1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,040
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to work in Progress,

2
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,240
Speaker 1: where I talk to people who inspire me about how

3
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,160
Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

4
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 1: they're still going. Today's guest is a very dear friend

5
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: of mine. In fact, she is a sister friend. And

6
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,280
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is she's the kind of

7
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 1: soul friend who feels like my family. And she happens

8
00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 1: to be the one and only Glenn and Doyle. I

9
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 1: met glennon years ago, and I'm telling you, guys, we

10
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,960
Speaker 1: instantly hit it off. Her honesty and the way she

11
00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,120
Speaker 1: shares about her life and welcomes everyone into her circle.

12
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,520
Speaker 1: Her horseshoe, in fact, is so inspiring to me. Today

13
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how we met. We're going

14
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 1: to go through her story. We're gonna dig into why

15
00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 1: we need to change the expectations we put on girls

16
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 1: and how we raise um, and of course we're going

17
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 1: to talk all about her latest book, Untamed, which you

18
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,680
Speaker 1: absolutely have to read. We started chatting right away about

19
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 1: being morning people and how she takes advantage of the

20
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: early hours of the day. So if you're catching this

21
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,759
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, you're welcome. And if you're

22
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 1: catching it later, You're still going to be inspired. I

23
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:28,959
Speaker 1: promise she's that good. Enjoy Are you a morning person?

24
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: I am only a morning person, And I actually think

25
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 1: that's why I get I'm done by five, because I'm

26
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,400
Speaker 1: usually up three hours earlier than two, three hours earlier

27
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,360
Speaker 1: than everyone in the house, So I'm usually five. I

28
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 1: figured out a long time ago, especially with little ones

29
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 1: when they were when my kids were little, but that

30
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,200
Speaker 1: was the only time I was myself m there was

31
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,320
Speaker 1: and also most creative in the morning. That's the only

32
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: time I can really write creative LEAs first thing in

33
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 1: the morning. But there's something about like being a woman

34
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,680
Speaker 1: that the minute the world wakes up, you just get

35
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 1: thrown into a million different roles and service and showing

36
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,239
Speaker 1: up and all the things. And so I figured out

37
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 1: that there's a couple of magical hours in the morning

38
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,960
Speaker 1: where I was like nobody's mom, nobody's life, nobody's loss, nobody,

39
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 1: Like it's completely outside of roles, and it really feels

40
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,239
Speaker 1: like soul time to me. And I feel like I'm

41
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 1: like pulling one over on the world because like I've

42
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,520
Speaker 1: already been up for hours before everybody else gets started,

43
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 1: So like like like if I do nothing else the

44
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,359
Speaker 1: rest of the day, I've already done my things. I've

45
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 1: usually done creative by the time the sun comes up.

46
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's my magic time. I like magic time. Yeah,

47
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,359
Speaker 1: it's if I don't have it for a while, I

48
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 1: feel myself start to get itchy. You know, I always

49
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,480
Speaker 1: ask women because I just it's like that time, you know,

50
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 1: untamed where one of the themes is like when I

51
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 1: saw Abby evenn I thought, there she is about me,

52
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:13,720
Speaker 1: about yourself, and I I think we're all in this

53
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,240
Speaker 1: moment of reckoning or awakening where we realize we have

54
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,520
Speaker 1: to feel that way about ourselves. We've been cultured for

55
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 1: so long to think that what we need is outside

56
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,080
Speaker 1: of ourselves. It's in our person, it's in our partner,

57
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 1: it's in the Disney prints, it's in the body we

58
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: want to have, or or the house we want to

59
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 1: move into, or the Pinterest board that will eventually become

60
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 1: our life if we try hard enough. And we spend

61
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 1: all this time folding ourselves into these weird little pretzels,

62
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: and then we wonder why our bones hurt m because

63
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 1: nobody ever talked to us about the reality that it

64
00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,080
Speaker 1: has to be in us. It has to be of us.

65
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 1: The thing we're looking for is us. That's why I

66
00:03:53,880 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 1: love your book so much. Well, it's just hustle, clock, sure, man, hustle,

67
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 1: It's just I can't, I can't. It feels like That's

68
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: why I put the story in the beginning of Untamed,

69
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 1: about the chasing, the chasing of the dirt. Right, yes,

70
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, really and truly it's simple. At the end

71
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 1: of the day, it's that we are born and then

72
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,400
Speaker 1: as women and men have their own ridiculous ideals and expectations,

73
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 1: but ours are clear, and we get these ideals put

74
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,720
Speaker 1: in front of us, and these like things that they

75
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,160
Speaker 1: tell us will make us happy and will make us

76
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 1: feel like we belong and we'll make us feel successful,

77
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: and we'll make up. And then we just spend our

78
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:47,280
Speaker 1: whole lives hustling to to achieve those things. And and

79
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 1: they're all the things you just said. I mean, you know,

80
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:56,840
Speaker 1: their beauty standards, their career standards, their personality standards. And

81
00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 1: then the crazy thing is is that sometimes we get

82
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,040
Speaker 1: lucky and to get those things, and then we realized

83
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: that we're still ourselves and that right, which is tragic

84
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 1: at first, And then awesome, because at some point you realize, oh,

85
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,360
Speaker 1: it's not that I'm not enough yet, it's the hustle.

86
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,599
Speaker 1: The hustle culture is the problem. Yeah. And and to

87
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,039
Speaker 1: your point, there are there are universal truths to this.

88
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,800
Speaker 1: I I have a friend named Lewis who, much like Abby,

89
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,560
Speaker 1: did a lot of sport. He was he became he's

90
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 1: a sport person. He became an All American athlete, which

91
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 1: was the thing he'd always wanted. And he said, the

92
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,279
Speaker 1: euphoria lasted for about eight minutes, and then he went

93
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 1: right back to being angry. And and his his male

94
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,600
Speaker 1: version of this stuff was all of the sort of

95
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,840
Speaker 1: shaming and enraged culture and all the stuff that destroys boys,

96
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,599
Speaker 1: and and he got the joy for eight minutes and

97
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: then he was right back to being a great and

98
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 1: what like that's the ultimate for the boy, like in

99
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,719
Speaker 1: our only only gave your worthiness for boys by you know,

100
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,200
Speaker 1: of course all the emotion suppression and only they're only

101
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:12,839
Speaker 1: allowed to be angry. We're not allowed to be angry.

102
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,839
Speaker 1: They're only allowed to be angry. Um right, But professional sports,

103
00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: I mean that's like she right, that would like the

104
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 1: epitome of a woman, you know, becoming a supermodel while

105
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,920
Speaker 1: making the perfect home, while having three point five children,

106
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,680
Speaker 1: while having the loving there. It's like the epitome of

107
00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 1: male success. So how tear to even reach the epitome

108
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,039
Speaker 1: and realize that's there there? There's no there there. Ah.

109
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,559
Speaker 1: We well, we've just jumped right into this, which doesn't

110
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,160
Speaker 1: surprise me because I've never not jumped right into things

111
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: with you. When we met, this was years ago. You

112
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:56,440
Speaker 1: were you were doing this incredible speaking tour. Um I

113
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 1: figure I should give the audience a little backstory on

114
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,839
Speaker 1: how we're able to do this together. And I was

115
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,239
Speaker 1: so excited. I was working in Chicago at the time,

116
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: and you guys were doing a Chicago stop and you

117
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: had asked if I would come and to this conversation

118
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 1: with you, and you know, it's at this enormous theater auditorium.

119
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you even call that arena? I

120
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 1: don't know, a sport place in Chicago. And we met

121
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 1: in the back before we went on stage, and we

122
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,200
Speaker 1: were just we were barefoot on the couch together in

123
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: thirty two seconds, holding onto each other's bodies, just like, Oh,

124
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,360
Speaker 1: thank god you're here. And I thought, oh, this is

125
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 1: one of my people. How cool. I know when I

126
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 1: meet my people, and and yeah, we've we've been friends

127
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 1: ever since. We've done a lot of speaking together ever since.

128
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,120
Speaker 1: And there we had a fun we had a fun,

129
00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 1: little secret exchange which we'll we'll get into later that

130
00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 1: happened on that first night. But I just remember thinking,

131
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,800
Speaker 1: here's a person who says out loud a lot of

132
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 1: things that I think on the inside that I haven't

133
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 1: always been sure I'm allowed to say out loud. But

134
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,720
Speaker 1: when I do, I always feel better. And I know

135
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 1: that that is a way that so many people feel

136
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,240
Speaker 1: about you, and about your work, and about the way

137
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,680
Speaker 1: that you're willing to share yourself, not just for yourself,

138
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 1: but but in a way because when you stand steady

139
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 1: in front of the fire, you show everyone else it's

140
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,960
Speaker 1: possible to you. You welcome everybody else to the bonfire

141
00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,600
Speaker 1: with you. I'm very honored to know you. You do

142
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,080
Speaker 1: the exact same thing. So that's how we knew we

143
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 1: were people. We were each other's people. Isn't that weird?

144
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,280
Speaker 1: When I think about that, that is so weird because

145
00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,600
Speaker 1: I feel like you are a cozy person. Okay, I'm

146
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,360
Speaker 1: not that cozy of a person. Abby has always said

147
00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,800
Speaker 1: and she said this one time and hurt my feelings

148
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,720
Speaker 1: so much until we got to the bottom of it.

149
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,439
Speaker 1: She said, you know, you are a lot of things,

150
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 1: but nice is not on them. You're not nice. And

151
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,800
Speaker 1: I was like the kids were. It was in front

152
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,160
Speaker 1: of the kids, and I was like so devastated. But

153
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,120
Speaker 1: the point being that it is very unusual. I am

154
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 1: an raging introvert and I'm super sensitive and so I

155
00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 1: am and boundaries are like my myre The loves of

156
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:35,440
Speaker 1: my life are abby, my children, coffee boundaries, okay. Um.

157
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,800
Speaker 1: So the fact that I walked into a room and

158
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,440
Speaker 1: you and I were were in um barefoot, and I

159
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,240
Speaker 1: remember I didn't want to go back to the stage.

160
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 1: I remember just thinking can we just stay here on

161
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,680
Speaker 1: the couch forever? Like can we not go to this

162
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 1: where all the thousands of people out there and we

163
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,160
Speaker 1: had to go by. But I think it's so cool

164
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:59,200
Speaker 1: when you were saying that that sometimes that happens and

165
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,200
Speaker 1: you just know the energy is there and you know

166
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 1: this is going to be a person, and we celebrate

167
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 1: that right when that happens, And it just makes me

168
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,320
Speaker 1: think we should also honor it when the opposite happens.

169
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,920
Speaker 1: MM hmm, you know what I mean. Like, we don't

170
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:23,280
Speaker 1: feel need to explain why that happened with us or

171
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 1: why the energy was just perfect. We don't say, oh,

172
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,679
Speaker 1: well are you're You're such a good person and I'm

173
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: such a good person, and so that's why this happened.

174
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 1: We just honor the kids of collective energy that was matched.

175
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 1: But like when we don't feel that energy with someone,

176
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:41,920
Speaker 1: we always feel like we have to explain in a

177
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,280
Speaker 1: million ways or blame a person's personality or blame it

178
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 1: on our personality when all the people's energy just aren't

179
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 1: right for each other. M h you know what I need? Yeah,

180
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 1: and and that that's okay. But again, I think that

181
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 1: speaks to us always having been told we have to

182
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 1: be nice, we have to be welcoming, we have to smile.

183
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 1: Think about when you watch somebody tell their their three

184
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 1: year old child that they have to hug a relative

185
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: who's unfamiliar to that child, and then that little baby

186
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: learns that they're feeling of I don't want to in

187
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,760
Speaker 1: their body, doesn't matter because you're gonna hug this person

188
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,400
Speaker 1: because it's nice. We're taught from such an early age

189
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,520
Speaker 1: to go against our own instincts, and then especially heaven forbid,

190
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 1: as women, if we don't like something or we just

191
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 1: don't feel free or complete around someone, well then we

192
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 1: must be she's a bit if she thinks that, you know.

193
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,680
Speaker 1: And the the extra heavy messages, I mean, the studies

194
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 1: about like even even awake parents, okay, even parents, that

195
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 1: we are doing it equally when when they're studied. The

196
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 1: number of social cues that parents give to little girls

197
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,680
Speaker 1: versus little boys about being nice, a tilling about being likable,

198
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 1: like those that we have about and it's not because

199
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,760
Speaker 1: we're bad people as parents. It's because we were raised

200
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,360
Speaker 1: in a culture that taught us a million different ways

201
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 1: that little girls will only be loved and accepted if

202
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 1: they are accommodating and sweet, and and they abandoned themselves

203
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,200
Speaker 1: in order to not rock the boat, and they they

204
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,560
Speaker 1: cause it, allow themselves to have constant inner conflict, so

205
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 1: outer conflict. M So that's what we do. We want

206
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 1: our kids to be accepted, So we subconsciously passed these

207
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: expectations onto our little girls. And then this is what

208
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 1: I find fascinating said it, and I can't wait to

209
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,559
Speaker 1: get your take on it. The amount of people who

210
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 1: say to me, okay, And they say this with all

211
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,719
Speaker 1: good intention. I want to support women. I want to

212
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,240
Speaker 1: support women like you do. I want to love women, GiB,

213
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,640
Speaker 1: I want to whatever. But the women are always the

214
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 1: ones stabbing in the back. The women are always the

215
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 1: ones talking behind my back. The women are always And

216
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,560
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting because I actually know what

217
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,439
Speaker 1: they're saying, like I understand, like it's not We can't

218
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,520
Speaker 1: be just like pretend that that's never true as feminists,

219
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,880
Speaker 1: like we can't be like, oh they don't, that's never

220
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 1: happened to me because of courts. And that's okay, right,

221
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,319
Speaker 1: we all know that that has happened us. But I

222
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 1: wonder if if women would stab each other in the

223
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,599
Speaker 1: back less, if as little girls we were allowed to

224
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 1: stab each other in the face more, right, It's like

225
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 1: directness and transparency and just saying how you feel much

226
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 1: more allowed in little boys, and it r is in

227
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,839
Speaker 1: little girls. Right. We are trained constantly to swallow it

228
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 1: and smile, swallow it and smile, be pleasant and be pleasant.

229
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,000
Speaker 1: But we're just as human, right, So what happens when

230
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 1: a little when a person is swallowing it and smiling

231
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,280
Speaker 1: all the time, is it always comes outside wace right. Well,

232
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 1: the way I think about it, the image that comes

233
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: to mind for me, and I don't know why because

234
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: I don't scuba dive, so literally, I don't know why

235
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: this happened. But you know, like scuba divers wear those

236
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 1: oxygen tanks on their backs, and those tanks are pressurized,

237
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 1: and if you put too much oxygen in a tank,

238
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,960
Speaker 1: it will explode. And and so when anything is overly pressurized,

239
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,760
Speaker 1: it blows a gasket, it blows a leak, like pipes

240
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 1: in a house will burst, and then the basement floods

241
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,880
Speaker 1: because there's too much volume for the amount of space.

242
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 1: And I think that's what happens to girls, and that's

243
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,240
Speaker 1: what happens to women. We've been forced to do exactly

244
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: what you said, Swallow it, Swallow it's swallow it, swallow it,

245
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,880
Speaker 1: and we get so overfilled that then these things. It's

246
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 1: like when the daggers shoot out of the woman's eyes

247
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 1: at someone, that's not even about the person she's looking at.

248
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,680
Speaker 1: When when you express anger or frustration about something or

249
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: you think someone is annoying, it might not even be

250
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,000
Speaker 1: about them. It's about the fact that you've not been

251
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 1: able to talk about how someone hurt you years ago

252
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 1: for so long that now you think everyone is kind

253
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 1: of a dick head who hurts you. You know, little

254
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 1: little boys just like punch each other on the playground

255
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 1: and then they're over it. They're allowed to do more

256
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 1: of that. M So, so what why are women more

257
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 1: direct because they're trained not to be direct? Well, and

258
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 1: this is exactly where and this was supposed to be

259
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,400
Speaker 1: my first question, but ha ha, I love that. I

260
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 1: thought i'd have a plan. This is where I want

261
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 1: to go back and ask you to tell me the

262
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,040
Speaker 1: story of the Cheetah and the Pink Bunny, because you

263
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 1: referenced it earlier and I think it's such a soul

264
00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:01,320
Speaker 1: shaking ah ha moment, providing way to start a book.

265
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 1: And you open untamed with this story. And then it

266
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 1: made sense to me because when you sent me your book,

267
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 1: you sent me this beautiful note and you said to me, sister,

268
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: you are a goddamn cheetah, and it made me cry.

269
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 1: And I didn't even know the story yet, but I like,

270
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 1: I choked up when I looked at the note. So

271
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 1: something in me knew exactly what you meant, because I

272
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 1: think it's something that's in all of us, So will

273
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: you tell the people at home about cheetahs. I was

274
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 1: looking for a metaphor, okay, because I had just gone

275
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 1: through this experience which I wrote about and Untamed, which

276
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 1: is that I was in a broken marriage with a

277
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 1: good man. Okay, that is a very tricky place for

278
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: a woman to be because we're supposed to just be

279
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,120
Speaker 1: grateful for good enough, right. I just kept trying to

280
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 1: make it good enough. I just kept trying to do

281
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 1: all the right things I was supposed to do to

282
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 1: have forgiveness just like fall to me, you know, falling

283
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: my head from the sky and feel better. But I

284
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 1: was angry all the time. It's angry all the time,

285
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 1: and I and I just felt this like longing, this

286
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,679
Speaker 1: nagging inside of me that just was this constant question

287
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: like wasn't it supposed to be more beautiful than this?

288
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 1: Wasn't it supposed to be more beautiful than this? You know?

289
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 1: And then I met Abby and um and that story

290
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: is in and Untamed. But after we've been together for

291
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 1: a little while, I so we took our daughters to

292
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,120
Speaker 1: the Safari park and we went to this thing called

293
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 1: the Cheetah Run. Okay, And so we're on the side

294
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: of this like race track kind of thing, and we're

295
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,919
Speaker 1: waiting for this Cheetah run to start. The kids are

296
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 1: so excited. There's all these families out and this zookeeper

297
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 1: comes out and she's holding the leash of a labrador. Okay,

298
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,400
Speaker 1: so I'm right away like, um, okay, I'm not a scientist.

299
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 1: But if she tells my kids that this labrador is

300
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: a cheetah, I'm getting a refund, right, I'm getting my OA.

301
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: So she says, okay, kids, do you think that this

302
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,919
Speaker 1: um this is Tabitha the cheetah And the kids are

303
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,880
Speaker 1: like no, and she says, you're right. This is Mini. Tabitha,

304
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 1: the Cheetah's best friend. Tabitha was born into captivity, was

305
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 1: born into the zoo, so we raised Tabitha alongside Mini

306
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:28,920
Speaker 1: so that Nni could team Tabitha. And now Tabitha wants

307
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 1: to do everything that Mini does. So first Mini is

308
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: gonna run the Cheetah run while Tabitha watches, and then

309
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,639
Speaker 1: Tabitha will run it. Okay, So this lab lines up

310
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 1: on the starting line. This little weird jeep thing has

311
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: a pink stuffed bunny tied to it. The jeep takes

312
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: off Mini the lab cheese. Is this dirty pink bunny

313
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,719
Speaker 1: across the finish line? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. Then they

314
00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 1: pulled Tabitha. Okay, Tabitha. The cheetah is the most gorgeous, huge, terrifying,

315
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 1: majestic creature. She's like stalking her way to the starting line.

316
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: Her muscles are rippling beneath her. For the crowds like

317
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:18,119
Speaker 1: all quiet, and the zookeeper says, go, and this gorgeous,

318
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: majestic wild animal chases this dirty stuffed pink bunny down

319
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 1: this well worn narrow path that she's been doing every hour,

320
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 1: every day since she was born. And the crowd is clapping, yeah, yayayay,

321
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: and while the clouds crowd is clapping. So I just

322
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 1: I just got, oh my god, this is it. This

323
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: is what I have been doing. If it is possible

324
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 1: for a wild animal like a cheetah to be tamed

325
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 1: into forgetting who she is m hm, to be tamed

326
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: into spending her entire one, wild and precious life chasing

327
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: somebody else's dirty pink funnies, then that can happen to

328
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: a woman too, right. That's when I figured out, Oh,

329
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 1: all of these things. Be a good girl, be a

330
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: good mom, be pretty, be accommodating, be perfect, be um,

331
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 1: don't be ambitious, don't be All of these ideals and

332
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: should and shouldn't, I mean, all of the ones that

333
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: had to do with religion and faith for me, and

334
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: they have just gender and have just sexuality. All of

335
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 1: these cages I have been in, I just I just

336
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 1: started to see them as Oh, these are the dirty

337
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: pink funnies that somebody else planted for me a long

338
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: time ago. And the reason why I am exhausted, and

339
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm overwhelmed and underwhelmed and I don't

340
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 1: feel like I am living my true purpose is because

341
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm chasing somebody else's dirty pink funnence m m. And

342
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: then so okay. So the zookeeper puts Tabitha away in

343
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: like this big field, and she comes back and she says,

344
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 1: are there any questions? And this little girl raises her

345
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: hand and she says, is Tabitha sad? Doesn't Tabatha missed wild?

346
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: And the zookeeper says, oh no, honey, she was born here.

347
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: This is a good, safe life for Tabitha. She doesn't

348
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: even know any better. And my daughter is heading next

349
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 1: to me, and she nudges me, right, and she points

350
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: at Tabitha and in this bigger field, So Tabitha is

351
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: like a different creature. Okay, she's she's just she her.

352
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: She's like sit standing up like her her neck just

353
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: has grown six inches, and she's stalking the periphery of

354
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: the field, just like looking out beyond the field at

355
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: some place we can't see. It's like she looks completely

356
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 1: majestic now, like in a little scary and tishe goes money.

357
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: She turned wild again. God, I have a child, And

358
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: I just looked at her and thought, Okay, I don't

359
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: believe you, zookeeper. I don't believe that she doesn't know better,

360
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: Like this might be all she's ever seen, but she

361
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: knows somewhere. Like if we could talk to that Sheeta,

362
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: she would say, I don't know what's wrong with me.

363
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: I know that all there is is cages and dirty

364
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: pink funnies and labs. But inside me, I feel like

365
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: I was meant to sleep under starless skies. I feel

366
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: like I was meant to hunt and kill. I just

367
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: feel like it was all supposed to be more beautiful

368
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: than this. M Right, there's something by that animal that

369
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: knows better this is the voice of longing, right, this

370
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 1: is the voice that we all have that looks at

371
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: our lives and our relationships and our communities and our

372
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 1: nation and our world and says, I know this is

373
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: all I've ever seen, but I just have a hunch

374
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be more beautiful than this. Then comes

375
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: the universal gas lighting of women right then, and we say, no,

376
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: I just don't think this is right. I don't feel

377
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 1: I feel like this isn't right. Then the whole world goes, oh,

378
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: just be grateful, Just be grateful. You're crazy, that's crazy,

379
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: that's crazy. She's crazy, right. That's why the last line

380
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: of that was you're not crazy, You're a goddamn cheetah hm.

381
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: Because because had Tabitha been able to say, I have

382
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: these hunches, I have these this vision that it's supposed

383
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: to be more beautiful than this. Actually remembering her her

384
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: destiny that was that was the wilderness, the rest of

385
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 1: the world would have said to her, don't be crazy.

386
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: This is what your life is, your lab, your lab.

387
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: We trained you to be a lab. Right. And that's

388
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: what happened to me, man, I mean, that's what happens

389
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: to all of us. We are born wild individual selves,

390
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: and then because of the way civilization is set up,

391
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: we begin to be assimilated into zeus. Right. We have

392
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: to be assimilated into families, into social groups, into religions,

393
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: into genders, into sexualities, into nations, right, and the cost

394
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: we have set up systems where the cost of belonging

395
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: is your individuality. If you're a girl, this is how

396
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: you act, and if you don't act this way, you

397
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: will be tribal shamed. You are a Christian, and this

398
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: is what you will believe, and this is what you

399
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: will say. And here are the people you will hate.

400
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: And if you don't, and you dare to admit that

401
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: you don't, you will be tribal shamed. Here's what a

402
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: boy does if you step out of line, right, Here's

403
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: what a straight person does. Here's what an American does.

404
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: God help us follow like the patriotism line. Right. So

405
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: what I am obsessed with right now is and by

406
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: the way, like bless our hurts, we know the way

407
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: that we have survived is to give up some of

408
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: our individuality for the protection of the herd right that

409
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: is evolutionary in us that we need in order to survive.

410
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: We need the protection of the hurt. But now, Sophia,

411
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: I feel like we are actually at this point that

412
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: is a changing time in the history of the world.

413
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is, I think now

414
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: our survival as a species is going to be resisting

415
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: that urge to give our individual voices or belonging. Yes,

416
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: And I think part of it is because not to

417
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: get to you know, conspiracy theory on it, but there

418
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: are big forces in the world that have made a

419
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: lot of money and clutched a lot of power by

420
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: taking advantage of the human instinct to protect the herd.

421
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: And now it's not so much about protecting each other

422
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: so we survive. It's about hoarding and calling that protection.

423
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: If we were really prioritizing our human herd, we would

424
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: have universal health care, We would have the best education

425
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: system in the world. Our kids wouldn't be going to

426
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: school and schools that are jokes, our teachers wouldn't be

427
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: paid the least. We would be doing everything differently if

428
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: we really were saying, hey, this is about our survival,

429
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: but we we market survival of us. We we we

430
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: sort of like put that on like a sweater over

431
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: a skeleton. That is, it's me against you, and I

432
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: think women are leading the reckoning of Oh. No, I can't.

433
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: I can't claim to love my children and not say

434
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: something about other people's children being in cages. I can't

435
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: say that I support women but sit silently when I

436
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: hear women talking poorly about another woman. I can't. We

437
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: we have to align our identity and our values. And

438
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: I think that those things, to your point, come from

439
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,719
Speaker 1: the knowing. We're dropping below the culturing and we're dropping

440
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: into the knowing, and we know there's something out in

441
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: that field, like Tabitha did. Yeah, because and that's and

442
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: and that we call that that all different things, right,

443
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: I mean, I call my knowing that thing inside me

444
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: that always guides me towards the next right thing, right knowing.

445
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: Like when I figured out that none of the answers

446
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: were outside of me, and nobody else freaking knew what

447
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: the hell I was supposed to do, right, so I

448
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: kind of stopped doing what I was trained to do

449
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: as a girl, which is, in every moment uncertainty, look

450
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: outside of myself instead of inside of myself. Right, Because

451
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: boys are trained to look inside themselves for wisdom, and

452
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: little girls are trained to look outside of themselves for

453
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: consensus and permission and approval. Right. We learned that right

454
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: around ten years old, and then we became forty four

455
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: year old women who, in my case are up at

456
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: three a m. Googling what should I do? My husband

457
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: is cheater, but a really good depth. So during that

458
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: time in my life is when I realized, okay, uh,

459
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: nobody else knows what I should do, because nobody else

460
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: has lived this life that I'm living, with my pain

461
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: and my talent and my potential and my purpose and

462
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: my people. Asking other people what they should do, it's

463
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: just what I should do. It's like asking people for

464
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: directions to places they've never been, right, because everyone lives

465
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: is a complete, singular, unrepeatable, unprecedented experiment, right, And there's

466
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: no map. All of our problems come from trying to

467
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: find a map, and there's no map. We're all just

468
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: frequent clueless pioneers. Right. So I figured out if I,

469
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: if I looked inward, if I really got still enough,

470
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: that there was kind of this strange nudge that I

471
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: don't know how to describe because it's beyond language, but

472
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: I describe it and untamed as like this kind of

473
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: liquid gold that if I just like turn inward, or

474
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: long enough, there will be this filling or the nudge

475
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: that will point me towards the next right thing, one

476
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: thing at a time. Right. But I don't think of

477
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: it of Tabitha's turning inward as that. I feel like

478
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: Tabitha's turning inward that place that she that we all

479
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: find inside of ourselves that says it's supposed to be

480
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: more beautiful than this. I think of that as imagination

481
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: might I think imagination is faith to me, And I'll

482
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: try to describe that. Faith to me has absolutely nothing

483
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: to do with religion. It has nothing to do with

484
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: like following a set of rules that were set by

485
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of old white men eons ago to control

486
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: the world. Like, that's not what I mean. What I'm

487
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 1: my favorite definition of faith is the unseen order of things. Okay,

488
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: it's a belief in the unseen order of things. It's

489
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: like there's two orders of things. There's the visible order,

490
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: which is reality, what we would know as the material world,

491
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: like what we see when we turn on the news,

492
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: what's happening out there. And then there's an unseen order,

493
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: and that's inside of us, and that's the part of

494
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: us that when we look at that scene, order, even

495
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: though it's the only thing we've ever known, rejects it.

496
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: It's like, that's not right. The world is not supposed

497
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: to be like that. They're supposed to be less being,

498
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: They're supposed to be more equality. Children are supposed to

499
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: be fed, women are supposed to be like that's because

500
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: we have this unseen order pressing inside of us, inside

501
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: of ours and saying, oh no, it's supposed to be

502
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: more beautiful than this, and we don't trust that, right

503
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: because we look outside inside of ourselves that we think

504
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: that's as good as it's ever going to get. And

505
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: I really believe that imagination or that place we go

506
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: to to look for the unseen order, it's not imagination

507
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: isn't where we go to escape reality. It's where we

508
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: go to discover the truest reality that we were meant

509
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: to bring forth into the world, right, because that's hot,

510
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: that's why we're born. We're all born to bring something

511
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: new to the world that the world has never seen before,

512
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: whether it's an idea or a poem, or a garden

513
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: or a business or a family or whatever it is.

514
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: So what I've started to realize, like whenever people talk

515
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: to me about why they can't do the thing they

516
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 1: were they know to do, you know, because we all

517
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: have that discontent or we have that longing inside of us.

518
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: So people will say to me, you know, I want

519
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: to quit drinking, but I can't. I want to go

520
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: back to nursing school, but you know, a good mom

521
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: is supposed to stay home with her kids. I want

522
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: to leave my emotionally abusive husband, but I made my

523
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: bed and so I have to lie in it. Or

524
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: whenever they talk to me in the language of should

525
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: and shouldn't bad or supposed to or right and wrong,

526
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: what's the right thing to do? All that language is

527
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: in doctor nation. There's no good in bad. That's there's

528
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: no should and shouldn't, there is no right and wrong.

529
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: Those are all culturally concerned right because like example, so

530
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: when when I found out about the infidelity craigs infidelity,

531
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: I lived in this I still do kind of live

532
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: in this wild and diagram where I'm like half feminist,

533
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: half Christian wacko place to be right. And one thing

534
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: that was so fantastic for me is when I started

535
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: looking into what I should do in the in the

536
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: wake of infidelity, Omanists said the right thing to do

537
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: is one thing. Christians said the right thing to do

538
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: was the opposite thing. What I realized is right and wrong.

539
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: They're not pure, they're completely culturally constructed, man made concepts.

540
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: Right keep dogs that keep the masses in the heart.

541
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: That's it. So if you want to know what was

542
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: meant for your one wild impressions like you can't use

543
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: language like that, right and wrong, good and bad, none

544
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: of that matters. So what I started to do is

545
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: when women tell me I can't do this or I

546
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: should or shouldn't'd say, okay, stop. Tell me. What is

547
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: the truest most beautiful story about a marriage you can imagine?

548
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: Tell me I want to I want to go back

549
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: to rchi of people, but I can't because you know

550
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: a good mother. Blah blaa. Okay, what is the truest

551
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: most beautiful story you could tell me about a career? Right?

552
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 1: What is the truest most beautiful story you can tell

553
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: me about your community? What is the truest most beautiful

554
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: story you can tell me about a friendship? And this

555
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: crazy thing happens, which is that when you it's like

556
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: we speak two different languages. We speak the language of

557
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: our indoctrination, with all the cans and cants and shims

558
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: and shouldn'ts. But when you speak to somebody in the

559
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: language of imagination, by saying the words true and beautiful

560
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: in story, continuation shuts down and imagination ignites, because imagination

561
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: is a storyteller, right And everybody the minute you say

562
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: tell me the truest, most beautiful blah blah blah, their

563
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: eyes laid up and they have ideas and they're I'll

564
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: and and it feels like those ideas come from to

565
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: your earlier point, the place where we know what's possible,

566
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: where we know what's good for us. We do so

567
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: much talking about the present and about the journey and

568
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: about the things we've been through in our adult lives

569
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: and how they led us to this place. But as

570
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, talking about the ways that you learned

571
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: so early, I I want to jump back, and it's

572
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: usually again where I start with people. But the forward

573
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 1: motion here has been perfect and delicious. And I wonder

574
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: if you draw the parallel not between Glennon today and

575
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: Glennon who was googling what do I do if my

576
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: husband has been cheating on me for a decade? But

577
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: is also a really good dad. Not not even that

578
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: Glennon of a couple of years ago, but Glennon as

579
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: a little girl. You know, you grew up in Virginia.

580
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: I wonder now when you think about who that little

581
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: girl role was, who was learning all those messages? What?

582
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: What are some of your early memories? What what's the

583
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: beginning for you? Were you always inquisitive and curious and

584
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: good with words? You know? Who who was Glenned at

585
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: eight or ten? Well, it's so sad for me to

586
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: think about this because, um, I don't remember, because I

587
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: became really really suppressed. So I became seriously blieming at

588
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: ten years old and just never got a hold on

589
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: it at all, and so it just got worse and worse.

590
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: And so the next my really all of my growing

591
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: up years, you know, ten until I was twenty five,

592
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: just became a series of diagnoses and therapists, rooms and medications,

593
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: and I was hospitalized my senior year. Uh they my

594
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: parents did. We didn't have the right insurance for an

595
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: eating disorder clinic. So I was actually put in a

596
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: mental institution, like a mental hospital, which by the way,

597
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: I loved. So whenever people feel sorry, for me about that,

598
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, no, no, was way less crazy than

599
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: high school. Okay, I was glad to be there, um

600
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: for real, I was. It was a special place for

601
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: many reasons. But um, I because of that life that

602
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: I had for so long, Sophia, I just I realized,

603
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: not until a few years ago, that my belief about myself,

604
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: my deepest belief, like beneath all the like I'm a feminist,

605
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: is I'm crazy? Like I just think that we kind

606
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: of all have like this root shame belief that happens

607
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: to us when we're little because of some lie we're told.

608
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: And you know, like Abby's Abbey grew up a gay

609
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: kid in the Catholic Church, so we are still like

610
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: yanking at that route belief that she's not loved by

611
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: the divine right that but mine was really I am crazy,

612
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: and I think that I had a lot of evidence

613
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: to support that. Right. Because of that, I stopped trusting myself,

614
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: because because how can a crazy person be trusted not

615
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: to sabotage her life in the lives of her family, right,

616
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: But then I started raising this child, you know all

617
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: about Tish, and she, Sophia is she is just a

618
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: super super sensitive kid. And um and I watched her.

619
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: She cares the most amount about everything about our family,

620
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: about herself, about the world, about her friends, about kids

621
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: who are not she's her heartbreaks very easily, and she

622
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: she lives inside out like she's inside up right. It's transparent,

623
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: Mason Jark Okay, And and what I mean, Sophia, I

624
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 1: would never in a million years look at that child

625
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: and say, oh, she's crazy, she's broken. I think so.

626
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: I think she's like a prophet, you know. And I

627
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: think in most cultures, for as long as time has happened,

628
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: folks who are super sensitive spokes like you, folks like Tish,

629
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: looks like me, and most cultures, we are identified early, right,

630
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: we are noted to be a little bit eccentric, a

631
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: little bit different, but crucial to the tribe survival because

632
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: we are the canaries in the coal mine. Right. We

633
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,479
Speaker 1: are people who can see things that other people can't

634
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: see and who are willing to feel things that other

635
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: people can't feel. So we become in most cultures, you know,

636
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: the shaman or the medicine men and women, or the

637
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: poets or clergy or the you know, the people who

638
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: are standing on the about the Titanic going Iceberg, Iceberg.

639
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: Our culture will we're so held bent on power and

640
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: efficiency and speed at all class that everyone else is

641
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: just like we just want to keep dancing right. So

642
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: it's easier just to dismiss us and call us rather

643
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: than understanding that we are responding appropriately to a broken

644
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: system and that a wise culture would pay close attention

645
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: to the right. So it's revolved all of my ideas

646
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: about myself as a child, which just I am answering

647
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,959
Speaker 1: your question, which is that I parenting tishe has has

648
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: helped me free myself because I realize now that I'm

649
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: not crazy and was never crazy. Well, and that's what

650
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: strikes me when I hear you talk about But the

651
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: revelation really that your daughter is to you is that

652
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: parenting her in a way allows you to reparent yourself,

653
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, you you get to really create a healing

654
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: in reverse. And when I think about the way that

655
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: you love her and the way that you mother her,

656
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: and the Abbey mothers her, and that and that Craig

657
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: shows up for her as her dad, it's such an

658
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: amazing thing to see a kid be so supported. And

659
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: I think it's a about you as a parent and

660
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: B I think we're so lucky to be living in

661
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: this time where we are in this awakening and where

662
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: we do have this this kind of newer access. You know,

663
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: my mom and I were talking about this a little bit,

664
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: and she said, you know, who you're going to get

665
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: to be as a mom is different than who I

666
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to be as a mom. She was like,

667
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: I didn't have all this research. We weren't talking about trauma,

668
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: we weren't doing any of that. We were all kind

669
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: of doing the best we could. And I think about

670
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: the shift in this generation and how big it is

671
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: when when you think about what your resources were were

672
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: you Were you finding solace in books? Were you journaling?

673
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: What were your outlets for all these big feelings that

674
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: you felt when you were titius age that obviously we're

675
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: coming out sideways in this eating disorder. Where where did

676
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: you have an outlet in a good way? Yeah? Well,

677
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: my only I believe that, my only real good outlook.

678
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: I have always instilled you. I was always the kid

679
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: who just was in the corner reading the same over

680
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: and over and over again. Right, That's always who I

681
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: have been, And I just I find it sometimes tricky you.

682
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: You wear your outside on the your inside on the outside,

683
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: which is probably why I felt comfortable right away with

684
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: you in that room. But I usually don't feel that way.

685
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: I usually feel anxious in social situations because I feel like,

686
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: even if it's not to me, it always feels like

687
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: we're acting like I don't understand it. It's like, like

688
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: I seriously can't understand it. I mean, I talked about

689
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: this ad nausea and she's like, what do you mean

690
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: you don't understand? I'm like, I don't like when you

691
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: walk into a room and you're like, hey, how are

692
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: you hy, and then you talk about things like like

693
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: like things that you don't really care about, right, like

694
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 1: I don't know, I can't. I wish that I could

695
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: do it better. But in books it's never like that,

696
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: right It's like people are talking about their deepest, truest

697
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: realist things. So it's kind of like a way to

698
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: get to the insides of people without having to deal

699
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: with the outsides of people. Book. Um, But but I

700
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: think that was a healthy outlet. I don't remember writing

701
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 1: writing a lot when I was really little. I think

702
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: that for me what my coping mess mechanism was was food.

703
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: I think that learned early on that I was supposed

704
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: to be happy. That's how we teach people and everything

705
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: they're gonna feel anger and sadness and jealousy and fear,

706
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: and that all of those things are completely normal, right,

707
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: and that none of those things are bad. Actually, they're

708
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: all just the whole human experience. I didn't know that

709
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: is that part of why? Because you know, you've talked

710
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: publicly about some of this sort of guilt or shame

711
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: that you associated with how you were feeling, because you

712
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: said my childhood was pretty magical, Like why did I

713
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: feel so screwed up? Why did I feel so upset?

714
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: M almost like you didn't feel like you had a

715
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: right to feel your feelings. Yes, And by the way,

716
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: how often do you hear that I did? I have

717
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: a PO box that is just smashed with letters from

718
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: women like every week, and I would say that, and

719
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't think it's exaggerating of Each of these letters

720
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: starts with I know I should I know other people

721
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: have it worse than me, and I know I shouldn't

722
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: feel this way, But I'm just gonna tell you, like,

723
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: we just don't feel like we have the right too

724
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: full human experience if we haven't, if we're not in

725
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: the middle of what we deem like capital t trauma

726
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: at the moment, right, Like we think that we cannot

727
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: be sad because someone else somewhere is sadder, which is

728
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: exactly the same as thing, I can't be happy because

729
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: somewhere else, someone else might be happier somewhere. Like, That's

730
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: just not how any of this works, right, It's not

731
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: like suffering Olympics like we actually are all, no matter

732
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: what circumstances were in are gonna experience the whole human drama. Right,

733
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: So what does happen? I mean, I imagine your parents.

734
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: We're afraid, like you said, they didn't know what to

735
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: do with you. Where do you put this kid with

736
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: all these big feelings, this this behavior snowballs, you know,

737
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: through high school into your twenties and then tish then

738
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: everything changes. So what how do we how do we

739
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: get from teenager at the mental hospital to young mom

740
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what the hell she's gonna do? Yeah,

741
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, Well, I um, I found out that

742
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: I was pregnant on Mother's Day when I was twenty five,

743
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: and I was, um so freaking sick. I can't imagine

744
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: that I wasn't close to death. I mean I was had.

745
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: I was drinking myself to blackout every single night for

746
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: years before that, and I had burnt every single bridge

747
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 1: in my life, all my relationships, all of it. And

748
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: I found myself on about from floor holding a positive

749
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: pregnancy test, and it was one of those moments. It

750
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: was it was one of those imagination moments. It was

751
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: a tabitha moment. It was like, Okay, I see all

752
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: evidence on the outside of me, right, I see what

753
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: I see, what a ship show I have created. I

754
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 1: see that there is clearly no worse candidate for motherhood

755
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: on the planet Earth. And still like there's something inside

756
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: of me that is saying yes, Like regardless of all

757
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: of the evidence on the outside of me that is

758
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: saying no, I feel this. It was like how I felt.

759
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: The two strongest moments I felt this are when I

760
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: found out a pregnant Chase and when I'm when I

761
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: saw Abby and so I decided to get sober that

762
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: day that I found out that I was pregnant. M

763
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: So I called my sister from the bathroom floor. She

764
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: literally came to my house and picked me up off

765
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,919
Speaker 1: the bathroom floor and too, you know, my first recovery meeting.

766
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: And then that's what began the beautiful, terrible process of

767
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: early recovery, which is a freaking nightmare and is an

768
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: and is the best thing on earth and everything that

769
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 1: I know I learned in those few first years, right,

770
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: and what happened. The way that I got from that

771
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: kid who didn't know how to use for big feelings

772
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: and sensitivity to the person I am now is art.

773
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: Art is the art and activism. So I learned in

774
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: those recovery meetings that there is this way to heal

775
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: which has to do with honesty and truth and sharing.

776
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: And then um, I learned that this this sentivity that

777
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: I had as a child that led me into numbing

778
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: and alcoholism, I could also use the exact same sensitivity

779
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: to be a really good artist. The beginning part, the

780
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: thing that you touch on in recovery that to me

781
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: feels like such an important seed. And I just I

782
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: feel like there's people who are listening to us have

783
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: this conversation going, But what what does that mean? The

784
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: thing that you learn to turn into your art? What's

785
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: the seed in recovery? What's the beginning? What's the thing

786
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: you have to say in that room that starts your

787
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: new life. I don't know if there's anything that you

788
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: have to say in that new room that starts your

789
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: new life. I think it's something that you have to

790
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: say to yourself. I don't believe in having long discussions

791
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: with people about whether or not they should get sober.

792
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: I really don't, because I think it's all horseship, because

793
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: I know that everyone knows. I know that like all

794
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: of those conversations, a circular conversations about do I have

795
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: a problem? Do I have a problem, Like people who

796
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: don't have a dreaming don't spend all day wondering if

797
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: they have a drinking problem. Okay, okay. If you are

798
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: a person who spends all day wondering if maybe you

799
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: have a drinking problem, probably okay. And all I care

800
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: about is that there is I don't care if people

801
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: drink or not. For God's sake. What I do think

802
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: is tragic is when people have something in their life,

803
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: whether boozed or certain relationship or whatever it is, that

804
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 1: is keeping them from freedom, that is keeping them living

805
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: as fully and beautifully and with as much joy and

806
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: freedom as we were all designed to write. When people

807
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: have a in their life that they know in their

808
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: gut is in the way of them and the life

809
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: they were supposed to be living. That's the moment that matters, right,

810
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: that's the moment. And we don't do the thing. We

811
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: don't get rid of the thing because we're scared, because

812
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: it's usually something that keeps us from facing the truth.

813
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: And I remember being at that, I wrote and untamed.

814
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 1: I was at my fifth recovery meeting and I finally

815
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: and I said, it was the first time I spoke

816
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: at a recovery meeting. And what they don't tell you

817
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: about sobriety. Okay, I see what happens is when you're

818
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: really bad at it, everyone in your life wants you

819
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: to get sober, desperately, okay, because you're ruining everyone's life, right, Okay,

820
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: we ruined everyone's lives. Okay, So everyone wants us to

821
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: get sober so bad, and so by the time we

822
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: finally say okay, i'll try, we think it's going to

823
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,240
Speaker 1: be some promised land of joy because everyone has asked

824
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: us for so long to get there. But it's terrible,

825
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: it's awful and horrible and sucks. Okay, early sobriety hurts

826
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 1: so bad. It's like you've been purposefully frozen forever and

827
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: now you're slowly defrosting, and everything everything hurts, okay, And

828
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: then you just all day you just think, oh, this

829
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: is why I started drinking in the first place. That

830
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: all right, I didn't work, but I see why I

831
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: did that. And so I just was so freaking miserable

832
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: the first week. And on the sixth day, I went

833
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: to my fifth meeting and I finally stood up and

834
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: I said, I am Glennan, and I have been sober

835
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: for six days, and I feel awful, and I am

836
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: afraid that what is wrong with me wasn't the booze,

837
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: that what is wrong with me was beneath the booze,

838
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: that what is wrong with me is actually me. Praid

839
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: that that that everyone else has some kind of secret

840
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: of life that I don't have, because it feels like

841
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: life is so much harder for me than everyone else.

842
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: And that's all thank you. And this woman came up

843
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: after after and she said, Okay, honey, I just want

844
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: to tell you something that someone else told me in

845
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: early sobriety, and that is that if there's any secret

846
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: to life, the secret is that life is just really hard,

847
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: not because you're doing it wrong, but because you're finally

848
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: doing it right. What you're doing now is your experience being,

849
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: you're experiencing being fully human. That what you're doing is

850
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: you're feeling all your feelings. And the thing is that

851
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: all feelings are for feeling, all of them, even the

852
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: hard ones. It's just that they hurt, and that's why

853
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: so few people do it. And what I had learned

854
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: and after that meeting, I thought, Okay, fine, I'm gonna try.

855
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna try to show up for all of it.

856
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to feel all of my feelings and

857
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: see what happens. And what I know. What I learned

858
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: is that I thought that feeling my hard feelings to

859
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 1: kill me, which is why I avoided it for so long.

860
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: And this magical thing happens when you just stopped numbing,

861
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: which is that you realize that none of your hard

862
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: feelings kill you ever. Actually you know all of it.

863
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: And what's struck me in my own parallel realizations about

864
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: this in different forms. You know, I didn't I didn't

865
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: have a problem with eating or with booze. I had

866
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: a problem with trying to save people, and being in

867
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: relationships with men who were very bad for me. And

868
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: what I realized about the painful feelings, the things I

869
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: didn't think I had a right to feel because my

870
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,959
Speaker 1: life was so much better than so many other people.

871
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: It's not perfect, But who am I when there is

872
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: this suffering in the world? You Know? What I've realized

873
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: is that every time I refused to feel a bad

874
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 1: feeling or a negative feeling or pain, or to say

875
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: I think there's something better for me than this, I

876
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 1: was turning my back on myself. And I would never

877
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: turn my back on you in a hard moment. I

878
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 1: would never turn my back on a child in a

879
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: hard moment. Why was I turning my back on myself?

880
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 1: And then when I think about the oxygen tank idea,

881
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: I realized I was shoving every single available molecule of

882
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: feeling into only the happy feelings, only the good feelings.

883
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: And then my good feelings felt like they were going

884
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: to explode and maybe kill everyone. And and there was

885
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: this whole tank for sadness that was empty, but it

886
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: wasn't actually empty. The tank was still sitting there. I

887
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: was just ignoring it. And and something really magical and Yes,

888
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: painful and awful happens when you finally acknowledge all the feelings.

889
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: When when your body is full of pins and needles

890
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: because you're defrosting, is that you're like, oh, look how

891
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: much bigger my body is. Look how much more space

892
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: I have for all my molecules. Because I'm not just

893
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: trying to be on the happy side. It's like, it's

894
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 1: like when you get to spread out, and you know

895
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: how rare this is because you have a gigantic family,

896
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 1: when you get to be in your bed alone and

897
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: you can put like a hand and a foot in

898
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: every corner and spread out, like that's what coming home

899
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: to all our feelings feels like. To me, you're like

900
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: a little lonely in the bed, but you can also

901
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: spread out in it, in your own skin and see

902
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: what's in there. Well, that's so good. And you also,

903
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: I think like what we're both what we both figured

904
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: out is that number one, we don't have anything figured out,

905
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: but which is wonderful. Like, I don't trust anybody who

906
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: thinks they haven't figured out. If you're not even wise

907
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: enough to know you don't new ship, then I can't

908
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: mess with you. I'm like, no, I know things that

909
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: are true for us, like about what we deserve, and

910
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: I know what the knowing means, and you gave me

911
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 1: the words for that, but I don't know anything else,

912
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 1: like about anything. But here's what I love in a woman. Okay.

913
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: What you just said is what we figure out is

914
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: that all of these things we use to numb ourselves

915
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: from pain to jump out of pain. Okay, So for me, food, booze,

916
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: drugs for you, codependent relationships for for other people. There's

917
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: a million ones that are just more socially acceptible, okay,

918
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: like perfect them or snark or um rage or or

919
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: um scroll scroll scroll scroll, like all of these things

920
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: we use, I don't develop a relationship with myself. And

921
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: then we wonder, well, that is what we do? Know

922
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: that we are women who have stopped abandoning ourselves so

923
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: trust ourselves. And so much of that has to do

924
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: with just sitting through the pain and not running away,

925
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: just staying with yourself. Mm hmm, right, and what else?

926
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: We spend the first half of our lives being convinced

927
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: by everyone on earth that we can't trust ourselves, and

928
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: then we spend a while figuring out that we can,

929
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: and then we get to live. So if getting sober

930
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: for you was the beginning of coming back to life,

931
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: was beginning to put yourself out in the world, was

932
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: that the next piece? Was that the next reclamation because

933
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: momastery change so much for so many people. But that

934
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: came because of a Facebook post. Yeah, well it came up.

935
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: The Facebook was stories ridiculous. I mean, I just couldn't

936
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: get to meetings because I was just dripping with children.

937
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: And I noticed these people were doing this thing on

938
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: Facebook called the twenty Things. Do you remember that. I

939
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: was like lists themselves, and so I was like, oh cool,

940
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: I could do that. I could write about myself for

941
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: twenty list. I could do that. But I didn't freaking

942
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,479
Speaker 1: read anybody else's list first, So I just wrote mine

943
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: the way I talk, Okay, So like, so I wrote

944
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: it out and I left and I came back to

945
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: my computer an hour later, and they were like, my

946
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: list had been shared all of these gazillions of times

947
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: from my private page, and I had like sixteen new

948
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,959
Speaker 1: emails in my email box, and I had a bunch

949
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: of calls in a row from my sister, which is

950
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: always a sign that I've done something that is inappropriate.

951
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: And I required a lot of clean up on her part.

952
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: So so my number six was I'm a recovering food

953
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: and alcohol addict, but I still find myself missing Booze

954
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: in the same twisted way we can miss people who

955
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: repeatedly beat us and le us for dead. It's true

956
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: to me. But my friend Lisa's number six was my

957
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: favorite snacker is humis okay? So that we weren't doing this,

958
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: But can I tell you that this is why, this

959
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: is why I always knew you were my person, because

960
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do the Hummus number six.

961
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: I only know how to do the Glennon number six.

962
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: And I made a joke recently which was my first

963
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: like aha thing. I was with some friends at one

964
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: in in one of the environments where I feel the

965
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: most insane, which is like events in my industry. I

966
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: don't know how to socialize and do the small talk.

967
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: So I ran into a friend who was really going

968
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: through something. He was not I'm not my story to

969
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: tell anyway, he was really going through a thing and

970
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: there was a little group of us talking and he

971
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you know, with all this ship going

972
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: on in my life, I just don't know how to

973
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: talk to anybody here, and I said, well, my uh

974
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: tendency is to want to ask a question that is

975
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: so probably inappropriate at the Golden globes that then I

976
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: have to swallow my own tongue to keep myself from

977
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 1: doing it. But when people say what's up with you?

978
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: I want to be like, you know, same old, same old.

979
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: How are you are you processing your childhood trauma? How

980
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: are things going? Like that's what I want to talk about.

981
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do what what did you

982
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: get at the order of table? I don't get it?

983
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: So thank you for a very honest number six. You know.

984
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: So I had that feeling of wanting to swell right

985
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: like that golden I was in my kids playroom, like

986
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: I just was like, oh my god, what did I do? Um?

987
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: And I just remember feeling like, oh my god, how

988
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: do I take it back? I called my sister. She's like,

989
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: you can't take it back. It's the interwet up, like,

990
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: you can't take it back. So I was just embarrassed

991
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: and felt overly vulnerable. But then I started opening these emails, Sophia, No,

992
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, I'm telling you what they were. They were

993
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: from people who I had known my entire life, but

994
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: who I had freaking known because we were so busy

995
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: talking about the goddamn hummus and how perfect everything was

996
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: and how shiny and wonderful we were, that we had

997
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: never brought to each other the heavy stuff that we

998
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: are actually meant to help each other carry, right, And

999
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: what I learned in those emails they just said you

1000
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 1: know me too, me too a million different ways like

1001
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: me too. And so I think how you get from

1002
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: that to the writing is like there's just these moments

1003
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 1: in your life where you figure out, oh, this is

1004
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: something I could do, Like I'm just this little person,

1005
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: this one person, but this thing I just did seems

1006
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: to like have helped people. Like first all helped me

1007
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: because I like this, like I can see myself, I

1008
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: can feel myself, I feel healthy when I'm doing this,

1009
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: I feel strong, I feel visible, I feel and also

1010
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: it seems to be doing something for other people. So

1011
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: that's like then diagram was like a treasure map. It

1012
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: was just like oh, like you know, like the little

1013
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: tinklies went off inside me. I was like, this is

1014
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: this could be my thing and what a weird thing. Like,

1015
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: So so what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna

1016
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: say a bunch of crazy ship on the interwew that no, Like,

1017
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: I knew there was an art to it, and I

1018
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: knew that like truth telling could be this incredible key

1019
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: that could unlock people. Not only did it help was

1020
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: it a service to people, but it helped me feel

1021
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: more human and it helped me find my people, right

1022
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 1: because I could be at sixty four thousand cocktail parties

1023
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: and I will never know who my people are because

1024
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: we're not talking about anything that helps you find your people,

1025
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: but like one honest essay and your people show up.

1026
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So that's how I got to the writing

1027
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 1: thing was just like and then so after that Facebook

1028
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: thing I started, I promised myself I was going to

1029
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 1: write every single morning, because you know the mornings are

1030
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: and so I started sending a group of friends an

1031
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: email every morning that was just my thoughts about the world. Okay,

1032
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: So these poor people like I would send pagelong emails

1033
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 1: each morning, and then if they didn't write back to me,

1034
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: I would ping that throughout the day and just be like, Hi,

1035
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: just wondering if you had any thoughts about my thoughts. Okay. Finally,

1036
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: my friend Joanna sent me an email with a link

1037
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: to how to start a blog, and she was like, gee,

1038
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: this is what people do have as many thoughts and

1039
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: feelings as you do. Bless Joanna. Yeah, so it's a

1040
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: family joke. My writing career started because my friends did

1041
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: not want to read my ship anymore. Like that is.

1042
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: And then my sister, who you know, is my life,

1043
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: she decided after a really hard divorce right about that time,

1044
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: that she was gonna quit her corporate job, moved to

1045
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: Rwanda and spend her life prosecuting uh people who have

1046
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: committed sex crimes against children. Okay, that's what she was

1047
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: gonna do. And she right before she left, she brought

1048
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: me a new laptop because my laptop was like total

1049
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: crap and it would turn off every twenty five minutes

1050
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 1: so I couldn't write. So she brought me a new

1051
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: laptop and this letter that said, I'm going to go

1052
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 1: do this thing that I have to do, and you're

1053
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 1: gonna stay here and you're gonna do this thing that

1054
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: you have to do, which is you, which is that

1055
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: you were made to write, And you're gonna sit down

1056
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: every morning you to open this computer and you're going

1057
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: to write with the voice of the person who wrote

1058
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: that Facebook list, and I'm telling you do for the

1059
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: next year, and so I do what my sister tells

1060
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: me to do. So that's how I started writing monstery

1061
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: mm hmm. And then what's the experience, what's the experience

1062
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: of building out that community, of realizing that you had

1063
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: created a homing beacon for so many people. It was beautiful,

1064
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: it was wonderful. It just I sat down every morning

1065
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: and I wrote, and I promised myself. My rule for

1066
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: myself was that I would post publish every single day

1067
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: after an hour and a half, no matter what. And

1068
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: I think that that saved me from perfectionism, which is

1069
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: what keeps most people from putting their art out in

1070
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: the world. Right. I think had I not had that

1071
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: role for myself, I would have decided every day that

1072
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't good enough, and then I'll just fix the

1073
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: next day, and then I'll fix it the next day.

1074
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 1: But I saved myself from that with that rule. People

1075
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: started coming in, you know, and so I never I

1076
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: still to this day, would never know. I never promoted

1077
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: my blog anywhere. I never had an ad on my blog.

1078
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: I never did any any of the things that you're

1079
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: supposed to do, and it just kept growing and growing,

1080
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: and then it turned into Together Rising, of course, which

1081
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 1: is really what I think. Every word that I write

1082
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: or speak is really about Together Rising, which is our

1083
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: nonprofit that is run by all women and is just

1084
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: become the leading American organization for reunifying families at the border.

1085
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: For um DO, it's still still um serving and dealing

1086
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: with the refugee crisis and more importantly to us just

1087
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: as just first responders just every day just meeting the

1088
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: needs of women and children and we're in crisis. And

1089
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, I think so that what I've seen and

1090
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: when I believe is that life gives you these little quirks, talents,

1091
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 1: whatever they are, and then and then you start showing

1092
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: up for your talent or your art. But really it's

1093
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: just all to get to the big game of service, right.

1094
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: It's like it's like the art is just like the

1095
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 1: stream that gets you to the big river. Like anybody

1096
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: who I know and love and respect in the world

1097
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: is somebody who has thought that they were really like, oh,

1098
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: I'm good at this thing, and this is what I'm

1099
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: gonna do, But that's not the thing, Like that's the

1100
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:45,919
Speaker 1: thing that gets you to the thing, right, Yeah, it's

1101
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know how to describe it. It's

1102
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: like the art is just the hook. It's just the hook.

1103
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: And then you end up at the big game, which

1104
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: is service and activism and and usually first it's philanthropy, right,

1105
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: So you just start thinking, Oh, I'm just supposed to

1106
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 1: like save people, supposed to help people. That's what I'm

1107
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 1: supposed to do, right, So that's what happened. We just

1108
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: started reading so many stories and people were suffering and

1109
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: I couldn't put food on the table, couldn't buy diapers,

1110
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: couldn't do this and that. So we started matching up people,

1111
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: you know, raising money for hurting people. And then over

1112
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,759
Speaker 1: a long period of time, we just started asking ourselves

1113
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: harder questions like why are these people suffering so much?

1114
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: Like why are these people who are working so hard

1115
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 1: having so much trouble making ends meet? Right? Like? What

1116
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 1: is want? And so that? And right around that time,

1117
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 1: I read this quote that said you can only pull

1118
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: people out of the river for so long until you

1119
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 1: have to look up river and figure out who's pushing

1120
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: them in h So that's when I started to look

1121
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: deeper and ask the right questions and realize that wherever

1122
01:08:55,280 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: there's great suffering, there is always great profit. Yes, right,

1123
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: so yes there are. We're we are at the other

1124
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,639
Speaker 1: rising like hand over fists, trying to help people who

1125
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 1: have been traumatized by um school shootings or by the

1126
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: unbelievably harmful and traumatic drills that they're now doing with

1127
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: all kids, all these people suffering. Why, Okay, let's look

1128
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: up river and look at the n r A, and

1129
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 1: let's look at the politicians who are paid off by

1130
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 1: the n r A, because that profit is going for

1131
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: this suffering. Okay, we can continue to build l G

1132
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: B t Q centers all over the country for kids

1133
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 1: who have been kicked out of their house. We can

1134
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: do mentorship, we can do. But what what we also

1135
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: have to do is look up river at the religious

1136
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 1: institutions who are poisoning people from creating the shame that

1137
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: is then causing these families to kick the kids out. Right,

1138
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: we can we can just over and over again, every

1139
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: problem we have, we can look up river and realize.

1140
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 1: So so it's like art led me to philanthropy, and

1141
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: then philanthropy led me to activism, because anybody is a

1142
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 1: philanthropist for long figures out that you can't. You can't

1143
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: stay justin philanthropy because with power, like oh, the people

1144
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 1: up river can keep throwing them in and profiting because

1145
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: they've got these other people just pulling them out all

1146
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 1: the time their partner. You become their partner if you aren't. Also,

1147
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 1: it's like it has to be end both. You have

1148
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 1: to be pulling people out of the river and you

1149
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 1: have to be constantly looking up river and giving living

1150
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 1: hell to the people who are pushing them. Yes, yes,

1151
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:42,719
Speaker 1: And I think that's why when people ask why women

1152
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: like us are so political, that's always the question, right,

1153
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: And I like to put it in quotes, and then

1154
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: I realized people listening at home can't see me doing that.

1155
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm literally air quoting. And I'm like when people say, like, well,

1156
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 1: what do you think gives you the right to be political?

1157
01:10:56,439 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 1: Because everything is politics. We're alive, we're breathing. If if

1158
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: we're not active politically for each other, if we're not

1159
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: talking about reforming these broken systems, if we're not talking

1160
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 1: about making sure we're electing people who are going to

1161
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,799
Speaker 1: keep the air clean so that kids don't die of asthma,

1162
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 1: there's there could be nothing more important to me. And

1163
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: and I think you know, in in the in our

1164
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 1: different ways, we took very much the same path. Philanthropy

1165
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: is always the window in And if you really care

1166
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: about the philanthropic cause that gets you up in the morning,

1167
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: you absolutely continue sinking and getting deeper. And then you

1168
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 1: see the systems at play that make this problem exists

1169
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 1: in the first place. It it feels like a in

1170
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 1: a way, like a mirroring of the thing you were

1171
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,879
Speaker 1: discussing earlier, that shift from the external to the internal,

1172
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: because really, in in the personal, the external to the

1173
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 1: internal is a deepening of your knowledge of yourself. And

1174
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: and then when I think about it in the macro,

1175
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: the external, the stuff we get distracted by out here,

1176
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: the shiny surface, we can shift to the internal, which

1177
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: is really in the macro, I think about the internal

1178
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 1: being the roots. Like if we dig down and we

1179
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: look at the roots, it changes everything. And and one

1180
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: of the things I love so much is that you've

1181
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: talked about how the that shift takes you from this

1182
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 1: idea of faith to a true knowing. Everybody has faith.

1183
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: Everybody has faith, that's it's just what you have faith.

1184
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:41,839
Speaker 1: Then I mean I have stopped having faith that anyone

1185
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: else knows what I should do. I stopped having faith

1186
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: that I have stopped believing that I can outsource my

1187
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: faith to a bunch of what they went to school

1188
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,640
Speaker 1: for a few years about God. Like the fact that

1189
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: you can get a really you can get a degree

1190
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: in God. It's still baffling to me. I don't even

1191
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: get me started. But but that's a scary um thing

1192
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 1: to think about. Because we are human beings. Human beings love,

1193
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 1: We want to be independent, and then we don't. We

1194
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 1: fiercely want to be independent, and then we fiercely want

1195
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: someone to tell us what to do. Right, I get completely.

1196
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: And so because of that, it is simpler in some

1197
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: ways to outsource our faith to ministers. It is simpler

1198
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 1: in some ways to outsource our political lives, which just

1199
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: means our lives politicians, it is. It is simpler to

1200
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 1: outsource our life decisions to therapists. Right, all of these

1201
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: things that we do to put faith in things in

1202
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 1: forces outside of ourselves instead of to put I no

1203
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: longer believe that there is like I was absolutely believe

1204
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: that that the God we speak of, that the higher

1205
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: power that we speak of, is inside of ourselves. Right,

1206
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 1: I do not think it's simihere out there, you know,

1207
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 1: standing away from us, judging us from the outside, organizing

1208
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 1: us into groups. Thank you. The deepest, truest parts of

1209
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 1: ourselves are the divine right. And that is why religion,

1210
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: to me, in some of the ways that it's set up,

1211
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 1: is the hardest place to find God. Okay. I think

1212
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 1: that fundamentalist religions are the single hardest place to find God.

1213
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: Insomuch as what we find about fundamentalist religions is that

1214
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 1: the first thing that fundamentalist religions have to do is

1215
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: separate you from yourself, teach you that you cannot trust yourself, okay.

1216
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,560
Speaker 1: And Christian culture, the way that this is done is

1217
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: the pull scripture. I was told from from very young.

1218
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 1: Your heart is wicked. Your heart is wicked. You cannot

1219
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 1: trust yourself, you cannot lean on your own understanding everything was.

1220
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 1: You cannot trust yourself. Okay. So the reason why we

1221
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: train people not to trust themselves is so we will

1222
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,560
Speaker 1: trust them instead. And the scary part of religion is

1223
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 1: that they say to you, trust God, don't trust yourself,

1224
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: trust God. But what they're really saying is don't trust yourself,

1225
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:26,799
Speaker 1: trust us, Trust our system exactly nothing to do with God, nothing, nothing.

1226
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: The difference between religion and God is just night and day.

1227
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: So so what I would say is I am forever

1228
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: suspicious and wary of any institution or group of people

1229
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 1: or person who tries to separate me from myself. I

1230
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 1: will never abandoned myself again. Right. I will abandon every institute,

1231
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 1: I will abandon every relationship. I will abandon every expectation

1232
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: that required, but that require to me to abandon myself.

1233
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 1: M hmm. So and I and I find that so amazing.

1234
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 1: Like so I think, like, talk to my kids about

1235
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 1: this recently. How strange is it that the first right

1236
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 1: of passage we have for human beings is to give

1237
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: themselves away to other people, Like I vow that I

1238
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: will never abandon you to another human being, Like I

1239
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 1: feel like you want to create some kind of writer

1240
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: passage for my sixteen year olds that is just like no, no, no, First,

1241
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 1: you will never abandon yourself, right, and you will never

1242
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 1: choose anything else that requires you to abandon yourself, because

1243
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 1: that will be proof in itself that that's a bad decision.

1244
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. But it's like we have to have before

1245
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: we say I love you before I say I give

1246
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 1: myself to you, don't We have to know who the

1247
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:51,760
Speaker 1: eye is. Mm hmm. The coolest wedding I've ever been

1248
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 1: to two of my dearest girlfriends, my girlfriend Emily and

1249
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: her wife Michelle. When they got married, they designed their

1250
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:06,560
Speaker 1: ceremony to talk about each of them as individuals and

1251
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 1: then their relationship as a unit, and they delivered wedding

1252
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 1: vows to the eye, the U, and the we, so good,

1253
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 1: so good because they wanted to commit. Michelle wanted to

1254
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 1: commit to Emily as she is. Emily wanted to commit

1255
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:30,759
Speaker 1: to Michelle as she is. Emily committed to Emily, Michelle

1256
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 1: committed to Michelle, and then they committed to the unit,

1257
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 1: to the third thing that is them together, the third thing.

1258
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: It's a it's a third thing. And then the wild

1259
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 1: thing is is that you can't even commit to that

1260
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 1: third thing. So because you have to commit to everything,

1261
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 1: that third thing will become be the same, it will

1262
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 1: always be the it will always change. Like Abbie says

1263
01:17:58,479 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 1: to me all the time, which I think is the

1264
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 1: most beautiful thing. I love you and I already love

1265
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: every woman you will become because it's like what we

1266
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: fall in love with these ideas of people. But people

1267
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 1: nature are supposed to evolve and change over and over again.

1268
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: Have these relationships where people are holding each other back

1269
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 1: because they want the person to be the same right,

1270
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 1: So we have to It's like when we fall in

1271
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 1: love with other people. We can't even fall in love

1272
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: with other people. We have to fall in love with

1273
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 1: that person's process, and we have to commit to upholding

1274
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 1: their process rather than to your point clean to who

1275
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: they are today or who they were yesterday. It's not

1276
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 1: hard for people to see the journey from Momastery to

1277
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 1: your first book and to your second book, and and

1278
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 1: and to learn about what your journey was with Craig.

1279
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:55,840
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm so amazed by the way the two

1280
01:18:55,960 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 1: of you loved each other, oh most more in the

1281
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,639
Speaker 1: taking a part of your marriage than you've even loved

1282
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: each other in it, so that you could build a

1283
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 1: better family, because the family is the point. But I

1284
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:13,639
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Abby. I want to talk

1285
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 1: about you meeting Abby. I want to talk about how

1286
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:22,800
Speaker 1: you couldn't have written Untamed without Abby and what Abby

1287
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 1: helped you unlocking yourself because it's you with Abby, and

1288
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 1: now I feel like I can tell the people of

1289
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 1: the secret. So the night we met and we were

1290
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 1: pretzeld on the couch barefoot together. I had been speaking

1291
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 1: to Abby because she and I had met a few

1292
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:45,639
Speaker 1: months before. Again as as to you know people out

1293
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 1: there on the on the activism front, and I am

1294
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 1: an unabashed as much as I don't understand a lot

1295
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 1: of sports, I am a mental soccer fan. Like I

1296
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 1: I become I become one of those people, like when

1297
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 1: you do the videos in your house during the tournaments

1298
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:05,880
Speaker 1: and everyone is screaming. I become that person. It's like

1299
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: I it's like I become the Hulk, or like when

1300
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 1: a great white shark when it's little eyes get covered

1301
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 1: right before it attacks something. I some other part of

1302
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 1: me comes out and I turned into a crazy person.

1303
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:22,800
Speaker 1: It's just women's soccer or is it men's soccer? No?

1304
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 1: Like I I well, no, I'm a crazy person for

1305
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: women's soccer. I really like men's soccer. Like I've I've

1306
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: traveled to see men's soccer games in places. Yeah, I'm like,

1307
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm a fan. I'm a soccer person. I

1308
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 1: played a y s O soccer when I was a

1309
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: little Um. I'll send you a photo of me and

1310
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 1: my little uniform, but I I just love it. And

1311
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 1: and Abby had just led the women's national team to

1312
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: win the World Cup and and was doing so as

1313
01:20:54,800 --> 01:21:01,839
Speaker 1: such a heart forward activist while leading a team and proving,

1314
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,919
Speaker 1: as women often do, that they can literally do seventeen

1315
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 1: things and spin a plate on their head at once

1316
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:12,280
Speaker 1: and look elegant doing it. And and so we all

1317
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 1: we all got to meet at this event, and I

1318
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:17,679
Speaker 1: was like, there's the team. What am I going to say?

1319
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god? And then before I know it, Abby's

1320
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 1: walking up to me, and I'm like, there, who is

1321
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:25,280
Speaker 1: what is she doing? What's who is she coming me?

1322
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 1: She's coming, She's coming to me. And she walks up

1323
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:31,000
Speaker 1: and goes, all these girls over here are too scared

1324
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: to talk to you. They're all huge One Tree Hill fans.

1325
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: We think you're a badass, and also we know you're

1326
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: a soccer fan. Come over here and have a drink

1327
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:42,160
Speaker 1: with us. And I was like, okay, Abby, And that's

1328
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: how Abby and I became friends. And so we had

1329
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,720
Speaker 1: stayed in touch for a while and talked about the

1330
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 1: deep things and and she was going through all these

1331
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 1: amazing transitions again, heart forward and then she calls me

1332
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 1: and says, hey, you're going to do this together to

1333
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:03,160
Speaker 1: her with my girl Glennon, and I was like, oh god, Abby,

1334
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: I just love her. I think she's so cool. We're

1335
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 1: going to be in conversation tonight. It's like a fireside

1336
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,479
Speaker 1: and I can't wait. I just like, I feel like

1337
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: she's my people. And she goes, yeah, no she is,

1338
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 1: I mean, and and you know she's my girl, and

1339
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I know. I've been like she's

1340
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 1: gonna also she's gonna be my girl too, Like I

1341
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:21,560
Speaker 1: just know right like she's our people. And Abby goes no, no, no, no,

1342
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: you're missing it. So if she's my girl, and I

1343
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 1: went what And I was like, oh my god, who knows?

1344
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: And she was like nobody knows. And I was like,

1345
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 1: oh my god. So when we were in the little

1346
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: in the backstage area that night, I even waited until

1347
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,559
Speaker 1: the people who were around us were out of your shot,

1348
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 1: and I was like, Glennen, I know that Abby loves you.

1349
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: And then you love Abby and I'm so happy and

1350
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: you were like, oh my god, I'm so happy that

1351
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 1: I can talk about this with someone now, Like the

1352
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 1: magic of of knowing that you both had been like

1353
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 1: just hit by the lightning bowl of this love that

1354
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 1: you still that still maintains this electricity between you two,

1355
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 1: tell us everything about it, because you had a big

1356
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,720
Speaker 1: you had a lot of stuff that you had to

1357
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 1: kind of cast aside to live your biggest truest life

1358
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: and your and your biggest truest love. So what what

1359
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:36,920
Speaker 1: do you do? I mean, I almost didn't do it.

1360
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: I almost just I had finally, So so we met

1361
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 1: at a at the first event for Love Warrior, which

1362
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 1: was problematic. So, yes, I was watching Love Warrior, which

1363
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: was being touted all over the place. It was an

1364
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 1: open book Club pick. It was supposed to be like

1365
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: the biggest book of the year, and it was The

1366
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 1: tagline was and the epic marriage redemption story. Okaysic, this

1367
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 1: is literally the book about how Craig and I saved

1368
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,120
Speaker 1: our marriage. And then I go to the first event

1369
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 1: and me, Abby, can I ask you something though? Did

1370
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: that feel fair that people were calling it that? Because, yes,

1371
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 1: your book was a redemption story about two people choosing

1372
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 1: to love each other. But I never read it as

1373
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 1: a story of you choosing to stay. I I read

1374
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 1: it as a story of you choosing to do the

1375
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,759
Speaker 1: work to find out why it broke in the first place.

1376
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: And thank god we didn't do the work, because you know,

1377
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 1: I thought we were doing all of that work to

1378
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:41,640
Speaker 1: have our happily ever after, But we were doing all

1379
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:44,639
Speaker 1: of that work so that we could leave our marriage

1380
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 1: with respect and trust for each other and spend the

1381
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 1: rest of our lives co parenting. So I yes, fell

1382
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:59,840
Speaker 1: madly in love with Abby in immediately, like upon first sight,

1383
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 1: which I can't even say still without gagging because he's

1384
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 1: so upset that for the rest of my life I

1385
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 1: have to tell that truth because it sounds so cheesy.

1386
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 1: And I just I am never a person who believed

1387
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:15,840
Speaker 1: in any kind of romantic love in my life, like

1388
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: I used to say, so, I'm just it was my

1389
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 1: family's like thing. I'm just I'm more like, you know,

1390
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: some people are like lasers and they love one person

1391
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,560
Speaker 1: with their love, but I more like a floodlight, Like

1392
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 1: I just love like I didn't ever have that look before, never,

1393
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: which now I kind of have some more clues as

1394
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:42,120
Speaker 1: to why. But I but I madly in love with

1395
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 1: her immediately, and we were in the same room for

1396
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 1: a couple of hours with a bunch of other writers

1397
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:51,880
Speaker 1: at this big librarians can mention where we were speaking

1398
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 1: to a thousand librarians on this day as together. We

1399
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 1: both had this like ridiculously magical moment and then we

1400
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 1: both lost our minds. So like she stood up to

1401
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 1: speak do her part, and she talked for like three

1402
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 1: minutes since sat down, I forgot her whole speech. Then

1403
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 1: I stood up to speak, and then I didn't. I

1404
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 1: completely disregarded my speech and just said a bunch of

1405
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: things that I thought would make her think I was cool,

1406
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 1: Like let was in front of a thousand in libraries.

1407
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 1: That's what I did, Okay. So so then we went

1408
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 1: our separate ways, and as you know, she went back

1409
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: to Portland, I went back to Florida. We started writing

1410
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: each other letters. We fell deeply and deeply in love

1411
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 1: through letters to each other. She actually gave them to

1412
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 1: me like all bound up. Later it was like a

1413
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 1: stack like this, But we never saw each other again.

1414
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:49,720
Speaker 1: I dismantled my entire life and she dismantled her entire life.

1415
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 1: Before we had ever been alone in the room together

1416
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 1: or ever touched each other um And I think that's

1417
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 1: because it was an insanely romantic, magical thing. But I

1418
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 1: think it's also because I understood very clearly that I

1419
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:07,600
Speaker 1: was at a huge turning point in my life, that

1420
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:10,800
Speaker 1: this wasn't really about will I stay with Craig or

1421
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: go with Abby. It wasn't that it was like, will

1422
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:18,519
Speaker 1: I abandoned myself again? Like I have myself rise up?

1423
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 1: Like I have I felt my true self, like the

1424
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: girl I was before the world told me who to be.

1425
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 1: I have felt her just like rise up inside me

1426
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:29,600
Speaker 1: and rattle the bars of my cage. And will I

1427
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 1: allow myself to be free? M hm? Will I do?

1428
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 1: And And so it felt very much like a life

1429
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 1: or death situation, and I think it was and a

1430
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: spirit you know, a soul life or death situation. And

1431
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 1: and you know that, you know, I almost didn't do it,

1432
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 1: so because I had so many tamed ideas about motherhood,

1433
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 1: you know, as you know, imagine being me and looking

1434
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:04,679
Speaker 1: at Tish and thinking, oh God, like this child cries

1435
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: for eight hours if I can't tie her shoes fast enough,

1436
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,600
Speaker 1: like so I'm going to break up the family like

1437
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: christ And I just had this, you know, I just

1438
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 1: thought a good mom doesn't hurt her children a good

1439
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:20,040
Speaker 1: mom doesn't hurt her children. And then one day I

1440
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: was bringing Tish's hair and I looked at her and

1441
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, I am staying in this marriage for her,

1442
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 1: But what I want this marriage for her? And if

1443
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want this marriage for her, then why am

1444
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 1: I modeling bad love and calling that good mother m?

1445
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:44,599
Speaker 1: And the answer is simple, It's because somewhere along the line,

1446
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:47,640
Speaker 1: I swallowed the idea that a good mother is some

1447
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 1: arter m. And a mother earns her mothering nous proves

1448
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:58,520
Speaker 1: her love by burying herself, by burying her needs, her ambition,

1449
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 1: her dream fire, in honor of her children, by being

1450
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 1: oh so selfless for the others, as if our needs

1451
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:13,400
Speaker 1: are mutually exclusive. See that posen route. That that is

1452
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 1: a poison pill that culture gives women. They can go

1453
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 1: for what is good for you, because what is good

1454
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:22,120
Speaker 1: for you will necessarily be bad for your children and

1455
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 1: your people, which is that's horseship, Like what is good

1456
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 1: for you will always inevitably be what is good and

1457
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 1: true for your people. Because there's no such thing as

1458
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: one way liberation. Right generate ourselves when we live true

1459
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 1: to ourselves, that automatically grants permission to everyone in our

1460
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 1: circles to live true to themselves. So that is really

1461
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:49,720
Speaker 1: I mean, that was one of the clearest moments I

1462
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 1: had of my really how tamed I was, because I

1463
01:29:53,479 --> 01:29:56,400
Speaker 1: am a woman who is smarter than that. Like I

1464
01:29:56,720 --> 01:30:00,640
Speaker 1: know that love is not about slowly dying, right, I

1465
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 1: know of is not about disappearing, but about emerging. I

1466
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:07,599
Speaker 1: know that I would never want my daughter to slowly

1467
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:09,559
Speaker 1: die inside of the marriage, and yet I was doing

1468
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 1: it in honor of my daughter, which means that I

1469
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:15,760
Speaker 1: had been brainwashed. It is very clear that a good

1470
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 1: mother is not a martyr. Right. That is a terrible

1471
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:21,760
Speaker 1: burden and a terrible legacy to leave for your children. Right.

1472
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 1: That is, a children of martyr mothers grow up thinking

1473
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 1: that they have to be martyrs also, And they also

1474
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 1: grew up knowing that they were the reason their mom

1475
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 1: stopped living. They also knowing that they never knew their

1476
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:40,719
Speaker 1: mother because buried beneath all of those expectations and shids

1477
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:43,439
Speaker 1: and shuns. Right. That is why Carl Young said that

1478
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 1: the greatest burden of child can bear is the unlived

1479
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:50,400
Speaker 1: life of a parent. Right. So that's just one version

1480
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 1: of these roots, these beliefs we have to rip out

1481
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 1: from under us. Like. A good mother is not a martyr, right.

1482
01:30:56,920 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 1: A good mother is a model. Right. A good mother

1483
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:02,879
Speaker 1: mother who knows that her children will only allow themselves

1484
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:05,639
Speaker 1: to live as fully as she allows herself to live.

1485
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: So she must not settle for any relationship or life,

1486
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:14,640
Speaker 1: or community or nation that is less beautiful than the

1487
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 1: one you want for her child. So when you know

1488
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 1: it's amazing you did this in spite of your children,

1489
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:23,479
Speaker 1: fuck that. No, I did this because of my children,

1490
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: But you did it because of them, because you were

1491
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: willing to look deeper than what we're trained to do.

1492
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:33,320
Speaker 1: Because to your point, women, we as women see our

1493
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 1: mothers be martyrs. And then we have this unconscious or

1494
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:40,679
Speaker 1: subconscious understanding that we are slowly marching towards the death

1495
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:42,680
Speaker 1: of self because once we have a kid, we're going

1496
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:45,840
Speaker 1: to have to do it too. And and we don't

1497
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 1: even know that that's what it is, because everyone gives

1498
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 1: us the fairy tale, which says, once you have your

1499
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 1: partner and your baby, you're just going to feel whole

1500
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:55,760
Speaker 1: and happy every single second of every single day. So

1501
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:59,160
Speaker 1: we're told to opposing things and we don't know what's true,

1502
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:01,559
Speaker 1: So we kind of nor it and we blindly stumble

1503
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: towards the future, which is either scary or perfect, but

1504
01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 1: both feel wrong. And then it perpetuates, and you said, stop,

1505
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 1: look underneath, go to the route. Oh, I'm afraid to

1506
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: cause pain that might feel in the in the present,

1507
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: in the moment, catastrophic to my child. So I'm sentencing

1508
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:27,439
Speaker 1: her to a lifetime of pain that exists on a

1509
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 1: scale from potentially dull and consistent to catastrophic every single day. Well,

1510
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:35,640
Speaker 1: that certainly doesn't make sense. Let's do the momentary so

1511
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 1: we can change the future. That's it. But it's that

1512
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: it's that pause, right, It's that sailah. It's that like

1513
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 1: it's a difference between living an unexamined or examined life. Right,

1514
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 1: we choose to live unexamined lives. We will chase dirty

1515
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 1: paint funnies for the rest of our lives and wonder

1516
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 1: why we feel like we're slowly dying, and we will

1517
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:03,680
Speaker 1: take train our children to do the same thing. I

1518
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:05,880
Speaker 1: think it comes down to that thing I love that

1519
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:08,400
Speaker 1: Witman said, which is just like our our duty is

1520
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 1: to re examine every single thing we've been taught in school,

1521
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:17,560
Speaker 1: in a church, in a book, and dismiss whatever insults

1522
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:24,439
Speaker 1: our souls. Right, it insults my soul. The idea that love,

1523
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 1: that a woman's form of love is to disappear in

1524
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 1: any way, right, insults myself and so and so. Yeah,

1525
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:40,559
Speaker 1: I just decided that the way that I can mother

1526
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 1: my children well is to live the truest, freest, most beautiful,

1527
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 1: most whole life that I can possibly imagine, and just

1528
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 1: fully expect them to do the same. And that's getting untamed. Thanks,

1529
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,639
Speaker 1: So yeah, because I do. When we pass down these

1530
01:33:56,720 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 1: ideas of martyrdoms, we're just taming our girls. I don't

1531
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 1: retaining them, you know, That's what I was doing. Our

1532
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 1: kids know, like they know when we're in loving relationships

1533
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:13,479
Speaker 1: or not. And so when we when we make when

1534
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:16,680
Speaker 1: we stay in a relationship that is not healthy and

1535
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:21,680
Speaker 1: that it's broken, we are teaching our children what love is. Right.

1536
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:27,040
Speaker 1: So you talk in the book about how so many

1537
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 1: of us have been so controlled for so long, and

1538
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:32,680
Speaker 1: that what the world really needs is more and more

1539
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:36,519
Speaker 1: women who are completely out of control. And I think

1540
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 1: about this time that we find ourselves in the world

1541
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,760
Speaker 1: is out of control. And we're also so many of

1542
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 1: us stuck at home with ourselves. This could be an

1543
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 1: opportunity for that Sailah that you reference that pause to

1544
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:55,680
Speaker 1: let it sink and settle. Can you explain what you

1545
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:58,760
Speaker 1: mean by out of control women? And and can you,

1546
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:04,439
Speaker 1: maybe as an expert at this offer to listeners a

1547
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: couple of nudges towards how to get reflective with self control.

1548
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,519
Speaker 1: I think most of my pain in my life has

1549
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:20,519
Speaker 1: been trying to control things. Like I realized this when

1550
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:24,639
Speaker 1: I fell in love with Abby. And I didn't realize

1551
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 1: that I was such a controlling person before I knew Abby,

1552
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:29,800
Speaker 1: because I just I always knew that I was like

1553
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:37,599
Speaker 1: the leader ding ding ding ding ding how everything always

1554
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:41,120
Speaker 1: But I just thought that I had really good ideas,

1555
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, and that I cared about my people so much,

1556
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 1: and so I thought that my duty was to lead

1557
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:53,519
Speaker 1: and guide them right, and that just always seemed to

1558
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:55,880
Speaker 1: kind of work for me. Um while, I mean, I

1559
01:35:55,960 --> 01:36:01,760
Speaker 1: got divorced, so clearly what wasn't working. But but then

1560
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:05,280
Speaker 1: when I'm married Abbie, it so Abby is really good

1561
01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:08,360
Speaker 1: at communicating things to me very clearly and kindly. And

1562
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:10,519
Speaker 1: one day I was doing the thing that I do

1563
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,240
Speaker 1: where I was like manipulating the situation behind the scenes,

1564
01:36:14,240 --> 01:36:16,320
Speaker 1: that I think people don't know what I'm doing when

1565
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm controlling them, you know. And she stopped me and

1566
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 1: she said, Honey, I need you to know that I

1567
01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:23,880
Speaker 1: see what you're doing. I see that you're trying to

1568
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 1: control me. And what I need you to know is

1569
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 1: that that hurts my feelings so much because it makes

1570
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:32,439
Speaker 1: me feel like you don't trust me, and I trust

1571
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 1: you so much. I trust you so much, and I

1572
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:38,320
Speaker 1: just want you to trust me um and believe in me.

1573
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 1: And that's when I realized, oh, okay, so I have

1574
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:49,400
Speaker 1: been trying to love people by controlling them, when in

1575
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 1: fact love is the opposite of control, Like you control

1576
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:58,760
Speaker 1: people or we can love people, but we can't do

1577
01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:03,439
Speaker 1: book because love requires trust, right, and we only control

1578
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:07,040
Speaker 1: things that we don't trust. So what we're getting at

1579
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:10,679
Speaker 1: to the with that is it took me to see

1580
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 1: love and control as opposites in my relationships for me

1581
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:16,680
Speaker 1: to be able to see love and control as opposites

1582
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:20,840
Speaker 1: for myself. Okay, the amount of things that women try

1583
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 1: to control about ourselves. Right, we can't let our hair go, right,

1584
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:27,920
Speaker 1: we can't let our hair and be what it is,

1585
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:30,519
Speaker 1: we have to fix it. We can't let our skin

1586
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:32,120
Speaker 1: be what it is. We have to fix it. We

1587
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:34,600
Speaker 1: can't let our bodies be what they are. We have

1588
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:37,519
Speaker 1: to control them. We can't let our emotions be what

1589
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 1: they are. We have to control them. We can't let

1590
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:41,920
Speaker 1: our ambition be what it is. We have to control it.

1591
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 1: We can't let our dreams be as big as they are.

1592
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:48,880
Speaker 1: We have to control them. Like we can't let our

1593
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:53,920
Speaker 1: body like. We do not love ourselves. Okay, whatever freaking

1594
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:58,519
Speaker 1: commercials soap commercials tell you about what is self love

1595
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:01,519
Speaker 1: is not what self love is. What self love is

1596
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 1: is when you can leave yourself the funk alone because

1597
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:09,280
Speaker 1: rust yourself. I do not love my body, and I

1598
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:11,280
Speaker 1: know that, and it has nothing to do with the

1599
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:13,680
Speaker 1: shape of my body. Okay, I don't give a shit

1600
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,600
Speaker 1: about that. The reason I know I don't love my

1601
01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 1: body is because I'm still constantly trying to control it. Right,

1602
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,479
Speaker 1: because so much of my day, because of the stuff

1603
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:25,719
Speaker 1: that was ingrained in my bones when I was little,

1604
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 1: about how a woman earns her worthiness by staying small,

1605
01:38:30,680 --> 01:38:32,800
Speaker 1: I spent so much of my time and energy thinking

1606
01:38:32,840 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: about food and thinking about exercise because I'm trying to

1607
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:41,000
Speaker 1: control my body to keep it small, okay, instead of

1608
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 1: just letting it be whatever it will be. Mm hmm.

1609
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: So what I mean by I mean I stopped dyeing

1610
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 1: my hair, right, I mean I still throw bleach it

1611
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:53,880
Speaker 1: it sometimes I think it's kind of fun, but like

1612
01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:58,240
Speaker 1: the gray is okay. I stopped botox in my face

1613
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 1: and just let it be what it is. I stopped

1614
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:02,479
Speaker 1: control like I have stopped, And what I figured out is, oh,

1615
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 1: my hair is awesome, Oh my awesome. I've stopped trying

1616
01:39:06,880 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 1: to control my anger. I'm not trying to manage my

1617
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:12,880
Speaker 1: anger anywhere. I'm harnessing my anger into change is good

1618
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:17,240
Speaker 1: and smart and wise. Yes, because you're angry about the

1619
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:21,160
Speaker 1: brokenness that you see when I try to think that

1620
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 1: every time we feel angry, there's something wrong with us,

1621
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 1: when actually you know, it just means there's something wrong.

1622
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:30,080
Speaker 1: And every marginalized group will always be trained to be

1623
01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:32,160
Speaker 1: ashamed of their anger. And the reason why it's because

1624
01:39:32,200 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 1: angry people tend to demand change, simple, simple, simple, right.

1625
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:39,280
Speaker 1: So that's what I mean by out of control is

1626
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:43,720
Speaker 1: that I don't it means when I think she's out

1627
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:46,200
Speaker 1: of control. What I mean is what I think is Oh,

1628
01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:51,919
Speaker 1: she's out of their control, out of of harmful religions control,

1629
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:56,280
Speaker 1: she's out of the beauty industries control, she's out of

1630
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,640
Speaker 1: imbalance and and just political control. She That's why me

1631
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:06,160
Speaker 1: like women who are out of control of outside power

1632
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:10,000
Speaker 1: and have returned to themselves and trust their inner power.

1633
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:13,280
Speaker 1: And when you're out of their control, you can be

1634
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:20,479
Speaker 1: in love with yourself, with your knowing, with your people.

1635
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: You stop gas when you finally see all the gas

1636
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:27,960
Speaker 1: lighting for what it is. You mean, no, no, no, no,

1637
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:33,679
Speaker 1: Like all my feelings are okay. 's okay, my skins okay,

1638
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:38,240
Speaker 1: my hair is okay, my pain is okay, my ambition

1639
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:43,080
Speaker 1: is okay, my desires are okay. Like things are good.

1640
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:46,760
Speaker 1: Everything that we are trying to unlearn comes from the

1641
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:50,040
Speaker 1: basic thing that women are taught in a patriarch agriculture,

1642
01:40:50,120 --> 01:40:53,439
Speaker 1: which is that you are that you are bad and

1643
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 1: you cannot trust yourself, and so we have to reject

1644
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 1: that on every level and return to we are good

1645
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:02,040
Speaker 1: and we can trust ourselves. Mm hm. One of my

1646
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:04,639
Speaker 1: favorite things I've read that outside about your book, because

1647
01:41:04,920 --> 01:41:07,320
Speaker 1: obviously you know I love you and I'm also your

1648
01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:12,760
Speaker 1: biggest fan in parade magazine. I read all the reviews, obviously, um,

1649
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:16,160
Speaker 1: they said something that I loved so much. They talked

1650
01:41:16,160 --> 01:41:18,240
Speaker 1: about your first two books, and they said, if carry

1651
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:22,120
Speaker 1: On Warrior and Love Warrior were about the battles over self, compassion,

1652
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:27,519
Speaker 1: and un numbing from life's pain, Untamed gives readers the

1653
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:33,439
Speaker 1: blueprint for finally maybe having a chance at peace. And

1654
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:38,240
Speaker 1: what you're saying to me about getting out of their

1655
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 1: control and back into self, which really taps us back

1656
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:46,800
Speaker 1: into each other in a real way, in an authentic way,

1657
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:51,200
Speaker 1: that that makes my heart feel at peace. And so

1658
01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited for everyone to have been able during

1659
01:41:57,240 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 1: this conversation to bask in your words and your wisdom,

1660
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 1: but also to have the book. It's not lost on me,

1661
01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:07,160
Speaker 1: by the way that under its perfect glittery cover, with

1662
01:42:07,320 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 1: all of the colors and all of the passion that

1663
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:11,599
Speaker 1: does we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.

1664
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 1: The book looks like an X ray of your insides,

1665
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:17,720
Speaker 1: but under the cover the book is blue, like it's

1666
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 1: a blueprint. Oh. I love it so much. I want

1667
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:24,960
Speaker 1: to ask you a hundred more questions, but I'm not

1668
01:42:25,040 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 1: going to because you have a life and children, to

1669
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:34,120
Speaker 1: go and you know, attend to or just yourself and tiktoks.

1670
01:42:34,200 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: This is what my children do, you know what in

1671
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:40,960
Speaker 1: a time of Corona. I think it's all fair and good.

1672
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:43,200
Speaker 1: You know what they're doing, Glenn and there in film school,

1673
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:47,640
Speaker 1: that's what TikTok is. They're learning to tell stories and

1674
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:52,840
Speaker 1: edit sounds. Yeah, no, I think that's completely fair. But

1675
01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:56,160
Speaker 1: I do have one. I have one last question for you,

1676
01:42:56,360 --> 01:43:00,120
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to ask you. We're talking king

1677
01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:04,439
Speaker 1: about being a work in progress. That's that's the whole

1678
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:07,120
Speaker 1: theme of the show. And I I wonder when you

1679
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:10,640
Speaker 1: hear the phrase, whether it's something that's personal or professional

1680
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:15,400
Speaker 1: or in any other circle that goes in that ven diagram,

1681
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 1: what feels like a work in progress in your life?

1682
01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:23,679
Speaker 1: Right now? Okay, I'll tell you the real one, because

1683
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:27,400
Speaker 1: I did have as your half it ones. I think

1684
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:31,720
Speaker 1: it's the body Ship, and I'm so I'm so annoyed

1685
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:34,439
Speaker 1: about it, Sophia. I just I'm like, I'm forty four

1686
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:39,679
Speaker 1: years old. I think google that yesterday in an interview

1687
01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:43,639
Speaker 1: of some reason. How old are yours? I think it's Yeah.

1688
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:47,120
Speaker 1: I have times in my life where I get the

1689
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, I became believing when I was ten, and

1690
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:52,679
Speaker 1: ever since then, I've struggled with body and I don't

1691
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:57,160
Speaker 1: it's more like it's like compulsive thoughts about it. It's

1692
01:43:57,240 --> 01:44:01,639
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like being harassed by somebody really mean,

1693
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 1: but like the caller is from inside the house, and

1694
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:10,600
Speaker 1: and it's so embarrassing for me because I feel like

1695
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be this, this leader for women and

1696
01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:16,600
Speaker 1: like this feminist person, and so I feel like, for

1697
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:18,840
Speaker 1: God's sakes, I should at least have this body thing

1698
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:21,759
Speaker 1: figured out, and I should not care and I should

1699
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:24,479
Speaker 1: be freer about it. Um. But the truth is I

1700
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:27,080
Speaker 1: told Avery recently that I bet, like I bet, it

1701
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:29,760
Speaker 1: gets worse and better at different times, and things are

1702
01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:33,559
Speaker 1: all usually gets worse, but I bet fifty of all

1703
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:38,519
Speaker 1: of my thoughts are about food. And and that makes

1704
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:42,920
Speaker 1: me so furious because of the opportunity cost. Right, because

1705
01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:45,280
Speaker 1: I'm such a smart and powerful woman, And when I

1706
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:48,240
Speaker 1: think about the art or the activism that could have

1707
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:52,720
Speaker 1: happened if I had that back, that's the cost, right,

1708
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:57,519
Speaker 1: That's the cost the freaking messages. So anyway, I had

1709
01:44:57,560 --> 01:45:00,240
Speaker 1: gotten to the point where life and this it's just

1710
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:04,240
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna live this. It's fine, but I feel

1711
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:09,559
Speaker 1: like maybe not, maybe I should. I could not should,

1712
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:18,240
Speaker 1: maybe I could do the work. I'm just tired of

1713
01:45:18,360 --> 01:45:22,200
Speaker 1: all the work. You know, it's hard to be progress forever.

1714
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:26,240
Speaker 1: It's so hard to be human. But I think because

1715
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:28,200
Speaker 1: everyone lies and tells us one day we're going to

1716
01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:31,240
Speaker 1: wake up and feel great, and then eventually you realize, no,

1717
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:33,720
Speaker 1: I'm not. And then you think I should do the work,

1718
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:36,080
Speaker 1: and then you do the work and you get to

1719
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:38,479
Speaker 1: the end of let's call it a worksheet for lack

1720
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:43,480
Speaker 1: of a better term, and then there's a new worksheet

1721
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:46,400
Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm sorry, what I have to this

1722
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:52,040
Speaker 1: is cyclical. This goes on forever. If I want to

1723
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:55,960
Speaker 1: be a conscious person, I have to do this forever,

1724
01:45:56,960 --> 01:46:04,000
Speaker 1: oh so much. And then I said that, really, it's

1725
01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:07,040
Speaker 1: like we all just have the same freaking theory worksheets

1726
01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 1: our whole entire dim life. Like all of my issues

1727
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:12,960
Speaker 1: are really just like three things, and they just keep

1728
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:18,720
Speaker 1: coming back over and over again iterations every decade of

1729
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 1: my life. You know, it would be cool if by

1730
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:25,920
Speaker 1: the time I was fifty, I was a little bit

1731
01:46:26,120 --> 01:46:32,000
Speaker 1: freer in the body food progress. It's where I will.

1732
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:36,680
Speaker 1: That's my work in progress. I love that. And you know,

1733
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:40,960
Speaker 1: maybe you've done so much work on so many systems

1734
01:46:41,040 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 1: that affect us out there that now that inner part

1735
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 1: of you is saying, yeah, you've got to look at

1736
01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:50,880
Speaker 1: the one that affects us in here too. Love me

1737
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:56,679
Speaker 1: the way you love the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank

1738
01:46:56,760 --> 01:47:00,120
Speaker 1: you so much for fear. I'm sure next Tuesday I'll

1739
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:03,640
Speaker 1: have it all figured out. Next Tuesday, I'm just going

1740
01:47:03,680 --> 01:47:05,519
Speaker 1: to get a photo of a worksheet and you'll be like,

1741
01:47:05,600 --> 01:47:13,800
Speaker 1: I did it well, my sister. I love you. I'm

1742
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for your book. I'm so freaking proud

1743
01:47:17,160 --> 01:47:20,120
Speaker 1: of you, which probably feels weird, but i am. I'm

1744
01:47:20,160 --> 01:47:24,559
Speaker 1: just like God, I'm proud of her. Thank you. I'm

1745
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:26,880
Speaker 1: proud to know. I'm so grateful to be your fund

1746
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:30,240
Speaker 1: and sister. Thank you for sharing all of this with

1747
01:47:30,760 --> 01:47:34,200
Speaker 1: with all of us. Thanks for trusting me with this

1748
01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:38,240
Speaker 1: beautiful community you've made here. They're so cool. They really

1749
01:47:38,320 --> 01:47:45,760
Speaker 1: are so cool. This show is executive produced by Me,

1750
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:50,959
Speaker 1: Sophia Bush, and sim Sarna. Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick.

1751
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:54,840
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Kate Linley. This episode was edited

1752
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:58,040
Speaker 1: by Matt Sasaki, and our music was written by Jack

1753
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 1: Garrett and produced by Mark Foster. The show is brought

1754
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:02,280
Speaker 1: to you by then Brilliant Anatomy