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Speaker 1: The US dollar is the most important currency for transactions

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Speaker 1: between companies and between nations around the world.

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Speaker 2: King Dollar does still dominate.

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Speaker 3: You don't really have a choice that you have to

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Speaker 3: basically engage in US dollars if you want to participate

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Speaker 3: in the kind of global financial system.

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Speaker 1: Not so for China's currency, the yuan or renminbi. You'll

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Speaker 1: often hear those used interchangeably. It accounts for just a

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Speaker 1: tiny fraction of global transactions. But China's president Jijenping is

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Speaker 1: out to change that. He's pressing to make the yuan

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Speaker 1: a rival to the dollar. I'm wes Kosova today on

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Speaker 1: the big tag can the yuan not king Dollar off

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Speaker 1: its throne? As you might imagine, the answer to that

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Speaker 1: question is complicated. Fortunately for US, Bloomberg's George Lay is

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Speaker 1: here to break it down in plain language. George, one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why the US is so important to

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Speaker 1: the world economy is that the dollar is the most

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Speaker 1: widely used currency in the world. Can you give us

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Speaker 1: a picture of why the dollar is so important?

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Speaker 4: Basically, if we look at international transactions, international finance, or

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Speaker 4: international trade, the dollar accounts for roughly half of all

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Speaker 4: the global trade flows and If you count the Euro,

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Speaker 4: that's another twenty five percent. So dollar and euro combined

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Speaker 4: the account for roughly three quarters of all global transactions,

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Speaker 4: whether it's person to person, whether it's between companies, and

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Speaker 4: whether it's between state entities. So, just to give you

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Speaker 4: an example, if China wants to buy iron, ore or

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Speaker 4: other commodities from Brazil, the most common kind of transaction

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Speaker 4: currency is the US dollar, And if someone based in

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Speaker 4: Canada wants to wire money to Mexico, the intermediary currency

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Speaker 4: is the US dollar. So it gives the United States

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Speaker 4: a lot of advantage, but it also raises a lot

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Speaker 4: of questions among people elsewhere, especially among people and among

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Speaker 4: countries that are not in the US and in Europe.

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Speaker 4: Back in April, when the President of Brazil visited Beijing,

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Speaker 4: he asked a question, why should trades between China and

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Speaker 4: Brazil be settled in the currency that is neither the

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Speaker 4: Chinese you are nor the Brazilian reality.

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Speaker 5: Every night, I asked myself, why should every country have

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Speaker 5: to be tied to the dollar for trade? Why can

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Speaker 5: we trade tied to our own councy, and why don't

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Speaker 5: we have the community to re it?

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Speaker 4: Okay, you know, compan do you not that. So a

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Speaker 4: lot of countries want to to circumvent the US dollar

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Speaker 4: as a payment currency for various reasons, economic reasons as

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Speaker 4: well as political reasons.

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Speaker 1: So why is the dollar and to a certain extent,

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Speaker 1: the euro why have they become the default currencies for

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Speaker 1: so many international transactions.

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Speaker 4: A lot of it has to do with history, with

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Speaker 4: the history of the global academy and global trade, because traditionally,

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Speaker 4: if we look at the past thirty forty years, the

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Speaker 4: US and European ecademies, they account for a big part

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Speaker 4: of the global economy and a big part of the

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Speaker 4: global trade. It is rapidly changing with China joining the picture.

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Speaker 4: So China has been doing a lot of trades with

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Speaker 4: other countries, non US, non European countries. So that's on

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Speaker 4: one hand. On the other hand, it is because the

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Speaker 4: US and Europe provide the most liquid financial markets when

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Speaker 4: it comes to using these currency. So if a country

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Speaker 4: receives the US dollars, it can do a lot with

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Speaker 4: these dollars. It could invest in US treasury markets, it

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Speaker 4: could invest in US stock market, and it could invest

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Speaker 4: them money in the US in terms of foreign direct investments, factories,

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Speaker 4: and other stuff. The same rule applies in Europe, but

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Speaker 4: it is not really the case in China. China still

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Speaker 4: has capital controls, So if you want to invest in

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Speaker 4: Chinese bands, if you want to invest in Chinese stock markets,

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Speaker 4: there are a lot more bureau credit controls than in

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Speaker 4: US and Europe. So that also explains why countries would

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Speaker 4: prefer to be paid in the US dollar and the

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Speaker 4: euro instead of the Chinese yuan or the Brazilian reality

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Speaker 4: or the Indian rupee.

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Speaker 1: But now you report that China is becoming more assertive

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Speaker 1: in wanting to make the uan's currency a currency that

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Speaker 1: plays in international markets much more.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly the case, especially after the war in Ukraine,

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Speaker 4: because the leadership in Beijing witnessed the sanctions both by

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Speaker 4: the US and by Europe piled upon Russia, and they

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Speaker 4: realize that conducting transactions in the US and Europe might

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Speaker 4: not be a safe choice. They really want to have

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Speaker 4: some alternative just in case similar centris were imposed on China.

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Speaker 1: And this is also part of the general growing rivalry

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Speaker 1: between the US and China.

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Speaker 5: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Exactly. So, as you mentioned, there this ongoing geopolitical

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Speaker 4: rivalry between the US and China, and Beijing wants to

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Speaker 4: have alternatives to everything that so far has been US dominated.

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Speaker 4: Beijing is trying to get companies to listed in Hong Kong,

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Speaker 4: which they think it's a safer choice as a financial

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Speaker 4: center than New York. Beijing is trying to push for

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Speaker 4: domestically produced computer chips, and at the same time, Beijing

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Speaker 4: is also trying to make sure that transactions, especially commodities,

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Speaker 4: transactions that are vital to China's economy, that are vital

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Speaker 4: to china national security, can be more or less settled

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Speaker 4: in China's own currency instead of relying on the US

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Speaker 4: dollar or the euro.

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Speaker 1: So you can see why China would want to do this,

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Speaker 1: But what is the appeal to other nations to adopt

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Speaker 1: Chinese currency instead of continuing to do transactions in the

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Speaker 1: dollar of the euro.

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Speaker 4: I think first it's the diversification benefits. Let's take Russia

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Speaker 4: for example. Before the war in Ukraine, China and Russia

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Speaker 4: has also been pushing for the use of the Chinese

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Speaker 4: rooming bee, but with very limited success.

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Speaker 1: But Russia plans to cut dollar holdings in wealth fun

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Speaker 1: to zero.

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Speaker 4: After the war. The rooming bee payments and rooming bee

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Speaker 4: transactions in Russia has really taken off. The Chinese UN

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Speaker 4: has replaced both the US and the Euro as the

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Speaker 4: most traded currency on the Moscow Exchange. So Russia might

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Speaker 4: be in more extreme case because the country has been

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Speaker 4: cut off from both US and eurofunding, so it has

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Speaker 4: to rely on the Chinese ran. But it also serves

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Speaker 4: as an example to other countries they see that using

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Speaker 4: the Chinese ruan could be a success. In the case

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Speaker 4: of Russia, with the UN, the Russia could continue to

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Speaker 4: export its oil to Beijing, and with the Chinese UN

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Speaker 4: it could import a lot of goods which were produced

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Speaker 4: by China. So we're not talking about the Chinese ruan

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Speaker 4: replacing the US dollar or the euro. Actually, in the

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Speaker 4: medium term, if we look at the next five to

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Speaker 4: ten years, very few people are forecasting the Chinese you

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Speaker 4: are surpassing the dollar or euro as the most important

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Speaker 4: currency of international trade. But the UN could provide some

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Speaker 4: diversification benefits, and other countries could look at the geopolitical

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Speaker 4: picture and say, hey, I don't want to put all

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Speaker 4: my ads in the dollar and in the Europe. I

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Speaker 4: could continue to be using the dollar using the Europe,

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Speaker 4: but we could make five or ten percent of our

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Speaker 4: trades in Chinese uan terms.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned specifically how Russia has been adapting Chinese currency

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Speaker 1: for that reason to circumvent these sanctions. Is this a

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Speaker 1: way that countries that are seeking to get around US

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Speaker 1: sanctions are increasingly using just simply to avoid the dollar altogether.

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Speaker 4: I think it's still too early to tell, because if

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Speaker 4: you look at the countries that are subject to a

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Speaker 4: lot of US centrics, what we're talking about is Russia, Iran,

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Speaker 4: North Korea. I think these are the most prominent examples.

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Speaker 4: Russia is the country with the biggest economic size among

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Speaker 4: all these we've talked about. Russia has a trillion dollar economy,

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Speaker 4: and Russia has a lot of business to do with China,

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Speaker 4: and Russia has really a big consumer base. It's a

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Speaker 4: country with population of more than one hundred million people.

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Speaker 4: And also Russia is cut off from the eurosystem as well,

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Speaker 4: where it runs oil exports can still be priced and

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Speaker 4: executed in euros. So we're really talking about in the

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Speaker 4: experimental case of a big country, a trilling dollar economy

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Speaker 4: with more than one hundred million people that at this

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Speaker 4: point they were forced off the eurosystem and forced off

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Speaker 4: the dollar system. But if it succeeds. China could just

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Speaker 4: really take Russia as an example and go to other

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Speaker 4: countries that are under US sanctions or that are not

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Speaker 4: really on friendly terms with the US and say, hey,

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Speaker 4: this could really work. Why don't you consider using my

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Speaker 4: currency as well?

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Speaker 1: And can you explain how Russia using yuan would enable

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Speaker 1: it to get around US sanctions? How does that actually work?

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Speaker 4: Because now let's take oil exports for them. Russia is

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Speaker 4: not allowed to export oil to the US, it's not

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Speaker 4: allowed to export oil to the European Union, but it

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Speaker 4: is still permitted to export oil elsewhere. And still Russia

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Speaker 4: exports oil to China and India, let's say, if they

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Speaker 4: take their payments in the US dollars or in the euro.

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Speaker 4: It is very difficult for Russia to dispose of these

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Speaker 4: currencies because there are many restrictions on how or where

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Speaker 4: Russia could deposit its affects reserves, how Russia can use it,

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Speaker 4: and what kind of products Russia can buy. But if

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Speaker 4: in Russian entity still holds US dollars and euros and

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Speaker 4: still make transactions in US dollars and euros, it is

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Speaker 4: subject to a lot of restrictions. But if it holds

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Speaker 4: the Chinese UN. It is subject to practically no restrictions.

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Speaker 4: Of course, if you're holding the Chinese UN there are

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Speaker 4: certain goods that you cannot buy. It's it's difficult for

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Speaker 4: you to take the US and say, hey, I want

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Speaker 4: to buy a BMW or I want to buy some

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Speaker 4: US products. But they could buy a lot of stuff

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Speaker 4: that are produced by China, or buy countries that are

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Speaker 4: not part of the euro or the US dollar system.

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Speaker 4: Say they could buy Brazilian soy, they could buy Argentinian wheat.

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Speaker 4: And now most of these transactions were still done in

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Speaker 4: the US dollar euro. But if the RUN system becomes successful,

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Speaker 4: they could take the gun and go to South America

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Speaker 4: to buy a lot of food stuff. They could take

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Speaker 4: the gun to China to buy cars, to buy machinery,

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Speaker 4: to buy druns. For example, a lot of the civilian

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Speaker 4: news drones were exported by Chinese companies, so they could

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Speaker 4: in the sense, replace a lot of its merchandise needs

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Speaker 4: that are currently supplied by the US and by European countries.

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Speaker 1: After the break, Chinese currency slowly starts to work its way.

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Speaker 6: In Argentina will use the yuan for trade with China

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Speaker 6: and then stop. This month, the Chinese National Oil Company

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Speaker 6: completing its first LNG trade with France's Hotel Energy using

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Speaker 6: the Chinese yuan. Saudi Arabia is in discussions with China

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Speaker 6: to price some of its oil sales in Yon.

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Speaker 1: George, you mentioned Brazil as one country that's starting to

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Speaker 1: question why everything is done in dollars in euros and

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Speaker 1: are looking at Chinese currency as an alternative. What are

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Speaker 1: some other countries that are doing the same.

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Speaker 4: Argentina, for instance, Argentina has a effect swap line with China,

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Speaker 4: which means the Argentine Central Bank could access the Chinese

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Speaker 4: yuan if it needs. There's a quota on it, but

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Speaker 4: they could access a few billions of dollars worth of

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Speaker 4: the Chinese uit and they are recently tapping that swap

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Speaker 4: line Brazil, as we mentioned, and back in March, China

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Speaker 4: and Saudi Arabia signed the deal in which a Chinese

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Speaker 4: state bank lent money to Saudi Arabia in Chinese rooming

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Speaker 4: bee terms. They're increasingly more Western companies also using Chinese

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Speaker 4: run as a settlement currency. In March, the French energy

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Speaker 4: company Total Energy, they signed the deal with Chinese National

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Speaker 4: Offshore Oil Corporation to settle a natural gas trade in

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Speaker 4: the Chinese Rooming Bee and over the past couple of

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Speaker 4: years Australian miners, including BHP, including real Tinto that have

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Speaker 4: signed contracts with various Chinese state companies to settle iron

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Speaker 4: ore trades in the Chinese run. I think it's really

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Speaker 4: symbolic in terms of China really pushing to have these

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Speaker 4: transactions with companies based in developed countries, let's say a

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Speaker 4: French company or BHP in Australia. There's still a lot

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Speaker 4: of hurdles for China to try to make you a

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Speaker 4: sort of the default currents see you, or try to

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Speaker 4: make you a major part of the transaction, because now

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Speaker 4: if you're doing business with Friends or Australia, probably ninety

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Speaker 4: nine percent of the transactions wouldn't be settled in the

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Speaker 4: Chinese run. But at the same time, China is a

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Speaker 4: major customer. China is one of the biggest buyers of

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Speaker 4: natural gas, of oil, of iron ores, so it does

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Speaker 4: have some leverage. I think now people realize it is

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Speaker 4: a major policy imperative from high up that China wants

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Speaker 4: to get the remain me to play a bigger role

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Speaker 4: in terms of trade, in terms of settlements, especially in

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Speaker 4: commodities trades. So Chinese state companies, which are the major

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Speaker 4: buyers of these commodities, would really make the push to say,

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Speaker 4: if I do business with you, I want a certain

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Speaker 4: percentage of the deals settled in the Chinese run, whether

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Speaker 4: you're a French company, an Australian company, or a Brazilian company.

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Speaker 4: And I think these companies, the sellers, do have an

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Speaker 4: incentive to satisfy the demands of the buyers in a sense,

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Speaker 4: to satisfy the demands of your client. So China could

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Speaker 4: really make the push to have a certain amount let's

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Speaker 4: say one percent or two percent of the total trade

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Speaker 4: volume settled in un But once you want to push further,

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Speaker 4: once you want to do let's say five percent or

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Speaker 4: ten percent. And these companies with the Chinese U and

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Speaker 4: they still have limited access to Chinese markets, to Chinese starts,

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Speaker 4: to Chinese bonds, so they might need to make reforms,

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Speaker 4: make further reforms in their markets so that for companies

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Speaker 4: having tens of billions of dollars worth of yourn, they

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Speaker 4: need to find somewhere to invest in. China need to

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Speaker 4: make its markets attractive to these investments.

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Speaker 1: If other developed countries start seeing more of these deals

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Speaker 1: taking place. Do you think that will lead to an

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Speaker 1: increase in the willingness of other companies other countries to

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Speaker 1: take a look at this currency, even though it's not

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Speaker 1: fully convertible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think absolutely other companies and other countries would

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Speaker 4: absolutely be looking at this and they would be thinking

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Speaker 4: about this as an alternative, because if things go right,

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Speaker 4: Chinese yuan has the potential to become the third widely

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Speaker 4: used currency in terms of global trade and global finance.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's going to happen? Do you think

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Speaker 1: that China's currency will become the third major currency in

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Speaker 1: the world at some point?

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Speaker 4: I think if they play the cards right, if they

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Speaker 4: proceed with the same sense of urgency, if they and

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Speaker 4: at the same time they really need to continue to

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Speaker 4: make reform to their financial market, to their financial system

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Speaker 4: over the next five to ten years, it's quite possible

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Speaker 4: for the Chinese you and to become the third most

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Speaker 4: used currency in global trade and global finance, exceeding all

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Speaker 4: the other non dollar, non euro currencies that we're talking about,

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Speaker 4: Canading dollar, Japanese and British pound. The bar for them

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Speaker 4: to get close to or even replace the dollar euro

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Speaker 4: it is extremely high. And also we need to consider

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Speaker 4: the scenario because now the US and Europe isn't really

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Speaker 4: pushing back on any kind of the un settlement projects

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Speaker 4: or un settlement deals. So now the Chinese un is

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Speaker 4: roughly somewhere between one percent and two percent of global

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Speaker 4: trade and global finance global settlements. So once we reach

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Speaker 4: a level of five percent or even ten percent, there

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Speaker 4: is going to be I'm pretty sure there is going

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Speaker 4: to be a strong response from US and Europe saying

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Speaker 4: that we've got to stop this, because this is really

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Speaker 4: threatening the role of the dollar into a less serch

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Speaker 4: than euro in terms of the global financial ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: George, thanks so much for coming on the show Central West.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, how China's currency push fits into

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Speaker 1: the nation's larger global ambitions. What we're talking about today

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Speaker 1: is part of a larger effort by Xi Jinping to

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Speaker 1: increase China's stature in global affairs and of course his

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Speaker 1: own as well. Bloomberg reporter Rebecca Chung Wilkins is back

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Speaker 1: with us again today to tell us all about that. Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: China has become more ambitious on the world stage. We

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Speaker 1: see Xi Jinping taking a bigger stance on international affairs,

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Speaker 1: and now we see this move to make China's currency

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Speaker 1: sort of a bigger player in international deals. How are

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Speaker 1: those two things tied together?

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Speaker 3: For China, the internationalization of its currency has always been

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Speaker 3: a critical part of kind of establishing it on the

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Speaker 3: world stage and crucially establishing an alternative to the US.

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Speaker 3: And of course we know the dollar has this extraordinary

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Speaker 3: and unique dominance when it comes to the global currency

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Speaker 3: and what currency folks use. But over the last decade

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Speaker 3: we've seen Beijing trying to make that push, and particularly

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Speaker 3: for example, when we look at trade deals, policy makers

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Speaker 3: in China often trying to incorporate or include some element

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Speaker 3: of trade settlements in the UN as part of those deals.

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Speaker 3: There's been some some momentum already. However, it really is

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Speaker 3: Russia's war in Ukraine and that sweeping set of sanctions

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Speaker 3: that has seen the acceleration of Yun's use and actually

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Speaker 3: has done far more than any policy maker in Beijing

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Speaker 3: has ever been able to do to make it more

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Speaker 3: commonly used in the world.

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Speaker 1: Which countries in particular have begun to take it. Advantage

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Speaker 1: of this new arrangement, especially when the dollar now has

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Speaker 1: become off limits to certain countries because of sanctions.

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Speaker 3: Well, if we think sort of purely in geopolitical terms,

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Speaker 3: countries as their position somewhere between an allegiance or a

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Speaker 3: leaning towards the US versus China, and what we tend

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Speaker 3: to see is countries that may have an inclination towards leading,

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Speaker 3: either as full formal partners of China or perhaps just

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Speaker 3: more inclined, they tend to be much more interested. So,

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Speaker 3: for example, we've seen recent deals by Middle Eastern countries.

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Speaker 3: We tend to see more attention and more enthusiasm for

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Speaker 3: these types of countries, countries that we may see also

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Speaker 3: that China has made much more an effort to engage

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Speaker 3: with typically countries sometimes called the Global South.

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Speaker 2: What's surprising though, is increasingly.

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Speaker 3: As the UN has become more popular, we have seen

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Speaker 3: even for example, France one of its companies, choosing to

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Speaker 3: settle a trade deal in the UN as well.

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Speaker 1: What do you foresee? How long do you think before

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Speaker 1: yon winds up becoming a significant currency that competes with

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Speaker 1: the dollar, that competes with the euro for transactions all

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Speaker 1: over the place.

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Speaker 3: I've asked a lot of traders what they think about this,

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Speaker 3: and the answer I always care is it depends, and

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Speaker 3: I get answers that go anywhere between ten years and

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Speaker 3: one hundred or two hundred years. And I think the

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Speaker 3: factor that really affects that is geopolitical, whether there we

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Speaker 3: see this urgent need to create an alternative, and when

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Speaker 3: we look at, for example, how important Russia's were in

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Speaker 3: Ukraine has been to kind of pushing momentum for the

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Speaker 3: use of the UN, you can see these type of

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Speaker 3: events can be critical in changing that balance. The percentage

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Speaker 3: is very, very small so far, but if you have

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Speaker 3: these sort of big geopolitical events, they can totally change

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Speaker 3: the balance, and relatively quickly. We're talking about a year

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Speaker 3: essentially of sanctions.

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Speaker 2: The one big.

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Speaker 3: Question, of course, is whether and how far the economic

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Speaker 3: state craft agenda goes when it comes to the US

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Speaker 3: and its allies. How far are the US and allies

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Speaker 3: going to go when it comes to containing China as

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Speaker 3: it would call it, and trying to curb China's influence.

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Speaker 2: In the world.

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Speaker 3: The more it does so, the more incentive there is

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Speaker 3: for China into particular to really drive home that agenda,

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Speaker 3: and of course all the countries around it that want

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Speaker 3: to continue doing trade with it. I think the way

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Speaker 3: China sees it is not necessarily a bipolar system, but

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Speaker 3: a multipolar system where countries have much more autonomy and essentially,

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Speaker 3: as they see it, are not under the thumb of

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Speaker 3: the US. So there is this alternative to pit and

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Speaker 3: there's a real alternative to pick. Of course, that point,

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Speaker 3: king dollar does still dominate. You don't really have a

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Speaker 3: choice that you have to basically engage in US dollars

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Speaker 3: if you want it to participate in the kind of

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Speaker 3: global financial system. It's really that shift in balance that

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Speaker 3: they want, not necessarily ultimately to be picking between one

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Speaker 3: and the other. And I would imagine also there is

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Speaker 3: some element in which ultimately there would be a desire.

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Speaker 2: For this to be more neutral.

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Speaker 3: You know, these sort of issues now have become politicized

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Speaker 3: in a way that they haven't been in the past,

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Speaker 3: and I suppose ultimately there perhaps would be this desire

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Speaker 3: for Chinese policymakers for the use of the UN to

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Speaker 3: not be seen in fact as a way of a

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Speaker 3: mechanism of picking sides, but simply as a mechanism is

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Speaker 3: simply of doing business in a world, a world in

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Speaker 3: which China is much more powerful.

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Speaker 1: I suppose. In order for that to happen, it would

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Speaker 1: require the US, it would require EU countries to accept

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Speaker 1: you on as another currency. It couldn't just go one way,

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Speaker 1: and we haven't seen much evidence of that happening.

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Speaker 3: No, And that again speaks to the sort of very

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Speaker 3: small percentage of use by the UN so far internationally.

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Speaker 3: Although we have seen these sort of sporadic deals mentioned

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Speaker 3: for example, French deal, it's still very very small. Given

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Speaker 3: the kind of context of US China relations, We're a

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Speaker 3: ways away before seeing anything like that from the US,

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Speaker 3: but even some of its allies and its partners have

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Speaker 3: been relatively slow to engage in this too.

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Speaker 1: What would the economic effects for the US, for the

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Speaker 1: EUB if the yuon started to encroach on the dollar's

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Speaker 1: dominance and even the dominance of the euro.

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Speaker 3: It's a really hard question to answer, I think, because

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Speaker 3: so much of that would depend on the pace and

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Speaker 3: the scale and the reason why we saw that coming

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Speaker 3: in if it was introduced in the context of some

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Speaker 3: kind of sanctions, for example, being leveraged on China, and

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Speaker 3: this really urgent desire to push an alternative that actually

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Speaker 3: can function very quickly at the scale that China would

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Speaker 3: need it to that of course, would be much more

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Speaker 3: challenging to the US. But if we're talking about something

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Speaker 3: that's a much more gradual process and that's accompanied by

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Speaker 3: some kind of raprochement in kind of geoplisical tension, too,

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Speaker 3: we wouldn't necessarily see that happening. And in fact, some

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Speaker 3: element of diversification, some element that kind of reduces the

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Speaker 3: reliance on the dollar, also is potentially good for other

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Speaker 3: developing nations.

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Speaker 2: You know. The whole point.

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Speaker 3: About having diversity is essentially not to be so vulnerable

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Speaker 3: when the dollar moves and so on, and so there

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Speaker 3: is also an argument to be made that of somewhat

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Speaker 3: more diverse global settlement currency could actually help create a

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Speaker 3: bit more stability in some of those emerging markets too.

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Speaker 1: So, Rebecca, this is obviously something that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are just keeping an eye on to see how

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Speaker 1: it unfolds. As somebody who's covering in this what are

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Speaker 1: you watching for.

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Speaker 3: I'm really watching to see whether the US or some

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Speaker 3: of its closer allies start to be a little bit uncomfortable,

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Speaker 3: start to feel like this is getting a little too

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Speaker 3: close for comfort. Too many deals are being done. We

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Speaker 3: don't really want to allow this happening at a moment

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Speaker 3: when tensions between China and the US are so taught.

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Speaker 3: So when you think about the G seven nations who

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Speaker 3: recently met versus China and Russia and these alternative too

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Speaker 3: world orders, we do see this sort of polarization. We

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Speaker 3: do this see this divergence, and that inherently does mean

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Speaker 3: that what currency you choose is a political decision because.

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Speaker 2: Of the world that we're in now.

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Speaker 3: So I'm personally interested to see whether we see more

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Speaker 3: of this dialogue enter into geopolitical discussions.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for having me, Thanks for listening to

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Speaker 1: us here at The Big Take. It's a daily podcast

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Speaker 1: from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows from iHeartRadio, visit

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, and

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00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you emails, questions, or comments

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Speaker 1: to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer

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Speaker 1: of The Big Take is Vicky Bergerlan. Our senior producer

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Speaker 1: is Catherine Fink. Federica Romanello is our producer. Our associate

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Speaker 1: producer is Zenebsidiki. Raphael mcili is our engineer. Our original

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Speaker 1: music was composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kasova. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back tomorrow with another big take.