1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Casual Friday. 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy B. Wilson. I told 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: Tracy during one of our breaks while recording are Madame 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: Blovotsky episode that there was a detail about her. I 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: was withholding for this because it's not that important to 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: her life story, but it's kind of gross and fascinated 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: me a little bit. I kind of braced. I was like, 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: what gross and exactly what sensor we're talking about. She 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: allegedly smoked a hundred cigarettes a day. That's a lot, 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: that's play five packs. Wow. Now, I will say this, 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: I may have grown up in a household with an 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: adult that smoked about that much. It was yucky. Even 14 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: when I was a smoker, which is a long time ago, 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: I still found that yucky. Yeah, because everything just gets 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,199 Speaker 1: covered in smoke and it all yet like the whole 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: world has a yellow sheen on it. Yeah. Um, but 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: it just was fascinating to me. I was like, I 19 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: don't know how someone who does that travels as much 20 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: as she does, because you would think like her loan 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: capacity would be diminished. Well, and like when do you 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: have time to eat? Right? I mean I picture her 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: smoking while eating. And in fact, all Cott is said 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: to have met her before that seance started on that 25 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: farm in Vermont. They had had like a meal first, 26 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: like they served lunch first, and he waited for her 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: to go outside to smoke, to go approach her and 28 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: speak to her for the first time. And I'm like, 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm surprised she made it out the door, like yeah, well, 30 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, I mean, I know we're talking about like 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: modern manufactured cigarettes versus whatever, like something was probably needing 32 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: being rolled by hand. But like the people I have 33 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: known that characterize themselves as chain smokers were smoking more 34 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: like three packs a day, so five just seems like 35 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: so many. Yeah yeah, I mean that's like four cigarettes 36 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: an hour, presuming you didn't sleep, so obviously she did sleep, 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: so that means like probably more like six and ow 38 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: it is a lot. But I know she is so fascinating. 39 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: I feel like I could see there's a part of 40 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: me that completely understands how her world unfurled. Being that 41 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,839 Speaker 1: sort of clearly. The part of her that I kind 42 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: of identified with was the descriptions of her when she's 43 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: younger where it's like, on the one hand, she's very 44 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: stubborn and a little bit braddy and really saucy and 45 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: talks back to everybody, but she also was like an 46 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: academic achiever and you know, book ish and nerdy. And 47 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I understand all of this. Yeah, 48 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: and then how someone like that would long for more 49 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: than what the world offers them in terms of interestingness 50 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: and starts to unfur all along list of things that 51 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: are probably untrue, some of which got backed up by 52 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: her family enough, like it became family lore enough that 53 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: I think she probably started believing it. And then after that, 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: like once you're once you believe your own life, the 55 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: rest gets real blurry, and you begin to make a 56 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: world of your own design, whether it's rooted in reality 57 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: or not. Fascinating. Yeah, anytime we have somebody, let me 58 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: talk about on the show whose focus we might find 59 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: in like a new age bookstore today, Like, I'm always 60 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: reminded of various people I have known in my life 61 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: who at the time, like when I was in my 62 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: twenties or or or you know, teens or whatever, I 63 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: was like, Wow, that person really has some kind of 64 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: key to another mystical doorway. Um. And then later I 65 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: was like, did they though right? Well? And it's interesting 66 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: you mentioned that because there are plenty of modern historians 67 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: and also just people who study um religion and philosophy 68 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 1: that will say, like, you can see how New Age 69 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: was seated, like these ideas, the more kind of watered 70 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: down New Age ideas that are kind of rooted in 71 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: Eastern religion or Eastern beliefs but have gotten really like 72 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: westernized in ways that don't really understand the actual basis 73 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: of those beliefs. Like a lot of people attribute that 74 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: to Blovotsky, like she brought these ideas over in a 75 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: way that was not really completely understanding them, not completely 76 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: respecting them. I mean, as I said, she was so 77 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: problematic about being like I need to go to this 78 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: place and learn about you know, a higher sense of 79 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: purpose and reality and the things that we cannot understand 80 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: in our world from these people who clearly have the key. 81 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: Oh they don't have the key. They're stupid and they've 82 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: been ruined in some way. I will move on to 83 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: the next thing. Like it's very um, it's very problematic, 84 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: and so you start to really realize that in some 85 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: ways she was rewriting things to suit what she wanted 86 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: them to be, not really taking them from the sources 87 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: in a way that respected them for what they were. Oh, 88 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: Madame Blavatsky in your fringe E long loose robes. Uh yeah, yeah, 89 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: she's an interesting one. We talked about Mother Shipton this week. 90 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: We did so. I mentioned in the episode that I 91 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: had sold you that I was going to do this 92 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: episode if I could find enough, and then I was 93 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: surprised by how much I wound up finding. In addition 94 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: to that, my process was basically to go through bookmark 95 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff, grab various papers, start going through it, 96 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: and take a bunch of notes. And I had taken 97 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: a bunch of notes that were based on, uh, that 98 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: second edition of the first book that included Mother Shipton's 99 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: whole biography, not really realizing that it was like a 100 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: second printing of something that had come earlier, and having 101 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: no concept at all that the earlier works than that 102 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: had no reference to her biography in any way. And 103 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: I realized relatively late in the game that all of 104 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: my notes were in entirely the wrong order, and I 105 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: was gonna have to like go through and move literally 106 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: every piece of it or round to somewhere else to 107 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: make it make any sense. Whoo, that's always fun. That's 108 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: always a fun moment when you go, oh, it's but 109 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: it worked out. Yeah, it was funny. Thank you. I 110 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: love that. It's just a it's a funny topic inherently. Yeah. Yeah. 111 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: One of the things that we did not mention that 112 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: I I I was trying to figure out whether to 113 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: mention a lot of the stereotypical tropes that were used 114 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: to signify whiches are also used in like anti Semitic caricature. Yes, 115 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: absolutely so. They're like there has been some discussion about 116 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: like what the order of that is and and whether 117 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: it's that these markers, these like physical markers on people's 118 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: faces that were considered to be unnatural and wrong in 119 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: some way, we're used to create like caricatures of witches 120 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: as well as caricatures of Jewish people. Um or whether 121 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: one of them followed the other. Um And as far 122 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: as I can fine, it seems like these same tropes 123 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: used on multiple different groups of people. Uh, not so 124 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: much that one of them fed into another, right, It's 125 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: more just like uh, a shorthand way to convey otherness 126 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: in a manner that is ugly and not to like 127 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: the standards you yourself would identify. Yeah, um, there there 128 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: was a phrase in this outline that I did not 129 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: comment on while we were talking because it would have 130 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: taken us way off course. But there's this line that 131 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: you wrote about the baby doing mischief, which is unseen 132 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: hands pelted the neighbors with rotten apples and garbage. And 133 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: I had this flash back. Okay, when I was a 134 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: kid and the David Letterman Show began one I didn't 135 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: have a bedtime like I just never did my parents. 136 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: Everyone in my family has sleeping issues, and so my 137 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: parents were never hardcore about it. Um. But even when 138 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: they did try to send me to bed, I would 139 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: just like stay up late and like sneak to the 140 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: back of the living room and watch David Letterman. But 141 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: one of the great things that they did, or I 142 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: thought it was great and it stuck with me forever, 143 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: is when Chris Elliott used to appear on David Letterman 144 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: in the early years as this sort of random character. 145 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: But one of the lines he would say all the 146 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: time which has always stuck with me, was they pelted 147 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: us with rocks and garbage, And so when I read this, 148 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: I was like, it's it's Chris Elliott. Chris Elliot wrote 149 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: this a lot, and that's all I could think of. 150 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: They pelted us with rocks and garbage. That whole that 151 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,119 Speaker 1: whole lengthy biography that he made up, that just includes 152 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: so much that's just fantastic and strange and clearly not 153 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: a real thing. I don't know, it's it amused me 154 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: to read it. Well, we know that he loved poetry 155 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: and gaming, so it makes sense that he would want 156 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: to make some stuff up to maybe support the problems 157 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: created by the other one. Yeah. Yeah, it also was 158 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: it was more fun to me to read all of 159 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: these just they were. They were fun reading for me, 160 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: and a lot of them, in spite of the like 161 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: intense misogyny of one of them in particular, I had 162 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: a good time reading them, which was a nice breath 163 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: of fresh air, because when I got into the one 164 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: that was about um John Cleve Sims and the Hollow Earth, 165 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: I was looking forward to reading like all of the 166 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: weird documents of that, and I actually found specifically like 167 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: the book that had detailed all of his theories to 168 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: be fantastically boring. Um uh. And I also did not 169 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: realize getting into it that his son had lifted a 170 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: bunch of the same text. So when I was reading 171 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: his son's writing, I just I got into this part 172 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: that was the same as the boring thing I had 173 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: already read, and I was like, wait, am I making 174 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: this up that I really read it all of this before? 175 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: Or is it just so not captivating to me that 176 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: I have invented the idea that I read it already 177 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: double barreled boring. I don't know why it did not 178 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: strike me nearly as delightful and interesting as I hope 179 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: that it would, but it did not. This one, on 180 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: the other hand, did so. Thank you for your poetry 181 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: and gaming problem. Yes, mr head, you've made us giggle today. 182 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of 183 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 184 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app podcasts, or wherever you 185 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H