop in this city or any city that no one

3728
03:33:31,360 --> 03:33:34,600
Speaker 1: would dare do it. It is crucial that police are

3729
03:33:34,680 --> 03:33:37,240
Speaker 1: not the only ones that seek to evolve their tactics

3730
03:33:37,360 --> 03:33:40,640
Speaker 1: for a new era and moving beyond the kind of

3731
03:33:40,800 --> 03:33:44,160
Speaker 1: non violent action that's become so common during protests during

3732
03:33:44,160 --> 03:33:47,000
Speaker 1: the Trump era and the post Green Scare, and even

3733
03:33:47,040 --> 03:33:50,400
Speaker 1: like post occupy, there is this looking for a new

3734
03:33:50,560 --> 03:33:56,280
Speaker 1: form of anarchist or radical resistance. Really emphasized the learning

3735
03:33:56,400 --> 03:34:01,359
Speaker 1: things here is that this struggle took all the different rulebooks,

3736
03:34:01,480 --> 03:34:03,440
Speaker 1: tore them up, set them on fire, and use the

3737
03:34:03,520 --> 03:34:08,480
Speaker 1: ashes for their shutter. Like everyone here is learning things.

3738
03:34:08,600 --> 03:34:11,400
Speaker 1: People who have been who have been doing things along

3739
03:34:11,640 --> 03:34:17,080
Speaker 1: fucking time are here and learning new things. We're we're

3740
03:34:17,120 --> 03:34:21,320
Speaker 1: not just like tearing up and like destroying the rule books.

3741
03:34:21,840 --> 03:34:32,200
Speaker 1: We're like we're like larges out of the were weird. Yeah, yeah,

3742
03:34:33,600 --> 03:34:37,120
Speaker 1: like put them like like tore all of them up

3743
03:34:37,200 --> 03:34:40,640
Speaker 1: and make allogious out of them, and is trying to

3744
03:34:40,720 --> 03:34:44,400
Speaker 1: create this like weird paper machee mesh of a experimental

3745
03:34:45,040 --> 03:34:49,280
Speaker 1: path into the future. And and like we wouldn't when

3746
03:34:49,360 --> 03:34:53,920
Speaker 1: we say we are experimenting with new forms of revolt,

3747
03:34:54,080 --> 03:34:58,600
Speaker 1: new new tactics, new strategies, we truly mean, there aren't

3748
03:34:58,760 --> 03:35:02,840
Speaker 1: existing models to do what we're doing. We are writing

3749
03:35:03,280 --> 03:35:06,240
Speaker 1: the book as we could do it, and yeah, we

3750
03:35:06,400 --> 03:35:09,520
Speaker 1: sunk up sometimes, but we've also got some really cool

3751
03:35:09,680 --> 03:35:13,640
Speaker 1: ship happening. Ship that hasn't happened in twenty years is happening,

3752
03:35:13,879 --> 03:35:18,000
Speaker 1: and ship that hasn't happened ever is happening here. And

3753
03:35:18,080 --> 03:35:24,000
Speaker 1: I think that's like a really it's a really important

3754
03:35:24,120 --> 03:35:28,800
Speaker 1: thing to touch on. Is that, like much of the

3755
03:35:31,080 --> 03:35:34,520
Speaker 1: you know, much of the like Eco defensship that's happened

3756
03:35:34,560 --> 03:35:38,480
Speaker 1: in North America that for quite a while has like

3757
03:35:39,240 --> 03:35:43,840
Speaker 1: not done, you know, or at least not released, communicates

3758
03:35:43,879 --> 03:35:50,400
Speaker 1: about like ship that happens here seemingly every couple of weeks. Now,

3759
03:35:51,720 --> 03:35:59,280
Speaker 1: like the ship here is crazy and wild under dreams.

3760
03:35:59,720 --> 03:36:04,800
Speaker 1: It's also scary and hard and dramatizing, and it's beautiful

3761
03:36:05,000 --> 03:36:13,560
Speaker 1: and terrifying and like, yeah, that sounds great, you should come. Yeah,

3762
03:36:13,640 --> 03:36:16,959
Speaker 1: this's is such a way from us actually evolving out

3763
03:36:17,040 --> 03:36:19,480
Speaker 1: of a I look at this as like a huge

3764
03:36:19,520 --> 03:36:25,160
Speaker 1: step in what land defense looks like after we have,

3765
03:36:28,400 --> 03:36:31,240
Speaker 1: after we have faced green Scare repression, and now we

3766
03:36:31,320 --> 03:36:35,280
Speaker 1: are moving past the post green Scare repression movements and

3767
03:36:35,520 --> 03:36:39,400
Speaker 1: figuring out how to move forward and regardless of it.

3768
03:36:39,520 --> 03:36:43,800
Speaker 1: For this like uh lands and are really repressive like

3769
03:36:44,000 --> 03:36:48,800
Speaker 1: boot sounded throats like situation. I don't think anyone should

3770
03:36:48,840 --> 03:36:51,600
Speaker 1: ever stop experimenting. I don't think people should go back

3771
03:36:51,680 --> 03:36:54,000
Speaker 1: to the old ways. I don't think that we should

3772
03:36:54,000 --> 03:36:57,440
Speaker 1: be resigned to not experiment. I think that everyone, like

3773
03:36:57,560 --> 03:37:01,520
Speaker 1: we are in a situation where there is nor future.

3774
03:37:01,560 --> 03:37:05,680
Speaker 1: They're like the collapses now, we're probably not going to

3775
03:37:06,000 --> 03:37:09,000
Speaker 1: avoid one point five degrees warming. Our police are only

3776
03:37:09,120 --> 03:37:14,240
Speaker 1: further mailitarizing, and the like reality of resistance is that

3777
03:37:14,360 --> 03:37:19,880
Speaker 1: we that we best, that we need experimentation. Yeah, if

3778
03:37:19,920 --> 03:37:22,360
Speaker 1: there was a winning strategy that was proven to be effective,

3779
03:37:23,240 --> 03:37:26,080
Speaker 1: then it would have it would have been effective in therapy,

3780
03:37:26,160 --> 03:37:30,000
Speaker 1: we would have a winning strategy. There's a popular name

3781
03:37:30,040 --> 03:37:34,200
Speaker 1: in the forest which is the arena instead of are you,

3782
03:37:35,680 --> 03:37:40,240
Speaker 1: are you experiencing the joy of attacks on um? And

3783
03:37:40,320 --> 03:37:43,920
Speaker 1: I think that is an important line the same way

3784
03:37:44,000 --> 03:37:46,400
Speaker 1: Cops City is a part of the new evolution of

3785
03:37:46,440 --> 03:37:49,920
Speaker 1: American policing. Defend the Atlanta Forest can be seen as

3786
03:37:50,000 --> 03:37:53,920
Speaker 1: kind of trailblazing for future movements, a look at how

3787
03:37:54,000 --> 03:37:58,080
Speaker 1: they might develop post the George Floyd protests for my

3788
03:37:58,440 --> 03:38:03,960
Speaker 1: last final cry think quote quote. This campaign represents a

3789
03:38:04,040 --> 03:38:06,760
Speaker 1: crucial effort to chart new paths forward in the wake

3790
03:38:06,840 --> 03:38:09,920
Speaker 1: of the George Floyd rebellion, linking the defense of the

3791
03:38:10,000 --> 03:38:13,640
Speaker 1: land that sustains us with the struggle against police. The

3792
03:38:13,720 --> 03:38:17,400
Speaker 1: movement opposed these developments, mobilizing around the watchwords defend the

3793
03:38:17,480 --> 03:38:20,760
Speaker 1: Forest and stop coops City, have passed through several phases

3794
03:38:20,760 --> 03:38:24,360
Speaker 1: of experimentation, using a wide array of tactics and strategies

3795
03:38:24,440 --> 03:38:27,680
Speaker 1: to keep pace with the current course of events. It

3796
03:38:27,760 --> 03:38:32,279
Speaker 1: represents an important effort to revitalize eco defense and police

3797
03:38:32,320 --> 03:38:36,520
Speaker 1: abolition strategies in the wake of the George Floyd rebellion. So,

3798
03:38:36,800 --> 03:38:40,560
Speaker 1: considering the possible wide ranging impacts of both the evolution

3799
03:38:40,600 --> 03:38:44,320
Speaker 1: of policing and the evolution of resistance tactics that defend

3800
03:38:44,360 --> 03:38:47,120
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Force movement is extremely relevant to all people

3801
03:38:47,160 --> 03:38:49,560
Speaker 1: who want to improve the world, whether or not they

3802
03:38:49,640 --> 03:38:58,680
Speaker 1: live in Atlanta. Atlanta as a testing ground floor new

3803
03:38:58,800 --> 03:39:04,000
Speaker 1: surveillance tech and like in like experimenting with new forms

3804
03:39:04,080 --> 03:39:09,840
Speaker 1: of struggle. Here in Atlanta, there are things that not

3805
03:39:10,000 --> 03:39:13,000
Speaker 1: only are we in many ways on the front lines

3806
03:39:13,080 --> 03:39:17,560
Speaker 1: of experimenting with new tactics and integrating new strategies and

3807
03:39:17,680 --> 03:39:20,520
Speaker 1: how they work. But we're also on the front lines

3808
03:39:20,720 --> 03:39:26,039
Speaker 1: of like different kinds of both like like in person

3809
03:39:26,240 --> 03:39:30,560
Speaker 1: and digital forms of oppression that don't have to be

3810
03:39:30,640 --> 03:39:35,800
Speaker 1: worried about other places, and like it also provides approving

3811
03:39:35,920 --> 03:39:40,760
Speaker 1: ground for ways to struggle specifically against those forms of

3812
03:39:40,879 --> 03:39:48,040
Speaker 1: surveillance and understanding the different ways that sometimes the most

3813
03:39:48,640 --> 03:39:53,880
Speaker 1: effective thing in protecting yourself from oppression isn't some super

3814
03:39:54,000 --> 03:39:58,280
Speaker 1: high tech ship. It's a ski mask of paragloves and

3815
03:39:58,360 --> 03:40:02,240
Speaker 1: not bringing your phone, and like people don't seem to

3816
03:40:02,520 --> 03:40:07,480
Speaker 1: like think about that that I don't need to. But yeah, um,

3817
03:40:07,959 --> 03:40:12,520
Speaker 1: so speaking of surveillance, we actually have like not we

3818
03:40:12,959 --> 03:40:16,000
Speaker 1: I don't claim that, um, the police here and the

3819
03:40:16,080 --> 03:40:18,920
Speaker 1: state here has like the video Video Integration System, which

3820
03:40:18,959 --> 03:40:21,520
Speaker 1: I believe is like one of our re integrations video

3821
03:40:21,560 --> 03:40:26,440
Speaker 1: integration center where they take where businesses and homeowners of

3822
03:40:26,520 --> 03:40:29,600
Speaker 1: like ring cameras can volunteer their video surveillance equipment to

3823
03:40:29,680 --> 03:40:33,640
Speaker 1: be plugged into a network UM that can be monitored

3824
03:40:33,680 --> 03:40:36,400
Speaker 1: and pulled up at any time by the police UM

3825
03:40:36,640 --> 03:40:44,800
Speaker 1: in a downtown location and they and that is like

3826
03:40:44,879 --> 03:40:48,520
Speaker 1: one of the largest surveillance network systems in the world,

3827
03:40:48,600 --> 03:40:52,360
Speaker 1: I believe, um and it is actually reading the charge

3828
03:40:52,480 --> 03:40:54,760
Speaker 1: in like new forms of surveillance, and other cities are

3829
03:40:54,920 --> 03:40:58,680
Speaker 1: looking at this as a model of how to sure

3830
03:40:58,879 --> 03:41:03,520
Speaker 1: how to better surveillan own cities, which obviously makes one

3831
03:41:03,560 --> 03:41:06,640
Speaker 1: police defination trying to create their own little mini city

3832
03:41:06,680 --> 03:41:09,360
Speaker 1: a very interesting prospect in terms of like establishing new

3833
03:41:09,680 --> 03:41:11,320
Speaker 1: you know this this is mentioned before, which was like

3834
03:41:11,400 --> 03:41:14,280
Speaker 1: establishing new ideas and how to take policing forward into

3835
03:41:15,800 --> 03:41:18,880
Speaker 1: thirties after we've had these wave of social justice like

3836
03:41:18,959 --> 03:41:22,560
Speaker 1: uprising and uprisings for Black Lives Matter, um with you know.

3837
03:41:22,680 --> 03:41:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean not many places actually got defunded, but the

3838
03:41:26,080 --> 03:41:29,040
Speaker 1: propaganda has to be different, and like the way the

3839
03:41:29,040 --> 03:41:32,360
Speaker 1: police optics work definitely needs to be changed from their

3840
03:41:32,400 --> 03:41:35,280
Speaker 1: perspective or they're trying to have them be changed. One

3841
03:41:35,320 --> 03:41:37,880
Speaker 1: of the strongest things I feel like came out of

3842
03:41:37,920 --> 03:41:42,200
Speaker 1: this movement really pass ahead was our ability to have

3843
03:41:42,320 --> 03:41:44,720
Speaker 1: their game on, like the narrative and then never being

3844
03:41:44,760 --> 03:41:48,120
Speaker 1: able to recuperate that narrative because their plan was this

3845
03:41:48,360 --> 03:41:51,359
Speaker 1: answerstude for centual justice. There's a new way of training

3846
03:41:51,440 --> 03:41:56,160
Speaker 1: police to quote be better or like not murder people

3847
03:41:56,240 --> 03:42:03,080
Speaker 1: as much and like more refined. Um, And I don't

3848
03:42:03,120 --> 03:42:08,240
Speaker 1: want more refined like police that like murder quote the

3849
03:42:08,400 --> 03:42:12,360
Speaker 1: right people, or the right people, or cage the right people.

3850
03:42:13,520 --> 03:42:18,240
Speaker 1: That's not my desire. I went into police, and yeah,

3851
03:42:18,240 --> 03:42:20,200
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of projects happening in

3852
03:42:20,240 --> 03:42:23,160
Speaker 1: the forest. And you know, I also just want to emphasize,

3853
03:42:23,200 --> 03:42:26,040
Speaker 1: like I'm not from Atlanta, but I feel like it's

3854
03:42:26,080 --> 03:42:28,560
Speaker 1: really important for me to be here. You know, I

3855
03:42:28,640 --> 03:42:30,720
Speaker 1: think a lot of people who felt inspired by the

3856
03:42:30,760 --> 03:42:35,080
Speaker 1: George Floyd uprising, like, um, this is an attempt to recuperate.

3857
03:42:35,160 --> 03:42:36,600
Speaker 1: Like I've said this a million times, it's a time

3858
03:42:36,680 --> 03:42:38,520
Speaker 1: for the police to recuperate from that. I'm trying to

3859
03:42:38,560 --> 03:42:41,200
Speaker 1: finish what we started. I also think that we need

3860
03:42:41,280 --> 03:42:44,040
Speaker 1: to understand that this isn't just about Atlanta. Like one

3861
03:42:44,080 --> 03:42:46,840
Speaker 1: of the buildings that they're trying to build, and like

3862
03:42:46,959 --> 03:42:49,240
Speaker 1: one of the points of this training facility is that

3863
03:42:49,400 --> 03:42:51,640
Speaker 1: it is like a hub in the same way Atlanta

3864
03:42:52,240 --> 03:42:54,080
Speaker 1: with a with a movie theater, the same way they're

3865
03:42:54,080 --> 03:42:57,040
Speaker 1: trying to make Atlanta this hub. Right, It's there's an

3866
03:42:57,080 --> 03:42:59,640
Speaker 1: infrastructure for being a hub from shipping and stuff like that,

3867
03:43:00,080 --> 03:43:01,600
Speaker 1: and so now they're trying to make it this this

3868
03:43:01,800 --> 03:43:05,200
Speaker 1: economic habital or white collar way, and so they're trying

3869
03:43:05,240 --> 03:43:07,680
Speaker 1: to make it a hub for police in Atlanta, but

3870
03:43:07,800 --> 03:43:10,720
Speaker 1: also to train police to do fucked ship and to

3871
03:43:10,879 --> 03:43:14,880
Speaker 1: mutate like nationally. And I know that the police from

3872
03:43:14,920 --> 03:43:18,160
Speaker 1: the you know, whatever city I live in are probably

3873
03:43:18,200 --> 03:43:20,840
Speaker 1: going to come here and go back and funk that up.

3874
03:43:20,840 --> 03:43:23,520
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to make sure that they can't come here,

3875
03:43:23,600 --> 03:43:26,960
Speaker 1: and that you know, police are demoralized in every city

3876
03:43:27,560 --> 03:43:29,959
Speaker 1: and they're having trouble on every city. And this isn't

3877
03:43:30,000 --> 03:43:32,080
Speaker 1: just about the A p D. If you live pretty

3878
03:43:32,160 --> 03:43:34,800
Speaker 1: much anywhere on the East Coast, there's a high chance

3879
03:43:35,080 --> 03:43:36,959
Speaker 1: that your police are going to come here and then

3880
03:43:37,080 --> 03:43:39,600
Speaker 1: go back to your house and funk you up. So

3881
03:43:39,800 --> 03:43:42,640
Speaker 1: come here and make sure they can't. And the other

3882
03:43:42,720 --> 03:43:45,680
Speaker 1: thing I want to say is like, um, yeah, they

3883
03:43:45,720 --> 03:43:49,040
Speaker 1: want to make this a training facility for police right now,

3884
03:43:49,360 --> 03:43:52,920
Speaker 1: it is a training facility for anarchists. If you come here,

3885
03:43:53,400 --> 03:43:56,600
Speaker 1: I promise you you will leave with more courage and

3886
03:43:56,720 --> 03:44:00,280
Speaker 1: with more skills and knowing a lot of fucking people

3887
03:44:00,400 --> 03:44:04,480
Speaker 1: who are really fucking down all over the country. Um,

3888
03:44:04,879 --> 03:44:09,440
Speaker 1: and I think it's worth I wanted to jump in

3889
03:44:09,560 --> 03:44:14,320
Speaker 1: and say, like, this is about you. Um. An hour

3890
03:44:14,720 --> 03:44:16,600
Speaker 1: or two hours south of here is the School of

3891
03:44:16,640 --> 03:44:18,800
Speaker 1: the America's you might have heard of it. It's here

3892
03:44:18,920 --> 03:44:24,240
Speaker 1: in Georgia. It's where a lot of awful fucking dictators

3893
03:44:24,280 --> 03:44:26,800
Speaker 1: and their henchmen learned how to do really awful ship

3894
03:44:26,879 --> 03:44:29,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of war crimes. And here in the city

3895
03:44:29,800 --> 03:44:35,320
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, a local school, the largest, the largest university

3896
03:44:35,440 --> 03:44:38,000
Speaker 1: in the state, Georgia State University, hears something called the

3897
03:44:38,080 --> 03:44:42,160
Speaker 1: Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange or GILLY, which is where

3898
03:44:42,280 --> 03:44:46,080
Speaker 1: they and the i DF get together to train local

3899
03:44:46,240 --> 03:44:49,160
Speaker 1: police forces here in Atlanta and around the country. And

3900
03:44:49,240 --> 03:44:52,360
Speaker 1: if you don't think that Cops City is going to

3901
03:44:52,480 --> 03:44:55,960
Speaker 1: play a huge role in your police department learning from

3902
03:44:56,000 --> 03:44:59,000
Speaker 1: the i d F how to beat you up, you

3903
03:44:59,080 --> 03:45:01,880
Speaker 1: have another thing coming. You should come here to Atlanta.

3904
03:45:02,640 --> 03:45:05,640
Speaker 1: What's going on because this is about everyone here, like

3905
03:45:05,879 --> 03:45:09,880
Speaker 1: it's about the whole country. They're coming to Atlanta to

3906
03:45:10,200 --> 03:45:14,080
Speaker 1: learn how to brutalize people, and it's going to stop it.

3907
03:45:15,040 --> 03:45:17,520
Speaker 1: A funny thing about this project is that there's these

3908
03:45:17,680 --> 03:45:22,840
Speaker 1: sort of dual intersections and dual microcosms. On one side,

3909
03:45:22,959 --> 03:45:28,119
Speaker 1: there is the intersection of policing, gentrification, racism, ecological destruction,

3910
03:45:28,280 --> 03:45:30,800
Speaker 1: and climate change. And on the other side there's the

3911
03:45:30,840 --> 03:45:34,800
Speaker 1: intersection between the tactics of urban city protest and rule

3912
03:45:34,920 --> 03:45:39,400
Speaker 1: eco defense. But there's also this dual microcosm. On the

3913
03:45:39,440 --> 03:45:41,800
Speaker 1: side of the state, they're trying to construct this police

3914
03:45:41,840 --> 03:45:45,560
Speaker 1: facility with a mock city to train in microcosm for

3915
03:45:45,840 --> 03:45:49,760
Speaker 1: protest suppression and practice urban combat against people who live

3916
03:45:49,840 --> 03:45:53,280
Speaker 1: in American cities. And on the people's side, there's this

3917
03:45:53,360 --> 03:45:56,680
Speaker 1: microcosm not only for how resistance movements can evolve post

3918
03:45:57,879 --> 03:46:00,680
Speaker 1: but more importantly for the people involve been the struggle,

3919
03:46:01,160 --> 03:46:04,160
Speaker 1: a microcosm for how you can live a life free

3920
03:46:04,200 --> 03:46:07,480
Speaker 1: of the oppressive societal mechanisms that we claim to oppose.

3921
03:46:08,440 --> 03:46:12,120
Speaker 1: I think another really interesting thing about this being like

3922
03:46:12,280 --> 03:46:17,440
Speaker 1: such an ungovernable space is that because it's ungefinitable, because

3923
03:46:17,480 --> 03:46:21,120
Speaker 1: it's impossible to control, it allows us to create these

3924
03:46:21,600 --> 03:46:24,880
Speaker 1: new ways of relating to the trouble there that can't

3925
03:46:24,959 --> 03:46:29,119
Speaker 1: happen in other places. Like where else are like people

3926
03:46:29,320 --> 03:46:32,280
Speaker 1: and their everyday lives just gonna be able to walk

3927
03:46:32,320 --> 03:46:37,400
Speaker 1: around as gender funded as they want, and like it's fine,

3928
03:46:37,800 --> 03:46:41,480
Speaker 1: Like you know, if they're a clear basher comes into

3929
03:46:41,520 --> 03:46:44,680
Speaker 1: these fucking woods, like, it's gonna be a bad time

3930
03:46:44,720 --> 03:46:50,959
Speaker 1: because literally everyone here is queer, like we don't. That's

3931
03:46:51,040 --> 03:46:54,320
Speaker 1: the thing is like, when we exist in these spaces

3932
03:46:55,000 --> 03:47:00,400
Speaker 1: in this ungovernable way, we like our like create many

3933
03:47:00,560 --> 03:47:04,440
Speaker 1: versions of Yeah, this thing I want to talk to about,

3934
03:47:04,520 --> 03:47:05,880
Speaker 1: something I wanted to talk about in terms of like

3935
03:47:05,959 --> 03:47:10,960
Speaker 1: the microcos the macrocosm idea of after uprising, looking for

3936
03:47:11,080 --> 03:47:14,640
Speaker 1: new paths forward, the depending on a forest thing can

3937
03:47:14,720 --> 03:47:18,800
Speaker 1: be viewed as this microcost, like this micro causum of

3938
03:47:18,959 --> 03:47:22,640
Speaker 1: how we can approach different struggles going into going into

3939
03:47:22,680 --> 03:47:25,960
Speaker 1: twenties and stuff um, because yeah, like it is like

3940
03:47:26,040 --> 03:47:28,840
Speaker 1: this small version of what we want. There's also the

3941
03:47:28,879 --> 03:47:32,240
Speaker 1: whole idea of like what I've seen here in the

3942
03:47:32,360 --> 03:47:36,360
Speaker 1: forest more closely resembles like an actual temporary autonomous zone

3943
03:47:36,360 --> 03:47:38,520
Speaker 1: than like the chads ever did in terms of like

3944
03:47:38,600 --> 03:47:42,560
Speaker 1: people actually like actually living free, actually living like not

3945
03:47:42,879 --> 03:47:46,400
Speaker 1: relying on like city water, like not like not living

3946
03:47:46,440 --> 03:47:49,480
Speaker 1: in like the downtown metro area. It's like it's an

3947
03:47:49,520 --> 03:47:53,760
Speaker 1: actual free space where people can be queer and be

3948
03:47:53,959 --> 03:47:57,400
Speaker 1: all of the things and climb trees and talk with

3949
03:47:57,560 --> 03:48:00,960
Speaker 1: the deer and like that's people are actually allowed to

3950
03:48:01,040 --> 03:48:02,920
Speaker 1: do that, Like there's there's not all of the stigma

3951
03:48:03,000 --> 03:48:06,840
Speaker 1: that even I think like Chazz had like so many problems,

3952
03:48:07,000 --> 03:48:11,920
Speaker 1: right like extremely extremely hashtag problematic in terms of how

3953
03:48:12,000 --> 03:48:15,720
Speaker 1: that resulted. Um, And yeah, this is such a microcosm

3954
03:48:15,760 --> 03:48:18,880
Speaker 1: of like like an autonomous area where people are able

3955
03:48:18,920 --> 03:48:21,880
Speaker 1: to do those things. I also kind of want to

3956
03:48:21,920 --> 03:48:24,800
Speaker 1: talk about like the like idea our ideas of safety

3957
03:48:24,840 --> 03:48:30,280
Speaker 1: and security don't reside and like the ideas of say

3958
03:48:30,440 --> 03:48:33,960
Speaker 1: a safety or security for us, it doesn't really resides

3959
03:48:34,000 --> 03:48:36,320
Speaker 1: in our trust in ourselves and each other. It resides

3960
03:48:36,360 --> 03:48:39,760
Speaker 1: and like we actually keep each other safe. We have

3961
03:48:40,000 --> 03:48:44,640
Speaker 1: each other's backs, we will fight for each other, and

3962
03:48:45,360 --> 03:48:48,959
Speaker 1: any threat to any one of us is like taken seriously.

3963
03:48:50,120 --> 03:48:56,119
Speaker 1: We have this like intimacy, criminal intimacy like allows us

3964
03:48:56,360 --> 03:49:02,240
Speaker 1: to build more chin win relationships with high highs and

3965
03:49:02,520 --> 03:49:06,360
Speaker 1: low lows than anything ever could. And like the deadening

3966
03:49:06,520 --> 03:49:14,040
Speaker 1: that society puts on us, this like chemically induced regulated

3967
03:49:14,280 --> 03:49:20,520
Speaker 1: median of gray and terrible is that's not what we live. Yes,

3968
03:49:20,720 --> 03:49:24,200
Speaker 1: some days here it sucks to wake up and everything

3969
03:49:24,280 --> 03:49:27,080
Speaker 1: you own use wet and you gotta go ship in

3970
03:49:27,160 --> 03:49:31,760
Speaker 1: a hole that it's flitted. But also some days things

3971
03:49:31,880 --> 03:49:35,360
Speaker 1: here are fucking awesome, and I get to wake up

3972
03:49:35,480 --> 03:49:38,720
Speaker 1: to the birds calling and go like have a party

3973
03:49:38,800 --> 03:49:42,320
Speaker 1: with my friends. I don't like exist here in a

3974
03:49:42,440 --> 03:49:47,800
Speaker 1: way that is like comprehensible or legible to like a

3975
03:49:48,000 --> 03:49:51,240
Speaker 1: wider like society. I don't exist in a way that

3976
03:49:51,400 --> 03:49:54,480
Speaker 1: people look at this and be like, ah, that's what

3977
03:49:54,640 --> 03:49:58,320
Speaker 1: you need. But I have never been happier than when

3978
03:49:58,360 --> 03:50:01,040
Speaker 1: I've been in the woods with people I trust and

3979
03:50:01,200 --> 03:50:06,840
Speaker 1: care about and don't have my back. People people don't

3980
03:50:06,880 --> 03:50:09,360
Speaker 1: have to worry about working to pay their water bill

3981
03:50:09,440 --> 03:50:12,400
Speaker 1: because you can go just get the things you need

3982
03:50:12,560 --> 03:50:15,080
Speaker 1: from places you don't have to pay for it, And

3983
03:50:15,240 --> 03:50:18,720
Speaker 1: like you don't have to worry about all of these things,

3984
03:50:18,840 --> 03:50:22,320
Speaker 1: all of these societal pressures. There's not this constant threat

3985
03:50:22,400 --> 03:50:25,720
Speaker 1: of oh I lose my job. Oh all those things,

3986
03:50:25,800 --> 03:50:29,360
Speaker 1: all those things, all these mental constructs that control us

3987
03:50:29,920 --> 03:50:34,600
Speaker 1: aren't there anymore. Because we've built a world it doesn't

3988
03:50:35,480 --> 03:50:38,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't rely on that in the slightest, And I

3989
03:50:38,840 --> 03:50:44,520
Speaker 1: think that's like a really powerful thing that like we've

3990
03:50:44,760 --> 03:50:48,120
Speaker 1: already met our own needs and so we can fight

3991
03:50:48,240 --> 03:50:54,600
Speaker 1: back in these beautiful and fiery ways. Pun intended that

3992
03:50:54,800 --> 03:50:59,800
Speaker 1: like allow us to just experience things that like have

3993
03:51:00,120 --> 03:51:05,440
Speaker 1: been stolen from us generations. Yeah, I was going to say,

3994
03:51:05,480 --> 03:51:07,680
Speaker 1: we're not safe, but we're free. And I think that

3995
03:51:07,800 --> 03:51:10,800
Speaker 1: anyone who makes that decision is an active decision to

3996
03:51:10,960 --> 03:51:13,520
Speaker 1: not be safe, but to be free. I may not light,

3997
03:51:13,680 --> 03:51:17,680
Speaker 1: but by definition ILL ride for them. Because we're now

3998
03:51:17,920 --> 03:51:20,480
Speaker 1: nearing the end of the episode, but before I finish,

3999
03:51:20,560 --> 03:51:22,800
Speaker 1: I need to go back to talking about tactics for

4000
03:51:22,920 --> 03:51:26,920
Speaker 1: a bit and end with some actual good news. From

4001
03:51:27,000 --> 03:51:31,400
Speaker 1: January to present time of recording, there's been an increase

4002
03:51:31,440 --> 03:51:35,240
Speaker 1: in solidarity attacks in cities across the country, some targeting

4003
03:51:35,320 --> 03:51:39,040
Speaker 1: Reeves Young and Long engineering equipment in other states a

4004
03:51:39,160 --> 03:51:43,840
Speaker 1: third party service providers of contracted construction companies or locations

4005
03:51:43,880 --> 03:51:46,880
Speaker 1: and offices of corporate sponsors of the Atlanta Police Foundation.

4006
03:51:47,720 --> 03:51:51,760
Speaker 1: This past March, six machines owned by Reeves Young, including

4007
03:51:51,800 --> 03:51:56,440
Speaker 1: two large excavators and a bulldozer, were destroyed in Flowery Branch, Georgia.

4008
03:51:57,080 --> 03:52:01,000
Speaker 1: The online communicate reads, quote, so long as you continue

4009
03:52:01,040 --> 03:52:03,880
Speaker 1: to contract with the Atlanta Police Foundation for the destruction

4010
03:52:04,000 --> 03:52:07,000
Speaker 1: of the South Atlanta Forest and the construction of a

4011
03:52:07,080 --> 03:52:10,280
Speaker 1: Cops City in its place. Know that your equipment is

4012
03:52:10,320 --> 03:52:13,760
Speaker 1: not safe, your offices are not safe, your homes are

4013
03:52:13,840 --> 03:52:16,800
Speaker 1: not safe. Unless your company chooses to pull out of

4014
03:52:16,840 --> 03:52:19,880
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police Foundation's Cop City project of its own volition,

4015
03:52:20,440 --> 03:52:23,600
Speaker 1: we will undermine your profits so severely that you'll have

4016
03:52:23,720 --> 03:52:28,560
Speaker 1: no choice but to drop the contract unquote. Subsequent solidarity

4017
03:52:28,600 --> 03:52:33,880
Speaker 1: attacks have happened in Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis,

4018
03:52:34,080 --> 03:52:37,320
Speaker 1: and Highland, Michigan, to name a few. Many of these

4019
03:52:37,320 --> 03:52:41,400
Speaker 1: attacks were targeted at Atlas Technical consultants, who own many

4020
03:52:41,480 --> 03:52:44,480
Speaker 1: smaller companies such as Long Engineering, which has done work

4021
03:52:44,600 --> 03:52:47,120
Speaker 1: with Reeves Young and brass Field and Gory for the

4022
03:52:47,200 --> 03:52:50,920
Speaker 1: Cops City project. In the vein of shack style methods.

4023
03:52:51,360 --> 03:52:55,120
Speaker 1: This past April, on the ninth, a website called stop

4024
03:52:55,240 --> 03:53:00,520
Speaker 1: Reeves Young dot Com launched onto the interwebs. The listed

4025
03:53:00,600 --> 03:53:04,440
Speaker 1: some of the various third party clients and subcontractors under

4026
03:53:04,480 --> 03:53:08,000
Speaker 1: Reeves Young Construction and ways to contact them to voice

4027
03:53:08,040 --> 03:53:12,000
Speaker 1: concern about their relation to the deforestation and this urban

4028
03:53:12,200 --> 03:53:15,840
Speaker 1: warfare construction project, as well as including the names and

4029
03:53:15,840 --> 03:53:19,240
Speaker 1: addresses of executives within Reeves Young and some of their

4030
03:53:19,280 --> 03:53:22,640
Speaker 1: affiliates on the day I was set to leave Atlanta

4031
03:53:22,840 --> 03:53:24,840
Speaker 1: and say goodbye to the forest for the time being,

4032
03:53:25,440 --> 03:53:28,800
Speaker 1: activists got word that Reeves Young Construction might be dropping

4033
03:53:28,880 --> 03:53:32,680
Speaker 1: out of the project. This would obviously be a big,

4034
03:53:32,760 --> 03:53:36,320
Speaker 1: big win and an indication of the possible effectiveness of

4035
03:53:36,480 --> 03:53:40,960
Speaker 1: the shack method combined with sabotage and the forest encampment tactics.

4036
03:53:42,240 --> 03:53:45,200
Speaker 1: At a stakeholders meeting for the Copsity of project the

4037
03:53:45,320 --> 03:53:48,760
Speaker 1: next day, it was publicly confirmed that Reeves Young will

4038
03:53:48,840 --> 03:53:52,800
Speaker 1: not continue work on the new police training center. In

4039
03:53:52,920 --> 03:53:56,880
Speaker 1: the public statement addressing Reeves Young's lack of future involvement,

4040
03:53:57,360 --> 03:54:00,240
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police Foundation tried to frame the situation as

4041
03:54:00,360 --> 03:54:04,360
Speaker 1: Reeves Young simply have quote finished their role in the project.

4042
03:54:05,120 --> 03:54:08,120
Speaker 1: This is a laughable deception, as Reeves Young is one

4043
03:54:08,160 --> 03:54:11,320
Speaker 1: of Atlanta's major construction firms and has even built massive

4044
03:54:11,400 --> 03:54:15,320
Speaker 1: quote unquote public safety facilities in the past. They do

4045
03:54:15,440 --> 03:54:19,280
Speaker 1: not merely do preliminary sub contracting survey work. They work

4046
03:54:19,320 --> 03:54:22,520
Speaker 1: on projects from start to finish, taking lead contracting roles.

4047
03:54:23,280 --> 03:54:26,320
Speaker 1: It was speculated that Reeves Young itself may have been

4048
03:54:26,400 --> 03:54:29,600
Speaker 1: the main subcontractor hired to do complete construction of Cops

4049
03:54:29,640 --> 03:54:32,960
Speaker 1: City by brass Field and Gory, who have more established

4050
03:54:33,040 --> 03:54:36,840
Speaker 1: ties to the Atlanta Police Foundation. Quoting from the Stop

4051
03:54:36,960 --> 03:54:40,680
Speaker 1: for Reeves Young website quote, the Atlanta Police Foundation would

4052
03:54:40,680 --> 03:54:43,200
Speaker 1: have us believe that Reeves Young was contracted to do

4053
03:54:43,360 --> 03:54:47,600
Speaker 1: nothing more than hire a bulldozer and walk alongside long

4054
03:54:47,680 --> 03:54:51,000
Speaker 1: engineering work crews as they planted a few surveying stakes

4055
03:54:51,080 --> 03:54:54,760
Speaker 1: and did some soil testing. Police and their corporate backers

4056
03:54:54,960 --> 03:54:57,160
Speaker 1: don't want to let it be known that a focused

4057
03:54:57,200 --> 03:55:00,400
Speaker 1: group of activists have delivered a devastating blow to the

4058
03:55:00,520 --> 03:55:04,320
Speaker 1: Cops City construction, while the Atlanta Police Foundation tries to

4059
03:55:04,400 --> 03:55:07,840
Speaker 1: say face, we are celebrating a major victory pressuring a

4060
03:55:07,960 --> 03:55:11,440
Speaker 1: main contractor out of the project. We are pleased that

4061
03:55:11,520 --> 03:55:13,920
Speaker 1: the movement has built up so much momentum and that

4062
03:55:14,000 --> 03:55:17,280
Speaker 1: the Cops City development continues to face setbacks because of

4063
03:55:17,320 --> 03:55:21,520
Speaker 1: the intelligent actions of regular people. However, the struggle continues.

4064
03:55:21,960 --> 03:55:25,560
Speaker 1: Brass Field and Gory, another large general contractor, remains with

4065
03:55:25,800 --> 03:55:30,600
Speaker 1: the project. A Georgia Open records request from April confirmed

4066
03:55:30,720 --> 03:55:33,360
Speaker 1: via Paper Trail that the Atlanta Police Foundation has been

4067
03:55:33,400 --> 03:55:36,280
Speaker 1: working on the Cop City project with brass Field and Gory,

4068
03:55:36,760 --> 03:55:39,720
Speaker 1: another major general contractor in the Southeast region of the

4069
03:55:39,840 --> 03:55:43,320
Speaker 1: United States. Brass Field and Gory is an LLC and

4070
03:55:43,400 --> 03:55:47,680
Speaker 1: a multibillion dollar general contractor, ranked as a top contractor

4071
03:55:47,760 --> 03:55:52,080
Speaker 1: in the Southeast by Engineering News Record. Based on recent

4072
03:55:52,160 --> 03:55:55,360
Speaker 1: Atlanta Police Foundation emails required through public records, we can

4073
03:55:55,400 --> 03:55:58,000
Speaker 1: now assume that brass Field and Gory act as the

4074
03:55:58,120 --> 03:56:02,560
Speaker 1: soul contractor for Cops Said, quoting again from the Stop

4075
03:56:02,600 --> 03:56:06,200
Speaker 1: Reeves Young website quote, Brassfield and Gory are dependent on

4076
03:56:06,320 --> 03:56:10,360
Speaker 1: subcontractors to complete their projects. Now they must hire a

4077
03:56:10,440 --> 03:56:13,320
Speaker 1: new entire set of subcontractors in order to build a

4078
03:56:13,360 --> 03:56:16,440
Speaker 1: Cops City. We believe it is in their best interests

4079
03:56:16,560 --> 03:56:18,520
Speaker 1: for brass Field and Gory to follow the lead of

4080
03:56:18,640 --> 03:56:22,040
Speaker 1: Reeves Young and drop Atlanta Police Foundation as a client,

4081
03:56:22,680 --> 03:56:25,680
Speaker 1: rather than remaining complicit in the destruction of the forest.

4082
03:56:26,400 --> 03:56:28,280
Speaker 1: It is up to all of us to make that

4083
03:56:28,480 --> 03:56:31,640
Speaker 1: clear to them. We can pressure brass Field and Gory

4084
03:56:31,760 --> 03:56:35,000
Speaker 1: out of Cops City by complicating their ability to do business.

4085
03:56:35,720 --> 03:56:37,520
Speaker 1: This does not have to be limited to the Cops

4086
03:56:37,560 --> 03:56:41,200
Speaker 1: City project. Their various construction projects and third party service

4087
03:56:41,240 --> 03:56:44,840
Speaker 1: providers are numerous. If brass Field and Gory begin to

4088
03:56:44,920 --> 03:56:47,680
Speaker 1: feel like they must choose between all of their contracts

4089
03:56:48,120 --> 03:56:51,080
Speaker 1: and their Cops City contract. We are confident that they

4090
03:56:51,120 --> 03:56:54,920
Speaker 1: will choose the former. By working to convince the subcontractors,

4091
03:56:55,080 --> 03:56:59,960
Speaker 1: consulting firms, surveyors, architects, etcetera around the country that brass

4092
03:57:00,040 --> 03:57:02,520
Speaker 1: Field and Gory are not a good business investment, we

4093
03:57:02,600 --> 03:57:04,640
Speaker 1: can make it easier for the construction company to do

4094
03:57:04,720 --> 03:57:07,720
Speaker 1: the right thing and dump the Atlanta Police Foundation for good.

4095
03:57:09,200 --> 03:57:12,000
Speaker 1: This has been an incredible period of momentum and research,

4096
03:57:12,120 --> 03:57:15,000
Speaker 1: but nothing is over yet. Now that we have made

4097
03:57:15,040 --> 03:57:18,120
Speaker 1: a decisive victory, it is important to remain more focused

4098
03:57:18,160 --> 03:57:20,520
Speaker 1: than ever. In the coming weeks and months, we will

4099
03:57:20,560 --> 03:57:23,400
Speaker 1: need to continue pressuring all of the contractors associated with

4100
03:57:23,440 --> 03:57:26,640
Speaker 1: the project to create economic consentives for them to simply

4101
03:57:26,840 --> 03:57:30,720
Speaker 1: move their time and resources to other endeavors. The Stop

4102
03:57:30,840 --> 03:57:33,480
Speaker 1: Reeves Young website will continue to serve as an educational

4103
03:57:33,600 --> 03:57:37,920
Speaker 1: hub for this ongoing campaign. End quote. On top of

4104
03:57:38,040 --> 03:57:40,600
Speaker 1: confirming that Reeves Young was dropping out of the project,

4105
03:57:41,000 --> 03:57:44,120
Speaker 1: a few other interesting pieces of information came out at

4106
03:57:44,160 --> 03:57:49,800
Speaker 1: the recent stakeholders meeting held on April. Allegedly, there will

4107
03:57:49,840 --> 03:57:54,720
Speaker 1: be a bid for the next contractors or subcontractors UH

4108
03:57:54,800 --> 03:57:57,640
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks, and that will be publicly announced.

4109
03:57:58,160 --> 03:58:00,400
Speaker 1: It was also announced during the meeting that the cops

4110
03:58:00,400 --> 03:58:05,640
Speaker 1: city planners will keep construction timelines secret and may surround

4111
03:58:05,680 --> 03:58:09,280
Speaker 1: the construction site and future facility with an unwanted fence.

4112
03:58:09,760 --> 03:58:14,520
Speaker 1: In response to the quote law breaking protesters, Atlanta Assistant

4113
03:58:14,560 --> 03:58:18,560
Speaker 1: Police Chief and Site Security Chief Darren sheer Bomb said quote,

4114
03:58:18,960 --> 03:58:21,480
Speaker 1: we are working with decav County to address any criminal

4115
03:58:21,520 --> 03:58:25,720
Speaker 1: acts related to trespassing and vandalism unquote. He also stated

4116
03:58:25,760 --> 03:58:29,160
Speaker 1: that police were also concerned with protesters targeting those who

4117
03:58:29,280 --> 03:58:32,960
Speaker 1: work on the project at other locations. Here's an interesting

4118
03:58:33,040 --> 03:58:35,760
Speaker 1: note from our force defender pals on how the Atlanta

4119
03:58:35,760 --> 03:58:39,600
Speaker 1: Police Department function and are allowed to operate while inside

4120
03:58:39,640 --> 03:58:43,200
Speaker 1: the old Atlanta prison farm and Entrenchment Creek Park. This

4121
03:58:43,400 --> 03:58:48,040
Speaker 1: is something that's true police departments in Channel. But as

4122
03:58:48,120 --> 03:58:54,760
Speaker 1: soon as the copies out of streets and things like that,

4123
03:58:55,000 --> 03:58:59,920
Speaker 1: that cop is uncomfortable. And like, cops here are carrying

4124
03:59:00,040 --> 03:59:03,880
Speaker 1: in twenty pounds of gear on them at all times,

4125
03:59:04,360 --> 03:59:07,120
Speaker 1: and not only are they hearing that much gear, but

4126
03:59:08,400 --> 03:59:11,800
Speaker 1: they spend most all day sitting running around and sitting

4127
03:59:11,800 --> 03:59:15,920
Speaker 1: in a car, and like you know, that cop not

4128
03:59:16,080 --> 03:59:20,360
Speaker 1: only doesn't want to chase you through the woods, but

4129
03:59:20,440 --> 03:59:24,560
Speaker 1: they have so probably aren't capable of it. And aside

4130
03:59:24,680 --> 03:59:29,560
Speaker 1: from the hobbyists, like you know, their infrastructure issues then

4131
03:59:29,600 --> 03:59:31,840
Speaker 1: being away from their cars, not being on the streets

4132
03:59:31,880 --> 03:59:34,280
Speaker 1: having all of their gear. We're also not in the

4133
03:59:34,440 --> 03:59:37,760
Speaker 1: City of Atlanta in this forest. We're an unincorporated the

4134
03:59:37,800 --> 03:59:41,240
Speaker 1: Cab County, which means Atlanta Police Department doesn't have legal

4135
03:59:41,400 --> 03:59:45,960
Speaker 1: jurisdiction as police here. They only have legal jurisdiction as

4136
03:59:46,120 --> 03:59:49,280
Speaker 1: agents of the City of Atlanta because the City of

4137
03:59:49,280 --> 03:59:52,280
Speaker 1: Atlanta owns this property which is outside of the city.

4138
03:59:52,680 --> 03:59:55,720
Speaker 1: So in any time when they're conducting and arrest they

4139
03:59:55,800 --> 03:59:59,040
Speaker 1: have to have the Cab County Police Department officers present

4140
03:59:59,120 --> 04:00:02,320
Speaker 1: with them. There. There can be an Atlanta Police Department

4141
04:00:02,360 --> 04:00:05,400
Speaker 1: and has been major like one of their huge like

4142
04:00:05,600 --> 04:00:08,960
Speaker 1: high ranks who has no legal authority here except to

4143
04:00:09,040 --> 04:00:14,520
Speaker 1: represent the city. And that relationship is kind of like

4144
04:00:14,760 --> 04:00:17,920
Speaker 1: tenuous at best. They hate each pals. They hate each

4145
04:00:17,920 --> 04:00:21,080
Speaker 1: other and you know, so if you're if you're headed

4146
04:00:21,120 --> 04:00:24,360
Speaker 1: in the town, like bear in minds, that is a

4147
04:00:24,800 --> 04:00:28,000
Speaker 1: huge place to drive a wedge because they fucking hate

4148
04:00:28,000 --> 04:00:31,520
Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, I know, there's like, um, there's like

4149
04:00:31,800 --> 04:00:34,920
Speaker 1: one thing one time where like a Lamp police officers

4150
04:00:34,960 --> 04:00:38,960
Speaker 1: were inside the forest um with like a specific goal

4151
04:00:39,040 --> 04:00:42,080
Speaker 1: in mind in the Cab County Police cruisers. Not only

4152
04:00:42,120 --> 04:00:44,840
Speaker 1: did the Cab police not want to gather cruisers and

4153
04:00:44,960 --> 04:00:47,480
Speaker 1: go into the forest because they have they didn't care,

4154
04:00:47,880 --> 04:00:52,880
Speaker 1: they didn't want to do this. So the Atlanta Police, Uh,

4155
04:00:53,240 --> 04:00:57,840
Speaker 1: We're screaming into their radio saying, get this person. They're

4156
04:00:57,880 --> 04:00:59,720
Speaker 1: walking out of the forest. Get this person they're walking

4157
04:00:59,760 --> 04:01:02,200
Speaker 1: out there. It would just be like five or ten

4158
04:01:02,280 --> 04:01:05,400
Speaker 1: minutes before the Cab Police like cruisers to just roll

4159
04:01:05,880 --> 04:01:09,320
Speaker 1: down the road and like you know, they're like people

4160
04:01:09,320 --> 04:01:12,640
Speaker 1: who like ran into the woods and like ran from

4161
04:01:12,680 --> 04:01:15,680
Speaker 1: the riche Cat police. Like like, I'm not going in

4162
04:01:15,800 --> 04:01:18,400
Speaker 1: this word these words, and I'm also not calling to

4163
04:01:18,600 --> 04:01:22,120
Speaker 1: let the Lamp police to let them know that this

4164
04:01:22,280 --> 04:01:25,400
Speaker 1: person just ran from me into the woods, because then

4165
04:01:25,440 --> 04:01:29,560
Speaker 1: they'll have to actually go in after them. Also, during

4166
04:01:29,600 --> 04:01:33,920
Speaker 1: the April stakeholder meeting, Security Chief shear Bomb announced that

4167
04:01:34,040 --> 04:01:37,320
Speaker 1: the FBI and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation agreed to

4168
04:01:37,360 --> 04:01:40,560
Speaker 1: an assistance request in mid April from Atlanta Police Chief

4169
04:01:40,720 --> 04:01:44,600
Speaker 1: Rodney Bryant and will be assigned to the site while

4170
04:01:44,600 --> 04:01:48,560
Speaker 1: attempting to work with neighborhood watch groups. He noted that quote,

4171
04:01:48,800 --> 04:01:51,280
Speaker 1: we look forward to working with those agencies to ensure

4172
04:01:51,320 --> 04:01:53,360
Speaker 1: that this is a safe project that is occurring here

4173
04:01:53,720 --> 04:01:56,400
Speaker 1: and addressing any criminal acts that may be occurring on

4174
04:01:56,560 --> 04:01:59,760
Speaker 1: site to try to stop the project from proceeding unquote.

4175
04:02:00,840 --> 04:02:04,560
Speaker 1: The co chair of the Stakeholder Advisory Committee, Sharon Williams,

4176
04:02:04,840 --> 04:02:09,920
Speaker 1: invoked the term echo terrorism as relating to the forced defense,

4177
04:02:10,560 --> 04:02:12,880
Speaker 1: marking the first time that word has been used by

4178
04:02:12,880 --> 04:02:16,160
Speaker 1: the government officials to refer to this batch of protests.

4179
04:02:16,960 --> 04:02:20,839
Speaker 1: She also thanked the cop City planners for quote transparency

4180
04:02:21,320 --> 04:02:25,320
Speaker 1: in explaining why they cannot be transparent on the construction timeline.

4181
04:02:25,920 --> 04:02:28,640
Speaker 1: Emails between the Atlanta Police Foundation and the City of Atlanta,

4182
04:02:29,000 --> 04:02:33,040
Speaker 1: obtained via public records requests do give a possible look

4183
04:02:33,120 --> 04:02:37,640
Speaker 1: into the future of the development. In a January two email,

4184
04:02:37,680 --> 04:02:41,400
Speaker 1: Police Foundation representative Allen Williams said that we quote plan

4185
04:02:41,560 --> 04:02:46,560
Speaker 1: on enabling work possibly in the May and June time frame.

4186
04:02:47,000 --> 04:02:51,040
Speaker 1: Our project will last until the last quarter, and our

4187
04:02:51,160 --> 04:02:54,760
Speaker 1: contractors are currently working on an overall site logistics and

4188
04:02:54,840 --> 04:03:00,120
Speaker 1: safety plan unquote. Although at the time their contractors all

4189
04:03:00,160 --> 04:03:03,280
Speaker 1: included Reeves Young so there's no telling how accurate that

4190
04:03:03,400 --> 04:03:08,600
Speaker 1: timeline is. Now. Other emails detailed plans for Homeland Security

4191
04:03:08,680 --> 04:03:13,240
Speaker 1: to obtain ring camera subscriptions to monitor quote criminal activity

4192
04:03:13,320 --> 04:03:17,280
Speaker 1: at the New Academy footprint unquote. In general, when involved

4193
04:03:17,320 --> 04:03:20,560
Speaker 1: in any level of protest, no matter of the alleged legality,

4194
04:03:21,120 --> 04:03:25,520
Speaker 1: security culture considerations should always be among people's top priorities,

4195
04:03:26,000 --> 04:03:28,600
Speaker 1: especially with more eyes being directed to the defend the

4196
04:03:28,640 --> 04:03:33,320
Speaker 1: Atlanta Forced Project. Each person should be responsible for themselves,

4197
04:03:33,400 --> 04:03:36,680
Speaker 1: and I think that that type of action you're interested

4198
04:03:36,720 --> 04:03:41,280
Speaker 1: in taking should severely inform the type of personal security

4199
04:03:41,320 --> 04:03:46,760
Speaker 1: precautions that that you're taking. Um. I think that's that's

4200
04:03:46,800 --> 04:03:51,680
Speaker 1: been a recurring theme as the movement builds. There are

4201
04:03:51,760 --> 04:03:55,560
Speaker 1: folks that come in movement not having heard the term

4202
04:03:55,640 --> 04:03:59,400
Speaker 1: security culture or whatever you want to follow, and so

4203
04:03:59,680 --> 04:04:02,680
Speaker 1: that be really jarring for folks that are just first

4204
04:04:02,840 --> 04:04:06,280
Speaker 1: trying to get involved, But people pick it up surprisingly

4205
04:04:06,400 --> 04:04:10,280
Speaker 1: quick once you have built as a community like norms

4206
04:04:10,560 --> 04:04:14,960
Speaker 1: and customs around is they say phones on our phones

4207
04:04:15,000 --> 04:04:18,880
Speaker 1: off meeting? Are we talking about this on signal? Is

4208
04:04:18,920 --> 04:04:21,320
Speaker 1: the call for this action going out on social media?

4209
04:04:21,400 --> 04:04:24,600
Speaker 1: Are we just sharing this amongst friends? Where that hadn't

4210
04:04:25,000 --> 04:04:27,600
Speaker 1: really been a thing, and where frankly, a lot of

4211
04:04:27,760 --> 04:04:31,880
Speaker 1: people face significant repression here in Atlanta during the uprisings

4212
04:04:32,360 --> 04:04:36,480
Speaker 1: because of security culture decisions that were made. I think

4213
04:04:36,560 --> 04:04:42,280
Speaker 1: that a security culture is being built here that where

4214
04:04:42,320 --> 04:04:46,640
Speaker 1: it didn't really exist before, or at least wasn't widespread before.

4215
04:04:47,120 --> 04:04:52,320
Speaker 1: He is going to survive long past this movement, I think.

4216
04:04:53,280 --> 04:04:56,480
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest aspects of these things

4217
04:04:56,760 --> 04:05:01,240
Speaker 1: is like the social aspects of it, and like like

4218
04:05:01,480 --> 04:05:06,360
Speaker 1: the generalizing of the norm of if someone answers you

4219
04:05:06,520 --> 04:05:12,360
Speaker 1: vaguely and seems uninterested in to meet and continuing the conversation,

4220
04:05:13,280 --> 04:05:16,920
Speaker 1: she's understanding that they have your best interests in heart

4221
04:05:17,040 --> 04:05:21,760
Speaker 1: when they don't want you to know, And like, quite frankly,

4222
04:05:21,840 --> 04:05:25,920
Speaker 1: you just can't accidentally share information you don't have. And

4223
04:05:26,080 --> 04:05:30,920
Speaker 1: so like, you know, when we sit here in these

4224
04:05:31,040 --> 04:05:34,960
Speaker 1: woods and people say, you know, like you say, like,

4225
04:05:35,480 --> 04:05:38,960
Speaker 1: so you know you're where have you been? Blah blah blah,

4226
04:05:38,960 --> 04:05:41,760
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, oh, you know our places or

4227
04:05:41,840 --> 04:05:45,200
Speaker 1: something like that. I just don't ask questions. And I

4228
04:05:45,360 --> 04:05:48,600
Speaker 1: understand that I don't just not only do I not

4229
04:05:48,800 --> 04:05:50,920
Speaker 1: need to know, but I probably don't want to know.

4230
04:05:51,880 --> 04:05:54,920
Speaker 1: And like you know, when it comes to like more

4231
04:05:55,320 --> 04:06:02,040
Speaker 1: like material technical things, those are important, but like the

4232
04:06:02,240 --> 04:06:07,840
Speaker 1: social aspects of security culture are so so much more

4233
04:06:08,080 --> 04:06:15,200
Speaker 1: important than the technical aspects. It's like I don't know

4234
04:06:15,440 --> 04:06:19,440
Speaker 1: as everybody talks about security culture as like take your

4235
04:06:19,480 --> 04:06:24,480
Speaker 1: phone out of the room, but like, you know, if

4236
04:06:24,520 --> 04:06:26,920
Speaker 1: you take the phone out of the room and talk

4237
04:06:27,000 --> 04:06:31,400
Speaker 1: about doing crazy ship with complete strangers, you don't you

4238
04:06:31,520 --> 04:06:34,320
Speaker 1: know and have a reason to trust them, And like

4239
04:06:35,840 --> 04:06:39,440
Speaker 1: coming here to Atlanta, like if you want to do

4240
04:06:39,680 --> 04:06:45,840
Speaker 1: crazy shit, don't you know if you want to do

4241
04:06:46,080 --> 04:06:50,120
Speaker 1: if you're coming to Atlanta, let me rephrase that you're

4242
04:06:50,240 --> 04:06:51,840
Speaker 1: If you're coming to Atlanta and you want to do

4243
04:06:51,920 --> 04:06:56,240
Speaker 1: crazy ship, like you to think about like how to

4244
04:06:56,400 --> 04:07:00,600
Speaker 1: do that in a safe way or in safely possible,

4245
04:07:00,800 --> 04:07:07,680
Speaker 1: you know, don't don't come to us and be like, hey,

4246
04:07:08,520 --> 04:07:11,040
Speaker 1: I haven't met you before, but like do you want

4247
04:07:11,080 --> 04:07:14,560
Speaker 1: to go do some federal felonies? Because no, I don't,

4248
04:07:14,880 --> 04:07:16,800
Speaker 1: And I don't want to know that you're doing that either,

4249
04:07:17,960 --> 04:07:23,240
Speaker 1: Like we have do you want to do crazy ship?

4250
04:07:23,800 --> 04:07:26,720
Speaker 1: That's cool, just like I don't want to know you

4251
04:07:26,920 --> 04:07:30,120
Speaker 1: did it, And like if you're like coming here with

4252
04:07:30,200 --> 04:07:35,040
Speaker 1: the intention of creating like with the intention of like

4253
04:07:35,520 --> 04:07:39,280
Speaker 1: doing ship because it's like cool and fun. If you're

4254
04:07:39,360 --> 04:07:42,960
Speaker 1: coming here with the intention of, like, I want to

4255
04:07:43,040 --> 04:07:47,800
Speaker 1: gain social capital because I did crazy things, Like maybe

4256
04:07:47,800 --> 04:07:53,360
Speaker 1: you rethink that like if you if you want to

4257
04:07:53,480 --> 04:07:56,680
Speaker 1: do crazy ship and you do want to come here,

4258
04:07:57,280 --> 04:07:59,960
Speaker 1: find your closest friends playing a road trip and don't

4259
04:08:00,080 --> 04:08:05,200
Speaker 1: help anyone. In a recent interview, Atlanta Police Foundation President

4260
04:08:05,360 --> 04:08:09,080
Speaker 1: and CEO Dave Wilkinson estimates that defend the forest quote

4261
04:08:09,120 --> 04:08:12,880
Speaker 1: unquote group members have done hundreds of thousands of dollars

4262
04:08:13,000 --> 04:08:16,480
Speaker 1: of damage to utility equipment and has brought up plans

4263
04:08:16,520 --> 04:08:18,720
Speaker 1: to add defense around the entirety of the site as

4264
04:08:18,840 --> 04:08:22,880
Speaker 1: construction begins, saying, and anyone on the site will be arrested,

4265
04:08:22,960 --> 04:08:25,800
Speaker 1: and as we move forward, the enforcement will become stricter

4266
04:08:25,960 --> 04:08:30,480
Speaker 1: and stricter unquote. Also stated in an interview is that quote.

4267
04:08:30,800 --> 04:08:34,280
Speaker 1: The Police Foundation also hopes to build separate museums on

4268
04:08:34,440 --> 04:08:38,400
Speaker 1: site dedicated to police officers and the labor prison that

4269
04:08:38,520 --> 04:08:43,160
Speaker 1: was once located there. So that's that's what the kids

4270
04:08:43,240 --> 04:08:48,240
Speaker 1: call maskoff moment of building a dedicated museum two cops

4271
04:08:48,520 --> 04:08:53,640
Speaker 1: and the labor prison a k A. Slave labor prison. Anyway,

4272
04:08:55,040 --> 04:08:58,160
Speaker 1: the first phase of the project had the initial ninety

4273
04:08:58,200 --> 04:09:01,000
Speaker 1: million price tag attached, with expair is being forced to

4274
04:09:01,080 --> 04:09:03,880
Speaker 1: pay thirty million dollars of that, and it's still unclear

4275
04:09:04,000 --> 04:09:06,360
Speaker 1: what the final cost of the facility is slated to be,

4276
04:09:06,920 --> 04:09:09,720
Speaker 1: or what the estimated operating costs are, or really how

4277
04:09:09,800 --> 04:09:13,960
Speaker 1: many phases of construction they really plan on doing. The

4278
04:09:14,000 --> 04:09:16,200
Speaker 1: past few weeks, the site of Cops in the Woods

4279
04:09:16,280 --> 04:09:20,720
Speaker 1: has become a more and more common occurrence, whether to

4280
04:09:20,800 --> 04:09:25,920
Speaker 1: do scouting or just apparently detonating explosives for funzies at

4281
04:09:25,960 --> 04:09:28,320
Speaker 1: their current makeshift shooting range, like they did a few

4282
04:09:28,360 --> 04:09:31,360
Speaker 1: days ago. One morning when I was there, I woke

4283
04:09:31,440 --> 04:09:34,360
Speaker 1: up to people yelling Cops in the Woods, which by

4284
04:09:34,400 --> 04:09:37,440
Speaker 1: the way, is a very effective substitute for caffeine in

4285
04:09:37,640 --> 04:09:40,560
Speaker 1: terms of making you very awake and alert quite early

4286
04:09:40,600 --> 04:09:43,480
Speaker 1: in the morning. Um. And then while running through the forest,

4287
04:09:43,600 --> 04:09:46,280
Speaker 1: I saw a beautiful deer and a hopping rabbit. So

4288
04:09:47,200 --> 04:09:52,760
Speaker 1: nice clash of of feelings and sensations there. In terms

4289
04:09:52,840 --> 04:09:56,920
Speaker 1: of closing sentiments based on conversations and observations I had

4290
04:09:57,080 --> 04:10:00,720
Speaker 1: from my brief time in the woods, it's this play

4291
04:10:00,800 --> 04:10:05,200
Speaker 1: to your strengths, don't play by the enemy's rules, utilize

4292
04:10:05,240 --> 04:10:09,320
Speaker 1: the intersection of urban city based tactics and resources, while

4293
04:10:09,400 --> 04:10:14,280
Speaker 1: taking inspiration from classic forest based eco defense. Attacking from

4294
04:10:14,280 --> 04:10:16,400
Speaker 1: the cover of the woods and ensuring that the terrain

4295
04:10:16,600 --> 04:10:20,080
Speaker 1: is as unwelcoming as possible to vehicular machinery can help

4296
04:10:20,160 --> 04:10:24,200
Speaker 1: by time for rapid response popular mobilization from people living

4297
04:10:24,240 --> 04:10:31,000
Speaker 1: in the city, if and when that time comes, I'll

4298
04:10:31,040 --> 04:10:33,800
Speaker 1: be careful coming down a key road. They throwing bottles

4299
04:10:33,840 --> 04:10:36,960
Speaker 1: at the police, and the bottles at smoke ball, so

4300
04:10:37,160 --> 04:10:40,560
Speaker 1: be careful. They in the woods um throwing at the

4301
04:10:40,760 --> 04:10:46,680
Speaker 1: police cars and stuff like that, so appreciate it. Yeah,

4302
04:10:46,680 --> 04:10:50,880
Speaker 1: And despite the defensive nature of defending the forest, there

4303
04:10:51,000 --> 04:10:53,480
Speaker 1: still is a large amount of making sure that as

4304
04:10:53,560 --> 04:10:56,600
Speaker 1: often as possible you can do the prep work to

4305
04:10:56,720 --> 04:11:00,080
Speaker 1: set the terms of engagement so that they're fighting on

4306
04:11:00,280 --> 04:11:04,040
Speaker 1: your terms. You're not always complying to theirs, which is

4307
04:11:04,360 --> 04:11:07,280
Speaker 1: can be useful for defensive stuff. Obviously, the whole aspect

4308
04:11:07,840 --> 04:11:11,760
Speaker 1: of defending a forest like this that you I think

4309
04:11:14,240 --> 04:11:17,720
Speaker 1: the offenders can have this almost like spectral quality of

4310
04:11:17,880 --> 04:11:23,800
Speaker 1: like cops don't know where people are, what they've built,

4311
04:11:23,960 --> 04:11:26,840
Speaker 1: what's in the forest, what's in the woods, and it's

4312
04:11:26,880 --> 04:11:30,280
Speaker 1: like spooky, like you like you don't know who's who's

4313
04:11:30,320 --> 04:11:32,800
Speaker 1: up in a treehouse, you don't know who's behind what's tree,

4314
04:11:33,120 --> 04:11:35,440
Speaker 1: you don't know what things are in the woods, And

4315
04:11:35,560 --> 04:11:38,480
Speaker 1: that spectral quality of the forest offense is a really

4316
04:11:38,960 --> 04:11:42,520
Speaker 1: interesting aspect of it that you don't see. And you

4317
04:11:42,520 --> 04:11:44,440
Speaker 1: don't see that. And then like pipeline protests as much,

4318
04:11:44,440 --> 04:11:46,840
Speaker 1: you don't really see that for like Protestant a city, um,

4319
04:11:46,920 --> 04:11:48,520
Speaker 1: because the city very much as like a more of

4320
04:11:48,560 --> 04:11:51,200
Speaker 1: like a cops terrain, UM. So I really do like

4321
04:11:51,320 --> 04:11:54,280
Speaker 1: that aspect of like cops are kind of scared to

4322
04:11:54,320 --> 04:11:59,880
Speaker 1: go in the woods because they're spooky. They have open

4323
04:12:00,000 --> 04:12:04,320
Speaker 1: They testified like in court testimony that said that when

4324
04:12:04,400 --> 04:12:08,240
Speaker 1: this forest defender was arrested, the police officer that gave

4325
04:12:08,400 --> 04:12:14,680
Speaker 1: his statement to the judge was shaking, physically shaking because

4326
04:12:14,720 --> 04:12:16,840
Speaker 1: he was so afraid from being yelled at, Like that

4327
04:12:16,960 --> 04:12:18,880
Speaker 1: was all that had happened, is a bunch of protesters

4328
04:12:18,960 --> 04:12:21,480
Speaker 1: were yelling at them and he was shaking. The police

4329
04:12:21,480 --> 04:12:24,760
Speaker 1: are really dependent on their infrastructure. They are dependent on

4330
04:12:24,920 --> 04:12:27,000
Speaker 1: all of that kid that they carry around. They are

4331
04:12:27,160 --> 04:12:29,960
Speaker 1: not mobile. They are meant to be attached to that

4332
04:12:30,080 --> 04:12:33,520
Speaker 1: squad car, and every further step they take away from that,

4333
04:12:34,240 --> 04:12:37,440
Speaker 1: they are more and more uncomfortable. And when they look

4334
04:12:37,520 --> 04:12:39,040
Speaker 1: around they realized they were in the middle of the

4335
04:12:39,120 --> 04:12:43,560
Speaker 1: fucking woods. That's terrifying for them and that needs to

4336
04:12:43,640 --> 04:12:46,760
Speaker 1: be like taking advantage of. And it is wo'ds that

4337
04:12:47,240 --> 04:12:50,160
Speaker 1: like they that their drones and their police helicopters have

4338
04:12:50,400 --> 04:12:53,440
Speaker 1: problem even with their thermal tracking of seeing through the

4339
04:12:53,520 --> 04:12:56,920
Speaker 1: canopy woods that like, and I want to say, like,

4340
04:12:57,480 --> 04:13:00,160
Speaker 1: it was really funny to me that in that it

4341
04:13:00,320 --> 04:13:03,240
Speaker 1: was said bad the purposes were screaming, we know where

4342
04:13:03,280 --> 04:13:06,680
Speaker 1: you live, we know where you live. We're coming, We're coming,

4343
04:13:07,880 --> 04:13:10,440
Speaker 1: which is the whole, the whole post thing um, because

4344
04:13:10,480 --> 04:13:12,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean in terms of in terms of

4345
04:13:12,280 --> 04:13:14,480
Speaker 1: thermal stuff. I brought a thermal camera of mine here,

4346
04:13:14,880 --> 04:13:16,560
Speaker 1: and the woods are very hard to see through With

4347
04:13:16,600 --> 04:13:18,840
Speaker 1: my thermal camera. I cannot see more than twenty ft away.

4348
04:13:18,880 --> 04:13:21,360
Speaker 1: I've I've tested it on people. It's that's the super

4349
04:13:21,440 --> 04:13:25,480
Speaker 1: interesting aspect. And yeah, like it's the whole like Fern Gully,

4350
04:13:25,520 --> 04:13:29,200
Speaker 1: Princess Princess Mononoke thing of like when people come out

4351
04:13:29,200 --> 04:13:32,880
Speaker 1: of the woods wearing ski basks Like that's freaking like

4352
04:13:33,240 --> 04:13:35,800
Speaker 1: it's like we are you, Like you can be the

4353
04:13:35,920 --> 04:13:38,040
Speaker 1: thing that goes boo in the night like that, Actually

4354
04:13:38,240 --> 04:13:41,240
Speaker 1: that is you, um, and that's something that should be

4355
04:13:41,320 --> 04:13:44,600
Speaker 1: taken advantage of when there's people invading the forest and

4356
04:13:44,720 --> 04:13:50,600
Speaker 1: trying to destroy it. I think this is really for

4357
04:13:50,720 --> 04:13:57,480
Speaker 1: a lot of us, like us have been like the

4358
04:13:57,600 --> 04:14:00,640
Speaker 1: dark and the night and the woods as this verything.

4359
04:14:02,000 --> 04:14:05,760
Speaker 1: This is where I feel the most safe. This is

4360
04:14:07,160 --> 04:14:10,200
Speaker 1: if you give me a bunch of camel and like

4361
04:14:10,360 --> 04:14:14,960
Speaker 1: send me off into the woods, There's nowhere I'm going

4362
04:14:15,120 --> 04:14:19,920
Speaker 1: to feel more safe and more capable both of safety

4363
04:14:20,120 --> 04:14:23,720
Speaker 1: and attack. When I'm out here, I feel like I

4364
04:14:23,840 --> 04:14:26,960
Speaker 1: can do anything. You give me a bunch of woods,

4365
04:14:27,000 --> 04:14:32,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of hills, Like, there's so much we can

4366
04:14:32,240 --> 04:14:37,200
Speaker 1: do because we're not in this position of you know,

4367
04:14:37,640 --> 04:14:42,680
Speaker 1: entering hostile territory to you know, do things. This is

4368
04:14:43,760 --> 04:14:47,520
Speaker 1: territory that we control, and this is territory that we

4369
04:14:47,760 --> 04:14:51,320
Speaker 1: are using to fight back. And we're weaponizing not just

4370
04:14:52,280 --> 04:14:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, the cops fear, but we're weaponizing the terrain itself.

4371
04:14:57,280 --> 04:15:01,240
Speaker 1: Were weaponizing the trees, were weaponized in the hills. We're

4372
04:15:01,280 --> 04:15:06,240
Speaker 1: recognizing the ruins, and we're recognizing everything here has like

4373
04:15:09,080 --> 04:15:13,320
Speaker 1: literally a thing to use to attack the state. If

4374
04:15:13,360 --> 04:15:16,480
Speaker 1: you give me a ridgeline, I can hide from the

4375
04:15:16,560 --> 04:15:20,560
Speaker 1: cops better than any fucking you know, high tech thermal

4376
04:15:20,640 --> 04:15:23,280
Speaker 1: scattering tilly suit is ever gonna give me. You know,

4377
04:15:24,440 --> 04:15:27,280
Speaker 1: out here, you don't need a bunch of fancy ship

4378
04:15:27,560 --> 04:15:30,920
Speaker 1: to like engage in conflict with the state. You don't

4379
04:15:31,040 --> 04:15:36,200
Speaker 1: need thermal cameras and all that. You can walk into

4380
04:15:36,240 --> 04:15:41,200
Speaker 1: a military surplus store and buy, you know, for fifty bucks.

4381
04:15:41,240 --> 04:15:45,480
Speaker 1: You can buy everything you need to like do just

4382
04:15:45,680 --> 04:15:50,760
Speaker 1: about whatever you want out here. And that's like, that's

4383
04:15:50,840 --> 04:15:54,040
Speaker 1: like a really important and beautiful thing. Is It's not

4384
04:15:55,320 --> 04:15:59,680
Speaker 1: it's not hard to do what we're doing. You just

4385
04:16:00,000 --> 04:16:05,920
Speaker 1: have to break down the mental barriers and do it. Um. Yeah,

4386
04:16:06,000 --> 04:16:07,920
Speaker 1: we we do our best to protect the trees, and

4387
04:16:07,960 --> 04:16:13,280
Speaker 1: the trees protected us too. And it's it's cool living here.

4388
04:16:13,920 --> 04:16:17,000
Speaker 1: And it's like obviously something ever on most people probably

4389
04:16:17,160 --> 04:16:20,160
Speaker 1: think about is yet how important wild spaces are. But

4390
04:16:20,400 --> 04:16:23,920
Speaker 1: it's cool to really fucking feel it, and it's like like, yeah,

4391
04:16:24,040 --> 04:16:26,720
Speaker 1: this this place is super important because of how it

4392
04:16:26,800 --> 04:16:29,240
Speaker 1: interacts with the ecosystem and how it filters the water

4393
04:16:29,480 --> 04:16:31,040
Speaker 1: and that it's a safe haven for a lot of

4394
04:16:31,280 --> 04:16:34,400
Speaker 1: really beautiful animals and plants. But also this place is

4395
04:16:34,480 --> 04:16:38,360
Speaker 1: important because wild spaces are sucking uncontrollable, and I want

4396
04:16:38,400 --> 04:16:41,560
Speaker 1: to live in an uncontrollable way, and like you need

4397
04:16:41,680 --> 04:16:46,920
Speaker 1: those things, and um, it is it's really cool if

4398
04:16:47,120 --> 04:16:49,480
Speaker 1: this is a wild space, it's also a forest in

4399
04:16:49,600 --> 04:16:54,440
Speaker 1: a city, which is cool. It's fucking weird, Like there's

4400
04:16:54,680 --> 04:16:57,480
Speaker 1: there's city people who come here who are fucking weird

4401
04:16:57,600 --> 04:17:00,800
Speaker 1: and do weird ship and it's sick. Um and like

4402
04:17:01,600 --> 04:17:05,200
Speaker 1: it is an uncontrolled space and like sometimes that means

4403
04:17:05,240 --> 04:17:08,280
Speaker 1: that there's like fucking ship chemicals that are like fucking

4404
04:17:08,360 --> 04:17:11,920
Speaker 1: plants up. But also sometimes that means there's people who

4405
04:17:12,040 --> 04:17:15,360
Speaker 1: like are doing things that are free and doing things

4406
04:17:15,440 --> 04:17:19,200
Speaker 1: they couldn't do in the city. And um, and it

4407
04:17:19,280 --> 04:17:23,120
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if I like it or not. It makes me, Yeah,

4408
04:17:23,120 --> 04:17:25,000
Speaker 1: it makes me happy. They just know that those people

4409
04:17:25,040 --> 04:17:28,400
Speaker 1: can act on their desires. Um. And yeah, it's not

4410
04:17:28,480 --> 04:17:31,320
Speaker 1: always fucking convenient or good. And sometimes I intend to

4411
04:17:31,400 --> 04:17:34,520
Speaker 1: antagonistic relationships with that because it conflicts with my desire.

4412
04:17:34,640 --> 04:17:38,040
Speaker 1: But there's no mediation, and there's there's there's no one

4413
04:17:38,120 --> 04:17:42,320
Speaker 1: getting in between. And yeah, it's just it's really important.

4414
04:17:42,480 --> 04:17:47,560
Speaker 1: And I think like the the slogan that people say

4415
04:17:47,640 --> 04:17:49,600
Speaker 1: of not what is there, not one tree, not one

4416
04:17:49,640 --> 04:17:52,360
Speaker 1: blade of grass, like is like an inspirational thing, but

4417
04:17:52,400 --> 04:17:56,280
Speaker 1: it's also like a strategy, Like it's like a tactical

4418
04:17:56,880 --> 04:18:00,840
Speaker 1: assertion that is important for us. Like, yeah, like this

4419
04:18:01,720 --> 04:18:05,480
Speaker 1: forest and these wild spaces are essential, not just for

4420
04:18:05,680 --> 04:18:09,320
Speaker 1: us to physically stop the police, but like essential to

4421
04:18:09,720 --> 04:18:13,000
Speaker 1: be an anarchist. Like if there are not wild spaces,

4422
04:18:13,080 --> 04:18:17,680
Speaker 1: spaces that they can't put security cameras up here because

4423
04:18:18,320 --> 04:18:21,240
Speaker 1: they there's no electricity and the trees are two dens

4424
04:18:21,280 --> 04:18:25,000
Speaker 1: for solar panels and they get smashed anyway, you know,

4425
04:18:25,160 --> 04:18:27,920
Speaker 1: Like it's important to have those things. If there's not

4426
04:18:28,080 --> 04:18:30,960
Speaker 1: places like that, there's not places where you you know,

4427
04:18:31,120 --> 04:18:34,640
Speaker 1: like and and so that for itself is cool. And

4428
04:18:34,760 --> 04:18:38,560
Speaker 1: the other thing is just living here with the fucking animals, Like, um,

4429
04:18:39,560 --> 04:18:41,880
Speaker 1: it's cool the deer. If you want to find a

4430
04:18:41,920 --> 04:18:44,680
Speaker 1: get hiding spot in the forest, pay attention to where

4431
04:18:44,680 --> 04:18:47,720
Speaker 1: the fucking deer sleep. They sleep in different places most nights.

4432
04:18:47,760 --> 04:18:49,400
Speaker 1: You won't suck them up as long as you don't

4433
04:18:49,400 --> 04:18:51,960
Speaker 1: pick the exact same when they're sleeping and they're really

4434
04:18:52,000 --> 04:18:54,680
Speaker 1: fucking hard to find. Same thing with the coyotes, Like,

4435
04:18:54,840 --> 04:18:57,040
Speaker 1: same thing with the snakes, and like it's just very

4436
04:18:57,120 --> 04:19:02,160
Speaker 1: cool to get to observe and live with all these animals. Know,

4437
04:19:03,400 --> 04:19:09,520
Speaker 1: there's an owl screaming five o'clock. It's like a nice

4438
04:19:09,560 --> 04:19:12,680
Speaker 1: little marker, and that's that's better than you know, looking

4439
04:19:12,720 --> 04:19:15,960
Speaker 1: at my watch. That's pretty cool. This leads us up

4440
04:19:16,040 --> 04:19:18,960
Speaker 1: to our present day and the upcoming Week of Action

4441
04:19:19,200 --> 04:19:23,440
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia, happening from Sunday, May eight to Sunday

4442
04:19:23,640 --> 04:19:27,560
Speaker 1: May If you are anywhere near the Atlanta area, you

4443
04:19:27,640 --> 04:19:29,880
Speaker 1: have no reason to not check it out. It's a

4444
04:19:29,920 --> 04:19:32,680
Speaker 1: week's worth of events spanning from early in the morning

4445
04:19:32,800 --> 04:19:35,720
Speaker 1: too late into the evening every day for seven days.

4446
04:19:36,040 --> 04:19:38,760
Speaker 1: You can find the calendar of events on Defend the

4447
04:19:38,800 --> 04:19:42,280
Speaker 1: Atlanta Force dot com. And if you are not near Atlanta,

4448
04:19:42,400 --> 04:19:44,760
Speaker 1: I would still recommend you make your way there post

4449
04:19:44,840 --> 04:19:48,080
Speaker 1: taste if you are able to, whether that's during the

4450
04:19:48,200 --> 04:19:51,440
Speaker 1: Week of Action or later on down the line. More

4451
04:19:51,480 --> 04:19:54,640
Speaker 1: boots on the ground is almost always a plus. Here's

4452
04:19:54,680 --> 04:19:56,840
Speaker 1: the more info on the upcoming Week of Action from

4453
04:19:56,960 --> 04:20:01,040
Speaker 1: May eight through May fift so generally the past the

4454
04:20:01,040 --> 04:20:03,720
Speaker 1: past few week of actions have been like really above ground,

4455
04:20:03,800 --> 04:20:07,880
Speaker 1: really like giving people comfortable forest, getting people into a forest,

4456
04:20:08,000 --> 04:20:12,040
Speaker 1: like the community events are like UM and just like

4457
04:20:12,200 --> 04:20:18,000
Speaker 1: public gatherings, inform nights, UH skill shares, other stuff like that.

4458
04:20:18,400 --> 04:20:20,960
Speaker 1: And I believe that this one, like well, like we

4459
04:20:21,080 --> 04:20:23,200
Speaker 1: had a lot about those events. But I also believe that,

4460
04:20:23,320 --> 04:20:25,680
Speaker 1: like due to the nature of what's going on UM,

4461
04:20:26,560 --> 04:20:30,600
Speaker 1: that it's much more urgent that people UH come and

4462
04:20:31,800 --> 04:20:34,400
Speaker 1: create their doing, their own ideas, being known in science,

4463
04:20:34,480 --> 04:20:38,320
Speaker 1: their own desires. And yeah, we can imagine it's odd.

4464
04:20:38,320 --> 04:20:41,960
Speaker 1: It's gonna be weird, it's gonna be crazy, it's gonna

4465
04:20:41,960 --> 04:20:43,880
Speaker 1: be odd of things. I think there's gonna be family

4466
04:20:43,960 --> 04:20:47,120
Speaker 1: family where black hacking trees kind of ship, and I'm

4467
04:20:47,160 --> 04:20:49,000
Speaker 1: excited for that. And I think there's gonna do something

4468
04:20:49,040 --> 04:20:52,280
Speaker 1: like what the fund is going on in the woods

4469
04:20:52,480 --> 04:20:54,760
Speaker 1: kind of shares a bunch of cops kind of ship.

4470
04:20:55,120 --> 04:20:57,080
Speaker 1: Obviously we don't know what's really going to happen, but

4471
04:20:57,240 --> 04:21:00,200
Speaker 1: anyone that has been reading stuff like, oh man, don't

4472
04:21:00,200 --> 04:21:01,920
Speaker 1: want to go throw down with the crazies, you should

4473
04:21:01,960 --> 04:21:04,320
Speaker 1: come and do that. And we have some stuff to

4474
04:21:04,400 --> 04:21:08,120
Speaker 1: share and hopefully there will be so many people here

4475
04:21:08,160 --> 04:21:09,840
Speaker 1: that don't know how to deal with it. The problem

4476
04:21:09,920 --> 04:21:13,720
Speaker 1: going here is the Atlanta Police Force. Um, they there

4477
04:21:13,840 --> 04:21:16,200
Speaker 1: is a lot of them, but honestly they're also they're

4478
04:21:16,240 --> 04:21:22,680
Speaker 1: stressed out and they are run um what's that run dry? Respect?

4479
04:21:22,720 --> 04:21:25,960
Speaker 1: Then they really they don't know how to deal with

4480
04:21:26,080 --> 04:21:27,880
Speaker 1: all this wood ship from ship that we've heard them

4481
04:21:27,880 --> 04:21:30,280
Speaker 1: talking about. They don't know what to do. They're not

4482
04:21:30,400 --> 04:21:33,520
Speaker 1: totally prepared. I think it's gonna be a really fun

4483
04:21:33,760 --> 04:21:35,720
Speaker 1: and crazy ship show and we want you all to

4484
04:21:35,760 --> 04:21:37,920
Speaker 1: come to our ship show in a good way. And

4485
04:21:38,680 --> 04:21:40,680
Speaker 1: they know you shouldn't use those words, but in reality,

4486
04:21:40,840 --> 04:21:43,600
Speaker 1: nobody actually knows what's going to happen. We know what

4487
04:21:43,680 --> 04:21:46,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna do. We have plans that people can plug into,

4488
04:21:47,320 --> 04:21:48,960
Speaker 1: some stuff you can bring your kids to, and some

4489
04:21:49,120 --> 04:21:51,320
Speaker 1: stuff you should not bring your kids to, and there

4490
04:21:51,360 --> 04:21:53,440
Speaker 1: will be more. To be honest with, you really got

4491
04:21:53,560 --> 04:21:55,160
Speaker 1: to just be there in person because there's something You

4492
04:21:55,200 --> 04:21:57,480
Speaker 1: can't put everything on Instagram by doing your best to

4493
04:21:57,560 --> 04:22:01,000
Speaker 1: like communicate to folks what's going on, there's just some

4494
04:22:01,360 --> 04:22:09,720
Speaker 1: things you gotta cam two whatever the weekend action. But

4495
04:22:09,840 --> 04:22:12,720
Speaker 1: this is like we're helping people get returned out for

4496
04:22:12,920 --> 04:22:15,040
Speaker 1: this weekend. Actually, and maybe we all just become a

4497
04:22:15,240 --> 04:22:19,360
Speaker 1: roving nomadic war machine together. That would be the dream.

4498
04:22:19,680 --> 04:22:23,600
Speaker 1: So you have a thing in your hometown, in your territory,

4499
04:22:24,120 --> 04:22:27,400
Speaker 1: and we nomadic war machine over years back, and we

4500
04:22:27,600 --> 04:22:32,120
Speaker 1: just keep doing that. A few resources that some of

4501
04:22:32,240 --> 04:22:35,880
Speaker 1: the force defenders wanted people to know about is first, obviously,

4502
04:22:36,080 --> 04:22:39,040
Speaker 1: Defend the Atlanta Forest dot com, which has the Week

4503
04:22:39,120 --> 04:22:42,440
Speaker 1: of Action calendar to keep up on news regarding the movement.

4504
04:22:42,520 --> 04:22:45,680
Speaker 1: You can follow them on Twitter and Instagram at Defend

4505
04:22:45,760 --> 04:22:49,840
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Forest or Defend a t L Forest. There

4506
04:22:49,960 --> 04:22:54,080
Speaker 1: is the Forest Justice Defense Fund at Open Collective dot

4507
04:22:54,160 --> 04:23:00,400
Speaker 1: com slash Forest Hyphen Justice Hyphened Defense hyphen Fund, where

4508
04:23:00,560 --> 04:23:03,520
Speaker 1: people can donate to support the work of the broad

4509
04:23:03,600 --> 04:23:07,200
Speaker 1: Coalition dedicated to saving the forest. There's of course stop

4510
04:23:07,360 --> 04:23:10,840
Speaker 1: Reeves Young dot com, which has information on subcontractors and

4511
04:23:10,960 --> 04:23:14,840
Speaker 1: third party service providers relating to the cops city construction.

4512
04:23:15,720 --> 04:23:19,560
Speaker 1: Very useful even just for simple calling campaigns. The website

4513
04:23:19,760 --> 04:23:23,480
Speaker 1: scenes dot no blogs dot org hosts other news relating

4514
04:23:23,520 --> 04:23:27,000
Speaker 1: to the movement, anonymous community case and stuff like maps

4515
04:23:27,080 --> 04:23:31,840
Speaker 1: of the area and random other useful information resources for

4516
04:23:32,040 --> 04:23:35,680
Speaker 1: info and guides relating to direct action. There's a website

4517
04:23:35,760 --> 04:23:39,280
Speaker 1: titled warrior up dot no blogs dot org and people

4518
04:23:39,320 --> 04:23:41,200
Speaker 1: can go there or to a warrior up dot no

4519
04:23:41,320 --> 04:23:47,320
Speaker 1: blogs dot org slash guides for various interesting information. I'll say, um,

4520
04:23:47,440 --> 04:23:50,600
Speaker 1: and that last one is really best viewed on tour

4521
04:23:51,360 --> 04:23:53,760
Speaker 1: with via the tour browser just as a heads up.

4522
04:23:54,120 --> 04:23:57,360
Speaker 1: Also probably with like a VPN. And I don't know anyway,

4523
04:23:57,480 --> 04:24:00,640
Speaker 1: be be careful with that last one. But all of these,

4524
04:24:00,760 --> 04:24:03,440
Speaker 1: all of these sites will be linked in the show notes.

4525
04:24:04,200 --> 04:24:07,760
Speaker 1: The future lies in your hands. You have more freedom

4526
04:24:07,800 --> 04:24:11,320
Speaker 1: than you know if you can find the unconventional ways

4527
04:24:11,440 --> 04:24:14,640
Speaker 1: of expressing it. See you on the other side. And

4528
04:24:15,040 --> 04:24:18,320
Speaker 1: I'll end with a word from our forced defender friend,

4529
04:24:19,000 --> 04:24:25,760
Speaker 1: there's no future. That's nomadic war machine as well. Right, Yeah,

4530
04:24:25,840 --> 04:24:28,600
Speaker 1: hopefully we're gonna stop the police training facility. I think

4531
04:24:28,880 --> 04:24:31,680
Speaker 1: we really are looking forward to people, hopefully some people

4532
04:24:31,720 --> 04:24:34,600
Speaker 1: sticking around there for the week of action, because we're

4533
04:24:34,680 --> 04:24:39,240
Speaker 1: hoping that it doesn't die down too much to the

4534
04:24:39,360 --> 04:24:44,160
Speaker 1: point where a smaller and achieve them that was here

4535
04:24:44,200 --> 04:24:46,440
Speaker 1: for a week of action gets attacked. We love it,

4536
04:24:46,560 --> 04:24:50,560
Speaker 1: and some of valid stay stay around exactly that if

4537
04:24:50,600 --> 04:24:54,600
Speaker 1: it can happen here, I wasn't thinking abouts, it can

4538
04:24:54,680 --> 04:24:56,880
Speaker 1: happen where you live. And maybe we can just keep

4539
04:24:57,720 --> 04:24:59,960
Speaker 1: the idea. As we're sharing of skills we make ourselves.

4540
04:25:00,000 --> 04:25:02,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely no one should be integral enough to the movement

4541
04:25:02,440 --> 04:25:05,240
Speaker 1: that you can't die off a leave and it can't continue.

4542
04:25:05,840 --> 04:25:10,400
Speaker 1: People should be reading manuals, sharing skills, telling stories, howling

4543
04:25:10,480 --> 04:25:14,040
Speaker 1: at the moons. We're doing all this stuff to make

4544
04:25:14,120 --> 04:25:17,440
Speaker 1: each other just a weird of the different things that

4545
04:25:17,520 --> 04:25:19,840
Speaker 1: are possible for us to run because maybe we don't

4546
04:25:21,520 --> 04:25:23,920
Speaker 1: have all the you know, the guns and the steel

4547
04:25:23,960 --> 04:25:26,520
Speaker 1: and the gold, but if we have enough people like

4548
04:25:26,640 --> 04:25:29,080
Speaker 1: being creative and doing some guerrilla ship, we can get

4549
04:25:29,080 --> 04:25:32,080
Speaker 1: a lot done. And at the end of the day,

4550
04:25:32,200 --> 04:25:34,760
Speaker 1: if you you can do you have to be careful

4551
04:25:34,760 --> 04:25:36,480
Speaker 1: about how many hats to ring. If you don't know

4552
04:25:36,520 --> 04:25:38,880
Speaker 1: about the r n C eight that's a long time ago.

4553
04:25:38,960 --> 04:25:41,000
Speaker 1: Now look that up. They're wearing. They are really great

4554
04:25:41,040 --> 04:25:44,040
Speaker 1: community organizers, but they were wearing too many hats. It

4555
04:25:44,240 --> 04:25:47,720
Speaker 1: was the first time that Patriot Act kind of new

4556
04:25:47,840 --> 04:25:50,200
Speaker 1: laws after not eleven was like you lized on people

4557
04:25:50,240 --> 04:25:53,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of it didn't stick. But if you

4558
04:25:53,920 --> 04:25:57,000
Speaker 1: what we really need is more faceless saboteurs, because honestly,

4559
04:25:57,200 --> 04:26:00,400
Speaker 1: if they that's what we need, we need to be

4560
04:26:01,520 --> 04:26:04,720
Speaker 1: There's just in reality, there's not enough people willing to

4561
04:26:04,800 --> 04:26:08,800
Speaker 1: do nightwhere that looks like there's up behavior, which is great,

4562
04:26:09,560 --> 04:26:15,000
Speaker 1: be safe, be smart at the actors a little, and

4563
04:26:15,120 --> 04:26:17,720
Speaker 1: that's that's what we need, more than saying there's a

4564
04:26:17,720 --> 04:26:21,280
Speaker 1: lot of people that um are willing to do above

4565
04:26:21,320 --> 04:26:23,360
Speaker 1: ground staff. There's a lot of people that want to

4566
04:26:23,440 --> 04:26:27,560
Speaker 1: be known, and that's great, but we have enough for that.

4567
04:26:28,000 --> 04:26:34,720
Speaker 1: We need something else. It Could Happen Here is a

4568
04:26:34,760 --> 04:26:37,600
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool

4569
04:26:37,680 --> 04:26:40,280
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com

4570
04:26:40,440 --> 04:26:42,200
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

4571
04:26:42,200 --> 04:26:45,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

4572
04:26:45,600 --> 04:26:48,280
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

4573
04:26:48,320 --> 04:26:52,960
Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Hey,

4574
04:26:53,120 --> 04:26:56,200
Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

4575
04:26:56,240 --> 04:26:57,920
Speaker 1: now until the heat Death of the Universe.