1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Today on the bright side, we're talking emotional fitness. Psychologists 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: and author of Flex Your Feelings, Doctor Emily Anhalt is 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: here to show us how characteristics like mindfulness, self awareness, curiosity, 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: and resilience aren't just fixed traits. They're actually muscles we 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: can train through discipline and exercise. 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: So many of us feel like life is happening to us. 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like we're necessarily making choices, and actually 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: self awareness shows you that you are designing your life, 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 2: and the more you understand about that, the more you 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: can do it in an intentional way. 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm simone voice, and this is the bright side from 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. When you hear the word fitness, what comes 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: to mind probably your body right weights, cardio, maybe that 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: peloton in your house or sweaty jim bench. Physical fitness 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: is what we've all been taught to focus on. But honestly, 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't until I discovered the work of today's guests 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: that I realized fitness doesn't always have to be physical. 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: It can be emotional too. Doctor Emily Anhalt is the 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: author of Flex Your Feelings, A Guide to cultivating these 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: seven essential traits of emotional fitness, and doctor Emily is 21 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: an expert in this space because she's a clinical psychologist 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: with over a decade of experience helping entrepreneurs, founders, and 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: high performing executives build emotional strength and learn how to 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: better manage stress, and now she's sharing those secrets with us. 25 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Emily is a co founder of CoA, one of 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: the first ever gyms for mental health that focuses on 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: hyper practical tools to help improve mental and emotional well being. 28 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: We're talking live and on demand classes led by therapists 29 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: and super specific coursework like strengthening emotionally fit leadership for 30 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: BIPOC leaders. What I love about today's conversation with doctor 31 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: Emily is that it's super We're practical. You can literally 32 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: walk away from this episode with exercises to strengthen characteristics 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: like empathy, compassion, and playfulness. You want to be more 34 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: curious and less defensive, there's a workout for that. You 35 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: want to be more resilient and able to bounce forward 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: from life setbacks. There's a workout for that. You want 37 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: to be more self aware so you can confront your 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: blind spots and truly design your own life well. Doctor 39 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: Emily's got a work out for that too. Whether you're 40 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: processing a breakup, navigating workplace drama, or fighting off a 41 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: midlife crisis, Doctor Emily is giving us the research backed 42 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: tools and language to flex those feelings and gain emotional stamina. 43 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with doctor Emily Anhalt. Doctor Emily Anhlt, 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the bright Side. 45 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. 46 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: You are the co founder of CoA. It's a home 47 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: for therapy, community and emotional fitness classes. I love the 48 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: phrasing of that class is in session. Can you describe 49 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: what it means to be emotionally fit? 50 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: Absolutely so. Emotional fitness is an ongoing, proactive practice of 51 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: working on your mental and emotional health. I liken it 52 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 2: a little bit to physical fitness, where a lot of 53 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: people think if they're not sick, that means they're healthy. 54 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: But if you talk to someone with good physical fitness, 55 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: someone who eats well, exercises sleeps enough, they'll tell you 56 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 2: just because you're not ill does not mean you're fit. 57 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 2: And the same is really true with our mental and 58 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: emotional health. You don't necessarily need to be struggling with 59 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: daily panic attacks to be working on your mental and 60 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: emotional health, and so I wanted to help people figure 61 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: out how to do emotional pushups and work on their 62 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: mental health in a more proactive way. 63 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: So, as a mental health professional, what was the spark 64 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: that caused you to reframe mental health through this lens 65 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: of fitness. 66 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: Well, I grew up in Silicon Valley and I did 67 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: my training with a lot of entrepreneurs, and I found 68 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: that we had that very pathologizing perspective about mental health, 69 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: where people were either mentally ill or mentally healthy. And 70 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: my experience with entrepreneurs is that most of them are 71 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 2: high performing people. They're doing mostly pretty well, but that 72 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily mean that they are in top emotional sheep. 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: They still want to level up their emotional life, the 74 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 2: relationship they have to themselves and other people. And so 75 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: I wanted to find a slightly less stigmatized way to 76 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: think and talk about mental health. And it feels like 77 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: these days people understand how important physical fitness is, and 78 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: that wasn't always true. You know, we didn't have a 79 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: lot of workout classes available to us twenty years ago, 80 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: and now it's really common. And my goal is to 81 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: do the same thing with emotional fitness is to make 82 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 2: it just an everyday, not even that interesting practice, because 83 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: it's something everyone's doing that we're working on our mental 84 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: health the way that we would go to the gym. 85 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: So it's mental health for the ice bath. 86 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 2: Crowd totally, but really it's for everyone. 87 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: It is for everyone, because as I was reading your book, 88 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: I was like Wow, I was just highlighting and adding 89 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: notes to the side and just thinking, gosh, this is 90 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: so practical and it's so easy to implement, So I 91 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: can't wait to dive in. Your book covers seven essential 92 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: traits of emotional fitness mindfulness, curiosity, self awareness, resilience, empathy, communication, 93 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: and playfulness. Now, the way that you described mindfulness, doctor Emily, 94 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: completely changed my perspective on it. You say it actually 95 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: has more to do with discomfort than anything else. 96 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: Right, So there are a lot of ways to define mindfulness, 97 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 2: but I have found that the most powerful way I 98 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: can think about it is becoming more comfortable being uncomfortable. 99 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: So much of what we do in life is us 100 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: trying to move away from our discomfort. But so often 101 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: the things that we do to avoid our discomfort end 102 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 2: up being more uncomfortable and a worse for us. Than 103 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: the original thing we're trying to avoid. Like picture the 104 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: person who's uncomfortable having tough conversations and so they just 105 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: avoid talking about tough things, and then later they're resentful 106 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: and in these horrible relationship dynamics with all of these 107 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 2: unsaid issues. So for me, mindfulness is about coming back 108 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: to a present moment and sitting in our discomfort long 109 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: enough to make the best choices instead of just the 110 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 2: most comfortable choices. 111 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: But that's not as comfortable as just, you know, observing 112 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 1: the beauty of life around you, which is I feel 113 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: like a lot of the messaging that we hear about mindfulness. 114 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: For sure, but I mean in a way, it's saying 115 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 2: the same thing. Because mindfulness in the traditional sense is 116 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: about coming back to the present moment. And I think 117 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: often when we are not in the present moment, it's 118 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: because the present moment is uncomfortable. So the more we're 119 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: able to tolerate discomfort, the more present we can be 120 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: in our lives, the more we can actually live our 121 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 2: life with intention. 122 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: Well, you've really made mindfulness the cornerstone of all these 123 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: emotional fitness traits, and you write in order to get 124 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: emotionally fit, you have to be willing to get uncomfortable. 125 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: And I love this line from your book. You said, quote, 126 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: every single thing you want in your work and personal 127 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: life lives on the other side of discomfort. Can you 128 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: walk us through a mindfulness push up that we can 129 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: try in order to build up our tolerance for discomfort? 130 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: For sure, So what makes me a little uncomfortable is 131 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: going to be different than what makes you a little uncomfortable. 132 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: So a push up for me will look a little 133 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: different than it might for you. So I'm actually going 134 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: to walk us through it, and maybe we can each 135 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: think of an example to show that they might be different. 136 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: But the first step of a push up in the 137 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: mindfulness category is think of one thing that makes you 138 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: just a little more uncomfortable than it seems to make 139 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: other people. And by this I don't mean something that 140 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: makes you panic or something where you don't feel safe. 141 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: This is just something that makes you a little uncomfortable. 142 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: So for some people it might be public speaking, For others, 143 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: it might be having tough conversation or saying no. For me, 144 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: the example I'll use is I'm not very comfortable being bored. 145 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: I don't like sitting still. My mind always wants to 146 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: be working, so I'm on my phone a lot when 147 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: I should probably just be still with myself. So what's 148 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 2: one thing for you that makes you just a little uncomfortable. 149 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: Something that makes me uncomfortable is saying no. 150 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: Saying no, Okay, that's such a good one, all right. 151 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: So once everyone has a sense of which type of 152 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: discomfort they're going to work with, the second step is 153 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: to think about what you do to avoid your discomfort. 154 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 2: What are you doing to move away from that feeling. 155 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: So for me to avoid being bored, I'm usually scrolling 156 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 2: on my phone or doing something mindless just to not 157 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: have to be still with my own thoughts. So what 158 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 2: do you do to avoid saying no? 159 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: I'll dance around the know and I'll kind of fill 160 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: it in with other rationales. I'll try to just avoid 161 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: actually confronting the know and the truth totally. 162 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: I think that's a really common thing. People say yes 163 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: when they want to say no, or they say oh maybe, 164 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: and then they never get back to it. 165 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: We all do things like this. 166 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: So then the third step is to think, what are 167 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: the consequences of this avoidance? In what ways are you 168 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: actually paying a higher price by not leaning into your 169 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: discomfort than you would by just dealing with it. So 170 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: in my case, I end up feeling really brain dead 171 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: and gross scrolling on my phone for an hour, versus 172 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: how I would probably feel if I just took a 173 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: few breaths and sat still with my thoughts. So what 174 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: do you think the consequences might be for you? Kind 175 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: of dancing around and not saying no when you want 176 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: to that I. 177 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: Have to then do clean up work after. I have 178 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: to then have an additional conversation, which requires more emotional labor, 179 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: and say, actually, I didn't want to do that. I 180 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: should have declined on the spot totally. 181 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: And I can imagine maybe sometimes you start to feel 182 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: resentful or overwhelmed of these things that you would have 183 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 2: liked to say no to, but you didn't. So those 184 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 2: are great examples. So then the final step is to 185 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: think of a sh shock absorber, or one little thing 186 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: that allows us to sit with that discomfort, to practice 187 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: leaning toward that discomfort. So for me, I challenge myself 188 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: when I am in quick situations of boredom, like at 189 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: a red light or waiting online. I challenge myself not 190 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 2: to be on my phone in those moments, and if 191 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 2: I find myself feeling bored, I will literally take three 192 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: slow breaths and just remind myself I can handle it, 193 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 2: and I'll look around and I'll try to name some 194 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: interesting things that I'm seeing. So these are the ways 195 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 2: I've dealt with my discomfort in those moments. What do 196 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: you think you could do to take a small step 197 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: toward saying no? And that's what you want to say. 198 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: I actually am curious to hear your prescription for this problem. 199 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: What would you suggest I do in order to take 200 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: baby steps toward saying no? 201 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 2: So one suggestion might be saying, let me think about that, 202 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 2: and I'll get back to you in ten minutes or 203 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 2: one day or one week, whatever makes sense, and then 204 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 2: in that time, really checking in with yourself, what do 205 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: I want to say? What am I afraid will happen 206 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 2: if I just say no? How can I say it 207 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: in a way that feels like it aligns with my 208 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: values and is still really clear? But by giving yourself 209 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: that time, by saying let me think about that, you 210 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 2: have some time to wrap your mind around the discomfort 211 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: versus feeling like you have to just say no right 212 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 2: in that moment. 213 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: Can I add a little complication in there. 214 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 2: Sure. 215 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: So something that makes me uncomfortable is when I say 216 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: something like that, I actually have been getting better about 217 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: kind of putting a comma in whatever the conversation is 218 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: and saying, let me think about this. I find that 219 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: sometimes that makes other people uncomfortable, and they will they 220 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: seem uneasy like, and they start to kind of rush you. Well, okay, 221 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: well when are you going to get back to me? 222 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: And when am I going to get an answer? How 223 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: do I how do I navigate that? 224 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: Well, you're naming another type of discomfort a lot of 225 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: us feel, which is we are not very comfortable with 226 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 2: other people's discomfort, and it can feel like it's our 227 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: job to fix it or make them feel better. And 228 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: I think part of this whole idea around mindfulness is 229 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: that we could all benefit from learning how to deal 230 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: with our own discomfort a little better. So I think 231 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: I would challenge you in those moments to remind yourself 232 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: that it's not your job to keep other people from 233 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: feeling uncomfortable with your choices and your needs. It's their job. 234 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: But what you can do is model that you are 235 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: comfortable in your own self in that moment, So if 236 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 2: you see them being like, oh, well, when you're going 237 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: to get back to me, you can say, ooh, I know, 238 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 2: I know it'd be nice to have an answer right now, 239 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: but I want to give you a really authentic answer. 240 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: So give me ten minutes or give me a day, 241 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: and I'll get back to you and then, you know, 242 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: trust them to be their adult self and deal with 243 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: whatever that makes them feel. 244 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: Bright side, bessies, are you listening to this? This is 245 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: incredible therapy right now. I mean I should stop this 246 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: podcast and pay money because that was incredible, the work 247 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: that we just did just now, that was so helpful 248 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: to me. 249 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: Let's go getting emotionally swollen. 250 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be 251 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: right back. Okay. Next, I want to talk about curiosity. 252 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: We often think of curiosity as something we either have 253 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: or we don't. You know, we're born with this curious 254 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: itch or we're not. How is that mindset holding us back? 255 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 2: So I define curiosity as pursuing growth over defensiveness. So 256 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: when someone comes to you with tough feedback, or when 257 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,479 Speaker 2: you're faced with a difficult situation, do you get defensive? 258 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: Do you blame other people or become overly apologetic or 259 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: shift kind of away from yourself, or do you lean 260 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: in and ask questions and see what you can learn 261 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: from the experience and figure out how you can grow 262 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 2: from the experience. That, to me, is what curiosity is 263 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 2: all about. It's having that learning and growth mindset. Wow, 264 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 2: and it can be practiced. It is a muscle that 265 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: can get stronger. None of us like hearing bad feedback. 266 00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't feel good for any of us. 267 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: But the more you take in, the less essentially intolerable 268 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 2: it can feel. 269 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: Curiosity is pursuing growth over defensiveness. I've never heard anyone 270 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: define it that way. That's really eye opening. 271 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: I see curiosity as the opposite of defensiveness because when 272 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: we're defensive, we're working hard to keep difficult information out, 273 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: and when we're curious, we're actively asking to take information in. 274 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: Right, So calling it in. 275 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: It's antidote in a way. 276 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 277 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: Like if someone came to you and said, hey, I 278 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: really didn't like how that presentation went, your defensive self 279 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: wants to say, well, you know, I didn't have all 280 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: the information I needed or I'm so sorry I should 281 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: have done better, and the curious self says, okay, let 282 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: me take a breath and ask, well, what could have 283 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: been different? How could I show it better next time? 284 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 2: What did it feel like for you? You know, it's 285 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: not feeling like you have to fix something right away, 286 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 2: it's just asking questions to learn more. 287 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: You just pointed out an overlooked aspect of curiosity, which 288 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: is extending curiosity to ourselves. How could that take shape 289 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: in a curiosity push up? 290 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: So the best push up I can suggest for this 291 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 2: is to ask for feedback. Ask for feedback often, ask 292 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: for it proactively. A lot of people in your life 293 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: are not going to tell you what they really think 294 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: about you unless you ask, And so the pushup I 295 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: would prescribe for everyone is take out your phone right now, 296 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: pull up a text message and address it to someone 297 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: who you spend time with, you collaborate with, and whose 298 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: perspective you respect, and send them a message that says 299 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: something like, Hey, I'm working on my curiosity. I'm working 300 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: on taking in feedback, and I'm curious if you would 301 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 2: be willing to share what is one thing I'm doing 302 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: well as a friend or a colleague or a sister 303 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: or a boss, and what is one thing I could 304 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: do ten percent better? And send that message off and 305 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: just wait and see what comes back to you. You 306 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: might be really surprised. And when you do get that response, 307 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: pay attention to how you feel. Does your stomach clench 308 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: up when you see what you could do better? Does 309 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: it feel like you don't want it to be true? 310 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: Or do you tell yourself, oh, yeah, I already knew that. 311 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 2: Or can you sit with it for a second and 312 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 2: really take it in, let your defenses come down a bit, 313 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: and see what it might have to teach you. 314 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: What I'm hearing from you right now reminds me of 315 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: another one of your essential traits of emotional fitness, which 316 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: is self awareness. Yes, and you offer up some research 317 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: in the book Doctor Emily that really had me giggling. 318 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: There's this statistic that you share that says that most 319 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: people believe they are self aware, but studies show only 320 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: fifteen percent of people are actually self aware. Yeah, which 321 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: means they're not self aware at all. Yeah. 322 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: I mean, most of us are not as self aware 323 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: as we think. And that's because so I know everything 324 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: I do know about myself, which feels like a lot, 325 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: and I can see some of the things that other 326 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: people don't know about themselves. And so in contrast, it 327 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: feels like I know more about me than you do 328 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 2: about you. But what I don't know are the things 329 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: I don't know about myself, the things that other people 330 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: see that I don't see. There's so much you don't know, 331 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 2: you don't know, and so that you're so right that 332 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: curiosity leads right into self awareness because once you lower 333 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: your defenses and you ask for information to come in, 334 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: self awareness is you integrating that information and learning more 335 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: about yourself, peeking into those blind spots and figuring out 336 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 2: how you might be repeating patterns or showing up in 337 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: a way that you didn't really intend to. 338 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: You mentioned feedback as a tool for strengthening curiosity. You 339 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: also say that we can build self awareness through feedback. 340 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: That's one element. Another is through introspection and also therapy. 341 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: These are all tools that we can have in our 342 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: self awareness toolkit. What are the questions that we should 343 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: be asking ourselves throughout each of these processes. 344 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: So when it comes to therapy, I think therapy is 345 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: really misunderstood and still very stigmatized. A lot of people 346 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: wait until things are really tough to go to therapy. 347 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 2: They wait till they're in crisis and don't get me wrong, 348 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: that's a great time to get support. But if you 349 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: go when things are mostly fine, then you can do 350 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 2: this more proactive kind of work. You can understand your 351 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 2: patterns and learn who you are in relationships, and you 352 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 2: can prevent a lot of the struggles that might have 353 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: become a problem later. So the question to ask yourself 354 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: there is is it worth a try? Do I want 355 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: to know what I don't know? So therapy is great 356 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: for that. The other thing I recommend is journaling introspection, 357 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 2: and that is because thoughts and feelings tend to be 358 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: different inside our heads whirling around than they are when 359 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 2: we write them down on paper. We create a little 360 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 2: space between ourselves and them that can be super helpful. 361 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 2: And it's also this record keeper. You know, when you're 362 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: feeling depressed or down, your brain will convince you that 363 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: you have never felt good before and you never will again. 364 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 2: And journaling is a way to see, oh wait, just 365 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 2: a week ago, I felt actually pretty good. I had 366 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 2: a great day. Maybe things aren't as dire as I thought. 367 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: I've been keeping a journal that's just one line a day, 368 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 2: and you can literally type into Google line a day 369 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 2: journal and it just prompts you each day to write 370 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 2: one line about how you're feeling. But I've been doing 371 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 2: it for five years, so I know how I have 372 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: felt on this day over the past five years, and 373 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 2: it's pretty wild to see the patterns that show up, like, oh, 374 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 2: I'm more creative in the spring. Maybe I should start 375 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: more projects in the spring. Or huh, every year right 376 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 2: before Thanksgiving, I'm a little anxious. Maybe that's because I'm 377 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: seeing my family and things are coming up. That's good 378 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: to know. So that's a really powerful practice as well. 379 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: You're collecting data, one hundred percent self data. So once 380 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: we start that process of holding up the mirror, how 381 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: will we start to see the power of self awareness 382 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: in our lives. 383 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: So the things that you're not aware of are still 384 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 2: affecting the choices that you're making. So we have all 385 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 2: kinds of complicated dynamics from our past. We talk to 386 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 2: ourselves in a particular way. We have beliefs about what 387 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: we do and how worthy we are of things, and 388 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 2: what's possible for us that we're not fully aware of 389 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: the sort of subconscious ideas, and those ideas are sometimes 390 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 2: in the driver's seat. So if deep down you don't 391 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 2: believe that you are worthy of succeeding, and then you're 392 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 2: up for a promotion. Without realizing you're doing it, you 393 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: might steer away from that promotion. Self awareness means that 394 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: you start to shine light on these things and you 395 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 2: have more of an idea of why you are this way, 396 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: and so you can then make a more conscious choice. 397 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 2: So if I have the self awareness to know that 398 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: sometimes I don't feel worthy of success, then when a 399 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 2: promotion comes around, I'll have the self awareness to say, 400 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 2: all right, some part of me doesn't feel like I 401 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 2: deserve this, but I want to step into this. I 402 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: want to work on my self confidence, so I'm going 403 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: to go for it. There's this incredible quote I love 404 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 2: by psychologist Carl Jung, and he said, until you make 405 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: the unconscious conscious, it will rule your life and you 406 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: will call it. And what he's saying there is so 407 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: many of us feel like life is happening to us. 408 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like we're necessarily making choices. And actually, 409 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: self awareness shows you that you are designing your life, 410 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 2: and the more you understand about that, the more you 411 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 2: can do it in an intentional way. 412 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: That is so good. Self awareness allows you to design 413 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: your life. Yes, and that's what we all want to 414 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: do for sure. Yeah, so good, Okay, moving down this 415 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: list of traits of emotional fitness. Resilience is an interesting 416 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: one because I've observed a backlash to it in recent years. 417 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: Curious if you've picked up on that too, and can 418 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: you bust some common myths about what resilience really means? 419 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 2: For sure? And I feel you on the pushback around it. 420 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: One thing I wish the world understood is that we 421 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: should not be telling people to be resilient if what 422 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: we mean is to suffer more quietly. This is something 423 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: that I feel like there's all of these entities that 424 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: are in power that are telling people, hey, just pull 425 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: yourself up by your bootstraps, be more resilient. But they're 426 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 2: not really saying be more resilient. They're saying, stop making 427 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: noise and stop bringing attention to problematic systems. And that's 428 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 2: not what resilience is about. Resilience is about bouncing forward 429 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: through difficulties and setbacks and failures. 430 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: What do you mean by bouncing forward? 431 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 2: Yes, so I say bouncing forward instead of bouncing back, 432 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 2: Because the difficult things we experience change us. We never 433 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 2: go back to being the person we were before we 434 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: went through a hard thing, So that shouldn't be our goal. 435 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 2: Resilience is about using our experiences as a springboard to 436 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: move forward and learn and grow. And I guess one 437 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: of the myths that I would want to bust is 438 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: this idea that everything is for the best. I don't 439 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 2: think everything always has to be for the best. It's 440 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 2: okay if a difficult experience didn't make you stronger. It's 441 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: okay if you're not grateful for the horrible things you experienced. 442 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: Sometimes things are just really painful and tough, and that's okay. 443 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: Surviving is enough, and resilience is sometimes just about continuing 444 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 2: to put one foot in front of the other. 445 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because I know there's 446 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: someone listening who needed to hear that today. What are 447 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: some common obstacles to resilience? 448 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 2: You know, what's an interesting thing about resilience is a 449 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 2: lot of the most resilient people out there are resilient 450 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: because they had to be. They went through a lot 451 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: of hard things really early and they were forced to 452 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: develop an ability to keep moving forward. And so sometimes 453 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 2: an obstacle to resilience is just that you don't have 454 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 2: confidence in yourself to go through hard things if you 455 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: don't feel like you've been through a lot of hard things. 456 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 2: Other times it can just feel like if you are 457 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 2: sitting still in your pain, that you're not being resilient. 458 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: Maybe that's another myth I'd want to bust is. I 459 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: think some people think that resilient people are the ones 460 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 2: who move forward with a smile on their face. Everything's 461 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: always fine and they're not going to let anything hold 462 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 2: them back. And to me, sure, resilience comes from being 463 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: able to feel your feelings and acknowledge the things that 464 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 2: are hard and then decide that you're going to keep 465 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: moving from there. 466 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: I just had a conversation with someone on our show, 467 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: Sarah Spain, about her fear of failure, and she told 468 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: me that she made a lot of decisions in her 469 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: life from this position of a fear of failure. Is 470 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: there a connection between resilience and overcoming a fear of failure? 471 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: And if so, how can we strengthen that resilience muscle 472 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: to push past that? 473 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I would say that a resilient person is 474 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 2: not someone without fear. A resilient person is someone who 475 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: does the thing anyway. So perhaps it's not that you 476 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 2: shouldn't fear failure, it's that you should decide that even 477 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 2: though the idea of failure is scary, you're going to 478 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 2: go after it anyway. This feels like it throws back 479 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: to the mindfulness trait, which is if the fear of 480 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: failing makes you uncomfortable, you might not go after anything 481 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 2: because you don't want to fail. And so mindfulness might 482 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 2: be saying, yeah, if I fail, that's going to be hard, 483 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: but not trying is going to be its own kind 484 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: of difficult. Regret hangs a lot heavier than failure, I believe, 485 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 2: you know. I think people regret the things they don't 486 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 2: do a lot more than they regret the things that 487 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: they do try. So yeah, I would say, you know, 488 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: power to all the people who are moving forward despite 489 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 2: fear with fear. To me, it's not about getting rid 490 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 2: of it. 491 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more after this quick break, and 492 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: we're back with doctor Emily Anhalt. I want to kind 493 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: of zoom out now that we've talked about these essential 494 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: traits of emotional fitness and think about the implications in 495 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: the real world and the work world. So you species 496 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: and working with entrepreneurs and leaders. You mentioned that you 497 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: kind of got your start in Silicon Valley, and according 498 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: to your website, seventy percent of employee mental health is 499 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: shaped by how their leaders behave so with so much 500 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: power and nowadays seeing so much power concentrated in fewer hands, 501 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: how can leaders in the workplace create a supportive environment 502 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: for people across race, gender, ability, and other identities relying 503 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: on these principles in your book. 504 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: It's a big question. I don't know there's one perfect answer, 505 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: but I always say start at the top, start with leadership. 506 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 2: If you are a leader and you want to create 507 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 2: an environment where people feel like they can work on 508 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: their emotional fitness, you better be working on your emotional fitness. 509 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: People are going to do as you do, not as 510 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 2: you say, And I compare it a lot to being 511 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 2: a parent. I know it's not exactly the same, but 512 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 2: like a parent, employees are going to look to a 513 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 2: leader to understand how they should be showing up what's acceptable. 514 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 2: You know, if a leader says you should care about 515 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: your mental health, but there's no mental health care included 516 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: in the insurance, and you're not allowed to take a 517 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: mental health day, and when you ask to have a 518 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 2: weekly spot for your therapy. You're denied, then people are 519 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: not going to think that it's actually safe to work 520 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 2: on their mental health. But when a leader says, hey, everyone, 521 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: just so you know, Thursday's at two pm, I have 522 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 2: my therapy. So that's going to be on my calendar. 523 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 2: And here are the ways that I'm showing up for 524 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 2: my emotional fitness. I would like feedback in a regular 525 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 2: and ongoing way. And here's how I'm going to try 526 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 2: to create a playful environment. When leaders model it, other 527 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: people are much more likely to step. 528 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: In leading by example. Yes, when I think about emotions 529 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: in the workplace, I think about how women have historically 530 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: had our emotions weaponized against us and use to justify, 531 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, reasons why women shouldn't be in positions of leadership. 532 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: And when you look at the research, it's just so 533 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: not true. Traits like empathy and communication traits that you 534 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: discuss in your work are actually the traits that make 535 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: us excel as leaders. So I'd love to reframe this 536 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: with you. How can women use emotional fitness to their 537 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: advantage in the workplace? 538 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 2: You know, there's a way in which women have been 539 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 2: using emotional fitness to their advantage in the workplace and 540 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 2: all kinds of ways in the sense that it has 541 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: made us better at our job for a really long time. 542 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: We have not always been held up or celebrated for that. 543 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: But I do think that women have perhaps more permission 544 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: from society to be emotional creatures in general, even as 545 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: we're penalized for it in the workplace. It's a complicated 546 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 2: dox there. Yeah, yeah, same with how you know, men 547 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 2: are told anger is the only feeling you're allowed to have, 548 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 2: but then we come down on them when they're angry. 549 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: You know, we're all kind of struggling with these paradoxical 550 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: expectations of society for sure. But what I would say 551 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 2: to women is one find your community. Women need other women. 552 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: We need to feel lifted up by people who get it, 553 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 2: and to do the same thing lift other women up. 554 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 2: I think sometimes it can feel like success is a 555 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 2: pie and there's only so much to go around, and 556 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 2: we each have to be really careful to get as 557 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 2: much as we need for ourselves. But I have found 558 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 2: that actually, as you lift other people up, you will 559 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 2: be carried up with them. So support other women and 560 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: then keep advocating. You know, I'm just I'm so impressed 561 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 2: with the women who have said even though I might 562 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: be penalized for this, I believe in it, so I'm 563 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 2: going to do it anyway. I really celebrate those women, 564 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: and I try to be one of those women. So, 565 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: you know, I wish I had a perfect answer for 566 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: how to take down the patriarchy with emotional fitness, but 567 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 2: we can all just do a push up at a 568 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: time and hope that we're moving in the right direction. 569 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: Well. Also, to be fair, a lot of us have 570 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: had experience working under women who are emotionally unfit. Yeah, 571 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: it exists across all genders totally. So let's say someone 572 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: listening right now is working with or under someone who 573 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: is emotionally unfit. What can they do to support themselves 574 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: in that environment? 575 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. I have a lot of people who'll come to 576 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 2: me and say, how do I get my partner to 577 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 2: go to therapy or how do I make my boss 578 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: work on their emotional fitness? And the tough thing is 579 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: we can't really make anyone else do anything. Therapy does 580 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 2: not work if the person doesn't want to be there. 581 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 2: No one can lift your weights for you. If you 582 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: go to the gym and you're not willing to lift 583 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 2: your own weights, you're not going to get stronger. So similarly, 584 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: we can't kind of, you know, force our boss to 585 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: lift their emotional weights. What I have found is the 586 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: most effective thing is do your own work and be 587 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 2: really transparent about it wherever you can work on your 588 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 2: own emotional fitness, and then to anyone who will listen 589 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: and say, wow, look at all these incredible benefits that 590 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: I've gotten from doing this work. Because other people will 591 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: see that and feel more inspired to do that work themselves. 592 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 2: And then a big part of a motiontional fitness is boundaries. 593 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: And ultimately, if you work in an environment where the 594 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 2: people you're working under are not emotionally fit and are 595 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 2: making the environment feel unsafe for you, you don't really 596 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 2: get to control them, but you do get to make 597 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 2: choices for yourself. You can step into your agency and 598 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 2: say how much of this am I willing to tolerate, 599 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: what are my other options, and what is ultimately the 600 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 2: best choice for me moving forward. 601 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: I want to end our conversation by talking about playfulness. 602 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: I really appreciate the balance that you brought to this book, 603 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: because the last trait of your emotional fitness regimen is playfulness? 604 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: Why is that so important? 605 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, play is so undervalued and I think somewhat misunderstood 606 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 2: these days. A lot of people think about it as 607 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: something mostly for kids. Or when I ask people about 608 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: the last time they played, they'll tell me about a 609 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 2: sports game or a video game or a board game, 610 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 2: and those are great types of play. But I really 611 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: love the improv definition of play, which is that when 612 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: someone comes to you with an idea, you don't say, well, yes, 613 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 2: but and you don't even just say yes. You say yes, 614 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: and you meet them in their idea, you expand on 615 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 2: their idea, and together you get somewhere that neither of 616 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: you could have gotten alone. So when you think about 617 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: it this way, brainstorming is a type of play. Or 618 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: taking a joke too far with a friend is a 619 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 2: type of play. Anything that sort of removes constraints u 620 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: lets you think big and focus a little less on 621 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: the end goal and more on the journey is play. 622 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 2: And we forget how immensely important this is in our lives. 623 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: And in fact, I read one study that showed that 624 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 2: people who play regularly live longer by a significant number 625 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 2: of years than people who don't play regularly. That's how 626 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 2: important it is to our well being, so we have 627 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 2: to weave it into our life more. We have to 628 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: actively play Wow. 629 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,479 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Now that's going to be one 630 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: of my favorite statistics. Okay, finally, Dot Emily, we like 631 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: to ask this to all of our guests on the 632 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: bright side. What's an area of your life where you're 633 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: seeing the bright side lately? 634 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 2: You know, I feel the bright side every time I'm 635 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: with community. I think there are so many of our 636 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 2: relationships that are being replaced by technology these days, and 637 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 2: it's so tempting to really live in this world of 638 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 2: technology and we forget how important real heart to heart, 639 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: person to person interactions are for our mental and emotional 640 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 2: and really physical health. So anytime I'm with my people, 641 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: I'm feeling the bright side. 642 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: Yes, I totally agree with you. Amen to that, Doctor Emily. 643 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: This has been fantastic. Thank you so much. 644 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. You are an 645 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 2: incredible host. This is a lovely conversation. 646 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: Doctor Emily Anhalt is a clinical psychologist and co founder 647 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: of the mental health startup CoA, the Gym for Mental Health. 648 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: Her book Flex Your Feelings Train your Brain to do 649 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: well at these seven Traits of Emotional Fitness is out now. 650 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: The bright Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and 651 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and 652 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: me Simone Boyce. Production is by ACAST Creative Studios. Our 653 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, and Darby Masters. Our 654 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: production assistant is Joya Putnoy. Acasts executive producers are Jenny 655 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are 656 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry is the 657 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Pealazola is our showrunner. 658 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser.