WEBVTT - STEPHEN A. SMITH JOINS ALL THE SMOKE 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.879 Welcome back all the Smoke, episode eight. Man, I got 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.800 a super special guests. Man, I don't get excited for 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.120 too much ship. Y'all know that the honorable. But this 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:23.520 dude right here, man welcome, oh, Man, appreciate, Man, thank you, appreciate. 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:25.480 You have to be here for y'all. You know that. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.120 I do have a question. Can I start off with 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:32.199 an interview? Why I'm on the couch with you but 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:34.640 he's sitting in the King's seat like, I mean, well, 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:36.960 you know what I'm just wondering. I mean, I'm gonna 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.599 explain to you, and I'm explaining to okay, because you know, 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.480 both of us are great team players, right We're both 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.560 playing our role. I play a great role of feeding 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:48.800 off him, and that's the better seat as far as 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.160 the production and all that. So he belongs that belong, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:59.280 I belong, true, calm and mellow, all that stuff is 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:06.080 different differently. That's but let's get to it. Man. Tell us, 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.040 I mean I compare you to an athlete from a standpoint, 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.280 if you're recognized everywhere you go. We know all the basics, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.840 but tell us who Stephen A. Smith is from your 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.839 upbringing right here in New York Native of Hollance, Queens. 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:23.959 Born in the Bronx, raised in Queens. Um I raised 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.279 by the greatest mom in the world. God rested social 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.080 passed where a couple of years ago. Back to the 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.399 long battle with cancer. She's married to my dad for 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:37.080 sixty sixty one years. Um, that's her old school, old school, 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.280 you know he you know, he and I had our 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.840 differences because you know, he could have treated a better, 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.559 but he's still my dad and I loved him. Um. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:47.640 But because of that, I was extra tight with her. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.279 And I was the youngest of six, had an older brother. 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.880 He died in a car accident to Waco, Texas in nine. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.400 Was like in this van there was a salesman traveling 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.960 salesman and it was fifth team people in one of 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.280 those sales man and the driver was messing with the 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.079 radio and stuff like that, and um, it flipped over 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:13.480 numerous times. And he was the only one that died. Right. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:18.560 He was right my years and I was. My brother 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.280 was twenty five when he died and I was sixteen. Yeah, 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.200 and I know that affected my life. So I'm here 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.760 you talk about it now, and it was it was 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.600 crazy altering because first of all, you start questioning a 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:33.280 lot of things. It's like you're growing up and this 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.600 is your big brother who supported you. I got left 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.360 back in the fourth grade because I got the first 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:41.120 grade reading level. I remember cats in the neighborhood laughing 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.359 at me, laughing like I was a dummy, I was 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.640 an idiot or whatever. And the reason why I bring 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.400 that up is because if there's ever anything that inspired 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.480 me that made me hungry, it was making sure that 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.040 that laughter would never arrive again. So the reason why 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.840 it's relatable to this conversation talking to y'all, who I've 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.200 been interviewing for years as NBA is is that I've 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.360 always been no nonsense, but I've always been straight. You know, 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.440 you see me coming. If I got an issue with you, 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.239 I'm gonna let you know. If I got something I 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.160 gotta report, you ain't gonna like I'm gonna tell you. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.760 You know, all of that other stuff, All of that 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.600 stuff comes from, believe it or not, that because when 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.120 people were laughing, they weren't just laughing in front of 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.160 your face. They were laughing behind your back. They were 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.400 ridiculing you. They were minimizing you, were diminishing you. And 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.400 then somehow, some way, they would come in your face 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.560 and they would smile and didn't act like they were 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.400 supportive of you, and they weren't. So I was always 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.840 a kind of person growing up knowing that my mother 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.040 was straight with me. But sometimes you have relatives that 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.240 weren't straight for you, friends that weren't straight with you. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.920 I always proude of myself and being a person that 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.000 would be straight, that would be fear. You see me coming. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.360 You might not like it, but I will always hit 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.600 you here, will meet you in the back, and would 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.560 be it'll be right here. And so that same approach 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.360 is what I took with me wherever I went. And 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.200 so I went to school, and I was stupidly telling 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.000 my mother I didn't want to go to college, so 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.680 she made me go to a trade school, Thomas Edison 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:05.880 Vocation On Technical Height School right here in Queens, where 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.080 I learned electrical installation. But then they discovered I could 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:10.880 play some ball. I wanted as good as y'all, but 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.240 I could ball, I could shoot, and I had heart, 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.200 And so I got a scholarship to Winston Salem State. 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.240 But it was after I did junior college at f 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:23.800 I T, which was fashions to the technology laugh at 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.520 me about it. But I had two things going for us, right, Oh, no, 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:33.400 no doubt. I had two advantages. Number one, we were 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.200 thirty five and fours the junior college ranged fifteenth in 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:41.000 the nation. And number two, it was primarily a girls 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.560 school and the other dudes were homosexuals. That's dead business, 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.560 don't get me right. But what I'm saying, those who 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:53.320 were not left it all to us. So college was 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.120 beautiful to me. That was before I went down to 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.080 Winston Salem and playing for big house games. And when 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.239 I tried out for him and one of the guys 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.560 that used to play at the University at Winston Salem, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.000 his name was Harold Funny Kid, played in the seventies. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.880 Brought me down there for a tryout and coach put 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.040 me on the squad against the starters, and I hit 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:16.000 seventeen straight three pointers, sign me the scholarship on the spot, 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.160 you know. But my first year, they had cracked my 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.760 knee cap in half. When I cracked my knee cap 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:22.000 and half, first of all, I was I was down 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.960 there at a hundred pounds. I was a little pleased, 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.320 So that's bad enough then, But then I cracked my 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.000 knee cap in half. It was a D two school, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.919 so they didn't have the facilities like the big schools 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.360 had to help you rehabilitate, had to come home for 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.720 rehabbing all of that other stuff. And my mother said, well, 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.359 what you're gonna do? And sure enough, I could write, 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.159 I could report, um, I could do all of those 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.320 different things. And a critical and persuasive writing teachers saw 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.040 me and said, you're a born sportswriter. Let me take 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:50.920 you out to lunch next week and talk about it. 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.720 And I didn't know, but he took me out to lunch. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.680 It was with the sports editor for the Winston Salem Journal. 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.880 He took me to his office. The man met me, 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.240 hid me with than five minutes to start off as 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.200 a clerk and everything. And then I just went from 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.400 doing that to being a beat writer for Wake for 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.760 our soccer to ultimately doing internships in Winter Salem, Greensboro, 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.920 Atlanta before getting my first job at the New York 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.800 Daily News is a high school sports reporter. Stayed there 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:22.200 for fourteen months. Philadelphia Inquiry came calling. I did, went there, 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:27.360 got promoted like nine times, covered eight every days of 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:33.280 his career, the whole bit. And that's basically, it's basically, well, 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.400 tell me tell me about in the eighties, growing up 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:36.960 with the basketball in the eighties out here in New York. 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.040 To man, listen, let me tell you something. Well, first 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.599 of all, see to me, I grew up idolizing Dwayne 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.080 Pearl Washington. Gress Pearl was something spect to me. He 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.240 was the greatest college ball player I I've ever seen 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.840 Michael Jordan, and everybody was like they was. Don't get 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.599 me wrong, they want another level eventually, but on the 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.719 collegiate level. At that time, when this brother rode in 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.520 the severe cues, I'm telling you right now, I remember 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.440 one of the most memorable moments watching Dwayne Pearl Washington 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.360 was when he lost the Big East title to Mark 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.479 Jackson and st John Mark Jackson, Walter Berry, Willie Glass, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.920 all of those cats at the garden and it was 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.920 the last play they had. I think it was either 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.120 Jackson or Willy Glass. I think it was Mark Jackson. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.560 You're here the jump shot, and the next thing you know, 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.560 it's only a few seconds left, and Dwayne Pearl Washington 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.800 grabbed the ball and pushed it up the court and 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.480 literally danced through five dudes and then went in for 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.840 a layup and it missed, like back in the river. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.960 You could remember was that this kid's handle was so nasty. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.400 I remember Jeane Smith that Georgetown was considered this defensive eight, 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.160 and Pearl, you know, buckled him to his knees and 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.119 a whole bit. So I grew up in that eraor 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:49.360 watching Dwayne Pearl, Washington, watching Kenny Anderson, Ross Mark Jackson 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.760 obviously in the whole bit. So that was the error 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.480 that I grew up in and and playing ball at 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.760 that time, just traveling in the streets and everything like that. 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:58.760 You have to have hard, you have to have hard. 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:00.520 And you was going up against cat from all over 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.000 the country. Well they had hard. To New York thought 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.800 it was it, but then you what you really got 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.400 assist a New York City Cats catball one on one, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:15.200 but that actual team concept. All the places managers other 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.600 places had avengager because in New York it was the hardware. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.880 It was Rutgers Park. You could go to Stating. Now 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:21.520 you can go to Brooklyn, you can go right here 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.880 on west Ford Street, Rutgers Hall and one and Lennox. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.880 You had all of those places, and you had Katch 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.320 who could dance and be one on one. But part 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.640 of our problem as New York basketball players was disciplined, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.480 you know, playing within a team structure, not taking over, 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.200 taking control, believing that you were it. The dudes that 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:45.840 got that were the successful ones, the Kenny Anderson's, the 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.400 Stephen at one point, stuff like that. I always knew 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.960 Marvin is gonna better than Phelippe Lopez. I wasn't caught 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:57.600 up in that he was he was the man. He 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.120 was the man because he went to Rice and I 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:00.839 was a high school It's right for the New York 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.000 Daily News at the time, and I was the first 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.839 one that wrote the article, y'all keep talking about this 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.480 cat Philippe. Is this dude here, step on Marlbury. That's 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.839 going to be specially because when I looked at Phelipe, 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:17.280 I pay attention stuff, nice sleek frame. The friended defendant 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.760 was fundamentally sound, but did not have a reliable jump 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.800 shot at all. And I said, that is not Marbury's problem. 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.440 Marbury could get to the whole at will. He could 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.400 pull up from ft, he got a handle, he could pass. 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.520 He was a pure point guard and didn't mind ripping 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:38.160 you apart while playing a teen game. So I always 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:40.880 knew he was going to be better, but it was 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.640 cats like Karee Read that played and ultimately went to ice. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.800 He's are the guys that I go watch God Sham 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.120 God wells. It was all world with the handle, but 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.520 the jump shot was suspect. If God Sham God had 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.599 a jump shot, I'm telling you right now, would have 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.560 been and you and they couldn't Gard and even the 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.000 closest thing to Pearl in terms of his handle, in 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:06.280 terms of his hand and what he could do with 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.439 his boy handles skill, but he couldn't finished from the perimeter. 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.760 Shad one of my twins, we were in au turnament 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.120 one time when they were ten years old, and he 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.960 pulled the Sham God and I blew my mind and 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.240 it worked and he hid it and passed my other twin. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.000 He hit at corner three and I asked, it was like, 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:22.839 you know what, when you know what that move is called, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.000 who made that move up? I just seen CP three 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.760 do it, Dad, like they don't understand where it comes from. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.680 And that kind of and that kind of takes me 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.960 back to you seen from the legends in New York 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.440 to the early eighties of the NBA. The nineties two 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.640 thousand to what the game is today? Walk us through 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.800 that transition of style of play and what you think 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.000 about it from now to then. Well, I think that. 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:50.000 Listen in the eighties again, because I was playing, and 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.880 I was young, and I wasn't a journalist. All you 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.880 saw is where you were at. So you in New York, 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.240 you saw New York, but we new York is so 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.360 we think we know, we think we know, but we 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.640 don't really know, because unless you're traveling, you really really 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.760 don't know. And again, that individuality came to it. You 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.880 saw more of a team concept in the nineties because 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:17.280 remember from a from a collective standpoint, team orient at 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.760 the standpoint where you think basketball in the eighties, you 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:24.200 thought joya paranoia, You thought John Thompson, you ain't Michael Graham, 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.880 Michael you know, Michael Jackson. Point guard Reggie Williams was nasty. 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.800 He could play all of those cats, right, So you 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.520 had that, But their signature was defense. They could shut 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.320 you down and literally rip your heart out of your chest. 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.960 They're scared to live in hell out of you. That's right. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.560 Then you go Villanova with the four corners at Pickney, 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.800 McClean and those boys that might have disrupted them that 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:45.720 one thing. They held the damn ball for the whole 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.360 damn Final National Championship game. But it was what it was, okay. 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.120 And then of course you saw Syracuse St. John's, all 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.000 of those cats coming uh with Kenny Anderson, remember Leaf, 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.280 the Weapon three Georgia tech n Oliver Dennis got three days, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.320 the whole crew. You saw all of that. So that 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.240 was going into the nineties. Even though you saw individuality, 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.040 what to me really took it to another level was 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.600 talk in U N l V. Greg Anthony, Stacy Algman, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.719 Larry Johnson and the crew. You saw these guys right, 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.080 They defended and they played together. And even though I'm 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.200 not sure people really think about it the way that 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.200 I do, I give Larry Johnson a whole lot of 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.800 credit because he was miniature in height, but he was massive, big, strong, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.480 and he was a man amongst boys in the low post. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.880 But he was the ultimate team player. He didn't care 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.160 he could score and would give you his twenty on 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.839 any given night. But other nights where other Cats were 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.920 doing their thing, he was absolutely fine. Greg Anthony took 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.560 pride in defending you ninety four feet and putting you 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:49.320 on lockdown, Anderson Hunt could shoot from three Stacy Agman 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.920 would dunk on their face one minute and then block 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.760 your shot and du up another. So when you had 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.000 all of this going on, okay, Dan, remember they were 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.800 the rebels we called George Town, the rebel you know, 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:06.160 rebellious rebels. Oh, the running rebels, I'm saying. So you 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.920 see all of that happening, and you see them go 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:14.359 against Duke and annihilate them by thirty for the national championship. 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.720 The next year comes out, they got Grand Hill less time. 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.080 They faced you n l v in the semifinal and 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.520 they take you and l v our very very close game, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.880 but they took him out. And that's where Hurly and 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.480 Christian Layton and those boys ascended. When you saw that, 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.200 you start, I believe that was the transition to a 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.520 more team concept. Only from this perspective, you saw a 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.400 white cats because obviously Larry Bird, let you know, white 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.720 boys can play, to make no mistake about it. You 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.199 saw that and you had the respect. But in the 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.840 same breath that was as an individual. Collectively, you didn't 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.160 think a collection of them was going to take you out, right, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.800 even though we all know who no basketball, you don't 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.160 win beat that un l VT without Grand Hill. We 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.680 couldn't take away from the heart that Hurly and late 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.000 in the show and going up against so you saw cats. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.640 And even though again the game was individualized to a 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.040 strong degree because of the eighties and because of the 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.640 ascension of Michael Jordan's you know, because you remember you 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.000 had Magic and burd going at and even though they 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.520 were the marquee dudes that were being advertised, they played 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.000 for elite teams, so there was a team concept. It 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.880 was Jordan at individualized stuff in our eyes, and so 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.560 we got caught up in the Jordan and Jordan and Jordan's. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.080 Then it was a ninety two that we got reminded 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.800 of Hurly late in a team And so now you 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.560 started really really thinking about basketball the way it should 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.000 have been thought about all along. You started looking at 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.840 individual talent, but how they pissed with the team. And 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.600 then you get into the finances because you didn't have 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.920 a rookie salary capitals, the rookie wage scale. You got 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.480 big dog coming out of Burd due he saw for 0:14:54.480 --> 0:15:01.800 sixty nine. He wanted he got sixty Yeah, I think, 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.800 so what what what What happened is it was Big 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.480 Dog number one. Then you had Grant Hill and Jason 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.800 Kidd both getting pretty much the same amount of dollars. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.280 Right then you had um See Webb coming out. But 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.640 the same time as Penny Hardaway. All right, that rookie 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.440 wage scale again wasn't in full effect at that particular 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.720 moment in time, so you were still able to look 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.400 at things from a team concept, but in the same 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.760 breath you started paying attention to the individuals. You couldn't 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.120 help it because of the money individuals were getting paid. 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.000 But again, even though Big Dog was a scoring machine, 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.760 these guys were relatively unselfish. Him, especially Grant Hill and 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.160 Jason Kidd, didn't care if he scored at all. He 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.440 would be happy giving you fifteen twenty a sinst the 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.160 night if he could. So when you saw that, it 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:52.240 heightened the level of team concept having that mentality, and 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.440 to me, it really really changed the way things happened, 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.320 because when you saw these cats getting that money as 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.680 number one, number two, number three, oh pick. On one hand, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.520 you wanted the money as an individual, but the people 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.920 that were bringing you on board insisting that you fit 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.080 into a team. What happened is. It's sort of changed 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.480 your mindset because we you had cats like yourself and others, 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.520 not literally y'all at the time, but figuratively speaking, guys 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.240 like y'all looking at the game from a business perspective. Okay, 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.800 why should I make this sacrifice? What's in it for me? 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.600 This cat getting paid but the rest of us ain't 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.520 and sot. At that point, now you start looking at 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.400 the business and being reminded what made Magic money, what 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:38.240 made Bird money, what made Jordan money, ultimately what was 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.960 going to make you all money, and you start looking 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.960 at it in their game really really transformed from a 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:48.600 business mindset, because I think more business minded players came 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.440 into the league at that time than ever before around 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.760 our time, and and we are I do fit in 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.680 that category because especially after I win the championship and 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.760 the Spurs, I started looking at teams where I fit 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.560 into the system, right, can I can have some longevity there? 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:03.880 And and and and the game that did transcended that 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.479 because that was a big part of us, and we 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.560 were free agents. We had to find out where we fit. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.840 We just couldn't go anywhere right now. It's definitely people 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.080 don't understand how important I mean, if we're getting into 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.560 this area that being drafted in a certain organization or 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.720 situation fits, and you had that when someone asked a 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.600 fan asked the question, if KG was drafted to the 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.119 Spurs and him Tim Duncan switch spots, who is the 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.280 greatest power forward of all time? And do they have 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.560 the same success with KG and Pop? For me, personally, 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.119 I'm able to look being a student of basketball the 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.560 way that I am, I'm able to look at things 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.760 in a different light. Like, for example, KG was special, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:45.440 but his frame and the style of play he preferred, 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.080 I don't think that would have been more successful in 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.880 San Antonio that Tim Duncan was. I don't believe that 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.040 Tim Duncan, to me is is the greatest powerful who 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:58.520 ever played basketball. That's how I view it. That's how 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.639 I view it. Now. Why do I say that? Because 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.399 for me, from a principal perspective, the word power forward matters. 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.159 You're a fool, even though you can have an outside 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.480 game and step away from the basket like KG did, 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.040 like Chris Bosh ultimately did, like Blake Griffith still tries 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.480 to do the fact that the matter is is that 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.760 excuse me? I got news for both of y'all, and 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.399 I challenge anybody to deny this is true. Take away, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.240 Tim Duncan, who's the best powerful that ever lived? You 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:32.240 know who? I would say, Kevin Michael Money in the 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:39.119 post ten and in Unstoppable and under Unstoppable, it was 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.520 an automatic two points. What I'm saying to you is 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.760 that if you are a quote unquote powerful it I'm 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.640 not talking about the hybrid game that they've asserted into 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.320 the mix head where they've changed the positions, they've renamed it, 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.000 and they want to tell you this is what I 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.359 want to hear. All that when you talk about the 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.320 position point guard, shoot guard, small forward, powerful, its center, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.199 all the forward spot. Tim Duncan hated correct me if 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.280 I'm wrong, Hate it when you put him at the five, 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.480 hate it being listed at the wanted no parts of it. 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.080 He knew what he was and when you gave that 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.479 brother the ball, it didn't matter what he was facing 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.880 the basket or whether his back was to the basket. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.879 You put that brother seventeen feet and end. It was 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.919 a nightmare decision. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.040 So for me when I look at KG, when I 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.879 look at KG, as being an elite talent who happened 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.399 to play power forward that had perimeter skills, but he 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.840 wasn't no prototypical, quick, essential power forward the way that 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:42.120 Tim Duncan was, even when KG had his back to you, 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.640 he was still looking for the turnaround jump shot. Tim 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.800 Duncan might dunket on you, he might they go up, 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.240 he might cross you, he might hook you, he might 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.680 shoot it turn around the bank shot. It was an 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.800 arsenal the likes of which we haven't seen. And that's 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:01.960 how I look at Tim Duncan, and that's why I 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.360 would say he is the greatest power forward that I've 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.240 ever seen, along with ten rebounds and eight blocks. Like, 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.439 let's go back to um kind of when you started 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.159 your professional career, tell us what, tell us what that 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.440 was like? Because you know, people always, like I said, 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.880 I kind of compared you to an athlete from a standpoint. 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:22.959 They see the finished product, they see you on ESPN 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.480 and all the success you're having now, but your journey 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:29.720 was anything but the journey. Well listen, man, people where 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.680 they've written these articles about me. I lived off with 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:39.240 tune efficient kool aid stop. I'm from New York City. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.639 I'm from the streets of Hollis Queens, New York City, 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:45.080 and I was working in Archdale, North Carolina for the 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.320 Greensboro News and Record. I started off as an editorial 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:53.960 assistant doing aggon material and school lunch man like in 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.480 in in a sports department for a newspaper. All of 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.240 these little things that you see where this shows you 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.760 a sheet with the scores and everything. The computer from 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.919